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Podcast by a Panhandle Surf Angler for all anglers of any level. We will talk weekly to guests that are anglers and also industry professionals. I want you to walk away from this podcast with some knowledge either refreshed or new for you to become a better angler. Though it will start in the Panhandle of Florida, it will be around the entire United States so we can all learn something about fishing in different regions.
Speaker 1 (00:00:00):
This episode of Finding Demo Surf Fishing is being brought to you by Ninja Tackle. Head on over ninja tackle va.com and look at all the amazing, great and cool tools that they have going on there up in Virginia. I love Mat Shop. You guys know this. You've seen, uh, any of my social media. You've always seen me using Ninja Tackle Rods. I love mine. Uh, I have zero problems with 'em. I've got two seven footers that I absolutely love for the beach and inshore kayak, all of it. Such a great set of rods. The travel rod, it's so fun. Can take it anywhere. It breaks down very nicely into a travel case all the way up to my eight, six, hey, slinging lures from the beach. Loving it. Nine footer. I can do that too. Sometimes I use it for sets up to my 12. And hey, I think there's even a bigger one coming. You'll have to take a look at the website though, if you need reels, rigs, whole bunch of stuff like that. Lot's in there. Bait. Hey, yeah, he's got it. If you're into firearm and firearm accessories. Ninja Tactical. Yep. Whole nother side of that great website. If, uh, you need an optic or something like that, and maybe you need a couple of pieces for an ar, hey, he might have 'em. So Ninja Tactical still in line there. Great stuff. Ninja tackle va.com. Go take a look. You won't be sorry.
Speaker 1 (00:01:29):
Hi, yes, new week, new episode. Well, actually it's a continuation episode, episode. So yeah, as as I said in the last week, uh, Ben and I had a weird technical difficulty there and, uh, the episode was great, but it was just flowing so good of information and I was loving every minute of it. But, uh, yeah, kind of got cut off, so we had to go reschedule to finish the up the episode. And when we did the episode, uh, there to finish up, that last section actually ended up turning into an episode in itself. Lots more information, lots more information, uh, lot knowledge really that was just dropped. So really fun to continue on with that. And, uh, because it lasted so long, I couldn't put it in the first episode. I couldn't ask you guys to hang out for that long. So gave you a secondary on here for you to take a look at and enjoy. And hey, I, I think you're gonna find a lot of really good information from it and I hope you really do. So without further ado, let's get back into the show. It's gonna be a good one. Well, this has been fun. I mean, I'm having a great time here. And let, let's get into the fun part of guess the ending when it comes to being a guide. What has been some valuable lessons learned after starting and running your charter business?
Speaker 2 (00:02:35):
Um, I'd say one of the most valuable things is to just have multiple skills in my skillset in my locker that I can wheel out at any point. So, you know, obviously surf fishing, you are pitching up somewhere within, maybe you might be able to cover a few miles of beach, but you need to be fairly certain that you're gonna catch something on that stretched beach. And so having a number of tactics in your locker to be able to approach that is definitely something I've developed. And I mean, you know, we all have to start somewhere. And when I started guiding here, I was just very focused on leopard sharks and I was really, really good at that. I got pretty good at that pretty fast and was able to help lots of people catch their fish. But you know, you get to the winter and you think, well that was fun summer, what, what we gonna do in the winter now?
Speaker 2 (00:03:11):
So you, you think, well, okay, I'm gonna develop my surf perch fishing program. And so that's definitely something bit, something I've had to be conscious of is constantly developing new skills and new kind of tactics to help my clients catch fish. And you know, every, every every week I learn something new and every week I add a little, a little tweak or a little skill set to that, to that roster. And that means that when I go to mo fishing with my clients, and maybe you're in a less than perfect situation, I dunno, maybe there's a lot of current or you have to deal with something that would otherwise be quite difficult, but 'cause you've got a bit of experience and maybe a bit of knowledge and you can think, okay, well I've, I know if I do this, that that's gonna fix that problem.
Speaker 2 (00:03:45):
So having a number of solutions to those problems, um, most of which involve how to catch a fish right now, um, would be highly, highly, very, very useful being a guide. Um, so I think that's probably the main thing is just making sure I can actually really catch my clients as many fish as possible. But doing so requires having a number of skills and that might be everything from just learning how to use a tiny, tiny hook, um, in the middle of winter to catch 20 surf patch for your very junior clients ride up to um, you know, dealing with some of the light lines stuff up to the heavy shark stuff. So having a number of skills in your locker definitely is something I'm very, very grateful I have. And also I think being a really good people person, just having a great attitude, that's so important, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (00:04:26):
I mean, we touched on this earlier, didn't we? Burned up, yeah. Having an attitude and then a kind of mindset and a, a kind of kind of kind of attitude that means you are, you're gonna find that fish, you're gonna hunt that fish down, whatever it takes in the next four or five hours, we are gonna work it out. We're gonna find them. And not being defeatist, not being okay, well you know, being a bit helpless in this situation. So grasping the nettles so to speak, say, okay, well it's not working or this isn't working and that's not working, so this is the plan, this is plan B, this is what we're gonna do. So I've been quite, quite decisive and, but as well, having a little bit of confidence within that to say, okay, well clearly this isn't working or you know, okay, well we've had five cars here, move that spot up there, let's way better or something like that. So, so having little skills and good people skills and good attitude. I think it's definitely something that is one of the most important things about dealing with any sort of commercial fishing where you are helping people who wanna catch fish.
Speaker 1 (00:05:19):
Yeah, that positive mental attitude goes a long way. And I mean you, you can, oh,
Speaker 2 (00:05:22):
It's everything, isn't it? You
Speaker 1 (00:05:23):
Walk out to the beach with a defeatist, you know, you okay cool, you're defeated. No problem. Guess what? You're skunking .
Speaker 2 (00:05:30):
Yeah you're gonna have 10 cars. You're gonna think this is a bit rubbish and go high. Whereas if you think 10 cars, okay, that didn't work, so what's plan B? How am I gonna make this work? Yeah, and that's definitely, I think I've gained a lot of that as well from a lot of tournament fishing when I was a kid. Um, teenage years doing a lot, a lot of very kind of intensive, multi multi-hour, you know, five, six hour tournaments. And then my as well, I did a quite a few big, big sort of cart fishing tournaments. I've done like five day endurance fishing co competitions. So you know, when you've done that and you know that, you know, you, you've maybe had a struggled with some of that very, very early stuff and think, oh God, I really didn't enjoy that last four or five hours. I was a bit helpless in that situation. How can I amend that? Um, it's definitely helped me become a better guide to having that tournament kind of mindset of like, right, I really need to catch a fish in the next hour. What's gonna do it for me? So having that skill is absolutely vital, I think if you're a guide.
Speaker 1 (00:06:19):
Yeah. Well I love that you brought up the, the leopard shark here because we're moving into the next portion we're gonna talk about your business, which is American Sea fish. Oh yeah. Uh, American Sea fishing. We're gonna talk about the tackle shop side. If you go to american sea fishing.com, the first image that picks up, that's a nice little leopard shark right there. That's what that is.
Speaker 2 (00:06:36):
Oh, that's a beautiful photo. In fact, that's such a good photo. I was, I'm gonna change that quite soon on the website, but maybe I'll leave it on there now you've mentioned it.
Speaker 1 (00:06:41):
Oh,
Speaker 2 (00:06:42):
Two of my, two of my really favorite, favorite clients who've now become friends. Like a lot of my regular clients like Chris and Glen and yeah, beautiful leopard shark just sums up California fishing in the summer. Really like a beautiful sunset and you know, a leopard shark, a beautiful catch and release kind of unique fish that you can only catch in southern California re really? So, um, yeah, that's a sub one of my favorite species, like we mentioned earlier.
