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Dr. Stewart and Tyler Sanders delve into the first chapter of Revelation, highlighting John's authority, the Trinitarian greeting, and Jesus' roles as a faithful witness, firstborn from the dead, and ruler of the kings of the earth. They explore the significance of John's suffering and his connection with the readers, and the importance of trusting John's message due to its continuity with early Christian teachings and the Old Testament.
Creators & Guests
What is The Study Podcast?
The Study Podcast is an in-depth look at the Bible with Dr. Paul Wegner and Dr. Alex Stewart.
Tyler Sanders 0:00
You're listening to the study podcast with Dr Alex Stewart on Revelation. I'm your host, Tyler Sanders, I'm here with Dr Alex Stewart, Dean of the Faculty and professor of New Testament at Gateway seminary. We're talking about Revelation. We've gone over five principles for interpretation the past five episodes. If you haven't listened to those yet, you should go back and check them out. Today we're getting into the text. This is kind of like phase two of the podcast, I think. And we're starting right at Revelation one.
Dr. Stewart 0:25
Yes, yeah. So phase one was looking at these interpreter principles. Then Phase two is reading the book of Revelation and just going through it. And we'll look at just sort of the main visionary segments. So not always a chapter at a time, but the visionary sections.
Tyler Sanders 0:38
Let's review the five principles. I know I just told everyone to go back and listen. But let's just do a real quick review of people who did listen, but maybe they forgot. First one, keep the main thing, the main thing. Number two, let the original historical context guide you, guide the reader. Three, recognize repetition. Four is recognize symbolism. Those are two big ones I think that are going to be all over, all over everything we do today, and for the next, you know, several episodes. And then the fifth one is really important, is reading Revelation as Christian scripture. I think it's reading it theologically. Could you tell us a little bit about how we're going to do that each episode, how we're going to approach this theologically?
Dr. Stewart 1:20
So what we do now in phase two is try to put those into practice and as we approach each of these visionary segments. And so they're not all equally, you know, obvious in each vision. But they're all there. And so the first principle is focusing on the original purpose of the vision. So every single part of Revelation is functioning to accomplish the main rhetorical goal of the book and of the author, and that's to motivate, to move, to encourage Christians to be overcomers. And that's how I articulate that. And you overcome in Revelation through some sub themes, you know, worship, witness, repentance, obedience, perseverance. And so you could almost, you could see how those rhetorical aims are threaded through the visions. That each of the visions are guiding us and shaping us, motivating us, giving us the perspective we need to overcome. So that's, you know, that's the evidence, sort of in each visionary section. The original context as well is sort of this meta principle that if we have some proposed interpretation that would have been irrelevant to the first century here, well, it's not likely, right. And so we want to sort of ground-this is a common sense grounding of our interpretations in first century, and things that could have made sense to the original author and the original hearers, and just sort of as a control against excess, interpretive excess. And so that's some that gives us some constraints, some guardrails, as we're trying to understand what these visions are doing and how they're doing it.
Dr. Stewart 2:44
Then the next two chapters, three and four are the third and fourth principles. You know, is recognizing the repetition and then recognizing the symbolism. And for interpreters who miss those points, Revelation becomes very complicated to try to make sense of, or try to get a coherent...find the way through the maze, if you're not able to sort of recognize repetition when it's happening in the visions and also identify the symbolism that's taking place. Reading it literalistically is very difficult to do .And some people try valiantly, but it's doesn't help normally. Then that last one, we talk about the reading it theologically, or as Christian scripture, is both giving attention and into the visions of the theological implications of what's happening in the vision, but also being alert to the connections intertextually with the Old Testament and with other New Testament books. So how it fits within early Christianity, and then as early Christian as a whole is drawing from and embedded within and extending, you know, Old Testament Revelation.
Tyler Sanders 3:43
And I think as we go through each of these principles-this is always going to be a challenge when you're reading the Bible, is like, you have to read it one word at a time and kind of one verse at a time. But these are mainly principles for the whole book of Revelation, and we'll be kind of seeing pieces, how they how they can contribute to this overall interpretation of Revelation. Would that'd be right?
