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Being STRONG is more than just how much weight you can lift.
The Strong New York Podcast is dedicated to inspiring you to become your strongest self- in the gym, in business, in relationships and in life.
Join Kenny as he sits down with his strong as fuck buddies and shoots the shit on what it takes to be strong willed, strong minded and physically strong. Season one features everyone from entrepreneurs and local business owners to doctors and industry leaders in the fitness and wellness space.
With over a decade of experience, Kenny Santucci has made himself known as one of New York City’s top trainers and a thought leader in the health and wellness industry. After transforming his life at 15 years old through fitness, Kenny made it his mission to transform the lives of those around him.
Kenny has trained some of Hollywood’s biggest stars, including Jon Bon Jovi, Liev Schreiber, and Frank Ocean, and has been tapped as a fitness expert sharing his training approach with Men’s Health, Men’s Journal, Runner's World, SHAPE, Well+Good, among other publications.
Kenny is the creator of STRONG New York, NYC's only Health and Fitness Expo. Strong New York is an immersive day of workouts, wellness experiences, panel discussions, and inspiring conversations with the best in-class wellness professionals, industry leaders, and change makers who are sharing their expertise on today's hottest wellness trends and first-hand experiences on how to optimize your overall health and life.
You can find Kenny at The Strength Club, his private training and group strength training facility in the heart of Manhattan located on 28th and 5th Ave in New York City.
Welcome to the Strong as F#ck podcast. I'm your host Kenny Santucci and join us for some strong conversations
So I'm not a sports fan, which most people find kind of surprising which most people find very fascinating I could give a fuck less about conventional sports. I don't watch baseball basketball full Um, I do watch UFC because I like combat sports, um, but a lot of people find it fascinating, but I love sports training, which leads me into the next episode of the strongest podcast right here in New York City.
A couple months ago, I went out to Long Island, which I hate doing because if you ever been to Long Island, there is one way in and one way out, and it's like end of days out there, but I traveled all the way far into Long Island to go see, uh, a new good buddy of mine, uh, Mike Stella, who is an unbelievable rehabilitation, uh, Athletic trainer yeah And he he does it all and he's working with some of the best and I love watching this guy grow because he's got a Great mindset he's been doing a long time and he deserves every ounce of success he gets so without further ado Mike Stella my man Welcome back.
I made it. I listen. I made the trek into New York City. I don't do very often. Well, you know what? I mean back in the day people used to come here as a pilgrimage. It was like, yeah, they had to uh, Pay their dues to come to the greatest city in the world. Sure Now you come here and you get to watch people shit on the street You know, it's always been a bit of a shithole, but there's there was a time i'd say between bloomberg And before de blasio got in Or I'd say like Giuliani to like de Blasio, which is fucking amazing.
That's like the New York City that I remember like growing up in high Like we used to take the train, we used to We used to hop after school, get on Long Isle Railroad, come out to the city, and like buy cheap shit in Chinatown, or like just Dick around in New York City because it was fun. It was able you could do it.
When did the the Yankees won in what 98 99? I was about yeah, and a bunch of times around 2000, right? So there was a point where they won I was in still in high school. They just won the World Series I'm sitting in like science class with a bunch of buddies it and I went to high school in Jersey City and we're like Let's get on the train and go to the Yankee Parade And I was like, I'm in, dude.
Yeah. Like, anytime somebody has a stupid idea like that, I was like, I'm in, let's go. Took the train into the city, came to see the Yankee parade, and I was like, this is fu it was great. Yeah. You know, it was so much fun. It was, it was almost like there was no animosity. I mean, obviously, there was always, like, mean Rude angry people who are trying to get from here to there, but it wasn't like it is now where there was like this divide Right because we're about the same age.
We we kind of came up at the same time But anyway enough about New York City We came out there I, I thought, I thought you, uh, got a great operation going on out there. Appreciate that. Do you have like an expansion plan? Are you trying to do anything else? Are you going to stay there? Like people always ask me that question.
I'm like, I have no fucking plan. That's kind of where I'm at with it. You know, it's like, I've already achieved things that I thought I would never do in my life. So it's kind of hard to like dream past that. Like I, like I came from like a single parent household. Oh, oh,
it's not doing a camera thing. Are we fucked on that first couple, that first little bit? Just the wide angle? I
might have you Well, so, it's there. Yeah? It's just not going to be focused. If you don't mind that, then you can use it, but I might not make it that far. Well, oh, it's not focused? No, it, like, this, the ISO didn't start recording, so it was only recording 1080. Is that okay? He's a little out of focus there.
Now he is, yeah, because I just restarted. Oh. I mean, that's probably fine.
Not yet. That's fine. I'm going to move her micro sensor problem, right?
You're man spreading. That's what she means.
Will you have time to type up the programming tonight or tomorrow?
Gotta finish that shit. Um, okay. Good? We're good to go. Alright. Uh, so We'll use what we can. Yeah, most of the interest stuff is going to be fine. It's just going to be guess. That's going to be so we can just use a wide angle, right? Yeah. Okay. For the intro part. Yeah. Just use the wide. I don't give a shit.
Um, what? I forgot what the fuck we were talking about. Oh, expansion expansion. Yes. Yeah. Your expansion. So, yeah, I mean, like I've, I've already achieved more than I thought I ever would in terms of like being a business owner and as a business owner, do you ever. Uh, indulge in doing masterminds or any like, um, manifestation stuff.
Do you do any mastermind programs and like groups and stuff? I've done tons of stuff. Yeah. Oh, no, but like just business masterminds, like strictly business masterminds. No, I haven't done any like general business ones. I've really stuck to like the niche stuff, like physical therapy, clinical fitness, that kind of stuff.
I've finally gotten to a point in my career where I have a little bit of cash. To do stupid shit like that. And I've been, I've found it so valuable. I just got back from a mastermind. I go with this guy, Gio. Um, he's, he's in Toronto. Now, I have been fucked before. There's a real piece of shit in the industry that's fucked me out of Some money who's supposed to help me with like marketing advertising, however, uh, there are some people who have great masterminds more like on a, on a level down from like Tony Robbins where they could help you.
What, you know, manifestations and coming up with ideas and how to do these things. And as of recently, I've started putting down all the things I'm really good at, right? Which that's a short list, very short list. When you have to be honest with yourself, you're like, there's not a lot here. And then all the shit I'm bad at.
And that's a lot longer, probably twice as long. Um, but I'm writing down this list and then it's like, it's just about visualizing and understanding what you're really good at and what you're really bad at. And then on the opposite page, I'm putting down what I want out of life. Like if you're clear and concise about your goal, then you could.
Draw the lines to how to get there. Sure. Um, it's almost like working backwards. Like, Hey, you want to get into really good shape? All right, here, this is where you want to be. This is how we get there. Um, and I think most people in life don't know where they want to go or what they want out of life. Like most people, if you give them a hundred million dollars, you're like.
Go ahead. What would you go do with it? They're like, uh, buy a house, right? And you're like, all right, and now beyond buying a house and you really don't need a hundred million dollars And most of it's gonna sit in the bank and like how do you change your life as well as everyone else? How do you enrich everybody's also and I'm having a real fucking hard time Trying to figure out like what I want because at the end of the day if somebody's like, oh, do you want a boat?
I'm like Sure, but not really. Like, I don't really want that. I don't give a fuck. Um, this week, the last two days, we went on a boat and everybody's like, Oh, nice life. I'm like, do you know what I was doing when everybody was on the boat? I went downstairs into one of the cabins and took a nap. And everybody's like, why aren't you enjoying it?
I go, I don't give a fuck to sit on a boat. I want to get work done. Like, if I had my You know, my phone was working my life. I would have just done more work, but like I and I think that's my that's my outlet. I think that's where I need to go. It's like just doing more so I could figure out what I want next.
And that's awesome, too, because you don't really need to have like a set endpoint destination to just get things done. I think people Oh, a lot of what I've seen, like friends of mine, what you do on a daily, I love it. I like and truthfully like my my career and my profession like saved my life Honestly, it gave me like I went through some gnarly times when I was You know like a young adult like just getting into the industry.
I lost both my parents. I look, you know, I had a lot of uh, like personal strife and for me Like being able to help other people was the thing that kept me Out of trouble out of like the darker places, you know, well, I want to touch on two things because I have another buddy who lost both his parents and he, um, he's a good guy.
I want to say at the end of the day is a good guy, but he wastes his time doing dumb shit. Um, but that's a horse of a different color. But one, how has that affected you? And two, what do you say when people give you that cliche? They're like, well, he just wants to make money. He doesn't really give a shit.
Right, right, right. So like one, no. If you don't mind me asking, what happened with your family? So my dad died when I was like two. I was super young, he died of a heart attack. There's some controversy around how that happened. Um, but How old of a guy was he? He was 33 years old. Of a heart attack? Yep. But it was, the story was that he was an electrician.
