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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
DIY with Cody Buriff
00:00
Hey guys, welcome to this week's episode of the Restorative Man podcast. My name is Cody Burriff and this week I've got Jesse French with me. Jesse, how you doing? I'm good, Cody. How are you doing today? I'm doing all right. I am excited to be here talking with you. I get to talk to you like multiple times a week, but usually it's not recorded. So this is kind of fun. I know it is fun. It is fun. Man. I agree. Today we get to talk about a subject that you and I have.
00:28
Kind of directly indirectly in different ways over the years, engaged and seen some of the glories, seen some of the wreckage of our own. And that this is the space of like DIY projects. Just uttering that phrase feels like the can of worms is open. Yes, indeed. Indeed. Jesse, when you think of DIY projects and you think of that can of worms opening, I know you've got.
00:55
at least a couple of probably a half dozen crazy stories. What's something maybe recent or that went really well or really poorly in the DIY space for yourself? Oh, man. Yeah. So the one that comes up to mind quickly is this is maybe like two or three years ago. And the disclaimer here, I don't want to give off some sort of misconception that I'm this like super handy car mechanic guy at all. So that is not me. I like.
01:24
in lots of ways want to be that, which maybe informed some of the motivation for the story. But let's just be clear people, I'm not that guy. And so I think it was two or three years ago, my wife's car was an older car and just like started having issues and we're like, okay, is it battery is an alternator? And all the while I'm just like, can we not take it into the mechanic? Like we have a great mechanic, but can we just save that money and try to just diagnose it ourselves? Totally. So
01:51
do the whole, you know, take it to AutoZone and test the different things and basically get it to where we're like, okay, I think the starter is bad, which would make sense, it's a way older car. And so, right, Naive Jessie is like, well, let's, you know, YouTube, how you replace a starter in this 18 year old car. And of course there's the video that I watched and I'm like, well, shoot, that doesn't look that hard. Like I should be able to do that. So like go to AutoZone, buy the part, bring it back and I'll save like,
02:21
so many hours of like consternation of like working under the car and actually getting to the place where I could remove the old starter, you know, my knuckles are getting tore up. I'm totally just like cursing, you know, it's 94 degrees in July because I'm an idiot. And, you know, it's just like this huge struggle. And so probably take, you know, and you know, the other thing too, is you've got your stupid phone out and you're like under the car and you're trying to like,
02:50
I'm just getting my butt kicked. And so finally after it feels like all day, I finally get the starter, like replaced moment of truth, go turn the ignition in the car and nothing happens. Oh geez. And I just am like totally crushed. Right. So I'm in a bad place, you know, just like all of my effort is in vain. And my wife very wisely is just like, okay.
03:19
We do have a great mechanic. Maybe we could just take it in and just have them look at it. Right? Like you've gone through the process. It's okay to go ask for help and begrudging and like, fine. Yeah, whatever. I don't care. So we like tow it in and wave the white flag. Total wave the white flag. Right. I like sheepishly walk into the office, tell them what happened. And the guy's like, sure, man, we'll take a look. Like very generous, you know, I had no appointment, whatever. And so.
03:49
He like comes out. His name's Barry to which he's a mechanic, right? His name has to be Barry. And so Barry pops the hood and kind of fiddles with some stuff. He like goes, grabs a pair of channel locks, tightens the battery cable on the terminal of the battery. And he's like, you should try it now. And the frickin’ thing starts like a champ. And I was like, equally.
04:18
Totally so pissed at myself right just like irate and then also like so relieved of okay I actually kind of worked except this one really small little part but I messed up and so that feels like that has the whole roller coaster arc of emotions Wow I hate it when it's like I have a problem and then I take it to an expert and they literally just look at it and It works like Seriously, like they have their magic eye that just makes it better man
04:48
That's wow. Yep. It's a little details matter, I guess. The details do matter. They do matter. Uh, I'm sorry. Man. Why did we feel like, yeah, let's explore this space here today. As you think about some of the DIY realm. And I know that's one that you're very experienced with. Why do you think that space matters and is worthy of some exploration here today? Yeah. I mean, Jesse, when I think about DIY and I think about.
