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Some Future Day evaluates technology at the intersection of culture & law.
Join Marc Beckman and his esteemed guests for insider knowledge surrounding how you can use new technologies to positively impact your life, career, and family. Marc Beckman is Senior Fellow of Emerging Technologies and an Adjunct Professor at NYU, CEO of DMA United, and a member of the New York State Bar Association’s Task Force on Cryptocurrency and Digital Assets.
SFD_039 -Marc: [00:01:00] [00:02:00] Neha, good afternoon. It's great to see you. Welcome to Some Future Day.
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Great to see you too, Frank. Thanks so much for having me.
SFD_039 -Marc: Neha, you really are the perfect guest for Some Future Day because you truly exist at this intersection of technology and culture. I love your background. It's so impressive. Let's just start there. Like talk a little bit about what you did at Google and what you did at Vogue.
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Yeah, absolutely. So I'm a computer scientist by training. I got my graduate degree in computer science from MIT, and then I was a software engineer [00:03:00] and tech lead at Google for five years. While I was there, though, I thought that I wanted to be a fashion designer because I love fashion.
So I started taking fashion design classes at FIT on the side. Um, however, I realized after a couple of semesters that I was really bad at drawing. Um, so then I decided to stick to the tech side of fashion, uh, which was more my sweet spot. Um, and I joined a startup that was, um, a luxury e-commerce marketplace, uh, where I led engineering and product.
And really, you know, what I learned there was That I really wanted to create an e-commerce experience that was different, um, and not just the grid of thumbnails on a white background that you see on every website, but that's pretty much what all the platforms like gave you to work with. So it was very difficult to create something that was, you know, truly unique, um, in e-commerce.
That was my learning from there. And after that, I was the head of product at Vogue for four years, um, where I [00:04:00] launched all of their digital properties, including Vogue. com, Vogue Runway. Um, their mobile apps and, um, of course, worked with many luxury brands who were ad advertisers in the magazine to create interactive digital, um, ad experiences for them.
SFD_039 -Marc: So it's interesting. Um, I remember like when Vogue went through their transition, it was almost from an outsider's perspective as if the technology piece of it was not the priority. In many ways, I thought my friends that were working at Vogue on the tech side, even social media at the time, were an afterthought.
And yet they grew to be some of the biggest and brightest minds in the industry today. some of them have even moved over into the tech space, like Ava Chen, for example. She's, you know, completely formidable, if not the most, in the social media vertical with Instagram now. What was it like culturally at Vogue during that time period?
Here you are-coming in through the lens of I love fashion, I'm an FIT dropout, but I know how we could impact Vogue, media, and the fashion [00:05:00] community, but what was the culture like? What was Anna Wintour's perspective on technology at that point in time?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Yeah, I mean, for me as a, like a tech geek person, it was, um, you know, it was like Disneyland as a tech geek person who loves fashion. Uh, but yeah, for us in the digital team and for woke.
com, we were quite independent. Um, we sat separately from the print magazine on a different floor. and we had a lot of autonomy in, um, in how we operated. So everything was sort of like built from the ground up in terms of the entire team, the staff, um, the writers, editors for, um, the-com versus, um, the magazine.
And, uh, we did hire our own, um, tech team, engineering, product, design, and so on. We also worked with external, um, agencies as well. but yeah, what we really try, I would say in terms of the culture, it was. Uh, very much focused on, um, you know, winning in the fashion media space, which, yes, while it was a little bit sort [00:06:00] of a late entry, I would say, um, you know, Vogue was still the biggest name, so we had a huge opportunity, and we were able to prove that out within Um, a couple of years, um, from relaunching, um, the site and, uh, for us, like the, yeah, the most important thing was that we just, we didn't want to just do things the same way that every other media site did, like even for our advertising formats, we didn't just want to have like those banners and boxes that you see on every media site.
We actually created like really rich native, um, you know, advertising formats for brands. and really tried to make the online experience, um, as rich as the print experience. So, it was an amazing team. In fact, I work with some of them now, uh, in my company, Obsess. Um, and, uh, we moved really fast, um, and we, um, you know, we were able to, um, really kind of grow the online audience, at a massive scale very quickly.
SFD_039 -Marc: So I'm interested in hearing more because it sounds to me if there was like [00:07:00] total separation between the digital side of Vogue and the physical side of Vogue, how could it culturally, uh, penetrate into the ether of the fashion world. Like, did Anna Wintour actually oversee the work that you were doing on the digital side?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Yeah. So on the editorial side, definitely. Um, she did. Um, I think, yeah, uh, every week they had meetings with her from, from my perspective, from the product and tech side. it was more when we had, um, big kind of redesigns, relaunches. Um, and all of those. And, um, you know, she looked at kind of all of the new site design stuff and gave, um, gave her feedback.
and yeah, so I was obviously more on the, on the tech side of it. Um, I'm sure there's,
SFD_039 -Marc: but you, but you were integrated into the-community anyway. Like, I remember you had mentioned to me recently that, um, you told me a fun story that you were invited to the Met Ball Gala, um, and, and went for your first time. What was that experience like? And actually, why don't you back up, tell everybody what the Met Ball Gala is, and [00:08:00] then talk about that experience.
