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Ever wonder why success doesn't always equal fulfillment?
Join Tim Salmans on "Powerful and Unpolished" as he challenges the status quo with this question: what if the key to fulfillment lies in recognizing and breaking free from energy-draining patterns? This podcast isn't just about success stories; it's about the unspoken challenges that high-achieving individuals face. Tim Salmans will unpack the complexities that cause frustration, offering tangible strategies to navigate personal challenges within professional landscapes while maintaining your authentic self. Subscribe now for a transformative journey - where authenticity meets success on your own terms.
Good day everyone. Welcome to another episode of Powerful and Unpolished. I'm Tim Salmans. I'm your host. You just heard that in the intro as well. I like to make sure you know who I am. Just kidding.
We are meeting today with a wonderful guest. I haven't seen her in a little while, so it's really great to see her again.
Donna Ricardo was in one of our earlier episodes. I think it was probably one of the earliest episodes, maybe a year and a half or two years ago. When I ran into Donna recently, I said I'd love to have you back on the show. So I'm going to let Donna tell you who she is and her background real quick.
So tell us, Donna, who are you?
Who am I? I'm a person who likes to make a difference for other people, and I like to do that with communication and working with them to express themselves in front of others, also known as public speaking. So that's what I work with people on.
Absolutely. And she's exceptional at coaching, guiding, training, and providing insight in that arena. I've seen her at work before and experienced it. We did a brief session a while back too. Gaining those skills is a powerful tool, especially since public speaking is considered one of the biggest fears, even before death.
That's what they say. I'd say arguably, but it's certainly up there regardless.
As you know, if you've been listening to these shows, we're going to learn about Donna and what she does professionally, but ultimately it's more about life, with a slice of business to it.
Donna and I have had this ongoing conversation around leadership. Because we have these skills and attributes of working together, I got my degree in communication, and Donna is an exceptional trainer and coach in the art of public speaking. We're going to explore what actually leads into that when it comes to leadership or lack thereof.
I'm going to kick this off with a big question, because it is a very big question, and I love it. Why are there still so many bad leaders when there is so much training in the world? What's missing? So tell us, Donna.
Here's my theory on that, based on observation. It's not based on research or statistics, but I suspect there is some. My theory is that leaders are people who are willing to lead. They're willing to take the bull by the horns. They're willing to tell people what to do. They're willing to be the ones with the pressure on them. They're willing to step up, speak up, and speak out.
I think what comes along with that quite often is a certain amount of confidence. Some would say even a degree of overconfidence. There's a sense of "I can do this. I have no question." Although some of those people might also say they have imposter syndrome.
They are the ones willing to step up and step out. What comes along with that is that confidence. They're thinking, "I've got this. I'm doing the thing. I'm speaking to people. I'm leading. I don't need anything else because I've got this."
It comes along with the territory, like you said. There are a lot of people who have opinions about leadership, but they don't step into it. They don't actually hold the space. When you have someone who steps in and holds the space, there's at least an opportunity to admire that willingness to step up.
At the same time, is there a sense of overconfidence? Is there a sense of fooling themselves? What are the qualities of a good leader? Maybe that's the next question. What are the qualities of a good leader? It's still subjective. What's your experience of a good leader?
I think a good leader is more interested in the people they lead than in themselves. They're great listeners. There's still a sense of self because they're the leader, but their attention isn't on themselves or their agenda. They may have an agenda, but it's not forced on people. It's not "my way or the highway."
They listen. They find out what needs to be accomplished, what results are required, and they identify the best people around them who can help fulfill that. It's not all about them.
There's no accident we're talking about this. For me, one of the biggest attributes of any leader or impressive person is humility. They have self-awareness anchored in truth, not insecurity or others' opinions.
They consider whether the people around them are inspired or influenced. Not just results. We've been conditioned to think leadership is about results. I've known leaders for decades who create results but leave damage behind them.
Yes, they created results, but if the people they lead are demoralized, empty, or burned out, what does that say? A quality leader with humility guides, trains, and supports people, helping them match or even surpass them.
A quality leader isn't insecure about their position. If you create leaders who match or surpass you, you've empowered them and strengthened your influence.
Let me ask this. In our culture, many people in leadership positions act more like bosses or managers than true leaders. What are your thoughts?
I think it goes back to willingness. They're the ones willing to step up and take responsibility.
