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A faith-forward podcast for people who love Jesus but also love being honest about how weird and wonderful life can be. Hosts Kerrye and Jill tell stories about the Bible, talk about their faith, and dig into what it looks like to follow God through the ordinary chaos of everyday, imperfect life. Real conversations. Real stories. No pretending to have it all together. Pull up a chair, turn the page, and let's go.
Welcome to Chapter and Verse, where people
come on and tell their real stories,
faith, failure, redemption, and the
occasional, "Lord, what are you doing?"
moment.
Some inspiring, some messy,
and some that probably should
have come with a warning label.
Because through every chapter of
every story, God is still writing.
And He's not afraid of a little chaos.
This is Jill.
And Carrie.
Let's turn the page.
Welcome to With Our Friends,
Craig and Tiffany Kilburn.
We're so happy to have y'all.
Um, why don't y'all just introduceâ¦
Like, well, I know who you are,
but, like, tell us something about
yourself before we get started.
I'm Craig Kilburn.
Um, just a pleasure to be here.
Um, it's just a pleasure toâ¦
Anytime I can, uh, talk about
God and what He has done for me-
We forgot the tissue We did
forget the tissue ⦠man.
In my life.
And he's gonna need it.
Um- Oh, man.
But, um, I'm just a born again Christian.
That's, that's me.
Um, just been through some, uh, some stuff
in my life that if it wasn't for Godâ¦
Where would you be?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's- So, um- I mean, that's very common
with all of us, like where would we be?
Absolutely.
I don't know how people do without Him.
I don't, I, it's, that's exactly
what I was fixing to say.
I don't know how people live-
I don't either ⦠without Him.
So, but, um- They don't
realize it, though.
No.
Yeah.
No.
And we take it, we take it for granted,
too, because I grew up in church, or- Yes.
Yeah ⦠we may not have always walked
the way we should have walked- Yeah.
But- Yeah.
That's was our background.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
You know, we knew what was
right and what was wrong.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we knew who we could turn to.
Yeah.
The people that don't have that,
I don't know how they do it.
I don't either.
Yeah.
I don't either.
Yeah.
Well, um, I know, how long
have y'all been married?
So that's a whole another, another topic.
But, um, we have been
together for 20 years.
Mm.
Wow, good, good.
Ups and downs.
If you can, and I will
say this honestly, um-
If you can go through the things
that Tiffany and I have been through
and be as strong in our faith
Ooh, like there's nothing, I, I'm,
I'm just saying there's nothing that
we haven't been through, and God has
Been faithful.
Yeah, he is.
Yeah.
And he'll hold your hand in-
Yeah ⦠all of the mess.
Doesn't matter the mess.
Yeah.
Oh, goodness.
If you can make it through the
stuff that we've- Oh, yeah ⦠been
through and still be together- Yes.
Mm-hmm ⦠and love each other-
Mm-hmm ⦠more- Mm-hmm ⦠now than
before- Yeah ⦠don't tell me that
you can't make it through something.
Yeah.
Right.
Well, love is a choice.
And don't tell me there's
not a God, because yeah.
It's a choice, yes.
Love is a choice.
Yeah.
And we learn that from God.
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely.
God chooses to love us.
Absolutely.
We don't deserve any of it.
Absolutely.
And it's a, it's a choice he makes.
Yeah, and it's grace.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Well, what chapter are we
gonna talk about today?
Well, we will- Recent ⦠let's, uh, we
will talk about- Recent ⦠um, September.
Okay.
Um- So this is September of 2025.
Yes.
Well, let's start in August.
Okay.
Well, go ahead.
Okay.
I'll, I'll let you talk for a little bit.
Okay.
So we were getting ready to go
on a, on our second cruise, and
we had booked another snorkeling
adventure, all the things.
Mm-hmm.
Craig has a very high pain tolerance.
He's had three total
shoulder replacements.
Oh, my gosh.
We're about to have to have-
Goodness ⦠the other side.
He finally tells me, "Hey,
it's about all I can take.
We need to go ahead and get- Mm-hmm
⦠with the surgeon to start the other side."
When it gets to that
point, you know it's bad.
Yeah.
So I was like, "Okay, great."
Made that appointment.
Um- He had been, had COVID
a year prior to that.
Mm-hmm.
And ever since then, on and off when
he'd be at the gym, it would be like he'd
have a, a little burning in his chest,
like have a little trouble breathing.
Mm-hmm.
Which was just odd for him
because he never got sick.
Yeah.
Did never have any issues.
He's worked out seven days a week-
Yeah ⦠for his whole life, ate
clean- Mm-hmm, yeah ⦠all the things.
He just kept having trouble breathing,
and he was like, "Man, I've gotta figure
out what's going on with my lungs."
So in August, he went to
Trina, which is our doctor.
Mm-hmm.
And had told her, she's like,
"Let me do a chest X-ray.
Can I see if something's going on?"
And did that.
They com- sent it off to the
radiologist in Little Rock.
They said, "Nope, everything looks good.
Everything's fine."
And she's like, "Okay," but she
puts him on an antibiotic and a
steroid just because she knows
that he's not one to- To complain.
Right.
Yeah.
Or to even go to the doctor.
I think that was during right,
right before the play, wasn't it?
When you first got COVID?
Yeah, that was, yeah, that was, yes.
That's, yeah.
Yes.
So this was August 14th-
Mm ⦠in when, when he went.
Okay.
And so they said everything's fine.
She puts him on that.
He got a little bit better,
but still having the issue.
So she asked how he was doing.
He saidâ¦
She's like, "Well, maybe I just need to
do, order a complete workup and see what
your lung function is and all the things."
He's like, "Okay."
But you have to get all the
insurance approval and all
that- Mm-hmm ⦠other stuff.
So then fast-forward to September,
so his birthday was on the 5th.
We
That was right before
or right at Labor Day.
The next Tuesday, Monday, the next
Monday, he walks into the living room
and he's like, "Man, my leg hurts."
Like, and he's rubbing
the inside of his leg.
And I said, "Well, you probably pulled
something doing legs on Saturday."
He's like, "No, it's
not like one of that."
And I'm like, "Yeah, okay."
And I just let it go because
I know how he works out.
Mm-hmm.
He doesn't complain.
All day long that I, when I'd talk to
him, he was saying his leg was hurting,
and I just kind of would blow him off.
Well, he gets home and he's limping
on it, and I'm like, "You okay?"
And he's like, "No, I'm
telling you, this hurts."
And I said, "Well, does
it have fever in it?"
He's like, "I don't know."
I said, "Well, let me look."
And I did, and I was like,
"Craig, that's a blood clot."
And he's like, "I don't get blood clots."
"I've had, I've had three surgeries
and-" Yeah ⦠multiple things."
He's like, "I don'tâ¦"
And I'm like, "No, I'm telling
you, that's a blood clot."
I was on the phone with Trina, and
he had went to the bedroom, and he
had been having trouble when he'd
go to lay down, like he felt he was
suffocating, like he couldn't breathe.
Mm-hmm.
And he had, and he was starting
to have panic attacks because it
literally- Oh, yeah ⦠he said
it was like he was suffocating.
Yeah.
I walk in the room and his face was
white, and he was having a panic attack
'cause it's like he couldn't breathe.
And I told her about his leg
and she said, "Take him to the
emergency room and have him-" Yeah.
So what did it feel like when youâ¦
What, is it just a ache?
It was like a, umâ¦
It was probably the size of a
quarter, and there were three
of them on the inside of my leg.
And they were hot to, to the touch, and
they were very painful to the touch.
They were like- Okay ⦠lumps-
Yes ⦠kind of?
Little- Okay ⦠small lumps.
Um- But yes, it hurt very, very bad.
So we went- We get over there, Dr.
Goodman was on call.
Mm-hmm.
And they do not have anybody
that can do ultrasounds at night.
Mm-hmm.
And so he said, "Well, we can do, draw
some blood and do, it's a D-dimer."
D-dimer, yep.
And if it's elevated, that's a good
sign there's a blood clot somewhere.
