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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of parenting in youth sports in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
We've gone inside the Barcelona system.
We talked about the Danish geometry of development.
We talked about parachutes.
We talked about cameras.
But this episode brings us to something much simpler.
We're puttinging our. whole reset here.
It's a ball, a player, a wall, pressure, failure, and standards.
Because before we talk about pathways and academies, recruiting, or the next level
there's a harder question sitting underneath all of it.
Does your kid actually want to do the hard work?
And that's what makes this conversation with Brian Chun and Edson
Elcock so useful.
This is not a glossy version of player development.
It's's not cones, parachutes, Instagram drills,
or pretending every kid
is on the same path.
It's about repetition, hunger, honesty,
the gap between wanting the idea of soccer and wanting
the work of soccer.
Yeah, two separate things.
Brian says something in this episode that every parent should sit with.
Sometimes the best thing a trainer can do is not
sell you another session.
It's to ask whether the player really wants to be there.
So today we're talking about the nitty gritty of development,
the tough love, what kids need to hear and do on
their own, what parents often misunderstand, what trainers
can and cannot fix, and why the simplest truths are
often the hardest ones to hear.
This is chasing the game Youth Soccer in America
The hard truth delivered.
Let's go.
Liron: Edson and Brian,
welcome to Chasing the Game.
what makes this conversation interesting
to Matt and I, and hopefully our
audience, is that you both lived
on both sides of the ecosystem.
Brian, you're inside youth
development every day.
Edson, you're on the player side,
the college, the draft, the pro game.
So before we go a little bit into
where we are today, can each one of
you walk us a little bit through how
you got here and what your road is?
Brian, let's just start with you.
Brian: I'm, originally from
Maryland from the Baltimore area.
I grew up, uh, in the
soccer system in Maryland.
Um, and then, played ODP
club soccer growing up.
Had some opportunities overseas when
I was 16, to get on some pro trials.
Um, didn't work out, so then
I went the college route.
I went to Marshall University
in, in West Virginia, and,
had a good experience there.
Um, but unfortunately, that's where
it all stopped for me as a player.
and then moved up to New York.
And then my buddy had a soccer
school, and then that's how I got
into the, side training, which
started in twenty-twenty for me.
Edson: Uh, I'm originally from Trinidad.
I moved here when I was about 10
years old, and I started playing
in a, a regular club team.
It was basically a bunch of
immigrants, a bunch of Caribbean
people, bunch of Caribbean kids.
Uh, one of the dads created the
team, and we were all playing
on the same team together.
We, we were playing Cosmopolitan.
Um, that was basically the, the top
league in New York City at the time,
or Brooklyn, or the five boroughs.
After a few years there, start doing
like guest players and stuff like that.
I moved over to Gjoa.
I played for Gjoa for about a year,
another year and a half maybe, and then
I switched over to Silver Lake, a team in
Staten Island, After playing club, I got
a scholarship to Old Dominion University.
But due to grades and stuff
like that, I had to go to
Wingate University, Division II.
Played there for a year, got my grades
up, and then eventually transferred
over to Old Dominion, and I played there
for until I was a senior, graduated.
I was fortunate enough to get, uh,
drafted in the, in the MLS draft.
uh, for me in the MLS, I didn't get--
I never played a, a game in the MLS.
I played more for the reserve team.
But that experience
alone, I learned so much.
I, I was around so many great players.
I, I was around Eddie Johnson.
um, Captain America.
Uh,
Jimmy Conrad.
those are the people that I, I like had
my first experience as a professional
to be around, so I learned a lot
behind the scenes, how those guys
approach the game and stuff like that.
I took that with me.
Uh, after I got released from Kansas
City, I ended up in Puerto Rico.
I played for the Islanders
for a year, for one season.
Uh, I scored my first two
professional goals as a Islander.
That was the most amazing feeling.
After that, I finished my career the last
five years with the Richmond Kickers.
I ended up helping them win a
USL Championship my first year.
We went back to the finals, I think
my second or third year there.
We lost to Charleston.
And yeah, I think it was about
five seasons I played there.
And after a while, it--
I don't know what it was.
I kept coming back to New York,
and I would always get to, uh...
I would always go back to Brooklyn,
and I would always go to Brooklyn
friends, and they'd always give
me an opportunity to coach.
And that was my, like,
in to, like, coaching.
I had no experience at all.
It was just using all the stuff that
I learned from these guys and my
experience at all over the place.
And I started doing stuff there, and
one season, I just said, "Yeah,
this is gonna be my last one."
And I ended up coaching
there for about five seasons.
I coached the boys varsity team there.
Fast forward, doing some individual
trainings me and Brian We just share
the same concept, the same idea of
how kids should be talked to, the
way kids should be trained, just the
idea of the sport, you know, just
how you should approach it really.
And I think we share that same, those
same dynamics and those same ideas.
So that's kinda what brought
us together, I think.
Matt: Hey Edson, thank you for that.
When you look back, what
environments really moved you
forward and what turned out to be
just noise in the system for you?
Edson: Wow.
Um, the funny thing about the noise in the
system, I think that's something that I,
realized later on.
You didn't really pay
attention to it as a kid.
Everyone's saying like, "You're so good.