It was uh, he had maybe like an arrhythmia. And then got a shock at like the right time and boom. Just like So I don't remember him at all because I was two, three years old. Um, so my mom, you know, we kind of grew up in like a single family household and then my mom passed away. Are you a single child? No, I'm the middle of three.
So me and my brother are actually 11 months apart and you know, um, so. We were all you know, the whole thing with me was because of the situation in the circumstance like people always Like it felt bad for you, right? They always were like, oh like the poor Stella's this and that and I always felt really awkward and uncomfortable Like being a victim being like because I had a good life, you know, my mom did a lot for us You know, we weren't wealthy, but we didn't, we ate my, she cooked all of our, you know what I mean?
We had a really good childhood. We grew up in the nineties. It was the best time to be a kid. Yeah. Um, So we had a lot of family support. My grandparents was very close with them, you know, my extended family, but it was, it was one of those things. And when my mom got sick, she died of cancer in 2015. So I was 28 at the time, 29, something like that.
Holy shit. And it was kind of like everything got dumped on me. Like, cause I was the only one that could really Yeah. Kind of put my head down and just keep working and move forward. So for me, like my contribution to my family younger was that nobody really needed to do anything for me. I was working two jobs when I was 14 years old all the way through until I could, you know, uh, until now, you know, what did your mom do?
She, she did a bunch of different things. She was like an administrative assistant. She worked in the World Trade Center when she was younger. Um, then when we were all born, she was a stay at home mom essentially. But she had like odd jobs here and there. Um, yeah, no, I have a very similar upbringing. My mom, you know, kind of worked like bullshit jobs here and there.
Um, you know, my dad was a cop and then stopped and he went through a bit of a hard time. Sure. And then for us, it's like I got a job. My parents, um, you know, made up my age so I could start working at like 11 years old because you're really not allowed to stay at a real job. Yeah, you have to get working papers, more school, yeah.
You're like 13, 14 years old. So I got working papers at like 11. Wow. And my parents were like, get to fucking work because we need help. And you know, that's what we did. We had a, but that's all I wrote. That's all I know. So I think for somebody like you, it's like there are two different ways you could look at it.
Like some people look at it like poor me. I had this happen, right? This is why I'm a drug user. I have a fucking stupid. That's why I have mental health issues. Yeah. And it's like, I'm a fucking victim for me. And then, but you took it and you were like, all right, yeah. This is, this is life, you know, when people look at other, and I'm definitely guilty of it as well.
You look at certain people's lives and you're like, fuck man, they really won the gene pool there. It really got lucky, you know, you know, get a genetic lottery. Yeah. You get into a good family where you're like, oh shit, you don't have to worry about shit. They're like, here's 12 million to start a business.
Um, but yeah, no, I just always, I knew from a young age, I was like, well, I'm not getting out of this. Unless I do something right. That was exactly for me. It was successor like death. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. No, that's the way there was no way. It was like I was going to make it no matter what. And it was going to have to be off the sweat of my own back.
So, you know, the athletic training sports medicine thing kind of happened by mistake because I blew my knee out. You know, my knee out in high school. I was a little. So for me, I was a very good student. I was a really good athlete. So I had an outlet when I was young. You like that guy would have fucking hated in high school.
Yeah, smart. Yeah. Again, if for everybody, you get your hands, you get your cards, right? Yeah. So and you got to play the hand. You're dealt got to play the hand. You're done. So for me, it was, you know, more. I'm never gonna, I'm not going to get a handout. No one's coming to save me. So the only way for me to win is through competence.
Yeah, that's it. Yeah. So I, you know, and even the kind of the journey of like being an injured athlete and like having my way out full ride play college across, you know, great. I don't have to worry about school anymore. And then boom. Blow out the ACL, PCL, MCL, meniscus. And then my lacrosse career was like, Uh, yeah, not, not so much.
So, the sports medicine happened because I was hurt and in pain. Um, and trying to figure out my own body. And then I was like, oh, okay, I kind of like this. Like, it's like you work with athletes. The worst thing that happened to you became the best thing. I think that's been the truth for a lot of things in my life.
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's true for a lot of people. It's like you You get thrown this fucking dynamite and you either hold it in your hand or toss it, toss it away. I, I mean, I tell everybody like, everybody's like, why are you so passionate about the fitness industry? I go, I was fat as a kid and people are like, yeah, but that was so long ago.
But what happens to you as an adult isn't as scarring as what happens to you as a child. Sure. So for me, I was heavy and I never want to go there anymore and I enjoy and love the way I feel when I'm in shape and I want to share that with as many people as possible. That's why I do what I do on a daily basis.
So for, for me, every day is a gift to be like, Oh my God. And there was times I had some, even this weekend. I called my doctor. I was like, my back's fucking killing me out of nowhere. And I get so scared that I can't move and I can't do the things I want to do. And I think, I tell people all the time, Don't take for granted you have the use of your arms, your legs, this and that.
There are so many inspiring people. I mean, Zion, uh, Clark, right? Is that his name? Uh, he spoke at Strong a couple years ago. And this dude was Has nothing from like the waist down. And it's so, and he's a young dude, he's like 25 maybe, 26 now? He's really young. And he spoke at Strong This Year, uh, a couple years ago.
And he was so inspiring, and like, I'm like, here's a guy with no fucking legs. Who never makes an excuse like, oh, poor me, he wrestled, he had a UFC fight, he came and spoke on stage, you know, he walks on his hands. Right. Um And meanwhile people complain about the dumbest shit ever. There hasn't been a The dumbest shit ever.
There hasn't been a person that I haven't heard Including myself, be like, ah, my neck's bothering, my foot's bothering, I can't do anything. You could always do something and never take for granted the use of movement. You know, movement is so important, I think it's more important than any fucking medicine we've ever come up with.
Absolutely. Yeah. That's the truth. I mean, you know, again, if you live to 90 but you're, Bedridden from 50, like what kind of life is that? You know, if you can't do any of the things that you want to do. And even like in our society, right, we, we kind of put this carrot, like you're going to retire and it's your golden years.
Well, is it your golden years? If you can't walk up the stairs, if you can't go on that vacation, you've been waiting your whole life to do, or do that trip or see that place or so. You know, I'm, I'm with you on that. And I think the combination for me of, you know, seeing my mom struggle and not wanting that for myself or my family, um, you know, add that to the fact that I was in chronic pain and dealing with, you know, Being disabled going from, you know, all American level athlete to, um, I can't walk without pain after my surgery and like for years after that, couldn't straighten my knee for years.
So I just didn't understand. It's like I did everything people told me to do and I just wasn't getting better. And. So it became really frustrating. So people ask me, like, Oh, how do you know what you know? It's like, because I spent a lot of years in a dark place where the only outlet I really had was learning as much as I could.
So I selfishly so I could help myself. Yeah. Yeah. On some level. Right. And so way. Then I kind of just parlayed that into the ability to help other people, um, which gave me like an intrinsic reward that I was missing in my life. Like it made me very happy to see other people get out of pain and that I could help them do that, uh, was very curative and therapeutic for me and my own issues at the time.
Let's just say you charge, um, 200, 300 an hour for your time, people still see that what took you years to develop, fail, succeed, fail again, succeed, all that knowledge. To get to that point where you can now help someone for a very low cost right and Exponentially improve their lives Which is so crazy to me because I tell people nowadays like just like I was talking about before with me Investing like it cost me a couple grand to go down there and like do these masterminds, but this guy curated this group of people Over the course of 10 plus years Spent his you know, it's a it's you're not just paying for that moment You're paying for everything that led up to that moment percent.
So when people are like, oh, that guy's expensive. I'm not gonna go to him I'm like, are you a fucking idiot? He could he could improve your life right now, right? You know, why wouldn't you go to him? That's the difference between cost and value Yeah, you know and I think a lot of especially like when you You know, because cash pay, physical therapy, rehab is a relatively new thing.
It's only like 10 or so years like where people have gone outside the insurance realm for rehab stuff. Yes, but I think, but I think it's with doctors too. I pay my doctor. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, all healthcare is like starting to go healthcare. Yeah, because especially the good ones go private. They've fucked it up so far and and when people are like, oh you pay your doctor?
I go yes, because my health is the most important thing. So why wouldn't I spend on that? I love that. It's going on set to look at. It's so crazy. That's the most valuable thing you have. So to me, everyone should be paying and fuck these insurance companies. If everybody just pulled, I feel I can't because of, I guess, Obamacare or whatever it was.
We all have to pay into the system, but I don't even use my insurance. They're like, Oh, God forbid one day it happens. Well, it's like for what I've been paying over the past 42 fucking years of my life, I should have stockpiled 7 million at this point, you know? So it's like, that's the tricky part, right?
Which is fucked up, right? You're paying for a bunch of other bullshit and you're paying for these insurance companies. To have a CEO making 45 million dollars a year. What the fuck does he make 45 million dollars a year for? You know? Or, or the fact that they can name football stadiums and Yeah. After the company.
