Some Kind of Wonderful

Dive deep into John Hughes' 1987 teen romance *Some Kind of Wonderful* – the gender-flipped spiritual successor to Pretty in Pink that's often called the better film! We break down the heartfelt story of unrequited love, class divides, standout performances (Eric Stoltz as Keith, Mary Stuart Masterson as Watts, Lea Thompson as Amanda Jones), iconic moments (diamond earrings, drum solos, that epic kiss), the killer 80s soundtrack, and why this underrated gem holds up with more emotional depth and smarter writing than many Hughes classics. Special guest Steve Smith joins for trivia, behind-the-scenes stories, and honest takes on the tropes, twists, and timeless themes.

Creators and Guests

Host

Katie Geilenkirchen

Guest

Steve Smith

What is The Director's Chair Network?

Join Ryan and many featured guests and other hosts as they break down and review a variety of directors and their films!
So far, this podcast has featured films from Edward Zwick, John Hughes, Brian De Palma, and Michael Mann.
Soon, we will feature Edgar Wright, Sam Peckinpah, Paul Verhoeven, and David Fincher!

S2E23_ Some Kind of Wonderful _ 1987 Pop Culture Rewind.m4a
*Music*
I wanted to know if maybe you wanted to go out.
I'm going out with a girl tonight, and she's beautiful, and everybody's in love with her, and she's coming out with me.
I just want you to get off the dime and think about your future.
She's beautiful, and obviously in the middle of some emotional shootout to consent to date the human tater tot.
This is 1987. Did you know that a girl can be whatever she wants to be?
I know, my mom's a plumber.
I recommend you keep your eyes and your mind off my property.
Cut it out.
Why don't you mind your own business?
Really, it must be a drag to be a slave to the male sex drive.
I didn't say anything about sex.
Oh, wanna start a book club with her?
*Music*
Anytime somebody from the outside lifts a woman from a guat like Jen's, man, we could all find cause to rejoice.
*Music*
You walking on me, where are you gonna go?
*Music*
I wanna show this girl that I'm as good as anybody else.
*Music*
I know how you feel.
*Music*
You've been in love before.
*Music*
There's a lot of things you don't know about me.
*Music*
You got a shot to be the first guy in this family.
You didn't have to wash his hands after a day's work.
*Music*
*Music*
Break his heart and break your face.
*Music*
Do you miss me, Keith?
Do you miss not being around me?
*Music*
This isn't the third grade anymore.
*Music*
Oh, you're only 18 years old.
Then I'm 19, then I'm 20!
When does my life belong to me?
*Music*
*Music*
*Music*
*Music*
*Music*
Hello, hello. I'm Katie and welcome to RetroMade, your pop culture rewind.
Today we're heading back to 1987, one of my favorite 80s years, for some kind of wonderful John Hughes gender flipped spin on the pretty in pink formula.
It's got unrequited love, drum solos, diamond earrings, big and Hughes films, and the classic Hughes mix of angst and heart.
We'll dig into the movie, the music, the era, when every teen in America was just trying to figure out who they really belonged with.
And I'm very happy to welcome back to the show, returning guest Steve Smith from Men of Action and Dropping of Bruce Podcasts.
Did I get that right, Steve?
*Music*
That's correct. Hello, everybody.
*Music*
Welcome back to the show. What can we look forward to? What's upcoming on your shows?
*Music*
Well, the Men of Action podcast is, I co-host with Scott Kaye of the Church of Tarantino podcast.
*Music*
It's an ever evolving thing within action. So currently, we are looking at the mission itself. So we're doing men on a mission movies, or men or women. Men or women on a mission.
*Music* Okay, okay. I like it.
*Music*
*Music*
*Music*
*Music*
*Music*
*Music*
you know, a lot of these films have been discussed a million times.
So we're kind of looking at it from the mission perspective.
You know, who's in on the mission?
Is the mission a good idea?
Is it likely to be successful?
So we do discuss towards the end of the episode,
we get more into the nuts and the bolts of the film itself.
But we also, like I say, we're digging a bit deeper
into the mission itself of the movies.
And the Drop in a Bruce podcast, we are nearing the end.
Really?
Yeah.
So there's been like, I think there's the straight to video
or straight to stream in Bruce Willis movies.
There's roughly 40, I think.
So we're, I think we've just recorded the 33rd episode.
So you are nearing the end.
We're nearing the end.
And I must confess, it's been a slog.
It's been heavy going.
I bet.
Now remind listeners why that is, what the story is with dropping a Bruce.
The name sort of implies it.
So Scott, that was Scott's idea to do this.
And much like I was saying about the Men on a Mission movies is,
we didn't want to talk about Die Hard and all the films that everyone knows so well.
So Bruce Willis did a large quantity of straight to video movies.
And it's difficult because we didn't, at the time, a lot of us didn't really know,
why is he making these crappy movies?
But then his illness became apparent or his condition became apparent, his aphasia.
And that news broke just when we decided to do the show.
And we thought that would be incredibly bad taste for us to do it now.
But over time, we thought, well, no, there's a way to do this.
You know, we're not going to tear these movies apart and make fun of them.
We just want to review them as we would any other movie.
So we found an angle to do it respectfully.
And obviously, we hadn't seen any of these movies.
So we didn't really know what to expect.
And we've had a good time.
It's been tough at times.
You know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
These are quite...
A lot of these films are pretty low budget,
filmed by, at times, rather inept people.
And as we've come to realize,
Bruce Willis has been exploited rather a lot.
Yeah, it's really sad.
And finding out just how ruthless a lot of these producers
and money guys really were.
Because there's no way it can...
They were aware of Bruce's condition and situation.
And they've severely taken advantage of him.
But we address that.
And...
But we try and have fun.
And we kind of...
Yeah.
You know, we discuss the cast.
And who kind of rises to the occasion and who doesn't.
And we do it respectfully.
But we...
Films, you know, movies are movies.
And some suck.
Some films surprise you.
Some disappoint you.
And just...
And we approach it that way.
But yeah, like I say, we're now coming towards the end.
And it's been a rocky road.
Maybe it's welcome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's like the end of the marathon race where you can see the line and you're just like,
I just need to get there.
Well, you guys are respectful and you do a good job.
I guess what's always perplexed me about the straight to video, straight to stream, like this...
And straight to streaming might be a little different.
But especially back in the day, the straight to video market, like who's...
I don't understand.
Is this like a money laundering?
Well, that's what...
Yeah, that's what we've come to...
I mean, you can really dig up a bit of dirt on some of these producers.
They're pretty ruthless guys and they're just...
You know, they're making these movies for $15 million, apparently.
A lot of the time.
Bruce gets like a million dollars a day, apparently.
But how do they make money?
I mean...
Well, this is it.
And they don't.
This is what we're saying.
The money laundering aspect.
Basically, they pay Bruce Willis...
They only...
Bruce Willis is clearly on this movie set for a day.
Right?
So where's the other $14 million?
Because the movies...
I would...
To hazard a guess, I would say these movies probably cost about $2 million.
To make.
Okay.
Yeah.
So there's some shenanigans afoot.
There's some stuff going on.
We try...
We try to dig up...
Allegedly.
Yeah.
I mean, a lot of the time, you can't even find the info on the budgets of these movies,
you know?
So it's pretty shady business going on.
And they're...
You know, I'm sure Bruce Willis isn't the only people they're exploiting, whether they're in
on the sex trade or the drug trade or whatever.
Yeah.
But there's some shady shenanigans going on.
And we try and address that.
And we dig up what we can information-wise.
But it's difficult a lot of the time.
Sure.
But a lot of the time, you do manage to get a couple of decent guest stars.
You know, you get John Malkovich and Michael Rooker were in the one we just discussed.
And, you know, you get Thomas Jane.
You get...
You get all kinds of people.
Sort of...
John Cusack.
You get all these people just showing up, probably as a favor to Bruce, perhaps.
Maybe.
And respect to help him out.
And I'm sure a lot of this...
A lot of the money Bruce has been making has been to pay for his health bills, I guess.
But it's murky, to say the least.
But it's been an interesting journey.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's been an interesting journey.
Well, I would recommend everyone head on over to Dropping a Bruce to check more of what Steve and I have been talking about.
And also, their Men of Action podcast is really fun.
I mean, it's the 80s and 90s.
I must say, Scott does a lot of the heavy lifting.
I call him the head honcho, really, because he knows a lot more on that side of things than me.
So I've got to give him a shout out, because he does a lot of the hard work.
But we have a great time.
Yeah, you guys are an interesting duo.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, we've got the British and the American.
He's ex-military as well.
Yeah.
So he can shed a lot of light on things.
But we just kind of had a good chemistry when we first initially started talking.
And I'm just kind of like, Scott, whatever you want to do, I'll just team up with you.
And we'll just have some, we have some laughs.
We try and, you know, some movie podcasts can be a bit academic.
You know, some can be a little bit too much of just a lark.
So we try and meet it in the middle.