Yeah.
And he said, "So we'll
see what that says."
And in the meantime he said, "I'm
gonna go ahead and I wanna do another
chest X-ray," just to kinda see
where that is with his breathing.
Right.
So we do that and he said, "I'm gonna
go ahead and also order," he's ⦠The
D-dimer came back and it was elevated,
so he said- Yeah ⦠"I wanna do a CT on
your lungs just to see if- If anything
has moved- Right ⦠and is headed
there- He- ⦠or is hanging out there.
Yeah.
And so he does that, and he
comes back and he said, "You had
a chest X-ray in, last month."
And he's like, "Yeah."
And he goes, "D- they tell
you everything was okay?"
He said, "Yeah, they said
everything was normal."
He goes, "Well, I looked at today's and I
looked, pulled it back to see what all had
changed," and I'm like, "They're exactly
the same," and it's far from normal.
Yeah.
Wow.
He said, "You have an- Oh, man
extremely enlarged heart."
Mm-hmm.
Wow.
And we're like, "Oh."
And he said, "Now, good news, there's
no blood clots in your lungs."
Yeah.
He said, "So that's a plus."
Mm-hmm.
"But your BMP level for your fluid
is supposed to be around 250."
Mm-hmm.
His was almost 1300.
Oh, gosh.
And he said, "So you are suffocating."
Yeah.
So he's like, "We need
to get some of that off.
So there's a reason why your
lungs are filling up with fluid."
Mm-hmm.
And he's like, "Okay," he goes, "So
you need to see," he said, "we need
to get an echo and you need to have
an ultrasound done on your leg."
Yeah.
And we're like, "Okay."
So the next day, come back for
them to do that, and we're already
frustrated because they've missed it.
Right.
And he was extremely frustrated,
because that was a pretty big deal.
That is a huge deal.
Like, a whole month- Yeah ⦠that
you could- Yeah ⦠try to
figure out what's going on.
Yeah.
And so we go back the next day,
Trina orders it for that to be done.
Of course, that has to go back
to the same people that read it,
and I'm telling Craig, I'm like,
"I'm not comfortable with that."
Yeah, yeah.
Like, that's a big deal.
Yeah.
And they're like, "Yeah, well, they
said that wasn't blood clots or
anything," and it's like, and I'm
like, "I'm ⦠Yes, I know they were.
That wouldn't have been elevated."
Yeah.
And they didn't have the echo
back, and she's like, "Well, we're
gonna get you an appointment with a
cardiologist down there, but we have
to wait for insurance and all that."
Well-
But we went.
Mm-hmm.
We left, and we actually had
talked to Lori and Wendell.
Lori and Wendell.
Mm-hmm.
Because Wendell kinda had the same-
Mm-hmm ⦠little situation, and Lori
said, "I'm just telling you, take
him straight to the heart hospital."
Mm-hmm.
We kinda were told the same thing.
I was like, I wasn't comfortable.
I loaded Wendell up.
We went straight down there.
She's like, "That's
exactly what I would do.
I wouldn't take any chances.
I wouldn't wait.
I would just go."
So Craig's like, "If I'm not feeling
better in the morning, we will."
And I was like, "Okay."
It lasted about 45 minutes.
He had another panic attack.
Mm.
Yeah.
And he's like- Just let's go ⦠let's go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we did.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We get down there.
They check him in.
They started running some tests.
They figure out his lungs are,
already got more fluid on them.
They started pulling that
off, and he felt a ton better.
Like- Yeah ⦠just a ton.
So they were pulling it off
via, like, thoracentesis?
Right.
Where they, like, stick a- No, not that.
Okay.
They were just giving him
tons and tons of Lasix.
Oh, okay.
Like, two liters.
Two liters, yeah.
Okay.
Like, within- Wow ⦠20
minutes was coming off.
Okay.
Yeah.
He was ⦠So, but he felt better.
Yeah.
Well, I imagine so.
Yeah.
So, like, for him, he was
like, "Okay, I'm fine."
Yeah.
Because they asked him, "Have
you had chest pains or anything?"
And he's like, "No."
His blood pressure had always been good.
His cholesterol had always been good.
Like, he never had any
type of heart issues.
Yeah.
Nothing.
And they said, "Okay.
Well, your echo come back abnormal,"
and those were not the DVTs.
They weren't the deep ones.
Mm-hmm.
They were just the SVTs.
Okay.
Okay.
That's God's little way of kind
of saying- Getting us- ⦠hey,
this is- ⦠to the- Yeah.
Yeah.
I, I- Because w- I wouldn't have
let it go, or I probably would have
let it go had it not been for those.
Mm-hmm.
I am a firm believer that
God allows things to happen.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
To get your attention.
And- Yes ⦠and that got our
attention, to get us- Mm-hmm.
Get us where we were ⦠to
that, to that point.
Um, because He, you
know, He goes before us.
He sees- Mm-hmm ⦠um, things.
Yeah.
And, uh, I honestly think that- If they
wouldn't have came up and we went on the
trip, I don't know if I would've made it.
Mm-hmm.
Well, yeah.
Well, they said, they point-blank said-
Yeah ⦠that if we would've been on
the cruise and- Mm-hmm ⦠we'd been
snorkeling, and- Wow ⦠something
would've happened- Think, think
about the snorkeling ⦠that- Oh,
yeah ⦠that with the pressure,
that he would have not made it.
Yep.
Yeah.
Because we were sitting there.
The doc- the cardiologist is
like, "Don't cancel your trip."
Yeah.
We were leaving for
vacation on that Friday.
Gosh.
Or the next Friday.
He was supposed to have went that
Friday for his pre-op consult- Yeah.
Wow ⦠for his- His
shoulder ⦠shoulder.
Yeah.
Granted, you're gonna answer all
the questions that they ask you.
Right.
Never had any heart things, so they're not
gonna do a- They're not gonna do an echo.
They're, they might do a chest
X-ray to be- No, they- ⦠seeing.
They might do an EKG, but nothing
else Yeah, they're not gonna do any
work-up- Yeah, right ⦠because
you've not had any issues.
Mm-hmm.
So he said, "Don't cancel your vacation."
Yeah.
"Worst-case scenario when we
do this, you may have to have
a stent or something like that.
You'll be out of here this afternoon
or in the morning at the latest."
Yeah.
"You'll feel fine.
You'll be good.
Nope, you are in good health, you know,
never smoke, never drink," all the things.
Mm-hmm, yeah.
"You've done everything you need to do."
Great.
Tells me, "Go sit out there.
Give me 15, 20 minutes."
Fine.
He comes and sits down beside me.
After the heart cath?
Mm-hmm, and I'm like ⦠And he
said, "This is not the conversation
I thought we'd be having."
Oh my goodness.
Okay.
My heart fell to the bottom of my stomach.
Oh.
And he said, "We're gonna have
to do a complete open up," like-
Yeah ⦠the complete cabbage on him.
And I'm like, "What's that?"
I'm, "You're gonna have to explain this."
Yeah, like what does cabbage mean?
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
You know?
I'm like, "What does that mean?"
Yeah.
And he said, "We're gonna have
to do a complete-" Bypass, yeah.
Bypass, yeah.
"⦠a bypass op."
And I was like, "How many?"
Like, "What's the thing?"
He said, "Well, right
now I'm seeing three."
Oh, jeez.
And that, and that was
what he said at the moment.
And I was like, "Okay."
And I said, "What did he say?"
And he goes, "Well, I haven't told him.
We're gonna go tell him together."
I'm like- Oh, man.
Hmm ⦠so I don't know if I wanna cry,
if I wanna- Mm-hmm ⦠like scream.
Well, now you don't
get to have a reaction.
Yeah.
Like, you don't get to have that moment,
'cause now you have to have it all
together 'cause you have to go tell him.
And I, there's a thing that my mouth
may not say it, but my face will.
Uh-huh.
So, um, we walk into the room, and
he's laughing and talking to the
nurse that's in there and stuff,
and they're both just, uh, talking
about the Razorbacks, I believe.
