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Pull up a seat at our table, where badass women from all walks of life—fashion, beauty, design, music, philanthropy, art, and more—come together to share honest stories, serve truths, and dig into the realities of modern womanhood.
Johanna Almstead: The inspiration behind this podcast is the amazing dinners I've shared with spectacular women in my life, and the fact that some of the most transformative conversations I've ever had have happened over food and wine with my friends. As I prepare for each interview, I like to think about what I would feed them if they were actually coming to my dinner table.
Today's episode is special, because I have three guests, so I think I'm going to make something that's really easy for a bigger group. I think we're going to start with a little Italian aperitivo vibes, Aperol Spritzes, and some arancini, like the little yummy rice balls, some really good olives, and some Marcona almonds, and really good salty potato chips. I love nothing more than a cocktail and some super salty potato chips.
For dinner, I'm going to make this delicious kale and sausage pasta that I love and is always a hit. I'd serve that with some delicious Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese, some crusty bread, and a bottle of Montepulciano. For music, it would need to be a really good vibes. Maybe some Amy Winehouse, Fleetwood Mac, Erykah Badu, Lana Del Rey. Having the three of these women at my dinner table is basically an automatic party, and I'm delighted for you to get to know them, so let's dig in.
Hello everyone, and welcome to Eat My Words. I am, I'd say, giddy. I'm giddy today because we're trying something new. I have never actually had more than one guest on at a time, and today I have three. I'm hosting my first threesome. I had to say it, I had to say it. This is so exciting. So my guests today are in my mind the most beautiful and powerful illustration of the alchemy that can happen when great women get together and do great work. They are all smart, courageous, beautiful, powerful, hilarious, and capable in their own rights and as partners that all just gets magnified. They work and lead with empathy, enthusiasm, deep love, and no bullshit. They are the partners of SHO+CO, which is a bi-coastal fashion, lifestyle, and entertainment agency that specializes in celebrity and influencer casting and integration for global brands. Sounds very important.
Collectively, they've worked with some of the world's largest brands and celebrities, and if I were to go into each of their individual bios, we would be here for 17 days. So they each have extensive experience in the celebrity fashion and medium landscape and are truly, and I can say this from first-hand experience, the best at what they do. Two of them are mothers. One of them is an ultimate fairy godmother extraordinaire. They are activists, they are friends, and they are fiercely loyal and exceptional human beings. As if that weren't enough, they're also co-founders and partners in a new startup called Bedfully, which is the one-stop shop for all things bed related. And I cannot wait to work on my new bedrooms for my new house with you guys. So we better talk about that. Allison Oleskey, Sharon Ainsberg, Chelsa Yin, welcome to Eat My Words.
Chelsa Yin: Thank you.
Sharon Ainsberg: Thank you.
Allison Oleskey: Thanks for having us.
Chelsa Yin: Quite an opening.
Sharon Ainsberg: I know. I'm all teared up.
Chelsa Yin: I thought you were.
Allison Oleskey: There might be some tears on this.
Johanna Almstea...: You're allowed to cry.
Allison Oleskey: I might cry.
Johanna Almstea...: Crying's encouraged. I'm into it. So I'm so excited to have you all here partially because I adore you and I'm secretly using this podcast to just catch up with people I love.
Chelsa Yin: Smart.
Johanna Almstea...: So that's a very real ulterior motive to this. But I also want to talk about partnership. You guys are, to me, the epitome of what successful female partnerships look like. And in an industry that has so many amazing women, I feel like there are very few actually really good partnerships that are long-standing. And so I kind of want to dig into your secrets, your philosophies, how you guys make it work. I've known you all now for 15 years plus, and I was thinking about this. I've worked with you in a couple different capacities at different companies and I have never known any of you to have an unkind word or even an eye roll or an ounce of drama around each other or between the three of you. So my first question is it really like that or are you guys just really good at hiding it?
Chelsa Yin: I mean, I think it's really like that. I have to say there's moments where it can get contentious and we have differing opinions, but we always work through it. And the number one thing I think we always strive to have is honesty. I've said some really hard things I think to Sharon and Allison and they'll come back and be like, "I get it. I hear you. I totally know where you're coming from and here's my response." And it just works out so that we give each of us a proper amount of floor time to say our piece and to be heard and then to sort of work through any hiccups or disagreements. And we always find a way to the other side.
Johanna Almstea...: That's amazing.
Sharon Ainsberg: Allison?
Allison Oleskey: Yeah, no, I think it is not smoke and mirrors. It's totally true. And I think it's partially, I mean because we started this agency, it was born out of the desire to have something that felt that way to us, that didn't have that toxicity and to create within us, but within everybody that kind of environment. So as challenging as it is at times, I think we've been able to do that. And the lines are obviously blurred I think more so than even in other partnerships sometimes with personal and professional and there aren't really even those lines. So I think this is it. What you see is what you get.
Sharon Ainsberg: Yeah, I mean I kind of look at this coming May, Allison and I will have been working together 21 years and I think Chelsa's not far behind that. I mean we're probably 17 years or something. I mean since Chelsa, how old were you when we first met?
Chelsa Yin: 2007. It's like 23?
Sharon Ainsberg: Yeah. So I really think that just foundationally speaking, you can't have a partnership unless there is just so much respect and it is like a marriage. I mean I think that you look at getting through really hard times and if you have gotten through them and have figured your way through them, you sort of feel like, "Wow, am I in a relationship that just feels indestructible? Because I know if I need to put my helmet on and get through the really, really hard shit with these people, then I know I can get through anything." And I do think that even when Allison and I were starting SHO+CO and into the first few years, we felt like we had to go through a war. We were in a lawsuit with our old business partners from our old agency. They had embezzled money. It was a disaster.
And she and I just put our helmets on and went through that together. And I think we knew early on that Chelsa, that we sort of had to have her as part of the company and then we always knew, I think what the future would hold was that ultimately she would become a partner in the business. And it's just because we just knew we were building something together and that she had the kind of resilience that sort of matched up to what we learned we have.
Johanna Almstea...: And were those actual conversations you had with each other when you were starting this partnership first, the two of you, and then bringing Chelsa in later? Did you sit down and intentionally decide like, "We're going to be transparent, we're going to be honest, we're going to do this"? Did you set yourself like tenants of the partnership or did it just evolve naturally like that because that's who you both are?
