Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
In this episode of the Sandwich Generation Survival Guide, host Candace Dellacona welcomes Jason Brown, a legacy strategist and entrepreneur. Jason shares his compelling life story from being a young entrepreneur in California to dealing with the tragic loss of his wife. He emphasizes the importance of financial literacy and having essential conversations about legacy and end-of-life planning. Jason introduces his innovative 'Legacy Card Deck,' designed to facilitate meaningful discussions on topics such as medical decisions, financial planning, love, and personal legacy. Jason's profound personal experiences and insights make this episode a valuable resource for anyone navigating the challenges of the sandwich generation while searching for the tools and insights needed to prepare for the future and create a lasting impact.
00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
01:12 Jason Brown's Early Life and Entrepreneurial Journey
04:41 Meeting His Wife and Starting a Family
07:24 A Life-Changing Diagnosis
18:06 Navigating Grief and Finding Purpose
23:05 Creating the Legacy Card Deck
34:20 Advice on Medical Power of Attorney
41:24 Expanding the Legacy Conversation
46:45 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
To learn more about The Legacy Card Deck, visit https://thelegacycarddeck.com/
00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
01:12 Jason Brown's Early Life and Entrepreneurial Journey
04:41 Meeting His Wife and Starting a Family
07:24 A Life-Changing Diagnosis
18:06 Navigating Grief and Finding Purpose
23:05 Creating the Legacy Card Deck
34:20 Advice on Medical Power of Attorney
41:24 Expanding the Legacy Conversation
46:45 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
To learn more about The Legacy Card Deck, visit https://thelegacycarddeck.com/
Subscribe to the When What If Happens podcast at https://www.youtube.com/@whenwhatifhappens
Follow Jason and The Legacy Card Deck on social media:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jasondowntownbrown/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/legacycarddeck/
Creators and Guests
What is The Sandwich Generation Survival Guide?
Welcome to The Sandwich Generation Survival Guide, where we explore the challenges and strategies of navigating life caught between work demands and supporting our loved ones while maintaining our own well-being. Join us in this dynamic podcast series as we uncover the complexities individuals face balancing multiple roles in the modern world. Our host, Candace Dellacona, shares personal experiences and professional insights to guide listeners through this complex journey.
Candace Dellacona: Hello everyone.
Welcome to the Sandwich
Generation Survival Guide.
I am your host, Candace Dellacona.
I am so glad to welcome today
Jason Brown, who is a legacy
strategist, an entrepreneur,
single dad, straight out of Texas.
I am so thrilled to
welcome you here, Jason.
Thank you so much for joining me.
Jason Brown: Absolutely.
Thank you.
And just so I don't have all the Texas
people coming and going crazy on me.
I am from California, but I
am here residing in Texas.
This has become my new place of home.
'Cause you know, these Texans,
man, they will go crazy if you
claim their, I haven't, I don't
think I've been here long enough.
Candace Dellacona: Well, I'm just gonna
say off the bat, once they hear your story
and hear what you're about, I think Texas
is gonna wanna claim you for its own.
So that is my bet and that's why
you are on the podcast today.
And we're gonna talk all things legacy.
We're gonna talk about how you
got here, surviving the sandwich
generation and all that good stuff.
I wanted to just start from the beginning,
Jason, for you to share a little bit with
me of who you are and how you got here.
And I'm so excited to talk about
the Legacy card deck series.
You and I have had a couple of
conversations now about your
mission and what you are set forth
to do with this entire endeavor.
But let's start at the beginning.
So tell us who is Jason?
Jason Brown: So Jason Brown is
definitely a god-fearing man, first
and foremost, husband, a father,
entrepreneur, and someone who cares
deeply about providing knowledge and
information that can help build bridges
and break cycles through information.
I think that in this culture,
in the society that we live in
now, there is a lot of noise
Candace Dellacona: Yeah,
Jason Brown: there's a lot of information
those informations don't actually help
build the necessary bridges that you
need to get from one side to the other.
Candace Dellacona: I think that's so true.
So tell everyone where you
started and how you got here.
So you're native of California?
Jason Brown: sure.
So I'm a native of California and I
will just give the brief overview.
My story in life in itself is a
book, but so kicked out of the house
at 16 and I had a child on the way,
which is my daughter who is 23 now.
at that time I was expelled
from school, and I was trying to
figure out life at that point.
During that time, obviously me
and my mom and our relationship
just wasn't best, which is funny.
I actually called her two days ago and I
was like, I understand and I forgive you.
I don't condone the methods, but
trust me when I say I understand.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah.
Yeah.
Jason Brown: what?
I was like, just know I understand.
But during that time both of my
parents were both entrepreneurs.
My dad owned restaurants and I like
to say in Los Angeles, he had the
first food delivery service ever.