And he said when we walked in the room-
He looks at the doctor, and he looks at
me, and he automatically knew something
was up when he looked at my face.
Yeah.
And he said, "What's up, Doc?"
And he said, "Well, it wasn't
at all what I expected."
He said, "But you've got
some pretty bad blockages."
He said, "I've seen three
complete 90s and a 70."
Wow.
And so he was like, he goes, "So we're
gonna have to do a complete bypass."
And he's like, "Okay."
He said, "But your heart
function is at 20%."
Oh, my goodness.
And he saidâ¦
And Craig asked him, you know, what
caused that, and he said, "Well,
blockage is gonna be genetics."
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
"You can't outrun genetics."
Yep.
He said, "Unfortunately, you
can do everything right, but
you can't outrun genetics."
And you were- Right ⦠still working out
and- Oh, yeah ⦠did you have energy,
or you just thought you had energy?
I, I did.
Um, but I just, the tiredness and
the shortness of breath, I ju- I
thought, you know, I'm, I'm almost-
Just getting older ⦠55 years old.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So I just kinda chalked it off as,
as, hey, I'm, I'm just getting old.
Mm-hmm.
Older.
Not sleeping much.
Yeah.
And wasn't sleeping-
Because the pain was over
but about five to six hours
a night maybe, at most.
So, um, but yeah, it's, uh, it's surreal
when you hear that from a, from a
doctor 'cause you've done everything
in your power to- Be ⦠be healthy.
Yeah.
Um, I had my blood panel pulled for-
14 years just to have my cholesterol
checked and make sure I was good.
Yeah.
But, you know, I never thought ⦠and
it, that falls back on me because my
grandfather had a quadruple bypass,
my dad had a quadruple bypass, and
why I just didn't go, "You know what?
I got m- uh, everything's
good with my blood.
Let's check my heart."
And- Yeah ⦠you know, I, I
didn't do that, but, um, you know,
it just kinda led to- to that.
And, um- Mm ⦠you know, uh,
he ⦠Crazy thing was, um, I d-
I really didn't know what to say.
I thought, how in the world am ⦠Are,
are you sure you're talking about me?
Mm-hmm.
'Cause it was ⦠I was like, man, this
is ⦠There is no way this is possible.
Yeah.
And, and, and, um, so he said,
"You know, we- we'll get with
the, uh, the surgeon and see when
His i- it's Dr.
Nolan, and we'll get
with him and he'll see."
So they came back and said it
would be a couple of weeks.
They said they would rather wait a couple
weeks because of his heart function.
Yeah.
And they wanted to put him on a
medicaca- Right ⦠medication to see
if they could get it up just a little
bit to make it a little more- Mm-hmm
healthy for- A little, yeah ⦠more
stable for, for- For surgery.
For sure.
And, uh, we were like, "Okay."
And then- And I'm sitting
there- ⦠we met the doctor.
Yep.
And I was like
This guy looks familiar.
Mm-hmm.
And, and he's the chief surgeon
there, like he's above everyone.
Mm-hmm.
And I was like
TAF?
And he said, "How'd you know that?"
And then he kinda looked down
at my chart and looked up at
me and he said, "Blue Mustang?"
And I went- ⦠"Oh, I used
to run around with him."
Mm-hmm.
He was from Dover actually.
Oh, wow.
He went to school at Dover and then,
um, uh, graduated from Russville, butâ¦
And, and he looked and he said,
he said, "Two weeks, we're
not gonna wait two weeks."
He said, "Let me see
when I can get you in."
Mm.
He said, "We need to go
ahead and get this done.
Um, just mentally it will help you."
Yeah.
Um, you know, the wait- Well, if you
are waiting two weeks- Oh, I kept
saying that ⦠like, what do you do?
So, yeah.
And then the stress of that.
Yes.
What does that do to the heart?
While we went home.
Yes.
Oh my goodness.
At first, because they, he
didn't have anything at first
that wasn't for an emergency.
Mm-hmm, so like you have to
be in an active MI in order
for them to consider that.
And he had not had his, all
of his enzymes were normal.
He had not had a heart attack.
Heart enzymes were good.
Okay, so your troponins were all-
But, like- ⦠regular and good
and even Oh, yeah, everything was
good ⦠he hadn't had a heart attack.
Yeah.
So and that's what most people were
thinking, oh, he had a heart attack.
He never has had- Uh-uh ⦠a
heart attack at all.
No.
And so they kept asking
about, have you chest pains?
And he's like, "I've never
had any chest pains."
And they came back and I think this, if
they wouldn't have told him this before
we went home, we might have made it for
two weeks, but they said 1% of people have
the Fred Sanford grab your chest- Mm-hmm.
Yeah ⦠let me see you Elizabeth moments.
It's shoulder, neck, back, and jaw pain.
Well, and your shoulder
was already messed up.
Yes.
Yeah.
So I didn't, uh, and then again, I chalked
that severe pain in my shoulder off as,
hey, it ne- this side needs replaced.
It has needed replaced for the last
five or six years, and I just put it
off and put it off and put it off.
Mm.
Because all the stuff that I had happen
on my left one when I had it replaced, but
my body was trying to tell me something.
And- Yeah ⦠you know,
I didn't, I didn't know.
Yeah.
So anyway, he scheduled it, what?
Like, two or three days later.
He's like, "I can get you in."
And, which, I mean-
I didn't wanna wait two weeks.
No.
Right.
I, I, I, I just didn't.
But, um, fast-forward to, uh, the
day of, and, um, anxiety- Yeah.
Just got the better of you.
Oh, goodness.
The devil wasâ¦
Yeah.
And he's never had anxiety.
I mean- Yeah ⦠uh, and,
and I had it bad, bad.
When I say bad, it was
really, really, really bad.
And, um- Like just not wanting
to be alone, like I've had.
Notâ¦
Yeah, not wanting her to leave-
Yeah ⦠my mom to leave.
I don't, I don'tâ¦
Yeah.
It, it was- Yeah ⦠it
was really, really bad.
And- Yeah ⦠I can just remember being
wheeled down to s- to the operating
room, and w- like I said at, um, at
church, I said, "You know, when people
say, you know, a million things go
through your mind, literally, I"-
Yeah ⦠a million things were going
through my mind, and I, I was so nervous
and, like, "What's gonna happen?"
Mm-hmm.
And when they wheel me in, I just
remember it being really, really cold.
Mm-hmm.
And there was about five or six
people in there, and a guy was
washing up, and he turned around
and looked at me, and he said, "Mr.
Kirven, we're gonna
take good care of you."
And I said, "Well, I appreciate that."
And it's
It's almost like in that moment
God says, "I got you."
Yeah.
You need to hear that from
God every once in a while.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So
I s- I don't know, it's like a peace
came over me Good ⦠and then I was out.
And I guess that's where
things really went south.
Um, there was a lot of
it that I don't remember.
Um- So the surgery- You don't
remember most of 27 days.
Yeah.
So the surgery did not go well, or�
So you can only be under for two hours
max with open heart surgery- Mm-hmm
without there being some
complications normally.
Mm-hmm.
And so they make for sure
that- Yeah ⦠two hours.
Now, before surgery, they have to give
you multiple shots of heparin- Mm-hmm
⦠for that, for the bypass and all the,
for the blood thinner, all the things.
So they give you huge
doses of that because- Mm.
And then they give you another
big dose when you're back there.
Yeah.
He had zero drug allergies except for
they gave him an anxiety medication
when we first went into the ER.
Mm.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Not, he's never had any
reaction to anything.
Well, this one he did.
Oh, goodness.
And he literally bottomed out with blood
pressure- Mm ⦠heart rate, everything.
We had to, like, reverse
stuff to get him to come to.
The doctor was slapping him in the face.
Wow.
Like, it was, it was bad, and it
was like fighting a bull in a china
cabinet at that point- Yeah ⦠because
he didn't know what he was doing.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
So that's the only time we've ever had
any instance of him having a reaction,
so we didn't have any known allergies.
