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Building a business shouldn't mean losing your mind.
Strategy, Solutions, & Sanity is the real-world business podcast for owners and leaders who are serious about scaling — but don't want to drown in chaos while doing it.
Host Samantha C. Prestidge cuts through the noise with practical insights on hiring, delegation, team building, operations, and leadership for family businesses and second-stage entrepreneurs.
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📍 📍 📍 Hi everyone. All right. Welcome to another week of Strategy Solutions. And Sanity Today as a guest is a powerhouse of just amazing business knowledge in all the cool ways, it's Miss Nikki, the sales maven. Good morning. Thanks for joining us.
Good morning. I'm so happy to be here with you.
Yeah, Nikki, I first peeped your content like maybe four-ish years ago, and one of the things I always really respected about your style was you have this, I don't know how to put it into words.
I almost ChatGPT'd it this morning and I was like, no, I'm just gonna flail live. It'll be fine. Um, but you have this essence about you of like. You can tell, okay, this woman knows her stuff and it's not like this. Boisterous. Like my solution is the Bible. It's just a, yeah. If you want results, I know the solution for you.
If you don't want results, carry on your way, you know? Yeah. Um, so give us a little bit of insight of how you, of like your whole journey and like how you came to be the sales maven.
Thank you and thank you for that sweet compliment. I love that. Uh, so how I came to be the sales maven. So I, outta college, I started, got my first professional sales job and I was in the tech space, so selling technology and did that for many, many years.
As a matter of fact, for over 17 years I was in that space. And while in that space, selling in a very male dominated industry, closing big deals, like multimillion dollar deals and really kind of a high pressure situation I, I got really curious because there's this misconception about like you either are born with this natural charisma or you're not.
And so you're either good at sales or you're not. And that's baloney. So I believe everybody can learn how to sell successfully, and I wanted to learn how to sell in this very male dominated. Way with my own style because I'm actually shy and like you said, I was never the in, in, back in my day, in the late 19 hundreds when I was in sales.
Um, you know, it was this like, go out and hunt the big game and like this very bro, I know you hear the term bro marketing, but it was very bro sales too.
And so I just didn't fit that. Like, that just wasn't me. And so I found my way to. A type of communication. It's, it's, uh, neurolinguistic programming.
And I started studying neurolinguistic programming because I thought it'll help me feel more confident in my sales conversations. And it definitely did. It actually made me just an overall better communicator. And if that's a new term to, to your listeners. Neurolinguistic programming, kind of the breakdown of it is neuros how we process information in our brains.
Linguistics is language, so how you speak, the internal dialogue you have, how others speak to you, the word choice and the way we put words together and all that. And then the programming is about habits and patterns. And so I started studying N LP to get better at sales. It made me better as a communicator and.
Then I got really curious about like, what else is out there for me. Because I'd been in my industry for so long and I got pretty well known in the industry and had a lot of success there, but it kind of felt like, is this it? Like is there anything else out there? And that feeling got very intense.
Ended up leading me to start my own business sales maven, and I started it because for the first time I started hanging around a bunch of women business owners. I mentioned now a couple times, very male dominated industry that I came from. So for me to be in a room where there was like 50 or a hundred women that had never happened.
And business businesswomen, I was just like. These women are amazing and I wanna spend as much time as possible with these women. And as I got to know some of them, I really just wanted to be around them. 'cause I was so inspired. And I found that a lot of them were really struggling with their sales conversations.
They just, they didn't understand what a buying signal was. They didn't understand how to have a conversation that didn't feel like gross and manipulative. So then they didn't sell. And so I started kind of just helping some of them on the side and eventually my business was born because people were like, you gotta help people with this.
You gotta teach these things. So, here I am now the Sales Maven I get to work with. The most amazing, brilliant people who are making huge impacts in the world and teach them how to have more comfortable sales conversations so that they can make that impact so that they can bring money into their business, and so they can do it in a way that is about relationship first.
Rapport always, and it just gets easy.
Hmm. Okay. There's a lot to unpack there. Okay. But I think first off is like, if y'all, if, if you haven't looked at Nikki's content, it is, it's amazing how you break down things that can feel very abstract, right. Of like, this is how people behave. And I think that goes back to the, the NLP stuff.
And you break it down in a very simple, easy to digest way and an easy to implement way Now. I will admit, when I first heard you say neurolinguistic programming, when I first kind of came across your content, I mean, I love to learn, but I am a huge skeptic as well. Mm-hmm. I think that sometimes people throw out the big, fancy words, and then when I get to know them, I'm like, you don't got shit to back that up.
So now I know that's not true about you, but let's go. No, I, I'm So there. Yeah. Yeah. So tell me, like, give us more insight into like what exact, I know you, we broke down kind of what it meant, the definition, but gimme more insight into really what it means and like why it works.
Okay. Yeah. So it's based on, you know, psychology and, and sociology and it's kind of a combination of all the things, but it's really like.
The, the most easiest way that I break it down is I tie it to my all time favorite quote. So my all time favorite quote is, blessed are the flexible for they shall not be bent out of shape. That's my all time favorite quote. Okay. I put this on the back of my workbooks, like it's, I just love this quote.
And that to me is the description of what NLP teaches you. It teaches you how to add flexibility. Now I get, and frankly, you should be a skeptic because there's a lot of NLP out there that's being done. Not good, right? And there's a lot of people that are teaching versions of, just like anything, it can be used for good, it can be used for bad.
And I always say like consumer protection for your own mind. Like ask questions. If something feels gross and manipulative, it is. So don't do it. And so you can pick and choose the things that work. And I always say the thing that I teach is sales isn't something that you do to another person.
'cause when you're doing something to somebody that is manipulative, that is gross, and frankly, it's not going to sustain your success and your ability to grow your business. Because most of us build our businesses on repeat business. And if somebody feels. Manipulated or pushed or shamed or anything like that from you, they're not gonna wanna come back.
