Season 7 Fixes EVERYTHING, White Fox is INSANE and BUFF Peni ft BrandonGrytch

Today we sit down with special guest Brandon Grych and talk season 7 massive changes!

What is Clear Comms Podcast?

A Marvel Rivals Podcast hosted by Coach Mills and CaptainCoach, two creator and educators for Marvel Rivals. We discuss all things Rivals including META, balance and the future of development. We will often debate controversial topics that surround the game and plan to bring on many exciting guests from pros to devs!!!

Coach Mills (00:00.578)
What's up guys and welcome to a brand new ClearComics podcast. Today we are going to be going over season seven and we're joined by a special guest, Brandon Gritch. What's up man? Thank you so much for coming by. And we're going to be going over all the changes, the new hero. There is so much in this episode that we got to talk about. yeah, I'm really excited to talk about all the changes and stuff.

Brandon (00:11.514)
Thanks for having me.

Captain Coach (00:22.818)
Why you have to bring a penny player on the podcast, Coach Mills? You know that's all it's hard to counter, So Brandon, we played against each other quite a few times,

Coach Mills (00:26.125)
Hey! Yeah!

Brandon (00:32.312)
Yeah, quite a few and together a few times.

Captain Coach (00:34.902)
I have, okay, just for the record, I have a lot of respect for your penny gameplay and for most pennies, I definitely do not. I really like how you play penny. The way you take space on offense and like hold points, like where the cart's going to be, I really think you do that better than most pennies I've seen. I wanted to get your insight on just like what your decision-making process is when it comes down to the play style of her, like mainly on offense before we get into all the.

Brandon (00:43.992)
No, understandable, understandable.

Captain Coach (01:03.362)
the season seven changes because I mean, it's rare. This is like the first penny we've had on the podcast, right? Like, yeah, so we've really wanted a penny on. So I just, would love to hear like your insight when it comes to that, cause you're, you've been like eternity, a couple, like multiple seasons, right?

Coach Mills (01:07.83)
Yeah, yeah, it's heavily requested, yeah, to get a Penny player on.

Brandon (01:18.298)
Yeah, eternity for a few seasons now.

Captain Coach (01:20.59)
Cool, so what do you think that is? What's your process?

Brandon (01:24.772)
So for attack, it's really a lot of it's about controlling very necessary space, right? Say the first point of Kunlun, I'm taking that height. It's my height, right? I have my Ness, I have my webs, I have my self-sustain, I can toss mines into your backline, but I want height so your DPS don't have it and my team can walk below for free while everyone's looking up at me because I have height. Majority of the time, whenever it comes to positioning on attack, I'm looking for us to take team fights in

areas that favor my team. So I'm gonna just zone out your team into a less favorable position, a less favorable choke, whatever it is. If I'm not able to get that positioning, then you'll see me even further in your back line, just pulling attention, trying to get some support picks.

Captain Coach (02:09.09)
Yeah, I've noticed you kind of really, you really fight over areas that like maybe not necessarily there's a fight happening now, but it's going to like, feel like you have like a, you're like predictive in that way, whereas like, I think a lot of pennies kind of just like, kind of they're less methodical with it, I guess. Like you're very methodical.

Brandon (02:33.934)
Yeah, I'd say I repeat the same processes for the majority of my games just because it's what has the highest success rate, right? I know if I play in this position, I know I control this area of the map. It usually works out in my favor and it's not something that can be countered a lot of the time because the enemies know you're doing it, right? They know that's what you're up to, but is there anything they can do about it? Can they sacrifice the resources to push me out of that position? If my team has a little bit of frontline pressure, not really.

Captain Coach (02:40.94)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (02:57.272)
Right.

Brandon (03:02.238)
There's not anything you can do except this sucks. We need either give space or we die right now.

Captain Coach (03:07.66)
Yeah, that was kind of the last thing I wanted to ask about too is when it comes to like whether you know you can stop somebody or not, how worth it do you think it is with your minds to put them in the best spots versus the spots they don't expect?

Brandon (03:25.114)
Cool.

Captain Coach (03:26.862)
When do you make that decision? Because that's to me is like, when I go against a penny, I've played against all the best ones, all of them. they'll wreck me game one or game two, maybe game three. But then after that, I kind of like get a feel for how they play. she's so different, she's so unique. then I kind of, then I'm good. And I feel like the best ones are the ones that kind of make little switches to their placements.

Brandon (03:55.297)
Yeah, you really should be changing it up. It's dependent on map. It can be dependent on team composition that you're going against, right? What I do defensively now, and it's mostly because of a Shiyo put me onto, it is a very tank busty play style. Whenever it comes to defense, I'm putting, you know, seven, eight mines in a spot that your tanks are forced to walk through. They'll die to it three times before they go, OK, I'm not walking there anymore. Never mind. But at that point, you're already, you're fine.

You bought yourself enough time. Enemy team spent so much time regrouping. But whenever it comes to the random mines, I use it a lot to where if I just get out of a team fight and there's a web on the ground somewhere and I go, you know what? Nobody's expecting seven mines right there. They just think that's a web that was leftover from a team fight. And it was, but it's in a really great position. So the enemy team's walking back out on a domination map and then suddenly a Hulk and a support blow up. And then, you know, I go back and watch the bot and.

Captain Coach (04:40.706)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (04:40.812)
Right.

Captain Coach (04:51.854)
Thank you.

Coach Mills (04:52.65)
Yeah, we all won the fight, right? Yeah.

Brandon (04:53.966)
Yeah, I go back and watch the VOD and they're all pissed at each other for walking over the mines. Can we not die to random penny mines? Like, dude, I didn't know they were there. Like, yeah.

Coach Mills (04:57.112)
One of the things I wanted to ask specific about Penny before we move on to a lot of the other new stuff is I recently did a skill ceiling tier list with my chat. It heavily debated, but I put Penny as one of the highest skill ceiling characters in the game. Extremely high potential. There's a lot of understanding that you need to have. There's a lot of potential like...

Captain Coach (05:00.241)
Ha

Coach Mills (05:21.464)
skill expression on the character. But at the same time, I think the character does get a lot of value at their skill floor. And that's typically reflected in the win rates at low elo and the win rates on console and the run rates. So what do you feel like is Penny's identity? I know you love the high skill ceiling and the expression, but do you think Penny always has to be this defensive oriented character? Do you think that Penny always has to get value at the skill floor? Would you like to see some changes there? Or are you happy with Penny's placement in the current iteration?

Brandon (05:48.987)
After reading the patch notes, I am because Penny's neutral game isn't bad. You know, it's not horrible. Her old game. Yeah, right? So like, oh no, I get my terrible ult slower, but everyone else does. So I get more neutral play time now before support ults start popping out. Cause when support ults pop out, there's nothing I'm doing for 24 seconds when you double cloak ult. I might as well just be standing there. Like I will go put mine somewhere else. Like what am I gonna do?

Coach Mills (05:51.512)
Right, that's true. That is true. Yeah, yeah, well, maybe as the weakest wolf in the game. One of the weakest, yeah. Yeah, that's actually true.

Captain Coach (05:55.95)
That's a really good point. Yeah, that's a really good point.

Coach Mills (06:14.646)
Right. Right. Right. Less of that is better for Penny. Right. Right. Yeah. Makes sense. Makes sense. But what about that defensive specific play style? Do you think that's integral to Penny's identity or do you think that we could change that? Do you think we could like, could we change parts of that and then maybe compensate with more tools or how do you feel about that?

Captain Coach (06:15.862)
Yeah, go find a secret spot, Like, look at Squirrel hiding his acorn, bro. He's over just doing something else.

Brandon (06:18.616)
Yeah. Yeah, there's, there's, there's, yeah, there's just nothing.

So no, no, think that's just, it, yeah, no.

Captain Coach (06:31.48)
I knew you were gonna say that after... Yeah.

Brandon (06:38.788)
So I think Penny's kit is not very intuitive to new players, to where on a base value, she looks defensive, right? She looks geared for only defense, right? Most of the guides that I make are on attack. Like there will be defensive setup ones, but it's very simple stuff. There's not a lot you could do differently or do better, but I think her skill expression does come from attack and a lot of the time does come from diving. But...

I just don't see her as that defensive of a hero in comparison to the majority of main tanks right now. To where you're only getting value if your entire team's playing around it, but whenever it comes to her win rates and stuff like that, I've talked about it a ton. Her having crazy win rates every season isn't because of, you know, she's Thanos, right? Or it's only the really, really, really good players that play Penny at a high level.

The best players continue playing Penny fully into a match, even if it feels like it's not working for a little bit. People that just play with Penny a little bit swap off pretty quickly to a main tank and just walk main, right? There's times where my teams aren't doing well while I'm running flanks and they're just losing the 5v6. When I say, hey, don't do anything, just stay alive. Just stay alive. Give me 30 seconds. Right, exactly. But it's like, you can't, okay, I have to go mag and I have to walk main with you because you're just.

Coach Mills (07:54.296)
Yeah, that's the hardest call for people to follow. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Captain Coach (07:56.846)
So.

Brandon (08:02.49)
I don't need you to make a play, I need you to stay alive. But whenever it comes to defensive play styles, I think people just need better education on how to get value versus just standing. Like she's a terrible frontline tank in any regard.

Captain Coach (08:14.03)
So you think Penny's win rate is high of just making sure I got what you're saying right because people swap off of her when she's bad, like quicker or more often?

Brandon (08:21.806)
Well, that and there's very little mirror matchups going on. say if you just had, you know, a really great push and you go to Penny on defense, right? You win the game defending on Penny, but you won the game defending on Penny because your push was really good. Well, you probably weren't playing Penny. I think that's majority of the cases, but I think that goes into like the win rates whenever it comes to someone like Widow. Widow's win rate would be a whole lot higher.

if people that actually played the character and enjoyed the character and put in effort on the character. Yeah, like just, but people swapped to Widow to Throw. So her win rate looks trash.

Coach Mills (08:53.41)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (08:55.596)
I know where this is going.

Coach Mills (08:56.663)
Yeah.

Right, right. So would you not change anything about Penny if you had a choice?

Brandon (09:04.73)
there's absolutely things I would change right now. the web breaks on the movement ability are insane, right? There can be three or four different times a match where I should have gotten out of a situation that I didn't because my web said no, because yeah, they just, they just break. There's, there's some consistency to them.

Coach Mills (09:19.138)
They just break, don't, they just, yeah, yeah. Is that like a no-reg that's happening? Like why is it breaking? Do you know?

Captain Coach (09:21.134)
I

Brandon (09:25.914)
it, it, there's a lot of different reasons. There's some that I could show you where it's like, Hey, I'm going from in the air down to a flat surface on the ground. My web didn't go off. have no idea why there's certain map geometry in areas that make sense to where it's like, the character model hitting this would, break it weird. The biggest things that I hate about Penny right now, I hate how she climbs. It's so insanely clunky, right? You cannot reattach to a wall after you jump off of it. Why?

Why is that a thing at all? Staying connected to your web, literally useless. There's nothing I can come up with in the game to use that for, right? There were some bugs that were around that got patched in the most recent one where you could throw a web, you know, 50 meters away and then F key onto the ground and you actually get like 50 meters out of like the stretch to where you can sling back. I, you know, showed people that all the time and said, if you come up with anything for me to use this for.

Coach Mills (10:02.262)
Right, yeah.

Captain Coach (10:21.986)
Wait, you can slingshot her?

Brandon (10:23.578)
Yeah, you used to be able to. You can't anymore.

Captain Coach (10:25.612)
Right, think that was, yeah, what? So they got rid of that?

Brandon (10:29.794)
Yeah, they got rid of the like super jump with it in the recent patch too, to where you can throw out your right click and your F at the same time and you know, get 50 meters of distance. It's really hard to hit, but you could do.

Captain Coach (10:39.534)
I find it interesting, usually when we talk to people who main the character, one of the main things they say is they just wish for bug fixes. I do feel like the web pool is probably, I think really how the good pennies separate themselves from, or great pennies separate themselves from the good ones, because the ones I see, like you mentioned, dive. They go in, they start meleeing you, and they can just, they live forever, then they just, whoop, they just web out. And...

Brandon (11:04.664)
Yeah, yeah, you'll see a bad penny walk around the whole match, right? Yeah.

Coach Mills (11:08.088)
Yeah, rock-a-rondo. Makes sense, right.

Captain Coach (11:08.854)
Yeah, so how do you know when to dive on her? Like when's a good time to dive? it just when they get low or do you like set up plays with like other heroes?

Brandon (11:17.426)
if I see like, say I see cloak bubble and I know she doesn't have that cool down, I can go in and stun and just start punching. Like somebody is going to have to turn around for me, but most of the time that's also a situation I can get out of too, right? I have plenty of health. My movement ability is going to be back up again. If someone does start countering me, I can stun them and just get out. it's not usually a huge deal, but putting pressure on supports is a really big deal. but usually you, it's just way easier to have mines.

Coach Mills (11:27.104)
You

Brandon (11:47.118)
five feet behind them that they didn't know you put there because they were busy healing the tanks.

Captain Coach (11:52.75)
Do you ever try to dive with the idea that you're gonna like push them towards where your minds are? Yeah.

Coach Mills (11:53.41)
It's a-

Brandon (11:56.537)
yeah, I will herd supports like kittens back into my minds. Yeah, absolutely.

Coach Mills (11:57.313)
yeah?

Coach Mills (12:01.016)
The last thing I'll say is we did already kind of wait what's that? No, that's a good segue, but I wanted I did want to talk I wouldn't ask really quickly about Do you want a different old on the character? I think that that is the worst. Of course, it's the worst but like there's a lot of different types of volts we could have like we could we could give her any type of running around I like I mean, it's it just feels like

Captain Coach (12:06.68)
Speaking of kittens!

Brandon (12:07.898)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (12:10.882)
Black, stay at good side.

Coach Mills (12:30.826)
In a game that's so about ults, it's a character that just doesn't have one that meaningfully wins team fights or changes team fights. Yeah, I mean, that's it.

Brandon (12:39.012)
There's really just two actual changes. And unfortunately, I think these would get to making her very close to overpowered, but mine's getting shot down in the air while I'm tossing them out, right? Your Jeff Beam deletes my mines from a field this wide for free unintentionally. He doesn't mean to do it. It's just infinite value. No more squids shooting mines while they're in the air being tossed. What are we doing?

Coach Mills (13:02.476)
Nice, nice, yeah, nice.

Brandon (13:09.443)
Why does that character, why do so many characters diff the most important part of my kit unintentionally?

Coach Mills (13:15.744)
Yeah, that's going to be a very common talking point today as well as we go through the patch. Let's keep going. That's crazy. And what's your second? You said there's another change?

Captain Coach (13:19.278)
I didn't even know that that squids just auto target mines. That's stupid. Yeah.

Brandon (13:22.72)
I shouldn't have told you, shouldn't have said it. Shouldn't have. This is something that Mr. Angry Penny actually mentioned. I think it's, yeah, no, truly. I think it's one of, it's just way more skill expression. Instead of just having to throw mines, what if we got an impact mine instead that didn't have to sit on the ground and then like launch and then.

Coach Mills (13:31.202)
Shout out Mr. Ingrid Penney.

Brandon (13:47.941)
blow up if we could get impact mines in comparison that would do maybe 75 maybe 50 damage because when we're taking one V1s against people you know off angling a lot of the time is one of my favorite things to do is take care of you know hella the more anyone off angling from height because I have more sustain I can jump up there I can stun them they have to go away the only thing is what am I doing with my mines and then also my little pea shooter sucks because I can only hit headshots half the time and they're only 1.5 times headshots so just

Captain Coach (13:49.806)
Mmm.

Brandon (14:17.284)
Give me an impact mine. Like that's it. That explodes on impact when it touches the surface.

Coach Mills (14:20.406)
Do you that? You want that in like a team up or like just part of the kit fully? Just fully, fully the part of the kit.

Brandon (14:23.53)
No, just part of the kit. I mean, you could put it in a team up. That would be cool. Like, hmm.

Captain Coach (14:28.398)
Do you think that wouldn't push her towards a direction where she starts to get too good at too many different things? I think that's been a critique of maybe for me and Mills of some of the newer heroes, Like Elsa with all the shields. Yeah, because I didn't really think of that. If you're go stop a side angle, your mind cool downs are just up. Where do you put them? You can't really use them in a fight. Is that kind what you were saying?

Brandon (14:40.9)
Hmm. They're just so well-rounded. Yeah.

Brandon (14:53.198)
Yeah, I mean, you can, but they're just not. Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Mills (14:55.256)
It's very pre-fight thing that is like... I'm gonna get a pick on a timer randomly, like sometime in the next 30 seconds, you know, but I can't do something right this second.

Captain Coach (14:56.288)
It's not going to do much.

Right.

Brandon (15:05.049)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (15:06.892)
Yeah, that's cool. Like an idea like we could like maybe spend like four mines to use like a big one that does like some kind of crowd control is more or less what you were saying with the impact mine. Yeah. Yeah. I like that.

Brandon (15:40.223)
Yeah, definitely not Kiriko. I mean, I'm just glad to get another support in the game. I'm hoping that, you know, she's able to shake stuff up. I'm really exhausted from just seeing, you know, Gambit's banned. All right, there's not a lot of low-key players. You're usually just seeing Cloak and Viz every game. Whether she turns out to be like a full main support or more of an off-support, I would like her to be an off-support. I think we need more off-supports that are actually viable without, you know, triple support.

Coach Mills (15:41.304)
Definitely not Kiriko, definitely not.

Brandon (16:10.19)
compositions, but I just, I don't know, I'm gonna have to see it in game.

Coach Mills (16:14.424)
I honestly would not be surprised if this character turns out to be one of the most popular characters that they have released. That combination, I just think works. Well, kind of, but it's also like, Kirco has been one of the most popular characters. And for those of you didn't play Overwatch, they have a lot of similarities in their design and in their kit. But this character doesn't require amazing aim to get value out of the primary. In fact, it's the opposite.

Captain Coach (16:26.466)
What, Cat and Girl?

Brandon (16:28.708)
You

Coach Mills (16:43.808)
It's kind of adjacent to Cloak and Dagger where you just don't have to be that mechanically competent to still be able to heal, still be able to damage. Consistent stun, playmaking, teleporting through walls, a flashy ultimate. I just think this character is going to be very, very popular, very picked. And to be honest with you, all of us climb to Eternity this season. Where the hell are the support players, man? Where are they? Because I cannot fucking get two supports in any of my games. So I'm happy that there's a cool support.