When he, they come and tell us he's out
of surgery, however, his heart function
was so bad and it's so weak that he
has to be on a balloon pump- Oh, my
goodness ⦠for it to pump his heart.
So now he has to stay in ICU.
Mm-hmm.
He will not be going back to the
room like a normal patient will be,
and they will play that one by ear.
Okay, well, the longer
you're on a vent- Yes.
Mm-hmm ⦠the harder it is to come off.
Yeah.
Yep.
And all the things, no
matter how healthy you are.
Yeah.
Two days we're on a vent
in ICU with a balloon pump.
They're pumping fluids in him- Mm-hmm
⦠you know, to keep going, which he isn'tâ¦
His heart isn't pumping well
enough anyway, so he starts
just swelling and swelling- Yeah
and swelling, and it looked like
you took one of the surgical
gloves and you just blew into it.
The- Oh, my gosh ⦠the heparin
I was highly, highly, highly
allergic to, and nobody knew.
And we didn't know that- Oh,
yeah ⦠until day six after surgery,
because they have to- Really?
⦠they draw blood and start
doing tests to try- Right
to figure out things.
To figure out whatâ¦
It, well, I mean, you aren't
getting only the heparin.
There's, like, so many things- Many,
yes ⦠that you're getting for surgery
and, you know, pre-op- Yes ⦠and
during surgery that how do youâ¦
You can't pinpoint it, but clearly this is
a severe reaction we need to figure out.
But also, now you're in this super
fragile, you know, like, critical state.
You can't just stop the medications and
be like- Right ⦠"Okay, let's wait and
see and introduce these back slowly."
Right.
Yeah, so- Cripes ⦠you, it
takes a while for you, your
body to test positive for HIT.
Mm-hmm.
And which is where that day six comes in.
Yeah.
And in the meantime, they're
still giving you this medicine.
Exactly.
Because- So you're still having
reaction and, ugh ⦠and they're
giving you, there's like 15
different drugs that you're on.
Oh, mm-hmm.
And you see them along the little things
and- Yeah ⦠you know, they're trying to
bring him out, and they can't bring him
out because they can't take him off one
and give him more of the other to keep
his blood pressure where it needed to.
I mean, it was just a whole big ordeal.
So for me, I'mâ¦
You try to stay positive when you're
back there and you're talking to him,
but then I'm freaking out because
we don't know if he's going to pull
out of it or not pull out of it.
Right.
Right.
And at this point,
nothing's looking great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
For a perfectly healthy person to
come, be watching all the stuff and
seeing this pump pump his heart and
he's not responding to anything.
Yeah.
Like, nothing.
A machine is pumping everything for him.
It's breathing for him.
It's doing everything for him.
Right.
He's not doing anything on his own.
Right.
Like, they didn't, couldn't turn
his oxygen down enough for him
to breathe on his own- Right.
Yeah ⦠until right at the very end.
And so they asked me to be
in there when they started to
bring him to, because- Mm-hmm
he's going to go nuts.
Right.
He has- It's very disorienting ⦠and
he's claustrophobic, so- Oh, gosh ⦠if
they would have woken him up before
they would've pulled the tube out-
Right ⦠he would've been real bad.
Patient, yeah, and patients can grab
and mess stuff up and- And that's
like fighting a 2,000-pound bull.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Like, it, it's not fun.
No.
Yeah.
And I, we told them that, so
we went in there and- Thank the
good Lord he would watch my face.
They were able to do it, and
he would talk a little bit.
Do you remember that at all?
No.
The very first- No ⦠after we
got to the room, and we got up
there- So wait for just a second.
How longâ¦
He was on the vent for two days?
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
So day three- Mm-hmm ⦠after
surgery- Okay ⦠we go to a room.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
We haven't slept because I could go back-
I was gonna say, weren't you exhausted?
Yeah.
I slept, um, a totalâ¦
not a full eight hours in 27 days.
Mm-hmm.
Me and his mom were at the
hospital that whole time.
Mm.
And wouldâ¦
And he wouldn't let me sleep.
If I'd start to go to
sleep, he would wake me up.
Okay.
Because I didn't, I didn'tâ¦
You can't let me go to sleep.
I re- I do remember that.
Don't- He was afraid you would
die ⦠don't let me go to sleep.
Oh, man.
So, yeah.
He was- And he would want me to watch him.
If I walked out of the room
for anything, he was callâ¦
had his mom call me.
Um, the nurses couldn't
give him medication.
I had to be in there.
They had to tell me what they
were giving him, and he would
ask me if that was right.
He would not let them
help him do anything.
Only I could do it.
Oh, man.
They'd say, "Mr.
Kilburn, we can do it."
He's like, "No, she can't."
So it, it wasn't happening.
You're his person.
Mm.
So it wasâ¦
I mean, it was bad.
I mean, it was- Yeah ⦠it was not good.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And then, I mean, it was just heâ¦
I didn't understand some of
the stuff he was going through
because he would say hisâ¦
I mean, he was swelled
so bad it was horrible.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
And he was saying that he couldn't
walk because it hurt, but he wasn't
making a whole lot of sense with it.
Mm-hmm.
And they, the nurses and them, were like,
"No, I mean, he can, he can still walk.
We need him to walk.
That'll start- Yeah ⦠getting
it through there."
Yeah.
And he's like, "No, it hurts.
I can't."
Well, we just thought he didn't want
to, but he wasn't acting himself anyway,
not realizing that he really
could understand that part,
and he was saying, "No, Iâ¦
If I stand on them, it
feels like they're needles.
I can't do it."
Yeah.
Right.
So that was pushing us back, too.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Well, then he's getting
frustrated 'cause he can't do it.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
It was just like a big snowball.
I- Yeah ⦠I do recall one thing and-
I was like, "This isâ¦
Am I dreaming or, or
what's going on here?"
And I think
Oh.
I thought I was in three
different hospitals.
Um,
but I do remember
Getting up out of my bed
And I don't, I don't know if
I was dreaming this or God
was trying to show me this
But I remember walking out of my
room, and there was a big room
with absolutely nothing in it, and
a door right outside that room.
And I remember opening the door
and seeing the most beautiful place
that I've ever seen in my life.
And there was a big pond, and I-
Thank- God knows that I love to fish.
He, he knows it.
Yeah.
I look back on it now and I'm
thinking, was God trying to tell me
this is, this is what's in store for
you, but I'm not ready for you yet?
Maybe.
But- Or maybe, maybe more
like it's your choice.
Like- I, I, I don't know ⦠you
wanna stay or you wanna
come ⦠but I, it wasâ¦
And, but I remember looking around
and there were birds, and it was
the most beaut- beautiful trees
and this big beautiful pond.
And for whatever reason, I just shut it
after a few seconds, and I don't even
ever remember going even back to my room.
Like, it, I don't know if, uhâ¦
I can't explain it, and I don't know if
that was, like I said, if that was God
I, I don't know Yeah, I think
it was definitely a- I- ⦠a
spiritual look into- I, I think so
what's in store That's ⦠Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
And I mean, a lot of people in those
situations, I've heard, even my dad
has a story where he, you know, he
had a triple bypass as well, and
he s- he was on a cliff, and he was
like, "I remember having all this
luggage," and God said, "Toss it."
And he goes, "I just started tossing it."
And he goes, "I just felt
so ⦠" You know, like-
Mm-hmm ⦠you've been carrying this.
Toss it.
It's a really good story too, but a
lot of people have those moments where-
It's beautiful ⦠I think it's just a
moment of spiritual clarity, you know.
Mm-hmm.
That's ⦠I mean, and you are
obviously married to an angel, right?
Oh, absolutely.
She was with me.
Yes, you are.
He made, he made- She was
with me- ⦠when I saw.
It, it was amazing, her and, and my mom.
Yeah.
I mean, I ⦠And I was thinking when
you were talking about the doctor and
you knowing him, how God orchestrates
little details- Mm-hmm ⦠in your
life and- Mm-hmm ⦠made sure
that y'all did hang out, you know,
'cause He knows all the things.
He knows.