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Um, sure. First, um, my first Monday of every May, uh, is the, yeah, is the Met Gala at the Met Museum in New York, uh, which is the opening of the new, um, exhibition, um, the fashion exhibition at, um, at the Met.
Every year. And, um, it is hosted by Vogue. Um, it's an incredible event with all celebrities from every different sort of, like, field, I would say, um, coming together. yeah, for me, of course, it was absolutely incredible to be able to, uh, attend. And, uh, we were also, like, we also had created this brand new technology that basically we wanted to beat the New York Times in getting the red carpet photos up on Vogue.
com before the New York Times gets the photos up on NYT. com. Um, and yeah, so we were kind of like testing, um, testing that out. Uh, but also just, yeah, getting to see, you know, these icons from [00:09:00] fashion designers to sports, to movies, to music, all in one place. yeah, truly like a dream, I would say.
SFD_039 -Marc: So then you moved on to, um, build this incredible platform named Obsess. how did you intellectually make that leap and say, I'm going to become an entrepreneur, I'm going to take a risk and, and how did you develop the business model? What is Obsess?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Yeah, maybe I'll just start by saying what Obsess is. So we are a virtual experience platform. Um, we create, um, 3D Um, immersive, interactive online shopping experiences, um, for brands and retailers. Our thesis is that, you know, online shopping has fundamentally not changed in terms of how it looks for 25 30 years now when it was first created to sell books by Amazon and the same interface that we used to use then which is a grid of thumbnails on a white background is still used today for everything from fashion, beauty, you know, home furniture, it's all the same.
So, um, [00:10:00] you know, I believe that the future of brands and future of online shopping will be much more visual, will be much more interactive and immersive and we are bringing that technology into, um, into the, into the e-commerce world. in terms of like how I decided to become an entrepreneur, that was definitely a big leap, but it's also something that I knew I wanted to do for a while, like having, um, having worked at Google and sort of the early days of tech, you know, big, these big tech companies achieving so much and growing so fast, like I was always Inspired by that, I always wanted to, um, create something myself and build a product myself.
but I wanted to find the right idea. I didn't, I didn't want to just do it for the sake of like entrepreneurship. I wanted to do something that I was really passionate about. And this idea came to me through many years because as I mentioned, when I worked at the startup, I really We came across this problem of all the e-com platforms giving you these templates, [00:11:00] very difficult to move off of them without a lot of budget and without like hiring, you know, a lot of engineers.
Um, so no wonder like every brand has the same e-commerce, you know, look and feel. Um, and then at Vogue, I, you know, talking to so many of the brands we worked with, I saw how much investment they were putting into their physical touch points with customers like beautiful stores and, you know, amazing fashion shows and events.
But then, digitally, it just wasn't, they didn't, their experiences didn't have the same level of creativity. They felt very mundane, and that's because they didn't have the tools, um, to actually express that, um, online. So that's how I really kind of came up with the idea and saw the opportunity as more-commerce moves online, um, that inevitably brands are going to have to follow.
Learn to form that connection with the customer in a richer way, which today they were very used to doing. Physically. Um, so that's how this concept came about in terms of the business model. I [00:12:00] would say I didn't have it figured out when I started. It was definitely several years of, uh, iteration and trying out lots of things to figure out what we ultimately landed on now.
SFD_039 -Marc: Yeah, that's interesting. So technically which year, like in what year did you turn on the business lights? When did Obsess legally launch?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: legally, we, I incorporated in 2016, but we didn't launch till our first kind of customer facing experience launched in 2017. and for the first few, like two to three years, I would say, you know, this was the era of the first virtual reality hype cycle.
So this was like after, you know, uh, Meta or Facebook at that time had just acquired Oculus there was a lot of like, um, hype in the market and there were predictions that there would be 100 million headsets in the market by 2018. You know, that didn't happen. So, so in the first [00:13:00] kind of phase, we were actually building for some of the early, first generation virtual reality headsets, including, Google Daydream and Samsung Gear VR and, you know, the first generation Oculus, but it was too early for all that, but that was the business in the first, like, couple of years.
And then we moved to our web based and mobile focused platform, um, and started gaining more traction.
SFD_039 -Marc: so in 2017, you officially launched and since then, how many brands have activated in these 3D, how many brands has Obsess activated in these 3D immersive, um, experiences?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Yeah. Since then, over a hundred brands.
Um, and we have created over 350, uh, virtual experiences.
which brands specifically in like fashion and beauty has Obsess launched?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Yeah, a lot of brands. So we work with J. Crew, Ralph Lauren, Alo Yoga, um, Dior, um, L'Oreal, um, Elf Cosmetics, uh, Maybelline. We also work [00:14:00] with brands outside of fashion and beauty now, including, um, like Furniture, um, Crate and Barrel, Dyson.