It's like, that's what they spend the money on. No shit. So Which is bullshit. Listen, you know, I think what ends up happening is Listen, there's bad players at every level of this on the provider side, that people take advantage of people that are vulnerable and in pain or sick on the insurance side where you only have one option in terms of how you're getting these things paid for.
And then, you know, but the whole system. Is set up in a way where everybody gets their cut along the way. So, our tax system's the same way. It might as well be written in fucking, you know, hieroglyphics. The way it's, you look at it and you're like, I don't even know what the fuck this means. So you have to pay a guy to take care of it for you.
Right. You know, and if you fuck something up on it, the IRS comes after you. The, the, 900 million dollars could go missing in the, in the government. But if you owe them 12. 50, they're coming for you. Easy Kenny, easy Kenny. I 100 percent agree with you. And I think that's, you know, like now you look at social media and people complaining about all these things and RFK and he's a quack and this and that.
It's like, just listen to the guy. Listen to what he's saying. Do you think more people are starting to wake up to what the fuck has been going on for the past 60 years? I hope so. Because I think, you know, it's easy to slip into the group. Think it's easy to slip into, you know, I don't want to rock the boat.
You know, I don't want people to think of me a different way, or you have this image that you want people to see your ambassador, but in your head, you're thinking, well, this doesn't make any fucking sense. I think that's a lot of people. Right. And I, and I think we're slowly starting to ask the right questions.
And that, to me, is what I'm excited about for the future of healthcare, is I'm not saying one way or the other, oh, vaccines are bad, or this is bad. It's like, nothing's binary and black and white like that. It's all shades of grey. Yeah. And nuance and context specific. But, if we zoom out and look at the whole picture, we can start to look at, well, what are the broad brush strokes of things that we can change?
That have a trickle down effect into the individual person's life. So my whole thing, like when people like taking food dyes out, doesn't, doesn't solve the chronic health issue. It's like, okay, maybe that's true. What you're really doing is you're insulating the lowest common denominator the people who don't make the right choices like we are lucky We're the privileged ones that dedicate our lives to health and fitness and have a better understanding of how health nutrition movement So we don't stress works, right?
So we're the lucky ones right but there's a lot of people out there who make poor choices because it's the easiest way to go so if we can just Clean up the bottom a little bit. You're raising people up from the bottom. Is it going to dramatically change everything? No, but like you said, it's a start.
Let's just at least ask the more critical question of what's the downside of getting rid of that shit? What's the downside? There's no harm being done. And that is the cornerstone of medicine. The Hippocratic Oath. Do no harm. So if we're allowing the regulatory agencies, the pharmaceutical companies and the providers to essentially be in cahoots, they don't need a specific meeting to say, Hey, we're going to screw people over.
They have aligned interests and it comes down to money. And like, again, capitalism has raised more people out of poverty than anything else in human history. But there's a downside. Yeah. But the problem that I, that I have a lot of times is people are, you know, we're always going to have. People who are taking advantage of being taken advantage of, you know, and that is the ugly part that isn't right.
But it isn't also reflective of everything. Right. So I think the big mistake people make is they want to take A complex, nuanced conversation or topic like health and make a one broad brush stroke on it. And it's like, you can't do that. It's all context and situational and individual. And that's even my gripe when people are like, well, where's the research?
Where's the research? It's like research gives us one yes or no answer at a time. It's not this hyper specific thing that like follow the science. The science is constantly changing. The science is shifted based on the questions that we ask. What even? You know, Lane Norton is a guy I've been following for quite some time.
Sure. You know who he is. Yeah, absolutely. And he's, uh, he always talks about randomized trials, but they're at the core of what they are. They're random. Right. And we don't know what these people's backgrounds are, how they, you know, how they live their lives, what shape they're in. And I was just with, uh, Ben Pakulski over the last couple days.
Okay. Great guy. Loved him. Um, you know, I ran into, I met him on Monday. We've been chatting on Instagram forever because I've just been a huge fan. And on Monday, he's like, Hey, you want to go to the gym tomorrow? I was like, I felt like the fat kid, the prom queen just asked me to dance. And I was like, yeah, whatever time you want to go, I'm in.
Um, so we were hanging out and we were talking about just that because everybody in our group was like, Oh, you guys are the fitness group. So you guys are the fitness guy. So everybody's asking us questions. And a lot of the questions were, you know, how do we. Dial in on this one breaststroke, this breaststroke, how do we get as much out of one question as we possibly can like, Oh, is this good or is this bad?
Because people saw the way I was eating and I ate a plate of eggs, some meat, you know, bacon, all this shit. And they're like, I'm guessing you're a carnivore. We went out to dinner and I ordered steak. And I go, yeah, I try to eat as carnivore as I can, but I'll eat vegetables and fruit and things like that.
But I just try to stay away from any process shit and people are, do you think that's the best way? I go, no, it's my way. This is what works for me. So when you do random trials with different people, it's like, are those, is that necessarily the best answer? We always base things off the majority and not the minority.
Right. Um, so, but this works for me. I know people would probably get sick if they. As much meat as I do. Um, so when people are like, well, what do you do? It doesn't matter what the fuck I'm doing. Right. You know, it's, this is what works for me. And when you find what works for you, but it's going to take some time, effort.
And you're going to have to invest in yourself. I say this all the time. If you ate peanuts and drop dead, you got a peanut allergy. If I eat peanuts and enjoy it, it's like, we're two different humans. Right. The same way a peanut could affect us differently. Medication can, a diet can, exercise can, stress can.
Yeah. So you can't just base on, you don't know who you're dealing with. So yes, randomized trial is the best way to figure things out because you're just dealing with rent. But at the end of the day, is it the only way to do things? No. Like I think what I was telling Ben was I go, don't you think to a certain degree that we've been doing this long enough and worked with enough people that we're essentially doing our own type of research?
Like you've worked with enough of the population. In and around your area to understand that most people in your area need X, Y, and Z. Sure. Yeah. And again, that's the whole thing is like when we, when we even create like these movement systems, right? Like movement assessments or, you know, diagnostic tests, special testing or.
So just, and like, okay, you look at the research on like the SFMA and what do you get? You get the standard distribution of probability. So what did people say? Oh, it's bullshit. It doesn't work. Well, yeah, it didn't work for some of those people because we don't know all the variables in their equation, but there's also people that it did help.
Yeah. So, you know, the problem is, is like we, we, we as humans, we create these models and We I we want everything to fit the model, right? Because it's simple. We want the if then statement. If this happens, then you do this. And that's essentially what modern medicine has become, which is if this if you see this, then you get this drug.
If you see this on a lab, then this is the recommendation. But The more you do that, the more you realize how many people that doesn't help, right? And so I always say it's like the research is great, but it's a guardrail. It's just so that we don't go off the edges, right? But the only thing that matters is the N equals one, the person in front of you, because they have this unique equation that.
Of all these different variables in their life. My job is just to say which of these variables do I think based on this person's story has the largest effect size That's what i'm trying to do. So people like oh, that's bullshit hip mobility doesn't correlate directly to low back pain For some people it might not But for others, Oh my God, I can't believe you fixed that.
It's like, I didn't fix it. I just found you an entry point that we were able to exploit. And that's awesome. And I love that. And that's really satisfying. Right? For to, to be the person that can help somebody take their puzzle pieces and put them together in a way that works. That's why we can't. That's why medicine is difficult to scale.
You know, what are some of the protocols that you want your staff? To know and understand, like, are there, are there certain courses and certain, um, you know, technique styles, whether it's like, uh, you know,
Like, what are those things that you want your staff to be burst in? I did, I've done every course imaginable. I can believe it. Right. And so, and for me, I always kind of adapted like this, the Bruce Lee method, which is like adapt what you love that's useful and reject what you don't and like make it uniquely your own.
And so a lot of people, my big issue. With the industry is like people get into these camps and this is what we see. This is what we're seeing in New York city. This is what we're seeing on social media as people want to get in this camp and be secured by the other people in that camp. So it's very, for me, I've always kind of walked the lines in between those things because I can get along with anybody and I'm like, I see the value in what you're doing.
That's awesome. I can look at you for the value that you bring, not for maybe, okay, you only do this one system and that's all you believe in. Okay, that's fine. That's your approach. My staff, like, I, I want them to be curious. I, I provide them, like, this multi systems approach. Because if you look at all the systems, SFMA, FMS, you look at PRI, you look at FRC, you look at TPI, all these different Awesome courses that everybody should definitely think there's some value and there's value in all of them, right?
They're all what you're looking at when you go to those courses is somebody who's really smart who's put a lot of time and effort into solving for what their perspective of the problem That's what you're getting. So that, you know, so when you're looking at SFMA versus TPI, okay, lots of stuff that overlaps, some stuff that's a little different, but what you're looking at are Greg Roses and, you know, Greg Hooks, their lens, you're looking through their lens when you look at those systems, right?
