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No state has fallen further than Kansas in America’s Health Rankings. We used to be 8th in 1991.
Why did we slip so far down in the rankings? The answer might surprise you; it’s based on a leadership challenge.
At the Kansas Health Foundation, our bold vision is to make Kansas the healthiest state in the nation and to do so, this movement must be powered by Kansans in positions of authority and influence to shift Health outcomes.
Starting with the launch of the 2025 publication, Leading Health, written by President and CEO of the Kansas Health Foundation, Ed O’Malley, this podcast aims to break down key concepts of this leadership challenge and actionable ways that we can work together to make a real impact on Health in Kansas.
In each episode, Ed O’Malley, and Senior Advisor at Kansas Health Foundation, Susan Kang, will highlight a chapter in the book and discuss with Kansans who are actively engaged in expanding our definition of Health.
Leading Health is an invitation to move the needle on Health in Kansas, and we invite you to join us in leading the way.
Ep10
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[00:00:00]
Ed O'Malley: Welcome back to another episode of the Leading Health Podcast, where my colleague, Susan Kang and I, my name is Ed O'Malley, walk you through this book, leading Health, how [00:01:00] You and 30,000 Kansans Help Communities Thrive. Susan, we're back at it again today. We're gonna have a good time.
Susan Kang: I'm super excited to be here with you, Ed.
Thanks. And with our guest.
Ed O'Malley: Yes, we have Kenny Wilke joining us again. He's been with us a couple times before. We're excited to get him back up here on the set here in just a little while.
Recap and Today’s Theme
---
Ed O'Malley: But before a little bit of recap of where we've been. So we're now several episodes, several chapters into this book.
We've gone all the way through part one, which was really setting up. The distinction between capital H Health, lower H Health, talking about the 30,000, who they are, why their role is so critical, and of course, kind of shining a light on the idea of America's health rankings as a north star for moving Kansas forward.
Part two of the book has been all about, you know, surprise, it's not a health challenge. It's actually a leadership challenge. That's what's getting in the way of progress is we need more leadership and [00:02:00] we especially need a type of leadership from the 30,000 because of the roles they play in our communities, the roles of authority, the roles of credibility, the roles of controlling organization systems, and so on and so forth.
So last. Episode we were talking about a particular element of this leadership challenge in that. Progress requires loss, like letting go of some things in order to move forward on other things. That was a hard kind of depressing chapter, but we made it as positive and optimistic as we could.
Right? Of
Susan Kang: course we did.
Ed O'Malley: And today we're gonna dive into the topic that leadership, especially on big, daunting challenges, is risky. So another topic that could feel daunting, but we're gonna make it optimistic and it's an important conversation to have.
Susan Kang: Ed, thank you so much for setting us up with the background and sort of where we are up till now.
Why Leadership Is Risky
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Susan Kang: Chapter 10 which is entitled, entitled, closing the [00:03:00] Health Gap is a leadership challenge because it's risky. So we love talking about leadership. We celebrate it, we teach it, we want others to exercise leadership, right? It's, it's the thing that we talk about all the time, but we rarely talk about the risk.
That is inherent in exercising leadership. Right. And in, but in, in order for us to make progress on something as adaptive and as daunting as the health gap, we have to be able to exercise leadership, which is risky, but it also requires disruption. And disruption, you know, is, according to the book, and this is really, really so interesting to me, is disappointing people at the rate you disappointing your own people at the rate that they can absorb.
And I, you know, that's, that's a, that's a sentence that I had to sit and think about for a little while. And I think it's just it is really, really deep and I think it's really meaningful and so. In this episode with Kenny, we're gonna dive into [00:04:00] why leadership is li risky, and but why avoiding that risk may be costing us even more in terms of our ability to close the health gap. So we, we, we have to, even if it's risky, we still have to exercise leadership. And that is what I think is interesting about this chapter. So Ed so we know that leadership is risky and it requires dis disruption. So could you talk a little bit about what that means?
Ed O'Malley: Yeah. I wanna start by explaining why leadership is risky and I don't wanna gloss over that.
Susan Kang: Okay? No.
Ed O'Malley: Okay. That's fair. And a lot of people, you know, a lot of leadership stuff, it's, it's very kumbaya, like, it's very, like, everything is great, it's all great. We're, it's all, let's all be leaders and, and I. I think that does a disservice to what's really happening when people exercise leadership.
So wanna remind people, a few chapters ago, a few episodes ago, we talked about a definition of leadership, which [00:05:00] is leadership is mobilizing others. To make progress on daunting challenges. So I don't know about you, Susan, but I I don't think that happens very often.
Susan Kang: Nope. I agree.
Ed O'Malley: Yeah, I think leadership is incredibly rare.