Speaker 1 (00:07:04):
Yeah, they are pretty, they're absolutely beautiful fish, very
Speaker 2 (00:07:07):
All you all completely unique as well. They all have unique markings and you have ones which have a slight genetic abnormality that creates a lot of black in it and they're called scribble sharks. And I think if you scroll down on my Instagram, I think I've got one or two of those in there a little further down maybe from last summer. Um, and they're, they, so they get really crazy looking. That's a very standard one on the front of the website. Um, but they get very, very crazy patterns. Lots of little, almost like someone's hand drawn little hearts and smiley faces or something on it. Absolutely crazy looking fish. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (00:07:34):
So good. Alright, so let's talk about the tackle shop. So you yeah, you know, you, you talked about it earlier, you know, you, when you came over af after getting married, it was like, alright cool, all these steps went into place guiding business and then now a tackle shop, all these ones. So let's, tell me about the tackle shop and what got you into, uh, creating an online one.
Speaker 2 (00:07:54):
Um, well first of all, I, I worked for a tackle company back in England before I moved over. Um, did that for a couple of years and was marketing manager, media manager. So I kind of had a little background in the tackle industry business and I was also tackle tester for a couple of Phish magazines. So I was always very, very interested in tackle and developing tackle and that whole process of, you know, developing something to help someone catch fish, it was kind of a nice process. Um, so when I came over here, started the guiding business and very quickly I realized that in England you could go to the standard fishing shop and buy all of the stuff that I needed to make a decent rig in maybe not quite the wire, the exact brand of wire, but a lot of the other stuff would be very easy to get.
Speaker 2 (00:08:31):
Whereas you go into a fish and tackle shop here and it was nearly impossible. Like I remember trying to buy beta elastic, or people call it magic thread, bait thread, whatever later it's elastic. You cannot buy that in a phish tackle shop at that time hit when I came over I probably tried five, six tackle shops and they looked at you like what you want, like rigging thread, you want like that kind of wax thread they used for like rigging like ballyhoo or something like that? Nope. So very quickly realized, realized that there's a market there for, for slightly, um, niche surface and tackle, which is I guess what I mainly specialize in niche saltwater tackle of things like, um, the very specific brand of circle hooks that I like, the pulley rigs that I use for a lot of the leopard sharks and just probably 20 things like that that are completely unique.
Speaker 2 (00:09:13):
And you know, for example, another one is that you can't go into a tackle shop here and buy like an 8, 7, 8 ounce spiked sputnik surf sinker. So you cannot buy that at all in a tackle shop. And if you go any sort of like significant shark fishing here, um, any sort of current, you're gonna need at least six seven ounce, 6, 7 8 ounce wired surf sinker. So again, you can't buy that here. So again, a little gap in the market spotted that. And now we sell loads and loads of really lovely, really nicely made sinkers with a choice to have them made in China or have them made in America. So whatever price point you wanna go for, um, you know, I've got a sinker to sell you. So that's definitely the driving point of that business is realizing very quickly that there was not a lot of really good surf and salt water inshore tackle.
Speaker 2 (00:09:55):
Um, you know, you could buy all the tuna fishing tackle, you could buy like wa lus, all of the stuff like that in the tackle shop, but you couldn't buy for example a um, I dunno maybe a, maybe the exact brand of hook that I really liked. You know, maybe some slightly sort of cheaper, cheaper sort of, you know, low quality steel hooks a bit bit bendy, bit bit blunt for my liking. But um, you know, the Be Elastic is a good one really. I use that loads for shark fishing and I could not buy at all. I had to import it from somewhere else when I first came over here. And you know, very quickly you realize well I use a lot of that and a lot of people do as well. So let's start a business based on that idea that we're filling a market, which clearly there's a niche and we're gonna help a load of people catch fish. 'cause this is all the stuff that I use in my guiding business as well. So it's not stuff that I've just sort of randomly come across. It's something that I've used for at least a few months or a year or two and have a lot of confidence in and then bring it to market and bring it to my customers and my lovely clients as well.
Speaker 1 (00:10:48):
Well you got a lot of fun stuff on here. I mean, so I've been looking at it and there's stuff I've never seen. Uh, like
Speaker 2 (00:10:54):
What
Speaker 1 (00:10:55):
In interested, uh, the non-return rig sliders in rig ring. Oh yeah, never seen this before. This is interesting. Tell me about that. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (00:11:04):
In California a lot of people enjoy catching sharks from piers and there's a big scene of catching of pier fishing here. You don't need a fishing license to fish from a pier, which is obviously attractive to a lot of people and it's relatively easy prospect to chuck a bait out. And how those sliders work is you gonna first of rig up a rod, preferably with mono like straight mono, maybe 30 pound mono something, 30 40 pound mono and you're just gonna tie a sinker to the end of that and launch that out, uh, with maybe a casting leader on the end there maybe so maybe 80 pound casting leader. And so you're gonna launch that sinker out off the end of your p and then what you do is you clip on, so you, you can thread by the, by that kind of, um, if you look on the non-return sliders, they have a kind of spiral metal section at the top and using that section you can thread that onto your main line by looping it round.
Speaker 2 (00:11:49):
So it's running on the main line like a slider. So you cast out wait till your sinker is really kind of stuck in place. So you use a big wire surf sinker and then thread that little little spiral metal section onto the line that slide up and down. And then you clip on your rig and your rig slides out. And if you're fishing for a thresher shark, you fish a rig, quite a big float rig. So you fish it on the top, um, with a rig with a bait suspended fresh mac on a six oh hook, six oh meets two circle extra. Um, you spend that about 10 feet below the surface and if you're fishing for maybe a leopard or a soup fin or something else hard on the bottom, you don't use a float rig, you just use a straight sharp leader, you know, six, seven foot liter and again slide that down hits the bottom or floats if you're using the float and you just wait for that to start rattling.
Speaker 2 (00:12:31):
I think they use relatively similar things for some of the pier fishing for some of the sharks in Florida, but I think maybe they use like what they call a trolley system, which is kind of almost like two rods and one's a kind of one holds the sinker and has a little kind of clip on it and the other one has the light boat just slide out on the clip, attach the other rod and when the fish hits it, the little clip pops out. So I've got a few of those, but over here it's much more about the dead bait fishing with the small mackerel for the thresher, the leopards soup, fin seven gill, stuff like that off the pier. And yeah, the way you do that big sinker out there, clip the slider on, slide your big bait out and you can get it out way further than you would do if you're just trying to cast that big bait without awkward float leader on that. So that's how they get used here and you get a weighted version if you wanna hit the bottom or a non weighted version if you're fishing at the top. And that's really the only difference. So they're kind of useful but thing for deploying a big bait off the beach for a decent sized fish. Um, you know, like a shark or a ray.
Speaker 1 (00:13:20):
Yeah, I can definitely see that now after you explain it. That makes a lot of sense and, and you get some really cool other, you know, you got a couple of really nice examples for uh, a couple of your, your double drop or your single dropper, especially when you're talking about the rockfish. If you take a look at it on the website folks, you'll notice the sinker is not a Sputnik, it's a nice, uh, cylinder style basically no edges because you know, if your sinker gets into rocks, guess what? And you've got something that stops it. It's not letting go.
Speaker 2 (00:13:52):
Also a lot cheaper, a lot cheaper to leave those in a rock rock in a pile of rock 600 feet down than it is to leave a Sputnik Yes
Speaker 1 (00:13:58):
Down
Speaker 2 (00:13:59):
The way down there. Definitely. Basically they're so much cheaper. And also they have the nice hydrodynamic shape where they're just gonna fall down nice and fast and it's got the double ring so you know, clip it on. You can use it as a trolling sinker. But most of the time over here they get used for the deep drop stuff. I mean we use, I mean I, we, I hosted a rockfish trip up in Ventura, it's a little further north of here up in April and we're using 32 ounce sinkers up there fishing 600 feet of water, which is kind of, kind of a unique thing for that. So, so you do have to use a really, really big sinker, hence those rigs, they, that sinker clip's a big old clip but there's a reason for that and it's 'cause of those giant sinkers or sometimes a jig involved as well.
