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Paul Hunter talks to star of stage and screen, Lisa Hammond about the pressure of completing crafting projects, the representation of disability in theatre and tv, and bizarre fan gifts.
Told by an Idiot's Artistic Director Paul Hunter in free-flowing conversation with friends and colleagues from the theatre industry, delving into what made them the people they are today.
Paul: Hello and welcome to Regrets,
I've had a few.
I'm Paul Hunter,
Artistic Director of Told by an Idiot,
and this is a podcast where I talk
to friends and colleagues,
delving into what made them
the person that they are today.
Hello and welcome to this Christmas
edition of Regrets,
I've Had A Few and my guest is
one of the funniest actors I have ever
worked with,
had the pleasure of working with.
She's also one of the most honest
and one of the most inspirational.
Star of stage and screen,
welcome, Lisa Hammond.
Lisa: Thanks, Paul.
Funny as well.
You set me a high bar there now.
Paul: Well, I did, I did
Lisa: Thanks for that.
Paul: But you don't have to be
funny for the next 25 minutes
Lisa: and also just have to say, Paul,
you can't say inspirational to a cripple.
Paul: Ahhhhhh
Lisa: You can't do that!
You can say inspirational as
my personality. My shining personality
Paul: That's exactly what I meant, Lisa.
Lisa: That's exactly what I thought
Paul: Exactly.
So we're off to a flying start.
Now, we were joking before we started
saying we've had to contrive this podcast
in order to see each other,
which is kind of true.
But if you don't mind,
I'm not going to dwell on the last 18
months and how we all been and all
of that, I'm going to jump
right in with a festive opener.
Lisa: OK
Paul:Can you think of one gift that you were
given as a child at Christmas
that you absolutely loved?
Lisa: I'm sure there were very many but what
pops straight into my mind is the garage
because I was really obsessed with cars.
And so I got this, like,
multi storey garage that had, like,
a little pulley on the side to get to lift
the cars up to the top and then
the ramp would go down.
I loved it.
I absolutely loved that gift.
Paul: And...
Lisa: Yeah.
Lisa: I was a bit of a tomboy probably.
Paul: And can you think of something
that you regret being given?
Lisa: Something I regret being given?
Paul: Or were they always top class gifts
Lisa: as a kid, probably not regret,
but people that, I think I went,
well, I'm quite a crafter.
I love craft things.
Right.
So I think a lot of people at some point,
probably when I was in my 20s,
would give me a lot of gifts, like
craft making kits and stuff like that.
And not only did I have tonnes of them,
but they would sit on my shelf and would
produce such an amount of stress in me
that I couldn't do them.
So the thing that was supposed to be
the joyous thing, which is like sitting
down, doing a nice little crafty thing
became in my eye line, seeing them all
to be done, almost like your inbox.
It became like my craft inbox.
And I used to be like, instead of it,
so I just had to either throw them away,
re gift them or put them somewhere
that wasn't in my eye line
just because it would stress me out,
like the nice thing was
really stressing me out.
Paul: I think that's brilliant.
I also remember on the subject of people
maybe trying to give something
that someone really wants,
but it's not quite right.
A friend of mine once said when he was
a little boy, he was desperate
to have a Leeds United football top.
And I think maybe times were a bit hard.
So on Christmas morning,
he opened it and it was a Leeds United
football, but his gran knitted one
with the badge and everything. Which -
Lisa: Try going to school with that on mate.
Paul: Exactly. I thought,
what a terrible situation.
Lisa; Bless him
Paul: Well, we'll come back to Christmas because
we had a very special Christmas together
when we did Beauty and the Beast.
So we'll touch on that a bit later.
But as I was preparing,
I realised you're the second guest I've
had, who has been
in the cast of Grange Hill?
Lisa: Yes, of course.
Paul: So I chatted to Ayesha one thing that
Lisa: Ayesha yeah
Paul: You weren't the same time,
though, were you?
Lisa: No, I think she's younger than me.
I think we possibly might have crossed
over a bit, but, yeah,
she's younger than me.