Captain Coach (17:05.902)
Mm-mm.

Captain Coach (17:09.549)
Mmm.

Coach Mills (17:12.034)
that looks like it has skill expression that is different that looks like they can be a second support main support like can be played in a two support composition. I'm hyped about that. I think the big elephant in the room is that ultimate giving one person unstoppable and then, you know, giving them heals and then, you know, going in like as this transform ability, right? I like the idea of giving unstoppable to certain characters. I want like a Hulk ult combined with it.

make it so Hulk can't be stopped. There's some cool potential there. But is that gonna be better than a Luna ult or a Cloak ult? Most likely not. it's kind of, I'm kind of up in the air. It depends on how, I think this character needs really strong neutral. I mean, it looks strong. It looks strong to me.

Captain Coach (17:57.6)
Imagine unstoppable paired with like a star Lord ult this ult in your face or you know There's a couple like I think they with that they should maybe like take off some like this is why when they were Remember they just started giving all the alt CC immunity like when Emma was released they give Thor alt CC immunity They're kind of and they gave Hulk partial immunity I wasn't for that change because I knew eventually they'd have a character like this that would

Brandon (18:03.606)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (18:25.578)
apply some effect like that and then they would not be as niche when they did. wait, have they released gameplay of her mills? Like when people are watching this, she'll already be out? Okay, I've not seen it. She's melee though, right? She's melee support or?

Coach Mills (18:33.366)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Coach Mills (18:39.124)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, we could take a break real quick and play it. can play it. Yeah, yeah, no, I can actually I can actually show it here. I can actually hear I'll show the screen just a second while I get this up. Yeah, no worries. No worries.

Captain Coach (18:42.506)
I'm down, I have not seen it. I have not seen it. Yeah.

Brandon (18:47.277)
And

Captain Coach (18:50.123)
I wake up late, man. I got a night schedule.

Brandon (18:51.994)
That and I've seen a lot of DPS players say that she might be a support that they'd actually be willing to pick up, which is kind of big deal, I think. Yeah.

Coach Mills (19:02.72)
Makes sense, makes sense. Here, can y'all see this? This all looks good for you? Yeah, yeah. Is it actually using my camera? Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, okay, cool. I hope it's working. All right, cool, let's get it.

Captain Coach (19:04.057)
yeah, I have not seen this. I'm excited. I'm excited. Let's go.

Brandon (19:06.596)
Yep.

Captain Coach (19:11.832)
is world first. World first reaction.

Captain Coach (19:20.728)
She looks cool too, I really like her aesthetic. The business suit.

Coach Mills (19:28.472)
Yeah, because this is what I was talking about here with the primary. It's not one you have to be precise with aiming in.

Captain Coach (19:33.433)
I thought she was going to be melee, like all melee.

Coach Mills (19:36.034)
Well, yeah, she kind of has some pieces. That's a little stun. So like, so like she's hitting the strange, but it's still doing damage to people around this kind of something that, you know, it's you don't have to be hyper precise with it. is kind of the.

Brandon (19:40.526)
Yeah, and our CC looks really interesting.

Captain Coach (19:53.922)
I mean, it just looks like standard heel bodding. I don't know.

Coach Mills (19:56.236)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's pretty much it, yeah.

Captain Coach (19:59.086)
Yeah, I was hoping for something a bit more different.

Coach Mills (20:03.542)
Has a little bit of melee though. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Has like a little different form. Every hit you hit in the melee form, you gain some heals.

Captain Coach (20:03.758)
This right here. Yeah.

Brandon (20:07.236)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (20:11.596)
She might be like a good anti, yeah, see here it is, anti-dive just, you know.

Coach Mills (20:14.262)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She seems to be able to brawl little bit, a little bit of fighting.

Brandon (20:14.458)
Mm-hmm.

Captain Coach (20:18.862)
Hmm. Interesting.

Coach Mills (20:19.986)
But this is the thing that I don't think you saw.

Captain Coach (20:25.239)
users.

Coach Mills (20:26.796)
Yeah, when you said Star Lord, I thought that that's what you meant. was like, I was like, wait, we saw the trailer, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So she turns into like a giant Fox while, you know, she it's just 900 HP and then, you know, she's very hard to kill. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like the thing that makes her get the Kiriko comparisons is that not only is it like a Fox, you know, girl, but

Captain Coach (20:28.214)
HAHAHAHA

I have not.

okay.

Captain Coach (20:43.766)
That's sick. She's like the Hulk of supports,

Coach Mills (20:54.23)
this, to being able to teleport through walls. this is a, teleports your ally, heal them and give them a shield here. So like she's teleported to Iron Fist, instantly healing him and giving a 200 HP shield that's around them that blocks this Mago. So like, you gotta kinda think about it like, anytime someone needs to be bailed out, she can turn a 1v1 into a 2v1, right? Save a person and protect a teammate at any time is an extremely powerful combo.

Captain Coach (21:02.19)
Captain Coach (21:11.086)
Yeah, that's dope.

Captain Coach (21:22.577)
We kind of talked about this last pod when we were talking about blue type characters. Are you familiar with magic at all, Brandon? Like the magic, okay, well it's like blue would be, like red would be attack, green would be healing or whatever growth, and then blue would be control, or counters, like counter-attack. So something that you could, yeah, like a.

Coach Mills (21:29.88)
Uh, oh yes, yes, yes, No, no, it's a yeah.

Coach Mills (21:42.668)
counters, control... Yeah, it's kind of funny because Penny is kind of blue, like on the color pie, but yeah.

Brandon (21:43.374)
Okay.

Captain Coach (21:49.9)
An ability that's really powerful, not for the amount of damage it does or the amount of shields or whatever, but because of the utility. It's pure utility, an ability that just teleports you across the map. That's insane mobility that just immediately can turn a fight. That's blue through and through, I feel like.

Coach Mills (22:03.446)
Yeah, right, right. Right, yeah.

Brandon (22:10.244)
Yeah, and from her ultimate, people are saying you can give multiple people unstoppable during it. So it's not just reserved for one.

Coach Mills (22:16.618)
Is that true? Let me see. that I because it makes it makes them it makes you target. Let's see. Like right here. It makes it made you confirm this. So because it made you confirm that, but maybe maybe you can apply it multiple times throughout the old. We wouldn't we would have to test that once it actually comes out. But yeah.

Captain Coach (22:18.015)
I

Captain Coach (22:25.856)
I assumed it would be one person, but it-

Brandon (22:27.426)
Okay, and then we didn't.

Captain Coach (22:31.736)
But come to think of it, every support out hits everybody.

Coach Mills (22:37.27)
Yeah, could be. I mean, it seems to create a ton of space. Like that's for sure, is it creates a ton of space. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's get back to here. Stop sharing. All right. Perfect. We're back. All right. So yeah, now you saw the the white fox changes. So yeah, I think that overall, think we needed a support and I'm pretty optimistic. Any other closing thoughts about white fox that you got?

Captain Coach (22:42.134)
Yeah. All right, cool. Cool.

Captain Coach (23:04.709)
I'm a little disappointed based off of my initial impression, but I do really like that teleportability and the unstoppable. So I think she's cool. It's definitely different. I'll definitely give her a try, but to me, she just looks like another heel bot support, not like too excited. Like I was hoping for something completely different, like completely different. Yeah. Yeah. Like.

Coach Mills (23:22.646)
like super like all melee. Like I feel like a long time people have been asking for like an iron fist that could heal like a full on like you're kicking your team, you're diving in, you're doing some.

Captain Coach (23:30.71)
Like plays, yeah. Maybe the play styles, maybe we just haven't seen it yet. Like I think she has enough in that kit to where she could maybe do stuff like that. Like you could maybe start back line and teleport to safety, right? Like anywhere, you know.

Coach Mills (23:44.16)
Right. It's just what I, cause I remember I said that last pod, said that I thought Cloak and Dagger was like this gold standard where it's a character that people can play in lower elo, but it like scales with skill. Like there's definitely a difference between like Celestial and Eternity Cloak and Daggers and pro Cloak and Daggers than like a lower-end Cloak and Dagger. I think this character, it's going to be really easy for new players to pick up because of the primary.

Captain Coach (24:07.534)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Mills (24:07.554)
but it's a character that definitely scales. Like teleporting in is not good if you don't time it right. Like a lot of things matter. That melee form, you're probably gonna get bodied up if you whip it out at the wrong time.

Captain Coach (24:16.757)
no.

Captain Coach (24:20.366)
Is white fox gonna be the next Jeff? I just got like pts- Jeff PTSD when you said that. my god.

Coach Mills (24:22.808)
Yeah, it probably is. And then we don't have a lot to talk about here, but every season needs a Gunnar skin, character, whatever. Black Cat is definitely being added. And yeah, mean, I don't know, probably DPS, maybe a tank, I'm not sure. But yeah, back to back, think maybe not the most popular characters, but still I think gonna be interesting additions. I'm pretty excited for season seven, you know.

Not the biggest banger, you know, they have a lot of like bangers still back in the tank that they haven't released, but... But but yeah, I mean, you yeah.

Captain Coach (25:00.792)
They look cool.

Brandon (25:01.562)
When it comes to their releases, I think they're just kind of trickling in what would be healthy for the game or what they think would be versus, you know, we have Thanos now. Yippee. Like,

Coach Mills (25:11.608)
Right, right. Yeah, yeah. And I don't know if you saw the roadmap where they're going through every saga. They're going through the Avengers and to me it probably makes sense that they line up like they have probably certain releases lined up for those. for the end game they probably have Thanos lined up. For the Doom saga they probably have, you know, Doctor Doom. So it makes sense that like they can't just they would like to have things on a timeline and they don't just want to force like all the greatest hits, you know, back to back to back.

Brandon (25:19.214)
Yeah, yeah, I did see their own map.

Coach Mills (25:41.804)
Then we don't want to get to a situation where for two years it's all the bangers and then there's room for... Yeah. Right. Right, right. And also, I think they have to kind of dig deep to get supports. White Fox is a crazy pool for support. I think... I'm not going to harp on this point too much, but I do think it definitely has inspiration from Overwatch. And I actually think that that's a good thing.

Brandon (25:48.59)
Yeah, then it's characters that existed in five comics in the 70s.

Coach Mills (26:07.852)
Like look at, like we, it obviously happened the other way, know, Overwatch, the new five heroes in Overwatch 2, there's definitely been some inspiration from Rivals as well. You can look at heroes that have parts of their kit that works, design elements that works, and then find your own implementation of them. I think that's good. And I'm excited for the character to, you know, be popular. I think the character will be. But yeah, let's, we're going.

Captain Coach (26:29.238)
I mean, if you can give Widow a heal on a team up, obviously, a lot of the, I think, the most popular characters in the game haven't really even been fully explored yet. I mean, you could look at Iron Man. He has all different types of armor and power-ups in the con. He could be a healer. Iron Man could easily be. If Ultron could be a healer, Iron Man can be a healer. I personally think a character like, mean, I don't want to get too sidetracked, but Ultron could probably use a rework.

Coach Mills (26:33.996)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (26:45.1)
Brave.

Captain Coach (26:56.108)
with how he's kind of portrayed, but I think they could do that with re-imagine a lot of the characters and have two, three versions of him from like whatever different timelines, know, whatever they want to say in the lore.

Coach Mills (27:04.588)
Yeah, they definitely could dig deep, yeah, to have multiple... They do that in lot of fighting games, actually. I know, I'm just thinking like Dragon Ball fighting games where they have like three versions of the same character. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Captain Coach (27:14.958)
Yeah, mean, Smash Bros kind of does that. If you think of Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, Fox Falco, Like slight variations, things like that I think are cool. And it could have similar play styles too. And just kind of like how Deadpool is, but with other heroes.

Coach Mills (27:28.172)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. But then now we're kind of approaching some of the bigger talking points of all the news today. Ult charge nerfs, 20%. It's give or take, it's gonna be a little bit different. Ult charge nerf across the board. It's gonna be more passive ult charge nerfs for supports and more damage based ult charge nerfs for DPS and van goes, but it's pretty much gonna average out to be like 20%. How do y'all feel?

How do you feel Brandon about the ult charge nerfs 20 % across the board? How do you feel about it? Is this a big dub or a... Let's go, let's go.

Brandon (28:04.058)
So, so good. So, I'm so insanely happy that we get more focus on the neutral game because I think it's way more fun of a play style. Like you will see me in my games, hard calming, organizing every team fight based around ultimates every time because I know what they have. I know what we have. Let's go ahead and play this little game of, know, checkers, if you would. Like it's, wouldn't say chess.

Coach Mills (28:27.254)
Yeah, right. Yeah.

Captain Coach (28:29.656)
Do you enjoy that though, at least a little bit? do you, I mean, feel like that's a Marvel rival's identity to an extent, but probably a little too much is maybe, or you don't like that part of the game at all.

Coach Mills (28:38.872)
Or is it just one of those things you just embrace because that's what you need to do?

Brandon (28:39.812)
I mean...

I embrace it because you have to. If you don't IGL and organize those fights, people are just hitting Q whenever and then, you know, like people. Yeah, so it's like, I do it because I have to. I do enjoy a lot of it, but I would rather be calming, hey, Phoenix, take top right. I'm going left side behind. Hold that off angle. I'll get a pick. Like I would rather do that than going, hey, can we get Cloak Hull first? And then after that, we'll follow up with Rocket whenever they do their invest. Like, I'm tired of that.

Captain Coach (28:49.836)
Yeah, I'm the same way.

Captain Coach (29:03.683)
Right.

Captain Coach (29:09.838)
Gotcha.

Coach Mills (29:10.506)
Yeah, right.

Brandon (29:11.172)
tired of that. But also just for Penny in general, like great, awesome. Like just fantastic. I didn't want to hit Q anyways. Yeah. But at the same time.

Coach Mills (29:15.872)
Yeah. Nerfed every ult, so let's go. I remember, I forgot who it was. Was it cringe alarm? I forgot. There was a penny player that this was a while back where they just never, they unbound, they unbound the ultimate. They never used it. They never used it. Like, and like it's definitely, it's definitely kind of troll to do that, but.

Captain Coach (29:17.602)
Yeah.

Brandon (29:28.066)
Yeah, yeah, and a lot of other people stop like unbound there's the same way, but

Coach Mills (29:38.838)
Like they were still winning games. Like there's a lot of characters that wouldn't like if you unbound your cloak and dagger roll, you're not winning a game. Like you're just, you're just, I mean, you shouldn't be.

Brandon (29:38.884)
There, yeah, you can.

Captain Coach (29:40.802)
Thanks.

Brandon (29:44.459)
what? I mean, like what I played recently a lot with Roshan, he made it all the way to eternity on Cloak Only. So no dagger. Yeah. Yeah, it's gross stuff. I'm excited about the old charge nerfs in general. And I've picked up Groot a ton recently as well because he's

Captain Coach (29:46.734)
You

Coach Mills (29:58.252)
No, no dagger?

Captain Coach (29:58.562)
That's cool. I've seen the only damage rocket as well.

Coach Mills (30:01.43)
No dagger. that's just, that's the kind of, that's kind of gross. I'm not gonna lie. That's actually gross.

Captain Coach (30:05.195)
If,

Coach Mills (30:13.56)
I have beef with Groot, we'll talk about that in a little bit. I got beef with the patch that's about Groot, we'll talk about that.

Brandon (30:16.472)
Yeah, but like he needs that. His ult's just so enabling compared to every other Tinkle right now.

Coach Mills (30:24.58)
My problem with Gru in particular though is that he's still gonna build ult faster than all the other tanks and all the other DPS and everyone. I mean, well, yeah, maybe not Hulk, but he's still building ult at an alarmingly faster rate than the others. Cause everyone's hit kind of at the same. Like neutral batter is less, but his ults are still gonna be building faster than the pack.

Captain Coach (30:32.812)
Maybe not Hulk now, we'll get to that too.

Brandon (30:36.181)
Captain Coach (30:41.272)
Yeah.

Brandon (30:46.618)
Well, what I think for this though, in general, is off tanks are going to be getting their ults at the same speed given their playstyle, right? Because you're not rewarded as much for doing damage the entire time. So when I'm flanking on Penny and I'm setting up mines, like, okay.

Coach Mills (31:02.988)
That is true, that is true. You get more value for being passive, like for, yeah, living, living, just being passive, doing whatever you need to do to win the game, which is nice, you know? Right, right, like cap, yeah, cap will be getting more, you you stole a payload, you're getting more passive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense, yeah.

Brandon (31:08.282)
For living and yeah, not just holding left click down main so you can go, I'm building my old charge.

Captain Coach (31:09.858)
That's, yeah.

Coach Mills (31:23.972)
I'm gonna let you say something in a second, Cap, but I will say that I don't think that this ult charge nerf is enough. I'm very happy that it's happened. I think it's in the right direction. I don't even think it's close to enough. I think we needed like 40 % because it is gonna make the game feel a bit better, but I wanted an entirely new world, so to speak, where we actually live in multiple cycles of the neutral. I just don't think that...

Captain Coach (31:49.358)
I thought you were gonna say like twice as much, I thought you were say like 100%. I uh...

Coach Mills (31:52.684)
No, no, because this is 20%, 40%. I think that would have been a reasonable nerf. Like I said, it's good. It's in the right direction. It's hard not to be happy about moving in the right direction. But I don't think that this 20 % offsets all of the things that have increased the tempo of Ultimates overall in the game, which is just like people playing more efficiently, Gambit ults.

Captain Coach (32:15.275)
You're talking about... Right, before Gambit and the Catball.

Coach Mills (32:20.866)
just yeah, cat bolts, like.

Captain Coach (32:22.776)
Well, it's 20 % and now those Gambit Alt recharge boosts the cap are down to 20%. So more or less, they almost kind of like cancel out. But I get what you're saying, yeah.

Coach Mills (32:26.829)
Right.

Coach Mills (32:33.516)
Like 20 % just doesn't feel like a big enough number, but I can understand that they're afraid. Cause like, you make it too much, you might end up in these situations where maybe on attack you got to ult once, you, know, like one time or maybe, you know, maybe twice. It's just like, I can understand why they're kind of scared of nerfing it too much, but I would have preferred if they nerfed it a lot harder, like a lot, lot harder, but.