Speaker 1 (00:14:37):
Yeah, smart. And I do love that you added a, for your bullet floats, you added a sand camouflage paint job. Um, oh
Speaker 2 (00:14:45):
Those are, those are a big really interesting product actually the big, big seller actually I sell quite a few to guys in Florida and other places 'cause some seem to be a fairly unique thing that we make. So, and actually they're based really how those come about because those corino when we're fishing for the Corino in ferry shallow water, having watched sight fished them a lot and watched them feed, they're incredibly spooky and anything that looks unnatural in the water, very, very quick to just move off and just not interested at all. And they've probably also been pressured, you know, they've been caught maybe a couple of times. So, um, so anything that goes in my favor when I'm fishing for those I'm very interested in, you know, that whole marginal gains theory is something I'm very keen on. And definitely with the sand camo sinkers, it definitely, I'd say has had a positive effect in terms of they don't seem to spook off them, I've watched them, they just seem to just look at it like a bit of rock or sand.
Speaker 2 (00:15:37):
Whereas if you have a very shiny one of those very shiny sinkers, you know, real bright metal ones bouncing down, they definitely seem to suss that a little faster. And I notice the catch rate with my clients when I can really look at it from fishing with three people over a morning. The ones who have the more subtle tackle always do better and definitely those sand sing 'cause they're based on the wet sand from my local called Bea favorite called Bea Beach, which I have a guy made especially to match that exact wet sand of that exact beach. So they're a pretty precise product, but they're pretty, um, I think a lot of people have, uh, use for those if they're fishing over sand for where we fish. So yeah, sell, sell a nice amount of those. They're an interesting product.
Speaker 1 (00:16:15):
It is, I mean especially so it's great that I see this now because it's part of uh, something I've been going through my head with a lot of things and talking with guys here in our local area, you know, this time of year is, it's hard fishing for us here in Florida during the summer, especially June, July, August. You know, we got, normally we got June grass and it's the sludge stuff, it's never fun. But then you start looking at the, the temperature, the fish are gonna be more finicky. They're, they're gonna be a little bit more lock jaw because now they're expending energy or they're holding their energy 'cause they're too hot, too cold, whatever it may be, you know, between summer and winter. So you have to downsize your tackle, you know, which you're normally throwing a 15 hour, you know, a 15 pound, 20 pound double dropper out there and you're like, oh, okay, I'll be fine. Um, doesn't work right now because the fish are not playing in the game. So you have to downsize even further. So hiding your sinker in the sand is always a challenge. I mean it doesn't matter what you throw, whether you throw sputniks or pyramids, you know, it's still there. It can be seen. But that's a nice little ad. So very well played and great job with your research that, uh, you know, helped you see that and rolled through. Well, well, well done indeed, sir. Well done indeed
Speaker 2 (00:17:23):
. Thank you. I I mean, but what you've just said is exactly what I think about things like marginal gain theory about if you can find 10 things in your tackle, in your setup that are gonna make even 1% difference at the end of the season that's gonna have pretty caught you, another 20 fish maybe for example, and those 20 fish, then that might be like the real trophy pompano for me. It might be like a really big client might client Corina or something like that and you know that. So I think if you can work out another 2020 things that you can do better, even if it's a tiny, tiny little thing, like maybe using a micro swivel instead of one of those big brass swivels or using the sand camo sinker instead of a big shiny um, you know, lead one. Um, you know, just tiny little things like that I think can make a big difference.
Speaker 2 (00:18:02):
And like I said, when when you're fishing for pre pressured fish, it may difficult situations, you wanna take all your chances, right? You don't wanna have anything negative in that setup. And if you can just work out the 20 things, 10, 20 things that are gonna get you over that hump of being that guy who stands on the beach with a cooler full of fish as opposed to the guy skunking, then that's a huge thing. And what you just said about the subtlety, I think is a big factor, especially when it gets to this time of year like here as well. A lot of pressured fish, everyone's fishing for them. I'm using smaller hooks now, four six pound fluorocarbon liters. So just to get that little edge over everyone else. It's not 'cause I enjoy fishing like night, it's 'cause I'm, that's the most effective way to do it right now.
Speaker 1 (00:18:38):
Yeah. Hey, you gotta do what you gotta do to win and absolutely, I had a great conversation with my buddy Justin from Justin Reed fishing. Um, for those you guys know, you, you guys know we're always together when we're fishing . He's my fishing buddy out here. And that's just how we always roll. The fun piece we had a conversation on a, a couple weeks ago was we were downsizing tackle, and people were talking about, oh, it's not heavy, you know, it's too light for fish. And it got me thinking about, I, I used to scuba dive a lot as a kid and uh, you know, friends of ours are scuba divers. When you're underwater, that 20 pound fish doesn't weigh 20 pounds, did the, that pound thing doesn't matter now when they're swimming, now you got thrust ratio, now you're talking about weight versus what these pulling on the line so you can get, you know, you see these people catching fish on six pound, they're like, how'd you do it? That's such a, that's a 30 pound fish. It's not about what the fish weighs, it's about how you manipulate. You know, that drag is what's going to give you that separation. So, you know, you think you're pulling into 30 pound fish through that water wall. They're thrusting away with 40 pounds of thrust to get away from you. In reality, you're not stopping them, you're slowing them down. So that six pound is still within its realm. Hey, it's kind of about time for a paycheck, don't you think? Yeah, we should probably do that.
Speaker 1 (00:20:01):
This paycheck is being brought to you by DSS Custom tackle. That's right. The Delaware spearfishing team up there. Lots of good stuff on Delaware, surf fishing.com. Maybe you need some rigs, got you covered. Or if you're tying your own rigs and you're looking for a supplier, hey they're one of those companies that can do that. They can help you out, get you outfitted for all the stuff you need to build it. Lots of really cool floats are coming out. Um, I am absolutely in love with the sand flea that glows in the dark. You can also find that on the BSS surf fishing. That's berry's rig. Really good double dropper. Uh, there's other rigs available for different types of fishing jigs, uh, geez, terminal tackle, you name it. There's a lot of great things on there and they've got you covered. So ds custom tackle.com, go over to the website, take a look, get your order in, you won't be sorry. Great stuff. So you don't have to go with this big poundage really. And like you just said, you know, downsizing it even lower and you're still nailing it. People, I think people overthink that when they're in the tackle shop. They're like, oh, I need 30 pound, I need that for this fish. It's like, no, slow down, slow down on your thoughts there. So what do you think about that?
Speaker 2 (00:21:07):
Yeah, I think refinement is a huge factor and definitely I'm, I'm definitely prone to fishing heavier than I should do. Maybe sometimes same because I'm always conscious of, okay, I mean like when you have that guiding mentality of like, okay, I want every single fish that I hook, my client hooks to hit the beach, but at the same time there's a balance of, you know, I can't put them on the situation where in fact this goes back to maybe another guiding lesson is putting clients in situations where they maybe not gonna have a great outcome of maybe you're playing a fish in four pound for some of your mate, some of my maybe and someone who isn't, uh, an amazing angler, someone who's just starting out. Maybe fish on that kind of three or four pound line is, is definitely a different, different, more jeopardy, way more jeopardy than a fish on 6, 7, 8 pound line for example.
Speaker 2 (00:21:48):
So, um, so you know the finding your kind of sweet spot within that and your ability and matching your kit to the exact, you know, brand of line that you've got and that make sure that line does it, you break it, whatever it says. You know, we had one fishing a light line tournament earlier this year and the four pound maximum line, lucky we te checked our alleged four pound fluoro. That breaks really at five and you start have to having to use a three and four pound line. So, you know, knowing your products, knowing what you're gonna fish with, adding refinement into that, building up a kind of reliable repertoire of, like you said about the six pound setup up. So what is your six pound setup? What is your brand of line that you trust? What is the knot by the way, pal bar knots are absolute king as far as I'm concerned right now. Yeah, same with the light line stuff. . Yeah, I can't, it doesn't, it just doesn't, it's incredibly simple, isn't it? It looks like it shouldn't be as strong as it sh as it is, but they just don't go wrong. It's always another bit in something else in the system. If it breaks, it really does. But if it is, it always seems to be another something else in the system that breaks never the pal mal knot, which is kind of interesting. Do you ss smell your, are you a sne Snelling guy Brian? No.
