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“Self-trust is not about always getting it right, but about believing you’ll handle whatever comes.”
At some point in our lives we all get scared – of making the wrong decision, of not being a good parent, or that everyone will figure out we’re just making it up as we go.
I’ve spent years helping leaders work through fear, stress, and uncertainty. Now I’m making a podcast about how they face their fears and come out stronger.
It’s for founders, leaders, and business owners who feel like they’re constantly fighting uphill and not finding the balance they need to be effective at work and present at home.
00:00:00 Sally-Anne:
In your life and work, where are you allowing your choices to be shaped by other people's wishes?
00:00:06 Sally-Anne:
Are you giving yourself permission to explore the paths that align with what you truly want and need?
00:00:13 Sally-Anne:
In other words, do you trust yourself to make the decisions that are right for you?
00:00:18 Sally-Anne:
I'm Sally-Anne Airey and welcome to Fearless Forward, the podcast that asks leaders how they face their fears.
00:00:26 Sally-Anne:
Today I'm in conversation with a remarkable woman whose career has crossed continents and industries, taking her from Nigeria to Scotland via a series of bold reinventions.
00:00:37 Sally-Anne:
Dr.
00:00:38 Sally-Anne:
Yakemi Ataru is a strategic marketing consultant, an author, an inspirational speaker, a certified coach, and a passionate advocate for getting more women and underrepresented groups into business and leadership roles.
00:00:52 Sally-Anne:
With degrees in chemical engineering and petroleum engineering, Yekeni began her working life in the oil and gas industry.
00:00:59 Sally-Anne:
She worked for over 10 years in technical and commercial roles with major international energy companies before realizing that was the wrong long-term path for her.
00:01:09 Sally-Anne:
Still working full-time, with two children under four, she completed an MBA and decided that marketing and strategy would align better with her creative passions.
00:01:20 Sally-Anne:
After authoring a best-selling book, The Smart Skeptics Guide to Social Media and Organizations, she took a bold chance on entrepreneurship and started her first business in 2016.
00:01:31 Sally-Anne:
That leap opened the door to a new chapter, and her second business, a data-driven sales enablement consultancy, won multiple awards, including Service Industries Entrepreneur of the Year at the 2023 Great British Entrepreneur Awards.
00:01:46 Sally-Anne:
Today, still only in her 40s,
00:01:49 Sally-Anne:
Yakemi is Chancellor of the University of the West of Scotland and the CEO of Somebody Cares Scotland, an award-winning charity which alleviates hardship by providing free food, furniture, and essential household items to those in need.
00:02:06 Sally-Anne:
In our conversation, we discuss Yakemi's feeling that she's been called to do hard things.
00:02:17 Sally-Anne:
Yakemi
00:02:18 Sally-Anne:
Your life's path has been extraordinary, multiple occupations and many achievements.
00:02:26 Sally-Anne:
And I'm wondering, who are you in all this?
00:02:30 Yekemi:
It's such a great question and really the question that I started asking myself round about the age of maybe 15 or 16.
00:02:40 Yekemi:
And it came from growing up as a child that was often described as sensitive,
00:02:47 Yekemi:
I'm hypersensitive and I tended to pick up things and see things that other people missed.
00:02:54 Yekemi:
And at that time, I felt like it was a flaw because every time it was brought up, it was brought up as a criticism, you know, something that is not great, something that could hold me back, something that other people could use to manipulate me.
00:03:06 Yekemi:
And as I got older, I was determined to find out exactly what role that played in
00:03:14 Yekemi:
what I was going to be when I grew up.
00:03:16 Yekemi:
And I grew up in Nigeria and coming to the time of deciding what you study at university and all that, there were quite limited options in terms of what your parents would feel would be lucrative for you, right?
00:03:28 Yekemi:
So if you didn't become an engineer, then you'd maybe be expected to be a medical doctor, perhaps go into banking, something like that.
00:03:36 Yekemi:
So ultimately I went into engineering.
00:03:38 Yekemi:
I was good at math, but still I felt inside of me that
00:03:43 Yekemi:
what I really was, what was placed inside me, I hadn't quite discovered what it was.
00:03:47 Yekemi:
And so between the ages of 16 and I would say 22, I was really on a discovery journey.
00:03:54 Yekemi:
I didn't really know what I was looking for, but I relied a lot on how things felt.
00:04:00 Yekemi:
I relied a lot on situations where it felt good and good meant it felt easy.
00:04:06 Yekemi:
There was a kind of flow in how I was contributing to that situation.
00:04:12 Yekemi:
There was a kind of flow and the impact I was having on people.
00:04:16 Yekemi:
And I also noticed the opposite when there were situations that made me feel nervous, that made me feel out of my depth, anxious.
00:04:24 Yekemi:
And I really started picking up when I was almost like acting, where I was behaving in a way that I thought people were expecting me to behave.
00:04:33 Yekemi:
And it just felt rough, but I couldn't really describe the feeling.
00:04:38 Yekemi:
I didn't really know what was going on.
00:04:40 Yekemi:
So at the core of who I am is someone who believes deeply in a personal journey.
00:04:45 Yekemi:
And I do think these journeys are all personal.
00:04:47 Yekemi:
I'm a person of faith, of the Christian faith.
00:04:50 Yekemi:
So I also believe that there's something that's been put inside me that only I can actually do and contribute.
00:04:58 Yekemi:
and as a result of a combination of my personality, the external experiences I have and influences I have, where I happen to be, what country, what company, and what sector, which I know we'll come to later on.
00:05:11 Yekemi:
And so it's been a very unexpected journey because like I said, I didn't really know what I was looking for.
00:05:18 Yekemi:
I was relying a lot on how things felt.
00:05:21 Yekemi:
And one discovery which happened quite late in my 20s was growing up, even though I was described as highly kind of sensitive and picking up and reacting to things that other people tended to ignore or not even notice.
00:05:34 Yekemi:
I was also described as extroverted compared to my siblings.
00:05:37 Yekemi:
I was certainly very extroverted.
00:05:39 Yekemi:
My 2 siblings are quite introverted.
00:05:41 Yekemi:
And extroversion meant that
00:05:43 Yekemi:
I had a lot of friends.
