Smoked Malts & New Hops: Mike Earle's Beer Revolution

Welcome back to The DC Beer Show. In this episode, Michael, Brandy, Jacob, and Richard delve into the intersecting worlds of craft beer and culinary finesse with guest Mike Earle.

Mike discusses his approach to integrating food flavors directly from beer ingredients, highlighting his love of Sugar Creek Malting's distinctive smoked malts (and everything smoky). The conversation turns to different smoking techniques for both food and beer, with an amusing side mention of Nut Rolls.

Mike shares his tale about unexpectedly coming across a brewery for sale, leading him to start a crowdfunding effort to purchase the 2-barrel nano brewery he aims to rebrand to Wolf and Bear Beer Company. Reflecting on the challenges of revamping the space to meet brewing standards, he then spotlights his crowdfunding ventures through Indiegogo and WeFunder. You can find out more on his Instagram account, @brewmikeearle.

The episode also nods to the experiences that go into visiting breweries, with Mike expressing his intention to create a sense of community at his establishment. The hosts echo support for his campaigns and the drive for high-quality brewing experiences.

As the session wraps up, Michael, Brandy, Jacob, and Richard reminisce about what a great year it's been for DC Beer, and hint at some things followers and DC Beer patrons can look forward to in 2024.

The beers mentioned in episode 180 are Dynasty's Rules of Civility, Lost Generation Brewing Company's Call The Owl, the House Lager from Forest and Main Brewing Company, Port City Optimal Wit, Port City Porter, Liquid Intrusions Cream Ale, and Bearded Iris HomeStyle IPA.

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Creators & Guests

Host

Brandy Holder

This southern girl got a late start in the beer world, but with such a bold and intoxicating personality behind the name, booze was destined to be a part of her endeavors.

Host

Jacob Berg

Jake’s beer education began when his dad brought home a 6-pack of Brooklyn Lager in the mid-90s. It was love at first sip.

Host

Mike Stein

Michael Stein is President of Lost Lagers, Washington, DC’s premier beverage research firm. His historic beers have been served at the Smithsonian’s National Museum of American History and the Polish Ambassador’s residence.

Producer

Richard Fawal

President of DC Beer Media LLC and Publisher of DCBeer.com and The DC Beer Show

What is The DC Beer Show?

The official podcast of DCBeer.com! Everything you need to know about the people, places, and brews that make the DMV America’s best beer scene, including the best local places for eats, brews, trivia, live music, and more! Learn about the latest trends in craft beer – from the beers, to the breweries, to the business – from the editors of DC Beer.

Jacob Berg:
Welcome everybody to DC Beer Show, the last show of 2023. We are at DC beer across social media, and happy upcoming new beer to you. Brandy, what are you drinking this crisp winter eve?

Brandy Holder:
Well, I am drinking Dynasty's Rules of Civility, the spiced wheat ale number 2. I really enjoy this beer. I'm pretty sure there are many episodes of me drinking this beer, but I chose this in honor of, something very special that DC Beer is doing slash has done. And if you haven't heard about it already, then you'll be hearing about it very, very, very soon. Mark of calendars for January 27th. We will be rocking it out out in Virginia at Dynasty. So keep your keep your ears and eyes peeled and join DC Beer. Mister Stein, what are you drinking?

Michael Stein:
I'm drinking lost generation brewing companies called the owl, which is their pre prohibition style pilsner. Last time we were at Lost Generation, just a little while ago, Jared, co owner with Anne, incredible human beings that they are, was having of I called the owl, and I was like, Jared, what do you have? He was like, can I get you a beer? And I was like, sure, what are you having? And he said, call the owl. And so I had 1 and having 1 with him on draft was such a miraculous experience, I had to have it out of the can. But chasing that because it was so smooth and so easy to drink, I'm now having a house lager from Forest and Main Brewing Company of out of Ambler, Pennsylvania. This coming from the craft beer seller, my good friend, Erica, who has never steered me wrong in her years of operation, Delicious lager, Pennsylvania lager. Jake, what are you drinking this evening?

Jacob Berg:
Well, those who know me know that there are 2 seasons in the Berg household. There is port city ops ball wits season, and then there's port city porter season. Of and it is definitely port city porter season. And so I had one of those, but a 7.5. And I thought, well, what's next? And then I thought, well, what's one of the beers I've had the most of in 2023? And so I moved from the dark to the light with liquid intrusions south of DC, cream ale that I also happen to pick up from Erica at the craft beer seller. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And this it's been a mainstay in my fridge, from probably about last April, last March, until now.