Speaker 1 (00:22:50):
Do you s smell your hooks? No, I, well I do for my mortician rigs. Um, I will smell them that way. But nine times outta 10, no I am either a Palomar knot guy or, uh, for the loop, obviously the loop down through and pull. But yeah, no, normally it's a Palomar.
Speaker 2 (00:23:07):
Well I, I was a palama knot on the hook guy for a while and I think I've recently come across something that's maybe an even a but falling into that marginal gains category of maybe a little edge because when I look at how the fish feed in the shallow water here in the, especially when there's a bit of current, they're feeding similar to trout maybe, you know, they're kind of staging up current, they're looking up current and they're picking off at stuff as it comes down current. And I figure the dynamic I want for my client is they're bouncing that sinker down the current and as it almost like a stream streamer fishing a trout with a stream with a trout. And as that streamer or that sinker kind of flows round kind of goes around that arc and that current, um, and that fish just snatches it and moves, moves off that snail knot I think really helps that hook situate into the corner of the mouth and just turns.
Speaker 2 (00:23:50):
And I've noticed that when I've been snelling my knots recently snelling, my hooks recently, so many of the fish are now as opposed to being hooked maybe a little bit further back in the mouth, which you do find with those croker here, um, they're, they're, so many of them are hooked right in the corner of the mouth, like almost like a circle hook. And so I figure that snail connection is, creates a kind of circle hook situation of a kind of rounded finish on that hook. And then when the fish picks up that bait, like a trout of the streamer just moves off. As it moves off, it ties up to that sinker and that hook pulls around to the corner of the mouth and then just situates in the corner of there 'cause it hasn't got that little knot right in the top to sort of bounce it out.
Speaker 2 (00:24:23):
And that s smell knot, that line leads that hook into that corner of that mouth and as they move off, you just get that lovely load rod loads up and you've got fish on. Don't even need to set the hook. And that's something definitely I've been using the last few weeks and I think is a game me maybe, you know, might have only caught me one extra fish, but that extra fish might have been that 22 inch cor bean of my client the other week. Um, or it might have been the number four of our four fish day yesterday. Um, which, you know, turned out really well. So look, and again, a little tiny little thing like that, I was kinda interested to see how you might figure on that because I know a lot of guys who do the swordfishing tery type stuff do a lot of snelling of their circle hooks. So it was kind of a little, a little nod from them maybe led me to that path.
Speaker 1 (00:25:03):
Hey, yeah, I I could see exactly what you're saying there. Yeah. That I could see that working. 'cause that's a straight pull. Uh, the only problem I ran into early with my Snell game was the tag end. I was clipping it, I was clipping it short like I was told to, but in the surf, uh, for me when the water was rolling, uh, for some reason after I did it, I lost about six or seven fish and I was like, what the hell is going on here? Um, but what it had turned out is, is the, though the smell is nice and tight, as the wave was moving and moving the bait, it was actually pushing the main line for the Snell in and it was loosening the coils just a little bit enough for the tag end to slide back. So, uh, that was, that was a fun lessons learned of a yeah, that sucks . So I left the tag end a little bit longer and you know, the tag end's really not gonna do much. It's, you know, you can hide it and bait whatever it may be. But yeah, after that happened I was like, yeah, I'm going back to the Palomar for a little while. ,
Speaker 2 (00:26:02):
I'm surprised. Well, well this actually, the knot I've ended up using isn't this technically a snail knot? It's what is what we, what we call in England a Knotless knot. So if you just anyone looks up Knotless Knot, you'll see exactly the knot I've been using and I've had zero problems with that. No, no unwrapping no coming loose. I know what you mean. It can, it is something that if it's not exactly sitting right, it can come un undone a little bit and if it's loose it can potentially unwrap. But this knot that's knot with totally two or three wraps back up the shank or the format I've done so far, which has worked really well for me is size eight hook 12 to 13 turns down the hook, two or three back up and then through the eye. And I have had, haven't had a single failure with that.
Speaker 2 (00:26:40):
In fact, actually the, the other week when I put the first few times I used that, um, one of the first times I used that I hooked an absolutely what I assumed was a really big bat rate on my light gear. And I was, it was probably foul hooked in the wing or something, but I was probably on that thing for like 20 minutes and it got to the point where I was physically trying to bust it off and I couldn't bust it off on six pound, which, you know, that thing was gonna spoil me. It was gonna, I was gonna be on that thing for hours and eventually the hook pulled out and I physically tried to bust it off and all over doing was just dragging it close to shore. That's how strong a connection that was. . Yeah. So I was pretty happy with that. So not, not, let's not is the one you want if you're gonna snail light, light gear, pretty, pretty reliable, pretty easy thing to do.
Speaker 1 (00:27:18):
Yeah, I'm gonna go that route because I, I fully and I told everybody like, Hey Nona, your knots, this was a Brian screwed it up thing. I I I've fully accepted my failure on that, but the knotless, I will definitely take a look at that and probably move into that game. Yeah, that, that makes
Speaker 2 (00:27:31):
A lot more sense because Nel Knot is, is hard. A pure Nel knot is actually quite difficult. I think probably to make it
Speaker 1 (00:27:36):
Probably is it, I, anyway, I I I admit my failures we're gonna move on from my failures in . So, um, as I was playing on the website, I also love that you have writeups, uh, lots of blog pieces and articles, lots of good ones. And if you guys are into the surf games, uh, there is a great article you wrote, surf Fishing All Thing, all the things that beginner surf anglers get wrong, Tide Structures, Reagan Bates. Because in reality, when everyone starts, I don't, well I can't say everyone, it's a very large game where people in our world will go to YouTube and they will follow the YouTubers and they will follow some of the other websites. They'll follow Salt Strong, you know, all these pieces to kind of get into the game. But there are so many other pieces that we get wrong because we don't see the, the minute details that are in the building. Your article here really broke it down and really, I I, I'm very impressed with it. When I read it I was like. Yep, yep, yep. All these ones with app pictures and everything. You spend some good time on this. So I, I wanted to say, well very well done sir. Thank you for writing this up. Thank you. Yep. You know it, it's time for another ba check.
Speaker 1 (00:28:58):
This Paychex is being brought to you by the Kids Can Fish Foundation. You guys, I can't say enough great things about what they do. Uh, I really love it. Kids can fish dot net's the website head on over there and go ahead and see all these camps and programs that they were doing for getting, uh, kids out fishing. I mean they're taking these camps in or these kids into these camps to teaching 'em how to fish in the surf, how to throw lines or how to throw cast nets. So many different pieces all put together and they're able to do this from your donations. All the money that they make goes right back into the camp and they're building this up for the kids. The upcoming is the St. Simons Island, uh, running of the Bulls tournament in October. I'll be there. A lot of the other guys here in the panhandle, they're coming with me or I'm going with them depending on how you look at it.
Speaker 1 (00:29:42):
I'm just gonna be there, man. I'm excited. But we're all gonna get together. We're gonna fish, we're gonna have a great time. It is all put together because of them and I'm very thankful. And all the money that goes to that gets thrown back out there for the kids to continue on with these camps. Really fun. So kids can fish.net, you won't be, uh, you, you are going to help somebody if you jump in on that. You really are. And I love their slogan. It's not official, but I still love it. More tackle boxes, less X boxes. That's phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (00:30:10):
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Um, well I think a lot of those articles are borne out of things that I see on the day-to-day phishing and when I'm guiding clients and I always, there's always some consistent themes that I find people struggle with. Um, so it's really just helping people address all those problems. And like I said, often they'll have nine out of 10 things. They'll do exactly right, exactly the right rig and set up and right tide, right time of day, perfect everything else. And but then they'll bring the, the biggest pile of junk frozen squid in the bottom of their bag for a year or something. So, you know, something like that. So often it's just one or two little things you've gotta help people out with and you send them off in the right direction and it changes the game completely. So I think people reading that, I think that's actually is the most popular page on my website or the most popular article on my website right now. Um, there's probably, there's lots of people out there surf and thinking, oh God, why isn't this happening for me? Why aren't, you know, why aren't I getting that lovely big croker or something or that big surfer? And this is really aiming to help people address all of those little tactical nuances I think that they need to address in order to have a successful session.