Sharon Ainsberg: Well, I think Allison and I, when we knew we were leaving our old agency, we had gone on vacation together to Costa Rica and we made what is now a very famous for the two of us pros and cons list of going it alone. And what were the benefits of staying with an agency that we helped build from the ground up really, from four or five people to over 60 and we made our pros and cons list and we really could see how much the pros outweighed the cons. We used to say in the beginning that we wanted our motto to be wake up, love what you do, and love who you do it with. I think we realized pretty early on that was going to have to include Chelsa Yin.
Johanna Almstea...: Chelsa, did you know that when it was happening?
Chelsa Yin: No. I remember having a conversation with them about the possibility of coming on board and I don't think in my head I wasn't ready to leave what I had started at, I was at Sunshine Sachs building the celebrity division and working across a ton of not-for-profits. And in my head I thought, "I really want to stick this out." It was really tough work. It was a ton of clients, ton of hours. And I initially said, I think I kind of want to figure out what happens here. And then I talked to my sister and she was like, "Are you crazy? These are the only two people that have ever had your back. Why would you not go back with them?" And I called them immediately and I was like, "This is it. I'm done." It's such a true moment to be with people that trusted you. They've never treated me anything less than. They've built two huge companies and I sort of started from the bottom and they helped me become what I am today, but they've never treated me less than. And I will say that's really important thing.
Sharon Ainsberg: I think as partners, and it was really interesting. I just did a one-hour speaking engagement on Zoom for a bunch of students at Indiana University for a pop culture class. And I said to the kids, I think the thing about my partners and the way we've structured our business is that we're always down in the muckety muck. We've never decided that it wasn't worth having a conversation with someone's assistant. You never know where these people will end up. And we've always shown everyone's personal assistants so much respect, and I've never been that person. I mean, yes, of course you want to speak to... You're servicing a client, of course it's wonderful. You want to be able to speak to a CEO and a CMO but at the same time, it's a lot of those young people who are really down and dirty in the job and killing themselves.
I just think we've always been the people that aren't really afraid to get our hands dirty and have always looked at approaching business as no job is too big or small. And I do think that, listen, of course we have our moments where it's just like, "Oh my God, do I literally need to be doing that right now?" Everybody goes through that, right? And it's certainly at my age, I definitely have my moments where I'm like, "I'm exhausted. Do I need to still be dealing with this crap?" But when you're supported and you have business partners like I have, you always feel the underpinnings of support.
And again, I think it really comes back to just we each really understand each other's strengths and weaknesses. And most importantly, I think that each of us know our own strengths and weaknesses and know when we need to lean into the other people to kind of lift us up in the things. And if you come from a place in business and in partnership from a place of know what you know and know what you don't know and be willing to admit what you don't know and surround yourself with the people who know what you don't know-
Johanna Almstea...: Major.
Sharon Ainsberg: ... you can certainly feel unstoppable. Even in these very, very uncertain times. I'm probably the most always worrying kind of... You know what I mean?
Johanna Almstea...: The is falling, the sky is falling.
Sharon Ainsberg: The stress level and to use the Yiddish word tsuris, and lately I've just been like 2025, we are going to be okay. And even with everything going on in the world, when I look at these two women, I know that if we can just get through it, I know we're going to be okay.
Johanna Almstea...: That brings me to you guys work in a pretty high drama industry. You've got celebrity egos and you've got agents and you've got budgets and brands and all the people and all the personalities and the endorsement deals and blah. It's a lot. How do you guys not get whipped up in it? Because there's so much drama around you all the time, but I would say having worked with all of you for several different projects and some big stakes ones, some pretty expensive, high ego projects, how do you not get whipped up in the drama? How do you keep it calm or do you?
Sharon Ainsberg: That's a fantastic question for Chelsa Yin.
Johanna Almstea...: Chelsa Yin, how do you keep it calm?
Chelsa Yin: I am like I seem calm on the outside and then my insides are destroyed. So I just kind of head down and then I think all of us come together and we're like, "Can you believe that fucking guy? Can you believe it? What is wrong with him?" And then we put him on the no list and there's people that we refuse to work with and there's people that we say to clients, "You don't want to do that. You know why? Because we did that and you're not going to have to do that ever again because we already did it for you. It's horrific." And then we call each other and we say, "That was just terrible," but we know who we are. We've been doing this forever. And you sort of have to ignore the drama because there's so many psychological evaluations that need to be done on the people that are dramatic and that do stirred into this maniac crazy world and you just sort of surround yourselves with these two women and you get through it.
Allison Oleskey: I mean I think we also see the humor in it. I mean do sometimes.
Chelsa Yin: Yes.
Allison Oleskey: We still have referencings with things that happened 10 years ago that we still laugh about. And I mean for me, that's a lot of how I have to get through it.
Sharon Ainsberg: You can only take so much without just, there always needs to be a veil of humor, because otherwise you just sit back and say life is just way too short to deal with people that are this level of idiocy. It's totally ridiculous and you just powered through it.
Allison Oleskey: Yeah, I mean, I think as you said, Jo, if we're talking about clients' money, large amounts of money, big deals that things need to get done and nobody's better at this than Chelsa Yin, it's literally just putting the head down and tuning that stuff out.
Johanna Almstea...: Not letting it all distract you.
Chelsa Yin: There's just so many other things that I think ground us outside of what we do. So you like hang up after doing a $2 million deal, then you wipe up baby's butt and you're back to square one and you feel like, "Okay, that wasn't that serious."
Johanna Almstea...: Okay, well this is a very good segue because I think for you guys in particular, your work lives and your personal lives are also majorly intertwined. Sharon, you're the godmother to Allison's daughter, a role I know you take very seriously. You guys are all very close friends too. So is it ever too much or is it just really truly living holistically and integrated and easily and this is just you've found the perfect match? You've found the perfect balance?
Allison Oleskey: Well, I say for Sharon and I and Chelsa for the most of my career with them, I've been on a different coast. So that's a different... I mean there was only a few years of overlap when I was in New York with them. So I have not had in so long, certainly not since we've had our own agency like that day in and day out office experience. And I bums me out sometimes. It really does. It bums me out before COVID. It bums me up now. But I think that alone gives it a certain degree of free.
Johanna Almstea...: It's a boundary, it's an actual geographic [inaudible 00:15:35].
Allison Oleskey: It's a separation, and now they're working remotely and there is no New York office. And so I think it probably the boundaries are just more natural. And I mean when Sharon comes to LA, she stays with me and it is all of that's kind of mixed up and that is partially because it's the time to hang out with her goddaughter and it's just like a natural, it would feel weird to me if she didn't do that.