So I was like before her i think yeah.
Paul: I think we've obviously
talked about this before.
But one thing I wanted to ask you,
which is kind of something Ayesha said,
she said something interesting where she
said the fictitious school of Grange Hill
was actually more like her real
life than the school she went to.
And I just wondered,
what was that like for you in terms
of what your real school like and how
that compared to Grange Hill?
Lisa: Yes.
I remember it being such a kind
of big part of my childhood.
I think it filmed about six months
of the year, if I remember.
So for that block of six months.
Yeah.
It was like because you
were long filming days.
You were there 10 hours a day or 11
hours a day, and you had your tutoring.
Obviously everyone hated that bit
because it's like, you can't wait.
You were sitting in the two rooms,
like trying to do,
and also because everyone's in different
schools, obviously
you were all responsible partly to bring
your own work from your own school in.
But of course, no one really did it.
And everyone was like, just concentrating
on the easy bits of their school work.
And I used to have the extra thing.
I mean, it was true as well,
but I probably did use it a bit.
There was a room that was attached to the
tutoring room,
which it was like a dressing room, like
an adult dressing room with a bed in it.
And like, every time I wanted to get out
of the school work,
I just said, I'm really tired.
I'm really getting tired now.
Sometimes I was actually tired in pain,
but sometimes I was just like,
I can't be arsed with this.
I'll just go in a dark room
by myself and have a nap.
Paul: And how old were you when you started?
Lisa: I was 13 -
Paul: Wow
Lisa: when I started.
Lisa: So, yeah,
the script writers and producers were
looking for a disabled character,
and they did, like, a kind of tour of
special needs schools in London.
They did assemblies and stuff in all these
different schools around the country
and showed an episode of Grange Hill,
and they were looking for
they were doing the rounds of the acting
kind of vibe of young
people schools as well.
But I don't think there were many Crips
in that context, so they had
to kind of widen it out.
I'd never even done
a drama lesson in my life.
Paul: Wow.
Lisa: That wasn't a part of my schooling.
But they showed the episode
in the assembly, and I was really
mouthy about how awful the episode was.
And I was, like, really
insulting them, basically.
So I got an audition,
which I didn't even know what that was.
I didn't even know what an audition was,
and so learn the lines, blah, blah, blah.
Anyway, got down to, like,
five or 15 people, and they cast the
character that they wanted in the show,
which was the disabled child.
They cast Francesca Martinez as
that character, but they
wrote me a character as well.
So they got two for the price of one.
Paul: And was that character kind of based
on you from what they'd seen of you,
or was it completely different?
Lisa: Yes i mean she was quite she was quite I mean,
Grange Hill.
There wasn't a massive kind of different
context of what they wanted.
They wanted you to be a normal school kid.
So, yeah
they kind of cast me as that, really.
But I remember one of my first scenes.
I think it might have
been my first ever scene.
My character Denny, had to play the drums.
She was in, like, the school band.
And, of course, down my local youth club
in my real life, the Hole in the Wall.
Paul: Is that what it's called
the Hole in the Wall?
Lisa: It was called The Hole in the Wall.
I used to love that place.
It's gone now, gentrification.
Paul: Yeah, of course.
Ran by you -
Lisa: living in Old Street all changed now,
I remember I had a little bit of drumming
skills, but very limited, very limited.
And they said I was playing the drums,
but the thing was, is that I couldn't
play the drums and talk at the same time.
So I was like, going and you're,
you're out of the band Jacko
I couldn't get it right!
But I remember even then getting it
totally wrong and all of that, looking
around me and being on set and thinking,
okay, this is what I'm going
to do for the rest of my life.
Paul: Wow.
Lisa: I just completely went bang.
That's it.
Paul: That's amazing.
That sort of struck you in that moment.
Lisa: Yeah. I was like, this is
my forever passion now
Paul: That is amazing.
And then, am I right that once you came
out of that, was that when you started...
when did you first do Theatre?
Lisa: I came out of Grange Hill
when I was 15, nearly 16.