Dr. Stewart 4:05
Yeah, well that illustration the forest and the trees is always helpful, you know, when you're looking at the whole forest, you don't see the individual trees real well, when you're up close, looking at the specific word or sentence, well, you don't see the you know, it's not always easy to get the whole picture, but you always want to be sort of zooming in and out, and checking your specific, narrow interpretations of specific words and sentences across the paragraph and then the chapter, the discourse, the vision and the whole book.
Tyler Sanders 4:33
So what's our first chapter of Revelation about?
Dr. Stewart 4:35
The first chapter of Revelation is, in many ways, like a prolog. It introduces the main characters of the book. So God, Jesus, angels, John, the churches. So it sets the stage, the characters of what's happening. And then it also introduces some of the main themes of it. And what I develop in this chapter in my book, on chapter one, is it establishes authority. And so it's really, it's making the claim; hy this book matters, why we should pay any attention at all. You know, it's not just John's authority, it's God's authority that's lying behind this book. But who speaks for God? You know, who has the right to speak for God, who could be trusted to speak for God? And so John is, in many ways, giving, his credentials here, the divine authority standing behind his message. So it isn't just a message from John, you know, it's not just his voice competing with other early Christian prophets and leaders, you know, for authority in the churches. He's claiming the divine authority, divine commission, to write, and he's writing what he's seeing. And so it's really establishing authority for us as readers.
Tyler Sanders 5:39
There's kind of a three step process you demonstrate in there. I think, right? Of how it gets to John, it's like, and I think it's in chapter one. Yeah, that's it.
Dr. Stewart 5:49
Yeah, t's the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him to show to His servants what's necessary to happen soon. And he communicated it by sending through his angel to his servant, John, who bore witness to the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus as much as he saw. So this sort of chain of relevatory authority from God to Jesus, to the angel, to John, to the churches. And that's why I talk about establishing this chain of authority of transmission, where John's just not speaking, just he's not making this up, or he's claiming not to. There's still that question, that can John be trusted? We assume so as Christian readers, because it's in the Bible. But in the first century, that's not, It's not established yet. So when this is first circulating among these churches, he's one voice, and there are other voices in the churches that he's in conflict with who have different messages to God's people about how to live in the world, how to interact with their communities in ways that would lead to very different outcomes. So John's in competition with other Christian leaders with a different message, with a conflicting message, and the churches are in the middle, right? So they're choosing, do we listen to John? Do we follow his path for us, as he's communicating from God to us, or do we follow this other Christian prophet or prophetess? And he talks about Jezebel, you know, it's not likely her real name, but she's a prophetess, and the shepherd, Tyra and she has a different message from John. And so the Christians there have to weigh this. They weigh the book Revelation and its message against what they're hearing from other Christian leaders.
Tyler Sanders 7:20
Yeah. You know, it's funny. That just reminds me, I... and there's some merit to this kind of perspective, I think. But I was really taken by it when I was much younger, this idea of like, well, in the church today, we need to go back to how the church was originally, like the first century church, you know. And there's something to that, you know, there's something to finding, you know, connecting back to that, like original version, you know. And there's, of course, corruption that's entered in different ways, historically, through the church, and all kind of problems that can lead to but one thing that that misses is like, we do have a lot of confidence in our canon now. That's such an important thing that would have been, you know, could have been stressful or confusing in those times, just because this was kind of one piece in many, and people had to sort through that. And you kind of can see that, not just in Revelation, but in other, you know, small Paul's letters, this idea that there's kind of other streams of thought, and you're having to kind of knock out bad streams of thought.
Dr. Stewart 8:24
Yeah, no, it's great that you bring that up. So we do have this impulse as Christians. That we look to the first center, the first generation Christians, the early church, you know, the New Testament's being written. And we want to recover the truths as it were, the original truths of Christianity. And we want to be in line with those. So we try to clear away all the traditions that have built up around it over the centuries that led us in the wrong paths. But you're right, that what that misses is, from the very beginning, there was conflict, like there was misunderstandings, there was false teaching. From the very beginning, it's like there never was this sort of pure church that was entirely unified and didn't disagree with itself. And so it is interesting, what we're trying to recover. If we say we want to recover that original... well, we generally say we want to as much as possible understand and live by and put into practice, you know, what's taught in the New Testament. So we want that, but when we try to get the boots in the ground and specific physical communities of faith. There is no idyllic or perfect setting for that.