00:05:44 Yekemi:
I wanted to have a lot of friends.
00:05:46 Yekemi:
I made a lot of effort to keep people happy and to have their approval.
00:05:49 Yekemi:
And it bothered me when I didn't have their approval.
00:05:52 Yekemi:
It bothered me when I didn't have a lot of people I could call my friends.
00:05:55 Yekemi:
I really wanted people to accept me.
00:05:58 Yekemi:
And so, yeah, from the outside looking in, I was highly extroverted.
00:06:01 Yekemi:
I seemed to get energy from being around other people and certainly felt excluded or left out or isolated when I wasn't around people.
00:06:10 Yekemi:
And it wasn't until my kind of late 20s or early 30s that I realized I am extroverted, but not quite as extroverted as I thought I was.
00:06:18 Yekemi:
Because the moment confidence started to build and I got clarity around.
00:06:23 Yekemi:
who I think I was, that need for approval and for gaining energy from other people started to drop.
00:06:31 Yekemi:
And some of the early clues where I would be maybe the life of the party, but after a while, I had this strong feeling like I wanted to redraw.
00:06:39 Yekemi:
And people would say, oh, are you okay?
00:06:41 Yekemi:
Are you moody?
00:06:42 Yekemi:
And I actually thought maybe I'm a moody person because after a while, I wanted to be on my own.
00:06:47 Yekemi:
I needed to
00:06:49 Yekemi:
kind of recalibrate as it were, but I didn't know what was going on.
00:06:52 Yekemi:
It was really just a journey of trying to understand what drains me, what energizes me, and what does that actually mean for who I'm going to grow up to be.
00:07:03 Sally-Anne:
So a journey of self-understanding.
00:07:06 Yekemi:
Yes.
00:07:07 Sally-Anne:
And a conscious journey, I'm hearing.
00:07:10 Sally-Anne:
You know, for a young person, a remarkable awareness of how you were feeling and what those feelings meant.
00:07:18 Sally-Anne:
and discovery, realizing that other people's analysis or assessment of what was happening to you, for you, with you, you know, this idea of being moody, a judgment of what they were perceiving wasn't at all what was happening.
00:07:34 Sally-Anne:
It was simply that you needed to re-energize.
00:07:37 Sally-Anne:
You needed to be by yourself.
00:07:39 Sally-Anne:
Exactly.
00:07:40 Sally-Anne:
And I love also the idea that as you grew in confidence, you gained clarity.
00:07:46 Sally-Anne:
That fascinates me.
00:07:47 Sally-Anne:
I suppose the question there might be, do you think in order to be clear, we need a certain amount of confidence and what does that mean to you?
00:07:56 Yekemi:
I think clarity comes from trying different things and following your instinct.
00:08:04 Yekemi:
It's a sort of self-trust.
00:08:06 Yekemi:
And I think there has to be confidence in that and not confidence that you're going to get it right, not even confidence that you're on the right path, but confidence that it will be okay even if you make the wrong decision.
00:08:18 Yekemi:
It will be okay.
00:08:19 Yekemi:
There will be a way to come back from that, there's going to be some kind of learning in that.
00:08:25 Yekemi:
And so as the clarity started to come, I think confidence was kind of the next step.
00:08:31 Yekemi:
You have to trust yourself to gain that clarity.
00:08:33 Yekemi:
Otherwise, you're always going to be doubting if what is actually happening is clarity.
00:08:39 Yekemi:
You're always going to be thinking, is this something people are saying that I'm maybe personalizing?
00:08:45 Yekemi:
You know, have I got it wrong?
00:08:47 Yekemi:
So I think that self-trust has to be there.
00:08:50 Yekemi:
And it's something that develops
00:08:52 Yekemi:
for me anyway, from trying things and being okay with those things not working out and understanding that there's always going to be something that you learn from that.
00:09:02 Yekemi:
Whether it's a new skill you pick up, whether it's people that you can now call your friend, whether it's just actually never do that again, because that doesn't actually work for you.
00:09:13 Yekemi:
I mean, it might work for this other person.
00:09:15 Yekemi:
And I think comparing ourselves in my journey anyway was a big barrier because you see something working for somebody else
00:09:22 Yekemi:
I've got some clarity.
00:09:23 Yekemi:
That's what I'm going to do.
00:09:24 Yekemi:
So that's not clarity.
00:09:26 Yekemi:
You're comparing yourself to somebody and assuming that that's going to work for you.
00:09:30 Yekemi:
And that's why it's a really personal journey.
00:09:32 Yekemi:
And that self-trust is important.
00:09:34 Yekemi:
I think some of the self-trust also comes from upbringing.
00:09:38 Yekemi:
Yes, we're responsible for our own development, but I think there are certain foundations early on that help you trust yourself more.
00:09:45 Yekemi:
I think it comes more naturally to some people than others.
00:09:47 Yekemi:
If you've grown up in an environment where what you think is that important, for
00:09:52 Yekemi:
example, in cultures where respecting your elders, there's a lot of emphasis on that.
00:09:58 Yekemi:
My culture is a lot like that, where even if you feel like you've got clarity, if someone older than you has a different opinion, their opinion automatically has more weight than your opinion.
00:10:10 Yekemi:
And you could grow up
00:10:11 Yekemi:
always doubting what you think, always feeling like you have to defer to some higher power, whether that is parents, whether that's people who have had the experience.
00:10:21 Yekemi:
And I think over time, it's balancing that self-trust with counsel.
00:10:25 Yekemi:
So what do you think?
00:10:27 Yekemi:
And then, yeah, you can ask people.
00:10:28 Yekemi:
There's nothing wrong in going to people and saying, this is what I'm thinking.
00:10:32 Yekemi:
What are your thoughts?
00:10:33 Yekemi:
Based on your experience, does that make sense?
00:10:34 Yekemi:
And I think that's another stage of the journey, being able to hear from other people, but not just take it as fact.
00:10:41 Yekemi:
but actually look at it and go, yeah, these couple of things feel right.
00:10:46 Yekemi:
They feel like where I'm going.
00:10:48 Yekemi:
This other thing, not quite.
