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Differentiate, collaborate, and grow faster.
Show Notes:
What makes one Microsoft partner stand out when everyone sells the same technology? Anthony Carrano and Rudy Rodriguez sit down with Erica Hakonson, CEO of Maven Collective Marketing, to discuss how Microsoft partners can build stronger brands, create meaningful differentiation, leverage AI responsibly, and develop partnerships that drive sustainable business growth. Whether you're an emerging partner or an established Microsoft practice, this episode delivers practical strategies you can apply immediately.
Top 5 Intriguing Takeaways for IAMCP Partners:
1. Customers buy outcomes, not technology.
1. Customers buy outcomes, not technology.
Partners that focus on business value instead of Microsoft products create stronger differentiation and avoid competing solely on price.
2. Alignment creates successful partnerships.
Shared goals, communication, and cultural fit matter just as much as technical expertise when working with customers and partners
3. Marketing should be measured like any other business investment.
Behavioral analytics, benchmarking, and continuous optimization allow partners to demonstrate measurable business impact.
4. AI is a multiplier, not a replacement.
4. AI is a multiplier, not a replacement.
Use AI to improve efficiency, but preserve authentic messaging and strategic thinking that differentiates your brand.
5. Your brand should evolve as your business evolves.
5. Your brand should evolve as your business evolves.
Many Microsoft partners outgrow their messaging without realizing it. Regularly revisiting positioning ensures your company reflects the value it delivers today—not five years ago.
Guest:
Erica Hakonson
LinkedIn: Erica Hakonson
CEO at Maven Collective Marketing: Maven Collective Marketing | Website
IAMCP Canada Chapter LinkedIn Page: IAMCP Canada | LinkedIn
IAMCP Canada Chapter| IAMCP | Website | IAMCP | Canada
Managing Partner at Dunamis Marketing
International Association of Microsoft Channel Partners:IAMCP | Website
Notable Quotes:
• "You aren't the technology you sell—you are the value you bring your clients."
• "If you're talking only about technology, you're selling the same thing as the Microsoft partner down the street."
• "Collaboration, communication, and shared vision are the core to our success."
• "Throwing AI on your website isn't a strategy."
• "If you're competing on technology alone, you're competing on cost—and that's a race to the bottom."
Chapters:
Time Chapter
00:00 Introduction: Why Differentiation Matters for Microsoft Partners
01:00 Meet Erica Hakonson and Maven Collective Marketing
03:00 Relaunching the IAMCP Canada Chapter
05:25 Award-Winning Customer Success Story
08:30 Why Collaboration Drives Better Marketing Results
10:55 Building Partnerships Through Alignment and Shared Vision
13:30 Lessons Learned from Difficult Client Relationships
17:00 Evaluating Customer Fit Before Engagement
22:20 Why Microsoft Partners Must Market Outcomes, Not Technology
27:10 Using Behavioral Analytics to Improve Marketing Performance
31:05 AI, Marketing, and the Future of the Microsoft Partner Ecosystem
35:00 Entrepreneurship, Growth, and Betting on Yourself
39:20 Measuring Success with Microsoft's Partner Benchmark Index
41:35 Resources, Community, and Final Advice
43:10 Closing Thoughts and Key Lessons for Microsoft Partners
Why Listen?
If you're a Microsoft partner trying to stand out in an increasingly crowded marketplace, this episode provides a practical framework for building a stronger brand, creating meaningful differentiation, leveraging AI strategically, and developing partnerships that accelerate long-term growth. Erica Hakonson shares real-world lessons from helping partners transform their go-to-market strategy and explains why the companies that win aren't necessarily those with the best technology, but those that communicate their value most effectively.
Creators and Guests
What is IAMCP Profiles in Partnership?
Microsoft partners share their tips, strategies, and experiences on how to grow their practices and collaborate on better customer solutions. Hosts Anthony Carrano and Rudy Rodriguez, founders of Dunamis Marketing, a tech B2B marketing agency with years of experience as IT entrepreneurs, bring you a series of success stories from Microsoft Partners working together. Whether you are new or experienced in the Microsoft ecosystem, you’ll learn from topics that will help you create more opportunities through partnering. Listen to Profiles in Partnership podcast today!
Hello, everyone, and welcome to IAMCP Profiles in Partnership, the podcast that showcases how Microsoft Partners and IAMCP members grow their businesses by collaborating with other members and partners. I'm your cohost Anthony Carrano. In each episode, we sit down with some of the most innovative and successful partners in the Microsoft ecosystem to uncover how they're scaling, differentiating and building trust driven partnerships that accelerate growth. The International Association of Microsoft Channel Partners or IAMCP is a global community where Microsoft partners connect, collaborate and grow together. Whether you're looking for new partnerships, new markets or new opportunities, IAMCP helps partners build stronger businesses through shared knowledge and meaningful relationships.