You're gonna do this, you're gonna do
this." And, it wasn't until later on
you realize like, you're not that good.
There's so many other people.
By the time I got to college,
I had this thing in my head.
I was like, "Oh, you're so
good," and I, I'm playing against
people that are just as good.
I have to fight for my spot.
So, I think the club level was, um,
it was one of those... I think that's
really like the-- They try to gas you up.
You know, it's like a lot of like smoke.
I think you get a lot of cl- a lot
of smoke from the, in the club levels
because the idea, especially even
back then, the idea was to win.
You know what I mean?
It was never about developing
the player, it was about winning.
I feel like I developed
myself as a player growing up.
I didn't do individual
trainings with anyone else.
I did that stuff by myself.
You know what I mean?
I got better from just
watching certain things on TV.
I think I've learned more from
watching the game on TV from,
than from coaches as a kid.
I just picked up little nuances
Liron: Yeah.
Edson: That's just something
that I think that we both,
share, but in different ways.
Brian had the experience
kinda, that I would've loved.
He had the trials in Belgium and the
trials in Brazil and those things.
Like, when I was growing up,
I didn't really give a s***
about the MLS or the USL.
I didn't even know anything about it.
I was watching European soccer,
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Edson: know?
So for me, like,
that
was the end all be all.
You know?
If you didn't get there, then it's
like what the hell are you doing?
And my- from my mindset, it was just
like I needed, I wanted to get, I wanted
to do the things that he experienced.
I didn't get to do that, so I still
had this opportunity to take whatever
I did here and try to transfer it over
to, again, the trainings that we do.
I learned, the finishing drills that I do
with some of these kids, I learned that
from Eddie Johnson, watching Eddie Johnson
after pracrice.
I learned that stuff from him, just
watching him do it every single
training, after every single training.
And it worked for me as I got older,
Those were the type of things I
would do by myself for training.
Now, I wasn't a, an elite finisher as
Eddie Johnson was, but for me, it worked.
And coaching it, I seen it work.
So really important for, I think for both
of us, to take the things that we got
from our past and incorporate it now.
I was like, " Dude, pass the
ball from point A to point B.
Take
somebody on when you have the
chance." The game doesn't, the game
hasn't really changed that much.
The game is really
Liron: Right.
Edson: It's really simple.
Brian: So yeah, I mean, I just, I
just rode over everything that I've
learned from growing up and then just
brought it to what I'm teaching now.
Matt: Brian, when you say that
are you talking specifically
about technical aspects of the
game, tactical aspects of the
Brian: Just yeah, the technical approach.
Yeah, very-- just simple technical
training and, you know, do it with
intent, intensity, and then, and
then I can add my own twist to
it too, from guys who've I've,
um, learned f-from when I first started.
So it's a little bit mix of what
I've learned in the past and now.
Matt: I mean, the paths were so different.
And now you fast-forward, now when
you look at the different pathways
that kids have in front of them,
There's definitely more pathways.
Do you think it's more clear?
Do you think it's even
murkier in some ways?
Edson: a very harsh critic on
how the US have been-- has been
going about soccer in general.
I think there's too many.
just too many different paths, meaning
like, if this one doesn't work for
my kid, then we can go to this one.
If this one doesn't work for
my kid, we can go to this one.
It's too much jumping around to
make stuff easier for the kid.
It's like, if you don't make this team,
You know?
We have to get better.
You know?
We have to work harder, right?
I just think it makes it too easy for
kids to have this idea that, " Oh,
I'm definitely gonna make it."
Like, I remember by the time I was 15,
I wanted to become a professional, but
I had people telling me, it's like-
Yeah, there's a lot to do before you
think you could get to that point.
You know what I mean?
Like a lot of, a lot of-- Again, a lot of
the club folks were in your ear telling
you how good you are, how good you are.
I had a realistic environment
around me that was saying,
"You gotta work.
Everyone doesn't have that.
And a lot of the times I feel like if
you don't have that, then it's just
"Well, let's go find the next one.
Matt: Yeah.
Mm.
Edson: go find the next option."
It's like, I feel like you're
running away from it rather than
running to, like going to it.
Brian: Yeah, I'm seeing it the same way.
It's just too many outlets now.
It's just been watered down.
Before, it was just a little bit more
cutthroat and, you know, we had one team.
There wasn't like m--
There wasn't B, C, D teams.
Like some of these clubs these days, they
got five teams in the age group, you know?
So it's like, yeah, so
you either made the team or you
didn't, and you're either the top team
in your state, and if you're the top
team in the state, you try to go for
the top team in your region, and then
you play for a national championship.
The competitiveness, the
grittiness was just-- just more
of it back then, I feel like.
Now it's just, I, I don't even-- I can't
even keep track of all the leagues and,
and stuff that, that's going on now,
Liron: Edson, you said the word
simple, and Brian, you and I have
spoken before many times, you were
talking about playing with both feet,
simple stuff, passing, receiving,
one v. one, being sharp on your feet.
Very simple stuff.
Let's unpack that a little bit.
I mean, do you think that, that
this kind of simple training is
lost today in modern youth soccer?
Brian: I scroll on Instagram and, you
know, the algorithm shows all these
other trainers and yeah, I don't see
much of the simple stuff, to be honest.
