Season 9 Changed Everything, Tank is BROKEN and Role LOCK ft P_tato, Donatello & Mikesaboveu

Today we run our first ever 6 man episode to talk about season 9 and the new age of Marvel Rivals 

What is Clear Comms Podcast?

A Marvel Rivals Podcast hosted by Coach Mills and CaptainCoach, two creator and educators for Marvel Rivals. We discuss all things Rivals including META, balance and the future of development. We will often debate controversial topics that surround the game and plan to bring on many exciting guests from pros to devs!!!

Coach Mills (00:00.522)
What's up, everybody, and welcome to a brand new ClearComps episode. And today we're doing a special season nine episode with six guests for the first time ever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we do. We have we have an entire Marvel Rivals roster here. And and I heard I we've read the comments. We we've seen the complaints. Y'all have been wanting, begging for support players to come on the pod. So we invited not one, not two, but three DPS players on the pod.

CaptainCoach (00:10.586)
Got a full team, Mills.

Donatello (00:12.667)
Mm-hmm.

mike (00:13.721)
Mm.

CaptainCoach (00:14.532)
Not supporting, not supporting.

Donatello (00:26.636)
Ha ha ha.

mike (00:27.046)
Ha ha ha ha.

Coach Mills (00:27.306)
To represent all of your opinions. So yeah, and I'm gonna go through and introduce each one of So the first person I wanna introduce coming onto the pod for the first time is a top tier DPS player constantly climbing to the highest ranks of play. Wait.

P_tato (00:27.378)
Yes, sir.

Death and Gaming (00:41.55)
That timing was perfect.

P_tato (00:41.572)
GG.

mike (00:43.251)
Couch knows.

Donatello (00:44.165)
No.

Coach Mills (00:44.728)
we Hello? No Wait, what what just happened? Hello? Okay, alright, alright, alright. When did I get cut off? Because I I I'm gonna fix it in post, but what didn't

P_tato (00:45.653)
That was that had to be staged.

Death and Gaming (00:49.238)
mike (00:49.767)
Ha ha ha.

P_tato (00:50.216)
Was that in the script?

Donatello (00:51.419)
No

mike (00:55.145)
Y yeah, you were like you were like this is

CaptainCoach (00:56.236)
as

Donatello (00:57.497)
You were introducing

Death and Gaming (00:58.318)
The first time the first person. Yeah.

CaptainCoach (00:59.096)
As you're about to say the name, you never said that we were on the edge of our seat.

Coach Mills (01:01.482)
okay, okay, okay, all right, all right, nice, all right. so for the first for our first guest, I'm very excited to introduce a top two DPS player constantly climbing to the highest ranks of play and consistently staying there as a dominant Psylock and Flex DPS player. Potato, welcome to the pod. Thank you so much for coming by. That's very, very excited to to hear what you have to say. Yep, yep. And for our second guest, another

CaptainCoach (01:21.446)
Yeah

P_tato (01:23.374)
Hey, yes sir, clap it up. Hey, yes sir, let's go.

mike (01:24.339)
I'll go.

Coach Mills (01:29.856)
Top tier DPS player, consistently ranking in the top 500, can play a ton of different DPS, and recently is aspiring to become a pro player coming soon. Donatello, thank you so much for coming on the pod, man. Let's go. And of course, we gotta talk about the guy who can play every single character and is somehow rank one at all of them, the young prodigy himself. Mikey, welcome back to the pod. Yo, thank you, thank you.

Donatello (01:44.239)
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

mike (01:57.097)
What's up? Hello, hello, hello.

CaptainCoach (01:58.724)
There he is. There he is.

Coach Mills (02:02.036)
And last but certainly not least, Death in Gaming, content creator, educator, extraordinaire. Thank you for coming back on the pod for your third time, I believe. Thank you so much for coming back. Awesome, awesome, awesome. Well, here. So we got one of the largest changes that I've seen to any competitive game, just kind of seemingly randomly in season nine. and

Death and Gaming (02:10.731)
Yeah, absolutely.

mike (02:11.913)
So nice.

CaptainCoach (02:12.867)
Yes sir!

P_tato (02:16.605)
Hmm

Coach Mills (02:27.348)
I'm sure that there's a ton to talk about, but one of the things I wanted to do right off the bat is there's this list of things that we've compiled as a community. General hot take sentiments, things that people believe. And I'm gonna just kind of throw it out to y'all and I'm just gonna have y'all just give me your take. So this is the first take that kind of I've seen a lot besides season zero, season nine is the best season of Marvel Rivals of all time.

What do y'all think? I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna kick it off with you, Potato. What do you think about that statement? Do you agree, disagree? What's your thoughts?

P_tato (02:59.385)
I don't know. I think season zero for me is still the best season because I know this like basically with this season they made like every hero feel new, but in season zero every hero was like genuinely new. And it was like everyone had to figure out the meta, everyone would figure out who were they wanted to play, what role they wanted to play. So I still think that season zero was the most fun.

Maybe not the most competitive. but like I understand why people are freaking out and saying it's because we were in like a massive drive spell so I can understand where the sentiment sentiment comes from. but nah, I don't think this is the best season ever. I still think season zero is better.

Coach Mills (03:30.72)
Would you would you say it's your second favorite, or do you still think yeah, you think?

P_tato (03:33.671)
Hm. Yeah, I got it like as a close second, one hundred percent.

Coach Mills (03:37.386)
Gotcha.

CaptainCoach (03:37.837)
Is that more just because of the amount of new changes or other reasons like the game feels more fun? Is it more gameplay or? Yeah.

P_tato (03:43.761)
Yeah. Way more fun. the balancing is way better. and just new stuff to play around with, yeah. Just because like the sheer amount of new stuff. One hundred percent.

CaptainCoach (03:53.094)
Crazy how you say the balancing is better considering they just added like a ton of new stuff. You think it's like better than last season for instance as a whole like eight to eight point five all the way to wow.

P_tato (04:01.179)
Yeah, I do, I do. I think they I think they they have like this balanced chaos going on where it's like, all of the playstyles are like equally as abusable. well I mean, you know, it's like everything is broken and some some things are more broken than others, but I don't think there's anything in the game that's like truly bad. You know what I'm saying?

Coach Mills (04:06.654)
Mm.

Coach Mills (04:20.15)
Gotcha. Interesting. Interesting. Donnie, what do you think? What how do you how are you feeling about season nine?

Donatello (04:25.372)
I had a lot of fun in season zero. Like if you wanna compare it both these seasons. mostly 'cause I was on you know, I've been playing Wolverine for for about that time and like nothing beats season zero Wolverine. I mean, no tanks to counter him, no invis, no nothing, you know? I was having the time of my life. but season nine does feel pretty good. I mean, mostly like Tato said, it's just like every character is now like playable, quote unquote. I mean there's still like

Coach Mills (04:37.12)
Yeah.

Donatello (04:54.734)
I wouldn't say throw picks. Still like, you know, when I get a win on my team now, I'm still like scared. But the character is pretty good, honestly. And I've seen pro players like play it. And apparently it's really strong in scrims. but it still feels like scary when you see the character being hovered and in and ranked, you know, in in your lobbies. But yeah, the season just feels nice because it's refreshing. A lot of characters are meta now that you wouldn't really see back then. personally, it's like Iron Fist that like I've been struggling to deal with.

Coach Mills (05:00.022)
Okay, right.

P_tato (05:01.053)
Hmm.

Donatello (05:23.426)
Like even today I played some scrims and we got rolled by this character. It's insane. The Fox team up like he heals when he when he punches, it it's ridiculous. And like some of these characters you just don't expect to be that strong.

Coach Mills (05:30.216)
Yeah. Yeah. I was I just looked at his win rates. He like a almost a fifty two percent win rate despite being picked quite a bit in Celestial Plus. I was actually surprised. It's actually higher than it's been a long time.

Donatello (05:43.298)
Yes, he he's really strong. And that's just like Iron Fist, you know.

CaptainCoach (05:44.719)
So.

So now we're two for two with you and P-Tato both saying there's more things that are viable. How much of that do you think is actually everything's just so crazy so everything works or is it just we haven't figured out the meta yet and eventually it will back be back to the kind of the same stuff where it's like, okay, you're never going to pick Scarlet Witch. That's a throw pick. Or is it really like every thing can compete because you know, whatever the skill ceiling is higher now. Do you think it's mostly that things are more viable or is there more stuff to be figured out? I guess is the question.

Donatello (06:17.614)
Was that a question for me? Okay. Okay, I'll go first. yeah, I think it's still like I think we're still adapting, right? What are we today? Tuesday? It's been the season's been out for for four days. That is that is Yeah, exactly. So we're still like experimenting. even myself, for example, like I thought the Elsa team up was so good with Deadpool with the four stacks and the low cooldowns.

CaptainCoach (06:18.724)
Yeah, yeah.

Coach Mills (06:19.088)
Both of y'all. Yeah, y'all can both respond, however you think.

P_tato (06:21.371)
You can go first, Donnie. Yeah, yeah.

Coach Mills (06:29.578)
Yeah, it's been like yeah, the two technically like two without the hotfix, yeah. Two two from the hotfix, right.

Donatello (06:45.93)
And I think I just switched to the Dino team up, which is the big traps. And this just like gives the a whole other playstyle. You counter dive so bad. You put the trap on you on your back line, and if they play around it, the stun is like twice as long. It's ridiculously OP. So I think people are still experimenting new team up and like obviously you know, when we saw the the announcements made and everything, we saw the team up at first, we're like, this is OP and this is not, this is trash and blah blah blah. But

Like you have to play it and and then certain comps would feel good. I'm guessing even with with Scarlet Witch or Storm or the the characters that we weren't used to see, we just are not like playing them yet. But I think it'll come. Same thing with Blade. I think Blade is crazy this season, but people are still scared to play him. Or nobody even played him because he was bad, a bad pick b in the past season. So not a lot of Blade players.

Coach Mills (07:37.59)
So you're saying it's like kind of mixing up people's pers perspectives or perceptions of some of these characters a little bit?

Donatello (07:43.479)
totally. Yeah, absolutely.

CaptainCoach (07:45.19)
That's an interesting point because you see one person just dominating, or if they stream or make a video, or even just a clip, people are going to be like, I want to do that. So I do kind of agree with that. Sometimes you need to see that person finding that success or being picked in pro. And then all of a sudden, that's now the community perception just starts escalating. But all right, we got next, Mills.

Donatello (08:06.542)
Absolutely.

Coach Mills (08:09.034)
What about what about what about you, Mikey? How do you feel about how do you feel about season nine overall? What's your thoughts?

mike (08:13.433)
it's the most I've ever had, to be honest. Cause like back then in season zero I was a Black Panther OTP, so for me it was just like if I if there was the gamma team up in the game, it was just GG's. So now I think every pick is viable. yeah, I just think it's like a blast, like that every single character you can pick is obviously gonna be way better than ever. And it's just like so much variety and yeah, I just think it's like the best season ever. Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Mills (08:20.022)
That's crazy actually.

CaptainCoach (08:21.889)
Ha

Coach Mills (08:40.17)
Having a good time. Just are you are you mainly playing Torch this patch or are you flexing around to a lot of different things? Because I know you play a lot of characters.

mike (08:45.705)
I'm mainly playing Torch, but with it getting banned a lot, you know, I'm just playing random DPS. Like I'd be I'll hop on like Blade, I'll hop on Elsa, Bucky, I'll just play random characters just because there's so much to learn. And yeah, it's just really fun.

Coach Mills (09:03.274)
What what about you Death? How you feeling? How you feeling overall about the about the season? I know you played quite a bit.

Death and Gaming (09:08.837)
I would say that this is probably I think it's better than season zero personally. Cause I think that like season zero, what makes games fun is that sort of like time it takes to figure things out. Like when everything is new, like what makes games fun is like sort of like the problem solving of trying to figure out like, what works and what doesn't. But also as time goes on, iteration makes things a lot of times hopefully better. And so, you know, back back then I remember like Loki Luna and and stuff just like alt's dumping just being super strong. There was more deathball-y stuff. Whereas like

For season nine here, the player base has has improved since then. So now you got people taking angles, you have people like, you know, kiting out of a bad ultimates. The game just feels more fun to me personally. But I can also understand why season zero would would also have been more fun for a lot of people as well. Because when everything is new, it's exciting to try and figure out what is, you know, ha what isn't what is the new unlocked potential from everything. but for me personally, I thought that they were eight point five was actually getting closer and closer to like polish, but with

all of the new tools that everyone has in season nine. I think that it's is a really exciting, fun way to to shake up the game, which I wouldn't have expected to change like this until like another year or something, maybe. So this is this is surprising. Yeah.

Coach Mills (10:18.07)
Yeah, it's insane. Insane for them to do this. Yeah. So I'm I'm I'm gonna kind of move on to some of these other takes. These are like I said, a combination of hot takes, general sentiment. well, yeah, yeah, go for it.

CaptainCoach (10:28.323)
Wait, can I ask, Mike, weren't you traveling so you didn't play the first day before the hotfix? You were moving, right?

mike (10:34.313)
yeah, I didn't yeah, I didn't play the first before the hot phase. Yeah, I just just moved. So

CaptainCoach (10:38.525)
So this is like a golden opportunity before we move on mills to ask Mike like I tell them what the patch was like before because we have three or five people here who have played on day one and And Mike likes this patch more But they because these are everybody else said season with that season zero season nine you said nine was better So we got two people who say season zero was better who played on day one and then have played post hotfix You know what I mean?

Coach Mills (10:46.686)
yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How how do y'all how do y'all feel about the that Haufix?

P_tato (10:52.285)
No I

Death and Gaming (10:58.433)
Nine nine was better, yeah.

Coach Mills (11:03.488)
No, no, it's like well like seasons yeah, yeah, yeah. I see what you're saying.

CaptainCoach (11:07.619)
So they might have like a kind of like a tainted view of the game. Cause I wanted to know what everybody's opinions were on the hot fix. And then you guys kind of talked to Mike and yeah, go for it, go for it.

Donatello (11:10.914)
Mm.

P_tato (11:14.749)
Well I think I I think the the day one season nine was like if you didn't ban Silock it was a Silock one V one actual serve admin and then if Silock was banned it was just whichever Jubilee was running it down will lose.

mike (11:22.564)
yeah. Yeah.

Coach Mills (11:24.918)
Were it.

mike (11:28.893)
Ha ha ha.

Coach Mills (11:29.878)
Not not not enough real games. Well so so specifically the change that they did, so they they heavily nerfed the amount of ult charge supports got with their ultimate. So they they knocked it all the way down from I believe it was 70 to 55, and then they reverted it to sixty five. So which that five percent difference is the only difference, the discernible difference between eight point five and nine. It's five percent less

CaptainCoach (11:30.06)
Ha ha ha ha!

Coach Mills (11:57.991)
Health to healing to energy generation, right? Which is mostly offset by the new cooldowns. So basically, like supports are as before the hot fix, supports were getting their ultimates a lot slower. After the hot fix, they're getting their ultimates about the same rate as they were in eight point five. Do y'all think that that's fine? Do you think it's fine with all the new T like all the new abilities in the game? Do you not like that change? How do how do y'all how do y'all generally feel about that? Yeah, yeah, go for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

P_tato (12:24.275)
Do you want me to go first or cause I a thought. So I think I I actually I was disagreeing with a lot of people. I think that the hotfix for the support, like buffing the support all charge, was pretty was a good thing. if you played if you played double main support day one patch, like if you played Lunasue or if you played Loki Cloaky, you would get one support all every thirteen years.

CaptainCoach (12:36.633)
Wow.

mike (12:38.067)
I agree.

P_tato (12:47.047)
Being a su like to an extent you have to ha you have to put yourself in the mind of like support players, they need they need to be able to play the game. Right? Like when the patch came out, dive was extremely OP. it still is. And on top of that, you would never get your role, ever. So like the the support player, they literally couldn't play the game. Unless you would play like Mantis Jeff and just run at everybody. Like you literally couldn't play the game if you were a support player. You would just die on cooldown and you would never get your role. So like I think that change was actually pretty good.

I don't know I know everyone else thinks th they they're catering to the heal bots, but bro, if you played it I had a game where I had a solo tank and Lunasue and we didn't get a supportal until four minutes into the game. I'm not I'm I'm not I'm not trolling. Like that that that day one patch for those guys was miserable.

Coach Mills (13:27.2)
So right. So I'm not I'm not gonna disagree with you here, but I'm gonna play devil's advocate here. So the devil's advocate is that that style of play, you know, the style of play what's up? yeah, yeah. That the that style of play is is like like being more passive, not taking angles, not being as proactive is something that

mike (13:28.286)
Yeah.

P_tato (13:37.383)
The devil out.

P_tato (13:41.607)
You gonna let the devil out, bro?

Donatello (13:44.26)
Ha ha.

P_tato (13:45.307)
Pfff.

Coach Mills (13:54.417)
should be encouraged. You know, like you should be encouraged to take an angle on a mantis. You should be encouraged to be more proactive. And like the devs had an opportunity to double down on this. So like like you know, they could have done it in different ways. Like they could have made it so that supports got more ultimate charge for dealing damage as an example. instead of kind of promoting the heel bot or the the idea that like healing is like your main source of value. That's a that's the devil's advocate argument.

P_tato (14:02.13)
Yeah, I agree.

Death and Gaming (14:21.271)
Can I can I can actually counter that one if you don't mind? Like, so heal botting by default is going to get you more alt charge percentage, right? But doing damage, doing giving you less alt charge is a good thing because of the fact that if you help secure a kill, the time it takes for when people are dead that, you know, for them to come back up when you're healing is going to get you more alt charge already. So like.

Donatello (14:23.163)
Mm-hmm.

Death and Gaming (14:47.647)
Dealing damage and healing is one of those trade offs where it's like, okay, if I do damage, I'm not gonna get as much ult charge. But if I secure a pick, it doesn't matter anyway, because then I can charge my ult back up as the enemy team is walking forward. If you make it if you make it even, then I think it it heavily skews like prioritizing it it puts too much on the the damage side of getting too much benefit for that. So I think that like having less ult charge for that is like a trade off of like, okay, if I secure a pick, it doesn't matter anyway. But if I don't, they're gonna get their ult before me.

Coach Mills (15:10.806)
'Cause yeah.

CaptainCoach (15:17.369)
That's a really interesting point. Yeah, because Mills, I saw in one of your games I was watching earlier today, I mean, you eventually won the game, but you kept going in and you fed a ton of ult charge on defense. they ended up getting cloak ult first and just running the table. They got it super fast, right? Is it too much of a penalty now to feed support ult charge now and not secure kills, is my question to everybody? Or is it in the right spot? Or is that not something we should worry about?

Coach Mills (15:17.515)
Because

Death and Gaming (15:17.623)
So I think that's the reason why it's balanced that way.

Death and Gaming (15:43.342)
I think I I think that there's there's a giant problem with the community just like looking at damage numbers and seeing that high, you know, high damage number must mean I was doing well. When like all too often I'll play a game, they'll be like, Silock, you don't have enough finals, but it's like, yo, you have thirty thousand damage and ten finals, and you know, the enemy had support alts consistently because of the fact that you were just pumping damage into tanks, like

I think the player base still needs to improve and understand that, you know, not all damage is good damage. You know, pressuring tanks is good at a time, but sometimes you're making the game harder because of the fact that like you you can't get ultimates off, you know, in a decent way because of the fact that like they always have something to counter. So yeah.

Coach Mills (16:22.208)
Well and I and see like I like I agree with y'all, but like what I'm speaking to is more of a fundamental difference, which is he like supports that are afraid to take risks because the risk means that they aren't there to heal, aren't there to get their ultimates, and aren't there to win the game, versus a support that is like enabled to be more proactive and like almost encouraged to. So like like I I ran into this problem often with Gambit, where like the optimal way to play Gambit for probably like the past like two or three seasons is like you don't

I mean, you're still gonna throw like like anti-cards in the back line on your dives, whatever the case may be, but you just never want to die. Like you want to make sure that you have the tools to stay alive. You don't want to take too aggressive of an angle. You don't want to try to go necessarily even too proactive in the dive, because if you die, you can't flip fights with your ultimate. You want to stay alive, you want to have that ultimate. and so what what I'm saying is that you can encourage a certain style of play with balancing decisions, right? Like you can say

Hey, if you play this way where you're just trying to play to s to live, you're not gonna build your ultimate. Like if you just never make a risk, you're gonna be behind their supports that are taking the angle. And I'm I'm not saying that support shouldn't have got more ult charge. I just the criticism that I've seen is just making it so that they're they're basically they didn't nerf support's ability to get ults. That's what they did. They did what when they did nerf DPS and tanks' ability to get ults, their direct way to get value is with damage, support's direct way to get values with heals.

They just reverted it. They just straight up reverted it. So that's that's the criticism. but to kind of Potato's point, it's like, especially with the shield change, like support backlines are more targeted than ever. I mean the divers are more enabled than ever. so

Death and Gaming (18:02.455)
Yeah. I guess yeah. I guess the question is like if it wasn't the support alt charge, would you rather them have more damage and higher sustain or lower cooldowns then? Because they would they would have to give them something. And I think that was probably I think that's probably honestly is like the best like like Tato said, if you're not getting ultimates anyway, that's probably the better one of the four you could pick from. Because they have to give them something.

P_tato (18:23.027)
Well yeah, that's what's good right now, is like you just play off you just play like off supports like Mantis and Jeff and you just run to people and kill them. Or like you can do that on Luna. You just like play for kills, not like alt slot. Which is what I think people like. Well probably what we like, but like you go on Twitter and it's like it's like gold players are like You know what I mean?

Coach Mills (18:33.782)
Play for kills. Yeah. I I was yeah.

Yeah. Right. Right. What do you what do you think, Donnie? What do you think?

Donatello (18:46.389)
I don't know, I get shit, sorry. I get I'm sick. I get pretty upset. I get pretty upset when I when I get snowballed by a Luna and I get killed in a second and I'm playing like Silock and I'm supposed to win into a support and I just can't do anything. I think this is pretty stupid. But that's just like Luna on top of my head. But s do the support for me at least, they feel really strong into my characters that I play.

Coach Mills (18:51.678)
G give yeah.

mike (18:53.289)
Bless you.

P_tato (18:56.835)
Mm.

mike (18:57.128)
yeah. Yeah.

Coach Mills (18:57.322)
What

P_tato (19:14.663)
Yo, are you in like are you on a plane right now, bro?

Coach Mills (19:15.926)
Wait, what is happening?

CaptainCoach (19:17.445)
You

Death and Gaming (19:17.645)
Mike's Mike's fan in the background? Yeah.

Donatello (19:18.084)
That's not me.

P_tato (19:19.027)
It's not you? it's mine Yo it's you bro! It's you bro! He tried to put it on me

mike (19:20.455)
Is it me? Is it me?

Coach Mills (19:21.278)
Yeah, it is Mike. It's Mike, it's Mike. Wait, it's

Donatello (19:23.035)
Ha ha ha.

mike (19:23.933)
Bro, Tato, I heard that shit from you or two. Hold on, hold on, wait, wait, what's up?

Donatello (19:26.575)
Yeah.

Donatello (19:30.603)
It's both of you guys, I think.

Death and Gaming (19:30.615)
There we go. Yeah.

CaptainCoach (19:33.153)
I knew it! I called it from the start!

Coach Mills (19:33.846)
It's like that's actually hilarious, my bad.

P_tato (19:39.251)
No, I get I I get what Don is saying. Like bro, in a in a 1v1, I swear I swear dive DPS in a 1v1 are so bad, but it's like it's like dive tanks just make the game so easy to play. Like there's just two OP

Donatello (19:53.326)
I agree with that.

Coach Mills (19:54.101)
Yeah. Yeah, because yeah, that's that's always like I think another I I cr light has brought up this criticism a lot that like dive is super broken in the context of like dive tank plus dive DPS go in and then like the dive tank just creates all these openings. But support feels super oppressive in the case of and and and some like in the past like characters like Gene feel oppressive in the case of like

mike (19:55.213)
Wait, is this better? Is this better? Sorry for interrupting, is that better? Okay, okay.

Death and Gaming (19:55.861)
Are they Yeah.

P_tato (19:56.785)
Yeah, yeah, that's good, that's good.

Donatello (19:58.214)
Yeah, you're good.

Coach Mills (20:20.882)
one on one, isolated engagements, no tank, just you. which of course isn't the way that the game is always played, but you're gonna run into those situations in your games, you know, where you have to try to fight by yourself or whatever and it can feel very frustrating getting you know, two tap by a Luna.

P_tato (20:23.441)
Yeah.

P_tato (20:35.377)
Yeah. I can I can make a point that I've seen everywhere, like for the va the vast majority of people who who play dive, or they say they play dive, they mean like picking magic and then like jumping into the entire enemy team one v nine and then they get they get like CC'd three times, booped nine times, nothing dies, and then they go on Twitter and they're like, dive is terrible, support is broken, bro Where it's like Dive Dive is like

Coach Mills (20:51.168)
Yeah.

Donatello (20:57.701)
Ha ha.

Death and Gaming (21:00.235)
Every time.

P_tato (21:02.227)
It's like a team comp. It's like the dive tank goes in, takes all the aggro, your Jeff is piercing, you and the enemy. Like it's so it's so OP. But you need coordination to make it OP and I feel like the only people who say that it's bad is like genuine it's just like melee D P S players in like goal, they just jump in by themselves and die.

And then like they try to 1v1 a Ludisnow or a White Fox. It's like that clipper and t to bring up Light PK, to bring up Light PK, he uploads that that that video of the Iron Fist 1v1 and the White Fox. It's like, bro, that's not gonna happen in the game, bro. Like we're in the practice range, like telling war stories. It's like bro, that's not gonna happen.

Coach Mills (21:21.076)
Yeah, that's line.