We work with media and entertainment companies like Disney, Universal Music Group, we launched with Taylor Swift at the end of last year, which was, you know, our highest traffic ever to a virtual store. So yeah, lots of different, also CPG companies as well.
SFD_039 -Marc: So, why is it so important for brands, um, in the future to, or now, really, I guess the future is now, right? You've been at this now for a long time, um, almost a decade, so in, in your estimation, I like how you positioned it earlier, by the way, you kind of discounted the fact that we're stale, we're old, we've been in the same format that Jeff Bezos came out to sell like lousy books with a million years ago, right?
Um, but why, other than the aesthetics, like, why is it important for brands to have these 3D immersive environments for their consumers?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Yeah, so today, [00:15:00] um, 80 of consumers in the U.S identify themselves as gamers. Um, in Gen Z, that's 90%. So, you know, the audience is used to being in very visual, very interactive, immersive, um, you know, experiences.
And that's starting to become their expectation for all digital experiences. And shopping is one of them. I ultimately believe that, um, You know, all of our online interactions will be in much more immersive, 3D, spatial, whatever term you want to use, um, kind of context. But, um, that's kind of the fundamental reason is the consumer is evolving.
But the second is that today's, um, you know, that kind of very flat database like interface, It's great for one type of shopping, which is when you know exactly what you want to purchase. So it's good for directed shopping. You can search, filter, get to the thing. But in terms of discovery of, you know, learning about the brand, discovery of products, um, you know, typically you're [00:16:00] doing that in a retail store today, or you're doing it on social media platforms, right?
But you're not usually brand's website for, um, for discovery. And that's a huge disconnect and an opportunity because. Again, this younger generation, they want to do that online, not just in a, in a retail store. so that's why it's important for brands to kind of create these, experiences and represent their brand in a way that's, you know, more visual, more interactive, that really pulls Revinate, Dr.
Elizabeth Haas, Pierre Gervois, AIG, Dr. Elizabeth Haas, Gervois, for kind of the long term. Um, brand building, um, and reaching a younger generation.
SFD_039 -Marc: Yeah, so is it expensive then for these brands? I know you said you, you really scaled this thing [00:17:00] up, but, is it expensive for brands to build these 3D immersive environments?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: No, um, because we are, um, we are essentially a SaaS platform, so as, uh, as our software gets kind of reused across all of these different, um, experiences, we are not, while the design is always custom for the brand, the tech capabilities are reused and that's why it's a more scalable model and it's much cheaper than, you know, let's say, designing something like very custom and creating.
Um, building it out all from scratch. So it's, it's quite reasonable in the scheme of marketing campaign budgets for these brands.
SFD_039 -Marc: Yeah, I see. That's interesting. So beyond this, like what you're talking about is like you, you go into an environment, I see the product in a way that's three dimensional from, from the top, from the sides, from the bottom, from the inside to the exterior. Um, the storytelling is richer. It's a lot better than what's happening with [00:18:00] regards to web.
Let's say Web 2, or the typical digital web experience if I'm interacting with a luxury brand or a contemporary designer brand. Um, but what also is beneficial to the brands as it relates to, um, transacting business specifically? Like, can, can I purchase the product in one of these immersive environments?
Does the product look exactly like it would look in store?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Yes, um, so, yeah, definitely you can, um, purchase the products through these environments. Like, we have full e-commerce integration, so you can see all of the details of the product, um, you can actually add the product to your cart, um, and, you know, build your cart as you go through the virtual store.
So, yeah, it is definitely Um, while you can use it purely for, um, let's say a brand awareness objective, and that's what some of our customers do, but ultimately, for most customers, there is a tie in to the actual purchase, right, from within this experience as well. And, [00:19:00] um, yeah, I would say, you know, for, um, for these brands, they can, beyond the purchase, though, there is a lot of additional, um, Storytelling that they can unlock through different mechanisms, um, including gamification, um, you know, avatars and, you know, we can talk about all of that.
And then the other point I would make is that, It's not just about like being able to see a product from all three dimensions and seeing it from all sides. That's definitely one part of it. But for us, it's about immersing the customer in the brand's world. So for example, like we, um, worked with, um, J. Crew and they created, um, a summer beach house that's like, um, in the Hamptons and you can go through different rooms of the house.
Um, and you can actually look at their, um, it was their 40th anniversary last year, so you can look at their catalogue covers from 40 years and, you know, learn about the trends through the different decades, and you can play this game and if you Uh, you [00:20:00] know, complete the game. You get access to the secret lighthouse.
So yes, the products are, you know, all throughout this experience, but it's about so much more than that. And it's really about immersing the customer in a full, know, 3d visual, um, environment, like similar to. Um, like similar to a AAA game, but essentially, you know, fully photorealistic, completely designed to how the brand wants, and then the brand can, you know, change it.