Sharon Ainsberg: I have made jokes to friends that I'm like, "If you really want to see the mastery of a long distance relationship, look at the three of us." It's pretty incredible. I mean Allison and I have basically been in a long distance relationship for 18 or 19 years and we started the business knowing that that actually really worked well for us because we were able to cover both coasts. Now there have been times where I've suffered enormous feelings of guilt when I felt like she had to shoulder burdens that were just the mere fact of us having a showroom in LA and not in New York. And that being a really big burden. And I definitely miss being in an office situation with Chelsa. I miss the spitfire, that daily just spitfiring and overhearing each other's conversations and being able to be in it in that way.
And I do think during COVID, when we knew we had to give up the office, that there was something very brutal about that for me because it was the togetherness that I really loved. Even though we were a smaller team, we're only five in New York, but it was brutal giving that up. But going to LA it is, to Allison's point, it just feels like it's important for me to feel enmeshed with not only being in the office and seeing everyone, but being able to have that kind of quality time with my goddaughter. Because you said it at the top of the conversation, it's a relationship I take very, very, very seriously and I don't have children of my own. So Allison includes me in a lot of conversations that she really doesn't have to include me in but does when it pertains to Liv.
Allison Oleskey: I've been waiting for the day that I just ship her off. I'm always like, "Can you just talk to her about XYZ?" I want her to absorb all of the Shazzaness on this issue, get her all of the... Forget about the style and the hair and the makeup and all that, but give her the confidence, give her the musical, get her into your orbit.
Sharon Ainsberg: And it's a really... I have definitely... If you want to talk about the hard stuff, Jo.
Johanna Almstea...: We do.
Sharon Ainsberg: When you go through hard times the way we did with COVID and honestly with all the changes and things that are happening now and we're seeing that all the brands are feeling it and people are pulling back on budgets and you're in this weird in-between land of some clients are really investing and some just have to pull back, right? As if COVID wasn't bad enough, now we're in these very uncertain times and it is like I have those moments where I'm kind of like, "I feel so alone." And Chelsa and Allison have families and they have this safety net. They're like shrouded in support from families and parents and in-laws and the whole thing.
And I know the grass is always greener, but I definitely have those moments and I have voiced them I think to both of these women where I've said sometimes it feels like things are really different for me because it's just me and me and if anything were to happen, I don't know what I would do because I don't have that kind of support system. And yet I also know that I have freedoms that they don't have. But again, I just think it all goes back to how much respect we have for one another and the fact that we're able to have those kinds of open conversations.
Johanna Almstea...: I was going to say, it sounds like you prioritize honesty.
Sharon Ainsberg: Yeah. Chelsa and I were on the phone for over an hour the other day with us just talking about this kind of stuff like the hard stuff, like business is so different than it used to be. How do we reinvent? What do we do? What are your needs? You have two small children at home. I'm on my own. I'm trying to figure out, and Allison and I are always having these conversations and it's wild, but somehow the three of us just have a way of being able to talk to each other in a very open way.
Johanna Almstea...: What does it feel like to you guys, Allison and Chelsa, what does it feel like to you when she comes to you and says something like, "I feel so alone. You guys have those safety nets"? What does that feel like as her partner?
Chelsa Yin: I always say Sharon is the most unalone person I've ever met. I am literally, you are the most social. You have the biggest network. You have so many friends. You could literally drop her in the middle of Michigan and she'll be walking down the street and be like, "Oh my God, is that you, Sarah from 2004?" And you're like, "Oh my gosh. That's Shazza." And I understand the feeling of the blood relatives and the family, but she's got chosen family all around her. And my kids love her. My family loves her. My husband walks by and he'll hear me say three words. He's like, "Oh, she's on with Shazza and Allison." I mean, it's such a rare thing. And we always say to her, you're never alone. You will always have us no matter what. And it's not the same. And I completely understand that, but from our point of view, it's like Shazza's got a full life. She has so much love around her, more than anyone I think I've ever met. I mean, you should have seen her 50th birthday party.
Allison Oleskey: It is hard to hear. And I do understand. Listen, blood relatives is not everything. People have big families and they're not close and they don't have that. But I'm lucky I have kind of a mix of all of that. I have stepsister who really feels like a real sister. I have a stepmother who feels I have an incredible mother, I have an incredible father. I have all that, but I don't have anything that comes close to the chosen family part. It is not even the people from 2004 that she's running into in the street. It is literally she could have dinner parties every day of the week with people that would take a bullet for her.
Chelsa Yin: Yes.
Johanna Almstea...: A hundred percent.
Allison Oleskey: You know what I mean?
Chelsa Yin: It's not like a handful of people. It's like many handful.
Allison Oleskey: No, it's literally people have-
Chelsa Yin: Rooms, auditoriums.
Allison Oleskey: That people would take a bullet for her. I mean, when she left the old agency, the staff there, everybody wrote down a piece of paper and what she meant to them, and gave her this box and it was like, "I think I got a card." I mean, it was a few people sent. It was like overflowing.
Johanna Almstea...: They're like, "Don't let the door hit you on the way out there, Allison."
Allison Oleskey: It's just absurd. It's like a hundred scraps of paper coming out of this thing with love letters and I got muted on Facebook by everybody. I'm just like, I don't understand.
Sharon Ainsberg: No, I mean look, it's not a boohoo thing. I think it's an age thing. I think that I am in midlife in a way that has perhaps led me to this place where you're mired in what is my future.
Johanna Almstea...: Yes, I would say knowing you personally, this is not a conversation you used to have in your brain. This is a new conversation for you.
Sharon Ainsberg: That's right. You're not as reflective. You are more like, "How am I mapping out my future?" And I do think I have said this too, I hope I've said it to Chelsa, but I know I've said it to Allison. For me being in business means doing it with these two, which I do think is a decent segue into Bedfully only because the idea of reinvention or exploring something new as business people, which is really scary by the way. Just going into a new direction, you've never done it before, but being able to see that all the pillars, all the tent poles are there for this thing to be successful because you're doing it together.
Johanna Almstea...: So that was interesting. That's one of the questions that I had was this idea of was it even ever a question? Was it doing Bedfully and then, oh, maybe I'll do it with these other people or was it always with-
Sharon Ainsberg: No way.
Johanna Almstea...: ... it was always the three of you?
Sharon Ainsberg: For me, it was actually Allison who had said to me, "You should really do this. This is a real business." And I was like, "Okay, great. When are we doing it?"
Johanna Almstea...: She's like, "Guess what? You're doing it with me."
