058 | Stephen Myers | The First Steps in a New Market | Dynamic Beverage Consultants

Show Notes

Episode Deep-Dive Analysis Available at maffeodrinks.com 

In Episode 58, I chatted with Stephen Myers, Founder of Dynamic Beverage Consultants. He is also one of the Originals at Ilegal Mezcal. We dived into the crucial aspects of launching a new brand in the (US) market and how to avoid expensive mistakes. I hope you will enjoy our chat.

Time Stamps

0:00 Intro

0:51 About Steve

4:26 Brand Or Liquid Lead

6:34 Brand Story & Differentiation

12:28 Target Occasion

14:06 Creating Demand

16:57 Great Marketing, Bad Commercials

21:20 Beyond Categories

22:36 Breaking Into New Markets (Relationship Chaining)

28:07 Drinks Relationship Ecosystem

33:50 Outro

About The Host: Chris Maffeo

About The Guest: Stephen Myers

Interested in Group Subscriptions, Keynote Presentations or Advisory? You can get in touch at [e-mail] or find out more at maffeodrinks.com 

Creators and Guests

Host

Chris Maffeo

Drinks Leadership Advisor | Bridging Bottom-Up Reality & Top-Down Expectations

Guest

Stephen Myers

Dynamic Beverage Consultants | Ex Ilegal Mezcal | Ex Mr. Black

What is MAFFEO DRINKS?

The MAFFEO DRINKS Podcast is a leading drinks industry podcast delivering frontline insights for drinks leadership.

For founders, directors, distributor MDs, and hospitality leaders navigating the tension between bottom-up reality and top-down expectations.

20+ years building brands across 30+ markets. Each episode features drinks builders: founders, distributors, commercial directors, sharing how the drinks industry actually works. Not the conference version. Honest conversations.

Insights come from sitting at the bar.

Beyond episodes: advisory for leadership teams, subscription with episode deep dives and principles to navigate your own reality.

Beer, wine, spirits, Low and non-alcoholic.

Bottom-up Insights & Episode Deep Dives at https://maffeodrinks.com

Welcome to the Maffer
Drinks Podcast. I'm

your host, Chris Maffeo. In
episode 58, I had the

honor of chatting with
Stephen Myers, founder of

Dynamic Beverage Consultant.
He

is one of the originals at
Ilegal Mezcal. We

dived into the crucial
aspects of launching a new

brand in the market and
how to avoid expensive

mistakes. I
hope you will enjoy our

chat. One
last thing. If

you enjoy this podcast, you
will also like the Maffer

Drinks guides. You
can subscribe free or paid

on MafferDrinks .com. Hey,
Steve, how are you doing?

Good,
mate. How

are you? Nice,
nice, nice. So

where are you calling from
today? Coming

from sunny Philadelphia.
Wow,

that's sunny. Okay,
that's cool. That's

cool. Yeah,
sunny Prague as well. So

it's a little bit chillier
than yesterday, but it's

still nice weather. So,
Steve, I mean, you are a

known figure in the drinks
industry from various

continents, but give us a
little bit of an intro,

like a short one minute
intro about you and what

you do and what you've
done so that our listeners

get up to speed with your
journey. Absolutely.

You can probably tell by
the accent. Born

and raised in Australia,
did the traditional sort of

university, moved into the
corporate world, and decided

pretty quickly that that
wasn't for me. Left

Australia and moved to
Central America. There

was sort of a security
route through the non

-profit world, and for some
fun stories over a cocktail

or two, ended up in
Guatemala and Antigua, which

was the old capital of
when Central America was

one country. So
I ended up running a bar

there, got to live in a
UNESCO listed town, sort of

saw volcanoes from my
bedroom window, and the guy

who owned the bar that I
worked at, John Rexha, had

this grand scheme to create
a mezcal brand. And

at the time, I thought
that was a pretty, pretty

brilliant idea. So
it was one of the

originals at Illegal mezcal.
So

2009 came around, and we
decided to bring the

product to the world. So
I moved from Guatemala to

New York City, and launched
the brand in the US, and

I think about another 14
countries. As

I did that, I realized
that there was a really

big white space for brands
wanting to do what we had

done, just not knowing the
landscape or the how to.