Captain Coach (32:56.494)
Yeah, so I mean, did, I just recorded my patch notes right before this. I'll be posting that tomorrow. But yeah, in that video, I said I wanted it 50%. So I agree with you. I actually wanted it more. And I felt you were going to say even higher, because I feel like 50 % is a pretty good amount. I mean, just for anyone, it would be. it's not in Nettie's playbook to do a change that drastic, I feel like. But to me,

Coach Mills (33:14.744)
That would be a lot, but yeah.

Captain Coach (33:24.972)
The alts in this game are the least skillful parts of the game for the vast majority of the characters, and that's honestly partly why I play Hulk, because for him it's the most skillful part, so to me that's a lot more fun. Hulk, Mag, great alts.

Coach Mills (33:34.774)
I agree.

One of the few, one of the few skilled like high skill ults. Yeah. Yeah. There's, not that many. I mean, even high skill characters like Sai have just a, you know, a nonsense, you know, don't have to do anything all right. Like, yeah, like.

Captain Coach (33:49.794)
Yeah, they're all pretty much press a button, collect, it's like $200 for pass and go. What are we playing? Monopoly? Like this is a hero shooter. Like let's use some skill in our abilities, right? But I think it's towards the right direction, giving us more time as Brandon said, to make those types of plays, those setups. I mean, a lot of times you'll have like half a skirmish and then like one person will die and you have to wait. then like the alt, like people already have their alts. You get them in like 40 seconds.

Brandon (34:15.642)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (34:16.45)
So it's gonna probably, you probably have like a minute now to really, you know, fight your way in, collect an advantage in the neutral, or if you're really efficient and playing very aggressively, be able to get those ults first and not just have a support get it two seconds later because they get their ults so fast too and save it. You're right, because like, I feel like when you're pressuring, part of the trade off is they take more damage than they get their support ults quicker. And that's always kind of like the push pull of hero shooters, right? Right.

Coach Mills (34:40.94)
Yeah, the risk, right? You go really hard, you don't get a kill, they get Olds first, right? But that's not gonna happen as much, yeah.

Captain Coach (34:44.674)
So making the margin of that area bigger where you have an advantage, I think, is like an absolute W for the game. I think the games are going to feel different, but not so much that it's going to really change things too much for any particular hero. I do think there are, like Hulk, for instance, benefits way more from this change. And I think stall tanks in general benefit way more. I think some DPS characters, like they said in the devlog, I feel like Penny benefits from this.

Coach Mills (34:51.992)
Yeah, I agree. 100%. Yeah.

Coach Mills (35:04.159)
Hey, yeah

Captain Coach (35:13.998)
Like you said.

Brandon (35:14.008)
Yeah, no, I think objective play style is going to be rewarded a whole lot more in general than just farming for ults and then everyone hit Q. Did it work out? No? Okay, you just go try that again, right?

Coach Mills (35:14.84)
a lot. Yeah.

Coach Mills (35:25.42)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (35:25.902)
How do you think about the support passive alt rate going down from 12 to whatever eight? Like it's like a 33 % rate.

Brandon (35:33.476)
mean, that's huge. That was way bigger than I expected it to be. Yeah, it really, you have to be participating, but I think that just takes triple support to a whole different world, right, of they're gonna be, no, they're gonna be building so slow. If somebody runs...

Coach Mills (35:35.734)
Yeah, yeah, they gotta they gotta earn it. They gotta earn it every every every old they have to earn it. Yeah

Coach Mills (35:48.556)
Like, like good, like better. Well, that's the thing is like, especially badly built triple supports, like the ones that don't have Mantis or Adam or Loki or if you can't get your old by dealing damage, you're never gonna get your old. Like you play, you play Invis Rocket Luna or something like that, or Invis Rocket Cloak. You're gonna be sitting at 40 % and Hulk is gonna have his old, it's gonna be terrible. It's gonna be, I mean, I'd say terrible, but that's great.

Captain Coach (35:57.229)
Yeah.

Brandon (36:04.601)
Yeah.

Brandon (36:09.432)
Yeah, dude.

Yeah, absolutely.

Captain Coach (36:17.186)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (36:17.74)
Like that's great, because those comps are, I just feel like they're kind of jokes. They're literally, their whole design is do nothing. Like we're gonna do nothing and then win with our cues.

Brandon (36:21.848)
They're not fun to play. They're not fun to be on either side of.

Captain Coach (36:27.49)
Well, I yeah, I mean, think at the end of the day, supports still do have a decent amount of offensive pressure. And I think it will push them more towards a play style that exists they just don't really tap into. And I'm not saying, I'm not, this is not me saying support players are bad. I'm saying support players play to the value of their hero, which is unfortunate. I mean, I could say it if you want.

Coach Mills (36:50.008)
How dare you. How dare you. Just random shade.

Brandon (36:51.535)
wait, I'll say it. What are we doing?

Captain Coach (36:56.782)
That's not the point I'm trying to make. could throw some, you know, throw some shade at support. Yeah, just like you're talking about like, I love Hulk fuck supports and I really hope that, you know, just do that all podcasts. But no, I mean, I lost my train of thought. Well, I've actual fuck supports. They fucked me up, I was just so mad at them. I can't remember what I was going to say.

Coach Mills (37:03.862)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (37:12.98)
Yeah, Fucking support man's always always making that noise. You're talking about talking about opening up a style of play that has been not been accessed by supports.

Captain Coach (37:24.524)
Right, okay, yeah, yeah, so supports can do a lot of damage. They just can't do it all the time because they're generally relegated to the thing that they're best at, which is why you pick them, which is just healing. Like that's why healbotting is too good, and I think this is going to now make you think a little bit, you know? But it probably is gonna make you want to healbot more, to be honest, because now you'll have to. Like you'll have to now.

Coach Mills (37:42.892)
Right. Yeah.

Coach Mills (37:48.444)
Yeah, if it's there, but only if it's there. Like there are times when there's not heel bodying to have, you know, like when your dive tanks are in, there's nothing to heel at that moment or, know, you're, yeah.

Captain Coach (37:58.55)
Right, so it's like, you're saying it encourages them to be proactive and go get those heels. Yeah.

Coach Mills (38:02.68)
Be proactive, do things during the moments where there's not a big body to heal up. Like, big hole comes back in 1 HP, you heal him up, because that's the best ult charge you're gonna get. But then after that, you need to find ways to get value, get ult charge somewhere. You need to find it. You can't just hide and get it, right? You have to go and seek it, right?

Captain Coach (38:07.501)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (38:13.303)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (38:20.49)
It changes the game for sure. It definitely, I think, may increase the skill gap between supports, which terrifies me a little bit. A little bit. Don't you think the differentiation between good and bad supports, because they're harder to play, would be greater? Or do you think it'd be less because the power, the top levels wouldn't be tapped into as much? You get what I'm saying? The difference is lower.

Coach Mills (38:30.065)
Yeah, yeah, I think it does. It terrifies you.

Brandon (38:45.85)
I think it's gonna be a really good thing. I think we're gonna see supports having to play the neutral game way more often, make way more aggressive decisions and get rewarded for those decisions to where, I help on Cloak every now and then. I can win some like mid-Celestial games and be like, like this wasn't bad at all. I don't know what people are talking about, but...

Captain Coach (39:08.17)
I started playing cloak, sorry to interrupt you. I started playing cloak and dagger. She's fun.

Coach Mills (39:12.085)
I feel like I need to pick up cloak and dagger too. the characters, if you're filling a support, play fucking cloak and dagger. That character is great. Like it's such a good character.

Brandon (39:13.882)
Yeah, you can.

Captain Coach (39:18.702)
Yeah, she you guys are talking about how great she was last podcast. I gave her a tram like damn She is pretty great. Like this is I'm having fun

Brandon (39:19.16)
Yeah.

Brandon (39:23.576)
Yeah, no, I was a rocket only support Phil and then I just picked up Cloak and I'm like, yeah, this is like I can kill stuff now. My terror capes pretty dope. Like, I hit a 4K on Cloak. I'm not doing that on rocket. What are we? Cool. All right.

Coach Mills (39:24.28)
Yes, yeah.

Captain Coach (39:32.909)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (39:36.824)
Dude, I dropped 50k healing on Cloak the other day. It felt so good. It felt so good.

Coach Mills (39:41.016)
And the reason we're just talking about Cloak and we're not saying Cloak and Dagger is because 90 % of the reason we play the character is Cloak, okay? The character is 90 % Cloak, 10 % Dagger, okay? So, Cloak wins. Cloak is the majority. But yeah, no, I agree with what you're saying, Brennan, 100%. I think just increases the skill for support, increases the skill overall, I think. Like really, like more neutral, more decisions, more meaningful decisions.

Captain Coach (39:46.115)
Lazy?

Captain Coach (39:51.918)
Bye.

Coach Mills (40:08.012)
Instead of like smaller less important ones or like bigger less important or like you have one decision Which is when you press Q. I like that. No one really likes that but the other thing I want to talk about is three bands How do you feel Brandon about three bands both teams get three bands?

Brandon (40:25.466)
great. That's, that's, mean, they obviously have trouble balancing. Like they do. They know, they know they have an issue to where when you have two double bands, you know, multiple games in a row, you're like, okay, there's still some really OP stuff that is really tough to counter with current meta and current state of other characters where it gets tough. I think three is good. So now I will just have my one permaban and my two nice to haves. And that's it. Like I'm set.

Coach Mills (40:31.722)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (40:51.99)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like...

Captain Coach (40:52.92)
Dude, I love Brandon's reactions. Like he said great, like he's like, didn't even great. Can you imagine that in the cold open mills where you're have to have like the music build up and crash and then just tick tock tick great. It's flicking hilarious.

Coach Mills (40:59.25)
Yeah. yeah, yeah, of course.

Coach Mills (41:07.704)
I think both teams defer- we need a like university degree and spread the word This is this is everyone needs to know this the first ban on both teams is your freebie Do not be banning Elsa Gambit, Groot, you- you- you- you ban something That is very unlikely to be double banned Okay, we do not want double bans on the first one because then you get- you back yourself into a corner, right? Both teams ban Gambit with the first ban. Fuck

Brandon (41:26.234)
comp-specific. I can see that. Yeah.

Coach Mills (41:38.04)
Both then it was like, OK, so, you know, we don't want to see that. I want I want to see Spider-Man bands. I want to see random Wolf bands. I want to see random group. Oh, not group. Like any off-meta, whatever. The first one is just random, right? We could do the meta bands in the last two. OK, we could do the last two.

Captain Coach (41:48.75)
But do you want to leave it up to chance? What if, what if, well, you get that one guy who forces you into the 20 % chance that, and then you got no fallback anymore. You got no safety valve. So that's why people do it first. Cause the characters are so broken, man.

Coach Mills (41:55.96)
Yeah, and then they're fuck it by the way what okay?

I I am heat very heated about today and a lot of the changes Everything we've talked about so far is good. I think three bands is good Why is there still percentage? Can't can't we just do majority wins when it comes down to like? Like why is it not majority wins? It's I get fucked by the 20 percenter every time like I'm serious

Brandon (42:16.472)
Yeah, I don't know why that's ever been a thing. No idea.

Captain Coach (42:17.262)
Mm-hmm.

Captain Coach (42:22.542)
Brandon (42:23.322)
Team-based game, team-based decision. Like, don't understand it. Yeah.

Captain Coach (42:26.062)
Ugh.

Coach Mills (42:28.475)
Exactly and it's even worse when someone's like someone bands someone's pick and they're like, oh my bad my bad I didn't mean to and then everyone else just selects a different character because they don't want that character But of course the one guy that that band, know It's just it's a fucking wreck and there's I still kind of feel like they should have just done no double bands to in addition to three bands Maybe that would have been too much if it's just like six bands in isolation every game That is a lot of bands if there's no doubles

Captain Coach (42:28.907)
absurd

Coach Mills (42:55.256)
but I would have proudly preferred that, this is still, once again, I can't be mad about a step in the right direction. I just, it's a step in the right direction. Like it's good.

Captain Coach (43:01.774)
Three bands is, or adding more bands is the best change they could have possibly made to this game.

Coach Mills (43:08.044)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. I agree.

Brandon (43:08.538)
Well, and I think just adding the third band alone, you see the first two and you go, hey, there's a really good chance that they're running this. If those are their two bands here, how about we just throw in this for the third one? So you get more game knowledge expression in the band phase too. So that's just another opportunity to edge the competition out by thinking critically, maybe a little bit.

Coach Mills (43:21.977)
more info. I like that. That's actually cool.

Captain Coach (43:28.31)
Yeah, that's a good point.

Captain Coach (43:33.196)
Yeah, like the ban phase in League, for instance, is actually a pretty important part, especially in the pro play. It's super interesting. I would like to see the ranked experience more mimic that as the player base gets better. more bans. I was hoping for four, personally. But again, as Mils said, you've got to be realistic with the changes that we're asking for, I guess, because I think they're trying to cater to this game to a certain player base. So mean, this is something we've talked about a lot lately.

that Marvel Rivals is kind of catered primarily, I think, to like a casual base. Would you agree with that or not so much? Because it seems like they're moving away from that maybe a little bit.

Coach Mills (44:13.792)
Yeah, this is pretty competitive change. are... These are, actually.

Brandon (44:15.355)
I...

Captain Coach (44:15.415)
Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

Brandon (44:20.518)
Yes, but at the same time, I talk to Guru a lot about stuff and he's as tapped into the scene as you could possibly be. And I think what they're doing right now, these are amazing changes. I'm really happy about the majority of it. But whenever it comes to being competitive in general, I don't think that's their main goal. We're seeing a lot of different orgs pull in and out of the scene because it's just not working out.

Coach Mills (44:28.268)
The goat.

Captain Coach (44:32.429)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Mills (44:44.748)
Right, yeah.

Brandon (44:48.186)
viewership isn't super, super there. I think the like ult charge changes will make it a little bit more entertaining to watch in general instead of crazy ult fights, every single team fight. But with how it's going right now, I think it's catered more to casuals.

Captain Coach (44:57.133)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (45:04.698)
Isn't it funny when the alt phase goes down when you're watching competitive? That's when you want to get up and go get a drink. It's like, OK, I got about 20 seconds. I'm going to to the bathroom real quick and catch the neutral. I think at the competitive, this is so good for the competitive scene. I think you're going to see that the good players and good teams really start to differentiate themselves. And I think you're going to bring more of that element of skill back to the game. And then I think.

Brandon (45:10.36)
Yeah, because it's just silent now. It's just, it's silent.

Yeah. Right.

Captain Coach (45:31.374)
The cool part about this is, kind of why I brought it up, is like if this is viewed as something that increases the viewer number of, viewer numbers of like the games and the competitive and all the, they have like a YouTube channel where they're just like casting games constantly. It only gets like 500,000 viewers, know? So if they see like a uptick in that because it's more fun to watch, they're probably gonna make more changes like this. They're gonna go further in this direction. As long as it doesn't hurt those like casual numbers too much, which is why I love seeing that little, sorry, meant.

Coach Mills (45:53.9)
Yup.

Captain Coach (46:01.294)
need to keep rambling about the little thing where you can take pictures. I actually like that.

Coach Mills (46:02.613)
No. Yeah, no, I like that. Like, and I've been, I've been kind of hearing everyone's take about the game being like the casual versus competitive thing and the pro scene and stuff like that. In my opinion, cause I've watched a lot of e-sports come and go and games try to establish their e-sports, you know, successfully, unsuccessfully. I really think the only thing that matters is that your game lives. Like if your game is alive five years down the line, the chances of your e-sports doing well is, is, is astronomical because

Like most games just don't survive that long. And like, if you keep the people interested, eventually they crave higher level experiences. You know, you, the casual player eventually turns into the competitive player every time you just need to give them long enough to, you, the game has to stay relevant. The game can't die. And they're doing that. Like, I think five years from now, we're going to be looking at a, a game that has more competitive balance, which is like, this is already a step showing that that's something they're down for now.

I can imagine five years from now, we take it up to 10. We have four bands, no double bands, or we have pro bands in ranked, and then we have far less ultimate percentage charge. These changes long-term can happen. And the audience and the player base, I think it's kind of funny how pretty much we've had guests after guests as a guest on the pod, and pretty much everyone's kind of come to the conclusion that the game's super casual.

You know, we're getting 30 40k viewers every single fucking week on this pod. Just talking about balance, talking about the game like like if casual people are not watching a podcast thinking about how can we, you know, balance the game properly or like begging for more bands and you know, yeah, it's like that's what I'm saying is I think the game is not as it's not as casual as people say it is, even though it is really casual, but it's

Captain Coach (47:42.19)
And we're still young Coach Mills, we got a ways to go.

Coach Mills (47:53.75)
the audience is slowly becoming more primed for it to becoming less casual. And I think the game will become less casual over time. And for the people that stick around, as long as you can handle it until then, I think the game will morph over time into what people want. mean, NetEase has always kind of just done what people want. This is what people want and they've done that thing. So that's kind of how I, that's how I feel about it.

Captain Coach (48:13.55)
Yeah, I think that's interesting that you say like the longer, I mean, obviously if a game lasts longer, if there was an e-sports, I mean, maybe not always, I guess. I mean, now that I think about it, I'm just thinking in terms of like, okay, how do you make a game live longer? like the people who actually spend money on it would be probably where I start, right? Like the people who buy skins and to me that's just like the most amount of players, right? Like, cause it's a free to play game.

So is like how much money is there really in like having like high rank competitive eSports? if it, it seems.

Coach Mills (48:50.775)
It kind of depends. Yeah, it's hard. It depends on the viewership and, you know, long term implications. And it being Marvel is also an interesting thing because they have a lot of potential backing and support and advertisements and like, you know, they could they could put Marvel advertisements in the game like they could do. I could do so much to monetize this game and the sport, the sport as well.

Captain Coach (49:10.478)
I think the changes are a result of mostly community backlash from complaining about the game. I don't know. I still think there's other factors though about your comment on eSports. I don't think your scene is guaranteed to thrive just because your game lives a long time.

Coach Mills (49:34.101)
Well and money, mean the company has to support it but they put a million dollars in the prize pool for Ignite I think like... yeah.

Captain Coach (49:40.28)
Like does that attract new people? That's what they want is for the eSport to attract new people to the game.

Brandon (49:43.343)
Well, right. So I think a lot of the e-sports scene right now, in general, across the gaming industry, is more so doing poorly because the e-sports creators and the teams aren't doing anything to actually garner much viewership other than exist, play the game. If they were to shake something up and have louder personalities, teams that you recognize and you root for and you get behind,

Captain Coach (50:09.528)
Yeah.

