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Michael learns from John Chief Calf, Coordinator of Indigenous Education for Lethbridge School District 51, about Indigenous understandings of the environment, and how meaningful conversations can make a difference towards climate change.
Michael is on a quest to get his environmental footprint as low as humanly possible. So he built his own off-grid Tiny House. But downsizing and minimizing weren’t enough. He had to take more drastic measures, altering his lifestyle in some extreme ways, all in the name of saving the planet. But when it comes to his goal, he still feels in over his head. He doesn’t know if all the downsizing, minimizing, reducing, reusing, recycling, and sacrificing make a difference. It’s time to bring in the experts.
Join Michael as he sits down with scientists, policymakers, industry leaders, and environmental experts to figure out how to effectively reduce his footprint in all aspects of life. From food and fast fashion to cars and caskets, he gets into what the worst culprits really are and how we can all make more informed choices when it comes to the impact we have on the planet.
If you have feedback or would like to be a guest on In Over My Head, please email: info@inovermyhead.com
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program was produced with a support of Storyhive creativity, connected by Telus. For more information, please visit storyhive.com.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Well, I'm in over my head. No one told me, trying to keep my footprint small was harder than I thought it could be. Tryin’ to save the planet. Oh, will someone please save me. Tryin’ to save the planet, oh will someone please save me?
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Welcome to in over my head. I'm Michael Bartz. My guest today is John Chief Calf. John is an unassuming and insightful leader who possesses a deep understanding of how to bring community together in his role as secondary FNMI lead teacher. Over the past two years, chief cath has demonstrated the ability to infuse indigenous ways in Lethbridge school district. Number 51, well respected as an educator and role model in the realm of professional learning. She can understand successful leaders, bring people together to achieve common goals. So welcome to in over my head, John, thanks so much for joining me. Oh, thanks
Speaker 4 (01:04):
For having me with this interview
Speaker 3 (01:07):
For sure. So the reason I brought you on to this conversation is, so for me, I'm building this off-grid tiny home. I want to save the planet and I feel in over my head and, and I feel like so much of the conversation is about technology and how do we fix this and how do we, you know, do that with something and build something. And, and so I thought I'd just bring another side of it. I was reading a book called it was from Wade Davis. He's a anthropologist, a Canadian anthropologist, and it's called the Wayfinders. It's about why traditional societies matter now. And a lot of that is about environmentalism. So I thought I would bring you in and talk about from a traditional Blackfoot perspective how the environment and, and how we could possibly talk about saving the planet in from your view. So my first question for you is how does the traditional Blackfoot culture view nature?
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Well, I just wanted to again, you know, just backtrack a little bit. Sure. so my, my my grandfather, my father they never really spoke Blackfoot. Okay. So my understanding is that through that language and through the description of that language and nature, the, the two are related, except the only difference with that language is that you really looking at nature as a, as a complete animate system. So so just to kind of express a little bit of the, I guess you could say the confusion when I was going to school here in Lethbridge is that if I was to look like for example, if I was to say sun and, and the blackfoot the, the English translation for sun and Blackfoot would be naatosi, but if I'm sort of understanding it from a Blackwood perspective, if it encompasses a process, so it would be sun, naatosi, it provides the right circumstance for us to be here.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
So some of the, some of the understanding about blackfoot one interpretation is that opposite Aapostatoki, meaning a creator, there's a creative, there's a, it creates things. And then it's about to be out meaning from what I understood a source of life, meaning the, the energy, what it does for vegetation all the things that it does for the earth and for the human body. And then it was, it's also considered to it's that sign, meaning medicinal what it does, it nourishes things. So the appreciation then becomes non-toxic. I appreciate that intelligence system.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
So do the Blackfoot language from what I understand its nature as an intelligence system. And, and so if it's an intelligence system, then there are teachings in that system. So part of that system then teaches you how to survive in this environment, which which of course can, can change quite fast, teaches you how to survive in the winter and all the other things. And so you start to realize that the whole at, well, at least for me, you start, I start to realize that it really nature really is an intelligent system. So you would respect it as you would another human being. So if you take something from nature, you put something back in its place in a sense you, you try to continue to maintain and an ecological balance, an ecological balance, wherever your environment that you're in. So I remember when I was a kid we when we were kids, we used to go and pick all the the driftwood and we used to pile it up beside the house.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
We would burn certain parts of the grass. So it'd be green this way. There wouldn't be any rattlesnakes nearby where we were at the choke cherries were nearby. We went hunting for deer. We went fishing when I was kids. Me and my buddy, we used to go fishing at the St Mary's river, and we would you would hunt pike. And so all of those things were, were natural. And, and the river was still quite clean. I remember as kids, we would pick colored rocks and throw them in the water and jump in with our eyes open to look which rock we threw in. So again, it's that whole connection to land that it that relationship. And of course you start to look at it sometimes in sequence and then patterns as well. And so I remember asking no one of my uncles years ago, why is the circle so important?