They're not perfect. Do you think they have to be dogmatic because they came up with this theory? Because I feel like there's very few times where people are like, well, I'll use ART. When it when I could use it, you know, like somebody else using somebody else's system, but I feel like everybody has to, like, go all in on this one idea.
And not adopt anybody else's theories. I think that's the recipe for maybe success on social media but failure in in practice and the reason for that is You know as soon as you put yourself in one camp all the people in that camp also like you're the best Right, so you kind of make yourself your own little echo chamber of fucking awesome ego shit, right?
And then all the people in the other camps like but you it's easier to ignore them at that point So i'm kind of like oh what's going on over here? What's going on over here? I'm interested in that. Well, why do you think that? I'm just kind of I always ask like the why question Dig a little deeper dig a little deeper and what I found is like for for a lot of people You're 100 percent right.
You want to use all of these systems are keys on a key ring. Mm hmm The first thing I recommend for my young staff is like just gather fucking keys, man You're like Link in The Legend of Zelda Yeah, you know, go around. You gotta find all the keys. Then once you gather enough keys, then you have to figure out which key unlocks which door.
But what you see on social media is like, Oh my God, a T G. Listen, Ben bit love Ben Patrick. I think there's a lot of really good stuff there, and he's debunked some mythology around certain things. But now it's this dogmatic approach. It's like all a T G is everything. You see all the little copycats kind of like it.
Just fall in the line fucking experts. It's like I had knee pain and now I can do this and they do the same fucking shit. He does, right? Like, so again, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think it's great. I use a ton of it. I, so do I, but the idea is it's like, okay, well, if you only have one key.
And you just shove it in every door, you're gonna unlock some doors, but you don't talk about the other doors that didn't get unlocked. You just talk about the ones that you've had success with. So, but that's the confirmation bias too, right? That's the people go and see how awesome I am, but they don't ever take a step back and go, well, why didn't it work for that guy?
What is it that I missed this time, but it's easy just to move on to the next one, right? So I'm always obsessed with like like when I when I've had clients that don't get better It's like I'm fucking up as I'm thinking about it Researching it like I it's like a itch that you just can't scratch and maybe that's just my undiagnosed ADHD, but It also is part of why I think I've been successful is because I'm not willing to just let it go.
Yeah. I'll find the answer or I'll find you the person who has a better answer because I just want to see you get better. But that's how you become who you are in the industry. That you, you have this crazy idea that you have to give a fuck. You have to give a fuck. I'm the same way. We were talking about the other day.
Um, you know, what, what I mentioned before about getting screwed over with some deals. I had lost some money and I, I said to the guy who runs the company, I go, Hey man, listen, let's just squash it, keep the money I gave you paint up to this point. Pay me the money back, you know, and we'll move on from this.
And he refused to pay me back. I tell everybody, I tell Chrissy, if any vendor at our event or anybody's unhappy with my gyms, Or the, uh, event, if you didn't, if you feel like you got zero value out of this and it was not worth your, I'll give you your money back. A hundred percent. I've done it. Because I didn't help.
Yeah. Cause I couldn't help you. And I'm sorry. I thought I was doing the right thing. It doesn't work out. No problem. Here's your money back. Go. Yeah. I had a client who, who came in at a referral from another local trainer and, uh, Had a great first couple of sessions with him. We kind of figured out this plan and then he kind of just disappeared.
Like he got bit, he was like that classic, you know, wealthier, a little bit felt like the VIP, he needed the VIP treatment. And you know, he only wanted to work with me and my schedule is pretty tough. Sometimes it's like, then you have to book in advance. He's like, no, but I can't, I need to see you on Sundays.
It's like, I don't work Sundays. Like, that's my day. So there's just certain things I'm not going to budge on. I'm like, I'm more than happy to help you and figure out a middle ground here. But like you have to. You're going to have to make a little bit of some sacrifice too. So fast forward two years, the guy bought like a 12 pack of sessions, use one or two of them comes back two years later.
He's on my calendar. I'm like, Hey man, how you been? What's up now? I also put an expiration date on these sessions because I not to punish people, but to like, Hey, this is going to take time and it's going to take consistency. And like, you got to do the work too. Like if I could do the reps for you, I would, and I just charge you more.
But. So, you know, he basically and he brought his trainer in and it was the first time I had met her in person and he just starts going on and on about like, you know, how he really just needs me to spend two hours like digging into him and that's going to fix his problem. And I'm trying to do. My thing, which is I'm like, listen, man, I love manual therapy.
I think it's great, but there isn't a specific technique that's going to fix this for you. It doesn't work like that. It's way more, chronic, low back pain, chronic shoulder stiffness, like a, like a bunch of like basic stuff. It wasn't, and again, deconditioned. Not of a guy, mid thirty, mid late thirties, early forties, something like that.
Not an old guy, deconditioned, never really worked out in his life, you know, like kind of always had the silver spoon a little bit. And I'm like, listen, man, I'm not going to do that. I want to help you learn so that you can help yourself. And most of the time people really appreciate that. This guy just wanted what he wanted.
He wanted me to come in on Sundays and treat him for two hours and have that be the experience. And I'm like, listen, I'm not going to do that. And I refunded him the full amount. Out of money, including the sessions that I had done for him that he bought two years ago or a year ago. And I'm like, I'm wishing you the absolute best of luck.
And he looked at me because he started like basically pointing the finger. Like I'm just doing it for the money. Yeah. And I'm like, no, man, like I'm just trying to pass you off to my staff for the money. I'm like, no man. It's like, my guys are really fucking good at what they do because they've put a lot of time and effort into it.
And like. In truth, your problem is pretty straightforward. If you just worked on it consistently, I think you'd get better, but it just wasn't a good fit and as soon as he made it about the money, like I was trying to screw him over. I'm like, and that's the best part about the success that I've gotten so far is like, it doesn't really matter to me.
The money is not the important part. It's awesome. And I'm very grateful and I'm blessed that I could take my wife on vacation and we can live with it. Do the things that we want to do. I'm not going to be pigeonholed into that. No way. I think you get to a certain point in business where people always think like, Oh, you're doing this just for the money, whether it's the event.
Or my gyms, no one person moves the fucking needle that much, right? So for me to give somebody like I, I hope that I run a good enough business that everybody's like, there's not this mass exodus, but at the same time, I'm like, Hey, I'm. I do my best on a daily basis. And if you are unhappy with what I'm providing, take the fucking money, go listen, go somewhere.
It's not a good fit. Sometimes it's just not the right fit. And that's okay. And I think, and but that's also the kind of underlying crux of health care is like, you can't solve problems with complex problems with simple solutions, meaning like this one pill isn't going to have it. A complete 100 percent success rate because belief factors matter what people know matters their their lifestyle matters, right?
Even it's so insofar as like this guy's like I believe that if you just crush me in this session For two hours on a sunday, it will fix my problem. It's like That unfortunately, he's never going to get better And and that's because of his mindset not because of his actual issue. The issue itself is you got to just move more And, and, and eat a little cleaner and make sure you get some sleep and do the basic things like 80 percent good and you're going to be fine, but you can't, you're like, so you lead the horse to the water, right?
You can't make him drink. Yeah, and somebody at that young of an age, like mid to late thirties, it's, and you're bitching like, sounds like a real cunt of a guy. But, um, he was, he was, and I feel bad for him. Honestly, I really felt bad for him because well, it's, it's going to catch up to him to the point where he's like, fuck, I have no choice, but to do the work.
Like I say, eventually he'll be forced to, eventually it'll get to the point where he has no choice. I was telling, uh, sessions yesterday in, uh, in Jersey, I had a big group of people I was training and I said, you're either going to pay now or pay later. But either way, you have to do the shit that you don't want to do right, right, like the slow moving like I had them like doing Cuban presses and I had them doing just like kind of, uh, stretching mobility stuff that I believe to be important that most people don't want to do.
Like that nuance y bullshit in the gym, um, just to get them to feel better. Like, everybody wants to rush through workouts and be like, Alright, check the box, I'm done, I did my push ups. I'm so sweaty, yeah. Yeah, I did my push ups, I wanna sweat, so sweating equals good workout. Um, and I'm like, nope, you gotta do it the right way, you gotta take your time, you gotta do it this way.
Um, Yeah, and it's funny because now it's like to your point on the sweating thing. It's like now there's like hot Pilates and hot kettlebell classes and hot this and hot that and I'm like What when did this happen? I'm like I get like the hot yoga has always kind of been a thing and maybe that was the trend that started it But like that's been around forever.
Yeah, but hot kettlebell classes. Why are we adding that to a kettlebell class? I just I just don't Maybe I'm not smart enough, and I don't know the science enough, but I don't think that sweating equals a good workout. I mean, I could go sit in my fucking car, turn the heat on, and sweat. Sure, I'm sweating right now.
