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The podcast for high-level leaders carrying the invisible weight of the world.
If you’re a founder, executive, or high-ranking leader, you already know this truth: the higher you rise, the fewer people you can safely talk to.
Lonely at the Top is a sanctuary in the storm—a space where the emotional cost of leadership is named, and where relief, clarity, and grounded support are always on the table.
Hosted by Soul Medic and former psychotherapist Rachel Alexandria, this podcast dives into the unspoken realities of high-level decision-making: the pressure, the isolation, the doubt, and the fatigue. Each episode offers insight, emotional tools, and conversations with seasoned leaders who’ve learned to navigate the weight of responsibility without losing themselves.
[00:00:00] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: I was told, " you go to the continent and you speak your language, you get your education, and all this other kind of stuff.
[00:00:07] And, you know, you're talking all of these big words that we don't understand. And when you come home, you don't talk to us. You talk down to us." But you know what, sis? We know where you came from. Do you remember where you're from?"
[00:00:22] Rachel Alexandria: Welcome to Lonely at the Top, a podcast for high-level leaders carrying the invisible weight of the world. Because you know the higher you rise, the fewer people you can safely talk to. Here we welcome founders, executives, and decision-makers who feel the isolation and pressure that comes with power.
[00:00:41] Lonely at the Top is your sanctuary in the storm, and I'm your host, executive coach and former psychotherapist, Rachel Alexandria. Today on the podcast for the second time, but the first time for all of you, we have Dr. Gerry [00:01:00] Ebalaroza-Tunnell, affectionately known as Dr. G. She's a native Hawaiian scholar, wayfinder and founder of Co3, Co-creating Cohesive Communities. Grounded in ALOHA, which is an acronym, and guided by purpose, she weaves indigenous wisdom with systems thinking to help leaders and communities navigate complexity with clarity, courage, and pilina.
[00:01:29] Am I saying that right?
[00:01:30] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Yep
[00:01:31] Rachel Alexandria: Okay. And pilina, which is, a word for relationship. An adjunct professor, oral historian, and award-winning author, Dr. G invites others to lead in ways that honor people, place, and the relationships that sustain us. Gerri, I am so excited that we, we get to do this so that we can actually put it out to the audience.
[00:01:56] We, we had some, uh, irreconcilable [00:02:00] tech difficulties that we didn't realize until after we finished the recording last time, and my VA who helps out, shout out to Anita, said, "No, you gotta do this one again. It was such a good conversation." So no pressure. We have to...
[00:02:16] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Oh, thank
[00:02:17] Rachel Alexandria: welcome back.
[00:02:18] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: you. Yeah, thank you so much for having me back.
[00:02:22] Rachel Alexandria: so we have known each other, like, sort of, you know, very loose ties, right? I, I'm trying to remember, and I probably talked about it last time, but now I don't remember, how did we originally meet? Do you know?
[00:02:38] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: I think we met at a networking event that Tracy Warren, put out.
[00:02:46] Rachel Alexandria: okay.
[00:02:47] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: I think
[00:02:47] that's, that's... And that was a, that was a long time ago Yeah.
[00:02:58] Rachel Alexandria: It was a long time ago. Shout out Tracy Warren. I don't know if she listens, but I think occasionally she might. A great gal [00:03:00] in Seattle. And you're, are you still in Seattle too?
[00:03:03] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: I'm actually east of Seattle. I'm in Bothell, so yeah, I'm on the other side of the lake. But yeah, I'm still here. I mean, you know, Washington, it's beautiful, right? It's beautiful here. I love being around the trees and the mountains and the ocean, and you know, it's like, I don't know. I think this is some place where, besides back home in, Hawaii, this place is pretty cool. So yeah, I'm still here
[00:03:30] Rachel Alexandria: Okay. Well, I remember I wanted to have you on the podcast because you have such an interesting story and the experience of being in charge and being in rarefied air. Uh, uh, I just like everyone's perspective is different, right? Everyone has a unique experience, and I- you've been sharing on social media for quite a long time about the process of getting your PhD [00:04:00] and where that's taken you.
[00:04:02] When I invited you to be on the show, Lonely at the Top, did you have a resonance, like, with this experience of, like, ascending and then being in that rarefied space that was also, like, some isolation for you?
[00:04:17] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: yeah. What's also multi-layered as well too, right, is, being a leader, being in this position, being a woman of color, being from Hawaii, living here, living in the diaspora, right? There's all of these multiple layers to that, I have to work through. And so sometimes there's spaces where it's like, "Do I really belong here?"
[00:04:44] And then there's other spaces where it's like, "Oh, wait a minute, this is where I belong." But do the rest of us feel like this is where we belong, right? So it's like there's all of these different, layers to feeling this, isolation. But I think [00:05:00] what is important is, and I had to get to this point, is knowing who I am,
[00:05:07] Rachel Alexandria: Mm.