I used to ride around with him through
LA and he had a van and he would
deliver, meat and frozen seafood to
people's houses, and we would go and
get out and talk to his customers
and hang out there all all day.
And then my mom, was entrepreneur as
well, started off in Mary Kay in Avon,
and then she went off to in insurance
and ended up building three brokerages
and selling those insurance agencies
which she still has her book of
business and still does some work today.
Candace Dellacona: Wow.
Jason Brown: So growing up seeing that,
that was the only thing that I knew.
And I spent my twenties actually in
television and fashion in Los Angeles.
started off designing clothes, and
then I transitioned into television.
And then I got to a point where I'm just
burnt out from the entertainment industry.
I want to make a change.
I was like, but I'm too far in.
I've already gone too far.
And I'm now knowing my life
hasn't even started yet.
but I ended up making a change into tech.
during that time, I met my best friend.
And I remember, I always like to say
we had literally the notebook story.
She worked for my cousin
who was a publicist.
at that time when I met her,
the first time I met her, I
said, I'm gonna marry her.
And two years later we got married.
And during that time we got
married and she was like, I'll
go wherever you want to go.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah.
Jason Brown: was like I
wanna start this business.
And it was the business, which is still
today, it's called Pocket Chefs, and
it's a tech business in the Bay Area.
we actually do meal prep and batch
cooking for households that have 2.5
people or more.
So the main focus was moms and
pregnant women that were looking to get
assistance with everyday cooking needs.
And we moved to the Bay Area
and we started that business.
And as we were just having the
conversation, the first three months
we spent, just working on that.
And we were living out of our car
and we were living in Airbnbs.
as I was saying, those were some of
the best and joyful moments of my life.
I think that that gave me the opportunity
to really connect and really learn learn
each other and grow with each other.
fast forward to 10 years, we, my wife,
she started off at Sephora and then ended
up going from Sephora to Tacha and then
she got poached by a consulting firm
in the Bay Area and then went to eBay.
then from eBay, during that
time, during the pandemic, we
actually left and moved to Mexico.
we moved to Mexico and we lived
in Mexico for about five months.
And that was my first time ever spending
anywhere outside of the country.
So we were there for Halloween,
Thanksgiving, Christmas, new Year's, eve.
Candace Dellacona: So you're newly married
and you're making it as a founder, having
that entrepreneurial spirit, obviously
it's something that was modeled for you
by your parents and you've taken it on
and made it your own, and you've forged
the way with your life partner, your wife.
Jason Brown: yeah, it
was , she was my missing link.
Candace Dellacona: Mm.
Jason Brown: She was my
missing link for sure.
And the man that she made me
into wasn't because of the things
that she taught me, or it wasn't
because of the things that she did.
It was because of my
love that I had for her.
It made me want to be better as a man.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah.
Jason Brown: So I had to do the work
to be able to show up in a way that I
wish, obviously the man that I am today
is the person that she always saw.
But I couldn't have done anything
that I've done without her.
Candace Dellacona: And so that's
a good transition to talk about
what happened next and what ended
up being a transformative moment
in your life and losing her.
Jason Brown: sure.
Yeah.
So once we got back from Mexico, we had
relocated here to Texas and we started to
buy property out here and we bought our
first home, but we were building that one.
So as we were building that
one, we had another investment
property that we were living in.
then 2022 New Year's Eve, we
got the keys to our house and
we moved in and celebrated New
Year's Eve in our brand new house.
Candace Dellacona: Amazing
Jason Brown: Maybe six months
into that, she got a job offer.
She was actually hesitant to go.
But she got a job offer from Nike and
they wanted her to be the senior director
of creative operations for Jordan.
Candace Dellacona: Amazing.
Jason Brown: She was 34 years old.
And I just told her, you deserve
this and this is something that
I think would be great for you.
So we left to Portland and we lived in
the house it took two years to build
and we lived in it for six months.
And then went to Portland.
And as we were in Portland, as I was
getting stuff together at that house,
'cause we're gonna rent it out, I
show up and she said, Hey, guess what?
I'm pregnant.
And I said, well, great.
no, I was actually thrilled.
So in 2023, our son was born April 3rd.
And it was great.
We had the baby shower,
everything was fine.
I remember on the porch, on New Year's
Eve and we were celebrating and in 2023
in April, I remember we were sitting on
the couch and we were watching Star Wars.
And the baby was in between us and we had
our little EarPods in the, so we didn't
wake 'em up we were like, normal night,
gonna get up, go to sleep went to sleep.
And we woke up that morning and she
was like, I just, I have a headache.
I was like, okay.
So we called the midwife and she
was like maybe you're dehydrated.
And she's yeah, I just have a headache.
And I was like, you know what,
let's just go to the emergency room.
So I have the baby downstairs
in another part of the house.
And as I'm bringing the baby upstairs,
her aunt was staying with us at that
time, and she's walking her downstairs
and as she gets to like this middle
platform, she just falls into a seizure.