Sharon Ainsberg: It wasn't like, I'm going to go do this thing. It was knowing, when I thought about the concept of sleep and what that means and how it figures into everyone's lives, I said to myself immediately, "Wow, if the three of us did this together, three women all at different life stages with different needs and different ways of living." I knew when we were thinking about this back in 2019 and we said, "Let's just get the corporate papers and do this thing because this will be really cool. Let's do this together." All I was thinking to myself was, I can't remember, Chelsa, were you pregnant yet or were you... No, she wasn't pregnant yet. But it was like the life stage thing was just glaring me.
Johanna Almstea...: The fact that you were at such three different stages in your life.
Sharon Ainsberg: It was like a spotlight in my face. I was like, this is so amazing because we are three women who understand building brands. Why shouldn't we have our own? Why wouldn't we be able to build something together and be able to still work with lots of brands, which we love to do, but do it in a curated kind of way and have it be our own expression from these three different perspectives and life stages?
Johanna Almstea...: And how has that been since you guys all have had very sort of defined or siloed roles at SHO+CO and now you're doing a totally different kind of business. Running a brand is very different than doing the kinds of deals that you guys do, I feel like. So how has that changed your roles? Has it been uncomfortable? Has there been weird like, "Okay, you do this, I do this"? Or was it just sort of a natural evolution from your current way of working together at the first company?
Sharon Ainsberg: I don't know. I mean, I think we always knew that I would try to do as much of the Bedfully stuff as possible. Allison sort of always throwing in more ideas. And I think we knew that until we were in a place where this could become real or we are able to raise capital or anything like that. I think we always knew there's no way to do it unless the agency is stable. And part of that stability has been Chelsa and Allison keeping the agency super stable while I'm more Bedfully, but at the same time just trying to still sign new business to the agency, more top line perspective, maybe not as much servicing clients as much anymore. They are, and I'm trying to focus more on new business, but that part's been hard too.
The agency has to be stable or Bedfully can't survive because we need the agency to do well. And then it will eventually allow us, I think one day to be able to step away. I mean, I do believe, I don't know. I mean, my dream is we get to kind of pass off the agency maybe to somebody who can continue to run with it and then we get to really throw ourselves into making Bedfully what I think we all believe it could be. But we haven't raised capital yet.
Johanna Almstea...: So tell our listeners what Bedfully is.
Sharon Ainsberg: So Bedfully is where sleep style and sleep wellness come together and we believe that those two things are inextricably linked. I think what we want more than anything is to bring joy and humor back to the topic of sleep. Have people have one place to go for all things sleep where they'd be able to shop and read and not feel like they're going to a place that feels very antiseptic, but rather go to a place that actually has personality and this kind of robust grouping of where everything with us has a wink and a nod. Our tagline is we give good bed.
Johanna Almstea...: Which I love.
Sharon Ainsberg: Our sub tag is we spend every waking hour thinking about sleep so you don't have to. And again, I do think that the life stages, it puts us in a situation where why wouldn't people want to hear from us? We have one person who has two small kids at home and she basically never sleeps and kids are running around and throwing up and getting sick. You know what I mean? And you have that crazy-
Johanna Almstea...: I do know what you mean.
Sharon Ainsberg: And then you have Allison, who now has a full-blown tween.
Johanna Almstea...: Human, she's a human.
Sharon Ainsberg: A 12 years old.
Johanna Almstea...: Human, person.
Sharon Ainsberg: You know what I mean? Wants to go to Canal Street and buy a fake Dior bag, which I am freaking all about mixing.
Allison Oleskey: She's going to shut that down hard.
Sharon Ainsberg: Yeah. I mean, oh no, I'm going to... She was like, "Please not blow her dream of this." I was like, "Well, [inaudible 00:29:41]."
Johanna Almstea...: No, we're blowing her dream.
Sharon Ainsberg: We're going to need to have a conversation.
Johanna Almstea...: We're going to go talk about some vintage here.
Sharon Ainsberg: We're going to talk environment. We're going to talk about small children in sweatshops in Bangladesh. We're going to have this conversation.
Johanna Almstea...: All she wanted was a fake Dior bag and we're going to get a life lesson here, people.
Sharon Ainsberg: Godmother came in and busted up that dream.
Johanna Almstea...: Broken dreams.
Sharon Ainsberg: Broken dreams. But I really believe that Bedfully is our next iteration. And it's not that I don't still love what we do. I do love servicing clients. I love making deals. I love negotiating. I love helping a client get a great deal. I love all of that. But I know that for the three of us, creating our own thing, our own brand with our own voice, and being able to one day be the client would be very exciting for us. Being able to hire a publicist and have maybe a marketing company, an affiliate marketing agency, and be the client, we know what it's like. And honestly, I think it would make us really nice, good clients.
Johanna Almstea...: You'd be such clients be good clients. It'd be so nice.
Sharon Ainsberg: I think we'd be like, "Look, guys [inaudible 00:31:02]."
Allison Oleskey: Like, "Excuse me, would you mind sending over that progress report?"
Johanna Almstea...: "I mean I know I'm paying you a really high retainer and stuff, but could you just send us that report?" So this is interesting because this just came up. I just recorded another episode earlier today actually, and my first episode of this is all about reinvention. And so I think it's really interesting because it feels to me like, Chelsa, I feel like you were probably in a world of reinvention when you had your babies, right? Because then you're like, you're still doing your job, but then you're now a working mom and what does that look like? And that was one form of reinvention. Allison, it's like another level of parenting or whatever is that reinvention. And I think it's hard to, in my mind from a career perspective, not want to reinvent. You guys have been doing what you've been doing a really long time, and so it's hard to think, yes, you may still love it, right?
It's not saying that you don't, but I think that there's something, the landscape has changed so much. The industry has changed so much. It's hard not to want to be on the other side of it, right? It's hard not to want to be a client and be the one who is being serviced. It's hard not to want control. I think when you work in the worlds that we worked in, I certainly can say that this is part of the impetus for doing this podcast is the idea of I want it to be mine. I want it to not be anybody else's. It's mine to fail. It's mine to succeed. It's mine to blow off the rooftops or it's mine to be a hobby if that's what it is. But I think there is something, particularly for people who've always been on the other side of the business that's like, it's natural I think, to want to reinvent and it's natural to maybe want to be on the flip side of things.
Sharon Ainsberg: And I think healthy.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, totally.
Sharon Ainsberg: Healthy to know yourself well enough and certainly to know your partnership well enough to know that if we can do this together and we can invent this new thing together and we can make a success of it, the sky's the limit.
Johanna Almstea...: And did this take any convincing, Allison and Chelsa, was there any convincing process or were you just like, "We're in, I'm in"?
