Neuronirvana - Ep 6: Michael (Guy) Burford & Hemi Hara

In this episode, I interview mates Hemi and Michael (Guy) Burford. Guy is a serial entrepreneur with multiple businesses and Hemi is his intelligent right hand man. These guys were born in New Zealand and have been mate since school. In this podcast we cover everything from Guys vision for Green Smart Cities to the fascinating studies done with psychedelics and mental health. This one is not to be missed. Head to www.neuronirvana.com.au for more information on our workshops and coaching.

Produced by Podfire. If you'd like to hear more of our podcasts head to www.podfire.com.au

What is Neuronirvana Podcast?

“Start and end each day with gratitude to break the chains of a negative attitude”
Welcome to the Neuironirvana podcast where you can join wellbeing practitioner Ryan Baker as he takes his guests on a deep dive into the world of mental health and wellbeing. Anything that can improve your life, he’s here to talk about. Enjoy!

Produced by Media8.

Speaker 0 (0s): This is a Podfire production.

Speaker 1 (4s): Hi, I'm Ryan and welcome to the Neuronirvana podcast, where we dive into everything to do with mental health and wellbeing and improve your life. We're here to talk about. All right, cool. Welcome to Neuronirvana. We have Michael Burford here today and Hemi Hara. These guys grew up together in New Zealand. Michael, we'll call you guy cause I know Henry calls him guy and that's how I know him as guy. So if you hear us call him guy, that's his middle name? Good

Speaker 2 (34s): Clarification on that one.

Speaker 1 (34s): Yep. So if we say Guy there's not a guy in here you can't see it's actually this guy. So yeah. So you've created a lot of businesses in engineering construction recently invested in cryptocurrency metaverse. Is there anything that you don't do?

Speaker 2 (50s): Not that I found it.

Speaker 1 (51s): Yeah. Awesome. Great. And then, so what are some other businesses that you're involved in at the moment? I know you were looking to do some cherries, so that's where I first piqued my interest with getting, bring onto the show. Cause I know you were talking about chairs with two mental health and we now know everybody's a little bit mental health. So can you tell us a little bit about that charity, that your,

Speaker 2 (1m 12s): Yeah, for sure. No, thanks very much for status for, for inviting me on it's real, I'm going to be able to represent the mental health side of things with near Nevada. So I've come from a bit of a background in a whole bunch of different businesses. My first one being building inspections with the business school as the laps, we've grown that to a national business now, which is pretty cool from there. And that was when I was 22, 23, I set up a structural engineering business and then I dabbled a whole bunch of different things from online platforms, social media and all the sort of stuff between then, and sort of 2018 where I sort of similar or actually 2017 that sort of semi retired at 29 before my 30th birthday, which was pretty cool.

And then I did a bit of travel. I went over to Vegas and, you know, sorta lived out this sort of retirement life and doing that side of things and turned it into a bit of an alcoholic and got fat and ended up putting on probably an extra 25 kilos heavier than I was just from the lifestyle, which then I sort of realized was just not good, you know, sort of gotta wake up in the morning and have a purpose to live. And I sort of lost that when I sort of did the whole attempt to be cool and see me retire and all sort of shit. And so my business was sort of running itself and, and I was waking up and I was cracking beers in the morning and having a barbecue and sort of just looking at my life going right now, what you know, it's not very cool.

And so then I sort of sat down with a wife one day and I said, look, you know, we've just got this R and D grant from one of my businesses I was working on. And I said, what do we do with money to invest it back into the business and get going again? Or did we just buy a house or, you know, what are your thoughts? And she sort of said, well, you sort of need something to do. You know, you're crazy.

Speaker 1 (2m 43s): I love that. You said that. Cause I brought on a guy guest, Adam, Holly Oak, or you guys should know he's a ex cricketer. So obviously after cricket, he went to property development and made a heap of money and did the same kind of thing. I went there and he said, that was the worst period of his life. Like it was because you don't have a purpose, you don't have a drive, you don't have goals, nothing to work towards then that, you know, your whole routine goes out, everything goes out of whack. And then that affects your, your mental health, your physical health and everything like that.

So I think that's real important because a lot of people that we've talked to now write all about, oh, I just want to retire. You know, I just wanna make enough money to retire, but it's not till you get there that you realize that's not really the answer.

Speaker 2 (3m 25s): Yeah. Everyone chases financial freedom, but they don't actually understand the sort of the side effects that come from that, you know, once you sort of get your financial freedom, then it's like, well, I don't have anything to work for anymore because I have passive income and I don't need to, I can retire and wake up whenever I want and do whatever I want. But as you said, that whole routine thing is what keeps us driven. If we wake up at six o'clock in the morning, go to the gym, whatever it might be and start your day like that one, your head's cleared, you've got the sort of endorphin release from the gym and exercise and that sort of routine that you sort of develop.

And, but if you don't have that, that your life is just, it becomes a mess. It really does. And so, yeah, as, as, as sort of from that sort of point, I, I, I mean, I've been found a CEO in and bought him into the business and sort of did some consultancy and sort of develop the big picture plan. And then from there found an investor and he came on board in metal, was money through cryptocurrency. And so he threw everything in and I through my businesses and we created this sort of big

Speaker 1 (4m 20s): That's caliber. Yes.

Speaker 2 (4m 21s): Correct. Yeah. And, and it set up this big business that we kind of have now. And, and we've got everything from supermarkets and restaurants and as a social media platforms for specific niche media, social media and e-commerce platforms in one package and architecture, engineering, urban planning, the dream behind those businesses there is to then start developing smart cities, which we're currently working on at the moment. Hopefully we can have a sort of foot in the ground of that developing these agritech farming systems that can produce 11,000 kilos of food a day.

And then the waste from the farms can be turned into a biomass fuel, which then produces electricity to empower power, either the farms or 2000 houses or potentially 10,000 crypto mines, which can produce one Bitcoin every three days if program correctly. So then that will create a closed circuit system that will then develop these smart city systems or the smart city plans that we sort of have to then roll out across Australia in the world of if everything works out well, which is sort of what we're working on, which I think is going to be pretty cool because the way things are going, I mean, I'm a bit paranoid, a bit scared about where the future is heading at the moment.

Speaker 1 (5m 27s): Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 (5m 29s): I think we're, we're on a rollercoaster man.

Speaker 1 (5m 31s): The ability is definitely the key. And so I did read somewhere that one of your people you looked up to was like Elon Musk and the people like that. And you know, I know that definitely working towards

Speaker 2 (5m 42s): It's. It's an interesting thing, right? Yellow Musk is this hero of today because of free speech. Like he just bought Twitter

Speaker 1 (5m 48s): Yesterday, $42 billion of cash lying around.

Speaker 2 (5m 55s): It's fascinating, but the fascinating thing him, right, as you think Elon Musk is this great, amazing person, but what he's doing, like, I think you were on the flip side of things, he's creating the biggest surveillance system we have around the world with all these Teslas, with all the cameras they got is planting microchips into people's heads. Sure. The intention is to help people with their sort of neurodiseases, if you're going to connect the, the, the brain to your spine. And if you've got a sort of spinal injury paralyzing, you can reconnect those two things. So it's good to that, but there's also the negative side of things. But I think that came from the whole him trying to stop artificial intelligence and nobody would listen to him.

So then the flip side of that was, well, if you can't beat him, join him. And if I can get artificial intelligence into us first, then we can actually understand how damaging this is going to be. And actually hopefully stop it.

Speaker 1 (6m 38s): Yeah. Like obviously, yeah, but there's going to be a flip side to all technology and we all know that, you know what I mean? Like, so you can use it for good exit for bad. And I know that's why psychology back early was something that they tried to suppress because they didn't want people using it for bad button. You can't, it needed it for good. So it was like, you know, and I'm sure all we didn't know now, like with media, I mean, they are using it to manipulate us and make us think so there is that side of it, but then you've got to learn to use it for good and try to block that out.

Because if you weren't about that all the time, then we're not going to grow as, as a, as a species. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (7m 16s): That's the fascinating, as you just said, the whole media side of things now, Elon Musk owns one of the biggest media platforms in the world privately. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (7m 22s): But I'd rather it be him than some of the people that currently owning them. So that's my little side, but yeah. So yeah. Well I'll mention heavy. So Hemi is, well, I grew up with you and I met Hemi, what, five, six years old, long time ago now. And that's how I ended up meeting yourself. And yeah, we just thought it'd be fun to bring Hemi along. Like Hemi is very intelligent. There's a lot of conversations I've had with him over the years. My

Speaker 2 (7m 47s): And his conversations.

Speaker 1 (7m 48s): Yeah. And there's always, always adds value. So I think it's great that you come along Harry and say Hemi, he does a lot of videography when it comes to creativity, marketing, that type of stuff. I know he does a lot of stuff for you and he's got other clients as well. So yeah. I welcome as well, Hemi and yeah, no worries. And yeah.

You said after the 18 hours, you're allowed to work on someone else. Yeah. So yeah. So let's just dial it back a bit too. And just, we'll say like, nothing's really off limits here. So feel free to, you know, say, fuck shit, whatever you want, or you're talking about whatever it is we're going to talk about. And we can edit it out later if we want, but we'll try not to. So yeah. So where did you guys grow up and tell us a little bit about your childhoods.

Speaker 4 (8m 47s): So I grew up in both of us, grew up in Christchurch. I know grow, grew up other places beforehand, but my formative years were in Christchurch crush. Crush was a bit of a storm of a city. It, everything was, everything was kind of enriched from a very young age. And on the flip side of that, everything was also out of reach. So you could have big ideas and big ideas, but you just didn't have the money to get there.

Or it didn't have the connections to get there, or it didn't have the context to get there. And it wasn't. And, and for me, I found myself lost in my ideas. I found my, I found myself even unable to ask the right questions to get to the places I actually want it to be. And it wasn't until I actually left Christchurch and come across to Australia where I actually felt like I started to, to grow and to escape the system.

I come to understand that I'd lock myself into.

Speaker 1 (9m 58s): Yeah.

Speaker 4 (9m 59s): Yeah. So, and it wasn't until probably the last five years that I realized that it, it was myself that locked myself into the system. I wasn't held backward at all.

Speaker 1 (10m 11s): Yeah. Okay. So is this, are you talking about like school or are you just talking about in general or

Speaker 4 (10m 17s): I'm talking about everything? I blamed a lot of things on school. I blamed a lot of things on growing up. I blamed a lot of things on my childhood, my restrictions,

Speaker 1 (10m 27s): That victim mentality, that we've all been there. I've definitely been there. So,

Speaker 4 (10m 31s): And it wasn't until I left New Zealand and started looking back that I could see from my perspective. So many of my friends were still sitting there having the same conversations, waiting for the government to change their life. And I've used that you used that explanation many times now, and I can still look back now and I can still see people sitting in the same position that they were 10, 15 years ago, talking this, having the same conversation is still waiting for the government to come along and change the situation for them.

Speaker 1 (11m 6s): And the funny thing is the flip side of this. And I heard someone talk about this recently and it really resonated with me is the same people that want the government to do all this stuff for you. But then when the government takes control and does something like mandates a vaccine, then they're all sudden they don't want the government. You can't have it both ways, either the government does everything for you. And then they can decide like, things like that or the government does nothing for you and you have all the freedoms. So it's kind of, does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. So it's kind of like, you gotta, you gotta take ownership of your own life and not worry about the government.

And then when stuff like this comes up, then you, it doesn't affect you as much because you're not relying on the government and then they can't twist you to conform to, to them because you're not relying on them. And one little bit, does that make sense?

Speaker 4 (11m 52s): I think for a lot of years, myself, I didn't know how to take control of my own life. I think I'm still just starting to get a handle on that right now.

Speaker 1 (12m 0s): Yeah.

