Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The voice of the American Consortium for Equity in Education at ace-ed.org | Host Larry Jacobs facilitates rich discussions with innovative educators, thought leaders, authors and the leaders within the education industry to promote equity, access and opportunity for every student in every school.
I'm David Cicero, and this
is Education Talk Radio.
Over the past few months, I found myself
returning to the same question again
and again: What should education become
in an age of artificial intelligence?
Not what tools to buy, not what policies
we should write, but what should
schools actually be trying to develop
in young people as AI becomes more
capable and more present in our lives?
In a recent conversation with
philosopher Troy Jollimore, we explored
that question at a very high level.
We talked about learning, understanding,
human relationships, and what
might be lost if education becomes
focused on only producing work.
So now coming down from that 30,000-foot
view, what does it actually look like
when a school system begins acting
on its answer to that question?
My guest today is Mike Miles,
Superintendent of Houston ISD.
Under his leadership, the district
has begun rolling out Future2, an
initiative designed to explore how
schools might prepare students for a
future shaped by artificial intelligence.
Superintendent Miles, welcome to the
show, and thank you for coming on.
Oh, happy to be here.
Thanks, David.
It's absolutely my pleasure.
A- and so as I, as I did my, my
research on, on Future2, I began to
think that the story really starts
with NES, the New Education System.
So for listeners who may not be familiar
with it, can you talk to us a bit
about NES and the core ideas behind it?
Uh, yeah.
So, um, in shorthand, um, NES is
New Education System, and it's the
instructional model and programming
that we placed in 130 schools in
the Houston School District out
of the 274 schools that we have.
And the morning, or the, the core
part of it is, of course, trying to
strengthen our reading, math, science
skills for, for students, and it's been
a great, uh, program for doing that.
Our reading scores are up, reading
proficiency is up, re- math proficiency,
um, double digits in three years.
And so that has, uh, worked really well
using a, uh, differentiated approach
and a direct instruction combination.
But also significantly, uh, there
is an art of thinking course that we
implemented for critical thinking,
information literacy, problem-solving,
and decision-making, and that's a required
course in this new education system,
and it has been required for three years
now, uh, in grades three through 10.
Uh, additionally, students have other
experiences, like if you're in middle
school and you're eligible, meaning
you, you hit, uh, the attendance
requirement, uh, you get to travel.
Eighth graders travel out of country to
Japan, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic.
Those have been some of our trips,
and seventh graders travel, uh,
out of state to Washington, DC
or Boston, things like that.
Uh, they also experiences, uh,
music, sports, karate, uh, any
number of things twice a week in
what we call the Dyad program.
Anyway, that's the, that's
the, the brief of it.
Sounds like you're seeing a lot of success
with it as well, and so as I begin reading
about Future 2, it's been described as
the next stage of your work in Houston.
So what I just wanna do
is get acquainted with it.
So before we dig into Future 2
a bit deeper, what's kind of the
high-level version of what Future 2 is?
There are two parts of our vision
statement for the intervention.
The first part is narrowing
the achievement gap And
we're doing that, uh, well.
And the second part is getting
students prepared for year 2030,
year 2035 world and workplace.
That is why we started Art of
Thinking class in, uh, in the
NES schools, uh, three years ago.
And now we need to expand on that
because things are moving even faster.
Uh, and so the last three years,
y- there's been the Art of Thinking
class, but there's also been new
programs of study at the high school
like cybersecurity, uh, use of drones,
entrepreneurship, upgraded health
sciences, things like that, that are more
tied to a, a future world and workplace.
And so we've already started
that, um, and now Future 2.0
is our way of saying, "Hey, yes, kids
need to read, write, and do math."
That's gonna continue.
Even in year 2030, year 2035 world
and workplace, reading proficiency is
important, and so is math proficiency.
So that, we're not gonna stop on that.
Uh, but we are gonna spend more
time, more resources on year
2030, year 2035 competencies.
I ne- I mentioned three of them already
with Art of Thinking, like, uh, critical
thinking, information literacy, and
problem-solving, uh, and decision-making.
Uh, but there's others like learning how
to learn, communications, collaboration
and teamwork, building perspective,
values-based action, innovation and design
thinking, and emotional intelligence.
So if you think about those
10 competencies, those are the
competencies that, uh, business
people, people in the industry, um,
researchers believe, uh, graduates
need in this new world and workplace.