[00:05:07] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: know?
[00:05:08] And that took a lot. That took a lot to get to this place. You know, it's like, I suffered a lot from imposter syndrome, right? It's like working extra hard and doing things to where it's like, you know, " I'm gonna make sure that they understand my value, that they know my worth." And, you know, and so I
[00:05:30] Rachel Alexandria: Yeah.
[00:05:31] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: would, I would work so hard.
[00:05:34] And then, you know, it's like, realizing that the next generation is also watching, and asking myself, you know, "What am I mirroring for the next generation?" And so I needed to sit with that as well too, in this place of deep self-reflection on asking myself, " Hmm, what kind of ancestor am I gonna be? Are they [00:06:00] going to look at me and feel like, 'Yeah, you know what?
[00:06:03] Dr. G did this. You know, she, she busted her ass and she worked hard and she did this and she did that,' and all of these things?" And,
[00:06:12] Rachel Alexandria: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:13] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: you know,
[00:06:14] Rachel Alexandria: Yeah
[00:06:15] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: like te- you know, and so I had to think about those things. I had to think about being in organizations and institutions where their goal was to remove my breath, work me until I couldn't work anymore, or have an environment where it is so toxic, it is so toxic that you have to make a decision, how do I thrive and survive? Am I going to stick with this place that is tearing me apart, removing my breath because I need to survive, because I need the money, right? That's just... It's like, ugh, it just feels so, it feels so yucky. [00:07:00] And so, you know, I had to, I had to be in those spaces. I had to be in those spaces, and I had to make those decision, and those decisions are...
[00:07:08] That's hard because it's not just affecting you, it's affecting your whole entire family, your lifestyle, right? You, you remove the money, you have to, like, change your lifestyle, and how are you gonna do that?
[00:07:20] Rachel Alexandria: So you, so what I'm hearing from your story, just like as, as you talk about it in broad strokes, is that you had to make the choice of moving away from something that maybe had more money, more prestige, more power, but was killing you, into choosing yourself. I mean, that sounds like a leadership decision that really tested you.
[00:07:44] Can you tell us a little bit more about this story?
[00:07:47] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Yeah. So I guess, you know, this didn't, it didn't happen all at once, right? it showed up as fatigue. It showed up as saying yes to things [00:08:00] when I should have said no. It was wrapped in an imposter syndrome and this feeling that I had to constantly prove my value. And it was from the outside, I feel like a lot of people looked at it as, you know, this is, this is leadership.
[00:08:20] This is leadership. But inside, I started to... I felt like my soul was, was dying. My spirit was dying. Because You can have a title, you can hold the title, but if the work is not being done
[00:08:37] Rachel Alexandria: Hmm
[00:08:38] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: because you have, powers above you that is stopping you from doing the true work of what this title is supposed to hold, it's very difficult. It's very difficult. And you have other people, you know, especially in the world where, you know, we don't wanna talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion, right? 'Cause those things don't [00:09:00] happen, right? It's like, we
[00:09:00] don't
[00:09:01] Rachel Alexandria: I wanna talk about those things, but but yes, there is an administrative policy right now of, yeah, trying to prevent talking about what's real. Yeah
[00:09:12] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Right. Right. Exactly. And in that moment, you know, it's like you can see people are suffering. You can see, you know, all of these things, these inequities that is happening in this world. And when you look like this, like me, and the people that are suffering are the ones that look like me, and I am in a place of power and positionality, I better be able to hold that space of leadership and love You know?
[00:09:42] A- and it's like a love for my people, for my culture, and
[00:09:45] Rachel Alexandria: Yeah.
[00:09:47] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Woo, I gotta take a moment. I gotta take a moment to breathe here.
[00:09:50] Rachel Alexandria: Okay.
[00:09:51] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Yeah
[00:09:52] Rachel Alexandria: Yeah, there's some, there's some powerful conviction running through this story. We didn't talk about this ahead of time. Is this something that you [00:10:00] can name with specifics, or is it something that you would prefer remains unnamed?
[00:10:04] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: you know, people who know me, yeah, exactly. People, people who know me, they know, right? And if you, if you, people wanna know, they can, they can look it up. It's all, it's all over the place. But I just feel that I'm coming to this place where I'm really careful with my words. I'm really careful with what my breath is going to exhale into spaces.