Speaker 4 (12m 1s): I did not learn those skills and it seems stupid, but

Speaker 1 (12m 7s): So you think that was because of, and I'm breaking like that from your parents or

Speaker 4 (12m 13s): You may have been across between a religious upbringing. Yup. So just

Speaker 1 (12m 21s): To clarify all, I felt people that

Speaker 4 (12m 22s): I was, I was born a woman family, and it was nothing I bucked. It was nothing I pushed hard back against until sport took over when I was about 13 years old, but I didn't replace that. And I didn't know what to replace it with once I came out and I also knew too much, so I wasn't ready to be told what to do, how to do it, how to think it, how to understand it.

So I had, I had to do it the hard way I had to do a lot of things the hard way. Yeah. But it, it, I, I didn't know how to get out of my own way. And I think that was one of the biggest problems and I'm still learning it right now, but I'm getting out of my own way, has really what has really been what's helped me get forward right now.

Speaker 1 (13m 22s): Okay. So there'll be a lot of people at home on I myself and maybe yourself are resonating with what you're saying. Like, yeah. I'm always in my own way. So is there any like one particular thing or is it a number of things? Like, what is it that you did or what was it that sort of clicked that you were like, you know what, I, in my own way and give some people some, some tools that they can take home now and start implementing them.

Speaker 4 (13m 43s): I would sit hard boundaries very quickly and I wouldn't step outside of those boundaries.

Speaker 1 (13m 51s): Okay.

Speaker 4 (13m 51s): So with a, they, they weren't intentional boundaries either. They were on reflection. They were some will set out of fear. Some will sit out of financial position in some ways CIT 'cause. I didn't think I could do better or do more somewhere. I knew I could, but I was maybe, maybe I in thinking about it now, maybe I sit them because if I sit them there, I wouldn't fail.

So what sort of boundaries of talking about achievement boundaries? Give us an example. I was scared to grow and expand a company purely out of, out of the thought that it would be a bigger failure than what it would be if it was smaller. And it seems absolutely stupid right now,

Speaker 1 (14m 48s): Looking

Speaker 4 (14m 48s): Back at it, it looks, it sounds ridiculous, but it was, yeah. And that was a real hurdle I had to overcome.

Speaker 2 (14m 54s): So when you're saying you put a boundary around that, has that a boundary or is that opening a boundary?

Speaker 1 (14m 58s): I ask the questions you might start

Speaker 4 (15m 4s): I think, I think the mental block I put on myself actually being able to expand further was, was put there as an excuse to not get in and not do the work.

Speaker 1 (15m 16s): Yeah. Hm.

Speaker 4 (15m 17s): Okay. I could be seen to be doing enough. I felt like I was doing enough and I didn't feel like I had to tip over the edge and do more. And it wasn't until I, it wasn't until I found fitness. And in finding fitness, I found a new level, an old familiar level of accountability that I'd let go out of my life for a long time. And as I found fitness, and as I had those small, a whole series of small individual goals, the big goals got smaller and the walls came down and then I couldn't answer to myself why they were there in the first place.

Speaker 1 (16m 1s): Yeah. I know for me personally, like exercise and gym is, is the glue that holds me together. Like once that area of my life, like recently I've had injury centers, my exercise goes like my mental toughness. Cause you are challenging it every day you grow, it's like a muscle, like you grow that, that grit, that termination and that kind of Withers away. And then we, your diet goes away because you're like, you know, you're not striving towards exercise goals. So you kind of, you know, you start eating a bit more, you know, crappy food and then, you know, enough news, I'm a little bit bored.

So I might have a beer, you know what I mean? Like everything kinda of always around, well, for me personally, a voluntary and fitness and I'm not the only one. So I, I can't recommend fitness and gym or it doesn't have to be gym. It can be, you know, cross country, buddy CrossFit everyone's, you know, CrossFit or whatever it is that it's, it is the glue that moving your physiology is be known to, you know, greatly enhance, you know, your mindset greatly enhance every part, you know, we're meant to move. Like we, we come from a lineage of, you know, always active and always moving.

And now we, a lot of us are in office, you know, we're not moving. So that activity is even more so important for us and our mental health. So it's no surprise that that is.

Speaker 4 (17m 17s): I found, I found a position with fitness in my life and in my lifestyle where I could use it as a reset throughout the day, whether it or done a eight hour day or a 23 hour day, that hour or that time, I took for myself to go to the gym and reset. My mind really helped me set up what I was going to do next, even though it had no connection to it at all. Other, other than being in my own head in my own space.

Speaker 2 (17m 46s): It's also a form of meditation too, that when you go to the gym, you know, sort of as honors force Navy says, you know, that was his meditation. It was focusing on at one muscle as you're contracting and the likes of doing exercise and that sort of stuff. I did a similar thing after I sort of realized I became an alcoholic and sort of thing. I was like, well, I need to lose some weight. So I got into cake fighting and so jumped

Speaker 1 (18m 8s): In it. And I ran away from that.

Speaker 2 (18m 10s): If I don't push myself hard here, I'm gonna get my ass kicked in the ring.

Speaker 1 (18m 14s): There's nothing more inspirational than that. And I've been there too. I've had a few fights in the ring and yet, like my level of accountability goes through the roof because it's like, I don't want to lose for one and two. I don't want to have to say at the end of it while I could, if I didn't have them be as, or I didn't have them food or whatever. So yeah. A hundred percent agree with that one.

Speaker 2 (18m 39s): Good accountability. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18m 41s): Yeah. So your story sounds a little bit different too heavy. So you left school at 16. Yeah. But it sounds like it took him awhile to set them boundaries into let them walls drop down, but you jumped straight into business and you know, so what made you less fearful? I suppose, like, heck, you know, you just grew up in the same place, obviously what had a different upbringing, but what was it that, how did you have less fear and have that drive? Because a lot of people out there be wondering like, how do I set up a business?

Like, how do I start? Like, you know, where, where did it all start for you and, and, and give us some insight on, on what to do. And

Speaker 2 (19m 19s): For me, yeah, I left home when I left home, when I was 16, I left school when I was 16 and moved into a mate's house. And I got a job with what was like the Italian mafia and quotation marks of Christchurch. And so I started running up pizza shops for those guys, and then they set up nightclubs and then got into a whole bunch of trouble along that sort of lines, you know, making party pills and, and, you know, get into all that sort of mischief is, as you can imagine, we have black limousines picking us up every weekend and taking us deal with nightclubs, had fake IDs and that sort of stuff.

So I think that sort of aspect of my life coming started from a young age, I got rid of that potty stage in my life. You know, what most people sort of stop, you know, 18, 19 20. I started when I was 16. So I got that out of my system. And then I sort of learned how to run business through the Italian guys and how to make money and how to hustle and, you know, buy this and sell that and, you know, just get creative. And so that sort of opened my mind to, to the limitless opportunities of, of making money from there.

I ended up getting back into study again when I sort of settled down and found myself with a good Christian girlfriend at the time. Absolutely awesome. She sort of helped keep me accountable. And then I started studying and did my episode personal training. So that got me back into the fitness and that sort of helped that side of things. I also did a fashion design course, which was part of the thing I sort of wanted to start with a mate of mine who ended up committing suicide. And so then I tried to finish that dream and then realize how much hard work goes into making clothes and competition with international sweat shops and that sort of stuff to realize there's a lot of hard work and not enough money.

So that sort of didn't follow through with that in the end. And then one day Hemi sort of sent me a message after he'd moved to Australia and he goes, look, I'll pay for your flights, come on over. And yeah, come, come do stuff over here. And so I sort of took him up on that opportunity and crashed on his couch for a while. And we carried on the party thing for a few years. Didn't we? And And, and once again, found myself a nice, good Christian girlfriend that was sort of my sanctuary from, from our own house.

And, and through her and her dad, I ended up sitting at my first business when I was 22. I ended up getting married when I was 20 2010 to 22, 23 as well. So that was a good sort of accountability thing and sort of sitting down and sort of really focusing on business in life and my future and, and that sort of things, which was, which was good.

Speaker 1 (21m 54s): So she's been a very big advocate and asset for you like your businesses and helping.

Speaker 2 (22m 1s): Yeah, because my head is way up here. Right? She's my anchor. She pretty much, which is, which is good. I need that. I need like, exactly my CTO is the same that we call them. We call my CEO the handbrake. Right. But my wife is my Rocky and it's just, she keeps me really, really subtly grounded and it's it's and she always plays devil's advocate, lets me be me. This me do exactly what I want to do whenever I want to do it. However I want to do with all the traveling and stuff and the chaotic lifestyle that I have, but she says, Hey, what about this?

And what about that? And have you thought about this and have you thought about that, which sort of helps me process my ideas before I just dive straight in to figure it out along the way, which is cool, especially in the crypto side of things too, cause she's heavily into the NFT side of things. Hey, check out this project and check out that project. These guys are doing something really interesting and you need to meet this person, go speak to him and say, it's really cool to sort of have like a, a partner in both business, but also in life who sort of understands me and gets me. And this may be me, which is the most important thing for me. But at the same time, you know, it's it's yeah.

She's she's, my world is pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (23m 5s): Yeah. No, that's awesome. That's really good to see. Cause I see a lot of people out there with their partner and just say if their business takes off, you know, and they're part of feels a bit of insecurity around that or a bit like inadequate and they will try and pull the other person down. Whereas it seems to me like you're both helping each other grow and move up further in that.

Speaker 2 (23m 23s): It's definitely, there'll be an easy, I mean, I'm a, I'm a hard person to live with. I have person to do business. This isn't for him. He can sort of tell you at the same time. I mean, he's, he's, he's made a few comments in the past about, you know, how chaotic my, my life is. I'm a fucking tornado that just comes Raleigh through. And he was like, all right, let's structure that tornado and Trump put something to this, right?

Speaker 1 (23m 42s): It's not natural from my end. He's just that much worse.

Speaker 2 (23m 47s): And, and so for her, we've been married 12 years this year. And so for her there's was a lot of learning curves along the way, trying to figure out who we are and how we work and how we work best. But you know, sort of coming to that sort of even playing field now where we sort of both understand what each other need and, and I mean, that's, it's taken a long time, but at the same time, it's it's every day just gets better and better. And you sort of need that person. Who's like, when you go into a relationship, you need someone who is your partner, not just your misses or your trophy or whatever it might be.

You need someone who's going to grow with you. And somebody that thinks along the same sort of way, somebody that can is on the journey with you as opposed to somebody who's there as a, as you know, sidekick sort of thing, you know? I mean,

Speaker 1 (24m 31s): Yeah, for

Speaker 2 (24m 31s): Sure. It's the best way to whether it be an order mean?

Speaker 1 (24m 33s): Yeah. So you've been real mad at 2223. So how old are you now? Sorry.

Speaker 2 (24m 38s): 34 34

Speaker 1 (24m 40s): CB married 12 years. So I'm single at 37. So you've got way more experienced than me. Please explain to me what are the , if you could name a few things that could benefit people when it comes to relationships, what's worked for you and what's worked in your relationship and what are some key points or aspects that you feel are important for building a solid foundation and a good relationship like you have with your new newer?

Speaker 2 (25m 8s): Well, one of those things is obviously trust. I mean, you have to have that trust and relationship. You have to have the openness, you have to have that communication, which obviously develops the trust and the openness as well. You have to let the person know exactly who you are and what you want in life at the very, very start and sort of where you're heading and keep that communication open. Keep that going. Because if you outgrow that other person, as you said before, you know, they're going to get, they're going to try and either one pull you down or you're going to outgrow that. And then you know that season's going to pass and it's, it's hard to it's it's hard to build that trust because you know, we are wild animals, especially that's been But obviously it's, it sounds cliche, but trust is the biggest thing.

And three is the communication. You just know how you need to let them know how you're feeling and keep that, keep that constant development going.

Speaker 1 (26m 5s): I think that's interesting. Cause a lot of times I think in relationships, people assume the other person knows how they're feeling or assumes that the person gets it, but we're not right. We're not mind readers. Right. So, so me like miscommunication that has to be 9% of like fights and you know what I mean? Like there's some sort of miscommunication or misunderstanding around something and you know, sometimes you have to spell it at like a six year old, you know what I mean? Especially male and female was so frigging different. Like yeah. So yeah, communications definitely.