And so we are being purposeful
about preparing our kids
with those competencies.
And so that's what, that's what Future 2.0
is, is, uh, is supposed to do,
is take us to the next level of
preparing kids or students for
a year 2035 world and workplace.
It's really inspiring, um, as I
listen to the, the core competence,
competencies that you explained here.
What I keep coming back to in my
mind is making sure our, our, our
learners can continue to be creators
and continue- Mm-hmm ⦠to learn,
can continue to contribute uniquely
to society and, and the economy.
And so I- The Art of Thinking class,
I'm, I'm wondering, you've mentioned
that a couple times, and I did, I
did read a bit about it as well.
This kind of takes me to my, to my next
question, and that, and that question
is, how is the foundation established
through NES a platform for, for Future 2?
So when you think about Future 2, what
parts of the foundation established
through NES do you think Future
2 is standing on or depending on?
Yes.
So Future2 is, is, is, uh,
the next iteration of NES.
And by that I mean in, in the morning for
Future2, you still have core subjects.
Again, for the next, you know, for
the foreseeable future, our students,
and, and many of them come to us, uh,
without good literacy skills, right?
They're not proficient in reading or math.
And so we still have, uh, a population
of students who need that sort of,
uh, instruction and development.
And so Future2 it still acknowledges that.
A- and so the morning subjects are our
core subjects, and, you know, we still
take the state exams, and we still do
all the things that are required of, of
school districts, and should be required.
So the morning is about the
core competencies, and I already
told you that Art of Thinking
for us is a core competency.
But the afternoon is then devoted more
to, uh, different coursework and different
experiences for students that are tied
directly to the competencies that I, I
mentioned, the 10 future competencies.
So it's, it, it's similar to,
to NES, but it's the next, it's
an evolution of that concept.
So I, if, if I'm getting this right, it
sounded li- it sounds like NES really
established this system where students
become strong academically, and then
we have this bridge of Art of Thinking.
Yes.
And now we're kind of crossing over
that bridge with all the tool, those
academic tools, um, that we built,
and we've got that in our bag, headed
on to more Future2 competencies.
That's really interesting.
What I'm wondering is before Future2
be- became the idea, before it had a
name, before we knew, before you knew
exactly what that would look like,
I wanna kinda take a step back, uh-
Mm-hmm ⦠before we dig a bit more
into Future2 so education leaders out
there can kind of experience that model.
I wanna take a step back, and I, I'd
love to know a bit of your thinking.
So when AI began accelerating, what
did you find yourself rethinking
about school and education?
Um, so the, the, the notion of Future2
and, and NES really, um, uh, was, was
already planned here, uh, uh, was,
was part of the vision for, uh, HISD.
Meaning, uh, the vision statement
that we h- that we put in place
on day one had preparing kids for
a different world and workplace.
Now, ChatGPT came out in November
2022, about seven months before
the, the-- my team came to Houston.
And, uh, so AI was already even more,
uh, on my mind, uh, than years before.
But Third Future School is the network
that I founded prior to coming to
Houston and after I left Dallas as
the superintendent, uh, back in 2015,
uh, included many of the, the concepts
that, uh, NES, uh, now borrows, uh,
from, from Third Future Schools.
In other words, already thinking about
critical thinking, information literacy,
problem-solving, decision-making, and
getting kids ready for a different
world, a different public education
system So, um, it, the, the acceleration
of AI since November 2022 hasn't
really changed what we're going to do.
What it's done is made, made
me and others more urgent.
Uh, in other words, um, I, I now
feel like we're a little bit behind.
We were gonna do two
Future Sch- two schools.
We were gonna pilot two schools,
now we're gonna pilot nine.
We were gonna move along adding 20 a
year, uh, 20 Future 2 schools a year.
Now we're gonna probably add 30
or 35 Future 2 schools every year.
Um, that's how urgent we need
to be, um, because the, the kids
don't have time for us to, to wait.
So if, if we dig a bit into what Future
2 actually looks like, we've got a lot
of education leaders, superintendents,
principals, um, that are, are, are
having a lot of these same questions,
thoughts, and conversations with their
teams, wondering how they'll move their
school and district forward and address
the difficulties and the, and the
opportunities of artificial intelligence.
I'm hoping that you'll be willing to
walk us through a Future 2 school day.
What would a student experience
from the morning to the afternoon
if I went to that school?