Jacob Berg:
It is perhaps our most frequently purchased beer of 2023. If you hadn't had it, it is just a delightful beer flavored beer. It goes well with everything, just really well done. Richard, are you on the show tonight? What are you drinking?

Richard Fawal:
I am on the show tonight. I

Brandy Holder:
was like, back again.

Richard Fawal:
What what's next? I am on the show tonight. I'm I have a refrigerator full of IPAs that I purchased, because my dear friend, Ellen, was in town with ith her husband, Adam. Those of you who've been listening to this show for a long time might remember when Adam and I cohosted the show Way back in 2017, 18, 19, they were in town visiting us, and so I stocked the fridge full of IPAs. So Ellen would always have something tasty to drink, and then we went out every night and hardly drank here at all. So I am, Powering down a Bearded Iris home style from Nashville, Tennessee, home-style IPA, So I've just been drinking a lot of hazy IPAs lately, trying to clear out the fridge, and moving on to the stouts and barrel aged stouts of that are currently being stored in my garage that I will begin drinking when we my my business closes shop for a week, and I can just, of Like, drink all of the 10 to 13%

Michael Stein:
of with Fire All Aid Stout and Big Burly Beers. We have great chatter about barley wine, of with our good friend, Mike Earl.

Brandy Holder:
Hi, Mike. Thanks for coming on.

Mike Earle:
Hey, guys. Thank you for having me.

Brandy Holder:
Of course. I feel like we've known you for a while, but you've never been on the show. But you're on the show tonight because of a very important big thing you got going TWEN. So I kinda wanna jump into that, then we're gonna drill you. Is that okay?

Mike Earle:
Sure. Yeah. Sounds great.

Brandy Holder:
So so our friend Mike has his wonderful dream of opening his own brewery. Mike has been brewing for quite a while home brewing, and he's been in the beer world for quite some time. So, Mike, tell us about your new venture.

Mike Earle:
Sure. So I'm, currently have launched a crowdfunding campaign to help raise of funds to purchase a small 2 barrel nano brewery, currently operating in Manassas, currently operating as Bad Wolf Brewing Company, of with the goal of taking over operations and rebranding it to, Wolf and Bear Beer Company with big focus on, English ales of And, lager taking a little bit of a modern spin on a lot of the classics, using Some of the more up and coming, European hops that are coming down the pipeline, like Harlequin out of the UK and, some of the other of Up and coming hops using some of the newer, malt producers in the region or around the world.

Brandy Holder:
I'm curious. Since you've been in the industry, how long now have you been in the industry? How long have you been with NRG?

Mike Earle:
I I took a little break from NRG to explore the production side of the Bureau world. August would have been my 5th year anniversary, of but I made a comeback a couple of week months ago. So I've I'm pretty sure we're coming up on year number 5

Jacob Berg:
of With energy.

Brandy Holder:
And you home brew as well. And how long have you been doing that? I'm just I'm I'm basically asking the question, how many years of beer do you have Under your belt. And Sure. Why are you just now wanting to open a brewery?

Mike Earle:
I I of Got into beer kind of by accident, if you will. Joining the beer brew club at the Culinary Institute of America while I was a student, Mostly to explore the reason why I didn't like my 1st beer experience, and that was back in, Joining the brew club was back in 2012. So just a little over a decade and, got to do some exploring, not having any intentions of, beer becoming my life's work and passion. But lo and behold, a little over 10 years later, we've grown to beer, consume this, almost every aspect of my life.

Michael Stein:
12 Well, it's interesting to hear the culinary aspect, or your background in culinary endeavors. And, of course, you know, In the US now, we have some great culinary schools. How do you plan to bring in food with of Beer or what role do you think food has with beer? Obviously, you know, I've spent some time with you at Church Key. I've seen you at Blue Jacket. You've overseen some truly, transcendent beer and food pairings. What really excites you in the boudin in the beer and food pairing, and how do you plan to either continue that tradition or bring forth, what you've learned over the last 5 plus years?