Coach Mills (21:32.544)
W do do you think that's why they gave mobility characters the auto regen shield? Because of exactly what you're talking about? Like 'cause it you know, low eagle players have more agency or whatever. They learn the cycles.

P_tato (21:41.521)
Yeah, I do.

P_tato (21:46.194)
Yeah, they I think they they want people to be able to play by themselves. I feel I feel like the whole point and this is like the a big point of the the season nine patch was to give everyone like their own agency. Like a lot of the team ups is like the Venom Blade team up for example. Like if you if you play Venom and you're solo dive tanking, like you can just like do your hit and then go AFK, use your abilities and get your entire health bar back. And you can just play the game again, right? Like they want everyone to be able to play the game by themselves.

Yeah I mean, or they want they want everyone to be able to be able to do that. For like low rank players, they don't they don't need like a bunch of team play to play the game. 'Cause that's kinda how I felt before in the in the earlier seasons, before this patch.

Coach Mills (22:24.906)
I guess that that leads me to this next the one of the next talking points though or or opinion I've I I've read. and I'm gonna have Mikey answer this one first. so the the take is every hero should get the regen shield HP. So what's your take?

mike (22:38.831)
no. I'm sorry. If Bucky got that, bro, I would never play this game again. If Bucky got that, if like Elsa Bloodstone got that, if like these OP like front to back characters got regen like that, I don't think I'll play this game again. Seriously. I think it'd be crazy. I do think human torch should get it because like dives in and stuff. I don't understand why he doesn't. Bro, what? There's no way. No bias.

P_tato (22:46.418)
Whoa whoa.

Coach Mills (22:55.126)
Okay, that's but so so wait, wait, let me let me let me I don't wanna I don't wanna bastardize their argument. So their argument was that mobility characters can always utilize it better, right? Because they have the ability to dip in and out. But like even as a poker, if you just want to like high for a bit, like on the front line, like you don't need your Luna to carry you for you to like get that little bit of healing, right? So that's the

P_tato (22:58.008)
hell no bro. What you think you're a bit do you think you're a bit biased there, buddy?

Donatello (22:58.363)
Hell no.

Death and Gaming (22:59.787)
No, no, no, no.

mike (23:11.94)
Yeah.

mike (23:22.233)
Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Mills (23:24.128)
That's the whole idea. You could of course balance around it, but I I anyways, you can keep going.

mike (23:26.648)
Yeah, there you could like if if that was for every character, you could just flank on Bucky. I mean what are you supposed to do? You could flank on Bucky, you can flank on El Sam and there's like zero counterplay to that. I think it's good that divers are getting regen now because again, like Potato said, like, people are allowed to play by themselves. You don't have to ask for like a Luna Snowflake or just like a pocket or anything. You're allowed do whatever you want now, which is kinda cool. And yeah, I just don't think that would be a good change.

Coach Mills (23:31.562)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (23:51.114)
Wha what do you think, Captain Coach? What do you think? Do you think every hero should get regen H P? What's your thoughts on it?

CaptainCoach (23:55.878)
I mean, I actually think the regen change, I really like it. I could see a world where everybody could get regen and still have it fulfill the purpose of what they want it to be, which is kind of encouraging people. I think, like, I agree with what you're saying, guys. I totally agree. More player agency. Players are able to, like, play the way they want, play on their own, do their own thing. But I also think it's kind of, like, those regen changes on most of those heroes, you got to remember, too, came with nerfs to them in other ways, mainly that they're max health.

So I think they're trying to actually make the dives of those heroes maybe slightly less oppressive, ignoring the Psylocke buffs which got nerfed and trying to kind of encourage people into different niche play styles, which is why some heroes get it and others don't. I think long-term, it's gonna make their game easier to balance. Because now Hulk is like, he dies faster than ever, but he can always just kind of get out of a fight, reset. So it's like more punishing, but you have more freedom to...

P_tato (24:34.255)
Thank you.

CaptainCoach (24:52.185)
go for those types of plays. I feel like the game's tempo is a lot higher too because of it. So I'm for the change. I think it should probably only go to several heroes if that's their goal is to kind of make the game easier to balance. And I think overall it was a pretty clever design change by them. And I'm really enjoying it too.

Coach Mills (25:09.494)
What do think, Donnie?

Donatello (25:11.663)
I mean, for me, I feel like even if they gave it to every character, I feel like even if you you have it on Bucky, there's not really like situations where you can hide for like five seconds now. Like on Elsa or Bucky or all these front to back characters. Like, yeah, maybe you could hold like an angle for like longer without like needing to get help. But like the other characters have a lot of overshield. And like if you're front to back, you kinda want your team to heal. You need to build those support ults. So like you can't have every character just have your health bar go back up and not build anything, 'cause at the end of the day

Like, if I have a cloak on my team and we have first ult, we'll probably end up winning the first fight if we play right. So I can't like we can't have every character have the green bar because then really everyone's gonna play for themselves and it's gonna be like a a fuck fest around the map.

CaptainCoach (25:57.754)
I find it interesting that you're kind of, even as you like you've hit rank one, you're kind of assuming that your teammates in a lot of situations aren't going to try to work together and play optimally and that we should balance the game around that. Is that kind of, I feel like that's kind of like the gist I'm getting from the last two things you said, but you say that's accurate. We should kind of assume a certain level of lack of understanding of the game in the way we balance it. Or do we think we should only

focus on like the top of the top meta.

Donatello (26:30.627)
No, I think when they ba w I think when they balance they need to look at everyone. I know I know like people complain on Twitter. Like the pros, they want the game balanced for them. Like we've seen that. But then the casual wants the game balanced for them as well. So I think it's hard for them and I think first off we need to like give them a break a little bit, because everyone's like complaining every time there's an update. Like people will complain because it's not like affecting them. But like

There's like a tons of player and everyone's in a different like rank and everything. So we need to adjust for everyone. So in my head, I think, like Dato said, the balance with the the green elf bar for the dive is fun for the person who plays dive and wants to kind of just do his thing around the map. And he'll get even more value now because if he's playing Psylock and he's like holding an angle, well, he doesn't need to come back to the Luna or anything. He he can just do his own thing. But at the same time

CaptainCoach (27:13.53)
Yeah.

Donatello (27:25.453)
like it is a disadvantage to your team that your divers, like your venom is regen regenerating like three hundred and fifty HP because you're not getting that as ult charge or anything. So it goes both ways, in my opinion.

Coach Mills (27:35.104)
Healing, right.

CaptainCoach (27:38.566)
Yeah, dude, Donny saying this and then P-Tato saying the support alt charge buff was OK. I feel like this is like Lions letting the Gazelles live to help the circle of life. They're like, yes, of course, you can be OP. You can relax a little bit. We got this. You guys don't have a problem getting kills, I think, is part of the sentiment. I feel like as a tank player, it's maybe a little different. But it's definitely interesting hearing your perspective, for sure.

Coach Mills (27:47.924)
Ha ha ha

Death and Gaming (27:48.48)
Donatello (27:49.251)
Mm-hmm.

Death and Gaming (27:57.365)
But

P_tato (28:06.726)
coach, you just need a queue at a wolf player, bro. And just play Fosball every game and you'll feel just as Zop. Trust me. Like

CaptainCoach (28:12.227)
Yeah, no, I've definitely felt the Wolf team up a lot. I hear you on that one for sure.

P_tato (28:17.715)
You just gotta spam fastball to rank one, bro. That's the best pump in the game.

CaptainCoach (28:19.875)
Yeah, yeah, I got you man, I'll go for it.

Donatello (28:20.251)
Coach Mills (28:23.894)
Okay, here's here's an interesting one. it kind of plays along with what you were just talking about. so the take here is that netties overly caters to the hyper casual community. So I'll let y'all think about that a little bit. Tato, what you think? What's your thoughts?

P_tato (28:42.805)
100%, I agree. Like y they communicate this in with every patch. Like they buff and I also st I also to my chat, I also s to anyone that I talk to, i it's an unanswerable question. I don't understand. How how can you justify buffing characters that are already strong? I don't get it. And the and the only reason would be because

more casual players can't play the characters that are strong. So they have to buff those characters to make it so they can. For example, why would they buff Gambit? Well low rank players can't play Gambit. So they have to buff Gambit so they can play Gambit. Why would they continue to buff main supports? Well because low rank low rank the only things that low rank players play are main supports, so they have to buff main supports. They communicate like this sentiment or this attitude in in every patch. I don't yeah I don't I don't know how like what more proof you need.

Coach Mills (29:34.652)
And and and what do you d do you think that that is good? Do you think it's do you think it's fine? Do you think it's bad?

P_tato (29:39.218)
No, I think it's bad. The reason I think it's bad is because respectfully, I'm not trying to insult anybody, but like low low rank players or like metal ranked players, like people who play the game without a band phase, they don't you don't feel the balance. They're gonna tell you that they do, but you don't know you don't feel the the patch note. Wonder could be hard meta and nothing that you do in gold would change. Like it doesn't matter. The game state doesn't matter in gold, the game state doesn't matter in diamond. Trust me it doesn't. Everything is broken in that rank.

Like you can six stack in this rank and you can go play Gator, five tanks, one rocket, and you can win every game. Like, the game state in those ranks doesn't matter. The re

CaptainCoach (30:15.045)
Yeah. This is good. This is really good. We're trying to recreate the lights flat drama live on the podcast. We just, we just need one person to disagree. Who's it going to be death? You want to step in? It just needs to be.

Coach Mills (30:20.73)
Yeah.

Donatello (30:21.401)
Ha ha ha.

mike (30:21.883)
O

Death and Gaming (30:26.079)
I could do it if you want me to.

Coach Mills (30:27.806)
Yeah.

P_tato (30:29.211)
Okay, but do you actually do you actually think that though? Come on.

Coach Mills (30:32.33)
Yeah no.

Death and Gaming (30:33.089)
D do I actually think that like the game like caters to casuals? Like

CaptainCoach (30:33.092)
Hahaha

P_tato (30:37.905)
No, do you think that like the balance changes matter for the vast majority of people who play this game?

Death and Gaming (30:42.525)
no. No. I think that but I think that there's also a problem with the fact that, you know, what I try to do and I try to combat all the time, whenever because like I'm known as like an educational like rivals creator. I teach lower rank players how to play the game. And my whole thing is that if you are in the lower ranks, you just don't know how to play yet. That's your problem. It's and I this is why I've always said I will never do a tier list because tier lists matter to like you, Tato. It matters to you, Donnie and Mike. It doesn't matter to someone who's in

Even GM3. Like, it doesn't matter to you. You can take any hero to celestial. So the problem is that low-rank players are mimicking and parroting the stuff that they hear higher rank players, like, poke is so OP right now. It's like, dude, you're in platinum. Like, that doesn't matter to you. So, you know, but I do think that, you know, there I've done a video on it already saying that like I don't think the game caters caters to one or the other.

P_tato (31:14.482)
Yeah, I agree.

mike (31:25.711)
Ha ha ha.

Coach Mills (31:26.193)
Ha ha ha

Donatello (31:26.692)
Ha ha ha.

Death and Gaming (31:38.466)
And the example I use is Silock, and maybe I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this, Tato. Silock when she first came out was very bursty. So in low ELO, she could easily dominate. And so they nerfed her to be an alt bot, which wasn't very good. But then they put her strength back in her cooldowns, which made her neutral better. And now she is harder to utilize, but her neutral kit is better and she's gone through this evolution where I think she actually is like a five-star difficulty now, and she's less punishing in lower ELOs.

And I think that that's kind of what they try to do. And it's not they don't always hit the mark, but gradually over time, the goal is okay, how do we make something that's not super punishing while they're learning, but in high rank, it still has good skill expression. And that's what I think that they're trying to do over time. But like players just get impatient where they see one patch and they're like, my God, Silock got nerfed. The world is ending. Like, you know, people complain that Silock got nerfed right after the patch, but she needed to be nerfed bad. That was way too powerful on the first day.

P_tato (32:34.291)
Mm one hundred percent.

Death and Gaming (32:36.193)
So it's like but the problem is the community sees like, my tier my character went from S tier to A tier and now they're useless. Like, no, that's not how that works. Like if you're good, you can still play.

mike (32:43.298)
yeah.

P_tato (32:44.465)
Yeah, like I I had When I sparked on my stream, I think ninety percent of the first things people typed is Saluk is dead. Are we doing the Saluk funeral? Are we doing the Salloc funeral? And I'm like, bro, she's still OP. Like, they see they see reduced the that word on Twitter and they think the character is garbage. It's like bro

mike (32:53.087)
Okay.

Death and Gaming (32:53.217)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Coach Mills (32:53.57)
Ha ha ha

CaptainCoach (32:54.393)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Death and Gaming (33:02.391)
Yeah. Right.

P_tato (33:04.753)
Like, do you see what I mean? Like that's my point. Like these guys they don't they don't you don't feel the pa the balance change in lower ranks. You don't feel it. They could ch they could make the game anything, and i you could still play anything. It doesn't matter. It's like so that's why I say they should prioritize the higher ranks and balance, because that's where it actually matters. That's where it's that's where it's felt.

Coach Mills (33:05.352)
Ha ha ha.

Death and Gaming (33:06.689)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (33:23.574)
So here's the here's one I I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna play devil's advocate again against you, Potato. so like you said, like with dive being broken, if you have that coordination, right? You have the you have the heel and so like that's this is why like for the past like three seasons, dive has been broken in pro play, right? Like like dive has always been broke, caps been broken, Venom's been broken, Jeff, you know, Daredevil, all that stuff. And even in the highest ranks of play, you don't always get that because you don't have that level of coordination. You don't get even in the even in Top 500, you're not necessarily always getting dive all the time. People are playing

P_tato (33:52.551)
Hell no.

Coach Mills (33:53.473)
People are getting playing triple support. So what what would you say to the pro player that comes in and says, We need to bounce around us, not bounce around you? We need to bounce around the pro scene, not bounce around the the high rank play. We don't care about top five hundred, we care about a healthy pro environment. What would your response be to those people?

P_tato (34:11.667)
well, I can give them the response that goal players give me where it's like, but we're the majority, so they should bounce the game around the majority of people.

Coach Mills (34:18.486)
That's that's what I'm saying. That's they yeah, that's what I'm saying. Well that's what that's what I'm saying. Is it w it would be kind of a similar argument, right? Well, they're they're gonna make the same argument to you. They're gonna say that that your ranked experience doesn't actually it's not reflective of the power of the of the actual game because they you know, when they actually play the game for real, according to them, the pros, they say, you know, this is not meta, that's not meta. Triple support's not even a problem because you know the top teams don't even play it because they just kill you and dive. So who cares about your triple support complaints? That's I'm just saying that's the arguments they will make.

CaptainCoach (34:20.448)
No.

CaptainCoach (34:48.729)
I'm kind of curious to hear Mike's view on this, because Mike, you've been someone who I would say from your content and what you've said on previous podcast episodes, you're kind of more for making the game popular for everybody. Would I be accurate in that statement?

mike (34:59.319)
Yeah. Yeah, I mean honestly, like I just love the game and no matter what happens in this game I'll still play it. So like if they cater to the to like the gold players, the silver players, I really could not care less. I'm being like I I don't know if that's a bad thing to say, but it is what it is. I'm glad that a lot of people are enjoying the game and that's what I enjoy seeing. Like just play no matter what.

CaptainCoach (35:22.858)
yeah, so what would you

Coach Mills (35:23.242)
I I don't think I've ever seen you have a bad time on stream. Every time I tune into the stream you have it again, like like I I I clicked on three people's streams, they were all crashing out. Like and I was like

mike (35:25.805)
No, yeah, I I I love Rivals. I what can I say? I love rivals.

CaptainCoach (35:31.017)
So I want to I want to do a hypothetical though so like let's say what's something that's like really only broken in pro play and not in normal I can't I'm drawing a blank Jeff Okay, so what if they just made Jeff absolutely terrible because he's too good in pro play and like Jeff popular rivals character now just

Donatello (35:32.394)
Huh.

mike (35:32.771)
Yeah.

mike (35:40.24)
P_tato (35:41.255)
Jeff the Jeff character.

CaptainCoach (35:51.814)
Sucks there's clips of them just getting completely owned Do you think that would be better or worse than the alternative which is balancing them around the lower ranks? I guess is like if you had to pick a side

mike (36:03.885)
A tá mandando

CaptainCoach (36:04.117)
Mike. Yeah.

P_tato (36:04.243)
I'm taking the sh I'm taking the shotgun back.

Coach Mills (36:05.396)
He said it like that here. that's good.

mike (36:11.18)
wait, can you ask it again? Sorry, I just like I I thought you were asking potato, sorry, I

Coach Mills (36:13.716)
Yeah.

CaptainCoach (36:15.651)
Balance around pro play or casual? Pick. If you had to pick. Like we're talking like top level pro play. Not, not eternity, not, not even top like top, like the pro scene.

mike (36:18.403)
Coach Mills (36:20.726)
Yeah, if you had to pick extremes. You could you couldn't like stop at like GM three or Celestial or whatever.

P_tato (36:23.635)
Choose a side.

mike (36:27.535)
mike (36:33.295)
I this might be a hot take, but I think balance for the casuals. Like I I I get it the pros are playing top of the top game. There's like a there but that at the end of the day there's like how many of them? Like maybe a couple hundred, maybe hundred, two hundred. So why would we balance around a hundred, two hundred people rather than like the millions of people that play the game? Again, potato, I understand your argument that like it it doesn't matter. But you know, I just feel like we shouldn't really

Cater towards the hundred, two hundred people. Again, I don't know the exact number, but I know what Tato's gonna say.

CaptainCoach (37:07.641)
million? You're talking about the console players?

Death and Gaming (37:09.737)
I I legitimately I legitimately think that you can you can balance to both. It's not a it's not a question of like, okay, like there's no th there's Yeah.

mike (37:11.001)
Yeah.

CaptainCoach (37:15.237)
No, no, no, no, no, no,

Coach Mills (37:16.598)
yeah yeah yeah yeah go for

P_tato (37:18.343)
Well, can I give the pushback? Can I give the pushback?

mike (37:21.326)
Yeah.

P_tato (37:22.279)
Bro, like, think about bro, the perfect example was Dino. Bro, when Dino came out, everyone on Twitter, the funny dinosaur! And I'm miserable! I am miserable! I wanna delete the game! Bro, like w this character is terrible for the game. But they would still they would still have fun if the character was terrible. Like if Dino came out and he did one damage and he had two HP.

CaptainCoach (37:26.543)
Ha ha.

Coach Mills (37:30.24)
Well that's fine.

Donatello (37:30.778)
Ha ha.

mike (37:31.375)
Yeah, I remember that.

mike (37:36.29)
Yeah, but like milli but like but like millions of people are having fun though. Like millions of people having fun or like one person not having fun?

CaptainCoach (37:38.041)
Wait, you're a DPS player though.

mike (37:46.639)
Ha ha ha.

P_tato (37:47.971)
Everyone would still be having the same reaction, like the same happy reaction. It w they it wouldn't matter to them.

mike (37:50.319)
I mean I I yeah, I get that. Actually I I get that. I mean Ta Tato has a good argument but I I think I'd like I'd still cater to the majority. Yeah, you know what I mean?

P_tato (37:59.08)
Yeah, I get what you're saying, yeah. They they probably should do what you're saying, but they should because it's like what makes most people happy. But I think for the objective health of the game they should do what I'm saying.

mike (38:04.672)
Yeah.

It yes. I I agree. I agree.

Coach Mills (38:08.49)
I guess I guess what what low ELO players get most upset at is when they complain about something and then a high ELO player says, just get better. That that's actually not a real problem. you're dying, you're dying, 'cause like right now BP as an example. So BP is terrible. Like in Celestial Plus it only has like a f like a forty six percent win rate. But pretty low. But every rank lower, like in Grandmaster, it's forty nine. In in the rank before before that, it's like fifty three.

mike (38:19.041)
Yeah.

P_tato (38:19.697)
Okay, that argument is brain dead.

P_tato (38:31.57)
Yeah, he's broken.

Coach Mills (38:35.53)
And then like in silver, it's like fifty-five percent win rate right now. So, like, I mean, we you know, all of us are Celestial Plus. It's like we could just say, Yeah, just get better. The character loses. Like, just get better. Just mark the fucking character. You know what I'm saying? Like, your your experience doesn't matter, your balance doesn't matter, just get better. We could say that. Or we could be like, you know, maybe you know, something should be done about it. But I that's what I'm I'm curious about your opinion on it. Do you think that that is like like there are gonna be growing pains? Like they just have to improve, or do you think

mike (38:38.552)
Yeah.

mike (38:48.761)
Yeah.

mike (39:04.661)
I I I think they just have to improve, honestly. Like I I get it, like you can make the argument that Squirrel Girl's broken there, Scarlet Witch is broken, but like if you have a true understanding of the game, like the reason you're lower ELO is because you don't know how to play the game, like straight up. Like you you're just gonna get better as time and then the better you get at the game, the more you'll realize that like Panther or like Scarlet Witch or Squirrel Girl are just not good. That's that's what I think. I just think

Coach Mills (39:04.842)
That's not like something should be done at all.

Coach Mills (39:32.128)
Well that well that's like what balancing for the casuals would be to like go in and nerf squirrel go in and nerf Black Panther.

mike (39:36.012)
Yeah. It yeah, it's just like I don't know. It's just it's just a hard thing 'cause like how do you truly balance every single rank? Like I I think that's genuinely possible. I don't think it's possible. But like, you know, I th I had to choose the side before, but like I seriously don't even think it's possible. I it's like

Donatello (39:36.537)
Yeah, then you're going against your point, like

Coach Mills (39:40.053)
I know it's a

P_tato (39:41.949)
COIT!

Donatello (39:47.887)
Yeah, it's impossi it's it is impossible.

Coach Mills (39:49.642)
Well, what what do you what do you think

Coach Mills (39:54.112)
What what do you think, Donnie? You you haven't given your take in a while.

Donatello (39:57.04)
I'm more like laid back towards the balancing, to be honest. The patch notes like honestly, I read the like the big one and like I'm not gonna lie, I don't even know the name of the ability, so when I read all that, I'm still confused. But like the big one that like when they they gave the the green health bar. Like I was reading this on stream and I was I was having a stroke. I couldn't understand half of what I was reading besides the character that I was playing. And even when the the like the hotfix came out

Coach Mills (40:10.358)
Wait, which one? Wait, the the yeah.

mike (40:15.053)
The team ups? yeah.

mike (40:19.544)
Ha ha ha ha.

P_tato (40:20.291)
Mm.

CaptainCoach (40:21.209)
You

Donatello (40:26.201)
I just g I just got straight into ranked. I didn't read that. So like I yeah.

Coach Mills (40:28.79)
Typical DPS player just fucking lo no.

CaptainCoach (40:29.482)
This is alternate timeline light. This is alternate timeline light, bro.

mike (40:31.812)
P_tato (40:32.935)
Whoa whoa whoa Don't put me in there. I read that

Donatello (40:34.477)
I mean I mean I do that to be honest. I I never I never warm up. I'm straight into ranked. So like to be honest, like the hot fix could have been anything and I probably wouldn't have realized, but that's just me. But I do think like balancing is probably impossible in in the game like this. I mean the character comes out, he beats other characters, like a rock paper giant like a giant rock, paper, scissors games at the end of the day. So like if a character counters another one, then the character's bad now. He's dog shit because this character's in the game.

Death and Gaming (40:36.437)
I learn through play, man. Yeah.

Donatello (41:04.313)
So it's like it's so hard to balance. And I think at the end of the day, like balance is kind of subjective to each player. Like, like Tato said, like, Sylock lost one damage on her on our sh on our shirk and she's terrible now. Like, no, she's not. You know? Like, to me, these small adjustments, like, yes, sometimes they'll affect the character. But like, another example is a Dino. Like, Dino was super, super broken when he released. He got nerfed, but his nerf wasn't that crazy. And then we've never seen him.

Ever again in ranked. Like, I don't see that character anymore. So I think people just adjust, people learn what's good, what's not. People get inspired from what pros play, from what our like games look like in top 500 and and like higher celestial, I guess. And then people start playing these characters and they and they realize they're good. But like I've seen some like BP players like hunt, like in my games, and he just dominates on that character like last season, even though the character was terrible.

I guess, quote unquote, like pursues from the community, but you made it work. I think it's all about like how you play the character at the end at the end of the day. Like a a tad nerf won't change the entire character.

Death and Gaming (42:18.061)
Yeah, I agree.

Coach Mills (42:19.926)
Okay. So like a split approach, like you can I got you.

Donatello (42:22.627)
Yes. I'm not like but to me I like balancing will never be like unless they would they would like completely rework a character, then I get like that the widow mains were upset 'cause that's different.

mike (42:24.143)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (42:32.435)
yeah, that that that segue segue to the other thing we needed to talk about was widow. Yeah, yeah, perfect segue.

Donatello (42:35.771)
Yeah. That is you know, that's where people can get upset. But if if like your character loses his like two damage on an ability, my combo doesn't one shot anymore. Well, it's really, really rare that you're gonna hit your full like practice range combo, even though I I like I got memeed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was about to say, I was about to say, even though I got memed on, you know, like I I never really hit that combo. But the point was from when I made this video is that the character when Elsa released

mike (42:50.839)
The Donatello seven hundred HP combo.

Coach Mills (42:51.701)
the the the practice range combos.

P_tato (42:52.883)
The six hundred HP one shot combo.