Yes.
They got in there, and he
ended up having six blockages.
Oh, my goodness.
Yeah.
Six bad- What's that even called?
So they were able to tie two of them off.
What, six blockages.
Well, were they all in ⦠Were
they in different vessels?
So they were able to take- Or
were they in, like, bifurcations,
or ⦠⦠two of them and- Mm-hmm
wrapped them together.
So he ended- Yeah ⦠up with a quadruple.
Okay.
But- Wow.
But still, yeah ⦠more
than what they thought.
For sure.
And had to have some repair
done on one of his valves.
Mm-hmm.
Which then caused some electrical things,
which he went into AFib while we were in
there- Oh, gosh ⦠and had to be shocked.
Oh, man.
And so that was another fun
episode- Yeah ⦠of that.
And just little things.
Literally, it was just one thing
after another and after another.
We went in.
He had never been on medication,
so he had to actually take daily-
Mm-hmm ⦠other than, like, his vitamins.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We went out, and we take nine of
'em morning and four at night.
I'm his dedicated pharmacist.
Yeah, you're his pharmacist.
And- You're his little dealer.
He makes, he makes jokes
about, "Now you're making
sure my medications are right.
You're not trying to-" Yeah.
'Cause, like- Yeah ⦠that's
a lot of trust, you know.
It is.
Ben's on some medications.
Well.
And he's like, "Are you sure?"
It is.
It is.
I, I mean- Ironically, he goes to pick
up ⦠I go to pick up his med- medicines
earlier, and- I give them to him, and he
walks in my office and he sticks it on my
desk while going ⦠He goes, "Seriously?"
I gave him Narcan.
Oh, gosh.
And he goes, um, "That's
a little disturbing."
Yeah.
Like, and he said, um, "Do I
need to be worried right now-
looking at you?"
And I start laughing and no one comes.
It's probably because you take 500
mil- Yeah ⦠medications a day.
I mean, really.
Yeah.
But, you know, I mean, we
have to make jokes now.
Yeah.
But- When did y'all notice a turnaround,
like for the ⦠I do remember, like, I
don't remember what day it was because,
I mean, I wasn't keeping track like you
were, but, like, there was a moment in
staff that Pastor Chris said, "No, no,
we really, really, we need to pray."
Like, it was a real serious moment.
I do remember that moment in
staff and we all just stopped.
I don't even know how long we prayed.
It was a while.
And, uh, like, that's when I
realized this is really serious,
like- Oh, yeah ⦠you know.
It didn't turn around even for
the positive until, like, day 23.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I remember- 24.
Like, we were at the very end.
I remember initially hearing that, you
know, you had gone in for surgery and that
it was worse than that they had expected.
And I remember thinking in my head,
"This might be tricky," you know?
And then we were getting reports that
things were, things were all right.
And then I remember that, that day that
you were like, "All right, listen."
Yeah.
And I said, "Okay,
here's what it could be.
You know, it could be
all of these things."
Yeah.
She's my, she's my doctor.
I wanna do what I tell you.
You know?
But yeah, I mean, I- we definitely ⦠So
many people were praying for you.
Oh, gosh.
So many.
And you, too.
Mm-hmm.
It was crazy.
Pastor Chris looked at my face when Dr.
Nolan came out to tell us everything
and that he was on the balloon pump.
And I guess my, again, my face-
Mm-hmm ⦠must say a lot of
things, and he just looks at me.
He's like, "It's gonna be okay."
Like- Mm ⦠"It'll be okay."
Because I'm trying not to,
like, just- Yeah ⦠start
falling in front of everybody.
Exactly.
Because we had a waiting
room full of people.
Yeah.
And I'm just like, uh, "I
don't know that I can do this."
But me and Kayden stayed
up all night long.
We did not, not even for
10 minutes, go to sleep.
That's my youngest.
And we waited- I remember
him ⦠and went in every single
second that they let us go in.
Yeah.
And sat there and would talk to him
and everything, and then we'd go out.
And Kayden would just hug me and
rub my back and tell me he loved me.
And we'd just sit there and talk and we'd
wait, and then we'd go in and do it again.
And- That's just what we did.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, until we could figure things out.
But- I do remember one of the first
things that I remember saying to her was,
"H- how many months to the play?"
"How many months to the play?
How many months to the play?"
I, I remember going, "I'm here.
W- how in the world am
I gonna be able toâ¦"
And I was like, "How many
months do I have to get ready?
I've, I've gotta do it.
I'veâ¦"
It, that was my mission, to get
well and be well enough to do that.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, and I love sports.
I, I do.
Um, but that play is my Super Bowl.
Yeah, it's your, it's a ministry.
Like, that is, that is ⦠It has meant
more to me than anything in my life.
Um- That's good ⦠it is, I mean, it,
well, it's totally changed who I am.
Yeah.
Um, the clarity of who God
really is and what he did for me.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I mean- But that was, I,
that was, uh, uh, that was my-
Yeah ⦠uh, uh, it, that was my
moment of, "I've gotta get outta here.
I've gotta get well, because
this is what I have to do."
Yep.
So I remember, I think the first time
that I actually ⦠And I still was
like, I don't know, I'd lost 35 pounds.
I looked awful.
I remember going to church for the
first time, and Pastor Alex goes,
"Are you gonna be ready for the play?"
Alex.
And, and I was like- Of
course ⦠, "I will be."
And- ⦠you know, I, I don't know.
My cardiac coach, 'cause I went to
cardiac therapy, um, after I came home,
and I told him, I was like, "Well, it
gets pretty rough for a little bit."
And then he said, "You
just need to be careful."
And I said, "Okay."
And- And he doesn't know what that means
honestly- He just has a different
definition ⦠I probably shouldn't
have been able to do what I did.
No, no, no.
Not you probably shouldn't have.
You should not have been
able to do what you did.
Right.
And, a- and, and- Not six months
after ⦠and I, and I did it.
And, uh, I didn't, I wasn't out of breath.
I, but God takes care of me- Yeah
every time.
For that, I, the pain in my shoulder,
I was like, "Lord, you're gonna have to
take care of it just like you did last
year- Mm-hmm ⦠about swinging the whip."
And no, I didn't swing it quite as
hard as I usually do, but- Mm-hmm ⦠I
had, I had no- Evan Pierce might
have appreciated that ⦠no pain.
No pain.
That's awesome.
So- Yeah ⦠you know, it- You
got towards ⦠and it's just, um-
Oh, I just- And he isn't kidding.
That's the very first thing he asked me.
He said- Hmm ⦠"How many more
months do we have till the play?
Do you think I'll be ready?"
And I just looked at him, I
said, "How about let's focus
on getting out of here first."
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let's take it one step at a time, babe.
I was like, "Let's just, let's
be able to walk on our own."
Yeah.
"If we can do that, then-" Yeah.
"Yeah, we might can do that."
And he was likeâ¦
And then of course he
kinda goes back out of it.
And then the next conversation
we'd have, "Hey, you think I'm
gonna be ready for the play?"
Aw.
Just, yeah.
"Yeah, we'll be able to do that."
So I mean, it was- Yeah.
It was constant.
You know, like, it was, that was, but
that was what was on- Yeah ⦠his mind.
Yeah.
And it did give him a goal.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Which is super important.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Now, um, by the end of the month of
being in there- Mm-hmm ⦠I might
have been a little testy with him.
I mean- Well, you had no sleep hardly
⦠I was, I was a little short with him.
He said I was mean.
Um, and I think I was at some
point, and I've had to apologize.
But-
I mean, yes, it was
super traumatic for him.
I mean- Yeah ⦠we went home and he was
still having panic attacks because- Mm-hmm
⦠okay, you go in, you're perfectly healthy.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm, yeah.
So you think no issues, to in five days
you are in having open heart surgery- Yeah
⦠and you don't remember the last month.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I didn't remember much.
So I mean, that every little pain that
you have, you're freaking out now.
Yeah.
"Okay, is this my heart?"
Yeah.
Because I didn't know
it was my heart before.