So
I ended up creating an

agency that helped brands
sort of navigate the coming

to market. So
you get brands, so you

might have an amazing
distiller, but they don't

know much about brand
marketing or trade

marketing, or people who
are great at advertising

and marketing and branding,
but they don't know how

supply chain works, or how
to engage or even create

their target market. So
all the things that I'd

learned in creating a
brand, I thought I could

impart that wisdom and
knowledge for other brands

wanting to do similar
things. Awesome.

So dynamic beverage
consultants, what was the

first boots on the ground
for Mr Black, when they

came to the US, and sort
of work with sort of all

brands of all sort of
shapes and sizes? Fantastic.

Fantastic. And
that's how we met on the

magic LinkedIn, where we
started understanding that

we were pretty much on the
same space and same page

on the commercialization and
building brands. And

then that's how we started
chatting, I think like two

years ago. It
was sort of, I think our

thoughts and how we
recommend people sort of do

things, we could almost
finish each other's

sentences, sort of very,
very similar thought process

and reasoning as to the
house and why. That's

great. And
then during the pandemic,

we had our weekly
appointments. We

did. Yeah.
And then, yeah, sort of

managed to find the windows
sort of away from the

respective kids. And
you're an early bird as

well. So
I remember like it was

pretty easy for me to find
a schedule for speaking to

you in Philly. Yeah,
it was great sort of the

lead time of Europe,
getting some stuff done

before the family's up and
going. It

worked fantastically.
Awesome.

Awesome. So
and hopefully soon we'll

manage to have a drink
together finally because you

are what would be good.
You're

one of my most wanted
people to have a drink

with that I've never met
in person. So

you are one of my targets.
Excellent.

We'll have to coordinate
that sooner rather than

later. Exactly.
Fantastic. So

let's dig into our chat.
Building

on what you explained about
your story and your

journey. So
you know, one of my

favorite questions to ask
is the million dollar

question, like does it
start with a brand or with

the liquids? That's
a tough one. You

obviously you need both. It
really depends on how

people end up coming to
the space or the industry.

So
marketing people have some

truly amazing ideas. And
if they can then find the

producer of the liquid,
that's great. But

then you'll also have some
amazing distillers or

blenders who come with that
sort of that knowledge and

that innate understanding of
creating something amazing.