Donatello (43:03.139)
Is that when I played against bots, I instantly knew the character was broken. And she was. I was right. And I when I made that video, like, yes, I'm hitting that combo in game, but of course, like the Groot's getting healed, but like it's still a shit ton of damage. But even though if you remove two damage from that combo, well, it goes from 700 to 680, like it's not bad. So yeah, I guess I

Coach Mills (43:20.77)
You're right. Right. your perfect and you're perfect. Well I I know none of us here really are widow mains. I did want to talk about Widow because I think like Widows are really interesting. It's our first like fully reworked character, and also like a character that I think had a lot of there's a lot of criticism. Like a lot of widow mains are pretty upset. I know that some people like the change, like the rework. The character is performing better than they did before. But like

CaptainCoach (43:22.315)
Hey set the Hulk lives that now by the way, that's a break. That's a that's a breakpoint buff

mike (43:24.697)
Ha ha ha.

P_tato (43:25.555)
Let's go.

P_tato (43:48.275)
I love it.

Coach Mills (43:49.121)
For like yeah, I saw I saw your tweet about it. But they're the diehard widows, like I talked to I talked to Zaza, I talked to X Lick, I talked to like basically every widow player I know and like none of them are happy with the change 'cause like the character they fell in love with is not like it's that's not the character anymore.

CaptainCoach (43:58.085)
I'm pretty-

Pretty sure X like just hit his peak rank. I saw he was like ranked like 60 today or something like that.

Donatello (44:04.891)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Mills (44:06.94)
Yeah, I mean he might be frying. He said he changed his opinion a little bit, but he he s he did Yeah, yeah. Wi winning w winning will change all your opinions on so I think that's a good point.

CaptainCoach (44:11.907)
Winning helps with that, but yeah, he seemed pretty disappointed. Nervous, total doomer, like doesn't like it at all. There's quite a few, I think, I don't know, you said Zaza was happy about it? No. No way! No! I mean.

P_tato (44:11.921)
Yeah. They're they're all gonna come around eventually.

Death and Gaming (44:20.439)
Yeah, he's unhappy.

Coach Mills (44:25.91)
She's v no, she's very upset. She hates it. Yeah, no, she's she was actually very upset. Yeah. Yeah. Well, cause like, okay, th think about it. Think about it this way, like what if tomorrow they just decided that like Silock is unhealthy and they changed the character into something you didn't enjoy anymore, right? Like, and that's your that that that's why like right, right. Cause I cause I went through this

Death and Gaming (44:26.241)
Does it not not happy?

P_tato (44:26.707)
Well I saw I saw her she was like crying on stream the other day for about it. Shit was tragic.

Donatello (44:29.093)
Yeah.

mike (44:30.052)
Was it?

P_tato (44:33.363)
Yeah, I felt bad. But y I get it.

Death and Gaming (44:34.327)
Like

P_tato (44:40.635)
Yeah yeah yeah. I get it, I get it. Well I mean I I play like ninety characters, so I wouldn't care that much, but I get it. 'Cause it's like the entire identity of why you play the game is just gone.

Death and Gaming (44:41.611)
I I quit the game. Yeah.

CaptainCoach (44:45.071)
Mmm.

Coach Mills (44:52.222)
Right. Right. I I went through a very similar thing in Overwatch with D PS Doomfist. swapping over to Tank Doomfist. Like I I because like I lost my the thing I loved, you know, like the like and and some people took it harder than me 'cause I was a flex player, but like when you get when you're a one trick, like a hard one trick like torch, like what if they just like I don't know. I completely changed Torch, turned him into a fucking support. I don't know, did something crazy to him and you couldn't play that character anymore. Yeah

CaptainCoach (44:55.973)
I don't know man.

P_tato (44:57.885)
War in my eyes.

mike (44:59.575)
It was broken.

CaptainCoach (45:06.724)
Yeah.

mike (45:14.859)
Adapt and overcome, that's what I do, bro.

Death and Gaming (45:15.393)
All right.

CaptainCoach (45:16.677)
That's what I'm saying, bro. Like they want to make Hulk a ranged character? They want to make Hulk a ranged character? I'll just be like, this just, you know, like one of those monkeys, man.

P_tato (45:17.277)
Facks Facts.

Coach Mills (45:18.587)
Yeah, my Mikey g Mikey got that mindset though, yeah, that's true.

mike (45:22.143)
Yeah

Coach Mills (45:24.936)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's I mean I y I mean, hey, they they wait like like a couple of months and there'll be so many new characters, maybe there'll be something new they like. Who knows? Like I mean, I don't know.

P_tato (45:25.021)
Bro, exactly, bro, exactly.

Death and Gaming (45:25.269)
I

P_tato (45:35.261)
Like bro, I don't I don't get this outrage over the widow. Like, what was the character before? You'd sit main, you scope in, and you press mouse one. Now you jump, dash, kick, melee, hold right click, charge, and then you use the all and you can shoot combo with the right There's so much more going on and it's better. How is that how is that?

Coach Mills (45:50.551)
Right No, no, they you you sa you sound like you sound like me in twenty seventeen bitching about Widowmaker. I I fucking hate that game just that standing there just like holding the angle. Yeah, it's no it's the same thing, yeah. Healthy healthier, yeah. What do you what do you what do you think, Mike?

mike (45:53.059)
But but like I th but the there.

Death and Gaming (45:54.911)
I I wait.

Yeah. I th

P_tato (46:00.596)
No, but I'm saying like the rework is better like like in balancing and in gameplay. I don't understand how you cannot like that.

mike (46:07.843)
I think that's like bro, that that's kind of ridiculous to say because some people love a character because of that. You know what I mean? Like some people like to be like a halo like sh it's like a halo sniper kind of that's the Bushy kind of reminds me of.

Coach Mills (46:19.594)
Kind of, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

CaptainCoach (46:19.651)
Yeah, well, sniper in TF2, Team Fortress 2.

P_tato (46:21.746)
yeah, I just I just can't have fun doing that, so I don't get it.

mike (46:23.927)
Yeah, exactly. Like everybody's gonna have a different opinion. But like s I would I understand, like I would a completely understand if I played a character for like what, a year and a half and then just out of nowhere they changed her, I would be pissed off too. Like I I understand why a lot of people are mad. But I also understand why they would change her because, you know, she wasn't

The greatest. They're they're trying to again cater to like everybody playing Widow now and not just like the 0.001% of people that are just like like to be a sniper. And I also do think that there's not really a place in the game, like in Marvel Rivals, for a sniper. It just doesn't make sense. Like with all the other characters in their game, just a sniper like that, I just don't feel like she has an actual place in the game with all the mobility and stuff. I that's just my opinion.

Coach Mills (47:08.148)
Okay, follow up question. you're going go on death.

Death and Gaming (47:08.427)
I th I think the hmm. I was gonna say I was like, I think two things can be true at the same time, which is that one, the people who enjoyed a w a widow's playstyle of being a sniper before can be upset. And two, the rework can be better for the general audience. Like both of those statements can be true at the same time. And, you know, it's hard to like you know, make it good for everybody. whether or not it was a success depends on who you ask. But, you know, to me, I didn't mind snipers because of the fact that like

Donatello (47:25.189)
Yeah.

Death and Gaming (47:37.004)
Snipers in shooters are a a positioning check. You know, I see people complain about snipers, but it's just like you watch their gameplay and they peaked the sniper in the same window four times in a row. And it's like they eventually got hit in the fourth shot and they're like, snipers are OP. It's just like, why do you keep lining yourself up for their headshot? Like to me, that's one of those things where snipers are are one are should be this educational tool of saying, like, hey, don't walk down main without cover. Like there's lots of places around the map, and maps are also like the way maps are designed.

CaptainCoach (48:04.239)
Yeah.

Death and Gaming (48:06.347)
either benefit or hurt snipers depending on the way that they're made. So it's like if snipers are too strong on certain maps, it's not that the sniper is overpowered. It's that the, you know, the map doesn't quite complement ways around it. So there's other ways to balance around it. So I do think that snipers can work in these games, but also at the same time, I I used to complain about this stuff in Overwatch. Like just stop s just stop peeking the sniper from the same spot and you'll stop getting shot in the head. Like I don't

CaptainCoach (48:22.713)
Yeah, it's.

CaptainCoach (48:28.997)
The widow rework was a complete failure. Like if they want to keep the sniper identity, is... Again, something that, like, for one of the, like, TF2 is pretty much like the first hero shooter. The character is literally the sniper in that... What's up?

mike (48:34.262)
Yeah.

P_tato (48:42.685)
Snipen's a good job, mate. He's Australian like me!

Death and Gaming (48:45.281)
Yeah, snipe is yeah. The Australian accent. Yeah.

CaptainCoach (48:47.001)
mike (48:47.127)
Just say voice lines like Daredevil One Two.

CaptainCoach (48:49.573)
You can, you can, right, right, that's right. Yeah, well, I played the sniper in TF2 as well, and the scout. So that was my, that was my shit. So it's real simple. Just like obviously instant one shots, like high burst damage in a game like this where sustain just heals everybody up and you live till ults is like a win con in a lot of situations. Obviously that's going to be a very hard mechanic to balance. Just put a bleed on it. So she, you do 60 % of their health and then they tick down to zero. So you still get the kill if they land headshot, but they have some counter play.

Coach Mills (48:52.459)
You do

P_tato (48:54.926)
hell yeah.

Coach Mills (48:55.583)
We yeah.

Coach Mills (48:59.638)
I swap to the bow.

CaptainCoach (49:19.141)
Real simple. They could have just done that, kept her identity exactly the same, gave her a little buff to compensate with mobility, maybe quicker scoping. Boom. You got Widow now as a meta character. So there are times where I feel like the devs do mess up. Normally I give them credit, but there was, I don't think changing the whole character was the play, personally. Like that. Even if she's better, which she-

P_tato (49:40.463)
I actually agree with that. I think that's a good point. Or a good yeah. Like a good idea, a better idea, yeah.

CaptainCoach (49:43.695)
Thank you.

Coach Mills (49:45.559)
Follow up question, 'cause I think that at least I th I believe that there were probably other characters that deserved a rework before Black Widow. Are there any other characters that you would rework if you were in charge and who who would it be? I'm curious. Panther. What would you do to

Death and Gaming (49:56.791)
Black Panther.

P_tato (50:00.5)
Hell.

Death and Gaming (50:00.684)
I I'd I'd turn him into a fighter or a brawler or something like that because like he is like his entire play kit isn't is just frustrating. Like

Coach Mills (50:06.038)
You're you're gonna you're gonna run into you're gonna run into the same problem right now. You know, everyone's like mourning Black Black Widow. Like it's gonna be like times ten. Like there's there's so many loyal Black Panther players that they'll they're gonna lose their shit. I mean any

Death and Gaming (50:13.697)
yeah, a hundred percent. It's not it's it's not

P_tato (50:19.251)
Yeah, Mike has the warster hearing you say that.

mike (50:19.39)
yeah.

Death and Gaming (50:19.906)
I know. Say what?

Coach Mills (50:21.929)
Ha ha.

Donatello (50:22.562)
Mm-hmm.

P_tato (50:23.719)
Said Mike got the war stair, a thousand yard stair, BP rework.

Coach Mills (50:25.576)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Death and Gaming (50:26.897)
I it's like literally like Black Panther's entire kit is just to entirely blow someone up before they can react and or he's totally useless. And in in the higher ELOs, what you do is like every time I see there's a Black Panther in the game, I just immediately follow him around until he switches.

Coach Mills (50:30.869)
Mm-hmm.

CaptainCoach (50:43.685)
Hey!

mike (50:43.919)
I would hate to play against you, bro. I would hate to play against you.

Coach Mills (50:44.274)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

P_tato (50:45.809)
Yeah. Go thing.

Death and Gaming (50:55.937)
I will literally spend my whole game following you around and do nothing else. And my back line will yeah, my back line will stay alive. I'll end the game zero zero and I'll win because of the fact that I'm just gonna make sure that this person who will stop my my my back line, it just doesn't play the game at all. And like to me, that's I dude. I I I play to win. So I'm like, my strategy is I'm like, okay, I know what this person does and I can't let them do that. So it's just like I know that's not fun.

CaptainCoach (50:58.479)
death.

P_tato (50:58.547)
Yeah, you just have to mark them.

Coach Mills (50:58.838)
Mm-hmm.

CaptainCoach (51:10.691)
I'm gonna need to see your body cam footage, death. You gotta chill, bro.

Death and Gaming (51:23.765)
It's not fun for the supports when the BP gets their way. And it's not fun for the BPs when there's someone like me in the game that recognizes what they do and all I do is I just say, Hey, you're not even gonna be able to fight back. Like, 'cause there's nothing there's nothing in his kit that would allow him to like duel and fight in that way. So something that allows him to fight back would be better, you know. To have decent one v one potential, but also to like dive the back line, I don't know.

Coach Mills (51:45.332)
I would need to I would need to see it. Like I don't even I can't even imagine what it would be or what it could be. What wha what what about you, Donnie? What do you think? If you you reworking any character in the game? Who's on that chopping block?

Death and Gaming (51:50.123)
Yeah. Yeah.

Donatello (51:55.676)
I'm trying to think. I think I mean nah yeah, I was about to say Scarlet maybe because like she's not she's not played. What you mean you can't do that?

P_tato (51:59.698)
Pure

Coach Mills (52:00.149)
Spider Spider Man. No, I'm just kidding. People will lose their shit. Scarlet?

P_tato (52:02.387)
Yes.

mike (52:04.707)
No, you can't do that, bro. It's can't, bro. Bro, because listen, like if you rework Scarlet Witch, bro, some people dead ass wake up and they just wanna sit back, relax, hold left click like this, bro. And like if you're taking that away.

P_tato (52:07.315)
Please reworker, please.

Coach Mills (52:07.7)
You care, you can That's funny.

Donatello (52:11.708)
Nobody plays that character.

P_tato (52:19.869)
So don't wake up. So don't wake up. You tryna play Wanda? Stay asleep. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. It's the same thing as sleeping playing Wanda. It's the same thing. It's the same thing.

Coach Mills (52:21.334)
He said low tier god. We got we got low tier god on the pod, holy gee.

Death and Gaming (52:22.573)
Mm-hmm.

mike (52:23.021)
Wow, wow, bro, wow, wow.

Donatello (52:26.393)
Ha ha.

CaptainCoach (52:30.565)
You're about to get chat restricted

Donatello (52:31.961)
My low key. I think I th I think if you want to rework Wanda She says what? You say what potato?

P_tato (52:36.947)
Bro, am I wrong? It's the same thing. Am I wrong?

Coach Mills (52:44.416)
Yeah.

P_tato (52:44.922)
Don, you agree that character is straight sleeper, no? We need Thank you, see this guy gets it.

Donatello (52:46.839)
Yeah, that character is sleeper, but you should put her you should put her as a strategist, if anything. Just be like Mora, like from Overwatch if I remember. Isn't she like the hit scan or like the the like the tracking with the orbs?

mike (52:48.303)
Yeah, but some people like that.

mike (52:54.296)
No.

Coach Mills (52:56.444)
yeah. No, you you yeah, you be careful what you ask for, cause that motherfucker's just gonna be flanking the entire game, even as support. That's what Morio's did. They never fucking heal they throw one heal orb and then they go flank for the entire fucking game. They end the game like 2020 or some shit and Yeah, ba ba almost identical, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Basically identical. It w

Death and Gaming (52:56.567)
Yeah, the the auto aim.

mike (53:04.985)
Yes.

Donatello (53:04.995)
Yeah.

P_tato (53:05.873)
Mm.

mike (53:07.694)
Yeah, it's right.

Donatello (53:08.769)
I know, I know. But like it could be I swear it was the same character, no wasn't her shift like also like a fade or something. Yeah, so like they could do that. They could roll swap. I feel like that would be kind of fun, if anything, like instead of changing the whole character, like just roll swap her. So like it changes the game as well. And then strategists would be happy. I don't know, they get another support because they're also always complaining that there's more DPS and everything. So like it's like

P_tato (53:09.458)
Wait, like can I

Death and Gaming (53:10.241)
The only way to play her though.

Death and Gaming (53:15.255)
Similar.

P_tato (53:16.603)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the same character, one to one.

mike (53:16.835)
Yeah.

Death and Gaming (53:18.053)
yeah.

P_tato (53:37.299)
Yeah, facts.

CaptainCoach (53:38.277)
Unless you have a summer skin though.

mike (53:38.554)
Forty forty five Scarlet Witch skins coming in, bro.

Donatello (53:38.747)
Two Nah, you're right. We need a summer skin for that.

Coach Mills (53:39.926)
Okay. All right.

P_tato (53:40.116)
Then she'll get one, then she'll get one if they make a support. No, but can I t can I give my point why I think they should rework why they should like full rework her like they did Widow? Like we can never see a version of this game where Wanda is like a powerful character. Because if Wanda was a powerful character, everyone will quit the game. Because it's too brain dead. So because the character is too brain dead, they can never buff her. Because everyone would just quit the game. Right? So it's like a auto aim, AoE spam.

CaptainCoach (53:43.065)
Ha ha ha ha ha.

Coach Mills (53:44.596)
They'll the second she's a strategist, she will. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Death and Gaming (54:05.089)
Yeah. The flaws in her kit.

P_tato (54:10.103)
Stun merchant, Invincibility Merchant. There's nothing expressive about the hero, so they can never make her good. It's like how when Iron Fist It's like how when Iron Fist was broken in season two and everyone was like, well come on man, this this isn't cool. Like what you know I mean like it's the same thing. So if they made her more skill-expressive, then they could buff her and no one would complain. So like I'm I'm looking out for you, widow sorry not widow, wonder players, I'm looking out for you guys, I want the best for you.

Coach Mills (54:13.696)
Yeah, yeah. That sounds terrible as a support though. That sounds awful.

Coach Mills (54:24.606)
Right.

CaptainCoach (54:29.679)
Wait, you don't-

Coach Mills (54:32.211)
shit.

CaptainCoach (54:33.637)
You don't think iron fist takes skill? The heck? Iron fist takes so much skill. Iron fist takes so much skill.

Donatello (54:35.345)
Yeah.

Death and Gaming (54:37.975)
Season zero scientist.

mike (54:38.016)
P_tato (54:38.483)
Is that a real question? Is that is that a real question? Is that a real question?

Coach Mills (54:41.59)
He says that a real question.

P_tato (54:43.889)
Is that sure?

CaptainCoach (54:45.157)
I got a lot of respect for Iron Fist players. I'm just going to say that. I'll leave it at that. Damn. Damn.

P_tato (54:51.251)
Shit, I don't. No, I'm farming, I'm farming. No, but seriously, come on bro. It's like auto aim lock on hero. Like are serious? We we

mike (54:52.591)
clip it, clip it, clip it.

Death and Gaming (54:52.769)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (54:53.206)
shit, I should have upro yeah.

Donatello (54:55.782)
Yeah.

mike (55:01.839)
Yeah, but bro, some people some people like just holding left click, bro.

CaptainCoach (55:03.909)
He's a game sense hero. So much more risk.

P_tato (55:05.287)
Yeah, that's fine. That's fine if you like that. That's fine if you like that. But I don't want to have a game where the powerful characters that everyone plays and like that I have to interact with and I have to be and I have to play are are auto aim merchant. Like w why how is that fun?

CaptainCoach (55:18.797)
Okay, so you think the effort to get your damage off, it should be something that is like heavily considered when balancing a character rather than like game sense and really, okay. I mean, guess that makes sense. Cause you're, you know, like good at aiming, you know, but.

P_tato (55:27.281)
Yeah. One hundred percent.

P_tato (55:33.863)
Well yeah, I'm I'm a hit scan player, so I'm biased, right?

Coach Mills (55:35.274)
Well d do do you do you think all hit like do you hit scans should always be better or or characters that take aim should always be the best characters in the game?

P_tato (55:41.34)
No, I think it should be half and half like it is right now. Like w w where we're at right now is perfect. Like, Elsa's broken, but then there's like checks for it, right? Like if you just play if you play like a dive tank with a cat, you check you can check the Elsa, right? Like she can't run the lobby then. So that's like you know, there's there's there's balance with what's strong. It's not just like every strong character is a hit scan. It's like some strong characters are also melee. and it's it's not like a black and white interaction.

CaptainCoach (55:46.213)
Mm.

P_tato (56:08.071)
Where like like like if there's a hella walking around the map killing everyone, you can just go D D D and mock the Hella and you win every time. You know what I mean? Which is which is good.

Coach Mills (56:19.968)
Yeah, 'cause I think one of the takes on this list was that dive is the healthiest meta for Marvel Rivals. I know we kind of touched on that. What is your what are your thoughts on on on that? Mikey, what do you think? What do you poke at a poke brawl dive? Like I know that the game is a little more complex than just like just three playstyles, but what do you what do you think?

mike (56:40.929)
Yeah. Out of Poke Brawl and Dive what would be the best for the game? Is that what's right?

Coach Mills (56:46.278)
Yeah, yeah, like well or or yeah. The take was that dive would be the healthiest meta. Like but but what what is do you agree or disagree?

mike (56:51.503)
I think dive would be the healthiest meta because it it like it encourages like team play and communication. Rather on Hella you just kinda just like take an angle and just hold left click. So I do think that dive would be better in basically every aspect because it it encourages team play. Rather than, you know, poking brawl, you just you know, poking brawl. I feel like it doesn't take as it doesn't it doesn't take as much skill, I think. So yeah.

CaptainCoach (57:19.813)
All right, I'm going to press you a little bit, Mikey, because you just said, know, like casual versus pro, bounce around the casuals. They don't have that teamwork. you know, what do, like, is there, should we maybe make it so poke has needs a bit more comms?

mike (57:22.19)
Okay.

Coach Mills (57:31.884)
Yeah. And they and they and the la the first time we went to a support strike was when Dive was meta, like hard meta. Yeah.

Death and Gaming (57:38.22)
Season two.

CaptainCoach (57:38.319)
Very true, very true.

mike (57:41.462)
Yeah, like it's just like it's so hard to say because like i if you choose one thing it's gonna affect every single rank differently. So like I I think dive being the best in like high elo would be really good and I think maybe Brawl in lower ELO would be good because you know they're just not they're just you know not

P_tato (58:00.456)
Yeah, this is what I was gonna say. Yeah.

CaptainCoach (58:02.563)
Yeah. So does that mean Brawl never gets to be actually good?

P_tato (58:06.803)
Right, no one likes brawl, be honest.

Donatello (58:07.26)
You mean poke?

CaptainCoach (58:08.901)
I pretty much only play Brawl.

Coach Mills (58:11.306)
Well, I mean you kinda dive you kinda dive, it's divy.

P_tato (58:12.275)
Where you play Hulk.

CaptainCoach (58:14.159)
Why, he's like a mix, he's, you can do... Yeah, yeah.

P_tato (58:15.793)
Yeah, he's like a he's like a hybrid.

Coach Mills (58:17.248)
There there there is no real like Reinhardt style character that just like dominates Brawl in low Elo. Like this game kinda needs something like that that just like I guess Thor ish, I don't know. Like

mike (58:27.181)
I would love a Ryan Hart in the game.

P_tato (58:27.923)
Well dino. We had dyno.

Coach Mills (58:29.512)
Well kinda, yeah. Yeah, but does he dominate in low elo? Like I don't really think he's a little bit too resource dependent comparatively to like like Ryan with the big ass shield. It's gonna be Doctor Doom. thank

Donatello (58:30.788)
Yeah, low key.

P_tato (58:34.739)
Well Yeah, yeah, exactly.

CaptainCoach (58:39.001)
Thing right now I'd say is like, Thing is really, he's really good right now. Like I feel like Thing's pretty good brawl. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I've been, I've been abusing him.

mike (58:39.417)
Yeah.

mike (58:44.141)
Yeah, he or he's broken now. He's OP's OP's OP's O P.

P_tato (58:45.297)
Thing is so broken. Yeah, yeah, he's really, really good.

Donatello (58:46.36)
Yeah, thing is insane.

Coach Mills (58:47.006)
Yeah I w I thought how does that character just not fucking die? He feels like a little bit like release dino, I'm not gonna lie. Wait, whoa

P_tato (58:53.543)
Well, he dies with Mike 'cause he just throws him off the map. But otherwise he never dies.

mike (58:56.047)
yeah yeah yeah yeah don't leak that don't leak that if you're playing think of my team use a team up with me bro

CaptainCoach (58:56.863)
Hahaha!

Donatello (58:57.512)
P_tato (59:00.223)
Mm.

Coach Mills (59:04.278)
He said he used the team. Okay, wait. okay, here's here's a take that I want d I'm gonna put throw it to you, Donnie. so comp bands should mirror competitive pro bands. So like like ignite bands. What what is your what is your takes on it?

P_tato (59:04.307)
Mm.

Donatello (59:04.336)
Ha ha ha.

CaptainCoach (59:04.365)
shit

P_tato (59:09.191)
Come on, Ben.

Donatello (59:22.8)
So in comp we should have ignite bands?

P_tato (59:23.857)
Hail not.

Coach Mills (59:25.322)
That's that that's the take. That's the take that I've been hearing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause yeah. Cause and and and so like the the the several pros that I've had on the pod have said that that comp feels kinda like like a Mickey Mouse, like not really actual comp. And it and they want it to me like actually be real practice for pro play, mirror pro play. Even if it takes longer in the startup screen, they want like real bands. What are your t what are your takes?

CaptainCoach (59:25.482)
The form- the formatting, to be clear. Yeah.

Donatello (59:29.54)
Yeah, like ban protect.

P_tato (59:46.195)
Hey or not. Hey on.

Donatello (59:46.353)
Yeah, well you just said it. It's it would be too long. It'd be too long. Like I'm not trying to wait like f four minutes for the people to be like to have twenty seconds to pick the character they want to play and then ban and then people who are we even gonna protect? If we're six people that wanna play like our character because it's ranked and like run the game down like on Spider Man, like I'm just thinking if I'm with a Spidey One Drake, he's gonna want his character protected, you know? And depending on the meta, then you need to protect something, but it's solo cute, like who cares, man? Like you can't you can't

Coach Mills (59:51.968)
Yeah.

mike (01:00:13.924)
Yeah.