And we're like, you know, we'll give you the details and the knowledge.
And the knowledge.
But we also, we like to have a, we like to have some fun too.
Of course.
That's the whole point.
Yeah.
You'll have movies.
You should give us a listen because you'll learn a bit, hopefully, and you'll have some laughs.
And that's, that's, that's what we try to do.
You know.
Perfect.
Perfect.
Well, the shtick that RetroMade has is we spin a wheel and do some trivia from the year the movie we're about to discuss came out.
So just kind of get us in that feeling.
So without further ado, let's open the time capsule from 1987.
And I'm going to share my screen with you.
All right.
I'm going to spin on your behalf.
Okay.
See what category we get for 1987.
Oh, can Steve come out to play?
Let's.
Okay.
There's a couple giveaways, like easy ones.
We'll start with that.
While released slightly earlier, this animatronic doll with a plush body and moving mouth, which reads stories from cassette tapes, was one of the most sought after toys of the 1987 holiday season.
What was the toy?
This is a tough one for me.
Is it Teddy Bear?
Yep.
You're on the right track.
Is it Teddy Rockspin?
No.
It is.
Is it?
Yeah.
Good job.
Well, thanks.
All right.
Now, what toy known for its soft, rubbery and tactile feel was invented in 1987 and became a smash hit in the following year?
I think it really blew up in the early 90s, too.
You know, it takes a while.
I remember having these.
Cabbage patch?
Okay.
No, it's a.
It's.
It's like an inanimate.
It's not like a doll or a bear or anything.
Okay.
Oh.
Soft, rubbery, tactile feel.
And then it became a smash hit.
That's like a toy.
You might.
I'm drawing a blank on this one.
You may not know this because you're in the UK, but here, if anybody ever watched the Rosie O'Donnell show, she used to fling these into the audience on her show.
No, I'm sorry.
The Koosh Ball.
Are you familiar with the Koosh Ball?
I have no idea.
I've never even heard that.
Okay.
Maybe it was just in America.
You guys have to remember the Koosh Ball.
All right.
Let's go to another category.
Let's see here.
We can find something interesting.
Totally tasty.
This would be like snacks and food and drinks and stuff.
Ooh.
American foods.
All right.
I'll give you an easy one.
I don't know.
Maybe, maybe not.
Well, there's a few that are pretty easy.
In 1987, this brand launched a new orange flavored monster cereal that featured the character Yummy Mummy.
I imagine it's in the same, like with Count Chocula, Boo Berry, like those, I'm imagining.
So it's a brand.
Mm-hmm.
It's a brand.
Which is a brand.
A brand of cereal.
Oh.
We never had any of those over here.
Didn't you?
Okay.
No.
It's one of the big two here.
Is that, what is it, like Nestle?
Is that a brand?
Is that kind of what it is?
It is, but it's, yep.
So.
It's not Kellogg's?
No.
It's the other big one.
Kellogg's is one of the big ones.
It's the other one.
I didn't even know what I can think of.
Give up?
Yeah, I'm going to have to.
I'm sorry.
General Mills?
Are you familiar with that cereal brand?
No.
No.
Okay.
No.
It's like the other one.
Kellogg's and General Mills are probably the two big ones.
Oh, they're the big two.
Yeah.
The big two.
Yeah.
Sorry.
Yeah.
No worries.
No worries.
That's a new one on me.
You might.
Okay.
Hmm.
Well, I would say the most unique thing about it is its name.
American candies.
American candies.
Like a chocolate bar with caramel.
I would say the most unique thing about it is its name.
kind of like a hodgepodge of things.
Where you, you know, oh, it's, you know, if you're trying to think of something, you're
like, oh, blank.
This is going to kill me.
I can't think for the life of me.
Well, this is, this isn't fair because these probably, you didn't have this in the UK.
No, no.
Although the funny thing is whenever I have been to the States and I've obviously, you know,
like, um, but the free musketeers bar or, you know, stuff like that that you hear about
in a movie, you think if I ever go to America, I'm going to try one of those.
And then when you do, you're like, oh, that's exactly the same as something else from the UK.
You know, it's not like some exotically weird thing that we don't have.
It's just a different, something we have with a different name.
Exactly.
And you, there are probably some things that are unique to us and vice versa.
Yeah.
This, I will say it's not like a well-known one.
It's like way down the list of popular.
I don't even know if they make it anymore, to be honest with you, but I haven't bought
a candy bar in like 20 years.
So I don't, it's the whatchamacallit.
I was going to say thingamabob, but then I don't know.
Same.
I mean, it's a similar.
It's pretty much the same thing.
I should have said it, but I was a bit like, is that even a thing?
I don't know if you can use that phrase in America.
Yeah.
Whatchamacallit, thingamabob.
So the whatchamacallit candy bar.
I would have been wrong anyway.
So, but no, I don't think I've ever heard of that one.
Well, you might actually get this one.
I feel like this maybe transcends oceans.
In 1987, Ben and Jerry's introduced this flavor named after the band Grateful Dead's lead guitarist,
marking the first time they named a flavor after a musician.
So you're familiar with Ben and Jerry's ice cream?
I am.
I'm trying to think of the Grateful Dead's singer.
And.
It's a rhyme with his name.
Like it's a play on his name and it rhymes.
Yeah.
I'm not.
I'm not.
I could only.
I'm not going to look it up because that's cheating.
Isn't it, Steve?
No cheating on the retro made.
We don't cheat on this show.
So I'm going to have to say I have no idea.
I know when you say it.
When I say it.
Yeah, I know.
I know it.
It is Cherry Garcia is the name of the ice cream.
Oh, God.
Cherry Garcia.
Yeah.
I think I'm just on the spot.
I'm just a bag of nerves, Kate.
I'm just falling apart.
Also, let's find you a category that's more fair.
Like the things that are like cultural to America.
It's not fair to ask.
Let's see if Stars and Scandals.
How do you think you're going to do with the Stars and Scandals portion?
Celebrity gossipy stuff.
Yeah, let's give it a shot.
You know, let's give up.
I'll give it my best.
I think these are easier, but you never know.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
This popular televangelist was forced to resign from his ministry, PTL.
After it was revealed, he paid a former church secretary over $200,000 in hush money following a sexual encounter in 1980.
Who was this televangelist?
Disgraced.
Well, televangelist.
Again, not something we really had in the UK.
But I feel like you'll know it.
There's always kind of a joke about his wife.
It's like this person.
It's like blank and blank last name.
And the wife is known for wearing a clownish makeup.
I don't know if that's holding it off.
No.
Yeah.
That's a bit.
This one's probably the hardest one.
So it is Jim Baker.
So remember Jim and Tammy?
Tammy Baker?
Tammy?
Was it Tammy Faye?
No, no.
I'm sorry.
I'm not too good at these.
No worries.
In America, does anybody remember this?
I mean, I was a kid, but I still remember like the, you know, it was in the ether of pop culture for a long time.
That can only be Sean Penn.
It is Sean Penn.
See?
They're getting easier.
Yeah.
Actor punching someone.
Sean Penn.
That's what I'm saying.
They had to name the movie out of all these.
Yes, Sean Penn.
There's probably been several that have punched people, but this one's from Famous.
That's one of his favorite pastimes.
Let's see.
Who was the actor who in 1987 was involved in a fatal car crash that killed two women?
Actually, I think it was a mother and a daughter, but.
I'm trying to think.
An actor who.
And he was.
Was he?
A young, well, no, he would have been young.
It was very young at the time.
It's not Matthew Broderick, is it?
It is Matthew Broderick.
Yes.
Ah, yeah.
I didn't know the ins and outs, so to speak, but I knew he'd been involved in something like that.
I had, I feel like I didn't hear about that at the time, but I've since learned that.
I didn't know it was that early on.
Mm-hmm.
He was dating Jennifer Grey at the time from Dirty Dancing.
Ah, I didn't know that either.
Yeah.
Yeah, for some reason I had in my head that that would have been later in his career.
He certainly recovered well from it.
Not his career of having car accidents.
I mean his acting career.
But, yeah, no, I didn't.
Yeah, I didn't know that was that early for him.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
All right.
Last one.
I think you'll get it because you should get it.
Okay.
This female recording artist became a major tabloid fixture after her husband assaulted a songwriter at a Los Angeles club leading to his arrest and eventual jail time.
Sean Penn again, is it?
Yeah.
But who is he married to?
Yes.
Madonna?
Yep.
Yep.
Madonna.
Who knew that wasn't going to work, you know?
I, you know.
Surely a match made in heaven.
It was.
Well, thank you for playing.
That concludes this segment of the time capsule.
The beads of sweat form on my head there.
I'm shaking like a leaf.
Well, shall we, without further ado, get into the movie Some Kind of Wonderful?
Let's.
This came out February 27th, 1987.
It's PG-13.
My birthday.
Is it?
I did not know that.
You were close to being, was it a leap year, your year?
No.
Could you have been a leap year baby?
No.
Okay.
The IMDb rating.