So it's not about doing something to somebody. It's actually about doing something with, and here's where NLP comes in, is when you can add flexibility to your own behavior. You can notice how does this person. Prefer to be communicated with. What kind of words do they choose? What's their pacing as far as their voice?
Like how fast do they take speak? How slow do they speak? What kind of phrases do they use? You can ask questions in a way to get to the heart of the matter. What's important to this person and. Then we're now in this with conversation, and I always say, in order to be really successful at sales, three things need to be in place.
You need to understand, does this person have a need or a want for what it is that you offer? Does your solution meet that need or want? And here's the third one, and this is the kicker. Do you have permission to put your offer in front of them? They might have a need. Maybe you have a solution, but if you don't have permission to put it in front of them, you're probably not gonna earn their business, and frankly, they're not gonna enjoy the experience with you.
So can you ask questions in a strategic way that understands the need? Can you ask questions in a strategic way that plants seeds about your credibility, about your expertise about how your solution could potentially solve their problem. And then do you know how to ask permission to then put your offer in front of them?
Because once you have permission, when somebody's like, yeah, tell me more. Like, tell me how could I work with you? Or what would it look like for us to. Do X, Y, Z together. Now they're open to hearing your message. And how NLP really kind of comes into it is the person in the conversation, the buyer, the prospect, will be more open to hearing what it is that you offer.
They'll be more revealing about how to earn their business, and they'll stay in the conversation with you. They're not gonna ghost you. They're not gonna like, yeah, yeah. Send it over to me and I'll look at it. And then you never hear from them again. Right? Like you're doing things in a way that makes the conversation.
count it matters to the other person. There's a relationship, there's rapport. So it just, to me, it makes everything goes more smoother and your confidence grows as the seller and the buyer is confident. What they're getting is a real solution that's gonna meet their need, solve their problem, and they're gonna feel good about working with you, not because they're paying you money, but because they're making an investment in themselves and getting what they need.
Oh, I, the, just that feeling good aspect of things. 'cause when you have to drag someone along, it's not like magic and roses and like shiny rainbows. After they sign the contract and pay, most likely they kind of become this pita client. And you're confidence and like whatever you're delivering goes.
Goes down. And so I appreciate that, that breakdown because when I first heard it, I thought kind of, okay, I'm Reid in criminal minds, like analyzing someone's letter and all the words that they use. And then it was like, okay, I'm not quite that. I'm more of like this curious chameleon and I'm just transforming based on how someone needs me to communicate.
So I know like there are some people that. They are talkers in the sales process and it's like, okay, we had a 45 minute meeting. It's now 90 minutes. We're gonna go with this. Uh, but then I'll have other clients that are like one sentence emails and like, bada bing bad. Boom, we're done. And so knowing how it sounds like you really have to just know how to respond and like pick up on what is this specific person need mm-hmm.
In order to get across the finish line.
Yeah. And like, what's their style too, like you just said. And, you know, another way to think about this is think about when you meet somebody for the first time and you have a conversation with them, and you just feel like instant connection and you feel like, you know, you look down and an hour has gone by and it feels like 10 minutes.
Like, it's just been so comfortable and easy to be in that conversation. It's this idea of being in sync with somebody, right? And it's like easy, right? So on the flip side of it, think about when you meet somebody for the first time, and it's difficult to be in conversation with that person.
It feels like 10 minutes feels like an hour, and you feel like after having a conversation with them, you need to take a nap. You're exhausted. It's just, it's, you're so out of sync with them. So. NLP can teach you skills of how to make the conversation more in sync for the other person. So it isn't about you pretending to be something you're not, it's just about you adding some flexibility to behavior.
If somebody says to you. Um, like a friend, right? That says, I really need to talk, but can we go for a walk? And you go, yeah, let's go for a walk. And you're willing to walk with that person so that they can talk out what's going on with them. But another friend is like, I really need to talk to you.
Can we just sit somewhere quiet and do that? And you go, yeah, of course. We'll do that. We'll sit quiet and you can talk it out with me, right? Like, you're willing to be flexible with your friends or with the people that are important to you in your life. You should be flexible to your prospective clients too. Willing to adjust to meet them where they are so that.
We can determine like, am I talking to a potential client? Do I have a solution for them? Do I have permission for them, from them to put it in front of them? And if not, if it turns out it's not a good fit, I don't have permission, then you bless and release. It's not like, oh my gosh, you know, this person hates me.
They will never buy from me. Or, oh my gosh, this person is a bad person. It's like, no, it's just you're getting information, you're adjusting your style and. The easier you make it for people to be in conversation with you, the more likely they are to actually choose you as their solution. Because don't we wanna buy from people that we feel connected to?
That we feel like this person cares about me enough that I'm not just a wallet a, it's not a dollar sign on my forehead. Like they actually care about offering me something that's gonna matter. Like, okay. So be willing to adjust your style to make the other person feel comfortable in the conversation.
Yeah. I
mean, like to that point, there are clients that now one of our main service lines is US-based virtual assistants. Mm-hmm. And so clients know I am not the one dealing with them every, like, I'm not the one executing on that work every day. Now there are little sprinkles of Sam in that service, right?
You do get like a, there's brainstorm that happens. There's all the check-ins, there's some strategy that happens with me on that. But you're not talking to me every day and I'm not like your primary executor. Right. But there are plenty of people that like. I'm gonna sign because of the customer service that they felt in that sales process with me.
So there's real proof in the pudding there. Now I'm gonna take the skeptic role and, and we're gonna go with that theme for, for our episode today. 'cause I'm, I'm feeling it. I'm coffee'd up. I'm ready. Um, because Go,
go, Sam, go. I'm
curious. Yeah, right. Ah, because Okay. I'll be honest.
