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Where food opens the door to conversations about craft, culture & tradition.
The Wild Kitchen Ep. 10 Travis Bader
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Speaker 5: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Wild Kitchen Podcast. Now, as I'm sure you listeners know, uh, my family and I try really, really hard to, uh, acquire as much food as we can ourselves. It's really important for us to take responsibility for the food we eat. Uh, be that through hunting or fishing or gardening, foraging, um, all those little things that we do ourselves to, uh, bring our own food to the table.
And when we don't do that, we, we try to source our food from places we trust, farmers and ranchers and people like that, that we know are raising good food. Now, that doesn't always go smoothly. It definitely isn't easy, and today I'm gonna be talking to someone that I know very well, and you probably know quite well too if you listen to the Silvercore Podcast.
Uh, it's my husband, Travis Vader. And we are gonna chat about a recent bear hunt that we did [00:01:00] that was quite memorable. It was very enjoyable, and uh, without further ado, I think we just dig into this one.
Speaker 6: Thanks, Tiffany. Yeah. It's, uh, kinda neat being on the other side of the table here. I, uh, I kinda like it.
The, uh- ... the headphones are nice. There's not beard hair on the microphone.
Speaker 5: Oh, nice. The seat's a little bit more comfy?
Speaker 6: Oh, very comfy. Yeah,
Speaker 5: that's nice.
Speaker 6: I've written your, uh, name down at the top so I don't forget who I'm talking to.
Speaker 5: Yes, I've done the same thing.
Speaker 6: Excellent.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So- Bear hunt
Speaker 5: So bear hunt, yes.
Spring bear hunt. We always do a spring bear hunt if we can help it. It's, it's a fun hunt.
Speaker 6: We did it again. It's fun to get outside. Yeah. It's warm, the sun's out, the, uh, it's your first time to really get back outside, and we're not always successful. Mm-hmm. We've got a pretty good success rate, but it gets us out there, and that's what I love about it.
And, hey, I'm married to a, a red seal chef, so- ... whatever meat we're able to haul back out, I know is gonna be butchered properly and prepared properly and have [00:02:00] some amazing meals.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: But this was kind of a neat bear hunt, wasn't it?
Speaker 5: This, this was a... Yeah, this was a different one. So we went to, um... It's, it's a joke in our, in our house, in our-
in our inner circle. When people ask where we're going hunting, we always say...
Speaker 6: We're either north of Kamloops or- Yeah ... south of Kamloops. Yeah, yeah. Because it's true.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 6: But why would we tell you? Like, some people say, "Hey, I'm gonna be... I'm hunting by Zipper Mouth Creek."
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: All right. Gotcha. Where are you hunting?
Oh, north of Kamloops. Oh, south of Kamloops.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: What's gonna happen when we hunt in Kamloops? Yeah. What are we gonna say? We're gonna be kinda stuck- I don't know, eh? ... with that one, eh? It's
Speaker 5: like, at some point there's gonna be a north or south version of it, but yeah. So we're north of Kamloops. So
Speaker 6: we were north of Kamloops on this hunt.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yep.
Speaker 6: And it was a hunt where we had seen a lot of bear in the past. Mm-hmm. Diminishing bear population over the years.
Speaker 5: Mm.
Speaker 6: And I had... You know, I, in, in my gut I was always like, "Are we, are we going up too late? Like, what's going on?" So this year I went up super early- Yeah ... and I went with a friend, and [00:03:00] we weren't seeing really any sign.
We were able to... In one day we saw six different bear, which was, which was good. Mm. We were doing our job right, despite the fact that the m- the amount of sign we were seeing was very limited. And in that day, there was, uh, two different, uh, harvestable bears, but they didn't stick around long enough.
Speaker 5: Mm.
Speaker 6: And, uh, then, uh, we got tied up with other work and being out of town, and then you and I went and, uh, decided to go up to the same-ish area-
Speaker 5: Yep
Speaker 6: uh, just to start, and then, and then check out a completely different area. And, uh, you know, it's, it's fun, it's nice to really get an area dialed in, to understand what's going on.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: But it's also neat to branch out and get outside your comfort zone. Oh. And I think we did that on this hunt.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I think, uh, like you said, we've been going to the same spot for a long time.
We know it well. We know there's certain, certain areas that we go to when we... You, you know, you're walking a trail and you come around the bend, there's an area we call Teddy Bear's Picnic. Like, we know that [00:04:00] there's- ... there's areas that are, that are just, like, crawling with bears. Um, but like you said, it just...
It wasn't- uh, the population didn't seem quite as robust as it ha- as it ha- was five, seven, eight y- whatever years ago.
Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 5: Um, and on the other side of it, we kind of just wanted to branch out a little bit and try something new, and I mean, there's lots of, lots of animals, lots of animals in this province.
We just kinda wanted to push ourselves to try something new, see some new ground.
Speaker 6: Yeah. So whenever we try something new, and you know, this is, this is gonna be a hunting story- Yeah ... but maybe there's some tips and tricks that people can pull out of it as well.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: You know, I know some people that charge good money for, for tips and tricks and-
and doing something that, um, that they've done once.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: They've got some good intel. Yeah. They've got some good advice. But I don't know. Why don't we, uh, why don't we see what we can share for free?
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So usually the tactic that we take, especially when looking at a new area, is we like to cover a lot of distance.
Speaker 5: [00:05:00] Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6: And so the easiest way to do that is by vehicle. Yeah. Um, not a fan of road hunting- Yeah ... but you can cover distance and you can see, uh, sign, and that day one, huge area. Day two, you get a bit of an idea where you can start narrowing down on. Day three, you're out on foot and you're getting off the beaten track.
Because if you wanna find something hunting, you have to get off the beaten track. Yeah. That doesn't mean you gotta be miles out into the outback. You can be 10 minutes off the beaten track and see a lot of sign of animals and life, but that's, that's generally the approach we take, and three days is kind of the magic number that- Yeah
I've found. By then, your nervous system starts to calm down. And like, uh, Nicky Van Chandell would say, you're not being chirped by the brown birds and the squirrels aren't chirping you. Everything's kinda getting used to your presence and you're getting used to the woods. So-
Speaker 5: Well, that was, that was one thing that I noticed on this trip in particular.
Speaker 6: Hmm.
Speaker 5: Um, the birds [00:06:00] weren't chirping us, the squirrels weren't chirping us, and I think, I mean, uh, not to sound all, you know, airy-fairy or anything, but I y- I think you and I both really made an effort right off the hop. I know, I know myself especially, um, I can get a little bit, um, goal-driven in fishing- You?
in hunting. You?
Speaker 6: Come on.
Speaker 5: In everything. Uh, and I really like, I, I think as, even as we were driving up, I think I might have mentioned that like I really, like I'm just here for getting out, getting in the woods. I don't care if we get anything. Um, and when we did go out actually hunting, I really, really mentally prepared myself for just like- becoming one with the forest, and listening to the birds, and noticing the little things, and I genuinely did not care if we saw anything.
I mean, it's cool to see animals, but like I didn't care if we brought anything home.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you don't measure your success by whether you come home with meat or you don't. No. Because I find if you do, then that becomes [00:07:00] goal-driven.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: And you start giving off an energy. It's like that old Swiss or Austrian hunter that we bumped into one time.
He's like, "You know what you guys are doing wrong? You're looking for moose thinking, 'I wanna find a moose and shoot it.' " Mm. "You gotta stop thinking that. You just gotta have happy thoughts in your head- Yeah ... and the moose will pop out." Yeah, okay. Sure, Mr., Mr. European Hunter. Then one- what walks into camp? A moose.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: Everyone's thinking happy thoughts, not even thinking about looking for moose. Yeah. So, um, uh, and, you know, talking with other people, uh, talking with people who've written books on listening to the animals and how they communicate, I think there's something to the energy that we give off and the energy that's received by the animals.
I mean-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: o- otherwise, why would they have equine therapy and, and these other modes of, uh, communication and, and therapy and restoration through, through animals if, if we didn't have some sort of a give and take there?
Speaker 5: I- if, if nothing else, it led to a much more enjoyable hunt for, for me anyway. Uh-huh.
Like, I, I had so much fun. Mm-hmm. I, I [00:08:00] genuinely didn't care. We were as, as we always are, uh, we saw, we saw lots of bears, but we were selective, uh, took our time. When we'd see a bear, we'd wait to see if it was a sow with a cub and all, all the rest, and-
Speaker 6: Mm ...
Speaker 5: we saw lots of bear, but we waited for the one that was right, and it all just lines up as it, as it tends to do.
Speaker 6: As it tends to do. Well, you know, we went out to some of our regular areas.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Um, we saw that adult sow.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I don't, I didn't wanna take that adult sow. You didn't-
Speaker 5: She, she's a big bear, but I, yeah, like you said.
Speaker 6: Well, it wasn't what we wanted.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 6: We're looking for a large boar.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: Something that's, uh, gonna produce a fair bit of meat, hopefully has a bit of fat on it after it comes out of torpor.
Springtime the bears are, are typically gonna be smaller. And, uh, so we went a few days into it, and we started scouting new areas. Mm-hmm. And I thought, "You know, let's go to a completely, completely different area."
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So I guess that's where our story begins.
Speaker 5: So [00:09:00] we, we went into it. We're trying something new.
We, uh, went to our old stomping grounds. Just wasn't, vibe wasn't right. We wanna push, try something new, so we, uh, check a new spot. Immediately we start seeing bears.
Speaker 6: Hmm.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like 100 meters into it, sow and cub go running past us. We're like, "Oh, cool. That's, that's a good sign."
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: You know, we'll, we'll put a little bit of flair around this story.
Let's see. Um- The n-
Speaker 5: Sound effects ...
Speaker 6: yeah, the night was becalmed. Curiously silent. It was like a, a windless beach stuck in the eye of a hurricane before the- Between the tempest past and the tempest coming, the acrid aroma of fear lingered in the air, pungently punctuated, coming from the direction of my hunting partner.
Speaker 5: Hmm. Oh, nice. Thank you, pungent and hunting partner. That's awesome. Excuse me.
Speaker 6: [00:10:00] Yeah. No, I, um, I... We weren't feeling too optimistic in the, uh, new area. No. Being brand new and, and checking it out, we... You have reservations. Mm-hmm. Like you say, we saw a, uh, adult sow and her cub go running across the street, and it's like, "Okay, well, let's back up here.
Let's, let's, uh, let's go a different area." Mm-hmm. Went down a different logging road, old, abandoned one. I said, "I think we should get out and walk."
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6: And I just kinda threw that out there, but we didn't get out and we didn't walk.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 6: Because there's always the what's over the next ridgeline, what's over the next side, what's over...
And we're also calculating, okay, I just recently recovering from knee surgery. You're recovering from your ankle injury, which they thought they're gonna have to fuse your ankle, it was so bad.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: No bone to grow back. It's all pulverized.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no cartilage in my ankle at all. Yeah, it's awesome. So,
Speaker 6: so we, we, we gotta take different things into consideration as we're going through.
Right. [00:11:00] And, uh, sure enough, about a kilometer more down the road after I said, "I think we should get out and walk"
Speaker 5: Another bear
Speaker 6: Yeah. See an adult boar.
Speaker 5: That's a good size.
Speaker 6: Good size. Yeah. And you know, usually something that I keep in mind is these bears that stick around and they feel like they own the turf-
Speaker 5: Yeah
Speaker 6: those are the ones that are worth taking. The ones that skedaddle pretty quick are the ones that, uh, okay, fair enough, we know there's bears in the area, and they skedaddle for a reason, and they're usually smaller.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Uh, this one stuck around just long enough and then boogied on off.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we find that, um, the biggest bears we've taken have been the, the, the day walkers- Yeah
the ones that just don't care, and they'll be, like, wherever they wanna be in the prime spot because they've, they've earned it.
Speaker 6: Mm.
Speaker 5: And, um, yeah, like you said, we're just kinda coming in, into the area, and we're seeing smaller, good size bears, but smaller and-
Speaker 6: That was, what? 11:30, 12:00 in the afternoon.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Like, like usually you're [00:12:00] gonna be seeing most activity in the morning- Mm ... and in the evening, and the big ones will really come out at nighttime, uh, right around evening-ish, but this was middle of the day.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Okay, so that's promising.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So, um, all right, let's, let's back the vehicle up a little bit- Yeah
and, uh, wait.
Speaker 5: Mm.
Speaker 6: The old trick is if you're driving down a road and you see one and it spooks off, keep driving.
Speaker 5: Mm.
Speaker 6: Go a kilometer or two. Park the vehicle. Walk on back.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Guess what? You're probably gonna see it come back. You know, bears are creatures of habit.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: If you see it at one place at one time on one day, you're probably gonna see it the next day at the same time in a very similar place.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So we go, we do our walk, park the vehicle back. We wait and wait, nothing, not hearing anything. Walk way past it. It was hot out.
Speaker 5: Yeah. It was pushing 30 degrees.
Speaker 6: It was so hot.
Speaker 5: Yeah,
Speaker 6: it was really hot. And, uh, but we're seeing some interesting areas- Mm ... and boar sign-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: which, which was good. [00:13:00] And, uh, how long do we give it there?
Give it some time.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think about 45 minutes, an hour or so. Just kinda hung out.
Speaker 6: Mm-hmm. Walked on back. Okay, didn't see it. Walked up to where it scooted on in- Mm ... 'cause if you scare a bear, generally its instinct is to retreat back the path that it came from. Yeah. It was safe where it came in from. It didn't encounter any difficulties or obstacles, so without having to think, that's the place it, it'll usually run back in.
So I hiked off into the boo- bush for a little bit and, and, um, I could see trails and sign and okay, this is promising.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Um, went back to the vehicle, got in that and okay, let's, uh... We- On our hike, we ended up hiking far enough around that we could see the logical conclusion of where this road would go and felt, you know, I th- I think we're better off checking out a different spur.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So we did.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6: So we're driving up this new spur. Now we're getting around [00:14:00] what, 12:30-ish?
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was, like, getting close to nap time.
Speaker 6: Yeah, getting close to nap time. And we come up on this older clear cut.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6: And on the right-hand side we see a large color-phase adult boar.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was a nice bear.
Speaker 6: It was a nice bear.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And it stuck around a little bit.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: Like, little bit- Yeah ... when I say it didn't immediately run off, but by the time that we got out of the vehicle to take a look, bang, it, it's off. And it was in some pretty kinda rough terrain, being an- Yeah ... older clear cut, and it was, uh, steep with, on the edges extremely steep.
Yeah.
Speaker 5: As we later found out. Yeah, for people that don't know color phase, this isn't... We're not, not talking about a grizzly bear. This is, like, a black bear that is sort of brownish.
Speaker 6: Yes.
Speaker 5: It's... They, they ran- Black bears range in color quite a bit in BC, and so this guy was, like, nice big-bottomed s- you know, stovepipe legs, brownish bear.
Speaker 6: Yeah. And in [00:15:00] BC everybody wants to find themselves a nice color-phase bear. Yeah. 'Cause that's sort of the anomaly. You usually see, you see the, the black bears- Yeah ... with the brown snout. The, you see those ones everywhere. All black bears are gonna be a little rare. Th- White chevron on the chest, a bit rarer.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And then you go down Lake Idaho with our buddy Brad Brooks, and he's like, "Oh man, I'd love to get one of those jet black bears." "All we have are these c- these color phase ones down here."
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Everybody wants what they don't have.
Speaker 5: Yeah, totally. Yeah. So we were excited.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we were excited.
Speaker 5: We see this bear and we're like, "Oh, that's a nice bear."
That's the biggest bear we saw so far, uh, stuck around. It was... Yeah, it was promising.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So-
Speaker 5: So, so yeah. So we figure we go, go take a little, uh, ride up the road, give it some-
Speaker 6: No, we didn't.
Speaker 5: I thought we did. I thought we went up the road. You're getting
Speaker 6: things out of order.
Speaker 5: Oh, my God. Okay. Sorry, what'd we do?
Speaker 6: So we backed the vehicle up.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: We parked it. We waited to see if it came out.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 6: We then [00:16:00] took a hike up to the area where it was. Yeah. And there is a hillside with a whole bunch of dead fall. It was pretty difficult to navigate and hard to be quiet as we went up there. Yeah. And we thought, "Let's just sit here and wait."
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: There's a lot to be said for waiting. Everybody likes to go and run in and chase. "I saw it here, let's chase it." No. You're not gonna outrun the thing. No. Maybe, maybe it beds down and thinks, "Uh, I don't care. I don't see, um, you can't see me," whatever.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Maybe you run into that, but more often than not, you're just gonna end up spooking them.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So we hiked up the hillside about halfway or so-
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm ...
Speaker 6: uh, in this old clear-cut, and there were some trees set up and-
Speaker 5: For the shade.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Which is nice.
Speaker 6: It was so hot. And, uh, we sat down.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6: And we just sat there nice and quietly, eating our vitamin C, vitamin Hawk- Hawkins
Speaker 5: cheesies. Yes, Travis' vitamin
Speaker 6: C.
I have harvested- Quietus snack ... more animals with my crinkle, crinkle, crinkle, and my hunting partner just looking at me like, [00:17:00] "Well, shut up." It
Speaker 5: is truly the loudest snack you could possibly eat.
Speaker 6: I get it out of the hard plastic case, I put it in my mouth, and crunch, crunch.
Speaker 5: Yep. Yep.
Speaker 6: But we waited there for about an hour and a half.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And nothing came out.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Okay. Then-
Speaker 5: Then we had nap time.
Speaker 6: You're fast-forwarding again. So we go back to the vehicle. We're driving out to an area where, um, we had, of course, hadn't been. Yeah. We're gonna explore some more, and we bump another bear.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Just close off the side of the road. It was, uh, it was hard to see.
It looked small.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And, uh, it would've been a juvenile black bear.
Speaker 5: Yeah, for
Speaker 6: sure. And just saw a bit of it parked. It didn't move, and so I'm getting out and I'm looking, and it boogies up a little bit further. And like, wow, this is, this is a lot of bears. Yeah. So, so far now we've seen mama, cub, that's two.
Yeah. Boar down below, [00:18:00] three. Four is gonna be colored phase. Five now is this juvenile.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6: This is all in one, one area. Like this is, this is interesting. Yeah. Okay. So we drive further, checking out some spur roads, some promising looking areas, and thought- As you said, it's feeling like nap time. It's feeling- It's hot out.
Yeah. So I park the truck on a little bit of an incline on a bit... It's, well, a steep-ish, ish-
Speaker 5: Mm ...
Speaker 6: incline, so we can lie back, feel comfortable, windows down, and got ourselves nice and comfortable inside the truck and figured, well, let's have a little nap, and we'll go back, and we'll see if we can find- Yeah
this color phase bear.
Speaker 5: Yeah. So I'm just falling asleep, like eyes heavy, falling asleep. It's warm. And then you say, "Did you hear that?"
Speaker 6: Oh, you didn't hear it?
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 6: Okay.