And every time, like at training, like
these kids are trying to shoot, I'm
just like, "Stop shooting, just pass.
You know, you gotta get to the goal first.
Just do one touch passing.
That's all you need to do." You know?
These parents ask me, "Oh, how
did my kid get better?" Dude,
he needs to train on his own.
Okay?
All he needs is a ball, really.
Have some imagination.
You don't even really need cones.
Put out some shoes, you
know, just work on both feet.
You know, passing against a wall, just
repetition, just the simple stuff.
I don't really see much
of that these days,
Matt: I feel like if you go to a training
session, whether it's in Brooklyn, Queens,
anywhere, anywhere in the Tri-State or
anywhere in this country, and to a certain
degree throughout the world now, most
of the sessions look fairly similar.
You're gonna see discs all over the place.
You're gonna see kids in pinnies.
You're gonna see one or
two coaches organizing it.
And by the way, I'm not saying
that there's not great coaches.
I'm not saying there's not great
training sessions, and there's not a
lot of ton of thought that goes into it.
It just seems like it's a lot of
the same from what I see here,
what we discover, more people we
talk to in different locations too.
Edson: I see it.
All these guys are being taught
the same stuff from a book.
From a book.
Matt: Yeah.
Edson: Not experience, not like
what I went through, not...
From a book.
That's not creativity.
We're you're-- It's like, almost
like you're trying to train robots.
You're trying to create robots.
The fact that you just said that almost
every single session that you you can
go to would literally look the same.
that's a lack of creativity.'
Liron: the coaches themselves, and then
of course that translates to the kids.
Edson: Absolutely.
Absolutely.
We have to teach structure,
Matt: Of course
Edson: right?
But when the entire session is structure,
where's the creativity coming from?
That's why it's so frustrating at
times when we, myself and Brian,
we do these we have the sessions
in the summers, and we're
like, "Go at them Take 'em on.
Take 'em on."
They're so used to taking on cones.
They're being taught to take
on cones rather than players.
That's not a good thing.
Liron: Yeah.
I mean, Brian you, you said to me a couple
times, uh, you used the word robotic.
You said that, you feel that a lot of
the kids that come through your program,
there's a, a robotic quality to them.
I mean, is that part of what
we're talking about here?
Brian: Yeah, it's synchronized
way of playing the game.
You know, it's like just they're
training with all these cones
there's pressure, they don't
know what the hell to do
Matt: Hmm
Brian: the cones look good, but then
add some pressure, and add pressure
in tight space and see how they
do, right?
Edson: It's everything is scripted,
and then when it gets to the point
when you have to use this outside of
the box, they don't know how to step
outside of the box because they've only
read these lines for so many times.
They're only reading these lines.
They're reading the script.
Get out of the box.
Be creative.
Matt: heard something a few weeks ago
from a coach who I have a ton of respect
for, who mentioned to me that you can
see the kids who are over-training
by how they actually walk and stand.
He's like, "There's kids who are,
like, almost crouched over," And then
even when they're dribbling, they're
so crouched over the ball because
they're so used to working in and
out of cones that they don't even
almost know how to be upright, right?
uh, so I've kind of started to
pay attention to it a little bit
when I walk past a park or if
I'm at one of my kids' games, and
it's kind of interesting, right?
Brian: And then what happens
when you're crouched down,
your vision goes to the ground.
Matt: yeah.
Edson: can't see anything
Brian: so again, yeah.
Edson: just be out there
by yourself, right?
Brian: And that's the thing I
see in these kids a lot is their
head, their heads are down, right?
So they struggle with decision-making.
Matt: But you can't miss
a, you can't miss a disc.
Brian: Yeah, as you know, you gotta
make sure you get all of them.
Y eah, the training's gotta
be realistic, you know?
And it could be simple and realistic
and effective, and I just try to
put all those things together.
And I think we all agree that just
playing is the best development.
You know?
You don't need, You don't have
cones when you're playing.
You got pressure.
It's realistic.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Edson: Just run around.
Brian: And use your
imagination, like Edson said.
Growing up, I didn't have
training or anything.
I just played and I watched soccer,
and I tried the stuff that I saw on TV.
And a lot of these kid- a lot of these
kids that I see doing these skills and
I'm like, "Where did you learn that?"
They're like, "FIFA Street,
the video game." I'm like,
like, great.
Well, th- you know, the good.
that?"
was free, right?
I told him, "That, that was free,"
Edson: We know.
Brian: learned that and he
Edson: get
Brian: it.
And same thing with playing So yeah, you
know, the natural way of, just watching
and trying what you tr- trying, what
you see on, on TV and just trying it
and then trying it in your backyard
with friends and then in practice.
It's just still a way to develop.
I think that's still
the best way to develop
Matt: Yeah.
Edson: We can't get away from the
fact that we obviously grew up in
a totally different time, right?
less distractions.
Your parents were sending you outside
to go do stuff even if you don't
have friends, you go make friends.
You know what I mean?
So you had to be outside,
you had to go play.
But for me, the one thing I do remember
as a kid was even when it was raining,
I would be inside of my apartment or
the house when we Trinidad, and I would
just be dribbling around with a little
ball or anything that was around,
and I would be I'd be
kicking the hell out of it.