[00:10:32] And if there is a name or something that I just don't want it to slip from my tongue
[00:10:39] Rachel Alexandria: Hmm. Yeah
[00:10:40] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: because it is undeserving of my breath is what I'm saying
[00:10:45] Rachel Alexandria: S- I mean, that's a lovely way to say it. Yeah. I mean, I'm not trying to, like, pour any tea here, you know, that people don't want poured. But, yeah, so that makes sense to me. So you made the decision to step away from a [00:11:00] position of power where you had hoped to be well-representing people who look like you and helping them, but because of the situation at hand, You had said yes to some things that weren't actually serving, and so you made the executive decision to step away
[00:11:16] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Yeah, absolutely. That's it. I love the way that you just kind of like summed that up. Beautiful. Beautiful. 'Cause I'm such a storyteller, right? So it's like I've gotta go through all the details, but yeah. Yeah, exactly
[00:11:29] Rachel Alexandria: you kinda need both, you know what I mean? I think storytellers are incredibly important. I love that oral storyteller is now in your bio. That's fantastic because that's so important that, that I can feel the ancestral connection to that. and That's also something that cannot
[00:11:47] We were, we were talking about AI before we started this show. It's something that can't be replaced by AI,
[00:11:54] at least not yet, you know?
[00:11:56] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Right? Exactly. Exactly. You know, [00:12:00] because there is an energy when you are in front of another human being, right? So, I think I shared this with you before about the word aloha. A lot of people understand aloha to just be a greeting of hello and goodbye, and it means so much more than that.
[00:12:22] Because when you are in the presence of someone else, that is alo. And like we are doing right now, face-to-face, even though we're online, right, is that our words transfer to each other through breath, and that's ha. Ha, the breath of life. Aloha. So you are in the presence of breath, and breath signifies life.
[00:12:51] Life is sacred, so should our words. And, and not just the words that, um, we say to each other, [00:13:00] but the words that we say to ourselves, the words that become policies, the words that become laws, right? These are ... These are ... This, this is sacred, right? It's like if, if life is sacred, so should our words and everything that it creates.
[00:13:19] And so I'm very careful on that. There's so much power in words. Words can, words can tear a person down, they can build them up, just like with a country. One word. One word. And people throw their words out like nothing, and that's how we hurt one another. And also, you know, it's like when we are in conversation, we definitely are going to say things that's going to sting, because truth isn't always, like, coddling, right?
[00:13:53] Truth sometimes really hurts.
[00:13:56] Rachel Alexandria: Yeah
[00:13:56] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: really hurts. And but we have to also ask [00:14:00] ourselves, you know, if something is hurting me, it's not the other person's fault. I need to be able to think and reflect on the fact that it's like, if this is hurting me, what is not healed? Why is it that I hurt so much when it's touched by a word?
[00:14:18] So we also have to ask ourselves, you know, it's like what traumas have we not dealt with, instead of constantly looking outside.
[00:14:27] Rachel Alexandria: Yeah,
[00:14:28] I think what I hear you saying, and I agree with, is to be a truly good leader, you get to, work to prevent harm by what you let slip through your breath to other people. And when you hear things from other people, you get to mitigate harm by choosing how to process what they have sent to you
[00:14:55] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Yes. Yes. That's aloha. That's [00:15:00] the guiding principles of aloha. So The first letter in ALOHA, A, that's to ask questions. And asking questions is so foundational because it begins the relationship, right? Just being able to inquire and be curious about the next person, right, that is sitting in front of you. And then the L is to listen, to really listen. Listen, listen, so then that way you can understand and you can learn. But a lot of times we don't do that. When we ask questions and we listen, if it's something we don't wanna hear, all we're doing is formulating a response in
[00:15:42] our, in our
[00:15:43] Rachel Alexandria: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:44] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: brain, which means that we're not present, right? So it's like we're not, we're not there. We're somewhere else already defending something.
[00:15:53] And so that's where the O comes in, right? To observe. Observe what is happening in your [00:16:00] body. Observe those narratives that you're having in your head, right? Observe how it's like, all right, why am I activating? You know, it's like... and think about it. Be able, to self-regulate. Be able to self-regulate in that place. To always come from this place of heart, H, heart, where compassion, empathy, understanding, peace, right? It's like all of those things that we want in order to have these conversations. Resilience, right? That's where I feel the heart part comes in. So then that way we can adapt. Final A in ALOHA is adapt.
[00:16:40] Adapt the way we're thinking, adapt the way that we're communicating with each other, adapt the thoughts, right? And, and it's not perfect. It's not perfect. It takes, woo, it takes a lot of practice. It takes a lot of practice to get there. And one thing that, [00:17:00] um, that I wanna share is that when I have these epiphanies, when I have these things, you know, coming up where, you know, birthing the guiding principles of ALOHA, it's not something that is just I'm writing it down.
[00:17:14] I'm doing this because I'm living it. I can't talk about anything if I don't know what it does to my body, what it does to my nervous system,
[00:17:26] Rachel Alexandria: Yeah.
[00:17:27] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: right? So I had to be very self-aware.
[00:17:32] Rachel Alexandria: How did you come to develop this? Like, I'm curious about your trajectory because I know, we didn't talk about it in your bio, but, you are a military veteran, right? and you have other, experience sitting in very important places that we're not gonna give breath to.