I, I don't. Always love hanging out in predominantly women-focused groups. Mm, okay. Right. I do. I do like a good co-ed space. Yeah, but that's your client base. Right. And so I'm curious because what I have found in a lot of those groups, and maybe this is more of like everyday personality versus how they show up in sales, but what I have found in those groups is it sometimes overcompensates on boundaries, which would go against the be flexible perspective. Mm-hmm. So is that something that you have noticed and experienced with your clients? Like, is that a big thing? Because I, I, I guess also, 'cause typically in in sales you wanna say like, Hey, if they're not a fit, that's okay. But I think sometimes we like. Want to check way too many boxes
mm-hmm.
On that. And there are,
there are clients that can be like 80% of a fit for you and like Yeah. We could still move forward with them. Yeah. So can you share some balance there?
Yeah. I will say again, because I pri I don't only work with women, I definitely have male clients as well. Um, and I actually really enjoy.
Working with men, because again, that's kind of my background of working with men. Yeah. But I really love working with women too. And I do find that they, they sometimes show up in these conversations about like, well, I don't, they're, they're, and so here's the thing, they're too concerned about, what is the other person thinking about me?
So they as in women, not that face And the men, women, yeah. Okay. No, no. Definitely women, men are like. Whatever, but, okay. So not, you know, that's a broad generalization, so bear with me here with some generalizations. Yeah. But sometimes with women, it's like, I, I'm worried they're gonna judge me, and so I don't wanna come off pushy or aggressive, and so I don't do anything.
I don't ask for the business and I actually, one of my most favorite clients, and she was a long, long-term client. We worked together for many, many years and I adore her before she was a client. She heard me talk. We were actually speakers. Both of us were speaking at an event and she heard me speak and in this I said, you know, it's your job to earn somebody's business and that means it's your job to invite them to the next step.
And I teach a lot around invitations. 'cause I think the idea of an invitation is just like, you know, imagine that. Your neighbor is throwing a block party and you're not really a block party kind of gal, but if you don't get an invitation and everybody else in the neighborhood does, don't you feel a little left out and your job is like, let people decide for themselves, but your job is to invite them.
Right? And so she said to me at, after she heard me talking about this and you know, explaining this idea of issuing invitations and showing examples of it, she said, um, well Nikki, here's the thing. I sell to adults. That's the first. So I was like, I was stunned. So she sells to adults. Like in my mind I'm like, who doesn't sell to adults?
Who's she comparing to? Like what, what is
going
on? What Nickelodeon
commercials are we looking at right now?
What? Like, what do you mean? And then she said, if people wanna buy from me, they'll let me know. And I said, oh yeah, that's not true. That's a lie. You're telling yourself. Yeah. People will not decide to.
Buy from you often until you invite them. So your job is to be on the lookout for buying signals. Your job is to issue those invitations and when you say it in the form of an invitation, now they can decline and it's not a big deal. Just like if you have a block party and some of the neighbors don't come, you don't be like, how dare you not come to my block party?
No, they maybe had other plans or maybe they're not a block party kind of person, and that's okay. Like it's not a big deal, but it is your job to earn the business, and that means you need to understand where you are in the conversation and when it makes sense to issue that invitation. Just going up to somebody at an event and being like, you know, I looked at your website.
Sucks. You totally need to hire me because I do websites and here's my card. And as a matter of fact, you should go watch the videos that I have on YouTube because you really need help. So I would love to work with you. So here, buy from me and people are like. Ugh, gross, right? But on the opposite, if somebody expresses interest and you're like, I don't wanna be pushy, I don't wanna be aggressive, so they can just let me know when they're ready, they walk away going like, wow.
Talking to Nikki was like, does she even wanna work with me? Maybe she doesn't even think I'm the kind of person who could learn how to sell. So maybe she doesn't think I'm good enough. Maybe she doesn't think I can afford her services. Wow. She's so high and mighty right? Like they're making up stories as to why I didn't invite them, and I'm over here going like, I don't wanna be pushy, I don't wanna be aggressive.
Like NO my job is to say, hey. Based on something you just shared, I wonder if it would make sense for us to have a conversation and see if there's an opportunity for us to work together. Is that something you'd be interested in? And just wait and see what they say? I've never had anybody in my, I'm almost embarrassed to say how long I've been in sales now, but it's really over 30 years.
I've never had anybody clutch their pearls and be like, how dare you invite me for my business? How dare you? No, they're always like. Hmm, not interested or like, yeah, let's talk about it. And I cannot tell you how many times people who have given me subtle signals and I've issued an invitation and they've kind of dipped their toe in the water and taken that one more step with me, that then they become a client.
And then by the time they're done working with me, it's not about like, oh, let's Pat Nikki on the back. She's so great. It's like I made this investment in myself and now. I feel so much better in my conversations, and what a great thing I did for me, not for Nikki, not for Nikki's business. It was like what I did for me.
Now, that would've never happened had I not been willing to put myself out there enough to issue that invitation. Hmm.
I'm curious also to these subtle cues. Yeah. Um, because you also talk about the selling staircase. Mm-hmm. And there's different cues in different stages, right. And I've also noticed like, sometimes there are people that go up a level in the staircase and then they walk on back and I'm, I, I have to catch myself 'cause I'm almost ready to take that next step with them.
And I'm like, oh wait, they're not here anymore. So can you help us understand what does it look like to. See those subtle cues and follow up questions does anyone ever find that exhausting? Because I would say for me, I think I'm a pretty aware person and so I think it's pretty easy to kind of have that emotional intelligence in a conversation.
But I would imagine for someone that's kind of just learning that level of awareness and, and emotional intelligence, that it could feel somewhat exhausting to like always be hyper-focused on those things.
Yeah, so here's what I would say to that is there is something like, it's like building a muscle.