Anthony Carrano:Each episode features innovative leaders from across the Microsoft ecosystem, who share their stories, lessons learned, and practical strategies for creating customer value and accelerating growth. But before we get started, I'd like you to think about two questions. Number one, what truly differentiates your company from every other Microsoft partner selling the same technology? And two, if your marketing disappeared tomorrow, would your customers still understand the unique value only your team can deliver? Well, today's guest has spent more than a decade helping Microsoft partners answer exactly those questions.
Anthony Carrano:Joining us is Erica Hakonson, CEO of Maven Collective Marketing, a specialized award winning agency dedicated exclusively to helping Microsoft partners strengthen their go to market strategy, elevate their brand and accelerate growth. Erica is also a passionate leader within the IAMCP community, helping relaunch the IAMCP candidate chapter while continuing to empower partners across the ecosystem. In this conversation, Erica shares why the strongest partner relationships begin with alignment, not transactions, how partners can build a differentiated brand in an AI driven marketplace, and why communicating business outcomes, not just technology, is becoming the biggest competitive advantage Microsoft partners have today. Let's get started.
Anthony Carrano:Well, Erica, welcome to the podcast. We're so glad to have you.
Erica Hakonson:Thank you so much. Thanks for having me here. I'm excited to be here.
Anthony Carrano:Well, excellent. Let's jump right in. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, and and your company?
Erica Hakonson:So, yeah, I'm Erica. I'm the founder and CEO of Maven Collective Marketing. We have been in the Microsoft partner space since 2012, myself actually much longer. I'm not gonna let you guess my age, I used to work at Microsoft and and that's what brought me into the Microsoft partner ecosystem and kinda made me fell in love with this very challenging and complex world of Microsoft community and Microsoft partnership. And then led me here today to where I get to be on the podcast doing IAMCP and Profile with you two so thanks for having me.
Anthony Carrano:Excellent. Now I know, you know, marketing, you know, is, as you know, covers a lot of ground. Maybe, just for our audience who's listening, maybe kinda, you know, some share a little bit more specific areas of marketing that Maven tends to focus on?
Erica Hakonson:Yeah, absolutely. Like, I love that we're in the same space and yet we don't do the exact same thing. So Maven Collective is really focused on Microsoft partners, go to market strategy, both into Microsoft. So we spend a lot of time with partners and partner center on their business profile and the marketplace listings, choosing to be transactable, co sell ready, all of those pieces, figuring out co op and incentives and all of those change every year. I spent a lot of time in that co op guide and then out to market as well.
Erica Hakonson:So creating demand, developing market, all of those pieces anywhere from, you know, actually brand positioning and to go to market, really traditional things like website launches, somewhat new things like answer engine optimization, paid media, social media, media relations, lots of content, graphic design and development of like different mediums of content. This year has been really fun because we've experimented a lot with AI generation, both to compliment what we're already building and to supplement areas where our client maybe doesn't have the bandwidth to kind of get things to market as fast. So that's been a real interesting venture this year. So learning from failing, of tools that you expect to work certain ways and work other ways. But yeah, it's pretty vast, but we're solely focused on Microsoft Partners. And so we're kind of A to Zed for them.
Anthony Carrano:Definitely can appreciate that as we experienced a lot of those same things. But before we get into your story, which you were, you know, the winner for Global in Americas, so really excited for you to kind of unpack that for our audience. I heard a little bit about the relaunch of the IAMCP Canadian chapter. So tell us a little bit more about what's going on.
Erica Hakonson:Very excited about this. I know those of us above the 49th Parallel have been waiting for this day to arise. I'm happy to be a part of it. I'm happy to have a great team coast to coast helping with this relaunch and of course support of the Americas board has been really helpful. So we relaunched the beginning of this year, 2026, and we're hosting events across, well, across all of Canada.
Erica Hakonson:So we're getting in person events in Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary. We have a Jays game coming up. So we're really excited to get partners reengaged and working with each other in partnership, really networking across this vast ecosystem and hoping to add some events in Montreal and Edmonton and other places as we get more partners coming on board from those regions as well. Very excited. All Canadian partners listening to your podcast, please come check it out and join us.
Anthony Carrano:Absolutely.
Erica Hakonson:I'll definitely provide you the link so you can see what their schedule looks like this year.
Anthony Carrano:Absolutely. And there is, the Canadian chapter does have its own LinkedIn page. Right?
Erica Hakonson:We do. We have our LinkedIn page. We have our own, calendar of events. Have sponsorship available. We'd love to have more sponsors. I think I plugged everything. There we go.
Anthony Carrano:That's it. That's it. And we'll have all that and more in the show notes. And so one other just quick little final question about, you know, the Canadian chapter before we jump into the story. So, obviously, you're covering, like you said, a vast geographic area.
Anthony Carrano:So are you guys rotating your in person events throughout the country?
Erica Hakonson:Exactly, Anthony. Yeah. Exactly. So we're we're getting everyone the ability to meet and network in person while still being able to attend virtually. So, you our next chapter meeting coming up is in Toronto.
Erica Hakonson:I myself is in Vancouver, I'd love to be there in person but I can't. So I'll be able to join via Teams while the Toronto chapter or the Toronto meeting will happen in person at the Microsoft office with lunch and lots of networking time. So we'll still allow everyone to attend from across the country, but I'm really looking forward to going to the Jays game in person. So I will be doing some traveling to make sure that I get to connect with everyone across the Canadian chapter.