[00:17:49] how did you, like, did you realize that you needed this kind of training? cause no one comes out of the womb like, "I am a perfect meditating [00:18:00] Buddha," and know how to be, you know, chill with everyone. So how, how did you develop this?
[00:18:08] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Uh, through pain, through, uh, lots of tears, right? It's like there was, there was a lot of tears, a lot of, a lot of learning. So when I was working on my dissertation, there was a lot of things that was happening in our country, and the reason why DEI became such a thing in our society. And, you know, it's like I also was in this place where I started to decolonize or work on decolonizing myself, which
[00:18:41] Rachel Alexandria: Okay, I'm gonna pause you there 'cause we wanna know what does that... I know what that means, but I, you know, if you're not super into, I, what would I even call this? Like, social justice and civics. If you don't listen a lot to this kind of language, please pause and tell us what decolonizing yourself means, [00:19:00] because not everyone's gonna know
[00:19:02] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Right. So in a colonized world, everything I feel, and this is just my perspective, right? Everyone has their different ideas on what it means, so this is just one part of it. And the way that I think of colonization is the consumption, right? The, power, the, eradication of the superiority, right?
[00:19:23] Colonization is, all of these things where people can come in and just rip out cultures, just remove people from their cultures, from their language, from all of those things. And I played into that, and I played into that very, very well. you know, when I left Hawaii and I moved to the continent, I thought I was better than everybody else because I left.
[00:19:47] I left the projects where I lived. I left being poor. I left doing this, and if I can pull myself up by my bootstraps, and so can everybody else. That's the attitude that I had, right? That's the attitude that I had.[00:20:00]
[00:20:00] Rachel Alexandria: Yeah, and let's talk about how pulling oneself up by one's bootstraps, the origin of that phrase is to say something that is impossible to do,
[00:20:08] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Yeah
[00:20:09] Rachel Alexandria: right? Yes, please continue
[00:20:12] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Yeah. And it's not, that it's impossible, it's just that there's no access to it because there's other people that feel that certain people can have these access. So it's possible if, if we were able to think differently about it. But anyway, so the decolonization part of it was I needed to figure out who I was.
[00:20:31] And there were these angels, and I call them my angels because it's, these moments where I met up with certain people. So one of the, the first time that I was met with the question of my identity and who I was, was by, Dr. Sayumi Irie. And she came because I was doing this retreat over at the Whidbey Institute, and I thought it was great.
[00:20:56] You know, I was, I was talking about heart math and, you know, I [00:21:00] was talking about a lot of things that was, the heart work and everything like that. And, she Later on in the weekend, she w- we met and we were sitting out- outside, and she said, "I came here because I wanted to hear you."
[00:21:13] And I was like, "Okay. Well, you were here all weekend, and I was talking, so I think you ... I mean, you heard, you heard
[00:21:23] Rachel Alexandria: Yeah. And she's
[00:21:24] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: right? She's like, "No. What I heard was you regurgitating what the white man taught you." I didn't hear anything about where you're from, your lands, your people. And I was like, "Whoa.
[00:21:41] Whoa." I didn't know how to take that, right? I didn't know how to take that. But I actually, it hit me in a way, like, where I just had to, like ... It was like my breath was taken away in that moment. I was like, "Whoa." And I just had to ... I told her, I was like, " I'm gonna have to sit with [00:22:00] that.
[00:22:01] Rachel Alexandria: Yeah
[00:22:01] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: have to, I'm gonna have to sit with that."
[00:22:04] Because it was like, what was that? And then another, incident was a good friend of mine, I went back home and it was like a class reunion or I don't know what it was. But it was one of those, and I went back with all of my classmates. And I think I was working on my master's at that time.
[00:22:24] And, when I went back home, somebody told me that I talk like I was, I was haole, and that I
[00:22:34] was,
[00:22:34] um, yeah. And that, uh, I talked as if I was above everybody else. And so, you know, it's like I was told, " You go, you go to the continent and you speak your language, you get your education, and all this other kind of stuff.
[00:22:51] And, you know, you're talking all of these big words that we don't understand. And when you come home, you don't talk to us. You talk down to [00:23:00] us." But you know what, sis? We know where you came from. Do you remember where you're from?" It was like, that was like another punch in the gut. I was like, "Oh." So here I am thinking that I'm a great leader.
[00:23:16] I am getting my education. I'm doing all of these things. I'm making stuff happen.
[00:23:21] Rachel Alexandria: I succeeded. I
[00:23:22] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: I succeeded. Yes, exactly
[00:23:26] Rachel Alexandria: but I actually kicked away everything that
[00:23:29] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: That makes me me. Right.