And the thing about building a muscle is you have to work it a little bit and expecting to just go to the gym and then come out and be like, I've got rock hard abs and I have like incredible arm, muscles and I got all these muscles in my legs and man, my backside is like tight. Like thinking you're gonna go to the gym one time and come out like.
Every part of your body is gonna be ready, is unrealistic. And this is why when people go to the gym, they usually have days where they work certain parts of their body. So just like in selling at times, it's about learning that one thing. It's like, what's the thing right now that I could focus on that is manageable, that will allow for me to make some kind of an impact in my business. So I do teach the sales a successful sales conversation. I teach it. My signature framework is known as the selling staircase. I wrote my third book around it, and the reason I teach it as a staircase is because most of us understand when you stand at the bottom of a staircase, you ascend one step at a time.
And so I break a successful sales conversation into these five steps so that my clients can go, what step am I on right now in the conversation with somebody and based on this step, what is the logical thing for me to do or say next? It isn't about how do I, get through all five steps as fast as.
As possible and get to the end where we exchange dollars for services. Like that's nice, but that's not gonna happen in every conversation. And sometimes, like you said, somebody might move to step two or step three in the sales conversation and time goes by and for whatever reason, they start back on step one or step two again.
And your job is to just be able to understand what step am I on? And what makes sense for me to do or say next, to invite them to the next step. It isn't necessarily to go all the way up to step five, which is the close. Sometimes it's just about moving somebody. From step two, which is creating curiosity to step three, which is the discovery process.
And the way that you do that is by issuing invitations and this idea of subtle signals. I feel like I'm just talking so much here, so jump in. No, I'm at any point. I'm, I'm okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean, we,
we, we want to understand what does it look like to see subtle signals? So we had step two of Okay.
Create that curiosity. Yeah. So if I'm creating curiosity, I'm imagining that this person hasn't really like entered. The sales conversation with me's, right? They don right know that I'm about to sell to them. And that's where I think a lot of people maybe are missing a lot of opportunities, because those things can happen in regular networking conversations that happen everywhere.
Podcast, right? Like at your everywhere. I remember one time you talked about you always have like a, a, like, instead of saying like, when someone asks you, how's your week going, instead of just saying it's, it's fine, you have like a. What's your thing you're working on that week and like a hairdresser or someone got curious, right?
So what are those subtle signals before we're getting to discovery?
Yeah, so I call 'em buying signals. I wrote my second book about buying signals. They're in the third book too, because they're so important. So a buying signal is a verbal or a nonverbal cue that somebody gives that indicates interest.
And in the book there are 17 buying signals that I think people need to learn how to recognize. But here, I'm just gonna give you an example of one. And the one I'm gonna give you an example of, might seem so incredibly obvious, but it's one of the ones that people miss. So much because they don't take any action on it.
Okay, so here's a buying signal. Let's say we're in a conversation and somebody says to you, they say, you know, I was listening to your podcast and I heard that you talked about X, Y, and Z. And it caught me wondering like, what would that be like? I want you going like, ding, ding, ding. That's a potential buying signal this person just gave me, so I have to check it out.
So I always say like, you get a buying signal, or you think could be a buying signal. Your job is to then address it. It usually comes in the form of a question of buying signal. Like, I wonder what that would look like. Or they say, I wonder what you charge for that, right? Like charge is like price.
This is a big one. This is, this is the one that people often drop the ball on and they go like, what? Like. What do, what do clients pay to work with you? For instance, I want you going like, oh, that's a potential buying signal. 'cause they're not asking about everybody else's wallet. They're asking for themselves in some way.
'cause most of us, like our world, revolves around us, right? Like, so if we're asking a question, it's usually for ourselves. So if they go, like, what do, what do clients pay you when they work with you? They're not, again, it's like, oh, that's a potential buying signal. So your job is to answer the question, give a price, or give a range of prices, and then here's how you act on the buying signal.
You follow up with an invitation. So you might say, well, typically when clients work with me, they're somewhere in, you know, my programs tend to range between. $1,500 and they go all the way up to 10,000. Most people find themselves kind of in this mid range of 2,500, 5,000, and then I issue the invitation.
I go, is that something you're looking to do? Or is that something you'd be interested to learn more about or should we have a conversation about what program would be the right fit for you? I'm just asking questions and then as soon, and I'm not asking multiple, I'm only asking one. So I just gave you three examples.
Yeah. I ask the question and then I zip my lips and I wait for you to respond. I wait to see what you say next. That's me checking in about the buying signal. That's me having some awareness. And you know, years ago I used to, 'cause I used to speak live a lot and I had a client one time say to me like, okay, Nikki, you know, you're talking about these buying signals and I get to these events and I forget.
She's like, I need like antennas or something. And I was like, you need antennas. Done. I went, I found a manufacturer in China, and I started ordering these little headbands with these two little balls, these little like, and I was like, here's your buying signal antennas. And I started giving them out every time I would go and speak.
Now I don't do it anymore just because well, frankly, when I speak now, it's not usually local and so it's, you know, it's, it's a lot. Yeah. But people would walk around with these little like dangly ball antennas all the time on their head. 'cause I was like, you gotta be turned on. You gotta be tuned in.
You have to be on the lookout for these buying signals because if you miss them, and you probably are missing them, like the person who gets asked about the price, here's an example, a prime example of a missed one. Somebody says like, what? What do your clients pay you to do that? And you say, well, it depends.
Oh my God.
That's a missed buying signal.
I despise, despise when someone says that and I will. Okay. I'm gonna segue, I'm gonna have a little rant here. Okay. Because
bring it on.
Oh, I, um, I will say I'm very picky with who is in my circle and who is listed as like a referral partner that I will send people to.