So that was the summer experience. And then for winter, JCREW created a ski chalet and it's this beautiful, like you you land on in this like snowy mountain and you go on this jeep and there there's like a men's chalet and a women's chalet and there's like fire burning and crackling and there's spatial audio audio so it's like yeah it's a whole whole experience and the products are a part of it but that's really what immerses, customers and, makes everything more memorable.
SFD_039 -Marc: So, it's interesting when you mention memorability. I recently read a Stanford study that showed immersive [00:21:00] environments increase memorability for the participants by, as much as 75 to 80 percent versus a brand speaking at that consumer or a consumer reading an ad campaign in a magazine or something.
so that's, you know, that's really very interesting to me. that definitely moves the needle and creates value from a marketing perspective. But let's talk about staying on focused on the value to the brand itself. Let's talk about, um, how long these consumers then spend in these immersive environments.
Like right now, I know from my agency's perspective, it's great if we could get, some of the fans or a new consumer into a YouTube video. But I feel like what you're doing is feeding It's far superior than a YouTube video. How long do consumers spend in these immersive environments? And then what other values from a marketing perspective, specifically, are brands, um, having as a result of, of consumers spending time in these environments?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: So yeah, in terms of time, typically, um, so these virtual [00:22:00] experiences and virtual stores, they live as a page on today. They live as a page on the brand's e-commerce site. Of course, that page is super rich and it could be an entire house or an entire chalet that you can go around. But essentially, people are spending two times the amount.
of time on that one page, which is the virtual experience than on all the other pages of the e-commerce site-combined. So that's kind of average across all of our customers. So yeah, it's Compared to going to a regular sort of landing page, um, on the site, like it's just a totally, um, different experience in terms of other, and, and that also varies a lot by the way.
So in some particular categories like toys. Um, we even have a customer where the time is 1000 higher on the virtual store page versus on all the, uh, on the rest of the e-com site. and then, yeah, to your question of other, um, kind of marketing values that the brand is seeing. [00:23:00] So, um, the first would be, uh, beyond spending time, we also want people to interact.
So, we look at interaction rates. Um, and those are typically in the 80 percent range, um, which is very high. And so, um, and the number of interactions varies a lot by the experience because it also depends on how extensive the experience is. For example, if it's one room versus five rooms and I'm saying rooms, but it could be any sort of environment, but the more there is to do, the more people will do essentially.
and then of course we are also looking at, um, are people-coming back? And as a result of spending time in the virtual experience, are they also actually then coming back more to the e-com site or purchasing there more or spending time there more? So it's really kind of uplifting. Um, and typically we do see that.
So it's really uplifting the entire, um, kind of digital presence. And then this last part, we don't have like data to [00:24:00] verify in terms of our people, then going more into retail stores. As a result of having, um, looked at a virtual experience, but in more of like a qualitative survey with, um, our, uh, you know, with US kind of retailers and decision makers who have implemented virtual stores, they do see, say that they see an impact on, um, retail traffic as well.
So
SFD_039 -Marc: So Neha, how much money, or what percentage of a
a CMO's
budget should be allocated towards building out these space, these digital spaces now?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Yeah, that's a great question. Um, I would say, you know, it doesn't need to be a huge budget at this time, like, you know, 1 or less just for building it.
But then what, where it needs to go more is into marketing the experience too. So just because you build it doesn't mean people will come like with anything else. So, um, sometimes the challenge that we have is like Um, you know, we'll be working [00:25:00] with a particular, like let's say the creative team at the brand and we'll create this amazing experience.
But then it's not really promoted on social or it's not promoted on the website. So people are not gonna like know that it exists. But the most successful experiences are those that brands are marketing on a cross channel basis. Um, and really thinking through the strategy of, um, how. You know, they're going to promote it from, to their existing customers through email and SMS, um, social media, of course, having a place for it on the site nav so people can find it.
And we even have customers that promote it, um, through QR codes, um, you know, on product packaging sometimes, sometimes on outdoor advertising. Um, and the more you can kind of create these cross, um, connections. Ultimately we see better results, so in terms of budget I would think about like yeah, the build of the experience, but then more on the marketing.
SFD_039 -Marc: So it's interesting. Let's say we have a CMO who's, you know, [00:26:00] fantastic at marketing. She's firing on all cylinders across owned, earned, and paid media. She's built this incredible, um, immersive, um, space. environment for the brand. And the product is just like sparkling and shining and totally luxurious.
Another area of friction might be consumers and, um, you know how they are. Sometimes they're scared of new technology. Um, maybe they think it would be-complicated to get into that new environment, into that new space. So how seamless is it for a consumer that's never done any of this before? you know, might be a little intimidated.
How, how does she get into it?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: So, yeah, first of all, like the one thing we have seen from our data is that in the marketing assets that lead up to this experience, you should be very clear as to what it is and how to navigate through it. Cause sometimes, you know, we, if we, if a brand just puts up like a static image of the virtual store on social media, or even sometimes of just the [00:27:00] campaign or a product, and then you suddenly land in this experience and it's totally different from what you expected, uh, that people bounce, right?