Speaker 5: No, I didn't at first, and then I heard it after you said that. It allowed cracks. And there is a distinctive noise that bears make that is [00:19:00] different from like...
Yes, gross. Everyone calls them, what are they?
Speaker 6: Grizzly birds?
Speaker 5: Grizzly birds.
Speaker 6: And- Because they scare the-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: poop out of you when you go. They don't move until you're right beside you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and then they scare you, 'cause it's like a c- crashing noise. F-
Speaker 6: f- f- f- f-
Speaker 5: f- f- But bears make a lot of noise when they go through the woods, especially in sort of a drier wooded area that we were in.
Like, they're breaking branches, and it's loud. Mm. And they walk at a certain pace that is, is quite distinctive. So we're sitting there, and there's a bit of a, like a brush pile beside us, so we can't really see. And, and as well, this whole area is like, there's roads and stuff, but there's the, the, the hills in between the roads are very steep.
Speaker 6: Mm.
Speaker 5: So we couldn't see- What we were hearing, but we knew the general direction of what we were, what we're hearing. So we sat there and listened, and listened.
Speaker 6: And we could hear it, and it sounded like, man, this is close. Yeah. Like, how do we get out of this vehicle-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: without scaring it away-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: [00:20:00] so we can then load up.
It's not like, like I was in Texas hunting, and my hunting buddy, Trevor, says, "Trav, just whatever you do in Canada, just do the exact opposite here in Texas." Yeah. You can have loaded firearms in the car. You can shoot from the car if you want. Well, we don't, we, we can't do that in Canada. No.
Speaker 5: I wouldn't want to either, but you can't do it in Canada.
Speaker 6: So we very, very quietly get out of the vehicle, get our rifles together, and Tiffany, you take an observation point- Yeah ... around the corner, up a bit of an embankment- On an
Speaker 5: anthill ...
Speaker 6: on, oh, was it on an anthill?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was sitting there getting bitten by red ants the whole time. It was like trying... Sitting there sweating myself to, to like dehydration state w- getting constantly bitten by ants.
It was awesome. And then hearing the crack of a bear, so there's all this excitement and-
Speaker 6: Well, you were my overwatch. No, I know. You were my protection because I was down there-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: [00:21:00] super-duper close to where this thing is. Yeah. And we don't know what it is. No. We do know that there's grizzlies in the area.
Yeah. We've seen-
Speaker 5: Big grizzlies.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we've seen sign. We've seen big grizzlies there before. Mm-hmm. And we can hear this thing snapping and cracking through, and I'm standing there in a place where I'm anticipating whatever it is making this noise is gonna come on up. And I figured it was by itself. It didn't sound like mama with cub making different- Mm
noises back there. It sounded like one bear.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: After, like, and it is hot out, and so there's that level of impatient because of discomfort, too. Yeah. You've got the ants and the sun on you, and I'm standing there with, tired, woken up from my nap.
Speaker 5: Damn bear.
Speaker 6: And, uh, so I start walking over to the edge of where the road is- Mm
and it goes down a steep embankment, and as I'm walking over, I can hear this thing coming up around the same [00:22:00] area. I'm like, "Okay, if this is a grizzly bear, if this is a m- mama with cubs- Yeah ... if this is anything that's gonna get startled and its first response is to be attack before running away, I'm not giving it the best chance of, of-
Speaker 5: Of a treat?
Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah. So as it's coming up, I'm like, "Uh, it sounds so close." Yeah. I know I'm gonna take a few steps backwards, and the wind was swirling everywhere.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And I thought for sure it was gonna scent me.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: But it either didn't or it didn't care.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So I set up a little bit around the corner, and I'm waiting and watching, and you probably...
All of a sudden I could see something through the brush- Mm-hmm ... and I can kinda cut through. It had come up now f- to the top of the hill. It was still pretty obscured, and I just saw black.
Speaker 5: Yeah. You kept, I was sitting at that higher spot that you mentioned, and you look at me and you're touching, like, the stock of your rifle, which is black.
And I was like, [00:23:00] "Oh, okay, okay." I'm not great with hand signals. I'm kind of famously bad with them. But you're pointing out, like, okay, it's a black bear. Okay, good. And I s- I can't see anything. I'm still just getting bitten, watching you pointing at your stock.
Speaker 6: On my Sako Finnlight?
Speaker 5: Yes, on your Sako
Speaker 6: Finnlight.
At, at the adjustable cheek riser- Yes, yes ... on it that is black in color.
Speaker 5: Yes, exactly.
Speaker 6: Yes.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 6: Get a plug for Sako. Using
Speaker 5: Norma ammu- using Norma ammunition.
Speaker 6: Oh, I love that. Yeah. I, oh, yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: We, we can talk about that one afterwards and- Yeah ... but, um, yeah, I'm a big fan. Anyways, get the plug for Sako in there, get the plug for Norma in there.
Yeah. Wouldn't chat about them unless I believed in them.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: And so I'm pointing at it-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: hoping you get the idea this is black, so it could be a takeable thing. Mm-hmm. Be alert, right? Get yourself ready. And so you're, you're not in the most comfortable position, I could tell.
Speaker 5: No, and I was also not in an area where I was...
Like, you know when you're sitting at an angle where it's like you're kind of afraid you might slide if you try to stand up? Hmm. Um, it was a bit of a scree pile, [00:24:00] and i- it wasn't, wasn't ideal. I was sort of quickly jumped in there to be out of sight from where we figured the bear would be, but be able to see you and-
Speaker 6: And I'm downrange.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And I'm moving around.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So there's a lot of trust, obviously, in you and making sure there's muzzle control- Yes ... and, and, uh, knowing what you can do.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: And, um, then I move myself around the corner, and it's walking up. 15 meters from me-
Speaker 5: Mm ...
Speaker 6: was- Not a large- No ... but adult boar.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: And it's stood there- Mm
and looked at me, and I'm looking at you, like, "Can you see it?" Could you see it?
Speaker 5: No, I didn't see the bear at all in that, in that interaction.
Speaker 6: Okay. Well, I'm s- I'm looking at it. Mm. It's looking at me. It's trying to figure out, like, what's going on. I'm like- Yeah ... you know, it's a legal, it's a legal bear. I can- Mm
I can take it. In BC, you can't take a bear in the company of other bears.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: So it, what it's looking for is it doesn't want you to take a sow with [00:25:00] cubs- Mm ... and then not have a fighting chance for these cubs to survive, and so that's, that's one of the rules, right? Mm-hmm. Um, but this is a legal bear to take, but I wasn't interested.
And maybe, maybe I was giving off that energy to the bear, like, "I'm just not interested in you."
Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe. I don't know. These bears were like they did not care. In this area, they just were like, "I'm just doing..." They- They're like
Speaker 6: honey badgers ...
Speaker 5: they did not give a fuck. Yeah. No, they didn't care. They were just like, "Eh, this is my place.
This is what I'm doing." I don't know, like you said, I don't know if it's a vibe we're putting out, but- Mm ... they were just like, "I'm not, I'm not worried. I have nothing to be concerned about." Yeah. Came up and... So yeah.
Speaker 6: So 50 meters away-
Speaker 5: Yep ...
Speaker 6: adult boar.
Speaker 5: Mm.
Speaker 6: I look at it. We look at each other for a while. Finally I say, "Okay, you can go," and it- Mm
turns around and leaves.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: Fair enough. We have an accord. We have an understanding. There
Speaker 5: you
Speaker 6: go. And I thought, "Okay, now what? Do we try and get back to sleep?" I mean-
Speaker 5: No, like I was wide awake. I was not going- ... back to sleep at this point. What
Speaker 6: were you feeling at the time? How did that feel for you?
Speaker 5: It was, [00:26:00] like in the same way that every time you see an animal, you get, like, this excitement.
Bears are different though. Bears are, like... I always like to say there's something different about hunting an animal that can hunt you back.
Speaker 6: Mm.
Speaker 5: Um, and yeah, no, that's, um, certain level of excitement, uh, nervousness. I always get nervous.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: You know me. Uh, but, uh, yeah, I wasn't going back to sleep at all.
Speaker 6: So there we were, tired but wired.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 6: And we decide, okay, we've been using onX and iHunter side by side- Mm-hmm ... and just testing these two different apps out. Marking the different locations where we're seeing things- Mm-hmm ... gives us an idea so when we come on back, we can, we can, uh, go quiet or- Yeah ... stalk in, whatever it might be.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So in we go. So that's, uh, what was that, bear number six now in that day?
Speaker 5: I, I don't, I lost [00:27:00] track
Speaker 6: Okay
Speaker 5: I don't know
Speaker 6: So then we're heading back- Yeah ... looking at areas, getting closer. The light's getting, uh ... It's, it's getting a little bit later in the day
Speaker 5: Yeah. It's cooling off a bit
Speaker 6: Cooling off
Speaker 5: Yeah And
Speaker 6: I thought, "Okay, we're getting close to where we saw big Bruno- Yeah
Mr. Color Face."
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: We'll pull over. We're gonna hike in from here.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So pull on over, hike, what? I guess about a kilometer and a half or so.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah. It was, it was a bit of a ways. Yeah. Yeah We didn't ... We, we wanted to be far away.
Speaker 6: Yeah. And I find if, if we walk on in, I like to try and walk at a pace where I'm not elevating my heart rate so much- Mm-hmm
that I can't comfortably take 100 meter offhand shot.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: If I'm huffing and puffing, and my heart's going, and I get the rifle up offhand, and there's something 100 meters or less, and I'm just all over the place-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: what, what's the use? And it also keeps me a bit more in tune with my surroundings. I tend to activate my ears and my eyes a [00:28:00] lot.
Nothing gives something away like movement.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: You ... It can be dead still, perfectly camouflaged, and then it moves. You, and something I've been training myself more to do, you use your nose a lot I've noticed. Like, I'll- Yeah ... smell things, but I don't, I don't pay attention in the way that you seem to.
Speaker 5: No, and I I probably look like a moron when I do it, but I walk with my mouth wide open.
Um,
Speaker 6: it- I do that too- Yeah ... but I do that for auditory reasons.
Speaker 5: I, yeah. I d- I do it to hear better.
Speaker 6: Hmm.
Speaker 5: Um, but I, I do. I really ... I pick up smells. You can smell animals that have bedded down recently. Um, I don't find that I smell scat, but you smell the animals.
Speaker 6: Hmm.
Speaker 5: Um, you smell flowers and different plants, and they all have their different scents.
And there are some plants that we see that, you know, when we see certain plants we're like, "Oh, there's gonna be ... Uh, there's probably ... You know, if there's gonna be a bear there, they seem to like being around burdock and dandelions- Hmm ... and all these kinds of things. Um, [00:29:00] but yeah. No. I, I like to go slow, not get o- out of
get winded. Yeah. Walk quietly, which I struggle with.
Speaker 6: And you've got a better eye for the, um, the flora.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, that's where my interest is. I, I struggle sometimes 'cause I, I put my head down when I when I walk- ... 'cause I'm looking for like, oh, there's wild strawberries, or oh, there's that plant.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you spot that like nobody's business, and you also use that
I remember that one time, oh, our- we got a drop in elevation. Mm. Why? Oh, the, the spruce tips aren't, aren't coming out like they were at lower elevations, so we're gonna find more life and animals down here. I'm like, "Oh, yeah, good point."
Speaker 5: Yeah, I w- I mean, at least in the area that we hunt in, we find that the, the nicer, bigger, you know, older bears are gonna be at, at a certain place with certain vegetation, and, and the spruce tips for us we're like, yeah.
If they're like, if they're too overgrown, it's, it's, it's gonna be tough.
Speaker 6: Mm.
Speaker 5: Um, but yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 6: So we hike back in.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6: I'm not seeing [00:30:00] anything. We decide to set back up in the same position where we were before- Mm-hmm ... where we originally were doing overwatch and waiting on Mr. Color Phase there. Yeah. So we start working our way up that hillside, and it's not quiet.
I mean, like it's- No, it's
Speaker 5: so loud ...
Speaker 6: it's dry, and there's so much deadfall, and- Mm-hmm ... it was tough to kinda get over, so we're taking our time.
Speaker 5: It, it was loud enough to, for me to think, "This would be loud enough to scare a bear away." Like if I was around a bear, and I wanted it to go away, I'd be making this much noise.
Speaker 6: Mm.
Speaker 5: So it wasn't quiet.
Speaker 6: We get up into position. I've ... You had your pack with you. Yeah. I just handheld a, um, one of those collapsible Z REST foamies.
Speaker 5: Mm.
Speaker 6: I like those because it keeps you insulated off the ground. It gives you some comfort, and you can, you can spend a lotta time silently- Yeah ... and still. And we get into our position, get ourselves all set up.
You're there beside me. I'm eating my vitamin C, my, my Cheezees and- [00:31:00] Yeah ... which I love so much. You know, Hawkins Cheezees, I've reached out- One of these days ... so many times. I tell ya. Anyways- Yep ... um, and I thought, "You know, I'm backup on this hunt. You're the one who's gonna be harvesting the animal." That was the intention when we went into it.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And, uh, and I'm on backup. You're shooting a 280 Ackley Improved. It's, it's a hell of a round, it's a hell of a cartridge. Yeah. It's got lots of, of power, precision. It's got everything you need, and- Yeah ... um-
Speaker 5: It's a little heavy.
Speaker 6: It's, it- the gun's heavy. A little bit. It's, it's a nice gun. Yeah. It was made by, um, a Ultimatum- Travis
Speaker 5: Spader.
Speaker 6: No, it was made by Ultimatum Actions. Yeah. Pieced together by Travis Spader- Yeah ... uh, with an IBI barrel on it. It's got the carbon fiber barrel. Mm. It's got that muzzle break on it, which helps with the, uh, recoil. I mean, it's, it's a dream to shoot.
Yeah.
Speaker 6: It's deadly accurate. It's a hell of a cartridge. Uh, unfortunately Norma doesn't make 280 Ackley Improved-
Speaker 5: No
Speaker 6: [00:32:00] ammunition, but they do make the 7 mil bullets, and I just hadn't got around to loading into that one. Yeah. I was using my, uh, Sako Finlight. It was a 308 Winchester, and I was using the, uh, the Bondstrike Normas. Mm. The, the cool blue tip ones. And from a marketing perspective, I think that those things stand out really nice.
It's a- Yeah ... k- kind of a neat... But I was backup. And the scope that I was using is made by, uh, ATI, Armament Technologies. It's a SAI optic. Mm. And it's a, it's a 1-6 power scope, so it's designed for things that are fast and close. It's not really designed for long range, but you can do it. You can do a six power shot at, at longer distance.
Mm. But that's not really what it's designed for. And I thought, "You know, this is a newish scope to me. I like it. I've got the gun sighted in. But let me just take a spot down and see what it would look like- ... if I'm looking down the hill and we're behind some cover and it's kind [00:33:00] of deadfall everywhere."
Speaker 5: And this is, this is just, like, five minutes or so after we got ourselves settled up the hill.
Speaker 6: That's right. Yeah. It's about, a Hawkins, one of those small Costco Ha- Hawkins cheesy bags. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah,
Speaker 6: that's about few minutes.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like a 30 gram bag of Hawkins cheesies.
Speaker 6: Yeah. So- So
Speaker 5: not very long ...
Speaker 6: I'm like, "I just wanna make sure," 'cause you got something called height over bore, right?
I wanna make sure that I'm, I don't have the muzzle planted in a, uh, in a deadfall tree- Mm ... while the scope's looking above it, and it feels like I got a good shot. And so anyways, I shoulder the rifle and I'm looking on down just to s- you know, give it a little practice, see what it feels like, make sure- Yeah
everything swings clear.
Speaker 5: And you're not telling me what you're doing.
Speaker 6: No.
Speaker 5: No, you just, like, put up your rifle.
Speaker 6: But you look over at me like, "Do you see a bear?"
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And I, I take my eyes off of scope focus, and I, typically I shoot with both eyes open.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And I put it onto all around focus- And there was a bear there.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I was, it was so crazy. Like, yeah. [00:34:00]
Speaker 6: And so-
Speaker 5: I'm like, "What the hell? Are you serious?"
Speaker 6: Yeah. '
Speaker 5: Cause I figured you were just joking, but no, there's a bear.
Speaker 6: I, I said, "Yes. Yes, there's a bear."
Speaker 5: Yeah. And you said it, like, probably a bit more calmly than that. You're like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a bear."
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I'm like, "What?"
Speaker 6: But it, it wasn't, it wasn't a bear we wanted to take. No. And, uh, so I got the phone out, and I'm filming it, and I'm sending it over to my buddy who... or I guess we were not quite cell reception, so I c- I'm filming it so I can send it over to my buddy who I was hunting with before and- Yeah ... and it had walked up the road that we had walked on, followed closely behind us, and it was starting to make its way up the hillside.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was following our trail.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah. And it got about a quarter of the way up the hillside.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And we could see it, and we could hear it coming up, and then it just kinda lost interest. Yeah.
Speaker 5: So- And we lost sight of where it went.
Speaker 6: Well, it, it came... We lost sight as it was coming up- Yeah ... then it ended up going back down.
We saw it on the road, and we saw it move on down.
Speaker 5: Yeah. And it was, [00:35:00] it looked like a sow.
Speaker 6: Yeah. I, I wasn't positive on that one. Yeah. You were feeling pretty sure that was a sow.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I, I could see that it was, you know, juvenile, um, to adult, smaller. Just it wasn't, it didn't look like something w- we wanted.
No. If we're gonna be taking something, we wanna be able to fill the cooler up. If we're putting the effort in and we're taking a life, we wanna make sure it's gonna be something that's lived its life and will- Yeah ... be able to provide for us now. So then we're back on the hillside just sitting there- Yeah
thinking, waiting. Can't hear this thing anymore.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: How l-
Speaker 5: I, I was actually a little bummed 'cause I was, I was hoping... I was concerned that this black bear that had followed us up the hill w- it might spook away the other, um, color phase that we saw before.
Speaker 6: Or attract it in.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Well, that didn't occur to me.
I was just, I was a little bummed. I was like, "Oh, maybe we're not gonna see this color phase." Like, how many bears are in this area?
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: But the color phase, I'm like, maybe, maybe that's not gonna happen tonight. [00:36:00]
Speaker 6: Well, we've, we spent, what, another hour or two?
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was a while. It, it got to the point where I was starting to get uncomfortable sitting down.
Mm-hmm. I was starting to get bitten by a- bitten by ants again. Oh, yeah. And, um, I was like, "Oh, okay, it's..." I like went, "How long, how long are we gonna stay?" 'Cause when we're bear hunting, I don't really like staying till last light plus that hour. Mm-hmm. Like, I, I like to, you know, pull the plug a little early, um, more so than deer hunting or waterfowl hunting or things like that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, 'cause there's bears in the area. 'Cause
Speaker 5: there's bears in the area. So I, I like just 'cause you can legally shoot, I don't like to take it to that point. So I was looking at my watch thinking, "Oh, okay, yeah, g- we're getting close."
Speaker 6: And I hear w- something low and propeller-like.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Yeah ...