It's a 7 out of 10, which is pretty high, don't you think?
That's pretty good.
Like on IMDb?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a good rating.
I think so.
Now, the director here is not John Hughes.
It's Howard Deutsch.
Are you familiar with Howard Deutsch at all?
I wasn't actually, until I looked him up and he directed.
Did he direct Pretty in Pink?
Yes.
Or.
And also The Great Outdoors, other John Hughes movies.
That's a good one.
Yeah.
I'm a fan of that one.
Yeah?
Yeah.
Well, apparently Martha Coolidge was originally hired and she cast a different Amanda Jones.
She cast Kim Delaney as Amanda Jones and Kyle McLaughlin, that's hard to say his last name,
as Hardy Jens.
So, when Coolidge dropped out, I guess, before filming was to begin, Howard Deutsch replaced
her and he also replaced Leah Thompson, who ends up playing Amanda Jones, and Craig Sheffer
to play Hardy Jens.
I think that was the right move.
Good on you, Howard Deutsch.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I thought Craig Sheffer, I'm getting, I'd be jumping too far ahead.
No, go ahead.
But I always thought he was a bit more of a tough guy.
So, when we get to the party, I always feel like he would have punched you.
Well, yeah, I guess we're supposed to...
I know he's a...
That's kind of what you usually get in that kind of movie.
I'm like, I almost feel like, I'm not saying he's miscast.
He plays a pretty good douchebag.
I think it's...
Yeah.
Yeah.
But that's one of the minor niggles for me, is like, I don't really buy that you wouldn't
have punched Eric Stoltz.
Well, that...
You know when...
It did kind of turn it on its head, because the whole trick or the whole ruse was so that
Hardy and his guys could beat Keith up.
Yeah.
And so, it's turned on its head a little bit when Keith is the one who punches first.
Yeah.
And then, I guess we're...
Which I guess I kind of liked.
It didn't go as we normally expect it to go.
No.
Well, there's quite a lot about...
As we'll discuss, there's quite a lot in this movie that is kind of unusual, a bit different.
Mm-hmm.
I think that's what gives us...
It's got a solid reputation, I think, because of that.
Yes.
Agreed.
And, uh...
I mean, I remember, um, Leah Thompson.
I mean, I was 15 years old.
I had a major crush on her.
Miss Amanda Jones.
Miss Amanda Jones.
But, obviously, this is obviously post Back to the Future.
Yes.
Right?
Yeah.
But, that's where I knew her from.
Mm-hmm.
She was in Howard the Duck.
Did you see that?
Do you know what?
I must confess.
I consider myself a cinephile, but I have things I've missed.
And Howard the Duck may be one of them.
I don't know why, when I was a kid, I wanted to rent that all the time when we would go to
the video store.
And I honestly can't remember anything from it.
I'm sure it's the worst thing ever.
Because, yeah.
Did you ever see her TV show, though?
Caroline in the City?
That she had in the 90s?
No.
I was not aware of that.
I don't think.
It was...
I ran for several seasons.
She was like a...
Was she a cartoonist, I want to say, or something?
Mm, no.
Not familiar with that.
But I remember the video box to this particular movie.
And she was like, oh, Lee Thompson.
So you very much enjoyed the completely unnecessary, like, sexual nature of her posing in the locker
room for absolutely no reason?
Except for a young Steve Smith.
Embedded.
That's embedded in my memory.
But I am...
I mean, Mary Stuart Marston as well.
She's cute as a button.
I mean...
I was going to ask you.
She's, like, flawless looking.
I mean, I know she...
We'll get to her.
She plays the tomboy, quote unquote.
But I think she's just as pretty, if not prettier, than Amanda Jones.
Like, just Watts' character.
Is certainly equal.
And you may be right.
But...
I just remember having a major crush on Lea Thompson because of Back to the Future.
And I think Mary Stuart Masterson.
I don't know...
I'm trying to think of other films I would have seen her in.
Benny and June and Fried Green Tomatoes were probably her biggest ones.
And I really feel like she should have had a bigger career than she did.
She was really good in this, too.
Yeah, she's...
Speaking of Sean Penn, she was in a film called At Close Range.
Okay.
That's Christopher Walken and Sean Penn.
Oh.
I think she plays...
I think she...
That's kind of a dark crime drama family thing.
Okay.
Pretty good, actually.
Yeah, it sounds good.
I recommend...
I think Madonna did the song for it.
Okay.
Live to Tell.
Ooh, okay.
Madonna's Live to Tell is from that movie.
But that is the only other movie...
I think I know her from.
You didn't see Fried Green Tomatoes?
No.
It's good.
It's very good.
I'm sure it is.
I'm a lot more open-minded than I used to be.
I watch, you know, most things now.
But at that particular time, perhaps, I was probably watching other stuff.
Yes.
Yeah, she...
Both the female leads in this are great.
I mean...
Mm-hmm.
Because, again, there's so much to talk about here with...
Because I think Lee Thompson's character, Amanda...
Ultimately, I think, you know, you're supposed to think she's a bitch.
Really.
I think...
I mean, initially...
Initially, yeah.
Okay.
You can...
Well...
These films have become...
You know, these films have been done before and since, you know, where he's kind of...
He's not necessarily from the wrong side of the tracks.
He's just...
I have questions about that.
Yeah.
He's...
He's a bit of an odd...
Not an oddball either.
He's...
He's just a bit of a...
He doesn't fit in anywhere.
He doesn't fit in.
So, you know, you've got the guy who doesn't fit in, who falls in love with the popular princess
of the school.
And nine times out of ten, she's a bit of a bitch.
And he learns that...
Because, ultimately, although he ends up with...
What's her name?
Watts.
Watts.
There's liars here.
She's...
Because she's not a bitch.
Is she?
No, no, I actually don't think that we were ever meant to think she was a bitch, but she
was the typical...
Like, she didn't...
Not that she was a bitch, but she was just, like, unaware.
Like, she is in her own little world at this high school.
And I guess we aren't shown that she...
Like, we're shown that the people she hangs out with are bitchy.
And we find out, like, she's not wealthy like the rest of them.
Right.
And she has to do certain things to maintain her status with them.
But...
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm just...
I think what I'm commenting on, really, is...
Is the kind of tropes of this sort of genre, is that she'll end up being a bitch.
And he'll go off with Watts at the end and live happily ever after.
Of course.
But she's not...
But that's not what she is.
She's not shallow.
She's not a bitch.
She's...
She's a sensitive girl.
And she's been manipulated by this douchebag boyfriend.
And so, yeah, that...
Because watching this again made me think of all these sorts of films that were obviously hugely popular when I was a teenager.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And sometimes how...
How difficult it is to talk about, like, when you have shown an interest in girls and...
Or boys or whoever you are, you know...