I am, I will like, I'm, I'm not. You can think I'm kind of the B word, but if you're someone I refer people to, you're on a very exclusive list because I have to trust that like, you're gonna get take care of this person. Yes. And if I don't trust that your sales process and how you communicate in your sales process immediately, I'm like.
Okay. Like I, you might have some awesome service that you'll deliver, but like, I'm not gonna send someone to go experience that with you. And if someone, when I'm networking, if they say, oh, it depends based on dah, dah, I'm, and my immediate thought is, you don't know what you're selling. You don't know what the value is, you don't know how to describe, and none of those things might.
Could be true, right? You could actually know all those things, but because you missed that communication point with me now, it's like not only will I not be a client with you, but I'm most likely not gonna refer people to you. Yeah. And that might be kind of harsh, but I mean, we're in a very saturated world with certain things we are and like I've gotta be picky and choosy.
So I love that you gave ranges when someone asks about charges. 'cause if you say It depends, I'm immediately tuning everything else you say. Yeah, it's, I'm like, I don't care anymore.
It's a trust breaker. And so, and people always say to me, but, but Nikki, it does depend. I know and I know that it depends.
Okay. Like, I'll honor that. I know that it depends for you. And the answer to the price question is never, and I rarely use the word never in my teaching. It is never, it depends ever. Ever is. It depends. You always give a range. Then you issue kind of that invitation to whatever that next step is. And even if there's a part of you that's like, I couldn't even give a range because of this and this and this.
People tell me this all the time, like they always have a reason why they can't give a range. And I always. Show them how to give a range and then what the question is to follow up. Even if you just say to somebody, you know, it could range anywhere from $10 to a hundred thousand dollars now in order to give you a price that is specific to your application, would you be willing to have a conversation so I can find out a little bit more and put together a proposal that makes sense for you?
That's me at least giving something, like I'm answering the question, I'm not ignoring it. 'cause anytime you dismiss somebody's question, you essentially are saying, I don't respect you. I remember one time I was gonna hire somebody and her service was $5,000, which might not seem like a lot of money, but back when my business was growing, that was a huge amount of money for me to invest in what it was that she was offering.
When I said to her my, my, one of my first questions, 'cause I didn't wanna waste her time, is I said, I have no idea kind of what your services cost. So is that something you'd just go ahead and like, give me a range, gimme some place to start with. And she said, Nikki, we'll get to that later in the conversation.
And I was like, no we won't. 'cause this conversation is over. I,
this is a recent trauma. There's a LinkedIn post coming out tomorrow, y'all. Oh, good. So we need to, uh, redo the windows, uh, in our house. And there's different options that we can explore. You know, like we could just replace the glass pans, we could replace the whole window.
And we're getting, this is the type of thing that you get multiple quotes for, right? Yeah. And this is the type of thing that, like you do just kind of look at price, and then based on that, then you say, okay, like, who did I connect with? Right? Like, it's just one of those. Number first decisions. Yeah, I respect a sales process, but if you can't be flexible with me.
Oh, so someone came to the home and immediately my little, who the heck are you? signals went up because they wanted to sit down first. I'm like. Okay. Everyone else wanted to walk the house and look at the thing that they're solving. Let's sit down. Let me, you want a cup of coffee? sure Let's you know, let's be social.
And then they asked some questions and they start, they went, so we're gonna chat for about 60 to 90 minutes. And I was like, oh, no. I got a five and 3-year-old in this house that are currently trying to jump on you on this couch. Do you think we're gonna sit still for 60 to 90 minutes? And so we're talking through and they did not wanna adjust at all.
I was like, could we at least look at the windows first? And then we can kind of chat like, I understand you guys wanna share your value, but I'm a little bit limited on time. Like, you know, is there, do you have a brochure? Do you have a range of what this might cost? It was just like. And then he said like, that just isn't our policy.
We we're gonna go through this information first. And I was like, okay, well I'm gonna have to just cut this conversation short. Like I, this is not feasible for me. I, I was, it just shocked me and I'm like, you know what? Maybe like you guys are doing so well in business that whatever thousands of dollars I was gonna spend on these windows is just like chump change to you.
Cool. I'm not your ideal customer, but give me an ideal customer that's like, yeah, I'll talk to you for 90 minutes first before I know anything about the price. That's my rant. Thank you for listening to my TedTalk. Yeah, it's
a good one. And anybody who acts like, um, it's, it's kind of like someone who says to you, right?
Like, whether you're dating this person, you wanna be friends with this person, or you wanna buy from this person. If they're like, this is me, take it or leave it. My answer is I'm leaving it. Because if you're not willing to show any adjustment or any flexibility to make the conversation easier for me to participate in, that fits into my schedule.
You know, it's like, no. I remember one time somebody wanted me to watch. A 30 minute video while she sat on Zoom with me about her product and I was like, if you can't tell me about your product in like five minutes or less, and you think I'm gonna sit here and watch a video, you are insane. And, and she was super offended that I was like, no, thank you.
And she was like, what? Like nobody had ever said no to her before. And I was like, you have a really hard road ahead of you if you can't have some flexibility. And what makes sense for this client? If somebody's like, just tell me the thing or just give me the brochure, or just gimme, and you're like, that's not how I work.
That's fine. That's your choice. As long as you understand that you are really limiting your buyer pool by sharing this like, this is me. Take it or leave it. It's my way or the highway. It's like I'm out. Bye.
No, I think also like
I, I think I have a pretty good, like I'm very service oriented. I don't think that's arrogant to say.
I think like I'm very much of like, if you're gonna pay me, like I obviously with boundaries like, but my team and I are here to support and serve you, and so when I'm then the client and I'm looking to buy. I want someone that has that same approach with me. I'm like, I need my cup. I spend so much giving, like, I need you to fill my cup and like give and, and support and serve me back.