05:17
how that is experienced in the world of men, in the relationships and the guys that I know, at least, and even inside myself, there are a lot of little things at play. There's a lot of story, there's a lot of comparison, there's a lot of shame, pressure and pride, and there's a whole lot going on there that seems worth exploring and talking about. Yeah, I totally agree. Why do you think that's so? Let's even just take some of the pressure
05:47
Like we'll just take that piece. Cause I feel that, but I'm curious for you. Like when we think about undertaking some project that we don't know, or maybe aren't that familiar, but we're just going to do it ourselves and figure that out. Why do you think that pressure dynamic is present in a play for men? Yeah. I mean, there's probably lots of reasons. The one that really jumps forward to me right now as we're talking is, um, there's this kind of underlying sense, I think that most of us have at least that we're supposed to know how to do it.
06:16
Like we're just supposed to know. Yep. Which probably isn't the case. So it's actually probably not true that we're supposed to know, but for some reason, you know, we all feel like that. We all believe that that's the case. So when we don't, it's shameful, right? Yes. So dumb. Totally. Right. Cause don't you think there is this real or fictitious stereotype of the guy who I am supposed to be and that guy has.
06:44
these 58 skills and you know I've got three of them right? It's supposed to be like MacGyver and 007 and whatever right? Like yeah that's what a man can do he can change his brakes, he can fix the leaking plumbing or whatever right? That's what a man is. It's like this phantom man. Yes, yes totally.
07:09
And it's interesting, right? Because when you sort of name some of those things, right? Of just like, yeah, change your breaks or again, like in like fill in the blank of whatever skill, when you talk about it in this way, or when I talk about someone else, it feels more generous to be like, well, you should only be able to learn, or you should only learn that if you had someone actually like teach you, right? Like this is the process of apprenticeship, of mentoring, right? Like that's actually what's needed. And yet that's, that's.
07:38
That's not the tape that plays in my head, right? It's like, hey, I wasn't shown that. And yet still the expectation is that I should be able to know how to do that. Totally. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, when I look around, it's like most of the guys I know, their dads did not teach them how to. How to do, you know, little things. They probably taught him a few things, right? But most guys don't know how to change their oil. Most guys don't know how to.
08:04
to like swap out an outlet or whatever the like little things are that are kind of like just a little maintenancey DIY kind of tasks. Like most guys, their dads didn't teach them. And frankly, I think we're getting to the point where their dads didn't even know. Correct. I think you're right. Yep. So couldn't pass that on. And which is super strange. And then when you, you know, contrast that with our current reality that like, and if you want to do any little job, just look it up on YouTube. And I.
08:34
I promise you there's a video. Like there was something that broke in our van. I don't even remember what it's called. Some ECM blah, blah, blah valve, whatever with the exhaust. I don't remember what it's called now, but I Googled it. I found the part, bought it on Amazon. It showed up two days later. I got on YouTube. I watched a 10 minute YouTube video and swapped out this part. Like on this, whatever, 2010 minivan. Like if you need to do anything, there is a YouTube video for it. I promise you. And
09:03
Your dad wasn't with you. Nobody sat there and taught you how to do the basic things. I mean, we all assume at least we're probably a little bit more normal for people to know whatever 50 years ago. Yeah. On one hand, right. It is this incredible resource, but I think what you're saying that I so appreciate is because that information is so accessible, that feels like that just turns the volume up on the pressure. I feel of like, well, I can look up how to replace the CEM in a van. And so.
09:33
I can't use that as an excuse that I don't have the information. The information is right here. So the issue then, and the workflow is me, right? Or that's like the easy way to be able to look through kind of a lens of these pieces. Yeah. There's like an added freedom. Like there's the ability to do things and there's the like pressure and, and like, you know, this is a tangent, but I think that's a lot of the reason why, like anxiety is off the charts among men among teenagers is like.