And
then the brand follows. So

you can come from both
perspectives, but the brand

or the liquid as the
starting point both have to

be great. I'm
a big fan of the liquid

type of thing. But
there are some great brands

that started with the brand
is just that then I think

it's more difficult to get
down to the target occasion

to what is this for?
Because

I remember in my time in
S .B. Miller

that we were differentiating
brands in extrinsic brands

and intrinsic brands. So
we had some brands that

were like, for example,
Pilsner Coel was like a

very intrinsic brand. So
the story is all about the

liquid, about Pilsen, about
the first original Golden

beer, you know, the first
Pilsner in the world that

gave the name to the
category. You

know, and then if you
spoke about Peroni, Peroni

was much more about, you
know, like Italian style in

a bottle and the cool
bottle to hold in a bar

and look cool. So
it doesn't mean that this

didn't have a great liquid,
because then of course the

liquid made the difference.
But

we didn't really talk much
about the ingredients that

went into the beer. It
was just like Italy in a

bottle. Yeah,
it's almost as if if you

start with the brand, there
is the potential that it

really overshadows the
product itself. You've

got to have the stake in
the sizzle, the brand and

the liquid have to go hand
in hand. But

if you come from too much
of a brand perspective,

that will sort of often
overshadow the product

itself. And
what about the story of

the brand, you know,
because some brands, of

course, are like historical
brands that, you know, when

we work with them, we
narrate a story that's this

term that I was talking
with Julian Marsili, one of

my friends and colleague in
one of my old episodes. He

was talking about brand
archaeology, you know, that

you go and, you know, you
dig into the archives and

you look at those nice
images like the poster you

have behind you, you know,
but it's a cool, you know,

Hennessy, Sidecar, you know,
vintage poster, you know,

that you really go into
the occasion. But

then when you go into
newer brands, then there is

a new story to create, you
know. And

sometimes I feel it's very,
it could be linked to the

founder, it could be linked
to the place, it could be

linked to certain other
things. Now,

what's your take on the
risk that the storytelling,

you know, becomes a little
bit too fluffy and, you

know, it takes like a long
route rather than going

directly into the right
selling story of the brand.

Yeah,
absolutely. I

mean, sort of brands need
to, and that's especially

like spirits brands, it's
great. You

say, look, you, you
distill, you've got to

distill, you just, your
story down. Every

brand has an AVB, they
have a taste profile, they

have a need, that's apples
to apples, but brands have

got to work out what is
their unique selling

proposition, but what makes
them different? Sort

of things like you don't
lead with the category.

Say,
oh, where are tequila

called? I
guess, or where a mezcal

called illegal? We
always led with we are

illegal mezcal. You
put the name front and

center. Illegal
mezcal just happens to be

in the mezcal category, or
a rum that I'm involved

with called Palante. We
don't say we are a rum

called Palante, we say we
are Rumpalante, and you

lead with the brand. And
so rather than give the

opportunity for people to
think of other brands or

other categories from the
jump, you get the brand

front and center. And
then you have the different

layers of storytelling.
Obviously,

a staff training is very
different to a masterclass,

or when you do a
distributor presentation,

you've got to have your
talking points for that

audience. Have
the story that resonates

with them. Always
be looking forward. There's

no one else like us and
say that we are a brand

of the future. Because
like you said, with your

brand archaeology, as a new
brand, you don't have the

history that Chachous does.
Or

you don't have the history
that a Nama 'u or a

Vamoose does. So
you've got to say, look,

here's our starting point.
We

will get to that at some
point, but we are a brand

of the future. We're
not harkening back to the

past. Oh,
that's a nice way of

putting it, like a brand
of the future. I

like that. One
of the guys that I'm

following on LinkedIn and
social media, like they

talk about creating the
category of one, the

category in which you are
creating a new category,

rather than creating just a
brand. Because

if you do that, building
on what you were saying,

then you are really leading
something totally new that

people can't relate to.
Because

I feel a lot of brands,
what they do wrong is that

they go into the trap of
better, the first brand,

the faster brand, the
better brand, the tastier

brand and whatever. They
end up into a comparison

kind of situation. And
that's a very difficult one

to have. It's
about distinctiveness. It's

not about I'm a better
option for you than that

one. Then
you lead to that because

maybe that particular outlet
is focusing on certain type

of brands. So
it may be a better choice

for you at the end, but
it's not that my brand is

a better brand than what
you're currently stocking.

Brands
need to be very aware of

the language and the
verbiage they use. If

you start using those sort
of comparative terms, like

it's better, you're inviting
another brand into the

conversation straight away.
So

your audience is now
thinking not just on your

brand, but a second option.
So

you don't even want to
have that in the spectrum

of the conversation or the
presentation. And

as you said, sort of the
category of one, you're

also a category educator.
And

you just use your brand as
an example of a great

product within that
category. That's

sort of my thought on that
one. As

you sort of educate and
teach about the category,

you've obviously sort of,
here's what I prepared

earlier. And
you can use your brand as

the example when you talk
about the distillation or

the flavor profile or how
the smell and the flavor

interact with one another
for the sort of imbibing

experience. And
you use your product as

that example in the hands.
That's

cool. I
mean, sometimes I use the

example of a big geography
fan. It's

about like how you set the
scene of your brand within

the wider spectrum. That
is not necessarily the

category, but it's the
occasion where you are

trying to set and fishing
from. So

it's like, I mean, I'm
from Italy. I'm

used to see maps where
Italy is in the middle.