So, um, what we do is, and actually our platform generates these sort of like fly through videos, basically, so you can get a sense like, okay, this is actually a space that I'm supposed to Navigate through. And if that is the asset through which you are driving traffic, it just has much better results in terms of people understanding how to use it.
Of course, once they get there, we have, you know, instructions and all of that. But overall, um, it's intuitive to many people, again, because of that gaming aspect. Like the interaction is actually very similar to, um, how you navigate through a game. and even like to some of the, you know, luxury brands that we work with that typically might have an older audience.
they have done really well too because they create virtual experiences that are more realistic. Um, [00:28:00] so trying to, you know, emulate their retail stores, but now you can get that experience on your phone. And ultimately, you know, how to move around a retail store. So it's pretty. And all of it, by the way, is just, you know, you just click a link, it opens within Instagram in our browser, in your email browser.
So it's, it's really, you know, easy to access and that's one of the main things that we work on is like how easy is it to access, how fast is it to load, because we don't, you know, You know, if it's going to take like 10 seconds, people are just going to leave. Um, so yeah, all of those are kind of aspects of the technology, but the marketing does matter in how the, how you message people going into this experience.
SFD_039 -Marc: So visually speaking, like, let's say I, I jump into one of the immersive environments. I'd want it to be a better brand. Like which is the most luxurious brand that you've built so far, would you say?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Oh, I mean, we have a lot, so it would be hard
SFD_039 -Marc: give me one.
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: uh, let's say Dior.
SFD_039 -Marc: Okay. So I go into Dior and I want to dress [00:29:00] head to toe in Dior when I'm in that environment.
Can I wear digital assets from the current seasons collection while I'm checking out the store?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Yeah, that is an option. So we have, um, options for avatar, like basically you browsing the experience and as an avatar, however, it's
SFD_039 -Marc: decked in Dior.
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: yeah. Uh, uh, so yeah, you can, um, you can customize your avatars outfit, obviously the look and feel, and then you can kind of walk around very similar to a game.
Um, through the experience. I would say right now in terms of the technology, when, when the experience is with an avatar, it cannot look 100 percent photorealistic as we can make it look, basically when it's non real time 3D. So we have some brands that use avatars, but a lot of them like don't use it yet because again, our experiences are web based, super easy to access.
Um, so it just depends on the goal. Um, if the goal is more, um, like social, [00:30:00] then brands actually use, um, use avatars because you can also actually invite your friends and shop together in these experiences or they can have events, um, and people can attend as their avatars, and then for brands where, like, the look and feel being very, very photorealistic is important.
we are not there yet. I'm sure within the next. Next couple of years, mobile GPUs will be powerful enough that we will be able to render like-completely photorealistic real time 3D.
SFD_039 -Marc: That's pretty cool. That's really amazing. So do brands like Dior sell the digital assets too, or is it just the physical assets that's that are available? Um, the physical items that are available in the Dior shop?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Yeah, so our platform has the ability to do both, but so far, like pretty much all of our customers have used it to sell physical items only, except like we also create experiences for Roblox, because that is also fundamentally a 3D platform and there it is. [00:31:00] Only digital, um, items for your avatars at the moment.
so yeah, if brands are interested in selling more, um, digital versions of their, and as you know, like the challenge with the digital versions of like, say clothing today is like, there is no one standard, like, where would you wear it? because every platform has its own, yeah, exactly. Every platform has their own system.
SFD_039 -Marc: But what about the perceived value of a digital asset, right? Like, does our generation and older understand the importance of a digital asset? Like a, you know, someone that's a Gen Z or a Gen Alpha? Like, is that part of the problem there too? Is it only a matter of time?
Like, I think I
SFD_039 -Marc: read recently that Walmart is launching digital wearables, digital assets, I think in Roblox, um, with celebrities even and they're ramping that business up. So is it just a matter of time until these digital wearables, these digital assets are available in these obsessed [00:32:00] spaces?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Yeah, I think so. And I think in, in, in general too, because already like on Roblox, which is, you know, purely digital assets, um, players are spending more than 1 billion a quarter on purchasing.
Purchasing digital assets for their avatars, right? So to your first part of the question in terms of whether it will I don't know if it will ever become as important to our generation as it is to Gen Z and Gen Alpha. That I don't know. But definitely for Gen Z and Gen Alpha because they are spending so much time on these kind of large scale social platforms like Roblox and Fortnite where what they wear on these platforms is almost as important as what they wear in real life.
that, that's when the digital items become, become really important. So, um, yeah, a lot of brands have, um, entered like Roblox for that reason. Um, and they're able to, you know, sell, but also get like, just much more creative with their product, right? Because you're not, restricted by making things in real [00:33:00] life and, um, you can express the brand in all kinds of new ways.