Um, but on that comment of like, you know, if you're gonna talk for X amount of time, I love that AI note takers that have little monologue signals. Have you ever seen those like on like, no, but I'm fascinated, tell more. I mean, I don't even pay for my AI note taker, so I use Fathom everybody and it will pop up and it'll say if you've been on a monologue, and you can set what that is.
But usually for me it's a minute and a half. It'll start the, okay, this is how long you've been talking and you get that like warning that you've been talking for this amount of time. And then also throughout the conversation it'll also give you popups for your talk time. So typically I'm somewhere between 33 to.
48%. So I usually never spend the majority of the time talking with someone, whether it's sales, networking, client call, whatever. Now I do have like, that helps me. So like, hey, if I'm at 17% talk time and it's a sales conversation, this person doesn't know enough about me and I haven't engaged enough and this is probably not gonna close.
Like I need to turn it around. And I mean, that's easy to tell, right? If someone's a talker, I don't need that. So tell me that. But it's helpful. 'cause then also if I'm ever like 60%, which is more if I'm training a team member on something, but if I was ever 60% with a prospect, I know like I need to shut up and ask a question where they can brain dump with me.
But yeah, heck, heck to the f, to the no. If someone ever said, watch this 30 minute video, if someone ever said, watch the 30 minute video before you can book a call with me, I'll be like, no thank you. I'll find somebody else for this. Right. It's right. Oh, okay. So I also wanna go back to in the very beginning you said you were shy, and part of our show is getting into the nitty gritty, messy, vulnerable side of business.
Now, being shy was something earlier on in your sales career days who, that's sounds like something that maybe you solved before or not solved. That's not something to solve that you navigated before starting your business. Yeah. Did that ever pop up in ways when you, once you were a business owner, or were there other moments that made you kind of question your sanity.
Yeah. You know, here's maybe a big turning point in my business is I remember I got asked to be a part of, somebody was putting on this live event and they, you know, selected like their group of experts, um, to be a part of their event. And, actually let me back up. It was the year before I got asked to be a part of their event, but.
I remember this person like going, I, I actually asked to come, they asked me to come to the event to do some evaluation of their sales pitch. That's, that's what initially started. So I remember being in the room and I just remember this person like going up on stage and it was very much like it was like their show and they were dancing and they were crying and they were, you know, yelling and they were telling people that they were wrong.
And there was just this like, it just felt like it was like, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. I'm on stage. I'm, this is my moment. I'm here to shine. You all are here to love and adore me. And I remember thinking. This is not for me, this entrepreneurial like thing, because if that is what it takes, that you have to be up on stage and be putting on the show and making everything like kind of about you and dressing up in outfits, costumey stuff, and it, it just felt so like.
I, I, that's not me. I can't, it's giving,
um, if anyone has watched friends, I love friends. Um, it's if, have you watched friends? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. It's giving, when, um, Chandler ends up going to the woman's, like the one woman show by himself, and he's in the front row and she's like, so my period, you know, and then it's just like this rollercoaster of emotion.
Yes. I'm like, I would. I would walk out, I would not sit in the front row to be polite. I would just, I would leave. Yeah. But that's what the energy was giving for me. Just felt,
it felt, it was just, and I just remember thinking like, I don't think I'm cut out for this. Because for me it's always about the work.
It's about the strategy, it's about the thing that I'm teaching and. Like, and maybe this is again, like this could be a self-confidence, but I, like you said, I am very quietly confident. Like I know my stuff works. I'm not ashamed to to say that it works, but if you wanna like dig into me, I feel very shy. If I am put on the spot and it's somehow about me, I get like, I remember one time being at an event and somebody was like really pouring all this love onto me and saying all these really kind things.
But I was standing in the front of the room and there were like 60 people standing there staring at me while she was talking about me, and all I kept thinking is, please let the earth open up a hole and swallow me. Like that was so uncomfortable. Now if she was there talking about my work and about.
Like what it's done for her and her business. Like, fine, but Nikki, as a person, like, no, thank you. So I wanted to quit. I really wanted to quit. 'cause I, I thought I could never put on a live event. I could never be up on a stage like that, dancing, crying, you know? Like it could never be the Nikki show.
That's just not who I am. And so I wanted to quit and then. I got invited to go to somebody else's conference, and I'm gonna say who it was because I would've probably quit my business had it not been for her. But, I went to this conference. She got up on stage, she was vulnerable. But it was about the audience and everything.
It just felt like she was just there to pour into us as attendees. And the event was for us as the attendees. And yes, you know, it was her event, but it wasn't a look at me. It was like, let's focus on you and your business and what you need. So I wanna give a shout out. It's, it was. Natalie Ectol and she for many, many years had a very successful podcast called The Biz Chicks, and her business was Biz Chicks.
And. Now she's gone on and has another successful podcast and is focused on a very specific market. But I just remember thinking like finally, there's somebody who I see doing it the way I wanna do it. It was an example that I needed that honestly kept me going and turned out that was in 2017. I'd had my business since 2013 and the next year Natalie asked me to speak on her stage at her event, and it was like a turning point in my business to be able to be on her stage at an event that felt like this is just for the attendees.
It's not about me the speaker, it's about the people sitting in the room and just pouring everything I could into them. That would make a difference in their business.
Mm-hmm. So what's so interesting there, 'cause I remember in, in the beginning of you kind of telling us your journey and how you became the sales.
You mentioned that you were kind of inundated with like how these men were selling, right? Mm-hmm. But you wanted to find, how do I fit and do it with my twist, do it my way. And however, now it sounds like, okay, when you first started your business, you lost a little bit of that perspective and you were trying to understand what does it mean to be an entrepreneur?
And you had to regain, okay, what does it mean to be an entrepreneur Nikki's way? , That's so interesting. 'Cause you have this quiet confidence, it sounds all put together and lovely. And maybe that's 'cause you've got 12 years of entrepreneurial wisdom under your belt there, but you still had to remind yourself like, yeah, it, it, you could do it your own way.