10:02
You know, we're at the point where our generation has been told and generations behind us have been told, like, you have all the information in the world accessible to you at any given moment in the palm of your hand. What are you going to do with it? Yeah. That is a ton of anxiety. Totally. Yeah. Which I think then maybe just reiterates another point that we've maybe talked about in some different ways on this podcast, that information by itself.
10:31
is ultimately not transformational. Yeah. Like, and maybe look at it through this DIY kind of lens, right? Like just because I was able to YouTube and look up, you know, how to replace the starter and I actually lucked into succeeding at that in air quotes. I can recount that to you now, Cody is, Hey, this is kind of this funny story. Or I can kind of like, yeah, no big deal. You know, I replaced the starter, like, you know,
10:59
chalk it up to this false sort of pride around that. But that process didn't change me. That information didn't change who I understood myself to be, which I would argue because that happened by myself. Like there wasn't anyone else in that space. And you even said it before we jumped on the call, I loved it, you're like, isn't it interesting? The acronym is DIY. It is do it yourself. Not together.
11:25
right? It is by yourself. And so it feels like there's such an interesting possibility to explore of like, what might it look like? What could it look like to invite other people into this space, especially if it's new, right? In ways that I think opens the category beyond just a technical accomplishing of a skill and actually now, you know, who we are as humans could be engaged on a deeper level. Yeah, that's super interesting.
11:52
I'm just thinking through even a fairly recent situation. I had a friend, pretty good friend. He's got multiple cars that need, I know we keep circling around back to cars or automobile work, but he had multiple cars that needed the, uh, the brakes changed. Now I started off life super broke and anytime something needed to be fixed, I had to fix it. So there was a little bit more pressure in that way. Um, but I couldn't afford to pay somebody else to do it. So I had to learn. And so I learned how to change brakes and brakes.
12:20
I'll just say this, this is another tangent. Brake jobs are the most like, it's the biggest scam out there. They charge like $600 to change your brakes and you guys like the parts are 80 bucks. Seriously. You can do it in 45 minutes. Like it's kind of dumb. Yeah. So I offered to help him change the brakes on his vehicles. And to this, I mean, this is like probably five months ago. We still haven't made that happen. My guess at this point is he's probably paid someone else to do it.
12:49
And I think oftentimes we will do that. We'll pay somebody else to take that from us so that we don't have to feel the shame of not knowing how to do it ourselves with another person. Bingo. Say that one more time. I agree a thousand percent, because I think it's true. Say that one more time. Yeah, it's like, even when the opportunity is there to learn a skill and to do it and be with someone in it, like the shame of not knowing how to do it or the potential of messing it up in front of them or whatever, it's just easier to pay somebody else to do.
13:19
Absolutely. And sometimes we should be paying somebody else to do it. This is, this is what I'm looking at. You're wrong. Yes, yes. No, I don't know. But there's opportunity there for us to step into the ring and try something we're not comfortable with. There's opportunity to actually do it with someone that we know. And even when that's available. Yeah. A lot of times we just will pay somebody else. Yeah. I so agree. Cause I think that names the reality of like, it is a super risky thing to say to someone else like.
13:49
Hey, will you help me in this? I need some help. I don't know how to navigate this. Would you join me in that? Like now it's not just about the breaks or like whatever task you're talking about, right? To actually ask that question is, okay, now we're entering in the space of competency, identity, worth, right? And those are massive things. And to risk someone saying like no, or the judgment of like, what do you mean you don't know how to do that, right? Like it makes sense why people, why I...
14:18
choose. Now it's just easier to pay someone. I'd rather the cost be financial than the cost be like a hit to my image. Yeah, because then nobody sees the financial, you know, that's that's it's hidden. Right. Okay, so Jesse, I'm curious, though, like on the flip side of that, if somebody asks you for help in an area and something that you even just have a moderate amount of expertise in, what does that do for you? Like what happens? Oh, man, that's such a good question. I feel like I feel honored.