00:10:50 Yekemi:
I think I'm on a different kind of journey.
00:10:52 Yekemi:
And it's that kind of measured assessment of what's going on around you.
00:10:56 Yekemi:
And you have to have self-trust.
00:10:57 Yekemi:
You have to trust that you're going to make the right judgment.
00:11:00 Sally-Anne:
So you have to trust that you're going to make the right judgment.
00:11:03 Sally-Anne:
And I'm hearing a certain humility needs to go with that in that, you know, from time to time you might get it wrong.
00:11:11 Sally-Anne:
And that's okay, and you'll be all right.
00:11:15 Sally-Anne:
In your work, in the positions that you've held, where you've been responsible for people, and you are now, how does that make self-trust more difficult?
00:11:28 Yekemi:
I think one of the biggest lessons that I learned, and I'm still on that journey of learning it, is being okay with making a decision.
00:11:36 Yekemi:
that not everybody approves of.
00:11:38 Yekemi:
And I think that's held me back in the past, because at the end of the day, making a judgment that is right doesn't mean it.
00:11:46 Yekemi:
It's the perfect judgment.
00:11:47 Yekemi:
There's no perfect, well, certainly in business and leadership, there's almost never a perfect solution.
00:11:53 Yekemi:
There's always going to be something that doesn't quite work, but it's looking at the whole picture, looking at the knowledge and information that you have at that time.
00:12:02 Yekemi:
And so self-trust is more difficult in the sense that, okay, maybe you're okay with it not going particularly well, or this might not be actually the right decision.
00:12:11 Yekemi:
You don't have all the information, but a decision needs to be made.
00:12:14 Yekemi:
So
00:12:15 Yekemi:
You might be okay with that, but it not working out or the potential of it not working out can impact other people.
00:12:22 Yekemi:
And so in that sense, it could feel like self-trust becomes a little bit selfish, where you feel like you'll be okay with that.
00:12:30 Yekemi:
You can maybe live with the consequences of it not going exactly how you planned, or you have a plan for redirecting or damage control, as they say.
00:12:40 Yekemi:
But other people around you that might be impacted by this decision might not be so okay with that.
00:12:45 Yekemi:
And that's tough as a leader because you want other people to approve of your decisions.
00:12:50 Yekemi:
But it's not possible for everybody to agree with the direction you're going.
00:12:54 Yekemi:
And it's really about having.
00:12:56 Yekemi:
where you're going to draw the line.
00:12:58 Yekemi:
What are you willing to compromise?
00:13:00 Yekemi:
What are you not willing to compromise?
00:13:02 Yekemi:
And leaders don't operate in isolation.
00:13:03 Yekemi:
They certainly shouldn't.
00:13:04 Yekemi:
You should have a supportive network, whether that's your board of directors or your board of trustees or some kind of network that you can go to and kind of sense check what it is that you're looking to do.
00:13:15 Yekemi:
But again, you have to trust that you will ask the right questions.
00:13:18 Yekemi:
Yourself, trust doesn't mean you have all the questions and you're trusting yourself all the time.
00:13:22 Yekemi:
It's really about trusting that you have the right questions, is trusting
00:13:26 Yekemi:
that when there's a response that you can look at that and make an assessment as to what is best to apply in that particular situation.
00:13:36 Yekemi:
And also trusting that your decisions are coming from a place of integrity.
00:13:41 Yekemi:
You know that you're always making sure that the wider population, whether that is your team, whether that's the community you're serving, whether that's your customers, that their best interest is always at the forefront of it.
00:13:52 Yekemi:
And if it turns out in front that the decision that you made wasn't
00:13:56 Yekemi:
have to trust that you made the decision based on the information you had at that time.
00:14:00 Yekemi:
And now there's new information.
00:14:03 Yekemi:
And that's fine.
00:14:04 Yekemi:
You look for a way forward.
00:14:06 Yekemi:
Yeah.
00:14:07 Sally-Anne:
So you are clear about what matters.
00:14:12 Sally-Anne:
You have a sense of direction and you're open to others' points of view.
00:14:19 Sally-Anne:
And then it's like you're leading the decision making.
00:14:23 Sally-Anne:
You're not deciding and telling people what's happening.
00:14:26 Sally-Anne:
You're clear enough to lead the decision making and to allow the contributions that you feel will make that decision better.
00:14:36 Sally-Anne:
Something like that.
00:14:38 Yekemi:
Yes.
00:14:38 Yekemi:
It's a tenuous balance though, because sometimes depending on what the decision is and what needs to be done, there are times where you just need to decide and it might be only your
00:14:52 Yekemi:
decision that needs to matter in that situation.
00:14:56 Yekemi:
And there are other times where, yeah, you need to confer with people.
00:14:59 Yekemi:
You need to look at what am I missing?
00:15:01 Yekemi:
Are there any blind spots, something I'm not considering?
00:15:04 Yekemi:
And I think there's sometimes a feeling that if you ask what people think or you share maybe where you're heading to with a decision and they maybe have a different view,
00:15:15 Yekemi:
you have to take that on board.
00:15:16 Yekemi:
I don't know about you, but sometimes if one of my children asked me what I think about something, like I'm going to wear this pink dress and I say, pink is not really your color, for example.
00:15:28 Yekemi:
Oh, you should wear the blue one, for instance.
00:15:30 Yekemi:
And then she goes on and wears the pink dress.
00:15:32 Yekemi:
You sort of feel a little bit like, huh, why did you ask me what I think?
00:15:35 Yekemi:
Because you've just completely ignored what I said.
00:15:39 Yekemi:
But in some ways, I smile when that happens because it shows
00:15:43 Yekemi:
this self-trust, like, okay, you thought the pink one didn't look great on me, but actually I love the pink one and that's what I'm going to wear, right?
00:15:50 Yekemi:
So sometimes it's about making the decision, you know, this is what's going to happen in situations where it's urgent, where it's not really a democracy type situation, you just kind of need to decide.
00:16:02 Yekemi:
And then there are other situations where you go and speak to people and you say, this is what's going on, this is where I'm leaning.