I think it's, it doesn't happen very often. I don't think I do it very often. I think it is the exception. It's not the rule. It's kinda like in baseball, the best hitters hit the ball three times outta 10. I know you love my sports metaphors bit. Leadership, I think is like that. It doesn't happen very often.
I think we do a disservice if we pretend like it happens all the time. Mm-hmm.
Disruption and Loss
---
Ed O'Malley: So leadership is mobilizing others to make progress on daunting challenges. So why is it risky? Like why would we have a whole chapter in here that's leadership is risky? Like, well, why? Well, the reason is because. Progress on these daunting challenges is hard because it requires people letting go of things.
It [00:06:00] requires people stopping, doing things, thinking things that they prefer to keep doing or keep thinking. So that previous chapter was about, it involves loss. Loss, yeah. Leadership involves loss. Yeah. Okay. That's why leadership is so risky. Leadership is risky because it is about disruption. Mm-hmm. And people don't wanna be disrupted.
Mm-hmm. People don't want that. And so everybody is gonna say, we're not happy that Kansas has slid in the health rankings, but they don't actually want their life disrupted to turn that around like they would like. To climb the health rankings but have nothing changed for them that they don't like, and that's just not possible.
So, so like why is leadership risky? It's risky because it's about disruption. Like if you are not disrupting things, you are not leading now. It's also important for people to understand that [00:07:00] just because you are disrupting things doesn't mean you're leading either, right? Yeah. Yeah. Good
Susan Kang: thing to keep in mind.
Right?
Ed O'Malley: Yeah. It's very important to keep in mind that. Okay, so that's the one thought I wanted to land. Susan, what, what else do we wanna make sure we land in this
Susan Kang: chapter? Well, yeah, I, I mean, so I wanna just in terms of disruption, so sometimes disruption means change. So some of us, we like disruption or change that's good for us.
If I won the lottery, I don't know, maybe that's not always a good thing. But let's say, you know, that's a good thing. That's a good disruption. But there are other disruptions that are not good. And those are the things that are really hard to wrap our minds around and arms around.
Ed O'Malley: Right. And so it began a lot of that in the last chapter about loss.
Like nobody's afraid of change, per se. We talked about last chapter.
Susan Kang: Yeah,
Ed O'Malley: last episode. They're afraid of the loss that comes with change.
Susan Kang: Yeah.
Ed O'Malley: They don't like, right? Yeah.
Disappointing Your Own People
---
Ed O'Malley: You know, no quote you mentioned earlier in the book, it's a quote from Marty Linsky. Dear friend, dear mentor incredible thinker, writer, speaker about [00:08:00] leadership, civic life, government, politics, media.
But Marty says that leadership, this is his definition, leadership is disappointing your own people. At a rate they can absorb. Alright, that's a big idea, right? So we put that quote in this chapter on purpose. This chapter is about leadership is risky, and this quote from Marty kind of hits that home leadership is disappointing your own people, right?
So. What a lot of people in the 30,000 like to do when they're calling for change, when they're kind of rallying people to do something different. They like to throw the quote unquote other side under the bus. They like to talk about how that other group, the other faction, the other political party, the other group in town, how they are screwing everything up.
Susan Kang: Right,
Ed O'Malley: right. Well, that's easy. Like, that's not hard to do. Like, like disappointing the people who are your opponents. Like that's not like, [00:09:00] it doesn't take a lot of courage to do that. All right. Leadership though is disappointing your own people. It's like looking at your own faction, your own political party, your own team, your own group in the community and saying, you know what?
We really have a part of the mess. Like we are actually contributing to the continuation of the problems that we keep talking about. And if we're gonna make progress on the problem, whether it's capital H Health, or some other problem we're gonna have to do some things differently and that's gonna be hard for us.
Susan Kang: Yeah.
KHF Strategy as an Example
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Susan Kang: Ed, can you share an example of a time where you disappointed your own people at the rate that we could absorb?
Ed O'Malley: Well, the weak it absorbs part is up to interpretation, right. And but what comes to my mind, Susan, is. Like, you know, four years ago when we created this new strategic framework for the Kansas Health Foundation and we tied our work to helping Kansas lead the nation in health.
I think in some ways when, when I, and I pushed for that and I was [00:10:00] very clear that if I was hired to be in this role, I was gonna anchor what we do to helping Kansas lead the nation in health. And in some ways I think that is disappointing for our own people at KHF because it is, for example, putting a ton of pressure on us that didn't used to exist.
Susan Kang: Yeah,
Ed O'Malley: we did not use to have a clear way to measure whether or not we were winning or losing. Now we do.
Susan Kang: Mm-hmm.