Chelsa Yin: No, yeah, there was zero convincing. I mean, Sharon has always had a knack for design and finding, just like she'll be the one person that can find anything on eBay where I would spend hours and hours scouring and I couldn't find anything. She'd be like 10 minutes, found it. This is one of a kind rare piece. So Sharon's-
Johanna Almstea...: Which is where she's going to find Liv's Dior bag.
Chelsa Yin: Yes, yes, exactly.
Johanna Almstea...: Going to be fun.
Chelsa Yin: She's always loved it. And I remember having a conversation in the stairwell at our old office and she said, "Look, I think I want to start really investing time and energy in this. Would you do it?" And you can't say no to someone's passion project because she was so passionate about it.
Johanna Almstea...: Well, you can't. There are people that can but-
Chelsa Yin: I can't, I could never, I knew that this was something that was important to her. And I actually do full-heartedly believe in its mission. There's nothing like it. It's such one of a kind idea. And to be honest, half of my bedtime rituals, my sleep rituals, the lack thereof, all of that comes from her. And it's almost like an easy one-stop shop for myself too. I also am the customer for Bedfully. So yeah, there was just no reason when you're talking about pros and cons, there were no cons. And it was sort of a time when we were just getting into COVID and the entire industry stopped and it allowed for her to focus on something that wasn't negative where we were just sort of drowning and trying to make ends meet. And it gave her, and I think all of us, an outlet that has lasted.
Johanna Almstea...: Building something as opposed to watching things fall apart.
Chelsa Yin: Building something. And she's really good at building stuff, and she includes us when we are able to allocate time to be included, and she runs with it when we don't have the time to sort of weigh in on everything. So I think it's brilliant, and I'm so happy that it has come this far and will go that much further.
Sharon Ainsberg: Thank you, Chelsa. I mean, look, we launched this thing with over 500 products and 142 brands, and I really think that people just don't realize everything with wellness up until now has been diet and exercise, diet and exercise, diet and exercise, diet and exercise. And everyone takes sleep for granted. You can look anywhere as much as it's a conversation, it's still the badge of honor are people who work themselves to the bone. They sleep three hours a night because they worked. It used to be me, it used to be me, click-clacking around in my high heels, four different countries for runway shows, getting on a plane straight to Los Angeles for the Oscars and me thinking that a hundred-hour weeks were even remotely normal.
Johanna Almstea...: And that they were good. It was like there was some value in them.
Sharon Ainsberg: I'm a mover and shaker and I was a freaking stress case.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Allison Oleskey: What's so exciting to me has been the evolution of what this is because that piece has become, in our mind, such an equal piece to kind of the style side and the practical side of the purchasing side of what sheets do you want? What's the best pillow? Is all of this... Because while we're talking to people about it over the years, everybody has something to say. So just say sleep, it's like there's always a ah, and I feel like the tides have turned a lot, certainly with millennials and even Gen Z. think there's a movement to this different approach to sleep. And so to me, that's what's so exciting. I'm still working on it.
Johanna Almstea...: It feels like they're a bigger mission. You have a bigger mission kind of.
Allison Oleskey: And we're all work in progress. I mean, Sharon is the master. She's the only one that's really been able to do it. But I think that's what appeals to me is kind of digging into all of those different life stages that people are in and what sleep means to different people and what might work for one person. And even the small education piece and simple things that we can all do that are realistic because not everybody can have nine routine things that they're going to do at night, but you can do small things and it will make a difference. It's like why even talking to my parents who are in their 80s and they're the last generation of people that are like, "Oh, I didn't do enough today, but I don't know why I'm so tired." It's like, because you need to sleep. It's not...
Johanna Almstea...: It's not rocket science, guys.
Allison Oleskey: That connection is still being made by people. It's like that's why people are tortured. That's why new mothers go crazy. It's like because you're not getting enough sleep. Sleep-
Johanna Almstea...: Well, and I think there's such a stigma that hopefully you guys are breaking, but it goes back to that same like we prided ourselves on-
Allison Oleskey: I'll sleep when I'm dead.
Johanna Almstea...: ... never sleeping. Yeah, I'll sleep when I'm dead. I hate that. I hate that.
Allison Oleskey: My grandmother used to say that.
Sharon Ainsberg: Yeah, I mean everybody, it's a terrible, really horrible saying. And I mean, I'm probably going to get torpedoed for saying this, and I've said it in the past, but listen, nobody held up Ruth Bader Ginsburg in higher esteem than I did. I mean, I worshiped the ground that woman walked on, but she used to brag about how she only slept three or four hours a night. And I'm like, "Yeah, she also had three different types of cancer."
And I do think that there is something to making sure that good healthy REM sleep is a part of your night. Because I worry that there is just too much data supporting people who are in jobs where they can't sleep enough and then a higher incidence of illness and in many cases, terminal illness. And it's scary. It's really scary. We have enough risk factors out there as it is. I just think being able to talk about sleep in a way that perhaps makes people feel like, "Oh, okay, they're the experts," meaning the three of us. "They're the experts, but they're just like us. They're going through it just like us." So they are relying on the medical experts, for sure, and perhaps relying on the style experts when it comes to certain interior designers and prop stylists and people who do interior styling for magazines, et cetera.
Sure, we will be relying on those people. But a lot of this is what has worked for us. What are the tried and true things? And this goes back to the life stage thing as well, or who we've been as people. I mean, I've always been afraid of pills and ingestibles and taking things that might alter my... I don't want to take pills to go to sleep, and even sometimes I don't want to do gummies or anything like that. So I keep trying the natural way and Allison battled the dependency on Ambien because it was the one thing that got her through the night and now she's off it. That in and of itself to me makes us such great people to rely on because we can have so many different conversations about how sleep has been integrated into our lives and our own personal health journey.
Johanna Almstea...: Totally.
Sharon Ainsberg: And that also goes back to just partnership and us knowing that we're the right people to build this kind of thing together.
Johanna Almstea...: So even though it's not hard for you guys, why do you think partnership can be so hard for other people? What do you think it is? I personally have not been successful at sustaining partnerships, and it's with people I adore, I love and respect and love working with, and I've tried a couple different business partnerships and for whatever reasons, we can't make it last. And I think of all of you as really strong-willed people. So what do you think? Why do you think it's so hard and why do you think it's easy for you guys?
Allison Oleskey: I think that we have a huge advantage of having this kind of prior experience together at our old agency where...
Johanna Almstea...: That you guys worked for someone else together?