And we don't know what's going on.
Hand the baby to my aunt and I
catch her as she's falling down.
And then I call 9 1 1.
We end up taking her to the
emergency room, we call the doula.
And the doula was like, maybe
it could be preeclampsia.
Maybe she's dehydrated.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah.
Jason Brown: they are running test on her
and then comes back and they do CAT scans.
And then they say, we found a mass on
the right side of her brain, and it
could be scar tissue from the seizure.
We're not sure, but we're gonna,
take it to the cancer association
and see what they say about it.
So that was two weeks after, and
then they finally came back and said,
okay, we can confirm that it is a
tumor we need to operate next week.
So she went into brain surgery and came
out and, we talked to the doctor and
he was like, we're just gonna have to
watch it over the next, few years and
you may have to have another to resect
it and just to go in and cut it out.
And we were like, not a problem.
And he was like, it's a grade four cancer.
But we removed 99% of it and
she was doing everything fine.
And so we were going on a trip
for Mother's Day and we went
to the oncologist that day.
And when we showed up to the
oncologist, she was like I don't
know if they discussed this with you.
And we were like, you could say whatever,
we've talked to the doctor, say whatever.
She's in the notes they upgraded it
from a grade four to glioblastoma.
And we were like, what does that mean?
She was like, it's the highest
grade tumor and you have pretty
much 18 to 24 months to live.
Candace Dellacona: What
a devastating blow.
So you're the high of, high, hitting
crazy what we call success, right?
In this country where you've made a
go of your company and she is sought
after as this incredible creative force.
She's now been brought into this
incredible company to do her thing,
and you're have your first child,
you're over the moon and your son is
healthy, and you are walloped with a
diagnosis that in the end is terminal.
And so where do you go from there, Jason?
Jason Brown: So as I said, and
as I stated before, we are both
believers and we walk with God.
And she is really a different,
like when I tell you a warrior
woman, she is a warrior woman.
we just started walking it out and having
to figure out what this looks like for us.
And we weren't sure and we were praying.
And I remember when she went into
her second brain surgery I was like,
okay, we were actually gonna go to
Mexico to a cancer center out there
that they deal with peptides and
it's like a immunotherapy type of
treatment that they do during that time.
And I remember the treatment was like
$40,000 and she just, she will research
the flip the world over and research.
She was like, I'm sure.
I just felt unsettled.
And I remember I was sitting there and she
gets a call from her boss who is the vp
and she was like hey because the president
of Nike called her boss and was like,
Hey, we just wanna make sure that she's
getting the best help that she's getting.
And she was like, did you connect her
with, and I forgot the gentleman's name,
but he was one of the VPs at United.
So he connected us with him.
We had a great conversation and
he was like, listen, I have a
friend at Duke and his name is Dr.
Friedman and he's the head at the
Brain Cancer center over at Duke.
I would just love for you guys to have
a conversation with him and he connected
us, and we had a conversation with him
and he was like, listen, I would love to
have you if you guys would love to come.
And this was in North Carolina.
And so we actually flew down and
went to dinner with him and his wife,
and we talked with them, and we felt
like that was the right move to go.
And when I tell you like, it
doesn't matter what came up,
he was like, no, we can fix it.
And that's why she loved him is
because always spoke from solutions.
And at that time we got there and going
through treatment and even the tumor
started to shrink and we came back and
there was a point where she started
to lose mobility in her left side.
she became completely paralyzed
from her left side down.
So at this point in time, I'm taking
care of my son who is seven months,
years old, and I'm taking care of
my wife, who's completely paralyzed.
She's, I'm having to take her to the
bathroom, I'm having to change his diaper.
And this is like every two hours.
I'm going back and forth with
Candace Dellacona: Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jason Brown: And then a couple
months in it, he's like, we just need
to figure out, we can reverse it.
And we woke up one morning and
we were laying in the bed and
I could tell she was tired.
And we just started playing a worship
song and my son was there and she was
there and then got her up, took her into
the living room and I was looking at
her I can kind of see her about to go.
'cause at this point I can tell when
she was gonna go into a seizure.
So I immediately called, 'cause I had
said her name, but she didn't respond.
And then she started
looking off to the left.
So I called 9 1 1 and they came and
then I called the medical assistant.
'cause I couldn't get ahold of Dr.
Freeman at that time.
And she was like, this seems
like a different type of
seizure you should take her in.
And so we took her in and I'm thinking,
she's had seizures before this is gonna
be, and I was like, sweetheart, I was
like, if you can hear me, like blink, and
she would blink and I was like, I love
you and I was like, you're gonna be okay.
And we took her in and come to find out
there was hemorrhaging in her brain.
They, finally got Dr.
Freeman on the phone and that was the
first time where he was like, there's
nothing more that I can do at this point.