um how you kind of do learn from these sorts of movies right how because you know we're awkward
teenagers and you don't know what to say to girls and girls don't know how to act in front of boys
and there's all these that's why these films exist you know but there's lessons in these you know i
always think most there's lessons in these movies and you know i'm interested in girls i can't talk to
my you can't talk to your friends about it and you might feel awkward talking to your older brother
about it not everyone's got that kind of squeaky clean family where you know you might feel a little
bit awkward and i think that that might be a lot of why these as solid entertainment these films are
great anyway but i also think they're relatable and you know you might watch these movies and
you're kind of figuring out who am i in this movie
you know yeah there there are definitely tropes to those there's a formula of this kind of movie i mean
john hughes literally used to the i mean it's this is pretty in pink remade but in my opinion way better
which but sometimes it's it's interesting and we'll talk about i'll back up in a minute and remind
everybody what this movie is about because it is a little lesser known of of his of hughes catalog i
grew up watching it and loving it and then i was kind of reminded pleasantly because i hadn't seen it
in a long time i was pleasantly reminded why i liked it and that it is a little different in a few ways from
from the standard formulaic the formula is all there the all the tropes are there but in this movie
it was done in such a way that i invited it like i i didn't roll my eyes at the tropes like i i was
was totally there for it it for this we like the truck that they're comfort they're comforting aren't
they the tropes we that's why we like what we like you know whether you like action movies or horror
movies or anything that's that's the things you like about them but yeah i don't know it just made
me think about yeah within these films we were looking for ourselves in them a bit for sure and
you know i'm i mean i wasn't i mean when i was a teenager when i think back now obviously i think man
you know like who would i have been in this situation and you know and you're kind of like living vicariously
through these characters because you've got even elias cote is his character the skinhead or whatever
i love him duncan he's awesome but that doesn't go where you think either no it doesn't there's so much
about this movie that it's like always i mean although flipping it a little let's be honest elias
cote has looked at about 50 years old in that movie i had this well i have i have notes but that
when my first i thought 35 no i'm just being but yes but also yeah i think also maybe why i partially
why i liked it a little more is these people are straight up adults like they do not look like teenagers
well i want to that's another thing i want to ask you as well was is what is this is a high school
right so in the uk we leave high school when we're 16
in america it's usually approximately 18 right because they're driving cars and stuff and in the
uk you don't learn to drive till you're 17 so no it's just that thing of like these like these people
that got i mean there's obviously spoof movies that have commented on you know that they're all they
all look like adults yet they're playing 15 year olds or whatever it may be yeah that that was kind
of because that always was a bit of a puzzle that you're like well don't they leave school when
they're 16 as well and um but yeah elias coteas's character because he's like the bully right well
at first right like is he yeah yeah i've got a feeling there was probably scenes cut from this movie
of him and eric stoltz becoming pals i think they kind of in detention they clearly find common ground
they allude to it they it is alluded to yeah i mean they don't spoon feed it to us but you're right
there probably were longer we're shown that they because it does seem a little bit like huh
all of a sudden they're friends so they're best pals i mean and that's a trope too the the detention
scene with the i mean especially the detention rejects so to speak the scene where we get like
the ominous music and they're like shaving their face with a knife and this guy is ripping a book and
breaking a pencil for absolutely no reason other than to show us how tough and intimidating and these
they're little they're shown to be criminals but were to believe they're high school kids you know
but i love i just like when the guy breaks the pencil i don't know i just was all there for it like
okay clearly this you know eric stoltz is supposed to be intimidated by this group well yeah because i mean
you know he's drawing his little notepad and elias coteas is cutting the the desk and he rips the top
off to show him that's a funny little back and forth and and yeah he's a great character in this
he's he really was well let's talk about surprising yeah just how he turns into this
lovable guy well and even some of his other friends yeah he lovable is a good way of putting it so as
we're talking about these characters and the people who play them if you guys haven't seen some kind of
wonderful in a while it is a quick quick little summary is tomboy watts played by mary stuart
masterson and we don't use that term anymore i don't think but they certainly did in 1987 tomboy
so she discovers that her feelings for her best friend keith run deeper than just friendship when
he gets a date with the most popular girl in school unfortunately the girl's old boyfriend who
is from the rich section of town is unable to let go of her and plans to get back at keith
so eric stoltz is playing keith what do you think of eric stoltz and how he played keith here i
other than the obvious like pulp fiction he's not someone of particularly ever he's cropped up in a few
movies but he's never really been a reason to watch the movie because obviously as we know he
was supposed to be in back to the future and if i don't think the movie he was he was obviously his
back to the future was once they got michael j fox it was a different kind of movie i think that was
i wouldn't say darker but i don't think that was as goofy a movie when he was involved and that's why
i think they looked at it and thought this isn't working and i don't think really that was probably
his fault i agree but in this i kind of like him i think he's because he's not a weed he's not a weedy
guy like who you just be like oh because as though as the viewer you know i couldn't probably
don't know if i'm being a dick here but i'm just sort of like i don't want to watch a movie about some
weedy guy you know you'd be like come on man pull yourself together and i don't want to wait 90
minutes for you to pull yourself together is what i'm saying but he's not a weed he's i mean you know
the way that craig sheppard and his friends and what they're going to do you know he couldn't possibly
have really been aware of but he stands up for himself you know he's an individual he's smart
and he's a nice guy so i sort of like well no you're just a nice guy really he's not he's not really an
you're not really a nerd in the negative sense no he's just like a introverted like artsy kid but it
i mean these characters is he nice it's like it's always the nerdy person who doesn't fit in
who wants the hot girl well so does everyone else why do you think you know what makes you so much
better equipped to be with her than anyone else and we don't really i mean he draws her you know so
it's sort of like and then they do the same thing they're mad because they can't get the attention of the
hot pretty girl meanwhile their best friend the cute but not like overtly like sexualized girl
he does the same thing to her as he is being done to him and then in these movies i know so i always
think like our you know our protagonist so to speak is always a little i don't know i don't know also like
eric stoltz he had a career for a hot man and i don't know what happened to him and maybe it was
i don't know if he's problematic or what but he i was really impressed by all all of the acting
performances in this cast really strong i think which elevates this movie over some of the other
like carbon copy john hughes movies but to me honestly eric stoltz as keith was like the least
impressive to me he wasn't bad but i think the the love triangle i guess is by design i mean that's the
kind of point right right yeah i just i just felt i guess because we're all going to see things
differently and how how can i put it like
i just like what i liked about not necessarily about eric stoltz himself but his character
is that he is not a fool good point no he he goes into this totally knowing like he at first thinks
that it's not a joke and then he learns it's a joke and and does it anyway yeah but am i right
lee thompson's not in on it is she she's not he his little sister kind of
mm-hmm but she miss his little sister has got his best interest at heart she just misinterprets
the situation that lee thompson is in on it because she's like there's nothing wrong with her at all
in this movie is that like i say i when i watch it when i watched it initially i remember
i even then i was like oh she's gonna be the bitch he's a wimp and he's gonna learn that he should have been with
his best friend all along but it's not that simple because hey it never is that simple is it no but i
just like i kind of i don't know i never he's not someone i'm overly keen on or following this guy who's
i just like that he's smarter than people think he is good point yeah and at first i wasn't because i
hadn't seen it so long the opening when we see him like he's a loner he's like walking playing chicken
with the train and i at first i was like what does that have to do with anything like why are we why
are we shown that you know and then he's like this sensitive like artsy type but he works with his hands
like he comes from a working class family but he's really dumb we'll get into the i don't want to get
into this now because i want to get through the cast but the whole like using his college money i'm
like what are we doing yeah i'm not sure about that i'll give you that but so leah thompson originally
turned this down when she was approached by howard deutch but then after howard the duck flopped she
accepted and thought i better i need my next project yeah now when i was growing up i didn't know
didn't realize the connection between her name amanda jones and the song i didn't make that connection
i'm not sure i still do so the song miss amanda jones which is played during the movie during her
you know when we it's like a a montage of like her being beautiful and everything so when i was little
i sort of thought it was written for the movie i still did till you're now talking so
okay so it is from the rolling stones album it's a song miss amanda jones is a song by the rolling
stones from their 1967 album between the buttons the film's character name amanda jones was inspired
directly by that song hughes a huge like he's a lifelong he's really into music and he kind of uses it as
like shorthand to set character and mood and so he naming the film's love interest after the stone song
was completely intentional and and he meant it to be to give her this air of unattainable classic cool
right okay yeah well because it's not the rolling stones song in the movie is it someone else singing
or is it that there was like an alternative version i know that was on the soundtrack and i guess i'm not
certain who it's probably the alternative version because i thought there's a there's a song about her
that just sounded almost sounded like blondie to me there's a thing it was a punk rock band i can't
recall now that covered it yeah but no i didn't know i assume because of her name and the and the song
using her name i i just assumed the song was written for the me too apparently it's a wrong and i'm like a
big i'm a pretty big rolling stones fan i had no idea yeah i mean i've only seen this to be i've only seen
this film twice okay so when when it kind of came out and recently for this episode age i think
my memory of films back then is pretty clear you know i can remember when i saw this
you know i i remember i remember the film it's quite interesting that yeah but that music i was
i just assumed that was written for the character i don't know i all wanted to i learned that i know