Speaker 1 (00:31:11):
Definitely there. Alright, so with the you, you've got an online shop, not brick and mortar. Yeah. For people to drive to your website says, Hey look, contact you and it's all good there. Yep. What do you feel that a reason that people that come to the area don't go to the local tackle shops to get their gear? Uh, versus maybe a big box store, you know, Hey, I'm gonna go to Walmart or I can go to the local. Why do you think that is? People don't just jump in on going to the local shop versus them the big boys?
Speaker 2 (00:31:43):
Um, I think some of the, the definitely when you go to a local taco shop here, they're always in quite odd locations. You know, they're always in a kind of strip mall next to between a pizza place and a something else. So they're vis not often that incredibly visible are they? If you're driving along the freeway in California, you'll see like the big five store, maybe there's a Dick Sporting Goods and yeah, if you're out in essential in Rucha Cucamonga, there's Bass Pro and so you can go there, you can buy your license and you could buy everything. Most of it's fairly useless for a lot of the ver very specific surf and salt water stuff. But you know, you've got that visibility. So if you're just, if you're just just driving along or looking for a shop, most of the ones that are gonna be within the easily accessible places are the big box stores.
Speaker 2 (00:32:24):
But whereas I think if you, if you look into some of the more local stuff, there's the value that they can offer you in terms of the lo the local advice and the just the, just just the, I dunno, I just, I just really love going to tackle shops. I mean it's just an absolute, they're all absolute emporiums of stuff that I can just look at for hours and hours and hours and I'd always learn some stuff, always spend too much money. So that's probably a good reason is you get that experience of going to a tackle shop and being like, oh my God, I just wanna spend about four hours walking up and down here. Versus when you go into the standard Walmart type, you know, big five, it's more like, okay, I just need to get my thing and get out of here.
Speaker 2 (00:32:59):
So there's a little different experience and the person at the counter isn't gonna go, oh, how are you doing? Where are you fishing? Oh great, well maybe you should try here. Or did you think about buying this, this baits worked really well yesterday. You know, that local advice could be a real game changer. And you know, definitely my local tackle shop said, shout out to chalk baits. Um, they're always very much dialed into that kind of local knowledge and they always, whenever I send clients there, they always send me a text afterwards, goes, oh my God, those guys are so helpful. You know, he tell me exactly where to go and he made sure I bought exactly the right thing and you know, so I, so I really like that good local tackle shop is absolutely invaluable in, in my experience. And there are the source for all of the good stuff, all of the good knowledge, good, good licenses as well. And um, all of the good good tackle that you wanna buy, not the kind of big box, whatever the local buyer for the big box store has decided to stock in that store. It's the stuff that they know will work and sell.
Speaker 1 (00:33:50):
Yeah. And the Walmart, you know, person's not gonna ever, ever try to find a way to help you the sale is done Always.
Speaker 2 (00:33:59):
almost feels like the opposite of when you're in there, .
Speaker 1 (00:34:02):
Yeah, yeah. Our, our local one. 'cause we're very fortunate here. We have several tackle shops very close to the beach. So we we've got it in that one out in Cali. Uh, for those of you who've never been to Cali, anything beachfront or close to the water is triple uh, . There's nothing cheap about that. The, the coastal area, it's, it's very painful for that. But, um, yeah, but like you, I walk into Walmart and I'll see people come in from out of town and they're like, oh yeah, I just got some rods. Or I'll like, oh, what'd you get? What? Oh that's a nice pen rod. Okay, cool. That's good. Uh, why didn't you go to the local shop? Oh, there's a local shop. Yeah. Then they're gonna spool that line for free for you too. You, you're gonna have to do all this. So yeah, but also the, it's rough, but
Speaker 2 (00:34:45):
Also they're gonna sell you the eight or nine foot surf rod in the tackle shop, which is actually gonna be really, really good and really useful. Whereas when my experience, we go to like the average Walmart type big box store, a lot of their stuff is, it's the seven foot, it's like the ready made combos. You know, there's combos that just come that are like universally sold and it's always a seven foot. There always seems to be seven foot spinning rods with uh, 4,000 size reel and you're probably gonna end up loaded with some junky mono and you know, maybe that'll catch you few fish. But that's pretty far from optimal in my opinion. So yeah, different experience. Definitely.
Speaker 1 (00:35:18):
Yeah, the big box store is my, so , I've got a new technique and I'll share it here on the show because it's been kind of my new fun thing. Um, I always shop at my local shops. My, my number one shop that is my closest to me is Half Hitch. Um, I'm always in there, I'm talking with the managers I know, I know the gear they have and uh, I never can complain about any of it, you know, if they don't have it then I'll run down to Emerald Coast, uh, ba bait and tackle down the road. Uh, but one thing I've been doing lately is sometimes stocking the big box stores clearance aisle. I picked up a $500 reel for $120. Uh, really?
Speaker 2 (00:35:55):
What was it?
Speaker 1 (00:35:56):
It was, oh my gosh, which one? It was the pen. Please tell me it was the pen. Uh, of course my frigging brain doesn't work right now. Uh, it was one of the high speed, low speed drop drop reels. Uh, like a conventional,
Speaker 2 (00:36:12):
Like a big fathom or Yeah, big international.
Speaker 1 (00:36:15):
Yeah. Yeah. I think it was a fathom. Big fathom. I believe it was a fathom. Oh nice, nice. And it was, it was like, oh wow, you know, holy crap, this is a great deal. 'cause they were clearing out last year's section, right. You know, they're getting rid of last year's to bring in this year's and it was a, it was a steal. Then they had, you know, Walmart had another one where they had a depth finder for kayaks, which was, I think it was a Garmin system that was normally 600 down to two 50. So it was like nice, you know, stocking the big box stores for those kinds of deals. Your local tackle shop's not gonna be mad at you , they're not. They're gonna be like, yeah, gimme the link. I'm gonna buy that for me. . You know, so using that, but going to your local shop for all the things that are there, especially when you're traveling the local shops. If you just put local tackle shop near me on your phone and you're gonna find them. But going to your local ones that way, like you said, they're not gonna, they're gonna give you all the knowledge and they're not gonna upsell you. They're going to help you get fish because they know if you catch, you're coming back tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (00:37:09):
If anything, they hurt themselves by being so honest. And I'll give you a really nice example of this, which makes me really wanna go to this tackle shop is that one of my regular clients, he wanted to get himself kitted out with a rod and reel and he went to the tackle shop and they had the reel but not the rod. And they refused to sell him the reel because they didn't want him to buy a rod that didn't balance with the reel. So they refused to sell him a $350 reel. Um, which presumably they'd have made a nice margin on because they just didn't want him to be in a kind of position where he might buy less than suitable rod at this in another store. So that's, that to me is like per unbelievable customer service where you are foregoing a significant profit just to make sure this guy is gonna be in a really good spot with his tackle. So 10 out of 10 for that store after five, I think it was Island Fishing Tackle in Orange I think, or it was very similar the name to that I think from what he told me. So yeah, shout out to them man. Respect to that store for making that kind of call and customer service.
Speaker 1 (00:38:05):
Yeah, that's good stuff. Wow. I'm impressed. Good job you guys. Yeah. Happily liking that one. I'll make sure it's the right one and link it back. It'll be on the website .
Speaker 2 (00:38:15):
I will find out and I'll send you a text 'cause I'm perfect. I was so impressed when I read that. And of course you guys to the, you know, you went to the next door and they had everything and they bought everything there. But you know, that same, and I was just thought, that's a really nice touch. That means that they're in it for the right reasons, I think. Yeah. And that's a good way to build a business long term.
Speaker 1 (00:38:31):
Definitely. So, like I said, you've got a lot of great things on your website and people by all means take a look. There's, there's plenty of cool stuff to use and lots of fun stuff that you can utilize anywhere with knowledge on the website for helping you do good. And if you're out in Cali for my Cali listeners, 'cause I know you're, some of you're out there, one of them being Dwayne, you know, you need to be out fishing. Uh, my buddy from canceled for maintenance podcast, he's out there doing his thing, but uh, he hasn't fished enough. And I said, you need to get out to this website 'cause I found your site and I sent it to him. He's like, I need to buy this, I need to buy this, I need to buy this . Like, yes you do. Um, so let's get to this last question in this category and then we'll get down to the closing and get you outta here. What have been some valuable lessons learned about the tackle industry that helped you with the current setup that you're in?