[00:23:31] Rachel Alexandria: Wow. Yeah. So you, that's what decolonizing is, is
[00:23:35] to start to grapple with the way that you have been pulled away from your culture
[00:23:41] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Absolutely. And in this process, I also, right, because it's layered, life is so layered, there's so many things happening to you all at once, right? It's like... and so George Floyd happens,
[00:23:54] Rachel Alexandria: Yeah
[00:23:54] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: all of these things started to come up, and I am married to a [00:24:00] 6'2" blonde hair, blue-eyed white guy.
[00:24:03] Rachel Alexandria: Okay
[00:24:05] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: And during that time, I looked at him and I was like, "Ugh, you are everything I want to dismantle in this world."
[00:24:14] Rachel Alexandria: Oh, no
[00:24:16] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: And there was tension. There was tension in our marriage that we've never experienced before.
[00:24:23] Rachel Alexandria: Hmm.
[00:24:24] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: And, you know, it's like, he would walk in and I would be like, " Here you are trying to colonize my space.
[00:24:31] Colonizer." Right? I would call him the colonizer. I'd
[00:24:34] call him the white guy. it was bad. we slept in separate rooms for almost a year because we just could not see eye to eye. also during that time, Moana just came out and, you know, I was like, "Whoa, right, Disney, you know, finally you did something almost right."
[00:24:53] And so, you know, and, and I was telling my grandson about, you know, "These are your [00:25:00] ancestors. Your ancestors were able to navigate the largest body of water on Earth. They were in such close relationship with the stars that they had names for every single one of them.
[00:25:12] They were in relationship with everything around them, and the people, and the divine."
[00:25:19] And so, you know, it's like he was so happy. Like, he was like, "Gma, wow, so if Moana is your people and I'm your grandson, does that make Moana my people?" And I'm like, "Yes." Right? Bringing out that pride in that eight-year-old little boy, right? He's like, "Whoa, I am cool." Well, my husband is going through HBO and he comes across Vikings, and he's, he's, like, talking about how Vikings is his people, and what they did, and how they traversed the snow, and they could all do all of these things.
[00:25:55] And, so my grandson was like, "Wait a minute. Papa, if the [00:26:00] Vikings are your people and I'm your grandson, does that make the Vikings my people?" And so, you know, here he is, like, looking at all of these things on his identity, right? The words that was coming out of my mouth was shaping my grandson's identity.
[00:26:19] Rachel Alexandria: Yeah
[00:26:20]
[00:27:07] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: And the next week he comes over, and now, you know, it's like, you know, remember I'm, in this space where my husband's the colonizer as well too. So my grandson comes over one week and, I go for give him a hug, and he just stiffens up, Rachel, like he was so scared of me. He was so scared. And I was like, "Whoa.
[00:27:30] Whoa, grandson, what's going on? What's happening?" And, you know, and he looks at me and he goes, "Gma, you said that Moana is my people because they're your people." And I'm like, "Yep." And he goes, "And Vikings is my people 'cause there's Papa's people." And I'm like, "Yes." I'm like, "Where's this coming from?" He's like, "Well, Gma, I hear you say things about people that look like Papa, and it's not very nice.
[00:27:56] So Gma, which part of me do you not [00:28:00] love?"
[00:28:00] Rachel Alexandria: He literally said that?
[00:28:03] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: And my husband was
[00:28:05] Rachel Alexandria: Oh,
[00:28:05] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: listening.
[00:28:06] Rachel Alexandria: no.
[00:28:08] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Yeah.
[00:28:08] Rachel Alexandria: Yeah.
[00:28:09] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Yeah, my husband heard everything, and he was like, " This is what's gonna take for her to break," right? And it did, and it broke me. And it broke me so hard to where it's like as I was picking up the pieces, I needed to reflect on every single shard that I was picking up and asking myself, "If my words is having my grandson figure out what his identity is, what the fuck am I doing?
[00:28:38] Rachel Alexandria: Yeah.
[00:28:39] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: What am I doing?" And this is not aloha. This is not aloha. And so in order to get to that place, that's where I needed to ask questions. I needed to inquire. I needed to be curious about everything that was going on. And, you know, having [00:29:00] these kinds of conversations with my husband, who walks around as this guy that he can't help who he is.
[00:29:07] That's who he was born to be, right? He's this white guy. And then I needed to listen. I needed to listen to him.
[00:29:13] And I... There were times where it's like, and I found in myself, right, I found in myself where he would say something, and I would be like, I would react, and I would have all of these things that I wanted to say because I wanted to be right.
[00:29:29] And so, you know, I wasn't really, I wasn't really listening. So I had to get to this place where I had to be like, take a breath, regulate. That's, you know, that's where the HeartMath came in, right? I am a certified trainer with the Institute of HeartMath, right? Building people's capacity to be resilient. And in order to do that, I needed to do that for myself.