Anthony Carrano:Well, in the end, those listening, make sure you check out the IAMCP calendar as well as the IAMCP Canadian Canada LinkedIn page. Alright, Rudy, let's get into the story, man.
Rudy Rodriguez:Well, Erica, congratulations on your advisory award. That was a great achievement.
Erica Hakonson:You so much.
Rudy Rodriguez:So in this story that we're about to showcase, can you tell us a little bit about the client? You don't have to share a name or an industry or say, but can you tell us about the challenges this company was facing and how you came about and helped them and, you know, what led to your award?
Erica Hakonson:Yeah, I appreciate that. So this client was and is a Modern Work Partner. They recognized that they had some challenges with really differentiating themselves in the market and then also go to market activities. In the past, they had worked with other agencies, they had brought some staff in house to take care of marketing for them and they just kind of couldn't crack the nut of of how to get into the market with a different message that really resonated with their target audience and then how to stay consistent in driving demand. What was great is when we came in, they had a very solid sales team.
Erica Hakonson:Like it was evident that if you could put some great leads in their lap, that sales team could close. And so that was this distinct advantage that we really wanted to take it, take advantage of. We started with just doing an audit of their landscape, figuring out what was working for them and what could they be doing a little bit better. And then what other channels could they be turning on? We know that websites aren't the only thing being used by the different demographic of buyers today.
Erica Hakonson:You know, some generations would look at the corporate website as a last resort, others that's the first place they go so that that channel mix that like being in the right place at the right time was something that they hadn't quite nailed. What was great was they're really open to thinking about their brand in a different way, understanding the value they could bring to clients in a different way which allowed us to go interview their clients and start to talk about the value and the outcomes they were bringing, not just the technology they were working on. So what ultimately led to the numbers that we were able to achieve was them believing that they were providing extra value beyond the technology, beyond being a modern work partner. They were really providing a service that transformed and changed and elevated people's workplaces. And we were able to put that into their messaging, track that with their case studies and metrics, and then really go to market with a strong, very differentiated approach to how companies are talking about partnering with institutions and really building up their workplace maturity and building up their ability to collaborate and making work just a lot easier and more enjoyable through enablement of elevating workplace technologies.
Erica Hakonson:So that was the message and then it was really just getting it in the right places and the right spaces so that we could drive those leads. And like I said, hand it off to a very capable sales team that was able to bring them in with solid messaging and solid results where they could, you know, show this is exactly what we specialize in, bring us in and let us do this for you.
Rudy Rodriguez:You mentioned the beautiful word collaborate. That's always a challenge working with folks, right?
Rudy Rodriguez:So can you tell us a little bit about what the collaboration process looked like? You know, how you worked with your client to ensure that there was alignment as well as success that that you achieved?
Erica Hakonson:Yeah, absolutely. So I know a lot of different marketing agencies kind of have these boxes and bundles that you can kind of pick up and throw anywhere. And that works from a scalability perspective. You know you can have two blogs and two social media and a couple of email and that's great. You know exactly what you're gonna get.
Erica Hakonson:The problem is that not every partner can use that effectively depending on where they're at with their maturity, depending on where at with their like email contact database. There's lots of different factors on whether that box will work for them. So in our world, we are very one to one engagement with our partners. We got to meet them where they're starting, help them understand what is working and what isn't, and then design how to help them grow based on where they're at from the day that we meet them. For some it's like tuning in and tuning up and away we go we can create success pretty quickly.
Erica Hakonson:For others it's like really foundation building and this was one of them. Was like we don't have a distinct message when we talk about SharePoint. Well the guy down the street could talk about SharePoint. What are you selling and who can sell it for cheaper is ultimately where we're, when we're just talking about technology. So we really come in and, and like I say, spend a lot of time getting to know them, spend a lot of time getting to know what they're doing, what's working, what isn't being able to kind of adjust or even rebuild the channels that aren't working for them so that when we do have the right message and we can go to market, we're able to meet them where they are and start to build up those channels based on where they have had previous success and where we can build them new success.
Erica Hakonson:But certainly collaboration and having that understanding and having that open line of communication and metrics and being able to meet consistently and talk through strategy is the core to our success with our clients. Without that, if we were just spitting things at them and telling them to pick it up and go with it, I don't think we could achieve what we achieved in this scenario.
Anthony Carrano:Let's talk a little bit about like, what's a pivotal moment in your journey that shaped how you approach partnerships today? And how would things look different, like if that moment hadn't happened?
Erica Hakonson:It's a good question. Would say I've had more than one in my career of a pivotal moment of, and I think it's partnerships I've had, it's partnerships I've helped. And when I have seen partnerships fall apart, it's often that lack of communication or lack of shared vision, it's often, you know, one person is running in one direction, but not quite bringing the other person along. And again, kind of success for us at Maven is really being aligned and a team with our clients so that we can share that vision, those growth plans, and then help them build that success. The clients that we haven't been successful with, and I'm sure you probably could name your handful as well, those that kind of keep us, us at arm's reach, you know, treat us like a pen for hire, don't understand how much strategy and collaboration is required to build that growth and success.