Speaker 2 (26m 36s): Yeah. And building together, whether it's, you know, your, your fitness, your life, your health, your, your business, whatever it might be is, is making sure that you're a team and working as a team along the way too, because if you're not working as a team and I've, I've stuffed this up a lot, but it's bringing the other person into what you're doing, which is sort of what my wife, Lisa and I are doing at the moment is the whole NFT side of things. You know, we've got a shared vision now, whereas prior to that, we both lived two different existing lives. She's, she's a top dog trainer in, in, in Australia with scent detection, right.

And that's her area and that's not really of interest to me with the whole dog. So things I'm in the business with all my different businesses and, and traveling and doing that sort of things. But now we've sort of found this common ground with cryptocurrency and our, I mean, she's been trading shares and she was 16 years old. So she's always been into the sort of investing side of things. So now we've sort of come together in this journey and you know, our home office, we've got two desks side by side and she does her thing and I do my thing and we're sort of working on the same sort of projects together. And I'm getting advice from her because she's more edited more into it than I am at the moment. She's more into the communities and stuff. So that's been really, really cool and really, really fun.

And so having that sort of shared vision and sort of finding that sort of common ground definitely makes relationships a hell of a lot easier. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27m 47s): Yeah. So there's not, you're not in each other's pockets and I think too much you night, especially you do a lot of trouble in that as well. I suppose,

Speaker 2 (27m 55s): Keep it, keeping that opportunity to, to have the ability. So for example, I've got a business lounge that I'm a part of. And so when I needed that sort of space, I can, I can just jump into the city and, and work out of there. And that sort of gives me that space, but then I also travel a lot for work, which, you know, time PI helped him as a partner. And so not always be in each other's faces obviously beneficial to the relationship so that you can have your own personal space too, and do your own thing. So travel does help with that a little bit, providing another way for too long at a time. Usually I spend one week a fortnight up in Brisbane here based out of I live in Sydney.

So that's a little bit too much one week a fortnight, but trying to make that as effective as possible. So I don't have to do it as often as possible. So my business travels that is, and then sort of get home and, and date days, another very important thing, making sure you have that sort of either day or sort of at least an evening dedicated to each other so that you can have that time to hang out just you and you and her and easy said and done because I don't have kids. And I also don't plan to have kids, whereas people with kids, you know, obviously that's not as easy, but sort of trying to set that time apart to, to spend with each other is also very important.

Speaker 1 (28m 59s): So was that a conscious decision at the start of relationship? You suppose didn't want kids? Or was that something?

Speaker 2 (29m 4s): No, I wanted six kids. I had the At the very, very start. I said to her, I said, look, I want six kids. And she's like, yeah, I can talk him down to two. All right. And for me it was, I love that family time sitting around the table and say, Hey, how was your day? Yeah, we did that when I was kids. I really treasure that as opposed to sitting in front of the TV and having the TV dinner. Right. It's disassociated, you know, you're not working, so you're not communicating and you're not having that real family time. But sitting around the table for me was a very, very cool, important thing growing up and sharing, sharing your day and your experiences and what's been going on and having a real family.

Right. So I think there's a very important thing. One with families. So I wanted that. And then, and then I got a dog. I was like, fuck this dogs a lot of hard work. What kids are going to be like, you know, like if I think a dog's have like, imagine what kids, cause I got really short temper. I mean, with everything that's going on in life, I snap, you know, and I, I have, I've had a lot of anger issues sort of growing up and especially in business and, and trying to work on that temperament was, was, was not easy, which is where the sort of fitness side of things comes into it and the meditation side of things, but really struggled with that on, but dabbled in meditation quite a bit too, which sort of brought my temper down.

But yeah, having a dog was a lot of work and I really realized that sort of bought out my, my maybe realize how angry I sorta got and how quickly I snapped. I thought, man, kids are going to be a little, but can I actually put up with kids and my wife's wife, same thing. She's like, man, you got a temper on you. You know, like if you think that those how we can measure what kids going to be like. And so that's, I thought about that a lot and, and sort of, yeah. Then one day sort of decided, you know what, let's, let's make that permanent.

Speaker 1 (30m 48s): Yeah. Okay. What'd your wife.

Speaker 2 (30m 50s): She was with it too. She was all for it just based on my lifestyle and the career that I sort want to have. And, and, you know, my legacy is my business and, and, and what I'm trying to develop, you know, the whole smart city side of things. And I listen to space rockets as well. I advise a space rocket company. And so my this career and this sort of what I've got, I've got a 1000 year plan. And that 1000 year plan is to really help us as humanity rethink the way we live and, and what our cities look like. And that sort of things too.

And so it's gonna, I mean, I'm not even going to see the end of this legacy, obviously. I mean, we're getting close to that technology, but not quite yet.

Speaker 1 (31m 28s): Yeah. And I think that's a really important distinction that you've found that yeah, that's a tough decision to make, to not have kids. You know, that's something that a lot of couples would probably start to struggle with, but I think it's important for people to know that want to get into business or whatever. Like it's, it's not easy if you want to have a legacy, like, you know, kids may not be an option because it's hard to, to be able to do both, you know, okay.

Speaker 2 (31m 54s): I can do the things I'm doing with kids. Not at all. I wouldn't get to travel as much. I wouldn't be able to the business.

Speaker 1 (32m 1s): Exactly. So I think that's a real responsible and mature.

Speaker 2 (32m 5s): So the biggest investment you can make, they are the biggest investment you make because that kid could be the person that creates that legacy. Right. And if you have that kid and you don't bring them up, right. It doesn't have the right morals and ethics and, and sort of mindset that you impart onto their kid. We should impart onto that kid. Then who's that kid going to grow up to be in? Is he going to be the next Dr. Evil or is he going to be the next Elon Musk?

Speaker 1 (32m 30s): So can you attribute like your drive, your determination, your thought and that to your parents instilled that you, or is that something that you feel like you've kind of got more of your own way with?

Speaker 2 (32m 44s): It's actually quite interesting. So my mum and dad still married today and what was brought up in a Christian family and absolutely amazing beautiful parents. And we went over to Israel as missionaries when I was, I think, seven and I spent about four and a half years over there. So I've got that sort of spiritual upbringing and which gave me accountability and having seen everything over in Israel with my own eyes, you know, so the whole spirituality thing was grounded.

Like you cannot deny it after, after, you know, walking in the footsteps of Jesus, literally, right. And up technically I probably should be dead right now with all the terrorist attacks and everything that was going on over there. The ketchup bus to school every day and the bus that was, we were on number that's number 19 bus number 18, use the blood once a fortnight similar route, except for that went off at the end. I walked out of school one day to see the aftermath, what sort of see a guy diffusing, a bomb, you know, going through that whole bomb, the fuse, the process, I'm just sitting there watching him as a sort of nine year old kid going Hobart. This is cool, you know, the green suit and everything like that.

So that, that sort of thing sort of really instilled a sense of spirituality into my life, which gave me that accountability. And that, yeah, I'm not gonna rip you off in business because I'm not afraid of you. I'm afraid to go up. Right. So that sort of gives me that sort of, what do you call it? Honesty, sorta that morals and business as well. And that there's still that end to me in my life. Then my grandfather did big entrepreneur, gold mines, construction business, you know, he built, I think it was 9,000 houses in Christchurch, New Zealand.

He's done a lot of really interesting things in his life, although he wasn't really there for his kids and sort of, I sort of experience the, that fix of that through my mum and sort of her upbringing hearing her stories. Then my grandfather on the other side, you know, is a, is a really well accomplished orthodontist. So he's had his own business too. And then my dad ex-army, so they had the whole discipline side of things there and his work ethics. And like, he, he gets jobs because people know his, what's the word ethics.

And just say like, I know Mike, I know he's an honest, hardworking man from reputation. Here's the contract.

Speaker 1 (35m 2s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35m 2s): Cool. Don't even ask about price. Here's the job because we trust you. Right. So that's, that's what my dad is. And yeah. So, so I think those traits came through my mom's a super spiritual woman too. Like she's a, she's a cargo for God. I mean, like, she goes nuts, man. She, she will, she will come up as a, Hey, do you know Jesus, She's amazing. And she's an absolutely beautiful kindhearted woman. And same with my in-laws to sort of that mentored me through the whole business side of things.

Cause I ended up buying my in-law's business. My father-in-law did the lapidation reports and that's, that was my first business. I was the lapse in. So I bought his business building for laps after he sort of mentored me through those guys, man, super spiritual heart of gold. And you know, they would just give it that would give their last dollar and the shit off the back. If you asked for it sort of thing. Absolutely amazing people. So growing up around people like that and being mentored by people like that have sort of got me to where I am today.

Speaker 1 (35m 60s): Yeah. That's awesome. Cause we definitely need more entrepreneurs and business people like yourself. Cause you see a lot of people, they get the status and it goes to their head and you know, there's a lot of studies where, you know, people in position of power. I think that Harvard study that he's heard about the Harvard study about the fake prison.

Speaker 2 (36m 21s): No.

Speaker 1 (36m 22s): So what they did is they got a heap of like 20, 50 people. Right. And they had to like pull out of a hat and it was all the prisoner or guard, you know, I mean, and they knew this was like a study. Like they knew this was not real. And they had prisoners and they had guards and the people that were guards, even though they knew it was a study, they knew it was like not real. The power went to their head and they started like beating on the prisoners and they had to stop the study because they were beaten the prisoners that bad And just showed how, because like status and power has been such a big thing for us, for our survival.

You know? I mean like you had to be the toughest guy in the tribe to dis-invite, you know, I mean to, to get even mate or to survive. So people, when they get power, they try to abuse it to keep their power because it's instilled into us as, you know, hundreds of years of years. So we need to be very aware of that and be able to curve that and knowing that stuff that's coming up in our lives for people that are going up in power and status. Yeah. You see it in the corruption when you see like governments and stuff like that, like that's just the same, same thing.

Like I feel like they've gone into business or government or whatever for the right intentions. But once they've got that power urges have come over them, they haven't been aware enough. I haven't been, haven't got the ethics without bringing that. Maybe you've had that, that have been able to curve that. So I think that's, yeah, I think it's a Testament to yourself man. And congratulations,

Speaker 2 (37m 46s): It sort of leads me on to this discussion of stoicism. One of the sort of best things I ever got into is stoicism it's it's is a really good book by a guy called Ryan holiday.

Speaker 1 (37m 58s): He's

Speaker 2 (37m 58s): Written books, man. And so ego is the enemy is, is one specifically based on that topic, then it just talks about how power does gets you and corrupts you in. And it's, it is something that destroys people and, and if you're getting to business their business or relationships, you know, because you think you're the alpha male in the relationship where you should be equal partners, ego is the worst thing that can happen to anybody. You know, like it really destroys a character and it's an installed system is a really good thing.

So that, that the four stoic virtues are wisdom, courage, temperance, and what's going mind blank. One last one was encouraged templates and

Speaker 1 (38m 39s): What's the one temp

Speaker 2 (38m 40s): Temperance. So it's like everything in moderation.

Speaker 1 (38m 44s): Ah, okay. I was going to say temperament. And I was like, have you told him

Speaker 2 (38m 48s): Typically some moderation and oh my goodness, I'm having my back. And the last one who come to me, but going through, going through stoicism, I think has really, really helped me both in my personal life and my business life and really sort of helps you sort of slow down a bit and really appreciate the present moment and, and your relationships and your blessings that you have and, and the courage to stand up for the things you believe in. But it was so the mentality towards to be humble and to realize that you don't know everything moderation, I think is another big thing for me, especially with alcohol, you know, like I really enjoy at the end of the day, like I'm a wine being a lovable, really passionate about it.

Speaker 1 (39m 28s): We're currently doing a 75 hard, so no drink of 75

Speaker 2 (39m 31s): Days and go,

Speaker 1 (39m 32s): I struggle. It Henry's like this easy.

Speaker 2 (39m 36s): Yeah. So I, I love my wine. And so, so the moderation has been a really, really a good thing. You know, I sort of almost wanted to get the number three tattooed on my wrist cause you know, nothing good happens out the class number three. So yeah, it stoicism, I highly recommend getting into that too. Like it just gives you peace. It really does inside and out. It just gives you peace.