It's
the center of the map, and

then everything else is
elsewhere. But

then I mean, you're from
Australia, and then you

need to move the map that
you don't want to have it

like bottom right on the
screen. You

want to have Sydney or
Melbourne at the center of

it, and then you see all
the other countries around

it. So
sometimes it's also like in

the selling story, I feel,
what your brand does well

within that target occasion,
within that cocktail scene.

And
then how does it play as

a perfect choice, maybe in
between some other options,

so that you actually say,
okay, this is like the

right target for your bar
or for your bot or so,

for certain people that are
looking for XYZ. You

obviously have your
occasion, but that's not a

closed system. You
don't have that ideal

drinking occasion every time
you've got to fit with the

on -premise, with the off
-premise, with the at -home

consumer. So
you do have to have that

certain degree of
flexibility in how you

present the brand. And
sometimes it's also like,

you may think, I speak to
a lot of brand owners, and

sometimes they may think
that their occasion is one,

but then they actually end
up using another one,

because you need to test
and learn. You

go to five bars to 10
bars, and you try it. And

then all of a sudden
bartenders give you an

opportunity and say, oh,
actually, this would be a

great cocktail. And
then I'm like, oh, wow,

never thought about that,
actually. You

know, like we had this in
mind with this specific

type of cocktail or type
of occasion, but actually,

it makes sense to use it
in another one, because

it's a little bit like
funny, like when I see all

brands that I work with,
they all go for always the

same kind of, it's always
like the, like if it's

periods, they want to get
earlier into the journey,

you know, of the night,
right? You

know, if it's beer, they
want to stay longer in the

night. Yeah.
The big thing with that

is, especially for founders,
like, you're as close to

the brand and the liquid
as you can possibly get.

You
eat, you breathe, you

sleep, you wake up in the
middle of the night

thinking about it. And
sometimes you just get a

little bit too close. So
a fresh set of eyes, or

for one of a better term,
a fresh palate, can bring

a perspective that you just
not seen because you're so

busy doing so many other
things that test and learn

is really good. And
for younger, smaller brands,

you can be nimble. And
so sort of the occasion

that you had in mind may
change. So

that will then sort of
filter into the, into the

other aspects of how you
come to market. And

talking about like this
smaller brands, like the

one that I was just
starting, you know, like

the, there's always an
issue with, you know,

creating demand, no,
creating the desire of the

brand. So
how, how'd you do that?

