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In a world that feels increasingly chaotic, uncertain, and hard to make sense of, Realms of Curiosity with Sarah and Wendy offers a different kind of conversation.
Drawing from shamanic practice, psychology, and decades of firsthand experience with non-ordinary reality, Sarah and Wendy explore the deeper forces shaping our inner and outer worlds—from intuition and consciousness to deception, transformation, and the shifting nature of truth itself.
They don’t claim to have answers. Instead, they follow curiosity into the unknown—questioning, exploring, and inviting you to do the same.
Because in times like these, curiosity might be one of the most powerful tools we have.
Welcome to Realms of Curiosity. Listen in as two friends explore the mysteries of the Universe through the lens of their otherworldly experiences.
Sarah:Hi, Wendy.
Wendy:Sarah,
Sarah:hello. You're such a seductress.
Wendy:Oh, if I had a dime for every time somebody told me that!
Sarah:So what are we doing today? What are we talking about?
Wendy:Well, I don't know. Did you have any thoughts on anything that's been polluting your brain?
Sarah:One of the things I was thinking about that we could adventure into is thinking about intuition and the feeling of intuition when you get a sense suddenly or the numbers line up or, you know, all the different things that come into our day where we recognize maybe a message coming from the larger consciousness or whatever we think about in those terms. But then I started pondering because sometimes we get an intuition and then we get like a little fear after. It's like, oh, am I supposed to be paying attention to this? Am I nervous about something that could potentially be showing itself to me? And I wondered how do we distinguish between intuition and what happens when there is a little fear connected with it?
Sarah:What is that fear? Is it the ego mind that's coming in to sort of diss the intuition? Anyway, those are the things I was thinking about this morning. I don't know that I have a specific plan of it, but I don't know. What do you think what do you think about intuition?
Wendy:Well, I think that's a great topic, actually, because it's something that comes up a lot certainly with myself, but with the people that I worked with too.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:Because we all crave that.
Sarah:What? We crave to...
Wendy:Intuitions to to be able to have like a connection with our intuitive selves And Yeah. When it works, it makes life easier. Yeah?
Sarah:Yeah. I think for most of us, I mean, there are I've also met people who have intuition, but they're very fear based, you know, that that, oh, that's a message, you know, that I shouldn't do the thing. And, you know, there's a lot, like, a lot of different kinds of intuition that people seem to
Wendy:Well, yeah, maybe that's a good play. What what do you think intuition is? What's your take on what it is?
Sarah:Well, that's a good question.
Wendy:It's an easy one, obviously.
Sarah:I have many different thoughts of what intuition could be from the simplest to that there are spiritual beings in the cosmos that are, like, just giving us a sprinkle of what we should know, what we should think about. Then I have other more complicated notions of multiple timelines, everything existing, everything everywhere all at once time. And if that's the case, I wonder if intuition is that I'm somehow, like, jumping from timelines a little bit, getting a message from a different time. I mean, I don't know what intuition is. What do you I mean, of them are very they're fun to think about, but I don't know.
Sarah:I'm very obsessed with the whole timeline thing. Manifestation with timelines, like, all of it makes me feel very excited.
Wendy:You know, it's fascinating stuff, and it's also really, yeah. It's a headful.
Sarah:It's a headful.
Wendy:When you when you start thinking about that. I mean, intuition to me, I maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but I've kind of reduced it down to messages that come directly from our higher minds or our higher selves.
Sarah:And So you think your higher mind is a single entity?
Wendy:I well, I that's that's a whole other conversation. But, no, I think it's the collective of all the identities.
Sarah:Tune in next week. Yeah.
Wendy:I think it's the collective of all of the identities that I am. My higher mind is living many lifetimes at the same time.
Sarah:So everything everywhere all at once kind of situation.
Wendy:So when you talk about am I receiving information from another timeline or whatever, it could be possible, I would imagine.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:And then how our higher minds communicate with us is not humans talking to one another, like you and I using words, language. No. No. It uses, to me, symbolism. So it communicates through our dreaming, nighttime dreams, our visionary experiences through intuition.
Wendy:I think that's a big way in which it communicates really important information through synchronicities. And those intuitions, from what I have gathered, it's kind of like a chunk of information, at least based on my experiences, I should say. It's a chunk of information that just sort of lands in my awareness, and it's in a package. Yeah. And it just unfolds, and I just have a knowing or an understanding at that moment.
Sarah:It's also very much what happens in journeys. It's not like things are unfold like if you're working with a spirit guide. It's just like boom, and you get the download of information very often. Not always, but very often, it's the download of information.