But for me, the thing is, our kids,
they've lost that kind of creativity.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Edson: Just like I said, like
that thinking outside of the box.
I don't have anything to do inside.
What can I do?
I'm gonna go play.
I can
still play.
Matt: you know, Edson, you just
mentioned something about creativity.
I think there are certain environments,
certain clubs nationally, locally,
where you can go and see kids at
10, 11, 12 super creative, right?
And there's not all of them, but there's
a, there's a, there is a good number, more
than I would say we give credit towards.
But for some reason, when you look at
that same kid at, as a U19 player or
a U18 player, that creativity seems
to get squeezed out of them somehow.
And if you look at what we're producing on
the global scale, in the global market and
coming from within the US, we still seem
like we're lacking these creative players.
But I mean, I was walking past Brooklyn
Bridge Park this weekend and saw,
I think it was NYCFC's 2015 team.
There was a lot of
creativity on the pitch.
I mean, it, it, it was incredible.
But then what happens
when you get to U17, U19?
Like, why are these kids losing some
of that creative flow to their game?
Edson: I think it kind of goes
back to the the coaching styles.
concentrate more on team style of play,
playing out of the back, the new modern
way of and kids get suffocated that way.
Now they are restricted to
only two touches and three
touches practice session.
again, if you go across the world,
they're not being coached like Kids
are not being coached like that.
They're being coached to
perform, to change games.
They're being, they're being
made to be game changers.
Matt: It's such a great
Edson: being coached.
Matt: nobody's talked to-- used
Liron: it's
Matt: it's such a great way to look at it,
right?
It's
Liron: very different than e verything
we've heard so far, and it's amazing.
I love that idea of just
simple soccer, right?
Brian, um, You talked to me before, you
said that you wish you had kind of an
older brother or a mentor that could
guide you through your career, and I
think this will be very important for
uh, parents who are listening to this.
Can you explain what you meant by that,
Brian: Yeah, I mean, I had a mentor,
but not someone who I could really,
call up whenever I wanted when I
was, when my career was down and I
needed, that, that voice to get me
motivated again and to keep, working.
It's just I didn't have
much of it back then.
A lot of it was just my friends.
I didn't have that older figure.
I wish I had an older brother who,
went through the experience, the soccer
experience, and, have gone through it and
would help give me, those tips to, to just
stay with it and to keep working.
now there's so many resources that,
you know, and so many training
programs that you could find
them a lot easier than back then.
All these programs the coaches
are mentors to these kids.
you could find just clips of motivational
clips on Instagram to, to help you, you
know, maybe change that light
bulb in your head when, you
know, things aren't going well.
Matt: The difference is kids
today think that see one reel
about the Mamba Mentality and they
Edson: Instant.
Matt: have it.
It's magic.
Yeah.
Brian: exactly.
So I had to figure it by myself, you know.
It wasn't easy.
But I wish I had that person who I
could call and, and to, you know, help
me when times weren't going going well
Matt: how much of development
gets misunderstood because
people focus so much on technical
ability or tactical understanding
and not enough on the guidance?
Like when to push, when to wait, when to
change environments, when to stick it out,
like how serious you actually need to be,
or like how do you weigh those things?
Edson: I mean, the thing about f- the
thing for me about development is You
don't ever stop really developing, right?
It's learning.
Developing is learning.
So...
and
what better way to get better than
learning the simplest way to do
something, get better and better at
that I always tell kids, when You're
never shooting, you're finishing,
Right?
You're
trying to get the ball in the goal.
The idea of shooting is hitting
the ball as hard as possible.
Everybody could hit the
ball as hard as possible.
When you're finishing, you have
mastered the art or the way of passing
the ball the ball into the goal.
Developing different ways of passing
the ball, different weight of the pass,
different weight of the ball, the way
that the ball comes off of the grass,
the spin off of How do you hit it?
If you have that in a kid's
head from the earliest,
you don't have to keep
telling them how to develop.
That's already there.
Now developing is understanding the way
that a-- like I said, the way that a ball
skips off of the grass, just watching it
in the air and you know that it's gonna
skip off of the grass before you hit it.
So you know when and
how you should hit it.
That to me is developing.
think the earlier we have
th-that mentality into kids.
the easier it's gonna be
for them to get better.
Matt: you think with all the resources
that's, that are going into youth
soccer, you still think that's missing?
you guys work with a lot of kids,
so you, I mean, you've, you have,
you've really good perspective on it,
Edson: I think
that's a big thing that's
still missing, yeah.
I personally think so,
Liron: It's almost reading,
reading, what's coming, without
like the unexpected, right?
the idea of the ball and the
grass is a perfect example because
it's... You can't teach that.
That's something that you have to
see it and experience it a thousand
times to know how a ball is gonna come
and hit a certain way on the grass.
yeah.
No, I get it.
But so you were talking before
about this idea of communicating
with the kids early enough, because
in your days it was pretty cutthroat.
Like, you knew at a certain stage
if you could progress or not, do
you think we're telling the kids
the truth early enough These days?
And if we're not, what would be like
a compounding error that a kid would
keep on making if they didn't realize
where they stood in the pyramid?