Uh, yeah, I can do that.
Um, again, I, I know all
of this is shorthand.
Uh, there's a lot of details, but
let me just give you the shorthand.
N- number one, the, the, the
doors of the school open at 6:30.
By the way, the NES schools, um,
their doors open at 6:30 also.
That doesn't mean kids, uh, need
to, to be at school at 6:30.
It means that the doors are open
if parents drop their kids off, or
if kids wanna come early, they can.
So the same thing with
the Future 2 schools.
Uh, the doors open at 6:30, and,
uh, I'll just tell you, the doors
close at 6:00 in the evening.
Again, that doesn't mean
kids have to stay till 6:00.
It just means that, um, the doors are
open if kids wanna stay after school.
Um, there's dinner at, um, 4:45
every day, so we'll, we'll be
serving breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
Um, and that's the, that's
the, the bookends of the day.
Uh, now let me tell you what happens
during the day, but just, just so you
know, the, the, part of this is, uh,
Future 2 serves a lot of underserved
kids And, um, in a, in, in a changing
world and workplace with the economy, uh,
sometimes going up and down or, and right
now it seems down, um, parents, parents
struggle, and we want- don't want that to
be an, uh, uh, obstacle for kids to learn.
Um, I mean, we can't solve all the
challenges of poverty or language
barriers and things like that, but we
can do our part, and this is our part.
Um, once kids get there, the school
day starts at 7:30, uh, and the mo-
the morning instruction is still
our core subjects, and the morning
goes from 7:30 till about 11:00.
Um, and that's where we do re- you
know, ELA, English Language Arts, math,
science, and social studies, and art
of thinking is a core subject again.
Uh, so that's in the morning.
Um, science and social
studies is every other day.
Uh, and language arts and math is
every da- every morning, and art
of thinking is every other morning.
And then students will have an
hour of, uh, what we call seminar.
So for, uh, that's a semester-long course
And the, the school is organized by,
or the Future 2 is organized by dyad.
So fifth and sixth graders will take
four semester courses in two years:
design thinking, using AI tools, study
of cultures, and how things work.
Uh, that's just an example of seminars.
And then after lunch, uh, there's
two hours of, uh, experiences.
So experiences are things like--
I'll just list a whole bunch of
them, uh, and then tell you why
they, they are the way they are.
There are 36 experiences that
you have to complete in a year.
Uh, here are some of them, uh, for this
is I think fifth and sixth graders.
Play chess, uh, do rock climbing, dine
at a restaurant, visit a museum, visit
college campuses, travel abroad, write
a pen pal, volunteer, do a ropes course,
do an escape room, see a musical,
go camping, grocery shopping, and 20
others, uh, things that kids have to do.
But all of them are tied to those
competencies I mentioned, right?
Uh, decision-making, information literacy,
learning how to learn, communications,
teamwork, building perspective,
value-based a-action, innovation
and design, emotional intelligence.
So take the escape room, for example.
Kids will learn about teamwork
and decision-making, and we'll
do some instruction on that, and
then they will actually go to an
escape room and, um, and they will
have to demonstrate their teamwork
abilities and their decision-making.
Um, and they'll be,
they'll be scored on that.
So, um, all of these experiences
are tied to these competencies.
And then after school, school ends at four
o'clock, uh, but every student during a
course of two years, the dyad to, uh, f-
like fifth and sixth grade, they have to,
uh, engage in a sport, pass a, you know,
a, a sport, um, play a musical instrument,
and, uh, also do, uh, performance arts.
They have to do t- what we call two cycles
or 12 weeks of a sport in those two years
Um, 12 weeks of, uh, musical instrument
in those two years, and then 12 weeks
of performance arts in those two years.
Now, if they already play a musical
instrument or n- and are still proficient
in that, uh, they can-- that will count
for their musical instrument requirement.
If they're already in a sport or play
a sport, uh, like they have a soccer
team at home, um, on, on weekends or
in the summer, that will also count.
It's those kids who don't have those
experiences and competencies that we
want, uh, we will require them to do
it, and we will provide that after
school from four o'clock to six o'clock.
But only, um, only th- for 12 weeks,
uh, will they have to do it if, um, if
they don't have that under their belt.
Now, uh, any kid can stay after school.
Even if they already play a musical
instrument, they can play another one
or they can play the same one at school
with some instruction, uh, after school.