Speaker 1 (39m 57s): Okay. So on that note, what are some books practices or something that people can tangible that people can take home now to look into this and to help them through their journey of,

Speaker 2 (40m 10s): I would say anything from Ryan holiday, cause he's one of the biggest advocates for stoicism at the moment. Right? So if you just search his books, stillness is the key man. That is probably my number one most recommended book. And I think

Speaker 1 (40m 23s): The only one I've read up from him is the obstacles away. We

Speaker 2 (40m 25s): Went to.

Speaker 1 (40m 27s): I still want us, I'll put that on my 50,000 books I want to read. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40m 31s): Yeah. So stillness is, the keys were really, really good book. It sort of takes into a, it does sort of case studies on people, for example, like tiger woods and what developed tiger woods is the person. And, and he had a really rough upbringing with fricking insane dad who was just so aggressive and just

Speaker 1 (40m 49s): Tool it's him and he's golf or just in general,

Speaker 2 (40m 50s): Him in general towards target in general and just, you know, how he used to yell abuse at him while he's trying to tee off, you know, calling him absolute fucking worthless and this and that. And the other cause he knew was he knew his strings to tug on to really make him, you know, man. And he had a key word, which was, you know, it's enough. He would never say that's enough. Right. Because that was, that was classifying him as a pussy. Right. So he's like, exactly. Right. And, and so it had some

Speaker 1 (41m 21s): Exhibit I also the gym today.

Speaker 2 (41m 26s): So highly recommend stillness is key just to sort of give you the, the overall perspective of what stoicism is, but then the rest of the books, you know, he's got a book called lives of the Stoics and that's, it takes you right back to the very beginning of where stoicism was. And, and that was, you know, it's also referenced in the Bible too, you know how Paul went through RO Greece and, you know, sort of all the people that were sort of talking on the porch, which is where sort of stoicism started because they'd just sit there and talk philosophy and took life and what is all about. And so it's got some really good sort of stories in on the history of, of all the stars or the Stoics and run I'm reading.

I think you'll be reading it too. Courage is calling and that's a really good book, especially for now two way because it sort of talks about how

Speaker 4 (42m 12s): Running your lines.

Speaker 2 (42m 13s): Yeah, yeah. Drawing the lines. And also a case study on that lady, who's a nurse, what's her name. And she, she was the first ever female Florence Nightingale. That's one, a cool case study on her and how her courage made her to who she is as a hero and the whole nursing side of things being one of the female first female nurse that sort of went in there. But then when people said, no, you can't do that. She's like, well stuff, you want to do it in a way these soldiers are dying. I need to help them. And she would go from room to room and see all these people, you know, like that was very, very frowned upon.

So like stories like that with a whole courageous side of things, creating you as a, as a cool, honest human being, that's out there to make a difference. And, and so that for me has been really encouraging as well.

Speaker 1 (42m 56s): Yeah. Cool. So I want to talk about, about mental health and if there's been moments in your life and your life Hemi, where you felt depressed, anxious, or felt like, you know, life isn't going the way you want it to go. And I'd like to sort of like dive into, into that. And then from that, like what, what did you do to like help yourself get out of it and stuff like that. So I had a, I know I've known you for a while and you know, we've both had our ups and downs in that time.

So

Speaker 4 (43m 31s): Yeah. Mine's going to lead back to my introduction and getting out of my own way. So through setting targets, low sitting goals, low and understanding that I've set them well below my capability and missing them, missing them because of drinking, missing them because of excuses missing them, because I couldn't be bothered. They, these things over time started to really add up and take a really massive toll on me.

So I found myself in a rollercoaster of, I see it now it's depression, anxiety and depression. Yeah. And it was flip-flopping. And I, it's interesting looking back on Facebook. So you go back to the Facebook stories of today and I go back and

Speaker 1 (44m 26s): Sometimes I shake my head and I look at my Facebook stuff.

Speaker 4 (44m 31s): Th there's that, but for me, it's almost a journal. It's almost a journal of what I was going through back then. That doesn't exist now. Yeah. There were things I can see the roller coasters and I can jump straight back to that moment because I remember them so clearly. And looking back, I could see, I could just stand to the side and get past it. But in the time it was everything. It was massive. I couldn't get out. I couldn't, I couldn't see a way up.

I couldn't see your way around it. And I didn't understand any of it at all. I had no tools for it. If I did have the tools, I didn't know how they worked and I didn't know they were applicable there. So I did a lot of years, or those are always in groups and always around people. I did a lot of years by myself, whether it was hiding behind drinking, hiding behind partying, hiding behind myself.

I did a lot of time by myself in my own head, frustrated that I couldn't work out something so simple sitting in front of me yet in my, in my work life, I could see holes in systems everywhere and just have solutions for everybody else. But I could not see the solutions that I could not take a step back and actually see what was going on for myself. So that was, that was massive frustration point for me in my life.

And it got to the point where my partner at the time walked me in and told me I was depressed and sent me in to get antidepressants. And that was probably the worst, the worst part of my life when I got on these antidepressants, because it wasn't an answer. What it did was it clipped the highest and it clipped the lows. So I was on this flat line of nothing. No, not feeling anything, not getting anywhere.

At that point in time, Jim was removed from my life due to multiple, multiple things. It's time, financial, whatever that rollercoaster was throwing at me. I wasn't doing the things that I even realized I needed to be doing. I thought it was just getting along, getting by making money, but there wasn't fixing anything. So it wasn't until I finally went back into a doctor and maybe controversial bay, he looked at what I was on and the strength of what I was on.

And he said, get off it. It's poisoning you. Yeah. This isn't what you need. And we went through what I should, what I shouldn't be doing, what, what are struggling with what it wasn't. And he basically told me to not in the, not in the words go to the gym, but he, he walked me through what I was missing and what I used to enjoy, what I didn't. And it was funny that I ended up back going to the gym and in nearly 30 days, my life flipped around.

Speaker 1 (47m 56s): Yeah. Well, and that's, I can't recommend it enough. And I'm exactly the same. Like, anytime Wildlife's gone bad, I can guarantee you that my gym is not where I want it. You know what I mean? Like a hundred percent.

Speaker 4 (48m 8s): So to isolate that a little bit more, it wasn't, I don't think it was specifically the gym, but what I did was I brought in a voluntary accountability. So I work, I had to go there. I had to bring money, but Jim, I didn't have to go there.

Speaker 1 (48m 27s): Yeah.

Speaker 4 (48m 27s): I volunteered to be accountable to that. And I think once I volunteered to be accountable to that, and I started succeeding at something that was a little win and I kept on it. Actually they were books like Jordan, Jordan, Peterson's 12 rules for life. Or I can't remember. It was one of his lectures and he talked about little, little wins, aim, low, the aim lots.

Speaker 1 (48m 56s): Yeah. And in a lot of people, he talks about, sorry to cut you off there, but there's something he'd just listened to him the other day. And he was saying, a lot of us, our egos are too big that we won't bring ourselves down to get that little wings. Cause we think it's not enough. Like I did that little wind. It's not gonna change my lifestyle. I'm not going to bring myself down to do it. But that's the point like it's to get that momentum up, then little wins, turn into a little bit bigger wins centers and you've got to get that momentum happening. So it could just be waking up and having a fucking glass of water, right?

Like something that you think is very trivial or something that, but one that does a heat for your hydration, which, you know, your mental clarity, your health, it's all the things that spurt from that one little goal that one little win. And it's, it's, it has a lot to do with your, you know, your self respect. Because every time you don't do something that you're going to do, you're you lose respect for yourself. So if you aim low and you get it, it's building that, self-respect going, you know what? I can like set a goal and I can achieve it.

So yeah, I'm fucking heaps. The low,

Speaker 4 (50m 0s): Just lots of little targets. And they just started clocking off. And before I knew it, I was aiming way up and way out. And all of these shackles that I sort of felt like I had on me were just gone. Absolutely. Just sort of fallen away and in such a short period of time. And I say short, it was over months, but compared to how long I've been shackled, that was my whole life. Yeah. So these few months really just let everything kind of drop off and just gain, gained this new momentum, gained this new vision and lease on life.

So for me, I had extremely negative experience with the antidepressants.

Speaker 1 (50m 47s): A lot of people,

Speaker 4 (50m 49s): Maybe for me coming off them was the biggest experience. Hmm. Because I don't think I would have it. Would've had as bigger jump as what I would have from where I was to where I got to.

Speaker 1 (51m 4s): Yeah. It's funny looking back on stuff and you know what I mean, it's cliche, as it sounds like there is always connecting the dots, you know what I mean? Like every time something bad, quite bad, or, you know, I mean, some that's happening in my life later on, I look back on it and it was the catalyst towards something. It was, there was a purpose or reason. And you know what I mean? That's the whole point of, I think having faith in the divine universe or in God or whatever it is that you believe, like there's some, you can't deny the, that there's something else bigger at play that, that helps us guides us in our consciousness now, you know what I mean?

Yeah. So that's, that's, that's a massive one for anyone at home, or like you said, that that's absolutely awesome. That's a really key point is yeah. Aim low. Just, just get yourself going. It doesn't have to be much just tick off them little boxes and just keep, keep them gone and keep it

Speaker 4 (51m 57s): Gone in the morning

Speaker 1 (51m 59s): And setting goals. Like I can't like perfect sample. Like I've had some injuries lately, like tore my Peck. Then when that got better, I popped my back again and you know what I mean? Then I went overseas and a lot like, you know, drinking and just my life kind of like, you know, got a bit of a, got a bit shaky and then it wasn't until I just set myself a goal of doing the 75 heart, like in an instant just setting the end goal was enough to click me back because obviously, you know, I've been there before, you know, I mean, so, and one thing about, I think life is we've got this roller coaster ride and the purpose is not to have the lows, the purposes that your rock bottom is now here.

Instead of last time it was here. You know what I mean? So you keep, you know what I mean? So you never go down low because you're, you're growing, you're getting tools. You know what I mean? So, you know, you're always going to have lows, but they're not going to go as low as what they were because you've got more tools. You've got more strategies. You've got more.

Speaker 4 (52m 58s): So I think it's really good to point out that it didn't, it didn't stay on an upward trajectory. Yeah. All right. So I got a good solid 10 months of doing well and things changing life changing. And then I had situations in scenes change on me again and other things unexpected to see it ripped out from under me. And I found myself in a familiar position and totally being unable to no, I felt, I felt like I was without the tools to deal with it.

And I didn't even know where to look. I didn't know who to ask. I didn't know what to do. And then this one led on to something totally different was my first major psychedelic experience.

Speaker 1 (53m 44s): Yeah.

Speaker 4 (53m 45s): Sorry.

Speaker 1 (53m 46s): So I know you personally Hami, and I think you struggle to ask for help anyway, a hundred percent. So whether that's an ego thing or whatever the thing, and I think us as men, we tend to want to do it ourselves. You tend to want to, and you know, I'm such a big advocate of just fucking talking to your mate or talking to anyone doesn't matter who, because when we get caught up in our rumination, really our minds, what we think makes sense. But when you actually say the fucking thing out loud, you're like that doesn't make any sense.

You know what I mean? You can get caught up in it. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (54m 20s): And I think when I personally get caught there, I don't actually see that as an option. It's not there.

Speaker 1 (54m 27s): Yeah. Interesting.

Speaker 4 (54m 29s): Like it, people say, just ask, it's like, there's this block. It's not that I don't want help. I want help. Maybe I want help from certain angles or certain people. And there are always certain people and you do it a big for me. I, I know I can ask, but there are, I still have mental blocks where sometimes because I like doing things my way and fast and all at once. Sometimes it's just easier to do it by myself.