Wendy:Yeah. And I think you referred to it as telepathy Yeah. Last time.
Sarah:Yeah. Exactly. Did I?
Wendy:Yeah. And so that's that's probably what it is. I mean, I Yeah. I never considered it telepathic, but if it probably that's probably what it is if if you're gonna define it. Telepathic.
Wendy:It's like a it's a thought transference or Exactly. A concept transference. I think it's more accurate. Yeah. Maybe Say what you A thought transference or a concept transference.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:It it may be human to human. It's more thought transference. But higher self to human, it's a concept transference.
Sarah:Yes.
Wendy:And or journeying in the shamanic realms connecting with a helping spirit. They're giving you a concept transference rather than a thought transference, maybe.
Sarah:What do you think a spirit is?
Wendy:What do I think a spirit is?
Sarah:Yeah. Like when you say
Wendy:Helping spirits?
Sarah:Helping spirits. What what do you think that is?
Wendy:That's that's how to put that into words, and I probably will fuck this up. But Give it a shot. Like, off the top of my head? Yeah. My wee head?
Wendy:Your wee head. My wee little head. I would I would say that it's like a maybe it's like a-
Wendy:How to put it into words? It's an identity that maybe has a shape and a form, but that identity is comprised of consciousness that has its own sort of intelligence and memories and experiences.
Sarah:Separate from our consciousness or joined to our consciousness in some way?
Wendy:Probably both. Yeah. I mean, depending on what you're focused on, that gets into the nature of reality and at least my understanding of it. It's like depends on where your focus is. If you're doing the, I wanna drop all the boundaries and experience oneness, then, yeah, that kind of nirvana experience that a lot of spiritual seekers are looking for, then, yeah, you would have access to all of it.
Wendy:And there would be no difference between. But if you are tuned into the shamanic realm, which is a different experience, a different focus Mhmm. Then there would be the illusion of separation and the illusion of identity? Yeah. Or is it an illusion?
Wendy:I don't know.
Sarah:I don't know either.
Wendy:I don't wanna start sounding too Buddhist because I don't know enough about that to be able to
Sarah:Yeah. That
Wendy:yeah. Anyway, I don't even know if that sounded Buddhist. That shows that I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.
Sarah:You know, I used to think of when I first started studying shamanism, I used to think of the spirit realms as as their own identity. But as time has gone by, I've started to feel that each of these presentations is designed to from the oneness consciousness, it comes in the form it comes to kind of, like, interest me to you know? But it could take any form. You know? It's like my very first spirit guide, like, a million years ago, was a raven.
Wendy:Nice choice.
Sarah:Yeah. And I was like, Oh my god, it's a raven. Like, Oh, I love ravens. Well, of course, you know, I love ravens. And it's not always the case that people receive their first power animal or spirit guide or meeting.
Sarah:Sometimes people don't want those. They they reject them. But I I don't know if it has more to do with, like, their own kind of negative self talk that's going on or but mostly, when spirit animals come to people, it's something that they welcome. So is it is that just the the face that's put on it, is it designed to appeal to us? But it could be anything.
Wendy:It could be energy, life. It could be. Yeah. I mean, I think of, like, the animals that show up for clients, they can be a surprise. And to me, I'll look at that as an invitation Mhmm.
Wendy:To like, that particular animal friend wants to take them in a new direction. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:So, I mean, yeah. If you if you start really, like, doing this deep dive like you're doing, it can get really complicated.
Sarah:I think the longer I do this, the more questions I have.
Wendy:Well, the interesting part is, like, as you're talking about, like, you you you're you're almost talking, if I'm understanding you correctly, like, there's a mirror or reflection of yourself that you're perceiving in the dream time that's that's more like a projection
Sarah:Well, like
Wendy:of what you need to see. Is that what you're trying to say? Or you're
Sarah:I don't know. I've started to see it, which is not what I learned originally in core shamanism, which is where my training was. I do now have this sense of just this collective consciousness that we are part of. But because we're so ego box driven when we come into our world, our society. We're taught we're individual.
Sarah:I'm Sarah Finley, and you're Wendy. And we have this individualistic perspective. But the longer I'm around, I just kinda see it as this unity consciousness and that we can access it in ways that our human brain understands.
Wendy:Right. Yeah. Because we're human.
Sarah:Because we're human.
Wendy:And it has to be that way. Because I don't think you can be human and live in that unity consciousness all the time.
Sarah:I don't think so either.
Wendy:You wouldn't function. I mean, that's Oh, maybe you
Sarah:would. I don't know.
Wendy:I don't I don't well, I mean, what would be the point of being human then if you were living in that state all the time?