That's so-- That's my day.
I, I get breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
I have recess if I'm
an elementary student.
I have, uh, uh, you know, time with my
colleagues and these experiences, and
after school I can, I can just hang out
at school if I want, or I can engage in
dance and performance arts, music, sports.
It sounds like a really rich curriculum.
What stuck out to me as I, as I read
through some of this, but not, not
nearly in as much detail as you've
just explained, so thank you for that.
What really stuck out to me, and
the, the question my research sort
of led me to was, we've got the
introduction of the seminar and
these wonderful required experiences.
And so I began to think it looks like
we're working on AI literacy, but at
the same time, we're doubling down on
these, like, real experiences, these
real-life experiences and design thinking.
I mean, what a, what a great course.
And so what I'm wondering is
what are you hoping students gain
from the combination of the two?
Why do we double down on experiences
when we introduce the AI literacy piece?
I'm just curious your thoughts on that.
Yeah, because, um, when you think
about our competitive advantage as
humans in an AI-enabled world Um, our
competitive advantage are the things
that the competencies we talk about.
Um, for the foreseeable future, people
working in teams, working in teams with an
AI, uh, platform or AI assist- assistance
is still gonna be very important.
Um, we have to learn different people's
perspective as we grow internationally.
Um, be- being only on a screen in your
cubicle using AI is not probably the
most effective use of our Uh, you know,
resources, personnel, human resources.
So people having good emotional
intelligence is going to be our
advantage, competitive advantage.
Um, being able to communicate in
different platforms, different
modes, not just writing.
Um, public speaking, being able
to present, be-being able to meet
somebody and, uh, immediately,
uh, raise their confidence in you.
You know, just different things like
that, uh, I think our students need.
And you-- Th-think about
the workplace right now.
Employers are saying, uh, kids need,
or graduates need more resilience.
They need better work ethic.
Um, they need to be able to, to
converse, make their case, be persuasive.
Um, those are not-- Those are
things you learn with other people.
Those are things you learn i-in using
the competencies we're talking about.
Th-those are not things you're gonna
learn particularly well on a, on
a machine, on a, on a AI platform.
So, uh, I think we have to consider
that it will be an AI-enabled world.
There's no question about that.
Knowing how to use AI will be important.
But these other soft skills, durable
skills, which by the way, have been
around for a while, um, are even more
important in an AI-enabled world.
This has been a common thread, a common
finding through a number of conversations
I've, I've had, and, um, I 100% agree.
And to some extent, I think that
the acceleration of AI is, is really
forcing us to figure out what those
human things are, those things, um,
that-- What make us human, right?
What make us, um, relate
to each other and- Mm-hmm
exist together and collaborate together.
What's forcing us to see what those
things are and double down on making
sure that we build those really strong.
So on the AI literacy side of things,
people are saying, "Well, we need to
roll out something around AI literacy.
Students need to be AI literate.
Teachers need to as well."
When you think about that, what
does AI literacy mean in future
too for students and teachers?
So, um, AI literacy means, uh, two things.
One, um How, how will AI and AI-enabled
world change how we work and operate?
Um, and so having kids understand
these competencies and the intersection
of these competencies with an
AI-enabled world will be important.
Number two, the actual usage of AI tools.
Now, uh, you, you see from what-- how
I described the, the day of a student,
most of it is not working with AI.
Most of it's working with other humans
and teachers to, to learn how these
durable skills that will help you
when you are in an AI-enabled world.
But still, being able to use AI
tools, I, I think is important.
And to say, you know, well, we shouldn't
use AI at all until they're at a certain
age like h- you know, high school or, or,
um, you know, graduates, I, I think that's
really gonna put kids at a disadvantage.
So you see that we have seminars.
I, I think I read the fifth
and sixth, uh, seminar course.
One is using AI tools Um, for third
and fourth grade, um, it's prompt
engineering, um, and, and, and AI.
In other words, how, how you frame
problems, how you a- ask problems, how you
iterate your questions, things like that.
Prompt engineering for
third and fourth grade.
So it's, it's not like we're not getting
kids ready at all for AI, but, uh, it's
not the predominant mode of the school.
I, I, I know somebodyâ¦
people have called it AI school or
AI-driven school, and it's like,
well, it's not really driven by AI.
It's driven by these
competencies, uh, that will help
kids in an AI-enabled world.