Speaker 4 (07:12):
And that the language from what I understand is based as a circular system, meaning that a lot of your entry points can come in from anywhere as well as your exit points. So for example the sun is round stars around the trees around the, at Hills is round spiderwebs, rocks rivers have semi-circles necessary around. And if you start to look at things around nature, the evidence in nature suggests that life is cyclical circular. So your child, adolescent adult old age. So your mind transitions almost like from childhood to childhood. So it becomes cyclical again, but as I, as I keep trying to understand the language more. Yeah. I remember number when I was a child, I used to look outside the window and I'd see my grandfather on on the morning when the sun rises orange. And I, I used to hear him talk and I was wondering why he was talking to the sun. And so I noticed that that morning they they'd be an orange. The clouds would be orange. The ground would almost be like orange. And what he was doing as I found out later is that he was assessing his life from the son's perspective.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
And, and so with those, because now they're not just one perspective anymore, they're two perspectives. He's not just thinking about himself, he's thinking about his family and he's thinking about the environment. And so when those things were put into perspective, what is your human connection to the environment and what is your non human connection to the environment? And those perspectives I thought were really unique. So so hierarchy, I guess you could say it wasn't really about hierarchy. It was more about pursuit of balance and that perspective. And so I, I, I, you know, to this day, I still think it's a really, really interesting way for me to, to look at nature as a form of balance. And, and then have, there are small little things that, that still seem to help me personally, I seem to think about better in, in, in natural environments, I suppose, to man-made environments.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
And, and little questions start to come up sort of about just the indigenous cultural perspective. And I remember a couple of years ago having the discussion with some teachers and one of the teachers said that why, why is it that you don't interrupt? Like another person when they're talking specifically an, an old person and the elder as we would call today. And I basically said that it's based on, on respect from what I understand. And, and I had a hard time explaining that. So what we did was a group of us, I think it was five of us. We, we drove out to the reserve like four 30 in the morning, and we just sat there. We didn't say a word. All of a sudden that the coyotes were yelping and then, you know, 500 yards behind us, another group where yelping. So it w and then another group about a kilometer down the road, again, all of that was done in sequence. And then when the coyotes were done, then the birds start chirping and another set of birds start chirping. And then as the sun was coming up, a group of birds flew up in one direction, the hill, another group of birds, and then they folded together in front of us, and then they flew away.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
So the idea is that it's if I had spoken any time in between that time, we wouldn't have understood the full concept. We wouldn't have understood the full idea of how nature communicates and wakes up. So in the idea is that you start to see nature through conversation as, as a co-operative system. So it's, it's a different way that I grew up. So,
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Yeah. And from what you're talking about now, for me, I really hear the word respect coming out quite a bit, respecting nature, respecting the environment. Do you feel like that's out of balance now with the way things are that we're not respecting nature the way we should be?
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Well, I would have to say yes, because mostly because of what, it's, what it's done to me in a different sense. You know, because, you know, again, growing up with the Blackfoot language, it's, it's expresses itself as a circular system, as, as based on the relationship that everything is connected and that there's really no hierarchal order because your frames of references could be anywhere. It could be the sun, it could be an Eagle Eagle's perspective observing two rivers, go down side-by-side there. They eventually come together. Like there there's different ways to express wisdom through nature as well through listening and observation. But then I, when I attended all my education in Lethbridge I had to understand a hierarchy order.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
And so now frames of references were now separate we're. Now I was taught that nature is animate and inanimate system, as opposed to Blackfoot, it's a completely animate system. So, you know, through no fault of my teachers, when I was going to school, they, they just didn't understand the indigenous frame of reference and no fault through my, my grandfather and father who never spoke English, didn't understand the frame of reference from an educational standpoint. So in that I think the balance, hopefully a lot I'm finding is, is, is happening, but it has to happen through conversation to begin with. And so I've just, don't think we've had that conversation. I think we've had that conversation in pockets, but I think those are conversations that can begin to happen. So I, I would have to say there is not a template.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
And do you think having those larger conversations, is that a way to possibly, as I say, save the planet, but to help with climate change to make things more balanced? Possibly?
Speaker 4 (15:04):
I think so. I mean, I, what I would have to say is that it helps to sort of reframe and reassess how we can understand nature and respect nature a lot more. Again, with, with perspective. I, you know, I, I remember you know, in high school, a group of friends of mine came out to the reserve that I knew in Lethbridge and were having coffee sitting outside. And one of my friends had said, you know, John, how come you don't have a lawn? And I, I saw, I said, I told why I don't understand, why would you have a lawn? So I said, the lawn is like, to me, is, is the Hills the river, the natural environment.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
And what, what was his response to why?