Sarah:Like the zen dudes that live in a cave and just, you know, like, all the time.
Wendy:Yeah. But love
Sarah:what they're doing?
Wendy:Well, but are they I mean, I guess that gets to the point of why do we come here then? Why why do we have this experience? Why do we incarnate? Because my take on that kind of monk lifestyle or the guru who hangs out in the cave for thirty years and meditates and yeah. Maybe they evolve their spiritual practice and they have this nirvana experience, but then they come back to the rest of the world and they do really fucked up things because they don't know how to be socially interactive.
Wendy:Like, you hear about all these yogis who sleep with their followers and get caught up in money stuff and all the bells and whistles of being human and all that that spiritual evolutionary stuff. It's like, There's like this weird disconnect. So I yeah. I don't I don't I don't I mean, because to me and we didn't talk about this, but the it it like, in this setting anyway, the upper worlds are where you can access that unity consciousness. Mhmm.
Wendy:And so why not just stay there then instead of incarnate here if that's what you wanted to experience? But to get a taste of that while you're in this human experience, the possibility of that kind of is a really humbling reset, I think, for us. And it's a really positive thing that we can have because it shows us that we're we're we are all connected even though we have this experience that feels very separate. And I think it's by design that we have this experience that we're very separate for the purpose of evolving. But the the higher mind is what's wanting to evolve from my perspective.
Wendy:I mean, nobody has to buy anything I'm saying ever.
Sarah:Well, me neither. I mean, we're just talking about
Wendy:Yeah. We're just bullshitting.
Sarah:Yeah. Well, no. Not bullshitting. I think we're talking about the things that we think about. You know?
Sarah:Because we like to think about these things.
Wendy:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, that's what I mean by bullshitting. I know. Is that weird?
Wendy:You know?
Sarah:I just didn't want if somebody is
Wendy:In a negative disparate no. I'm not. It's not disparaging. It's not a disparaging bullshitting. We're not it's I'm not don't mean to make light of it.
Wendy:It's just more like we're just we're just we're here spitballing about this stuff based on our experiences and I mean yeah. I think. So so you're seeing that it's all kind of this, what you're calling unity consciousness, and yet we have this so there's this collective, and yet we're having this individual experience. Mhmm. And then you start out by talking about intuition.
Wendy:And so that's our connection to our, at least from my take, to our our our souls or our over soul, our higher self, whatever you wanna call it.
Sarah:Mhmm. And
Wendy:and it comes in the form of, like, information or content or whatever that like, important stuff. There's a reason why an intuition happens usually. It's it's usually you're you're not getting an intuition about, like, which cereal to buy. That's more of, like, your body's leaning in a direction or You're not gonna pull a tarot card about, like, what serial do I.
Sarah:You know, there are people like that. It's like they can't do the same.
Wendy:That sounds really sad.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. Pulling a tarot card. I've known those people over the years since, like,
Wendy:Yeah. But true like, I get the question you're asking sort of maybe is what's the difference between true intuitive guidance and something else? Like, you talked about fear or wishful thinking. I think that's what gets really tricky is like thinking.
Sarah:That's a really yeah. Exactly. That's kind of the opposite one to fear, isn't it? But it's the same situation.
Wendy:Yeah. Exactly.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:Or or some people who will see they'll start because they are really maybe fear based. They will look for synchronicities.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:They'll start making connections that aren't there, kind of like conspiracy theorists.
Sarah:Yeah. It means when you go down that road, it can be very tempting to make connections that aren't there.
Wendy:And then how do you know, though? How do you know what's a true connection versus a not true one? Yeah. I mean Otherwise known as a false one. Yeah.
Wendy:No.
Sarah:It's true. It's really true. Yeah. You know
Wendy:So what do you how have you figured it out? Like, what's the difference for you?
Sarah:Oh, I don't know. I just asked the question. I don't have the answer. It's just, like, I think my brain likes to be like, let's ponder this for a while. You know?
Sarah:And I ponder it, and I come up with a bunch of possibilities and then I don't necessarily know the answer. That's just the way my brain works. So the question is asked and then I'm collecting data as I go along. And then I think, oh, I know. It's this.
Sarah:And then I'll collect more data, and I know it's this. And I don't know. I don't know that I ever really feel it's this. I don't think I do. I keep moving.
Sarah:You know?
Wendy:Yeah. Hear you. I think it's so freaking tricky. And I think all of us struggle with this, especially those of us who are on a spiritual path and wanting to kind of develop our intuitions. Yeah.