00:16:07 Yekemi:
And I think as long as people feel like you shared your position with them and you shared why
00:16:13 Yekemi:
you're going in that direction?
00:16:14 Yekemi:
What are the pieces of information and what's the knowledge that you have that has caused you to go in this direction?
00:16:19 Yekemi:
Even if you don't go with what they're saying, I think that's still important.
00:16:24 Yekemi:
They feel like they were included.
00:16:25 Yekemi:
They didn't just get an announcement or an e-mail saying, this is what we're doing.
00:16:29 Yekemi:
And so that balance is, I think, constant for most leaders.
00:16:32 Yekemi:
It's certainly a skill and it's not something you just learn once.
00:16:37 Yekemi:
I think you continuously assess a situation and decide how do you decide in that situation?
00:16:43 Sally-Anne:
Indeed, and that's bound to evolve, at least you'd hope so, right?
00:16:46 Sally-Anne:
And as you say, it's so context dependent.
00:16:50 Sally-Anne:
in certain situations, you might just have to make the call, and in others, you can afford to consult and reach a consensus.
00:16:59 Sally-Anne:
And certainly to give people a sense of being seen and heard, right?
00:17:03 Sally-Anne:
More likely to come with you.
00:17:05 Sally-Anne:
unless the thing is urgent and then that does change things.
00:17:08 Sally-Anne:
But no, indeed, and respecting that, there just isn't only one way, is there?
00:17:13 Sally-Anne:
There's an approach.
00:17:14 Sally-Anne:
So speaking of approach, how would you describe yours as a leader?
00:17:20 Yekemi:
It's evolving, I would say.
00:17:23 Yekemi:
I think leadership is an interesting, I suppose, word and I don't know if we would call it a vocation.
00:17:29 Yekemi:
I think from when I was young, I did have that tendency to just kind of stand up and lead.
00:17:34 Yekemi:
I remember being, gosh, I must have been nine maybe, and I'd written a play at my son's school and I gathered people and I was directing it.
00:17:44 Yekemi:
And even at that age, I realized that I actually preferred to be directing it rather than being in it, which an adult picked up later
00:17:53 Yekemi:
Even at that age, I was a leader and sometimes it robbed people the wrong way because I wasn't often the oldest person in the group, but yet I seemed to be leading it.
00:18:04 Yekemi:
And so that sort of leadership is about, I suppose, directing, being maybe the most visible, providing instruction, providing guidance.
00:18:16 Yekemi:
And so I think my early leadership
00:18:19 Yekemi:
was very much about that and what I've learned in the past decade and a half or so is leadership more almost as a servant, serving the people that I'm leading and understanding that leadership doesn't mean that you need to be in front and it's always your ideas and you even need to be writing a script necessarily.
00:18:42 Yekemi:
You could say a script needs to be written.
00:18:45 Yekemi:
but you're not necessarily writing the script.
00:18:48 Yekemi:
And that's, I guess, been the evolution of my leadership.
00:18:51 Yekemi:
Most recently, I've been evaluating my leadership in the past maybe 18 months or so.
00:18:56 Yekemi:
For example, I noticed that my default style is very much kind of a mentoring and guidance type of leadership.
00:19:04 Yekemi:
And if it's a topic that I know a lot about, I noticed that I didn't have the patience to necessarily guide and coach, I would just provide the answer.
00:19:15 Yekemi:
And when I'm on my worst behavior, I would actually just do it because it's just easier than trying to like coach or explain.
00:19:25 Yekemi:
And so reflecting on that actually led me to start a coaching qualification in third quarter of last year because I noticed with some of the people I was leading that my mentoring style wasn't working.
00:19:40 Yekemi:
Things kept coming back like a boomerang.
00:19:43 Yekemi:
And I was going, we already discussed this, of what's going on.
00:19:47 Yekemi:
But I started looking at my toolkit, if you like, as a leader, and I realized that, yeah, I was doing a bit of telling and mentoring and perhaps coaching where I'm not giving the answers and I'm more observing, asking great questions and allowing people come to their own realization.
00:20:06 Yekemi:
You see the light bulbs go on and they come to their own solution or at least something to go and think about.
00:20:13 Yekemi:
was a lot more effective.
00:20:14 Yekemi:
Now, not every situation is a coaching situation.
00:20:18 Yekemi:
So again, it goes back to that situational, maybe leadership, you could call it, or you have to know when to do that.
00:20:25 Yekemi:
So for me, my leadership style, I would say my default tends to be mentoring.
00:20:30 Yekemi:
I'm comfortable being a visible leader.
00:20:32 Yekemi:
However, moving into the third sector about 20 months ago, the sort of visibility that
00:20:39 Yekemi:
I had and provided and was comfortable with as an entrepreneur for 10 years.
00:20:44 Yekemi:
It's a different kind of visibility.
00:20:46 Yekemi:
It's far less this kind of in front type of leadership.
00:20:50 Yekemi:
It's more about enabling people to do the job they need to do, making sure they have the tools or resources and helping to reason out a way forward when things get a little bit stuck or chaotic.
00:21:04 Yekemi:
And sometimes my leadership involves getting out of the way.
00:21:09 Yekemi:
so that people can do what they need to do.
00:21:11 Yekemi:
And so it's been a different kind of leadership, one that if someone had said to me three years ago that this is the kind of leadership that I would take on, I probably would have said, no, I don't think so.
00:21:22 Yekemi:
That doesn't actually sound like leadership in some ways.
00:21:28 Yekemi:
So yeah, it's been a journey.
00:21:29 Yekemi:
It's been certainly an evolution.
00:21:32 Sally-Anne:
Oh, and I want to congratulate you for embracing that because
00:21:36 Sally-Anne:
gosh, from the age of nine, if you had this strong sort of instinctive tendency to step out in front and lead from the front, so to speak, you know, and directive, not in a bad way, but clear out there in front.
00:21:51 Sally-Anne:
And as you say, for best part of your working life, that had worked really well in that context.
00:21:56 Sally-Anne:
And here you are stepping into the unknown.
00:21:58 Sally-Anne:
And as you do that, realizing that
00:22:02 Sally-Anne:
what had worked until now may not always apply here.