Yeah. I'm not getting any better just sweating. Um You know, it's, it's the movement, it's what you're doing, uh, you know, with, with your, with your muscle tissue and your hormones and everything else that's, that's going on. I think part of it is like, when you get your tissue temperatures up, you feel a little bit more mobile, right?
You feel a little bit looser. And this is the property in our muscle tissue. We call it viscoelasticity. So elasticity, obviously stretchability, visco is a shortened term for viscosity, which is The density of a fluid, right? So we have this, as we raise our tissue temperature, we, we, our tissues become more elastic and we feel better.
So it's like, I think that's probably part of it. I have a feeling it's popular more for what you said, which is the consumer feels like I'm really sweaty. Therefore that equals a better outcome when it's like. You could have just got dental, a quick little warm up to get the same feeling, preserve some of your water, probably push yourself a little harder and gotten a better outcome long term if you just skipped that part of it.
But I do like to use heat and sauna after our work sessions. I love heat and sauna. I mean, I, I, but I think there's definitely something else going on there. I mean, you're, if you're sitting in a good sauna, it's one 80 plus and you're really getting your sweat. You're training the, Elastic component of your arteries and blood vessels, which is partly why people die of atherosclerosis, right?
The hardening of the artery. So at least by some proxy, you can train that system, even if you're not exercising, which is why I think we see when you're looking at research on sauna and like decreasing the risk of all cause mortality, it's because you're getting up by proxy. Some of the things that you would also get if you exercised regularly, but now.
Most of these hot rooms are what one thirty to fifty one thirty one sixty where it's like for a sauna to be effective and correct me if I'm wrong, it's like it's got to be one eighty five plus. I think what we see is a lot of the research that's been historically done was historically done in steam saunas that are way hotter.
I don't think from my understanding of the literature. You still see the benefits even at lower temperatures, but your exposure might be a little longer, right? So like maybe you could sit in 212 for 10 minutes, but you could sit at 150 for 30, right? But listen, I mean, you're definitely getting a neurological response from this, but it's not when people think they're going to go into these rooms, these yoga rooms or Pilates rooms and do this and it's going to change your physiology.
It's going to change your, it's just another variable you're adding to that equation. Yeah, I don't think, yeah, you're, you're making the room hotter. It doesn't, it's not necessarily going to change your muscle tissue. No, no, no. I mean, again, we see some hypertrophic benefit to using heat after training after training because you're kind of reinforcing or reengaging that inflammatory response, which unlocks kind of like the gene sequence for protein synthesis.
So we do get. A benefit at least a hypertrophic benefit. But again, if you're doing yoga hot, there's not a lot of Mechanical tension or tension on the tissue to really stimulate muscle growth with that, you know Pilates seam thing is usually generally lower load or mat Pilates and I love Pilates. I think it's great Yeah, anything that gets people moving is awesome So i'm not wanting to make this sound like a knock on any of those systems, but adding hot to kettlebell as if it's going to Extremely improve Like physique outcomes not it's probably not moving the needle all that much if any at my event We try to do everything.
We have yoga. We have cold plunging. We have Pilates. We have everything. However, can you help the audience out there understand what is actually what's physically what's going on in our bodies biologically or Muscularly when we lift weights verse doing Pilates or yoga, right? Because I think there's a lot The thing I hear the most, especially on the internet and from clients, my body has never looked better or changed more than when I started doing Pilates.
Okay. Can you actually change your physiology from doing Pilates? Of course. Of course. Yeah. You know, it's, you know, again, a lot of thought. Are you going to build a ton of muscle? No. It's just not enough external load or stimulus. So like even like maybe if you do a mega former, but if you're on a regular, listen, full disclosure, my wife is a Pilates instructor.
Yeah. We have two reformers in our house. So I've done, it's not like I've never done it before. I think the value of Pilates is you, you by default, spend more time at. Bigger, larger end ranges of motion. So from a mobility perspective, I think you'll feel better, right? You're holding tension in these positions.
It knows some body control, some coordination, some balance. Awesome. But if the goal is, you know, and again, I think. What you're seeing is what is Pilates appeal to? Well, it appeals more to women because there's that still that stigma and fear that weightlifting is gonna make make a woman look bulky or more Like a man which ladies don't worry about that because I'm I'm still trying to get too bulky and I can't do it So you're gonna be fine, you know and but I think it's anytime you're doing something consistently for a long period of time and this is Why it's important to have some entertainment value that people like what you're doing because it's going to get them to stick to it.
Yeah, and that's what's going to get them the result. So, so I think it's like, Hey, if you like Pilates and you feel good and you do that multiple times a week, more power to you. Awesome. Keep going. You're good. But if your goal is, I want to put on muscle. Is it the best tool for that job? No, it's numb.
Doesn't mean it doesn't have a time and a place. It doesn't mean it hasn't helped hundreds of thousands of people since its inception. But again, Joseph Pilates came up with that as like a fitness thing for soldiers who were unable to work out or exercise traditionally. So it's like where the TRX came from.
They were like, Oh, we have nothing out in the field. I mean, I got this parachute strap that I could use as fucking a tool to help me. Yeah, it's absolutely one of the best fitness inventions of all time. From a strap. You hear that, Jack? My buddy Jack owns TRX. That's awesome. And, uh, I tell him that all the time.
I go, it's hands down. One of the greatest tools to ever hit the fitness market for hands down. I love it. I have in every gym. I think every gym should have it. Um, but anyway. And I try to drill this into my staff's mind as well, that they think you need some special program, whether it's Pilates or, uh, a certain type of, uh, you know, training program that they need to do, right?
There's this, like, special program that only certain people could program for. Right. Right. Ha ha ha. Um, but I tell them, I go, every program works. I will find you a thousand great programs that contradict other great programs. The number one thing to help you with programming is to stay consistent. Right.
Hands down. Sure. Just keep fucking doing it, you know, and I think that's what a lot of people are seeing is like they're like I like going to this class because she plays the music I like and it's a dark room and blah blah blah That's what gets you like show up at the same time every week and and it's I go four times a week Right.
That's what you're doing different. It's not the fucking Pilates. It's the fact that you're being consistent. And, but eventually you're going to hit a plateau point and you're going to need something else, which I encourage people to go out there and find something else. Sure. And then after you find that other thing, you run through that cycle.
Then you could go back to Pilates and be even better at whatever those things are. I had a recent client who. You know, middle aged mom in really good shape, you know, but she's, you know, she's doing hot kettlebell classes and all these things, all these classes. And, you know, now she's, as she's gotten older, she's developed some low back stuff, some hip pain.
And I'm like, well, that's part of. The issue when you give everybody the same programming is some people are going to do really well with it. Some people are going to just kind of float around the middle. This is again the standard distribution of probability. Some people are going to float around in the middle and some people are going to get hurt.
Because they just don't maybe have the prerequisites or the control or the mobility to do whatever that thing is effectively and efficiently. So she started dealing with you know, and she's training six days a week and all these different things and i'm like She's like, oh, do I have to completely stop this stuff?
I'm like, no, I'm like, do you like it? She's like, I love it. I'm like, that's awesome. I was like the devil is the dose. She can't do a hot kettlebell class six days a week Yeah, it's just cuz there's not a lot of recovery time and you adding that additional heat stress is stress on your body So I was like, why don't we do this?
Why don't you do she was expecting me to like take away all of it I'm like You love it. Great. Let's do that two or three days a week. Let's give you a little bit more of a customized resistance training program to supplement that with two days a week so that you're having your five days a week of exercise.
We're spreading out the thing that the irritant right now. So you have a little bit more recovery time in between and in between we'll insert some specificity for you as an individual. And she was like, I can't believe I can still do that. I'm like, why? But that's what people are conditioned to is like, Oh, it hurts.
Now I have to stop. It's like, no, there's always ways to manipulate that and to have your cake and eat it too. And that's what I love about what we do is like, let's find you a solution. There is a solution for everybody. It's just a matter of, Hey, what do you like? What do you not like? What do you want?
What's your goal? What have you struggled with in the past? What have you tried and not succeeded with? And then finding that right blend of ingredients that gets them the outcome that they're looking for. Mm. Yeah. No, I, I've been struggling with that over the past two months with the new gym, um, introducing people to a safer, more effective program.
And a lot of these people have come from a CrossFit background where they're like, I have to move a hundred miles an hour every day and crush myself. And I say to them, we're going to hit upper body twice a week. We're going to lower body twice a week. And then we have these two conditioning days where they're like, you want to go a hundred, you want to, you want to crush yourself.
That's your chance to do it. But I'm not, For, for the guys out there and the girls out there who are like, I need to go, go, go, go, go. I'm like, do that, but go do it somewhere else. If you need to do that every day, then you don't understand the wear and tear that you're putting on your body. You're going to see more results when you separate it, when you give the body a chance to recover.