i'm jumping around here but speaking of the music i usually talk about the composers of these and
there's some familiar names the composition here completely unfamiliar to me but i do think that it
is part of what sets some kind of wonderful apart so steven haig who apparently worked with the pet shop
boys and new order he brought a sleek alt pop edge while john muser is who's the like composition part
his score gave it some heart that like in a big way there were you definitely feel the musical cues in this
and so it feels more like underground and then like more emotionally mature than a lot of the other
john hughes teen movies like this not quite as manipulative for score oh yeah yeah that's a good way of
putting it he's not trying to lead you particularly it's more of a vibe and this and that's what i that's
watching it again i was kind of like i was like this is pretty smart this movie it is yeah this is um
they're very i mean that's john who's you know they're very well written people you know and
the characters i agree yeah and there's a fun and there's fun and it's not too you know it's not too dark
or anything it's just this guy's he's got this fantasy of who this girl is really and his best
friend you know personally he couldn't have made a wrong move let's face it yeah and he's not bad
looking but he's not like the usual we usually get like a uh more traditionally attractive well that's
kind of what i was probably you probably hit the nail on the head there because he's not traditionally
handsome but not many of us are and that's true but usually in these movies like the geek
so to speak isn't isn't ugly like under their glasses when you've got the girl the plain jane and they're
going to make her pretty and you're like she's pretty anyway yeah take the glasses off and all of a sudden
they're hot yeah she's so much like clark kent type situation um but he's not maybe not traditionally
a handsome guy and i think that is probably what more relatable again again that's like someone like
myself i'm like you know i'm gonna i'm not craig sheffer is what i'm saying so and i think that's
what kind of makes it relatable is you know i wasn't like as a teenager i wasn't like keith you know
yeah i like that you know but you know that's that's that's neither here nor there but you didn't
make an art painting and put secretly put it in a museum for her to see later and i wasn't a mechanic
i didn't work as a petrol attendant and well speaking of the petrol attendant i was like oh
was that a thing like it was a full service station we don't have those here except for in certain
states and so maybe they did in 1987 but this was california 1987 and it was a full service gas station
and that's just again this is all american fantasy to me you know i don't i don't was this stuff even
real anyway i don't know you know that's completely a world away from living in you know england in the
in the 80s that's a world away from our situation and like i said we all did this kind of thing where
you know you're you've got the hots for some girl or guy and and they're not even going to look give you a
second look and the torture the turmoil you know the teen angst that you feel because of it so that's
why we love this stuff then is because it was kind of it was aimed at us it was and we were going through
maybe less dramatically or you know i never you know got to you know i never got with the the high
school queen and showed the bullies that i was you know but it's like what you wish you could do it's
like every yeah i mean yeah you know at the end of the day you know the hot girl gets with the hot guy
and you're the guy in the background like my life sucks that's how life works isn't it for the most
part and so it's like fantasy it is a fact it is a total fantasy really but then he doesn't take the
fantasy route anyway it doesn't go that way and she's like on purpose because yeah like john hughes
wanted to correct what what he did in pretty and pink but yeah yeah yeah because life's not like that
that's not how it works we know that we learn that we find that out for ourselves and it destroys us
for what a couple of weeks maybe oh my gosh these yourself often the things that were so serious like
the fact that hardy jen's like threatens amanda like making her you know if you don't get back with me
i'm gonna make your this year a health deal yeah and he does we see her friends ice her out and stuff
yeah we see the stakes are so high for you know yeah but but for a teenager it is they were that
yeah yeah yeah it's wild that's why i i was like keith listen to your dad your dad has your best
interest that's what we think now yeah yeah yeah yeah i am keith's dad now uh-huh from beverly hills yes
yes yeah so yeah so finishing up on that as well yeah he was beverly hills cop midnight run and gone
baby gone also which yeah oh of course but so keith not keith hardy jens which that's a wild name
is played by craig sheffer and i loved craig sheffer in the program did you ever see the program he plays
like the star quarterback of whatever college no oh it's like one of my favorite sports movies of all
time it's about football i think i've even heard of it oh it's so good 90 mid 90s yeah so that's who i
know him from but a river runs through it and then i guess he's in the one tree hill or he was in the
one tree hill tv show which i never watched but he kind of went away i don't know what happened to
craig sheffer but he was kind of heartthrobby yeah i know him from a couple of movies he was in a horror
movie called uh night night breed which was clive barker who did hellraiser he was the lead in that
but that kind of didn't do very well and he's in a there's a really good movie called fire in the sky
which is based on a true story like a ufo a production oh oh and he's it there's a i think there's a group of
guys working in the forest on you know timber and stuff and they're they're driving home one night and
they see a fire in the sky and one of the guys gets out of the car and runs towards it and they're like
no no no don't go there don't go there and he disappears for i don't know weeks or months and then
mysteriously shows up again and says and this is based on a true that's quite a well documented
the production that does sound interesting it's really quite bizarre film and he's in that and
he's i think he's like a bully and that he's got that kind of swagger about he does he does and that's
why in this i'm a little bit i guess that's with the knowledge of what he did later i'm like come on
man craig sheff would have kicked the crap out of it but he's supposed to be that like pretentious
rich like he's too too good to lower himself to even take out the trash so to speak well me and scott
me and scott do this all the time we do a little bit of fantasy filmmaking where i'm sort of like
let's be honest james spader should have played him in the in well he was in pretty and pink yeah i know but
that's the that's my point really is that's that character craig sheffert and i see what you mean you
know like yeah he is more tough i think he's i think he kind of pulls it off the both he is like
right in this movie though i think he pulls it off but i liked that he was he could beat the hell out
of keith like physically but he's like my guys can do that for me yeah but i think but that's the clever
the clever thing about the movie is eric stoltz as keith he probably would have got his ass kicked
yeah but that's gonna make people hate you more than they already do if you beat me up
you know people it's kind of one of them things where you know i've seen this in other movies where
eric stoltz is manipulating the situation in his way i'll beat you i'm smarter than you
you know you're just a sleazebag who thinks everyone loves you but everyone hates you anyway
and if you do this i'll let you do this you know what i mean it's not even i don't even need to win
this punch up or fight that's a good point because i win either way true but do you also think maybe he
had a little extra confidence knowing that elias is it elias or elias elias elias cotias's character
and his crew come to save the day does he know that's a that's a yeah yeah i see where you're coming from
but i i ultimately think i don't think eric stoltz really cares if he gets beat up yeah yeah both can
be true yeah but yeah i think he's a bit like i'm gonna stand up to you because i've been in situations
like that myself with bullies where i'm like yeah you're a bully and you're tougher than me
but i'm not scared of you i see i would be i'd be like don't be me no it doesn't matter
that i'm scared of you or that you're tougher than me but if i don't stand up for myself
what am i true i mean and that's these are the things but these lessons i'm not talking about now
i'm talking about in my kid when you're a kid you you're like i don't care because you know i'll brush
myself off and i'll get on with it but i'm not going to back down and be a wuss you know these are the
things the in them times you know but i guess in more hysterical sensitive times of now you can
even make a film like this oh there's well there are a lot of particular scene that makes when she's
with the headmaster yeah with the headmaster where i'm like people would be losing their minds over this
i actually kind of forgot i was like oh my god is she and it wore oh my god so you guys if you don't
remember the scene amanda straight up like very suggestively flirts i don't know how else to describe
it with i guess that mr whoever who's the in charge of detention for that week or that day the the driver's
ed teacher to get out of detention she like pulls his tie and is touching him flirty tell him she likes
his hair it was because he's bald so that's quite funny it was balding and it works she gets out of
detention like that like yeah gross but it is it is very sort of like you couldn't do that now no no
and watts wouldn't be they punch down at her being not like traditionally a girl yeah well so elias
kotias i loved him in this he plays duncan i guess he was discovered by john hughes auditioning for
another john hughes movie she's having a baby that's with kevin bacon yep yeah and it was his suggestion
that he would be cast in the role of duncan and i guess elias kotia studied acting under peter
masterson who is mary stuart masterson's dad oh interesting yeah and you guys he's a super familiar
face like the thin red line the movie shooter and he was uncredited and she's having a baby
what do you know him from i can't name things i'm just like oh i know him do you know what i saw him
in a film called i think the first film i saw him in was in a film called well apart from this
one of the first times i saw him was a film called the prophecy with christopher walken kind of a
horror yeah virginia madsen's in it as well kind of like the angels coming down to take a bait this baby
from this woman because they think that's gonna end the war between heaven and hell it's all very
they've got morten's in it as well oh i can't believe i haven't seen this it's good but i was i was at that
point when i saw him in the prophecy which got about four seagulls that you don't want to watch
okay just the track down the prophecy because it is a little bit of a gem but he i just thought he
looked like robert de niro he does have that look sort of like taxi driver robert in this yeah yeah he's
got that vibe about him but the prophecy is a really good little movie actually and that's been sort of
re-evaluated in time that's kind of got a bit of a status now that's where i remember him from
in his latest he was in the david fincher movie about the yeah okay yeah yeah so he's in that i mean
it's not a big role but there are there's only a couple of big roles in that movie but he's in that
he's kind of he's a character actor right he's yeah he's not he's never really he didn't elevate to
become a leader i don't think but he's he's a solid character actor super yeah super solid he he was
probably one of my favorite characters tons of movies really yeah totally i think a lot of the
people in this like i said i i really enjoyed the performances even tertiary characters like shane
is the best friend of amanda she's played by molly hagan she's a very familiar face but she's kind of
one of those she's been in a few long time tv series that i was unfamiliar with but i was sort
of like god why do i know why does she look so familiar it is because i'm a big golden girls fan