00:22:06 Sally-Anne:
And that takes a lot of courage.
00:22:08 Sally-Anne:
And I was thinking, as you were speaking, you're in the third sector here.
00:22:12 Sally-Anne:
I'm imagining that you're working with a team.
00:22:15 Sally-Anne:
where you want them to contribute.
00:22:17 Sally-Anne:
That's how it works in that context.
00:22:19 Sally-Anne:
So for people to contribute, they've got to be able to think for themselves.
00:22:24 Sally-Anne:
And what you're now doing is encouraging them to do that rather than, if you like, doing their thinking for them, which, you know, in the moment can feel satisfying if you get something done.
00:22:34 Sally-Anne:
But it's not works, is it, in the longer term?
00:22:37 Sally-Anne:
And you're building something here.
00:22:39 Sally-Anne:
So tell us about the work you're doing now and what drew you to it.
00:22:44 Yekemi:
It's different from anything I've ever done, anything I thought I would ever do.
00:22:48 Yekemi:
So I'm leading a charity organization in Aberdeen, and it's a 22 year old charity.
00:22:54 Yekemi:
And I joined in August of 2024 after closing my last business, which closed in May of 2024.
00:23:02 Yekemi:
So I had a period of rest, recovery, reflection,
00:23:07 Yekemi:
And I thought I was perhaps going to just start another business and go on there or join a startup and help them grow.
00:23:15 Yekemi:
But I'd heard about this charity many years ago, probably maybe six years ago, where I'd met someone who was on the board of this charity.
00:23:23 Yekemi:
And even then,
00:23:24 Yekemi:
had just mentioned casually that the founders needed to retire.
00:23:29 Yekemi:
They were already in their 70s at that point.
00:23:31 Yekemi:
Yeah, they're going to need to get a new CEO.
00:23:33 Yekemi:
And the person just said it casually in a conversation.
00:23:37 Yekemi:
But even then, I think this was 2019 or 2020, it stuck with me.
00:23:42 Yekemi:
I suddenly, it's hard to describe, but I started thinking, gosh, wouldn't it be great to be a CEO of a charity, which made absolutely no sense at that time because
00:23:53 Yekemi:
I was co-leading a small business at the time.
00:23:57 Yekemi:
I never worked in a charity.
00:24:00 Yekemi:
And I remember saying to my husband at that time, I don't know why this is kind of sticking with me.
00:24:05 Yekemi:
But yeah, I let it go.
00:24:06 Yekemi:
And this particular person became a mentor and was mentoring me as a small business owner.
00:24:12 Yekemi:
And we never mentioned the charity ever again.
00:24:15 Yekemi:
And so in May of 2024, when I closed my business, and then this person called me, they had seen on LinkedIn that I'd announced
00:24:23 Yekemi:
announced this and they called me to check how I was doing and I was getting on and just mentioned that they're going to be in Aberdeen and they're looking for a new CEO for this charity.
00:24:33 Yekemi:
And suddenly I was like, what, the same charity that you mentioned in 2019, 2020?
00:24:38 Yekemi:
And they said, yes.
00:24:39 Yekemi:
And I said, okay.
00:24:40 Yekemi:
They said, oh, would you like to catch up when I'm in Aberdeen?
00:24:42 Yekemi:
And I said, yeah, sure.
00:24:43 Yekemi:
And I hung up.
00:24:44 Yekemi:
But again, I just sort of sat there at the dining table thinking, what is going on?
00:24:51 Sally-Anne:
Yeah, extraordinary, isn't it?
00:24:54 Yekemi:
Yeah, It's hard to explain how something can just stick with you and you think, why is this lingering?
00:25:01 Yekemi:
So long story short, I sent a text and I said, I don't know what's going on, but I would like to have a chat.
00:25:12 Yekemi:
And at that point, I felt, look, if I can just help out in an interim situation and just help out for three months,
00:25:19 Yekemi:
and then just leave them be fine, would be great learning.
00:25:22 Yekemi:
It gives me a chance to know if this is even for me and give them a chance to decide if I'm any good at it.
00:25:28 Yekemi:
And so it was going to be a three month sort of thing.
00:25:31 Yekemi:
So I had a series of interviews and meetings, met the board, met the founder, and long story short, I became CEO in August of 2024.
00:25:38 Yekemi:
And here we still are.
00:25:40 Yekemi:
So it was a really unexpected journey and I've learned so much through it.
00:25:46 Yekemi:
I've, for instance,
00:25:47 Yekemi:
realized that one of them, I suppose, missing pieces over the years have been the highlight that one can give to social impact and what that actually means in terms of contributing to the community around you.
00:26:00 Yekemi:
I've got to meet so many people who, I mean, they would give the shirt of their back, they would work all the hours to make sure that people that have no other place to go for help definitely get supported.
00:26:12 Yekemi:
And that's been a real eye opener and it's been very inspiring.
00:26:17 Yekemi:
And I've been
00:26:18 Yekemi:
privileged to see the good in people and the good in the community and some of the hidden poverty.
00:26:23 Yekemi:
Because I live in Aberdeen that is often seen as, you know, oil capital and people have nice cars and so on.
00:26:31 Yekemi:
But then you start to see these pockets of poverty and people don't have as much as you think.
00:26:36 Yekemi:
Or even communities and just streets apart where, you know, one street is very affluent and the next street has nothing.
00:26:44 Yekemi:
And it's obviously gotten worse over the years with oil and gas issues and cost of living crisis.
00:26:49 Yekemi:
There's lots hit the city.
00:26:51 Yekemi:
And so to be able to give back to a place that really has supported my journey over something like 22 years has been a real honour.
00:27:00 Sally-Anne:
I love what you said about the unexpected nature of it, because I'm wondering which part of you is saying that, because it wasn't really, was it?
00:27:11 Sally-Anne:
Because you knew back in 2019.
00:27:15 Sally-Anne:
Good point.
00:27:17 Sally-Anne:
I love that juxtaposition.
00:27:19 Sally-Anne:
And again, what it reinforces for me listening to you is that you listen to your feelings, don't you?
00:27:25 Sally-Anne:
don't ignore them.