SFD_039 -Marc: But do those become real, uh, streams of revenue for brands in Roblox? And I know we're like veering off of obsessed for a second. I'll bring us right back there in a second. But like, um, can brands make money by selling digital wearables, digital assets in a Roblox setting?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: I don't know if there's any like publicly available numbers that brands have shared in terms of how much overall they are made.
There's certainly on Roblox, there's certainly, you know, when Gucci launched they were the first brand to really enter Roblox. Yeah, and the famous, yeah, but the famous story from that is how like the digital version of the bag sold for more than the bag, physical bag like retails for. So yeah, so I think if, you know, it's going to get there, if, if not, if it's not there already where brands can make significant revenue.
And also. Note that, you know, because it's digital only, [00:34:00] their production costs are much lower, so overall it will be, like, more profitable.
SFD_039 -Marc: So which brands, um, do you think are making a mistake by going into a public forum like Roblox? Like, I think that the idea of having a self contained forum controlled environment built with obsess is very important, especially for a luxury brand that doesn't want to give the keys to its intellectual property kingdom into the public, like a Roblox type of space.
am I, am I right? Is that the value for brands to, to kind of plug this into their own platform versus going into like a third, third party environment, like a Roblox?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: I would say that both are important. So it's the same as, you know, having a presence on social media, but also having your own website, right?
Like you need. so I really compare like gaming platforms now to social media because first of all like, you know, 70 million daily active users spending an average of [00:35:00] 2.6 hours a day on Roblox. So it's more than the, in some cases, the-combined amount of time on all social media platforms. So, it's important to have a presence there because of the audience and the massive audience and the reach you can have.
SFD_039 -Marc: I agree.
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: The same reason why you want to have a D2C e-commerce is because you want to have a direct relationship with the customer. You want to get the data and you're not going to get that from Roblox. So Roblox is really great for the reach, um, you know, brand awareness. It's the digital kind of product revenue, um, at the moment.
And then having an immersive experience, by the way, they can also mirror each other. Um, we believe that, you know, brands shouldn't have to reinvent their kind of virtual identity on every platform. So once you basically know like, this is what my virtual presence looks like, like it can be released on Roblox, it can be released on your site.
It could be released on an Apple Vision [00:36:00] Pro. It could be released on Fortnite in the future. Um, so yeah, on your own side, the advantages are A, yes, you get to fully kind of control the look and feel, and it can be much more, um, uh, much more photorealistic, um, just higher kind of resolution than what Roblox offers today.
But also, and more importantly, like you are still having that direct connection with the customer. Um, you're getting, um, the data from the customer. Um, and that's really important in addition to, of course, like the broad reach.
SFD_039 -Marc: So the first party data thing, I think, is very interesting and really critical for marketers, again, through the CMO lens, um, there are so many limitations in the pipeline right now that are going to stop third party data from being accessible, to brands. So how is it that, in this type of experience, marketers can access first party data?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: you mean on Immersive Experiences on their website? Yeah. Yeah. yeah, because essentially, like for us, like all the data that we are collecting is owned by the brand, and the experience lives as part [00:37:00] of their website.
So it lives on their domain, it's integrated into their e-commerce system and into their analytics system.
SFD_039 -Marc: What kind of data do you capture?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: So, every interaction that the user does within the virtual experience. So, if you are, you know, going to a room, you're clicking on a product, you're watching a video, you're playing a game.
So, all of that is captured and, um, you can, even visualize it on heat maps. So, which section of the store is getting the most traffic. Uh, how much time are people spending? And because it's all digital, the beauty is that, you know, you can just drag and drop and change things around. So if there's a product you really want to promote, but people are not going to that section, you can move it forward, or you can add like a whole new section because it's all digital, doesn't cost you, uh, you know, there's no real estate costs.
so yeah, the data, you know, when we launched with the brand. And can start getting the data is really the starting point, right? So yes, we may build this very beautiful, you know, branded experience, but then in terms of optimizing it and optimizing the layout, [00:38:00] optimizing the product, merchandising, that all happens once we start getting, um, the data and the changes can be made like really quickly based on that.
SFD_039 -Marc: Yeah, that's great. I mean, fashion brands have done a good job, I think, so far in, um, embracing emerging technology and creating, these modern day experiences for their consumer, not just like within the obsessed capabilities, but beyond. I'm sure you would agree, like Aloe, Ralph Lauren, Gucci, you mentioned earlier, Nike.
in your opinion, which luxury brands have really done the most impressive and innovative things? let's say maybe within the Obsessed platform, but you know, feel free to go beyond that. Where would you say is the North Star, for luxury brands, uh, as it relates to embracing emerging technology?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Yeah, I would say in terms of, um, the OBSASS platform and our customers, um, the most [00:39:00] innovative customers we have had, and this is not a brand, but a luxury retailer, MyTheresa. And in terms of brands, like some of the beauty brands like Charlotte Tilbury have been the most kind of innovative in utilizing all of the new capabilities and seeing what works with their audience.