Speaker 6: longer, lower.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And I've been hearing [00:37:00] this, and I keep hearing it, and I'm like, "What the hell is this?"
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And I look to you, I'm like, "Do you hear that? It sounds kind of propeller-like." Like I probably should have clued in, but-
Speaker 5: Well, and that's it too because I should, I should have clued in too because I heard it, but it didn't register that it was a noise that I should be concerned with.
Mm. It didn't register that it could be a plane, it could be a bear, it could be whatever. But like when you said that, I was like, "Oh yeah, I do hear that. I have been hearing that." And you're like...
Speaker 6: It's been some time- Yeah ... that we were hearing it for.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And so we just sit there, and we're waiting, and all of a sudden we hear that familiar snap.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Similar to what I heard woke us up when we're ha- trying to have our nap earlier. Yep. Just drifting off, hear a snap. Holy crow, that's not far away.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 6: Like 30 meters max.
Speaker 5: It was moving the trees too, right?
Speaker 6: Well, it was 30 meters max. As we look down the hillside, so we're up on the hill, [00:38:00] I look to the left, 30 meters down that way.
Okay, there's something kinda moving in there, and okay, we'll just listen. We got our rounds in the chamber. We're waiting and ready.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: I'm thinking, "Okay, probably that little one that we saw earlier." Mm. "The one that we didn't wanna take." But that propeller sound- Yeah ... that low rumble sound, that doesn't sound like something that comes from-
Speaker 5: This was a different...
You, when you asked me how I felt when we saw that, that other small boar- Mm ... during the nap, uh, asked me how I felt. How I felt now was a very different feeling. Hearing that rumbly noise-
Speaker 6: Mm ...
Speaker 5: uh, trigger something in you that I think is probably an important feeling to feel.
Speaker 6: Yeah, very primal feeling.
Speaker 5: Yes. I was feeling a different feeling.
My- I
Speaker 6: was feeling curiosity.
Speaker 5: Yes. No, you, you handle these things more, better than I do. I tend-
Speaker 6: Differently ...
Speaker 5: diff- sure, differently. I get more nervous, Ed, you're standing up.
Speaker 6: Well, at this point, we had heard it start to [00:39:00] move around-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: behind us, and we're trying to quantify, like, how long have we been hearing this rumble for?
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6: Why is it trying to circle us- Hmm ... and wind us? The
Speaker 5: circling is concerning.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So now I'm like, I'm, I'm up, I'm standing, I'm looking- Mm ... and I can't see anything.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: But I can see the alders moving.
Speaker 5: Mm.
Speaker 6: So there's something in there big enough, moving. You're not in a good position because- No
of all the dead fall in the position where you're at. And after a while of this thing circling around us and moving, we hear what sounds like two quick stutter steps forward, a pff, pff, as it comes forward.
Speaker 5: Ah. You scared me again. Yeah, it scared the crap out of me.
Speaker 6: And these two bing, bing, but at the same- Yeah
time it was like it was letting
Speaker 5: ruh-ruh. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Just this loud kind of, uh-
Speaker 5: It, it was ter- it was truly terrifying. Like, I'm not saying this for dramatic effect. It scared the shit [00:40:00] out of me hearing this bear do this. And
Speaker 6: we still can't see it.
Speaker 5: No, we still can't see the damn bear.
Speaker 6: So I got my rifle up. I'm ready.
And I look to you, I'm like, "Get your bear spray out."
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: As opposed to having a rifle swinging around, two of us going at it- Mm ... you're not in a good position. Yeah. I mean, if we can give it a squirt, great, right? But it didn't wanna move. I'm waiting.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6: And it's waiting. And about 10 minutes in, it's still there.
It's not like... And w- I was making a little bit more noise now, and- Mm-hmm ... of course you and I are talking back and forth, and now it's close. Like- Yeah ... 20 meters away. Like, it's close.
Speaker 5: And they can... If anyone's seen how fast a bear can move when they want to, they're fast. Like-
Speaker 6: Don't think you're outrunning them.
Speaker 5: No. You're not w- Don't
Speaker 6: think you're dodging
Speaker 5: them. We're not outrunning. If you do get a shot in it, it's still gonna make it to you.
Speaker 6: Right. And don't think that that round is dropping it right there.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 6: I mean, there, there's two ways that anything dies.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Number one, it's gonna die of a [00:41:00] central, a CNS shot, central nervous system shot.
Speaker 5: Mm.
Speaker 6: You're gonna interrupt either brain or spinal cord. You're gonna get a shot in there, and then you better be on roller skates because the thing's falling. It's dead before it hits the ground.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: But that's a small area. A small area, especially in a moving, charging bear to try and get that headshot.
I mean, if it shoots low, high, left, right, whatever-
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm ...
Speaker 6: um, that's small, especially in the moment, um, all things considered. The second way things die is from, um, cardiovascular decompression- Mm ... uh, typically induced through massive hypovolemic shock. So easiest way to affect that is, uh, if you think about a bucket of water and you wanna drain it, the more holes you put in it, the faster- Mm
you put it in, the faster it's gonna drain. So that just reduces blood pressure to a point where oxygen can't get to a brain. Those are basically, that's the two ways that things die.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: If you get a central nervous [00:42:00] system shot, you're lucky enough to do that, great. Threat's stopped. It's down. It's on the ground.
Mm. We're good. That's small.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: The other way- It could be a great shot. You could blast its heart out of its body-
Speaker 5: Which we've seen ...
Speaker 6: and it'll still live for some time. I know, um, so I trained with this fellow, uh, Sergeant Dennis Tueller. He's from the Salt Lake City Police Department, and a lot of people back in the day would say, "Oh, it's the, uh, the t- we got the Tueller drill, and the, uh, the Tueller ruler, rule, and the Tueller principle."
And he, he basically, he just took a little bit of a, a look at how people die-
Speaker 5: Mm ...
Speaker 6: and how fast the a- average officer can get a gun out of the holster, which is about 1.5 seconds- Mm ... and how far the average individual can travel in that time. And so he'd look, and he said, "The average person can travel 21 feet in 1.5 seconds."
So- Mm ... if there's a threat and [00:43:00] they're within that 21 feet, they've got the ability to do damage to you before you can really even get up and get a shot on. And everyone started looking at that like, "Okay, so as long as they're 22 feet away, I'm safe." Well, no, right? Uh, that's ... He's just talking about an idea.
It's not a rule. And, um, I think it was Frank Magliato who was involved in a shooting as well, and similar thing, I think someone was coming at him with a, a club. But you learn how long, even if you get good shots on s- let's, we're talking about humans right now. Yeah. A fully oxygenated individual, take some good breaths, has their heart blasted out of their body, they can still travel 100 meters and do damage the entire time they're doing that.
So you think of a big bear. You think it's something that's got lots of models, muscle, that doesn't go bang, bang, you're dead, fall down, right? It's, it- We're in a situation now which is kind of precarious
Speaker 5: It's acting in a [00:44:00] predatory way.
Speaker 6: It's big time acting in a predatory way. Yeah.
Speaker 5: This is that whole, like, this animal can hunt you back sort of situation that I was mentioning before.
We, we were... I, I definitely felt like the prey in that situation, which is not a good thought to have in your head.
Speaker 6: Well, see, when things start happening for me, I tend to look at situations and scenarios and how they can play out.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6: And I always play them to a positive conclusion in my head.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Okay, if bear comes out, I get my shot safeties off, fingers on trigger, get cheek weld read- Mm-hmm
I make sure bolt's all the way down. Twice in my life I've been burned by that one. Luckily, the Sako is one of those ones that with the safety on, the bolt stays down. And if it's a little bit up on some rifles, it can be out of battery, and you can go click instead of bang.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And, uh, I'm, I'm running it through, and here's what a successful CNS shot looks like.
Okay, if it comes in quick and I don't get a CNS shot, here's where I move to. What trees can I use [00:45:00] for cover? Which ones can I, uh, move you to? How do I make sure you stay safe? If it comes in and it starts attacking me, my bear spray's on my bino pouch, my knife's in my pocket- Yeah ... my wife's over here. And I just, I play through all of these different scenarios, but each one has a positive outcome.
Yeah. So if things go sideways and I find myself in one of those scenarios, hopefully I've got the right program downloaded that I can quickly start moving to it.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Um, because we both know a guy who was in the jaws of a grizzly bear-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: who fought it off with his pocket knife.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6: It's possible, right?
Yeah. It's... might sound impossible, might sound highly improbable, but when you gotta do what you gotta do, you, you look to whatever you have available. So I'm playing all these different scenarios. I'm holding onto one of the small alders to support my off hand so I can- Mm-hmm ... keep the rifle down, and about 10 minutes or so into this-
Speaker 5: Yeah
Speaker 6: okay, and I look over at you- [00:46:00] And I can see a concerned look on your face.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, I was scared. I, I 100% admit I was like, in my head I'm like, "Hmm, maybe bear hunting isn't for me." Like, I don't- Seriously? Yeah. Oh, 100%. I was like, "You know what? This isn't really fun for me anymore." Like, I don't enjoy this.
Speaker 6: See, my head goes to you could be deer hunting, you could be fishing- Yeah ... you're still gonna have bears in the area, and you could- Yeah ... find yourself in the exact same situation.
Speaker 5: Yeah. No, it's, it's, uh, totally true. But in that moment, I was like, "Yeah."
Speaker 6: I want out.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm like, I don't know. I just like, ugh, you know, I really do like hunting, but maybe like this is just not my thing.
And yeah, and then you look at me and you're like, "Do you wanna move?" I'm like, "Yep." No hesitation. It's just, "Yep." It came from like my gut, let's move.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So I started [00:47:00] packing stuff in my bag. Um, like throwing shit in my bag to get, get everything packed up and get out.
Speaker 6: Your thought process works differently-
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Oh, totally ... when,
Speaker 6: when there's, uh, excitement. Yeah. Now I, and I recognize that in myself. It's not the same as it would be otherwise.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6: I find I tend to get sharpened-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: to certain things. Not to everything. Like, I get sharpened on the certain, um- scenarios that I've downloaded. Mm-hmm. It gets sharp and al- al- and if you throw something new in there, okay, gotta calibrate, gotta calculate.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: But I've hopefully got enough of these scenarios that I can, I can operate well.
Speaker 5: I, I see, like, in my mind, I visualize the Terminator. When, in a stressful situation, you like, like computing things in your brain and like focusing and-
Speaker 6: Well, my hope is that I don't have to compute the second something happens.
Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So th- that's, that's what I'm ... And I've always kind of been that way. I don't know if I was born that way or if I learned to be that way. Yeah. But I [00:48:00] remember when I was, uh, you and I were fishing on the Squamish River and- Yep ... caught my first steelhead- Yep ... something that we've both been working for for years.
Yep. And I got... What did I get? Two. Two that, on that one trip, and hooked into a third.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Which is kind of unheard of on, on a, uh... And Pat Behan was with us, and he's a, he's a hell of a fisherman.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And he's a, uh, like a pretty famous guide, especially in that area.
Speaker 5: He is. He's super f- he's like the m- one of the most passionate anglers I've ever met.
Yeah. He- and he's just like, he's so knowledgeable. He knows that river. Yeah. He knows how big of a deal it is to hook into three steelhead- ... in one day on that system.
Speaker 6: And he's hooting and hollering- Yeah ... and jumping up and down. He was so excited. He's giving me high fives and he's so excited, and then he looks a little pissed.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: He's like-
Speaker 5: I think he was pissed at you. "
Speaker 6: Why aren't you excited?"
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And it's not that I don't get excited.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I compartmentalize it in a weird way, and I l- I'll experience that [00:49:00] excitement later, is what I told him.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I said, "I've got lots of time later to be happy and experience it, but right now I've got, I got f-
Speaker 5: More fish to catch.
Speaker 6: a program to run. I've got tasks to do. I'm- Yeah ... I'm working through right... Like, I don't want my excitement to put me in a position where I'm now unable to think about or be aware of other things that are around me.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Maybe it's a hypervigilance, I don't know. But whatever it is- Yeah ... I've always kinda had this, "I'll have time later to be scared.
I'll have time later to be excited. I'll have time later," whatever it might be. Yeah. And I can, and I can work it through.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And in the moment, I don't know, what did it look like to you when you saw me in the moment?
Speaker 5: Well, I, I think, I think w- we're a good match for a number of reasons, and one of them is when shit goes sideways, I turn into, what is it?
The badger from Fantastic Mr. Fox. Is it a badger?
Speaker 6: I think he is, yeah.
Speaker 5: Or a mole or a badger
Speaker 6: or something. He gives me a signal. He just, like, raises his hand.
Speaker 5: Yeah. He like, he gets like [00:50:00] zoned out eyes and just freezes.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: That's kind of what I- A possum?
Speaker 6: Is he
Speaker 5: a possum? Yeah, he's a possum. That makes so much more sense.
I turn into a possum.
Speaker 6: Okay.
Speaker 5: But I do that for a moment, and then I look at you and you have your shit together, or at least you give the impression or the image of having your shit together, and it, it calms me down. It makes me feel safe. And, you know, the, the stupid m- memes that people are putting out about, like, "I didn't marry a loser," that kind of thing, like, I, I feel safe when I, when things go sideways with you and I know that that's g- gonna be good.
Speaker 6: Well, I have to watch it, 'cause I enjoy it when- ... things are going sideways and the wheels are falling off. I feel like I come into my element.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you do.
Speaker 6: Because I've never truly felt quite as alive as when you're riding that edge of life or death- Yep ... could be, eh, 50/50 option, right?
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And I like that feeling of being alive.
Speaker 5: Mm.
Speaker 6: I just gotta make sure I'm not putting [00:51:00] myself or others in situations that are reckless- Yeah ... or needlessly. And that's when I looked over at you and I'm like, "Okay, hold on. Recalibrate." Am I pushing things here? Am I doing things in a stupid way? Um, I looked to you and I said, "Do you wanna move?" You're like, "Yep."
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's pretty much how I said it.
Speaker 6: And okay, fair enough. You pack your stuff up.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: I'll stay here with my rifle up.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: You work your way over the deadfall.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: You and I are communicating back and forth.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: Okay, you stop now that you've gotten over that one big deadfall, rifle up, I'll move, and we did a bit of a tactical retreat from- Yes
from the bear. But I c- I didn't hear the bear moving.
Speaker 5: No, but i- in all fairness, we were making a... I was like-
Speaker 6: Now you were in, like, "I gotta make noise."
Speaker 5: I was like, "Stomp, stomp," making as much noise as I possibly could to try to, like, sound like something that was bigger than that bear.
Speaker 6: Hmm. Interesting.
Speaker 5: Yes. Y- I [00:52:00] mean, both of our legs are absolutely beat to shit right now-
Speaker 6: Hmm
Speaker 5: um, from like walking through all the deadfall, but-
Speaker 6: Well, we... and we get over that, and I'm listening-
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm ...
Speaker 6: and I'm watching. I told you-'cause you- Yeah ... were in the lead as I was staying behind to where we had that known bear.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And I said, "Just, you know, keep your eyes and ears open to the front as well."
Yeah. I- we've seen multiple bears in the area.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: We don't wanna find ourself in a situation where we're target fixated here, only to find ourself-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: or falling on something or jabbing into a branch or whatever it might be. But let's- Yeah ... just keep our wits about us, and we get... we're going down. You get down to the roadside.
I'm still a little bit up on the hillside, and I look over to my right and I say, "Hey, there's your bear."
Speaker 5: And it was, no joke, the biggest bear. It was huge, and it looked pissed. All I thought was, "Well, now, [00:53:00] I think that, I think that might be our bear, or it might be involved with the bear that was circling us."
It was pissed, and it was big, and it was black.
Speaker 6: It was a tank
Speaker 5: of a
Speaker 6: black bear.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was huge.
Speaker 6: It wasn't the color phase one that we're looking at. No, no. It wasn't a smaller one that we saw in the same area. No. It was a tank, and it was... came on down and was facing us just dead on- Yeah ... from about 80 meters away.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And, um, I stayed up on the hillside a little bit-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: and I put my rifle. We knew this was gonna be your shot. You took a knee.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6: And I'm like, "Just, if it doesn't move, just take it right front on in the brisket."
Speaker 5: Yeah. "
Speaker 6: And if it does move, you know what to do, right?" Yeah. So I'm waiting with an off hand just in case.
Yeah. You talk me through what's going through your head and what you're doing.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so I was still feeling a little nervous from coming down the hill. So that was a big concern for me because, like, I- You know me, I, I don't like taking more than one [00:54:00] shot. I like-- I used to use a smaller caliber rifle when we'd bear hunt before, and I wanted something with a bit more kick behind it, which is why we moved up to the 280.
And so I'm down on one knee, and I'm just like, "Okay, just big, deep breath. Take another big, deep breath." Still watching this bear. It's still sort of standing front ways, and then it starts to turn broadside, and I'm watching it. I still don't totally feel 100%. Take another big, deep breath, and it's moving around a little bit.
And then It comes broadside. Pull the trigger, run through the whole scenario, you know, safety off, gently pull the trigger, keep watching it, and felt like a good shot, and the bear just went like it's like bam, and fell sideways. Yeah. Like, it, it was ... It, it hit that bear, [00:55:00] and that bear went down like, like a ton of bricks.
It thumped
Speaker 6: it. Yeah.
Speaker 5: So my- I was like,
Speaker 6: holy crow. Like, I know you can shoot. I'm like, that was a good shot. Holy-
Speaker 5: Yeah. It, it went down, like just ... There was no, zero hesitation. The bear just dropped. And so I unloaded, loaded another round just in case, uh, if it needed a follow-up shot, and sat there, didn't move.
Speaker 6: And I'm looking at you like, holy crow, that's it. Yeah. Good for you. It's done. You got it. Yeah. And I may have been ... I should have maybe kept my mouth shut because, like we were talking about earlier- Yeah ... you either got a central nervous system shot- Yeah ... or you've got a massive cardio- pulmonary decompression.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6: Whatever it was that's knocked it completely sideways. Like, it jumped up and went on its side. Like, I've shot the hearts out of bears before- Yeah ... and we watch them jump up and do something very similar, right? Yeah. Um, but even with a heart completely obliterated-
Speaker 5: Yep ...
Speaker 6: lungs and heart, the [00:56:00] bears I've shot like that have- Yeah
have still moved. This one, it was like, bang, right there on the road. Like, couldn't get much better than that.
Speaker 5: Well, and, and in the same area, the last two bears I shot were similar. They dropped, and that was it. Lights out, nothing. They were done.
Speaker 6: Mm.
Speaker 5: Right? Died instantly.
Speaker 6: So- Well, I think one of those was a CMS shot.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Um, so this- This time, I'm like, my gut instincts was, "Okay, get ready for a second shot."
Speaker 6: Mm.
Speaker 5: And I'm looking at it, it's not moving, and I didn't take the shot.
Speaker 6: And I was giving you, like, "You got it. We're good." Yeah. Right? "We'll just- let's, let's let it be. We don't wanna spook it off."