And then the thing is,
I've got such a bad memory.
I'm really going to try now 15/16.
Then I was too kind of late.
I felt like I didn't really want to go
to - I actually redo
my GCSE for a few reasons.
I was in a special needs school
that didn't have very much facilities.
I won't go into that because
I'll depress you.
But basically, I went to College
and did a BTEC for a couple of years.
And then I was on the cusp of kind
of thinking about applying for drama
schools, that proper drama schools,
three year course thing.
And I sort of was getting
bits and pieces already.
And I had an agent and I was getting bits
and pieces, and I thought, Well,
why would I be going to college or
to a drama school to do
the thing I'm already doing?
I was doing stuff on the side,
like courses on the side,
about different things,
different parts of acting and stuff.
So I just kind of thought,
all right, I'll just give it a go.
And then that's when I sort of started
to kind of hang around
with a few people from Graeae.
And then I got my first Theatre job,
which was Fittings: The Last Freak Show.
I think it was my early 19.
And then my second ever theatre
show was with you guys.
Paul: Oh, yeah, that's right.
Lisa: Shoot Me In The Heart.
Paul: I remember that
Lisa: When I was 20 yeah.
Paul: That's right.
21 years ago.
And I remember vividly that because when
Hayley and I decided that we
wanted an actor like you,
and then we didn't know
necessarily how to go about that.
And then
maybe my memory says you might
have been recommended by Graeae.
Maybe we spoke to Jenny.
Lisa: I cant remember how
Paul: I don't know how
the link, must have been a link.
Lisa: Well, someone had seen me. I feel like -
Paul: Someone recommended you to us,
that we should see you for sure.
And then you came to Battersea
Arts Centre to see us.
And I remember that meeting
vividly because
it doesn't happen very often when you're
meeting or trying to cast something.
But both Hayley and I were in complete
unison in that moment for the story
and the character of Carlotta.
It was just like, Well, it has to be her.
Then we thought, oh, my God.
I hope she says, yes.
Lisa: Well, I remember Paul that day.
I was so knackered.
I was like, I don't know if I can be
arsed to go to this casting, whatever.
But luckily, I got my ass in that cab
and all I remember because it was
a workshop, if you remember, obviously,
which is very Idiot,
instead of like you know,
your 20 minutes talky talky.
And I remember doing the exercise with you
where we had to sing a song while dying
down the wall.
And I was like, this is [bleep] amazing.
Sorry. Am I allowed to swear?
You can beep that out.
Paul: Don't worry, No, no.
I think that was the other
thing that struck us was how
brilliant you took to the ideas
of what we were trying to do
and what we were going to try
and experiment with, I suppose.
And then I look back, actually,
at that company of eight of you, I think.
Was it a cast of eight?
Lisa: Yeah.
Paul: It was quite a big show for us.
It was our first bigger show that we'd
done, before that we'd always done three
handers, and then suddenly and it was
a big show because me and Hayley obviously
weren't in it and loads of people went,
oh, that won't work if you're not in it.
Lisa: Well, because you've become
defined by your skills.
Paul: Exactly.
I remember me and Hayley going.
Surely it can't just be about us two.
We must have created something
that doesn't hinge on just us.
Lisa: It's like your first experiment.
Paul: Yeah it was!
Lisa: Like widening it up
Paul: Well,
and also all of that extraordinary cast.
Well, of course, two casts as well,
because I vividly remember, of course,
not only making it with such a joy
with you and your kind of,
not just your kind of embracing
of everything and the physicality,
but your kind of subtlety.
I remember a moment when Iain Johnson
brilliantly wrote the piano piece
that Carlotta plays in the story
that sort of stuns the village,
and we were trying to find
a way, how do we do this?
And then I remember Iain's
visit was so beautiful.
We just got a point where you just simply
rested, you picked your hands up and you
simply rested them on your own knees.
And that was the concept.
And it was so simple and really moving.
And I thought your instinct
around stuff was so strong,
even if it felt somehow new,
you had a real feel for it.
I suppose
Lisa: I loved every minute of it.