Donatello (01:00:16.258)
make like ranked for the pros. And I I I know what they're saying when they say it's Mickey Mouse because when you play scrims or when you play like coordinated play, well obviously it's not the same game you're playing. Like it's it's not a complete different game, but damn near. So like you just the bands first off the the band fest would be too long. The Q time's already pretty long in high Elo. So like I don't I I wanna get right into the game, you know? If anything, remove the bands and then let everyone play whatever they want, you know?

Coach Mills (01:00:45.086)
shit, yo, yo

mike (01:00:45.82)
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

CaptainCoach (01:00:46.245)
Damn. Yo, chill. I have one of the most counterable characters in the game. the way, Coach Mills had an 18 minute queue today. In your rank up game.

P_tato (01:00:49.159)
Yeah we lost, we lost, we lost. We lost, we lost.

Donatello (01:00:51.246)
No.

Coach Mills (01:00:57.148)
I did have a fuck in C in C three. Yeah, yeah, it's rank up to C three. Like literally Yeah, yeah, I know. Like what the fuck? Yeah, we we w we won. Yeah, we won. We won somehow. So no i we shouldn't have won though. Like we absolutely shouldn't have won. Fucking thank God for Venom being broken to hell.

Donatello (01:00:58.288)
No

P_tato (01:01:00.871)
No, that's 'cause they're trying to find all the agents for you. It was right.

CaptainCoach (01:01:03.413)
Yup. Is it time, Mills? Is it time we just start talking about EOMM?

Donatello (01:01:03.551)
Yeah. Did you end up winning?

P_tato (01:01:06.215)
Did y did you win? Did you win? sh they put them on the enemy team.

P_tato (01:01:15.143)
Yeah, I agree with what Donny is saying. It's like is that's like two extra for ranks. Like we we good. We good. We're not trying to do all that.

Donatello (01:01:20.508)
Yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:01:22.597)
The general sentiment I'm noticing is DPS players are way more chill about everything going on. Like, they're just kinda like cool with whatever.

Coach Mills (01:01:27.094)
Tay Tay take it support well, yeah. Well we've had a lot of tank players on the pod.

Death and Gaming (01:01:30.536)
No.

CaptainCoach (01:01:33.285)
Dude, I gotta take pills when I'm playing the game or else I'll lose my shit like I like I Gotta watch my blood pressure. I got a monitor right here. No joke

Donatello (01:01:35.962)
Ha ha ha.

mike (01:01:36.073)
Ha ha ha.

Donatello (01:01:42.832)
I mean, maybe maybe it's 'cause there's more characters. Maybe there's more D PS or like

Coach Mills (01:01:43.255)
Okay okay, so so A yeah maybe. Okay, so so there's here's two that kinda go together. So the first one is supports are the strongest role in Marvel rivals as the first take. And the second take is DPS has the highest solo carrier potential across all ranks. So do you agree or disagree with Juan? Both let me let me what y'all think. Yeah, yeah, go for go for it, Pratito.

mike (01:01:43.759)
Damn. Yeah, there's like fifty, bro.

P_tato (01:01:46.395)
Yeah.

P_tato (01:02:06.655)
the first one, I think that was true forever until right now with this season. One million percent. Mantis, gambit, and then like any main support, just dominated the game forever. but now you can't get ult. Dive is two OP, you'll just die. You need like you need like guns to shoot the dive characters, you can't just outheal it. Like if you try to p if you try to patty cake the venom team up plus a DD, pl you know you just die. Like it's impossible.

Coach Mills (01:02:14.25)
Yeah, we'll w

Coach Mills (01:02:33.204)
Yeah. Yeah. What what what do you think is the strongest role now then? What'd you say tank?

P_tato (01:02:37.415)
Let's tank. I think dive tank is the best role in the game, and then dive DPS after that.

CaptainCoach (01:02:43.813)
I actually do kind of agree watching your games today, Mills. You were actually just like running the lobby. I think Venom.

Coach Mills (01:02:47.03)
Yeah, Venom well they let Venom Venom through the band phase. You can't let Venom through the fucking band phase. Like if you don't have a good Venom player, you're just gonna lose.

CaptainCoach (01:02:53.753)
Groot with the bubble is, Groot with the bubble is that, that is, he did not need that. He did not need that. Yeah. That's, that's, I'd be like an ultimate in other games. Like that bubble alone or the, yeah.

mike (01:02:55.98)
yeah.

Donatello (01:02:59.066)
Yeah. I agree.

Coach Mills (01:02:59.4)
that'd be like a hole I I d w what what what do you think, Donnie? What do you what are your thoughts on on on those two to you wait you didn't respond to the DPS has the high you highest solo carry potential across ranks. No they do.

P_tato (01:03:01.127)
I give him a name more bubble. Shit's fire.

Donatello (01:03:06.746)
Yeah, literally.

P_tato (01:03:17.585)
Well I I would just I would say yes they do. Because you can just go you can go hella and hit every shot. You know what I mean? You could just do that. Theoretically. Right, yeah, like

Coach Mills (01:03:24.638)
Right. Uncontested, right. I gotcha, yeah. But it's not really how it plays you're saying it's not really how it plays out, right? Like in like balance lobbies. Right.

CaptainCoach (01:03:24.995)
Yeah.

mike (01:03:25.389)
Yeah.

Donatello (01:03:28.944)
Well I agree with

P_tato (01:03:32.977)
No, but I've seen it. Like I've I've I've been in games and you go against XYZ pro hit scan player or even me, sometimes I just win games doing this, you just walk around the map on hit scan and kill everybody. Or like you you go watch like a Damar YouTube video and he just doesn't get looked at the whole game and he kills everybody. Like you can't do that in the other roles.

Coach Mills (01:03:48.086)
Right, okay. That makes sense. Makes sense, yeah.

Donatello (01:03:52.665)
I would agree with Taito, but like if you wanna look like stat wise and look at the leaderboard, well, to me it's like always support players that are like on top of the ranked leaderboard. Maybe but maybe besides like now in this season, I haven't been like looking at the leaderboard like too closely. But like the past eight point five seasons, whenever you opened up the leaderboard, it's like

I know they're pros and they're the best, like Cooper and Saiper are always up there. Like if they decide they want to hit rank one, they can hit rank one like the next day. Like there's no going back. And I know they're often duo cued and everything, but it did seem like they they just carry the games there. And like they will always MVP. I know MVP doesn't mean a lot and it's because of the character you play mostly. But like still, I feel like if these guys lock in, they will carry the game for you on support. Like I

mike (01:04:17.528)
It's

Donatello (01:04:40.602)
I don't I don't play support, so I don't know like what's going on back there like that much. I mean I know, but like you know, like I feel like these guys just do.

Coach Mills (01:04:46.134)
I I expected you to be a little different. Not in a bad way. Like it you can but yeah, because we had Suppress on. I don't know if y'all know who Suppress is. we had him, but he he gave no he gives no fucks about anything that goes on outside of like what he does in the game. But I love it. Like he's very focused on like

CaptainCoach (01:04:55.877)
I could, same, actually the same.

mike (01:05:03.791)
Yeah, I'm not surprised, bro. I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised.

Donatello (01:05:03.812)
Yes.

P_tato (01:05:05.351)
Bro, I love that fucking guy, bro.

CaptainCoach (01:05:05.891)
Bro, I love Sobre-

Donatello (01:05:13.56)
Yeah, he's funny.

Coach Mills (01:05:14.154)
This is what I can do to farm. I don't give a fu interactions, I don't care. Like it doesn't matter.

P_tato (01:05:17.779)
Bro that that video of him on Glintar, like zipping in and killing everyone with a shotgun is like a top three Marvel clip of all time. You wanna ban my Cyclops? And he just goes in and kills everybody. Actually, I if you've seen that video, you know it's actually the f mo the best video of our rivals video of all time.

mike (01:05:18.575)
Ha ha.

mike (01:05:22.386)
yeah.

Donatello (01:05:23.541)
Yeah, it that is insane.

mike (01:05:27.097)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:05:29.01)
That's actually yeah, it's actually fake. It's like that's like that's actually sick. Okay, Mikey Mikey, what's your thoughts? And I'm gonna get you death after that. What do you what are your thoughts on that take? Strong what do you think is the strongest role and the and the highest carry potential role?

Death and Gaming (01:05:31.081)
Yeah, that's actually insane.

CaptainCoach (01:05:36.549)
Okay, so.

mike (01:05:40.112)
Strongest role, I completely agree with Tato. I think it's dive tank. I mean just like Perma went on that for some reason, like Venom, Cap. Angie's broken this season too. Ang I don't know if you guys been playing against Angela, but she's been running every lobby I put. Yes.

Donatello (01:05:52.816)
Yes.

Yes, the clone thing is insane. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

P_tato (01:05:56.966)
Every every clone shit is just two OP. They gotta get rid of it all.

Coach Mills (01:05:59.479)
Do do y'all think it's good that dive tank is the hardest carry, strongest role, or do you think that's unhealthy for the game? Cause they like I think in a lot of ways like dive tanks being good keep supports in check. Like I don't know if y'all agree with that sentiment, but like it in a world where dive tanks aren't good, then supports are probably way stronger.

mike (01:06:01.423)
Yeah, and then it goes dive DPS, like yeah.

mike (01:06:11.631)
I think it

mike (01:06:17.377)
It does. Yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:06:18.789)
It also gives brawl an avenue to carry games. Because I think that's how I've been winning a lot of my games. I've been doing pretty well this season. Just like, OK, they go Venom. I just go Thing and just like brainlessly sit on supports and just check them off of it. And it's like super brainless and easy. But if you want to climb, you got to play the rock, paper, scissors a little bit. So I've been absolutely destroying on Thing. when I go against Venoms, it's

It's not in Hulk too, like it's good into him. So there is like a bit of like system of like, I do think there's always going to be a best comp, you know, where it's just like, it loses to the least amount of things. But yeah, I agree with what you guys have been saying with where there's like enough diversity and like, yeah, dive has that solo carry potential. But I, truthfully, I don't think dive is the best comp personally. I think triple healer is, and then you run like an Emma Groot or something to counter potential triple. And that's like the most.

mike (01:06:57.017)
Yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:07:15.461)
Maybe maybe not in like the highest levels, but it keeps the games close like every game And I think that's really important in a ranked environment personally, but

mike (01:07:19.299)
Yeah.

Donatello (01:07:20.006)
Yeah.

mike (01:07:23.107)
Yeah, and r yeah, I agree with and ranked and ranked definitely, I think. Triple support. It's just like auto good.

P_tato (01:07:23.634)
Yeah, I agree.

CaptainCoach (01:07:26.393)
Yeah, so to me, like the best tanks, yeah, dive is really good, but Groot's still gonna like more times than not carry a game harder. Cause my answer is also tank, believe it or not. Like I actually think support is a little worse. Yeah, yeah. I just don't play all of them.

mike (01:07:34.361)
Yeah.

P_tato (01:07:39.146)
yeah, like every tank is good. There's not like a single bad tank in the game right now.

mike (01:07:42.117)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:07:43.4)
Wha wha what do you what do you think, Death?

Death and Gaming (01:07:47.111)
okay. I'm I'm I think I think DPS has always been the strongest carry role. Like without a doubt. And I'll I'll like 'cause what what wins you games is whether or not you secure kills. And DPS are the best at doing that. And the best way to also, you know, stop your team from like losing games is to deny kills as well, which you can do through damage as well. But also

Coach Mills (01:07:48.32)
What do you think is the strongest scary role? And yeah.

Death and Gaming (01:08:13.08)
By not dying. What's the what's the role most likely to get kills? DPS. What's the role also most likely to die? DPS. So if you're good at getting kills and not dying, you can have your games be seven minutes long. But most players, you know, my big frustration with a lot of DPS players are like, look at this game. I have 30 finals. It's like, yeah, 30 finals isn't a good game. You played a 35 minute game. Like you can get a game under 10 minutes. And to me, that's a good game. If I had a game with eight finals in seven minutes, great.

mike (01:08:25.593)
Yeah.

Death and Gaming (01:08:41.442)
But like the reason why supports, in my opinion, are always like the higher rank is because there's not that many great support players. Like there's a few, and that's the reason why. Like, if you have a team where you have support players on one team and you have fill supports on the other team, the fill supports are probably going to lose. And that's a big reason why, like, when I climbed to Eternity last season with a hundred percent win rate on support, there was nobody playing support. I was stuck filling eight out of my 10 games.

And when I go up against someone who's filling on the role, it's the same as if you guys went up against Phil DPS. You're gonna completely destroy them. They don't know what to do in those like 1v1 scenarios. So it's like, exactly. When you go, whenever you go up against Phil on the other role of any kind, you know you're gonna diff them hardcore. So like when I'm going up with with supports that, like, yeah, there's a few exceptions, like Saipe for sure, but the majority of people playing that role, to me, in my opinion, from what I've seen, are filling on the role or they don't.

CaptainCoach (01:09:17.646)
dude, I love going against filled tanks. I love it.

mike (01:09:18.585)
Yeah.

Death and Gaming (01:09:38.466)
They think it's not worth their time to get good at. And most of them, like, I've seen DPS players who would rather lose a game than fill support. So it's like Yeah. Like so

mike (01:09:45.615)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:09:46.49)
That's day that's that's these three motherfuckers

P_tato (01:09:47.367)
That's me. Me. That's me. I'm not tryna that.

mike (01:09:48.557)
That's us, bro. That's us, bro. That is us. That is us.

Donatello (01:09:48.6)
Yeah, that is that is me. That is us.

CaptainCoach (01:09:50.917)
I respect that. Honestly, I respect that. The amount of...

Death and Gaming (01:09:54.755)
Legitimately, legitimately. So it's like I I get in these positions where I'm like, I wanna play DPS and I see three install DPS and two tanks.

Coach Mills (01:10:02.378)
Hey, it ch chat average chatter, these three, like you can do that. You could you can embrace the Tato and the Tello and the Mikey mental, but you gotta be fucking good. You gotta lock the roll and win the fucking game. Exactly. You can't you can't do that and then go fucking ten and ten on Punisher. Like that's not what we're talk that's not what we're talking about here. You don't have a You don't have a like a you don't have an ego, you're just delusional if you're doing that shit.

CaptainCoach (01:10:10.238)
Let... I-I'm-I-

P_tato (01:10:12.221)
Yeah, if you can if you can back it up, then that's fair, but

mike (01:10:19.107)
Yeah.

Death and Gaming (01:10:19.266)
Yeah. Yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:10:19.397)
When this podcast drops, I'm taking a day off, bro.

mike (01:10:25.078)
Ha ha ha.

Death and Gaming (01:10:25.806)
Yeah. But the problem is that most DPS players have the ego of Tato, but the skills of your average player. So it doesn't balance out where I'm like, I'm stuck playing support in a lot of these situations where I know I'd be better on DPS than them. And it becomes frustrating because of the fact that, like, even if I fill and I flex to support, if I carry and I win as support, I'm gonna get no credit because I climbed on support. But, you know, if I

Donatello (01:10:25.945)
Death and Gaming (01:10:53.814)
If I insta lock DPS, I'm gonna lose because either the other person's gonna play DPS. We have no supports, or they're gonna do what I call a protest pick where they're like, I'm gonna lock Adam or I'm gonna lock Jeff and I'm gonna die in every alt and that's okay.

P_tato (01:11:04.775)
That's me. That's me. If I feel I'm on Adam and I tell them that.

mike (01:11:06.083)
That's us bro. That's us, that's us, that's us, that's us bro.

Coach Mills (01:11:06.102)
That needs to be a sub sound, bro. That needs to be a sub sound. wait, that well well no, I was this was a perfect opportunity to pivot. I wanted to I wanted to put a question out by okay. Okay.

CaptainCoach (01:11:08.101)
All right

Death and Gaming (01:11:09.059)
See?

CaptainCoach (01:11:12.099)
Mills, you said you wanted to ask. I'll go next. I'll go next.

CaptainCoach (01:11:18.275)
No, no, no, no pivot. I got, I got one something I want to ask here because you guys were on the subject here then. So you guys say ego versus skill level. How important as you, cause we have four DPS players on here. Does your ego, you know, your willingness to swap versus like locking in on the thing you know you can carry on versus like swapping, like how much does like your skill level match your ego matter when it comes to like pushing serious rank is my question because

Like for instance me, I feel like in a lot of games I'm just like, this guy could just go triple healer and this would be an easy win. Cause I'm diffing their tanks, our supports are like have a general idea, they just need help. But like DPS players will so often be like, nah I'm so god like why? I'm just like dude, if you just go on ultra and put two drones on us, we're probably just gonna win like cause everyone else is just stomping. So how much does like ego matching your skill level kind of matter? Like that mentality, you know what I mean? Like kind of having that dog in you a little bit. Like is that a thing that you guys...

Is it like?

mike (01:12:18.071)
I think like I think like if you genuinely want to win the game and you know triple support or just going like a certain character to help is gonna help you win. I think all good DPS players are gonna lose the ego and like fail like Ultron or Adam. Cause sometimes it's just it's just necessary. Bro, it's just like necessary. Like like if potato, Taydo, if you're genuinely trying to win, if you're trying to win.

Coach Mills (01:12:34.198)
Not not Tato. Not not Tato. Well 'cause 'cause you

CaptainCoach (01:12:34.795)
He's laughing, I'm glad I asked this question. I'm so glad I asked this question.

P_tato (01:12:38.405)
Okay, look. He's right. He's right, but I have like he's right, he's right, but I have like a Batman no kill rule. I'm not going Mantis. I'm not going Ultron View. I if if we're gonna lose the game, I'm staying DPS, 'cause it's just like it's like corny and it's like a it's like a it's like a crutch. You know what I mean? Like you're losing the Bro, no no. I there's nothing the number one thing that makes me mad in ranked is when I'm dominating an enemy team, like straight spawn holding them, and then magically

mike (01:12:53.571)
Ha ha.

Coach Mills (01:12:54.004)
He ha this man has honor. He has fucking honor. No triple support. There we go.

P_tato (01:13:05.191)
The guy who's 0 9 on Punisher, he goes Mantis. Whoa, wait, they wanna fight? Wait, they won two fights? Wait, they won three Like, and it's magically they're winning the game. So I don't do I don't do that shit. I don't do that shit. It makes me so

mike (01:13:10.606)
Yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:13:11.269)
yeah. It happens to everyone.

Donatello (01:13:11.44)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree with that.

Coach Mills (01:13:12.222)
Yeah. Yeah, and he and he's and he's not even carrying the game anymore, he's just not throwing anymore. Like they did they did they

mike (01:13:15.577)
Yeah like Yeah, yeah.

P_tato (01:13:19.345)
Yeah, you just sit there and press E and you get the free value for triple support and i so I don't do that 'cause I think it I think it ruins the game, but you should do 'cause like it'll win you the game. Like you should do it. He's right, but I just don't do it 'cause I think it's corny. Like

Donatello (01:13:19.97)
Exactly, exactly.

mike (01:13:26.657)
Yeah, yeah. I was like that's yeah. Like if you're truly trying to win the game you you go triple support but like yes, yes, but like if you're just playing ranked, play whatever you want.

CaptainCoach (01:13:27.833)
Okay, you should do it. Okay.

Coach Mills (01:13:31.674)
Right.

P_tato (01:13:33.969)
Yeah, you should drop your ego if you're trying to win.

CaptainCoach (01:13:36.813)
Alright, Donny?

Death and Gaming (01:13:37.292)
Here he here's Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:13:37.706)
The the I I think I think it's like a or or yeah, go go ahead, Donnie. What do you think?

Donatello (01:13:42.48)
No, I mean I agree with Dato. Like sometimes like my chat like I'll be running the game down low key and then my chat's just like, yo, go Ultron. I'm like, fuck no, like I'm good. What

mike (01:13:46.55)
Ha ha ha.

Coach Mills (01:13:47.895)
Well it it it's it's that it's a slippery slope though, I think, with like being willing to fill and willing to flex. 'Cause like as an example, like Death really started as like a DPS player mainly. And then like over time he's like more of a pure flex because he does fill. But I think like I'm sure y'all run into situations that if you just the second like if you fill too much too often

P_tato (01:13:50.707)
See Donnie gets it bro, he gets it, he gets it.

Coach Mills (01:14:15.456)
Then you're never playing DPS. Like you're never gonna like you just have to sometimes just ego and lock it in and be like, I can make a difference here. I know I can, you know.

P_tato (01:14:17.894)
Well I am

Donatello (01:14:22.48)
Yes.

P_tato (01:14:23.515)
I I tell my chat that they shouldn't flex. I feel like flexing makes you a worse player. 'Cause then you're like splitting all your time between a bunch of stuff. And you should just stay in one thing.

mike (01:14:30.911)
I don't know, I feel like feeling feel feeling is good.

CaptainCoach (01:14:32.453)
This is kind of a hot take

Coach Mills (01:14:32.842)
Well, that's it. That's very interesting ca that's interesting 'cause Mikey like the flex god. He's played he's played everything.

P_tato (01:14:36.231)
Why was that a hot take? Okay, but he if if I'm in a game with Mike, I want him to play DPS. Yeah, I mean.

mike (01:14:38.649)
Yeah.

mike (01:14:43.299)
Yeah, it's just like sometimes like you're like you're just gonna be better like let's say there's a random Joe like on Bucky and you know triple support is gonna win, I would not go triple support because I know I'm better than this than this guy on DPS. Like you know what I mean? Like

Coach Mills (01:14:43.582)
Right.

Donatello (01:14:44.251)
Yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:14:58.603)
Alright, Death will get to you. Okay, but like, let's say this is our sixth stack right here. Who's healing, who's damaging, who's tanking? I think the tank is pretty obvious, but... One rocket, really? So, so, we put Death the one...

Donatello (01:14:58.915)
Also that yeah.

Coach Mills (01:15:06.909)
Ha ha ha.

P_tato (01:15:07.485)
No, we're doing one rocket. We're doing we're doing one rocket. We do one rocket. The random the

Death and Gaming (01:15:08.29)
You motherfucker.

Coach Mills (01:15:11.686)
Wha wa wa It's it's that death is the water rocket

Death and Gaming (01:15:12.408)
Son of a bitch.

P_tato (01:15:15.951)
Someone's on Rocket. Someone's on Rocket. We do Solo Hulk. Cy We do Solo Hulk. I I'm actually we're actually winning MRC with the Steam Comp. We're doing solo rocket, fastball, Psy Torch, and then any other dive DPS in the game. We win on MRC. Well we lost, but yeah, I mean we can we can fast protect we can fast protect Rocket. How 'bout that?

Death and Gaming (01:15:16.174)
That's what I mean.

mike (01:15:19.353)
Ha ha ha.

CaptainCoach (01:15:20.375)
So I'm down bro, I'm down. I can do that shit.

Coach Mills (01:15:21.78)
I know I no I gotta be on Venom. You gotta let me Venom.

Donatello (01:15:29.228)
Mm.

CaptainCoach (01:15:30.294)
Yoooo

Coach Mills (01:15:30.386)
Yeah.

mike (01:15:32.665)
But like what if they ban Rocky, bro? Like what what do we do then?

Coach Mills (01:15:35.912)
Holy shit. No

CaptainCoach (01:15:36.246)
Hahaha

All right, that's, that's what do you think about.

Death and Gaming (01:15:42.587)
I I think hero shooters are a lot of times about, you know, knowing what tool you need to solve your problem. And part of it is like what the characters are good at, but also understanding the strategy of how to play them, right? Picking Namor doesn't automatically counter dive. You still have to target it gives you an advantage against certain dive characters. But if you play Namor and you walk to the enemy back line and you ignore the dive characters, then picking no more it doesn't solve your problem. So, you know, to me, like I've told people because like as I've learned multiple characters, you know.

Back in season one, when everyone's saying it was cap was was terrible, I was like, I had like a 90% win rate on him up to like Celestial One at the time. And people were saying he was garbage. I'm like, no, you just sit on the convoy and you never leave. Like, you know, learning heroes over time, I've learned different strategies where like now if I'm playing tank on offense, I go rogue because she's better at securing kills. And then on defense, I go cap because that's better at stalling. Like knowing, you know, what to pick and knowing you have that tool in your toolkit helps because there's times where suddenly

Somebody switches, they go strange. Now you're down to support. And you you have to fill in and be like, okay, what do I pick in this situation to help my team out? It's like, my tank is going out there. I'm on tank as well. But one of my support, my support spot just died. I'm gonna switch to Rocket real quick, drop my res beacon so that way he can go out there, touch the point, die, come right back, and then touch install again. Like knowing what hero to switch to, even when you're best at something, is going to help you win games. Like, and there's been plenty of times.

Donatello (01:16:44.293)
Mm.

CaptainCoach (01:17:07.789)
No ego detected.

Death and Gaming (01:17:09.9)
Yeah, there's times where I'm like, I tell my teammates, I'm like, listen, I know I've been playing DPS all game, but our offense wasn't great. On defense, trust me here, run triple tank and we'll run solo DPS. And we're just going to stall this convoy out. And we'll end up winning because holding the con holding the the convoy down for four minutes and not getting any kills is a valid strategy. And knowing what you need to do in that situation matters, especially in a game where everyone can flex around to anything. But yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:17:34.662)
Yeah. I think like low key, secretly the staying power this game has is that you guys have all given somewhat different answers. Just like your personality type can actually, you can inject it into a game and have it affect it. And I think that's like such a cool part. Like, like death is like, okay, I'm going to swap to what we need all about team comp. Potato's like, no, I'm just going to like, I'm locking my shit. I'm going to carry this bitch.

mike (01:17:56.651)
P_tato (01:17:57.223)
Hell no.

Coach Mills (01:17:57.237)
Well,

CaptainCoach (01:17:59.27)
You know, maybe Mike and Donnie are somewhere in between. I do think there's a lot of that level of, trust me, said it when he was on, you have to have a certain level of ability to communicate and get people to like you to kind of win a game. And I think that, to me, that's where all the best clips are. It's a lot of yeah, Mills.