Brandon (50:09.784)
Right? Say we have the Muhammad Ali of boxing come into eSports, be a showman, be loud, be entertaining, right? Same if you did that across eSports in general, people would watch more because they're having more fun. And if people just watch more, it's going to get supported more. There's more advertisers in it now, you know?

Captain Coach (50:27.662)
And this, that's such a great point, because this is the point I wanted to get to. So how do you get to that point where your esports is worth watching? That you have to have people who are better, that are just better and that they're fun to watch, right? And you can't have that in a game where the ults are down every 40 seconds. So I mean, that's a beautiful point, because I agree with what you said to an extent, Mills. I do agree with that. The longer a game lives, the better chance maybe.

But really the reason a game's going to live that long is because you're attracting a hardcore player base. Because I really do think that's, those are the types of people who kind of like dictate what's going on in the community. Like when you look at like tournaments, people like watching good players at the end of the day.

Coach Mills (51:13.015)
I think I just think that like this kind of proves that like hardcore hardcore players or people that want to take rivals more seriously do have a voice with the devs like they do have some sway with the devs like like they do care they do care because like a truly casual player is not complaining about triple support like that's not affecting their games if you're just locking in quick play well they're echoing the opinions of other people they're not saying their own opinion like like that's not that's it like

Captain Coach (51:23.874)
more knowledgeable about the game.

Captain Coach (51:30.486)
Right. Well, maybe they are, but...

Captain Coach (51:40.93)
I would love to do a pod where we get on only casual people because you mentioned our viewer numbers. It would be interesting to get a different perspective and show people maybe this is also a big portion of the player base that maybe you don't interact with every day.

Coach Mills (51:45.171)
I would love that, yeah. Yeah.

Coach Mills (51:55.478)
Yeah, I want to find someone that never plays never played calm ever and they come on the pod. That'd be cool. Or maybe once. Yeah, that'd be cool. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, people and I can understand people having like counterpoints and maybe disagreeing with me. But I think I kind of thought about it where everyone just kind of come to the conclusion that this game is casual and it will always be casual. And I just don't really agree. Like, I don't think that that needs to be always true.

Captain Coach (51:58.734)
I might ask my buddy. I have a buddy I have in mind. I'll... yeah.

Coach Mills (52:22.359)
And I think that like everyone is kind of universally cheering the ult charge nerf and the three bans and those are competitive changes. Those are very competitive changes. Those are not casual changes. Banning characters is not a casual thing to do. Not letting me pick Spider-Man in every lobby I'm in is not a casual thing. Like that's not casual. That's competitive and people like it and people want it. like people say that they want the game to stay casual. I think that what they really mean is they don't want, you know, like

Captain Coach (52:42.001)
huh.

Captain Coach (52:50.605)
I mean, that's.

Coach Mills (52:52.267)
They just don't want to be left out of the conversation. They don't want high elo players to tell them how the game should be perfectly balanced for their elo. They don't want to be suffering against a thing and a squirrel girl and for a high elo player to say, you don't matter. They don't want that, but that doesn't necessarily equate to.

Brandon (53:10.796)
It's I think a lot of how that's expressed is just received negatively because it's expressed negatively. If I sit down with someone and go, hey, man, you you're you're in gold right now because you don't have fundamental understandings of the game to where if you don't have those fundamental understandings, you can't really form much of an opinion just based on what you're seeing because you haven't played an organized team fights. You haven't played an organized team play. You don't know what's going on at the highest level. You don't know what's

going on in your lobbies because no one there does. That's okay. They're having fun. They're enjoying themselves, but you can't expect changes to be made to account for people that don't know what's going on and don't know what they're doing to not affect people on the other end.

Captain Coach (53:54.252)
I mean, in gold players, in gold players defense, I...

Coach Mills (53:57.526)
No, no, I, I, I do agree with you, Brent, 100%. The delivery does matter, like a lot.

Captain Coach (54:01.39)
There are some people who are gold by choice. I used to have a buddy who played League of Legends and he was one of the best players Yeah

Brandon (54:01.85)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (54:04.887)
You

Brandon (54:05.292)
Again, have your fun, enjoy it. Don't mold like all of us and tweak out every single day because Elsa's taking six off the map again, whatever.

Coach Mills (54:10.791)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, yeah, and yeah, and I'm gonna say this straight up. Anyone who watches our podcast, you are automatically a competitive player. I'm sorry, but you are, like, that's just it. Like, you're bought in. You're already 54 minutes in. We're not even halfway done. You're already bought into the competitive mindset.

Brandon (54:21.912)
Yeah, that's.

Captain Coach (54:28.686)
I would be curious, I would be curious, leave a comment if there are anyone watching this podcast who has never played a ranked game of Marvel Rivals. Definitely leave a comment, because I would be curious to see actually.

Coach Mills (54:41.205)
Yeah, yeah, actually or or maybe if you only play since like season zero one time or like a little you know a little little dash in and then you're just like out of it Yeah, hit subscribe. We keep forgetting to do that, but I think only like five percent of you are subscribed. So please subscribe it up Yes, yes. Yes. before we forget. but okay. So yeah, so the three bands now That we will talk about the balance changes in a second and i'm very

Captain Coach (54:47.438)
Also don't forget to hit that like button, hit that subscribe button.

Captain Coach (54:55.87)
yeah, let's get up to 10k please. You know?

Coach Mills (55:09.279)
negative about a lot of the balance changes. But before we get to that, let's talk about the win rate for roles. They did show like the comp win rates to kind of show, hey, triple support is actually not winning that much. How do you feel about that, Brandon? Let me see if I could pull them up actually. It was in the dev vision. Let me go pull it up.

Captain Coach (55:20.622)
Do you think we could pull those up again? I can give you the link to the spot in the video. Yeah.

Actually, you know what? I might have a screenshot. I could probably just send it to you. Yeah, I got it right here.

Coach Mills (55:34.699)
That'd be even better, yeah, if you have a screenshot of that.

Brandon (55:37.998)
Sorry, I'm just, I wish I was my dog right now. He looks like he's in bliss. That's just, there he goes.

Coach Mills (55:42.881)
Hahaha!

Captain Coach (55:44.035)
yeah?

All right, just sent it to you. Or did it go through? It's loading. There you go.

Coach Mills (55:48.023)
You said it?

Okay, cool, cool. Let me share my screen and let me take a look.

Coach Mills (56:00.321)
Chair. Okay. Is that showing good? All right. So, so yeah, so this is going to be, we look at the usage rate, which is like vast majority of all ranks are using two to two. So let's do an above above are using it at 70%. so that's like even another, like 11 % in celestial and above are doing two to two and two to two is winning more. So this is kind of what they said. They kind of showed this off and said, Hey, you know,

2 to 2 still the most dominant composition, even though everyone hates triple support. We're still going to nerf triple support. We're still going to get rid of triple support or we're going to weaken it. But that's not what is winning. So I think like a lot of times when they do stuff like this, they're trying to change people's perception about it. Like that's what they're trying to say is like your perception is wrong based on the data. And here is the here's the data to prove, you know, triple support is actually not as broken as you think. What do you what do you think about that, Brendan? How do you feel about?

This data and triple support. What do you thoughts on it?

Brandon (57:00.516)
So the top one, the all ranks, is just terrible data. I do not care. That doesn't... Like, even for Celestial and above, I would love to just see it for Eternity and above because you can be playing in Celestial and you have an 0-6 DPS that was on Magic the whole time and then they swap Jeff out of nowhere when you're solo tanking already and you...

Coach Mills (57:05.399)
It doesn't matter. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah.

Captain Coach (57:20.663)
Yeah.

I do feel like the game changes a pretty good amount above roughly eternity, I think is when you really start to see a jump.

Coach Mills (57:26.219)
Right. Right.

Brandon (57:27.352)
Yeah, yeah. But again, the data is just not like triple support. Again, they mentioned in the dev vision specifically Loki Mantis Gambit, right? I have been in top 100 lobbies where it's Loki Mantis Gambit Star-Lord Mag-Emma. What do you do other than match? Nothing. There's really not a lot. If you were...

Captain Coach (57:49.614)
Yeah, you kind of just lose

Coach Mills (57:51.628)
Yeah. I mean, if you, I mean, if you let Loki Gambit manage this through the band phase, do you deserve to win that game? I don't really think so.

Brandon (57:57.849)
No, no, no, you really don't. No, I see a gambit hover on my team and I go, I'm praying the enemy team's smarter than we are right now. And they usually are, so it's all right.

Captain Coach (57:58.804)
Thanks for a minute

Coach Mills (58:07.415)
Yeah, some of this stuff, like some of the data here just doesn't really feel like it's accurate. I know that this is just my opinion, but like three Vanguard, one duel is two strategists. Like in Celestial and Above, it has a 2.7 % usage rate and a less than 50 % win rate. You know, I played that composition a lot and won a lot. Now you can't play that with every combination of three Vanguard's, but like,

Captain Coach (58:08.259)
Mm.

Coach Mills (58:36.683)
Tank pool is almost like a DP and like you can throw in a Thor there and he plays like a like these these there's a lot of these off tanks that are kind like half DPS half tank hybrids in a lot of ways and they they they they can occupy or create like a semblance of 2-2-2 But you're not making it with 2-2-2, know You have you have a mag you have a Thor and you have a tank pool and that's like just as good if you have a good tank pool and a cool Thor player better that than swapping to a

Brandon (58:37.176)
Yeah, we're thankful. Yup.

Coach Mills (59:04.513)
DPS that you have no idea how to play. Like you're gonna win the games way more.

Captain Coach (59:07.726)
Yeah, I'm a little surprised by how low the use rate is for that comp in particular, but I guess I'm a little biased because I play tank and I get more of them, but I'm a little surprised by, I mean, how much they're downplaying how good three strategists is. Three strategists with two vanguards, almost, it's like second highest win rate, or sorry, third highest, but like, yeah, the other one's 2%, so I don't really count that, but like.

Coach Mills (59:31.159)
If I want to see the same data but zero Comps that have rocket in it. I've kind of preached about this a lot. There are some exceptions but rocket is is It's antithetical to a triple support comp because rocket does not get ult charged through dealing damage Most triple support comps are terribly built and they're losing with them

Captain Coach (59:51.0)
So that's one of the things I don't think they account for in the win rates is yeah, there's not enough nuance like pretty much. Yeah, like you want to pick Mantis and triple healer, right? But the other one is I do think triple support is a pretty common, I'm pretty sure it is like the counter to either your team taking too much damage and dying too much or your team or in your supports just struggling with dive too much, just losing that skill check. So it is a strategy.

Coach Mills (01:00:18.079)
It's kind of a band-aids fix, know.

Captain Coach (01:00:18.956)
that is used when you are losing. So naturally when you pick it, when their players are better, I think you are going to, your win rate's actually just gonna be lower because you're picking it because you're worse. And the other thing I will say about that too is, no, I guess we covered it, yeah, because they're just playing the wrong heroes during it.

Coach Mills (01:00:43.563)
Yeah. Cause I'm looking at, wait, is that one Vanguard, two Vanguard? Cause I'm looking at, I'm looking at the all ranks and it says that one Vanguard, three duelists. No, yeah. One Vanguard, two duelists, three strategists wins more. No, no, no, it's less than two Vanguard. Nevermind, nevermind. You're going?

Captain Coach (01:01:01.779)
I remember what I wanted to say. It was because I think healers are generally played less. So I typically think when you have three strategists, it is because of some other reason other than you actually got three strategists on your team. It's usually because of another reason, I feel like. Not always, but.

Brandon (01:01:15.79)
Right. And, yeah, and again, with a lot of how this data is aggregated, right, if you end up starting on 2-2-2, but you swap to triple support because you had to match their triple support and now it's, well, one team wins, one team loses, both were on triple, that's just a 50-50 now. So it's a mere matchup again. It's not, the team, the other team stayed on triple the whole time. The other team stayed on 2-2-2 the whole time. Like it's just bad data. Like it's, we'd have to get so much further into the numbers.

Coach Mills (01:01:16.279)
gotcha.

Coach Mills (01:01:41.836)
Yeah, and I 100 % agree with you, Brad. I feel like the data is kind of nonsense. what I really think, because at end of the day, they did nerf triple support. Like that's what the ult charge change hurt the most is triple support. I think that what they're really trying to do is just change people's perspective. Because I think there's a lot of players, and this is mostly lower ranked players, and there is higher ranked players that believe this too.

Brandon (01:01:54.606)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:02:05.963)
that think that triple support is the best comp in any situation, it always wins and you only get to play the game until they swap to triple. Like, you get to have your game, but the same they swap to triple, if you don't swap to triple, you lost the game. And that's not true. Like that's not true at all. And they feel that they feel that way. And I feel like we know that that's not true. You do not need to play triple to beat a triple every single time. There's a lot of triples that are built poorly. There's a lot of...

Captain Coach (01:02:18.552)
There are a lot of players like that.

Coach Mills (01:02:30.817)
characters I think in triple that are not easy to play like play perfectly Loki Gambit Mantis Adam like these characters you can't just randomly play these characters for the first time and play them well like I think very often like it's very easy like as a diver you die let's say I'm venom and I hit the back line I love playing venom in a triple it's one of the strongest characters in a triple I'm not gonna get into why but you hit in the back line and a cloak will bubble and a Loki will totem at the same time there's no communication there's no coordination

Captain Coach (01:02:34.07)
I... Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:02:59.157)
You baited out two defensive cooldowns when it only really needed one. Like there's ways to punish like lot of these really poorly built, not very skillful players sometimes playing, like just try to throw a triple support comp together, because they think it's their route to just a free win. And it's just not true. It's just not.

Captain Coach (01:03:13.918)
Do you agree with what Ziyong said that triple support comps require more communication? Cause I did not agree with that at all either. I do not agree with that. Maybe in like the highest levels of play, but.

Coach Mills (01:03:25.077)
I think it more than more than more than two to two poke slop in my opinion more than like more than like Emma mag gene gene or gene Hella like cloak cloak like that

Captain Coach (01:03:32.878)
Because it's... I mean...

Brandon (01:03:36.128)
You guys ever have a triple support ult go off? Ever, yeah, you ever see that happen and go, we're that bad. Yeah, yeah, multiple times. It's horrible. It's horrible. Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:03:40.902)
Have you?

Coach Mills (01:03:40.967)
all three at the same time? Like it's... yeah.

Captain Coach (01:03:49.454)
I don't think I have. I haven't seen it because I never get damn triple support on my team. It's always the enemy team that gets it because I'm the one forcing it. I never get triple support, man. It pisses me off. I get so mad because I swear, 9 out of 10 triple support, it's the enemy team too. I like having triple support on my team, obviously as a Hulk, but sorry, just random crashed out my bed. I'm good. We're good.

Coach Mills (01:03:53.76)
Yeah

Coach Mills (01:04:08.619)
Like, cause yeah I mean I don't think I triple support, cause I climbed my main and my ult. I was fucking around on my ult with Momo, so that doesn't really count cause he's, you know, he's a, but yeah yeah yeah, but I got both of them to eternity. And I don't think that there was one game I played triple. I'm telling you, we could not find a support player in any game. Like, it felt like triple was impossible to find. Like,

Captain Coach (01:04:20.877)
were you? I didn't even know. I gotta go watch that.

Captain Coach (01:04:35.938)
Mamos said he's never doing it with me. He said I suck. He said that after the podcast.

Coach Mills (01:04:39.639)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, got a love-hate relationship yeah, yeah, yeah, y'all love each other yo yo yeah, but But but yeah anyways I I really think that this it's it's it's funny. They put this out because They didn't put this out and then not nerf triple support They put this out and then nerf triple support to like they were like they're like hey hey guys y'all need to calm down But also we're doing what what y'all want

Brandon (01:05:05.695)
Yeah, yeah.

Coach Mills (01:05:07.851)
So, you know, but.

Captain Coach (01:05:08.632)
Well, that's what you're saying about the percept, like the making the game more competitive to like whatever, grow the game, like you were saying earlier. That's why I think most of these changes are really not because it's what they want to do, right? I think it's just more just, I mean, I've just, like, I mean, that's what it is. They've been fighting tooth and nail not to do this. And now that we finally have it, they're going to see that it's going to help their game anyway. And they'll be like, we should just like listen to the people.

Coach Mills (01:05:13.035)
But people's perspec- yeah. Y'all going?

Coach Mills (01:05:24.855)
They don't want to do this!

Captain Coach (01:05:37.612)
talking about this, because that's who's gonna play and grow the game, right? it's been so crazy to me. It's been really interesting to watch,

Brandon (01:05:40.664)
Yeah, no, absolutely.

Coach Mills (01:05:43.466)
Yeah, yeah, but you mean, I mean, like, you know, you, you and I and now Brandon on the pot, like we all have our opinions about balance and stuff. I feel like it would be hard to be in the driving seat and then it's like you make decisions or you do things that people just don't see. And like maybe not everyone sees eye to eye. And, you know, I like I get that. Like, I get it. Like, it's probably hard to give up the reins and be like, OK, we're going to try your thing. We're to do your. Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:06:03.746)
This.

Captain Coach (01:06:08.173)
This podcast has been therapy for me. I can't wait. Every time I'm like, cannot wait to just talk about this game and hear other people's thoughts. But yeah, whatever you say,

Brandon (01:06:18.724)
Well, I haven't heard anyone really say, love the triple support gameplay loop so much fun. So much fun every time. It's no, I can be winning with it and go, I hate this. This isn't enjoyable. Like there's no part of me that's having fun. If I'm winning, I really don't care. I'm not enjoying the game. I'm not enjoying myself.

Captain Coach (01:06:26.242)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:06:35.246)
Hmm.

I know I'm pretty bored when I play that comp. Oftentimes you don't have anything to heal, so you're just looking for people to damage. And every team's just playing so safe, like, turtling until their ults come up. And it's just not, yeah.

Brandon (01:06:40.239)
down.

Brandon (01:06:48.536)
Yeah, it's just till the old fight starts. Good luck.

Coach Mills (01:06:52.823)
But now we're moving on to the balance changes and I want y'all to say what y'all have to, know, overall, there's gonna be some whole changes in there. There's just some overall changes. I'm very negative about a lot of these balance changes, but I'll definitely get to that in a second. Cap, how do you feel about some of the changes?