Brian: These are some good questions, man.
I'm not gonna lie
Liron: Yeah, of course.
This is a professional podcast, man.
This is, uh
Edson: I don't think we're
being honest enough with kids,
if you ask me personally.
Again, I can't speak for everyone, but
the overall consensus that I'm receiving
and what I'm seeing is that sometimes
we're a little too-- we sugarcoat things a
Brian: Yeah, if they're, if they're coming
to me, I'm gonna tell them straight up.
Edson: And that's the
thing, I feel like-- And
that's the thing, I think, and
there's no consistency there, right?
If you're getting it from
myself and Brian, and you're
not getting it from your coach.
Like, there,
are instances that we had kids whose
coaches were not being honest with them
in terms of why they are not playing.
Tell me why I'm not playing.
I wanna get better.
I wanna play.
If you're not tell-- you're not
telling me why I'm not getting
better, then what are we doing?
At some point, you're gonna have to
understand, your coach is your coach.
And my player is my player.
I have to be as honest with my
player for them to be better.
If I am sugarcoating stuff and I'm
not telling them how to get better or
what, why I don't think that they're
playing or what I, what I'm not seeing
from them on a consistent basis,
then I'm not coaching them.
Brian: Yeah, what are we doing then?
Edson: I'm not .Coaching.
you.
And that's what I mean about this
whole idea of everything's scripted.
Coaches have to understand
you're dealing with human beings.
Liron: So, so le-let's take it
one more step because, uh, I know
you, you think that Matt and I
are great coaches, but we're not.
We're parents.
Brian, you, you, you see
these parents all the time.
Do the parents make the same mistake where
they sugarcoat something or misunderstand
where their kid really stands?
And if so, what happens if a parent
is, in your opinion, not honest
with, with the kid along the way.
Brian: If the, if the parent is not honest
with the kid right away, then they're
kind of setting them up for failure,
really.
I feel like when I'm training a kid
and their parent is sugarcoating
everything and they come to
me and I'm doing the opposite,
but then when they go back home,
they're getting the sugarcoating
again, he's not gonna change,
right?
So
Liron: you see that, right?
I mean, you-- I'm sure
Brian: you've
Liron: see that many times.
Brian: Yeah, I see it.
So-- And mentality is, the
biggest part of soccer and sports.
So it's like they want
him to be more aggressive.
They want him to be resilient.
Well, you got to be a little bit
hard on him, I would, I would think.
He can't have everything handed to him.
Um,
kids have so many resources
now that they could do their
own film, sessions, you know?
Um,
just they need to utilize
all the stuff that they have.
I these kids could-- A lot of them could
be really great players if they just
gotta put their mind to it, really.
if they're obsessed, gotta be obsessed.
Edson: the, that's the
other part about it.
I don't think it's something
that you can teach.
You can't teach an obsession, No.
It's just like, it's something that's
either in you or it's not, you know?
So
that's the toughest part I think about
this new group of kids that are coming up,
funny because I would've been
the complete opposite, obviously.
I'm saying, I wanna watch myself
one, on TV, and I wanna see all the
things that I need to get better at.
I don't think that-- I think
it's important that they do see
what they do
on, on, on video and stuff like
that, but I think it's even more
important to have that in your
head when those moments happen.
Is I'm-- I always tell kids, and Brian
says it too, is it's like football's
it's a short-term memory game, right?
Especially when you make a mistake.
You always wanna put that memory to the
side, but you never forget about it.
It's something that you should
revisit once the game is over.
I-- Till this day, we play on
Thursdays, I go home and I think
about the mistakes that I made, all
the terrible passes that I made, all
the bad, all the, the wide
open goals that I missed.
I, I still have nightmares about those
Liron: Edson, we have so much in common.
I mean, this is kinda how I spend
my-- all my evenings, just
thinking of all the mistakes I made
Edson: it's just like, it's a le-
like Brian says, a level of, uh,
like it's an obsession, I don't
know if you can, like, teach it.
Liron: But, But Brian, I mean, this is
why I'm, I'm pushing back 'cause you
guys, Brian and Edson your, your trademark
as trainers, legendary trainers in the
area, is that you're tough on the kids.
I mean,
Brian: Tough love.
Tough love.
Liron: Well- Okay.
Well, I mean, where is that coming from?
I mean, are you trying to
set a correction course?
Is it important for you that
a kid knows the truth of where
they are when they come to you?
Or it's a unique style that you have
Brian: Yeah, I'm just teaching
them standards, I think is
normal, especially for a coach.
I mean, coaches are teachers too.
Um,
Edson: My my thing is, if they--
if everyone has this idea that they
wanna get to this level, right?
I always revert back to the earlier the
kids learn how to deal with failure,
the better everything's gonna be.
Because when you eventually get to
this point or the time that it takes
to get to this point for some people,
you're
gonna be dealing with a lot of failure.
You're gonna be dealing with
a lot of people that are gonna
tell you the harsh truth.
If you
can't deal with the hard truth
from your coach, I... I want my
coaches to tell me the truth.
Tell me the truth so when
I get out there, I'm good.
I'm good.
Everything else rolls off of my back.