Well, that's where the result happens, right? Is the recovery, not the training stimulus. It's like you, you recover and you grow muscle. You recover and get better mobility. You recover and Have less pain. Like it's not the, the actual stimulus. That's the debt. Like that's the destructive part. Technically.
Yeah. Well, and what's your, cause I've been hearing that a lot recently on social media about people saying there's a lot of research with, um, This idea that you're not necessarily breaking down tissue. That's an old. Yeah, you're not. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So what's kind of give it what kind of walk us through the new understanding because that was the understanding for a very long time that you're breaking down muscle tissue and that rebuilds bigger, rebuilds.
Yeah. Yeah. So again, it's, I think this is kind of where and you don't words matter. Yeah. And I, and I think it's. Not a misinterpretation of research. It's just where it's like the telephone game. It's like as this information gets reiterated People use a little bit more poetic license in the way that they communicate it to make it easily Understand to make it easy more easily understandable to simplify it yet.
Also Convey the concept or the message, right? So I think that Storyline, it makes sense, but there's, there's a technically two different types of muscle hypertrophy. We can grow the volume of cells, right? And then we have to also be able to increase the number of muscle fibers, right? So the first thing that happens when we start training our newbie gains and you start to see a little size increase, is the individual muscle fibers just increase in their volume.
Okay. They just become a little bit bigger. Right? And then once you've maxed out that, that, um, physiological output for that tissue, right? So first thing that happens is a neurological adaptation, then the muscle fiber size increases by its volume. Therefore, you look a little bit bigger. And then once you kind of max that out, as long as your calories are there, your recovery, your sleep and all that stuff is there, you'll start to add more muscle fiber.
So you can't. So I was always under the understanding that you can't add muscle. Like you have. This finite amount of muscle fibers and you could make them healthier, have them grow more, but you couldn't add fibers again. This is, yeah, you can. Um, but we have a gene called myostatin that limits how much of that can happen.
So have you ever seen, um, like those viral images of like the bull who's like fucking jacked or the hit bull or the mouse that looks like it's on juice. So what those are are genetically modified animals. Where myostatin has been removed. So, myostatin is the gene that signals the body to stop producing muscle.
And, um, I think, um, I think, I don't know if it's Eddie Hall or, I think it might be Eddie Hall. He was the current world record for the deadlift. He has a genetic mutation that limits his myostatin. So he almost has no upper ceiling for where he has less of a ceiling for muscle growth and physical output.
Wow. So, okay. I wish I had that. I yeah, fuck sounds as well. The genetic mutations to get like one that makes you fucking hulk Yeah, that's fucking cool. Yeah, he's he's an x man, but he also then happened to get into strength sports Yeah, like we're the perfect storm genetically like you were talking about strong man, which yeah exactly, right?
So he happened to get into the right sport With this one very rare genetic mutation, and then look what he's done with it. Right? So again, I think and maybe I'm wrong Maybe maybe I have to go back and double down and research this more like I'm always willing to be wrong Yeah, and go in and learn more but my understanding Classically has been that yeah, you can put on muscle fiber.
There is an upper limit to that genetically, you know obviously what and then also like what's Realistic and sustainable and you know, everything reaches a point of diminishing return I work with a lot of pro bodybuilders, you know who obviously use anabolics to achieve their physique And it's like some of that size though for a long period but that's because once you gain the fiber You don't lose the fiber.
Yeah, if you stop training, it'll shrink in its volume But then now we have research that's really interesting that says like oh if you train really intensely for Like let's say a few years and then you stop training for a year Completely and then go back to it or have these long Like deload periods where you're not training at all and then you go back to it You almost get better long term gains like that, which is interesting Now again is does that mean it's the best way or the right way to do it?
No, because there's way more benefits to regular exercise than just muscle growing, right? and this is also kind of my problem with social media in the sense that like Your value and knowledge in the fitness industry is directly correlated with how big you are. So what, now we just listen to a bunch of guys who abuse anabolics regularly?
Yeah, I mean, what's your, what's your take on, uh, like somebody like Sam Sulek? Like, you got this young kid who's using a ton of gear, which I, that's the one thing where like people sing his praises. I, like, I like the kid. I think he's, I think he's very, um, Very vulnerable and good for the industry and the fact that like he's put he puts himself out there he works with a lot of the older guys, which I love that he pays homage to like the Jay Cutler's and these guys and But at the same time I just feel bad for him because I'm like he's gonna be so fucked up later on in life and everybody's Like everybody enjoys it now, but he's gonna I mean, I don't know what that is.
I can there's a price For everything. Yeah, there's always a price and he looks great. I mean the kid looks fantastic, but at the same time like Fuck, I I i'm so glad because at our age, uh, you know when we were younger and you know guys were using gear And I was super into bodybuilding at the time and I was always like, oh, I should take it I should i'm so glad I didn't take it.
I'm so glad that I was A division one lacrosse player because they did cross my mind multiple times, especially coming off the knee because I'm struggling so much. I was like, maybe I'll just to do a cycle to help me get over this hump and I was so petrified of popping a drug test. I was like, no, I'm not going to do it.
It's not worth it. Right. And thank God I had that guardrail in my life because I had friends that did and they've and they fucked themselves up because now their hormones are, are messed up for life. You know, again, there's a cost. I got three buddies who are all using testosterone. Earlier than they should have been right and all wound up with like gynecomastia.
So like this huge, weird looking nipple, just one of them, and it was gross. And every one of them had to have it cut out and it's. Horrible, you know, and I think a lot of these guys don't understand like that could happen now at our as you get older You don't have as much testosterone. So you're really not fucking with anything as much, right?
You know, so that's when they're like, oh you hit a certain age Yeah, you should you know dose also like when you go to a reputable TRT provider for sure and you're doing it medically And you're doing you know consistent blood work it now that testosterone represents a tool. Mm hmm to improve your health.
But again Point of diminishing return. More isn't always better, right? And that's kind of this like Goldilocks effect in our health that, that I think We, we should as an industry maybe appreciate that dosing a little bit more, a little bit better. And that's my gripe with like, you know, what we, we idolize these, you know, bodybuilders or like, you know, strong men or people who have used drugs to achieve some level of what they have and I'm not Discrediting the work taking gear doesn't mean you get big right?
It's like they still had a Sacrifice and put a tremendous amount of effort and consistency into achieving what they have So I don't want to take that away from them, but does that automatically by by proxy make them an expert at this? It's like okay. I'm not the most you know, you look at my physique and i'm like Average fit guy, you know what I mean?
I'm not an Italian kid from like, yeah, exactly. I'm a little taller. Maybe that's it You know, I'm not and I'm not like stopping people on the beach in Mexico, you know Yeah, holy shit. Look at that guy, but it's like I'm healthy and I feel good and I don't you know what I mean? That's my goal isn't just to be the biggest guy I can be wait.
I want to move well When people look at certain people on the internet, especially, and they see somebody with a great physique, most of the time, these people were blessed with great genetics on top of now, working hard on top of now using gear. So it's like the perfect storm. Like they happen to have great genetics.
They happen to work their ass off. And now on top of that, now they're using gear. So you look at somebody like, um, See bump. Mm hmm. And you're like even when he first started he looked pretty good as he started to dose in more Hard work as well as more gear The guy's like untouchable. He looks incredible.
People think, oh, if I could, if he could look like that, so could I. It's, you know. And that's, and, and again. As a former fat kid, it's, it's very fucking hard to fight genetics. Right. As well as, you know, um. Circumstance. Circumstance, yeah. And I'm not willing to put my, you know, my body through that. Right. You know, because I think there's definitely complications with it and stuff.
Well, I mean, my whole thing too is like, you know. If you follow Generation Iron, it's almost like a Rolodex of guys dying. Or, or like, watch WWE. Yeah. Look at that. Right, yeah. I always thought I wanted that life. As a kid, I, I mean, I say all the time. They're like real life superheroes, you know. Yeah. I said all the time.
I'm like, the one thing I regret. You know, I wrestle back and forth to it. I'm like, had I have tried to become a pro wrestler, where I would have been. So what faction would you have been in? Cause we grew up in the Attitude Era when, when WWE was a little bit more fucking crazy. Yeah, I would have loved to been a part of like DX or something.
Yeah, I totally had you pegged for a DX guy. I would have loved, that was right up my alley, just fucking. Yeah, the anti establishment, yeah, you know, that would have been good. Yeah, I don't know if, uh, like now looking back, you see how like volatile some of those guys were. I mean, but again, it's, that's a tremendously difficult lifestyle.
Oh, you know what I mean? Like, and that's the other part of like, I think it's worse than people like people like. It's so easy to criticize a pro athlete. Like this dude went, Oh, for forward three strikeouts. Yeah. He just also got off a freaking transcontinental flight. Well, let me tell you, you know, and didn't sleep.