Captain Coach (01:07:11.572)
Overall I gave the patch notes an A not A plus an A not an S but First time I've ever given a grade that high I think the highest grade I've had before that for any of the patch notes was like a B minus and usually I'm like in the C or D and I think 6.5 I think I had it like F or something it was so You know moving in the right direction. I I'm off the top my head. I don't think Gambit alt

was nerfed enough, I know you have pretty strong feelings about that. And then yeah, they missed out Groot, but other than that, I really do like most of the changes. I think some changes to the alt charge nerfs on cap and the gambit alt were good, but not enough. think that, I it'd help if I had them in front of me. I really...

Coach Mills (01:08:05.495)
Oh, you want me to whip up? I mean, it's hard because I have to scroll through all of them. I think there's like a... Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk about... How do you feel about the Hulk changes?

Captain Coach (01:08:09.23)
I thought we were just gonna go down the list, but I could talk about the Hulk changes if you want.

Yeah, so Hulk is, I'm gonna do my responsibility as someone trying to give it to you guys straight, give you guys like the accurate representation of like what's good and what's bad at the cost of potentially Hulk now getting banned. Hulk's gonna be overpowered. He was already good. The only change Hulk really needed was changes to other heroes. And I've been saying this since really season two.

Coach Mills (01:08:31.519)
Hehehehe. Hehehehehe.

Captain Coach (01:08:44.396)
I've been saying this in season two, and this is a mistake I think a lot of games and developers, yeah, tend to make is that, yeah, I'll go over the individual changes here in a second, is that they make too many changes at the same time that they could affect other changes. Specifically with the Strange and Psylocke changes, I think that would be an example of them not doing that, because Strange has received periodic buffs to his damage and then periodic nerfs to his shield, which I do think is a really strong ability.

But then, know, Stylok just had nerf to her ultimate and is now getting buffed in the neutral. And this is from patch to patch. So I'm okay with them kind of reallocating power on a patch-by-patch basis instead of doing it all at once. But you shouldn't have like game defining things that affect a thing, in this case ult charge, and then like buff the ult charge of another hero who's already like probably better off just with the changes on their own. Basically what I'm saying is the ult charge change, nerf helps halt

more than other heroes and now Hulk's getting a buff on top of it. So he effectively got double buffed and now he's gonna be overpowered. Yeah, he will, he will. Good Hulk's even, Hulk's gonna get to the point now where you can be like not that good on him and probably still win. So I think Hulk is probably gonna be a banned hero for the first time for him actually being good.

Coach Mills (01:09:49.065)
Right. He's going to have all he might get old faster than a lot of most supports like very, very quickly.

Coach Mills (01:10:06.613)
And I honestly, I think it's good if Hulk's good. Like I know that that like, maybe the, you know, you're going to be biased to that, but I don't play Hulk at all. And I think it's good. Cause I was actually looking, we, today we did a, we, we ranked all the, ults on like most powerful, least powerful. I don't really think, I know that you can squeeze a lot of value out of it being really good, but I don't think that Hulk really stacks up compared to a lot of the value that most tank ults get. Even a lot of DPS ults. It's, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's not, it's not that great of a transform ultimate.

You know, it doesn't always require a counter-ult to stop and there can be ways to shut it down. So I think like, yeah.

Captain Coach (01:10:43.054)
The value of Hulk alt right now, at least, is the fact that you can get it faster than other alts if you play very, very well, which is hard to do, granted, but it's gonna be a lot easier to do that now. So they nerfed his shield from 250 to 200 a few patches ago, where it made you actually get less alt from your shield, which was actually a pretty big nerf, and then they made it so your shield comes up quicker. Now it's gonna be like the old values. So your shield that makes your alt charge go up is effectively going to go up to like,

roughly 10 % of a shield fully pops, which will allow you to be rewarded for being more aggressive while also not being disadvantaged from the fact that you do less damage from like, for your ult charge, which is why Hulk in particular benefits right from this. Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:11:24.694)
Yeah, like I

That's great. I think that like Hulk getting the most out of tanks to me makes sense because I think it's one of the weaker tank ults. We're not talking about Penny cause I mean that's like really, really weak, like, Gru having probably the most powerful tank ults and then also getting it the fastest was where I had some problems. Like I didn't, I thought that it's too strong to build so fast. It's like, that doesn't make sense, but Hulk building it so fast.

Captain Coach (01:11:45.39)
Yeah. And it's so easy to use.

Coach Mills (01:11:53.6)
It's not like there's no counterplay to a hokal, right? Like there are, and that's why I like it. Like, I think it's good. I think it's healthy.

Captain Coach (01:12:00.098)
Yeah, I really don't think, like, Hulk's win rate has historically been very high, but that's just because of how he's designed. Hulk's identity as a hero, like, secretly, this is not something I've really talked about too much, is that, like, if you have a Hulk on your team, if the Hulk is decent, like, your team's pretty much always gonna win the ult charge battle with, hero lords, because your shield does not give them ult charge, and you have it up, like, all the time. So if you can constantly fight with your shield up,

and know when to take damage on him, you can get your supports to their ult really quickly and deny a lot of ult charge and take a lot of space obviously with his health. He's just a very useful character to have on your team from that point of view. I would say on average, Hulk's team against like a non-Hulk team would probably get like one or two more support ults a game, just like on average, just because of like how, assuming the healers are halfway decent. So I'm pretty excited for these changes. I can't wait to try them out. This is the most excited I've been to play the game in a pretty long time.

Coach Mills (01:12:52.279)
Yeah, it's gonna be sick. I'm excited. I need that boost, that whole duo boost. Brandon, how do you feel about the patch notes overall? Is there any changes that you wanna specifically kind of hone in on or is there anything that you like, disliked about the patch notes? I know we can't go over every single change, but I'm kind of curious how you feel.

Captain Coach (01:12:56.43)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:13:02.296)
That's funny.

Brandon (01:13:10.458)
I mean, yeah, again, really, really same as coach, you know, this is this is the best patch notes I've seen and like since release, like there's it doesn't even really get close. I like the Gambit nurse through his ultimate ability. I do like, you know, I really personally didn't think strange had much of an issue, but I play Penny, you know, I stun Ogimoto all day.

Coach Mills (01:13:37.616)
Hey, you're right. Right.

Brandon (01:13:39.598)
That's different. The biggest thing about the patch changes that I want to see in play is CC chains and how that is being affected because they didn't really put that in here.

Coach Mills (01:13:51.768)
Oh, that's not gonna be till 7.5. Not gonna be live, so. Yeah, for those of you who are kinda just tuning in, there's gonna be, if characters are getting repeatedly CC'd, there's gonna be a reduction in their effect, but that only goes live next half season, 7.5, and not this one.

Captain Coach (01:13:51.949)
Yeah.

Brandon (01:13:53.729)
Okay, that's not so simplified word. So curious on that one. Yeah, I didn't know that.

Captain Coach (01:13:55.723)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:14:08.012)
Yeah, I wonder if it's gonna be, it should just be like a diminishing returns type of system where it's like half then like a quarter duration, but it might be like for specific effects, for your own, like for instance, Hulk juggles could get completely screwed over by that, but I would assume it's CC from each individual hero.

Coach Mills (01:14:12.331)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Brandon (01:14:23.448)
Yeah, yeah, I'd assume it'd be that way too.

Coach Mills (01:14:24.247)
Well, cause yeah, that, well, like, I don't know, like, cause like one of the things I do on Thor, DT character, by the way, and no, I'm just kidding, it's probably, um, we, we kidnap the mag and then we kidnap him again and then we kidnap him again and then we keep doing that. Like, can I keep doing that or is that not going to be a thing anymore? Like, that's what I wonder. It's, it's separate instances. Cause I also don't even imagine how they would prevent me. Like, are they, are they going to physically stop Thor from moving? You know what I'm saying? Like, how would they?

Brandon (01:14:36.812)
Yeah, well, so I would assume so. I would assume so because...

Captain Coach (01:14:38.286)
OOOOH

Brandon (01:14:51.756)
Or, yeah, no, I'd.

Coach Mills (01:14:53.215)
Or is that, is he gonna fall behind me like, like, you know, like...

Brandon (01:14:55.916)
I think it'll be separate because when I get in vis pulled in, you know, to the enemy's frontline and then the Spidey pulls me into, you know, even further in and then all of a sudden I'm bucky hooked as well. And then Emma turns around and chokes me and I could have just let go of the keyboard and mouse for the next five seconds. And there wasn't anything I can do anyways. Yeah. I think that's what they're trying to tackle more than just one singular person, you know, keeping it.

Captain Coach (01:14:56.13)
then there's

Coach Mills (01:15:14.615)
You might as well

Captain Coach (01:15:15.085)
Yeah.

Well,

Captain Coach (01:15:22.208)
I mean, there's a lot to talk about with that, because when things like that get added into the game, well, that's now a new system that you have to keep track of too, and be like, okay, wait, do they still, am I still on a timer? Will my attack do less CC, or should I wait a second or two until it's reset and I can have the full crowd control effect? will there be a visual indicator for that? How are players gonna be informed?

Coach Mills (01:15:22.677)
Makes sense. That's a huge buff.

Coach Mills (01:15:45.782)
Yeah, that's a good point. That is a good point. Cause it's going to be kind of weird when your ability doesn't do the same thing that you expect it to do. And you're like, why, why did that not do that thing? I know people are really upset right now about like no regs too. It's just like inconsistencies in general.

Captain Coach (01:15:50.698)
Yeah, and it's frustrating. It's really frustrating.

Brandon (01:15:53.358)
Well, what did-

Brandon (01:15:58.297)
Yeah, no regs are a lot of weird amount, like very odd amount of no regs. Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:16:03.731)
They've increased. They've increased. And it's annoying. It's very annoying. Yeah. Like, I've been playing Spider-Man. I finally got to Grandmaster with Spider-Man. Let's go. But yeah, getting a no-reg on anything Spider-Man related is kind of like a death sentence sometimes. Like, it's really rough. Like, it's very rough. It's interesting that y'all are so positive about these. I'm glad that you are. And I kind of said this is that the weighted part of the test, Nettie's...

past with flying colors, which is the extra bands and the old nerf. I think that is more important than anything else in the patch notes. like before, like my general sentiment is positive just without a note alone, like eight out of 10, maybe nine out of 10, you know, but when I actually look at the past themselves, I am very, very disappointed with some of these changes and like the main ones I want to focus on. So I love Tankpool. He's extremely broken though, like very obviously broken. This does not make him not S tier.

He's still the second best tank in the game, maybe the best tank in the game, and it's not really up for debate. I do know, Brandon, that you play like Gru, I play like Gru too. That character is still the best. He's still extremely best, especially on the maps, the choke points. The fact that I think that one of the things that's kind of frustrating about dealing with Gru is that you can flank around, destroy his ironwood wall, and it's like eight seconds and he gets it again, or he pulls it back halfway through. It's like...

Brandon (01:17:12.992)
yeah, he's still gonna be insane.

Captain Coach (01:17:28.044)
I,

I thought-

Coach Mills (01:17:30.915)
To me it's crazy to not touch him. I don't understand not touching. Nerfing Strange and Nerfing Cap but not touching like Gru is cra- it just makes no sense. Like what are we doing?

Captain Coach (01:17:40.278)
Mills, this is fine. I'm the Hulk player, man. And I'm not angry. Like this is to me just like kind of the identity of the game. I've accepted it.

Coach Mills (01:17:47.16)
It's it's two of the that but but but this is that's the problem is like if I thought of the five best characters in this game No, but not none of them got meaningfully nerfed like like look at Elsa do y'all do y'all really think this is enough if They die once that goes to two Thirty to forty that's insane. The character is still the best character in the game

Captain Coach (01:17:56.116)
We have more bands now, what are we complaining? Like just ban it. Just ban it. That's the whole point. That's the whole point. We don't need to complain. More bands means we don't have to worry about this. No, I don't. I said this.

Brandon (01:17:58.651)
That's just better. It's your vermin van.

Brandon (01:18:06.298)
No, no, that's not enough, no.

Captain Coach (01:18:12.494)
I said they should have removed this shield in my patch notes video and I said that I agree with you. I'm just not mad about it because I'm just like, got more bands that will just ban- like- no point in complaining about it. Yeah. This is why I say they don't want to make these changes. That's why I'm saying it, because this is clearly not enough.

Coach Mills (01:18:22.101)
I mean, she's just perma. That's that's what I'm talking about. This is like they nailed the weighted portion of the test. Right. But I'm going to because if they didn't, if they. But like, like this patch notes might have like a lot of these nerves to the ST or best heroes, they might have might as well have not even been in here. Like they might as well not even like when when the dev blog, when they announced, we're nerfing Elsa, we're nerfing Tankpool, we're nerfing Gambit, like my my.

my imagination of what the patch notes would be like was far better than what actually happened, which is just like a small slap on the wrist. this does not, this character is still the best DPS in the game, by, like by far.

Captain Coach (01:19:00.386)
Hey, Brandon, do you think they view NetEase, is, view Nerfing Heroes as like a financial disincentive or do you think it's like another reason?

Like Nerfina Hero makes them not want to play it, makes people play the game less, sell less skins, yada, yada, yada.

Brandon (01:19:17.914)
I, yeah, I would fall under that for sure. To where, you know, everyone power crapped up over months for that reason because some characters just weren't that much fun.

Captain Coach (01:19:20.59)
Yeah.

Brandon (01:19:30.484)
It wasn't that they were bad, was just they didn't keep up. Like, Blade is a great example, right? No one's buying a Blade skin, no one's playing Blade. People that were hyped about Blade. Yeah, no, I think he changes. I think Blade might be... Yeah, I think he might be here to play. Like, really.

Captain Coach (01:19:32.237)
Right.

Coach Mills (01:19:38.807)
Right. Hopefully now, hey, there's some big changes here. think they're, yeah, hopefully, hopefully not.

Captain Coach (01:19:42.238)
But... I think Blade's OP now.

I think I'm gonna be using one of them bands. I'm bleeding.

Coach Mills (01:19:48.248)
Like I like how every I like how every buff decision or new hero decision is just to give it fucking bonus self, bro I swear this is like give the character bonus elf. We the characters met it now. All right, cool. But now I Mean it makes sense don't get me wrong. Hey, don't get me wrong And maybe I actually think that these are these are meaningful changes like we've gotten like

Captain Coach (01:19:55.628)
Yeah.

Brandon (01:19:57.337)
Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:20:03.842)
Well, if you were to give it to a character, Blade would be the one and not, like, Iron Man.

Brandon (01:20:07.288)
Yeah, that makes the most sense. Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:20:14.203)
yeah.

Coach Mills (01:20:15.819)
It's probably like the fifth patch with buffs on blade, maybe the fourth. And this is the only one that actually matters. this is, this is hilarious, bro. I saw, I saw car cat. I think car cat on Twitter shout out car cat and Samju were both like Tom's you on TikTok crashing out. It's actually so funny that they did this. Like, I think this is worse than not doing a change. Cause if you didn't give them a change, it'd be like, Hey, we're working on something behind the scenes, but they didn't do that. They were just like, that's all you need.

Captain Coach (01:20:18.446)
And then, Black Panther just gets a slightly better double jump.

Brandon (01:20:23.106)
Yeah, I don't get that at all.

Captain Coach (01:20:31.02)
That's pretty funny.

Captain Coach (01:20:36.587)
You

Captain Coach (01:20:44.849)
Uh... Yeah, it's uh... There it is. It is- I- Like, why is it even in the game to begin with, by the way? Like, when I played him and I saw that that's how it works, I'm like, this makes no- Like, this is stupid. Like... Um... Can I-

Coach Mills (01:20:45.623)
That's very hilarious to me. That's very hilarious to me.

Hahaha, yeah. Hahaha. like I literally think like out of the top six best characters in the game, or let's just say top ten, I think the only one that they nerfed out of the top ten best heroes in the game was actual Daredevil. He's the only character that got a meaningful nerf out of the top ten best. Yeah, mean, Daredevil's probably still gonna be fine in like an actual dive comp, but I'm serious, like, Jean...

Captain Coach (01:21:09.42)
Yeah, it's a good nerve.

Captain Coach (01:21:16.878)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:21:20.139)
Gambit like they gave him a nerf but also a like a buff like a compensated buff Elsa grew tank pool Like they did not do anything to these characters that actually matter and that's what I'm kind of upset with because and it's not like like I said they they nailed the important stuff, but

Captain Coach (01:21:36.034)
The Angela changes are pretty much shifts how she plays. Did you want to, I did want to kind of touch on that. Cause I think they're trying to make her like make her extremes weaker and her missed like lower performers a little better. They're trying to like lower the skill gap between the best and worst Angeles by making her a little more like, I guess, brawly. You know, I thought, I thought this was an interesting change and it's probably going to make it easier for them to balance.

Coach Mills (01:21:40.439)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you could talk. Yeah, yeah, yeah, go for it.

Brandon (01:21:55.236)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:22:04.578)
long-term, I don't think top Angela players are gonna be too happy about this, because they lose a lot of their playmaking, I feel like.

Coach Mills (01:22:08.631)
I don't know if I'm right on this, cause I'm not gonna lie, like I'm a little lost about the fool. Yeah, I think that she's better at diving now, but like worse at displacing. I don't know if you feel like that, but I feel like, like she could be one of the, cause like pro players are already kind of playing her in like more dive compositions and like this like increases that, which is interesting. Like we might see like an Angela cap dive comp being better or something.

Captain Coach (01:22:14.459)
I think she's better.

Captain Coach (01:22:21.964)
Yeah, pretty much.

Captain Coach (01:22:34.478)
I think she's worse in the top 5 % Angeles maybe, but better for most Angeles. I have so many Angeles in my game. I'll get that are just absolutely useless. They will just do nothing and it's just like, why are you on that hero? I think those situations are, you're not gonna count her as much, but I think the top Angeles, the ones that are really just annoying as hell and just carry a game by themselves, they're gonna, I think, have a little harder time. Because I think her flight form is really what makes her so strong and that got hit.

Coach Mills (01:23:03.051)
And it's kind of interesting that like the kidnap play style of Angela, they're kind of nerfing it a bit here. And I feel like with the CC reduction change, it kind of feels like they want CC to just be toned down overall. Like they want characters to be less reliant on a CC cycle. It makes me wonder if they're going to ever, you know, touch Wolver or if they're just going to keep them the same. Like it's interesting that they're like characters that are centered around CC. They're like, Hey, maybe we don't want that much CC. It's kind of interesting over time because they actually did reference.

Captain Coach (01:23:16.078)
much today.

Captain Coach (01:23:23.426)
Hmm.