I was finding Told by an Idiot
and working for you guys at that time, I mean,
I'm not underestimating it
completely changed my life.
At that point.
It was a whole new world, like a split
in the Matrix went [snap noise] and just opened up.
And I was like, oh, we can do things
like this and we can be playful.
And we can smash, like, comic up
against tragic and dark and light.
And I came home every night
from rehearsing that and performing that,
like on cloud nine.
Paul: Well,
it showed in your performance.
One thing, actually, I remember
not enjoying so much was a year later,
you'll remember you all went off
to Mexico, took the show there,
and Hayley had to step in because Lesley,
brilliant Lesley couldn't do it.
And Tristan stepped in for the brilliant
Enzo and sadly and rather frustratingly,
by the time you went to Mexico,
we had opened a new show in England.
So I remember speaking to you all
on the phone in Mexico City while I was in Weymouth in a pizzeria in Weymouth thinking, how is this happening?
It's my own company.
No offence to Weymouth
any Weymouth listeners.
Lisa: Yeah.
It was funny because I've still got
the old school, obviously non digital
camera, the actual photograph of us
on the phone box with you from Mexico.
And I think it's Annie in the background
or someone's in the background holding
like one of the Mexican puppets.
I'll have to dig it out for you Paul
Paul: Yes, I'd like to see that. And then,
of course, obviously from that,
I think partly also, I think from the time
when Hayley played your mother
in that show, the brief time
Lisa: Yeah
Paul: In Mexico and France,
it was clearly a real chemistry there.
And then Hayley said,
I'd love to do something with Lisa.
And I think it's a brilliant idea.
And you remember, we scratched
some work with just the two of you
Lisa: At the Mime Festival wasn't it yeah
Paul: And then we kind of realised
maybe we needed more people.
And it emerged into one
of my favourite shows of ours.
A Little Fantasy.
Lisa: Yeah.
Great show.
Paul: With a brilliant team.
You and Hayley and Ged and Rachel
and the sublime Jane Guernier.
I only have to think about Jane doing
that scene from that Jimmy Cagney film.
Lisa: Hysterical hysterical
Paul: And it's still one of the funniest things.
But your relationship with Hayley
was so tender and so touching,
but also
Frank McConnell teaching the two
of you that tap routine.
Lisa; Oh, my God.
Yeah.
Because it was like the set was like
bleachers, wasn't it,
like Wooden Bleachers and our feet,
our actual feet were hidden behind.
Paul: Thats right
And he recorded himself
doing it, didn't he?
Lisa: Yes.
So we had the sound
of the really fast tapping.
And then me and Hayley
developed this kind of, like
real kind of one-up-man-ship between us.
Friendly, obviously, one-up-man-ship.
And we've made this thing every night we'd
go, anything you can do, I can do less of
so instead of mimicking,
this tap in our bodies.
We just did it in like our eyes.
Paul: It was amazing.
Lisa: Like yeah it was a great show
Paul: But also you mentioned this,
and of course, it's not something you
dwell on, but you touched on it earlier.
It was a very physical
show for you as well,
Lisa: Very physical, when I look back on that -
Paul: much more physical than 'Shoot Me'. For your
role in that is really demanding.
And I remember it was difficult,
sometimes physically for you.
It was a really hard show.
And I thought, wow, you put yourself
through that night after night.
Lisa: Ged used to have to carry me didn't he?
As soon as I exited the stage and got
off the out of the door, literally
scooped me up and carry
me to the dressing room -
it was so good that show.
I so enjoyed it.
And I had to put my bucket - head
in the bucket of water, remember?
And do the Timothée flick
of my hair do you remember?
I was not only in agony, but I was
absolutely soaked like a drowned rat.
I loved that.
And also, do you remember that bit
where when we had the kids in?
I was talking to someone,
a friend of mine the other day about this
because as we entered the stage for about
four minutes, there was like
this sequence of coughing.
Paul: Oh yeah!
Lisa: Like there was kind of almost
like a musicality to our coughs.