And then also Ralph Lauren, because we, they have done a lot on our platform and they have also, Embraced, you know, many other, um, kind of immersive 3D and gaming platforms as well. yeah, and I think beyond, uh, beyond kind of our brands that we work with, um, Gucci is definitely, you know, Gucci and Nike are the brands to watch in terms of, um, you know, having dedicated teams for, this whole, you know, spatial, 3D, immersive, um, area and having like really successful experiences on multiple, um, platforms.
SFD_039 -Marc: Now, will Obsess take its technology beyond the four corners of mobile or a laptop [00:40:00] or a desktop or an iPad? Is it only a matter of time until that digital immersive 3D experience-comes to life in, let's say, like even a physical brick and mortar store?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Yeah, actually, we have been having some recent conversations about, yeah, bringing the immersive experiences to life on touchscreens in retail stores.
So it's definitely a possibility. And then the other sort of medium or device for us is Sort of going back to the, um, to the headsets, which, which is where we had started, but it was too early at that time. Um, and now it's, you know, um, obviously with Apple releasing, uh, Vision Pro this year was a huge kind of moment in this industry that we had been waiting for, for a long time.
And, uh, we released several experiences on Apple Vision Pro. We also, recently have released experiences on Oculus MetaQuest. And with those devices, you know, when they gain more adoption. It will just be like, you know, now you're like actually inside [00:41:00] of these environments versus looking at it, you know, on a screen in front of you.
So it's, it's a huge, uh, makes a huge difference. actually today there's a article on PopSugar about, um, some of the shopping experiences on Apple Vision Pro, including J. Crew and Alloyoga and Maitriza that we have created. for whoever has access to the device, like, checking them out is, you know, great.
Um, you know, really kind of showing what the next, um, next generation of shopping and brand experiences can look
SFD_039 -Marc: Yeah. I mean, you know, it's funny you mentioned Oculus back, um, pre pandemic. I remember the Oculus team coming to New York City and meeting with me, for Karl Lagerfeld, who, you know, was a client at the time, and we were going to build out a very interesting, VR experience with Oculus for Karl. it never came to life.
And I, I think that, um, you know, as you would admit, the, the Oculus. was limiting in that it was heavy, it wasn't so fashionable, it wasn't very comfortable. Now, [00:42:00] fast forward a few years and look at, you know, the Vision Pro. I think although the technology and the user experience is enhanced for sure, and maybe in certain ways, ways a little bit more intuitive because it fits into the, you know, Apple's overall operating system.
perhaps it still has its limitations with regards to physical design. So when will we, Neha, get to the point where the physical tools that enhance these immersive experiences are going to just be easier for the consumer, where it's going to become as simple as putting on a light, you know, a light framed eyeglass or a sunglass?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: I mean, I can't say for sure or predict the future, but I would say it's at least five years away. Um, and that mobile is going to be our primary, um, kind of medium, at least for the next 10 years. but you can, you have, you know, seen the progress already for the last five years. To your point, though, you know, pre COVID, the Oculus headsets were much heavier and all of that.
But the latest ones like MetaQuest 3. [00:43:00] Yeah, so light, um, you know, much better kind of form factor. So it's, you know, it's already kind of improving. and there's always the classic debate about the chicken and egg of the content versus the, you know, versus the device. Like, is it that Which do you
SFD_039 -Marc: think is more important, the content or the
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: device?
Um, I believe it's the form factor of the device because, um, I think, like, to your point, when it gets, looks like a pair of glasses that you can just easily put on, that's when, you know Will be very easy. And that's when like anyone who wants to create content, uh, for this would be like inclined to do that as well.
and yeah, so I think there's still use cases for these devices today. And we are exploring, um, some very kind of interesting ones, especially in a, more kind of design, like to, to actually do the design, um, to do merchandising, um, some more kind of internal collaborative, um, use cases. Um, and then also, um, some in store kind of, you know, activation use cases for these devices [00:44:00] while the, you know, user adoption at home is still low.
but I think there can be, you know, some very, very interesting experiences that you can have talking about memorability that are so memorable through these devices more than, you know, anything else.
SFD_039 -Marc: Neha, you mentioned the magic of Taylor Swift earlier, um, and how she attracted, I think, more audience, um, more digital foot traffic to your platform than any other brand before. I think the, experience between a megastar like Taylor Swift or Beyonce, Their fan base or their super fan base and brands is ripe for disruption.
I know that you and I spoke about how committed we are as an agency in building these super fan verticals through the use of emerging technology. I'm curious in, in your opinion, how will these immersive experiences totally transform the super fan experience with their, their star, with their, you know, with their Taylor [00:45:00] Swift?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Yeah, absolutely. I think it just helps scale Taylor Swift or scale any other star like so much more versus, you know, just seeing her on a screen or seeing her on a stage like really far, far away. In a concert, I think the power of immersive technology is that every fan can potentially feel like, you know, she's in your living room and doing a concert for you and she only has to like record it once, right?