Allison Oleskey: Well, yeah. And we were made partners, but it wasn't really empowered partners. And so for many years we helped each other through, one of us would be having a hard time for a couple months, and the other one would be... And watching the way that we knew we didn't want to operate. When we finally did leave, it's like, "Okay, now we have all the information about how we don't want to be." And then we had another set of partners who were in another part of the old agency and they would tell us that they went to therapy together.
Johanna Almstea...: I was going to ask about that.
Allison Oleskey: I always thought that that was incredibly healthy and a really smart way to approach partnership. But just from the get is just like any other relationship.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. Have you guys ever done it?
Sharon Ainsberg: Yeah.
Allison Oleskey: We've done it a few times, yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. All three of you go?
Sharon Ainsberg: Well, not all three of us, but Allison and I have gone together.
Allison Oleskey: We should probably have Chelsa come in on a set.
Sharon Ainsberg: We should have.
Chelsa Yin: I don't think I knew that. I would love the cliff notes from those sessions.
Allison Oleskey: From that session. I'd like to be a fly on the wall for that one.
Sharon Ainsberg: The water works lunatic. I was just a shell of a human when I left that room. But yeah, no, I think that that's important. I mean, I know we've never all done it together, but Allison and I have done it. And usually Allison and I have done it during key moments in the business that have been transitional in some way where we just knew that we had to get the help to make sure that we were communicating and everything was out in the open and that we could get guidance from an outside person to help us through those moments.
Johanna Almstea...: And for people who are listening, was it a specific, a therapist who specializes in business coaching or it was just like a couple service?
Allison Oleskey: That would probably be what most people do, but this was...
Johanna Almstea...: Like a marriage counselor?
Chelsa Yin: I was going to say, was it a marriage counselor?
Allison Oleskey: No, just more of like a therapist being brought in. In this case was, we've done it a few times in LA with various people that I was seeing.
Sharon Ainsberg: That's right.
Johanna Almstea...: A therapist you were already seeing and you brought her in.
Sharon Ainsberg: Yeah. Then we did use him. One of them, I ended up doing one or two sessions with on Zoom. He's based in Los Angeles and Allison and I went to see him together just because I think that he really got it so fast.
Johanna Almstea...: I can't believe that more people don't do this.
Sharon Ainsberg: Yeah. I think it's because Allison and I are really open to, both of us really believe in psychotherapy. We really believe in the benefits of going into a neutral space and being able to talk to each other with a coach, with somebody who can be there to listen to both and observe.
Allison Oleskey: Do you think it would've helped yours if you had done it?
Johanna Almstea...: Yes, I do.
Sharon Ainsberg: Can I ask you a question? Did you try to start partnerships with people you were friends with first?
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. We were friends.
Sharon Ainsberg: Yeah. That's not how-
Johanna Almstea...: Well, but we were also coworkers.
Sharon Ainsberg: Oh, you were coworkers.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Sharon Ainsberg: You worked together before.
Johanna Almstea...: We had already worked together, two different times. People who I literally loved and adored. And it's funny because I always think about, I remember thinking about you guys when I got into those partnerships because I'd known you guys already at that point and being like, "I could do this. I could have what they have. I could have somebody who I love and adore and we could be so close and I could respect them so much, respect their work so much," and it didn't work both times.
Sharon Ainsberg: I think you really just don't know. And honestly, Jo, I think it's like any other relationship or frankly any other marriage, you are either in it and you're going to give up and just say, "This is not working. I am not happy, period. I'm not happy working with this person or being married to this person and I know I can't get there." Or you know that you're happy. But there are obstacles that make it difficult in communication and can you overcome those obstacles? And if you know you can overcome those obstacles together, then great.
Even if there was a day that I turned around and said, "Guys, I'm just too old for this shit. I don't think I can handle it anymore." I actually believe, I know I would feel supported. I know that they would say to me, "Okay, how do you want to do this? What do you want to do?" I don't feel that way because for me, I'm happiest when I'm working with these women. That's how I feel. I know sometimes we have to make tough decision. You have to make tough decisions about your life. But I also know that this for me signifies greatness.
Johanna Almstea...: Certainly. So Chelsa, you've talked about this a little bit earlier, but what happens when you don't agree beyond going to therapy, but in the day-to-day stuff, how does that play out? Because I think at least in my own experience, often it came from not agreeing. Not agreeing on how to run the business or not agreeing on how we want images to look or whatever it was. And so how does disagreement work with you guys?
Chelsa Yin: I mean, I think, look, if there's a decision that's made that I don't think all of us agree with, just for the sheer fact that we have so much respect for each other, it's kind of like, let's just see how this plays out. If you feel that passionately about making this decision and you really want it, it's fine if it fails because we fail together. And there's something nice about, I hate to say it, but there's something nice about knowing if we all go down, we all go down together. We're all on the Titanic, and there's that level of comfort where it's not a me against you. It's like an us against everyone else. If this fails, we're all on it together and we all give it at our all. And if this is a success, which knock on wood, it has been, I don't think we see this as this is a must have forever.
It's kind of like, this has been so great and so nice and so easy for this long, let's hope that it stays that way and I think it will. I became a mom and I have never felt so much support in a work setting that I was just blown away. And there's so few instances that you could work with people and also be partners with people where they support you in that manner. I mean, I was calling them over my husband being like, "What the hell do I do? This is crazy." And there's something nice about that, and I know there's a lot of work is work and personal is personal, but it doesn't ever feel like the lines are too blurred with the three of us. And so-
Allison Oleskey: Since it's coming from the person that you have to tell her to stop returning emails from the delivery room.
Chelsa Yin: That I think is our problem, where she's like, you need to... Friday, I was like, "Do you guys care if I just take Friday off? I had family visiting," and then I'm responding to stuff and I get the, "You better put your phone down. You better stop right now." So they keep being-
Sharon Ainsberg: It's like, what the hell are you doing? What happens to work [inaudible 00:48:47] the day off?
Chelsa Yin: They keep me sane.
Sharon Ainsberg: Right.
Chelsa Yin: Yeah. They'll tell you, I'm a little bit of a control freak.
Sharon Ainsberg: Virgo.
Johanna Almstea...: There you go.
Chelsa Yin: Case in point. But they're just so supportive and so it's a two-way street. If someone feels that strongly about something in a decision where I'm like, "I don't know." It's kind of like, "Okay, let's see where this goes."