Erica Hakonson:I will say it's unique to the technology industry how much people with a very tech analytical brain think very little about the go to market strategy. It's almost like, okay, the product's totally built and for some reason we don't have any customers. And you're like, is it on your website? Oh, it's not? Like, okay. Well, have
Anthony Carrano:You mean just because they built it not everybody's coming? What?
Erica Hakonson:Yeah. Wait. Well, have you even emailed your current customers? What who are you bait in this with? You know, it's a it's a lot of things, like, as marketers, as communicators, as people that maybe just spend all of their time in collaboration and communication that seems so like native to the way that we operate.
Erica Hakonson:And so when we do end up in a situation with a client that doesn't have that communication as a strong point, it's a lot of like pulling it out of them to stay connected and aligned to make sure that we can help them grow. And those clients take a lot more effort. And I will say those are all for the clients that sometimes don't come around and we end up parting ways because we eventually know that we can't make them successful without that collaboration, communication, shared vision.
Anthony Carrano:Well, I know obviously, you know, in this story here, you guys had a lot of, you know, just immense success. And I know you've had success, many others, you know, successes. But if we can maybe piggyback a little bit on the the the last comment there about maybe share a time, not the customer's name, right, but maybe where it didn't go, you know, quite as planned and specifically like what you learned about resilience or leadership, you know, from that experience.
Erica Hakonson:One stage that I'm happy to be at as an organization is very early in this journey to entrepreneurship. I was super scrappy and just taking anything that we could get in the door, whether it was a good alignment or not, was, I was going to learn from the client, I was going to make a good successful client and it was just going to work. Of course with age and maturity and experience, you know there are just some clients that aren't going to actually work out with you. So I would say pivotal point or learning that I've done along the way is one on the way in of meeting potential partnerships. If it doesn't look like alignment is there and you know, we're a B Corp organization, we're B Corp certified.
Erica Hakonson:That means that we're a very purpose driven organization. We're not after profit, we're after purpose, we're after being a force for good. Sometimes that doesn't align with everyone we meet. You know, sometimes there's people that, you know, are rocket for revenue and it doesn't matter who's in their path and all of those different things. And if you can't get me 500 leads by tomorrow, then we're not going to be a good fit.
Erica Hakonson:I'm doing better at identifying those not good fits. My sales team is doing better at recognizing when we have that first conversation and if there's unrealistic expectations or there's not alignment and purpose and values and vision, you know, we know that there's another agency out there for them that's going to be a better alignment that's going to help them succeed or help them realign, whatever that looks like for them. So that's gotten better. I would say in the past, you know, we have run into those red flags, hair flaming, trying to make it work, ending up having to fire the client and everything feels bad. You know, it felt bad from the beginning.
Erica Hakonson:It felt bad while trying to communicate and collaborate with them. And then it ought to me felt bad that we had to part ways and we didn't meet the objectives that we've wanted. So in that, I would say we're just doing a much better job of finding and working with the clients that we know we can make successful because of our shared vision, purpose and alignment. And we are also helping others find other resources that we know we're not going to be aligned to work with moving forward.
Anthony Carrano:I want to kind of piggyback on that a little bit too, just, and obviously most of our listeners obviously are, you know, are tech companies as, you know, they're IAMCP Partners. What's maybe one or two questions or ways of thinking about, because this whole concept around aligning around purpose and vision and whatnot to, you know, to get good fit, is there a question maybe that they should ask or just a a principle that they need to keep in mind? How to get to that place, like, right out of like, during, like, during discovery? Does that make sense what I'm trying to ask?
Erica Hakonson:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you would be surprised how many tech companies just don't believe in marketing, and then they wanna go hire a marketing agency.
Anthony Carrano:Look. I'm sorry. If I could if I can maybe it's not even just about yeah. Not even just marketing, but advice for our listeners that, because obviously, you know, for just something that maybe they can take in applying to their business, because obviously, you you got recognized, know, with the B Corp certification, fantastic. So what's maybe a principle from that that they can apply in their business?
Anthony Carrano:So it's not necessarily looking for a marketing-
Erica Hakonson:Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I see what you're saying.
Erica Hakonson:When they're deciding who they can bring on board as a client. I understand what you're asking now. So I would say one of the questions that we asked early on is goals. Like, what is the goal that you have in mind for the outcome of us working together?
Erica Hakonson:And that usually helps raise a few other questions. But if the goal is pretty out to lunch, like if their expectations are not aligned with what you know this project can achieve or what you believe is achievable in that first year together, that's usually a really good first indicator to either dig in and understand, do they have some different expectations of milestones along the way? Did I understand this unrealistic expectation? Can they kind of dig in and see that? That's usually a good first indicator for us of being able to understand that.