Leaders create other leaders. However they do it, depending on the environment, they cause others to lead. True leaders aren't threatened by people rising around them.
There's a poem, often referred to as a 2000-year-old Chinese poem on leadership:
Go to the people
Learn from them
Start with what they know
Build on what they have
But of the best leaders, when the work is done, they will say, "We have done it ourselves."
I love that. That’s excellent.
When I think about leadership, I often compare true leaders to those who simply hold the title. True leaders influence deeply.
I often think of sports. Phil Jackson, when he coached the Chicago Bulls, was a powerful leader. He influenced Michael Jordan in a way that strengthened the entire team dynamic. He later did the same with the Lakers.
He connected individuals on a deeper level, creating cohesion and performance.
Let me ask this. Is leadership about control?
Absolutely not. The only thing you control is yourself.
A leader leads by example. I go to meetings where we set up and take down tables. Even as president, I help with the setup and cleanup. I'm not going to show up last and leave early while others do the work.
A leader leads by example. They understand what it's like to be in others' shoes. If they haven't experienced it, they need to learn it.
It’s leading by example, and it’s also a powerful interaction with the energy of leadership. We live in a world that gets stuck in comparison.
People think, "I can’t relate to this person because they’re not like me." They expect leaders to share identical traits or experiences. That’s not necessary.
Sometimes shared experiences build rapport, but it’s not required. Some people discredit leaders because they don’t have the exact same background. That can cause them to miss value.
Some powerful leaders may never be recognized because the people around them weren’t ready to follow. Part of being a good leader is knowing how to be a good follower.
What are your thoughts on that?
Absolutely. I’ll give a personal example. I’m a competitive ballroom dancer. In that partnership, one leads and one follows.
The best leaders are also good followers, and the best followers are also good leaders.
In group classes, there were often more women than men, so I would take the leader role. I learned both sides. You need to understand both.
That’s a great example. In that dynamic, is there something unspoken that happens between partners?
Yes. To be a good leader or follower, you must be present. Very present. You need to be aware of the other person and respond appropriately in real time.
That makes me think about public speaking. You need to be present, but you’re also reading the audience. How do you stay aware of the audience without getting thrown off by things like people checking their phones?
If the audience starts disengaging, it’s because the speaker checked out first. It’s not about the audience. It’s about the speaker’s responsibility to create an engaging environment.
One way to do that is participation. I involve the audience. I expect participation, and I create a safe space for them to engage.
Can you give an example?
It depends on the situation, but I hold the expectation that people participate. I call on them in a supportive way that makes it safe to respond.
Let’s go deeper into your background. Did you always know you’d do this?
Not at all. When I was young, up to around age 10 or 11, I was outgoing and engaged. Then my dad had a near-fatal car accident. Something shifted in me.
I withdrew. I likely decided the world wasn’t safe. I became disconnected.
After a couple of years, I realized I didn’t like that feeling and started trying to come out of it. I thought the solution was external.
Then I became a hairdresser, which is interesting because I was terrified of people. I wouldn’t look at clients. I stood behind them or focused on their hair so I didn’t have to make eye contact.
Eventually, that became unacceptable to me. I also felt a strong urge to teach.
When I first tried teaching, it went terribly. I froze, panicked, and had to leave the stage. It was embarrassing.
Then I realized I could learn this.
That started my deeper inner journey. People often think public speaking is about what to say or how to stand, but it’s not. It’s about the inner experience.
Public speaking is an inside job.
You need to know the mechanics, but that’s not what matters most. What matters is your inner state.
Having been a performer most of my life, I can relate. When I was younger, I was acting all the time, even in everyday life. I was convincing others and myself of things that weren’t real.
Looking back, I see it clearly. I had strong self-preservation skills, but I wasn’t being authentic.
Being present allows others to connect with you.
When you talked about teaching, what was the deeper value that drew you to it?
I’ll share what I call my “woo-woo” moment.
After becoming a hairdresser and going through an intense apprenticeship, I reached a point where I wondered, “Now what?”
I would walk around New York City asking myself that question repeatedly.
One day, while walking down Madison Avenue, I heard a very clear voice in my head say, “Teach.”
I looked around. No one had said it out loud.
I asked myself, “Teach what?”
There was no immediate answer, but it was undeniable. So I decided to teach what I knew, haircutting.
That’s how it started.
Over time, I realized I wanted to give back. I had received exceptional training that most people didn’t have access to. I wanted to share that.