Donatello (01:17:59.365)
Ha ha.

Coach Mills (01:18:12.554)
So

Coach Mills (01:18:22.366)
Well well, I wanted to specifically kind of r re ask Potato 'cause I know you said 'cause you you said you you tell people not to fill, right? And I I I actually tell people similar things 'cause it's like you gotta get better at playing a character in a suboptimal situation to get better at that character, right? Like it like over time, like learning. But one of the things that's interesting about like pro play is like they really they really admire or they really look for players that can be flexible, like as flexible as possible. Maybe sometimes cross rolls, but sometimes like a super deep hero pool. So like

How do you think about that? Do you think that just like doesn't matter 'cause you're just a rank grinder or like I don't even know if you have pro ambitions or whatever. Like what do you what do you think about that hope?

Donatello (01:18:55.876)
Mm.

P_tato (01:18:56.787)
Yeah, I can No, I I've played competitively before and I I can tell you the only reason that in in Pro Scene you have to be able to play everything is because Marvel Rivals is a game of bands. So like

you have to be able to play everything at any given t like you can't afford to be handless on anything because what if they just ban out what you play? Or like what if they've banned everything they know they think you've practiced, right? So you so when it comes to like the pro scene, you have to be able to play everything. You can't afford it. like for example, I think the most famous example is Hundred Thieves is like a team that gets clowned a lot because people don't think they have a hero pool, right? So like a lot of teams just like ban what they play and then they're handless and they can't play the game. Allegedly.

So, but the reason that I, you know, I give this answer to my people who who ask me, hey Tato, how do I get better at the game? They ask this this is my chat. I tell them being a flex player isn't a real thing. Like if you're just playing ranked, you should just play one role and get good at it, and then continue to grind at that. Like if you're the kind of guy that loads into a ranked game and you just fail, you just play whatever.

Coach Mills (01:19:38.613)
Right.

mike (01:19:39.106)
Allegedly.

P_tato (01:20:00.146)
Like you're you're not gonna improve, you're not gonna get better because you're splitting your time between a million different things. You should pick one role and you should just get good at that. I d I don't I don't believe in in armor flex player. Well bro, that's that's unserious. Like what are we talking about? You should just play one role and get good at it. I don't understand I I don't understand that mindset.

mike (01:20:15.055)
Yeah, but like but like what happens when you get four people that are trying to get good at D P S or like D P S players, like what do you do?

Coach Mills (01:20:19.899)
Ha ha ha.

P_tato (01:20:20.275)
Well yeah, that's why we should put hey hey hey hey hey hey I have the answer. I have the answer. That's why we should put role queue in the game.

CaptainCoach (01:20:20.452)
hahahahah

Death and Gaming (01:20:21.122)
Which is every fucking game.

Coach Mills (01:20:25.286)
wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait that that's what I was gonna say I was gonna the so the statement was roll Q would dramatically improve the health of competitive Marvel rivals. That Okay, okay, okay, okay lay it out. so I I think you're you're standing alone here, so let's la let's hear all the arguments. Captain Coach. Okay, so so we got two.

mike (01:20:25.601)
No no no ew ew ew ew no

Donatello (01:20:25.745)
No, no, no, no.

P_tato (01:20:33.775)
One hundred percent. One hundred percent. I can give you the every argument, it's undefeatable. I can tell you ever I can give you every argument.

Donatello (01:20:33.863)
Fuck no, fuck no, fuck no.

mike (01:20:34.528)
No, no.

Donatello (01:20:38.683)
No no no no no.

CaptainCoach (01:20:40.293)
I'm ready.

Death and Gaming (01:20:41.602)
Segue.

CaptainCoach (01:20:44.165)
No, no, I want roll cue. I want roll cue, a soft roll cue.

P_tato (01:20:44.943)
Yeah, I I know it's so unpopular. It's so unpopular. See, the captain and the coach knows, bro. The captain and the coach knows.

CaptainCoach (01:20:51.205)
Soft, soft role queue. Like, like legal legends. Like legal legends did.

Coach Mills (01:20:52.086)
Okay, well so so that's a little bit different. Okay, so what what what's what's your arguments what's your arguments for Tato? What's I wanna hear I wanna hear yours first.

P_tato (01:20:53.191)
Yeah, I'd be down for any kind.

Donatello (01:20:56.469)
yeah, I get what you mean.

mike (01:20:56.835)
Bro, how long how long

P_tato (01:21:00.691)
Okay my my argument for it is exactly what Mike just said. Listen, I've had games where I'm about to hit top ten and then you load into the the game and we don't have supports. We don't have tanks. So we just lose. How is that fun? How is that competitive? It doesn't make any sense. So you give the solution. What's the solution? Well before we get in the game, let's ensure that there's enough people who play each roll on a team. I I don't understand the argument against it. There's one negative. It's Q time. Alright. Q time. I can understand that.

Coach Mills (01:21:25.31)
Well says Yeah.

Well, th there's a c there's a couple there's a couple of arguments against them. Let me give you the strongest arguments against them, and I want to hear your point on each one. So the first one is it is it hinders flexibility and creativity in compositions. Like you said, Gator Comp, one rocket, five tanks. We've seen triple DPS work. We've seen bunker work three three two one two or two one three. So you d the argument is that you basically just cut out all that creativity and you just say, you have to play this, specifically this.

CaptainCoach (01:21:29.829)
I don't even

mike (01:21:29.849)
Ten hour D PSQ time, bro.

P_tato (01:21:35.729)
Okay.

P_tato (01:21:48.424)
Yes.

Coach Mills (01:21:57.569)
Two, two, two, that's all you get to play. You don't get to What

CaptainCoach (01:21:59.312)
SoftrollCube, soft.

P_tato (01:21:59.496)
Well, there's two Yeah, exactly. Well th there's two there's two avenues you can go down, right? There's the hard lock, which I I I think w the vast majority of people would be against, because like that that'll k that'll kill your game because like how does the team up system even work in that case, right? So

CaptainCoach (01:22:10.095)
That will kill your game. That will kill your game.

and then the balance will just get progressively worse over time. It will never get better.

Coach Mills (01:22:18.388)
Yeah, I mean that's what Overwatch did is the hard lock. The Overwatch did the hard lock and yeah.

P_tato (01:22:18.577)
Yeah, I agree, I agree, I agree. I think the hard luck is bad for rivals. I think I think what I champion for is is the you just queue up for your role and then from there you can anything happens, right? Like you can do anything.

Donatello (01:22:21.692)
What's the soft one then?

CaptainCoach (01:22:22.959)
Terrible.

Coach Mills (01:22:33.574)
Mm. So you're just telling people, Hey, this is what I want to play, but I'm willing to kind of move around the edges.

P_tato (01:22:36.827)
Yeah, because the the situation it's not it's not that serious. But that situation where you load in and you don't get anything any any place for a role is just like brain dead. Like it just shouldn't be a thing.

Coach Mills (01:22:40.575)
Whoa.

Coach Mills (01:22:45.226)
Wha what what's what's to stop the bitch ass DPS player that has the eighteen minute queue from queuing tank and and getting a game in thirty seconds and then swapping the DPS? You know what I'm saying? Like what what

P_tato (01:22:51.803)
Yeah, that that could be a problem. Yeah, that could be a problem. Yeah, that could be a problem. That could be a problem, but but the fact that you fix that a a larger issue, that's a smaller issue compared to the issue that you're fixing, which would be getting into a game and having no one for a role.

mike (01:22:51.919)
Yeah, I was just about to take that man.

Donatello (01:22:53.904)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

CaptainCoach (01:23:07.269)
I totally agree. I totally agree.

P_tato (01:23:10.195)
So yeah, that could be an issue, but but that issue is nothing compared to the issue that I'm d identifying. You know what I'm saying? No. No. Yes.

Coach Mills (01:23:13.674)
What would you have separate ranks for each role?

CaptainCoach (01:23:18.211)
No, no, no, no, no, no. That would get too many people to quit.

Coach Mills (01:23:18.922)
No, you would you had of one rank? Cause they they they did it like it's so cause the way that Overwatch implemented it was roll lock and everyone got a separate rank in each roll.

Donatello (01:23:26.886)
No, the separate rank is bad, I think.

P_tato (01:23:28.529)
Yeah, I agree, yeah. The separate rank. No, no, no. Donatello, no, no, no, no.

CaptainCoach (01:23:30.853)
That'll make queues too long.

Coach Mills (01:23:32.15)
But it was it was kind of fun because you could like like you know, you could climb every rank every season and it was like a whole new Like, you know, like after I got Taver Honor on tank I could be like, let's fuck around on support, my support isn't in plaid, I can like try to climb and get better, you know, whatever.

mike (01:23:34.679)
Yeah.

P_tato (01:23:41.523)
Yeah, but

P_tato (01:23:47.431)
I think that just lets people like smurf on their main account. You know what I mean? Like

mike (01:23:51.033)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Coach Mills (01:23:51.075)
Well, yeah. I mean it it does remember I I understand. I mean, I don't like the system. I'm just that's just how it was. But

CaptainCoach (01:23:57.15)
Before you go to the next reason why it's a bad argument against it, I also think like if you'd implement a soft roll lock system effectively, and I'm curious here, your guys' takes on it, it'd probably make the queue times less, because more people would be playing the game, because the game quality would go up. That's just kind of my hot take, I guess. I think like the queue times wouldn't even be an issue if you did it right.

Coach Mills (01:24:14.998)
I've heard I heard all these arguments. These were all the arguments that convinced Blizzard. No, no, no. These were the arguments that were But but but that that's the thing is when I was playing Overwatch back I I waited fucking in a in like a low GM lobby. I just want to fucking play Genji. I'm s I'm sitting sitting 26 minutes in a queue. 26 minutes in a queue we play a game and I have like

CaptainCoach (01:24:20.633)
Dude, potato plays at like 5 a.m. If Heath doesn't think the Q times will be an issue, no one will. No one will, bro.

Death and Gaming (01:24:21.114)
VM Bills have been through this.

mike (01:24:25.047)
P_tato (01:24:25.875)
True true

mike (01:24:36.971)
Hehehe

P_tato (01:24:37.811)
Huh.

CaptainCoach (01:24:38.979)
Ha

Game quality is... That's what you need.

Coach Mills (01:24:41.65)
I I have I have like a fucking handless like Moira flanking in my game and we lose the game and I have to wait another twenty six minutes. Like what like like it da like it's very hard. Like I d I don't I love it when I can press Q button and I get a game like fast. Like I don't know, like Yeah, yeah, but it it's it's fun when it's like an anomaly, but when it's every game, like you start losing your shit, I feel like. Like maybe maybe that wouldn't happen as much. Like there are definitely like more fun to play tanks in this game than there is has ever been in Overwatch in my opinion.

P_tato (01:24:48.317)
Mm-hmm.

CaptainCoach (01:24:55.237)
Talk to your chat, you did it today in your 18 minute queue.

mike (01:25:02.767)
Yeah, yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:25:03.109)
Alright, we need some more, we need some more opinions.

Donatello (01:25:03.517)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:25:11.086)
so maybe that cue time problem wouldn't be a thing. Like another problem in in Overwatch is is tanks would often they would often cue you down. Like you could be like a like a really high masters player or grandmasters player and they'd put you in a diamond lobby because they needed they needed people to like fill the lobbies. So like they like imagine being like an attorney player and they throw you into like a like a GM1 lobby because they need like a tank. Yeah, yeah, it shouldn't ever happen. Like it really shouldn't.

mike (01:25:25.42)
yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:25:25.613)
Yeah. Yeah, this is terrible.

Donatello (01:25:26.096)
yeah.

Yeah, nah.

P_tato (01:25:29.703)
That happened that happens in rivals. That happens in rivals. I I was I I posted on Twitter I was one of all two hundred and thirty Elo and I got into a game with a GM one on my team. So if I won that game and I got plus nine plus nine but if I lost it's minus thirty. So what w come on, bruh. What are we doing? Yeah yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:25:30.159)
That's...

Coach Mills (01:25:39.318)
Holy shit Holy fuck. That's crazy. Okay, so soft Rolock. Mikey and Donatello, y'all were against Rolock. Do you do you still think it's a bad idea or what what do you think?

mike (01:25:42.477)
wow.

Donatello (01:25:43.121)
Mm-hmm.

mike (01:25:47.203)
Yeah.

Death and Gaming (01:25:48.76)
That's a s that's a separate issue, but that is an issue.

mike (01:25:58.357)
You can go first, Donnie.

Donatello (01:25:58.663)
I'll let you go, man. Alright, alright. I think I think it's it would be terrible, to be honest. They could maybe implement it all the way to GM for the lower ELO casual, maybe have better quality games then. But I think like Celestial and Above, you should be able to like have an understanding of the game. Like sometimes I'll have like people filling, right? And like I'm I'm thankful for them filling so I can lock in DPS. But like

Then it's like they've never played the game. It's like they have no clue what's going on. Like they'll be they'll make like silly mistakes that you would flame your support for, but they'll do it. But they're like, Yeah, I'm filling. Yeah, fuck you. Like you've played the game like you play the game like eight hours a day, bro. Like you know they have like a a venom and D D D and you're gonna get dove and you have ult. So why are you not clicking it? I wasn't expecting I was getting dove. Like, bro, you do the same thing when you make you when you're on your main role and you play Venom, like

Coach Mills (01:26:29.12)
Right.

P_tato (01:26:31.153)
Right.

CaptainCoach (01:26:46.127)
Yeah.

Donatello (01:26:56.796)
You know how game works. You have a good fundamental understanding of the game. So even if you're filling, I get it. Like, let's say you're filling on on Invis, your mechanics on the character won't be as good and that's fine. But like your general understanding of the game, like your ults should be approximately the same as someone who'd main support. Like I'll get it, you'll probably panic most of the time because you're like you don't know really what like like the the time to kill will be.

But like at the same time you play the the characters that kills the support. So you should know like you should be able to figure it out. Like, yes, you'll be way less good than someone who made support, but not terrible also. So like maybe up to GM they should they could had it because there's there's much more players and the the the the games would become better, people would have a better understanding of the game. But then depending on the soft or or hard luck thingy, then it depends if you can play like the fun comps, I think.

Like some games, you know, three tanks sometimes it's good. Like that said, like to stall the card and everything. I think d offering different like playstyles is also like part of the game. And now we'd have another issue is with the team ups. I mean, I I can't think of all of them on the top of my head 'cause there's like a hundred and two new ones. But I'm pretty sure there's some team ups that advantageous like triple support or triple tank, triple DPS with like the spidey black cat for example, and then some other stuff. So I think

You can't really do that n anymore, at least.

CaptainCoach (01:28:24.773)
Real quick, wouldn't if you roll locked and had a higher chance to get your role up until GM and then you got above that rank, wouldn't that make the problem worse though? Because then now you'd have these people who if they have to swap it's like they have no experience playing another role.

Coach Mills (01:28:42.706)
Yeah, they they would be they would be truly handless. Yeah, that's like inf

Donatello (01:28:43.376)
Yeah, maybe. If you view it that way, then yeah, then maybe the counter to that would be like putting the separate rank on each like role. But then that's I I I kinda disagree with that. So I guess that's a good argument, yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:28:44.97)
It would make it, yeah.

mike (01:29:01.871)
I think Q is fine now how it is. Like I don't think like a lock on anything would be really that cool. I mean I get it. Sometimes you'll get like four DPS, but that's rivals. I mean you're gonna get like you're gonna get a blade OTP at one time, you're gonna get like a f like OTP of like a Scarlet Witch and that's just rivals. I mean like at the end of the day, I mean I I think the normal Q Qs we have is fine. I don't see any really problem with it.

Coach Mills (01:29:21.789)
That's

CaptainCoach (01:29:28.389)
This is the-

P_tato (01:29:28.421)
Okay, but like you you agree that there's a problem though, right? Like we can at least agree on that. That that's a bad thing.

Coach Mills (01:29:29.076)
So I wanna

Death and Gaming (01:29:30.209)
Okay.

Donatello (01:29:31.558)
Okay.

mike (01:29:33.944)
A problem of of like having too many DPS players. I mean s okay, tha I I I saw this thing, it was like that they try and queue with people that are playing supports, but some people might just have like a bad game the d game before and they've been on support for the past ten games and they just hop on like like I don't know, D PS for the first time. I mean like how do you even like

Coach Mills (01:29:34.496)
What it

P_tato (01:29:36.936)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:29:53.226)
H here's

P_tato (01:29:53.652)
Well like what I'm asking is like we can all agree. Like just like I'm not even leaving this anywhere, I'm just asking. We can all agree that if you load into a game and on your team is five DPS players, that's bad. Right guys?

mike (01:29:58.467)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Coach Mills (01:30:04.97)
Yeah, yeah, well I mean the the the point of that is that you now but you you you can play whatever you want to play. Like you don't have to play DPS just because you're a DPS player. Like I understand that that's kind of the mentality you have, but like like you can play anything. Like the g and like one of my one of my arguments is like a a point forward is that a lot of the reasons that games feel so diverse from game to game is because of this exact system where like people have to flex and fill and like make it work.

Death and Gaming (01:30:04.984)
Yeah. But

mike (01:30:07.583)
No

P_tato (01:30:08.657)
Wha what do you mean no?

mike (01:30:13.7)
Yeah.

P_tato (01:30:16.594)
Yeah, but

P_tato (01:30:21.171)
Well you can.

mike (01:30:21.39)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:30:32.266)
Like that's why sometimes you're being run down by triple tank and you're like, What the fuck is this? And sometimes you're playing like you're up against really untraditional things that you've never seen before. It's because like people have to go outside their comfort zone. If it's like two two two, you're gonna start seeing the same shit all the time. Like everything's gonna get solved really quickly. Like

CaptainCoach (01:30:42.041)
Yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:30:46.585)
Mills, we got to get like the DPS bros on with some of like the pros and have them duke it out. Cause this is like totally different than what they've been saying.

mike (01:30:47.047)
yeah.

P_tato (01:30:48.765)
What?

Coach Mills (01:30:53.552)
that's a and and and so let me let me just throw the other the last argument and then you can you can respond to both. So the last argument is that the soft lock system doesn't actually like one of the big reasons people want two two two, at least from what I heard, is that they want it to solve triple support and it wouldn't solve triple support. Like a soft lock system would just allow them to just swap to triple support. Like you could maybe reduce the amount of triple support that is being played, but like in high elo lobbies, like any any, you know, second DPS will. Also

Donatello (01:30:54.952)
Ha ha ha ha.

Coach Mills (01:31:22.71)
You're gonna probably feel it more when you have like your second support be like Adam or your second DPS be like fucking Scarlet Witch or Squirrel Girl or some bullshit. Like I mean I it might happen more, but anyways go.

Death and Gaming (01:31:32.556)
All of those would all of those would need to be changed. Like

Coach Mills (01:31:35.466)
But anyways, go go on. Wha what what do you think, Tato? I know I kinda blast you with a lot of

P_tato (01:31:39.836)
Well I I yeah, I used to think that hard two to two would be good for balancing. But r now I we don't even need that. I think the game the game state is good. right now is to where we don't need to change anything with matchmaking team like the balancing doesn't need that.

You know I mean, like anymore. It kinda I th I f used to tell people or I used to think that it used to, but now I think we're in a good spot. And I don't think i it'll ever get to a place where we'll need that again. so as far as like the balancing of the game is concerned, no, I don't think we need to change the matchmaking whatsoever. But the reason that I say that it's good is just for like people in ranked and the the quality of ranked games. Like all I care about is match quality. That's all I care about.

and I don't understand how anyone can care about anything else. Like when you're in a game, how that game goes, that's all I care about. And I think that a soft role queue, or however you want to say it, where you just queue up and you're as a role, and then you get into a game with other people who have queued as their role, if that happens, that will increase match quality tenfold and I don't think it'll spawn a bunch of problems. I really don't. And I I can't understand the arguments against it.

Coach Mills (01:32:43.126)
Well what what if what if Netties did it like behind the scenes where they just like looked at your what you pick, what you play, and they just like match it. But like what if they did it more so and said that they did it? Like they just tried to create two two two.

Death and Gaming (01:32:43.926)
I

CaptainCoach (01:32:49.975)
They already do, by the way. They already do.

P_tato (01:32:53.425)
I think they should just do like a a quick play. I think you should just put in the game like a little quick play mode of it. Just see what happens for two seasons, one season. we can go from there.

mike (01:33:00.579)
That's not a bad idea actually.

CaptainCoach (01:33:01.455)
That's actually a really, haven't heard that one. I really liked that.

P_tato (01:33:05.127)
Just put like a experimental mode of quick pla in it for quick play for I mean see what see happens.

Coach Mills (01:33:05.866)
I mean I I would I would be more than more than happy to to let them try it as long as they're willing to bring like reel it back if it doesn't work. 'Cause like Blizzard didn't d Blizzard was unwilling to wheel it back after like after it failed, like problems sprout up.

Death and Gaming (01:33:06.358)
CaptainCoach (01:33:09.871)
Great idea.

P_tato (01:33:17.137)
Yeah, yeah. If it's dog shit, then get rid of it.

Death and Gaming (01:33:24.462)
I mean, you're also gonna have I was gonna say I like you're also gonna have it like if you give players something but then you take it away later, some people might like it, some people might hate it. But the problem is like when you give gamers anything and then take it away, they get pissed off. So yeah no.

P_tato (01:33:24.467)
Well that's because sorry, sorry, you can speak, sorry.

mike (01:33:38.657)
So

CaptainCoach (01:33:40.035)
Well, they didn't care about that with Wanda players. Or sorry, Black Widow players, sorry. I fucked it up, damn it!

Death and Gaming (01:33:43.704)
Hmm.

P_tato (01:33:44.081)
Widow.

Coach Mills (01:33:45.047)
That's I like I I'm I w for your your idea of a soft lock potato, I would I would be down for them to try a soft lock. I think it would definitely be interesting to see if it I I'm very afraid of all of the problems that would come from it, but it's way different than a hard lock system, which is like what I'm mainly afraid of.

Death and Gaming (01:33:48.076)
Yeah. Therapist. But like

P_tato (01:33:52.103)
Too many drinks. Too many.

CaptainCoach (01:33:53.441)
Yeah, yeah you...

P_tato (01:34:07.899)
No, that would ruin the game. I've never from the start I've never said that. That would ruin the game. It would ruin the whole point of the game. The whole point of rivals is team ups. You can play you can play goats, spawn hole people, that's the whole point. You shouldn't remove that. That would be dumb. But like

Death and Gaming (01:34:21.322)
I yeah, I I still think that like like part of me is torn because part of me knows that like even I think even like a soft roll queue would be bad. But part of me is also so bitter and angry towards DPS players. I want to give them exactly what they want so that way the games get worse. Cause like I want you guys to have 38 minute cue times just so that way I can sit there and be like, you know what, fine, like you can have exactly what you want now. Cause to me, like I get into my games.

Coach Mills (01:34:40.852)
Coach Mills (01:34:46.192)
no.

Death and Gaming (01:34:49.09)
And I get four instalock DPS. They're like, we're gonna run this down because we would instead of learning to play the team game as a team, I'm just gonna run it down on my DPS to, you know, because I refuse to swap to support, which is supposedly it's the role that gets insulted the most, that gets called boosted. You get no credit for playing it, and then you get everyone else around you forcing you to fill for it. And it's just a miserable experience. Like the reason why the match quality is so bad is because of the fact that.

Coach Mills (01:35:03.712)
Yeah.

Death and Gaming (01:35:18.252)
The way the players act. Like it's a team game. Like you know, the best way to improve match quality if you have four DPS players on your team, learn the other fucking roles. Like learn tank, learn support. Like they're right there. There's so many fun heroes you can play, but it's like, no, I am above this. I am too good. Like, what? Like.

Coach Mills (01:35:34.004)
Well and it it's it's very funny how Tato's like there's so many fun tanks to play. We're not gonna run to the same Q time problems that Overwatch had, but they're not fun enough for me to play them. You can play them.

Death and Gaming (01:35:42.713)
Yeah. But I'm never gonna play tank. Support's the easiest role in the game, but I'm never gonna fucking play it. So I get into these games and like legitimately, I I'm telling you, I know that I'm a good support, but I can tell you in high ELO that when I get on teams with certain people and certain players and I see those names, I'm like, I'm not feeling support. I'm going fourth DPS for these people because I just don't like them and I'm not gonna give them my support. Like

P_tato (01:35:46.983)
Well Well Well yeah, 'cause it's boring.

mike (01:36:03.665)
huh.

P_tato (01:36:04.379)
Mm.

CaptainCoach (01:36:06.933)
One of my favorite things is watching Death in Gaming just trash the players of his own role. It's honestly pretty therapeutic.

Donatello (01:36:08.521)
Well dare you

P_tato (01:36:09.265)
That's fire, bro.

Coach Mills (01:36:12.998)
Ha ha ha.

Death and Gaming (01:36:14.06)
Yeah, like well, Captain Coach, remember the last time that we duoed and you had mentioned you're like you had said when I that when you play with me, you feel like you get more heals, right? And that was leg legitimately a true statement because I understand that in this game you are trading resources back and forth. If I require all of the resources, that means they don't go to you. If I need your bubble, if I take if I

mike (01:36:17.709)
Yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:36:26.222)
for sure.

CaptainCoach (01:36:37.263)
You're the person who knows what they're doing, bro. That's all I ask. That's all I ask.

Coach Mills (01:36:39.167)
Yeah.