Um, and then when, when kids get to high
school, uh, even more important, we just--
we were talking today, we're starting a
new program of study, um, related to AI.
We already have one
related to cybersecurity.
Um, but now high schoolers will be
able to take a program of study,
um, career tech ed course with AI
as, as its focus, and, and AI tools.
So, um, uh, at, at the third
through eighth grade level, uh,
the future too is more about these
competencies than using AI tools.
I mean, I have to admit, listening and
getting the full story and listening
to the details, Superintendent Miles,
I'm not hearing AI school at all.
What I'm hearing you say, I wrote
some notes down, I'm gonna try to
kind of summarize them really quickly.
What I'm hearing you say
is, at a very high level, it
will be an AI-enabled world.
How do we prepare our students
to not be overtaken by it, but
help it elevate who they are?
I mean, you mentioned- Mm-hmm.
Yeah ⦠understand how AI will
change the way we live and work.
How do we help students
understand how it will change
the way we live and work, right?
This is, this is management.
This is me objectively looking
at the world with, with AI
here and developing quickly.
But on top of it, the tools to support
human quality and relationships.
This is-- to me, this is preparing
students to use AI to elevate being
themselves and, and being human.
This is, this is not, you
know, AI driving the school.
This is not succumbing to, to AI.
This is, I hear, helping students
manage this to their benefit.
And, and- I, Iâ¦
Yes.
I, I think it, it, it does two things.
One, it, um, it grows their human
value and their, their, their
respect for relationships, their
re- their respect for working in a
society, being engaged in a society.
It's not a screen time cubicle
kind of mindset That we're,
we're, we're trying to develop.
And that part is, is nothing,
nothing new in, in our world, right?
I, I mean, you can talk about
Plato working on the whole person.
Uh, you can talk about the Renaissance
working on the whole person, you know?
Um, they had different core subjects,
like in Plato's day, that people had
to know astronomy, but they also had
to be good, you know, um, work on
their physical fitness and health.
Now, the difference, of course, is back
then only the elite and a small percentage
of people got that whole rounded,
well-rounded education, whereas, uh, you
know, in our day in America, we want all
kids to have a well-rounded education.
Um, so that part, uh, had-
has to be doubled down on.
We need kids to w- be able to work
with others, to communicate well.
That's our human value.
And then the, the s- the second part
is the, the competitive advantage
that these human qualities, these
competencies will have to allow them to
engage in AI-enabled world, uh, where
people hopefully will make the, the key
decisions, and in education, the, the
connection between teacher and student is
still the most important, uh, assisted,
of course, with, uh, different, different
tools like h- has always been the case.
Uh, I'm looking at a smart board right
now, or an inter- interactive display
versus a, you know, these, uhâ¦
I'm b- I'm so old that the, that we
had the, those Xerox machines that
you could smell the, the blue ink.
Hmm.
Uh, you're too young to, to even
know what I'm talking about.
But, um, you know, those were tools.
That was the tool at the time.
I mean, in 1454, we had the printing
press for the first time, right?
So I'm, I'm not against technology, and
I, and I think, um, schools, businesses,
society has always been assisted by tools.
Uh, AI will be a tool that changes
and helps, uh, but there's some very
bad downsides if we don't have good
competencies from our kids, from our- Yeah
from our, uh, graduates.
Agreed.
Agreed.
So, so looking forward, as Future 2
rolls out and expands, what are you
gonna be paying most attention to?
What are you gonna be watching
more closely as you're
evaluating, potentially refining?
Yeah.
Uh, well, a couple things.
Uh, number one, and, um, we, we had
these dis- you know, these m- meetings,
and we had one this morning, um,
ab- about that question actually.
Uh, what theâ¦
W- will the lesson design
be closely tied to our own
objectives and the competencies?
We want the lessons to be fun, engaging.
Uh, we want, uh, students to, to go to
things like an escape room or ro- uh,
rope course, but this is not just, uh,
you know, summer's, summer camp, uh, where
kids, you know, just do a- activities.
I mean, there's some benefit
in just, uh, like travel.
There'sâ¦
In and of itself, that's,
it, there's a gain, right?
There's a, there's an
educational experience.
And some activities can be like that,
but even better if we guide them and
tie the activity to competencies.
Like I said, the, the escape
room is tied to decision-making
and, and teamwork, right?