Speaker 2 (00:39:17):
Oh goodness. Um, there, there's so many things that I've learned the last two or three years. Um, a lot, a lot of very boring, businessy, taxi type things. Um, oh goodness. Trying to think about some more of the more interesting phishing things. Um, oh, it's such a, I think I've just, I think everything, I think everything is such a learning process is this, this is such a all encompassing question and that I'm always learning when I'm running this business every day I'm learning something . Um, but I think the more, I think an overall lesson I take from my recent experience, definitely, particularly this year, is the more I can help people catch stuff, the easier it becomes to sell them tackle. And the better my tackle is, the easier the end that sale becomes. And it sounds kind of obvious, but, you know, I need to really make sure my stuff works and if I sell someone a leopard chart rig, you know, if I just send them a packet with a wire leader in it, well great, that's one thing.
Speaker 2 (00:40:15):
But I've now, in the last year or so, introduced for example, on my packaging is the QR code. And you use that, the QR code and it takes you to the tip section of our web, web, my website, just a load of videos and load of articles. And it's all the stuff that directly relates to how that product works and how that product works is something that I've probably been working for like two or three years and I've probably blueprinted it several times and tooled it up and thought, okay, well that's not gonna quite work like that. And I've probably changed that hook five times to the perfect pattern. So probably the, probably the overall lesson I've taken from the tackle industry is the more I help people, the more successful my business gets and the more outrageous customer service I provide. Which is something I've, I've listened to a podcast about some, um, customer facing business a few months ago, and the guy said one of his main thing is, is just provide outrageous customer service, which is, so that's what I do, you know, I'll literally email my clients after I know they've received their rigs or when they're about to receive their rigs and say, Hey, any problems, any questions, any tips, please just send me a message.
Speaker 2 (00:41:15):
Where are you going fishing? How can I help you? You know, I'll tell them, oh great, we'll let you great. You wanna catch a leopard shark and you live in, I'd know San Diego and I'll just sent you a rig. Great, we'll let, here's a great beach to go and do that. And also on the back of that packaging is a QR code. It's gonna be a video about how to mount the rig on that, mount, the bait on that rig. Um, also there's an article about how to use the rig and there's, you know, probably 20 ways I can help you, which I've developed in the last year to help catch a fish. So I think that's probably my biggest lesson is going the extra mile of helping people catch a fish to differentiate myself from anybody else who's doing similar thing in any other tackle shop, which might sell you similar rig, but they're not gonna have the extra advice, they're not gonna have like a personal touch of service.
Speaker 2 (00:41:54):
Like, I'm gonna really try and give my clients and my customers and, you know, if one of my customers bought a rig and picks up their phone the next day and just wants to talk about, I know, like a leopard shark fishing session or how to catch a big soup fin or something like that, I'll absolutely do that, no problem at all. Um, you know, that's always a pleasure for me to help people along that same path. So yeah, so outrageous customer service is probably my, my main lesson in both my guiding and my tackle business.
Speaker 1 (00:42:20):
That's perfect. And so good on you right there, because that, that information, like you just said right there, that email, that message, that video link, that text, all that you're, you're encompassing all the learners. The video, the audio learner, the video learner, the, you know, or the visual learner, the kinesthetic learner, you nailed 'em all. So that's phenomenal. Yeah. That you've done that. And that's, and that probably helps more people than anyone can really think of. So very well done. Yeah. And also
Speaker 2 (00:42:44):
I figure if I help, if I help that guy when he is on the beach, he's gonna tell another five guys, probably 2, 3, 4 guys. You know that old marketing thing of if someone has a great experience with your company or brand, they're gonna probably tell six or seven people about that great experience. So I think that's a great way to build a business. And like I was saying earlier about that tackle shop, I've just told you about that tackle shop who helped out my client by not selling 'em a real, and I was so impressed by that. I've told you about that. So that's a great example, isn't it, of like, they haven't even made any money out of us, but yet we've still talked about them. 'cause they provided outrageous customer service.
Speaker 1 (00:43:13):
Yeah, yeah. That, that train runs very well. That and it always does. And we're helping people. That's all that, that's what we're in. We're in thinking to help people man. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (00:43:23):
Solving puzzles and helping people solve that same puzzle is
Speaker 1 (00:43:27):
The thing, isn't it, ? Yes. It's alright. So let's get you into the closing questions here and get you out for the day. What knowledge would you give to a brand new angler starting out in the surf game?
Speaker 2 (00:43:38):
Ooh. I'd say learn how to learn about tides, learn about tide cycles. Learn about how those, how those work. I've, I've, I probably haven't had a client like this for a few couple of years, but I've had clients before who've, who've done, haven't realized there's such thing as a tide. They think the wind drives the water in and then when the wind stops blowing, the wind water goes out. So learning about tides, learning about tide cycles and how that relates to moon cycles and how that relates. If you fish in California, how that relates to grandon runs and then looking at working out those peak times to go fishing. Um, it's probably one of the major things. Another one thing is get really good at tying really good palama knots or, or a uni knot. Um, one of those two, it's probably gonna be the thing you're gonna tie a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:44:17):
Don't tie your granddad's like fishing knot, that blood knot or clench knot. Most of the time that goes wrong. I've seen that happen a lot. People who just thought, oh, just tie this quick knot rather than take the time to tie a really good palama and then the next fish goes pop and it's always on that same, same poor junky knot. So yeah, get good at knots, get good at reading tides, um, get good at castings. These very surprising amount of people. He say, oh yeah, I fished all my life and I've done this type of fishing and that type of fishing. And you give 'em a spinning rod and you say, okay, great, well just cast over there. So, and they really can't do it. They cannot cast properly. They've got all these weird techniques and they just a bit bit off. So if you just can't cast can stand in a field, can get the gear you're gonna be fishing with a lot can stand in a field, put a hoop 30 meters away and just cast out that hoop for an hour and say you've got it absolutely dialed in.
Speaker 2 (00:45:04):
But there's a really good casting video on my website, so I'm not trying to pro promote that anymore. But there is a really good casting, we don't have to dial out a load of light line casting issues, so that might help a few people. So I think that's really get good at casting, get good understanding the, the ties and the saltwater environment. Um, of course understand all the species you're gonna be fishing for and be very focused maybe as well be probably the best lesson in all of that. Be very focused on what you wanna do. Don't just go, oh well I'm gonna go surf fishing today and I wanna catch everything. Just saying, okay, well today I'm gonna, you know, my first surf fishing session, I'm gonna try and catch a surf perch, which would probably be the best way to do it. Um, these are the things I'm gonna need to do that and these are the things about that species that I know and these are the things I can research and learn about that species.
Speaker 2 (00:45:45):
And then I can start to form a plan and, and I'm sure like your brand, you have this poly thing which I called an equation in my head of all these factors that go into the surfacing session and go into a successful day. And you know, there's a whole load of stuff of environmental stuff and weather tides, I mean cycle species, water, temperature, bait. And so if you start to develop that equation in your brain of all those input factors, and when the output is a fish, you think, okay, well which of those factors worked and which of those ones didn't, which of those were important and which ones were least important? And then you begin to together, you began to develop a sort of program for yourself and develop that technique and develop that equation about how to catch a fish, which is I guess what it's all about, isn't it? So yeah, , it's a lot of, it's a big subject, but that's probably the broad strokes is what I suggest to people is those are the things to get really good at. Once you've got into, once you've got into the initial, this is the rod and reel, this is how that works kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (00:46:41):
I'm glad you brought up the casting thing. Uh, and I, I mean this the nicest way when I say it to you people, there is a major difference in cast distance from bass fishing, which you're using that flick of the wrist and that little bit versus the surf rod, which you are pulling with your left arm. It, and it, it makes a big difference in trying to cast a 12 foot rod like you would a bass rod. You're not gonna get the, uh, the outcome you think you would.