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: Because if it's gonna expire-
Speaker 5: Yep
Speaker 6: if you're running after it, any energy it has, it's gonna be get- pumping adrenaline, it's gonna be moving and- Yeah. And then I- we saw it get up and quickly shuffle down the side. I got the rifle up to my shoulder, but before I could- Yep ... it, bang, was over the side of the road down a super steep [00:57:00] draw.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
And then I feel like I'm gonna puke, because now I put a shot into a bear, and it's now down the edge of a super steep hill.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Uh, and I knew in my gut I should've f- I should've been ready to pull that second shot, but I didn't take it.
Speaker 6: So I looked at you and said, "You feel comfortable walking back to the truck"
Speaker 5: Mm.
Speaker 6: kilometer and a half or so back, a couple kilometers, "and I'll walk over, I'll stand on the road, and I'll listen. I'll wait for it to expire." Sometimes bears will have- Yeah ... what they call a, a death moan, and you know, okay, there it is, and it's done. I walk over to the position where it had gone down the side.
I can spot blood. It was a through shot, and- As I'm standing there up on the hillside opposite to where this big black bear went down, I hear a bear moving up there.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: So I don't know if [00:58:00] that bear that you shot was the one that was huffing at us earlier-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: or if the one that was huffing at us earlier is still up there, which I'm kind of feeling that's the one up there, but I know there's a bear up there.
We don't know what kind. Think probably black, but could be, could be grizzly, could be-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: right? And you're walking back to the truck. What were you thinking when you were walking back to the truck?
Speaker 5: Uh, I just kept kicking myself for, for not sitting, sitting on a gun, uh, taking a second shot.
Speaker 6: Hmm.
Speaker 5: Uh, or just, yeah.
I, I, I was, I was kicking myself.
Speaker 6: Feeling emotional?
Speaker 5: No, not emotional. I was still feeling the adrenaline going through, but um, I just was like, "Damn it." You, you know when you have a gut feeling? Uh, even though that bear went down, like really well, and it looked like a great shot, it looked like it was done.
Speaker 6: I didn't think it was getting back up.
No. I figured if we were just quiet, leave it be, it's- Yeah ... it's got no reason to get back up.
Speaker 5: And maybe that, maybe the other bear-
Speaker 6: Ah ...
Speaker 5: spooked [00:59:00] it.
Speaker 6: That's an interesting point.
Speaker 5: Because-
Speaker 6: I didn't think about that ...
Speaker 5: yeah. Maybe those bears were, like scoping each other out and didn't even notice us. Who, I mean, who knows?
But- Hmm ... it was, it, like that- Yeah. I, I don't know. But I was, I was kicking myself because I, I was realizing very quickly that we had a big job ahead of us, and- And the
Speaker 6: sun had now set ...
Speaker 5: yeah, and it, the, and as I mentioned before, is not my favorite time to be retrieving bears on the sides of hills. Um, I, I realize that by making a different decision I could have made our job a heck of a lot safer and easier.
Speaker 6: Mm.
Speaker 5: But we were now into this, and we were gonna have to deal with the consequences.
Speaker 6: So now we have decision-branching scenarios again.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6: We have an active bear up on the hillside.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: A bear that's mortally wounded-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: but it's not going fast enough.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And we have to think, like, the [01:00:00] sun's going down.
Speaker 5: Mm.
Speaker 6: Are we gonna be able... If I go in now to try and, uh, put a final shot to quickly dispatch this bear-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: am I gonna spook it further? Is it gonna- Yeah ... keep going down this super steep hillside? If I let it stay there, usually 45 minutes or so, half hour, 45 after shooting an animal- Mm ... you just kinda sit down and you regroup, make sure you got your stuff together, and you go out and you start your tracking process.
Tracking blood after the sun's gone down is incredibly difficult.
Speaker 5: Well, especially on bears too. They don't tend to bleed a ton.
Speaker 6: Right. They got a lot of hair that'll sop it up.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Uh- And, and also describe what this hillside looked like too. Like, this isn't, like, a big open area.
Speaker 6: Oh, no, no. This is, like, how many year old beside it, cut block- Yeah
which is gonna be large enough trees you can't see through. I'm gonna be thinking about, am I gonna break an ankle, injure myself? Mm. Am I putting you in a position where you're gonna injure yourself? Because you'd already broken your ankle-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: was it two years ago [01:01:00] now, eh? Yeah. We've got a bear on the hillside.
How interested is it on what it's now smelling down here? Do I wanna lose this thing? Do I wanna stalk in closer on this thing and run the chance of a, coming across a wounded, um, angry bear with my head torch on? Yeah. And so playing through all of these different things. You drive on up. I'm already down a little bit on the embankment trying to get an ear on.
As I'm coming down, it's snapping and popping as it goes. I can hear it up, and it's going again. I'm like, "Oh, no, this is not what I want. I don't want this thing moving," or- Mm-hmm ... and gravity's helping it as well, and so we have to make a decision. I tell you, "Be alert. There's another bear on the hillside up above."
Speaker 5: Yeah, which is great news, 'cause I'm just learning this now. I was like, "Oh, crap, we gotta find this bear down this hill, and it's all dark," and like visually this... It's, it's like, um, like a little, uh... I don't- A
Speaker 6: draw ...
Speaker 5: uh, it's, yeah, it's a draw. So [01:02:00] it's like- It's a valley ... it's a steep hill, but like it's, it's steeper on each side.
And it's, it's an original area of like virgin trees with cut blocks on the side. So you, you have this situation where it's like really dark inside of it, but there's also windfall from the edge of a clear cut that you see. Mm-hmm. So there's deadfall everywhere, big trees, super dark.
Speaker 6: Lots of places for it to hide.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And learning about it now, I will say, we did bring it up at the time, but your brain may not have processed these different pieces.
Speaker 5: Yes. As well as going blank, I, I have big pockets of forgetting things. I
Speaker 6: remember, uh, "I'm gonna put your bag
Speaker 5: right
Speaker 6: here."
Speaker 5: Oh, my God. It was like, "Knock, knock, knock. Right here."
I was like, "Yes." I get it. You're like, "Tiff, your bag is right here." I'm like, "Yes." And then I come back, I'm like, "Where's my bag?" And I'm like, "Travis, Travis, where's my bag?" You're [01:03:00] like, "It's where I left it." I'm like, I had no clue. I figured it was, you know, 50 meters down the road. And I couldn't see it. I'm like, "Where's my bag?"
And I'm thinking
Speaker 6: like, "How does she... Why, why is she asking me this?" We made eye contact. 'Cause I always make sure, stop, let's make eye contact. Yeah. Right? Let's do the-
Speaker 5: Yes. It's important. It gets like, it gets pretty rudimentary when I go into this like... It's almost like a fugue state or something. I like, I totally...
I'm over-stressed and over-stimulated, and you have to make eye contact, and physical contact helps, too. Mm-hmm. Like sometimes you put your hand on my shoulder. You're like, "This is where I'm putting it." And it's just like gone.
Speaker 6: So sun's going down.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: I'm snap, popping, cracking down.
Speaker 5: Sun, sun had gone down by that point.
Speaker 6: Sun's-
Speaker 5: Sun had set ...
Speaker 6: down. Yeah. It's getting dark.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And you can watch it in like shades, chook, chook, chook- Yeah ... as it goes. Okay, I'm gonna have to get down here. And anyways, I start hiking down the side and spooking this thing, and it's to the next place, to the next place. It's got enough juice in it to keep going, [01:04:00] and all right, I just need to find some clear shot.
And when it, it's, it's down behind a tree or under a log, you, you don't know what you're shooting at. You don't wanna- Yeah ... just shoot at, at mass.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Anyways, I was able to see, shouldered the 308, fired a round, double lung shot.
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6: Heard immediately the as it forced the arrow as it went on through, but it still decided, "That's it for me.
I'm gonna bee-line down further."
Speaker 5: Screw these guys. I'm gonna tumble down a hill further.
Speaker 6: That's right. And, um, anyways, was able to get to it, and it was dead. Yeah. It expired, and, um, uh, started running through my head now. So we're looking at a bear as a spring bear, so they're gonna be lighter. Mm-hmm. It's not gonna have all the same fat on it as it comes out of torpor, but it's a good size.
We're talking 400 pounds or so- Yep ... full-in, uh, bear, like a [01:05:00] decent size. Got a couple holes in it. Do I wanna gut it out and try and hike this thing out over my shoulder and get covered in blood and stuff, or do I want to, uh, just try and hike it out as is?
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you say this like this was a logical like, "Okay, so am I just gonna hike this bear up this hill gutted or not gutted?"
And in my mind I'm like, "Why? This is a huge freaking bear. You're not carrying this up this hill." Like, y- I've seen you lift a car before, but in my mind this was not, like, this wasn't feasible.
Speaker 6: See, my mind, and you, you might be right, but my mind goes back to pressing over 700 pounds when I was working at the gym back in my, uh, late teens, early 20s on the incline leg press machine- Yeah
where you, um, stack all these things in. It's not like a, a proper 700 pound because it's on this machine, but I'm like, I, I know I've just had surgery, I know I can do this. It'll be painful, but the hard part's getting it on my [01:06:00] back. If I can get it on my back- ... I can, I can do the rest.
Speaker 5: To be clear, and I have zero doubt if you had to do it you could do it, but in my mind it wasn't an essential...
It wasn't a choice that you had to make. Like, in my mind, well, how about we just gut it and then, like ...
Speaker 6: See, this is where your head's coming
Speaker 5: in. Yeah. So then, then, okay, so now at this point my brain's starting to work again. I'm like, "Travis, let's not have this conversation of you carrying an entire bear up a hill."
That, like-
Speaker 6: Parts of it are hand over hand.
Speaker 5: Yeah. It, it was like I'm gonna struggle getting up this hill not carrying a bag, not carrying a gun. Like, not just me climbing up this hill. You carrying a 400-pound bear up this hill isn't, didn't make sense to me.
Speaker 6: The idea of dressing it out with head torches on as well wasn't, wasn't really my favorite.
Speaker 5: No, no.
Speaker 6: With the bear up the hillside- Yeah ... at nighttime with the-
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm ...
Speaker 6: we've been there, we've done it, it's not my favorite thing to do, and we're also thinking about temperature, right? Yeah. Because it [01:07:00] was a pretty hot day, but now where w- where we were we'd gained elevation.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And the evenings are cooling off.
Speaker 5: Yeah. They get cold at night.
Speaker 6: Right. And so our, our magic number from you that you've come up with based on your Red Seal chef training is, uh, what, 10 degrees?
Speaker 5: Uh, like eight. I mean, obviously you get down to closer to freezing it's better, but that sort of eight to 10 degrees I found overnight, it, it will chill it off.
Depending on the animal, de- like, depending on a ton of different things, but I would feel, I wouldn't- There's that balance of like, is this a perfect situation? Is this like a skinned out animal, uh, cut off the bone, whatever, all these things so it can cool off? Is it sitting on, uh, you know, an ice pack with air flow around, like all these things.
Um, so you're not wasting meat. I felt like if, if the temperature was gonna get under 10 degrees, [01:08:00] that eight to 10 degrees, uh, if it was gutted, air circulating around it, we weren't gonna be wasting meat.
Speaker 6: Hmm. So we get in-
Speaker 5: Yep ...
Speaker 6: gut it open- Mm-hmm ... get the guts out Lifted over top of a log
Speaker 5: I might add, very diff- with a l- a lot of difficulty.
Like I... You basically did it yourself. I was very- I know ... little help. I was like- ... no help getting the bear up.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was, um, it was heavy. Mm-hmm. And it was, uh- Awkward ... but, but we wanted it off the ground.
Speaker 5: Yeah
Speaker 6: And cavity down so it- Yeah ... could drain, opened up, so rip- all the way up, ribcage, everything else opened up.
Yeah. And so we could get some airflow going through it. And, uh, skin's on. Yeah. I mean, the skin will retain a fair bit of heat. But, um- Yeah,
Speaker 5: yeah ...
Speaker 6: and the fur can retain heat and everything else. Uh, I'm surprised at how well it cooled off over the night.
Speaker 5: Yeah. It, it was... There [01:09:00] was still like a touch of warmth in the shoulders near the bone, not much.
Legs were cold, like stone cold. Everything was cold on it.
Speaker 6: But we go back- Yeah ... to camp covered in blood.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: And I mean, I'd also taken my knuckle off when I was skinning it, uh-
Speaker 5: Yeah, that, that didn't help. Uh, thank you Montana Knife Company. First time I use that knife and Travis hacks off part of his finger.
Speaker 6: Well, I could see my, uh, you could see underneath it, the, every time I'd bend, you could see my knuckle- The muscles showing ... and the tendon in there. But I, I knew my tendon wasn't cut, so we're good. Mm. And in time that'll all heal up, and it's probably didn't hurt because I'd already axed that finger before, and I don't have-
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah
Speaker 6: much feeling in it anyways.
Speaker 5: Well, there you go.
Speaker 6: But, um, so up the hillside we go.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: Drive into camp.
Speaker 5: Watching for that other bear that we still are, like, we don't know if it's there.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Drive back to camp, wash up, get the blood off us. Mm. Get a bit of a bandage on, get some tape around it 'cause the bandages just weren't holding it, just [01:10:00] kept bleeding.
And-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: and, uh, got a couple hours of sleep.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: Got back out there at first light, and in your head you're positive we'd be coming back to a bear on the pile.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so my concern was bears eating... I, I had, I didn't have a lot of concern about bears eating the meat of the bear. My concern was that there were gonna be bears circling, going for the guts.
Speaker 6: Hmm.
Speaker 5: I didn't really sleep much that night 'cause I was just still adrenaline flowing from the whole situation, and then concern about leaving it. I don't, it wasn't an ideal situation. I, I didn't like leaving it there, but I felt like it was the best choice, uh, to ret- re- like, to retain as much meat as possible, as well, um, you know, for our own safety.
We've got kids. We gotta make smart decisions.
Speaker 6: Yeah. In the, um- Anyways, we get back there in the morning, hike on down. Yeah. Now, when you hiked out at nighttime, I was like, "Oh my God, like [01:11:00] this, this is a hell of a hike out." Like, you were- Well, yeah ... not looking forward.
Speaker 5: No, that's the other thing too. I have a hike at the end of the month, um, and so I was welcoming the exercise, uh, it's- as a bit of prep for it.
But as we walked up that hill, I was like, "Oh, dear God, like I am not gonna have fun tomorrow."
Speaker 6: Yeah. That was, uh, that was something that was going through my head as well. Yeah. Like, hey, w- are you gonna be okay going up and down this? Like, I didn't know if we were gonna get you out of that hillside, 'cause like I say, it was like hand over hand- Yeah
in some, some certain areas. Uh, luckily it proved that I think it was more adrenaline that was- Yeah ... really hindering you the night before.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: And so we got down there and we... awkward position.
Speaker 5: Mm.
Speaker 6: And you said, "Well, tell you what, why don't, uh, why don't we bone it out? Rather than hauling all of the meat back up, let's bone this out."
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: And, uh, and you did [01:12:00] that. So you- Mm ... boned out the entire thing yourself, skinned it back, boned it out, and, uh, that's for me- knee surgery, kneeling down, bending over, big guy, all the areas. Yeah. You made sh- It's my
Speaker 5: favorite part.
Speaker 6: Yeah. You like it. You made short work of it. Yeah. And I said, "Okay, I'll, I'll hike the entire, I'll hike everything out."
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I just kept saying like, "At least let me take the head." And you're like, "Nope." I'm like... I, I kept insisting, and you kept insisting harder, so I was like, "Oh, okay, fine." You're nowhere up the hill. So
Speaker 6: we got it out. Awesome recovery of meat. Yeah. Got a lot of meat off of it- Yeah ... which is, um, which is good.
I was, I was a little concerned on that, but, uh, ended up getting the meat from there and-
Speaker 5: Yeah. Ton of meat.
Speaker 6: Yeah. And, uh, now, now we've got some, uh, meat to process. We were- Yes ... gonna record this around the campfire, but we're too damn tired at the time.
Speaker 5: Yeah. No, there's... It was just wash [01:13:00] up, fall asleep.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
And now, uh, now we're back in town.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: I'm heading off fishing for a few days.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 6: And then I'm gonna return, and immediately on my return, you're heading off for a bow elk hunt.
Speaker 5: Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 6: In Idaho.
Speaker 5: Yeah. And there's grizzlies in the area apparently, right by Yellowstone.
Speaker 6: Okay.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but they can all, they can all pack pistols and-
Speaker 5: All these ladies are walking around with guns strapped to their chest, so-
Speaker 6: Yeah
Speaker 5: it's a different situation.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's like, um, you talk to the Americans, and they're like- Uh-huh ... "Are you kidding me? You guys can't pack a pistol when you're out hunting? What if a bear comes?"
Speaker 5: Yeah. "
Speaker 6: What if you're bear hunting? What if you're bow hunting? Like, all you have is bear spray with you?"
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yep.
Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 5: Yep, it's crazy.
Speaker 6: And then people get, and they'll talk about, "Oh, but the eff- effect- efficacy of bear spray, it, it's so great over top." I don't know. If you've been around bears long enough, I question the stats on bear spray. I don't [01:14:00] discount bear spray. Yeah. I don't think bear spray's bad at all, but I see a lot of things getting lumped into, "Oh, I'm just passively acquiescing.
I'm just- Yeah ... a bear that's walking through. Oh, I got squirted in the face. I'm gone." There we go. Yeah. It's not a predatory aggressive intent bear-
Speaker 5: Yeah ...
Speaker 6: that gets squirted and then disappears. Mind you, a round placed in the right place, and the threat's over.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So.
Speaker 5: It'd be nice to have multiple options.
Speaker 6: Have them both.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that'd be great. Well, Travis, it's been a pleasure. Yeah, it's been fun. It's been fun. We, we, we've... I mean, I've... This is different for the scope of The Wild Kitchen podcast, so, uh, listeners, hopefully you enjoyed this. Um, Travis and I like to hunt quite a bit, so, you know, there may be more of these in the future, but, uh, thank you very much for joining me today.
It's been a lot of fun. It's fun to recap and remember the things that I have, you know, forgotten. [01:15:00] But, uh, thank you very much.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Thanks for having me on The Wild Kitchen.
Tiffany: Welcome to the Wild Kitchen Podcast. Now, as I'm sure you listeners know, uh, my family and I try really, really hard to, uh, acquire as much food as we can ourselves. It's really important for us to take responsibility for the food we eat. Uh, be that through hunting or fishing or gardening, foraging, um, all those little things that we do ourselves to, uh, bring our own food to the table.
And when we don't do that, we, we try to source our food from places we trust, farmers and ranchers and people like that, that we know are raising good food. Now, that doesn't always go smoothly. It definitely isn't easy, and today I'm gonna be talking to someone [01:16:00] that I know very well, and you probably know quite well too if you listen to the Silvercore Podcast.
Uh, it's my husband, Travis Vader. And we are gonna chat about a recent bear hunt that we did that was quite memorable. It was very enjoyable, and, uh, without further ado, I think we just dig into this one.