I don't want to help because it's, you know, I have to wait for help. I want to do it now. And it comes back to you getting out of my own way. Yeah. You know, that really is me in my own way, me wanting to do it by myself when I could really hand things off or split things up and divvy things up. So

Speaker 1 (55m 17s): Because, you know, w we we've come from a culture of, we lived in tribes, right. And everyone's got their place. Everyone helps each other out. And I think that's a real, this is a bit sidetracked, but that's a real big issue we have with today's society. And I mean, we expected to live, you know, sometimes you got single parents with like two kids or whatever. There's no help there. Like, whereas we've always had, you know, other tribe, people are other like grandparents looking after the kids, everyone's kind of contributing to the tribe everyone's contributing. So they're more open and honest.

They're more able to communicate because they've had to communicate. And I think that's a real big thing that we need to try and get back to you. Let's get back to community and get back to like the herd mentality. We'll get back to helping each other out. Cause that's what we are done for hundreds of thousands of years or whatever you believe. You know what I mean? So I think we need to be able to get back to being more connected without using technology, you know,

Speaker 4 (56m 12s): Oh, I'm going to ask a question, done that right now. How do now both Mike and I have grown up in religious backgrounds from, from religious as well. Now, as far as I see it's either a culture based community, like the race or culture that you're from or that the last remaining community. So I kind of see out there are religious based. How do you see people reconnecting as a community when this day and age everybody's driven by financial gain?

It's either working or it's not working on is doing community jobs, community help in the same way that they used to be able to well, that I was used to when I was growing up.

Speaker 1 (57m 2s): Yeah. I think that's like a brilliant question. It's really hard to answer definitively or answer it in one sort of like fell swoop. But I think the whole, I think as Rami whoever's said, you know, I think the smart thing you can do is just do, do work on yourself and do it for yourself and your family, and then hope that other people follow and hope that other people see that. And instead of trying to like change the world, just change yourself. Right. And, and lead by example and

Speaker 2 (57m 33s): Be the change you want to see in the world. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (57m 35s): Exactly. That's the quote I was looking for it wasn't coming to me, but yeah. That's how you still, the fourth one yet was stoicism. Yeah. So I think, yeah, I just, I just see a massive link between loss of connection and where we are as a species. And I think we need to somehow get that back. So maybe in your smart cities, we can work towards getting culture back, getting community back. I dunno how we have integrated that, but that's a good conversation.

That's a good question that we can talk about it and something that I think

Speaker 2 (58m 9s): Fourth one is wisdom. Is it

Speaker 1 (58m 10s): , what's the first one?

Speaker 2 (58m 15s): Courage wisdom. Temperance. Nope.

Speaker 1 (58m 22s): I walked into that one

Speaker 2 (58m 25s): With Jamie.

Speaker 1 (58m 29s): Yeah. So yeah. So yeah. Well, thanks for, for that fact Henry that's yeah. For letting us know a bit about your story in that. And so I'll move to you now. What's what has been your experience with mental health? Whether it's you family and what are some of the tools, strategies, or whatever it is that you've used to and how has that affected your life?

Speaker 2 (58m 52s): A whole bunch of different things that affect the mind being brought up in Israel. I used to get bullied a lot, being a foreigner. I'm just coming home from school crying every single day until my dad sits me down one day. And this is actually a back step a bit on this one. I was asked by my life coach to write out my life story and he gave me a week to do it. And so as I was traveling and I was on the plane and I was writing my story and I wrote this one point, which I'm about to tell you. And as I wrote this, tears came to my eyes. I'm singing, I'm playing a whole bunch of people around me.

And all of a sudden, as I just write this one line, just tears came to my eyes and I find it. It was a really, really definitive point in my life. It was when I came home from school one day, my dad just crashes down next to me. He goes, look, that's cause he's crying. He's being bullied and being out of a whole bunch of kids. And he goes, look, if somebody hits you, you hit them back. Right? And so I was, hang on, let me clarify this . So, because it was brought up in a Christian school, you know, violence was obviously not approved on why I don't think any school approves the violence, but that upbringing, I was never a fighter.

But then that point there, when I send that off from a life coach, he actually identified that and said, that is the point that you became a warrior. And he goes, that is the point that sorta changed your life because then you became a fighter. Then you sort of stood up for yourself and you didn't take any shit and got into a little bit trouble in life. You know, he got suspended from school for having a few fights and that sort of stuff. But you're at this point here, you're protecting your class at this point, Hey, you're protecting itself. And sort of highlighted these sort of points where I was actually like the warrior and sort of the persona of a warrior sort of standing up and being courageous and, and, and not taking any shit.

And then he goes, and then at this point here, you got done for a home invasion. And so, because you're trying to protect your sister who is ex boyfriend threatened to kill her and all that sort of stuff. Right? So around 18 years old doing something stupid, me and my brother went round to the house and be the share of this guy that threatened to kill my sister. And, and it goes, and then you got arrested and you did your community service. And at that point they, you stopped being a fighting warrior, but you became a warrior for God and you went to the prison ministry. And so then, cause I got back into church after that, you know, they said, look, you've got 700 hours of community service. And I said, can I do it through the church?

And that, so we'll go back into the church after the Italian mafia, days in quotation marks. And so going through the prison ministry side of things, I was mentoring kids on both life business, trying to inspire them to find their passion and all that sort of stuff as well, whole bunch of stories around that. Absolutely fascinating, really interesting experience, which I did for about four years. And then now I'm trying to become a warrior with my legacy side of things, you know, just so it's sort of evolved and turned into what I'm doing now, but the mental health side of that comes from that with the waves and the cycles in there.

There am I ever going to achieve this? Am I good enough to do this? Just the, the pressure and the expectations and the accountability of about 200 staff across the group, you know, and I feel responsible for every single one of them. So it's a huge burden on, I mean, it's not just me, I've got a good team know and that's surrounding yourself with a really good team is what's enabled me to get to where I am today. Obviously could not do it on my own, but that pressure and that accountability.

And, and the times where I don't think I have enough money to pay wages and I've gone through periods of this before, COVID for example, having to make people redundant and you know, the effect that that has on their life and, and, you know, it's a lot of stress and a lot of pressure. And so that's when things sort of every, all these sort of tools that I've sort of developed the, the stoicism, the reading, trying to do a bit of meditation, whatever form that might be, whether it be the gym or just going for walks in the morning or listening to a static podcast, or, you know, that sort of thing, taking time out for myself to, to rest and rejuvenate and not putting so much pressure on you, you don't have to work seven days a week, you know, having one day off, you know, even God took a day off and to having a wonderful week, we actually get to relax and just do you, they're the sort of things that keep you sane.

Otherwise you just go off the rails and you're not as productive or as effective. I mean, many holidays is the best thing you probably do for yourself. Take a day or two off, you know, like two or three days, there's always Sudanese. So I used to take a lot of little mini holidays and go out to the country and get an Airbnb with no reception, just for two or three nights. It took two or three nights and sort of just rejuvenate and reflect and journal. And I wish I journaled more like that. It's one of the things that I think is one of the most powerful tools you can ever do because coming through a set of stories like where you've been through and tracking that and recording that and saying, Hey, these are the things that worked for me in the past.

Maybe I need to get back on to that again. Maybe I need to go to the gym. Maybe I need to do another psychedelic session. Maybe I need to do this. I mean, maybe I need to get off the antidepressants again, because that helped me last time. Yeah. So it actually flicking back and just reflecting on the life that you've had and where you've come from. You know, there's a lot of people that have that PTSD. I had the best thing the other day was you don't have PTSD because that classifies as a disorder, that's an excuse. You have post traumatic growth because look how far you've come from that traumatic experience. And it's, it's about changing that, changing the mindset and sort of seeing what things have, have effected your life and, and got you to where you are.

Because me at 34, I've come through 34 years of chaos, both good and bad. It was chaos. Right. And, and people out there in, in much worse situations than I have. I mean, you are still here today. What got you to where you are now? What's, what's been the tools and what's been the tricks and, and, and journaling that as often as you can, helps you to track that progress and track that growth. And so it's things like that. There's sort of, I've got a book at home it's nice, really a little bound with a little string around it, with recycled paper in it.

So that's a really characteristic book and I like opening that and just sort of flicking through and saying, hi, you remember that? I did that. That was a shit day. I remember that one too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (1h 4m 55s): Yeah.

Speaker 2 (1h 4m 56s): It's good.

Speaker 1 (1h 4m 57s): Yeah. Okay. So yeah, I know for me, I've done a little bit of journaling. It's something that I don't do very regularly, but it's something that is always on that to-do list. So some tips for journaling. So you just journal in the morning at night. Do you journal just about your day or do you journal about

Speaker 2 (1h 5m 15s): Sitting at a bus stop if you're on a plane, if you wake up in the morning and having a coffee, having that quiet time, like if you can create it into your routine. Awesome. Right. Whether it be in a book, whether it be on your phone, on my phone, I've got my little notes. I just go into my notes on apple, on my phone. And I've created a page called the art of life. Right. And anything I read in a book that I like a stick in the out of life and sort of one day, hopefully I'll create my own book. So it tells my story. I actually got a few ideas for TV series and shit on the chaos that had been through as well. But yeah. So just even if it's on your phone or it's in a book at home, if you've got the time, if you're there, you know, try and build that into your routine.

So part of the 75 day hide, you got to read 10 pages a day. Right? So the other day I took my, my book outside, send the sun with my coffee and my journal with me as well. I read my 10 pages and did a little bit of journaling. Just maybe you can find time and you just write down how you're feeling and what you're up to. And if you've got that sort of five minutes, I mean, life is chaotic, right. So it's, it's hard to it's, it's hard to keep up with everything that you're supposed to do, even though you're supposed to do it. Right. Like in the Bible, Paul says, you know, I do all the things. I don't do the things I know I need to do. I always do the things I don't, I don't, I know I'm not supposed to do, but that, you know, we're just humans, you know, we can't be perfect.

I'm pretty damn close. But yeah, ,

Speaker 1 (1h 6m 31s): I think because I've looked into journaling a bit and the journaling that I have done is I do feel because it takes time to write down or type down your thoughts, your thoughts, then you have more awareness into your thoughts and then there'd be, you, it's almost like you create space for you to then critique your thought or, or have a way put awareness into the thought and then be able to adjust it to suit or to know, well, that's not quite right.

Or that's does that kind make sense? Like, I feel like it slows your thought processes down and slows everything down where you can then analyze it and take inventory on what your thoughts are. And then go, well, hang on, like then you can, you can spread more awareness or light on, on what your thinking actually is and then be able to change it. That's the experience. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (1h 7m 26s): I find, I find, if you ask yourself questions, the answers come to you, right? So, so you can start your journal and just say, I used to put the dates down and sometimes you can say, what am I up to is all the things I'm up to at the moment? How am I feeling about this? Instantly, this book comes to mind, write it down. All right. So if you ask yourself a question, you're always going to come up with the answer. Right. And if you don't come up with the answer, who cares, it doesn't have to be a big page. It might just be one paragraph. Yeah. It's just about putting that thoughts. Some days you have writer's block, you know, and some days it can just sit there and stare at a blank page and think, man, not today, it doesn't matter.

But like, if like, and that's, if it's a routine kind of thing, but then some days you just gotta sit there and you're gonna say, what the fuck is going on today. I'm facing this shit, having relationship issues, you know, all this stuff is going on. Actually feel like crap. Why am I feeling like crap, get this? How am I going to resolve that? Well, this wholeness, then you've got two or three pages of the answers. And it's like, holy shit. That was rewarded.

Speaker 1 (1h 8m 22s): Yeah. And like I said, I think it's because then you're taking the time to write it with kit, which gives you, you don't get stuck in your head. Like, you know, we don't get stuck in you're not actually creating any space to, to find the answer. Cause it's just so yeah. Yeah. Whereas you finding time to actually allowing the information to download or whether it's through, I mean your subconscious or whatever, to, to download into slows it down and then you're more likely to get the answer

Speaker 2 (1h 8m 51s): It is. And it's also more so about the process than anything else. Right. They don't think that this is going to be like perfectly written hand-writing and all that sort of mean you look back at my writing guaranteed. None of you'll be able to understand what I said.