Wendy:It can get when you start thinking about it, it gets muddy as hell. It was actually part of my advanced shamanic training. One of the journeys we did was trying to discern the difference between true intuitive guidance and what's coming from your ego?
Sarah:Yeah. The ego or the subconscious.
Wendy:Yeah. They're two different things to me. Yeah.
Sarah:Me too.
Wendy:Yeah. So the in do you wanna hear what happened in my journey? How I what what came to me?
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:And this may make this much sense. It may make no sense whatsoever, but this is what came to me. I was shown a construction site. Uh-huh. And and I was shown the construction crew building a stick frame house.
Wendy:Like, this whole crew was building this house and putting it together. And I had the understanding as I was viewing this that this was the byproduct of my mind. Like, my mind's interference. It was creating a scenario. It was building it.
Wendy:Mhmm. And then a modular home completely intact drops out of the sky and sits there on the site. And that's intuition. It's fully formed. It's already there.
Wendy:Mhmm. I know what it is. Mhmm. And then the other really important piece, it didn't feel like it's like, intuition isn't it's not filled with effort. It's just there.
Wendy:Yeah. And it's a knowing. It's an understanding. And the really key part that my invisible friends pointed out to me was that there's no emotion attached to an intuition. It's just whereas when it's wishful thinking, there is an emotional attachment That's to interesting.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:But all of us are are having to come to that kind of, like, how do you distinguish between, like because you can talk yourself into or out of anything. Anything. Yeah. You can if you have an intuition and you don't particularly like that, then you can talk your because you're gonna have an emotional reaction to the intuition. Yes.
Wendy:That'll kick in, but there's a bit of a delay. Yes. I don't know if that makes any sense.
Sarah:Yeah. It totally does. It totally does.
Wendy:But it's it's like this this thing that you're constantly working on trying to Mhmm. I guess, discern.
Sarah:Yeah. I like that word discern because that's that's truly what it what it is.
Wendy:And I think the trickiest part of discerning intuition because I think our our higher minds are constantly feeding us information Yeah. To help make life a little bit easier Yeah.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:Is that our minds are so fucking noisy Yeah. And our emotions are so fucking noisy that it's really hard to hear or perceive your intuitions because of all that noise.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. Why are we so noisy? What what why why that design?
Wendy:I think because we're not very highly evolved, Sarah. I don't think as a species.
Sarah:Think for yourself.
Wendy:I am. I'm not. Yeah.
Sarah:No. I was kidding. You know that. And no, it's true. So those who live on the planet who are trying to understand from these higher self realms, Is is it part of the evolution?
Sarah:You know? Is it part of the human evolution to be putting these pieces together, or or is it just random? You know?
Wendy:Makes me wonder about our ancient ancestors and how in tune they must have been
Sarah:Oh my god.
Wendy:Of the way they lived, because they were immersed in the natural world
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:And how much their intuition probably helped them to survive.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. I have a theory that's based on absolutely nothing.
Wendy:Uh-huh. I love those kinds of theories.
Sarah:Of the Neanderthal people. I feel that their communication was much more telepathic than the who became the leading human beings.
Wendy:Oh, yeah?
Sarah:Yeah. I I feel that our telepathy capabilities, that we can actually thank them. I think it's something that's ancient in us. I mean, think about it. If you don't have language skills, to the extent that we have language skills now, How do you communicate with the other hunter or the or the
Wendy:Right. Well, that leads me to the telepathy tapes. The Yeah. The nonverbal autistic kids.
Sarah:Exactly. Or
Wendy:the people who don't have a connection to their physical bodies. Yeah. And so they can't communicate verbally. And they have to yeah. But they find other ways.
Wendy:You just accommodate for your limitations.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, that's the question. Why why are some people more telepathic than other people? You know?
Sarah:Why why are they finding this with I haven't listened to a lot of that podcast, only the first few episodes, not because it's not interesting. It's just time and whatnot. But yeah. I mean so we we started this with the question of what is what is intuition, but but, really, what is what is telepathy? You know?
Sarah:What is what is receiving messages or communicating with plants? Mean, when I lived in Vermont, I did a lot of plant and tree communication. And, I mean, they are very communicative. It is we who don't pay attention.
Wendy:Right.
Sarah:If you touch a plant or connect with a plant if it is not doing well and you say, What do you need? Like, you find out. It's just like that. It's not even complicated.
Wendy:But what how did it come to you? How did you know what it needed it? Okay. So there you go. Yeah.
Wendy:Yeah. And and what state were you in when you were connecting with the plants and the trees?
Sarah:What state? Yeah. Just open open state, like allowing. Mhmm.
Wendy:Would you say you were more quiet Yeah. Internally?