Ed O'Malley: And we actually don't control very much of the measure. So it puts the likelihood of us being seen as potentially ineffective. Much more clear than it was in the past.
Yeah,
Susan Kang: yeah.
Ed O'Malley: You know, but so I think like doing that in a way where we're saying, Hey, we're gonna raise the bar on our expectations.
Of ourselves. I think nobody would probably admit this, but I think in some ways that could be disappointing to people. But to do it at a rate they can absorb, like, and we're gonna have a [00:11:00] ton of support and this is gonna be visionary and we're gonna have fun and we're gonna push ourselves together and none of us are gonna be left on an island all by themselves doing this work or some of the ways.
I've tried to do this at a rate that can absorb.
Susan Kang: Yeah.
Ed O'Malley: If that makes sense. Yeah. But so like leadership, it's risky because it's about disruption. It's risky because knowing the line of when have you gone past the rate, people can absorb. Right. Yeah. Like when, when, yeah.
Susan Kang: Say more about that.
Ed O'Malley: Well, like, there's a moment, right?
So like, you're leading, you're mobilizing change, you're trying to tell your own people. Again, it's, it's easy to tell other people, but you're trying to tell the people that that report to you or that authorized you, that elected you, that supported you. You're trying to tell them that they actually have to change, that they have to do something different that is risky.
And what we're saying, Marty's quote is leadership is disappointing those people at a rate they can't absorb, but you never know [00:12:00] exactly what that rate is. History is full of examples of people literally being killed off. When they didn't get that calculation correct.
Susan Kang: Yeah.
Ed O'Malley: Right. And history is also full of examples of people figuratively being killed off when they didn't get that calculation correct.
So this stuff is risky.
Risk vs Reward in Health Equity
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Ed O'Malley: Now the last thing that I wanna say about this before we get Kenny up here is we make this point, and I think it's an important one, that when it comes to closing the health gap. There's a mismatch between who takes on the risk and who gains from the risk. Okay. So a lot of times in life this is a unique thing about leading on the health gap, leading at closing the health gap, leading at climbing the health rankings, leading on capital H Health.
This is unique. In a lot of [00:13:00] situations when you take risk, you end up directly benefiting. Like you have a chance to directly benefit. Now you have a chance to actually suffer their consequences of it not going well. Mm-hmm. But a if, if somebody is an entrepreneur and they take the risk to start a business and it's very risky, they have the opportunity though to have the reward.
Of a successful business.
Susan Kang: Yeah.
Ed O'Malley: And what that means for them and their family.
Susan Kang: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a natural outcome of the risk that they're taking. Right, right. But
Ed O'Malley: when it comes to closing the health gap
Susan Kang: mm-hmm.
Ed O'Malley: We need people, the 30,000 whose health is already some of the best there is to take risk.
And what's so hard about this is the people who will benefit from that risk being taken is the Alice population. We haven't talked about them in a few episodes, but we talked about them a lot early on in this podcast. Mm-hmm. We write about them in the book. The working poor, the asset Limited, income Constrained, employed, that population of people that [00:14:00] are struggling and whose health has suffered.
Significantly over the last 30 years. Those are the people who will benefit. The 30,000 are the people whose risk, who must take risk in order to bring that to life. Let's get Kenny Wilkin here and have some of this conversation together about the relationship relationship between risk leadership and health in Kansas.
Susan Kang: Kenny, thank you so much for being back with us for episode number 10. I'm really excited that you're here today
Kenny Wilks: and great to be back with you and Ed.
Susan Kang: Okay, awesome.
Kenny on KU Hospital Spinoff
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Susan Kang: So we've been teasing up in the last couple of episodes around the transformation surrounding the health system. So tell us about that.
Kenny Wilks: You know, it's, it's a great story and it's one I'm privileged to have been a part of, actually for almost 30 years now. I haven't worked at the health system that long, but I actually date back to 1997. 1997 when it was the issue of the session, the issue was the spinoff of the University of the
Ed O'Malley: legislative session.
Kenny Wilks: [00:15:00] Of the legislative session, right. The, the, the Kansas legislative session, 1997 took up the policy to form a public authority to separate. The University of Kansas Hospital, basically from the state. We won't get into all that detail, but it was, it was major, major legislation. It consumed the entire session.
There was some complicating factors in the final passage of the act occurred in January of 1998, and on October 1st, 1990. State after all 80 plus years of it operating under the University of Kansas, the university and the state, the hospital was spun off and it had its own board of directors form.
Mm-hmm. Which Bill Graves recruited and its own checkbook for the first time. Mm-hmm. Part of the agreement in that spinoff. Is that the hospital authority would not seek nor ask for state appropriations. So the hospital spun off. They got about $23 [00:16:00] million at the time which was not enough to even cover the first payroll.