[00:29:57] Rachel Alexandria: Physician heal thyself, right? That's, I [00:30:00] mean, that's how you know a great therapist or coach or consultant is somebody who does their own work, because none of us are immune. All of us have stuff that shows up for us, So when you say regulate, I'm gonna define that a little bit for the audience 'cause, again, you and I are in the industry, so we, we have our jargon and we know what we're talking about.
[00:30:24] I actually trained one of my clients to do this. I had him get a friend to, like, co-regulate with, where they would d- hold each other and then, like, do the breathing with each other. my definition, like, uh, for a layperson, and please feel free to add or correct me since you are a specialist specifically in this, is, to be able to work with your, your brain, your heart, and your nervous system to get from a state of being dysregulated or, like, you know when your heart rate [00:31:00] raises, you're sweaty or you're flush, you're not thinking as well, you're in a, some kind of brain fog or panic or manicness, high anxiety.
[00:31:11] None of those are regulated states. Those are dysregulated states where your nervous system is saying there's a threat and so we need to be on emergency systems, which means fight, flight, fawn, or freeze. None of which are a place of thoughtfulness, discernment, or diplomacy where we can make really healthy, nuanced, well-considered decisions.
[00:31:39] So to be regulated is to get your body back into a place where it no longer feels there's an emergency and can be more calm.
[00:31:48] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Absolutely. And you've gotta live that as well too. You've gotta mirror it, right? Because the energies, the frequencies are in sync, especially when you're in close proximity of each other. And so, you know, it's like [00:32:00] a, a dysregulated nervous system is allowing all of that cortisol to just dump into your bloodstream.
[00:32:06] And when that happens, cognitive dissonance where it's like you wanna just protect, right? You wanna fight, you wanna stand for it. It's like no, nothing is going to get past you at all. And that's dis- yes, absolutely dysregulated.
[00:32:22] Rachel Alexandria: Yeah. I recently had to, support my spouse in, during a, a group function. We had a weekend retreat with some friends, and some things happened, and he got pretty upset, and it needed to be, it needed to be resolved in the group. And usually he gets to take time when he's upset and kind of go and regulate himself and get into a place where he can have a conversation, but we did not have time.
[00:32:50] So I was like, "Okay, let me come up," and me st- like, I had to stay regulated, right? ' Cause I can have my thoughts of what should happen and [00:33:00] how things need to be resolved and who should say what and who should have done what, and it doesn't matter. Like, I can't control what happens, but I can be a regulated presence in the middle of other people being upset and dysregulated.
[00:33:15] That's what I can do. And I believe what heart math shows us is that a regulated heart, the, the frequency broadcasts and can help others to get regulated. Is that accurate?
[00:33:29] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, it's like had the opportunity to actually practice this, right? It's like I practice this as being a oral historian for the National Native American Boarding School Healing Coalition. And so as an oral historian, I would be listening to stories of elders who experienced the Indian boarding schools.
[00:33:51] And, you know, it's like some of those stories, they will activate you,
[00:33:56] Rachel Alexandria: They'll
[00:33:56] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: right? They will, they definitely will. [00:34:00] And, you know, it's like in the beginning, you know, it's like you can get, you can get all of this knowledge, right? It's like getting all of these certificates and everything like that.
[00:34:10] That's just knowledge. That's, you know, it's like you have not embodied it until you actually experience it. And so it's like,
[00:34:19] Rachel Alexandria: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm
[00:34:20] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: so the first time, one of my first stories, as a oral historian, I fell into the person's story. And when I fell into the story, I started crying. I became dysregulated. And, you know, and it's like, I'm like bawling where she stopped talking about her story.
[00:34:43] So in that, ugh, in that moment, yep, she had to take care of me.
[00:34:48] She was worried about me. And it, that whole interview no longer became about her, it became about me, right? And I was like, "Oh, okay. Hold up here. Oh, wait a [00:35:00] minute. This is what it means." And so now when, you know, it's like when they come in and they sit with me in the interview room, you can see and you can feel where there's tension, right?
[00:35:13] Their shoulders are up, their hands are stiff. And so without even saying anything, right, I would just sit there for a moment and I would breathe And as I'm breathing, taking deep breaths, their breath becomes in sync with mine
[00:35:29] Rachel Alexandria: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:30] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: And then that's when I know that we can start, right? And so, yeah, it's a imagine when we're having these kinds of conversations, right? Especially, you know, the, the complexity of some of the conversations we can have. I think coming t- with, to this place of heart, and understanding the depth of it on what it takes is, will allow us to adapt, right?
[00:35:59] The [00:36:00] final A in Aloha. Adapt our way of thinking, adapt our process, adapt to what's going on. You know, it's like just... Yeah, so that's how Aloha started, was because of everything that was going on in this world, what I was going through, the pain that I've caused, and taking accountability for it, which, taking accountability for things, it's not easy to do.
[00:36:24] Rachel Alexandria: Hmm. It is
[00:36:25] not for the faint of heart. It is a brave thing to do.