Tyler Sanders 8:25
It was never perfect.
Dr. Stewart 8:27
Never was. And so then, in many ways, our struggles that we're going through are parallel to that.
Tyler Sanders 9:38
Which is good, because that actually makes the Bible completely... it's much more than just relevant, but it's like vital to who we are today. There's like a metaphor you make in your text about God's judgment of evil being kind of like a surgeon removing a cancerous tumor. And I feel like that kind of, that kind of same imagery fits, like that's that's always been true, like, in God's judgment, he's always trying to cleanse the church and us individually, and that that was true, then it's true now, you know, like, it still continues to be true.
Dr. Stewart 10:16
And when bringing that up, in the broader point I'm making in that section of the chapter is about authority again. because we have this sort of, you know, a default...it's a reflex we have, sort of, in the West, anyway, to authority that we mistrust it, we don't like it. We have this visceral sort of reaction that we want to be in charge of ourselves. We react against authority. And because we link authority with oppression very quickly, culturally. So I think Revelation, the point I make is Revelation is a very different worldview where there is an ultimate legitimate authority, that we are. We're called to submit to that we're not, you know as Frank Sinatra's famous song, "I did it my way". That's terrible, like, that's actually, that's a problem, because our way leads to destruction and pain and the sin and the harm we do to ourselves, the harm we do to others when we refuse to submit to legitimate authority. And so Revelation presents a worldview where there is authority and we are called to submit to it. And authority, it is dangerous, it can be misused. SIf God were not good, and that would be terrifying.. To have a God that misused his authority or was arbitrary or capricious or petty or mean, you know that would be terrifying if we had that kind of God.
Dr. Stewart 11:30
So the God in Revelation is the Creator. So that grounds his authority. He created, he celebrated and worshiped as the creator. That grounds the authority that he has over us as created beings, but he's also presented as just and as good as kind. And so the the judgment of evil and then what you referenced there is, I take that from Revelation 11:18 where he talks about time for the judgment, as it were, for destroying the ones destroying the earth. And so this idea that God's justice is not... we get this idea that it's going to somehow harm the innocent, or it's going to be unjust or overbearing or excessive, and Revelation doesn't present it that way at all. So the hints and the comments throughout the whole book is, God's judgment is just, and it's right, and it's removing the evil from creation so that creation could flourish again. And so it's a very different way of thinking of judgment than we often get in our culture. So non Christians love to critique Christianity for justice and not just about violence, divine violence, right? That God is just a violent deity, and that creates violent followers and all this nonsense. And it's precisely because of God's justice of evil that we could leave that in his hands. I think if we didn't have a God that we're trusting to avenge evil, then we would have to take it into our own hands. There's no one else who's going to do it. Revelation enables us to be sort of, to allow judgment to remain in God's hands, and trust that He will do it eventually and take care of it, that justice will win in the end, that evil will not rule forever destroying God's creation and destroying us and our families and our communities and our world, and so that God will do what's right.
Tyler Sanders 13:07
Which is funny, because that's actually a comforting thought, like it kind of gets twisted. I think, critics, maybe whoever, can sometimes twist that so it can feel like some kind of evil violence or unjust violence, but there is actually something comforting about justice, that people who've done wrong, you know, there's going to be kind of compensatory measures taken against that. You know, I think there's something in us that that responds positively to, like, the scales being balanced again.
Dr. Stewart 13:41
Oh, yeah, yeah. And this, this reaction in us that views it as evil, or that turns away from like, we don't want constraints, like this sinful, you know, nature as a word. We don't want the boundaries on our behavior or constraints on what we might want to do. And the idea of God provides those, there are constraints, like, we are accountable for our actions. We're accountable to someone who's above us and more powerful than us, and so we don't again, the sinful bent, the brokenness within us, resists that. We don't like that. But what you're saying that we also know that we need it, I think, even without justice in the world, and the world is chaos and is disorder and is just the survival the fittest and the powerful do what they want to and the weak suffer what they must, as the old saying would be, that's all there really is. Without God as this ultimate one who's going to bring justice, and so it does bring comfort for the oppressed. It brings hope for those who are suffering, and even when we don't see human justice being done, there is this comfort that could come, that God will bring justice and vindication that evil will not have the final word.