But it, it, it is actually what I would categorize as one of the great public policy successes in the state of Kansas.
Ed O'Malley: Hey, can you keep going?
From Worst to Best Culture Shift
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Ed O'Malley: But people need to understand it was thought of as. Like the worst or one of the worst hospitals in the nation.
Kenny Wilks: Well, it wasn't just thought of. We actually had the data to prove,
Ed O'Malley: I mean, so like all that debate was happening because like, there was a massive problem.
Kenny Wilks: There was a massive problem. In 1995, there was a a major article about a heart program and a heart transplant program got shut down. It was a, it was a dark day for many, many people. There was lots of problems. If you go back to 1992, that was when there was. Major health reform attempted by the Clinton administration that surfaced all kinds of problems across the country.
If you are a weak performing financially institution, you really got exposed. That's part of what it was, all kinds of factors that spun off into that. But [00:17:00] the legislature made the decision in cooperation with, with the leaders at the time to spin the hospital off. They did and they had the data they had, they had went out and surveyed.
Patient satisfaction was at or below the fifth percentile in the United States. The only reason we know that is they stopped measuring at the fifth percentile. It, it was when you asked the question, would you recommend of the employees, would you recommend the health system as a place to come get your care, or for a family member to work here?
It too was in the bottom percentile in the United States, so it was documented as being one of the most undesirable hospitals in the country. That was the starting point. The leadership at the time that took on this responsibility literally stood up, and I'm, I'm oversimplifying, but they literally stood up and said, we, we are going to become the best hospital.
In America, and if you wanna be part of that journey, we want you on the team. If that's not a journey for [00:18:00] you, then maybe this is not your place. Well, every, there was 2200 employees at the time. Everybody got to decide.
Susan Kang: Mm-hmm.
Kenny Wilks: If they wanted to stay with the authority, I, I mean, go to the authority or stay a state employee.
If you wanted to stay a state employee, the legislature guaranteed you a job, not necessarily at the hospital. We'd transfer you and find you all of the 2200 employees elected. To stay at the authority, which was remarkable. And again, the leadership spearheaded by Irene Cummings and others standing before everybody saying, we're going to become just kinda like, what, what KHF is doing?
We're gonna be number one. We're gonna be the best hospital in America. People were literally laughing. I mean, they're like, you, you gotta, they just couldn't believe. Well, the first three years there was about 35% turnover. Which is a lot, right? Mm-hmm. Because they actually met what they said. Well, then things started to change, and there's a guiding formula.
It's really pretty simple, but it's, the hospitals used it. Health system. Health system's, really the brand name [00:19:00] now for the hospital, but have used it for almost 30 years now and it absolutely works there.
Metrics and Momentum Wins
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Kenny Wilks: There's kind of three key measures. We measure patient satisfaction, we measure quality through what's called CMI case mix.
That's that is a quality. Did you deliver? Did you deny patient satisfaction? Never questioned. Every patient, every days that goes through our system gets a survey. Mm-hmm. And then we have a people, we add all that together. If you get those, if you get those numbers right, then your financial performance will follow.
So we didn't put the finances on the top. The finances are really kind of what follow those other key measures. and, and The history has been incredible. As I said, we started at a really low. Standpoint. We, we talked a little bit about we quickly and I wasn't at the hospital at the time, but I was still in legislature and I was very interested in it, so I followed the story and stayed close to the health system, and it was really a gift for me to be able to join the team in 2009.
And I was watching this. They literally, as they [00:20:00] started making, so you, you go from 5% to 10% or 12% on patient satisfaction, what do you do? And somebody said, you know what? We need to celebrate that we're not number one. That's, that's great progress. Yeah. And, and so the hospital took on this culture of celebrating and, and if you're, by the way, if Unit 56 made the progress, that unit celebrated.
Well, if you're unit 58, you saw the celebration going on and, and generally they would all join in, well, your unit then. And it really become this kind of self perpetuating model. And those little victories just kind of kept adding up. Today we typically are always above the 90 90th percentile. Mm-hmm. Our CMI has dropped as one of the lowest in the country.
we're proud. As, as, as the name of the book is proud but never satisfied. Still try. We're not number one yet, but we're on our way. But there's so many leadership lessons to learn there, and there was great risk taken by our leaders. Actually, I would suggest there was risks taken by [00:21:00] the people that decided to stay and go on the journey.
But I think most would say one of the best decisions that they made.
Risky Turnaround Story
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Kenny Wilks: I've certainly been proud to be a part of it for the last 16, 17 years.
Ed O'Malley: And real quick, just for our listeners, so Kenny, you just referenced the book written by Bob Page and Tammy Peterman.