Sarah:Yeah. Very quiet.
Wendy:Yeah. So that noise I was referring to
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:Yeah. That's why I think a lot of people who teach intuitive skills, they recommend meditation.
Sarah:Yeah. To quiet all the distractions.
Wendy:Yeah. Meditation. No.
Sarah:Me neither.
Wendy:Don't want
Sarah:my skin to build up my body.
Wendy:I'm not good at it. Me neither. My brain is not wired for it. No. Sorry, folks.
Wendy:I've tried.
Sarah:But journeying
Wendy:is But it's more engaging. Yeah. Exactly. That's why.
Sarah:Exactly. Yeah. And why do you wanna turn it off? Why don't you just find a different station? That's interesting.
Wendy:Well, mean, I know Hank used to refer to shamanic journeying as an intense form of meditation. It's still a form of meditation, but because you're altered, it's just way
Sarah:more fun. Yeah. I don't I keep I keep threatening to add meditation to my I meditate when I there's a Buddhist center that I go to that's quite close to my house here, and they have a hour and fifteen minute thing every Sunday. And it begins with a meditation and ends with a meditation. And I keep thinking, okay.
Sarah:This is gonna be good for me. And I love the talks. I love the monk. He's so brilliant and so funny, and he he gives these great talks. But the meditation, I'm just like, oh my god.
Sarah:It's killer. Yeah. I wanna get out of here. You know? Yeah.
Wendy:Pencils in the eyes. Yeah.
Sarah:The brain is very, you know, moving.
Wendy:Yeah. It's a discipline.
Sarah:It is. Yeah. It is a discipline.
Wendy:Yep. Say fuck that. That's what I say.
Sarah:Fuck that discipline. We don't want your discipline. I do. I would like that discipline. And
Wendy:Yeah. I would I would love to. I envy people who are able to do that.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:I really do.
Sarah:So do I.
Wendy:But yeah. Quieting the interior world seems to be the way to do it. And then yeah. If if yours if your higher mind, your higher self really wants to communicate something to you, This client was just talking about this recently. They will make it very obvious.
Wendy:Yeah. Like, it'll be like, you know, bells and whistles and, like, a parade, that kind of Yeah. Obvious.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had a But I was journeying last night with this drum circle, and a piece of the journey was was so interesting. And it began with I won't get into the whole thing, but it began with this thought that I was having about a podcast I had listened to sort of as I was entering the journey state.
Sarah:And this minister had spoken about Satan as being internal to us, not like an external beast, you know, with the horns. It's it's it's an internal aspect of us, and
Wendy:he novel idea.
Sarah:Yeah. He thought Satan is the same as our ego mind. And I because Satan the root of Satan is like a disruptor or
Wendy:a The deceiver.
Sarah:The deceiver and exactly. Last night, I was I was thinking about that as I was starting this journey, and then I took it a step further, and I thought, well, if Satan is internal, so is God. And my journey went into this incredibly beautiful, very meditative feeling that I was having as I was connecting to the idea of God as an internal aspect of myself and consciousness. And I really went into this beautiful, beautiful, almost nirvana kind of
Wendy:So there's your unity consciousness. Yeah.
Sarah:Yeah. Exactly. So wouldn't that change things if human beings were able to start perceiving Satan and God as internal, you know, so we wouldn't have to kill each other quite so readily? Or you know? I think it would make such an interesting change
Wendy:for Yeah. Yeah. That would definitely make an interesting change. Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:Well
Sarah:I don't know if we're allowed to talk about these things. Our little podcast. I don't know that we are allowed
Wendy:Allowed to talk about what? The
Sarah:God and Satan. We might get people
Wendy:Well, I think there's stop.
Sarah:Still free speech.
Wendy:I think that still exists too. No? No. That's I guess we'll find out.
Sarah:Not looking good. Yeah.
Wendy:Well, in theory, it still exists.
Sarah:In theory.
Wendy:They haven't abolished the First Amendment yet.
Sarah:Yeah. Boy. Anyway, let's not get down that. That could lead nowhere good.
Wendy:Alright. Well, this was fun.
Sarah:I don't think we answered any questions today at all.
Wendy:Well, are we supposed to answer questions? I thought we're just having a conversation.
Sarah:Yeah. We're just having a conversation.
Wendy:Yeah. So good job.
Sarah:Yay. We got it.
Wendy:Talking about shit.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:Yeah. That interests us.
Sarah:Yeah. That's the intention. Right?
Wendy:Mhmm. Alright.
Sarah:So alright.
Wendy:Guess I'll see you next time.
Sarah:See you next time.