Death and Gaming (01:36:41.408)
If I need a bubble from you to save me, that means you can't save the supports. So what do I do? I hide in angles that I can't be seen. I let you go in first and pull out the attention and resources. So that way you get the heals. You require all that. And the end of the game, my damage blocked is like 4,000 and yours is like 52,000. Like there are ways to work together in this game as a team. And even the other roles, like, like I have been trying to show people for

seasons that like as much as people talk shit about Rocket, there are so many ways to use his om his mobility and damage for it to be fun and fun to play him. But people still just say like, all you do is sit back and hold right click. But like I will wall dash into the enemy back line to drop an alt to go get kills. And like there's ways to make every role fun. And so when people are just like, Yeah, just play one role and one role only, I'm like, okay, yeah. And when you go to the ice cream shop, just only buy just only get your one flavor every time. Like

Coach Mills (01:37:34.892)
Death and Gaming (01:37:37.26)
You don't want to try anything else, really? Like the whole point of games is to have fun.

P_tato (01:37:39.869)
low-key I do do that. Low key. Low key I do do that. Like, I get the same ice cream every time, bro. I can't lie to you.

CaptainCoach (01:37:40.153)
That... I-I-I-I did share... That...

Coach Mills (01:37:41.456)
Hahaha

Donatello (01:37:42.022)
Yeah, low gay.

mike (01:37:44.355)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Mills (01:37:47.062)
you like you like what you like, you know?

CaptainCoach (01:37:48.262)
Death, playing with Death, Death is such a great teammate. Like he makes the game, like I feel like having a player like Death on your team, like to Potato's point, will kind of cut out the bottom like 20, 30 % where you just auto lose because whatever, like the matchmaking fucked you. So I think, like I really think that they're, as a community, we need to decide.

Coach Mills (01:38:10.4)
Yeah, d too too bad there's like there's like maybe like five people that Q rank that are like that and like for everyone else it's just like a toxic susp Okay. Okay

CaptainCoach (01:38:14.789)
Yeah. Right.

Donatello (01:38:18.398)
I think I just wanna I just wanna like circle back that you said it. It's cause like you know when you recognize those names in the Qs, I think we're all like high ELO enough where like the Q or like the people we play with or and against are kind of like similar names we see or we saw. And like sometimes like I am not feeling for the f the like the iron fist guy that went like six and thirteen last game. Like fuck that guy, I'm good. And when I see he overs the character, I'm like

Coach Mills (01:38:26.602)
Mm.

CaptainCoach (01:38:43.876)
Yeah.

Donatello (01:38:48.084)
Fucked, I forgot to avoid him and he's back on my team. Well, I don't wanna fail for him because he just ran my game down, you know? But then there's some there's there's some other case where like,

Coach Mills (01:38:52.426)
Yeah. I I I've I

CaptainCoach (01:38:57.029)
Mills knows I'm about to start talking about EOMM, so he's trying to change the subject.

Coach Mills (01:38:59.919)
no

Donatello (01:39:00.256)
Like like sometimes like I'll have like the guy fill for me last game and like we did good and like we won. I'm like, you know what? I'll fill for you this game. Like fair. You know what? Like handshake and that's fine.

Coach Mills (01:39:09.696)
Yeah. I I think I've asked a lot of DPS players this. Like if I could say like, Hey, would you fill if you a hundred percent won the game? And like almost every D PS player would probably say yes. But the problem is like if you fill and you and you get like an inter DPS that like throws the game, like you'll never you'll you won't fill for the rest of the day. Like fuck that. I'm not filling. Like it that the 'cause the cost of doing that is like you're sacrificing all your fun and enjoyment for a fucking loss when you would have won if they would have filled for you instead, like, yeah, that's like the worst feeling ever.

Death and Gaming (01:39:20.398)
They don't.

Donatello (01:39:27.09)
Yeah, exactly.

P_tato (01:39:27.473)
Yeah. Yep.

P_tato (01:39:36.753)
Yeah. Exactly, bro. Exactly.

Coach Mills (01:39:39.351)
Okay, so I I want to talk real quick. So there's there's still more questions we got to get through, but this is an interesting stat. So I'm looking up at the win rates of the season, Celestial Plus. So these are the top three heroes. I want to hear y'all's takes about this. The top three heroes based on win rate. So first with a 7.38 pick rate percent pick rate and a 57.39% win rate is Black Cat. That's the that's the third mo highest win rate. number two.

With a 20.8% pick rate and a 59.52% win rate is Mantis. And number one with a much less pick rate, 3.52%. Yeah, with a 64.02% win rate. 64 is Penny Parker. Penny Parker. Penny Parker. So those are the top three from win rate. Now I know that pick rate matters, like like pick rate affects a lot of things, but yeah.

mike (01:40:13.211)
she's

CaptainCoach (01:40:14.117)
I thought it was Penny.

P_tato (01:40:15.985)
Yeah, penny.

Donatello (01:40:18.462)
No, that's pretty.

CaptainCoach (01:40:19.589)
There you go.

mike (01:40:21.847)
That is disgusting, bro. That is disgusting.

Donatello (01:40:23.313)
Yeah, that is disgusting.

P_tato (01:40:23.623)
Penny broken character.

Coach Mills (01:40:32.736)
Penny, Mantis, and Black Cat are three characters that are winning a lot of fucking games right now. what are your thoughts on these three? Do you think that that these are, you know, fine characters to play? I I I I I I asked Light what what tier. I was like, hey Light, what tier is Black Cat? And he's like, yeah, bottom of S. I was like, shit, bottom of S. Like I I asked him like day two of the patch. and yeah, this character seems really good again. So what's y'all's thoughts on these these three being like this dominant?

mike (01:40:59.183)
I think it definitely makes the most sense because like the low pick rate on Penny, it makes sense. But like once you play against one of those OTP pennies that know how to do like the mines in the air, you walk back and you blow up. It makes sense that she has such a high win rate. And like a really good penny who knows how to place their mines in a place that you cannot shoot is one of the most annoying things of all time. But like it's not really a big issue for me because I play torch and I can fly around and shoot shoot the mines and whatever. But but when when you

Coach Mills (01:41:24.438)
Right. Natural counter, natural predator.

Donatello (01:41:25.21)
Yeah, I was about to say.

P_tato (01:41:25.627)
Hmm.

mike (01:41:29.035)
Yeah, yeah. But when when you play against a penny they ban torch, what you do? Like there's it's so difficult.

Coach Mills (01:41:33.014)
You ban Penny, baby. No, I'm just kidding. He said drinking.

CaptainCoach (01:41:33.365)
I'm playing a drinking game where every time Mike says torch, I got a drink. I don't know if you guys can tell.

P_tato (01:41:34.449)
Yeah. Yo Mike, who do you play? Who do you mean, Mike?

mike (01:41:37.84)
Torch, Torch, Torch, Torch, Torch, Torch, Torch, Torch, Torch. and

Death and Gaming (01:41:38.446)
I do

Coach Mills (01:41:42.346)
shit.

CaptainCoach (01:41:42.903)
shit, can't, the sponsors are not gonna like this.

Death and Gaming (01:41:46.964)
It as as someone who who who plays with a penny player, like it's not what what sucks is that Brussel Brandon Gritch, what what sucks is that most people like don't want to do the uninteresting things like destroy the nests. Scylock is really good at destroying penny nests. And she's also really good at destroying the bombs by just dashing over a lot of the webs. And like a lot of what I'll do when I'm playing Silock, which is really uninteresting, is I s I know where their locations are that they like to plant the bombs. So I dash over them to make sure that my team doesn't die.

Coach Mills (01:41:53.174)
Shut up, Brendan.

Death and Gaming (01:42:16.546)
And then I destroy the penniness. And this is where I think like stats are very misleading is that I go I will have less like worse stats on the scoreboard, but I'm providing value for my team and I'm helping enable my team. And the win rate for Penny is stupidly high, but usually each season my personal win rate against when against Penny is in the 60% because of the fact that like when you know how to disable her, she's very useless. So it's like.

CaptainCoach (01:42:32.165)
See ya.

Coach Mills (01:42:39.932)
Th there's there's a lot of there's a lot of what were you saying?

CaptainCoach (01:42:40.601)
So quick, Penny is my number one band, like my number one counter. When I play with Death in Gaming, I let her through. We're good.

Coach Mills (01:42:50.186)
Yeah. Well I there's a lot of boring things. I I say boring, like a lot of necessary things you have to do against the penny to win. I think a lot of people don't do those things. Like tanks should always be jiggling in and out of like any nest they see on the ground to like clear like all the nests because they won't die. So your supporter just doesn't walk up and just get murdered, but like a lot of tanks don't like there's a lot of things that like you just have to do. I feel like Penny's win rate might be a little inflated because like there's not enough like people don't get enough practice against Penny. I mean I do think the character is really, really strong in like

Death and Gaming (01:42:50.454)
I'm gonna shoot the nest. Let me

Donatello (01:43:03.89)
Yes.

P_tato (01:43:20.242)
Well I I have

Coach Mills (01:43:20.384)
I don't know about like ner what what do you think, Tato?

CaptainCoach (01:43:20.517)
They just pick her on defense, pick her on good maps, that's why.

P_tato (01:43:24.445)
So I think and I've been saying this since the game that shall not be named, starts with O. there's like a archetype of character called like a gimmick character where it's like they just have like a a a very unique interaction.

mike (01:43:24.612)
Yeah.

P_tato (01:43:39.314)
And if you can beat the interaction then the character is terrible, but if you can't, then the character will just run the game. It's like Penny, if you can break the nest and not step into mines, you the character does nothing. But if that interaction happens, then it hard carries the game. And because it's like a low pick rate character, like not a lot of people play the character, like you you're playing the game normally, and I just added mines. You know what I mean? And that's like insane value. Like the character is so broken. And you the I swear, like I get every time I see a penny, I just say, we lost.

mike (01:44:02.893)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:44:02.997)
Yeah.

P_tato (01:44:09.009)
Like, you sh you get spawn health by Penny every game, it's open. I swear. I swear every time. First point Penny, you you just insta lose, bro. His character is broken. You have to you have to invest so much resource to go and break the nest. And then if the other team is good at the game, they're gonna know you're trying to break the nest, and then they can just kill you and try do it.

mike (01:44:10.232)
Uh-huh.

CaptainCoach (01:44:13.477)
Every game. It's bad.

Coach Mills (01:44:15.561)
And y you and y

Yeah, I've I've been banning her a ton, to be honest with you as well.

CaptainCoach (01:44:20.133)
She's been my number one band for three seasons.

Coach Mills (01:44:31.146)
I I'm not gonna lie, I think I've banned more tanks this season than any other season. Like I I've banned a lot of tanks. I don't know I don't know what y'all are banning. Mant well yeah, Mantis too, yeah. But but like

P_tato (01:44:36.093)
No, I man Mantis every game. Mantis gambled every game.

CaptainCoach (01:44:39.075)
I'm, my bands are Penny Emma Punny. It's my bands.

mike (01:44:43.617)
That that's a that's like a Hulk type of band right there. That's a Hulk player band right there.

Coach Mills (01:44:45.366)
Yeah, but he got a ban got a ban around himself.

P_tato (01:44:45.715)
Yeah, I was about to say puny punny

Donatello (01:44:46.083)
CaptainCoach (01:44:46.309)
yeah, yeah. Punny. mean, Pani, Emma is the most picked tank by far. Like nothing's even close and she's not like, I mean, I can play around her, but it's more just Penny with like other counters. Like they can just chain their CC and it's just, I can't play the game. I can pretty much never commit if the Pani, the Emma's good. And yeah, then Pani obviously with the infinite ammo. That's just, just stupid.

Coach Mills (01:45:13.69)
okay, so well yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I I mean she has the I mean twenty point eight pick rate, percent pick rate, that that's not a small pick rate. Like typically as a character's pick rate rises, their their win rate will fall. Like if Penny was played in twenty percent of games, she wouldn't have that high of win rate, but the fact that Mantis has that high of pick rate and that high of win rate, and then this is when by the way, Luna, Cloak, and Invis all have negative win rates.

P_tato (01:45:14.929)
Yeah, I Mantis is just self explanatory, no? Like

Donatello (01:45:17.448)
Yeah, Mentis.

CaptainCoach (01:45:17.675)
I agree with- Mantis Prime at number four or five. Ben.

P_tato (01:45:21.393)
That character needs to go.

Coach Mills (01:45:41.777)
but Mantis has like an overwhelming positive win rate. Like she's just like like completely dominating, like right now.

CaptainCoach (01:45:45.925)
Yeah, I just don't play her because, or I just don't ban her because I play her. That's like when they counter swap, I'm like, fuck you, I'll just go triple healer.

Coach Mills (01:45:49.901)
Yeah.

P_tato (01:45:54.035)
Well I think the the problem I have with that hero is if I if I tr scroll on Twitter or I scroll on TikTok, everyone tells me that Mantis is terrible. You know what I mean? It's like every every comment section on like the recent balance is like, whoa, whoa, Ultron and Mantis need buffs. Whoa, what are we talking about? I I just feel like it's it's either the majority of the player base playing them in like two support comp and they can't heal bot. You know what I mean? So they think it's weak.

mike (01:45:54.557)
Ha ha.

Donatello (01:45:55.365)
huh.

Coach Mills (01:46:02.856)
Ha ha ha.

CaptainCoach (01:46:03.781)
yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:46:21.199)
Say with your chest, Mantis players are bad.

P_tato (01:46:23.921)
No, it's not the Mantis it's not the Mantis players. It's not the Mantis players, it's it's the players on the Mantis' team. Because you don't have enough heal you don't have as much healing to fix mistakes, and they're not gonna get maybe as much value out of the damage boost.

mike (01:46:24.159)
O

Coach Mills (01:46:24.16)
Well, okay.

CaptainCoach (01:46:29.655)
Okay. Right.

Coach Mills (01:46:34.006)
Yeah yeah Okay Okay, so so here's here's here's a hot take that someone had threw out in my in my stream today that was kinda crazy. There should be crossplay in Marvel Rivals ranked. Well 'cause there's already console players. Let's go like T T K and console players. That that that's what they said. They should be a crossplay. Well I I do would that actually affect would that actually

CaptainCoach (01:46:34.603)
I'm bad. I'm the bad one. Shit. I hate mantis on my team when it's not triple.

P_tato (01:46:50.865)
Hell no Hell no No no no no

Death and Gaming (01:46:52.558)
Mm-hmm.

Donatello (01:46:54.14)
No, no, no, no.

P_tato (01:46:59.411)
I don't know.

mike (01:46:59.543)
No.

Death and Gaming (01:47:00.942)
What about Amist?

Coach Mills (01:47:03.22)
I mean aim assist is i if you're if you're on console on PC you get aim assist. So it's it's reduced. It's reduced, yeah. But like they could do it like Apex where it's like if you're if you're playing on PC you have a certain percentage of aim assist and if you're playing on console you have another you know, that that's what they did, yeah.

mike (01:47:03.619)
Yeah.

P_tato (01:47:07.409)
Well yeah, but it's I I I'm I'm pretty sure it's like a nerfed yeah, it's a much more reduced version, which it should be.

CaptainCoach (01:47:07.695)
We're gonna keep the.

P_tato (01:47:21.713)
I mean it's still absurd, it's still absurd. Like when I when I play against CTK, he's aimbotting his dick off on Emmo, like come on, it's still insane. Come on, bro, like it is still absurd.

Coach Mills (01:47:26.262)
Yeah, I know. I I I thought it was great. Like I I I I ran into these exact like the problems I ran into when I was covering Halo Infinite. It was just like every pro was on co controller. Like not a single pro was on mouse and keyboard. Okay. it doesn't seem like anyone agrees with that one, so I'm just gonna move on.

mike (01:47:27.341)
Yeah.

P_tato (01:47:44.337)
Yeah Yeah, you have to wild things.

Donatello (01:47:47.112)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:47:47.327)
Nah, it was a wild take, but like they did they just wanna play but that's the thing, is like that would be a really like casual thing to do 'cause like he wanted to play with his friends. All of his friends had PC, he had console, he wants to play with his friends. he couldn't play with his friends and ranked. You know, that's that's kinda why

mike (01:47:53.07)
Yeah.

P_tato (01:47:53.543)
Yeah, it would.

CaptainCoach (01:47:57.862)
You could make the argument that the console meta kind of negatively affects the higher-rank PC meta. I mean, that's kind of an interesting conversation if we wanted to go down that route. Because Magic WinRate, for instance, obviously very high. And that's because the tracking sites, I think, count PC and console, right? So I do think that kind of matters, like kind of melee. Daredevil is another one. While I think he's really good, do think that Fantastic, another one you usually see higher than what

P_tato (01:48:07.761)
Yeah, I agree.

CaptainCoach (01:48:26.703)
people value him on tier lists. So curious to hear your guys' thoughts if you think maybe the console meta negatively affects the PC meta potentially. It's like kind of one of the things we, yeah.

P_tato (01:48:37.127)
A hundred percent, I agree. Like I see it and then like look, I'll try not to say any names, but

Every single person that comes from console to PC is either a melee one trick or a predominantly melee player. And then you look at the leaderboards or like what gets even played in like console MRC, it's like melee is way more dominant than hit scan on console. Like way more so. And it's just because you the aiming ability is weaker. Like it's harder to harder to aim on a on a controller than a mouse, or it's like less it's less effective even with aim assist. So yeah, i the metas are different. So if you had like crossplay

CaptainCoach (01:49:03.109)
Yeah.

P_tato (01:49:15.793)
it would like s i it would it would almost screw up what's strong. Or it would almost make I think like a console players would probably just be pr much weaker in PC lobbies just because of what they're used to playing. Or they're hero pools.

Coach Mills (01:49:24.608)
Well that that that's that's what I'm saying is like the argument is it wouldn't it probably would hurt high rank console players the most, right? Not everyone else?

P_tato (01:49:30.801)
Yeah, it would. Sorry, I'm trying to tell I don't know, w Mike and Donny, what do you guys think?

Death and Gaming (01:49:31.98)
Yeah. The the hardest thing

mike (01:49:32.27)
Yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:49:34.81)
What?

mike (01:49:35.417)
No, I think the exact same thing, bro, like badass.

Donatello (01:49:37.736)
Yeah, but then didn't you just say you were like scared of the amist but they all play melee.

P_tato (01:49:42.577)
Yeah. You get aim assist when you play a melee characters. Like Magic Dash you get aim assist. Yeah. Yeah.

Donatello (01:49:46.322)
you do as well? Okay, like it's easier? Yeah, I'm not too sure with that either.

CaptainCoach (01:49:46.585)
Wait, wait, really? Wait, can you explain that? I actually didn't know that.

mike (01:49:47.769)
Yeah.

P_tato (01:49:53.713)
You get aim assist on on aim assist is global on a controller. Correct I'm pretty sure this is this is why w what you think aim assist turns off when you pick a s when you pick a different character?

Donatello (01:50:03.176)
No, but I just thought like the aim assist you were worried about is like on Hello or something, like you just like perma dink people and not like on melee characters.

CaptainCoach (01:50:04.408)
as soon.

Coach Mills (01:50:09.418)
Yeah, it mo mostly mostly the the criticism I see with people about aim assist, at least in pro play, is like like TTK never misses like a like a magneto shot. Like ever. Like he'll never miss a magneto shot or he'll never miss a crystal or like like stuff that like there is margin for error for most people. There isn't any margin for error for him. but like everyone can't be like T T K, by the way. It's not like it's easy to do this, but no, I'm just I'm just letting the people know. I'm not trying to tell people I'm re I'm not just trying to roast T T K.

P_tato (01:50:10.051)
well I'm

mike (01:50:18.991)
Or like a crystal either.

CaptainCoach (01:50:21.827)
P_tato (01:50:26.829)
You get y I'm

CaptainCoach (01:50:28.344)
I,

P_tato (01:50:30.833)
Yeah, I'm n yeah, I'm not I'm not saying that the aim assist Yeah, yeah. No one in their right mind is like, aim assist does everything. Like aim assist it sh is aim assist is a good is a good thing. You should have aim assist because a controller is just a objectively worse input device than a mass and a keyboard. Like you need aim assist. If you didn't have aim assist, you couldn't play the game. Like you would be handless, respectfully to all my controller players on Rivals. If you didn't have aim assist.

CaptainCoach (01:50:33.604)
I mean.

Coach Mills (01:50:38.728)
Right, right. It's it's not it's not like an Apex or whatever whatever people

CaptainCoach (01:50:44.761)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:50:52.541)
Yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:50:53.017)
I know this is not like a Marvel Rivals dev or anything saying this but according to Google AI, yes, Amosys does apply to melee heroes on consoles. So, potato, yeah, that is correct. I don't know if that's true, but I trust it. Our AI overlord.

Donatello (01:51:02.004)
No.

Coach Mills (01:51:03.988)
I I know I know that d depending on the depending on the hero, not every hero wants it, but yeah, but yeah.

P_tato (01:51:04.914)
Yes, sir.

Death and Gaming (01:51:10.094)
There is there's one major weakness that players on controller have over from PC players is that they can't 180 in the same way. So what I used to do when I knew players like when I played in games that where I I I could see the camera, I could see that the someone was playing on controller, I would play a character like Silock where I could dash behind them and they'd just be kind of screwed to whatever damage I could do. Like there is there there's a signific there's certain characters that for sure, like magic or playing tank, that kind of like it balances out, but then you're limited on your hero pool because if you're

mike (01:51:17.127)
yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:51:18.117)
Yeah.

mike (01:51:31.595)
Yeah.

Death and Gaming (01:51:38.722)
You know, if you want a one eighty you just can't. It's just that you don't have the speed to do so.

Coach Mills (01:51:42.615)
I feel like it would be kinda fun, like the Wild West. I'm not gonna lie. Like maybe maybe like I just don't care 'cause it won't affect me, but I just think it'd be kind of fun. but anyway. So so we had a a you know, pretty good pro. We had Trust Me on the pod a little while back. No a really good pro. And and and so he said Yeah, yeah, and he said that part of the way that you win games is by stream sniping

Death and Gaming (01:51:46.946)
Yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:51:50.467)
It would be fun, yeah.

P_tato (01:51:52.092)
I guess.

CaptainCoach (01:52:00.505)
Pretty good.

Donatello (01:52:01.885)
Yeah.

P_tato (01:52:02.418)
Nah, he's only a world champ, he's pretty good.

CaptainCoach (01:52:04.663)
Yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:52:09.977)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Coach Mills (01:52:11.69)
Banning the heroes that the person picks, thinking about the lobby, you know, running trackers. And so that so that that's that's cheaty. So he said he said so so so so track so the the statement is trackers and sneak stream sniping ruin competitive integrity and should be banned slash banable. Agree or disagree.

P_tato (01:52:16.179)
Cheating.

mike (01:52:18.019)
So boring, so boring, so boring.

Death and Gaming (01:52:18.126)
Cheating. Yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:52:19.887)
Dude, I knew I'd like potato on this pot. We agree with everything, bro.

Donatello (01:52:20.689)
Nah, that is fucking boring. That is fucking boring.

Donatello (01:52:33.15)
I agree.

P_tato (01:52:33.743)
I agree, but it's impossible to enforce, you know what I mean?

mike (01:52:34.157)
Yeah, it's so Yeah, yeah. It's so boring though.

Coach Mills (01:52:36.8)
But right now but right now it's like you can just say he can say with his full chest on a pod and it's there's no penalty.

Donatello (01:52:37.406)
yeah.

P_tato (01:52:40.327)
So wait, so I I didn't see the clip, but can I guess what he said? I guarantee he's like, Yeah, it's a bad bit, you have to do it to win. Is that what he said? Yeah, exact like it's the same it's because I I have to argue with these I have to argue with these chuds every day about configs a as well. Like you know I mean, like it's just cheat like if you if you in my my opinion, and I feel like this is like undefeatable, surely everyone with a brain can agree with this.

Coach Mills (01:52:44.885)
Yeah, go for.

Coach Mills (01:52:49.184)
Yeah. Yeah yeah no y no

Donatello (01:52:50.409)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:52:54.006)
No way.

Death and Gaming (01:52:54.062)
That was pretty much it.

Death and Gaming (01:53:01.166)
Yeah.

Donatello (01:53:01.54)
yeah, yeah, yeah.

P_tato (01:53:08.995)
Anything you use outside the game to get an advantage inside the game is just cheating. Am I wrong?

CaptainCoach (01:53:14.051)
A lot of people don't see that. That's like officially old school now from what I've seen. A lot of people think sniping is okay. I totally don't feel that way.

mike (01:53:14.201)
Yeah, it is.

Death and Gaming (01:53:14.775)
A cheating.

Coach Mills (01:53:22.784)
Well i and and and like I and and I I agree with you, Tato, but from what trust me is saying is that he's saying that just like what you said, that it's not you can't ever track those things, like stream sniping, you can never actually track it. So from his point of view, it's like he's putting himself at a fundamental disadvantage when he knows other people are gonna do it. And so like if he doesn't do it, he's not trying he's not playing to win. Like if he if he's actually playing to win, he's gonna do it just like everyone else is doing. That's his argument anyway. It's like

Death and Gaming (01:53:24.856)
No.

mike (01:53:33.081)
Yeah.

P_tato (01:53:46.129)
Yeah. I understand the argument, but I just think it's it Yeah, yeah. It it's it's a bad argument. If your friend jumped off a bridge would you do it too? Like come on bro. Can we just like can we play the game? So corny.

Coach Mills (01:53:49.728)
It's like Barry Bonds with the fucking steroids, you know what I'm saying? Like everyone's doing it, you know, like you gotta

CaptainCoach (01:53:52.133)
You

Death and Gaming (01:53:52.974)
Yeah. I

Coach Mills (01:53:57.66)
Ha ha ha.

Donatello (01:53:58.88)
No.

Coach Mills (01:54:01.194)
But but Netties has no official policy on doing it or no.

Donatello (01:54:04.565)
Yeah, I mean they can't do anything. I mean we're deciding to stream the game with our open screen, so it's like we could all hide our screens, but then like I need to hide my music or not my music, but like my my game audio because now they'll hear the cu the cue pop and then the the Tokyo twenty ninety nine music. we're in the same game. Now I'm batting wolf. But it's like

mike (01:54:06.285)
That's impossible.