Captain Coach (01:23:31.458)
Why, I feel like Wolverine CC is honestly like the appropriate amount, because that's kind of his identity too. I think with Angela... Yeah.

Brandon (01:23:36.494)
Yeah, just.

Coach Mills (01:23:36.713)
Right, right. Yeah, you would have to change up his whole kit if you wanted to change. I'm not saying they should. I'm just wondering if they will, because...

Brandon (01:23:39.8)
Yeah. Just don't give them a jump pack every time and I'm good. Like that's fine.

Coach Mills (01:23:45.688)
Oh yeah? Yeah. I've been preaching forever that they need to get rid of the jump pack and change it for something else. I keep saying that. Everyone does it like, I it's so, I feel like it's so gimmicky to get grabbed and then taken fucking all the way back to spawn. Uh, but you know, maybe I'm just a hater. You know, what can I say?

Captain Coach (01:23:45.698)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy.

Brandon (01:23:51.674)
Thank

Captain Coach (01:23:51.704)
Nah, keep it. Keep it. I love shit like that. It's nutty.

Captain Coach (01:24:02.894)
It definitely doesn't look like something you'd see in one of the Marvel movies or anything, but it's not cinematic at all. It's corny, but I love it.

Coach Mills (01:24:08.329)
I- I- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Brandon (01:24:10.072)
Yeah, but like, yeah, look, I benefit Finny from it, right? Like if there's a wolf and he's halfway across the map and pulls them into my Penny mines with a jump pack, it's free, repeatedly. Like I just tell him, take his time on your rotations. There's nothing you can do about it.

Captain Coach (01:24:22.616)
Yeah.

Yeah, I hate that. I hate that combo so much.

Coach Mills (01:24:26.135)
Yeah, that's that's that's really fun that when that happens to me, you I Know I just I just play take pool now I just stay a healthy distance away from everyone that's trying to kill me and things are good. but But but like like and and as much as I complain about like there are some good changes in here I wanted to talk about before we move on but I'll say that it like my complaints don't really matter when there's through two two more bands like overall six bands total I think like

Captain Coach (01:24:33.294)
Ugh.

Captain Coach (01:24:38.796)
That's twice now he's giving me PTSD this podcast man going against pennies.

Captain Coach (01:24:54.444)
Yeah, be more positive Coach Mills.

Coach Mills (01:24:56.073)
No, I like I gotta there's a lot of people that are very mad I have to speak up because i'm mad too like y'all are almost too positive and I get it but like

Captain Coach (01:25:00.223)
Yeah, no, no.

Brandon (01:25:02.458)
But I just don't, I can't be with all the good. Like it's just.

Coach Mills (01:25:07.383)
I mean, there's good. I mean, that's, that's the thing is like, I just feel like this could have been a 10 out of 10, man. It could have been a 10 out of 10. Cause, cause those, the problem is like the more bands solve this problem. But if, if this problem didn't exist, like if I didn't have to ban Gambit and Elsa and Groot every game, then I could actually ban whatever I want to ban. You know, like it'd be cool if I could just ban things that I want to ban, but now I still can't. Like those bands are spoken for it. Two out of those three bands are spoken for. Um, and, that

Captain Coach (01:25:07.854)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:25:30.765)
you

Captain Coach (01:25:36.45)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:25:37.045)
You know, like it's nice. They fixed the problem, but they didn't solve the problem.

Captain Coach (01:25:40.014)
I get what you're saying, like... But that also invites a whole, like, opens a whole other kind of worms, which is like, everyone's gonna be fighting over bands, like, I wanna ban my counter, I wanna ban my counter, you know?

Coach Mills (01:25:45.092)
They like Right Right, right, but like like I feel like they gave us Yeah, yeah Yeah, Yeah, that's that's fine. Like yeah, he should he should just not Thor cuz he's D tier. but we we We they gave us another bucket to scoop the water out of the boat with the hole in it But they didn't patch the hole. That's that's kind of my analogy

Brandon (01:25:48.302)
I mean, yeah. I'm getting tinkled, you know? Like it's just gonna happen.

Brandon (01:26:01.12)
Okay. Propaganda.

Captain Coach (01:26:03.15)
Let's strike strike to strike to.

Captain Coach (01:26:11.566)
So Marvel Rivals ranked as a sinking ship. that what you're saying? Uh-oh.

Coach Mills (01:26:12.567)
Like the hole is still there, the water is seeping in, but we got another bucket so we can handle it. Yeah, I mean, it's a, yeah, you know, but we can keep, we can make it, we can make it. Well, okay. One, okay, besides Hulk, because you already said Hulk's gonna be broken. I need one character from each of you that you think is gonna be majorly better this season than they were previous season. Like if you thought that they were B tier, you think they're gonna be A or S. So if you thought they A, gonna be S.

Captain Coach (01:26:23.252)
I got that flex seal on my boat, Mills. I'm sailing pretty right now, Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:26:38.862)
Do you want to take you want to take blade or me I could use it for mine or you could take it like I Can I could pick I am you Hulk

Coach Mills (01:26:42.131)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, what do you think? I can kind of scroll through these a little bit if that helps. Well, besides Hulk, because I know you think Hulk's going to be busted. If you want me to, I could go first if you want. Because I think that Psylocke...

Brandon (01:26:42.958)
I mean, you can take, let me keep looking. You can take Blade. You can take Blade.

Captain Coach (01:26:50.69)
Hulk's an obvious one. Hulk's going to be really good. Yeah, that's obvious. Yes, he will be.

Captain Coach (01:27:00.95)
I like the Iron Man change a lot. I don't think he's gonna be majorly meta, but I think you will start seeing some Iron Man columns. It's a cool change. Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:27:05.899)
I know Metrix gonna like that. That's cool. I mean, that's a cool change. That is a really cool change. I'm just glad that they didn't give him bonus health on kill. You know they're thinking about it. Let's give him bonus health every kill. I think Psylocke has a good chance of going back up to S tier. She's kind of been an A tier this season, you know, a little bit on the down low. Buffing her neutral. Buffing her neutral in a season where everyone's old or better, worse. That's good. It matches the theme of the season. And I think that's cool.

Captain Coach (01:27:14.09)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:27:26.638)
I'm okay with them.

Coach Mills (01:27:35.287)
I think magic's gonna be a crazy good low elo stomper by the way now because people can actually hit her dashes.

Captain Coach (01:27:41.698)
Yeah. Yeah, I noticed they do this with the, they've done this with a few heroes, Magic, Angela. They're kind of going back that way with Psylocke where they're kind of making them a little more, like again, they're shortening the gap between the best and worst players. They're making characters like easier to execute your abilities on. So they're more consistent in the lower ranks. So I think Magic is another one of those characters that is super high skill ceiling. And she's really, really oppressive when you got like, you know,

Kingsmen you're against, but then other times you have magics that are just, it's like, bro, just swap. Like, what are we doing? Like, what are we doing? Yeah. So I'm cool with this. Like, I think overall for the game, this is fine. And I don't think it, you know, matters too much.

Coach Mills (01:28:16.791)
Me yeah, yeah fair enough when they're up against penny and they get over rolled over and over again that with

That's actually an interesting question I wanted to ask you, Brandon, real quick as a penny, as a high-ranked plenty player. I'm sure that there are certain characters that you just don't care about at all in the way that other people care about them. Like there are certain characters that you just never lose to ever.

Captain Coach (01:28:38.444)
I'm sorry.

Brandon (01:28:39.294)
yeah. Yeah. I mean, you'll see Hulk, you'll see DD. There's like maybe three Iron Fist players that really know how to rock my stuff. But yeah, mean, Wolf at this point, same thing. Like the only time you're losing to a Wolf is when it's a full team diff. Like you can run around a Wolf in circles all day long. There's nothing you can do.

Coach Mills (01:28:49.796)
Hehehehehe

Captain Coach (01:29:01.07)
Yeah. Tell me all the penny counters.

Coach Mills (01:29:01.365)
Right. And do you find the third band, bro? third band? No, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. Do you find that people are almost stubbornly trying to play their character into you and they just lose the game on it? Do you ever get free wins because the person will never... They refuse to swap to deal with you.

Brandon (01:29:09.732)
Now,

Brandon (01:29:16.844)
absolutely! A million times! Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:29:22.19)
Ha ha ha.

Brandon (01:29:22.734)
Yeah, because well, I mean, here's the big deal about forcing Penny into everything all the time, because that's the only way that you can learn to play her at a high level. If you swap off the second you get into a counter, you need to figure out whether that's a target priority or something you stay away from, right? It's not like everything works every time, but if the enemy team swapping to different...

DPS to counter me like yeah, you can go ahead scan you can go some DPS with good damage But I can just play a LoS usually the biggest issue is a flyer right like you okay, no Right, but at the same time most of the time that DPS counter swap for for me specifically or an enemy counter swaps for me It puts my team in a way better position Because you're counter swapping is something that my team can play into way easier

Coach Mills (01:29:58.732)
We haven't been in the fire metaphor a while. yeah.

Coach Mills (01:30:15.042)
Right, makes sense.

Captain Coach (01:30:15.438)
I feel like Penny players are probably some of the most insulted in Marvel Rivals. I feel like they get flamed more than almost everything.

Brandon (01:30:22.988)
It used to be bad, not anymore though. don't know. When the rocket team up, yeah.

Captain Coach (01:30:26.798)
Not anymore.

Coach Mills (01:30:28.256)
I think so. I respect Penny players. Because they win. They fucking win games. That's why I respect them. Coach is like, I've insulted five Penny players this week. Wait.

Captain Coach (01:30:33.934)
Maybe it's just me then. Shit. Just joking guys.

Brandon (01:30:41.114)
No, the Rocket Team Up got added and then everyone just stopped and then it got taken away and everyone's like, okay, I guess we kind of fuck with Penny now. But also when I get two support kills right in the beginning of the game from a lineup on Kunlun, no one's saying anything to me the rest of the game, no matter how bad I did, because I just won the first point for us for free. walked into it. Good luck making a play as impactful.

Captain Coach (01:30:51.34)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:31:00.99)
Hahaha!

Captain Coach (01:31:04.48)
Yeah. Also, I forgot to ask, what made you want to play her, Penny?

Coach Mills (01:31:06.71)
You earn your stripes, you earn your stripes, right?

Brandon (01:31:11.226)
really want, I mean, the story's weird. It's not like super Marvel rivals related. yeah, I, dude, I was, I was designing cabinets, like, sorry, like kitchens for people as like a 3d artist. and then I got laid off from work, right as I moved into this. Well, I mean,

Captain Coach (01:31:16.38)
you have a story? This is a place for stories. What else are going to tell it, bro?

Captain Coach (01:31:32.174)
So you blew up the place and that's why you love mines. Did I get it? Okay, I'm sorry. was a bad joke, bad joke.

Coach Mills (01:31:34.634)
Hehehehe

Brandon (01:31:35.595)
Kind of. Well, no, no, I got laid off from work at like a really terrible time and I ran into Guru at the gym and he's like, dude, life sucks. And I'm like, yeah, I'm like tweaked. And he's like, here's a stream PC, go get to work. There wasn't any content creators making Penny guides and I had fun with her. So I was just filling a hole because nobody was teaching Penny and still almost nobody's teaching Penny. Yeah, yeah, I ran into him at the gym. Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:31:56.92)
your IRL friends with Guru? you ran into them. that's cool.

Coach Mills (01:32:02.104)
Was that your f- nice. Fuck yeah. Yeah.

Brandon (01:32:04.003)
I moved here in 2020 to be a just chatting streamer like Austin. Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:32:08.012)
Where's that? dude, I used to live in Austin. I lived there for three years and then I moved away. Wait, yeah, what area?

Coach Mills (01:32:10.86)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're not far. You're not too far away from me. Like like an hour and a half.

Brandon (01:32:14.778)
Okay. North-ish. Like, I'm not in the burbs, but north-ish.

Captain Coach (01:32:20.354)
Yeah. I lived in Southeast at McKinney area. And yeah, I was just like part-time streamer and working a part-time job and trying to, and then I finally broke through and then I ended up moving to Maynard and it's nice out there. Yeah, it's nice out there, but it's pretty, yeah, Texas is pretty. It's really pretty.

Brandon (01:32:25.068)
Okay, here we go.

Brandon (01:32:35.29)
Yeah, I where my nerves. Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:32:39.544)
I'll take little mini road trips to go to H-Mart in Austin. We do love our HEB here. We all are all about our HEB.

Brandon (01:32:43.596)
yeah, that makes sense.

Captain Coach (01:32:44.564)
yeah, H-E-B, dude. H-E-B beats any grocery store I've ever been to. Yeah, it's great.

Brandon (01:32:48.91)
Yes, it does.

Brandon (01:32:52.504)
But the real two reasons was because there was a hole in content, but also this is my first time playing a video game competitively, like at all. Right, well, Penny has a lot of rules and best practices. She's not like, you just need a decent amount of game sense and experience and to follow the rules and to follow everything you know from your previous matches.

Coach Mills (01:33:01.112)
That's awesome though that you've came so far though. Like that's fucking awesome.

Captain Coach (01:33:01.465)
wow. Wow.

Coach Mills (01:33:15.852)
That's very hard for a lot of players to do though. That's either said than done though. Like that's impressive. Like, I mean.

Captain Coach (01:33:18.306)
I mean, dude, what I say he's a methodical player, I could tell this is just like his process, dude, because I think not a lot of people are like that. You were more scientific with how you play her. I've definitely noticed it. Because Penny's play so wildly different. What do you think about Ichigo, like him?

Brandon (01:33:33.304)
hugely, hugely different, yeah.

So Ishigo is great, all right? I was on an MRC team with Ishigo. We played a hundred hours of scrims together. We duod together an insane amount. He has a little bit more of a defensive play style and then I think his dives are good, but it's like, you feel the difference. You see the difference, right? I've played with Mr. Angry Penny. I've had lobbies with Flamelambs. I've, I've, no, I haven't watched Jaser very much.

Captain Coach (01:33:58.978)
Have you watched Jaser at all, Jaser? You should check him out. He plays so aggro. He does what you do, but way more aggressive.

Brandon (01:34:08.636)
Okay, yeah, no, I definitely I'll definitely peek some of his VODs. It's a let me have access to him. Yeah

Coach Mills (01:34:11.796)
Imagine captain goes like he feeds his brains out.

Captain Coach (01:34:15.414)
Hahaha

He was on my team in the Kingsman tournament. And yeah, we played Hulk Penning. We got third, so we did all right. it was really, it's not bad.

Brandon (01:34:21.613)
Okay, weird.

Brandon (01:34:26.894)
Hulk pinning can work. I've had a few Hulk players that I'm like, if it's you, it's fine.

Coach Mills (01:34:31.67)
I feel like that might be really good in controlling space, because you control a lot of space that way, you know?

Captain Coach (01:34:34.446)
Because it's more, yeah, yeah, I love jumping back to the mines and just getting free heals too. It's kind of nice.

Brandon (01:34:41.504)
yeah, no, if I'm tanking on Groot and I can play on webs the whole time, I can engage and disengage from fights insanely fast, especially in high choke areas. So I think that's really good. Yeah, yeah, I'll sell your games. No problem.

Coach Mills (01:34:41.975)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:34:51.382)
Yeah. We should duo sometime. We should duo. That'd be fun. Dope.

Coach Mills (01:34:56.856)
So, one of the things I also heard is that during placements, you're still gonna be playing against people that were in your previous rank. Like it's not, I don't know the full details on this, but from my understanding, it's like, let's say you're in eternity right now and then you get placed in a low elo and you go back to playing that account later and it's not gonna put you against Diamond players. It's gonna put you against players that were in the same elo that you were left at.

It's less unintentional smurfing is gonna go on basically. Where accounts aren't getting dragged back, if that makes sense. It's placing you based on your MMR, your hidden MMR and not your rank is kinda what it's doing now. Less like, know. Cause sometimes I went and played on my ult that I haven't played on in some seasons that used to be Celestial One and I was playing in plat. And playing against plat players. And that wasn't fair to them. I mean I'm basically smurfing but I have no choice. That's basically what it is.

Brandon (01:35:38.403)
Okay.

Coach Mills (01:35:57.256)
That's one of the changes that we're seeing. Another thing is we're getting a new map as well. And we're getting back Shinshibuya as well. So we're getting kind of two maps this season. How do you, did you like Shinshibuya? Brandon, how do you feel about that?

Brandon (01:36:11.194)
I hope they rework the first joke. I mean, I love conversions. I love convoy, domination. You could take it out of the game completely and I'd be a happy camper. I know you're a Hulk flayer. That makes sense. Of course you like domination.

Coach Mills (01:36:13.939)
Yeah, yeah.

Captain Coach (01:36:15.47)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:36:22.072)
Agreed, agreed, which is funny because I loved Domination back in Overwatch, but...

Captain Coach (01:36:24.524)
I like domination. I like it. I like it.

Coach Mills (01:36:28.944)
I don't like domination because I throw the first map because I'm tank pool sometimes because I'm very weak. Yeah, yeah.

Captain Coach (01:36:33.25)
I like it because I like to dominate.

Brandon (01:36:33.742)
Yeah. But I'm so happy to get another convergence map. I love those flanks. I love those defensive setups. I'm going to have a lineup video for it. Yeah, yeah, no, that's my, yeah, he's my shepherd husky mix. Hi buddy. Hello.

Coach Mills (01:36:41.826)
Agreed.

Coach Mills (01:36:45.51)
puppy! go for your puppy!

Captain Coach (01:36:46.111)
you have a dog. German Shepherd? Is that a German Shepherd? wow. wow. He's like, like black and whitish, gray. What is that?

Brandon (01:36:55.33)
Yeah, yeah, he's mostly shepherd-colored, but he's just got the heterochromia from the husky. Yeah, but now he's sweet.

Coach Mills (01:36:56.578)
That's cool.

Captain Coach (01:36:58.54)
or light brown.

Oh, he looks so much. So I actually had a Husky Australian Shepherd, Husky Australian Shepherd. It looked a lot like that actually. Dodger was his name. I love dogs. I'm a big dog guy.

Coach Mills (01:37:03.596)
That's awesome.

Coach Mills (01:37:11.16)
Yeah. Yeah. I have a rat instead of a dog. What I mean by that, it's a chihuahua. It's like a tiny chihuahua. Oh, really? Oh, nice. they're throwing... Yeah. Yeah, they're throwing your ranked games on Jeff. Yeah. Oh, okay. But I think that the combination of...