And I remember coming on and it was like
one of the shows that was like
fiver a ticket kind of vibe.
And we came on and like, about 30,
40 seconds in, there was girls sitting
right in the front row and, you know,
like how people think they're
looking at the TV, not the theatre.
And obviously we can hear them,
but they don't think, this little girl,
this girl went, what is going
on? Everybody is coughing.
She was like really perplexed. Like what the hell!
Paul: I do remember that now, obviously
you've done many shows with us.
And as it's Christmas,
I have to talk about Beauty and the Beast
at the Lyric, which was such a joy
to make again a wonderful company.
But I also remember, I hope you
don't mind me bringing this up.
I remember because obviously you have such
an extraordinary energy when
you're in a rehearsal room.
But I remember I think we're about to go
into tech and we bumped into each other
walking across from the tube and coming
out of Pret A Manger or something.
You didn't seem your normal self.
And I said, You alright?
And you said
something like my memory says something -
I'm just a bit worried about how kids
might respond to me being Beauty,
something like that.
And I remember going in that moment,
going, I've just got
to be completely honest.
And I mean, I have no idea
how they're going to respond.
I don't know.
What I do know is that you're a brilliant
Beauty and there's, thats what I mean
about honest.
There's something so honest about how you
play that role that my hunch
is they will love you.
I really admire the fact that you kind
of articulated that you said, actually,
no, I am having doubts
because sometimes you think, oh, no,
I better not say it or as an actor,
you think I better go
on with it. And actually -
Lisa: That's testament to the room that you run
as well
to be open and honest about you know -
we had conversations open
conversations about I half used a wheelchair, because
I get chronic pain and fatigue,
because that's why I use a chair.
But I also am four foot one.
There's the kind of, oh, she's a dwarf.
But also the invisibility thing about
the pain is hard to kind of express.
So I sometimes use a wheelchair
and sometimes don't.
And in that show
because of where I was at,
I knew and because it was a long run,
long time, big stage, big company.
All of that, I knew that I would have
to use my chair sometimes
and not my chair others.
And I remember us having a very brutal
conversation about when to introduce
the chair, when I do the scene
in the chair and when I don't and what
that says about the story
and what it doesn't.
Paul: I also remember as a result
of that conversation like you saying,
look, I'm going to have
to use the chair in the show.
That's fine.
And you're right.
But also, as a result,
it resulted in two of my favourite moments
in any Idiot show, one of which where
the brilliant Naomi Wilkinson designed.
Oh, no, it wasn't Naomi was it was
Michael Vale, Michael's first show,
and you had to follow The nightingale
to The Beast's house in your wheelchair.
And we designed a nightingale that was on
a wire and attached to your head.
And I thought that was brilliant.
But the key moment for me, I remember
thinking, we have to find something like
the equivalent in the Disney film, where
the Beast and Beauty share something.
And we tried to find what that was.
And your chair was on stage.
So I invited Leo the Beast,
who was in one reality 300 years earlier
to explore this thing,
this object. This electric thing
And then you brilliantly came
in and caught him in the chair and he went to get out and you said, no, it's all right.
I'll show you how it works.
And you teaching The Beast when it was
in manual and when it was electric,
beautiful, so funny,
but really tender as well.
Lisa: It brought them together didn't it?
Paul: Yeah!
Lisa: - In that moment.
Lisa: I remember having slight concerns about
that being a bit sentimental,
but I really trusted,
because I know you and the company are not
sentimental,
and you have quite a keen eye on that.
I kind of was able to kind of let myself
trust that that was funny or trust
that that was a nice moment because I did
have a little bit like, oh,
is that really weird or is that too, like,
wow. But you were like no no no, no, it's in, it's in.
Paul: I knew that, I knew that
Paul: And it is a joy doing Christmas shows.
They are special things.
Lisa: Yeah.
I loved working at Christmas because it
meant you could just go oh I'm
working I cant get to the party, I can't buy the presents, Im working.