14:48
Like, dang, of course I would love to, like in a weird way it's honoring me and it's not about me. And after that, it's a sense of like, man, I would be thrilled to be able to share some knowledge to be with you in that. Like, there isn't this thread of judgment, right? It is just like, yeah, dude, that sounds great. Yeah, I mean, if I think about it, it's like when people ask me for help, which doesn't happen often, but when they do, like I get excited about it.
15:16
Like, heck yeah, let's go. Let's, you know. Yes. I want to come help you fix your whatever problem, you know, like that's, and, and a lot of, I mean, I would argue most guys who, you know, if they're asked about something that they know how to do to some degree, at least to come help, like they're actually really excited to offer their strengths on behalf of other people. Yeah. When invited to do so. So I'll put you on the spot.
15:42
When was the time where that happened recently for you or someone else invited you? It could be big or small, like whatever the task, but someone was like, Hey, Cody, I need some help. You've got some expertise. Like, would you come and join me in this? And I am totally like putting you on the hot seat right now. Okay. Here's one. Finally, this popped into my head as I look at my window, I see my neighbor's house and she's this older woman, probably mid to late sixties, maybe even her seventies.
16:11
Her husband died a couple of years ago and she basically had this crazy electrical short that blew up a bunch of her electronics in your house. And so she got a new TV and she asked me if I could come over and help her hang the TV. And she wanted to pay me to help hang this TV and like take the old one down and level and put up the hanger thingy and all this stuff. And I mean, it took me like half an hour.
16:38
And I just brought all my kids with me and it was fun. And like, of course I didn't want her $50 or whatever she was trying to pay me for it. Like it was just fun to be able to help her. Like, yeah, I mean, it was my burden. Yeah. So, and I'm not trying to have you analyze this woman's life, but like, what were you aware of, like as you were there, you know, doing this project, what were you aware of? Like even in her request.
17:05
of things deeper than just the task of hanging a TV. Yeah, I think there's a lot of dynamics that I'm aware of with her. One is that she doesn't want to ask for help. She doesn't like asking for help, because it feels vulnerable to ask for help. And she, I think, not having her husband around already feels super vulnerable. And so she was apologizing for things, apologizing for this and for that, and it's like, whatever, I'm gonna apologize.
17:35
Yeah. And you know, that was probably the biggest dynamic that I'm aware of with her. And I think there's just a tentative, like she's having to learn how to rely on people in ways that she never had to before. Which, you know, frankly, like we probably all need to learn how to rely on people better. I know I suck at that. Like personally, I am, I don't know, I'm probably the most self-dependent person I know. I have for lots of reasons, like.
18:03
That's, that's been part of my story is like, I have learned that I need to rely on myself to take care of myself, to do the things that need to be done. You know, I think there's this thought that like, I'm on my own. Nobody's got my back. Nobody's going to show up and bail me out. So I got to figure this out and pull myself up by my bootstraps and whatever. And so it's really hard. It's super vulnerable to like not know how to do something and not know how to even figure out how to do something.
18:32
to ask for help, like Jesse, just even like crazy example. So I, um, right here next to the cam, next to the computer. So I've got this camera, um, that recently got for restoration projects so that I can start capturing stories on film for our organization. And I'm, I'm pretty good artist. Like pretty good at like design and drawing and like.
18:59
capturing things and I know what looks good and doesn't look good and things, you know. And I picked this thing up and like, way back in the day in college, I had this old 35 millimeter camera that my dad had had in the 70s and like I just played around with it and took pictures and whatever. But I never got really into photography. You know, iPhone photography is like the thing that I got into if there's anything. Okay. I picked this thing up, there are a million buttons. And a million settings and it's like super overwhelming. Yeah.