Travis: Thanks, Tiffany. Yeah. It's, uh, kinda neat being on the other side of the table here. I, uh, I kinda like it.
The, uh- The headphones are nice. There's not beard hair on the microphone.
Tiffany: Oh, nice. The seat's a little bit more comfy?
Travis: Oh, very comfy. Yeah,
Tiffany: that's nice.
Travis: I've written your, uh, name down at the top so I don't forget who I'm talking to.
Tiffany: Yes, I've done the same thing.
Travis: Excellent.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: So- Bear hunt ...
Tiffany: so bear hunt, yes.
Spring bear hunt. We always do a spring bear hunt if we can help it. It's, it's a fun hunt.
Travis: We did it again. It's fun to get outside. Yeah. It's warm, the sun's out, the, uh, it's your first time to really get back outside, and we're not always successful. Mm-hmm. We've got a pretty good success rate, but it gets us out [01:17:00] there, and that's what I love about it.
And, hey, I'm married to a, a red seal chef, so- ... whatever meat we're able to haul back out, I know is gonna be butchered properly and prepared properly and have some amazing meals.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: But this was kind of a neat bear hunt, wasn't it?
Tiffany: This, this was a... Yeah, this was a different one. So we went to, um... It's, it's a joke in our, in our house, in our-
in our inner circle. When people ask where we're going hunting, we always say...
Travis: We're either north of Kamloops or- Yeah ... south of Kamloops. Yeah, yeah. Because it's true.
Tiffany: Yes.
Travis: But why would we tell you? Like, some people say, "Hey, I'm gonna be... I'm hunting by Zipper Mouth Creek."
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: All right, gotcha. Where are you hunting?
Oh, north of Kamloops. Oh, south of Kamloops.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: What's gonna happen when we hunt in Kamloops? Yeah. What are we gonna say? We're gonna be kinda stuck- I don't know, eh? ... with that one, eh? It's
Tiffany: like, at some point there's gonna be a north or south version of it, but yeah. So we're north of Kamloops. So
Travis: we were north of Kamloops on this hunt.
Tiffany: Yeah, yep.
Travis: And it was a hunt where we had seen a lot of bear in the past. Mm. Diminishing bear population over the years.
Tiffany: [01:18:00] Mm.
Travis: And I had, you know, I, in, in my gut I was always like, "Are we, are we going up too late? Like, what's going on?" So this year I went up super early- Yeah ... and I went with a friend, and we weren't seeing really any sign.
We were able to... In one day we saw six different bear, which was, which was good. Mm. We were doing our job right, despite the fact that the m- the amount of sign we were seeing was very limited. And in that day, there was, uh, two different, uh, harvestable bears, but they didn't stick around long enough.
Tiffany: Mm.
Travis: And, uh, then, uh, we got tied up with other work and being out of town, and then you and I went and, uh, decided to go up to the same-ish area-
Tiffany: Yep
Travis: uh, just to start, and then, and then check out a completely different area. And, uh, you know, it's, it's fun, it's nice to really get an area dialed in, to understand what's going on.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: But it's also neat to branch out and get outside your comfort zone. Well- And I think we did that on this hunt.
Tiffany: Yeah, I think, uh, like you said, we've been [01:19:00] going to the same spot for a long time.
We know it well. We know there's certain, certain areas that we go to when we... You, you know, you're walking a trail and you come around the bend, there's an area we call Teddy Bears Picnic. Like, we know that there's- ... there's areas that are, that are just, like, crawling with bears. Um, but like you said, it just, it wasn't- uh, the population didn't seem quite as robust as it ha- as it ha- was five, seven, eight y- whatever years ago.
Travis: Mm-hmm.
Tiffany: Um, and on the other side of it, we kind of just wanted to branch out a little bit and try something new, and I mean, there's lots of, lots of animals, lots of animals in this province. We just kinda wanted to push ourselves to try something new, see some new ground.
Travis: Yeah, so whenever we try something new, and you know, this is, this is gonna be a hunting story- Yeah
but maybe there's some tips and tricks that people can pull out of it as well.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: You know, I know some people that charge good money for, for tips and tricks and- ... and doing something that, um, that they've done once.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: They've got some good intel. Yeah. They've got some good advice. [01:20:00] But I don't know, why don't we, uh, why don't we see what we can share for free?
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: So usually the tactic that we take, especially when looking at a new area, is we like to cover a lot of distance.
Tiffany: Mm-hmm.
Travis: And so the easiest way to do that is by vehicle. Yeah. Um, not a fan of road hunting- Yeah ... but you can cover distance, and you can see, uh, sign, and that day one, huge area. Day two, you get a bit of an idea where you can start narrowing down on.
Day three, you're out on foot, and you're getting off the beaten track. Because if you wanna find something hunting, you have to get off the beaten track. Yeah. That doesn't mean you gotta be miles out into the outback. You can be 10 minutes off the beaten track and see a lot of sign of animals and life, but that's, that's generally the approach we take, and three days is kind of the magic number that- Yeah
I've found. By then, your nervous system starts to calm down, and like, uh, Nikki VanChindele would say, you're not being chirped by the brown birds, and the [01:21:00] squirrels aren't chirping you. Everything's kinda getting used to your presence, and you're getting used to the woods. So-
Tiffany: Well, that was, that was one thing that I noticed on this trip in particular.
Travis: Hmm.
Tiffany: Um, the birds weren't chirping us. The squirrels weren't chirping us, and I think, I mean, uh, not to sound all, you know, airy-fairy or anything, but I y- I think you and I both really made an effort right off the hop. I know, I know myself especially, um, I can get a little bit, um, goal-driven in fishing- You?
in hunting. You?
Travis: Come on.
Tiffany: In everything. Uh, and I really like, I, I think as, even as we were driving up, I think I might have mentioned that, like, I really, like, I'm just here for getting out, getting in the woods. I don't care if we get anything. Um, and when we did go out actually hunting, I really, really mentally prepared myself for just, like- becoming one with the forest, and listening to the birds, and noticing the little things, and I genuinely did [01:22:00] not care if we saw anything.
I mean, it's cool to see animals, but like I didn't care if we brought anything home.
Travis: Yeah, you don't measure your success by whether you come home with meat or you don't. No. Because I find if you do, then that becomes goal-driven.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: And you start giving off an energy. It's like that old Swiss or Austrian hunter that we bumped into one time.
He's like, "You know what you guys are doing wrong? You're looking for moose thinking, 'I wanna find a moose and shoot it.' " Mm. "You gotta stop thinking that. You just gotta have happy thoughts in your head- Yeah ... and the moose will pop out." Yeah, okay. Sure, Mr., Mr. European Hunter. Then one, what walks into camp? A moose.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: Everyone's thinking happy thoughts, not even thinking about looking for moose. Yeah. So, um, uh, and you know, talking with other people, uh, talking with people who've written books on listening to the animals and how they communicate, I think there's something to the energy that we give off and the energy that's received by the animals.
I mean-
Tiffany: Yeah ...
Travis: o- otherwise why would they have equine therapy and, and these other modes of, uh, communication and, and therapy and restoration [01:23:00] through, through animals if, if we didn't have some sort of a give and take there?
Tiffany: I, if, if nothing else, it led to a much more enjoyable hunt for, for me anyway. Uh-huh.
Like I, I had so much fun. Mm-hmm. I, I genuinely didn't care. We were as, as we always are, uh, we saw, we saw lots of bears, but we were selective, uh, took our time. When we'd see a bear, we'd wait to see if it was a sow with a cub and all, all the rest, and-
Travis: Mm ...
Tiffany: we saw lots of bear, but we waited for the one that was right, and it all just lines up as it, as it tends to do.
Travis: As, as it tends to do. Well, you know, we went out to some of our regular areas.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: Um, we saw that adult sow.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: I don't, I didn't wanna take that adult sow. You didn't-
Tiffany: She, she's a big bear, but I, yeah, like you said.
Travis: Well, it wasn't what we wanted.
Tiffany: No.
Travis: We're looking for a large boar.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: Something that's, uh, gonna produce a fair bit of meat, hopefully has a bit of fat on it after it comes out of torpor.
Springtime the bears are, are typically gonna be smaller. And, uh, so [01:24:00] we went a few days into it, and we started scouting new areas. Mm-hmm. And I thought, "You know, let's go to a completely, completely different area."
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: So I guess that's where our story begins.
Tiffany: So we, we went into it. We're trying something new.
We, uh, went to our old stomping grounds. Just wasn't, vibe wasn't right. We wanna push, try something new. So we, uh, check a new spot. Immediately we start seeing bears.
Travis: Hmm.
Tiffany: Yeah, like 100 meters into it, sow and cub go running past us. We're like, "Oh, cool. That's, that's a good sign."
Travis: Yeah.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: You know, we'll, we'll put a little bit of flair around this story.
Let's see. Um- The n-
Tiffany: Sound effects ...
Travis: yeah, the night was becalmed. Curiously silent. It was like a, a windless beach stuck in the eye of a hurricane before the- Between the tempest past and the tempest coming, the acrid aroma of fear lingered [01:25:00] in the air, pungently punctuated, coming from the direction of my hunting partner.
Tiffany: Hmm. Oh, nice. Thank you. Pungent and hunting partner, that's awesome. Excuse me.
Travis: Yeah. No, I, um, I... We weren't feeling too optimistic in the, uh, new area. No. Being brand new and, and checking it out, we... You have reservations. Mm-hmm. Like you say, we saw a, uh, adult sow and her cub go running across the street, and it's like, "Okay, well, let's back up here.
Let's, let's, uh, let's go a different area." Mm-hmm. And went down a different logging road, old abandoned one. I said, "I think we should get out and walk."
Tiffany: Mm-hmm.
Travis: And I just kinda threw that out there, but we didn't get out and we didn't walk.
Tiffany: No.
Travis: Because there's always the what's over the next ridge line, what's over the next side, what's over...
And we're also calculating, "Okay, I just recently recovering from knee surgery. You're recovering from your ankle injury," which they thought they're gonna have to fuse your [01:26:00] ankle, it was so bad.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: No bone to grow back. It's all pulverized.
Tiffany: Yeah, no cartilage in my ankle at all. Yeah, it's awesome. So,
Travis: so we, we, we gotta take different things into consideration as we're going through.
Right. And, uh, sure enough, about a kilometer more down the road after I said, "I think we should get out and walk-"
Tiffany: Mm-hmm Another bear
Travis: Yeah, see an adult boar.
Tiffany: That's a good size.
Travis: Good size. Yeah. And you know, usually something that I keep in mind is these bears that stick around and they feel like they own the turf-
Tiffany: Yeah
Travis: those are the ones that are worth taking. The ones that skedaddle pretty quick are the ones that, uh, okay, fair enough, we know there's bears in the area, and they skedaddle for a reason, and they're usually smaller.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: Uh, this one stuck around just long enough and then boogied on off.
Tiffany: Yeah, we, we find that, um, the biggest bears we've taken have been the, the, the day walkers- Yeah
the ones that just don't care, and they'll be, like, wherever they wanna be in the prime spot because they've, they've earned it.
Travis: Mm.
Tiffany: [01:27:00] And, um, yeah, like you said, we were just kinda coming in, into the area, and we were seeing smaller, good size bears, but smaller and-
Travis: That was, what? 11:30, 12:00 in the afternoon.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: Like, like, usually you're gonna be seeing most activity in the morning- Mm ... and in the evening, and the big ones will really come out at nighttime, uh, right around evening-ish, but this was middle of the day.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: Okay, so that's promising.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: So, um, all right, let's, let's back the vehicle up a little bit- Yeah
and, uh, wait.
Tiffany: Mm.
Travis: The old trick is if you're driving down a road and you see one and it spooks off, keep driving.
Tiffany: Mm.
Travis: Go a kilometer or two, park the vehicle, walk on back.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: Guess what? You're probably gonna see it come back out. Bears are creatures of habit.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: If you see it at one place at one time on one day, you're probably gonna see it the next day at the same time in a very similar place.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: So we go, we do our walk, park the vehicle back. We wait and wait, nothing, not hearing anything, walk way past it. It was [01:28:00] hot out.
Tiffany: Yeah, it was pushing 30 degrees.
Travis: It was so hot.
Tiffany: Yeah,
Travis: it was really hot. And, uh, but we're seeing some interesting areas- Mm ... and boar sign-
Tiffany: Yeah ...
Travis: which, which was good, and, uh, how long do we give it there?
Give it some time.
Tiffany: Yeah, I think about 45 minutes, an hour or so. Just kinda hung out.
Travis: Mm-hmm. Walked on back. Okay, didn't see it. Walked up to where it scooted on in. Mm-hmm. 'Cause if you scare a bear, generally its instinct is to retreat back the path that it came from. Yeah. It was safe where it came in from, it didn't encounter any difficulties or obstacles, so without having to think, that's the place it, it'll usually run back in.
So I hiked off into the boo- bush for a little bit and, and, um, I could see trails and sign and okay, this is promising.
Tiffany: Yeah. Yeah.
Travis: Um, went back to the vehicle, got in that and okay let's, uh, went- on our hike we ended up hiking far enough around that we could see the logical conclusion [01:29:00] of where this road would go, and felt, you know, I th- I think we're better off checking out a different spur.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: So we did.
Tiffany: Mm-hmm.
Travis: So we're driving up this new spur. Now we're getting around what, 12:30-ish?
Tiffany: Yeah, it was like getting close to nap time.
Travis: Yeah, getting close to nap time. And we come up on this older clear cut.
Tiffany: Mm-hmm.
Travis: And on the right-hand side we see a large color phase adult boar.
Tiffany: Yeah, it was a nice bear.
Travis: It was a nice bear.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And it stuck around a little bit.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: Like, little bit. Yeah. When I say it didn't immediately run off, but by the time that we got out of the vehicle to take a look, bang, it, it's off. And it was in some pretty kinda rough terrain, being an- Yeah ... older clear cut, and it was, uh, steep with, on the edges extremely steep.
Yeah.
Tiffany: As we later found out. Yeah, for people that don't know, color phase, this isn't, we're not ta- not talking about a grizzly bear. This is like a black bear that is sort of [01:30:00] brownish.
Travis: Yes.
Tiffany: It's, they, they range, black bears range in color quite a bit in BC, and so this guy was like nice big-bottomed s- you know, stovepipe legs, brownish bear.
Travis: Yeah. And in BC everybody wants to find themselves a nice color phase bear. Yeah. 'Cause that's sort of the anomaly. You usually see, you see the, the black bears- Yep ... with the brown snout, the, you see those ones everywhere. All black bears are gonna be a little rare. Th- white chevron on the chest a bit rarer.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: And then you go down Lake Idaho with our buddy Brad Brooks and he's like, "Oh man, I'd love to get one of those jet black bears." "All we have are these c- these color phase ones down here,"
Tiffany: and- Yep ...
Travis: everybody wants what they don't have.
Tiffany: Yep, totally. Yeah. So we were excited.
Travis: Yeah, we were excited. We see this bear and we're
Tiffany: like, "Oh, that's a nice bear."
That's the biggest bear we saw so far, uh, it stuck around. It was, yeah, it was promising.
Travis: Yeah.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: So-
Tiffany: So, so yeah. So we figure we go, go take a little, uh, ride up the road, give it some-
Travis: No we didn't.
Tiffany: I thought we did. I thought we went up the road. [01:31:00] You're getting
Travis: things out of order.
Tiffany: Oh my God, okay. Sorry, what'd we do?
Travis: So we backed the vehicle up.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: We parked it We waited to see if it came out.
Tiffany: Yes.
Travis: We then took a hike up to the area where it was. Yeah. And there is a hillside with a whole bunch of dead fall. It was pretty difficult to navigate and hard to be quiet as we went up there. Yeah. And we thought, "Let's just sit here and wait."
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: There's a lot to be said for waiting. Everybody likes to go and run in and chase. "I saw it here. Let's chase it." No. You're not gonna outrun the thing. No. Maybe, maybe it beds down and thinks, "Uh, I don't care. I don't see, um, you can't see me," whatever.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: Maybe you run into that, but more often than not, you're just gonna end up spooking them.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: So we hiked up the hillside about halfway or so-
Tiffany: Mm-hmm ...
Travis: uh, in this old clear-cut, and there were some trees set up and-
Tiffany: For the shade.
Travis: Yeah.
Tiffany: Which is nice.
Travis: It was so hot. And, uh, we sat down.
Tiffany: Mm-hmm.
Travis: And we just sat there nice and [01:32:00] quietly, eating our vitamin C, vitamin Hawk- Hawkins
Tiffany: cheesies. Yes, Travis' vitamin
Travis: C.
I have harvested- Quietus snack ... more animals with my crinkle, crinkle, crinkle, and my hunting partner's looking at me like, "Well, shut up." It
Tiffany: is truly the loudest snack you could possibly eat.
Travis: I get it out of the hard plastic case, I put it in my mouth, and crunch, crunch.
Tiffany: Yep. Yep.
Travis: But we waited there for about an hour and a half.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: And nothing came out. Yep. Okay. Then-
Tiffany: Then we had nap time.
Travis: You're fast-forwarding again. So we go back to the vehicle. We're driving out to an area where, um, we had, of course, hadn't been. Yeah. We're gonna explore some more, and we bump another bear.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: Just close off the side of the road. It was, uh, it was hard to see.
It looked small.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And, uh, it would've been a juvenile black bear.
Tiffany: Yeah, for
Travis: sure. And just saw a bit of it parked. It didn't move, and [01:33:00] so I'm getting out, I'm looking, and it boogies up a little bit further, and like, wow, this is, this is a lot of bears. Yeah. So, so far now we've seen mama, cub, that's two.
Yeah. Boar down below, three. Four is gonna be colored phase. Five now is this juvenile.
Tiffany: Mm-hmm.
Travis: This is all in one, one area. Like, this is, this is interesting. Yeah. Okay. So we drive further, checking out some spur roads, some promising looking areas, and thought- As you said, it's feeling like nap time It's feeling- It's hot out Yeah So I park the truck on a little bit of an incline on a bit...
It's, well, a steepish-ish-
Tiffany: Mm ...
Travis: incline, so we can lie back, feel comfortable, windows down, and got ourselves nice and comfortable inside the truck and figured, well, let's have a little nap, and we'll go back, and we'll see if we can find this color phase bear.
Tiffany: Yeah. So I'm just falling asleep, like eyes heavy, falling asleep.
It's warm. And then you say, "Did you hear that?" [01:34:00]
Travis: Oh, you didn't hear it?
Tiffany: No.
Travis: Okay.
Tiffany: No, I didn't at first, and then I heard it after you said that. It... Loud cracks. And there is a distinctive noise that bears make that is different from like... Yes, gross. Everyone calls them, what are they?
Travis: Grizzly birds?
Tiffany: Grizzly birds.
Travis: And- Because they scare the-
Tiffany: Yeah ...
Travis: poop out of you when you go... They don't move until you're right beside you.