Paul: You can escape
And then, of course,
amidst all this brilliant theatre,
not just with us, but with the brilliant
Improbable and other companies,
you found yourself in one of Britain's
biggest TV shows that must
have been extraordinary.
When you first started that job,
it must have been like.
Lisa: I mean - theatre has been a huge part
of my life, and namely,
with Told by an Idiot and Improbable as
well and other theatre shows
and companies as well.
But I've always done TV on the side
over my career.
But that was the first kind of, well,
not only the most regular because
I was on it for four years.
Paul: Four years. Wow.
Lisa: Four. Yeah.
And then, like, the institution that is
East Enders is so kind of huge, isn't it?
Paul: Yes
Lisa: It was incredibly intimidating
going in to something like that.
And everyone, once you get to kind
of settle down in it, you realise that.
Oh, okay.
Because it's like a massive wheel turning
constantly because they've got so much
content to get out and people are busy.
So when you're new, you arrive and you're
like, I don't even know where the toilet
is and then you get buddied up
with someone and then it's okay.
But, yeah, it's a whole different level
and people treat you very differently.
Paul: Did you feel any kind of responsibility
going into a show like that,
or were you able to kind of go, no,
it's just me playing a part
Lisa: Responsibility how - Paul?
Paul: Well, I mean, in terms of you mentioned
about the Grange Hill who wanting
to have a disabled character
Lisa: Oh like representation kind of stuff?
Paul: Yeah was that?
Lisa: Yeah, I did feel that.
And I had a lot of chats with them pre me
joining that, the show,
about how I didn't want to become kind
of a vessel for the issues,
if you see what I mean.
I didn't want to become the character
that was bringing to the table
the disabled perspective.
Let's say, obviously, I am disabled.
So my perspective includes that,
including my character.
But I didn't want to be
the sole person that storylines
revolved around that.
So, yeah, I did feel bit, the thing you
kind of get to, it's like anything you have
those fears and staying in the body
that you're in because you feel the weight
of your community and because
we're quite far behind -
quite Im underestimating ummm
Paul: Then it's going to be there anyway.
Lisa: But you do feel responsibility
to others to kind of go
well, there's not much
of us out there, still.
And so when you're in it at the pinnacle,
the forefront of representation,
you think, oh, God,
I hope I'm getting it right.
Or hope we do good.
Or I hope,
Paul: But that must be a pressure as
well to a certain extent is it?
Lisa: Yes.
It's terrifying because
it's like any minority or any outsider or
any person is trying to kind of go,
just please see me as a whole round human.
It should be the case that our
taste is what drives us.
But say, for example,
I could watch a drama with a disabled
character in it or a deaf character or
neuro divergent learning disabled
character in it and go, actually,
it's not their performance.
I don't like it's
just not my taste.
That drama is not my taste.
Or if I watch someone in a soap or if
I watch someone on a comedy series.
But unfortunately, because we are so far
behind in representations,
what happens is when there's, like,
one kind of visible person on TV or
in the theatre, you go,
they've got to do it all.
Paul: Yeah, yeah
Lisa: So you're looking at it thinking,
oh, well, they've missed a trick.
So I know I'd do it -
it's because the lack
of visibility across the board.
Really, I think.
Paul: Yeah, it's interesting.
I'm about to say something.
This is much more glib in a way, but because
Lisa: Go for it!
Paul: You were on because
you were on EastEnders.
Did you ever get any kind of offers to do
reality shows?
I'm A Celebrity
get Me Out Of Here?
I don't know, whatever
it might be or did that -
lisa: No, I, you see I'm going to now bring
your glib down to the harsh reality.
Paul: Yes.
Lisa: Which is often, for example,
right there's this thing.
So I've been offered, oh,
you'll laugh at this Paul.
I've been offered Mastermind a couple
of times, Celebrity Mastermind, which,
of course, I immediately turned down.
It's not my area,
but basically like, for example,
especially the female actors
in East Enders and in any soap,
you get these gifts,
you get gifts sent to you, right.
And usually they're like gorgeous
products, like makeup, tops,
clothes the or dresses, whatever.