Speaker 2 (00:47:06):
No. And also we have the, the added thing of having to use a lot of the light line gear here. So we're using the eight, six and nine foot six rods and using like a three-quarter ounce sinker often. And there's definitely a very particular technique for casting that. And if you tried to do the bassi super fast, kind of like whippy just to power it as though you're like flicking something under a dock, then that also sometimes doesn't go quite so well. So there's definitely some subtleties in that. But I mean it's like any sort of fishing, isn't it? You go from fishing bass fishing to casting for, I know framing tuna offshore to casting a three ounce surf sinker on the beach. There's all different techniques, aren't they? There's basically the same thing but with really some significant subtleties between the lot. So getting used to casting, like you said, there's probably two things about, there's probably the first or the one that you mentioned, the 12 foot rod, the longer surf rod with a bigger three out sinker and then there's the lighter surf gear, which is maybe more similar to a kind of basto casting.
Speaker 2 (00:48:00):
But yeah. But either way, just getting used to your gear and getting used to being good at casting, getting that sinker out a straight line, getting it landing nicely. So, um, you know, so it's one of the things I try and teach my clients is about feeling that rock, feeling that sinker down and just trapping that line before that sinker hits the water so that leader lays out nicely, which is a technique you see a lot of those bas guys use when they're using Carolina rigs or you know, just trying to get a line, kind of get that line straightened out before it hits the water. So yeah, just things like that, just, just all, all subtleties can figure into um, all those subtleties can figure into much, much better fishing sessions. You know, if you can cast accurately five yards further than you could last week because you've been practicing, that might catch you that extra one or two fish that sit a little bit further out or that extra accuracy might get you into that little depth of water right into that hole or right just upstream of that hole about it's perfect scenario bouncing into that face of that fish.
Speaker 2 (00:48:51):
So yeah, there's probably a laser, there's probably a bigger factor than a lot of people realize, isn't it? They think, oh casting's casting, I just go down there, chuck it out and there's something will happen. Yeah. But there's also you, you know, you can really up your chances significantly by being better at that.
Speaker 1 (00:49:07):
Yeah, yeah. The Phish likes to play in different zones so just, you know, yeah, we'll get you there. We'll get you there. . . Yeah, what do
Speaker 2 (00:49:15):
You Nice. Just a nice smooth casting that's a kind of a good, good casting, smooth casting technique, you know, it's all quite personal isn't it? But just practicing that, you know, just, just going and practicing. Just go and do it. If you rubbish it, go and do it. Don't be practicing on the beach when it really matters. You know, be practicing in the middle of the day when you, there's no nothing happening tide wise and you've got a couple of hours free, go and do it then.
Speaker 1 (00:49:35):
Perfect. Definitely put. Alright, so what do you think has been a reason for such the surge to surf fishing?
Speaker 2 (00:49:43):
Um, I think there's, I mean there's obviously, obviously been a surf fishing culture in California. I mean when, when I came from England obviously we had a huge beach and surf fishing culture with our coastline, you know, the epic long rocky coastline we have. So I was kind of aware of this, but it's definitely different surfing culture over here and um, and I think the re things that drive people to go surfing here, a few different things maybe um, you know, maybe the food aspect is certain for, has always been there. But now I think the sporting aspect has become really common and I think one recent factor has obviously the Covid stuff and I noticed a definite increase in people looking to get out with their families after covid kinda, you know, had a little period of being locked, locked up maybe a little bit and thought, okay, well this isn't fun.
Speaker 2 (00:50:26):
What is gonna be the most fun outdoor kind of, you know, sporting thing I can do with my family. And you arrive at things like fishing, which is really fun. So I think a lot of, you know, I've seen a lot of families come into it and helped quite a few families get rigged up and, you know, buy their own combos and now they're off doing it on their own after, you know, three or four sessions they've got it, got it all dialed in. So I think that's a big factor. People are just more into doing outdoor stuff as well, which I really like. I really appreciate that. Um, and I think this year in particular, I've seen a real surge in definitely the last two months of people have been very interested in that. I think it's a big factor for us this year is the water temperature that's really, that's really crept up and we are having 70 degree water, which is the first time we've had that in probably two or three years I think, in my experience.
Speaker 2 (00:51:08):
So people are seeing that water temperature, they're seeing a lot of the fish being caught and they're thinking, oh great, I want a piece of that action. Um, and they're, you know, hitting me up for lessons and uh, tuitions and just fun family sessions. So I think there's a big factor. There's sort of a few things going on, but um, I think this is gonna be a nice season for, for big a really popular surf season. 'cause of the great conditions no more covid, they all spill. That kind of messed us up here about a year and a half ago has completely gone now. No, no after effects of that now. Um, so yes, we're in a good spot here and I think a lot of people are gonna be into surf going forward in the next few weeks.
Speaker 1 (00:51:42):
Yeah, I agree. Alright, second to last question. It's
Speaker 2 (00:51:45):
The best isn't it, Brian? Oh it is, it
Speaker 1 (00:51:47):
Really is. Oh, it really is Brian. Like
Speaker 2 (00:51:49):
I, like, one of the reasons I love about it right, is you make your own luck, okay? I don't really believe in luck in terms of like, it randomly might happen. I believe in like luck is a, was a luck is a confluence of preparation and opportunity. And if you're on the beach, you've made all of your own luck. You're not reliant on the captain, you're not reliant on the, you know, the the deckhand to rig you up and tie your knots or whatever, or gaffey fish. It's all down to you. You are the captain, you're the deckhand. I think that's what makes surf fishing in that, in that in short environment, just the most interesting, challenging kind of form of fishing that anybody can do. You don't need to be a millionaire as well. You don't need to have a boat. It's a big factor as well. So it is the best yes, in my opinion. Oh,
Speaker 1 (00:52:27):
I think it's a good, that's a true and I, I agree with your opinion. So that works out in far as I'm concerned. Okay,
Speaker 2 (00:52:32):
That's a great place then, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (00:52:34):
Almost so much. Almost done. This has been,
Speaker 2 (00:52:36):
This has been so much fun.
Speaker 1 (00:52:38):
You oh, me too man. You're not done yet. I got two more for you. I'm oh my God. Okay, sorry. Sorry, you're stuck. Sorry, sorry . I
Speaker 2 (00:52:43):
Wasn't trying to get rid of you at all.
Speaker 1 (00:52:45):
Oh well that's good. What do you recommend to someone coming to your area to fish that has never been there before doing, before they start fishing? Um,
Speaker 2 (00:52:51):
I say number one, make sure you've got some really suitable equipment. So getting yourself a nice usable, spinning, surf spinning rod in the kind of eight to 10 foot category using eight, six and nine six rods. Anything in the four to 10 or six to 12 that right now six to 12 is working really well. So that's probably a good place to start. If you're just coming here, get a six to 12 pound, you know, eight, nine foot spinning rod load that, you know, three 4,000 slice R with 15 pound braid, 10 or 15 pound braid. Um, a little mono or fluorocarbon top shot Little Carolina rig light fluorocarbon at the end that's gonna catch you so many fish of every, every variety wherever you are on that coastline. So that's a good place to start. Good reliable combo getting dialed into those tide times as well.
Speaker 2 (00:53:30):
So be able to plan a little bit. So say if you're coming here on holiday next week, you might look at those tides and pick up three or four that are gonna be really nice when there is a decent amount of water moving nice high tide maybe early morning or maybe a bit of water shifting out late, uh, just as that sun goes down, something like that. So a little bit of forward planning don't have the mentality I'd say of being, well I'm just gonna go fishing whenever I can because that's just how it is and I'm gonna still catch some fish that probably isn't gonna plan out too well for you. If you are end up trying to rock up on a busy Huntington beach type scenario at three o'clock on Saturday afternoon, it's gonna be crazy busy. So a little bit of forward planning, making sure that you've um, you've got the right equipment and you've done a little bit of research, it's definitely gonna help you catch a few more fish and being quite specific as well.