If I can take it from the person that
I trust the most in this game, who
should be my, who should be my coach,
doesn't matter what anyone else says,
doesn't matter what anyone, what else
criticizes me about what I'm doing.
If I can take that criticism from
my coach or if I can take that
constructive criticism from my coach
then regular criticism, it is what it is.
' Cause I feel like constructive
criticism could be sometimes
one of the toughest things to
Matt: if you're running a a, a team
training session, and you've got
20 kids or 21 kids there, right?
Which is fairly normal
for MLS next level teams.
When is the coach providing
that feedback, right?
And how frequently do you think kids
are getting that honest feedback
or have that type of rapport with
their coaches from what you guys
see in the conversations have?
I think it's really hard for the coaches.
I really do.
Like, You have that many kids
Edson: You have a lot to deal with, yeah.
Matt: have a lot to deal with.
You're on and off the field in 90 minutes.
You know, the next team's coming on.
Uh, it seems like this is not
just a New York City thing.
I mean, I think in any major
metropolitan area, fields, logistics,
time, everything's scrunched, right?
And then theref- then you run into these
challenges where the kids don't have
clarity, the parents don't have clarity.
They're looking for other sources to help
their kids build their technical ability
and their confidence, and it's like this
big hamster wheel that we're all on.
What do you guys see?
I mean, do you think these kids
are getting what they need?
Or how do, how can they get... How
do you ask a coach or how do you ask
a trainer Where is my kid, right?
Or where can I be better specifically?
Brian: I think the
kid has to go up to the coach
And ask him.
And if not, I feel like the coaches would
talk to whatever player that he thinks
is struggling and, and trying to talk to
him to build him back-- himself back up.
I think maybe they might pick and
choose or, you know, talking to the pl--
whatever player that approaches them.
I would never deny a player
that, wants to talk to me.
I would always be there to talk
to the player and I would just
tell them, my line is always open.
You could always, be comfortable
to reach out to me in whatever
situation you're dealing with.
I just feel like communication is key.
The part of being a coach is
managing personalities, right?
So that's part of your job, whether
it's before training, after training.
But I'm not saying after training
or before training every player,
you go up to them, give them a view.
No.
Maybe you see a player that was doing
good and now he's falling off, and
you pull him aside or something,
right?
Matt: Brian you've made a
choice to develop players on a
one-on-one or small group basis.
Why don't you wanna coach
a team, your own team?
Or maybe you do.
Liron: Think, Um,
Brian: nah, I j- I've just seen it from
afar and I just like, what I'm doing
now, my own curriculum, my own style
I don't have to report to a director
and do what he's telling me to do.
Maybe he wants me to run
sessions a certain way.
Um, and I just like what I'm doing
'cause it's more of a intimate,
it's more close-knit, so I have a
better relationship with my clients.
And I think it's more helpful for
them when it's in that situation.
For the club-- And also I don't wanna
deal with a bunch of nagging parents too.
bullshit Let's,
be honest first.
Matt: thre is no coach in
Brian: You know, and...
Matt: the country that gets paid
enough to listen to nagging parents.
Brian: Just another headache
that I have to deal with.
I still kinda deal with it just even
in the, you know, small group training.
But, I feel like I can
still provide just as much input
in, in, into these kids', uh, lives,
whether I'm coaching a, a team
or just doing what I'm doing too.
Matt: How often do you see kids plateau?
You've worked with them for a couple
of years, they're in a good team
environment, and then you just see them
plateau, whether that's physically they
haven't grown or they've grown a lot and
then they can't, their coordination is
missing, or the next level of the game,
it maybe it's becomes too fast for them.
Edson: I remember I had one-- There's
a guy that we played with in the
Cosmopolitan fantastic, lightning
quick, athletic, and there were-- It
was just a time where, like you said,
the game caught up to him
and everyone else caught up.
And this is where I revert back to
everyone telling you you're
so good, you're so good, you're so good,"
but not really doing anything about it.
You were stagnant the entire time,
and then eventually you just became
stagnant with everyone else, or
everyone else just passed So the
plateau thing, because everyone
goes through ups and downs You can,
you can go through-- You can just
find a different way of playing,
a different style of playing or a
different way of playing the game.
You just have to find your niche.
You just have to find
your way on the field.
But I don't think... I think
that, that plateau part is more
like, it's more a mental like,
I said, everyone else caught
up and Do I just suck now or
do-- can I just get better?
I think you have the choice
of going through that.
I think it just depends on who you are
as a person, what you've been taught.
Liron: Right.
You gotta find in you, you gotta find
that thing that makes you specia.
Edson: That's it, man.
Brian: Yeah, I think that plateau
part, I feel like within the-- in
y outh soccer, that sweet age of 14
to 16 range is when I see a plateau,
I think it's more...
Matt: passion or the
interest or the recognition
Edson: right?
Yeah, there is a lot of
distractions in that time
Matt: Yeah.
I mean, I can speak for
Liron, he was definitely very
Liron: lot I'm still disctracted
very distracted.
I'm still distracted.
I,
I, The longest plateau
in history of soccer
Endless
plateau
Brian: It's either-- It's not more I've
seen them plateau technically, it's
just, they just the passion for the game.