Candace Dellacona: So up until that
time, you were both optimistic and I
just wanna point out, I don't know if
you noticed this, but often when you
speak about your wife, you're talking
about her in the present sense, which I
think probably speaks to the fact that
you feel that she's still with you.
I think that's really, really beautiful.
I don't know if you
realize you're doing that.
Jason Brown: I don't she
changed, she changed my life.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah.
Jason Brown: she changed.
And I tell people, like the person that
I am today and the people like they
see today as, as a, the businessman
and the father she changed my life
and she loved me unconditionally.
And she was the first time that
I've ever felt unconditional
love actually looked like.
It felt
Candace Dellacona: yeah.
Jason Brown: so that's why, for me, when
I get a chance to talk about her, it makes
me, it does help settle my spirit because
I get to share how amazing, she was.
But yeah, that's when he had said,
there's nothing more that we can do.
We'll try one more time to
try to reverse the bleeding.
then they finally came back and
were like there's nothing else that
we're, we can't stop the bleeding.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah.
Jason Brown: then seven
days later she was gone.
Candace Dellacona: And you go through all
of that as a young person, like I said,
feeling like you're on top of the world.
You're both, otherwise healthy.
You're left as a single dad
without your best friend and
your partner and essentially
the inspiration for all of this.
And how do you get to where you
are today in finding what your
purpose is as a legacy strategist?
Where did that start?
Jason Brown: So during the time,
actually when I was in, and this was
back in Mexico, was like, you know what?
The first chef that I ever hired,
who's now my business partner, who
runs, excuse me, she's an operator.
She operates the day-to-day
for the business now.
I was like, if I can't make you
into me, I'm just gonna shut
the business down 'cause I don't
want to be an operator anymore.
Like I, my heart was being pulled
into other areas, which was just doing
a deep dive in financial literacy.
Candace Dellacona: Right.
Jason Brown: That's
where my passion became.
and I started to dive really deep into
truly understanding all of the aspects
of financial literacy, from securities
to real estate, to life insurance.
And each one is its
own different vertical.
Even to the point where I went
and got my real estate license,
just 'cause I wanted to understand
how it actually truly worked.
And at that point when that happened,
I had different businesses, we
had built a portfolio, so I was
managing everything on my own.
But in that moment, I realized, as I
was going through that season, there
were a lot of conversations that
we had and then there were a lot of
conversations that we didn't have.
And it's not the fact that I didn't
know the answers to 'em because
I understood who my partner was.
We just didn't really
have those conversations.
We had the conversations about life
insurance and we had the conversations
about, we didn't have conversations
about do not resuscitate orders.
Like we didn't have conversations about
what do you want your funeral to look like
or What would you want at your funeral?
Everything that was done is because
I knew she always called herself
a butterfly and she was going
through her metamorphosis stage.
So I had like a, like 500, like little
butterflies and like envelopes that
were released and I had flowers,
bouquets of butterflies on her
and, but we never talked about,
did you wanna be buried in la?
Did you wanna be buried in, Texas?
Do you care of where you're buried?
And then, when it came to, if something
was to happen to both of us, we
didn't talk about power of attorneys.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah.
Jason Brown: We knew who we would
want to raise our kids, but we didn't
really talk about or put things in
place, if something was to happen.
So there were so many conversations
about things that we have
explicitly, but we had generally.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah,
Jason Brown: So I understood
Candace Dellacona: sure.
Jason Brown: how to navigate those
situations and I realized at that point
I was like, when it comes to financial
literacy, like I am very comprehensive
when it comes to understanding from
different verticals, especially
understanding from life insurance.
'cause my mom from business to
even investing in the whole nine.
I realized if I know all of this
and there's still conversations that
I didn't have, I can only imagine
what conversations are not being had
with people who don't have the full
domain knowledge in these verticals.
Candace Dellacona: yeah, so let's talk
about that . And you said so much there
as it relates to your ideas about living
and dying and having these conversations.
So starting with that, when you love
someone, whether it's your spouse
and your life partner, the mother of
your child, or a parent or a sibling,
and you're trying to be optimistic
for the outcome and you're trying to
follow along with that optimism, it's
really hard to start a conversation
about where you wanna be buried.
If you are rooting for them, and
you are saying to them, I believe
that this doctor is gonna fix you.
And the hope and the competence that you
had at that in that doctor at Duke, that
he could somehow overcome glioblastoma.
So I totally understand why you couldn't
have that specific conversation, and
I'm sure many of our listeners do too.
I've been in that situation myself.
So knowing that you wanna be optimistic
and you don't even wanna go there, it
makes sense to me why you wouldn't have a
conversation about where someone's remains
would be, or the send off they wanna have.
And then, dovetailing it with
financial literacy and talking
about what would happen next.
Again, all in the lines of
you're not here anymore when
you're trying to be optimistic.
Those are really hard
conversations to start.