Speaker 1 (1h 9m 2s): I'm like

Speaker 2 (1h 9m 3s): The thought process and it's the, it's the self discovery, which is another thing they say about psychedelics. You know, the whole thing about psychedelics is discovering your thoughts in how you work and what you're up to and where you're at. And, and that side of things. Right? I mean, it's one of the most journaling is, is, is like float tanks, same sort of thing. If you go into a float tank that says the closest thing you can take to psychedelics because you're in there and it's just you and yourself and your thoughts and you just

Speaker 1 (1h 9m 31s): Float all your sensories. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (1h 9m 33s): Exactly. So sincerely to provision, right. Is what the float tanks are about. But it is, it's just spending time with you in your mind because you are the most important thing to not only yourself, but to those around you as well. Like if you've got a family, like you need to, you need to discover who you are and what's that quote that says, you know, I feel sorry for anybody that doesn't discover the, the true potential of their own self it's a great guidance, is it? Yeah. So it's like, you know, not just your body, but your mind, if you don't discover the, how to maximize this God given gift that you've got, you know, have you really made the most of your time on earth kind of thing?

You know, it's like discover, like I don't think science has really discovered the true potential of our brain. Right? Like it,

Speaker 1 (1h 10m 20s): No, I certainly know it's. I mean, and even the top neuroscientists will tell you that we know nothing about the brain. Like it's still such a moment.

Speaker 2 (1h 10m 28s): Yeah. And so it's a spinning, spinning as much time as you can sort of discovering what, what it's all about, who you are is, is such a rewarding process and helps you in every single step of your life.

Speaker 1 (1h 10m 40s): Yeah. Yeah. So what's say, give some examples or give what has helped you discover yourself along your journey?

Speaker 2 (1h 10m 49s): Well, as I said, you know, stoicism as being a big part of it, reading and sort of personal development journaling, as I said, another big part of it, meditation is as hard as it is because you probably tell by how fast I talk and how crazy my mind is is that, you know, my mind is, is very, very active using external tools to, to sort of really discover who you are, sort of nootropics in. Yeah. It is. I've dabbled in and psychedelics in the past before as well. Micro-dosing, I mean, that's a really, really powerful tool.

I've got some friends that, that micro-dose often, you know, that got them off of antidepressants too, because what it does, it disrupt your baseline. And so, so, so going through a journey like that will help you to break down those habits that you previously had. And, and then you come out fresh with no ties to either smoking or drinking and that sort of stuff too, is that people would go to of, of, of those sort of addictions through the likes of psychedelics.

I know there's a lot of studies going through John Hopkins university. If you want to look into it, maps.org, M a P s.org, which stands for multidisciplinary association of psychedelic studies. There's a lot of research on there going into everything from depression to anxiety to PTSD. I went to the director screening of a documentary called from shock to all, which was a Iraqi war vet and his wife, both the Iraqi war vets. And they went off and did Iowasca what? So he went off and did iowaska for four days.

He was on 98 prescription pills before he went off on this thing. They keep adding, they never took away. Right. That's I hate that about the pharmaceutical and truly the doctors, they just keep

Speaker 1 (1h 12m 32s): Adding .

Speaker 2 (1h 12m 35s): So he went off and did four days of Iowasca and practically came back, completely healed. Like they followed up six months down the track. Sure. You know, he still had some issues and stuff, but he said he was awful with pills. He was a better father to his kids and he was tried to get his wife into it. And she was like, nah, I don't want to do the purge. I'm too scared of the vomiting and diarrhea and all that sort of stuff that you get with it. So she did a one session. She was also in Iraq. Right. She'd have one session on MDME and she was completely healed. Right. Like just that one is because MTMA sort of helps you develop this self-love and self-respect and that side of things too.

Yeah. So the whole bunch of sort of research and documentaries going into that, you know, so another one high as Mike has another good documentary. And obviously that's a lot harder for people that are in construction industry and that sort of stuff now, but things like CBD that sort of helped your anxiety and those sorts of issues as well with them. And there's, America's legalized it and it's sort of coming through and developing. I mean, I know it's legal in Canberra. We all go into that one either, but there are these external tools that can help as long as you use them as tools.

Right. And that's the most important thing, use them as tools because if you start abusing these tools and the tool is going to abuse you too.

Speaker 1 (1h 13m 48s): Yeah. That's a, that's a great distinction. And I think, yeah, my personal opinion, especially when it comes to something like mushrooms, like I've definitely done a psilocybin in the past and I've got some great realizations and some had some really powerful experiences from it. But then I have been to a place where I was taking it too much. You know what I mean? Like I was of taking it, trying to get more out of it, but I wasn't actually implementing or doing what's already shown me.

And then I had been experience. I think I was actually with Yami where we had, so yeah. I, the mushroom straightaway just like hit me and just said, no more like, stop. Like you're, I'm not showing anything else. Cause you're not, you know, you're not respect. Yeah. Right. So it's almost like they've got their own wisdom or they've got their own internal, you know, I mean like where it's almost like you can't take too much because it'll, it'll tell you, it'll let you know.

And I think that's,

Speaker 2 (1h 14m 51s): This is a really good book called Immortelle immortality. The immortality key, right. Joe Rogan does a podcast with a guy called Brian Roscoe who spent 12 years studying the origin of religion based on psychedelics. And he goes through the history, right from the start as to where it all came from that the God had diagnosis ISIS and all that sort of things. And from a, from a spiritual perspective, it's a little bit blast missing. You know, you got to pick out the gyms and these sort of things, but it was a fascinating experience to see how history used psychedelics.

And it was part of extensively Used extensively. It was part of all the rituals. It was part of their, their livelihood. I mean, where they say the, the 300 year witch hunt was, was the Catholic church taking it out of the botanists or the natural paths that were creating these potions because they were passed down from word of mouth. Right. And, and so that's a rural sort of obviously spiritual religious conflicts there, but it's fascinating because they wanted, they wanted people to have direct encounters with God and not to have directors encounters with God, unless it was through the church.

And I've heard stories, you know, I've got stories of people seeing God having the most spiritual experience of their entire life on psychedelics. And it's

Speaker 1 (1h 16m 12s): Definitely have

Speaker 2 (1h 16m 12s): Yeah. Yeah. I mean, dabbling in the past, I've seen God several times, you know, and I've had some solid messages from him that really sort of show me that he's there for me, you know, like going through some absolute traumatic times and business and all sort of stuff. And then, and then coming across this experience where he says, look, I'm here, don't worry about it. Just chill, chill the fuck out. I was like, oh, weight off my shoulders. Unbelievable. But yeah, it's, it is. I mean, as I said, tool do not abuse that cause it has to be respected.

And it's all about set and setting, you know, back in the days I was taken out of nightclubs and stuff and it was nowhere near what I was supposed to be, man,

Speaker 1 (1h 16m 53s): No, a hundred percent. And I've always done it in a ceremonial type of thing. I won't say always. Cause obviously when I was, you know, 19 20 12, you know, I mean obviously,

Speaker 2 (1h 17m 3s): But yeah,

Speaker 1 (1h 17m 4s): But I don't know, like in the past, well, in recent times I've definitely done it in a ceremony, done intention, done it with the right purpose. So I, I, haven't done a lot of looking into the research, but I know there's obviously MTMA, there's ketamine, there's psilocybin and there's obviously the iowaska and San Pedro priority and stuff. So when they do these studies and you say like set and settings, so what do you know what the steps are?

What the protocol is like, what are they, are they with a therapist that they've got certain questions they ask them or was it just, they take it and they let them like listen to music. Do you know much about the study? So you've talked about it. So

Speaker 2 (1h 17m 45s): One of my favorite authors is Tim Ferriss. And my other favorite authors is Tim Ferriss. And he delves into this world because he had, he had depression every six months for the majority of his life. Right. He's he's got Ted talk on this. And he says that as soon as he started microdosing, we'll take in psychedelics. And he goes, that was the last depressive episode you ever had and depression runs in his family. So that was huge. So I highly recommend checking that out too. So did hear his perspective on this and he's got a whole bunch of different interviews on panels and that sort of stuff with doctors and people have similar experiences.

Like for the first time in their life, they pretty much saw color micro-dosing on LST. I think it was. And they look out the window and they saw the birds and sort of the green and the trees. And so the blue in the sky and the neighbor actually knows that before sitting at their desk in their office, right. Sort of bought color to their life. And that just changed everything for the specific person who was suicidal and

Speaker 1 (1h 18m 34s): Brought awareness to the moment. I think that that's that. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (1h 18m 38s): Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. So, you know, going through these, these, getting into it, highly recommend having a guide, somebody that's has done it before, that can actually comfort you through those potentially traumatic times. If it's bringing out some dirt, somebody that knows what they're doing.

Speaker 1 (1h 18m 58s): And that's the one thing I was gonna say too, is that we're not recommending go out there and just, you know, willingly take these things. Yeah. Definitely do it with someone that's trained or someone that yeah. It's been in that realm for a long time where they can support you through anything that could possibly. Yep.

Speaker 2 (1h 19m 15s): Because I mean, obviously with this sort of stuff is a lot of risks. I mean, you can overdose if you don't take the right amounts, you know, so you gotta make sure your, your, your, your product is measured, knowing what you're taking and how much to take of what you know is, Hey, what's that mean? You know, this mushroom killed Brian and this one Smith made John see God, and this one and Paul, Brian. So it's making sure you got the right stuff and the right quantity of that product per dose and all that sort of stuff too. It's not just like here, here's a bunch of powder and go take it.

Speaker 1 (1h 19m 47s): I think it's really exciting where we're going with psychedelics and that was suppressed for so long by the government stuff. Like stuff that they picking up now is stuff that they started to do 50 years ago, but they suppressed it. You know what I mean? So we were so far behind where we should be button not to get the pessimists away. I, you know, I think it's really great now that people are getting open to things like this and using, because we needed all the help we can get when it comes to the depression and anxiety and PTSD, or, you know, I mean, like life is fucking tough, you know what I mean?

Look, this Reva's here and all three of us have had traumatic life. I mean, it's something that's fucking derailed us or something that we've all had it in. There's not many people you can talk to that hasn't, you know, I mean, so we need as many tools as possible and that's part of why I'll do this podcast. So I can get as many tools and get them as many experiences I can from people. And you know, what worked for them because what worked for you may not work for me or work for other people. So I think that's,

Speaker 2 (1h 20m 45s): Yeah. As you said, I mean, to answer the question, it's all about set and setting, it's all about being in the right place, making sure that it is a, is a calm, clean environment. When I say clean, I mean, like you can sort of get these negative vibes and that sort of thing too, like making sure that you are comfortable where you're at, you don't want to fricking taken a dirty motel in the middle of, you know, the red light district or whatever it might be because you gonna have a lot of negative energy in that area. You know? So it's, it's, it's making sure that you at peace where you are just put some good music on and just meditate for six hours.

I mean, that's the best way to do it. It's just good music. It's not so much the lyrics sort of thing, you know, sort of instrumental, potentially classical music, something like that. You know, there's some really good sorta that you can get some really bad psychedelic music to you,

Speaker 1 (1h 21m 39s): Which people just telling the clubs in Wonderwall that have their shit experience.

Speaker 2 (1h 21m 43s): So it's about having really nice, calm, good music on in the background. That's more so instrumental than anything else that sort of can just take you on that journey. Yeah. Yeah. I think coming back to what you're saying before that a lot of the suppression of the sort of stuff is because of politics, you know, was it Nixon? Was it at least 60 67? I think it was where they're coming to. I think it was Nixon at the time and said, Hey look, all these amazing things that we've got with all the research that we're doing on this LSD studies and psychedelics and how it's benefiting mental health.

And, and that was during the sort of the start of the Vietnam war. Everyone's like drop, drop acid, not bombs and make love, not war kind of things. You know, they all came from the sort of, hippier where these people were the sort of free thinkers. Yeah. And it does it, it just opens your mind and it asks you to, to think freely and, and takes away these boundaries that you're sort of told,

Speaker 1 (1h 22m 42s): I think they like the societies, cultures and boundaries and that, and I mean, like you talked about like getting stuck in your own head, I think we get stuck in the collective consciousness of, of, you know, what life's supposed to be local, whatever. It can just break down. Every one of them was like, you know, I mean, like the it's almost like your EAs like is left at the door.