Erica Hakonson:From a values perspective, you can find out a lot about a company about the way they show up online, in their own social media, and, often we'll sign up for communications from the company if we're gonna meet with them. And so you can, and any media, news, all of those things, and you can kind of get an idea. We just brought on a client in the last couple months, but, you know, when I met them, I was a little concerned about alignment and we were setting up some other meetings and I did a lot more research about the company itself. And I found that they were a company that really cared about their employees. They were a company that really cared about the impact they had on their community.
Erica Hakonson:And they're a company that was just tenaciously driven for delivering results to their clients. Like there was so much alignment in what I found when I was able to kind of go and look at the company in different ways. And since then, you know, they've come and asked if we would sponsor a golf tournament for one of the families of employees that are going through a health challenge and they wanna raise money for that. You know, they just continue to impress me with how grounded they are in their purpose, in their community impact and all of those pieces. And that's exactly who, you know, we care about and align with.
Erica Hakonson:Now, you know, that's a small example. A big example is, you know, we also partner with an organization that's nearly $1,000,000,000 in revenue. They're spread out all over North America. We work with probably 30 of the employees. There's, you know, closer to 14,000 employees.
Erica Hakonson:So we know a fraction. We know a fraction of who is there. What it continues to impress me though, of each time we meet someone new and maybe we've met more like, I don't know, fifty, sixty employees because we've done partner of the year award submissions. So maybe we talk to them once, but we don't work with them on a daily basis. It doesn't matter who I meet at that organization.
Erica Hakonson:They are pure excellence. Every single time I meet a new person there, is outstanding how much they show up prepared, obviously care about the client when we talk to them, obviously care about the outcomes for the company. They're really engaged with their employees, you know, other employees and colleagues on the call. They're highly engaged with their clients and their mission of being people forward is evident in the way that they show up and every single employee shows up. So small, big, like you can really see how organizations are when you speak with their people, when you check where they're focused, when you actually get down to like how they're making impact.
Erica Hakonson:You know, one of their senior VPs has this organization called Give a Mile. And so he has set up this organization so people can give away their frequent flyer miles so that when there is a imminent death coming in the family and somebody can't fly to be there on their own dime, they can use these miles to get there in time to say goodbye to a family member. Just like the people there are so outstanding. They're at every level.
Anthony Carrano:And that's really good. I appreciate you sharing your insights on that. And I wanna bring it back around to marketing.
Erica Hakonson:Yeah. Sorry.
Anthony Carrano:Now what, just in your experience, this could either be, you know, you can either touch on, go back to, you know, the story in which you won the award, or if you want to just speak in general, or if you want to, you know, touch on other experience, but what advice do you have for other Microsoft partners specifically looking to clarify their value prop and accelerate their marketing, you know, impact? And got me thinking too, especially it was earlier, like in this conversation, say, oh, well, this guy, you know, sells SharePoint here, and this other guy sells it down the street, and they're selling the same thing. You know, obviously, honing that value prop is so, so key.
Erica Hakonson:I mean, I'm sure Rudy, Anthony, you have a lot of experience in in trying to look at the same companies and say, yes, I know you you work on SharePoint or Azure, Power BI or Dynamics PC. I know and we'll talk about that, but that isn't why people are choosing to work with you. And so we're always trying to get our clients to think about, yes, you're a technology company, but that isn't actually what you deliver. Like you deliver the outcome, you deliver the ability for people to like sleep at night with knowing that this operation is now taken care of, knowing that there isn't duplication or human error, all of those pieces. So foundationally with new clients, we usually spend a lot of time on their brand messaging because there are very few partners out there that have done that work.
Erica Hakonson:You know, like I said, sometimes it's like we build it and then we figure out where we're to put the storefront. And even if they have done it, they may not be who they were five years ago. I mean, currently Maven Collective, we're going through a brand messaging shift. We're going through a website rebuild this year. It's really challenging me to start thinking about our organization very differently because yeah, the website we built five years ago is not who we are today.
Erica Hakonson:And so organizations have to continue to evaluate who they are, how they show up in market. Even like I said, scrappy little, I started this business and I was just a consultant that was hungry and taking everything and even bad contracts that I shouldn't have been taking just to like know that I could exist. You know, like if I still had that mentality and operated like that, I certainly wouldn't be where we are now. And I certainly wouldn't be talking to you because I wouldn't have any results to have submitted for this reward. So I think that that's one thing that maybe a lot of organizations or leaders or culture builders don't think about.
Erica Hakonson:It's like, oh, we've done that. Remember that ten years ago, we did that brand messaging exercise. Like we know who we are now, like done, dusted. Let's go put in this new technology. It's like, no, actually everything is evolving.
Erica Hakonson:You as a person are definitely different than you were ten years ago. And certainly organizations are organic and grow that way as well. The market has completely changed. Every single partner we meet, it's like, well, get AI on our website. Okay, great. What are we saying about you and AI? Like, just throw AI on your website isn't the answer to saying you're an AI partner. It's like, what are you doing with AI? What are you helping and building so that you're advancing other organizations with AI? Like that's not a strategy. That's just a keyword.
Erica Hakonson:So that's what I would encourage people to think about is one, it's something that has to be revisited more than every ten years. It should be every couple of years. There's certainly tweaks that we do every year. And also, you you aren't the technology you sell.