Yeah, I, I'll say it's still a challenge that I still go through periods of time of like growth, and I think, like, I, I don't think I could do this, right?
Like one of the things I, I do have to remind myself, and I learned this about myself early on actually in my teen years. This, this might sound a little counterproductive to what I just shared. But I ended up making friends with a girl that was on the drill team and for the high school that I went to, and she encouraged me to try out to be on drill team.
And drill team was, at the time, it was like for football season and we had the flags and we spun 'em and we did like, you know, formations and then it went to basketball season and then it became the dance team. The first year I was on drill team, I was an alternate 'cause it was terrible. I didn't know what I was doing.
And they would bring in these choreographers and they would teach us stuff and I would always be the person who got put in the back of the like of the formation or off to the sides. The people who are on the back and in the, on the sides. Those are the ones that usually aren't as good as the people who are in the middle.
Like if you're in the middle and the front, you're the stars, right? Yeah. And I just always remember, like, it took me always a while to get it. I could never get it. Like when the choreographers were there and they were picking out the shining stars. But man, by the time we were ready to perform that routine, , on the field at the halftime show.
Like, I got better and I got moved from an alternate to get my like own spot. And then I got moved more towards the middle and then eventually, became in the center. And I have to remind myself constantly when I'm changing, when I'm doing something new, that I'm always the person that's like the turtle in the hair, like I'm the turtle.
It just takes me a little bit to get it. But when I get it. I've got it and my confidence is there, but I, I have to remind myself every time, 'cause every time I'm going through a a period of, like, everybody's ahead of me. Everybody's doing so much better. Everybody's doing it their way and it doesn't feel right to me.
I have to remind myself, like, Nikki, you'll get it and you'll get your own way. You just have to fight through the like. Uncomfortable piece. I had a teacher who used to say, 'cause you know, it's this idea of changing. She used to always say, the only person who likes change is a wet baby. And I always think like, I'm the wet baby right now.
I'm the wet baby and I need to change. I would argue
not all of my babies loved also the changing process. They loved the result of being changed. Yes. But they, they fought, you know, I'm like wrestling with their legs and everything to change them. Uh, but then, you know, afterwards, then they're, they are very happy.
Uh, but no, that, that's a good reminder. And so I'm curious also on that note, how would you maybe approach someone who feels like they are a hare and you're like, Hmm, you gotta slow down a little bit. Like, do you see that mostly in your male clients, but also, or also in your female clients and like, what's the approach?
Well, I will say there's a certain type of hare client that wouldn't hire me because I do challenge the, the things that they're like, oh, I'm a rockstar at this. Oh my gosh, this is like, everybody wants me, everybody wants to work with me. And I, I'm not here to like de dispute that unless you're numbers- disputed. Mm. And then I am going, I will, as a coach, you have to be paying me money to get this kind of feedback, but I will. Hopefully a very kind and loving way point out to you some places where there could be improvement, where some, some adjustments to what you're doing will make an impact. Now, I'm also not attached to anybody absolutely taking what I give, I always say like, I give it freely. You have to pay for it so freely in the, like, I don't hold anything back. Mm-hmm. I will give it and I'll give it from a place of kindness and love and if you decide to take it and, and run with it, it's yours. That's yours. If you'd say like, thanks.
No, thanks lady. Go kick rocks. I'm okay with that too. And there are certain people who, you know, they, they, I'm just gonna be really candid here. They get put on a list of a do not sell list for me. They can be on my email list and they can engage with me. And I'm happy that there are people in my realm, but I'm not gonna make offers to them because if they're not willing to.
Stretch themselves to grow. Like they don't wanna work with me. 'cause I'm really about like, how do you improve, how do you tweak? And I always say like, for me it's a tweak. It's a tiny little adjustment. I always think about the dimmer switch, right? Like if you have a dimmer switch and it's like you, it's like how can you click one clickup and then when you get there, how can you click one more clickup and one more clickup? But if you just wanna be like, I'm either on or off, like that's my only mode.
On or off, I'm not the coach for you.
Well, I mean, that person would never be that curious chameleon. Mm-hmm. Like, they're never gonna be flexible and actually apply those teachings to their clients there. Now it's, that's so interesting. 'cause I, I have such an appreciation for someone that knows how to challenge and pushback.
And I would argue for anyone listening if you feel like that's not a strong skillset for you, like that it also helps in the sales process, but you need that in whatever service delivery you're doing as well. When you do challenge, it increases the likelihood that someone's gonna look at you as the expert, right?
Oh, yeah. And they're gonna trust what you're saying. Now, I have no qualms. This, this is, this is my, this is my, uh, analogy story for this, because I have no qualms with my previous O-B-G-Y-N. Amazing doctor. Very knowledgeable way too nice. Like I, I, I need a challenger, right? Like, when I hire a personal trainer, I need someone that I, I don't wanna necessarily feel like shit, but like, I need a little drill sergeant bootcamp.
Like, why did you eat a cheeseburger today, Samantha? Like, how are you gonna, you know, like, I need that. And so I remember when I was pregnant with my second kiddo. This is, I'm exhausted because that's, my oldest would be two, two and a half, and I'm like, I'm just like struggling to eat my vegetables.
Like I know I'm gaining way more weight in this pregnancy than my first one. Like I'm just exhausted. And all the cravings are for cheeseburgers, like, and like everything greasy, fat put it in my face. Okay. And she was like, well. If you can try to have, you know, a cup of broccoli here and there, and I need a challenger.
I need someone that's like, Samantha, put it down, eat a damn carrot. You know, like have a, have a glass of water. And so what I, in that buying process for me, if I can tell, okay, you're a lovely person, but you're maybe a little bit too nice and you're not gonna challenge me and say like. Sam, that's a dumb marketing idea.