And that is what I love so much
about your message, Jason, and why
you and I connected when we had
these conversations about Legacy
and starting the conversation.
Because part of the reason why I started
this podcast is the platform, right?
To provide community and answers
for questions that I know people
have and resources like yours.
So I wanna jump into like how
the Legacy Deck came out of that.
So why don't you talk about making
the transition from, you have a super
successful business and you are struck
with, I'm sure, unimaginable, grief, love
for your son, all of the things that could
have been, and then you try to take that
pain and that grief and put it into this
project, which has become the legacy deck.
Jason Brown: sure.
Yeah.
I think that, and even just to close out
that last part we were just talking about.
You're right.
It is very difficult to have those
conversations, but necessary versus
difficult are two different things.
Candace Dellacona: Totally right.
Jason Brown: And I get that it
was difficult, but was necessary.
And there was somebody that I interviewed
on my podcast and she was in the military
and we connected and I was like, oh,
I need to actually talk with you is
because she said it her, she's my platoon
sergeant says, 10 outta 10 people die.
And I was like, you're right.
I was talking with somebody
and I said the same thing.
And I said 10 outta 10 people die.
And everybody plans.
It's just what do we plan?
And I've seen my father passed away.
My grandma passed away
and my wife passed away.
I've seen the chaos happen my
mother and my aunt because of the
lack of conversations that they
didn't have, even with my mom
being in the insurance business.
And then I've seen the lack
of conversations that when
my dad passed away, I didn't
know anything about anything.
And then I wanted to change that
when I got married, I wanted to have
different type of conversations.
I remember I was sitting there and I
was sitting in the chair and I was like,
there has to be a way to make these
conversations a lot more lighthearted.
And there wasn't anything that was
out there that I had in my hands to
help me have these conversations.
'cause these conversations, I should
have been having these conversations
with her family, because we were okay.
the chaos didn't really come within
my family and with me and her because
we were very clear and they understood
our structure and how we did things.
But I turned into Public Enemy
number one in that hospital.
And of course I get it, everybody
processes things differently, but they
didn't have tools to process or tools
to have these conversations about the
things that needed to be put in place.
And I started to go down this path
of, how can we make this easier for
people to have these conversations?
Because what happens is when we have
these conversations, we feel like we're
being attacked, or a family member
feels like they're being attacked.
But if there was a way to have the
conversation where everybody's answering
the same question and everybody's
having the same conversation, then
it relieves ability to say why
are you asking me that question?
I'm not asking you the que, I'm
asking everybody that we're all
answering the same question.
And that's where I decided to really
sit down and together a tool called The
When What If Happens Legacy Card Deck.
And this card deck was designed
to help people have end of life
preparation conversations with ease,
less chaos, and with structure.
Because the conversation never stops.
It will always be had and it will
always be evolving, but having the tools
to at least start the conversation,
I can guarantee you that there's
more chaos that happens at funerals,
for some reason people think that's
the time to have the conversation.
Candace Dellacona: I agree.
Jason Brown: But I understand.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah, I do.
And it's the worst time,
Jason Brown: yeah,
Candace Dellacona: right?
Because when somebody is gone and you're
grieving, you are never your best self.
Jason Brown: sure.
Candace Dellacona: You just never are.
And let's talk a little bit about
not having something tangible.
That's a really important visual, Jason,
where you're sitting there thinking about
what tool you could provide to other
families to talk about legacy, to talk
about long-term care and money and love,
and all of the things that are wrapped up
in one's life and their role in a family.
And so you come out with the When
What If Happens, and this series,
which is really remarkable.
Truly.
I've been in this business 23 years.
I talk about death, dying,
and disability all day long.
I think about it, I think about
these things all day long.
And I think I shared with you, you
were kind enough to send me a deck of
the cards after we met the first time.
And I brought the cards to a pub here
in New York City when I met up with my
husband for a cocktail and a night out.
And it was a really,
lighthearted night out.
But I'll tell you, we looked
at these cards all night.
And I just wanna share with the
listeners how much care and the
structure, the infrastructure that
you put into the cards and give our
listeners a visual about what it is.
So it's an actual deck of cards, guys.
And what Jason came up
with are these categories.
Categories are so important.
He starts with the icebreakers,
the getting started, and then the
subcategories cover things like
money and medical decisions and
your final wishes and legacy.
So let's talk about that, Jason, like how
you came up with the categories and the
questions and where you sought input from.
That also was like a thought that
I had and I was like, gosh, where
did he come up with that question?
So tell us a little bit about the
actual production of these cards and
how you came up with each of those
topics and where you sought advice from.
Jason Brown: The funny thing is I didn't
actually seek advice from anyone because
as I was doing the research also, like I
realized that as a widowed man at my age,
I'm in a very small percentage of men
Candace Dellacona: Yeah.