Erica Hakonson:You are the value you bring your clients. You are the outcomes you bring your clients. You are the benefits that you deliver to your community. So what are those things? If you're not talking about that, then, you know, you're selling the same thing the other Microsoft partner is selling down the street, and then you're just competing on cost.
Erica Hakonson:And, you know, that's a fast way to the bottom.
Anthony Carrano:Yep. The race to debase. That's for sure.
Erica Hakonson:Yeah.
Anthony Carrano:Excellent. We really oh, go ahead. I'm sorry.
Erica Hakonson:I was just gonna say one one quick way to to look at this for yourself as a partner is look yourself up on any of the Chat dot ai. Ask what this company is, does, what do they deliver? And that's usually a pretty honest way to understand. Now if you've peppered your chat AI already with all of the great things about yourself, then it's gonna lie to you and love you and, you know, start a start a new instance if it knows too much. Don't let it lie to you.
Erica Hakonson:Let it be honest. But it is a really good way if it's not already polluted with your own love for everything that is you because that's what Chat likes to do, it's a very good honest way to figure out what's what's being reflected into market.
Anthony Carrano:Thank you. That's fantastic. Appreciate that.
Rudy Rodriguez:Well, Erica, I've got a few follow-up questions because, you know, we talked about technical people. The technical people, you know, the industry we're in are very analytical. So what behavioral analytics, you know, shape your creative decisions and strategies that you work on on campaigns with partners?
Erica Hakonson:Yes, you are absolutely right. We picked for marketers, one of the toughest industries to exist in if you aren't really data driven and metric driven. Luckily, I have a bit of both brain and we internally also have very data driven people. The creative side and the measuring of the creative side is always interesting to explain to analytical people. So we like to put in a benchmark from day one when we start working with someone.
Erica Hakonson:So, you know, if they don't have analytics and they don't have ARIFs and they don't have, you know, clarity and Bing, BedMaster Tools and Google search console and all of the things that we need to be able to get like bench line where they are today, that's where we start. Look, it doesn't matter where you're performing. We hope you're performing great, but we just need to know where you're performing so we can track as we start to deploy things, whether these metrics are headed in the right direction or the wrong direction. We may need to change course. That and not everything can be measured in a lead, you know, like some things can be measured in awareness, impressions. We have clicks, clicks aren't creating conversions. Okay, let's rebuild that landing page. Okay, let's try a new creative. Maybe the messaging's off, maybe the offer's off. Let's try a different iteration of this.
Erica Hakonson:So for us, data is the only way we can one, prove value to our clients because it's nice when they think things look good and are pretty, but that doesn't feed the employees and their families, right? We need to actually show them that even if it's not coming in as a qualified lead, we have these metrics and measurements that show these are the things that are going in the right direction. Here's what's happening in marketplace visibility. Here's what actions are being taken. Where's the fall off?
Erica Hakonson:How do we help support the sales team and nurture if that seems to be like lead volume's good, but conversion to opportunity's not good. All right, let's go chase that metric. What's happening over there? So it does help us lead strategy. That initial benchmark helps us focus on what needs to be improved immediately and maybe what we can layer in once these foundational things are working well.
Erica Hakonson:And of course it does get us a good buy in with those stakeholders that all they want to do is look at data. Now, sometimes they say they don't want to look at data. They don't care about data. All they care about is revenue, which is true, true revenue needs to come, but sometimes revenue isn't a number that we can change from day one. So we need all of those early indicators that we're influencing things in the right way and we're leading to revenue.
Erica Hakonson:The organization that we submitted for this award, we actually, there were three partners, one analytical, one, you know, a bit of a, like definitely the leader and the visionary, and, you know, one more finance focused. And the hardest one to convince was of course the analytical one, who was also taking care of the website previous to us. So there were some, you know, stake in the game to say everything was going well, of course. So being able to benchmark and audit and show ways we could improve and then track that improvement, you know, started to get him on board with, okay, now I see it. That's where we were able to go through a rebrand and a re website launch and really have influence over, you know, lead submissions and conversions and driving revenue. And actually in eighteen months, we were able to double the revenue with that awesome sales team for that organization.
Rudy Rodriguez:Well, that's great great insights. All right. So let's talk a little bit about what's taking place in the marketplace today, because this is something that partners are having a hard time dealing with right now. Have AI and automation just reshaping the entire partner landscape. What's one area where you see partners both leveraging and underestimating the opportunity or the risk?
Erica Hakonson:Well, I mean, I think the obvious answer is AI. I had to, if I were to just hit it right on the nose, it would be AI is obviously the biggest opportunity that I've seen in my career. And maybe I was like entering a little after the dot com bust. So I missed that wave. But I do think that there's a ton of opportunity with AI.
Erica Hakonson:There's a ton of opportunity for partners to really create unique solutions with AI. Some of the things that we're seeing partners do that don't even have a technical background with AI is pretty outstanding. There is certainly a ton of risk. Like this is not something that doesn't seep into every area of your data, every area of your business. And so exposure of data, exposure of confidential information, your customer's information, like that level of risk, I don't think a lot of leaders are willing to take.