Kenny Wilks: Correct.
Ed O'Malley: Who are the, the top two executives at the University of Kansas Health System today.
And they wrote a book called Proud but Never Satisfied. And it's the story of this transformation. And of course. Now most of us know that the University of Kansas Health System is one of the premier hospital systems in the nation. So what an inspirational story, and I think you're right, legislators took risk.
Governor Graves took a lot of risk and I, I had the PLE pleasure of working for him and joining the staff right around that time and hearing some of the conversations about like, should we do this or not? This is kind of risky. You know, those new board members that were recruited to be a board member of a hospital.
And one that was struggling. Like, that's a risky thing to say yes to, you know?
Kenny Wilks: Very, and he had, he had to, [00:22:00] he had to physically recruit. Yeah. One of those board members. And, and of course today we, we have lots of folks that want to join our board.
Ed O'Malley: Well, yeah, it's easy to want to join a board of a well performing organization, but to, to join.
I mean, even just the risk of Governor Graves recruiting people and like, hi, him know, knowing that there's, there's a good chance it might not end up being a great experience. Because of how bad the hospital, the shape the hospital was in. But wow, the turnaround it, the 22, the 2200 employees taking a risk on staying.
So risk all throughout that conversation. So what a great way to tee up this conversation about leadership. It's risky. It's risky for the reason Susan, you and I were talking about earlier is that you're disrupting things. You're changing things. You're saying the status quo is not okay, we're gonna do something different and you gotta find your way forward.
So, so Susan. Get us, get us into this conversation.
Susan Kang: Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that story that, you know, it's, it's I, I love that it's an example of that [00:23:00] transformation from where you started to where you are now and have continued at the level that you have with the 90% satisfaction rate.
That that's amazing.
Pay It Forward Mindset
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Susan Kang: So I wanna talk about the risk reward imbalance that Ed alluded to in earlier in the conversation. So how do you, right, so the, how do you, how do the 30,000 which you are a part of, stay motivated to lead on the issues that may not benefit them directly, but benefit others?
Kenny Wilks: That, that's a great question and actually a great place for me to start. 'cause I, I, I've thought about that and, and, you know, let me just say from a personal standpoint, this is how I approach it.
Susan Kang: Mm-hmm.
Kenny Wilks: I would invite others. This may or may not fit for, for others, but I'd invite you to at least wrestle with this a little bit.
I start out by stepping back and recognized, recognizing how blessed I am. I've just had a lot of wonderful things happen in my life. I try to be grateful every day and I [00:24:00] recognize the opportunities I've had, the places I've got to go, the things I've got to do, the challenges I've got to work on.
I, I really have looked at it now as a blessing and I feel very fortunate and, and my attitude is I, I had a lot of people help me. I had a lot of chances provided to me that I tried to take advantage of, and now is my time to pay it forward. That's a term. There's a movie, I think about it. It's a great movie.
You haven't seen it. I think that's what it's called. But, but basically the concept is I, I've, I've had a lot of people help me. It's now my turn. To try to make a difference for other folks and for, for our communities in our state. So I, I just morally feel an obligation to do that. I, I frankly, if, if, if you're part of the 30,000, I wanna suggest that you too have, have, have had a lot of great things maybe come your way.
You too have had people help you. And it's our time now and, and frankly. I [00:25:00] find nothing Susan, more satisfying than helping a, a, a, a young person in their career tackle a really difficult challenge and see them get it and make progress and, and, and, and get the rewards. And, you know, listening to how Ed opened this up, talking about risk, you know, ri risk is emotional.
Right? When we think about risk, it's an emotional word of you. You wanna think about it, it's scary. It, it can be very uncomfortable. Right? And we tend to focus on that. I would also, so the risk reward, I would also suggest to you, in my experience, has been when you take risk and you really calculate it and you understand there's nothing more invigorating, there's nothing more fulfilling.
If you don't take some risk, you, you, you're never going to experience that real rush of satisfaction. And, and, and for me, as far as, you know, being part of the 30,000 [00:26:00] and trying to pay it forward, seeing those people grow and make a difference most. Satisfying thing I've done in my career.
E even though I don't, I don't need to be out front. I don't need to have my name mentioned. I really have come, become quite comfortable with that, but I love seeing other people succeed.
Susan Kang: Yeah.
Hallmark Promotion Risk
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Susan Kang: Can you give us an example of that satisfaction you got after taking this risk?
Kenny Wilks: I, I guess, a, a couple examples first, and I'll go back to my Hallmark days and way back into the eighties when I got my first opportunity.