Understandably, it's like- For sure,
yeah ⦠so what is this gonna turn into?
Like, is this really my
shoulder that's hurting?
Like, you know, all the things.
Yeah.
And I said, "Okay, well, you should've
been released to w- to drive by
now on a normal- Mm-hmm ⦠and
to go back to sit at the desk-
Mm-hmm ⦠and tell them what to do.
So are you good with doing that?"
And he just looked at me, and
I knew in my head that for him
mentally, if I didn't get him back
in some sort of a routine- Yeah.
Mm-hmm ⦠I would fight
a different battle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because they had already told me
that open heart surgery patients
struggle mentally- Yeah, they-
after that ⦠they're different.
There's- Mm.
There's something that happens, they
get very, um- Depressed ⦠emotional-
Yeah, I've heard that ⦠about things.
He was really weepy and
I was not used to that.
Um, no.
Yeah.
Like, I'm not- Yeah.
Right ⦠when he's the
emotional one, I'm not.
Right.
There's, that's, there's something- Yeah
and that's, it, it really changed.
It doesn't last forever, though.
It doesn't.
Mm-mm.
It won't.
But thankfully we have Wendell and Lori.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and him and
Wendell are like this.
Yeah.
And so Wendell's like, "It doesn't matter
if you wanna come an hour, 30 minutes."
Mm-hmm.
"If you wanna come all day."
Yeah.
"You do whatever you feel
like you need to do."
And he's like, "No, I
think, I think I can."
So whether he really felt like
he could or not, he did it.
Mm-hmm.
But I think he also knew in the back
of his head that if he stayed at home,
that's all he was gonna think about.
Right.
Yeah.
And that was gonna be worse on him- Mm
than if he- He was a little uncomfortable
having to go back- Right ⦠at that
point if he wasn't really ready.
And that, again, it pushed him
mentally to get out of his own head.
Yep.
Yeah.
And not give the devil any space.
Well, and, yeah, and then, like,
once you do one day, y- you're like,
"Okay, I, I made it through that."
Yeah, I can do this.
And then I can do another day.
Yes.
And then another day, so.
But the devil literally tried to kill and
destroy him in every which way possible.
Exactly.
He's such a jerk.
Not to mention we come home.
Mm-hmm.
I said he's such a jerk.
He is such a creep.
Talk about it all the time.
I can't stand that dude.
So we come home from being
in the hospital for a month.
Mm-hmm.
To pops had busted under our sink.
Oh, geez.
I do remember, we, I brought you
a meal and you were like, "Hey,
listen," like s- and there was a-
Oh, yeah ⦠vehicle there, and
like- We still don't have a kitchen.
That's, that's, that's
been a nightmare- Ugh
fighting with the
insurance company, butâ¦
Yeah, he's gonna try to
attack you every single way.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, it's been eight months and we still-
Mm ⦠don't have cabinets, we don't
have, I mean, they still haven't done it,
but- Right ⦠I mean, still, it's fine.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we were ho- hoping my heart
function was better, and I, I mean,
it's improved some, but it's not
to the point to where they want it.
And, you know, that was
If they did something wrong ⦠a
little, a little, a little
frustrating to me, um, 'cause I
really pushed myself in, at therapy.
I graduated like a month early.
Mm-hmm.
And I probably pushed myself
a little bit too much there
because I w- I wanted better.
I wa- I wanted my heart to,
to be better, to be stronger.
And I still go, uh, three days
a week and, and do my thing.
But, um
Uh, the heart function, we thought
that the medication and the, um Uh,
the therapy would, would strengthen it.
W- well, it, it did, and it did a
little bit, but, um, we did, they did
the, uh, echo a month ago, and, um,
it wasn't quite where they wanted it.
So the 15th of May, um, I'm
getting a defibrillator.
Mm.
Which is just, I mean, it's just added
protection if my heart ever stops it.
Mm-hmm.
But also, what they put
in they can take out.
Yes.
So- So when your heart gets, gets
where it needs to be, when- whenever
the timing is- Yeah ⦠that
God's decided that- Absolutely
that's where your healing is,
they can take that sucker out.
That's right.
That's right.
Because that was one of the other
parts that they had a- we had asked
about, was the heart function.
Mm-hmm.
Like, was this fixable?
Was it not?
What was the things?
Yeah.
And they said, well, unfortunately
there was two factors here, and they
didn't know which one it was gonna be.
Was the enlargement and the function
down because of- Because of the
blockages ⦠the blockages, or
was it- Or did the blockage happen
because of the heart function?
Or was it the COVID-
Oh ⦠from the vaccine?
Mm.
Okay.
Because they were seeing- Yep ⦠lungs,
hearts- Lots of blood clots.
Mm-hmm ⦠kidneys- Blockages, yeah.
Mm-hmm ⦠with having issues.
Mm-hmm.
And they wouldn't know that until a
minimum of 90 days, because it takes 90
days being on the medications that they
were gonna give him to be able to see
the improvement that they would need to
see- Mm-hmm ⦠for the heart function.
Typically, they're not supposed
to tell you that, "Oh, we're
expecting it to get better."
Yeah.
Because their whole goal is
for it never to get worse.
Right.
Worse.
But- Yeah, that's the goal ⦠you
don't wanna tell a heart patient that,
"Oh, we're expecting it to get better,"
because if it doesn't, then mentally
they're already going through a struggle.
Right.
So now they're thinking, "Okay,
is there something wrong?
Did I not do something right?"
Mm-hmm.
All the things, which him pushing himself,
that's exactly where his head went.
Yeah.
There was something wrong.
Like- He did ⦠what did I not do right?
Instead of them saying, you know, "We
want it to, but if it doesn't, I mean,
it is what it is, as long as it doesn't
ever get worse than what it was."
Right.
Right.
Then we're, we're winning
if it doesn't get worse.
So they just had told us, "Well,
it, his blockages are great."
Yes.
Like, there's nothing there.
That's fine.
Mm-hmm.
Perfectly, blood flow's going.
That's why he feels good.
Mm-hmm.
This tells us it's from COVID.
Mm-hmm, yeah.
And it's permanent.
No it ain't.
Well, that's what, yeah.
No it ain't.
So that's a doctor's perspective.
Yeah.
I'm like, we serve a big God.
No it ain't.
That's right.
So they wanna do the defibrillator.
I didn't trust him, so I
called two other opinions.
Mm-hmm.
Both cardiologists, so we're,
one of them was the surgeon's PA.
Mm-hmm.
And the other one was one of our
friend's wife that's a cardiologist.
And, uh, they both said the same thing.
They said his biggest mistake
would be not to do, go ahead and
have the defibrillator put in.
Mm.
Because this type of defibrillator
also could help his heart function.
It would give his heart-
Okay ⦠a break while it helped.
Yeah.
So it could- Okay ⦠because
it's been weak- Right
for so long, and probably
longer than we actually knew.
Knew.
Mm-hmm.
So this could help it
not have to work so hard.
Right.
Yeah.
And let it do it to where
it possibly could be better.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
So me and him talked about that, and
I said, "Well, they said it would
be worse for you not to get it."
And he was like, "Okay.
Well then I guess that's
what we're doing."
Yeah.
And I know mentally that's-
Yeah ⦠messed with his head some,
but he's like, "God got me this far.
I mean, it ain't, he wouldn't
let me-" That's right.
Exactly.
"And we don't know."
This is just a chapter.
Absolutely.
Yeah, it's just another-
That's not your whole story
it's another testimony.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
What have y'all- So- What is, what do
you think, like, the number one thing
that you've learned through this?
We've definitely become closer.
That's good.
And I didn't know that was possible,
but- Well, things can happen to anyone.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
I mean, no matter w- no
matter what, you know?
Um-
Like I, I thought I was doing the
right thing to, to get a blood panel
pulled, you know, all those years.
And Trina He's in- She, she was like-
He's in Baker Jail ⦠why didn't you
tell me that it ran in your family
so we could- Well, you're never
honest with doctors ⦠and I didn't,
you know, I just didn't- Are we?