Tyler Sanders 13:41
Yeah. So, let's talk about authority a bit more. With John, there's a term in there that came up that I think is a really fascinating term, and I want you to talk a little bit more about it. He's bearing witness. That's so great. It's not quite passive, but it's more passive than, you know, being the originator, or something like that. So tell me about what it is to bear witness.
Dr. Stewart 15:08
Well, witnesses, it's a major theme in Revelation. So Jesus is described as a witness as well. As a faithful witness. Antipas is a faithful witness. You know, he dies for his faith in Pergamum, or had died, and he's described as a faithful witness. Then there's two witnesses in chapter 11, embodying or showing what the church, who we are, and what we're doing in this time. And the witnesses, you just mentioned, they're not inventing the message. So it's not, they're not the authors of a message. They are bearing witness. You know, they're testifying the language for a witness. You know, 'martus' is linked to martyrdom But not- at the end of the first century, that connection is not yet made. So you get into the second century, second to third century, you know, there's all sorts of developments in Christian martyrdom and the glorification of martyrs with this language of witness. But in the first century, it's not that every witness will be a martyr, but every witness must be willing to and know that that might be the result of it. And so bearing witness is often in Revelation linked to dying for your faith. But it's not a technical phrase for that yet. So in the second century, in early Christianity, as it develops, it does become sort of this technical phrase for one who's died for their faith. And the seeds of that are in Revelation, but we don't see it yet being that sort of automatic or technical connection.
Tyler Sanders 16:26
That's a weighty, there's a responsibility then to being a witness.
Dr. Stewart 16:30
Yeah. I think there was significant cost to it as well. So the responsibility, you want to be a faithful witness. So that's how Antipas is described as a faithful witness. And so it's bearing testimony or witness to what you've seen, what you've observed, the truth. So yeah. So that's a main theme in Revelation, and how God's people are described throughout the book, and what our function is and who we are. So our identity, we're witnesses.
Tyler Sanders 16:59
Yeah. Now that's a identity is a good word that actually provides me a good transition to our next little topic here, because you have more reasons why we can trust John. He gives us a little bit further down. And identity is kind of-he...it's a little bit different, but he's identifying himself with the readers. He's like, participating with them in a few different topics or categories, right?
Dr. Stewart 17:24
Yeah. So chapter one, you get introduced to these main characters, and sort of sets the stage for why we should trust John, you know, as a reliable witness. And so it comes in verse nine, you know, "I John, your brother, your fellow participant in the tribulation, and in the kingdom and in the endurance," and Jesus was on the island, which is called Patmos. So he sort of, you know, describing himself a bit more, and he's their brother. So it's that, fictive kinship language in early Christianity, that we are connected in family together, regardless of ethnic descent. So he's connecting that way. Ands this fellow participant with them in tribulation. So you know, that he's not the prosperity preacher on TV, the private jet and the million dollar, multi million dollar homes and all this stuff, while he's drawing money from the poor grandmothers who are sending their checks in or living on Social Security and fixed incomes. And it's not that. Like he's participating with them in the suffering that they're undergoing. And so that's important and that builds trust. And so we trust someone who's suffering, you know, for their witness, in a way that we don't trust people who are profiting from their witness, as it were. So he builds that, and he's a fellow participant in the tribulation, the kingdom and the faithful endurance, or the perseverance that's in Jesus. And so that's one way, again, of building these connections with the readers, with the hearers, with us. That he's with us in this journey, you know, in this conflict, he's suffering alongside with us. He's doing what the book calls us to do. So he's persevering, you know, in the face of opposition and difficulties. So it does help to build that trust, as it were, in him.
Tyler Sanders 18:59
Yeah, and that's an important thing, because he never quite identifies himself, in the text.