19:29
And so there's part of me that's like, okay, I get a new thing to learn. That's kind of fun. And part of me that's like, Oh crap. I feel like the biggest idiot right now. And I don't know who to ask for help. But I actually probably need help. Like a YouTube video is not going to like actually get me over this help. And so that's hard to like admit. It totally is. And I think too, I mean, we have a phrase kind of organizationally that like,
19:59
it originated a bunch of years ago of like, it's not about the boat. And the boat was just like this, you know, experience thing that doesn't really matter. But the whole point of that is like, it really isn't about the camera. It really isn't about the TV for your neighbor. What it is about, I would say, right, is like, you know, for that neighbor of, Hey, I'm navigating grief here. I'm navigating a new reality and I love that you brought your kids with you over to her house because I would imagine like,
20:28
The presence that you brought her in the face of her own like resistance to asking for help. That was the best gift that you gave her. Like I have no doubt that you checked the box and you did the task, right? But you actually being with her, the presence that you offered her in the midst of that, that was the good gift. Like that was, I would say probably what she was after most. And so, and I would, you know, you don't have to answer this, but I would imagine on some level with the camera, like, yes, you want to learn how to use the buttons and the features.
20:57
but to have someone actually be with you and be excited around your excitement and to be in that space of newness and discovery with you, that's actually good news. That's actually like begins to shift and affirm who we are. And so I think long way of what I'm trying to say is like the presence that we offer to other people is the restorative goodness, the technical skills fill in the blank that matters. But I would say that's actually maybe the vehicle that's the on-ramp.
21:24
Even as bold to say, maybe that's the way that God chooses to work at times to say, hey, no, that's the way that we can allow this relationship to happen, this interaction to happen that speaks to deeper places than fixing something that's broken. Well, even as you say that, like you said, the more like restorative thing is like the presence that we offer others, not to getting the job done. Yeah, it is actually when we are able to offer our presence to someone that becomes
21:53
I would say now we're in this place of restoration happening in some ways, right? That goes deeper than broken thing is fixed. Yeah. So as you say that, as you're talking about, when we offer our presence to other people, that's the restorative thing. It's not necessarily about the getting the thing fixed, the practicality of that. We offer that presence to other people. That's the big deal. I also think the flip side of that for us is, and in very real ways, sometimes it's actually the receiving, not the offering.
22:23
I'm actually really good at offering my presence. I'm terrible at receiving other people's presence or even like being vulnerable enough to ask for it. I am not good at putting myself in a position of needing anybody else. But that's the space where that I'm even now learning how to be vulnerable, how to step into that space of neediness and be okay with being needy to meeting other people and their affirmation in the ways that I need it.
22:52
presence in the ways that I actually need it. You know, after decades of convincing myself that I didn't meet it, I'm learning that actually, no, that was a bunch of BS. I need other people. And so sometimes the restorative work isn't the offering. That's always restored. Yes. Being willing to receive it often is the thing that God is trying to do in our lives. Yeah. I love that. So broadly speaking, when you ask for help, when you say, Hey, I have.
23:21
a need here and you invite the presence of someone else and that is given to you. What shift does that invite or what maybe way of being, what interpretation in your own life begins to be countered? Yeah. I mean, one of the running stories for me is, or lies that I tend to gravitate to and believe is that I'm on my own. And so when people show up on my behalf, when they have my back, it helps me to start to believe that maybe I'm.
23:51
Maybe I don't have to be. Yeah. Maybe God has something else in mind and it isn't my isolation. Yes. Yep. Yeah. And that's frankly, that's risky to even like start to believe. Totally. DIY is in many ways preferred because it's easier. It's less risky. Thousand percent. Yes. And IT, you do it together is like actually scarier sometimes. Yeah. Cause someone could, they can say no.
24:20
They can be like, you moron. What do you mean you can't do that? Right? Like it is, it is so risky. Right? Yeah. I mean, or they just don't show up at all. Like, you know, and that maybe is outside of the quote unquote DIY space, but like, yeah. If you step into being needy, right? Needy has a bad connotation. But if you step into the goodness of having need, of admitting the fact that you have need, cause we all have need, like we're all actually needy. But once we admit it, stepping into that is risky because...