So my career passed a bit different. I started at Hallmark at age 19. Hallmark was wonderful for me. I ended up getting my education there and they paid for all of it. Mm-hmm. Which I'm very grateful for. Another grateful thing. I wouldn't recommend it necessarily. It's a hard way to do it, but I got it done.
But I had the opportunity to get promoted at Hallmark cards and for all of those folks that are, are working and if you two have an opportunity to get promoted out of a kind [00:27:00] of a line job into a management job. It was a section manager at the time. And it didn't take me long to realize, man, was that ever.
Different. And I, I had underestimated the risk I was taking, and I did not understand how I was gonna be treated by my coworkers.
Susan Kang: Mm-hmm.
Kenny Wilks: And I had to very quickly decide, did I wanna stay in a management role or did I not? Because my friends and my coworkers really wanted to pull me back. They didn't get the promotion I did, and I had to do a lot of self-evaluation.
It took me six to eight months to work through that. But I finally accepted the fact that some of, those relationships, Susan's were never gonna be the same. That was really hard. Mm-hmm. That was hard to leave that behind. But I decided not to take it personal and I decided I made the decision to move forward.
I, I would take probably one of the best decisions I ever made. So tremendous risk there.
Post 9 11 Budget Crisis
---
Kenny Wilks: The, the other one where as far as [00:28:00] disappointing and, and bringing people along, and we don't need to spend a whole lot of time, but professionally absolutely the hardest thing I've ever taken on in my entire career professionally.
And it was 2002. It was after the nine 11 attacks. Mm-hmm. Many people will remember that. Many won't. But the entire state economy collapsed. I was chairing the budget committee at the time one of one. It was just a horrible experience. In April of 2002, the bottom literally fell out of the economy and we had to go back and redo the budget.
So we had to make massive budget cuts. Massive budget cuts hundreds of millions of dollars, and we had to raise taxes. And at the time, it was the largest tax increase that had been passed, maybe ever. It was little had to do both of those sinks. Mm I, I'll never forget the first set of votes that we put on the floored we needed 125, we needed 63 votes.
[00:29:00] We started with six. And we had to get to 63. Hmm. And it, it was in Incre. Incredibly difficult. Managed to get the job done at the end of that session. Had I not already filed for reelection, I would not have filed because I, I didn't think I could get elected dog catcher let alone get reelected to my position because I had disappointed so many people.
There was just no, no choice had to make decisions that were God awful. And what ended up happening, it was the first time in my legislative career actually run unopposed. Now that doesn't always happen. But what I learned from that, it was a great learning. I had a lot of people that did not agree with the decisions that we made, but they respected the fact that we made decisions and we moved forward and we did the best that we could do under the circumstances, and they accepted that.
And so for all the folks that are wrestling with this question of risk, [00:30:00] embrace it. Embrace it, it can be one of the most rewarding things that you'll ever do, and, and I just can't imagine not taking some risk mm-hmm. To, to have experienced those rewards.
Salad Week Disruption
---
Ed O'Malley: I, I remember. Those days.
I wasn't in the legislature when you had that moment where you had to erase taxes and cut spending. But I was watching and I remember that you all took a lot of heat as chair of the appropriations committee and then still gonna
Kenny Wilks: have some scars.
Ed O'Malley: Yeah, then we won.
Kenny Wilks: Display 'em, but yeah.
Ed O'Malley: Then Speaker of the House, Kent Glascock, you all took a lot of heat that session for a lot of reasons, but one of the things you all took heat about. Was like you, you knew that you all were trying to mobilize that group to do something they didn't want to do. Raise taxes, and we're in a financial crisis in our country.
Right? Like this was, this was a scary time. And you all created what you called salad week, where you said, look, this week we're gonna vote on every [00:31:00] possible tax increase out there. And it's gonna be like, make your own salad. They're gonna be at a salad bar. You decide, I remember watching this. Hmm. And your own people got so mad at you, like your own faction.
Your other Republicans got so mad that you were forcing discussion and ultimately votes and, but you did it 'cause you had to know where people were and like, like what might have energy, what might not have energy. And I just think it's a good example of what we're saying in this chapter is that what often happens with the 30,000.
With people in authority is that they kind of subconsciously try to figure out how, how, how do we actually keep everything just kind of calm? And the 30,000 actually often gets rewarded for nobody being disrupted. Like nobody like having to do anything uncomfortable. Like that's when, when you're a speaker of the house or you're the, the manager of the, of the [00:32:00] department.
If, if you don't ask anybody to do anything uncomfortable, people love you. You know, but if you don't ask anybody to do anything uncomfortable, you're not gonna do anything except perpetuate the status quo. And so what this chapter is saying is, Hey, 30,000, we need more of you to realize we, we need you to ask your people to do uncomfortable things when it comes to improving health.