and she was in one episode of the golden girls where she plays the bitchy daughter of rose's boyfriend
and is trying to break them up who among us doesn't love the golden girls right it is so good i'll sing
the theme tune if you want but you might have to read it out oh my god i love it so much there's a
i can't i couldn't find the guy's name but the ginger head well not scott coffee ray he's in the low he's
in a lot of kind of movies he was really good in this too like he had some funny lines in this yes oh my god
so ray played by scott coffee who you you've seen him but he's not well known he he's the guy that
watts like uses to try to make to flirt jealous yeah yeah what were the lines he's like do you know how
much damage we could do to each other in that was horror that was she's like that's revolting and he's
like what is revolting me so there were a lot of funny bits like that it's all i always found it
it's it's humorous it's not laugh out loud funny it's more it's it's like subtle humor and not
yeah it's just not over the top giggles as such it is it's it's just kind of like it's just fun
but in a more subtle way i i just think it's not a comedy is it no it's a drama but it's i mean
it's very well written and john hughes i think showed up for this sometimes i mean he i as i've seen in a
few of my recent episodes like he i was like what's going on here you know but this i feel like he really
showed up even the the sister so there's a couple sisters that that keith has laura like the middle
sister is played by maddie corman and she's a working character actress i recognized that but
i'm not sure from what she's got a few recurring shows on mr president was a late 80s show all american
girl was a mid 90s show i'm not familiar with them i did see that she was in three episodes of law and
order playing three different characters you know how shows like that will reuse people put her in a wig
yeah yeah so that's maddie corman the mom is played by carol nelson and she i didn't recognize her at all
but she is apparently an extremely well-known soap actress general hospital in days of our lives which
i don't i've heard of i've heard of what did you think of candace cameron in this playing the
littlest sister she was great so great for all that little knowledge facts
she was brilliant like it was a strange again all the characters kind of had something at their moment
yeah and her character trait was like what would you say she's eight maybe i don't know how old do you
think yeah yeah roughly around that so she had some like her vocab and intellect were like that of the
college professor but it's funny because it's coming out of a of an eight-year-old's mouth and she delivers
i mean she was really good i think naturally yeah yeah i mean high praise and i usually don't like
kids in movies but it's clear why she went on to become a successful child actor right yeah no i
from the start of the movie i was like oh she's funny she's but again it's done in a more of a quirky
way she's just got these factoids in her head that she's just this isn't a well-balanced meal i think
i'm missing one of the major food groups or something like that yeah yeah so yeah she was great too
did you recognize china phillips from wilson phillips in this do you know who her character was
no i knew she was in this and then i had kind of forgotten when i was watching to look for her
this was one of her earliest film appearances predating her like wilson phillips from the 90s
music career yeah um and famously china phillips is the daughter of john and michelle phillips
the mamas and the papas music group that's right yeah well also about her i didn't realize this
but she has been married to billy baldwin since 1995 they're still married wow so she anyway so her
she has a name i guess her name is mia in this and she plays the blonde girl that we see hardy like
cheating on amanda with yes that's who she plays by the lockers yes yeah we see her a couple times
and then the museum guard is played by carmine caridi who is a also familiar character actor so
the museum guard is also apparently duncan's dad that was kind of a fun and that's how duncan gets him
access to the museum right um for the big the big date and he was in both the godfather 2 and the
godfather 3 but in different roles i don't i didn't get time but i recognize him from something else and it's been
driving me absolutely nuts so i'll have to i'll have to study up on him because he's been in a lot of things
he yeah he has i never watched the tv show fame but he played angelo in that
that might be where i recognized him from and also i don't know if you ever watched nypd blue bruno's dad
was that bruno's i don't know i think that might be now you've said it you know that's all coming
yeah i i didn't watch that but he played detective vince gotelli on nypd blue also yeah no it wouldn't
be from that that might very well be from fame fame yeah yeah maybe which was about roughly the same time
the tv show anyway good point yes yeah mid 80s yeah even the gym teacher i was like god who is she
the woman she's played by lee garlington that's her name i know a few things yes that she's been right
so she is the um one of the villains from die hard with a vengeance oh right she's a she's a fight
she's a she's a good cop gone bad oh and she does the same and she does when they're at the school
that when the and she's pretty much does the same thing in the stallone movie cobra
yes she that's yes you're right because he see catches her at the at the payphone where she's
telling them where they're gonna be blind and yeah yeah and in the first episode i believe of
seinfeld she's the waitress who gives george coffee with caffeine in it i don't remember that
because he says i can't drink i can't drink caffeinated oh okay i think because george says
something you're a waitress and she's go how did you notice george she says something like she's kind
of like this quippy yeah waitress so she's the waitress in the first episode of seinfeld
so well that would track because she she has 236 acting credits so she's got a very familiar face
and a lot of her work is in like an episode or two here and there of like well-known tv shows
and some of her longer running roles were everwood and the show townies and the show lenny so i'm i
haven't seen any of those and then she was the angry pta mom in field of dreams too but yeah lee
garlington super familiar everybody really brought it as soon as i saw her i was like i know her yeah
she's yeah he plays a crooked cop yes the co-writer yes yeah and the waitress in seinfeld yeah yeah
that's her she's great actually and at first that's kind of a shame she wasn't she didn't stay in
seinfeld because she was great she's only in it for two minutes yeah they could have had her be like a
the wait they're always in that diner yeah yeah yeah yeah she could have been like another
little character because she's honestly she's in it for less than two minutes really but
everything she says she's really sarcastic and just and just yeah shut up you know she's just
and because i think she's like she's like says to george no i didn't really give you decaf and he freaks
out because he's so neurotic isn't he yeah yeah yeah she's she's good in this yeah she's good in this
too but like you say everyone's got their moment and everyone's everyone's memorable yeah i've and i
liked them i i guess i like you find something to like in in everybody except for hardy because
we're meant to really we're even the opening scene and i'm like this we're not supposed to believe this
this guy's in high school are we with this like blazer jacket and his sports car i feel like a lot
of these people i'm like what what was the costuming because they i feel like people were dressed as if they
were adults with a mortgage like this like short even like leah's yeah that that's very conservatively
yeah dressed aren't they apart from what's yeah kind of all punk rock but that's you know uh but
yeah that 80s kind of pastely
vibe there's just not anything relatable to me yeah i mean it was the preppy look because they're supposed
to be like the rich kids but then even leah i'm like no one's wearing that on a date you look like
you're going to the office well i did actually think one thing about leah thompson she did have
40 year old mom's hair yeah you know she's got that really kind of very puffy poofy square kind of look
yeah i was a bit like it's a bit weird but apparently that was supposed to be very luxurious
and that was yeah well i guess like obviously in the back to the future she's got like the 50s
kind of yeah look but when i watched it the other night i was like yeah she looks really quite square
actually yeah we she wore the like the 50s hair too because she we covered her on because she played
the mom on the dennis the menace episode yep john who's wrote that okay yeah yeah yeah so but this is
like her early career like she's playing like she's the sought after popular girl she did win a young
artist award for this role right yeah she was in all the right moves i'm not certain am i right but
because this is a drama it offered more introspective it had that tone than a lot of the other teen movies
of this time and i guess a lot of them were comedies so to be fair but it feels like cooler and like
less mainstream especially than like pretty and pink and there was like a lot of like emotional
tension but also heartfelt moments and i don't know i think it lent itself to more realism keith's dad
and and keith both have a couple of blow up moments
where they're because he's obviously angry at his son for not taking college the prospects of going to
college seriously you know and then keith is angry that his dad doesn't trust him and that he doesn't
know what he's doing and i kind of i did like that that there was a bit of weight to them moments where
they're you know you should be taking this seriously and you've blown all your money and keith's like i know
what i'm doing you never listen to me you know all them there was some real i really felt i felt it
quite well and i've i know eric stoltz i i'm kind of i kind of like i kind of like what he does okay
it's very understated like he yeah also watts is just shown to be tortured emotionally throughout the
whole movie and i think she does that well yeah no she's she's great in this and he did probably
it probably should have ended up with her i think well to your point about him saying to his dad you
know trust me i've got this no he doesn't he blew his college money what was this plan i didn't understand
that argument was confusing and confounding to me because i'm like first of all because his dad's like
you don't need to spend a bunch of money to try and impress this girl but it wasn't it was both that
he spent a lot of money on the date but also he bought this girl diamond earrings as if this were
some sort of engagement it's a date what i was going to trade him back in i guess once but i think he gives
them to watts at the end yeah so what was this what was his do you think he was planning to get no but i think
actually we're looking at it as sensible adults when we'd probably i'm not saying i did that but
i'm just saying when you you're right head over heels and he makes these decisions to do these things
but that's why you're right the argument didn't like his argument should have been
not that he knows what he's doing i've got this handled because he doesn't like his argument to his dad
should have been whatever his reasons for actually wanting to give her the earrings and spend the money
on that instead because you're right but obviously i'm just i'm trying to think of it as but he's a
teenager he's just a kid and he's just making the mistakes you know he's making the mistakes kids make
and his dad's like the voice of reason but when you're that age you don't want to hear it
so no of course ultimately no don't blow your savings on a pair of earrings for a girl you're not even
going to end up with she's not going to like you because you bought her earrings and if she does she's
the wrong girl but that's an adult talking that's not a 16 year 17 year old kid is going to be like
shut up leave me alone get off my back it's me against the world but he is 18 though like what is
he is he 18 yeah they say it sometimes he's 18 you know this is because his dad he's he's right because