How
you've done that in the

past? How
you do it without, without

releasing, you know, trade
secrets, what do you think

is important at least? I
have two good shoes. Good

shoes. You've
just got to, you just got

to get out there. You'll
have good days and you'll

have bad days. But
if you treat sort of each

interaction as a learning
experience, it's the, it's

the liquid on lips, right?
You

just got to get out there
and do it. You

get the feedback, you get
the wins, you get the

losses, you learn more from
your mistakes and in, in

pretty much every facet of
life. And

you'll learn that too. Sort
of as a brand, you, you

go and you, you have your,
your target accounts, but

introduce the brands to
other ones. Like,

like we just said, sort of
of the occasion, you may,

you may ultimately have the
wrong occasion. Your

target accounts may
ultimately be the wrong

one. And
sort of the market, not

that it will dictate it to
you because you have to

grab the market by the
throat and introduce your

brand and yourself, but it
may, it may have other

ideas and point the brand
into a different style of

account than what you, what
you thought it may be. And

this is very important
because I think, I remember

like, I think I mentioned
it in some other episodes

that I remember when I was
launching Peron in, in

Stockholm, for example, and
I used to live in

Stockholm. So
I thought I knew the city,

you know, and I, I had
exactly like a picture in

my mind of a street of a
neighborhood where my target

accounts would have been.
And

then when I did the
exercise, then I said,

okay, let's not be biased.
Let

the map tell me back where
is right to go. You

know, and then I, I nailed
down the type of outlets

that I wanted. And
then all of a sudden they

didn't show up in that
neighborhood that I thought

I would have found them
in. And

then I was like, shit, you
know, like I, I thought I

knew the city, but I knew
a certain type of the

city, you know, I knew my
city with my taste, with

my taste profile, what I
wanted to, to do when I

was going out at that age.
When

I put myself in the shoes
of the brand, then it was

a totally different story.
So

very often people think
they know a city, but

ultimately they know because
it's not about the best

outlets to core, you know,
it's the best outlet for

that brand in that city.
Exactly.

As much as founders sort
of are embodied in their

brand, it is a, it's its
own entity. And

so like you said, it's not
going to be the exact same

things that you did. If
you do it right, the brand

will find its home. And
it may not be exactly like

you said, the ones where
you used to go out and

eat and drink. You
mentioned before in your

intro about brands that
have a great brand, they've

got great marketing, but
they don't know how to

move commercially. Do
you find that as one of

the biggest issues that,
that small brands have in

the industry? There's
obviously more than one way

to skin a cat in coming
to market. But

you'll find oftentimes that
brands will get too focused

on the branding and the
marketing and not enough on

the supply chain because
like in the US, you have

three tiers, some of my
control states, some of

franchise states, you have
Texas, which is its own

beast DC is a totally
different entity moving

through the supply chain.
Very

rarely ever linear. And
it's never easy. Something

will always happen. And
so you just need to learn

that and you have to take
that into account in your

decision making, because the
worst thing that you will

have as a new young brand
coming to market is, is

out of stock or supply
chain issues. So

all the hard work that
you've put in in regards

to your branding and your
marketing and sort of your

account visits and your
presenting, that's all for

naught. If
the product can't be

delivered, you nail it
there because this morning

and having a meeting in a
bar, and I was talking

about a brand and then
this, this owner, like this

client, customer of mine,
he was basically telling

me, I love this brand, but
I cannot find it. Now

I managed to reorder it
after a month that I

couldn't find it. And
this is like, it can

happen for any reason from
a production perspective,

from a wholesaler
perspective, from a deep

prioritization or whatever
reason. And

I remember like, you know,
sometimes I'm working with

some smaller brands and,
and then they say like,

we've got, I don't know,
10 accounts just to throw

a number there. And
then I said, my friend

went there, order your
brand. But

they said that they didn't
have it, you know, and he,

and he was like, no, it's
not possible. They

have it. I
know it, you know, I

brought them the bottle.
And

I said, yeah, but did they
bring it up from the

seller? And
who are you talking to?

You're
talking to the manager. So

your friend is the manager
he knows, or your friend

is the owner of the bar.
He

knows that you brought that
bottle. But

does the stuff know, does
the new hire, does the bus

boy, you know, my back
even know where it is

exactly, you know, this is
the issue. It's

about all the moving parts.
No,

with Ilias, Master Yanis,
like one of the earlier

episodes, we were talking
about mastered unscalable

things. And
then you can do the

scalable things. But
I feel that people in

general, like you want to
maximize, you want to

monetize, you want to scale
things, you want to drive

economies of scale too
soon. And

you need to get your hands
dirty in stuff that you

cannot scale at the moment.
Absolutely.

And I mean, I when working
with clients, I generally

don't say no, I mean, I
do, I do tell them no

sometimes. But
a lot of my answers are

not yet, especially for
people new to the game.

The
steps they're doing are

right. But
because they've never been

down this path before,
they're for example, missing

steps 34567, they've gone
from step two to step

eight, which is correct.
But

they've just missed this
big block just because

they've they've not been
there before. And

so they don't know. I
have three things I say

all the time, it's you
build a brand by going

narrow and deep, you've got
to create strategic

relationships and
partnerships with the with

the trade with your
accounts, and you sell with

not to. And
the last one you sell with

not to harkens back to
what we were just saying

about the bottle that gets
dropped off to the bar.