Erica Hakonson:And that's why we're seeing the slow uptake of AI outside of tech, right? I know Microsoft is really pushing partners to kind of put Copilot and AI and agents and everything. But the reality is like, banking isn't sure how AI is going to fit into their structure and their confidentiality. And how does that work from a legal and governmental standpoint and compliance standpoint? There's a whole swath of reasons why there's laggards and there will be laggards in this market because of the risk.
Erica Hakonson:I will say from a marketing perspective, like if we just look at our industry and our lens, it is completely disrupted the way we do nearly everything in marketing. And certainly there's some agencies that are just this, you know, AI first everything, which I don't disagree with, but I do feel that, you know, when all human elements are lost from communication, it is going to be very difficult for a partner to stand out. So all the slop that you can put out with AI at an extreme rate can certainly get you into market and get you flooding the market. But as we were talking about earlier, having that unique distinct value and really standing out as a partner, I can't see how you do that by letting AI generate every piece of your marketing and swapping it out to market. Even at the volume of, I can post every day, I can post 10 times a day, I can write 50 blogs a month, you know, you could do all that with straight AI, but like what value does that cost your brand?
Erica Hakonson:And how does your credibility align with whatever's coming out of AI? So I do think, there's great opportunity. I mean, we're building agents, we're learning a lot of AI, we're doing a lot of training for ourselves to figure out how we're going to integrate AI both into our company, which we have and out to our clients, which we are, but it's certainly measured. It's certainly being aware of the risk, having the risk acknowledged in the way that we're using it and we're being very transparent about the way we use AI.
Anthony Carrano:So over the course of your journey, Erica, if you could maybe just kind of look back, right, and give your younger self one piece of advice about building, actually, I know I was thinking about maybe building partnerships where I'd say, you know, maybe building a business in this ecosystem, what would it be?
Erica Hakonson:I mean, I can go both.
Anthony Carrano:Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it, yeah.
Erica Hakonson:We have partnerships as well. I mean, the IAMCP being a great example of we've been working with the IAMCP for four, going on five years in very different capacities, you know, like finding the virtual chapter over COVID and being very happy to be able to connect with so many people there across North America. And then connecting live with a lot of chapters as you know, travel began to open back up. I know we're not supposed to talk about COVID, but, it was really exciting to be able to get in person, with, with a lot of IAMCP members again, as we, as we started to venture out. So, and so that partnership was really important to us.
Erica Hakonson:It really helped us connect to a lot of different organizations across North America and Europe and the community. So I would say, IAMCP is a great partnership for us. We equally participate in the Dynamics community in different ways, like Directions North America, we're putting on their marketing day with Partner Talks and MS Dynamics World, and they're people we collaborate with often and really find value in, we participate in Dynamics user group and Dynamics communities. So there's lots of different partnerships that maybe aren't structured as much as like I'm a Microsoft partner, which we are, but you know, that really have like more relationship and partnership value in the day to day of running the business. As far as, you know, growing the business or like what kind of was the catalyst that that helped us change and grow maybe.
Erica Hakonson:It was more it took me a very long time to bet on myself. Get I I spent a lot a lot of time as an entrepreneur, and I had, like, two very great friends that just kept hassling me being, like, you you really need to be out and as an entrepreneur. Like, it's great. You're growing businesses and you're helping them exit, and it's it's awesome. Like you really need to do this on your own both for yourself to show you can do it and like what's the worst thing you would what would happen?
Erica Hakonson:You'd go get a job. You have a job right now. So you'd be back to where you are. So go and do that. So I think you know, that, that took me a long time to bet on myself.
Erica Hakonson:And then I felt like if I was going to do it, I had to do it scrappy and, and bootstrapping. And, you know, if I could give myself some piece of advice, I should have taken or tried to take finance in so that I could have been bigger, faster, had the help I needed sooner, you know, stop trying to do it all, try to control it all, own it all for so long because that really kept me, you know, small and limited to my own thinking until I was, you know, ready to grow. And I'm really glad that unlocked for me, but I should have taken on finance. I should have done it sooner. I mean, I haven't taken on finance. I'm still that idiot that still hasn't taken on finance. But like, if I could have done it again, I should have, I should have gotten myself to a level where I had support and had the ability to grow and work on the business sooner.
Anthony Carrano:No, that's excellent, excellent advice. Well, Erica, this has been a wonderful conversation. Really appreciate your insights and your perspective and wisdom on all this. But before we wrap up, I just kinda wanna hear maybe what are some of your last thoughts on how partners, you know, can, you know, successfully, you know, or know their success with their partnership with Microsoft?