Sharon Ainsberg: And also Allison runs the financials, Jo, for our company, and I'm the worst and she's the best. She yells at me a lot and she's usually right. It's like, I just have this firm belief we're going to be okay. We're going to be okay. We're going to be okay. When one thing goes, another thing happens. I know times are rough, but I really believe we're going to be okay. We always are. We've gotten through so much worse and I always believe that. And she's just like, "You can't spend on this thing and you've got to fucking start." And I'm like, "Oh my God, she's mad at me. I'm being too irresponsible. I got to get back on the Oleskey plan here." But again, I do think it also goes back to strengths and weaknesses. That's my weakness. Maybe I'm too positive about that stuff sometimes. I'm not like irresponsible.
Allison Oleskey: It's just that you like nice things.
Sharon Ainsberg: Well, that is a big, big, big fucking [inaudible 00:50:11].
Chelsa Yin: I mean, who on this podcast doesn't?
Johanna Almstea...: Let's be real.
Chelsa Yin: I mean Allison and I are like, I don't even know what a nice thing is. Literally, yeah.
Sharon Ainsberg: I'm just like...
Allison Oleskey: If my house is burning, I took a sweatsuit and my Christmas wine. There's nothing I don't have. There's nothing to take.
Johanna Almstea...: But all of your pretty books behind you. Okay, so this brings something up that I think is interesting and tell me if I'm wrong, but it feels to me like you guys prioritize the partnership almost above the business.
Chelsa Yin: Yeah, a hundred percent.
Johanna Almstea...: Does that feel right?
Sharon Ainsberg: Yes.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. I feel like that's major for people who are listening, who are trying to get in partnership with someone. I think that's huge because it feels to me like most people, and I actually, one of the partnerships that I had that didn't work so well, one of the answers was, this is not what the business needs. The business needs this, the business needs that. And I kept being like, "Yeah, but we decided on this. We as partners had committed to this." And so I think it's interesting because yes, obviously you're not going to let your business tank at the expense of the partnership, but it feels like the partnership gets the priority attention in a way so that you ensure that the business can then be healthy and good.
Sharon Ainsberg: Well, I mean, to me, the happiness and prosperity of the two women I'm sharing this business with and this podcast with, that matters more to me in the long run.
Johanna Almstea...: That's huge.
Sharon Ainsberg: It just does. If Allison turned around to me tomorrow and said, "I just got this crazy offer to do A, B, or C." I'd be like, "Okay, let's figure this out because that's fucking incredible and you have to do it. So let's figure out what does that mean for this? What does that mean for Bedfully and what does that mean for you in this new thing? Let's just figure this out." If you don't hold the relationship up, it's like anything. If you are going to not put the sanctity of the relationship first-
Johanna Almstea...: A hundred percent.
Sharon Ainsberg: ... then I don't understand how the house and everything in it survives.
Johanna Almstea...: I feel like this is a major light bulb moment for me, at least.
Sharon Ainsberg: It's a marriage. It's no different. When we were leaving our old agency, I literally said to our old business partners, "Let me put this into terms you understand, we are divorcing you. We have done everything to try to save it. And we can't. There are only two ways this is going to go. It's either we are divorcing you, we're taking the house, the kids. We're taking everything in it, or we're going to come up with some kind of separation agreement. We may not love it. We may each have to give in on things that piss us off, but it's going to be a much better way." And I kind of feel like if we ever decided that SHO+CO was no longer, that would be a decision that we all make together. You know what I mean? And we decide do somebody want to do something else or does somebody... What does it look like? Or if you don't have enough respect for one another to make sure that we are all taking care of each other along the way and putting that first, I don't even see how a business can survive.
Johanna Almstea...: Right. The partnership has to be first.
Sharon Ainsberg: It has to be.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. Okay. So I was going to ask if you have any advice for people who are already in a partnership and are having a difficult time. Sounds like that-
Sharon Ainsberg: Go to therapy. It is okay to go get help from an outside person who is able to listen and mediate conversations when one or the other or both are feeling a state of breakdown. That's okay.
Allison Oleskey: Can you put notes at the bottom of the podcast of recommendations? Because actually one of our old... The partners that I was referring to earlier that were the ones that told us about partner therapy have since left the business and one of them has reinvented and he has become a therapist.
Johanna Almstea...: Amazing.
Allison Oleskey: And this is an area that he specializes in.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. Can we put them in the show notes? Can we refer people to him?
Allison Oleskey: Yes. Yes. I'm going to put him in.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. So we'll do that. What about people who are entering into a new partnership? Is there something that you guys did or that you wish that you did as you were starting out that you think has been foundational, you know that really helped establish your partnership as something solid and good?
Allison Oleskey: I think also we were also very lucky because we got connected with our business manager and he's still our business manager and he's, I mean, we're like a tiny little thing compared to most of the businesses that he works with. And he just became a good friend, but he's very steady, reliable, and a lot of those areas that I think could cause conflict, certainly early on, that was negated I think by having this incredible person helping us. Because I know usually that's the role of one partner or the other, or people kind of bring in a third person that's like a friend or something for that role. And I don't know, I think we got very lucky having him.
Sharon Ainsberg: I do think that was Allison. That was one of the most key decisions Allison ever made was identifying someone who became our business manager, who really makes us feel like he's our CFO.
Johanna Almstea...: I was just going to say, so for people who don't know what a business manager is.
Sharon Ainsberg: It's like an outsourced CFO, right? And he has a lot of big actors. He has big producers, directors in Hollywood.
Allison Oleskey: He has big agencies.
Sharon Ainsberg: Agencies, big PR agencies.
Johanna Almstea...: And the role he plays is essentially your CFO?
Sharon Ainsberg: Yeah.
Allison Oleskey: And then getting us set up with all of those things that are kind of the tediousness and who's going to do what and the papers and looking at what year-after-year revenues. And a lot of that doesn't necessarily need to be run through him anymore, but it is helpful to have that outside voice who's knowledgeable, and...
Johanna Almstea...: And he's somebody who does not have a ownership stake in your business. He gets paid as a retainer.
Allison Oleskey: He's on retainer, yes.
Johanna Almstea...: He's paid on retainer. So I just want to explain that to people because I think a lot of what people do, and this is, I feel like I hear this all the time, especially with a lot of my startup clients and stuff, is that they'll bring someone in to have that role, but they give them a big chunk of equity to be in that role because they can't afford to pay them or whatever it is. And then all of a sudden that person owns part of your business and then it becomes a different thing. So I think it's really interesting for people to hear this, especially because we have a lot of founders in our community, is that this is somebody who is an outside person who remains an outside person, although he's been your business now for however many years.
Sharon Ainsberg: 12 years.
Johanna Almstea...: Almost similar to how you would have a lawyer that you always call for something. This is a business manager that you call that this is the person who handles your finances, that helps you make big decisions around probably, I would imagine, things like real estate or contracts, stuff like that.