Mike Earle:
Of beer and food has, been a love of mine since I discovered that it was even possible to pair beer with food. Really finding those, missing links that either one of the other component is missing and Plugging that hole with either the beer or the food or a combination of the 2. I think continuing what I've learned from my experience at the culinary, through my time with NRG, hosting, guest chefs, of Chef guest appearances at the brewery to do a little food pop up, do a little chef and brewmaster, dinner, if you will. Just Really showcasing the power of what good beer and food and bringing the 2 of those together can really change somebody's life sometimes. 20. And adding in food inspired flavors into the beer itself. I'm not always a fan of adding food things into beer. I like, the food flavors to come from beer of derived ingredients.

Mike Earle:
And to the best of my ability, we'll keep it that way. But if the occasional food product that I can't find that flavor anywhere, results. It needs to come into the beer. That's where what's gonna have to happen. Working with a small malt producer in Indiana called Sugar Creek Malting. They're quickly becoming one of my favorite sources for smoked malts. For those that have had a good chance to talk with me in person, you know I have a deep love of all things smoked, and You can be rest assured that there will be something smoky on at all times at, Wolfenbeer.

Brandy Holder:
You're like an honorary DC beer family because we all love our of smoked beer even though it's sadly unpopular. I I I wish

Mike Earle:
it wasn't so. I wish it wasn't so. No.

Jacob Berg:
I heard Smoked malt, and I just smashed that, donate button right now. I was like, oh, smoked malt. Good. We're in.

Mike Earle:
Yeah. Smoke things are a deep love in mind whether it's food or Beverage, beer, mezcal, barbecue. You name it. If it's smokey, I'm all for it.

Michael Stein:
Well, I'm gonna throw you a curveball then, Mike. Since we're talking all things smoked, smoked salmon, smoked meats, or fish, are you a fan of the cold smoke or of The hot smoke, the warm smoke when it comes to salmon and similar items.

Mike Earle:
I think the different applications of smoke of Really helps to adjust the smokiness. Cold smoke keeps it a nice mellow smoke, while the hot smoke just makes it Big, aggressive, punchy in the mouse, smokiness, and that makes you feel like you're chewing on a campfire in all the best way possible.

Michael Stein:
I threw you a curveball, and you knocked it out of the park.

Mike Earle:
Both both have their Applications. Sugar Creek out of Indiana specializes in, cold smoking, for their malts of with a variety of flavorful fuel sources. And, I fell in love with them through, their lavender smoked malt that Scratch out of Indiana also uses, and, I acquired a small bag of their Applewood smoked malt. Of used it in a barley wine a couple of years ago and have a little bit left. So I'm trying to think of what to do with the rest of it.

Brandy Holder:
With your love of smoke, we love you.

Michael Stein:
Well, I won't ask you my next question then, which is how many sleeves of Oreos fit on a pallet of Nabisco direct shipping, wooden pallet.

Mike Earle:
I'll just leave it out entirely.

Michael Stein:
I won't even ask it or or, you know, I won't go.

Brandy Holder:
Of Oh, Stein.

Mike Earle:
I I hope I don't have to find out the answer to that question.

Jacob Berg:
Well, if you buy malt from BSG of g. In certain quantities, they'll send you this salted nut roll. To Sugar Creek in Indiana, do that do they send you any goodies? Any any foodstuffs?

Mike Earle:
I order the smallest of quantities so far. So

Michael Stein:
Jake, how dare you ask more of of Them.

Mike Earle:
And the

Michael Stein:
highest quality barley possibly produced in their state. That's just you're asking. That's what it is. Yeah. No. We we've seen some great micro malting between, Epiphany at Ocelot, and now Blue Jacket is using both Murphy and Rude And Valley Malt out of Massachusetts. Friend of DC Beer, Andrea Stanley, is a wonderful maltster, And her and her husband, Christian Stanley, who own ValleyMalt, there's no salted nut roll in the palate. You just get the barley and you brew the beer, man.

Michael Stein:
Like, You don't need all the salted stuff.

Jacob Berg:
Yeah. A couple of

Mike Earle:
months now. I I I think you can buy a case of, salted nut rolls on Amazon for Right around $25. So if you wanna do it yourself. Alright.

Michael Stein:
Sneak a little you the little, sneak

Mike Earle:
sneak a little surprise for yourself in the pallet.

Jacob Berg:
I think my my local Annie's hardware store sells them next to them. Neehigh and AL 8 and other old old timey sodas. They got, you know, it's like nut roll, Clark bar, mallow cup. All things

Mike Earle:
that we can see

Jacob Berg:
in one of my stouts, right?