Yeah,
Jason Brown: in this world.
Candace Dellacona: Sure.
Jason Brown: And when it came to the
actual questions of what I actually
came up with, as you know, 99% of people
have not even had these conversations.
Candace Dellacona: So true.
Jason Brown: So the questions that
I actually came up with are topics
and questions that me and my wife
would have on a regular basis.
We talked about legacy, where
we talked about finances.
Before we got married, we both
took a, it's called Prosperity 1
0 1, and her name is Peggy Buck.
And she does this financial workshop
where this was before we both got married.
We actually put in and learned how to
actually manage and budget our finances.
And when it came to what type
of legacy do we wanna live?
And she always talked about how she
wanted her dad to be remembered and
how his legacy was important to her.
So as I started to talk about and
come up with these questions, these
were things that I said, if money
wasn't the benefactor of creating your
legacy, what kind of conversations
or what topics do you need to have
in order to lay the foundation?
Because oftentimes what happens is
without having the conversation about
how you want your legacy to actually be
framed, if you don't write your legacy,
somebody else is gonna write it for you.
When it came to the financial side
of it, we were very open about what
our expectations were for our son and
even when it came to our resources
and when it came to investments,
like we talked through those things
regularly because it was just something
that was super important for them.
Candace Dellacona: But you
recognize that it's rare to have
these in-depth conversations.
It's so admirable that the two of you
endeavored to take those things on at such
a young age together, but I think the vast
majority of the people don't, which is
why your cards are so important, because
you two figured out a way through your
connection to have these conversations.
But I wanna give our listeners kind of
an example of some of these questions
that I found really, really helpful.
And so within the subcategories,
in terms of your deck the love and
legacy cards are really interesting.
And I think one of the questions
that I love and how you frame it
for the card is What's your most
sacred memory of this family?
And I think why that question was so
interesting to me is because when a family
is talking about the most sacred memory.
Sometimes we can have a different answer.
Often we do.
And so hearing from our family members
what was important and what was sacred
to them within the family can give
new meaning to situations maybe that
you hadn't thought of in that way.
And the way that you Frame these
cards is, you ask the question and
then the follow up on the bottom is
Why this matters, Why this matters.
Because it brings reverence and
clarity to the emotional history.
And so all of these cards provide you
with these really provocative questions
and an opportunity and a platform.
To go back to your point before
Jason, when somebody would
say, why are you asking that?
Why are you asking that question?
That's why.
Jason Brown: So I believe that that's
why when it comes to those prompts that
you're talking about, it's important
to give context to the questions that
are being asked, because oftentimes
without the actual knowledge of how
this is framed, and it translates
into legacy, we just think that these
questions are attacking us because
we don't know the answers to 'em.
And that's why it was important to put
those prompts so you can understand the
context of why the question is being asked
and why this question actually matters.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah, it's
providing like the spirit in
which you wanna ask the question.
The cards though really
run the gamut, right?
So they talk about the most sacred memory.
And then the flip side is, under your
blue category, which is decisions,
medical decisions and things like that.
You have a question, have you
chosen a medical or financial power
of attorney, which, right in my
wheelhouse and I love you for that.
So thank you.
But these are questions too that even
when people have gone through the
exercise of estate planning, I don't
necessarily know that they share who
they chose to play those roles, which
is really pretty important, right?
And so having a card game, if you
will, to start the conversation and
provide the platform, the context,
and it takes the angst out of it.
Is really revolutionary.
Jason Brown: Thank you.
Yeah, I, as you are talking about
medical power of attorney and from my
experience and the reason why as you ask,
coming up with these questions, have you
chose your medical power of attorney?
And I always tell people, if you are
married and you have kids, and even if
they're older, would say, do not name your
spouse as your medical power of attorney.
Candace Dellacona: Really?
Jason Brown: Yes.
Candace Dellacona: Why?
Jason Brown: The decisions and weight
that you have to carry in that moment.
It is a weight that is unimaginable.
The emotional detachment you have
to make because you have to make
decisions in seconds, minutes,
that are life changing, altering
decisions that could be life or death.
When you are clouded in speaking from
an emotional standpoint, oftentimes your
decision's gonna come from an emotional
place versus an actual logical place of,
is this the best thing for my spouse?
Is this the best move that's
gonna save this person's life?
And oftentimes, if you have kids,
you have family, you start grieving
in that moment, like in that moment.
So you're making decisions about
saving someone's life in a state that
is the most imbalanced, chemically,
physical, spiritual mental state
that you have to make a decision.
And in that moment I was like, oh,
my brother is gonna be my power of
attorney, not my kids, not my spouse,
because I don't want them to feel
like they have to make that decision.
I want them to understand I named
him because I know, and this almost
caused a disruption between me and
my brother's relationship because of
how hard he was fighting for my wife
and the things that he was doing.
I was like, you're fighting like this for
her, I want you to fight like this for me.