Right,
that that was like a sell

to but if you sell with,
then the staff know who

you are, you've done the
staff training, you know

how your product works
within their beverage

program. And
then you can help sort of

drive people to the venue,
rather than be the person

that say, Oh, I dropped
off the bottle, why, why

aren't you selling it?
Brands

need to remember that
they're not going up

against every other product
in their category, they're

going up against everything
that goes in a glass,

right? Like
rum pelante. Yes,

we sit in the rum
category, but we go against

everything else that goes
into a cocktail or that

comes out of a beer tap
or comes out of a wine

bottle. So
there's plenty of choices

you've just got to you
just got to make your

brand sort of nice and
sticky from your strategic

partner, who's who's selling
it to the to the customer.

And
I think it I mean, on

this one is crucially
important like to really

focus on the target
occasion, because I feel

like big players, they tend
to categorize things because

they want to measure stuff.
So

they want to measure
categories. So

it's like, you know, what
is this coach category,

what's the Irish whiskey
category, what's the bourbon

category, what's the
whatever, no, rum category,

vodka category. But
then ultimately, you are

fighting cross category,
because if it's an occasion

is like I'm sitting
outside, I mean, two days

ago, it was like 28
degrees, you're in Prague,

like a couple of days of
super hot weather, tables

outside, people want to get
something refreshing, you

know, like, you're probably
not going to drink, you

know, like a very heavy
drink, you want to have

something light, refreshing
like a spritz, but it

could be a gin and tonic,
could be a light beer. So

who are you fighting, I
guess, you know, it's not

about spritz against
bitters, or X gen, gen

against other gen, you
know, it's all together,

like you say, no. So
it's really like that too

heavy and our fresh fruit
drinking experience. And

everything that falls into
that as opposed to, for

example, drinking an old
fashion in the depths of

winter, when there's two
inches of snow outside.

What
do you think the most

important thing when you
start, you know, like it's,

you know, I'm a fan of
like a city strategies,

now, but sometimes you need
to go even deeper than

than a city. But
a lot of brands, they want

to go into countries, no,
they want to go markets,

like, oh, I sell to
Sweden, I sell to Germany,

they want to go a little
bit far faster than

possible. What's
your take and what's your

approach to when you're
starting in a new market?

Yeah,
so I'm with you in that

you need to sort of focus
on cities against the

parking back to the narrow
and deep. And

you can even sort of
geotarget within that. Like

best case example is New
York, right? New

York is a state, also a
city, right? So

upstate is very different
to the five bars, Long

Island is its own, its own
beast. And

then you obviously divide
Manhattan within suburbs

within the island. I
think that what gets

measured gets done. So
the more you can break it

down, the easier it is to
attack, hit your targets

and achieve some success.
So

yes, you will, you will
tell people, ah, we're

selling in America. But
then internally, you've just

got one because you do
your testing and learning.