24:50
Oh crap. What if nobody shows up and meets my needs? What if nobody shows up to me? Yeah, for sure. So I'm just going to DIY it. I'm going to do it myself. Yeah. Oh man. I think I'm grateful for this conversation because it does feel like this setting of like learning new things, asking for help. Like it feels like it has a magnifying glass on what's always true about who we are. Right. Of like, at our deepest level, we want to be seen.
25:18
We want to be affirmed for more than just our accomplishment. Right. And that's at least for me, that's some of the piece of admitting a need, right. Is saying I'm not accomplishing the thing. I'm not succeeding at the thing. And so then the question is saying like, am I still seen and valued? Even if the, you know, the fence that I'm working on is a freaking hot mess. Right. And for someone to say then, yeah, there's more about you than your competency and your success that is worth being with. Right. Yeah.
25:48
Jesse, do you feel like there's been a time where you felt seen in what you were working on, what you were doing? Even if you were technically DIYing it, but it was seen by others, it wasn't, you were maybe doing the work yourself, but having it seen by others or observed by others or affirmed by others meant that you weren't actually all by yourself. Hmm. Oh, this is a good question. There was a time.
26:16
So it was earlier this fall, this kind of will answer your question. I'm going to push the boundaries on a little bit, but I was working on making these wood gates for our house and didn't want to just buy like a steel gate. It was like, okay, I want to make these two gates and there's kind of a post endowal set up and so I, and I remember telling you about it of like, okay, I'm going to try to make these gates. I've never made them before, right. If, and the whole point was that it would match kind of the other ones that we had. And, and then on top of it too, I just thought.
26:43
Why not try to just like use the materials that I have in my house and once again, not spend the money to like actually go and buy the thing. So there's that level of complexity to it. But I spent a, you know, a while making these two, like four foot wide gates and, you know, like borrowing a draw knife from my neighbor and calling my buddy in Washington and being like, Hey man, how would I do this? I think I picked your brain on this of like, what's the best way to get this to fit into here? And
27:12
So I was picking other people's brains on it, but just built them in my garage. And I remember like finishing them and looking at, finishing like I hadn't installed them yet, but like looking at it in the garage. I just like looking at them and just thinking, you know, this is solid. Like I can put my stamp of approval on this. And then the interesting piece of the story then was the hinges to install them are like super finicky. It was hard to find. So I asked my father-in-law, who's this like just...
27:42
crazy handy guys like, hey, can you come help me actually hang the gates? And he's like, absolutely. And so he came out and he saw the gates and he's like, Oh, look at these. And he's a man who's like very understated, just flies in the radar, but even him just saying like, these are good gates. And so that was the verbal affirmation. I know it wasn't just purely given by myself, but like, I think there, what I'm trying to say is there's a piece of like, when he said that I was like, yeah, they are like, I already had a sense of that. And again, like, yeah, not amazing.
28:10
But like enough to be like, these are good enough. And you can be feeling like, Oh, there was some of the affirmation that I could even like give to myself leading up to that, that his words were just sort of confirming that. Yeah. I mean, even just having that witness to the work you've done is important. Yeah. I mean, Jesse, as you talk about that, like I remember the conversations around the gates, I think we had multiple conversations around the gates. I'm sure we did. I'm sure you were like, can we talk about something work wise? Like you're just, Oh, no, no, no, no. I loved it.
28:40
It makes me like, I want to come see the gates. Like I never saw the finished product. It's like, I want to come and, you know, check them out and geek out about, you know, what you did and how you did it. And it's like, that's fun. You know, and the reason why that's fun. Most of the reason why that's fun is because of you and who you are in the relationship I have with you, but it's also fun because you involved me in the process. And so I got to be a part of hearing you trying to figure out how to solve the problem. So it's like,
29:09
Yeah, I want to come to your house and like see your gates and give you a high five and what you know, whatever. Right. You know, as we kind of wrap up our conversation here, I'm so grateful for the ways that it unfolded. What words would you give to some of the guys that have listened to this that think about their own attempts, their own desire around spaces that are trying to learn?