Dr. Stewart 19:04
As an apostle? Yeah, no, he identifies himself as John. That's the identification. He doesn't say "I'm the apostle, one of the original 12 disciples." He doesn't make that claim for himself, although the early reception, makes that claim for him really quickly, by Irenaeus and others, make that claim, but he doesn't. And I tend to think there are reasons to think the early church is right, but because he doesn't make that claim himself, that's not the hill to die on, and we don't want to use that as the key to interpreting the book, because it's not actually claimed in the book.
Tyler Sanders 19:41
Meaning what exactly? That appeal to authority changes how we interpret things?
Dr. Stewart 19:47
Well, no, I'm thinking more the connections with the Gospel of John and the letters of John.
Tyler Sanders 19:50
Oh, I see.
Dr. Stewart 19:51
So if you assume shared authorship of all of them, well, the Greek is similar. So there's a similar sort of register in the Greek language. There are some unique things in Revelation, where John and the epistles are maybe more polished even than Revelation is, in some ways, but the level of the grammar is not that different. So they're all great for beginning Greek students. So the simple subsidy participles, and there's a lot of things that are not that difficult grammatically between the Gospel of John, the letters of John, and Revelation. So, I don't see it as impossible at all, that it's the same author, but because the author doesn't make that claim, you know, I don't try to make a big deal of that. But the early church, many early Christians, anyway, seem quite convinced of that, and arguably, that's why it's in the canon, is that connection with the apostle John.
Tyler Sanders 20:41
I have another thing I want to bring up that you mentioned in here is that, as we kind of said, John is bearing witness, but really the originator is God, and that you identify Trinity in this too, right?
Dr. Stewart 20:57
Yes. Well, in chapter one, I mean this strong Trinitarian introduction. So starting in verse four, you know, John to the seven churches in Asia. "Grace to you in peace." That's you know, you wonder sometimes the Pauline influence on letter writing in Christianity, that sounds somewhat Pauline. But if so, it's just that the influence of Paul on early Christian letter writing. "Grace to you and peace from the one who is, the one who was and the one coming." So that's God, the Father, "From the seven spirits which are before His throne." It's likely a reference to the sevenfold Holy Spirit, the singular Holy Spirit, going back to Zechariah, Zechariah four. This Lampstand is the seven lamps, is the single Spirit of God." And then it goes "And from Jesus Christ" in verse five. The faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, the ruler of the kings of the earth. And so this is a Trinitarian greeting. So it's John, and he's giving these greetings from God, the Father, the Spirit, and the Son.
Tyler Sanders 21:48
Yeah, I think that's super fascinating, because that's such a... I know that can be a challenging thing for like, beginning theology students. As you're....the Trinity can be kind of a complicated topic, but we do see it all throughout Scripture.
Dr. Stewart 22:05
Yes, well, the hints of -I think there's a lot in Revelation. And we may have talked about this a little bit in a prior episode, but it gives a lot of the resources that later Christians drew from. I'm thinking of the Trinity.
Tyler Sanders 22:17
Yeah, yeah, that term sounds familiar.
Dr. Stewart 22:19
Yeah. Their identities are never collapsed into each other, that they lose their individual personalities in Revelation, but they're also linked in such intimate ways and unique ways that it sort of forces the later conclusions. How do you hold monotheism together with worship of the Father, the Son, the Spirit, this Trinitarian greeting and later worship, you know, of God and the Lamb and the Trinity tries to do that. Tries to articulate how we're monotheistic while we are worshiping God the Father and God the Son, and then the Spirit's included again in these very close and intimate ways.
Tyler Sanders 22:52
Yeah. Now, as we talk about Son, you have some interesting stuff you say too about Jesus's authority as represented in Revelation one. So maybe we should go through some of that and kind of keep following this thread.
Dr. Stewart 23:05
Well, his authority is, it's not just Revelation but it's all throughout. He's connected with God. He receives divine worship alongside God in ways throughout Revelation, in ways that angels never are. So in terms like an angel Christology, Revelation rules that out, you know, really clearly. He's not just this exalted angelic figure.
Tyler Sanders 23:25
And angels get mentioned a lot in Revelation, like that's not proof by negation or something.