Tiffany: Yeah, and then they scare you, 'cause it's like a c- crashing noise. F-
Travis: f- f- f- f- f- But,
Tiffany: but bears make a lot of noise when they go through the woods, especially in sort of a drier wooded area that we were in.
Like, they're breaking branches, and it's loud. Mm. And they walk at a certain pace that is, is quite distinctive. So we're sitting there, and there's a bit of a, like a brush pile beside us, so we can't really see. And, and as well, this whole area is like, there's roads and stuff, but there's... The, the, the hills in between the roads are very steep.
Travis: Mm.
Tiffany: So we couldn't see- What we were hearing, but we knew the general direction of what we were, what we're hearing. So [01:35:00] we sat there and listened, and listened.
Travis: And we could hear it, and it sounded like, man, this is close. Yeah. Like, how do we get out of this vehicle-
Tiffany: Yeah ...
Travis: without scaring it away-
Tiffany: Yeah ...
Travis: so we can then load up.
It's not like, like I was in Texas hunting, and my hunting buddies, Trevor says, "Trav, just whatever you do in Canada, just do the exact opposite here in Texas." Yeah. You can have loaded firearms in the car. You can shoot from the car if you want. Well, we don't, we, we can't do that in Canada. No.
Tiffany: I wouldn't want to either, but you can't do it in Canada.
Travis: So we very, very quietly get out of the vehicle, get our rifles together, and Tiffany, you take an observation point- Yeah ... around the corner, up a bit of an embankment or- On an
Tiffany: anthill.
Travis: On a was it on an anthill?
Tiffany: Yeah. I was sitting there getting bitten by red ants the whole time. It was like trying... Sitting there sweating myself to, to like [01:36:00] dehydration state w- getting constantly bitten by ants.
It was awesome, and then hearing the crack of a bear, so there's all this excitement and-
Travis: Well, you were my overwatch. No, I know. You were my protection because I was down there-
Tiffany: Yeah ...
Travis: super-duper close to where this thing is. Yeah. And we don't know what it is. No. We do know that there's grizzlies in the area.
Yeah. We've seen-
Tiffany: Big grizzlies.
Travis: Yeah, we've seen sign. We've seen big grizzlies there before. Mm-hmm. And we can hear this thing snapping and cracking through, and I'm standing there in a place where I'm anticipating whatever it is making this noise is gonna come on up, and I figured it was by itself. It didn't sound like mama with cub making different- Mm
noises back there. It sounded like one bear.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: After, like, and it is hot out, and so there's that level of impatient because of discomfort, too. Yeah. You've got the ants and the sun on you, and I'm standing there with, tired, woken up from my nap.
Tiffany: Damn bear.
Travis: And, uh, so I [01:37:00] start walking over to the edge of where the road is- Mm
and it goes down a steep embankment, and as I'm walking over, I can hear this thing coming up around the same area. I'm like, "Okay, if this is a grizzly bear, if this is a m- mama with cubs- Yeah ... if this is anything that's gonna get startled and its first response is to be attack before running away, I'm not giving it the best chance of, of-
Tiffany: Of a treat?
Yeah.
Travis: Yeah. So as it's coming up, I'm like, "Uh, it sounds so close." Yeah. I know I'm gonna take a few steps backwards, and the wind was swirling everywhere.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And I thought for sure it was gonna scent me.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: But it either didn't, or it didn't care.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: So I set up a little bit around the corner, and I'm waiting and watching, and you probably...
All of a sudden, I could see something through the brush. Mm-hmm. And I can kinda cut through. It had come up now f- to the top of the hill. It was still pretty [01:38:00] obscured, and I just saw black.
Tiffany: Yeah. You kept, I was sitting at that higher spot that you mentioned, and you look at me, and you're touching, like, the stock of your rifle, which is black, and I was like, "Oh, okay, okay."
I'm not great with hand signals. I'm kind of famously bad with them. But you're pointing out, like, okay, it's a black bear. Okay, good. And I s- I can't see anything. I'm still just getting bitten, watching you pointing at your stock.
Travis: On my Sako Finnlight?
Tiffany: Yes, on your Sako
Travis: Finnlight. At, at the adjustable cheek riser- Yes, yes
on it that is black in color.
Tiffany: Yes, exactly.
Travis: Yes.
Tiffany: Yes.
Travis: Get a plug for Sako. Using
Tiffany: Norma ammu- using Norma ammunition.
Travis: Oh, I love that. I, oh, yeah.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: We, we can talk about that one afterwards and- Yeah ... but, um, yeah, I'm a big fan. Anyways, get the plug for Sako in there, get the plug for Norma in there. Yeah. Wouldn't chat about them unless I believed in them.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: And so I'm pointing at it-
Tiffany: Yeah ...
Travis: hoping you get the idea this is black, so it could be a takeable thing. Mm-hmm. Be alert, right? Get yourself ready, and so you're, you're not in the most comfortable position, I could tell.
Tiffany: [01:39:00] No, and I was also not in an area where I was... Like, you know when you're sitting at an angle where it's like you're kind of afraid you might slide if you try to- Mm
stand up? Um, it was a bit of a scree pile, and i- it wasn't, wasn't ideal. I was sort of quickly jumped in there to be out of sight from where we figured the bear would be, but be able to see you and-
Travis: And I'm downrange.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And I'm moving around.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: So there's a lot of trust, obviously, in you and making sure there's muzzle control- Yes
and, and, uh, knowing what you can do.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: And, um, then I move myself around the corner, and it's walking up. 15 meters from me-
Tiffany: Mm ...
Travis: was- Not a large- No ... but adult boar.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: And it's stood there- Mm ... and looked at me, and I'm looking at you like, "Can you see it?" Could you see it?
Tiffany: No, I didn't see the bear at all in that, in that interaction.
Travis: Okay. Well, I'm s- I'm looking at it. Mm. It's looking at me. It's trying to figure out like what's going on. I'm like- Yeah ... [01:40:00] you know, it's a legal, it's a legal bear. Mm. I can, I can take it. In BC you can't take a bear in the company of other bears.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: So it, what it's looking for is it doesn't want you to take a sow with cubs- Mm
and then not have a fighting chance for these cubs to survive, and so that's, that's one of the rules, right? Mm-hmm. Um, but this is a legal bear to take, but I wasn't interested. And maybe, maybe I was giving off that energy to the bear, like I'm just not interested in you.
Tiffany: Yeah, maybe. I don't know. These bears were like they did not care.
In this area they just are like, "I'm just doing..." They- They're like
Travis: honey badgers.
Tiffany: They did not give a ... Yeah. No, they didn't care. They were just like, "Eh, this is my place. This is what I'm doing." I don't know, like you said, I don't know if it was a vibe we're putting out, but- Mm ... they were just like, "I'm not, I'm not worried.
I have nothing to be concerned about." Yeah. Came up and... So yeah.
Travis: So 50 meters away.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: Adult boar.
Tiffany: Mm.
Travis: I look at it. We look at each other for a while. Finally I say, "Okay, you can go," and it- Mm ... turns around and leaves.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: Fair enough. We have an accord. We have an understanding. [01:41:00] There
Tiffany: you
Travis: go. And I thought, "Okay, now what?
Do we try and get back to sleep?" I mean-
Tiffany: No, like I was wide awake. I was not going- ... back to sleep at this point. What
Travis: were you feeling at the time? How did that feel for you?
Tiffany: It was, like in the same way that every time you see an animal you get like this excitement. Bears are different though. Bears are like...
I always like to say there's something different about hunting an animal that can hunt you back.
Travis: Mm.
Tiffany: Um, and yeah, no, that's a certain level of excitement, uh, nervousness. I always get nervous.
Travis: Yeah.
Tiffany: You know me. Uh, but, uh, yeah, I wasn't going back to sleep at all.
Travis: So there we were, tired but wired.
Tiffany: Yes.
Travis: And we decide, okay, we've been using onX and iHunter side by side- Mm-hmm
and just testing these two different apps out. Marking the different locations where we're seeing things- Mm-hmm ... gives us an idea so when we come on back we can, we can, uh, go quiet or- Yeah ... stalk in, [01:42:00] whatever it might be.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: So in we go. So that's, uh, what was that, bear number six now in that day?
Tiffany: I, I don't, I lost track
Travis: Okay
Tiffany: I don't know
Travis: So then we're heading back- Yeah
looking at areas, getting closer. The light's getting, uh, it's, it's getting a little bit later in the day.
Tiffany: Yeah, it's cooling off a bit.
Travis: Cooling off.
Tiffany: Yeah. And
Travis: I thought, "Okay, we're getting close to where we saw big Bruno- Yeah ... Mr. Color Face."
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: We'll pull over. We're gonna hike in from here.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: So pull on over, hike, what?
I guess about a kilometer and a half or so.
Tiffany: Yeah, yeah, it was, it was a bit of a ways. Yeah. Yeah. We didn't, we, we wanted to be far away.
Travis: Yeah. And I find if, if we walk on in, I like to try and walk at a pace where I'm not elevating my heart rate so much- Mm-hmm ... that I can't comfortably take 100 meter offhand shot.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: If I'm huffing and puffing and my heart's going, and I get the rifle up offhand, and there's something 100 meters or [01:43:00] less, and I'm just all over the place-
Tiffany: Yeah ...
Travis: what, what's the use? And it also keeps me a bit more in tune with my surroundings. I tend to activate my ears and my eyes a lot. Nothing gives something away like movement.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: You ... It can be dead still, perfectly camouflaged, and then it moves. You, and something I've been training myself more to do, you use your nose a lot I've noticed. Like, I'll- Yeah ... smell things, but I don't, I don't pay attention in the way that you seem to.
Tiffany: No, and I I probably look like a moron when I do it, but I walk with my mouth wide open.
Um,
Travis: it- I do that too- Yeah ... but I do that for auditory reasons.
Tiffany: I, yeah, I, I do it to hear better.
Travis: Hm.
Tiffany: Um, but I, I do. I really, I pick up smells. You can smell animals that have bedded down recently. Um, I don't find that I smell scat, but you smell the animals.
Travis: Hm.
Tiffany: Um, you smell flowers and different plants, and they all have their different scents.
And there are some plants that we see that, [01:44:00] you know, when we see certain plants we're like, "Oh, there's gonna be, uh, there's probably ... You know, if there's gonna be a bear there, they seem to like being around burdock and dandelions- Hm ... and all these kinds of things. Um, but yeah, no, I, I like to go slow, not get out of, get winded.
Yeah. Walk quietly, which I struggle with.
Travis: And you've got a better eye for the, um, the flora.
Tiffany: Yeah, I mean, that's where my interest is. I, I struggle sometimes 'cause I, I put my head down when when I walk- ... 'cause I'm looking for like, oh, there's wild strawberries, or oh, there's that plant.
Travis: Yeah, you spot that like nobody's business, and you also use that...
I remember that one time, oh, our- we got a drop in elevation. Mm. Why? Oh, the, the spruce tips aren't, aren't coming out like they were at lower elevations, so we're gonna find more life and animals down here. I'm like, "Ah, yeah, good point."
Tiffany: Yeah, I w- I mean, at least in the area that we hunt in, we find that the, the nicer, bigger, you know, older bears are gonna be at, at a certain place with certain [01:45:00] vegetation, and, and the spruce tips for us we're like, yeah.
If they're like, if they're too overgrown, it's, it's, it's gonna be tough.
Travis: Mm.
Tiffany: Um, but yeah. Yeah.
Travis: So we hike back in.
Tiffany: Mm-hmm.
Travis: I'm not seeing anything. We decide to set back up in the same position where we were before- Mm-hmm ... where we originally were doing overwatch and waiting on Mr. Color Phase there. Yeah. So we start working our way up that hillside, and it's not quiet.
I mean, like it's- No, it's
Tiffany: so loud ...
Travis: it's dry, and there's so much deadfall, and- Mm-hmm ... it was tough to kinda get over, so we're taking our time.
Tiffany: It, it was loud enough to, for me to think, "This would be loud enough to scare a bear away." Like, if I was around a bear and I wanted to go away, I'd be making this much noise.
Travis: Mm.
Tiffany: So it wasn't quiet.
Travis: We get up into position. I... You had your pack with you. Yeah. I just handheld a, um, one of those collapsible Zrest foamies.
Tiffany: Mm.
Travis: I like those because it keeps you insulated off the ground. It gives you some comfort, and you can, you can spend a [01:46:00] lotta time silently- Yeah ... and still. And we get into our position, get ourselves all set up.
You're there beside me. I'm eating my vitamin C, my, my Cheezees, and- Yeah ... which I love so much. You know, Hawkins Cheezees, I've reached out- One of these days ... so many times. I tell ya. Anyways- Yep ... um, and I thought, "You know, I'm backup on this hunt. You're the one who's gonna be harvesting the animal." That was the intention when we went into it.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And, uh, and I'm on backup. You're shooting a 280 Ackley Improved. It's, it's a hell of a round, it's a hell of a cartridge. Yeah. It's got lots of, of power, precision. It's got everything you need, and- Yeah ... um-
Tiffany: It's a little heavy.
Travis: It's, it, the gun's heavy. A little bit. It's, it's a nice gun. Yeah. It was made by, um, uh, Ultimatum- Travis
Tiffany: Vader.
Travis: No, it was made by Ultimatum Actions. Yeah. Pieced together by Travis Vader- Yeah ... uh, with an IBI barrel on it. It's got the carbon fiber barrel. Mm. It's got that muzzle break on it, which helps with [01:47:00] the, uh, recoil. I mean, it's, it's a dream to shoot.
Yeah.
Travis: It's deadly accurate. It's a hell of a cartridge. Uh, unfortunately Norma doesn't make 280 Ackley Improved-
Tiffany: No
Travis: ammunition, but they do make the 7 mil bullets, and I just hadn't got around to loading into that one. Yeah. I was using my, uh, Sako Finlight. It was a 308 Winchester, and I was using the, uh, the Bondstrike Normas. Mm. The, the cool blue tip ones. And from a marketing perspective, I think that those things stand out really nice.
It's a- Yeah ... k- kind of a neat... But I was backup. And the scope that I was using is made by, uh, ATI, Armament Technologies. It's a SAI Optic. Mm. And it's a, it's a 1-6 power scope, so it's designed for things that are fast and close. It's not really designed for long range, but you can do it. You can do a six power shot at, at longer distance- Mm
but that's not really what it's designed for. And I thought, "You know, this is a [01:48:00] newish scope to me. I like it. I've got the gun sighted in, but let me just take a spot down and see what it would look like- ... if I'm looking down the hill and we're behind some cover and it's kind of deadfall everywhere."
Tiffany: And this is, this is just, like, five minutes or so after we got ourselves settled up the hill.
Travis: That's right. Yeah. It's about, a Hawkins, one of those small Costco Ha- Hawkins cheesy bags. Yeah.
Tiffany: Yeah,
Travis: that's about few minutes.
Tiffany: Yeah, like a 30 gram bag of Hawkins cheesy.
Travis: Yeah. So- So
Tiffany: not very long ...
Travis: I'm like, "I just wanna make sure," 'cause they got something called height over bore, right? I wanna make sure that I'm, I don't have the muzzle planted in a, uh, in a deadfall tree- Mm
while the scope's looking above it, and it feels like I got a good shot. And so anyways, I shoulder the rifle and I'm looking on down just to s- you know, give it a little practice, see what it feels like, make sure- Yeah ... everything swings clear.
Tiffany: And you're not telling me what you're doing.
Travis: No.
Tiffany: No, you just, like, put up your rifle.
Travis: But you look over at me like, "Do you see a bear?"
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And I, I take my eyes off of scope focus, [01:49:00] and I, typically I shoot with both eyes open-
Tiffany: Yeah ...
Travis: and I put it onto all around focus- And there was a bear there.
Tiffany: Yeah. I was s- it was so crazy. Like, yeah.
Travis: And so-
Tiffany: I'm like, "What the hell? Are you serious?"
Travis: Yeah. '
Tiffany: Cause I figured you were just joking, but no, there's a bear.
Travis: I, I said, "Yes. Yes, there's a bear."
Tiffany: Yeah. And you said it, like, probably a bit more calmly than that. You're like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a bear."
Travis: Yeah.
Tiffany: I'm like, "What?"
Travis: But it, it wasn't, it wasn't a bear we wanted to take. No. And, uh, so I got the phone out, and I'm filming it, and I'm sending it over to my buddy who...
or I guess we were not quite cell reception, so I c- I'm filming it so I can send it over to my buddy who I was hunting with before and- Yeah ... and it had walked up the road that we had walked on, followed closely behind us, and it was starting to make its way up the hillside.
Tiffany: Yeah, it was following our trail.
Travis: Yeah. Yeah. And it got about a quarter of the way up the hillside.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And we could see it, and we could hear it coming up, and then it just kinda lost interest. Yeah.
Tiffany: So- [01:50:00] And we lost sight of where it went.
Travis: Well, it, it came... we lost sight as it was coming up- Yeah ... then it ended up going back down. We saw it on the road, and we saw it move on down.
Tiffany: Yeah, and it was... it looked like a sow.
Travis: Yeah. I, I wasn't positive on that one. Yeah. You were feeling pretty sure that was a sow.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: I, I could see that it was, you know, juvenile, um, to adult, smaller. Just it wasn't... it didn't look like something w- we wanted. No. If we're gonna be taking something, we want to be able to fill the cooler up.
If we're putting the effort in and we're taking a life, we wanna make sure it's gonna be something that's lived its life and- Yeah ... will be able to provide for us now. So then we're back on the hillside just sitting there- Yeah ... thinking, waiting. Can't hear this thing anymore.
Tiffany: Yeah. How
Travis: l- yeah ...
Tiffany: I, I was actually a little bummed 'cause I was, I was hoping...
I was concerned that this black bear that had followed us up the hill w- it might spook away the other, um, color phase that we saw before.
Travis: Or attract it in. [01:51:00]
Tiffany: Yeah. Well, that didn't occur to me. I was just... I was a little bummed. I was like, "Oh, maybe we're not gonna see this color phase." Like, how many bears are in this area?
Travis: Yeah.
Tiffany: But the color phase, I'm like, maybe, maybe that's not gonna happen tonight.
Travis: Well, we, we spent, what, another hour or two?
Tiffany: Yeah, it was a while. It, it got to the point where I was starting to get uncomfortable sitting down. Hmm. I was starting to get bitten by a- bitten by ants again. Oh, yeah. And, um, I was like, "Oh, okay.
It's..." I, like, went, "How long, how long are we gonna stay?" 'Cause when we're bear hunting, I don't really like staying till last light plus that hour. Hmm. Like, I, I like to, you know, pull the plug a little early, um, more so than deer hunting or waterfowl hunting or things like that.
Travis: Yeah, 'cause there's bears in the area.
'Cause
Tiffany: there's bears in the area. So I, I like just 'cause you can legally shoot, I don't like to take it to that point. So I was looking at my watch thinking, "Okay. Yeah, g- we're getting close."
Travis: And I hear w- [01:52:00] something low and propeller-like.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Yeah ...