And like, how do you expect these guys to perform? Here's, here's my take on pro wrestling. Now, a lot of guys in the NFL and the NBA happen to be blessed with like great genetics. They can't. Necessarily use supplements or anything like that. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure some guys sneaking in there. However, I believe that pro wrestling is the hardest sport.
And let me make my points here before you guys all jumped down my throat. Okay, because I know there's a bunch of people out there like you're an idiot. Here's why you have to have the discipline and look like a bodybuilder, but be able to move. Right. Like, a middle linebacker. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. But at the same time, like, if you look in these guys, you're like, when a, uh, somebody like Brock Lesnar backflips off the top rope, you're talking about a 270 pound fucking guy.
Right. Backflipping off the top of the fucking Right, like you're landing in such a way where it's convincing enough that it looks real, but he's not doing damage that guy. Yeah, and you're, you're, you're built like a bodybuilder. So you're using a ton of shit. You're doing the same thing. A bodybuilder zone might not be as shredded, but you're Pretty close to it.
You're an acrobat and you're an athlete. Yeah, like you and and now there's no offseason No, yeah, you're doing professional stuntman work 300 days a year all the time. So those guys really cool Yeah, I look I don't watch it as much as I used to and I I've always appreciated it And I think a lot of people out there should give them the credit they deserve.
I absolutely agree with you No, I'll tell you what I've been impressed by. I hate that. I have to say this, but Logan Paul. Yeah, he's a fucking incredible athlete like that kid for Um, marketing genius made his money in that. And when you see him in the ring, like, I don't know how much you watch it, I've seen clips of it.
I, I, like I'm with you. Like I kind of grew WWE and don't really watch it much anymore. I have one, uh, he's in TNA now, but he's a former or easy, easy ECW now, but he was former WWE client that I work with who, and again, it's just really cool to like work with some of those guys and get to hear the stories of like.
It's a fucking hard. It's a grind. It's such a grind, but they do it because they love it. Yeah, you know, and it's such a cool mix of like art, you know, athleticism, you know, storytelling. Yeah, you know, on top of being a fucking actor, you have to be like, believable enough that you're like this villain or this good guy or whatever it is, right?
Like I am. Was on MTV or whatever and I was pretty No, you weren't. Lucky enough and I was lucky enough to know The Miz Okay, and he had taken me to Wrestlemania a couple times We you know, obviously and I remember we were sitting having dinner one night And my brother came and we were all sitting there and he's like, I was like, dude, man, I should have become a wrestler.
I should have, he goes, listen, dude, he goes, I love it, but it's a very, very hard game on your body, on your mind. You like, there's a lot that goes into it. And he goes, and there's no off season. And it's true. Like these guys will have 15, 20, 30 year careers. Like look at the undertaker. Yeah. No. I mean, this guy was relevant.
I remember when he first came out, like 91, right? And he retired, what, three, four years ago. And it's like, you see the way he walks and stuff. But this guy was a pro athlete day in and day out for decades, decades. And he used to seven foot. And now you talk about, look, look at the price. Yeah. Barely walk.
Yeah. He's in a chronic pain every day. And it's like, okay, there's always a price. You pay a price for everything. Yeah. Whether you want to or not, but again, it's, it's always about that balance of risk and reward. Right. And you'll reap the benefits of your choices, but also you'll, the consequences, the consequences.
And as long as you're okay with that, you know, and if you talk to some of those guys, I don't know if you watched the Vince McMahon documentary. Awesome. So good. It was like nostalgia into, yeah, you had to, it was like, I don't watch wrestling anymore, but I'm like, I got to watch it. I like the documentaries and stuff.
It's really cool. I'm like American gladiators. Like it seemed so good. What, what a great insight to that world because I was obsessed with that as a kid. Right. And then also, uh. Would never go today. No. No. People would be just outraged. Would, would you want to, okay, so as a kid of the 90s. Okay. If you had the opportunity, you could do Guts.
I would have fucking crushed Guts. Gladiator. As a competitor? Yeah. Legends of the Hidden Temple. Oh my God. Or double dare which if I had to pick you pick one if you they were like yo You could go back in time and go on one of those shows I would probably pick Oh, man But not as a kid. You can't do american if I was a kid probably guts.
Yeah, because I I used to watch that show and be like, I could do that. These kids suck. It's like, turn the head around, you idiot. Like, why can't you get that? I don't understand. It just frustrate me. I'm like, man, I heard the same thing. Pick me. I've heard that so many times about like being on the show, like the amount of people who'd come up to me and be like, dude, if I was on that show, I would have kicked your ass.
I'm like, yeah, sure. You and everybody else until you're up there hanging out at the side of a helicopter and you got to fucking dive through a ring. You're like, yeah, right. It looks easy. Yeah. When you're sitting on your couch covered in Cheeto dust, you know, that's everybody's approach. You're sitting there and they're like, Well, I could totally do that.
No, I, I, I do believe that though. I would have crushed guts for sure. Yeah. Like the agrokrag. No, I, I just think gladiators had the best events. Oh, so cool. But like you had to be like a legit athlete, uh, even, even hang. Here's what's crazy when they put up the stats, like as a kid, you didn't get it. Like when I was younger, I didn't understand what a six foot three, 245 pound guy looks like because he's standing next to like tower or some shit Who's six eight three hundred pounds, right?
You're like this guy's a pussy and you're like, no that guy's just just Normally huge, you know, and he's just digging him into the ground like that What was that one where you had to take the ball and put in like one of the oh, like yeah. Yeah. Yeah Oh god and having a three. It was like a football nfl drill.
Yeah like for Yeah. And having a 300 pound fucking bodybuilder just standing in your way. Yeah. It's like, no, no, that's not for him. But I loved it. I loved the, the ball shooting, the tennis ball shooting. It was that, that was a shit man. They don't make TV like they used to. So good. You know, now you see shit and you're like, reality television is cheaply made shit.
It's about some scripted drama, a bunch of guys, you know, trying to bang one girl or you got fucking a bunch of broads fighting each other. It's. It's miserable. They need like a, uh, like a competition based show. Yeah. But people get too sensitive now. People get too sensitive. It's like, Oh, but that person's going to get her or that person.
Great. Yeah. That was the point. It's like, I mean, people love the N the most watch thing every week is the NFL. Those guys are, you hear the pops. I remember watching, it was like two weeks ago, somebody had a game on and I was watching it and I heard this guy, I was at my. Sister's house and just a collision of these two guys.
I'm like, Oh my God, I couldn't imagine being like getting hit in the cold like that. I played football in high school and I remember I played in Jersey city and we were right on the water and it was so fucking cold when I, and the first play of the game before you're like warmed up and shit, it was right at Liberty state park.
So the wind's coming off, it's like fucking November, like October, November, so cold that night, and I remember running into somebody, I played the line, I was a fat kid, I played the line, and smashing into somebody, and the snot came straight out of my nose, and every bone in my body just hurt, I'm like, this Fuck, this is going to be a long night.
I was, uh, I was an all county football player in Long Island, which isn't saying an awful lot at the time. I played tight end and I was a defensive end, um, and then my first job as an athletic trainer, I was at the University of Florida during like the Tim Tebow era. So I was on the field for that national championship game against Oklahoma.
So it was a game. What? Where Miami. It was in Miami. Right. So it was warm. But when you see, so here, you know, coming off of like a successful high school football career on Long Island, and then I go down to Gainesville, Florida, and I'm watching kids now that are younger than me, like 18, 19 years old, that are 6'5 Two 50 running a four, three, four, four 40.
And it's, and you watch that live on the sideline. It's like, that's a different thing. Yeah. That's not the same game that I played. No, like, because I thought I was a pretty good athlete. You know, they ran a 52nd, 400. I was like, Oh man, I'm pretty good. Like I can run then you get down there and I'm watching these girls.
I'm like, holy shit. Yeah. Well, where did these 18 years old? 18 years old as strong big. Yeah. Well, I mean my buddy always talked about it. We joke around So many people like watch the Olympics and they're like, oh I could have done that And you're like, they should always put in one, one person just to show everybody how fast and how strong everyone else is.
Right. And how shitty the average person escalation because all of these and like, that's my whole thing. It's, it's, it's always fun to have these like debates in the clinic of like, Oh, who's better at Michael Jordan or LeBron, right? People always have really hard opinions on that. I was like, it's a different game.
The game has evolved because the athletes have evolved. It's not, I have one client who he was a middle linebacker for the Detroit Lions all through the nineties. So when I played peewee football, he was like the local legend that everybody knew about because he made it to the NFL. And so we used to have like our team banquets and he would come and like sign autographs.
And then, you know, fast forward 20 years, I have my. My clinic and he shows up because he, you know, he's, he's all coaching high school football. He's a strength coach. He's all banged up. And he's like, Oh Mike, it's really nice to meet you. I've heard great things about you. He's like, actually, we've met a number of times.