Mike Earle:
Salt and nut roll inspired stout or bar probably more barley one

Jacob Berg:
Yeah.

Mike Earle:
With a little smoky twist.

Jacob Berg:
Wonder if you could talk a little bit more about the European hops and where they're headed since I think, like, we know that in the Pacific Northwest, in the southern hemisphere, particularly, like, New Zealand, Australia, all the rage, hearing much less from Europe.

Mike Earle:
Sure. I I came across a couple of new hop varietals, mostly focusing on the UK right now, thanks to, the craft beer channel. A couple of new hop bridals that have started to come onto the market, big enough that us small home brewers can get our hands on of are Harley Quinn and Jester and Ole Kana. And you're seeing a lot of crossbreeding between those classic UK hops and, of some of the newer American hot fried oils to really, create the best of both worlds. You get that Nice woodsy herbal base note of the UK genetics, sprinkle in a little extra fruitiness from, the American genetics. And you have a whole new dictionary of flavors to work with, with the new up and coming cop varietals.

Brandy Holder:
Why did you, look out further out in Virginia instead of closer? I I'm assuming it's Because of real estate and money. But, just curious if you if you know the owners of Bad Wolf. Or

Mike Earle:
The money in real estate definitely is a big role in choosing which brewery to take over. Of I came across a listing on Facebook Marketplace, and, hey, on the home brew equipment side of things, there's a listing for a brewery for sale at a Really, really crazy price. And it's like, reach out to the owners, and they're like, yep. That's the price.

Brandy Holder:
That's interesting. Yeah.

Mike Earle:
Weird happenstance. I Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't in the market for buying any new equipment for myself. But of Out of curiosity, I scroll through the marketplace listings and see, hey. What's up on that I don't necessarily need, but, hey, you never know.

Brandy Holder:
Does it of the crap out of you since all like, opening a brewery. Yes.

Mike Earle:
Yeah. It's definitely a daunting idea in the task. The work that's going to be needed to bring the current facility up to a place where I think and believe that it needs to be brought up to, standards wise for, on both the brewing equipment side as well as the hospitality front of house kind of Giving it a homey, like, welcoming feel.

Michael Stein:
So in terms of standards, obviously, you've worked for You've worked for other half. You've worked for the neighborhood restaurant group at places like, Church Key, Birch and Barley, and, of Blue Jacket. And and all of these places have extremely high standards. And then outside of these places, You know, DC browse, Penn Quarter porter won a World Beer Cup medal for their porter.

Jacob Berg:
Mhmm.

Michael Stein:
Atlas's of Silent Neighbor has now similarly won a a a GABF for a GABF medal for their stout. So DC is is kind of, You know, catching up to some of these other beer cities that have been on the map for making extremely high quality products, how do you aim to bring such a high Quality to a place not that far from DC, but yet a a place in Virginia that already has, you know, Dozens of of gold medal or World Beer Cup and Great American Beer Festival medal winning breweries. How do you aim to do that?

Mike Earle:
Of Thanks. Setting the gold standard for what I believe my beer should be coming out as, through quality ingredients, quality processes, proper sanitation and cleanliness, having as proper glassware as possible, of And just providing that hospitality forward, feel that I have come to know and appreciate, of from my time with NRG and Hope, as well as my time at the culinary and just carry that forward through. Alright. My focus at the culinary was pastry. And, one of my French pastry instructors' favorite motto is do it nice or make it twice. You do it the right way. Make it come out good or dump it and start over. And I have a very similar Philosophy for beer.

Mike Earle:
As much as it hurts to dump a bad batch of beer, sometimes you have to do that. Yeah. It hurts. It's Very costly, but you gotta do it sometimes.

Michael Stein:
Yeah. It's, it's one of those things. I don't wanna talk shit on anybody, But we did a DC beer tour of Northern Virginia. And, you know, let's say we drank a dozen beers, maybe a half a dozen, probably should have been of dumped or or checked via QAQC before release. Right. And it's it's really tough because we're just talking with a a a brewery owner yesterday, And he was saying, you know, you never get a 2nd shot at a first impression.

Mike Earle:
Right.

Michael Stein:
And it seems

Mike Earle:
so Exactly.

Michael Stein:
Now, Yeah. As we approach 10,000 breweries or maybe we've reached 10,000 in the US, that seems so important, that first impression.