And it's gonna be hard and. There are ways you can mitigate that risk, which we talk about in the chapter, which we won't get into in detail here, but there are ways you can mitigate risk. Like one way is go together, don't go alone. You know, don't do this by yourself. Don't be a superhero. Right. But there's risk involved.
And you guys modeled that so, so well back then.
Kenny Wilks: Well, I, yeah. At the time I don't know that we viewed it that way. You know, I, I, I frankly have never talked about this, but as I think about those times, those, those were hard times. Yeah. I
Susan Kang: can imagine.
Capitol Restoration Resolve
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Kenny Wilks: But, but something we did do, and at the time, so Steve Morris was my [00:33:00] counterpart over in the Senate.
He was chairing the Senate ways and means. I was chair the budget committee, and early on we, we knew we were in. For a really, really, really tough ride. And, and, and we said, you know, we're gonna get through this. It's gonna be hard, but we, I want to share this because it's most people don't know this story but many, many, many, many Kansas to get to enjoy it.
Today we were right in the middle of the capital restoration. So we had just started making 1999
Ed O'Malley: beautiful capital building. This was a massive multi-hundred million dollar renovation.
Kenny Wilks: It was not beautiful at the time. The place was falling down, and I'll never forget it in January. Steve and I agreed that no matter what happened in the budget.
We were going to keep the capital restoration project going. We would not defund it. We feared if we defunded it that it would be decades before the legislature would ever take it up and finish it. Mm-hmm. And we thought the [00:34:00] symbolism. Of keeping that project moving and bringing the beautiful capital back to the, to the restoration and the beauty that it once had was that important that we were willing to take.
And it, we, we, God hammered over that. But today, you know, today they, people can't imagine. And I am always happy to my former colleague, well not colleagues now, but the people that serve now. I, when they complain even a little bit about their offices, I like to break out the pictures and show 'em what it was like before.
But, you know, that was an example. When it gets hard, make sure you're picking some stuff that you, you just, you gotta stick with it, and that'll be the things that you'll look back on and feel the best about in the years to come.
Everyday Risk Examples
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Ed O'Malley: I, I wanna try to. I love these stories and I think they're good examples.
And I also wanna give some little micro examples to people about the type of risk we [00:35:00] imagine members of the 30,000 will need to take. Mm-hmm. In order to improve capital H Health. So things like, we write about these in the book that like it's risky for an executive in a food retail business to raise questions about a correlation between his company's products.
All of which are high in preservative sugar and fat, and the fact that cantons are becoming less healthy, like that would be risky for that business person to raise questions about that. We all understand why. Right? Right. Okay. It's risky for an employee to question why physical health seems to be respected in her company, but not so much mental health.
You can imagine like an employee that, that'd be, that'd be risky, right? Or like a manager in a big company that'd be risky for her to say, Hey senior executives, how come we seem to value one type of health but not the other? That's risky, right? You might feel it, but to actually act on it is risky. You know, it's risky for a conservative elected official [00:36:00] to give a speech about how we all contribute to the health of one another and how we need to do more collectively.
For health that that would be risky in our current political climate. Right. Likewise, it would be risky for a progressive activist to write a column, challenging advocacy organizations to see conservative policy makers as partners. In creating a stronger, healthier Kansas rather than the problem, right?
Like all of those things, those examples would feel risky for the person doing them. And what we're really trying to say with this chapter is, Hey, we all need to just dial up the risk. Factor a little bit. If right now we're at a two on our ability to handle risk, we gotta get to a five, just a little.
We don't have to go to a 10, but we gotta dial it up just a little bit.
Susan Kang: Yeah. And Kenny, what I love is, so what Ed is encouraging people to do I think maybe more people might do, in part because you sharing your stories about the amount of satisfaction that [00:37:00] you were able to achieve as a result of taking.
The, the risk, high risk, high reward type of a situation. Right. So I, I really appreciate you sharing those stories.
Kenny Wilks: Yeah.
Acceptance And Pushback
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Kenny Wilks: And, you know, and let's, let's not underestimate, I don't think any of us can to deny this. We, we, we all wanna be accepted.
Susan Kang: Mm-hmm.
Kenny Wilks: We all wanna be liked, of course. Right, ed? I mean, who, who doesn't listen?
Sure. You know, I, I don't know anybody that doesn't wanna be accepted. You know, we get in our groups, we get in our tribes, we get in our, whatever it might be, and we wanna be liked, we wanna be accepted, we wanna be thought of, and we want, wanna, like our ideas. When you start offering some challenging ideas like that, depending on how I, I liked your, you know, put a number on it, but you got a one to 10.