00:27:26 Sally-Anne:
They do inform your choices, even if they feel unexpected.
00:27:31 Yekemi:
That's true.
00:27:32 Yekemi:
That's true.
00:27:33 Yekemi:
I definitely scrutinize
00:27:35 Yekemi:
why I'm feeling a certain way.
00:27:38 Yekemi:
Why did that make me feel that way?
00:27:39 Yekemi:
And it's part of the self-awareness journey that I've put myself on over the years.
00:27:45 Yekemi:
I asked, why did that feel awkward?
00:27:47 Yekemi:
Or why did that feel good?
00:27:48 Yekemi:
Or why were you surprised around that?
00:27:50 Yekemi:
And it's been really helpful to get to know myself better.
00:27:54 Sally-Anne:
Yeah, back to the question of all the thing of this thing we call self-trust.
00:28:00 Sally-Anne:
Multifaceted, isn't it?
00:28:02 Sally-Anne:
So tell us more about what you actually do in this charity.
00:28:05 Sally-Anne:
How are you helping people?
00:28:07 Sally-Anne:
What would be a typical day?
00:28:09 Sally-Anne:
Sorry, three questions in one, but start where you like.
00:28:12 Sally-Anne:
But I'd love to hear more about what it's all about.
00:28:15 Yekemi:
The charity is called Somebody Cares in Aberdeen and it started by providing furniture for people who couldn't afford to buy furniture on their own.
00:28:27 Yekemi:
And our main service has really revolved around that.
00:28:30 Yekemi:
We have over 80 agency partners that will refer people to us.
00:28:35 Yekemi:
So it could be the prison service, women's aid, local authorities, like your local councils and so on, that will support people who have
00:28:44 Yekemi:
maybe just been given some social housing.
00:28:47 Yekemi:
We deal with women in particular that have escaped domestic abuse.
00:28:51 Yekemi:
They'll have young children.
00:28:53 Yekemi:
So when they get these flats or houses, it's completely empty.
00:28:56 Yekemi:
There's no furniture at all, no white goods, no sofa, no beds, nothing.
00:29:00 Yekemi:
So the option is that they make a purchase and they furnish their homes.
00:29:05 Yekemi:
There's also a furniture leasing scheme that is available with the local councils.
00:29:10 Yekemi:
But what we do is that we give them these items completely free of charge.
00:29:14 Yekemi:
And we wouldn't be able to do this without the help of the community.
00:29:17 Yekemi:
So the community will donate their pre-loved sofas, beds.
00:29:23 Yekemi:
mattresses, things like that, beddings, curtains, things like that to us.
00:29:27 Yekemi:
And as long as they're in good condition, we then provide these items to people that need them.
00:29:32 Yekemi:
And the way we operate is through appointment to the support worker from that agency will make contact.
00:29:38 Yekemi:
There's a whole form and a procedure and they come with the client and it's set up like a showroom.
00:29:45 Yekemi:
So we make sure it's one appointment at a time because we want to preserve dignity.
00:29:49 Yekemi:
We don't want multiple people kind of selecting at the same time.
00:29:52 Yekemi:
So it's set up as a showroom and you come through, you see sofas, you see bedside cabinets, you see wall art, and you can literally pick what it is that you need.
00:30:02 Yekemi:
And when you pick what you need, there's a name or code written on the item and our team will then deliver these items to the people's homes.
00:30:10 Yekemi:
So the service is completely free, including delivery to their homes.
00:30:13 Yekemi:
To give you an idea, we furnish between 600 and 800 homes every year.
00:30:18 Yekemi:
So it's very, very busy.
00:30:20 Yekemi:
And recently we were part of an initiative by the Royal Foundation around furnishing 24 homes over the next couple of years.
00:30:29 Yekemi:
And our contribution to that was clothing storage.
00:30:32 Yekemi:
So we helped to provide chest of drawers and cabinets for those homes.
00:30:37 Yekemi:
So it's a very busy part of what we do and it's a primary part of what we do.
00:30:41 Yekemi:
Off the back of that, we then noticed a need for food parcels.
00:30:46 Yekemi:
So people that come to us
00:30:48 Yekemi:
sometimes, not all the time, could also do with some support around food because there's a hardship and poverty element to it sometimes.
00:30:55 Yekemi:
So we have, I would say, one of the most generous food banks in the area.
00:31:00 Yekemi:
If you come to us, you get six days of food parcels where a typical food bank will give two or three days and it's more of an emergency food parcel, but we give six days worth.
00:31:09 Yekemi:
And this particular service is not a referred service like the furniture one.
00:31:14 Yekemi:
So the furniture one, you can't just phone us or turn up.
00:31:17 Yekemi:
It needs to
00:31:18 Yekemi:
be through one of these support agencies.
00:31:21 Yekemi:
So, but with the food parcels, you can just e-mail us, you can phone us, you can just come here and say that you are in need of a food parcel and we'll put one together for you.
00:31:30 Yekemi:
And we take into consideration things like, you know, dietary requirements, you know, so vegan, halal, gluten free, and so on.
00:31:38 Yekemi:
So it's really well thought out and we, we use the eat well kind of pallets so that you're getting your protein, your vegetables, you're getting your carbohydrates and it's about
00:31:48 Yekemi:
balanced nutritious meals.
00:31:50 Yekemi:
We also take into consideration situations where there's a young person in the home that could end up needing to make their own dinner.
00:32:00 Yekemi:
And it could be a 10 year old, 11 year old, but based on the situation in the home, whether it's addiction or whatever, this young person might actually need to make their own meal.
00:32:10 Yekemi:
So we have special parcels for that, something that's quite easy for a young person to do.
00:32:16 Yekemi:
And I'm particularly excited about how that's evolved because they've now partnered with a local school that identify that some of their young people, this is a secondary school, they've identified that some of their young people are in situations where they're maybe not actually getting meals as they should and just with the home dynamics could do with a little bit of support.
00:32:37 Yekemi:
And I felt really touched that these head teachers and principals thought about Somebody Cares to come to.
00:32:44 Yekemi:
So they came to us.
00:32:45 Yekemi:
We now provide
00:32:46 Yekemi:
food parcels to specific young people in the secondary school.