Travis: longer, lower.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And I've been hearing this, and I keep hearing it, and I'm like, "What the hell is this?"
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And I look to you, I'm like, "Do you hear that? It sounds kind of propeller-like." Like I probably should have clued in, but-
Tiffany: Well, and that's it too because I should, I should have clued in too because I heard it, but it didn't register that it was a noise that I should be concerned with.
Mm. It didn't register that it could be a plane, it could be a bear, it could be whatever. But like when you said that, I was like, "Oh, yeah, I do hear that. I have been hearing that." And you're like...
Travis: It's been some time- Yeah ... that we were hearing it for.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And so we just sit there, and we're waiting, and all of a sudden we hear that familiar snap.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: Similar to what I heard, woke us up when we're ha- trying to have our nap earlier. Yep. Just drifting off, hear a snap. [01:53:00] Holy crow, that's not far away.
Tiffany: No.
Travis: Like 30 meters max.
Tiffany: It was moving the trees too, right?
Travis: Well, it was 30 meters max as we look down the hillside. So we're up on the hill, I look to the left, 30 meters down that way.
Okay, there's something kinda moving in there, and okay, we'll just listen. We got our rounds in the chamber, we're waiting and ready.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: I'm thinking, "Okay, probably that little one that we saw earlier." Mm. "The one that we didn't wanna take." But that propeller sound- Yeah ... that low rumble sound, that doesn't sound like something that comes from-
Tiffany: This was a different...
You, when you asked me how I felt when we saw that, that other small boar- Mm ... during the nap, uh, asked me how I felt. How I felt now was a very different feeling. Hearing that rumbly noise-
Travis: Mm ...
Tiffany: uh, trigger something in you that I think is probably an important feeling to feel.
Travis: Yeah, very primal feeling.
Tiffany: Yes. I was feeling a different feeling.
My- I
Travis: was feeling curiosity.
Tiffany: Yes. No, you, you handle [01:54:00] these things more, better than I do. I tend-
Travis: Differently ...
Tiffany: diff- sure, differently. I get more nervous, and you're standing up.
Travis: Well, at this point, we had heard it start to move around-
Tiffany: Yeah ...
Travis: behind us, and we're trying to quantify, like, how long have we been hearing this rumble for?
Tiffany: Mm-hmm.
Travis: Why is it trying to circle us- Hmm ... and wind us? The
Tiffany: circling is concerning.
Travis: Right.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: So now I'm like, I'm, I'm up, I'm standing, I'm looking- Mm ... and I can't see anything.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: But I can see the alders moving.
Tiffany: Mm.
Travis: So there's something in there big enough moving. You're not in a good position- No ... because of all the dead fall in the position where you're at.
And after a while of this thing circling around us and moving, we hear what sounds like two quick stutter steps forward, a as it comes forward.
Tiffany: You scared me again. Yeah, it scared the crap out of me.
Travis: And you just hear bing, bing. Yeah. But at the same [01:55:00] time it was like it was letting ...
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: Just this loud kind of, uh-
Tiffany: It, it was ter- it was truly terrifying.
Like, I'm not saying this for dramatic effect. It scared the shit out of me hearing this bear do this. And
Travis: we still can't see it.
Tiffany: No, we still can't see the damn bear.
Travis: So I got my rifle up. I'm ready. And I look to you, I'm like, "Get your bear spray out."
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: As opposed to having a rifle swinging around, two of us going at it- Mm
you're not in a good position. Yeah. I mean, if we can give it a squirt, great, right? But it didn't wanna move. I'm waiting.
Tiffany: Mm-hmm.
Travis: And it's waiting. And about 10 minutes in, it's still there. It's not like... And w- I was making a little bit more noise now, and- Mm-hmm ... of course you and I are talking back and forth, and now it's close.
Like- Yep ... 20 meters away. Like, it's close.
Tiffany: And they can... If anyone's seen how fast a bear can move when they want to, they're fast. Like-
Travis: Don't think you're outrunning them.
Tiffany: No, you're not
Travis: w- Don't think you're dodging
Tiffany: them. We're not outrunning. If you do get a shot in it, it's still [01:56:00] gonna make it to you.
Travis: Right.
And don't think that that round is dropping it right there.
Tiffany: No.
Travis: I mean, there, there's two ways that anything dies.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: Number one, it's gonna die of a central, a CNS shot, central nervous system shot.
Tiffany: Mm.
Travis: You're gonna interrupt either brain or spinal cord. You're gonna get a shot in there, and then you better be on roller skates because the thing's falling.
It's dead before it hits the ground.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: But that's a small area, a small area, especially in a moving, charging bear to try and get that headshot. I mean, if it shoots low, high, left, right, whatever-
Tiffany: Mm-hmm ...
Travis: um, that's small, especially in the moment, um, all things considered. The second way things die is from, um, cardiovascular decompression- Mm
uh, typically induced through massive hypovolemic shock. So easiest way to affect that is, uh, if you think about a bucket of water and you wanna drain it, the more holes you put in it, the faster- Mm ... you put it in, the faster it's gonna drain. [01:57:00] So that just reduces blood pressure to a point where oxygen can't get to a brain.
Those are basically, that's the two ways that things die.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: If you get a central nervous system shot, you're lucky enough to do that, great. Threat's stopped. It's down. It's on the ground.
Tiffany: Mm.
Travis: We're good. That's small.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: The other way- It could be a great shot. You could blast its heart out of its body
Tiffany: Which we've seen
Travis: and it'll still live for some time. I know, um, so I trained with this fellow, uh, Sergeant Dennis Tueller. He's from the Salt Lake City Police Department, and a lot of people back in the day would say, "Oh, it's the, uh, the, we got the Tueller drill and the, uh, the Tueller ruler, rule, and the Tueller Principle."
And he, he basically, he just took a little bit of a, a look at how people die-
Tiffany: Hmm ...
Travis: and how fast the a- average officer can get a gun out of the holster, which is about 1.5 seconds- Hmm ... and how far the average [01:58:00] individual can travel in that time. And so he'd look and he'd say, "The average person can travel 21 feet in 1.5 seconds."
So- Hmm ... if there's a threat and they're within that 21 feet, they've got the ability to do damage to you before you can really even get up and get a shot on. And everyone started looking at that like, "Okay, so as long as they're 22 feet away, I'm safe." Well, no, right? Uh, that's, he's just talking about an idea.
It's not a rule. And, um, I think it was Frank Magliato who was involved in a shooting as well, and a similar thing. I think someone was coming at him with a, a club. But you learn how long, even if you get good shots on s- let's, we're talking about humans right now. Yeah. A fully oxygenated individual takes some good breaths, has their heart blasted out of their body, they can still travel 100 meters and do damage the entire time they're doing that.
So you think of a big bear. You think it's something that's got lots of models, [01:59:00] muscle, that doesn't go bang, bang, you're dead, fall down, right? It's, it- We're in a situation now which is kind of precarious
Tiffany: It's acting in a predatory way.
Travis: It's big time acting in a predatory way. Yeah.
Tiffany: This is that whole, like, this animal can hunt you back sort of situation that I was mentioning before.
We, we were... I, I definitely felt like the prey in that situation, which is not a good thought to have in your head.
Travis: Well, see, when things start happening for me, I tend to look at situations and scenarios and how they can play out.
Tiffany: Mm-hmm.
Travis: And I always play them to a positive conclusion in my head.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: Okay, if bear comes out, I get my shot safeties off, fingers on trigger, get cheek weld, right?
Mm-hmm. I make sure bolt's all the way down. Twice in my life I've been burned by that one. Luckily, the Sako is one of those ones that with the safety on, the bolt stays down, and if it's a little bit up on some rifles, it can be out of battery, and you can go [02:00:00] click instead of bang.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And, uh, I'm, I'm running it through, and here's what a successful CNS shot looks like.
Okay, if it comes in quick and I don't get a CNS shot, here's where I move to. What trees can I use for cover? Which ones can I, uh, move you to? How do I make sure you stay safe? If it comes in and it starts attacking me, my bear spray's on my bino pouch, my knife's in my pocket- Yeah ... my wife's over here. And I just, I play through all of these different scenarios, but each one has a positive outcome.
Yeah. So if things go sideways and I find myself in one of those scenarios, hopefully I've got the right program downloaded that I can quickly start moving to it.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: Um, because we both know a guy who was in the jaws of a grizzly bear-
Tiffany: Yeah ...
Travis: who fought it off with his pocket knife.
Tiffany: Mm-hmm.
Travis: It's possible, right?
Yeah. It's... Might sound impossible, might sound highly improbable, but when you gotta do what you gotta do, you, you look to whatever you have available. So I'm playing all these different scenarios. I'm [02:01:00] holding onto one of the small alders to support my off hand so I can- Mm-hmm ... keep the rifle down, and about 10 minutes or so into this-
Tiffany: Yeah
Travis: okay, and I look over at you- And I can see a concerned look on your face.
Tiffany: Yeah. Yeah, I was scared. I, I 100% admit I was like, in my head I'm like, "Mm, maybe bear hunting isn't for me." Like, I don't- Seriously? Yeah. Oh, 100%. I was like, "You know what? This isn't really fun for me anymore." Like, I don't enjoy this.
Travis: See, my head goes to you could be deer hunting, you could be fishing- Yeah
you're still gonna have bears in the area, and you could- Yeah ... f- find yourself in the exact same situation.
Tiffany: Yeah. No, it's, it's, uh, totally true, but in that moment, I was like, "Yeah."
Travis: I want out.
Tiffany: Yeah, I'm like, I don't know. I just like, ugh, you know, I really do like hunting, but maybe, like, this is just not my thing.
And yeah, and then you look at [02:02:00] me and you're like, "Do you wanna move?" I'm like, "Yep." No hesitation. It's just, "Yep." It came from, like, my gut. Let's move.
Travis: Yeah.
Tiffany: So I started packing stuff in my bag. Um, like throwing shit in my bag to get, get everything packed up and get out.
Travis: Your thought process works differently-
Tiffany: Yeah.
Oh, totally ... when,
Travis: when there's, uh, excitement. Yeah. Now, I, and I recognize that in myself. It, it's not the same as it would be otherwise.
Tiffany: Mm-hmm.
Travis: I find I tend to get sharpened-
Tiffany: Yeah ...
Travis: to certain things. Not to everything. Like, I get sharpened on the certain, um- scenarios that I've downloaded. Mm-hmm. It gets sharp and on- on, and if you throw something new in there, okay, gotta calibrate, gotta calculate.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: But I've hopefully got enough of these scenarios that I can, I can operate well.
Tiffany: I, I see, like, in my mind, I visualize the Terminator. When, in a stressful situation, you like, like computing things in your brain and like focusing and-
Travis: Well, my hope [02:03:00] is that I don't have to compute the second something happens.
Yeah.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: So that- that's, that's what I'm ... And I've always kind of been that way. I don't know if I was born that way or if I learned to be that way. Yeah. But I remember when I was, uh ... You and I were fishing on the Squamish River and- Yep ... caught my first steelhead- Yep ... something that we've both been working for for years.
Yep. And I got... What did I get? Two. Two that, on that one trip, and hooked into a third.
Tiffany: Yeah. Yeah.
Travis: Which is kind of unheard of on, on a, uh... And Pat Meehan was with us, and he's a, he's a hell of a fisherman.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And he's a, uh, like a pretty famous guide, especially in that area.
Tiffany: He is. He's super fa- He's, like, the, one of the most passionate anglers I've ever met.
Yeah. He- and he's just, like, he's so knowledgeable. He knows that river. Yeah. He knows how big of a deal it is to hook into three steelhead- ... in one day on that system.
Travis: And he's hooting and hollering- Yeah ... and jumping up and down. He was so excited. He's giving me high fives and he's so excited, and then he looks a little [02:04:00] pissed.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: He's like-
Tiffany: I think he was pissed at you. "
Travis: Why aren't you excited?"
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And it's not that I don't get excited.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: I compartmentalize it in a weird way, and I go, "I'll experience that excitement later," is what I told him.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: I said, "I've got lots of time later to be happy and experience it, but right now I've got, I got-"
Tiffany: More fish to catch
Travis: a program to run. I've got tasks to do. I'm- Yeah ... I'm working through right... Like, I don't want my excitement to put me in a position where I'm now unable to think about or be aware of other things that are around me.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: Maybe it's a hypervigilance, I don't know. But whatever it is- Yeah ... I've always kinda had this, I'll have time later to be scared.
I'll have time later to be excited. I'll have time later, whatever it might be- Yeah ... and I can, and I can work it through.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And in the moment, I don't know, what did it look like to you when you saw me in the moment?
Tiffany: Well, I, I think, I think w- we're a good match for a number of reasons, and one of them is when shit goes [02:05:00] sideways, I turn into, what is it?
The badger from Fantastic Mr. Fox? Is it a badger?
Travis: I think he is, yeah.
Tiffany: Or a mole or a badger
Travis: or something. He gave me a signal. He just, like, raises his hand.
Tiffany: Yeah. He, like, he gets, like, zoned out eyes and just freezes.
Travis: Yeah.
Tiffany: That's kind of what I- A possum?
Travis: Is he
Tiffany: a possum? Yeah, he's a possum. That makes so much more sense.
I turn into a possum.
Travis: Okay.
Tiffany: Um- But I do that for a moment, and then I look at you and you have your shit together, or at least you give the impression or the image of having your shit together, and it, it calms me down. It makes me feel safe. And, you know, the, the stupid m- memes that people are putting out about, like, "I didn't marry a loser," that kind of thing, like, I, I feel safe when I...
when things go sideways with you and I know that that's g- gonna be good.
Travis: Well, I have to watch it, 'cause I enjoy it when- ... things are going sideways and the wheels are falling off. I feel like I come into my element.
Tiffany: Yeah, you do.
Travis: Because I've never truly felt quite as alive [02:06:00] as when you're riding that edge of life or death- Yep
could be, eh, 50/50 option, right?
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And I like that feeling of being alive.
Tiffany: Mm.
Travis: I just gotta make sure I'm not putting myself or others in situations that are reckless- Yeah ... or needlessly. And that's when I looked over at you and I'm like, "Okay, hold on. Recalibrate." Am I pushing things here? Am I doing things in a stupid way?
Um, I looked to you and I said, "Do you wanna move?" You're like, "Yep."
Tiffany: Yeah, that's pretty much how I said it.
Travis: And okay, fair enough. You pack your stuff up.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: I'll stay here with my rifle up.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: You work your way over the deadfall.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: You and I are communicating back and forth.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: Okay, you stop now that you've gotten over that one big deadfall, rifle up, I'll move, and we did a bit of a tactical retreat from- Yes
from the bear. But I c- I didn't hear the bear moving.
Tiffany: No, but i- in all fairness, we were making a ... I was like-
Travis: Now you were in, like, "I gotta make noise."
Tiffany: I was [02:07:00] like, "Stomp, stomp," making as much noise as I possibly could to try to, like, sound like something that was bigger than that bear.
Travis: Hmm. Interesting.
Tiffany: Yes. Y- I mean, both of our legs are absolutely beat to shit right now-
Travis: Hmm
Tiffany: um, from like walking through all the deadfall, but-
Travis: Well, we ... And we get over that, and I'm listening-
Tiffany: Mm-hmm ...
Travis: and I'm watching. I told you- Yeah ... 'cause you were in the lead as I was staying behind to where we had that known bear.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And I said, "Just, you know, keep your eyes and ears open to the front as well."
Yeah. I- we've seen multiple bears in the area.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: We don't wanna find ourself in a situation where we're target fixated here only to find ourself-
Tiffany: Yeah ...
Travis: or falling on something or jabbing into a branch or whatever it might be. But let's- Yeah ... just keep our wits about us. And we get, we're going down. You get down to the roadside.
I'm still a little bit up on the hillside, and I look over to my right and I say, "Hey, there's your bear."
Tiffany: And it [02:08:00] was, no joke, the biggest bear. It was huge, and it looked pissed. All I thought was, "Well, now, I think that, I think that might be our bear, or it might be involved with the bear that was circling us."
It was pissed, and it was big, and it was black.
Travis: It was a tank- Yeah ... of a black bear.
Tiffany: It was huge.
Travis: It wasn't the color phase one that we're looking at. No, no. It wasn't the smaller one that we saw in the same area. No. It was a tank, and it was ... came on down and was facing us just dead on- Yeah ... from about 80 meters away.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And, um, I stayed up on the hillside a little bit.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And I put my rifle... We knew this was gonna be your shot. You took a knee.
Tiffany: Mm-hmm.
Travis: And I'm like, "Just if it doesn't move, just take it right front on in the brisket."
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And if it does move, you know what to do, right? Yeah. So I'm waiting with an offhand just in case.
Yeah. You talk me through what's going through your head and what you're doing.
Tiffany: Yeah, [02:09:00] so I was still feeling a little nervous from coming down the hill. So that was a big concern for me because, like, I- You know me, I, I don't like taking more than one shot. I like, I used to use a smaller caliber rifle when we'd bear hunt before, and I wanted something with a bit more kick behind it, which is why we moved up to the 280.
And so I'm down on one knee, and I'm just like, "Okay, just big deep breath. Take another big deep breath." Still watching this bear. It's still sort of standing front ways, and then it starts to turn broadside, and I'm watching it. I still don't totally feel 100%. Take another big deep breath, and it's moving around a little bit.
And then It comes broadside. Pull the trigger, run through the whole scenario, you know, safety off, gently pull the trigger, keep watching it, [02:10:00] and felt like a good shot, and the bear just went like, it was like bam, and fell sideways. Yeah. Like, it, it was... It, it hit that bear, and that bear went down like, like a ton of bricks.
It thumped
Travis: it. Yeah.
Tiffany: So my- I was like, "
Travis: Holy crow." Like, I know you can shoot. I'm like, "That was a good shot." Holy-
Tiffany: Yeah. It, it went down, like just there was no, zero hesitation. The bear just dropped. And so I unloaded, loaded another round just in case, uh, if it needed a follow-up shot, and sat there, didn't move.
Travis: And I'm looking at you like, "Holy crow. That's it." Yeah. "Good for you. It's done. You got it." Yeah. And I may have been... I should have maybe kept my mouth shut because, like we were talking about earlier- Yeah ... you either got a central nervous system shot- Yeah ... or you've got a massive cardiopulmonary decompression.
Tiffany: Mm-hmm.
Travis: Whatever it was that's knocked it completely sideways. Like, it jumped up and went on its side. [02:11:00] Like, I've shot the hearts out of bears before- Yeah ... and we watch them jump up and do something very similar, right? Yeah. Um, but even with a heart completely obliterated-
Tiffany: Yeah ...
Travis: lungs and heart, the bears I've shot like that have- Yeah
have still moved. This one, it was like, bang, right there on the road. Like, couldn't get much better than that.
Tiffany: Well, and, and in the same area, the last two bears I shot were similar. They dropped, and that was it. Lights out, nothing. They were done.
Travis: Mm.
Tiffany: Right? Died instantly.
Travis: So- Well, I think one of those was a CMS shot.