Because in that moment, I was having to
deal with her mother, her grandmother,
I had a newborn, I had a nanny, I
had a 23-year-old, I had my mom, I
had my sister, I had my brother, I
had her aunt who was like her mom.
All of these people, half are at my
house, half at my other house, and
I'm having to deal with these people.
I'm having to deal with the surgeon,
i'm having to deal with the oncologist.
I'm having to deal with
the doctor in Duke.
I'm having to deal with their
oncologist, the nurses, all of these
people I'm having to deal with as
I'm trying to deal with myself.
Candace Dellacona: so it's so interesting
you're saying that Jason, right?
Because you've, what is really clear
to me in this conversation is how
connected the two of you were and are.
Were, and are.
And for you to be able to step back
and say, I wasn't the right person
to make those healthcare decisions
'cause of all these external factors
is really just probably one of the
most earnest things I've ever heard.
Where who would know her better.
And that's interesting because I've
never given that advice to my clients
that it shouldn't be your partner.
I'm not saying that I do provide
advice as to who it should be.
I think generally my advice when
people are trying to pick their agent
from a healthcare perspective, I
talk about things like being able to
be a great advocate, but not such a
strong advocate that their words and
their feelings replace the feeling
of the person who's going through it.
And my advice is always pick the
person who's gonna allow your words
to move through them so that they
advocate for who you are and what
life you wanna live and the type of
care that you would want or not want.
Sometimes more important, not want.
Jason Brown: I agree and most
of the time we think that that's
supposed to be our spouse.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah.
Jason Brown: But so even in that
moment, there were decisions that I
was having to make where I know that
once again, because of I knew her,
Candace Dellacona: Yeah.
Jason Brown: even when it came back
to like having to operate, they were
like, we would have to cut off half
of her brain she would be a vegetable.
I know that that's not the type
of life that my wife wanted.
I know that's not.
Now her parents, they were like,
Hey, whatever's gonna keep her here,
Candace Dellacona: Yeah.
Jason Brown: keep her here.
And I'm like, but I've seen her
suffering I know that she's not
gonna wanna go through life.
And even to the point where my wife's
mom, she wanted to bring her to the house
and have her do hospice at the house.
And I was like I have
a 1-year-old son here.
Why would I traumatize my son by
bringing her here and allowing him
to see this and go through that.
There's already things that
I need to work out with him.
Why add that onto the plate?
Candace Dellacona: Yeah.
Jason Brown: Those are the things
where if I wasn't in that place to
make that decision, those are the
type of decisions that would've been,
those were not selfish decisions,
that were decisions made for love.
They weren't decisions that were
gonna 'cause she wouldn't have wanted
Candace Dellacona: Right.
Jason Brown: I know that.
She would not have wanted that.
Candace Dellacona: Right.
And most people wouldn't.
And I think you're right, that a parent's
love is much different in the moment than
a partner, a sibling, even a child, right?
Where, you can recognize that.
I think it's a different
feeling as a parent.
So whatever the motivation you have
in choosing, I think what your advice
is you have to find somebody who will
have the space to be able to advocate
and not allow the other factors to
seep in, to influence the decision.
To change the decision that would
otherwise be the best for that person.
That's really hard to do.
That's a tall order.
Jason Brown: It is, but
it's also a selfless order.
Candace Dellacona: It is.
A hundred percent, it is.
Jason Brown: Because you can be selfish
and say, no, I'm gonna do this , but
are you actually the best person?
And for somebody like my wife, who was
the most selfless person in the world,
her last days, she would actually,
she had a WhatsApp group chat and
she would just minister to people and
she would do these voice recordings.
She just wanted to serve and be selfless
and she didn't wanna make it about her.
And in those moments, that's where I take
from her, where I'm like, this game that
I created, how do I use my pain and turn
it into purpose and not make it about me?
How can I do what I know
that she would've done?
was, how can I help someone navigate
this process and not have to go through
as many bumps and hurdles 'cause there's
unnecessarily bumps, hurdles, and potholes
that you're just gonna have to go through.
But she taught me how to be
selfless and that's how I actually
am moving forward and have moved
forward to launching this game.
Candace Dellacona: It's incredibly
moving the way in which you found the
legacy deck and the When What If Happens?
What I love too is that you're
taking it from all different angles.
Jason, you have a deck that's appropriate
for parents to kids where it's really
geared towards maybe the younger people in
the family and making it age appropriate.
I think for those listeners who don't
have children, they have pets that are
like their children, you have figured
out a way to parlay that and to having
these conversations about the love for
their pet and what they want for their
pet when they're not here, and really
taking it from so many different angles.
And I love that you recognize
that it is not one size fits all.
Jason Brown: Absolutely, because I know
that everybody experiences loss and
everybody goes through a grieving stage.