Erica Hakonson:Yes, I am so glad you asked that Anthony, because we actually are launching again our Microsoft Partner Global Benchmark and And Success it's a benchmark of Microsoft partners globally. Those that participate are the ones that get access to it first. And it's a really great lens to look at your relationship with Microsoft through other partners' success. The responses we get come from all over the world, they come from managed partners, unmanaged partners, you know, software development companies, system integrators, channel partners all over, and we dissect that data and we cross sectionalize it so partners can see different ways people are finding success in partnership with Microsoft through Marketplace, through participating in communities like the IAMCP, and maybe where they're investing that they invest a lot of time in like MVPs, but like, is that translating to direct leads from Microsoft? Is that translating to, you know, like net out funding incentives, like we cross sectionalize it? Not really.
Erica Hakonson:The ones that have MVPs aren't really gaining more traction than those that don't. So I just really excited to put this resource out. It's brought to you by the Microsoft Partner Community because they're the ones that invest the time to respond. And it's given to the Microsoft Partner Community as an index to help them in relationship with Microsoft.
Erica Hakonson:Where do you find that success? What can you try or what can you move forward with? What can you invest in that can help you be more successful with that? And so it's it's completely based on data. It's a it's a free resource.
Erica Hakonson:We're really happy to give access to that.
Anthony Carrano:And how can people Get a hold of that? Will they go to your website or is it on your LinkedIn page? Or how how do-
Erica Hakonson:Well, it will it'll be both. Yeah. It'll be both. So we'll definitely get you the link and they can download it for free. They can participate in this year's upcoming index.
Erica Hakonson:So they'll be able to benchmark by taking our questionnaire. And we're really happy to put this into the community again this year, really excited that it's continuing.
Anthony Carrano:Excellent. We'll be sure to include that in the show notes. Well, Erica, once again, thank you. This is wonderful. Really appreciate all your perspective. What are some of the best ways folks can reach out and connect with you?
Erica Hakonson:Oh, yes. I'd love to connect. Welcome to the IAMCP Canada chapter.
Anthony Carrano:Okay.
Erica Hakonson:I joke. I joke. Not everyone's Canadian. I know. But you're welcome to because once you're an IAMCP member, you can join any chapter location.
Anthony Carrano:So we can we can redub it. The nicest IMCP members are up in Canada. That's-
Erica Hakonson:Yes, I agree. I agree with that. I also, of course, I'm on LinkedIn. I'll provide you with that. Our website is mavencollectivemarketing.com.
Erica Hakonson:You can learn more there. Like I said, we're working on a new one, so stay tuned. Maybe you can just watch transformation before and after. And then I'm at a lot of chapter events for the IAMCP and for Dynamics Communities, Dynamics User Group and Directions. So I hope to meet you in person at one of those as well.
Anthony Carrano:Sounds great. Well, thanks again, Erica. You enjoy the rest of your day.
Erica Hakonson:Thank you again for having me, Anthony and Rudy. It's been my pleasure.
Anthony Carrano:Excellent. Take care. Take care. Bye bye. Well, that was a great episode.
Anthony Carrano:Really appreciated having Erica on. I thought she just had a lot of great perspective, and I know one thing in particular that really stood out to me was just the emphasis she placed on the importance of alignment, you know, between themselves, their cost, and the customer. Just, you know, not only just going beyond just kind of goals, but just talking about values and cultural alignment and how that really just helps create a lot of just, you know, a better overall experience for everybody involved. I really appreciated that. How about you?
Rudy Rodriguez:Well, I found her answer real interesting when I asked her the question about behavioral analytics And, you know, the fact that we deal in the IT industry, you're dealing with very technical people, very analytical people. And her insight on that and how she uses the behavioral analytics, to help her shape her creative and strategy decisions Because she explains all the data that she's collecting and then shares that with these analytical people. So sometimes you're leading with technical people. Some times you're dealing with more sales driven people or revenue focused people. And sometimes you're dealing with more messaging.
Rudy Rodriguez:And so how she takes those analytics and shares them with each individual group to make sure that they understand, because a lot of technical people don't understand that marketing is a data driven industry. And if you understand that, then you can help your customers better understand the effort that's being undertaken and required to drive the results that they're looking for.
Anthony Carrano:Now that was really on point. And the other thing I'll just say like that I really appreciated was she made the point, because you know, we're talking with, you know, Microsoft Partners yet, you know, these technology companies, you know, dealing with very technical people, but just a nice reminder that, you know, for these folks that you are not the tech that you sell, but it's about the value that you're actually bringing to, you know, your customers. And so just the importance of including that and, you know, in terms of your overall brand messaging and how you're perceived, but also as a way to really differentiate yourself, you know, as a fellow Microsoft partner, you know, in this space. So I thought that was really on point.
Rudy Rodriguez:Absolutely. No. It's a it's a good interview. So everyone, thank you for joining us on this episode of IAMCP Profiles in Partnership powered by Dunamis Marketing. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and find it useful and inspiring.
Rudy Rodriguez:If you did, please subscribe, rate, and review us on your favorite podcast platform. One of the best ways to partner for success is to join IAMCP, a community of Microsoft partners who help each other grow and thrive. IAMCP members can find and connect with other partners locally and globally and access exclusive resources and opportunities. Whether you're looking for new customers, new markets, or new solutions, IAMCP can help you achieve your goals. To learn more, visit the website at www.iamcp.org.