[00:36:29] yeah.
[00:36:29] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: And it's, you know, and oof, that's hard.
[00:36:33] Rachel Alexandria: It is, but you know, that's what, true leadership requires. You know? You get to take some level of credit for the good things, and you have to also take credit for the mistakes,
[00:36:45] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Right. Exactly.
[00:36:47] And also knowing that you are not in this canoe alone. You know? It's like whenever I think about leadership, I think of, wayfinding, right? Is that here we are, the [00:37:00] organization, the metaphor for the canoe is the organize- you know, the organization. Everyone comes in every single day.
[00:37:06] They board the canoe, and it's like if you don't know who's in the canoe and you live in these silos of all of these different departments and everything like that, how do you know you can trust each other?
[00:37:18] Rachel Alexandria: Everybody's rowing at different paces in different directions. Yeah.
[00:37:24] Okay,
[00:37:24] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: as a leader is like, "Whoa, where are we going?
[00:37:27] This is the direction."
[00:37:30] Rachel Alexandria: I know you have so much more wisdom to share, and I am gonna, I'm gonna bring us to your balance sheet of burdens, if that's okay. 'Cause at the top, no one sees your balance sheet of burdens, but people listening to this interview probably know. They can just tell from listening to you that you have some great wisdom to share from your background.
[00:37:54] So I'm gonna ask you three things from that private ledger. One is, [00:38:00] what's one cost you paid for being in leadership?
[00:38:05] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Good question. Something that I've actually been reflecting on, The past couple of months, you know, it's like, thinking about what it means to be a leader. And I feel that the traditional or what people see as leaders, today, or maybe the perspective of what leadership is, it took a toll on me, right?
[00:38:29] Emotionally, relationally, physically. Because for years I spent years believing That my capacity to carry something meant that I was responsible for everything that happened because I was carrying it,
[00:38:46] right?
[00:38:50] Rachel Alexandria: Yeah, the I, I'm responsible for the world thing. Yeah. that'll wear you out
[00:38:56] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Yeah. exactly. You know? But there's a [00:39:00] different type of leadership that doesn't power over people, but empower people, right? And they, they are with people. And, you know, it's like for the first time,
[00:39:12]
[00:39:12]
[00:39:13] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: I do have to give a shout-out to NABSC, right?
[00:39:16] To the organization that I am working for right now, National Native American Boarding School Healing Coalition. This is the first time in my career that I know what a true leader looks like
[00:39:29] Rachel Alexandria: Oh, wow
[00:39:30] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: I'm able to work with every single person that I work with every day when I go into work or we have meetings or whatever it is, 'cause we're all remote.
[00:39:41] But whenever we are together, it feels like coming home. That's what it feels like. we also know what the goal is, right? The goal is to bring truth, justice, and healing. And every single one of us, we also understand what it means, like you were saying earlier, [00:40:00] to do the work. So when you have everyone doing the work so then that way we can move forward, everyone understands and knows the direction, and we have a leader there that is not just standing above us, but she's rowing the canoe with us as well too,
[00:40:17] right?
[00:40:18] It's like Everything is in sync, and we're able to provide the space for healing to occur because of every single person that is part of that organization. Every organization should look at NABS, and they should use NABS as the model for how they would want their organizations to look because it's always about relationship first.
[00:40:42] It's about relationship first. And, you know, it's like we have leaders that when there are things going on around our country, in our world, and we're in a meeting, they will pretty much say, " We're not gonna play around here. We know that what's affecting you outside is [00:41:00] affecting you here." They don't ask you to leave your problems at the door.
[00:41:03] They're like, "Hey, how can I help you with this?" Right? It's like if there's somebody that is feeling sick or not feeling well, they're not gonna have the EAP. "Here's your employee, employee assistant program. Good luck with it." Right? That's not the way it is. It's like they genuinely care for one another.
[00:41:22] Genuinely care for one another. And yeah, it's the first time that I feel that.
[00:41:29] Rachel Alexandria: I am so glad that you get to have that experience because you get to even more emulate that. I love that. Okay, tell us one invisible asset that you didn't realize you had at the time
[00:41:41] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: My ability to listen.
[00:41:43] Rachel Alexandria: Hmm.
[00:41:44] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: ability to observe. Not only listen to people, but to observe patterns as well, too. Yeah
[00:41:51] Rachel Alexandria: It is so much more valuable than people realize.
[00:41:54] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Oh my
[00:41:54] gosh.
[00:41:55] Rachel Alexandria: And tell us one investment you're making now for your wellbeing or [00:42:00] your soul
[00:42:01] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: you know, like I said earlier, right? Is, being intentional where my energy goes. that is a big investment. I feel that, you know, boundaries are aloha, right? They, you know, it's like that is something that people should have and to be respected as well, too.