And
rather than reinvent the

wheel when you go to a
new state or a new city,

you have your essentially
your policies and procedures

down and how you operate.
And

then you tweak it so that
it is city specific or

country specific or state
specific, rather than have

to start from the start
every time you do it,

you've, you have your
rhythm, you know how, you

know how you best present,
you end up sort of

learning the types of
accounts that you find

initial success in and how
you knock those dominoes

down. Because
I find that when you go

from, especially sort of in
the US, so 50 states,

probably about 60 markets
all told, as you go from

city to city within a
state and then sort of

states within the country,
good analogy is a domino,

right? You
want the dominoes to knock

into the next one, but you
don't want a singular line

of dominoes, you want it
to, you want it to head

out in a triangular shape.
So

one hits two, two hits
four, four hits eight, 32

on and on. So
yes, you're building

momentum, but it's almost
like compound interest. And

that's how you develop it.
So

breaking it down, narrow
and deep, picking them off

one by one, get your
learnings, and then you,

then you replicate it in
the next one. You

as a brand can't be
everything to everyone, nor

should you be. A
lot of founders, like it's,

it's them, or it's them
and one or two others,

like there's only so much
bandwidth you have. That's

one of the hard ones is
saying no, right? You've

brought your brand to
market, you're succeeding,

like a lot of brands don't
even get to market, and

you want to be able to
say yes to everybody. So

again, rather than say, say
yes, or say no, you just

say not yet. There's
also an element of the

weak links, no? So
it's like, it's not really

like in the theory of the
six degrees of separation,

that basically social media
is based on, you know, it

all goes on to these weak
links, no? Because

we may have a strong
connection and we speak

every day and we know
everything. But

then the way the brand
grows is actually when I'm

invited to your place and
I'm speaking to your cousin

that still lives in
Australia, you know? And

then I see him once in my
life, but then maybe I

told him a sticky story.
That's

like a new dot on the map
that basically goes out to

a new country and then it
starts to spread the story

to a totally different
environment, a totally

different network that I
will never have access to.

Exactly.
You create those brand

accolades. That's
the thing that I think

needs to be done in a
better way by brands,

because it's just like,
okay, you launched in New

York and then you were
focusing in, I don't know,

West Village, you know? And
then maybe you have an

account that has another
branch in Williamsburg. And

then that's your foot in
the door into Williamsburg.

You
don't just launch into

Williamsburg after West
Village, otherwise you start

from scratch, you know? You
need to have those kind of

weak links that will bring
you to a new, it's kind

of like a Stargate, you
know? Like

it just brings you to a
new dimension, to a new

neighborhood, to a new
city, to a new state. And

that's how you work with
all these brands. And

that's, you know, you can
do it through international

chains, you can do it
through personal contacts,

you can do it through the
bartender community, because

there's a lot of bartenders
that then move to a

country or move back to
the home country or to

another country. And
then those are the people

that we're actually working
with the brands, no? We

at Illegal, back in the
day, did that particularly

well through the bar in
Guatemala. We

always had reams of bubble
wrap or paper or something.

And
people who wanted to buy

bottles to go back to
Johannesburg or Reykjavik or

Auckland or wherever they
were going, we made it

easy for them. They
said, oh, can we get it

in France? You
know, you can't because

we're not there yet, but
we've got some bubble wrap

and some bottles in the
back. And

so people, it just made
that transaction so much

easier. So
we ended up with a great

global network, even though
we weren't in any of those

countries. So
that's, you need to put

yourself in the position
for these opportunities to

happen. Because
they will, it's just a

matter of when. I
love that. I

love that. I
received requests almost on

a daily basis now, like
you have a distributor to

recommend in country XYZ, I
want to sell to this

country and so on. And
just like, I mean, you

cannot just do it from
scratch. You

need to have some hooks
and some foundations in

that market. Do
you have a relationship

with a bartender that was
living in your country, was

working in your country?
You

know, he's an ambassador of
the brand and now moved to

a new country, works in a
bar, that could be your

first bar. And
then through that person,

then maybe you can get
access to a nice wholesaler

that maybe is interested
into the same kind of

brands with the same kind
of philosophy. And

then you really build it
up bottom up, you know?

Bottom
up and those dominoes start

to fall. Exactly.
And another good thing for

brands to remember is like,
you're obviously trying to

be sticky. If
a bar says, oh, one of my

bartenders, like you said,
he's moving here, do you

know someone who's looking
for bartenders in this

city? Like,
be the, be the touchstone.