We're never honest with
doctors ⦠I just didn't listen.
I didn't think about it.
I thought- No ⦠my blood's good.
You know, 'cause in my mind- Mm-hmm
⦠um- You've done all the things
right ⦠I've done all the things right.
Yeah.
Uh, you know- Your blood's good,
everything's good, so ⦠I
went to him either and told him.
Well, his thing for him, he, he ate clean.
Exactly.
He did everything right.
So yes, his father had this stuff
done, but his dad- But his father
wasn't eating clean, and smoking-
No, he, he- ⦠and whatever.
You know, I don't know if he didn't
smoke, but- His dad didn't exercise.
He didn't ever eat clean.
No.
He didn't do what the doctor
told him even after his bypass.
Mm-hmm.
So in Craig's head, he did that
because of lifestyle choices, right?
Right.
Craig did everything to
prevent from being there.
Yeah.
So he just didn't say anything.
It wasn't even registering to him.
Yeah.
Right.
"Well, he's in, he's in medical
timeout for a while," she said.
Yeah.
But, you know, another thing I think-
God lets us go through things.
Mm-hmm.
He does.
Um, obviously he knew that I was
strong enough to deal with the
shoulder replacement surgery.
That's a wh- that's a, that's
a whole nother chapter.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Um, like had my first shoulder
replacement, doctor messed it up,
uh, messed it up a second time.
Mm-hmm.
Um, went to my final doctor in Dallas
and he said, um, it's not fixable.
And at the time I was, what?
39 years old.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I was 39 years old and,
um- In the peak of his career.
Yeah.
And, and- Yeah ⦠uh, but, you know,
and, you know, I'll, I'll say that I,
God doesn't allow bad things to happen,
but I think he allows things to happen.
I think that was my first chapter, um,
on having my shoulder replacement and
having all that trouble because, um, I was
fixing to get a big promotion with FedEx.
I'd been with them for 23
years and fixing to get a big
promotion, and I think God saw
what that was gonna do to me.
Mm-hmm.
I, I, I firmly believe that.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, yeah.
I would've had to move to a bigger
city, but I think he knew what the
money would do- Mm-hmm ⦠to me.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and my life and- Mm-hmm
and I think he allowed this to happen.
I think that was my first chapter.
I think he was like, "No, uh, um,
you're, you're not going down this road."
Mm-hmm.
"I'm keeping you on this one- Yeah.
Yeah ⦠you know, whether
you like it or not.
That's, that's where you're going."
And, um-
And I thought, "I'm 39 years old.
I'm having to take a early
retirement, not because I want to."
And I thought, "What am I gonna
do with the rest of my life?"
You know?
And I've been in church all my life, you
know, but, you know, I've stepped out.
Um, you know, I have.
I've made so many mistakes.
Um, and
God never left me.
He never
He's faithful
He never kept from chasing me Yeah.
Yeah And
when he finally got ahold of me
He drastically changed my life
It makes everything worth it Oh
gosh Makes it all worth it 'Cause
I ask Him, and I tell people, "You,
you better be careful what you
pray about because God knows
your heart, and if you're serious
He'll take you up on it I'm telling you.
Yeah.
I, Iâ¦
And w- him and I had a talk one night.
And I said, "God, I need you to
take every stronghold from me."
And he did
He made me
He gave me a love for
her that I'm never had.
And
a love for people
Uh
He's put me in some crazy places.
Like, what are you, what,
what am I doing here?
What, what am Iâ¦
Um, but
I know that they were just chapters in
my life, and he put people in my life.
I can't tell you how many people that
I've ⦠I just walked in a different room
and prayed for people at Planet Fitness.
Mm.
Um, when he took that chapter
and I went to Miller Roofing, um,
you know, I do devotions there.
Um, I had a, a young kid, um,
that works in the repair team
walk in my office last Friday,
and he
I was texting one of the,
one of our contractors.
He said, "Oh, you, you
on your, your phone?"
I said, "No, Connor, come on in."
I said, "What can I do for you?"
And he walked around the front of my
desk and he said, "I wanna pray for you."
Aw.
And I, I was like
And I almost didn't, uh,
w- am I hearing him right?
I, I, itâ¦
I said, "Connor, I,
absolutely I'll pray for you."
And he said, "No, I wanna pray for you.
You've prayed for numerous people here.
You do the devotion.
We all know that you're a man of faith.
We all know that here."
There's scripture hanging, I don't
know how many- ⦠what, one over.
Like, when you walk through my
door, you walk under scripture.
Under scripture.
And there's, I have these big
signs on the outside of my
office, and they're scripture.
Mm-hmm.
And so you
You ain't getting away from it.
No.
Yeah.
So, you know, and, and he-
He prayed for me for a
good three or four minutes.
Wow.
Unbelievable.
Unbelievable.
Yeah.
And it just, it, it made my whole
week and I said, "God, you just gave
me affirmation on why I'm here."
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
She's not a kid that goes to church.
And yeah.
Oh, wow.
And I, it's just, He is really,
really showing out in my life.
Mm-hmm.
And I give Him the praise for it.
Um, He's pulled me through some
very dark places in my life.
Um-
But I tell you what, He is faithful Yeah,
he is And He's listening Mm-hmm And people
are watching Yeah People are watching Yep.
And- They're watching
How you carry yourself, what you
say Mm-hmm ⦠how you act Mm-hmm.
How you react ⦠how you react to things.
And- Yeah ⦠you know, I, I don't know.
I, I, I just can't thank him enough for
Being exactly what I needed
Mm-hmm at every point in my life.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm
I mean, and he's obviously not finished
with you- Oh, no ⦠like, at all.
No, no.
No, no, no.
Yeah.
Like you're- And that's,
that's where I'm at with it.
I'm like, y- I- And it's
helped so many people.
Yeah.
And, and it's not, you're not done either.
Yeah.
No.
Well, I, I know that ⦠I
forgot to mention this.
Three, was it three or four years ago on
the play that, um, what's-her-name came?
I invited her.
Faith came, and I in- I invited
her ⦠Take your medicine, Craig.
That's my- That's it.
I set an alarm ⦠that's my ⦠Yeah.
I have to take the medicine.
So that would, yeah.
So, um- It never, it goes
off every day for him.
But back, back when I was
at Planet Fitness, um-
A girl named Faith would come
in with her dog, and I would
lo- I'm, I'm an, a dog lover.
I, and I would al- I'd finally
end up keeping a big box
of treats behind the desk.
And anyway, I'd, I could tell that she
knew a little bit about church and stuff.
Maybe not a whole lot.
Mm-hmm.
But I could, I could tell that
she was searching a little bit.
So it was, i, I don't know, three
years ago, four years ago maybe.
F- Mm-hmm ⦠can you remember?
Anyway.
Mm.
I said, "You wanna come to the play?"
And she said, "You know, I think I will."
I said, "Well, let me know whatnot you
come, and I'll find you afterwards."
Mm-hmm.
And so she sent me a message.
She said, "Hey, I'm here."
And I said, "Well, try to
sit, when you come in, try to
sit in the middle section."
Um, she said, "Okay."
So, um, when the play was over, I was
just walking, walking down, and she was
standing over to the left of the fountain
And she was just weeping
And I remember walking over to her
and I said, uh, "So glad you came."
She said, "Craig, it's so, so good.
It was so good."
And I said, "Are you okay?"
And she shook her head no.
I said, "Well, you want
me to pray for you?"
And she said, "I do."
Oh, there was Chris Walker was there,
and Pastor was there close, and, um,
who else?
Marcus.
And I looked over and I motioned
for them to come over there.
Well, we prayed for her, and she, after we
prayed for her, well, she just fell out.
Wow.
And, uh, I was talking to her after
we prayed for her and she said
Craig, what you don't understand
is I was contemplating taking my
life tonight Goodness And if it
wasn't for you inviting me hereâ¦
So
And that just, mm
That's why that play's so important.
Yeah.
It is, it is so important to me.
It's a, it's an outreach and-
Yes ⦠it's changed so many lives.