Or like, okay, cool, that's a cool idea, but you said you wanted to do this. Like, are you switching things again? Miss Shiny object, like, you know, like I need mm-hmm. That challenger. And if it's not there, like I'm just not gonna work with that person, you know?
Yeah. Yeah, I will. I will say with my style is I try to adjust my style to what my clients need.
So some people will want me to say, you know, okay, I would never send this message that you just wrote, and here's why. Whereas another client, if I said that to them, they'd be like, oh my gosh, Nikki's so direct
gonna go cry.
Right? They'd be like, I feel like crying. Whereas somebody else, I would look at their message and I would say, are you open to.
Looking at ways that we could improve this, and if they say no, I feel really confident about it, then I would say, okay. Like, I'm willing to adjust my style to a point, but if you want me to be the person who's like beating you and whipping you, that will never be me. I had Okay.
I don't mean I need that.
Yeah. Yeah. I had a client once describe me as, um, she said, Nikki is the velvet hammer. Like, like, I get it done, but I'll do it from a place of kindness and love. Yeah. And, and so yeah. And there, there are again, with my background of learning NLP and learning how to phrase things, I can say things oftentimes in a way that somebody will be like, okay, I, I appreciate that she said it to me.
I might not like it, but at least she didn't leave me feeling pinched. I don't feel shamed. I don't feel like I need to go hide under the covers for three days, but I needed to hear what it was that she said, and then somebody else will be like, Nikki is just soft and sweet. And. She just wants what's best for me.
And that, that's the truth. Like I, I really do want what's best for my clients and I will adjust my style. And if, and if you come at me harsh and that's what you prefer, I probably won't enjoy working with you. So I'll find ways for us to not work together for very long.
Don't, don't put me on your blacklist, Nikki and I, I.
Vised my phrasing and I, I, maybe I was using the wrong word. 'cause it's not like kindness that is like. Is the turnoff there, it's maybe timidness. Mm-hmm. In the feedback. Yeah. And if someone is timid in that, I'm like, okay, like I need, I'm, I'm very like, give me feedback and then let's go. Right. And so if someone's too timid, I'm like, can we cut to the chase here?
Or like, do you have feedback? Like, I'm not gonna get my feelings hurt. I grew up with two brothers. Yeah.
Yeah. I
spent summers in Brooklyn back before it was. Cool Brooklyn, right? , Like I can take some criticism, like just give it to me and like, let's move forward.
Yeah. Um, so I can, you know, no one come at me with like real hammers and whips please. Yeah. Yeah. I cried a little bit, but, um, okay. I have so appreciated understanding your journey and really understanding the nuance. And the real like wisdom that's behind your NLP stuff. And it's not this fluffy, fancy word stuff, but it's, there's substance there.
And so I always like to leave listeners with some action steps. So if there was one little tidbit of information that you could leave them, whether it's from the insanity you've seen with your clients or insanity in your own business, what would that be?
You know, the thing that I always go back to from a sales perspective is there are people out there right now who would benefit from working with you and you know, they would benefit from working with you, but you're not really sure how to engage.
One of the things I always say is just ask the question. Be willing to ask the question and here's the question, have you ever considered or would you ever consider of what it might look like for us to work together? Or would you be open to us talking about what could be possible if we worked together?
Like be willing to ask people the question because this might be the first time that they're like, oh no, I actually have never considered it. But now, because you ask the question, they might, and I'm such a fan of questions. I think questions make all the difference in your business and learning how to ask the right questions in the right way.
Will be a game changer, but if you are not sure about something, if you're not sure about somebody, if you think there's some possibility that you could help them in some way. Just ask the question and do it from a place of kindness and a place of curiosity and see what they say next. When my clients do this, they often come back and they're like, I just signed up three new clients.
As a matter of fact, the reason I started my business is the woman who really encouraged me. Her name is Lisa say. Lisa took some piece of advice that I gave her about this idea of asking questions. She went to five people. Three of them said yes. One of them said to her. You know, I always wondered why you'd never invited me to work with you, and I just thought maybe you didn't think I was the right fit.
And she was like, that was the best piece of feedback I ever got because, because I asked her, I found out that she was waiting to be asked. She was just waiting to be asked.
Oh, I know. That's why when, when, um, I first started dating my now husband and then I'm just, wait. I'm like, there are times where I'm like, I don't wanna make the move.
Like it's, it's the ball's at his court, you know? And sometimes it's like, okay, the ball might be in your court and it's okay. Right? Mm-hmm. That's an amazing case study. Okay, everyone, we're gonna link all of Nikki's stuff, her three amazing books. We'll link her books, we'll link her all her information. If you wanna learn more about working with the sales Maven and be invited into that conversation with her, I think you, you would learn so much and there's just such great 📍 wisdom there.
Can I offer your audience, can I offer your audience a gift? Is that okay?
Yes. Yes, let's do it.
Okay. Because we talked about questions I wanna offer, you know, and I'm, I've said here how important questions are. I have a training that's called SEAL the Deal, questions that close sales where I really break down, not just.
What are the right questions, but how to form questions that will set you up as the expert in the conversation, and so it normally you charge for it, but I would love to just gift it to your audience because this will make the biggest difference in your sales conversation. So I'm gonna give it to your audience if that's okay.
Wow, thank you. Yes. We will have that link then for people. That's amazing.
The link is easy. It's just your sales maven.com/sanity. So this really is for your audience. I would love to just gift it to you. It's, it's like 11 short videos that really breaks down the questions for you and how to craft your own.
Wow, what amazing resources there. Thank you, Nikki. That's amazing. So catch that sales maven.com/sanity. But we'll also have that in the show notes for everybody
thanks again for joining us, Nikki.
Thank you.