Mike Earle:
Yeah. There's There's a lot of beer, and there's a lot of beer really close to where you live odds more than likely. And if there's a bad brewery of That is closer to where you live. Mhmm. You're probably gonna walk or drive a little further to the slightly better one for the better beer rather than the Short easy commute back home.

Jacob Berg:
I'm gonna do that tomorrow as luck would. So, Mike, So much of the experience around beer now is not necessarily the beer as it is of the on premise experience. And I'm wondering what are some of your, like, favorite breweries to visit and why, like, when what you hope to take away from that in opening up your own space.

Mike Earle:
I think my favorite breweries that I like to visit, Locally, I'm a huge fan of Silver Branch up in Silver Spring. Their homey, the camaraderie, the home feel. Internationally, visiting, Diranka, the slightly grungy but still hospitable 12 Atmosphere at Deranken in Belgium. That was really fantastic. Another really great close to home, out in Loudoun County, of Blackhoof. They're probably one of my favorite hospitality feeling, kind of like that neighborhood feel. Perfect brewery experience of I've developed in my head as kind of a cross between, traditional British pub and, this of little countryside, Belgian cafe just outside of Brussels that it's like you can of Experience any number of different activities going on inside that establishment. You could go in for trivia night 1 week.

Mike Earle:
You could go in for A pop up barbershop, appointment. You you never know. A little little bit of everything. And I kinda like having that community feel. And, like, It's a place that you wanna go to for wide number of things, not just for the beer.

Brandy Holder:
How's your campaign going?

Mike Earle:
We just launched it. By the time listeners are hearing this, it will be, 2 or 3 weeks by now. Currently heading a 2 pronged approach, of 1 through Indiegogo, more rewards based campaign, and also one through WeFunder, which is a little bit more equity based, Giving folks who want to contribute a little bit more options whether, or not they want the rewards focused, which, I've got rewards of set up kind of like, brewery, mug club membership where you get discounts in the taproom, a beer every quarter, beer for your birthday depending on the levels. The more equity focused sets things up where if you wanted to contribute, you get a little piece of the pie on the ownership stake.

Brandy Holder:
So everyone listening, go support our friend, Mike. He's the nicest, and he makes good beer. And, we should all support him and give him a chance. Right?

Jacob Berg:
Of Thank you, Mike, for being the only person to recognize me when I walked into the brew deck at other half. Let's go talk to Ben. 12, and evidently, mass mass chaos ensued as I walked around. I went, oh.

Brandy Holder:
It was.

Jacob Berg:
I went, oh. I'm like.

Mike Earle:
12. I'm one of the worst people with, like, remembering names, and I'm like I'm I'm very unlikely that I'm remember your name, but I'm like, of It's Jake. He does DC beer things.

Jacob Berg:
So

Mike Earle:
if he needs to come through doing whatever he needs to do, he can come through doing whatever he needs to do.

Richard Fawal:
Of Mike, tell everybody where they can go to find like, give us a a website or URL or something folks can go to find.

Mike Earle:
Best place to look is my personal Instagram. I'm posting everything there. I've also started an Instagram for of Wolf and Bear. My personal Instagram is @brewmikeearle. Best place to keep an eye on things, keep everything up to date there. Both links for both crowdfunding campaigns are Live in in the bio.

Brandy Holder:
Well, you guys heard it here. Go support Michael Earl because you should. Because, you know, $5 here, $10 here, $15 there. You know? It'll everything helps, man. Thanks Thanks for coming on, Mike.

Mike Earle:
Just wanted to say thank you for having me. By all means, please, if you are in a good position to contribute to the campaigns, Please do. It would be much appreciated if you are not in a position to do so. I totally understand. If you can't, please share with all of your friends, family, neighbors, Enemies, pretty much everybody you know.

Brandy Holder:
Will do. Cheers, Mike.

Mike Earle:
Cheers, guys. Thank you so much.

Brandy Holder:
Fellas, I wanna say That, in my personal opinion, I think 2023 wasn't too shabby. I mean, We were all busy and stuff, but that's good, I guess. Right? Like, I feel good about 2023. Had some great beers this year. We went to some great breweries. We made new brew friends. We've seen, great beer things happening. And, I mean, it shouldn't stop.

Brandy Holder:
Right? I I feel good. What do you think?