And also just like getting close to everything for the superfan, like everything around the star, right? Like their lifestyle, what they're wearing, where, you know, where they're going and all of that. Like if you can actually experience all of that much more immersively. And. Feel like you're, you know, you're, you're in her group and going around with her.
I think that could be, um, like super, super cool. So I think, um, we have already seen, you know, some of the virtual concerts on fortnight, um, and so on that have attracted like massive, um, audiences. [00:46:00] Yeah. It was
SFD_039 -Marc: like when, even when the technology visually was crude to a certain extent, right? Only three, four years ago, but yet compared to, you know, the word you keep using, photorealistic. I mean, we weren't even there when Travis launched that.
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Yeah. And so I think it's going to be, you know, across all of these different, um, activities that we do online, including entertainment, all of them, you know, we are focused on shopping, but yeah, entertainment, you know, travel, all of these will be massively enhanced, um, as this technology becomes more-common.
SFD_039 -Marc: I think it's going to stretch the relationship between the consumer and the, um, you know, the superfan specifically and the artist. Uh, right now it's very transactional. If I want to go to a concert, I buy the ticket, I go to the concert, I see my, my, um, artist that I love and then I go home. But I think the immersive experience with emerging technologies, including spatial computing, are going to provide brands with the opportunity to [00:47:00] Interact with both the artist and the superfan way in advance of, um, the concert, right?
Offering digital assets, digital merchandise. And then at the concert itself, the experience could become a lot more than just that of what happens in your seat. Like perhaps there are portals and new environments that are digitally accessible that then unlock access to physical, um, merchandise or backstage events.
and then again, after the concert, going back into the brand store, is there anything like that that you think is imminent?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: I love that vision. Um, I feel like most of it should be possible from a technology standpoint today already. in terms of what is imminent. Yeah, I feel like it is imminent.
I think we're starting to see, you know, the You know, again, in these gaming platforms, especially like Fortnite, we are starting to see the beginnings of that. And there was a lot of digital merge sold around all of the virtual [00:48:00] concerts in these, in these platforms. I haven't quite seen yet, um, like a brand plus an artist, um, experience, but,
SFD_039 -Marc: I'm excited
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: you're, uh, you're the one who can create it.
SFD_039 -Marc: I want to, I want to. Now, what about, um, the fact that, as a product person, you understand, I'm not discounting your work at all, but you understand that CMOs can really, really get a ton of value here, and it's not that complicated, but yet, it seems like there's a hurdle every day, there's an educational curve between you as an innovator, entrepreneur, um, Um, as a, as a, um, inventor where you need to teach CMOs how easy it is to get involved in these 3D immersive environments.
So if you're going to like look at the CMOs all over the world and explain to them how simple it is to get involved, what would you tell them today?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Yeah, I would say like the, the reason to do it is to create the emotional connection, uh, with your customer [00:49:00] digitally. That's not possible today. And in terms of getting started, it's really thinking about, you know, what you would want a virtual environment for your brand, or even just thinking about a particular campaign you have-coming up or a particular product launch you have-coming up and getting started with that before.
Then scaling it to across all of the product lines or across all of the seasons. And, you know, we can launch, we have launched experiences in as little as six weeks from when, you know, we start working with the brand to launch. so it's all really, really easy.
SFD_039 -Marc: Now, what if the CFO was sitting next to that CMO and said, whoa, whoa, whoa, I understand it's simple, but it's expensive and we're not going to see any return on our investment. How would you respond to that?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Yeah, I would say it's not expensive, but also, yeah, there is a return on investment because we can track all of the, you know, traffic metrics, we can obviously customer engagement metrics, but then it is tied [00:50:00] directly into sales, so we can actually track like how many people purchased when they visited the virtual store, ideally how many people purchased after they visited the virtual store as well, so all of it is, um, things that you can get data back on.
And we have a lot of case studies that show, um, you know, improvements and increase in conversion rate, increase in average order value. Um,
SFD_039 -Marc: so last thing, you know, I've fired away, we've gone pretty wide here with our discussion, but every single guest I have. um, participates at the end in finishing a sentence that I begin with the name of our show, Some Future Day.
So, Neha, are you game for this?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Sure.
SFD_039 -Marc: All right, good, good. So in some future day, digital shopping will be entirely different for the next generation because.
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: Because it will be-completely about the brand experience and the story more than just the product itself.
SFD_039 -Marc: Neha, [00:51:00] congratulations with, you know, being such a visionary and so important, not just on the tech side, but on the retail side. It's incredible what you've built with Obsess. Thank you so much for joining me today. Is there anything else that you'd like to add or anything that you feel that's important that we didn't cover?
SFD_039 -Neha Singh: no, thank you so much for having me and yeah, I would say, you know, this space is evolving very rapidly and because of the, And which we didn't really speak about, but you know, the GPU advancements, like everything is just going to get so much more beautiful and so much, um, you know, faster.
So, yeah, so keep, um, keep an eye out.
[00:52:00]