And when I was talking to another person
a therapist on my podcast, was actually
grieving the loss of being an empty nester
Candace Dellacona: Hmm.
Jason Brown: was having to go
through that grieving stage.
And when I was getting an IV drip for
some hydration, the nurse came in and she
was crying, and I was like what's wrong?
And she was like, I just lost my dog.
And I was like, I understand
I know how you feel right now.
And I started telling her about my story.
And of course, she was like, hold
on, now it's a little different.
And I said, no, it's not.
You are experiencing the loss of
someone that had a place in your heart.
It's not different.
It's the same because the same
way that animal gave you security,
gave you love, unconditional love.
Like it was the same emotions that are
just coming from a different place.
And that's when know that when it
comes to pet loss, people still
need a way to grieve and create
legacy for their pets as well.
And that's when I actually came
up with the pet loss edition.
Candace Dellacona: I love that you had the
personal experience with someone and you
extended them, the kindness and the grace.
Which is really one of the
things that you talk about a lot.
And the surrender of the human
experience of grief and what that is.
And, no matter what you look like on
the outside, your race, your creed, your
color, your nationality, we all grieve.
If we love, we grieve.
And one of the favorite
quotes that I have is by Rumi.
And he says something like, the
wound is where the light enters you.
And I have to say, Jason, that this
creation that you've come up with as
a brilliant founder and starting this
conversation, this legacy conversation,
the what's next, what's going to happen?
How will you feel?
You've put so much light into the world
and finding a way through your pain and
help us take one of the difficulties
out of our path that maybe you had to
face and coming up with these cards
and sharing them with the world.
I can't think of a better way
for you to honor your wife
and what you built together.
Jason Brown: If you actually
look at the box, it says,
inspired by Aja Brown on the box.
And my goal is be able to help families
navigate these conversations continuously,
or continue to create bonds and bridges
in their family and start to make end of
life preparations a conversation that is
a lot more normal because it is necessary.
And if that is something that I can
continue to do with my wife by my side
as we are navigating through this, that
is me continuing her legacy by still
allowing her to have conversations
with people throughout the world.
And I hope that this deck reaches a
million people to have a million different
conversations, because I know if one
person has a conversation, they're
having it with one to two to 10 people.
That 1 million turns into 10 million.
That 10 million turns into, it now
starts to change the narrative.
'cause legacy is not about death.
Legacy is about conversations of how you
want to be remembered and talked about.
And those conversations happen with
this card deck by having this as a
tool to start those conversations.
Candace Dellacona: Exactly, and
that's what I love about it.
Legacy really is about life and
the life that you wanna live.
How you want people to remember the
life that you lived and, knowing
that people like you are out there to
help us have these conversations in
the sandwich generation and modeling
for your own children, which is
another thing we didn't even get.
I could talk to you for hours as you know,
but as launching parents and raising good
humans and trying to show them the way,
not just in our words, but in our actions.
And that is what you have
done with this movement.
And I firmly believe that the legacy
card deck is a revolution and a movement
and I'm so happy to be a part of it.
I'm so happy to feature you and I'll
tell you that our listeners can hear
more from Jason, his perspective
and all of the people that he finds
interesting in the world on his
podcast called When What If Happens.
So we will provide the
information in the show notes.
And I just wanna thank you again
today, Jason, for being here and
sharing your story and Aja's story.
And how you got here because it's
really just remarkable and we're
a better world to have you in it.
Jason Brown: Thank you.
I appreciate you and
opening your doors to me.
I'm very grateful and I do not take
these connections and conversations
lightly because I do believe that
whoever is listening to this episode
and whoever is listening right now, that
this is a nudge that it's time for you
to start having those conversations.
And I appreciate the work
that you are doing as well.
And I hope that, all of the
listeners out here start to
normalize these conversations.
'cause it's just, it's important
and it's not a morbid thing.
It is a natural thing.
It's just we don't know
when the what if can happen.
So, those conversations can
be done in a lighthearted way.
Exactly how you did it is exactly
how, me and my wife, like that's
how we had these conversations.
Like we weren't in a room with the blinds
closed, with all black on with masks and
beanies, and we're like, so let's talk.
No, we were on vacation.
We could be at the beach.
We would be, saying out having a
glass shoe, have a glass of wine.
I'd be out having a drink and
we'd be sitting there just
having these conversations.
exactly how this is intended for it to be.
And I want people to know that these
conversations can be had more lighthearted
and it does open up the gateway
to have these better conversations
with practitioners like yourself.
Because I don't believe the first
time you guys should be having
these conversations is the first
time you meet with a practitioner.
Candace Dellacona: Yeah, absolutely right.
Absolutely right.
And having it part of your daily lives
and really thinking about what these
questions are and the answers to those
questions can really be transformative
for your family, for your relationship.
So thank you so much
for being here, Jason.
Jason Brown: Thank you, I appreciate you.