00:32:50 Yekemi:
And we're hoping to roll that out to other secondary schools that probably have a similar challenge.
00:32:56 Yekemi:
So those are the two main services that we offer.
00:32:59 Yekemi:
And then most recently to deepen our relationships with schools and to invest in young people, which I have a heart for based on a couple of other hats that I have.
00:33:08 Yekemi:
We started an employability program where we took on a small shop in the city center and we partnered so far with two
00:33:17 Yekemi:
so that young people between the ages of 16 and 17 that have additional support needs or that are at risk of leaving school without qualifications can come and get retail work experience with us over a 12-week period.
00:33:33 Yekemi:
And so they work in the shop with a shop manager from the charity and they gain this kind of retail experience.
00:33:38 Yekemi:
So they come in, they learn how to sort donations, how to do a display, how to dress a mannequin, how to use a card machine, how to talk to a customer, you know, and ask what they want, good listening skills, taking a task from the start to the end.
00:33:53 Yekemi:
And it's been so rewarding to see their development over that 12 week period.
00:33:57 Yekemi:
So that's a summary of what we do at the charity.
00:34:02 Sally-Anne:
Fantastic.
00:34:04 Sally-Anne:
And I'm guessing that some of these ideas around the food parcels and how you're expanding that and partnering with schools and the shop and so on, you're really expanding that idea, aren't you, in lots of different practical ways.
00:34:20 Sally-Anne:
I'm guessing that's been happening since you took on the role.
00:34:25 Sally-Anne:
Is that the case?
00:34:27 Yekemi:
Yes, the employability piece started just in September, just past September.
00:34:32 Yekemi:
And it was one of these things where we already have so much going on as a charity.
00:34:37 Yekemi:
So as you can imagine, with the furniture side, we have vans, we have drivers, we're going back and forth, picking up and dropping furniture.
00:34:46 Yekemi:
We've got a busy food bank.
00:34:48 Yekemi:
I mean, our food bank gives away something like 180,000 meals a year.
00:34:52 Yekemi:
And so you can imagine the faces of my team when I said, actually, I have an idea about an employability
00:34:57 Yekemi:
we could just throw on top of all that.
00:35:00 Yekemi:
So but once they kind of understood the vision and the schools were really excited about it and definitely saw value and straight away could identify young people that would benefit from it, the team really kind of banded together and made this idea come to life in a way that was really exciting for me.
00:35:18 Yekemi:
And for them as well, it was a themed shop.
00:35:21 Yekemi:
So we started out being a Christmas shop at the end of last year, and then it evolved into a weddings and gift shop.
00:35:27 Yekemi:
And it's a way to evolve into a vintage and baby shop.
00:35:31 Yekemi:
And so just that excitement, something different and the young people are excited about it.
00:35:35 Yekemi:
So yeah, kind of injected a bit of my entrepreneurial streak into things delicately.
00:35:43 Yekemi:
But yeah, I think it's exciting.
00:35:45 Sally-Anne:
Yeah, expanding, right?
00:35:47 Yekemi:
Yes.
00:35:48 Sally-Anne:
Seeing the potential, seeing what's possible.
00:35:50 Sally-Anne:
You know, at the heart of all of this, and you used this word, is the dignity of the individual, isn't it?
00:35:56 Sally-Anne:
That's what I'm hearing really powerfully in the way you're doing this.
00:36:01 Yekemi:
Yeah.
00:36:02 Sally-Anne:
The respect for individual needs is really clear.
00:36:06 Yekemi:
It's our top priority because people are going through so much.
00:36:10 Yekemi:
And even though it sounds like food, furniture, for a lot of people, it's life or death.
00:36:16 Yekemi:
For a lot of people, it's their mental health.
00:36:19 Yekemi:
It's being able to not worry about furniture and focusing on getting a good job, focusing on looking after their children.
00:36:28 Yekemi:
They don't have to worry about food, for instance.
00:36:30 Yekemi:
They can then focus on themselves.
00:36:32 Yekemi:
For some people, it's the difference between being able to invite friends over, right?
00:36:36 Yekemi:
I mean, some people have one plate, one mug, and as a result, they feel uncomfortable people coming over because they feel like they can't entertain.
00:36:46 Yekemi:
And so just saying, here's a set of cups and saucers and cooking utensils, it means so much.
00:36:52 Yekemi:
And so dignity is at the heart of what we do.
00:36:56 Sally-Anne:
When you look back, let's take a moment.
00:37:00 Sally-Anne:
to look back over your professional career and what has led you to where you are now.
00:37:07 Sally-Anne:
If you could give me one thing that you've learned, what would that be?
00:37:14 Yekemi:
I've learned that it's important to follow the light.
00:37:20 Yekemi:
And sometimes it might mean that you need to acknowledge fear, but not let it hold you back.
00:37:30 Yekemi:
And so for me, fear played quite a big role in decisions I didn't make or made over the years.
00:37:36 Yekemi:
And looking back, I think being able to scrutinize myself, why are you feeling this?
00:37:43 Yekemi:
The reasons were anything from people might not approve.
00:37:47 Yekemi:
I said, why did she do that?
00:37:49 Yekemi:
Or feeling I'm going to not be accepted.
00:37:53 Yekemi:
Sometimes there was always this yin-yang between the approval and the acceptance.
00:37:57 Yekemi:
I've changed careers quite a bit.
00:37:59 Yekemi:
The approval, I found I needed that from people that I was leaving, if you know what I mean.
00:38:05 Yekemi:
Leaving the oil and gas sector, I needed to explain to people why I was leaving and getting them going, oh, yeah, that makes sense.
00:38:11 Yekemi:
I can see why you're doing that.
00:38:13 Yekemi:
I really didn't get that.
00:38:14 Yekemi:
I got, what are you doing?
00:38:16 Yekemi:
Why would you go from being an engineer to being in marketing?
00:38:20 Yekemi:
Why would you leave a good job and start your own business?
00:38:24 Yekemi:
And that held me back.
00:38:25 Yekemi:
And even went ahead and did certain things, I always had this feeling in me that I was maybe there's something wrong with me.