Sharon Ainsberg: Everything. Not contracts, but our lawyer does that. But he helps us make our decisions about are we moving? Are we not moving? Can we afford this space? Can we not afford that space?
Johanna Almstea...: Should we spend money on this?
Sharon Ainsberg: Should we spend money on this or not spend money on this? And it's someone who provides a level of guidance that really is, he has never made us feel like he is not our chief financial officer.
Johanna Almstea...: That's amazing.
Sharon Ainsberg: He works with all these other companies and you never have to worry about getting him on the phone.
Johanna Almstea...: That's amazing. That's huge. I feel like that's a huge one for people to hear.
Sharon Ainsberg: He's our guy and he has amazing bookkeepers, and we are very lucky that we have someone who's able to ring the bell when he needs to ring the bell. And also is excited to really celebrate when we have a great year, who's through the roof excited when we have a great year and is so proud of us. So I do think that's essential. The other thing that I think is absolutely essential that you guys have to be on the same page about, take care of your people. Tell them they do a great job. Make them feel valued.
Johanna Almstea...: Pay them what they deserve.
Sharon Ainsberg: Pay them what they deserve. Be willing to take less if you have to when the shit goes down so that you can take care of the people who bring so much value to your company.
Johanna Almstea...: I think that's huge.
Sharon Ainsberg: And it sucks ass, by the way. Okay? No, I mean, and I am sorry because I'm such a potty mouth, but it is really, really fucking hard when you feel like you have to take less to carry everybody at your company. But I am sorry. That's just the way it goes. You want to own a business? That is just the way it goes. You want to have great people who work so hard for you and are so committed to the job and care that much? Take care of your people. Tell them that they're indispensable. Tell them that they have done a great job. Because I just think too many owners just forget about-
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, a million percent.
Sharon Ainsberg: They forget. So simple. Just say, good job.
Johanna Almstea...: I just had to break up with a client actually, because I saw some emails that she had sent to her team.
Sharon Ainsberg: Oh my God.
Johanna Almstea...: And I was horrified and I was like, "Nope, no siree, Bob." I am a consultant. I am not part of the company technically. And I was like, "Absolutely not. Well, I work for somebody who talks to their people like that."
Sharon Ainsberg: No, you can't. It's really gross. And I've seen way too much of it. And I think it is so easy to tell someone when they've done a great job and it should be equally easy to have a constructive conversation if someone fucks something up. I mean, look, I showed up... This was back in the day. I showed up at an airport and I checked in for a flight that was booked one month later.
Chelsa Yin: Oh, did I do that?
Sharon Ainsberg: Was that you?
Allison Oleskey: Oh, Chelsa.
Chelsa Yin: It was a holiday.
Sharon Ainsberg: Was that you, Chelsa?
Chelsa Yin: And you were stuck at the airport going to fashion week and it was a holiday.
Sharon Ainsberg: My God. It was Chelsa.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh my god, Chelsa.
Chelsa Yin: And you still made it to partner.
Sharon Ainsberg: [inaudible 01:01:23] my assistant. Oh my God. And I showed up for a flight in June and it was booked for the same day, but in July.
Chelsa Yin: I just remember it was a holiday.
Sharon Ainsberg: Everything in the schedule and my itinerary and everything was set for June. And there I was [inaudible 01:01:40].
Chelsa Yin: There was a little bit of anger. There was a little anger.
Sharon Ainsberg: I think I was pretty pissed off. But the point is, at some point you just got to get over stuff. I just think that, and I've watched so many people, I don't know, just say crappy things to junior people at the company and I just find it so heartbreaking. It just doesn't have to be that way. It's such a nasty way to do business. So I just think make sure you're going into your business and as your team grows, just take care of your people. It's okay. Sometimes people make mistakes and they screw up and it happens and it sucks when it does. But there are ways to deal with that. And I just think try to be a leader. Just try. Even if you're stressed out. I used to be a nightmare. My stress levels would get so bad, but I feel like I always apologized to my junior team if I was a little bitchy. I would always say shortly afterwards, "Guys, I'm really sorry if I was a bitch before."
Johanna Almstea...: Own your shit.
Sharon Ainsberg: Here's what's going on.
Johanna Almstea...: Own your shit.
Sharon Ainsberg: Really stressed out.
Just own your shit.
Allison Oleskey: I think also I wish, and now there's so much more access to all this stuff, as Sharon said earlier, the things that you don't know, especially if you're starting with somebody and you're having these more defined roles or there's something that, there's all these little things that come with starting a business that you might not know. And there's a million resources and classes and online things to kind of educate yourself on how to, whether it's in HR or whether it's how to be a good leader, how to better communicate or how to do XYZ. It's like I would invest in those things that you feel like you don't know. Or even as those things are coming up. Again, it's like Hello YouTube. Hello bookstore.
Chelsa Yin: Hello Google.
Allison Oleskey: It's so many things. Hello Google.
Johanna Almstea...: Well, I think it's also just, I find this all the time with clients is that just because you're a founder or an owner doesn't mean you're a good manager. It doesn't necessarily mean you're a good leader. You can have great ideas, you can have an amazing product. You can be a total visionary in many ways, and brilliant and wonderful, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you're a good leader. And I think that's a huge thing that people don't prioritize, I feel like, is weird. It's weird to me that in the same way that you don't really learn how to be a mother until you become a mother. But why isn't nobody teaching people that? Why are people not teaching founders and owners true leadership, true management, true people stuff? How to manage people. It's hard.
Allison Oleskey: No, it is.
Chelsa Yin: And I think that everyone has a different style. I, in my own experience, there's so many people that learn in different ways and some people need more handholding and some people need more independence. And I just think that understanding and valuing who you hire and who you work with and knowing them as people is equally as important because everyone just has a different working style. It's not a one for all.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. I definitely feel like I've gotten that lesson as I've gotten older of just like let them do what they do, how they do it. And it doesn't have to, especially with the youngins. I feel like they can provide a tremendous amount of value, but they're not going to work in the way that we're used to working, right?
Chelsa Yin: No, yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: And so I have moments where I'm like, it's hard to let it be that way. And then I'm like, you know what? That's how it is now. Let them do how they do.
All right, everyone, we are going to take a little break. I kept talking with these women for hours and hours and so we actually are going to turn this into two episodes. So we're going to pause here. You're going to tune back in next week to find the rest of our conversation. I hope you have all found it as hilarious and as helpful and inspiring as I have. As always, I am so grateful for you all for tuning in and listening to us tell our stories. I hope you enjoyed it and please tune in next week for part two.
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