CaptainCoach (01:54:13.113)
Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Coach Mills (01:54:15.318)
Mikey's sleeping. Jesus. That's crazy.

P_tato (01:54:15.698)
Mm-hmm.

CaptainCoach (01:54:16.206)
Ha ha ha.

mike (01:54:17.249)
Yeah, so boring, bro. So boring.

P_tato (01:54:18.831)
It is boring.

Coach Mills (01:54:22.738)
Yeah.

mike (01:54:22.806)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:54:23.161)
Yeah. Hey. Don't underestimate the skill ceiling of avoiding stream snipers. It's pretty high, I'll tell ya. I employ a lot of tricks. You get snipers, Donnie? Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:54:30.716)
Yeah. You're c gonna jump through every fucking But like at least at least the tr at least the tracker sites like could it like the tracker sites like vi bypass privating and like still finds your b like like they they could do something but like netties could definitely come down and make it like a priority to like like shut that shit down and like you know something.

Donatello (01:54:31.664)
Yeah, I know.

But

Death and Gaming (01:54:35.79)
There's

Donatello (01:54:38.027)
Yeah.

mike (01:54:41.582)
it's so like

Donatello (01:54:42.271)
Okay, the the tra the tracker website is branded, yeah.

P_tato (01:54:43.015)
Yeah. The track is a brain dad.

Donatello (01:54:51.219)
Yeah, they they should do that. And I think the the cringest thing is that is that the pros use it. Like, bro, you are a Yes. Yes. Exactly. Yes. You're a professional. You're supposed to be you're supposed to be better. So like and if anything if anything, like like you should be able to play into everything. Like a any you'll get better if you do that. You'll get better if you play into an Iron Fist one trick. Because what happens if is he's meta next season? You know what mean?

Death and Gaming (01:54:51.918)
And they should.

CaptainCoach (01:54:58.021)
Mmm.

Coach Mills (01:54:58.228)
More than more than anyone else. Pros use it more than any fuck they stream slide more than everybody.

P_tato (01:54:59.175)
Yeah, yeah. Like bro, you're a pro player and you're still and you're cheating.

Like Yeah, exactly.

mike (01:55:07.364)
Yeah.

Donatello (01:55:20.873)
Like why as a pro are you like hard focusing on your ranked? Like I know it's fun to like hit a high rank. Like we all like grind rank. Like as a pro, like your entire gold, unless you're streaming, because I think it's fun like to have a goal when you're streaming, like go for high a high rank. Unless if you're if you're a pro stream playing the game off stream and like you're target banning people and like you're you're you're using a tracker, then you're you're fucking shameless. Like that is boring.

mike (01:55:49.091)
But they need a win, bro. They need high yellow.

Donatello (01:55:50.825)
Yeah, like they need a the plus eighteen. Like bro, what? Y you make money playing the game, just get better.

Death and Gaming (01:55:57.359)
I think it's I think it's just ad like I think it's one of those things where we can't in f we can't expect Netties to enforce everything. But collectively as a community, it should be one of those things where if we find someone using a tracker, it should be looked down upon. Like all of us should look at that and be like, yeah, that's lame. Cause there's multiple games I've gone into where someone's used a tracker clearly to ban someone who's using a niche pick on my team. And they just end up losing anyway, because even the people in like the lower ELAs who are using the trackers.

mike (01:56:23.32)
Yeah.

Death and Gaming (01:56:25.838)
It's like, yeah, you're handicapping to give yourself an advantage, but then you get in lobbies you're not prepared for because you had to cheat to get your way up there. And now that you're up there, you have 21 deaths at the end of the game and you don't know what to do. And, you know, to see it especially like come from like the higher rank players, it's like, yeah, you got rank one, but you stream sniped and you used a tracker and you memorized banners. So it's like.

CaptainCoach (01:56:33.199)
Yeah

Coach Mills (01:56:33.918)
It absolutely are.

Death and Gaming (01:56:49.484)
Maybe you got rank one, but now there's an asterisk next to your rank one the entire time to me. Like I don't I don't care what rank you got if you got it by like using every dirty treat cheat you could do. Cause like, yeah, I am not mechanically the best player, but like I play, you know, a fifth of the time at twice everyone's age. And I get to a high enough rank that I'm like, hey, I got this. I never used a config. I never used a stream snipe. I never, you know, use a tracker. So it's like that rank is my rank, right?

CaptainCoach (01:56:54.445)
I-

mike (01:56:55.257)
What

Death and Gaming (01:57:16.77)
You know, to everyone else it's just like if you get a rank using a cheat, that's not that's not your rank. Like

mike (01:57:17.145)
Yeah.

CaptainCoach (01:57:17.881)
Bro.

I got a guy I play with, I do it with, I met him from my chat who says he hopes my Hulk gets banned all the time so I don't play such a dog shit hero every game. He's like hoping for it. I respect that though. I'm glad we're kind all on the same page with that because...

Donatello (01:57:20.714)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:57:29.502)
Okay, okay, okay, nice, let's go.

mike (01:57:29.663)
Ha ha

Death and Gaming (01:57:30.444)
Coach Mills (01:57:37.472)
Yeah, that's that's Mikey, you said you had something you wanted to say, right? You you you wanted to

mike (01:57:41.8)
I was gonna say like if somebody memorizes memorizes the banner, I think that's like you know, as part of the game as a banner. But like if someone's going out of their way to get like use an OTP tracker, stream snipe, do all that, I think it's like it should be looked down upon. But again, I think if they're memorizing a banner, it's in the game. It's whatever.

Donatello (01:57:48.029)
Yeah, that's fine.

Coach Mills (01:57:57.844)
Yeah, well I mean yeah, that is the

P_tato (01:57:58.577)
Yeah. I think an easy rule, I just said it before, is if it's in the game, yeah, fair play, it's in the game. But if it's outside the game, bro, you are a cornball, go play Roblox. What are we doing, bro? Like

mike (01:58:04.771)
Yes.

Donatello (01:58:06.057)
Yeah, I agree with that.

Death and Gaming (01:58:10.776)
Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Mills (01:58:11.606)
Yeah, I I I we we've kind of we've come to this opinion multiple times on the pod. I wonder if y'all I mean y'all probably do agree, is that like I feel like a lot of pros don't really act that professional. Like they're they're not really like they're like really they should be like representatives of the game. Like like you know, like yeah, like Abbassis. No, they don't care at all, but like it definitely comes from the top down. Like like Netties has to kind of enforce it and then like like you know.

CaptainCoach (01:58:12.485)
Roblox rivals.

Donatello (01:58:13.441)
Yes.

P_tato (01:58:14.515)
Please roll.

mike (01:58:23.723)
no. No no no not at all.

CaptainCoach (01:58:29.261)
ambassadors.

P_tato (01:58:29.969)
Nah, they don't care about optics in this game.

Coach Mills (01:58:39.186)
Or or they have to give people opportunity that do, you know, show the game in a in a good light. Are good ambassadors, you know. Donatello, you know, people like that, like give people opportunities, you know. How you know, have represented. but

Death and Gaming (01:58:47.469)
Yes.

mike (01:58:49.751)
CaptainCoach (01:58:50.895)
There you go. What would have Donnie have done with the 150k that Cina got for her tournament?

Coach Mills (01:58:55.836)
shit.

P_tato (01:58:57.063)
Wait, Mike, you're a fan or whatever is is running again.

Donatello (01:58:58.528)
Wait, so what's the question? You want me to answer yours, coach?

Coach Mills (01:59:02.07)
No, no, I no and Donnie Donnie, I appreciate you being here even though you're sick. I know you I know you're not feeling great, but I do appreciate you coming coming through.

CaptainCoach (01:59:03.149)
Would you have done the Senna tournament any differently?

Donatello (01:59:09.85)
no, I I no, I think like all these events, like they're fun. But I I think it's just I don't know if if the other content creators like I mean like all you guys and me, like sometimes I just feel maybe a envious or jealousy. Maybe 'cause we're not in these tournaments, like when they just throw money at the bigger streamers. Yeah. Is that the question or am I like going in on the wrong way?

CaptainCoach (01:59:29.365)
okay. I was going to say what you would do with the money, but that's a fair point as well. Yeah. I personally, like I, I honestly like.

Coach Mills (01:59:31.891)
No, no, that that does.

Donatello (01:59:36.615)
I thought that's what you meant. I thought that's what you meant like if you wanted me like to host the tournament.

CaptainCoach (01:59:43.205)
I mean, I'd be down.

Coach Mills (01:59:44.939)
Donatello (01:59:45.128)
As in no, as in like as in like invite the Marvel streamers over like the the popular streamer. I thought that w that's where you were going with.

Death and Gaming (01:59:45.312)
I pr I pr I wouldn't. Dude.

CaptainCoach (01:59:50.553)
Yeah, I get you. Yeah, like if you hosted a tournament, like who would you invite? That's kind of, yeah.

Donatello (01:59:56.363)
Yeah, exactly. I think I would invite the I mean the the most fun I've had in the tournaments were the ones I've played it with in and the ones I played in were including pros and content creators. And I think having the the the mix matching was pretty fun. Maybe it's for me because like I enjoy like getting better and having like I played with like Aaron Mori and like Sparker and all these guys, like Techie. So it was like a different game, you know, thing with these guys. So

Coach Mills (02:00:25.809)
I agree.

Donatello (02:00:25.846)
For me that was a lot of fun. So if I had to host my tournament then there was there would definitely be pros and content creators as well, but mainly content creators from the game and not like bigger content creators.

Coach Mills (02:00:37.839)
So some random places.

Death and Gaming (02:00:41.144)
thinking Justin, we have to be kind of specific as to like, you know, communities tend to mimic the and and you know, copy the behavior of the people that they follow and the people that they watch. And a lot of the reasons, like I've said before that I've had issues with like the way the pros, you know, conduct themselves. And this is not just unique to rivals, but just for like esports professionals in general, is that, you know, as you get older, like when you learn team sports, you learn sportsmanship from a young age and you

Keep that as you get into being an adult. But when you're a kid and you become really good at video games, you don't really have that sort of camaraderie or or you know teaching to like be a good sport. And, you know, when I see people, content creators or esports professionals like show such bad behavior, it doesn't help because then, you know, the community thinks like, this is an okay way to act in-game. And then for, you know, it

It makes it difficult because then of course your matches are fucking shit. Like, so it's like when like like whenever you have like a a tournament and stuff like that, people are like, some people are like, why didn't we invite like these other people? I'm like, there are some people in the rival space that I'm like, I would absolutely not want to put on a platform. Like, but there's some great people that, you know, of all different ranks that are, you know, super awesome and they're fun to play with that.

CaptainCoach (02:01:38.405)
We're not gonna name names. Okay.

Coach Mills (02:01:39.811)
No, no, no. my god.

P_tato (02:01:41.359)
All name names aren't good.

Coach Mills (02:01:56.65)
Ha ha ha.

Death and Gaming (02:02:05.292)
would be great. And I think that that's something that when it comes to creating any sort of tournament or esports professional sc scene, like that stuff needs to be taken into consideration. Cause like I can say like if I was net ease and I saw some of the behavior the way people were talking about the game, I would just completely cut them from the the the scene entirely. Like, hey, if that's how you're going to act, then you're not good branding for our, you know, our company. So it's like we just can't have you. So it's like I want, you know, that kind of stuff to grow, but you can't grow it if people are, you know,

behaving in ways that are unprofessional.

CaptainCoach (02:02:34.109)
I I think Nettie is once the squirrel girl man who plays two hours every month to host their tournaments though. That's kind of a, yeah, my bad.

Coach Mills (02:02:39.734)
okay, so speaking of which, so th this is there's only a few more hot takes. We're almost through them all. one of is Netties releases too many heroes too fast and needs to slow down and to better balance and optimize the game. Agree or disagree?

Death and Gaming (02:02:40.938)
Yeah.

mike (02:02:59.087)
I love the I love a new character every month, bro. I love that shit so much. Like the problem with the with the game that shall not be said, like the O game, there was never new content, bro. Like I swear that shit was like the same game for like a year, bro. It was so boring. And then another thing that I hate about the the game that shall not be said is they only started adding content like more as soon as Rivals started doing it, which like made me even sorry to jump off topic here, but like Yeah, like it's

Coach Mills (02:03:08.272)
Yeah.

P_tato (02:03:09.703)
Facts.

Death and Gaming (02:03:11.352)
Yeah, true.

Coach Mills (02:03:12.052)
No, it's fucking terrible. Holy shit. Yep. No, I agree.

P_tato (02:03:25.511)
The moment they had competition.

Coach Mills (02:03:25.8)
So it's it's some people are leaders and others are followers, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Death and Gaming (02:03:27.715)
Yeah.

mike (02:03:28.912)
boring. Yeah, like I I think it's awesome that they have new content.

P_tato (02:03:32.551)
Yeah, I agree with Mike. I think the balancing they do is good enough as to where they can just really like something every month is insane. I say this all the time to my to my chat. If y I think Rivals is one of the most pro consumer, pro content cycle like the most has the most insane content cycle of any game it's at now. They release a new skin every f every two picoseconds, and there's a new hero every month. I mean, like what more can you ask for? I mean, yeah, sometimes balancing is is terrible because of it, but like bro is it bro

Death and Gaming (02:03:41.422)
That's insane.

CaptainCoach (02:03:50.98)
Yeah.

Donatello (02:03:51.764)
Yeah.

Death and Gaming (02:03:58.775)
As it's

Coach Mills (02:03:59.371)
Yeah. Cause I'm curious about y'all's opinion on the content, but like content has been performing at least on YouTube has perform been performing better than ever. Like since season zero. Like content is so fucking insane right now. Like it's doing so good. I don't know. like it's I think that they they had a it was like a hundred and ninety two K peak on Steam for Rivals, which is like an insane like what the hell? That's fucking

Death and Gaming (02:04:01.807)
Yeah.

P_tato (02:04:02.79)
That's that's awesome, bro.

P_tato (02:04:12.243)
Mm.

P_tato (02:04:21.841)
Yeah, the player counts are insane. Hmm. I mean bro, Mike gets a new bronze to eternity every seas every every every month. Like, come on man, like shameless. Shameless

Coach Mills (02:04:29.654)
That's true.

mike (02:04:29.956)
Ha ha ha.

CaptainCoach (02:04:31.973)
I just want to shout out like Mike, Mike lately, he dude, he's been grinding. Like Mike has been absolutely killing it.

Donatello (02:04:32.235)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Mills (02:04:36.342)
I've been I've been on every every Tim the Tapman J three video, rank one everybody. Sheesh.

mike (02:04:36.687)
Thank you.

P_tato (02:04:37.415)
Yeah, no, Mike is YouTube Danus. Mike is YouTube him.

CaptainCoach (02:04:40.099)
He's killing it. He's on it, man. He was even spamming the dino, like...

Donatello (02:04:41.513)
mike (02:04:41.955)
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Death and Gaming (02:04:42.914)
Yeah. I I

Coach Mills (02:04:46.838)
Yeah that that's actually wild that you picked up Dino and were that good at it so quick. That's kinda wild. Were we saying death are you?

mike (02:04:46.923)
Yeah, I was on yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Character's fun.

Death and Gaming (02:04:49.357)
Yeah.

P_tato (02:04:51.633)
No, real ones remember Dom the Dino, bro. Real ones know Don the Dino.

mike (02:04:52.639)
It's pretty good.

Donatello (02:04:54.411)
Mm.

Death and Gaming (02:04:58.046)
I also want to add, I was gonna add like from a dev standpoint, being someone who works on the dev side, I d I people I think get too they get too used to the idea of just like, a hero every month or a skin this often is just is just that easy. Like they can just do that. Like there are months of work that goes into, you know, coming up with concepts for a skin, going through the approval process, all the meetings that that takes, and then it goes to like just creating all this stuff.

To come out with a hero every month or a skin as often as they do and to do as much as they do, like Taylor said, like this is a very pro consumer company. This stuff is working at speeds that realistically I can't imagine it getting done without people working a lot of overtime. So whenever people are mad at or use fast track tools, but like, yeah, like this is why I try to give the devs a lot more credit where credit is due.

CaptainCoach (02:05:41.995)
Or use AI, you know. AI skins.

P_tato (02:05:49.928)
Cool.

Coach Mills (02:05:51.222)
I got like a million fucking pictures to choose from for the thumbnail potato. Like like literally like unlimited. Like fucking in but un unlim unlimited.

CaptainCoach (02:05:54.133)
but but but but

Death and Gaming (02:05:56.77)
There's gonna be a good ones for this.

P_tato (02:05:57.073)
Yeah, I I was I was trying to give you can we we should all do it in synchronization.

CaptainCoach (02:05:57.221)
Sorry.

Donatello (02:05:58.816)
Ha ha ha.

Death and Gaming (02:06:00.47)
Yeah.

CaptainCoach (02:06:01.477)
Sorry, Imperator was on a couple of weeks ago. He said that they should use AI for balancing. You made me think of it. That's why I brought it up. Yes, he did.

Coach Mills (02:06:06.774)
So trust me said that too actually. No, trust me said that too. He said that too actually. Yeah. Tara said what? That's what they said.

Death and Gaming (02:06:08.044)
No, no, no, no, no.

Donatello (02:06:08.651)
No no.

Death and Gaming (02:06:12.95)
No, no. None of those. No A tie tools. No. But my whole point is just the fact that like.

CaptainCoach (02:06:13.103)
But sorry to interrupt. Sorry to interrupt.

P_tato (02:06:13.202)
What?

mike (02:06:13.239)
Unoriginal though.

P_tato (02:06:18.279)
Well wa the the AI is gonna the AI is gonna find all the slop takes on Twitter and then they're gonna bounce the game from that? Like

Donatello (02:06:19.041)
Be ridiculous.

Coach Mills (02:06:23.69)
Well no, it's like basically like just based on like pick rates and win rates. It's like it would like take in the data and like just adjust every season or week or whatever the fuck. I don't know.

CaptainCoach (02:06:24.291)
You wanna hear my hot take? I've been holding on to this.

Death and Gaming (02:06:24.524)
Yeah, no.

P_tato (02:06:27.571)
P_tato (02:06:31.795)
Let me hear it, let me hear

CaptainCoach (02:06:33.027)
Yeah, so like they can't have people just play their game and play against like computer trained AI. So part of the way they balance the game and this is why they kind of let any player get to like any rank pretty much. And with this most recent balanced patch too is they're trying to basically it's like behavior manipulation through game balance where like, okay, so now the shield or the brawl tanks will now go off to the side.

They're trying to like basically fine tune it so that like everybody has like this addictive gameplay loop that they can just go through over and over again with Like the way they balance the game so so like basically what I'm saying is that like each individual player what you're encouraged to do is Basically their way of designing like an advanced AI to keep people playing their game over and over again like an addictive gameplay loop so you're basically like trained by netties through the way they balance their game to repeatedly log on play a lot

And I'm telling you, it's I read the end match PDF.

Coach Mills (02:07:32.19)
It's it's fucking w it's fucking working. I'm playing the game. I I be I put more hours

P_tato (02:07:34.087)
Let's no yo yo yo coach coach coach put the pit put the drink down bro it's too many it's too many

mike (02:07:34.627)
They got me, bro. They got me. They got me.

Coach Mills (02:07:40.911)
I'm just gonna

Death and Gaming (02:07:41.583)
Dev devs devs are a lot less interesting than I think people realize because like I I am I am I am a developer. I've worked as a systems designer, I've worked as an artist, like all all the developers are the same as everybody here. We argue in office the same ways. Like we go back and forth, and a lot of times it's just like yeah.

CaptainCoach (02:07:41.847)
I know.

Donatello (02:07:42.465)
No.

CaptainCoach (02:07:48.035)
I'm telling you,

Coach Mills (02:07:52.704)
Yeah.

P_tato (02:07:53.03)
what?

mike (02:07:55.104)
Awesome.

P_tato (02:07:56.243)
Wait, that's fire.

Coach Mills (02:08:02.536)
I can't imagine Captain Coach is a game dev, bro. Like in the office, like like like you you have these like two you have these two coworkers that you fucking hate 'cause they keep buffing like Luna and you're just fighting with them every time, but they outvote you two to one. Like every time you're in office. Fucking no no and they always just they get they get the go ahead.

mike (02:08:05.519)
Honkeza OP, Honkey Z O P.

CaptainCoach (02:08:06.053)
Oh my god. Oh please. Please.

P_tato (02:08:06.683)
He would save the game! He would save the game

Donatello (02:08:09.176)
Ha ha ha.

Death and Gaming (02:08:15.884)
Yeah. Legitimately that happens.

CaptainCoach (02:08:18.157)
Hahaha.

CaptainCoach (02:08:22.368)
Death in gaming

Death and Gaming (02:08:22.754)
I've gotten in so many fights at my jobs. Like, like, no, this is a terrible idea. Like it is it is just as heated in the office as it is online and everywhere else. So it's like I promise you that whatever takes you guys have, there are people at Netties that have the same things that you that you agree on. Like and they they go back and forth in the office the exact same way.

P_tato (02:08:38.419)
I mean Yeah. Some Lunar Snow just has to be like some dude's O C at Ned E's. I I swear.

Coach Mills (02:08:45.451)
Ha ha ha.

Donatello (02:08:47.019)
Yeah, yeah.

Death and Gaming (02:08:47.298)
There could be a lead over there that has a bias, like I that could be the case. Yeah.

Coach Mills (02:08:49.211)
Yeah, let's we all wait, wait, wait.

P_tato (02:08:49.863)
He got a body pillow. Some some balance guy. I swear. Whoa, whoa, whoa! We?

mike (02:08:51.895)
Whoa.

CaptainCoach (02:08:53.061)
That was actually said. Yeah. shit.

Donatello (02:08:53.44)
shit.

mike (02:08:55.371)
We got a body pillow, we got a

Coach Mills (02:08:57.428)
Wait, my bad. We wait. I saw I saw I I I saw Donatello laying the moves on like on the s on stream, like the game before he came on the pod. No? Hey, hey, hey, hey, you were you were like you were having like an open conversation, like like Dana was like Dana was like clear calls or something. I don't I was just hanging out in there waiting for waiting for you. Yeah Gee shees, okay.

Donatello (02:09:00.62)
yeah, so we mike.

P_tato (02:09:01.789)
Who is we, son? Who is we?

CaptainCoach (02:09:03.599)
Death in gaming actually.

Donatello (02:09:11.064)
I said, what?

mike (02:09:12.087)
O

P_tato (02:09:19.347)
It's when you're playing with Manda, bro. This guy.

Donatello (02:09:20.5)
Donatello (02:09:24.394)
Yeah, about the dwarfing, yeah, yeah, yeah.

mike (02:09:26.587)
P_tato (02:09:26.707)
Yeah.

Death and Gaming (02:09:27.308)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (02:09:27.85)
shit. okay, so here's here's one that's interesting. You you should be you should be able to see all end game stats in the mid game. And that that that's that's what also healing received as a stat is another one though. So you could see everything. Like like you can know final hits, you can know like a all the data that you get to know at the end, you get to know

Donatello (02:09:29.279)
shit.

P_tato (02:09:31.089)
Mm.

Hmm.

one hundred percent. one hundred percent.

Death and Gaming (02:09:38.178)
No. No.

mike (02:09:41.433)
Like like finals in

Donatello (02:09:42.718)
the final hits, yeah.

P_tato (02:09:44.951)
yeah.

Donatello (02:09:49.634)
I mean why not? Why why isn't it like that, actually? Like why why are they hiding the final hits actually? I just realize

P_tato (02:09:50.929)
Yeah, yeah. I agree.

Coach Mills (02:09:52.874)
Yeah, yeah, I don't know may May may maybe so people don't feel bad like when they fuck up in the first I don't know. Like you don't get flamed.

Death and Gaming (02:09:53.582)
It just

P_tato (02:09:59.419)
I think healing healing received, because it would help both. Right? Healing received it would help both. If you're not getting healed, you have proof. And if you are healing, you have proof. You know what I mean?

mike (02:10:00.024)
I I I

Coach Mills (02:10:08.598)
That's true.

Donatello (02:10:08.62)
Yeah, and if you're taking too much damage also.

mike (02:10:08.675)
I feel like that

Death and Gaming (02:10:08.728)
Yeah, but if my DPS Yeah, but if my DPS is is is like giving a blowjob to the Punisher alt, why am I gonna get paying for being like, why didn't you heal me more? How can I heal more? Like this is this is why, like, even though there's stats, it doesn't mean that the the player base knows how to read stats. Like the amount of times that I see DPS being like, my tanks only have four finals, yeah, because I was in their spawn alting in their face to make sure they didn't touch the point to like a to contest it. Like stats don't mean anything.

CaptainCoach (02:10:11.266)
It would.

P_tato (02:10:11.526)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Donatello (02:10:15.438)
Ha ha ha.

mike (02:10:16.801)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Mills (02:10:17.158)
Hey.

CaptainCoach (02:10:17.893)
Whoa

Coach Mills (02:10:21.75)
I mean

CaptainCoach (02:10:25.829)
Mmm.

P_tato (02:10:34.013)
Right.

CaptainCoach (02:10:34.819)
Okay, death. As a

P_tato (02:10:36.551)
But it it goes both ways. You know what I mean? Like you can use to defend yourself and to flame your teammate. So it's like

CaptainCoach (02:10:39.587)
Yeah, no, for sure.

Death and Gaming (02:10:44.184)
But most players only look at one thing, which is damage in finals. Yeah. Yeah.

CaptainCoach (02:10:44.677)
Okay, okay, I wasn't gonna say that part.

Coach Mills (02:10:45.832)
Ha ha ha

Donatello (02:10:47.234)
Yeah.

mike (02:10:48.481)
I think I think they should add objective time. I think that's like a one that should be added, bro. Like that I I don't

Donatello (02:10:51.584)
Mm. Yeah, I agree with that one. Yep.