Brandon (01:37:12.558)
Yeah, no, me too.

I've got, oh, okay. I was about to say I have 14 rats actually. Yeah, they're just in my freezer right now. Yeah, I know. No, I have.

Captain Coach (01:37:18.838)
really?

Does your, I got five on my team every game with these, yeah, these chess players.

Brandon (01:37:31.054)
That was good.

Coach Mills (01:37:38.924)
The new map plus the revisit of Shin Shibuya, which I hope is reworked, and the three bands and the old nerf, like that mix and the new hero, like that mix is gonna make this feel like a completely new, like it's gonna feel completely different, like completely different. A lot more diversity. I also request for Hell's Haven to get taken out of the map pool now that we're adding something in. Yeah, okay, okay,

Brandon (01:37:42.937)
Yeah, just a

Captain Coach (01:37:52.471)
New game.

Yeah.

Brandon (01:38:02.2)
Yeah, that'd be fine. Yeah, that's cool. I'd do that.

Captain Coach (01:38:04.76)
Wait, which one is that? The Hydra map? The Hydra map? Wait, that's my second favorite map! I love that map!

Coach Mills (01:38:08.408)
Yeah, it's the Hydra map. Yeah, yeah, I fuck it. No, no, no, fuck that map. I fucking hate that map, especially the map, the one with the pit on the side, because Spider-Man players, Spider-Man players just make that map just play in a completely different way.

Captain Coach (01:38:15.596)
The pit on the side sucks, that one does suck.

Brandon (01:38:19.364)
Well, I just hate the walls there and how they interact with everything. it's, yeah, the moving, yeah, no, that just, I can't.

Captain Coach (01:38:23.371)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:38:24.588)
and moving, moving, randomly moving doors and I know I do. I lost a game because one of one of my teammates swapped to strange ported to point and then the portal, the point moved and broke the portal and then the portal was broken and we lost instantly. I was like, cool. Nice. That was cool.

Captain Coach (01:38:29.524)
It's cool, it's fun, come on. I love that map.

Brandon (01:38:41.092)
Yeah. Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:38:43.959)
Yeah, that's, what about when Cloak alts on the, when it goes down and then it just doesn't heal them? It's so stupid. And then it's just like, do you blame the support? Like who you blame in there? Like, it's just like, yeah, that's unlucky. I probably would have done the same thing. Maybe they need to make this the glitter that she puts down just like, I don't know, drop or something. It has like a space beneath it. But I did want to talk about the placements that you were talking about because.

Brandon (01:38:51.97)
yeah, then it's just gone entirely insane.

Coach Mills (01:38:52.184)
Yeah

Coach Mills (01:39:04.567)
Captain Coach (01:39:15.598)
because they're doing it with performance points more now. But I think they need to keep iterating on that and figure it out to make it, because they're making it, it seems like they're making your placements matter more. Make them matter way, way more. And then just do a full ranked reset and you won't really ever need to do them again. don't think it's some, placements, don't think it should be something that should be happening every season. I know this is something like a lot of people probably disagree on, but.

Coach Mills (01:39:43.917)
Yeah, it's definitely controversial. Some people, I mean, it's weird because the longer you go with that one, the more people think that if they just had one, like some people get into their mind that they're stuck in a certain rank due to some weirdness in the system. And if they just get a reset, then they'll get out of that rut, you know.

Captain Coach (01:40:00.814)
Yeah, I'm more under the, I mean, maybe this is just because kind of how like the games I have played in my life had been, but ranked is, should be more of like a slower, longer progression. So people get these like long-term feeling of like accomplishment. It shouldn't be something that you could just grind in a short amount of time and automatically get to the rank you want like you are now. it's, so I think if they kind of slowed down the progression, they could make the placements matter a lot more.

Coach Mills (01:40:29.804)
Maybe like every three seasons, every two to three seasons or something like that. That's when they do a reset and not so often. I could see that. Cause every two months is kind of wild. That is, that's a way. Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:40:32.844)
Yeah, like a- Yeah. Yeah, I like that. It's weird, it's just a never- you're on a treadmill, just never ending, it's just like, can we get a break?

I just feel like it has helped. I will say that. It has helped. But I'm saying just don't even demo people every season. Or do it even less than it is. I don't know. I feel like I'm in the minority probably in that. But maybe some people who agree.

Brandon (01:40:59.031)
I think you are in the minority.

Captain Coach (01:41:06.03)
I would love to play this game more casually and be able to focus on other things, not just constantly spamming ranked games, but I know that's kind of what they want a little bit. I'm trying to speak for the casual players here too.

Brandon (01:41:20.526)
Yeah, well, I don't think people at the top are spamming games, right? Most people camp top 500 for a while. Like, that's just what most do. You'll see them on their C1 account once they get top 500. And then once they lose out of top 500, they'll go play on it again. Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:41:30.423)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:41:34.868)
There's a lot of alt accounts. Again, another reason why it'd be nice if it was a kind of like a slower, longer type of...

Brandon (01:41:39.928)
Yeah, it's...

Coach Mills (01:41:40.972)
Yeah, like a harder journey to the top so there's less ult account play. Because that's all the last week. I mean, and I'm saying this too, like everyone's just on their ults or smurfing. Like the last week at play. I mean, there's like random pros you're going to run into in C3 or C2. you're not... Yeah, no, yeah. Yeah, it's awful. It's awful, yeah.

Captain Coach (01:41:43.383)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:41:49.934)
Last week of the season's the hardest to climb, I feel like.

Brandon (01:41:57.018)
Yeah, I won't touch my main end of season. Nobody cares anymore. Everybody's throwing. Not doing it.

Captain Coach (01:42:01.23)
I, bro, I elo decayed out of eternity. I didn't touch it and I dropped it. I gotta get it back and it's last week. Yeah, it's eight days. It's, yeah, 20 points and then it's 16 days.

Brandon (01:42:06.404)
Yeah. Yeah. If you don't play for a week, you lose like, what is it, 20 points or something? Okay. Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:42:07.084)
Wait, that's how that works?

Coach Mills (01:42:15.35)
I might have, my, my, my, my mane might have fallen out even though my ult's in. I need to look at that. That'd be kind of annoying.

Captain Coach (01:42:19.274)
Yeah, it's fine though. I only care about the peak rank anyway, but I am gonna try to get it back.

Coach Mills (01:42:27.436)
That was fair enough, yeah, yeah, true.

Brandon (01:42:28.068)
But, Cappy, we're talking about performance-based. Anything I'm against, like performance-based. Okay, cool. Glad we're on the same page. Cool.

Coach Mills (01:42:38.488)
I... yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, we're mainly just talking about like your wins and losses in your placement matches, not your... Like, I think... I'm pretty sure you... Yeah, I think... I know you talk with death a lot. Me and death are kind of 100 % on the same page where it's like, wins should matter and that's it. Like, win. Win the game. Like, non-tangibles. whether you're getting zero kills and stalling. Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:42:38.827)
me too! Me too. Yes, yes.

Brandon (01:42:44.31)
Okay, yeah, sure, sure.

Captain Coach (01:42:46.795)
I think performance points should be removed. Like I don't think they should be in the game at all. Yeah.

Brandon (01:42:48.814)
Yeah. Yep. Okay. Yep. Yep.

Brandon (01:43:00.474)
It's just you can't equate it is all.

Captain Coach (01:43:04.994)
They should matter in the lower ranks though. I do like performance points in lower ranks. Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:43:07.794)
yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah.

Brandon (01:43:08.382)
yeah, sure, sure. Do you bronze through, plat, diamond? Sure, fine. You should gain 36 if you're in gold stomping on people. You should get out of there pretty quick. Yeah, sure.

Coach Mills (01:43:15.062)
Yeah, yeah, But, yeah.

Captain Coach (01:43:20.364)
Okay, you should gain a hundred like if you go 60 and and everybody else is like 20 You should just get like you should just get jumped up to like from gold to diamond

Coach Mills (01:43:26.86)
Yeah, they literally should just place you in like two rings higher like instantly like yeah, but but no a hundred percent like I feel like if

Brandon (01:43:29.188)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:43:34.306)
Does your dog have to go out? I think I hear him whiner. Is that like your chair or something? OK. If you needed to take a break, like a dog break, you'd be All right.

Brandon (01:43:38.224)
he's yelling at me for attention. That's all that is. Yeah, no, he's just back there. No, no, no, you're good. I take him up before stream every day.

Coach Mills (01:43:41.292)
Bye puppy, hello.

Coach Mills (01:43:46.616)
but yeah, no, yeah No, I completely lost which it's no big deal. It's all your fault. Fuck supports It's all these support for it play now. It's good. Does that segue to back to shooting on support? Yeah, I hear the puppy the puppy. Yeah. but yeah, I mean overall I think like if I were to give this all a review like I literally think it's probably like an eight out of ten eight point five

Captain Coach (01:43:51.662)
Sorry I interrupted your meals.

Captain Coach (01:43:55.911)
The dog needed me, man.

Captain Coach (01:44:03.918)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:44:13.452)
I think it could have easily been a 10 out of 10 for me, you know, it's still very, very positive. Like overall, I'm more excited to play season seven than I have in like the past like three or four seasons. So like it's all good. Good, good. That's, that's good. yeah, I mean, most patches have not been great anyways. So like, what do I expect? Like, don't, shouldn't expect too much. So what about y'all? What's y'all's overall review, overall verdict of all the changes, all the patch notes, the new character, the new map, everything. What do y'all think?

Captain Coach (01:44:44.696)
You wanna go first?

Brandon (01:44:45.586)
I'm happy. I'm having a good time. I'm gonna be Locket Pity a lot more. it's just... That's totally fine. That's... That's okay. That's a throw ban. D tier character. Like... I mean, okay, then I'm gonna go Groot instead. Are you gonna be happy then? No. You're gonna be way more miserable if I'm playing Groot than if I'm playing Pity. Uh-oh. Like...

Coach Mills (01:44:47.437)
hehehehe.

Captain Coach (01:44:51.694)
I'm gonna be banning Penny a lot more.

Coach Mills (01:44:59.466)
Not if you're on it, bro.

Coach Mills (01:45:08.472)
I'm banning only tanks. No, I'm just kidding. Remember we played against each other in the thing and we got your... So we were playing in a tournament against each other and we banned, me and Brandon were, and we banned his penny and he was like, I forgot, he said victory. I forgot what you said, something like that. And then we banned your Groot and then...

Captain Coach (01:45:11.022)
you

Brandon (01:45:28.969)
I'm sorry.

And then I think I'll ban Mag too, didn't you?

Coach Mills (01:45:33.048)
No, I I said I typed what what else do you play Brandon? I'm a fan that too. I said I said we the plan is the band Brandon That's the that's the that's the win condition. Okay. I should have known we did bad mag We just kind of shot in the dark. We were like Yeah, yeah, no it's in pause like I'm tank players are hard to ban out because we typically know how to play like more than We have to swap around anyways. well, you you kind of forced to

Brandon (01:45:37.465)
Ha!

Captain Coach (01:45:39.694)
Wow

Damn, that's some respect.

Brandon (01:45:47.482)
Well, yeah, I mean, I'll ban Mag, which like, those are my three, but I've been learning Emma, so it's fine. I guess so.

Brandon (01:45:57.272)
I do now. I do now. Yeah. I do now. Like it's been, yeah. Now for MRC, I had to for sure. Not anymore. No, I don't care. Ban me out. Go for it.

Coach Mills (01:46:01.718)
If you get too good, it's like, do you use like, do you do the thing where you hide your stream when you queue in? Like you hide your, not anymore? Yeah, I got fuck it. I mean, it's nice, it's nice cause you know Gru and Penny, like it's almost impossible to ban you out completely. I mean, hey, just learn Tankpool, bro. And then it's literally impossible for people to ever ban you, ever.

Brandon (01:46:14.008)
Yeah.

Brandon (01:46:18.874)
My aim, my aim, I'm working on it. It's just not there though. It's not there at all.

Coach Mills (01:46:23.764)
Okay, fair enough I mean the hot the the thing that players don't know is you you don't have to your shots in tank pool and you could still carry that kick I'm telling you that kid just still giga broken. I'll keep I'll keep preaching it can't a okay, what's what's that? What's the no aim thing? I mean, there's quite a few of them

Brandon (01:46:35.63)
You gotta hit some. I'm not hitting any. You gotta hit a few. no. Yeah, it's not good. No. Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:46:40.398)
Yeah, you understand he's he's

Brandon (01:46:51.706)
But for Groot, you're so close to everyone and you're just hitting body shots, so who cares?

Coach Mills (01:46:53.101)
Yeah, need some more tanks for sure

Captain Coach (01:46:56.728)
That's weird, I

Coach Mills (01:46:59.97)
That's true, that's true, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Captain Coach (01:47:02.102)
Weird, with Hulk, I feel like I'm so good at aiming his abilities, but not anyone else's. I'm in, my stunts are insane.

Brandon (01:47:08.046)
Yeah, no, I can hit Penny Stuns.

Coach Mills (01:47:09.036)
You, you bro, yeah. No, cap, cap, I'm not gonna lie. Okay, I love your Punisher, okay. But when I watch you play, when I watch you play Punisher, I'm like, okay, his aim's okay. But then I watch you play Hulk and you hit like this fucking 180 flick up exile and I'm like, this, I was like, why is it this motherfucker on Hella, bro? Like what is going on? Like, how is that possible? I don't get it though. I just don't, I don't get it at all.

Captain Coach (01:47:15.918)
Dude, what?

Captain Coach (01:47:27.95)
Dude, I'm nasty with it. You know what it is? It's not reaction time. I'm too old for that shit. It's the no. I know what they're gonna do before and I'm already ready for it.

Coach Mills (01:47:40.14)
The know, the knowledge. Make the shot as easy on yourself as possible mechanically, yeah.

Captain Coach (01:47:46.638)
Also, Hulk has a cast time with his abilities and also projectile speed, but it's like super fast. And I've always been better at projectile characters in games, like for some reason better than like hitscan. So when I do it, it's usually at a point where I'm like ready at a moment's notice to flick it. It's not, cause it's not instant. You know I'm saying? So I'm like almost thinking, I'm the only thing I'm doing once I've pressed my stun is react to what, like what they're going to do. we did this range jump and then it's muscle memory at that point.

Coach Mills (01:48:06.624)
Right, right.

Coach Mills (01:48:12.182)
Gotcha.

Makes sense.

Captain Coach (01:48:16.139)
So yeah, but yeah, I know I'm getting, my punny's kind of cracked, dude. I posted, my editor posted a YouTube short, I didn't even know. Like usually I'll just be like, here's a few clips and, which shout out Zinja, Zinja's great. Been doing all my shorts and I got like a punny clip, man. You should go look at it. I'm getting kind of nasty with them. man.

Coach Mills (01:48:19.87)
Okay.

Coach Mills (01:48:34.68)
How are you getting- oh he's getting different with it? You gotta embrace the shotgun only pony, that's the strongest way to play the character.

Captain Coach (01:48:41.174)
I don't use the shotgun. I'm a ranged, or what is it, like a machine gun? What is it called? The AR, I guess? I don't know. I'm so bad with the shotgun, but I'm pretty good at longer range, I feel. Pony's fun, I like Pony. He's cool. Hell yeah, dude. What do think?

Coach Mills (01:48:48.79)
AR, yeah, AR only, buddy.

Coach Mills (01:48:57.138)
yeah, no guy got more tricks in your bag more tricks in your bag. You pick up the new support. you pick up cloak. You're good. You're good. Yeah. And, and so, so Brandon, so this is your first, like rivals is the game that got you into concentration. Is that, is that right?

Captain Coach (01:49:03.074)
Yeah, I'm gonna heal you on my cloak, bro.

Brandon (01:49:04.823)
Yeah, close still, great.

Brandon (01:49:15.385)
I was just chatting streamer before. I just yapped a bunch.

Coach Mills (01:49:18.734)
okay, okay, nice.

Captain Coach (01:49:19.406)
Coach Mills (01:49:22.112)
About? this anything? Is this everything?

Brandon (01:49:23.449)
Everything. Everything. I had like 3000 hours of just chatting and I've got like a lot of life's been weird. So I have a lot of lore and like just odd things. So.

Coach Mills (01:49:29.122)
Coach Mills (01:49:33.24)
Oh nice. old are you by the way? 30. Oh okay. We're a bunch of unks on this pod. I'm almost 29. Captain Coach is like 50 something. I don't know. But yeah, we're all kind of old. We're just some unks.

Captain Coach (01:49:34.028)
I I knew it guys.

Brandon (01:49:37.241)
30. Yep.

Captain Coach (01:49:41.164)
Yeah.

Uh, yeah, I don't want to say that's, that's about right. Yeah. I knew a, uh, another guy in, in, uh, Austin name was wake. He, Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Me too. Okay. Yeah. Mutual friend then wake is he's great, man. He's, he started out doing like gym streams and stuff. then he, Oh, okay. We'll say hi to wake for me. Wake's great. Yeah. Tell him you went on my pod or our podcast.

Brandon (01:49:44.974)
Hehehe.

Brandon (01:49:54.563)
Mike Wilder, yeah, I've been to a few of his house parties, yeah.

Brandon (01:50:01.111)
Yeah. Yeah, we go to the same gym. So yeah. Yeah, no, sure. I will.

Coach Mills (01:50:07.882)
nice.

Captain Coach (01:50:12.435)
yeah, that's cool, that's so cool that you live here. We probably have a lot- Yeah, we probably have a lot of mutuals.

Coach Mills (01:50:13.88)
It's crazy how everyone knows everyone. I know in Austin there's a lot of YouTubers and content creators. I used to work a YouTube job in Austin. Yeah, there's a lot.

Brandon (01:50:21.281)
Yeah, no, mean a lot of the space here, you know, like the house parties and all that, you know, all the bigger streamers are at, everybody just gets invited and as long as everybody's cool and having a good time and not like, you know, crazy tweaked out on shrooms or something, you're good. You get invited back. So.

Captain Coach (01:50:27.319)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:50:35.594)
Yeah, you seem pretty laser focused, I feel like. It's pretty easy to get caught up in all that stuff, you know what I mean?

Brandon (01:50:43.517)
yeah, I know people that have been there streaming IRL on kick and their life's a mess. So like that's that's what happens when you get caught up in the space versus like, hey, this is my work that I really enjoy, you know, two very different things.

Coach Mills (01:50:49.818)
Nice.