we see his dad really trying to like i want him to have a good business head and the teachers are like
no he's really in art whatever and he's like yeah well he can do that in his side time or whatever
he's being logical and i get that that that keith probably is into more arts but what's his get off
your ass and go to college keith what what is your plan for your future i just don't like even an 18 year
old you would think like you're about to graduate pretty soon and then what what's your plan here
no you're absolutely right but i guess yeah this is a movie i'm just trying to yes yes yes yeah i think
like i say we're being thank you for bringing me back to earth we're being we're being keith's dad
right now yeah we've all done stupid shit when we were kids and i'm just like that's real it is i guess
i don't know i guess i didn't buy because i was more level like no i wasn't you know when i was 17
someone diamond earrings either i never would have done that i i knew i i knew there was life for me
after high school that i had to do something with my life well actually i didn't really remember when i
was well i don't know actually by the time i was 18 i had a job so you know because we like i say we
left school when we were 16 yeah yeah so you leave school i left school at 16 and went did the first
college course said let me do because i left school with no real qualifications and a year later i had a
job so me ever be in a situation to buy diamond rings for the high school sweetheart was not really
but to sidetrack slightly all the right moves tom cruise lee thompson there you go is it okay yeah
all right anyway i feel like i haven't seen that no that's yeah 1983 so it's an early cruise oh yeah
very okay but yeah so i'll but to go back to get back to i think yeah ultimately that was a stupid thing to
do but you know he's in love and he's he's got his head in the clouds he's a dreamer and he's just
yeah true true i guess he's not smart is the dad not doing does you know it was a it was a nice moment
where the dad he's like i got this dad i know what i'm doing and the dad is like okay okay he backs off
but he doesn't have it so that's why i'm like no that's factual you're not wrong but i'm just yeah yeah
thinking yeah but when you know i did stupid shit when i was a kid so what was the i feel like this is
a thing in movies too where like he plans the most elaborate date they have multiple locations there's
a driver watts plays that you know they get this cool car and he buys the diamond earrings and it all
leads up to this magical moment sort of but and what's is dressed as some sort of kinky chauffeur yeah
she was really trying because then there are a lot of moments in that last like the date part that i was
a little confounded by and first of all why if once he even knows that it's a joke he goes through with
this elaborate thing why why does he do that it was like a proposal yeah it's a good question and
and like i say you know relate relatability and stuff i'm just kind of like i'm not even sure
i was confident enough as a 17 year old to even approach a girl who i felt that way out of my league
so the fact that he's not only done that but got her to go out with him and has planned this elaborate
evening in a museum and a fancy restaurant and he's brought diamond earrings i think reality kind
of goes out the window but they argue a few times i guess he's supposed to maybe in his head he's like
i will convince her i will make her fall in love with me and it'll it'll all work out and then he only
later realizes that is the true love that he has was watts all along yeah but even during the date they
argue a few times like at the fancy restaurant and so it's sort of like do they both know like the way that she
is like well let's just end this right now he's like no no and then later at the amphitheater he finds out she
didn't know about the setup to go to hardy hardy jen's house like the party later and then they argue about both of them
using each other but then he's like guilts her into taking the earrings by saying basically i've worked
everything i have is right here and i i you shouldn't have to borrow earrings you're special enough to own
them yeah that's a bit hard to swallow all that that i get that you're right but at this point in the movie i
guess you're just off to the races with the whole idea of the plan and i'm just like i'm sort of
thinking memory of the end i wasn't sure about but i just i did just think that was going to end with
him and craig sheffer out on the lawn he gets beat up for her love yeah yeah yeah and wins the end wins
and then decides i don't need you anyway and and goes off with what's but you know it just sort of
ends with this kind of like i'm gonna let you guys do what you want to me i don't care and you're all
gonna look worse than me so you know and then nothing happens really i just felt a little bit yeah it was
because even when the quote-unquote like thug kids come in and you're like oh they saved the day and
they're gonna kick their asses but then they don't even it was just like their mere presence was
intimidating enough to you know rich tough guy but deep down he's not a tough guy party and he didn't
want his house to get ruined i suppose and so yeah it was that bit was a little anticlimactic and then
they go outside and it was it in that moment did amanda see so because she accepted the earrings
and then they go to the party and you know they have this moment where he stands up for her
and then they go to leave so in the moment when they go to leave is she still like liking him like
thinking they're going to date and then in that split second where he she sees that he sees watts
in the way that watts sees and she sees their connection yeah i and that's when she gives the
earrings back yeah i kind of felt like when they left the part in their outside with the craziness
that's gone on she'd just forgotten about watts when she saw watts and what the drama that's just
happened she's probably just thinking you should not like you shouldn't be with me because i'm a bad
person like she suddenly becomes and you know enlightened and i think she just did think like
you know you're already in love really and you're the only one who doesn't know it yes but it's not like
she's turning over newly because she never was the horrible girl that no no i guess her arc was that
she had historically just like always dated the pop like she was the thing to have on your arm
yeah and she realizes now that she should be alone for a while and like just be who she is yeah she's
she doesn't need to go out of the frying pan into the fire
she's like jumping from one guy to the next that's not who she is she's an individual she's a clever girl
and and and the only one i mean i guess the only one who's not clever is keith because even she yeah
you know because she's like well i can see
who you really want but then he sees it like we see his like memories of their practice kiss which was
supposed to be super hot and it wasn't at all like that was an awkward not good kiss but they're like
he's practicing kissing with watts and then he realizes that she's the one that felt kind of rushed
like the ending like him yeah and then what doesn't align to it was all good like i i'm poking holes
in this because there were things that kind of don't mesh or don't align like you knew you were gonna get
those earrings all along he says to watts like what and then she's like i hoped or i had a feeling and
it was like no that doesn't track with what we were shown in the movie at all yeah well i guess like you
say they've they've kind of like right let's wrap this up yeah yeah for sure yeah but i did think she
didn't she say like yeah i think she does say yeah i really wanted those earrings anyway and she's yeah
yeah that's a little bit again that goes against who she is rep tried to represent herself as it
throughout the whole movie she didn't need no one she didn't need nothing from anyone you know and
then suddenly oh i want the i want the diamond earrings you're like hang on a minute that's not
who she is yeah good point yeah i guess but i guess at that point that's just let's wrap this movie up
that was just a little moment but yeah so yeah that's a fun movie and that's a nice movie and so
it hasn't always got to be so dark i watch a lot of dark things yes yes you know there was a lot of
like class was ever present like the differences in class was really present in this and you said
something about him like he wasn't really wrong side of the tracks but i think he was meant
to to be like the kid from the wrong side of the tracks sort of like the dialogue tells us that he's
working class like he works that you know he'd be the first to go to his family uh or first in his
family to go to college like he goes to the gas station like we see but then when we see his house
it's like a very nice well manicured lawn and house like in california that's like a two million
dollar house probably so i think was it something like the younger sister says something like oh he
didn't want you to see where he lives and you're like well she's trying to play it up like to the rich
kids oh he's just being modest like we have homes in xyz in paris and yeah i think there is that yeah
because he yeah he is that sort of you know he gets his hands dirty and he's he's a working class kid
and that is that very thing of um she's too good for me you know i always think like um
when you when you when you say someone oh she's too good for me and someone but in a movie
someone or someone will say no one's too good for you and you're like no some people are too good for
yeah we all know that we all know that but some people are out of your league right
they just and some no one's out of your league you can you can be whoever you want in that you know
no you can't no you can't in the movies yeah yeah but really and that's why that's why there's a
way that separation and that's why movies like this i can only like to point because i'm like this
isn't you're trying to represent a bit of reality but this isn't how i in in reality she wouldn't
have even said yes to a date with you and if she did you'd have got the shit kicked out of you by that
guy yes the reality for sure he creates these little you know john hoos is very good at creating these little
you know they're not fantasy worlds but they're kind of uh happy they're still they're still happily ever after
yeah yeah i mean that's so to think we've kind of wanted that was the the better choice like he should
have been with watts and so they ended absolutely yeah absolutely but what's in reality would have said you had
your chance see you later but that's only a you've got to think as well it's only a year later i think
that we got heathers which we've went on a ride that was like yeah you're right you're right it's like
yeah yeah yeah yeah but they're such a world apart from i mean that it's not i mean that's commenting on
the john hoos era i guess but then that would have been written while you know who knows when heathers
was actually written that was written probably at the same time as these john hoos movies you're right
this was like the latter end of the heyday of this kind of movie because can't buy me love was still in
this vein like the the same vein as some kind of wonderful and i think that was not 87 as well
and then heathers was like completely different i it was sort of like the late 80s seemed more similar to
the early 90s so 87 might be just that like mid 80s cut off yeah that's where the that's there's a sort
of a cut off like uh you know and then i mean realistically heathers is strangely more realistic than
you you know that's a really good point yeah yeah i mean it's like from the murder and like stuff but
yeah i mean yeah i mean i would say i'm more christian slater than eric stoltz but i'm certainly
not like christian slater i didn't bomb it blow up yeah i didn't know but i was probably a little bit
more that way than the mr sort of everything's going to work out for me no matter what but but yeah but
you know if you watch the two you know the the heathers and the and whatever john who's movie
that's kind of like a a flip side of that coin yes yeah that's a good way of putting it yeah yeah
yeah but you've still got the girl who's trying to fit in with all the other girls and then the guy
comes along and he's like let's kill them all i think yeah it's still like the one doesn't fit in the