Dr. Stewart 23:31
Well, the two times John tries to worship an angel and he's rebuked very sharply. And at the same time, the visions are showing Jesus being worshiped alongside God. And so, yeah the chain of authority, God and Jesus are linked together as sort of the divine authority behind the message, and then communicated to the angels, to John as the human recipient, and then to the churches.
Tyler Sanders 23:50
So as we talk about Jesus being represented in Revelation, you have three different kind of categories that he's referenced in the greeting, 'as a faithful witness', as 'he who conquered death' and 'one who's currently reigning over the kings on the earth'. So can you unpack that a little bit for us?
Dr. Stewart 24:10
Yeah, yeah, I mean, the faithful witness we talked about earlier in terms of the witness theme. So Jesus is is embodying that. So he is faithfully the witness. He's the one that we're modeling ourselves after, as we follow in his steps. In chapter 14, it says, "we're following the Lamb wherever He goes." You know, his followers. And so that's also in this identity as witness. The firstborn of the dead, is pointing to the theme that occurs throughout Revelation as well, that he conquered death. And so that comes through later in chapter one as well, when John is terrified, he's fallen in his face, and Jesus sort of comforts him. H says, "Don't be afraid of the keys of death and Hades." The idea that he's overcome death. He's been victorious over death. And that would give comfort to John and others as they are called to suffer and they might die. And so they're following someone who's conquered death. And then, of course, death is the final adversary who's thrown into the lake of fire, in chapter 20. And so this victory over death is a significant theme in Revelation that shapes our worldview. It shapes how we think about our future, you know, and even the costs that are associated with discipleship and with witness and with overcoming. You know that could cost us everything. And Jesus and the visions of the book are giving us that confidence that he's conquered death.
Dr. Stewart 25:31
So the firstborn of the dead and the ruler of the kings of the earth is interesting, because when you see with physical eyes, you see, well, Rome is, you know, the emperors, the ruler of the kings of the earth. The direct imperial rule, and then all the client kings and all the provinces. And you know, even the Parthians, in a sense, they come to peace. And largely, it's stopped their hostilities at this point. And so it's like the ruler of the kings of the earth is the Roman emperor. And so this vision is giving us God's perspective on reality, which is different from... you can say, well, it's opposite to what we see with our physical eyes, but it's what's true in the spiritual realm, even if it's not yet realized or seen on the earth. And so I think this is an important point. And they claim that all these visions are making, Jesus is the ruler of the kings of the earth, that he's the king of kings, and he's the Lord of lords, and that's the claim that's contested during the present time. So later visions will describe the dragon, and the Beast, and the beast are deceiving. The first beast is drawing, sort of this universal worship to himself. And saying, who could wage war against the beast? And so this idea that the beast is the one who has the authority and has the power, and so this is, the visions from the very beginning here are setting it out that Jesus is the ruler, but that claim is contested on Earth. It's not evident yet. And this conflict is ongoing on Earth. And so the visions are giving us this perspective, this insight into how God sees things, how things are in reality, in the spiritual realm. And I mean, Apocalypse. Apocalypse itself. Is this 'revelation', this unveiling, it's an uncovering. And so these visions are uncovering reality as it were, for us. So they're unveiling things from God's perspective that we could see more deeply, more clearly than we ever could with our physical eyes. It's sort of setting the tone for these visions, the ruler of the kings of the earth, even as his rule is rejected by many right now. So that's also what we're bearing witness to. So the witness theme throughout Revelation is bearing witness to Jesus as King, as ruler of the kings of the earth.
Tyler Sanders 25:36
Well, you know, and it's interesting too, those three categories. I mean, they kind of seem to me to do... they're doing a lot, they're carrying a lot of weight, and they're kind of functioning in a lot of ways. Because when I first read that, I was kind of thinking, they also all seem to be connected through suffering. The witness, of course, like when we follow Christ in suffering as well. And then, you know, conquering death would be an encouragement to those who are suffering. And I would think, too, maybe it's the same thing-maybe that doesn't fit as well, if they're kind of doing the same thing. But the idea of Christ having authority over all the kings of the earth would also be a comfort for those in suffering.