And he was like, Oh my God, I'm so sorry. Uh, I've been hitting the head a lot. Like I forget really easy. I'm like, no, I'm kidding. It was like from the banquets when we were little kids, he wouldn't have remembered me. But when we moved into the new facility, I found his jersey on eBay and he's like one of my best clients like every week never misses Great energy is just like the the if I could clone them and have 50 of those and just that That would be like that.
You all have right you have that client. You know what I'm talking about We all have that client that were like if I could just clone you if I could have everyone just act like you right So I was like we got to buy this fuck. It was like 7. 99 on ebay It's like buy it. I frame it. I put it up because I knew he was coming in Yeah And it was really just meant as a joke, but also be like an appreciation things like we really appreciate like everything he's the referrals all the kind words, right?
So he walks in, he goes, Oh, God, who ruined your wall? Take that thing down, you know, it's like, why would you hang that up? You know, and it's just like, well, because we, you know, appreciate you being part of our community, but he's just a very humble guy. It's like, man, I would never make it. I wouldn't even sniff a sideline in today's NFL.
Yeah, well, that's because of how athletic these guys are. It's just not the same game. Yeah. Well, I mean, listen, even with, uh, bodybuilding, right? I was talking to a buddy of mine. Like Arnold wouldn't even break the top 20 right now in the men's like classic physique. It's even like I mean bodybuilding such a weird sport just because it's like it gets to this crazy point like even in like women's bodybuilding, right?
They're like, oh, it's getting too dangerous. These girls getting too big We're gonna get rid of the division of bodybuilding and just keep them everything smaller And then what happens all those weight classes just continue to move up Yeah, or like men's physique men's physique back in the 2010 11 12 when it first came out was like guys that Like you could compete men's physique because like look great in a bathing suit, you know, trim, you got abs, you're cut.
Now these men's physique guys are like fucking enormous. Now they can move up in, in categories. Like, I mean, C Bump was doing the classic. Now he's like, Oh, I'm just going to go to the open class. Yeah. And you're like, Jesus. I know. It's, it's, again, it's, um, I, I really admire those athletes and I do consider them athletes, but I think societally we kind of look at, we put these.
Athletes on a pedestal for the achievements that they've made. Like, you know, like, and again, C bump, I think he's great. You know, he's on all these big podcasts and like, he's good at lifting weights. You know, like let's put this into the context of reality of like, you know, again, not to take away the achievement.
Yeah, I think arguably the best to ever do it, maybe. Yeah, I think the admiration comes from one, he was definitely blessed with great genetics. Two, he's got an incredible work ethic. And I think that's where the admiration comes from with a lot of these people. That's the part that's due, but it's like, does that mean he's able to help you get to that?
No, he's a different, he's a different type of guy. I tell people all the time, it's like, I'm working with this pro athlete. I'm like, listen, just because you can work a light switch doesn't mean you know how to wire house. There's a big difference between those two things. You could be really good at doing it and not good at coaching.
And that's the other part too, is like people, I don't want to get into a fitness career. It's like, why do you want to get into a fitness career or rehab career? It's like, well, I, you know, because I really love fitness, it's like your passion for your personal fitness doesn't necessarily translate to you being a good coach.
Now, if you're really into it because you get satisfaction from seeing other people succeed, then you're going to do a great job. And if you're passionate about it for yourself, even better. But I think that's why we see a lot of burnout and a lot of turnover in the fitness industry, like people. I think the average fitness career is like two or three years.
It's not long and people get into because like, I love fitness. I think I can do this as a profession. And it's like, It's not easy. It's very hard and it's very difficult. And it's a very small business with very small margins. You know, it's uh, it's little margins, lots of hours. It's lots of face time with people.
So you have to be good with people. You have to be good at fielding people's problems and being an outlet for that. And some people don't have the emotional bandwidth for, you know, taking on other people's problems, you know. And that's what you're doing. And that's what you're doing most of it. That's what it is.
Uh, so I respect and admire your business and what you've done, uh, and your level and your level of knowledge within the space. Uh, if there are three people. You know, cause we all have social media. We're all following it. Like you're doing a great job and I think anybody out there who doesn't know Mike should definitely check out his work because he's got a ton of great nuggets in there.
He's got a great YouTube channel. He's got a great Instagram. Um, but who are three people that you recommend that other people should follow? Like who are three people that you're like, you know, I really like look, I look forward to seeing this content on a weekly or daily basis, whether they're athletic trainers, trainers, Coaches, whatever it may be in our space, I would say probably one of the, one of my favorites is Charlie Weingroff, love Charlie.
I just love his, his ability to communicate complex stuff in ways that are digestible and understandable. He's very entertaining as well as extremely knowledgeable and a trailblazer, obviously in the rehab, physical therapy worlds, as far as like that bridge between fitness and rehab, which is the line I've kind of walked for.
My entire career. So he's he's been a big influence on he doesn't have as big a following on instagram as he should. I think I don't think but he really he recently started putting up a lot more stuff. Um, so charlie wine grow. Who else should I should people absolutely be following? Um, uh, trying to that's so just so hard.
I'm trying to think of the accounts that I genuinely are like, man, that I love the way that made me think about this problem. But, um, Man, that's tough. Charlie, definitely. You know who I've been following for quite some time and I really like the way he approaches a lot of strength training and, um, you know, just the way he coaches is, uh, Daru.
Oh, Phil Daru. His stuff is great, too. He's got great shit. Yeah. I like him. Yeah. Very, very clear. Mm hmm. Articulate. He understands what he's doing. Smart guy. I think he's developed his own little system out of the, the Westside barbell type stuff. Right. But again, Bruce Lee method. Right. He's taken, he's adapted the core of what he loves from that, but also went and got other stuff to mix into that.
Right. And I think what you see. For these like really successful fitness or rehab people's like that's what you're gonna see. Yeah, you're gonna see people who are Okay walking outside of the group think and adapt other things and be Comfortable with mixing and matching and making it their own, right?
Um, yeah, I think you know vernon griff griffith on that respect. He's got some great stuff. He's a good joey burgles. I like his stuff Um, you know Connor Harris puts out really good. Connor Harris is great too. Yeah, puts out really good content young guy, too He's very young. And again, what mostly what he's talking about is PRI.
Yeah, he doesn't call it PRI. Yeah, but that's what it is Yeah, you know, he mixes in some other stuff too. He takes a lot of crap on on social media Yeah, I know and again, it's like that's a system of approach. It doesn't mean it's the system It's just for some people that's helpful If they're dealing with asymmetries or imbalances and things like that Yeah, Vernon Griffiths stuff I love I think there's another one that I really like there's so many great accounts on there I just think part of it the biggest piece that I would say is just like everything you got to take everything with a grain Of salt including my content because my content comes from my perspective a lot of people like oh you use manual therapy Therefore you're a quack.
I'm like Yeah. That was the thing that helped me. I was in chronic pain for fucking years. And then I met Andy Clock at the University of Florida. I had chronic, I had a saphenous nerve entrapment in my, from my ACL reconstruction. So the saphenous nerve is, uh, it kind of like some of the branches tie into like right behind your patella.
And then it runs down the inside part of your shin into the top of your foot. So for years I'd run and I feel like this lightning bolt down my shin. And it was super painful. It almost felt like I had a piece of metal stuck in my shoe. And like every time I moved my ankle or I would run and cut on it, it was just agonizing.
It was terrible. I went to every different doctor, therapist, chiro, acupuncture. I did everything I could do. No, everybody was like, oh, syndinitis, just rest it, blah, blah, blah. Andy at the University of Florida is like, dude, your scar doesn't move at all. He's like, and he started doing like this really deep, deep tissue work on my quad and my hip and manipulating the skin so that it would slide a little bit better within a month.
I never had the problem again. And I'm like, what the fuck? It was four years later. I'm like, what the fuck? That's how nobody ever figured this out. And I'm watching him work with athletes and he's instantly changing how they move. I'm like, dude, this is, this is where it's at. And again, But it doesn't fix people per se.
It's just a facilitation, right? So I kind of live in that world where it's like I love fitness and movement and I like Rolling my sleeves up and actually doing the work and helping like helping people right now. Um, like we did with you Yeah, he's like, oh man, I got some relief great. Now. We have an opportunity to train Without you feeling like crap.
Yeah, it was great Well, listen guys, if you don't uh already follow mike follow mike stella on instagram and then what's your youtube channel? YouTube channel is The Movement Underground. Movement Underground. Yeah. And then if you're out on Long Island, don't. Not stop by the movement. Please do. It's a great spot.
Definitely go check him out. Uh, and don't judge him just because he's a Guinea from Long Island. It's just as bad as being from New Jersey guys. Thank you so much. Like subscribe and check out the strongest podcast every week right here on YouTube. Uh, what, what do we have it on YouTube? Got some clips on Instagram, Spotify, and Apple music.
All right. See you guys soon. My man.