[00:42:21] Rachel Alexandria: Mm-hmm.
[00:42:22] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: and I think I'm, I'm going to, or, or actually working on investing more in being present
[00:42:30] Rachel Alexandria: Mm.
[00:42:30] What does that look like?
[00:42:32] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Sometimes I can find myself even in my close relationships, right? Is that when I'm at the dinner table or I'm around people, I'm like
[00:42:41] Rachel Alexandria: Oh, on the phone. Yeah, for those who can't, who can't
[00:42:44] see what's going on.
[00:42:45] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: right, yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm on the phone. Wait, what? Or, you know, meeting up, with a person and, you know, not, being there, being somewhere else. Or even sometimes, like when I'm together with [00:43:00] people and then we start talking about another person that's not there, I'm like, "Whoa, that person got a lot of our time."
[00:43:09] It's like, we didn't even have time with each other.
[00:43:15] Rachel Alexandria: I hear you. I try to hold to the thing that I, I learned in graduate school for therapy, which is I will only talk about other people in the negative when I am processing what I need to do to get right with the situation That's what I try to do. Not always perfect at it, but that's my goal
[00:43:34] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Right. Exactly.
[00:43:36] Rachel Alexandria: Okay, I have two more questions before we wrap up.
[00:43:40] one is, what do you wish more leaders felt permission to say out loud?
[00:43:46] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: I don't know. I don't know, but let me find out.
[00:43:50] Rachel Alexandria: Yep. Yep. Yep. I, that is such, that is such a frequent answer, and it makes me think that leaders [00:44:00] across everywhere are doing a really poor job at allowing themselves to be vulnerable enough to say, "I don't know all the answers."
[00:44:10] Like, yeah, it's, it's really
[00:44:13] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: an idea, they have an idea that being a leader means that you know everything,
[00:44:20] right?
[00:44:20] Rachel Alexandria: and to admit that you don't means you're not powerful or you're not to be respected or whatever.
[00:44:26] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Exactly.
[00:44:28] Rachel Alexandria: People respect honesty. People respect when something's real.
[00:44:33] So I confirm that, it's okay if you're out there leading to say, "I don't know that right now, but I'm gonna go find out," or, "We're gonna figure it out together,"
[00:44:42] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Exactly. Exactly. What are your thoughts on it, right? It's like, let's talk about it, right? Let's, let's, let's co-create a solution here.
[00:44:51] Rachel Alexandria: There you
[00:44:52] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: That's what a leader does, right? A leader is like, "All right, I get this. how do we make this happen?" Right? It's like knowing that there is [00:45:00] knowledge and power within the whole, and not just one part, right?
[00:45:05] So it's like it takes, every single person in that canoe in order to go where you wanna go
[00:45:12] Rachel Alexandria: Okay. Before I ask you the last question, I would love to know if people wanna hear more about Aloha and wayfinding and you, how would they get in touch with you? How would they learn more?
[00:45:27] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Well, they can, they can go onto my website, which is Co3, C-O number 3, consulting.net, or they can, contact me at gerri@co3consulting.net. I'm on LinkedIn as well too, Gerri Ebalaroza-Tunnell, and yeah, the socials
[00:45:45] Rachel Alexandria: The socials. All right. Well, we'll put those in the show notes so people have them.
[00:45:49] Yeah. and the last question is the time machine question. So we open the doors of the time machine. Whoosh. If you could go back in [00:46:00] time, what would you say to yourself earlier in your career?
[00:46:05] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: I like that question because it really gives me the opportunity to, reflect on the younger me, the me that was making all of these decisions and saying yes to everything and wanting to be the best and, you know, it's like causing harm in the midst of it as well, too, right? I think I would tell her that You don't have to earn your worth by how much you can carry you're worthy, right? Not every problem is yours to solve. Not every person is yours to save. And not every room deserves your energy or your aloha. So
[00:46:46] Rachel Alexandria: That, yep, that's it. We're gonna cut it and print it. That is excellent advice, not just for the younger Dr. G, but for all of us.
[00:46:56] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Mm-hmm
[00:46:57] Rachel Alexandria: thank you so much for coming back on the show[00:47:00]
[00:47:00] Dr. Gerry Ebalaroza-Tunnell: Absolutely, Rachel. Thank you so much for having me. Aloha, everyone
[00:47:05] Rachel Alexandria: Thanks for taking a moment to tune in with me today, and thanks for listening to Lonely at the Top. If this conversation resonated today, I hope you'll give yourself permission to pause and check in with what you might be carrying, because you don't have to hold it all alone. I am an executive coach who works with spiritually inclined powerhouses, especially those who wanna clean up difficult relationships and other secret messes.
[00:47:33] You can learn more at rachealexandria.com. If you know another leader who needs to hear this show, please send it their way. Because yeah, it's lonely at the top, but it doesn't have to stay that way.
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