Dr. Stewart 28:15
Yes. I think it definitely is functioning that way, yeah. To bring comfort, because, again, it's what they're clinging to. You know, marginalized...You think about early Christians in the communities in Western Asia minor where they're economically marginalized, politically marginalized. You know, they have no sort of political, economic standing, or power or security, and John's calling them to a course of life that would sort of confirm them in that. That would, if they don't engage in synchrotistic worship, with trade guilds, with honors to the Emperor-
Tyler Sanders 28:44
There's a cost to all of that.
Dr. Stewart 28:45
Yeah, there's a significant cost to the course of life that John, the book of Revelation, is calling Christians to. That would be increased costs. And so the visions sort of give this pretty bleak picture of what they will take to be faithful, and the kind of suffering that will be involved, but that will be worth it in the end. And so that's where it really comes down to, do you trust John? You know, is John, is he a legitimate prophet? Is he speaking with God's authority? And are we going to bank our lives on that? Because it would cost them. Many of these early recipients of Revelation, if they follow this path of what it means to be Christian, as opposed to the path of the other rival teachers, the Jezebel and other groups that he describing, the followers of Balaam and the Nicolations, these other "Christian" groups that are advocating for different "Christian" I put in parentheses. They're competing for the allegiance of the Christians and what it would mean to be Christian in these communities. And John's vision is more sectarian in a lot of ways. It's more stark, it's the harder path for sure. And so then this assurance that they're following the rightful ruler of the kings of the earth, whose rule and his reign will be revealed at some point, physically and concretely, will be established on the earth. That is the hope. If we talk about Hebrews, the hope is the anchor for our souls, Jesus. And we cling to that, and that'll enable us to persevere.
Tyler Sanders 30:09
Yeah, yeah. And I think that's a really good- it's actually... I think that you've been doing a lot of my transition work for me in this episode. Because I think we're kind of reaching our end here. But that's a really important topic to tie back into, is this question of authority and why this sits at the beginning of Revelation, which I know we've kind of already hit a bit. But having read through this chapter, let's kind of put ourselves in that first century mindset. You buy in, how is this going to change how you read the rest of this book, all these visions?
Dr. Stewart 30:42
So the blessing is pronounced right at the beginning. So in verse three, chapter one, verse three, "Blessed is the one reading and the ones hearing the words of the prophecy, and the ones keeping the things written in it for the time is near." And so that envisions a scenario where this book is written by John, and it's sent by someone who's traveling with it to these churches, originally, one church at a time, and there's someone who reads it. So the Christians in that community, they gather together, and there's a reader, and everyone else is listening to it. So that's sort of the original context. And as they start listening, say for the first time, through this book, they're set out from this very first chapter, again, introduced to the revelation of Jesus Christ, God gave to him [John], they show to His servants what's going to happen. So near future and far future. And he communicated by sending through his angel to his servant, John. And so it's introducing John, and it's claiming that this message is from God, through the angel to John. So that's the sort of setting the stage for why you should listen to this, why they should be viewed.
Dr. Stewart 31:39
And John wasn't, I don't think an unknown figure to them. So I tend to think he was known among these churches already, even if he's not in all seven places at once. I think he's, you know, if he's not the apostle, he's at least a well respected elder, in Ephesis, that's the other conjecture in early Christianity. And so he's not an unknown figure, but he's also not...he doesn't have the authority to just compete with Jezebel, compete with the other prophets, the other Christian teachers, and just win, per se. And so he's presenting this as his message will be contested. He's saying, "This isn't my message, I didn't invent this. This was given to me by God." And then he introduced more of the context. Then we have this Trinitarian greeting. Then he described himself more, he was on Patmos, on this island because of the Word of God, the testimony of Jesus. And then he was in the spirit in the Lord's day. Then he had this initial vision of Jesus in chapter one. So that's sort of the whole chapter is setting the stage for us, again, thinking through the first century listeners, we get this message from God to us, through a prophet John, and just he's describing and setting the scene for us of how he received this message and why we should listen to it.
Tyler Sanders 32:49
Yeah. And I think it's going to set, I mean, it sets us in the same spot as like the original readers as well. But it does kind of set us up, I think, to understand, I keep saying the weight. I don't want to say the weight again, but it does tell us why this is an important book for us to read, why this is an important letter for us to read.