00:38:32 Yekemi:
Maybe I'm just restless.
00:38:34 Yekemi:
And sometimes the fear was coming from, what if I fail?
00:38:39 Yekemi:
What if it doesn't work and everybody laughs at me?
00:38:43 Yekemi:
And so that approval piece was huge.
00:38:46 Yekemi:
And I think if it wasn't so significant,
00:38:50 Yekemi:
I think there would have been less pain.
00:38:52 Yekemi:
I think I still did what I wanted to do, but there was just a lot of pain, a lot of tears, a lot of second guessing.
00:38:58 Yekemi:
A lot of the way I showed up was so vulnerable that I wish I was more confident.
00:39:06 Yekemi:
I wish I trusted myself more and I wouldn't have had to be in so much pain, actually.
00:39:12 Yekemi:
And the acceptance piece has become more and more important because again, you're in engineering, you leave engineering, you go into marketing.
00:39:19 Yekemi:
You want people in marketing to accept you.
00:39:21 Yekemi:
But understandably, you get a bit of what are you doing here?
00:39:26 Yekemi:
Because what you're an engineer, what you're doing here now?
00:39:28 Yekemi:
And sometimes people are open, they share what they know and you're embraced into the new sector or community.
00:39:35 Yekemi:
But there's a fear that you won't be and that you'll be treated with suspicion maybe.
00:39:41 Yekemi:
So what I've learned over the years is, I guess, that self-trust that I mentioned and that fear, in my experience, never completely goes away, but it's making sure that it doesn't become the reason you're not exploring what you want to explore.
00:40:00 Yekemi:
And for me, that's allowed me to change careers four or five times.
00:40:05 Yekemi:
It's allowed me to make decisions that maybe I had to go and revisit later on, but
00:40:10 Yekemi:
I certainly, like my friends would say, I don't mess about.
00:40:14 Yekemi:
I just make the decision.
00:40:18 Sally-Anne:
But you do listen.
00:40:20 Sally-Anne:
I do.
00:40:20 Sally-Anne:
So the fear of disapproval has caused you to pause from time to time.
00:40:27 Sally-Anne:
It's probably done a little bit more than that, as you just described.
00:40:29 Sally-Anne:
It's been very difficult and painful at times too, but you haven't let it stop you.
00:40:35 Sally-Anne:
There's been a greater need or a larger purpose
00:40:39 Sally-Anne:
that has spoken louder, hasn't it?
00:40:41 Sally-Anne:
So the fear doesn't go, but you kind of put it in its place.
00:40:44 Yekemi:
Yeah.
00:40:45 Sally-Anne:
Right?
00:40:46 Sally-Anne:
What I'm hearing is that you still listen to it, and that's important, it seems to me.
00:40:51 Sally-Anne:
And it seems to me, listening to you today, Yokemi, that it has served you well.
00:40:56 Sally-Anne:
So as you look forwards now, what does fearless forward mean to you?
00:41:02 Yekemi:
When I think about fearless forward, it's not necessarily a journey that is without fear.
00:41:08 Yekemi:
I think it's more about making sure that you're looking for ways to move forward irregardless of the fear.
00:41:15 Yekemi:
And that sometimes fear, yes, it's maybe fear of not getting approved of by people, fear of failure, but sometimes fear might be a signal that you're expanding, that you are going out of your comfort zone, that you're trying something new.
00:41:30 Yekemi:
And as long as that forward is there, then you can be less afraid.
00:41:36 Yekemi:
and not be afraid of that next step and not be afraid of taking that step forward and knowing that you can always go back and you can change your mind, you can get support.
00:41:47 Yekemi:
And that just because something feels scary doesn't mean it's wrong or bad.
00:41:52 Yekemi:
And so I think fearless forward is such a great way of framing what we have to do as a society, which is
00:42:01 Yekemi:
day-to-day face uncertainty, face things that are a little bit scary, make decisions where you don't really know how it's going to land, but we have to keep moving.
00:42:12 Yekemi:
And for me, that means following the light.
00:42:15 Yekemi:
You imagine a room that's dark and you're not sure where to go and you're kind of touching the walls and then you see a light in the distance.
00:42:24 Yekemi:
Just follow it, not because you're not afraid, but because you've got this self-trust
00:42:29 Yekemi:
that whatever is at the other end of that, it will be okay.
00:42:34 Sally-Anne:
Yakemi, thank you very much for this conversation.
00:42:37 Yekemi:
Thank you for having me, Sally-Anne.
00:42:41 Sally-Anne:
Yakemi has realized that self-trust isn't about certainty.
00:42:45 Sally-Anne:
It's about ceasing to defer to other people's opinions and instead paying attention to what feels true to you and what drains you.
00:42:55 Sally-Anne:
to where you're just performing and where you're actually in flow.
00:42:59 Sally-Anne:
Clarity, she says, doesn't arrive all at once.
00:43:03 Sally-Anne:
It's built by trying things, getting some of them wrong, learning what fits and what doesn't, and trusting that even a wrong turn can still teach you something useful.
00:43:14 Sally-Anne:
This applies both personally and in leading others.
00:43:17 Sally-Anne:
Leadership is not consensus.
00:43:20 Sally-Anne:
You listen to people, you ask for input, but you may still have to make a decision that not everyone will like.
00:43:26 Sally-Anne:
And when you do, you've accepted one of the harder truths of leadership, that integrity matters more than universal approval.
00:43:35 Sally-Anne:
And for Yakemi, when you feel fear, it doesn't always mean stop.
00:43:40 Sally-Anne:
Sometimes it means you're growing, leaving behind a version of yourself that was built around pleasing others
00:43:47 Sally-Anne:
and trusting yourself enough to keep moving even when the outcome isn't clear.
00:43:55 Sally-Anne:
Thank you for listening.
00:43:56 Sally-Anne:
Fearless Forward is edited and produced by Rob Lawrence.
00:44:00 Sally-Anne:
I'll be back with you in two weeks for our next conversation about how leaders have faced their fears.
00:44:05 Sally-Anne:
To be sure of catching it, go to fearlessforward.org or subscribe to my weekly bulletin at skillfulleaders.com.