So many lives.
I mean, if, I, I don't know.
It- So many that we know about.
Yes.
And exponentially more
that we'll never know.
Never know.
Yes.
Yes.
We'll never hear that story.
Yes.
Yeah.
So- It's amazing ⦠you know, I'm just
thankful that, um, that God uses me.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I know, um, you know, when,
when God gives you the urge to do
something, he might not literally
come out and say, "Hey, you need to
go pray for her," or, "You need to
do this," or, "You need to do that,"
but I know when he's speaking to me.
Yeah.
And-
I'll always do what he needs me to do.
Yeah.
I mean, there's nothing
that I won't do for him.
Um, used to make me nervous.
Like, this would make me nervous-
Mm-hmm ⦠um, in the past, but-
But now- You know, any time Iâ¦
And I told him, I said, "G-
God, I will always, always
give my testimony to anyone.
I, I, I will always share your word- Yeah
on what you've done for me."
Mm-hmm.
Um, and never be ashamed of it.
Never be, "Oh, gosh, I don't
know if I can do that."
Um, I, I'm, I'm here to
tell you I'm, I'm all in.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, 'cause he was all in for me.
Yeah.
I don't know.
He, he has been with me through
every storm that I've been through.
Wow.
Yep.
Soâ¦
That's, that's awesome.
I mean, it's clear he is not finished
with you- Oh, no ⦠neither one
of you, and so many more chapters
to write, and- Absolutely Hopefully
they'll be a little easier.
Yeah.
You know?
I, I, whatever.
A little easier in the
walk, you know, butâ¦
So the first Sunday that we came back
to church after his surgery, it was in
the middle of praise and worship, and
Jonica comes over and grabs our hand, and
she said, "God just showed me a vision
of y'all walking through those doors,
and everyone else kids are behind you."
Oh.
So don't think what you're
going through is for nothing.
Wow.
Worth it.
Worth it all.
100%, yeah.
'Cause he's gonna follow
up on that promise.
Oh.
And I'm just like- Never breaks a promise.
You're like, "Okay.
Thank you, Jonica.
I have to go sit down so I
don't just burst into tears."
And, you know, e- everybody
said the same comment, "Craig?
That happened to Craig?"
Like- Yeah
he's the eldest person we know.
Mm-hmm.
And since then, people that-
wasn't.
Mm-hmm.
Are not doing stuff as clean as him,
have went and got tested- Mm-hmm ⦠and
had stuff and figured out, oh-
Mm-hmm ⦠there's something wrong.
We need to, yeah.
We need to get something fixed or- Yeah
⦠got on medication to help with stuff.
Yeah.
That, I mean, if you sit down
and you start to fall asleep,
you're not getting oxygen.
Mm-hmm.
So there's some type
of blockage somewhere.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We learned.
Between his shoulders and this, I'm
pretty sure I could have a medical degree.
I was, well, I was thinking when you were
talking about, you know, everything, I
was like, wow, she's really learned a lot.
Like, I didn't know what your background
was before- Oh, she knows ⦠but
I was like, oh, she's got it down.
Yeah.
I, they ask, they'll call me,
"Hey, what's his medications?"
And I can tell you everything he takes.
She can rattle them off.
Yep.
How much he takes.
Ev- every bit of them, his dosages.
Yep.
You know.
You got a crash course.
Same.
Yeah.
Same thing with his shoulder surgeries.
I can tell you when we started anything,
how long it took, everything we did.
Wow.
But God gave me that part of my
brain that works really good.
I guess that's, works for my job.
But- Yeah ⦠it allows me to
be able to take care of him.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, somebody's got to.
She's crazy.
She's crazy, and she's, she's
been the best thing for me.
You know, the Bible says when he finds
a wife, he, he finds a good thing.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, man.
I would say say it louder,
but that was pretty clear.
Whoo.
Yeah.
That's what it says.
Yep.
That's, and that's what it says.
And I tell you what, he,
um, I found a good thing.
No, no doubt about it.
She has been rob- oh,
she's been my everything.
Um.
That's sweet.
So I don't know, um, I don't
know sometimes what I would,
what, where I would be without
her, uh, 'cause she pushes me.
Uh, she pushes me to be better.
Um, she knows how, how strong my
faith is in God, and, and, and she
pushes me to, um, to be better.
That's the kind of spouse you need.
Yep.
And absolutely.
Absolutely, yeah.
Yeah.
It's just- Iron sharpens iron.
Yeah.
That's right.
Yep.
That's right.
So it's, it's been, it, like
I said, it's been great.
It's, it's not been easy.
Um, like she said, uh, if you can go
through the things that her and I have
been through, have put each other through
and still be together and love one another
and be stronger than you've ever been.
And want to spend time with each other.
Yeah.
I, it's, uh, it's a God
thing, no, no doubt about it.
Uh-
I know He redeems.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
He does.
And He pursues us just like He
has- Absolutely, He pursues.
Absolutely.
Yep.
Yeah, that's good.
Yes.
So it's just, um
I don't know.
It's just, it's been an amazing ⦠And,
and it, it has been a rough journey
with, with everything, all the shoulder
stuff, the heart stuff, but, but
I know, uh, God has a plan for me.
He does.
Mm-hmm.
He has a plan for e- for everybody.
So- Yep.
You just gotta let Him.
You just ⦠You know, that's the
thing about it, you, uh- You have to
submit to- Absolutely ⦠His will.
Absolutely.
And, and when you do that, there's no
other choice but to go walk with Him-
Absolutely ⦠through the, the storms.
Yeah.
You just, you know, you make a commitment
to God, and I was telling somebody the
other day, you're bound, like, by choice.
By choice, yes.
But you are bound to Him.
Yes.
And what comes, you just
know He's gonna be there.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Yeah.
And it never said it was gonna be easy.
Easy.
No, it doesn't.
Yeah.
No.
That was a thing that- Sometimes it's not.
In fact, I think it says it is hard.
It is hard.
It's gotta be hard.
Absolutely, yeah.
Yeah.
Sometimes you think, "You didn't
tell me it was gonna be this hard."
Yeah.
Right.
But He does promise peace.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
And so you just have to take it.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
But that's awesome, and- But- ⦠I
mean, this has been an amazing story
and- Yeah ⦠we're so glad that we
had y'all on, and- Oh, it's been-
definitely have to have you
back to tell some more chapters.
Oh, gosh, yeah.
We have a whole, the whole-
⦠shoulder surgery, driving to
Dallas, and for what, three years?
Mm-hmm.
That's crazy.
Like, that whole thing was ⦠Yeah.
Can't wait.
I can't, I cannot wait.
But, uh, it's, I'm, uh ⦠You
couldn't make this stuff up.
No.
No, you couldn't, but I-
I mean, it's just, it's
We just sit back and laugh
about everything now.
Yeah.
I mean, it's just like-
Yeah ⦠you gotta be kidding.
But- But, um, yeah, well, I'm honored
to, to do this, so thank you so
much for- Thank y'all ⦠allowing
me to- Yeah ⦠to just talk about
God and what He's done for me.
Um- He's easy to talk about.
Oh, my goodness.
He is.
I could, I could do this all night long.
Well, I mean- I could.
I could talk and talk and talk and talk
⦠that's, that's why we started the podcast.
Yeah.
We started it.
We were like, "Let's do it."
Oh, yeah.
Talk about God.
It's, it's good.
Yeah.
It's good stuff, you know.
Um, people are hungry.
Yeah.
And, and they, and- They need to hear
and they need to hear it.
Mm-hmm.
They need to hear it.
Absolutely.
The journey so that they
can grow their faith.
You know, when you hear other people-
Mm-hmm ⦠talk about what's God's done-
Absolutely ⦠it grows their faith, too.
And- And like he said, people watch,
and you don't realize they're watching.
That's right.
Exactly.
That's absolute- Yeah.
So.
Well, thanks, guys, so much.
Thanks.
It's great.
Absolutely.
Thanks for having us.
Yeah.
Well- Yep.
We'll catch you next time.
Yep.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.