Dr. Stewart 33:08
Yeah, and there is a...the cynicism. There are some scholars who....sort of the metaphor, I think CS Lewis used it, that when you see through, you see through everything. That at some point when you're seeing through everything, you actually lose the ability to see anything. And the idea is you can say, well, John's just manipulating people. He's making this up because he doesn't have the authority on his own, so he needs God's authority, and so he's inventing all this. So you could try to reconstruct a scenario where John's making it up to gain influence in the churches, and at some point, again, you could deconstruct forever. It's not hard to deconstruct, but at some point you're left with nothing for you deconstructed. So as Christians, we're not naive to those possibilities, but we're also looking at it and saying, okay, so how do we evaluate those type of claims? And you could evaluate and say, well, the first Christians knew something of John and his character. So they weren't naive, they weren't simple or stupid, and their whole lives are being put to the test here, of whether that John is trustworthy or not and what he's claiming. So they knew something of him. You know, we talked about him being the participant with them and suffering, yeah. So he's not like the Hamas leaders, right now this that might date this at some point, but he's not hiding with all the wealth somewhere in a tunnel where everyone else is dying and suffering. He's in the trenches with them. He's suffering with them for his witness. So that helps with the message some.
Dr. Stewart 34:37
And then the real clincher for Christians, I think, in the first century and us, is the continuity of the message of Revelation. With what we have in the Old Testament, and with what we have in the New Testament, is the tenor of it, the content of it, is what he's calling us to do. Is it in line with the Hebrew prophets and with the other New Testament apostles and prophets and teachers? The Pauline message, you know, is this the gospel? So, the content of the message? Is it in substantial continuity with early Christian teaching that we have accepted as authoritative, as revealed, and it really is. All throughout there's strong connections, a strong continuity with the message of the Old Testament, with the message of the New Testament, with Jesus, with the apostles, with early Christianity. It fits. And so there's this... it resonates with truth for Christian readers. And so that's another reason where it's like, we're not naive in knowing that there are false teachers who will lie and deceive and do all these things. You know them by their fruit, as Jesus spoke about. And so that's where we have to depend on the first Christians on that. They knew John's character. They knew him as a person. They could evaluate whether his character, his way of life, matched these claims. So sort of we're trusting them on knowing them by his fruit since we didn't know John personally. But the content of the message, we could compare, we could evaluate, we could see, how does this fit with, you know, the other early Christian leaders and apostles, and the Old Testament, prophets, and the message from the from the Bible as a whole. And it fits really well. And so that gives us confidence as well, and treating this as authoritative, and treating John as a genuine Christian Prophet.
Tyler Sanders 36:20
That's really important. I mean, we're about to get into, next episode, we're going to get it into some of the first visions. We're going to get into chapters two and three and get into a little bit more of the the meat of this book. But I think that establishment of John's authority writing this, that is a really important thing for us to stand on as we go forward reading the rest of this book.
Dr. Stewart 36:41
Oh, it's crucial, because we can all agree about God's authority, if you're theistic. But then who has the right to speak for God? Jesus or Muhammad? Well, that splits it really quickly there, in between two major world religions. And then within Christianity and early Christian in particular, who's speaking rightly about God. And so then John, sort of, in this chapter, presents some of his credentials for that. His claim to that. And then the content of the book speaks for itself beyond that. Was he speaking rightly about God as he conveyed these visions to us?
Tyler Sanders 37:12
Yeah, yeah. It's so good, and it's helpful, because today, I think, you have outside of those two world religions, you have a lot of people who may say, I can speak on behalf of God.
Dr. Stewart 37:23
People pop up all the time.
Tyler Sanders 37:24
Yeah, it happens all the time. So this is a pretty critical topic, but it's so good. And I'm glad we got through this. I'm glad we're heading down the right path.
Dr. Stewart 37:32
We made it through chapter one. Yeah, so we've been introduced to the main characters. Jesus revealing this to John and sending this message to the churches.
Tyler Sanders 37:40
And homework for next episode is to read Revelation two and three.
Dr. Stewart 37:44
Yep, that's perfect.
Tyler Sanders 37:45
Okay, I'm looking forward to get into that.
Dr. Stewart 37:47
All right, talk to you later.