Eventually, teaching became part of who I am. Helping people improve, communicate better, and grow became my purpose.
That ties back to leadership. Teaching is a form of leadership. Helping others grow is essential.
It’s interesting to see someone go from being unable to connect with people to standing in front of groups and leading.
What advice would you give to people struggling with public presence or identity?
Take every opportunity to show up. Participate. Step into leadership roles. Be willing to look bad. Be willing to not be perfect.
We used to say, “Dare to suck.”
You’ll have moments where you fail. That’s part of growth. It’s not the end.
People often worry about how others perceive them, but most people move on quickly. They’re focused on their own lives.
Stay present.
What are you working toward in the next few years?
I love working with teams and groups. Recently, I’ve worked with nonprofits to help them tell their stories.
They’re good at explaining what they do, but they struggle to communicate the human impact behind it.
Stories are what make things come alive.
That’s a powerful direction. Stories have been part of human communication since ancient times.
Even now, with technology and AI, storytelling continues to evolve.
What are your thoughts on storytelling and AI?
The best stories come from personal experience. They bring things to life with details, senses, and emotion.
If someone uses AI, they still need to add themselves to it. It has to be real and authentic.
Without that, it won’t connect.
If people don’t connect to their story, AI won’t fix that. It comes down to authenticity.
I think a lot of people have been living in their own constructed stories for a long time. They present a version of themselves to the world that hides vulnerability, fear, and failure.
Because of that, people sometimes accept artificial stories more easily than real ones. They’re used to performance.
I saw a video recently of a bear attacking a baby moose while the mother fought back. It looked real at first, but something felt off. It lacked authenticity.
That’s the difference. People can sense when something isn’t real.
Maybe instead of focusing on whether something is AI or not, the real question is how present we are in our own truth.
When people open up and become vulnerable, it helps others do the same.
People think vulnerability makes them look weak, but it actually makes them human, relatable, and trustworthy.
Do you think people avoid vulnerability because they feel like they’re always on stage?
Yes. There are many layers to that.
We live in a culture that pushes everything outside of us. People stop trusting their inner experience and begin relying on external validation.
This often starts in the teenage years and continues into adulthood.
People follow the loudest voices, the strongest personalities, or the most polished appearances.
Meanwhile, those individuals might be struggling internally but won’t show it.
People want to fit in. They worry about how they look and how they’re perceived.
This disconnect can lead to internal conflict, stress, and even physical consequences.
That’s why the journey from head to heart is so important.
It’s about reconnecting with yourself.
The world today is very reactive. People respond emotionally to everything, often without questioning it.
If you’re not questioning what you hear, you risk being influenced without awareness.
It’s important to question everything, especially what you already believe.
Until you understand why you believe something, it isn’t truly yours.
Many people seek validation from others to confirm their beliefs. That need for consensus shows uncertainty.
If people questioned their beliefs deeply, they wouldn’t feel the need to convince others so strongly.
Social media amplifies this dynamic.
People who don’t know who they are can easily get lost in it.
The work is worth it. Self-awareness, growth, and truth create a more fulfilling life.
Everything around you reflects what’s happening inside you.
That’s why doing the inner work matters.
Before we wrap up, can you share a success story from someone you’ve worked with?
One client, Erin, was extremely nervous about public speaking. She wouldn’t even look for opportunities because of fear.
After working together, she learned both the practical skills and the inner work.
She started speaking in front of groups, including one with around 40 people, which is significant for a beginner.
She was still nervous, but she took action.
Preparation played a huge role in her success.
Many people think they’re prepared, but they aren’t. Real preparation builds confidence.
That’s a great example. Preparation determines whether you’re ready to succeed or fail.
The universe gives feedback. If something doesn’t go well, it’s an opportunity to adjust and grow.
Thank you for being here again.
Thank you for having me.
Where can people find you?
My business is called Red Stiletto. You can find me at donnaricardo.com.
There are speaking tips on the homepage that go beyond the basics and reflect what professional speakers learn over time.
Wonderful.
This conversation is about exploring ideas and perspectives. It’s not about having all the answers, but about asking better questions.
Hopefully, this sparked some thought and self-reflection.
Give yourself permission to be vulnerable and to grow.
It may be uncomfortable, but it’s worth it.
It’s worse to live disconnected from who you truly are.
Be who you are. It’s worth the work.