Tiffany: Yeah. Um, so this- This time, I'm like, my gut instincts was, "Okay, get ready for a second shot."
Travis: Mm.
Tiffany: And I'm looking at it, it's not moving, and I didn't take the shot.
Travis: And I was giving you, like, "You got it. We're good." Yeah. Right? "We'll just- let's, let's let it be. We don't wanna spook it off."
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: Because if it's gonna expire-
Tiffany: Yeah
Travis: if you're running after it, any energy it has is gonna be g- pumping adrenaline, it's gonna be moving and- Yeah ... and then [02:12:00] I- we saw it get up and quickly shuffle down the side. I got the rifle up to my shoulder, but before I could- Yeah ... it, bang, was over the side of the road down a super steep draw.
Tiffany: Yeah, and then I feel like I'm gonna puke because now I put a shot into a bear, and it's now down the edge of a super steep hill.
Travis: Yeah.
Tiffany: Uh, and I knew in my gut I should've f- I should've been ready to pull that second shot, but I didn't take it.
Travis: So I looked at you and said, "You feel comfortable walking back to the truck"
Tiffany: Mm. ...
Travis: kilometer and a half or so back, a couple kilometers, "and I'll walk over. I'll stand on the road, and I'll listen.
I'll wait for it to expire." Sometimes bears will have- Yeah ... what they call a, a death moan, and you know, okay, there it is, and it's done. I walk over to the position where it had gone down the side. I can spot blood. It was a through shot, and- [02:13:00] As I'm standing there up on the hillside opposite to where this big black bear went down, I hear a bear moving up there.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: So I don't know if that bear that you shot was the one that was huffing at us earlier-
Tiffany: Yeah ...
Travis: or if the one that was huffing at us earlier is still up there, which I'm kind of feeling that's the one up there, but I know there's a bear up there. We don't know what kind. Think probably black, but could be, could be grizzly, could be-
Tiffany: Yeah
Travis: right? And you're walking back to the truck. What were you thinking when you were walking back to the truck?
Tiffany: Uh, I just kept kicking myself for, for not sitting, sitting on a gun, uh, taking a second shot.
Travis: Hmm.
Tiffany: Uh, or just, yeah. I, I, I was, I was kicking myself.
Travis: Feeling emotional?
Tiffany: No, not emotional. I was still feeling the adrenaline going through, but, um, I just was like, "Damn it."
You, you know when you have a gut feeling? Uh, even though that bear went down, like, really well, and it looked like a great [02:14:00] shot, it looked like it was done.
Travis: I didn't think it was getting back up. No. I figured if we were just quiet, leave it be, it's- Yeah ... it's got no reason to get back up.
Tiffany: And maybe that, maybe the other bear-
Travis: Ah
Tiffany: spooked it.
Travis: That's an interesting point.
Tiffany: Because-
Travis: I didn't think about that ...
Tiffany: yeah. Maybe those bears were, like, scoping each other out and didn't even notice us. Who, I mean, who knows? But- Hmm ... it was, it, like that- Yeah. I, I don't know. But I was, I was kicking myself because I, I was realizing very quickly that we had a big job ahead of us, and- And the
Travis: sun had now set
Tiffany: yeah, and it, the, and as I mentioned before, is not my favorite time to be retrieving bears on the sides of hills. Um, I, I realize that by making a different decision I could have made our job a heck of a lot safer and easier.
Travis: Mm.
Tiffany: But we were now into this, and we were gonna have to deal with the consequences.
Travis: So now we have decision-branching scenarios again.
Tiffany: Yeah, yeah.
Travis: We have an active bear up on the hillside.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: A bear [02:15:00] that's mortally wounded-
Tiffany: Yeah ...
Travis: but it's not going fast enough.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And we have to think, like, the sun's going down.
Tiffany: Mm.
Travis: Are we gonna be able... If I go in now to try and, uh, put a final shot to quickly dispatch this bear-
Tiffany: Yeah
Travis: am I gonna spook it further? Is it gonna keep- Yeah ... going down this super steep hillside? If I let it stay there, usually 45 minutes or so, half hour, 45 after shooting an animal- Mm ... you just kinda sit down and you regroup, make sure you got your stuff together, and you go out and you start your tracking process.
Tracking blood after the sun's gone down is incredibly difficult.
Tiffany: Well, especially on bears too. They don't tend to bleed a ton.
Travis: Right. They got a lot of hair that'll sop it up.
Tiffany: Yeah. Uh- And, and also describe what this hillside looked like too. Like, this isn't, like, a big open area.
Travis: Oh, no, no. This is, like, how many year old beside it, cutblock- Yeah
which is gonna be large enough trees you [02:16:00] can't see through. I'm gonna be thinking about, am I gonna break an ankle, injure myself? Mm. Am I putting you in a position where you're gonna injure yourself? Because you'd already broken your ankle-
Tiffany: Yeah ...
Travis: was it two years ago now, eh? Yeah. We've got a bear on the hillside.
How interested is it on what it's now smelling down here? Do I wanna lose this thing? Do I wanna stalk in closer on this thing and run the chance of a, coming across a wounded, um, angry bear with my head torch on? Yeah. And so playing through all of these different things. You drive on up. I'm already down a little bit on the embankment trying to get an ear on.
As I'm coming down, it's snapping and popping as it goes. I can hear it up, and it's going again. Like, oh, no, this is not what I want. I don't want this thing moving or- Mm-hmm ... and gravity's helping it as well, and so we have to make a decision. I tell you, "Be alert. There's another bear on the hillside up above."
Tiffany: Yeah, which is great news 'cause I'm just learning this now. I was like, oh, [02:17:00] crap, we gotta find this bear down this hill, and it's all dark. And, like, visually, this... It's, it's like, um, like a little, uh... I don't- A
Travis: draw ...
Tiffany: uh, it's, yeah, it's a draw. So it's like- It's a- ... it's a steep hill, but, like, it's, it's steeper on each side.
And it's, it's an original area of, like, virgin trees with cut blocks on the side. So you, y- you have this situation where it's, like, really dark inside of it, but there's also windfall from the edge of a clear cut that you see. Mm-hmm. So there's deadfall everywhere, big trees, super dark.
Travis: Lots of places for it to hide.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And learning about it now, I will say we did bring it up at the time, but your brain may not have processed these different pieces of-
Tiffany: Yes. As well as going blank, I, I have big pockets of forgetting things. I
Travis: remember, uh, "I'm gonna put your bag
Tiffany: right
Travis: here."
Tiffany: Oh my God. It was like, "Knock, knock, knock. Right here."
I was like, "Yes." I get it. You're [02:18:00] like, "Tiff, your bag is right here." I'm like, "Yes." And then I come back, I'm like, "Where's my bag?" And I'm like, "Travis, Travis, where's my bag?" You're like, "It's where I left it." I'm like, I had no clue. I figured it was, you know, 50 meters down the road- ... and I couldn't see it. I'm like, "Where's my bag?"
And I'm thinking
Travis: like, how does she, why, why is she asking me this? We made eye contact 'cause I always make sure, stop, let's make eye contact. Yeah. Right? Let's do the-
Tiffany: Yes, it's important. It gets, like, it gets pretty rudimentary when I go into this, like, it's almost like a fugue state or something. I'm like, I totally...
I'm over-stressed and over-stimulated, and you have to make eye contact, and physical contact helps, too. Mm-hmm. Like, sometimes you put your hand on my shoulder. You're like, "This is where I'm putting it." And it's just like gone.
Travis: So sun's going down.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: I'm snap, popping, cracking down.
Tiffany: Sun, sun had gone down by that point.
Travis: Sun's-
Tiffany: Sun had set ...
Travis: down. Yeah. It's getting dark.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And you can watch it in, like, shades, chook, chook, chook- Yeah ... as it goes. [02:19:00] Okay, I'm gonna have to get down here. And anyways, I start hiking down the side and spooking this thing, and it's to the next place, to the next place. It's got enough juice in it to keep going, and all right, I just need to find some clear shot.
And when it, it's, it's down behind a tree or under a log, you, you don't know what you're shooting at. You don't wanna- Yeah ... just shoot at, at mass.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: Anyways, I was able to see, shouldered the 308, fired a round, double lung shot.
Tiffany: Mm-hmm.
Travis: Heard immediately the as it forced the arrow as it went on through, but it still decided, "That's it for me.
I'm gonna beeline down further."
Tiffany: Screw these guys. I'm gonna tumble down a hill further.
Travis: That's right. And, um, anyways, was able to get to it, and it was dead. Yeah. It had expired, and, um, uh, started running through my head now. So we're looking at a bear as a spring bear, so they're [02:20:00] gonna be lighter. Mm-hmm. It's not gonna have all the same fat on it as it comes out of torpor, but it's a good size.
We're talking 400 pounds or so- Yep ... full-in, uh, bear, like a decent size. Got a couple holes in it. Do I wanna gut it out and try and hike this thing out over my shoulder and get covered in blood and stuff, or do I want to, uh, just try and hike it out as is?
Tiffany: Yeah, and you see this, like, this was the logical, like, "Okay, so am I just gonna hike this bear up this hill gutted or not gutted?"
And in my mind I'm like, "Why? This is a huge freaking bear. You're not carrying this up this hill." Like, y- I've seen you lift a car before, but in my mind this was not, like, this wasn't feasible.
Travis: See, my mind, and you, you might be right, but my mind goes back to pressing over 700 pounds when I was working at the gym back in my, uh, late teens, early 20s on the incline leg press machine- Yeah
where you, um, stack all these things in. It's [02:21:00] not like a, a proper 700 pound, because it's on this machine. But I'm like, "I, I know I've just had surgery. I know I can do this. It'll be painful, but the hard part's getting it on my back. If I can get it on my back- ... I can, I can do the rest."
Tiffany: To be clear, and I have zero doubt if you had to do it, you could do it, but in my mind it wasn't an essential...
It wasn't a choice that you had to make. Like, in my mind, well, how about we just gut it and then, like ...
Travis: See, this is where your head's coming
Tiffany: in. Yeah. So then, and okay, so now at this point my brain's starting to work again. I'm like, "Travis, let's not have this conversation of you carrying an entire bear up a hill."
That, like-
Travis: Parts of it are hand over hand.
Tiffany: Yeah. It, it was like I'm gonna struggle getting up this hill not carrying a bag, not carrying a gun. Like, not just me climbing up this hill. You carrying a 400-pound bear up this hill isn't, didn't make sense to me.
Travis: The idea of dressing it out with head torches on as well wasn't, wasn't really my [02:22:00] favorite.
Tiffany: No, no.
Travis: With the bear up the hillside- Yeah ... at nighttime with the-
Tiffany: Mm-hmm ...
Travis: we've been there, we've done it, it's not my favorite thing to do. And we're also thinking about temperature, right? Yeah. Because it was a pretty hot day, but now where w- where we were, we'd gained elevation.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And the evenings are cooling off.
Tiffany: Yeah. They get cold at night.
Travis: Right. And so our, our magic number from you that you've come up with based on your Red Seal chef training is, uh, what, 10 degrees?
Tiffany: Uh, like eight. I mean, obviously you get down to closer to freezing it's better, but that sort of eight to 10 degrees I found overnight, it, it will chill it off.
Depending on the animal, de- like, depending on a ton of different things, but I would feel, I wouldn't- There's that balance of like, is this a perfect situation? Is this like a skinned out animal, uh, cut off the bone, whatever, all these things so it can cool off. Is it sitting on, uh, [02:23:00] you know, an ice pack with air flow around, like all these things.
Um, so you're not wasting meat. I felt like if, if the temperature was gonna get under 10 degrees, that eight to 10 degrees, uh, if it was gutted, air circulating around it, we weren't gonna be wasting meat.
Travis: Hm. So we get in-
Tiffany: Yep ...
Travis: gut it open. Mm-hmm. Get the guts out Lifted over top of a log
Tiffany: I might add, very diff- with a l- a lot of difficulty.
Like I... You basically did it yourself. I was very- I know ... little help. I was like- ... no help getting the bear up.
Travis: Yeah, it was, um, it was heavy. Mm-hmm. And it was, uh- Awkward ... but, but we wanted it off the ground.
Tiffany: Yeah
Travis: And cavity down so- Yeah ... it could drain, opened up. So rip- all the way up, ribcage, everything else opened up.
Yeah And so we could get some airflow going through it. And, uh, skin's on. Yeah I mean, the skin will [02:24:00] retain a fair bit of heat. But, um- Yeah,
Tiffany: yeah ...
Travis: and the fur can retain heat and everything else. I, I'm surprised at how well it cooled off over the night.
Tiffany: Yeah. It, it was... There was still like a touch of warmth in the shoulders near the bone, not much.
Legs were cold, like stone cold. Everything was cold on it.
Travis: But we go back- Yeah ... to camp covered in blood.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: And I mean, I'd also taken my knuckle off when I was skinning it, uh-
Tiffany: Yeah, that, that didn't help. Uh, thank you Montana Knife Company. First time I use that knife and Travis hacks off part of his finger.
Travis: Well, I could see my, uh, you could see underneath it the, every time I'd bend, you could see my knuckle- The muscle ... and the tendon in there. But I, I knew my tendon wasn't cut- Mm ... so we're good. And in time that'll all heal up, and it's probably didn't hurt because I'd already axed that finger before, and I don't have-
Tiffany: Yeah, yeah
Travis: much feeling in it anyways.
Tiffany: Well, there you go.
Travis: But, um, so up the hillside we go.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: Driving to camp.
Tiffany: Watching [02:25:00] for that other bear that we still are, like, we don't know if it's there.
Travis: Yeah. Drive back to camp, wash up, get the blood off us. Mm. Get a bit of a bandage on, get some tape around it 'cause the bandages just weren't holding it, just kept bleeding.
And-
Tiffany: Yeah ...
Travis: and, uh, got a couple hours of sleep.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: Got back out there at first light, and in your head you're positive we'd be coming back to a bear on the pile.
Tiffany: Yeah, so my concern was bears eating... I, I had, I didn't have a lot of concern about bears eating the meat of the bear. My concern was that there were gonna be bears circling, going for the guts.
Travis: Hmm.
Tiffany: I didn't really sleep much that night 'cause I was just still adrenaline flowing from the whole situation, and then concern about leaving it. I don't, it wasn't an ideal situation. I, I didn't like leaving it there, but I felt like it was the best choice, uh, to re- re- like, to retain as much meat as possible, as well, um, you know, for our own safety.
We've got kids. We gotta [02:26:00] make smart decisions.
Travis: Yeah. In the, um- Anyways, we get back there in the morning, hike on down. Yeah. Now, when you hiked out at nighttime, I was like, "Oh my God." Like, this, this is a hell of a hike out. Like, you were- Well, yeah ... not looking forward.
Tiffany: No, that's the other thing too. I have a hike at the end of the month, um, and so I was welcoming the exercise, uh, it's, as a bit of prep for it.
But as we walked up that hill, I was like, "Oh, dear God, like, I am not gonna have fun tomorrow."
Travis: Yeah. That was, uh, that was something that was going through my head as well. Yeah. Like, it... W- are you gonna be okay going up and down this? Like, I didn't know if we were gonna get you out of that hillside, 'cause like I say, it was like hand over hand- Yeah
in some, some certain areas. Uh, luckily it proved that I think it was more adrenaline that was- Yeah ... really hindering you the night before.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: And so we got down there and we... Awkward position.
Tiffany: Mm. [02:27:00]
Travis: And you said, "Well, tell you what, why don't, uh, why don't we bone it out? Rather than hauling all of the meat back up, let's bone this out."
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: And, uh, and you did that. So you- Mm ... boned out the entire thing yourself, skinned it back, boned it out, and, uh, that's, for me- knee surgery, kneeling down, bending over, big guy, all the areas. Yeah. You made- It's my
Tiffany: favorite part.
Travis: Yeah. You like it. You made short work of it. Yeah. And I said, "Okay, I'll, I'll hike the entire, I'll hike everything out."
Tiffany: Yeah, and I just kept saying like, "At least let me take the head." And you're like, "Nope." I'm like... I, I kept insisting, and you kept insisting harder, so I was like, "Oh, okay, fine." You're nowhere up the hill. So
Travis: we got it out. Awesome recovery of meat. Yeah. Got a lot of meat off of it- Yeah ... which is, um, which is good.
I was, I was a little concerned on that, but, uh, ended up getting the meat from there, and-
Tiffany: Yeah. Ton of meat.
Travis: [02:28:00] Yeah. And, uh, now, now we've got some, uh, meat to process. We were- Yes ... gonna record this around the campfire, but we're too damn tired at the time.
Tiffany: Yeah. No, there's... It was just wash up, fall asleep.
Travis: Yeah.
And now, uh, now we're back in town.
Tiffany: Yep.
Travis: I'm heading off fishing for a few days.
Tiffany: Yes.
Travis: And then I'm gonna return, and immediately on my return, you're heading off for a bow elk hunt.
Tiffany: Yes. Yeah.
Travis: In Idaho.
Tiffany: Yeah. And there's grizzlies in the area apparently, right by Yellowstone.
Travis: Okay.
Tiffany: Yeah, so.
Travis: Yeah, but they can all, they can all pack pistols and-
Tiffany: All these ladies are walking around with guns strapped to their chest, so-
Travis: Yeah
Tiffany: it's a different situation.
Travis: Yeah, it's like, um, you talk to the Americans, and they're like- Uh-huh ... "Are you kidding me? You guys can't pack a pistol when you're out hunting? What if a bear comes?"
Tiffany: Yeah. "
Travis: What if you're bear hunting? What if you're bow hunting?" Like, y- all you have is bear spray with you?
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: Yep.
Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, it's ridiculous.
Tiffany: Yep, it's crazy.
Travis: And then people get, and they'll talk about, "Oh, [02:29:00] but the ef- effect- efficacy of bear spray, it, it's so great over top." I don't know. If you've been around bears long enough, I question the stats on bear spray. I don't discount bear spray. Yeah. I don't think bear spray's bad at all, but I see a lot of things getting lumped into, "Oh, I'm just passively acquiescing.
I'm just- Yeah ... a bear that's walking through. Oh, I got squirted in the face. I'm gone." There we go. Yeah. It's not a predatory aggressive intent bear-
Tiffany: Yeah ...
Travis: that gets squirted and then disappears. Mind you, a, a round placed in the right place, and the threat's over.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: So-
Tiffany: It'd be nice to have multiple options.
Travis: Have them both.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Travis: Yeah.
Tiffany: Yeah, that'd be great. Well, Travis, it's been a pleasure. Yeah, it's been fun. It's been fun. We, we, we've... I mean, I've... This is different for the scope of The Wild Kitchen podcast, so, uh, listeners, hopefully you enjoyed this. Um, Travis and I like to hunt quite a bit, [02:30:00] so, you know, there may be more of these in the future, but, uh, thank you very much for joining me today.
It's been a lot of fun. It's fun to recap and remember the things that I have, you know, forgotten. But, uh, thank you very much.
Travis: Yeah. Thanks for having me on The Wild Kitchen.