group and then but then yeah they've got their own little revenge the girls got their own code and
their own little um uh slang words and you know and you've got all this sort of angst the angsty high
school stuff and then this psychopath shows up you know that that's more my yeah you know i love heathers
too that's a great yeah that's great that's a good one but regarding like the critics of some kind of
wonderful i guess and this this totally tracks with our conversation that we've been having this
whole time is that a lot of critics actually dismissed the movie as being just like a clone
of pretty and pink but roger ebert gave this movie three stars saying some kind of wonderful is yet
another film in which hughes and his team show a special ability to make an entertaining movie about
teenagers which is also about life about insecurity about rejection about learning to grow i sometimes have
been the i sometimes have the peculiar feeling that the kids and hughes movies are more grown up than the
adults and most of the other ones that's what ebert says and he's right i think there you go he just said
it in five seconds that took me an hour but well you know we have to we have to say something i'm not just
read reviews well no but he's he's usually yeah the money um and yeah i mean i guess see this is what
what i said earlier about how we watch these movies and see ourselves in them we're looking for answers
that we can't ask people for because we're too embarrassed or anxious about whatever
john hughes is a very smart guy so if you're looking for answers as a kid as a teenager you're
probably better watching a john hughes movie than asking your best friend that's a good point i mean
yeah he's probably gone through it yeah your friend is clueless as you don't know anything yeah
so i sort of always i always think that about movies like you can probably you can probably find
the answer you need in a movie more than you can from the person who stood next to you you know
because these guys are a lot cleverer because they write for a living yes they've thought about
smarter good point i mean so i always sort of sometimes think like when i used to watch these
movies like breakfast club and you name it you know the answer is probably right there
for whatever definitely definitely in some of them like breakfast club that like there are a number that
that are why he was this famous and then there are other times where i think he just got lazy and just
threw a bunch of tropes in a hat and was like bing bang boom here's no one's yeah i know i guess it's a job
to everyone yeah this is an example of him really i think he showed up yeah i do as well and i think
when i watched this the other night i was like this is probably of that ilk of film this is a pretty smart
one it is you know it in intellectual you know it's quite intellectual it's quite you know it it's a
familiar kind of story but the characters are a lot smarter than you you get in a lot of them sort of
films very well developed characters i agree and it to the point of it being more intellect like intellectual
i feel like i'm too stupid because like things go over my head for example the amanda jones being from
the rolling stones well in the similar well i didn't so also watts so john hughes being a big
like rock and roll fan watts is named after charlie watts like the character watts drummer the drama from the
and keith keith keith richards that was on purpose those names were on right see i have what that went
right over my head but i didn't me too me too yeah yeah yeah yeah but um but um but yeah what's the
craig chef his name hardy hardy see like the moment at the gas station where he's really obnoxious
yeah it's a key right now he's doing that to impress
amanda but that but you know that shows the flaw in him that that's not that's not what impresses
a girl that's kind of like when they say that's kind of like that thing of um
i read i read it somewhere where it was like something to do with women warning signs like red
flags if you go out on a date with a guy if he's horrible to the waiter get out of there
a hundred percent that's the same yes that's the same sort of thing so you know i actually don't think
he was doing it i think his character is just so egotistical that he gets off on you know using his
class his status to make keith feel small and he knows that keith has been looking at his girlfriend
and so he's like you know trying to like being like a gorilla of sorts and he even says don't don't look
at my property and so we're like oh we really hate this guy i mean look there's a difference between
making yourself look big and making other people look small yeah yeah yeah there's nothing wrong
with making yourself look big and standing but not at the expense of others yes if i said the expense of
others that's a you know yeah don't yeah make yourself look big by all means but don't make other people look
small and that's who he is and and that's all revealed isn't it at the end he's a very small guy
he is a bit yeah you're right you're right coming full circle like again like a lot of the things that
happen are unexpected despite this being a formulaic movie so it's like you know that's interesting did you know
that howard deutch the director and leah thompson fell in love while filming this movie and they have been
married ever since i never i had no idea yeah they got married in 89 i guess and i guess their daughters are
actresses madeline and zoe deutch i don't know who they are but yeah yeah i didn't know well no never thought never thought to look
interesting well you know since i do this podcast i i do a little bit of research on these people
no i mean i expect nothing less i yeah i'm just you know i'm just a schlub who you know watch this movie after
oh i'm god i'm old it's not what i think a long time i know i'm like can i do math no i think i think i
think it was around about when it came out yeah because this would have been a this would have been
straight to video in the uk i would have thought so a few years later or the same time oh yeah no i would
have seen it roughly at the time it came out but that would have gone straight to video here i remember i
distinctly remember seeing on the video shelves in the store i used to live in the video shops yeah
yeah it was the best time that was the form that was the time that was the formative time a bit
getting into movies at my age that was like the video store was you know you'd go to the video store
no it's been like an hour at this yeah yeah you'd know full well what you were going to rent but you'd
still stick around and just look at everything and read every box and you know because you might get a
second movie right you'd get what you went there for and then you might get a second movie yeah yeah
i always remember my video store if you rented a new a new release you could rent two older releases for
like a dollar or something next to yeah yeah yeah and yeah no that's why i guess and that's why back
then we used to re-watch so many things good well and things were on tv too like we didn't have
streaming so when the tv was on you only had so many channels and we only had three oh wow
i think by the time i was 15 we had four
but that's the thing isn't it because like before that i mean there was a time when you only got to
see a movie if you went to the cinema or whether it was on tv and you never knew what was going to show
up on tv so you know the video age was you know forget now being able to buy blu-rays and 4ks and having
60 inch tv sets you know at that particular time you know you a video shop opened and you could oh my
oh my this is huge this is it was an amazing time yeah i mean i was a kid in 87 and that's why too
speaking of nostalgia of the video store i about died you guys when we first meet camera candace
cameron's character she's playing with garbage pail kids cards do you remember those steve or were you
sort of no i can remember those yeah yeah oh my god those were so that was like a huge nostalgia hit for
me watching i was like well you know nostalgia is not a dirty word you know there's nothing wrong with
you know like say nostalgia is not what it used to be some people say but you know it's it's like you
you know oh you know i like this film for nostalgic reasons there's nothing wrong with that yeah you
know yeah there's there's plenty of films i love that you know oh certainly films that probably don't
live up to the current standard but they meant a lot they mean a lot to us and that's why we still talk
about them because they have a mass and they have a massive impact on you and this is what going back to
what i said earlier at this particular at that particular age we were we were probably subconsciously
learning through the films you know yeah i'm like that guy or i want to be like that girl or
whoever we were you know just like there are lessons like don't they're all in there they're all in
there you know and there's there's a lot in this movie i think you could really you know you could really
take away there is knowledge there really is yeah you know so yeah there you go great movie it indeed
one more bit of trivia before we head out regarding the casting of amanda
molly ringwald you know common you know hughes and molly had a had a very close relationship for a while
she was offered the role of another redhead offered the role of amanda but refused it
ending her successful relationship with john hughes i think that would have been a huge mistake
because it's just that that's literally just redoing pretty in pink if he had cast yeah and obviously
i guess the type cast and thing she was probably you know oh she yeah for sure i don't she doesn't say
high school princess to me even though i always thought that too i talked about it on the breakfast
club episode she doesn't she doesn't have that look about her but maybe that's why it was interesting
like she's she's not traditionally beautiful either yeah whereas leah thompson is you know she can sell
character and everything but if you were you know the high school princess she
she hasn't not traditionally got that look right right yeah i agree and i up so i think it's worked
for the best uh-huh 100 at that particular time and i think leah thompson was pretty
a name at that point yeah yeah she did yeah to the future big time you know and various other things
she had going on and howard the duck obviously um so yeah i think that worked out for the best indeed
that certainly did for leah thompson because you got married to the director yeah and they're still
married i don't know why i'm always like gleefully happy when i hear that people are still married
for some because it's so rare that's a goddamn miracle yeah well the statistics are yeah right yeah well
that's that thing isn't it the statistics of if you equate the statistics of marriage to jumping out of
doing a parachute jump you'd never leave the plane no no it is wild to me that people still do it
you know yes and all that some people love that but i think that's yeah marriage is
tricky apparently yeah i dodged that bullet me too me too well on that note i always say that to a married
couple as well i always lands like a lead balloon because i know i dodged that bullet and they just
look at each other and think most of the time if you would say something like most people would probably
be like yeah i mean yeah yeah they might know but yeah in my experience that's gone down like a lead
balloon well that does take us to the end of our look at some kind of wonderful while it does have
its flaws i think it's easily one of the most underrated john hughes teen movies and honestly it
outperforms pretty and pink in every way huge thanks to my guest steve smith for joining me on
this trip back to 1987 tell us where we can hear more from you steve well all you wherever you get your
podcasts spotify wherever men of action podcast and the dropping a bruce podcast which which land every month
is a great time and we want you to check us out because we're pretty sure you'll have a good time
as well so that's where you can find us great and before i sign off if you're enjoying retro made which
i hope you are consider leaving a rating a review or even dropping a small tip through the captivate
support link in the show notes it's a huge help in keeping the nostalgia rolling until next time be kind rewind
you
you
you
you
you
Thank you.