Captain Coach (01:50:50.582)
Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:50:57.236)
Yeah, yeah. I've always found it's better to kind of do your own thing than if you can make time for like that kind of stuff. That's generally where I've like found the most success with that sort of thing. Just kind of staying in my own lane and you know.

Brandon (01:51:03.149)
Mm-hmm.

Brandon (01:51:08.066)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:51:11.17)
I'll tell you the meta right now guys, get married or get carried. That's the only way. Like that's the chat. I feel like I'm literally the only consecrated that has a wife and kids. There's a couple other ones, but like very few. Very, very few. Exlek, which is cool, but like Cozy. That's why I say I'm older than Captain Coach. That's what I say.

Captain Coach (01:51:13.826)
Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha.

Captain Coach (01:51:23.022)
Yeah, I was not surprised at all when you told me that. Excellent.

Brandon (01:51:26.701)
Yeah, I make fun of X for being such an adult though, all the time. insane. was like, how's your mortgage going? You know, the taxes.

Captain Coach (01:51:37.262)
Yeah, you are mentally. I'm 19 maturity-wise.

Coach Mills (01:51:39.468)
But

Brandon (01:51:41.465)
Yeah, no, I'd put myself at like 22, 23 maybe. I mean, I keep a motorcycle in my living room. What are we doing?

Captain Coach (01:51:44.642)
Hahaha

Coach Mills (01:51:47.328)
Let's fucking go. What is it? What is that? Is that a Suzuki? Let's go. Let's go. I think yeah, my I think my brother bought a 2025 Kawasaki recently. He loves that. I don't I used to ride dirt bikes as a kid. So we used to ride that. But. Yeah, bro, I'm not nobody. Yeah, Brandon, your setup is putting ours to like, I thought my setup is kind of cool, but then I look at yours and like, fuck, what the fuck? It's too nice. And then in camp, the coach here is like, what the fuck is that?

Captain Coach (01:51:48.034)
That's dope. That's dope.

Brandon (01:51:50.787)
Yeah, it's a jigsaw.

Captain Coach (01:52:01.632)
I should probably get a better webcam. I'm just looking at mine. It's like I could see the static.

Brandon (01:52:13.529)
I was

Captain Coach (01:52:16.181)
i got this? like i don't know where to put it, it's just sitting on the floor, it's cool! like my friend gave it to like, yeah, put it up, like, behind on your stream, and i just like, this is awesome!

Brandon (01:52:19.48)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:52:23.862)
Just hang it from the ceiling. Just like rotating right there.

Captain Coach (01:52:26.67)
It's just just spit it here This is dope though look at this or wait the camera's here I'm so sorry

Brandon (01:52:29.283)
It's-

Coach Mills (01:52:37.326)
Are you really into like X-Men movies and lore and stuff like that, Brendan?

Brandon (01:52:41.113)
I love film. Period.

Coach Mills (01:52:42.71)
You love film? Did you watch the Oscars the other day? Or did you hear about it? No, no. OK. Absolutely not.

Brandon (01:52:46.781)
No, I don't like those. no. There's just a very big belief in watch a film for what it is, not what it could be or not what you wanted it to be. like, just, yeah, I have a hundred inch projector in my bedroom and like a 5.1 surround system. I really love film. Yeah.

Captain Coach (01:52:50.798)
You

Coach Mills (01:52:55.872)
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Coach Mills (01:53:03.116)
okay. Is there like a, do you have like a number one movie? I know that that's hard. Like just like a movie that comes to mind. Like, like I haven't, I haven't, I haven't, I actually have never seen that movie. I've never seen that movie. I never seen that. I need it. I need to do it. No country for old men. Yeah. I'll watch it. I I watch it. yeah.

Captain Coach (01:53:03.936)
that's awesome.

Brandon (01:53:07.257)
Captain Coach (01:53:09.196)
I just watched No Country for Old Men last night again. Love that movie. we should do a movie night. It's free, it's free right now on YouTube. Literally free to watch. Great movie.

Brandon (01:53:11.213)
Yeah, I mean, that's on the list, the top three, you know.

Brandon (01:53:19.947)
Yeah, very good one. Along those same lines like Hell and High Water.

Captain Coach (01:53:27.233)
I haven't seen that.

Coach Mills (01:53:28.088)
There's a lot of movies that I haven't seen that I probably should have seen. Because I spent my entire childhood just watching anime. So like I didn't really... I did not really watch any like movies like The Godfather. I did not see that. The Shapranos. I did not watch that. Like... Yeah, yeah. And it's pretty much from the year Breaking Bad came out and onward are the only things I've seen. I haven't seen anything before that. Like anything in the past. haven't. Like District 9 is my favorite movie. I love that fucking movie. District 9 is...

Captain Coach (01:53:33.958)
And mistope.

Captain Coach (01:53:41.432)
Coach Mills is a weeb confirmed.

Brandon (01:53:43.33)
I'm

Captain Coach (01:53:52.654)
Definitely like some anime. District 9 sick.

Brandon (01:53:55.447)
Yeah, can't wait for the second one. It's going to be huge.

Coach Mills (01:53:57.864)
Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, it's like when GTA 6 is gonna come out. Exactly. Like, it's like,

Brandon (01:54:00.344)
Yeah

Captain Coach (01:54:02.476)
Yeah, that's a movie that's not one that lot of people know about still. I think it's one of the best like sci-fi adaptation. Like it's so realistic, the way it's shot and they have like splatter effects on the camera and very relevant, yeah.

Coach Mills (01:54:09.761)
And it's, yeah.

Yup. Very relevant today too. It's very good. It's a lot of social commentary. It's very good. I like it a lot. Yeah, it's like, it's the right combination of fucking cool as shit and like actually like a good movie. Yeah. But,

Captain Coach (01:54:19.244)
The mech scene, fucking aunt, that's a really cool, it's, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm a big movie guy too though. We should do a movie night, dude, that'd be fun. Yeah, man.

Coach Mills (01:54:32.804)
Movie night you think rivals would let us watch a Marvel movie and I can't not stream like no They're like no absolutely not all right. Well, I don't want to take too much of your time So is there any closing thoughts that you have just about the state of the game the future of the game? Things that you want to see in the game. Is there anything heroes you want to see in the game? Brandon and anything that you

Captain Coach (01:54:36.526)
Maybe, that'd be fun. Career goals, career goals, dude.

Brandon (01:54:57.483)
I want another team up for Benny that's not the Spidey team up. Just some... All I really want in the game is Lockjaw and Cosmo. Give me some dogs. Give me Lockjaw as a tank. Give me Cosmo as a support. That's it. Put some dogs in the game, please.

Coach Mills (01:55:00.376)
I'm trying to think of if there's another hero that could be Penny like like another penny like hero

Captain Coach (01:55:01.358)
Thank

Coach Mills (01:55:15.951)
a dog.

Coach Mills (01:55:22.804)
Yeah, that's awesome actually. That's awesome.

Captain Coach (01:55:25.006)
That's cool. didn't even know who those were. Cosmo, I'm assuming, is the Superman equivalent of crypto. yeah, yeah, I have.

Brandon (01:55:28.345)
Have you seen the Guardians of the Galaxy? You haven't seen their... Yeah, Cosmos in there. Yeah. Yeah, and then... Yeah, yeah. And then Lockjaw is like a big, tanky dog. Like just a giant dog. Like a massive dog. So make him a vane bird. Just give me dogs. I'll be happy.

Coach Mills (01:55:35.146)
that, yeah yeah yeah. It's telekinesis right? Or, was say, yeah.

Captain Coach (01:55:36.912)
right, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah.

Captain Coach (01:55:46.082)
Okay.

Coach Mills (01:55:47.564)
Big dog.

Captain Coach (01:55:49.646)
Cool. I'm sure it.

Coach Mills (01:55:50.898)
And what team up, what character do you want to team up with? Just the big explosion.

Captain Coach (01:55:53.934)
Jeff I feel like Jeff's obvious for dogs

Brandon (01:55:57.56)
I want to team up with a main tank is the big thing. I'm tired of... I really didn't like the rocket team up just because you had to have rocket in every game now, which just isn't fun to play around. There's not much... A rocket can't enable a penny, really. Like, on die... Like, Aaron, death on rocket knows where I'm going. He knows where I'm flanking. He knows where I'm going to sit. You can't do that with a random, you know, like every single game, but you're usually just...

Captain Coach (01:56:01.111)
Mm-mm.

Coach Mills (01:56:01.593)
yeah, yeah, just to set him up.

Coach Mills (01:56:14.636)
That makes sense, yeah.

Coach Mills (01:56:26.722)
They're not gonna give you any help, not a smidgen of help, bro.

Brandon (01:56:27.851)
Right. And then you just have bad AMP placements and it's just not fun. I kind of... A weird one I want to see is I want to see a team up with Iron Man because they're so polar opposites. Give me a laser with a little bit of burst damage so my time to kill on supports can be low when I actually go in and dive, but put it on a really long course.

Captain Coach (01:56:47.852)
I thought you were gonna say, I thought you were gonna say jet pack.

Brandon (01:56:51.063)
No, I mean that too. You could give me a midair dash that I have talked about that in the past. Give me a midair dash to give me a little bit of extra mobility. Something interesting.

Coach Mills (01:56:52.343)
you can fly.

Flyin'.

Captain Coach (01:57:01.687)
Can imagine the mind placements if you're able to just kind of like go wherever you like fly wherever you want? And then maybe it's like limited time.

Brandon (01:57:05.783)
Yeah, yeah. Well, I look again, I hate the climb ability right now and I hate how map geometry interacts with my, you know, my tether. It just doesn't work. like, yeah, any extra mobility or a little bit of extra burst damage because her little pea shooter just doesn't, I'm not killing anything like 30, 30 damage per hit and slow projectiles. It's not enough. So

Coach Mills (01:57:23.672)
I have heard of.

Captain Coach (01:57:30.083)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:57:30.386)
What about you, Cap? We got a lot of the changes we've been asking for. Like a lot of them. So what is left?

Captain Coach (01:57:34.879)
Absolutely.

Well, mean, the cheaters obviously I think is now probably one of the biggest issues with this game. And that's always going to be a problem. But it's just like, how can they keep fighting it, dealing with it? I mean, the crackdown on the throwers has been a great step forward for the game. I have noticed an increase in the quality of my games. Mills, I was solo queuing on the weekend.

Coach Mills (01:57:41.784)
Eee, yeah.

Coach Mills (01:57:47.02)
Forever.

Captain Coach (01:58:05.726)
on one of the most team reliance tanks in the game. And bro, I went like 10 and two. That never happens. The games were great quality. Yeah, so I mean, yeah.

Coach Mills (01:58:11.468)
Jeez.

Coach Mills (01:58:15.32)
Just getting rid of the throwers. Yeah, no, yeah. had a thrower, like, because I was doing the Spider-Man games and I had a thrower early in the game. I reported them and then like four hours later I got a message, hey, he's restricted and calm. I was like, all right, cool. That's nice.

Captain Coach (01:58:25.532)
yeah, no, it definitely seems like it's working, which I think is awesome. now, mean, got the balance is going to be a never ending thing. got that. They dealt with the throwers. I've always said the number three is cheaters and we get rid of that. And this game is looking real good. But Brandon also made me think of wanting to team up with a different type of care. I would love to see Hulk get a team up with some kind of healer just to kind of encourage.

someone to pick a healer with him. Cause I feel like a lot of the times that's a problem I run into is I just don't have someone who really plays healer wanting to heal. then it's, makes it, I think some tanks have an easier time with off-roll healers than others. feel like Penny is probably not one of them. Cause she's really self-sufficient, but.

Brandon (01:59:05.497)
Yeah.

Brandon (01:59:09.677)
Yeah, yeah, no, I don't have an issue. You can run whatever you want. We'll roll with it. We'll see what happens.

Captain Coach (01:59:12.792)
Yeah.

Yeah, because I just think they are kind of moving in that direction, like I said, like more towards like increasing the baseline of some people, but also decreasing it at the top end, right? So I think that's the route they're kind of going with the game moving forward. The changes are more tailored now, it seems like, to higher ranks. again, I think we're still looking for more changes, more drastic things. But I think long term, we'll have to see how the CC reduction plays out.

Coach Mills (01:59:38.006)
Yep.

Captain Coach (01:59:44.93)
That is like the biggest question mark for us. I think I'll probably be able to, yeah, go ahead.

Brandon (01:59:48.269)
Yeah, I mean, yeah, just all of us as tank players. Like that is definitely the biggest question mark right now. So.

Coach Mills (01:59:53.176)
Yeah, yeah, the best best kind of mains by the way, clearly the highest intelligence, know, best skill, you know, understand the game the deepest. Okay. yeah. Yeah.

Captain Coach (02:00:00.792)
But, yeah, best looking. But to be honest, I'm optimistic. I genuinely think the Nettys or the Marvel Rivals balance team is genuinely pretty talented. I think that's really partly why I've always said having these discussions in this podcast has been really personally therapeutic for me, is because we've talked to enough people now where I can kind of get a more

Collective I would love to give someone who's more new to the game on eventually but like a more Holistic view on the game and it really gives a lot of context to what? Specifically the devs are going for and again I would love to have a dev on to to talk to but that's kind of where I'm at I think the game's in a good spot and I'm excited about it moving forward I think this patches they hit it out of the park, man

Coach Mills (02:00:49.048)
Yeah, I mean, for me, it's kind of the same. I just want reworks. overall great direction of the game. I think we'll get some more changes down the line that will probably be like what we want more. But yeah, reworks like make some of these characters that are not great or have a hard time fitting comps and just give them more utility change up their whole kit. Maybe even move them into a different role. I think we could easily see that. I think very easily Ultron, BP could be characters that get reworked. I actually would like Torch to be reworked.

Captain Coach (02:00:56.898)
rework.

Captain Coach (02:01:01.39)
Ultron.

Captain Coach (02:01:17.354)
speaking of which, I know we didn't touch on it. The Wanda change was so odd. I didn't really know what to say about that. Did you have any thoughts on that before we closed out? Cause that is one thing I actually wanted to get your guys' opinion on personally. Like she's just better in lower ranks now, right? Like even better in-

Coach Mills (02:01:18.605)
Coach Mills (02:01:28.856)
She's a low elo counter to dive, that's it. Yeah, well yeah, yeah, but I mean she's not gonna be great in high elo, but she's a low elo counter to dive and I think that they're kind of afraid of dive just in general. They're horrified.

Brandon (02:01:37.825)
Yeah. They're terrified, terrified of Dive and Wanda pops out every time, every time because she's the easiest to play.

Captain Coach (02:01:41.654)
Right. Yeah, because I

Coach Mills (02:01:44.896)
I mean, yeah, I mean, and we got, had, Loilo has tons of tools for dive. I mean, they, have the thing. He still has his a million second of no one can use a movement ability and now Wanda's better. We still have Neymar.

Captain Coach (02:01:52.622)
Yeah.

Brandon (02:01:57.261)
But there's no tanks over there, though. You're solo tanking so regularly.

Coach Mills (02:02:01.022)
okay. Well, solo tank thing, because you're not, that's fine. I'm not gonna lie. You don't need to take space. The divers, if they jump into you and they fail their dive, they'll all die. And then you can just walk to point. You don't need to take space.

Brandon (02:02:15.341)
Well, they're diving into supports that don't know how to use their cooldowns directly to support, to deal with two seconds of dive. It's just back and forth there. I think it's a good change for Wanda, but she's not going to be seen anywhere, really.

Coach Mills (02:02:23.672)
Okay, turn on your monitor first. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. All right, all right. no, yeah, yeah. But it makes sense though to me that it's cool, because if the purpose of Wanda is for low elo players to play, that character is obviously not a Celestial Plus, like Stomper, meta character, and she's good at dive, the thing that they're afraid of, it makes sense to buff her and make her more relevant and stronger in some of these low elo lobbies, because...

Captain Coach (02:02:25.493)
No, no, no,

Coach Mills (02:02:50.732)
She can deal. She could deal with some of these divers. You're gonna have a character that randomly is in your lobbies that is gonna be able to chase around a Black Panther or a Daredevil or whatever and that's cool. think that's, it doesn't affect us, but if it helps them, then that's cool.

Brandon (02:03:06.073)
Yeah, I think that's good changes that they need to be able to make is, you know, help people in lower ELOs deal with what they're struggling against without making huge changes at the top. that's very, very tough to do as a dev team in general, because you give, you know, you give gold players an inch with a hero. Dime like, you know, sorry, Eternity and one of all players are going to take that to the absolute maximum and squeeze everything they can out of it. But it was a buff for

super low, low elo people, but it goes all the way up. Something like this, I think is really good.

Coach Mills (02:03:41.08)
Yeah, that that's if you if you don't do this type of stuff with low elo characters Then there's not really a great. I mean, it's just a missed opportunity. You know, that's why they're here. That's why they're here But yeah, okay, Brandon where can people find you? Where can people support you? Where can people watch you? constantly farm hulks and ranked this next season

Captain Coach (02:04:01.198)
Unsubscribe

Brandon (02:04:02.426)
on twitch.tv slash renegretch. That's it.

Captain Coach (02:04:06.21)
Don't follow it. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

Brandon (02:04:09.933)
Hey, look, I'll pick up Hulk too. I will. If I see you in a lobby, can go find a coach. I can spend a week on it. We'll figure it out.

Coach Mills (02:04:12.92)
He said I'll do it I won't hit an exile, but I will do it

Captain Coach (02:04:13.549)
Hey.

I don't know.

I'm gonna do some Freaky Friday, I'll swap and I'll go penny and you know.

Coach Mills (02:04:22.807)
Okay, yeah, he needs to be cats y'all y'all need to do a thing a collab where you teach him penny and he teaches you Hulk there you go boom

Brandon (02:04:23.293)
gross.

Brandon (02:04:29.241)
I'm done.

Captain Coach (02:04:29.292)
You will, as Bruce Wayne said, will share my dread. Batman's my favorite superhero, I'm sorry. Hulk's number two. Hulk don't like Mean Girl in suit. Subscribe, Hulk smash like.

Brandon (02:04:33.049)
hey, you'll share mine. No, it's fine. We can trade on that.

Coach Mills (02:04:33.528)
Bruce Wayne we're quoting DC bro come on you got it It's you have to quote Marvel you have to quote, okay? Okay Thank you so much for coming by Brandon. Thank you guys. I appreciate you go check out Brandon. Please support him Thank you guys subscribe, and we'll see you next time

Brandon (02:04:57.815)
I know. Thank you guys for having me.