Speaker 2 (1h 23m 7s): Yeah. And that's exactly what I call it. Ego death, you know, sort of destroys that he goes like, yeah, it's, it's a fascinating thing. There's a lot of study going into the moment and I really enjoy sort of keeping up with it and finding out what's going on and where it's heading. And obviously it's legal at the moment. And so it's, it's not something you can go out and just ask people in the street for a product or anything like that, but it's yeah, it's, it's, it's fascinating to see where it's going. And I really look forward to seeing what it can do in the mental health side of things. It's, as I said, maps.org map s.org, highly recommend checking that out to see what sort of studies are coming out of John Hopkins university over in the states, Tim Ferris has funded a lot of those studies.

He really was one of the guys that sort of helped kickstart that. And, and he's got some really good tools in a book called the tools of Titans where he sort of talks a lot about it. Like for example, I began is used to help people that are on heroin addictions, you know, done in a clinical setting, people using, I began can actually get off the lights of heroin. I begins another route kind of like how Wesco. Yeah. It's another route psychedelic and yeah. So he's, he's got some really interesting stories and it was some people that are going through these studies and yeah, it's, it's fascinating where this is hitting.

And I think it's really going to help change us as, as, as our mental state, as a, as humanity as a whole, if we can actually apply these as proper tools and clinical settings.

Speaker 1 (1h 24m 39s): Yeah. Okay, cool. Awesome. So I know we touched on your charity before, so, so is that that's just like all the houses and all that type of stuff. So that's like the overarching,

Speaker 2 (1h 24m 54s): It is a couple of different avenues here. So I went through a period kind of sounds funny, sort of coming off this conversation, but I came, I went through a period of like, I think it was about a few weeks of like a chemical imbalance episode of depression. And, and I don't really remember whether that was sort of associated with anything like sort of taking psychedelics and that sort of thing, but to actually back that up, you know, once you to get off that, make sure you get your vitamin D get on the sunshine exercise because you do drain your serotonin.

You do need to pick yourself back up, cause you will go through a Lola afterwards from that. So it chemicals that sort of rush through your body. So when you come out of a position like that, make sure you do supplement with vitamins and make sure

Speaker 1 (1h 25m 40s): B12 is another good one to get stripped as well,

Speaker 2 (1h 25m 43s): Dose yourself out with a lot of good sort of vitamins that help you sort of mental side of things, get lots of exercise and get a lot of sunshine because otherwise you are going to go through a depressive episode after a session like that. If you don't take care of yourself. And it's also also very good to be aware, Hey, I did this and I know it's affected my chemicals in my brain and they're coming out of that. I need to make sure that, you know, if I do go through a depressive episode and know it's just a phase kind of thing is gonna come out of it. But I had, I had several weeks of just a chemical imbalance with something. I mean, I was, I was reflecting my life saying why they're like, everything's good.

Why do I feel this way? Like, there's no reason for me to feel like this. I felt like jumping off a bridge. It was that bad. I was crying. I was up at two o'clock in the morning, sprinting the streets, just try and get that anxiety out of my system. Like I could not sleep. And it was just, it was a horrible, horrible experience. And that's what I was like, man, like, it sounds stupid saying this, but like depression is actually a thing it's not situation or it can be chemical imbalance. It could be anything like that. And that was the sort of realization and the experience that it went through. And I was lying there in bed one night and I'm like, this is the battlegrounds of life, man. This is the battlegrounds of the brain.

This is, and then came from those battlegrounds. So it sort of searched and found a domain name, battlegrounds.com that a year. And I was like, you know, maybe that's the name of the charity that one established. And so then I went through that whole process and we're developing an app and I was working with counselors and psychologists to provide support to people that want to get on an app. And then through those hurdles of sitting up a charity, you know, the anti money laundering because I want it to be international, to have every country dealt with, had to have that sort of anti money will and dream procedure policy that was going to put through it. So I've got some lawyers helping.

What do you call it? Getting lawyers helps you free charge. It's like provide pro bono. You're doing some pro bono work for me to try and help get that off the ground, which is really, really cool.

Speaker 1 (1h 27m 25s): Wanna know something you've got to look at

Speaker 2 (1h 27m 33s): So he's just got a bit of legal experience sorta

Speaker 1 (1h 27m 38s): At the wrong time experience.

Speaker 2 (1h 27m 44s): And so through that, it's because of the construction side of things I want to develop. So social housing through a charity. And so it's like a halfway house for people that either suffer domestic violence or end up just in shift for whatever reason might be where they can actually go to a place where they can actually have accommodation and a roof over their head to comfortable bed, have a cafe downstairs. We can have counselors sort of, you know, just full time so that people can just sort of drop in and have a coffee with somebody and say, look, I'm facing these issues at the moment. And just like a drop in center, like a community center kind of thing, but like a really cool cause we've got an architectural business too.

So make a really good vibe. You need to sit at the front where the account's there and have a good chat and a coffee and just socialize where you can sit at the back in a clinical setting sort of situation and have those

Speaker 1 (1h 28m 29s): Seem to, without the stigma.

Speaker 2 (1h 28m 30s): Yeah. Yeah. Cause you don't want to, you don't want to, like, I want this to be like a, like

Speaker 1 (1h 28m 35s): A safe Haven for people in a safe

Speaker 2 (1h 28m 37s): Haven, but not a place that you go to feel like, oh, I need to go get help. I have to go to the thing at the clinic. It's not a clinic. I want it to be a hangout

Speaker 1 (1h 28m 43s): Because you know, it's hard to ask for help. Exactly. Right?

Speaker 2 (1h 28m 46s): Yeah. So pool tables and you maybe have a game of foosball where you turn into a mate and say, man, I'm fucking dealing with this shit at the moment misses doing that. Or my boss is doing this or, you know, whatever it might be. I can't, I can't put up with my kids at the moment. They just give me some stress and I'm a shit, dad, whatever. I'm just a place where you can be you and just hang out and not feel judged or, or like your, your debt to get help. You just get to hang out. And so, so that's, that's the charity side. I also want to tie in with better grounds, but also both the, the construction side of things, because I've got the tools to actually make this happen.

And through that, just roll these out around the place where you can have, so these drop in centers. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (1h 29m 28s): Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So is that like close on the horizon or is that something that's still a fair way

Speaker 2 (1h 29m 36s): You say based on the sort of workload that are going on at the moment as part of my city development plans as sort of I'm sort of working towards. So, so the, the, the ethos behind everything that we're trying to do is, is create a platform for change. So these cities will be a city for change. And as I said, reimagining the way we think of the loop and keeping it closed circuit in sustainable and, and all the rest and, and having that sort of vibe, just roll out across everything we're doing.

So I am getting closer to a position where I'm able to pull these off again, the charity side of things and the, and the illegals aspect of that. You know, I've been tackling that for a while now. So I would probably say within the next three to five years is, is when I actually going to have sort of these off the ground.

Speaker 1 (1h 30m 23s): Yeah. Cool. Definitely let us know. I'd like to be a part of and helping any way I can imagine. So, yeah, that'd be awesome. But one thing that you mentioned before, and I really want to really write and drive this home is sunlight. Like, I don't think people really realize I've been listening to as few women a bit lately and who's, he's got his own podcast. He's a neuroscientist. He talks like real science space about sunlight and slit, like how it affects it affects absolutely everything.

So I think, especially in today, like a lot of people don't work at doors, they in an office all day. And then, so they, even in the car, they say like, just the tinted from the window, you still don't get actually what you get from what you can get from sunlight. So you go from your house, no sunlight, you know, to any car in an office to, yeah. Any car at home, you're not getting that sunlight. And so he can affect everything from, you know, your serotonin to your Acadian rhythm. So your, your sleep cycles, which sleep is absolutely, you know, that's one thing for mental health.

They, I didn't realize this, but every single mental health disorder affects sleep or sleep affects it. You know what I mean? Like them two are so closely tied. So I think, and if you get the right amount of sunlight, which then wakes should, soon as you wake up, they say, you should go out into sunlight for two to 10 minutes to start up that Acadian rhythm. So your body knows, okay, well, this is when I've actually woken up. And then it'll time that for then when you go to sleep and same. So later on in the day, if you're someone that finds it hard to fall asleep, shall I stay out of the sunlight?

So then your body then goes, what Kate's, it's not time now I've got to start getting ready for bed. You know, and this is where the blue light comes in. Like when we, in that blue light, that stops a brain from going okay, it's nighttime. Cause you're still getting that.

Speaker 4 (1h 32m 20s): I'm someone who's worked in dark rooms for a lot of years having been in and out of photo studios, working in offices and different things. And the last seven days on the 75 hard challenge being forced to go out and spend time with sunlight is actually not as brilliant, made a difference for me.

Speaker 1 (1h 32m 36s): Hm. Yeah,

Speaker 4 (1h 32m 37s): Yeah, yeah. It actually has.

Speaker 1 (1h 32m 39s): Yeah. So there's a real life example of just how, how important sunlight is.

Speaker 4 (1h 32m 45s): It's very safe to say. I wouldn't have spent none of that time outside at all.

Speaker 1 (1h 32m 51s): Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that's, well, that's obviously one of the reasons why he has put in there that 45 minutes has to be outside. It's not so much about doing exercise. It's LA it's just being the outside. You know what I mean? And it's getting that sunlight and just being out in nature and getting just, I know for me, like surfing is, is like the ultimate cause the, the mixed between salt water, like it's, it's got to have magical. We can't know all the benefits from it.

Cause there's so much that I get from it. That is not documented. I don't know. I think

Speaker 2 (1h 33m 26s): Generally.

Speaker 1 (1h 33m 26s): Yeah, definitely. And I think natural water, as opposed to like running water, if you're in a stream or whatever, as opposed to like still stagnant water. Yeah. So water is massive. And then obviously when I'm surfing, I'm out in the sun, so you're getting that sunlight and then cause the sun reflects off the water NTI. So that's saying that a lot of the there's certain things that your brain gets from looking into sunlight that you can't get any other way. You know what I mean? Let's just start any way you can get it. And I read that years ago when I first was on air depressants that I like, you know, staring into the sunblock when the sunset or sunrise, like just stare into it for, even if it's like 10 seconds, when that say like what your brain, it gets out of it.

It's just incredible. And I remember practicing that thinking, you know this and it did actually make a difference.

Speaker 2 (1h 34m 15s): Yeah. Just answer to too long.

Speaker 1 (1h 34m 18s): And I mean, obviously if it's hurting, you know, don't just start looking at it, but do it at the sunset or sunrise. So it's not so powerful. And you can actually like look into it. And

Speaker 2 (1h 34m 26s): It said the Egyptians used to have pyramids. That would be hospitals and she's gone to the pyramid and you lie on this bid and the pyramid would be built over a canal. And the sound frequency of the actual border reflecting through the pyramid was actually healing to the person based on the frequencies that we're using. That's just the sound of dripping water is also very medicinal healthy.

Speaker 1 (1h 34m 49s): Yeah. Well, I didn't know that one. That's a cool little fact. So I suppose that comes down to like sound and sound frequencies and you know, there's a lot of healing modalities where people are using like drums and certain symbols and certain sounds. And it makes sense, like, you know what I mean? Like, because your body is, is mad at, you know, you can use sound to break that class. You know, you can use sound to, you know, if you've got internal knots in your, in your body or internal, you know, there's knots in your shockers or, you know, stuff's not flowing.

You can use sound to break through them. And that's probably gone way too spiritual for some people, but that's something that I'll look into, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (1h 35m 32s): Yeah. The frequency is a fascinating thing. Absolutely fascinating. But that's another rabbit hole in itself.