The one gift
I ever got from being on East Enders
was a bunch of vitamins from a doctor.
Bone density vitamins.
It kind of encapsulates the representation
of disability doesn't it?
I was like, obviously this doctor,
very gorgeous letter,
absolutely wrote back to them was like,
that is so unbelievably sweet of you.
Whatever.
But I was like, fake,
obviously, Like going around going,
where's
my
mascara? Where's my dress? I don't want vitamins.
I just wanted to say, like,
the offers are not as readily -
Paul: no, no no
Lisa: coming to your door in the bodies
that we're in, rather than the kind of,
Paul: I'm sure I'm sure.
Lisa: - classic.
Lisa: But that did make me laugh a lot.
Paul: It makes me slightly think about
the brilliant show you made with your dear
friend Rachel, No Idea,
which I often find myself talking about it
when I'm running workshops as an example
of starting from nothing,
which you're not only starting
from nothing, you made a show about not
having anything to start
from, the very show was that.
But when you mentioned the thing about
the bone,
it did the amazing thing of being really
funny, properly funny and then quite
political in a roundabout way.
But my memory of that thing was because
those of you listeners don't
know is an amazing show,
that with Rachel where they asked people
in the street, if you were casting us
in a show, what show would it be? And
how would you cast us? And the most funny
and also shocking thing was when you ended
up on the sidelines,
not really in the show,
you got further and further away from your-
Lisa: There were two iterations of that show.
The first one was No Idea.
And then the second one that we did more
recently was called Still No Idea and
in both iterations of that theatre show
when we went out to the public and asked
them what show we could be in,
they could imagine everything for Rachel
and basically wrote me out of the show
in both, ten years apart.
Those shows were.
Paul: And the same thing
happened
Lisa: In both experiments.
The same thing happened.
Paul: That is extraordinary, extraordinary.
Lisa: People find it hard to imagine -
Paul: That's what's interesting when you go,
hard to imagine, and you kind of go,
theatre is fundamentally
about the imagination.
That's fundamentally what it is,
it's not about reality,
it's about imagining something.
Lisa: Yeah
Paul: And that is really very telling.
Lisa: Theatre is a lot more moved on,
I think, as well.
Paul: Maybe, in some ways it has has it I suppose
Lisa: In certain sectors,
I would say in theatre,
not all kind of traditional.
Paul: No, but maybe in certain, as you say,
certain places, it's become a bit more.
Lisa, I could talk to you all day and we
will talk all day, however,
we have to come to a close shortly.
What
I'd like to finish with, Lisa.
If it's all right is I'm going
to ask you eight questions.
They've all got a Christmas theme.
Lisa: Cool yeah
Paul: And you just have to respond
with the first response that you
have to these questions.
Paul: Number one.
Mince pie or Christmas pudding?
Lisa: Neither.
But Christmas pudding.
Paul: Okay. Home alone or
Muppets Christmas Carol?
Lisa: Oh, Home Alone.
Paul: What? Any version or just
the original
lisa: Original.
Paul: Champagne or Margarita?
Lisa: Margarita. Tequila!
Paul: East Enders or the Queen's speech?
Lisa: East Enders.
Paul: You had to think about
it. Giving or receiving?
Lisa: Giving.
Paul: He's behind you or oh no you didn't?
Lisa: Oh no you didn't.
Lisa: Oh no you didn't!
Paul: Merry Christmas, Everyone by Slade
or Last Christmas by WHAM?
Lisa: Merry Christmas, Everyone.
Paul: The most wonderful time of the year?
Or can't wait til January?
Lisa: Oh, can't wait til January without doubt.
Paul: Lisa, it's been an absolute joy.
Lisa: Thanks Paul
Paul: Thank you so much for coming on.
Have a lovely Christmas.
And let's see if we can at least raise
a glass exactly now or in January.
Lisa: That would be lovely. Love to all Paul
Paul: Take care.
Thanks very much, Lisa.
Bye bye.
Paul: Dear listeners, if you've enjoyed this
idiot podcast, please spread the word.