29:34
their own desire for other men, other people to actually be with them and do not do that in isolation. What word would you offer here to them? Yeah, there's probably a couple things. I've got at least three things that come to mind. First thing that comes to mind, Jesse, is the reality that we often let insecurity and shame keep us from stepping into the ring to stepping into trying things that we feel uncomfortable with or unsure about. And so I guess the first thing that jumps in my head is like, I just want to encourage guys.
30:04
You don't have to be afraid. Failure is not messing it up, right? Yeah. Messing up is not failure. In fact, that's how I've learned how to do almost everything I know how to do is I totally screwed it up the first time. And maybe the first like three or four times. And so it's worth the adventure of stepping into unknown spaces and trying. And that applies to like all a lot of areas of life. Not just the physical using your hands. I mean, that's every that's everything.
30:34
Housework, like everything. So that's the first thing that jumps into my head is try it. Let yourself be vulnerable. Let yourself be okay with messing up. The second thing that comes to my mind is like, we're really tempted. Like, you know, like we've talked about this whole podcast, the DIY, like we're tempted to just do it by ourselves. So that I think often so that either we're not relying on other people and therefore setting ourselves up to be disappointed by other people, or so that if we fail, nobody else will see it. Bingo.
31:03
Yep. And so I guess the encouragement there is like, maybe don't do it all by yourself. Either invite people into the process of it with you, ask them to help you work on your whatever, change your oil if you don't have to change your oil, let it, you know, or tell people how you screwed it up when you screwed it up or your victories when you had victories, like celebrate it together, laugh at yourself together, like be together in it. And it's not DIYing in the same sense. It's DIYing, doing it together.
31:32
And then,
32:02
even if they weren't with you shoulder to shoulder in the completing of it. Totally. Like I think, you know, we got a little handicapped growing up being taught like don't boast, don't brag, don't, you know, be boastful or whatever. Like, yeah, that's not what we're talking about though. Like the, the sharing of victories and the celebrating together is not boastful. It's not bragging. It's inviting other people into your life with you. Yeah, that's right. So the third thing that jumps into my head and I'll,
32:32
we can call it after this, but is if you're a dad, especially, I think there's an opportunity to learn things and quote unquote DIY and mess things up with your kids present. And, you know, I think we can offer our kids things that maybe weren't offered to us, we can offer them our vulnerability and our weakness and the ways that we mess things up, we can offer them the learning opportunity as we're learning. You know, I go out.
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Like I know how to change the oil so I can teach my kids how to change their oil. That's great. I had to change a CV axle in our minivan this summer. And so I pulled my boys out there and I'm like, I don't know exactly what I'm doing here. I kind of know sort of, and I've watched some YouTube videos and we're going to figure it out together and we definitely messed it up. You know, and like they learned a ton in the process and it was good to do that together with them.
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pass on some of that learning. So now they're still probably going to go to YouTube University. And like, they have a little bit of foundation and like, okay, I've done, I've been in this space with my dad before and it was good. And I would say the space is like, yes, on one hand, it's the axle of a van, but I would say the greater space and the greater teaching that you offered them was effort and striving and disappointment and failing. Like the teaching that you offered them indirectly.
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Like I would say is far more gold than the car piece. Car piece is great, cool. But for them to be able to see like, hey, my dad can try. He can fail. This is normal. He's so good. So needed. Yeah, so beautiful. Totally, totally. It reminds me, shameless plug, I guess. I don't know. We have a checklist. We do. I think it's on our website. You can download it for free. It's like the 50 skills every dad should teach his kid. I think that's what it's called. There's a good chance you don't know how to do.
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some of those skills yourself. What a wonderful, ripe opportunity for engagement and relationship with other people. Well, Cody, thanks for the conversation today. I feel like, yeah, just selfishly I enjoyed it. Thanks for your thoughtfulness and diving in today. Dude. Yeah. Thank you, Jesse. It's been fun. I enjoy your questions. I enjoy your insights. It's been really great. Thank you. Thanks, code. We'll see you soon. Take care guys.