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Well, his response from what I remember is that he still could not understand that concept. He says, you should have a fence. You should have like green line. I said, no, that, that doesn't make any sense to me. And so it was really interesting you know, but, and then I come to his house and, you know, he has a, a really beautiful lawn that, again the good part about that friendship is that we were able to talk and to create some understanding. And then I remember a couple of months down the road, he would say had you ever heard him calling me? We were talking. And he says, well, when I have my own house, I may not have a lawn. That's nice. So it was but you know, again, a unique insights I think really come with with with friendships as well, and again, being able to stay.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yeah. Yeah. And I think also having seen both sides of it right. Because from his perspective, having a lot of make perfect sense and for you, it just didn't. So, and it's either, right. I guess in this context, I would say no lawn is better from an environmental standpoint cause they're pretty useless, but yeah, I think you're right. Having that connection and those friendships and having meaningful conversations that are productive, I think is a good thing as well.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
I just, yeah, it was interesting because it's amazing how I would have to say that, you know, the more understanding that we got of each other, the more that we began to sort of ask some questions and explore things that I think that sort of was educational in a different sense for, for myself and for that group of individuals there. And so when I, when I'm in the system here and I'm trying to, you know, express sort of an indigenous perspective, my, my understanding is that nature is the foundation and that if we, if we listened to that process and if we look at either what does balance mean respecting nature, not taking things away, just kind of have some natural environments, then there's something to be learned from that. Hm.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
And do you feel like you're making progress with those conversations? Are people receptive?
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Well I'm starting to find that those conversations are starting to happen, but one of the things about the Blackfoot language, which I think with people finding it difficult to understand is that in, from my understanding, in order to understand the Blackfoot language, you have to experience the language. Very much like the way we went to go listen to nature, wake up, even some of the, some of the words that are descriptive, like if I was to say ooh and I would say, oh, there's almost like the sound of the wind of the prefix of that word. Oh. And then poo. It's a, it's a soft bounce. The wind is hitting you soft or helpful. Then the suffix of that word pookaa, child soft wind. So when you talk to a child soft tone. Hmm. So, and again, it you're experiencing that word in nature.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
When you experienced that with those words in nature, you also express tone and respect in tone and communication. And I think that that's one of the reasons why the Blackfoot songs w I call them meditation tones or, or tones of expression. And and there'll be called to sort of help other individuals they would call them healing songs in the sense, because you're constantly expressing a positive intention back to that individual through song. So but you would have to participate in that to understand that because you'd have to feel the vibration of drum and sitting around that group. And that's a lot different from reading it in a text and, and looking and looking at just translation. It wouldn't be the same.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
So is there an opportunity for people who aren't from the Blackfoot culture, maybe in Southern Alberta here is there an opportunity for them to learn more about the culture, about the language to get involved possibly?
Speaker 4 (21:17):
I would say that, that there is, but what, what I, what I I've experienced that sort of in three different ways, one is when I've taken teachers and individuals like to, to participate in, in, in, in the words, whether that's a walk through nature looking at nature as an animate system looking for evidence in nature to support what the curriculum that they're teaching you know, we often talk about like indigenous math, like this. It's really hard to find a concept of math from an indigenous perspective. But if we, if we look at it from a sort of different set of lens, it's very close to sequence math, like Fibonacci math. Again, you're looking at patterns and circles and triangles. You're looking at sequences in, in, in leaves and pine needles. And so you're looking at sequence and that's the way I've understood math in that sense.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
But a lot of it, from what I've understood is, is relationships. So it is hard to have that conversation because I can speak with another blackfoot, with an individual that was raised similar like that. And we could understand nature, especially when it's spoken in Blackfoot, but then with a non-indigenous component, what I use that, that conversation takes a different turn. That conversation now becomes well. You always connected to nature. How, how have you done that? May, maybe that's your starting point. So what I find is that with, with non-indigenous people, it's when I have that, when I'm working, I usually will ask you, what is your connection and how do you connect? And does any of that connection? Can you find an insight into a blackfoot Blackfoot indigenous connection? So it's almost as if they have to re reconstruct their frames of references or deconstruct as well, and then sort of start looking at things from, again, different perspectives, you know, from the animate inanimate perspective, but also from that animate perspective.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
So I would have to say that there's more tools through an educational sense to have those conversations. And, and I'm thinking that for me, I'm finding that those conversations are still like, like now starting to happen, as opposed to when I was really young, we didn't even touch it. We didn't even touch it in the curriculum. I know when I was young I think the only indigenous content we had in the curriculum was the Aztecs and Iroquois, and that was like about two or three pages, I think. Yeah. And so and now there's you know, we have to cover the TQS five with the Alberta curriculum, a teacher quality service, five about indigenous ways of knowing. So it's, it's, it's, I would have to say, it's a fairly new conversation,
Speaker 3 (24:49):
But yeah, it sounds like it's happening and people are, are open to it. So that's great. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for this conversation, John. I think I've, I've learned a lot and I really hope that people connect more with nature today or in the future. Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for coming.
Okay. That was my conversation with John. The biggest thing for me was I loved his storytelling ability. It really drew me in, and I think even if we can have more conversations like that, and then we're getting somewhere, that's all for me. I'm Michael Bartz. Here's the feeling a little less in over our heads when it comes to saving the planet.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
See you again Soon.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
In over over my head was produced and hosted by Michael Bartz. sound engineering by Rodrigo Henriquez. Original music by Gabriel Thaine special, thanks to Lisa Pruden and Jessica Gibson.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
This program was produced with a support Telus.