Speaker 1 (1h 35m 37s): Yeah. Gone down energy and frequency. You know what I mean? I think it was Nicholas Tesla say, you know, if you can, if you can work out, you know, the frequency, you know, you'll work out the entire universe. Know. I mean, if you can work out what cause energy, everything is energy. Like we think this is matter, but people don't realize that was it 99.9 9, 9, 9, 13. Nines is actually empty space. And in that table right now. Yeah. So the distance between every molecule, every atom in our body is about the same distance per size as the distance between every star in the universe.

So we look up there and go all empty space, but this is the same. It's just that they're so close together. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (1h 36m 23s): Yeah. Was that you said today, the consciousness in the universe, the universe was conscious. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (1h 36m 30s): And your thoughts. So I asked him when we were thoughts.

Speaker 2 (1h 36m 33s): Yeah.

Speaker 1 (1h 36m 35s): So yeah. And then they say that every say every Adam is 99.9, nine, 9% empty space teaks. It's just a proton nucleus and then like electronic going around the outside

Speaker 2 (1h 36m 45s): Of galaxies.

Speaker 1 (1h 36m 45s): Yeah. So basically we are empty space, but because we vibrate at a frequency that obviously, you know, like when a fan goes really fast, it looks like it's one thing that's just what's happening here. Yeah. So yeah. I mean that to me. So that just proves that frequency or we are basically energy or frequency more than what we are mad at. Even though we think we are matter, we actually not. So that's why Angie and frequency is so important. And we use stuff like standard that affects us so much because we are essentially energy and sound energy can then affect our energy.

Speaker 2 (1h 37m 18s): Yeah. It w the way that, that works across your whole sort of lifestyle and, and who you are and how you become to like, remember the times where I am, I feel like I'm absolutely primed. Like I'm exercising and eating healthy and being enough sunlight and just life is good. And when you're absolutely prompt, you feel like burst energy just out of your body. Like you literally feel like I remember this one time. I said to my life coach, I said, right now, I feel like I could walk into a room and blow people away with amount of energy that I've got just like inside me. It's like Phil, just the one explode.

And, and obviously that's when everything is going. Right. Which is very rare.

Speaker 1 (1h 37m 56s): It's funny. I was listening to, I can't remember what I was listening to the R B talks about when you are like, when everything's going fine to, to not get cocky or not to get that ego, because it's almost like you're preparing for the next, So you gotta be, when life is high, you've got to be here and my life is down. You gotta, you go and find that balance of, you know what I mean? Like don't get to like, be like the river, you know? I mean, like, what is bristly say, be like water, just flow with, you know, all these things are going to happen when you don't think it's always going to be up forever.

And then when you're down, same thing, it's not going to be there forever. So having that balance, I suppose, can keep you grounded and keep you

Speaker 2 (1h 38m 36s): Right on the waves of life.

Speaker 1 (1h 38m 37s): Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (1h 38m 39s): I said, that's another sort of, a bit of advice when you sort of go into those psychedelic journeys too, it's just ride the wave. Cause you can kind of go through a free condition. You're going to go through a storm of ride, the wave, don't try and control it. Just ride the wave.

Speaker 1 (1h 38m 54s): Yeah. I'll definitely help some people through their genius because God, it works in mysterious ways. I wasn't that stuff. Yeah. I took it with a person once and she was always like in my meditation, you know what I mean? Like going through some stuff and she's like, oh, that's not working. Like it's not doing anything. Let's go do something. And it's like, just let me have my half an hour. You know what I mean? And then I'll, you know, we'll go do something, but I'm feeling that I need some me time, some, you know, and then once I sort of finished with my time.

I then we're like, okay, cool. And then it just smacked her. She just like bawling our eyes out. Like, oh, she likes, she had like 10 years of therapy and like an hour, just all the stuff that come up from her past that she didn't even realize was an issue, but it was, she just stuffed it down that far. And I mean, and just to be able to hold space for her and hold her interest, be there and just sort of be able to coach it through. But I thought it was really funny how it's almost like the mushrooms knew that okay, Ryan needed his time, but then when his time is over, like it , I need Ryan to be good enough or to be in a state where he could support her through this.

You know what I mean? Like, you know, you can't tell me that it wasn't something I wasn't behind that, you know, that's just divine grace or timing or whatever you want to call it. Yeah. It was, it was really cool experience. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (1h 40m 21s): Life is a journey.

Speaker 1 (1h 40m 23s): It definitely is. It definitely is. So I always ask at the end of the podcast, because I think we've definitely covered some, some good topics and some good stories. So if there's one piece of advice that you could give to anyone out there, maybe struggling, whether it's financial, is there one like key, like little takeaway that is, you know, if you could give someone something, what would it, what would it be? I know it's a very loaded question, but, and you've all done.

You both done very well today and giving some tools and strategies and context and, and showing people because we all go through stuff. And I think sometimes we feel like we're the only ones when we've gone through it. Like, like no, no one has to struggle and like, fuck off. A lot of people are, you know, and it's just having that awareness that we're all going to go through stuff, but you just need to, you know, had the tools, strategies, and the support of friends and family, and be able to open up to that. So yeah,

Speaker 4 (1h 41m 25s): Talking to someone who's never read a book in your life,

Speaker 1 (1h 41m 27s): Hi,

Speaker 4 (1h 41m 28s): Coming from someone who's never read a book properly in their life. I just go to audio books. Yeah. But if, if I was to give one piece of advice, I would say, great.

Speaker 1 (1h 41m 39s): Yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, I think it's yeah.

Speaker 4 (1h 41m 42s): The books, whatever it is, remove yourself from the dumb that television, the things that are trying to push into you.

Speaker 1 (1h 41m 49s): Yeah.

Speaker 4 (1h 41m 50s): And just seek care and information, seek information, whatever the information.

Speaker 1 (1h 41m 54s): Yeah. A hundred percent like that. 74

Speaker 4 (1h 41m 57s): It'll find you. Now you might, you might go looking over there, but the other information, or you will find the other information, you'll find other things along the way. So I would say re get hungry for information,

Speaker 1 (1h 42m 8s): Reading, audit

Speaker 4 (1h 42m 9s): Information. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (1h 42m 11s): Cool. That's a really powerful one. That's something that all of the same. I never read a book until I was 27. Even at school. When you had to read a book, I was like, I'm not reading that. I'll say when I suppose this book about it, and then just try and write an essay on that. Like, I wonder why I didn't pass. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I never read a book until 27. Then I got into and network marketing network marketing company, which taught me so much. I know it gets a bit of a bad rap, but you know, I mean, I learnt so much from it network marketing companies, and that was their big thing was, you know, leaders were readers, you know, and I was like, oh, I'm going to, I'm going to try this read and shit, you know?

And it does, you know, like everyone learns differently and there are exceptions to the rule like Hemi, but you know, most time because your awareness when you're reading is a hundred percent on reading, you absorb, I think it's like 40% more of the information as opposed to listening. Because generally when you're listening, you're driving, you're doing other things. So your awareness isn't quite, so you don't retain as much of the information. And for me personally, if I read a book and it's awesome, or read it again, straightaways afterwards, and I can retain like most of the information, if I read a book twice straight away,

Speaker 4 (1h 43m 18s): Re reading has been a challenge for me, it's not something I could just, I've been able to just pick up a book and just read. I read all day for information, whether it be on websites, on my phone, on different things on researching at the time. But when it came to reading a book, I really struggled. So there are a few different tools that I sort of, that helped me. One was I wrote the book, I wrote what I was reading. That was the first attempt

Speaker 1 (1h 43m 44s): Take forever.

Speaker 4 (1h 43m 45s): But I retained it. Yeah. My reading retention that, that book retention came right up high. The next part was a highlighted.

Speaker 1 (1h 43m 54s): Yep.

Speaker 4 (1h 43m 55s): And then the one I do more now, because I'm not the fastest reader is I get the audio book at the same time. I speed it up and I have them read it to me while I read the book. Speed now, because maybe, obviously

Speaker 1 (1h 44m 14s): You're not driving everyone make sure that,

Speaker 4 (1h 44m 19s): But I'm reading, having it read to me while I'm reading at the same time has actually brought up my own reading speed as well, of

Speaker 1 (1h 44m 28s): Course.

Speaker 4 (1h 44m 29s): But I can also think about things and then catch up to where they are in the book. So I'm doing more books faster. I've got, I went from reading zero books to, I think I've done 160 in the last 24 months.

Speaker 1 (1h 44m 41s): Yeah. Oh, well that's cool.

Speaker 2 (1h 44m 43s): So physical reading books.

Speaker 4 (1h 44m 45s): Oh no, no, just audio books and reading books from doing zero cover to cover, I've done 168.

Speaker 1 (1h 44m 52s): Awesome.

Speaker 4 (1h 44m 53s): So it's been a massive life change. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (1h 44m 56s): Yeah. I ended up, I can't recommend that whole, you know, so that's, that's a great one.

Speaker 2 (1h 45m 0s): Yeah. Nice. My bit of advice would probably be, it's not what you know, it's who, you know, because you can always ask for advice and that's the kind of thing again, asking for help finding a mentor. So my mentor is a, an 85 year old Jewish guy. Who's got one hell of a story and, and finding somebody who's in a position that you want to be in and just go out there and just say, Hey, look, you know, can you guide me? Can you coach me? Can you mentor me whatever it might be? And that's that's I think because they can give you all the tools and tricks and it's like having your own personal sorta teacher, you know, it's somebody that can sort of help you to get to where you want to be based on their life advice, Jeremy, some of this older, more experienced in a, in a, in, in a position that you want to end up in, because it says in both the Bible and business, it says you are the equivalent of your five closest friends, shimmy, shimmy, your friends, and I'll show you who you are.

And, and yeah, people, numerous times said I never became a millionaire as to what, until I started hanging out with millionaires because you just sort of learn the way he's going to learn the mindset. He learned the mentality. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (1h 46m 8s): Yeah. If you hang out with a hundred days, you get a hundred we said that Jim Ryan,

Speaker 2 (1h 46m 18s): So it is it's it's, it's not necessarily what, you know, it's who, you know, and then through who, you know, you become, you know, that becomes what, you know,

Speaker 1 (1h 46m 24s): That's a great one. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (1h 46m 25s): So, so it's, it's just asking for help

Speaker 1 (1h 46m 29s): And

Speaker 2 (1h 46m 30s): It comes to that and that just applies to every area of your life, right down to communication you and your relationships and all that stuff too. So it's ask for help find a mentor and surround yourself with the right sort of people. I think the thing that made the difference for him, he and I in allies, was getting out of the environment that we were in and that's, you know, there's surrounding that were, and we were hanging out people that drinking, but

Speaker 4 (1h 46m 49s): Weekend was our culture. We, yeah. And there were probably multiple stages of that. The first stage for me was getting out of New Zealand. Yeah. I brought some of that culture with me. His name is guy , but no, I, I brought, brought a lot of that culture with me and I expected it to change and I was too busy looking back at everyone. That was the same, not realizing that I brought some of that same across with me another year or two to get out of it 10 years, almost 10.

So, so my, my biggest change was probably in 2011, 2012, when I did start to drink by choice other than, rather than, rather than drink, because it was a weekend. And then it did role license situation, different thoughts. But then I, I, and I tend to have removed alcohol now. Not because I'm against alcohol because, but because it steals time from what I'm doing.

Yeah. I could be doing other things. I feel guilty because there were so many other things that could be doing and I'd probably enjoy it more. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (1h 47m 60s): Oh yeah. Awesome. No, that's great. Look, thank you so much for your time guys and heavy. I know both of you guys are very busy, so I do really appreciate you guys coming along and imparting your wisdom onto the Nirvana podcast. So thanks a lot for coming.

Speaker 4 (1h 48m 16s): Thanks for your time.

Speaker 1 (1h 48m 18s): I appreciate

Speaker 4 (1h 48m 19s): It.

Speaker 5 (1h 48m 20s): Thank you for listening to the new amount of podcasts. If you liked what you heard, please like, and subscribe. Also, if you'd like to know a bit more about us, jump on Instagram, Nirvana, I'm the school and you and Obama on Facebook. Also, if you'd like to check out our services and if we can help you in any way, jump on our website, neuronirvana.com.au