If you're gonna build a, a model
bridge or to some design criteria
out of, uh, I don't know, popsicle
sticks, uh, that can be a fun activity.
Better still, if we tie it to
our problem-solving diagram.
In other words, define the problem, look
at the resources you have, uh, what are
some various alternatives, et cetera.
That's better.
And so in, in HISD, we, we do learning
rigorously, and so we always have some
clear objectives, and we tie it to those
objectives, and kids still have a lot
of room, uh, to, to engage and have fun,
uh, and, uh, and we want them to learn.
So I'll be looking closely at how well
our activities tie to these competencies.
Can you imagine if we do this rigorously
third through eighth grade, by the
time they get to high school, and then
we're gonna continue it, but by the
time they get to high school, they
are gonna be better problem solvers.
They are gonna be collaborating with
their teams and their colleagues.
Just think about that.
That's one of the things I'm looking at.
The other thing, though, is, you know,
um, my, uh, I think we need to ensure
that the entire education system, which
sits in a, in the context of state
requirements, legislative guidelines
and requirements, that the whole system
starts to support and invest in things
like what we're doing, the competencies.
Um, so that it, the, those competencies
aren't crowded out Because of requirements
and, uh, that we have to do, um, in the
traditional public education system.
Uh, anyway, so that I'll be, I'll be
looking at a couple of those things.
I find it so interesting that the,
the, the sort of human competencies
you've explained so well today have
become real curriculum question, right?
How do we execute?
How do we measure?
How do weâ¦
Also, what I'm hearing sort of
is, how do we create expectations
and hold students accountable for
developing these human qualities
in addition to math reading skills?
Um, my last question for
you is kind of a big one.
I'm really curious, given your experience
and what you're looking forward to in
future too, what you'll have to say here.
What's the conversation about
AI and education that you think
we may not still be having?
Yeah.
Well, w- we are just in the
beginning stages of talking about
AI usage in schools and districts.
We're at the beginning of that,
and there are already lines
being drawn to the extremes.
Um, for example, uh, there's, uh, if
you, if you go on a couple websites,
uh, I think either NEA or AFT, uh, AI,
AI cannot be used to diagnose students
That's a really broad general statement.
Or AI cannot be used to replace
anybody's job, whether it's central
office or teacher or whatever.
And, and so there's that side, and
then there's the other side where
there are some private schools or
charter schools that are, are really
diving into AI without thinking
through, in my mind, um, you know, Iâ¦
This, this is just an opinion, um,
what human values or competencies
are really need to be reinforced.
Um, and so we're, we're gonna have
to have that discussion, and we need
to have it sooner rather than later.
Um, I wrote a u- AI usage document for,
uh, our district, uh, and, um, we're,
we're in the middle of discussing,
you know, uh, some of those things.
But, um, that's, that's, that's
what I think we're missing.
We need, we need some balance there.
Um, there-- In my, in my mind, for
example, we can use AI to diagnose.
We already do that to
diagnose student writing.
Uh, as long as there's a human
in the loop or the, or the
teacher's the ultimate person who
says, "Yeah, this is the grade."
Um, uh, teachers like the fact
that AI can grade essays and give
feedback on the essays, uh, today
So that's a form of diagnosis.
Um, there's AI usage in, uh, compliance
things for special education, for
central office, lots of usage.
Uh, and yes, there's a big fear
right now, and I think it needs to
be done with, uh, thoughtfulness,
but imagine if you can use AI, um,
on a big budget that we have, $2
billion, to, to do some of the routine
things in HR or finance, and yes,
we, you, you might eliminate some
positions, but then raise teacher
salaries to a real professional wage.
Uh, 90 to $100,000 is, is what the
average salary should be for a teacher.
What if you did that?
Mm-hmm.
So, um, uh, or what if you put the
money into the travel for the students
and some of these things that we're
doing, staying, keep school open till
6:00, make sure everybody has dinner.
Um, you know, there's a cost to all that,
by the way, that we are investing in.
So, um, I think that discussion has,
has yet to be really, um, brought to
the forefront, and it needs to be.
Thank you, Superintendent Miles.
I really enjoyed our conversation.
Thanks for joining us on Education Talk
Radio, a part of the B Podcast Network.
If there's a topic you'd like us to
tackle or have a guest idea, send me
a message at dciceroedutalk@gmail.com.
Thanks for listening, and
we'll see you next time.