So
whenever they have an

inquiry, like it may be a
different category or it

may be a distributor or it
may be a whatever it is,

if they call you first, it
shows that you've got a

good relationship. And
then it's like, oh, Steve,

you know, yes, I will
bring his rum in. He's,

he's been super helpful.
When

he doesn't have to be,
we're all in the

hospitality industry. It's
a pretty great space to

work in. We
get to do some really cool

stuff. Success
beget success and helping

people succeed and connect
is a good thing. From

the business perspective, it
just puts your brand in a

really positive light. Yeah.
No, no, other way. People

do think of you or do
think of the brand. It's

always, it's always a good
thing. And

then if someone else asks,
then you become the brand

of recommendation. I
totally agree. And

this goes back to what you
were saying about being the

category educator, for
example, no, you know, be

the person that educates
about that category in a

different way that explain
it in a simple way, you

know, like you make it
easier for those people,

maybe it could be that one
of the barter, we always

take for granted that
everybody knows everything.

You
could be the best bartender

in the world, but maybe
you don't know about a

certain category, you know,
you may know everything

about tequila, but you
don't know about, you know,

Racia or social or you
don't know nothing about

Italian amados, you know,
so be the person that

educates those people, you
know, no matter if they

are, you know, newbies or
trademark bartenders, like

top bartenders and so on.
And

then at the same time,
building what you were

saying, create those
opportunities to create

demand for your brand, you
know, because you could

throw a party, it doesn't
have to be, you know,

world class, you know,
like, or it doesn't be

best bartender in the world
or whatever, you know, you

can throw a party on a
Monday night or a Monday

afternoon, some barbecue and
some drinks, you know, and

then you bring together
some people and then maybe

like, you know, some
bartenders will not even

show up, but then maybe
some younger bartenders will

show up. And
then there will be that

one cool legend in the
city that actually just

came to say hi for 15
minutes and then you build

that bridge and then that
bartender that is 18 on

legal drinking age country
is like, oh, wow, you

introduced me to that guy,
you know, I can't believe

it, you know, like, he's a
legend, I'm always looking

up to him and, you know,
now I've got his phone

number kind of thing and
then maybe he's recruiting

and then I can go and
work in his bar in two

years time, you know, so
you are the enabler of

this kind of conversation
connections and so on

because, you know, that
that is actually what

spreads the demands and the
the desirability of your

brand because all of a
sudden it's like, okay,

actually, I didn't really
need your category, I

didn't really need your
type of brand, but you are

close to my heart because
we are you're emotionally

connected to me. This
is what I do when I sort

of go to accounts because
you do see too many brands

just walk in and ask for
the GM or the beverage

manager, speak to the
bartenders because you never

know where they're going to
end up maybe maybe they're

going to be the beverage
manager next week, right?

So
you you have to sort of

treat everyone well, which
you should anyway, but

engage with them, the line
I often sort of say is so

other than you, who else
should I be speaking to?

And
it might be the bar back

or it might be the day
shift guy, but he's the

day shift guy here and
he's the Friday Saturday

night guy at a place that
you really want to get in.

And
then when the beverage

person or the decision
maker, whoever it is, comes

over, I usually ask if the
first person that I spoke

to can be part of it as
well. Why

present to one when you
can present to two or

three? And
it's always good for a bit

of feedback and sort of as
as an educational purpose

for them as well, whether
it's a technical or

perspective for them wanting
to learn about a product

or a category. And
it's also the opportunity

for you to get your brand
in front of someone else.

And
don't remember stuff like

that. Absolutely.
And this is this, this is

the really important thing.
I'm

a big fan of the sitting
at the bar. I

mean, if I count the hours
that I've been sitting and

at bars all around the
world, like it would be

like, you know, breaking
the clock now, but

sometimes it's really
interesting because you have

no idea what you're sitting
next to like it's maybe

he's a wholesaler, you
know, he's having a beer

with his wife at the bar
off duty for young brand,

maybe it's a potential
investor. Absolutely.

Absolutely. That's
all for today. Remember

that this is a two part
episode 58 and 59. If

you enjoyed it, I have a
small ask, please rate it,

comment and share it with
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come back next week for
more insights about building

brands from the bottom up.
One

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