Or they're in a wrong club situation
and, the, it's not in their favor
with their with their relationship
with the coach, and then that just,
kills their de-determination
to keep wanting to play, so...
Liron: But you, you-- That's, that's a
key of what you just said, the wrong club
situation would be the wrong environment.
Like, how can, in your-- both of
your opinions, a parent recognize if
a kid is in the wrong environment?
Brian: If he's performing in training
and he's not playing in games.
Matt: But I think the-- But, but Edison,
you asked that question, which I think
is the right question, and I think that
there's a lot of people, even people
who know the game pretty well, it's
hard to see Unless you are, you guys or-
or other coaches- Yeah
who
can
Edson: funny as, it's
Matt: pull it apart
Edson: it, as I said it, I realized
how broad of a question it was because
it's just, like there's so many
different nuances to that question.
But,
uh, like Brian said, I mean,
If a kid is
performing in training, and that's
across the board and once you get...
Once you're a kid, once you're a
professional, if you're performing
in training and you don't feel like
you're getting the fair share on the
field when it comes to game time.
The only tough part about that is who's
making that determination as to how
good he's being in training, right?
Is that his parents saying, "Oh
man, he's been amazing in gym
training," or is that like other...
The other coaches are saying like,
"Listen, this kid's been phenomenal in
training, but I don't know why his head
coach is That's a totally different
situation.
Liron: that second scenario I never
heard of, but it's the first one that
is the most likely, you or a parent or
Edson: Or someone-- Yeah.
Liron: wow, he's doing great.
Edson: he's doing so well, it's like,
but the guy that really makes the
decisions clearly doesn't think that
or there's another reason.
Brian: so it's hard for me because
when a parent comes to me and is like
exactly what I just said, playing good
at training but not playing games.
I don't know because I'm not there.
Matt: I think of this, I mean, this is
really from a parent perspective, because
Things ebb and flow in your kid's life.
You know, they have a passion
about this, and that's their
passion for a year or two years,
It, it's more when they're,
when they're younger, right?
And then, and then as they get older,
there's less of those things and,
like, there's consistent thing that
throughout their childhood, whether
it's soccer or something else.
I think from my point of view, I've
always looked at it like, you know,
there's moments where I see a, a burning
desire or a passion, and then I don't
necessarily see it in certain situations.
But I don't wanna put the flame
out because I think the flame may
reignite itself in one of these other
phases not just related to soccer.
Really could be related to, like,
wanting to learn in school, right?
Or whatever it may be.
It's, like, such a delicate balance.
Like, you wanna be honest, and I'm
definitely honest, but at the same time,
you don't wanna shut something down
because you want them to eventually
find whatever that passion is.
Edson: For me, and the, and the
number one thing about everything
that I'm saying, I am not a parent.
You guys have to deal with
that other side of it, right?
We can only talk about the football
side You see the other side of
it, like what you just mentioned.
You see a b- you see a desire
in, at times with soccer, right?
We see it whenever-- We either see it on
the soccer field or we don't see it at
all because we don't see you guys have
so much to deal with, and it's a really
fine line in terms of like, how much do
I push my kid and how much do I not push
Brian: I
mean, I've seen some kids, yeah, lose,
because there's too much pressure on them.
And that's where I come in, right?
To reignite that flame that
Matt was talking about.
if I see someone that
has lost a little bit of confidence,
I'm the first one to pull them
over to talk to them and, And
keeping an eye on them, um, just to
make sure, you know, that they're
heading on the right path.
And that's why
me, you know, me and Edson are
doing what we're doing is because
it's just more than football.
We're teaching these kids life
Edson: When he's still doing the
session, I'll pick, I'll pick one kid
aside and be like, "Listen, I get it.
You're missing all your passes.
It is what it is.
We're here to make mistakes.
Let's keep going."
It's all about reading the
room and finding that fire.
Matt: And, you know, that's all, it seems
so simple, but that's all they probab-
that, that's, that's all that kid probably
needed though in that moment, right?
And then they, they, you know,
they, they put it behind them.
They recognize that everybody, they,
the coaches have seen it too, and
then they readjust, and then the
focus in their performance changes.
It's not a lot, but it's very nuanced,
Edson: and that's it.
Matt: matters.
Edson: And that's it.
Brian: that's-- And I just feel like
a lot of club coaches don't do that.
And it's just, to me, I think it's simple,
Edson: You do it when it happens.
There's nothing wrong.
You're not calling anyone out.
I'm just letting you know.
Or you can even do it, let the session
continue and just, again, pull that
player aside for a good-- a minute.
it's not a lot of words.
Listen, I saw what we did,
let's fix it.
Just concentrate on what we gotta do.
Next pass, let's go.
Sometimes kids need to be told and
Brian: Reassured, yeah.
Edson: this is a short-term memory game.
We
all mess up.
Matt: I think that's probably been one
of my biggest learnings as a parent
to youth athletes, which is it's all,
it's, it's so much about the confidence.
And I think I even struggle to understand
how to find, how to identify it early on,
and now I can see when my kids are playing
with confidence, and they feel like they
can make mistakes versus if they make
a mistake, they're gonna get pulled, or
they may not get rostered or whatever,
whatever the situation is, right?
now it's very easy for me to be able
to see when kids are playing with
confidence and when they're not, and when
that's been instilled in them, right?