Speaker 2 (00:54:14):
So you know, you might think, okay well I just wanna catch a surf perch so all I'm gonna do and I is use these kinda small hooks and maybe a gulp sand worm, maybe a couple of little sand crabs, something like that. Um, but I find a lot of people, they're trying to catch everything and they end up using these kind of junky dropper loops from like Walmart. You know, there's like wire ones with some junky squid or to some rubbish they've had lying around in their tackle box and it doesn't really work. I've seen people using marshmallows as bait, all sorts of random stuff. So getting a really good kind of run repertoire of bait and tackle that you know works. And even if you, you know, just hit someone up like myself, like local guide and they'll tell you exactly what's use most of the time or you know, just my website's got it all listed on there. So that's the kind of thing I'd be looking at. It's making sure I had a really good solid combo that was versatile that I could take anywhere. And I said some basic knowledge about the baits that were gonna work. Fresh bait preferably. Um, also some basic knowledge about what tides, um, what what lunar cycle and what water temperature and what the kind of location of where I'm fishing and what I'm gonna be fishing up against. So prior knowledge is, is really important. I think
Speaker 1 (00:55:17):
We should probably do this last paycheck and get it done. Huh? Last one of the episode coming hot.
Speaker 1 (00:55:28):
The vinyl paycheck is being brought to you by the sinker guy. Oh you guys know it. Going over to the sinker guy.com and look at everything at chip's got going on in the sinker guy garage. Sinkers, hey he's got you covered. They're in his name. I mean come on. You guys know I love those sputniks. They are what I use my very favorite set of sinkers, always throwing 'em and it's, it's, I've got plenty on there and I always carry on an extra on my cart just in case somebody needs one. Uh, if you need terminal tackle, got it covered. Maybe some tools, scissors, pliers. Ooh, what else do we got in there? The break, uh, the thread needle to help you with getting the beads on the hook. The sinker guy method stuff. Oh yeah, yeah, that stuff still very important with matching the hatch. Maybe you need, oh I don't know the Bruno rig you ever heard of it? Super great rig. Doing great things up and down the east coast and actually all throughout so you know, keep your eyes open 'cause there's uh, there might be a new rig coming. Yeah, some fun stuff. They'll go on over to the sinker guy.com get your order in today. Definitely. Definitely. Alright, last question for you and we'll get you outta here. What is next for you, ?
Speaker 2 (00:56:33):
Oh, I've got some, I've got some interesting plans. So I think by tackle business, um, watch this space, you've got some interesting things coming out in the next few months. Um, we have a have a small bake business which is in the offering as well. Um, we've been catching lots of fish on the prototype baits for those and that's been kind of fun to start to develop that. So lots of things like that. Um, I think our drone shark fishing program is gonna kick into gear, uh, very soon this summer. So that's gonna be really fun. I'm looking forward to doing that. Got pretty good at that last year with our new drone. Caught a whole load of really cool, interesting sharks off the beach. So we're gonna kick into, that's gonna kick into gear. Um, I think there's a everything because everything's on the menu right now, so it's kind of, kind of, um, I'm excited about everything right now and that, so in terms of what's next is that the next few months of, I think there's gonna be some incredible fishing, I think there's gonna be some really interesting tackles stuff which we're developing and um, I'm just pretty excited and personal fishing wise.
Speaker 2 (00:57:22):
Um, I've caught a few really big corer for my clients, you know, 22, 23 inches. Um, but I really want one myself. So I think the next few weeks hopefully I'll be able to tick that box of get a really big monster cor on the sand. Um, I'd also, in terms of sharks, I would like a really big shore based thresher shark this year and I would also like to catch a really large seven gill shark at some point as well. So that's some, that's all, all in the offering for the next few weeks. Um, so yeah, watch the space, watch, check out my Instagram, have a look at that and you'll see some of the stuff that we've been talking about.
Speaker 1 (00:57:58):
Ah, that's so good Ben. Oh man, I'm so excited for you . Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:58:03):
Can I give a shout out to a few people as well, bro?
Speaker 1 (00:58:05):
Please do. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (00:58:07):
Oh, thank you so much mate. Well, so first of all, um, really shout out to all of the, my friends and colleagues over in California who've helped me, um, you know, throughout the years, developed my business and, you know, helped me early, early days, point me in the right direction on a few things. So those people, you know, if you're listening to this, you know who you are. Thank you. Um, also in terms of tackle companies, um, shout out to Kuma, Phish and u s a big supporters, um, making great stuff that catches my clients' loads of fish. So thank you very much guys. Um, we actually have an interesting, they made a really well I've, I've seen this, seen the rushes of a really cool film they made about surf patch fishing with me a few weeks ago and they've got that coming out soon on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (00:58:45):
So watch, check that out. You came fishing u s a, um, for the surf patch fishing film, which I think is, is a real work of art. I mean it makes me look good, which is , you know, if you're doing that then doing something, you're doing a good job if you're making me look reasonable on camera 'cause I'm the worst person ever on the camera. But they've made this beautiful film involving all sorts of drone footage and there's like slow mo b roll, it's like absolutely incredible. So I'm looking forward to seeing that. Um, so thanks, thanks to Kuma Fish Bites, fish Bites family obviously Courtney, Brett, Scott, everyone. Brilliant, thank you so much for catching me loads of fish. Um, you know, I met you guys few years ago and uh, been using a Bates ever since and I, and I think this year is gonna be really great as well.
Speaker 2 (00:59:22):
We're gonna be using a lot more of those fight club stuff for the big halibut and the White Sea bass, so, you know, I think you guys have good on that for the fluke and the lander over there. So yeah, kind of interested to use more of that this year. Um, Cox and Rule, my, the we, we import a lot of English surf fishing tackle because it's really high quality. Um, really, really nice high quality hooks and swivels and stuff. So we use a lot of that. So my coxin rule colleagues back in England, again, thanks for making great stuff. Always, always supporting us over here and um, you know, all of our shark hooks for example, uh, made from European steel coxswain rule meet sea circle hooks, absolutely best circle hook you can buy. So, um, so I think that's about it really. Um, obviously my wife is incredibly, incredibly supportive.
Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
Um, you know, I'm sure anybody who's got a partner who's into surf fishing will know that, you know, sand in the bed, the just sand everywhere, un unhelpful working hours, strange times of strange things in the fridge, possibly , strange smells, or stand a crab that might get left in my pocket and get forgotten, you know, that kind of thing. So thank you very much darling for tolerating that and um, that's about it really. And thank you Brian as well for having me on your podcast. I really appreciate that on the phone. So this has been a real honor and um, thank you so much for, you know, for le letting me, letting me just chat about all of the stuff that I'm into. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Well I'm very thankful that you came on and I am honored to have you. It was such a great episode. Lots of great knowledge and uh, again, really cool stuff and all. I'm just very excited and look forward to seeing everything you do in the future.
Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Oh, thanks Brian. Well look, anytime you're in Florida, sorry, anytime, anytime I'm in Florida or over on the East Coast, sorry, I'm gonna come and come and hit you up, hit you up for a session. 'cause I really want, I really want a big red fish that, that's definitely very high on my list. Sounds good. Stuff I really wanna catch. Sounds good. Anytime
Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
I'll find a way, one way or another I'll find a way and then when I get out to Cali, I'll definitely, uh, 'cause I know I'll end up back out there for something. There's, there's still, I got a lot of friends still out there, so I will be back in SoCal eventually. Yeah. So I will, uh, I'll call you beforehand and we'll go fish.
Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Awesome man. I can't, can't wait. Look forward to it. Likewise.
Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
Alright sir, you take care of yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
Alright, thank you so much Brian. Take care.
Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
Alright ladies and gentlemen, hopefully this episode helped you. Uh, 'cause it's helped me. I got a bunch from it. I got a huge amount from it and I know I can use a lot of the same techniques here in Florida and anywhere else I go and especially when I go out to Cali, I will definitely be contacting Ben. I got, it's been phenomenal. Uh, again, I'm so glad that we got to do this. You've been listening to finding demo surf fishing. Thanks for being here. Take care of yourselves. Share this out to somebody that needs that help. 'cause we're all here and we make each other better. And, uh, it's good times. All right. I am outta here later.