If you're at a two, let's try to get to a five. You don't. Have to try to go to eight or nine, but the fact of the matter is there'll be some people that maybe won't like you quite as much. You know, I didn't know that about Ed. I didn't know he had that belief. And really, golly, gee, I, that makes [00:38:00] me feel differently.
I don't, I don't know that I want Ed as close a friend as I thought maybe I, I mean, those things all happen and I think we as an individual. Can start by when somebody offers us an idea that we find maybe offensive, and we want to have those reactions catch ourselves and say, wait a minute, wait a minute.
What I still like, ed, I may not agree with you, but I still like it just as much as I did and let's explore that and Ed, you and I have many conversations and they're very rich that that's what I would. Embrace, manage it. Right. Don't go too far. But be willing to challenge ya and don't, don't let people walk away and not like you or not accept you because you got some different ideas and you're trying to change.
You know, I always like to say people resist change. 'cause you make 'em think. And a lot of people don't wanna think. They, they, they, it, it's a painful process, right?
Susan Kang: Yeah.
Kenny Wilks: But we all have to think different. We're gonna have to act different if we wanna move these numbers. [00:39:00] Yeah.
Make Leadership Ubiquitous
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Susan Kang: So once again, our time has really flown by amazing discussion.
But one thing I do wanna highlight before we end this, this session here, here's, here's the thing that I think is really important for me. I love the concept of making leadership skills ubiquitous. Ed writes in the book, right? So essentially, essentially to my mind, the way I interpret that is it's building a culture that tolerates risk.
And the person who is in the 30,000. Can help to mitigate that risk, to help help us to tolerate more risk. And so specifically in the book it says, the people who mobilize things to bring about the change are the ones who can effectively mitigate the risk enough for others to join in. The more people leading equals lower risk for all involved, and that gets you more progress.
I really, really love that sentiment and the whole notion of risk, you know, making leadership skill skills ubiquitous. And so I was gonna ask a question around that, but I think I just, I'm not gonna do it. We don't have enough time. [00:40:00] But I, I want, I wanted to highlight that 'cause it is really, really important to me personally.
And I think that's what, I think that's what Ed has done actually at KHF for us.
Resources And Final Challenge
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Kenny Wilks: Well, I, I'd, I'd kind of wrap up, Susan, by first of all saying thank you, Susan. Thank you, ed, for having me back. I enjoy being here and you know, I wanna challenge myself and, and maybe challenge the, the ED and, and Susan here.
I, I'm, I'm making an assumption about the 30,000, I'm making an assumption about the 30,000 that you're very comfortable taking on risks, that you're very comfortable with. All these concepts we've been talking about, whether it be adaptive leadership, technical leadership, and maybe some of you.
Don't know that, and, and, and you might be a little bit afraid to say, you know, I really need to know more. Hey, please know, I know this for an absolute fact, and I think Ed and Susan can reinforce there's all kinds. So if this, this whole. Discussion about risk. Has you scratching your head saying what I, I need to know more about this.
I need to know how to reach out. KLC is here. The Kansas Leadership Center [00:41:00] is absolutely here to help you. The Health Foundation is here to help you. If you don't have the answers, if you don't, if you have questions, please, please reach out. There's tremendous resources here. Exercise, reach out, get the help.
And I, I just close by saying and I, this has served me well. Don't wake up 10 years from now and say to yourselves, I wished I would've. Fill in the blank. Don't, don't do that. If there's something you want to do, but there's something holding you back, think about what that is. Figure out what resources you need to help yourself move forward and then go do it.
'cause there's lots of resources here just waiting for you to ask for the help.
Ed O'Malley: Kenny. I I, I love that. Yeah. That's a good reminder for people. And, and you, you're, you're right there. There are people here ready and willing. Not just at the Kansas Leadership Center and the Kansas Health Foundation, but even beyond that want to [00:42:00] support people who are willing to take risks.
Leadership Change Risk Wrap
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Ed O'Malley: I think what's done through my mind right now is it's really a pretty simple formula. You know, leadership is about change. If there's no change, like positive change, I don't think there's any leadership. Okay. Leadership is about change. Change is about disruption, disruption. Risky. The way you make it less risky is to be really good at the exercise of leadership.
You don't eliminate the risk, you mitigate it, and especially to Susan, your last point, if you get lots of people exercising leadership. It mitigates the risk even more.
Closing And Next Chapter
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Ed O'Malley: Thanks for a great conversation, Kenny. We appreciate your leadership and your support of helping Kansas lead the nation in health.
Thanks everybody for joining us. Next time, we'll be in the final chapter of part two, where we will explore [00:43:00] why it's a leadership challenge, because authority, while critical isn't enough to get the job done, we'll explore that next time. Thanks everybody.