Michael Stein:
Yeah. I'm very hopeful for 2024. We're looking at Urban Garden Brewing to open a brick and mortar, which is huge. We just had an article recently about Right. Proper opening, Echington in 2024. And there's been a lot of speculation about closures. We're not gonna comment on any of those closures, But if you follow us on dcbeer.com, you'll see our comment, critique, criticism, And quite frankly, pumping up and boosting of all those who we thought did an excellent job in 2023 and those we're looking forward to visiting in in 2024.

Jacob Berg:
If you look at Phil Ronco's beer in review, which is a real labor of love for his part, and thank you to all the breweries and beer stores, who participated. One of the things that pops out, you'll see a few names just repeat. And so I wanna shout out to Jared Nann at Lost Generation. You know, we think the world of you, but your peers, your fellow brewers also think that. I think the same is true for Josh Chapman and Jen over at Black Narrows. And so a nice way to give everybody their flowers, check out the 2023 beer review over at dcbeer.com. I'll add that in addition to these aforementioned openings. Hopefully, we'll see the public option come back in some form or another.

Jacob Berg:
The brew system is still there, so it would be great to see that. We're probably gonna see more from Atlas as well. I don't know if we'll actually get, Atlas Alexandria beer in 2024, but we could. And we could also get the Atlas Brewpub over at National Airport, which I think is gonna be pretty pretty cool. Be nice to fly in in and out of there and have an actual local option. So 2023, yes, of maybe outside world. It's a dumpster fire. And in 2024, there will be an election, and hopefully, it won't be the last election, and we will will be needing a lot of of year for that.

Jacob Berg:
Here's hoping for big things.

Brandy Holder:
I want to second the kudos and love to lost gin. I know I know it seems like DC beer is we always mention them, but I will say they have been So I mean, not only are they the kindest people ever, but they've been so good to us. Like, They they hosted a happy hour for us, and we're we're pretty much giving DC beer members free beer. I also wanna give a huge thank you shout out, to the NRG Group and to Greg Engert because they NRG has been fantastic of to us this year as well. We love we've loved having all of the beer shares that we have had and super thankful of To Greg for inviting us to Snally. I mean, that was huge. That was I mean, we were all giddy about that for so long, and What a great experience, and, I I just wanna say thank you to all of our beer friends and, obviously, all the ones that we haven't missed yet, all the Wright of Proper. Like, Brie over at Right Proper and, but really truly to those who have super supported DC Beer this year, We love you.

Brandy Holder:
Thank you.

Michael Stein:
Yeah. It's it's been a wild ride, for DC Beer now that we've been around for a decade us, and we love those who have been true friends to us within the industry. And we wanna say a massive thank you to of The single friend, the follower on social media, you visit our website, you're a patron, we love you. Thank you so much for showing up for us. We're really hoping to grow our followers. You know? Social media, absolutely. DC Beer, the podcast of site, but we wanna come see you on Patreon. Come visit us.

Michael Stein:
We hope to extend more grateful invitations, like, exclusive events at lost generation, of At Blue Jacket at Wright proper Brooklyn, we had some wonderful shares. We had the women's brew culture club at at Brooklyn as well. We've had some incredible events in 2023, and that's what gives us hope for 2024 despite the absolute shite state of the world right now. We're trying to incubate positivity, and we're we want you to follow us. We want you to come along with us. So please Please check us out and and, you know, give us your support. We know we're supporting those in the DC beer scene, And we will forever continue to do so.

Brandy Holder:
Thank you to our Patreon members.

Richard Fawal:
They're the folks who make it possible for us to do things like have beer shares, To do this show. To do these special things that you you'll be hearing more about in January. What are our big plans for 2024? Let's talk a little bit about what DC Beer is gonna be bringing to the people in this upcoming year.

Jacob Berg:
12 for starters. What are

Brandy Holder:
we collaborations? Oh.

Jacob Berg:
Yeah.

Brandy Holder:
I was gonna say

Jacob Berg:
we'll be bringing the people a beer for the people in, January. Hopefully, we'll be doing some more podcasts and other type events, perhaps with NRG. You might see some more collaborations, along the lines of what we did in December, both with Metro Bar and of lost generation. Stay tuned. That's all, folks. Have a happy, healthy, and safe New Year's. Happy New Year. Happy new beer.

Jacob Berg:
We are at DC Beer across social media, and we'll see you in 2024. Thanks so much for listening.

Mike Earle:
Of