Like when to take a guy one-on 1v1 or
when to, you know, when to get off the
ball and recycle or whatever it is as
opposed to playing So systematically,
which in a lot of ways I think
just kills the confidence, right?
Edson: Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Absolutely, man.
It's very difficult to
adjust in that situation
Liron: you guys, Brian, especially,
you don't have a big social media
presence as far as supplementary
training that you guys do.
I mean, Matt and I now in the life
of the pod have seen trainers, we
joke with parachutes and equipment
and 100,000 here and 200,000 viewers
there, and a lot of clips and yelling.
And training with you guys always
felt like you were, you're going to
like some underground club and you
knew the bouncer and they let you
in, and something would, you know.
And it wasn't the nicest guy at the
door, and the place was kinda creaky and
it was leaky, but it was like, man, the
Edson: Old school New York clubbing.
Liron: But ...the
DJ was
amazing.
Matt: is still scarred-
Liron: Yeah ... uh, uh,
Matt: outside the velvet rope all
Liron: pretty much.
Pretty much.
I, I-- The way I interpret it is that
you see supplementary training or soccer,
especially here as a business, too
much like a theater or a performance.
Is that right?
Brian: I didnt sign up for that
I'm just here for the, kids.
I'm here to get them better and, and
that's it, and that's how I grew up
And that's what I'm taking on, rolling
over to now and just, it's just not me.
That's just not how I wanna go about it.
I don't wanna be worrying about
setting up tripods and getting
the right angles and stuff.
The kids are already distracted
as it is, so that's just gonna
add more distraction, you know?
I don't need, that reassurance from
people on social media to know,
That the, the, the
proof is in the pudding.
I mean, if I'm trying to be
an influencer, sure, yeah.
Liron: tell you one thing, this
podcast won't help you be that.
That's, that's a
Edson: Perfect.
The kids already have-- Like Brian
said, the kids are already s- there's
so many things going on in their
heads, they're already so distracted.
The last thing I wanna do is put a camera
on them to be like, "Okay, now go."
Liron: Yeah.
You know, I've just-- I've been, I've been
through my, my series of supplementary
trainers through the years, and, uh, Brian
and Edson, you know my son really well.
I remember when I didn't know you, but
we were... Somebody at MetOval years
ago, Lavie was just starting, and he was
a goalie, needed some footwork, blah,
blah, blah, So Sarit, my wife, took Lavie
to you, and the session was over, and I
think Lavie was miserable or whatever.
And then Sarit came to you and said,
"Okay, let's, uh... I wanna book the
next session." And you told her, "No.
You have to ask your son if he wants
to be here at the next sesscion.
drop the mic.
Edson: if they don't wanna be
there, then what's the point?
we're wasting time.
Brian: Yeah, and it, it's, you
know, so I'm not... And obviously
I don't take it personal if the kid
doesn't wanna train with me, but,
you know, there's only a certain type
of
player that wants to train
with me consistently.
Um- And then some players don't like
that tough love environment and style.
But that's-- I feel like that's the best
way to get these kids better, not only
in soccer, but, you know, to prepare
them for life that's what I'm here for.
So I don't care about
the cameras or anything.
My joy is reading those texts from
parents that, you know, thanking me
because their son is getting better.
He did this weekend.
Thank you.
That's what I thrive off of.
Liron: I can, I can personally vouch
for the major change uh, my son's
life I wanna thank you, both for it.
I hope many of our listeners will,
those who are close by, will get
to, uh, experience some of it.
Just don't make too many kids cry,
Matt: come on....
Edson: that's gonna be
the quote under our card.
Brian: mean, we are training
in Brooklyn, you know.
You like, these kids
gotta have tough skin,
uh, if anything, they'll
thank me when they're older.
Edson: If not yeah, if not now, later.
Wow.
Wow.
You actually are letting me do the first sentence in the outro.
One of the biggest takeaways from this conversation is that development
can't be outsourced.
A trainer can guide it and a coach, and shape it.
A parent can support it.
But the player has to own it.
Yeah, and I keep coming back to what Brian said
about his own journey, that what he needed wasn't just another authority. figure.
It was an older brother type of mentor.
Someone who had been through it, it could tell him the truth before
he made the same mistakes.
That's really the heart of the episode, because, yes, the conversation
is about training, but it's also about guidance,
honesty, timing, and learning how to ask better questions as parents
Not can my kid go pro,
not what team should we chase next?
But are they building the habits?
Are they learning the game?
Are they developing the mentality?
And do they want it when nobody is watching?
This is a huge thanks to Colach Brian Chan and Etin Elcock
We're bringing this honesty, the experience, and the simplicity back
into this conversation.
And contrary to what Brian and Edson may
want us to believe, you can you can still reach them on Instagram and you should.
At football Trainer Chun and at skills School
Soccer in Brian style, very complicated,
but you'll see it on our info and description.
So there is an Instagram account, just no shortcuts.
Yeah, no shortcuts.
Exactly.
But apparently you can DM.
If this episode made you think differently about training, pressure,
or your role as a soccer parent, share it with another family
trying to navigate the same questions.
This is Chasing the Game, Youth Soccer in America.
Simple