CaptainCoach (02:10:51.909)
100%.

Death and Gaming (02:10:53.218)
That one that one I can see. But where are you gonna say, Captain Coach?

P_tato (02:10:53.339)
Mm

Coach Mills (02:10:56.084)
I got gold objective time. Let's go I got gold da yeah, no, I would love I went That was the best part about it. That's like that is

CaptainCoach (02:10:58.541)
As a former

P_tato (02:10:58.577)
Mmm. Put the medals, put the medals in the game, bro.

Donatello (02:10:58.668)
Yeah, we need the badges. If we need the badges, I would like that. You're talking to bronze damage right now.

Death and Gaming (02:10:58.932)
Yeah. Yeah.

mike (02:11:05.002)
wait no that's ball, that's ball, that's ball. Sorry, so that's

CaptainCoach (02:11:06.081)
Yeah, true, As a former game dev, don't you think more information, like power to the players is almost always a good thing? Like a positive, like more freedom to figure out, make decisions, affect the outcome?

P_tato (02:11:06.321)
That's knowledge, that's knowledge.

Death and Gaming (02:11:18.891)
No.

Death and Gaming (02:11:23.562)
No, I don't I don't think so. And technically still a game dev. Like I I do not think that giving players more information is necessarily good because of the fact that they don't know how to read the information still to this day. Like, you know, it doesn't matter what everyone's stats are if there's one person that consistently dies first at the start of every fight, right? Like if you're walking up and your your Daredevil dives in before your tanks do and he dives in in those 1v9 situations or whatever.

And now you're down a player as you have to buy time waiting for him to come back, hoping he doesn't do the same thing six times in a row, which he will. Like it doesn't matter. At the end of the game, he's gonna be like, Well, look how much damage I had. It's like, Well, you know, yeah, at the end of the game, you have nine finals, which is the most in the lobby, but you have 12 deaths and everyone else has four. Like, still to this day, people are looking at the stats like, look at how much damage. Like, people just did that to last night when I was playing Rogue or I walked up. And as soon as I go to engage,

CaptainCoach (02:11:56.345)
Hey.

CaptainCoach (02:12:06.457)
Ha ha ha ha.

Death and Gaming (02:12:17.314)
Both of my DPS die and then I'm like, Okay, well now I need to leave because otherwise they're just gonna walk the rest of us down. And that would just repeatedly happen over and over again. They're like, you didn't do enough damage. I'm like, When would I? Like

CaptainCoach (02:12:18.725)
Okay.

CaptainCoach (02:12:27.865)
Yeah, so, but like, don't you think with that power, you of all people, being someone who's, you know, for the team generally, Phil's, and is like a good teammate, would see that as an opportunity to be like, hey, let's figure this out. Let's work out this problem that we're having. Can you, don't you think there's a certain element of communication that would be introduced through the, like, introduction of more extra stats, yeah, for everybody? You, you,

Donatello (02:12:52.289)
Extra stats.

Death and Gaming (02:12:54.776)
I th I I think the scoreboard only exists to pad your own ego personally. All the information. Yeah, all I the only in all the information you need is happening in game and you should be able to see that. That's where your game sense comes in. Your stats don't mean shit. Like I said, if I spend the entire game marking a Black Panther or a Daredevil, but they don't do their job and we win the game, then I don't give a shit what my stats are. I've always been one that's that said, your stats don't mean everything. Like s look at the strategy, look what's happening.

CaptainCoach (02:12:58.287)
Cause I feel like you're only looking at the negatives here. Okay.

P_tato (02:13:00.017)
Facts Yes I'ma need that.

Death and Gaming (02:13:23.512)
And when I'm playing the game and I see like, someone in the enemy team or like someone in my team got a pick on the enemy team. Like if I'm playing and Tato gets a pick a Psylock on the enemy Hella, I'm like, I'm gonna start playing much more aggressively, knowing that it's a six V five. And then when I see that second pick, I'm like, we're gonna walk down the rest of them. The only thing you need to see is what's happening in game. When I hit tab, I'm looking to see everyone's alt charge, but I know and I recognize that when I'm looking at my team comps and I see that my, you know, my venom is only two and three.

But that convoy hasn't moved at all. I recognize that that's because the Venom has been jumping on that convoy repeatedly and distracting the supports. Like the stats in the game, like, yeah, like sometimes it shows your what you did, but most players only know how to use it to sit there and compare and say, Well, I actually didn't do that badly because look at how high my damage and look at how high my finals are, look at how I whatever. Like, you know, the amount of buckies who like, you look at how many finals I get. It's like, do you understand what the definition of again is? Like

CaptainCoach (02:13:59.524)
Yeah.

Death and Gaming (02:14:18.934)
Yes, you are going to have a lot of finals when you clean up fights. Like that's what you do. And same as when I play Scylock, I steal finals from people. That's what I do as ScyLock. But all the information that people need to see is happening in game. That's not when you hit tab. It's like if you can't see what's happening in game, then like that's why I think that the scoreboard actually just hurts us more personally. But I don't know. I know that's a hot take. I I don't I like if there's a way around that, I'm not sure.

Donatello (02:14:19.489)
Coach Mills (02:14:43.996)
Yeah. I mean yeah, people people are gonna misuse like any amount of information. I think like at least for high ELO players though, like I feel like they could probably use that data like at least reasonably well and maybe not jump to conclusions so so soon. Yeah. I like I did have a fight, like I think it happened the other day where I jumped in back line as Venom, Phoenix team up, beat ass, made them pocket each other, my team killed the front line, and then I jumped back to get healing, and then like eventually my team walked up and killed them.

CaptainCoach (02:14:44.943)
Pretty interesting.

CaptainCoach (02:14:49.743)
There's always gonna be a toxic element.

P_tato (02:14:54.363)
Yeah, I'ma need that.

Coach Mills (02:15:13.322)
So like everyone on my team had like four to six kills and I had zero. I was zero, zero, zero. Like I had no assists, no kills, a whole bunch of damage. And like then we lost the next fight and it just looks like my dumbass is feeding. But like that's we won the game. We won whole fight. Like I made both supports

Donatello (02:15:25.003)
Yeah.

P_tato (02:15:26.685)
Like, Yeah, like for example, there are cer there are characters that are prone to getting a lot of stats, and then there are characters that don't get any stats. Like like if I'm playing Star Lord, I get six KP or I get six eliminations. Sorry, like the not final, you know, like the number? Just like kill participation every fight 'cause you just spin on the whole team. But like if I'm playing Wolverine, I only get one. You know what I mean? So like, yeah, I understand I understand I understand what you're saying, right? But there there are certain situations where like to to

Donatello (02:15:40.715)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Donatello (02:15:44.548)
Uh-huh.

Death and Gaming (02:15:47.788)
Yeah. But that one could be the reason why you won the fight in the first place.

Donatello (02:15:47.801)
Yeah.

Exactly, yeah.

CaptainCoach (02:15:50.276)
Yeah.

P_tato (02:15:56.636)
To to properly understand what is happening in the whole game. You you you need that information on the scoreboard. Like you need that to to read the match. Like if I had a Yeah, yeah, to figure out to figure out what what needs to change. Like for example, if if I had the healing received stat, if I had it, right, then I could confirm a question for myself. You know? Am I g am I getting looked at? Maybe I should ask to get looked at a little bit more, you know what I'm saying?

CaptainCoach (02:16:05.337)
Death. Death.

Coach Mills (02:16:05.472)
Figure out figure out how to how to change your playstyle or you know.

CaptainCoach (02:16:16.164)
Ugh.

Death and Gaming (02:16:18.882)
Yeah. I I think I think that more Yeah. I think that more people would abuse it than more people would understand how to use it is I think my argument. Like I am sure that you could be able to interpret the data, but majority of player base is just going to use it to just say like, it's not my fault. Yeah.

CaptainCoach (02:16:20.759)
Yeah, I would love that.

P_tato (02:16:35.036)
you're right, you're right. People do that already. People people do that already.

CaptainCoach (02:16:36.175)
That's a valid take. I actually see an argument. What if they added a, they track when everybody on your team is alive and they add a first to death or first kill stat. the thing that just kinda, right, like first blood.

Donatello (02:16:36.524)
Yeah. Yeah.

mike (02:16:49.131)
Or like yeah, first blood, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Donatello (02:16:50.157)
I got first blood, yeah.

Coach Mills (02:16:51.296)
No

Death and Gaming (02:16:51.756)
That that could be interesting because those actually do matter way more, right? every one of us can agree that if if the person who dies first is gonna set your team back. Yeah. Like anytime you get a first kill in a fight, like that's that's kind of a huge like that's actually a good argument to like include important stats like that. Cause yeah. but also I don't know how they would separate it, but like first kill staggers, you know, but I'll yeah the

CaptainCoach (02:16:56.205)
Yeah.

P_tato (02:16:58.27)
J Wood gets fast blood every game. Every vote.

CaptainCoach (02:17:01.177)
Hahaha

CaptainCoach (02:17:15.971)
Yeah, it would get a little murky, I feel like.

Death and Gaming (02:17:20.12)
There's just so many things that happen where, you know, like like say you're you're playing a Rocco, the the first point the first convoy's about to about to cap, you're on offense, you're playing Hulk, you jump into their spawn door, you ult at their spawn, now they can't walk out. You know you're gonna cap specifically because of the space that you're creating. You have, you know, low damage 'cause you're a tank. You have zero kills to show for it, but you know that that play was what won you the game. Like, yeah, exactly.

CaptainCoach (02:17:45.605)
We call those tactical ints. That's what we call those. Yes. Yes.

Donatello (02:17:48.685)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Mills (02:17:49.238)
Yeah, I do that I do that a lot, but most people just say I'm throwing the game.

Death and Gaming (02:17:49.622)
And tanks know to do that, but you know, at the end of the game, yeah. The game will end and your DPS will say that like your DPS with, you know, like sixteen deaths are gonna say you didn't get enough finals as like, well, you were dead the whole game. Like you're my damage. I can't do anything with you dead. So it's like people already just don't know how to read stats and they don't know even necessarily how the game is played up until the highest levels.

mike (02:17:54.265)
Ha ha.

Coach Mills (02:17:57.078)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (02:18:12.234)
Well if we if so well let's take that argument to its logical conclusion. Should we take away stats? Is there any stats we should take away? Should we not even allow you to see how much damage your team or healing your supports have doing? 'Cause like other games have done that. Well you don't even get to see any of those stats. Like not a single one. Yeah. Yeah. well Yeah.

P_tato (02:18:18.291)
No.

Donatello (02:18:19.564)
No no no.

P_tato (02:18:25.511)
Well you can only see your own, right? In right now? Yeah yeah yeah.

Donatello (02:18:29.709)
Yeah, end game, yeah. Until the end, yeah, you only see yours. you see I mean you see the kills.

P_tato (02:18:32.007)
I think what we have now is enough.

mike (02:18:36.025)
Well, you can see how many finals you have? okay. I was about to say, I about to say, I was like, I've never s

Donatello (02:18:38.115)
No. No, but you can't see your teammates dam you you can't see your teammates damage. You can't see your teammates damage until the end.

P_tato (02:18:38.578)
No no no.

Coach Mills (02:18:38.964)
No, no, no, no, no, no.

P_tato (02:18:42.577)
Yeah. I think what we have now is good. I would like more, but I understand people use stats to just glaze themselves and to blame other people. The vast majority of people do that.

Coach Mills (02:18:51.062)
Poorly.

Death and Gaming (02:18:52.696)
Yeah. Imagine those imagine those average Twitter takes you see. Imagine that they have stats now and how they would interpret Yeah, like

Coach Mills (02:18:57.002)
Ha ha.

P_tato (02:18:57.777)
Yeah, Kidasan is posting ten times a day if you put that like

mike (02:19:00.628)
yeah, I see that guy posting paramount right.

Coach Mills (02:19:01.09)
Yeah. Okay, so we we've kind of so I'm I'm gonna ask y'all a group question after this to wrap things up, but this is the last like actual hot takes question that we have on the pod. so it's performance MMR should be entirely removed from mid plus elo in Marvel Rivals. Agree or disagree?

Donatello (02:19:02.029)
P_tato (02:19:18.803)
Yeah. The f sorry.

Coach Mills (02:19:20.883)
No, how good.

Donatello (02:19:23.235)
I think I think MMR should just be reworked as a whole. I come from League of Legends and like the MMR system is way different. Way, way, way different. I don't know if if anyone here played League of Legends, but like let's say let's say you start out on a Smurf account, okay, in League. And I think they still have placement matches. Let's say I go to and win 10 placement matches and I'm placed in gold. And then

CaptainCoach (02:19:31.982)
CaptainCoach (02:19:36.565)
League.

Coach Mills (02:19:36.893)
yeah.

Donatello (02:19:51.106)
I'll win like two games where I destroy the lobby because obviously I'm not a gold player. Well my MMR will like skyrocket and two games later I'm still gold gaining a lot more ELO, but I'm playing into diamond lobbies now. So like I have a gold border playing into diamonds. Like sometimes what would happen is that you're at like plat rank, which like okay, let's put it like plat is the same as plat in league, and then you'd like in a GM lobby. 'Cause like your MMR

You're like the game already knows what your real rank is, but like Marvel doesn't do that. It's like they don't know what rank you are. I could go in a fresh account and drop seventy kills on Bucky for ten games in a row and be placed silver two. And then I I still need to to to win like thirty games to go up. I think I think it would fix a lot of the people like complaining about Smurfs in their game because you do your tent 10 placements and if you do them properly, then you would you would al be already be like GM MMR. But there's not

Death and Gaming (02:20:47.756)
Yeah. But yeah.

Donatello (02:20:49.007)
There's there's no MMR basic there basic there's

Coach Mills (02:20:49.348)
Yeah, they they eventu they eventually did that for Overwatch, like at the start. they they didn't do it but they did they did that too. That's it. That's actually interesting that they don't they don't place you based on your MMR at all, which is very weird.

Donatello (02:20:53.485)
Yeah. But Marvel just doesn't have an MMR system. It has a rank system and that's it. Yeah, no, there's no MMR in in Marvel.

CaptainCoach (02:21:03.301)
I think they have it, but it's super behind the scenes. And I think that's more for.

P_tato (02:21:05.331)
This guy's like every conspiracy Captain Coach. Every like every conspiracy bro. It's too funny.

Coach Mills (02:21:07.094)
Well th they they did talk about it. It's really minima No

Donatello (02:21:07.649)
Yeah, but like

I mean I mean I mean the the MMR the the MMR is just your rank. Like there's no like you don't have like an hidden hidden hidden rating, sorry. Like in League. Like League discovers your rank through your like stats. Marvel doesn't.

mike (02:21:12.131)
Ha ha ha.

Death and Gaming (02:21:12.427)
Okay.

CaptainCoach (02:21:15.407)
Hi-yah.

CaptainCoach (02:21:27.797)
I don't want to go too far. I agree with you, everything you said. I think the hidden rating is almost how almost every single match where you feel like you just can't win is. I think they factor your win rates and how much you've actually, if you view your rank as almost like a parabola, where the highest rank is you're unlikely to get there because it's so, you're just really, that's where your skill level is, right? And everybody has a different peak.

mike (02:21:30.147)
Ha ha.

CaptainCoach (02:21:55.993)
then when you're in games where the engagement system will say that you're not, like you might log off here, they literally will match you with worse players. Like I'm a full believer in EOMM. So like when Donnie mentions MMR, like I think it's in the game, but I don't think they utilize it in the way that they should to help players. I think they use it to get players to play more. That's personally how I feel. I know like people are split and I always bring this up, but I really do think it is like a really big problem with the game.

Donatello (02:21:56.069)
Mm-hmm.

Coach Mills (02:22:08.054)
We couldn't get there.

Donatello (02:22:18.051)
Yeah.

CaptainCoach (02:22:26.565)
Cause I think it takes away from the competitiveness a little bit. Cause I think league system's not perfect. It's not like a true ELO system. Like they actually used to have it back in, I want to say season three. Donnie, by the way, how long have you been playing league? I didn't know you played league.

Donatello (02:22:40.197)
old map. I can't remember what yeah.

CaptainCoach (02:22:42.403)
Okay, yeah, so that's, yeah, think that is actually like season three. shit. so I, I get where you're coming from. I do think they could benefit from a more like traditional ELO system, but they're never gonna do it. No.

P_tato (02:22:44.647)
So how long have you been sober?

Donatello (02:22:47.425)
Ha ha ha.

Death and Gaming (02:22:47.604)
Yeah.

Kick the habit.

Coach Mills (02:22:54.838)
Well

Donatello (02:23:04.353)
Nah. They won't.

P_tato (02:23:05.841)
Nah, it's too casual of a game. I don't think they would have

Death and Gaming (02:23:10.902)
Yeah, I think that the combination of the fact that there's there's kind of like those soft resets that place you back and there's plays and matches and the seasons are so short, like performance SR helps people get back into those higher ranks quicker. so that's kind of like the the trade-off of having like seasons so short. So, you know, if you were to change it to where the SR gains were more consistent, you'd probably have to have slightly longer seasons. And maybe that's another conversation of like whether or not they want to do that. Cause

Whatever you do in gaming, when you change one thing, you're going to affect everything else in another place. And I do think that performance, the the big problem what you have with like match quality is some of the performance SR, because if you can climb on DPS by just pumping damage, naturally you'll get more for your wins and less for your losses by doing trash damage. Whereas, like for me, my playstyle has always been I'm gonna, I'm gonna win less SR and lose more, but I will win more games.

overall because of the fact that I'm gonna look at the strategy of it. Like I said, like marking a player is sometimes going to get you way more value than trying to pump damage. And that's my preferred type of playstyle. But like when I get into games where I have those people, like I said earlier, like if you're pumping damage and you're charging enemy support alts, you're actually, you know, all that damage is actually making things harder on your team. And you don't understand it, don't realize that because you get into the game, you're like, well, I got SVP, so I couldn't have I couldn't have been the reason that we lost. It's like, but yeah, you 100% were. So

You know, I think that they definitely need to change the system because you can design it in a way which incentivizes good play, but currently it's not incentivized in a way to encourage good play. Like it's incentivized in a way to encourage selfish play. So, you know, if there's a better way to design the system, I think that they should look into that. cause I th I do believe that the a big reason why your matches feel as as crappy as they do is because most players are autopiloting to what they

Think they should be doing, and most have no understanding of how the game is actually played. Cause, you know, I as someone who who understands like the resource trade back and forth coming from Overwatch, I am always one where, you know, when I'm playing Captain Coach and I'm playing DPS, I'll wait one second because I know he's gonna play super aggro and he's gonna jump in and I'm gonna wait, and I'm gonna see all the resources come out, and then I'm gonna come in right afterwards, I'm gonna steal my kills and I'm gonna get out. Like, you know, but.

Death and Gaming (02:25:32.556)
i I'm gonna have a thousand damage in two finals and it's not gonna look very good on stats at the end of the game, but like who cares? I won. So, you know, I do think they need to change it. I just don't know necessarily how 'cause it's gonna affect everything as well.

Coach Mills (02:25:44.342)
What do you think, Taito, about performance MR? What what's your thoughts?

P_tato (02:25:47.643)
yeah, I I I think it's just an objectively better rank system. Like, obviously you shouldn't have people who Because there are people who pick up the game for the first time and they're already a GM player within the first ten minutes and then they have to slog through, like, all of the ranks, or there's people who like

Coach Mills (02:26:05.44)
Well just just for like high like for high ELO, because like performance still takes into account. Like if you're an over performer in high ELO, you think that that system should stay? Is that your do you you do? So you think like you 'cause 'cause what the like the main argument against then is it you have people that don't play to win. Like they don't do things that will they they have things that they do that benefits the that's yeah, instead of instead of like trying to like actually win the game. What's your opinion on it?

P_tato (02:26:12.903)
Yeah I do. I like it, yeah.

P_tato (02:26:25.487)
yeah, no, I know what you're saying, yeah. I don't think I don't think that's realistic. I think there are people who e everyone to some extent, unless you're like a a a troll, you know what I like to some extent everyone plays to win. Now some people don't play a team game, you know what I mean? But everyone's playing to win to some extent, and some kind of performance based MMR system would should should calculate

CaptainCoach (02:26:46.063)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (02:26:49.866)
Well, 'cause a po performance based MMR system is one of the reasons why like people can climb to Celestial on a negative win rate per for example. Like that type of that type of thing would never happen in a different ranked system, but you like there are people with negative win rates that get to celestial.

CaptainCoach (02:26:49.913)
See you.

P_tato (02:27:00.103)
Yeah, but I I think I mean I think in this game this is just like always gonna be the case. It's like a necessary evil for the way that like the rank system is made in rivals.

CaptainCoach (02:27:07.897)
I think this is probably the first thing I've disagreed with you on, B-Tato. Like we mentioned earlier with tracking, like Mike said, like objective-based stats. I think that is something that you, if even there's a slight bit of advantage that goes to people who don't play for 100 % trying to win, then I don't think it's a system that should ever be in the game. That's just kind of my viewpoint. think winning is the only thing that should matter, and we shouldn't trust it up to whatever their measurements are for determining who gets what.

Coach Mills (02:27:30.187)
Yeah like

Coach Mills (02:27:35.274)
Yeah, like 'cause like how d how does the system know you played right or wrong? Like if it didn't result if it didn't result in more wins, then was it actually the right play? Like

CaptainCoach (02:27:39.405)
Yeah, over time.

P_tato (02:27:44.211)
Well I think you could no right, you can speak, sorry.

Death and Gaming (02:27:44.782)
If I if I

I was I was just gonna say, like one of my favorite things to do as rogue is like I'll use my mobility to go all the way back to the enemy spawn and grab use my ability absorption to grab strange to cancel his TP and that'll be the game winning play. But it's you know what, fucking 25 damage or whatever the the grab is. Like that's that's not seen as good performance, but that was that or you know, my ultimate as being the one that negated the support alt that helped win, you know, my DPS pop off and get kills. My DPS gets the damage and gets the kills.

But it was my play that enabled it. So that's why the reason why, like, what is a good performance? Like, I don't think the devs understand that either. Yeah.

P_tato (02:28:19.953)
Okay, but look, respectfully, can I look, I think more like ninety-nine percent of the time, the scoreboard pretty accurately depicts what happened in the game. I I'm just gonna say how it is. I I don't I don't know if it's a no, I'm d I don't know man. I I feel like I used to think that that wasn't I used to think that that wasn't the case, but the scoreboard does say a lot, and I think you could engineer a system to

CaptainCoach (02:28:20.357)
I would hear s-

Coach Mills (02:28:23.434)
Yeah, go go for yeah, yeah, go for

CaptainCoach (02:28:35.877)
I don't agree.

Coach Mills (02:28:39.018)
I don't think that that's true for every character. I don't think so.

P_tato (02:28:48.679)
Handout Elo XYZ based on that a and it could be fairly accurate. I I think you could do that for rivals. I don't think it's an unrealistic thing to say that. I think it's a little bit I don't I don't think I don't think the word is pretentious. I think the word is like Dunning Kruger effect. I think it's a little bit Dunning Kruger effect to be like, the scoreboard says nothing and you can't you can't depict anything based on that. You know what I mean? Like I think that's a little bit too far.

CaptainCoach (02:29:13.092)
You're kind of, I mean, you me a conspiracy theorist earlier, where you're kind of describing the exact behavior modification I was talking about to get people to play a very specific way to have the games feel more or less similar to all the other ones. So they have like this kind of like litmus that they can kind of compare to. Yeah. So that's not beneficial to the highest.

P_tato (02:29:31.555)
yeah, I what you're saying, yeah. but like once again, once again, like I said Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. But what I was saying before, I think the what we have right now is completely fine for rivals. I don't think it needs to like I don't think we need a MMR system. I'm just saying that I see the advantage of it. You know what I'm saying? Like they could and it would be and I think it could be good. But it'd be like it'd be like too intricate.

CaptainCoach (02:29:42.958)
It's fun.

Coach Mills (02:29:44.872)
It it it's

CaptainCoach (02:29:46.958)
I get it.

Coach Mills (02:29:50.902)
Well th I mean there's a there's a reason like a lot of people think like from the outside looking in that the Maraville's competitive system is like really uncompetitive in comparison to a lot of other competitive systems. Right. Yeah, yeah, I know, but they like this is one thing they could do to change that and like make it more competitive. Like that the well, I mean it's not the only way they could make it more competitive, but it is something that they could do to make it more competitive. There's a lot of games like Valor, for example, once you get to a certain rank, you no longer get perfor like you get very minor performance bonuses, if any at all. So like it's plus or minuses. Like winning is like

P_tato (02:29:58.727)
Well it is, let's just be honest.

CaptainCoach (02:30:05.997)
All I'm saying... Yeah.

P_tato (02:30:06.163)
I think

Coach Mills (02:30:20.628)
The ultimate objective. Like 'cause like if Valorant's a big example of like, yeah, you could run around on Reyna and like frag out and like get top frag, but that's like has nothing to do with whether or not you're winning the game or not. Like playing strategically, like giving like holding your sight, controlling space, planting bombs, like they these things are more important. Like winning the game is more important and that's why they like in the low Elo, getting high kills is reflective of your skill, but in like everyone in in Valorant, like any immortal two shitter that's running around on Reyna getting high kills is like

They're not carrying the game. Like they're not doing shit for you. Like that's the thing. Like that's that's kind of like it's not always true like you said, but it could be true. And like like that's I I don't know, like you're still gonna win more games and like you're still gonna climb regardless of a s performance system or not, right? Like you're still gonna have a positive win rate. I mean

Death and Gaming (02:31:03.832)
I think there's also like like something that is important to remember too, because like we've all me, Captain Coucher Coach Mills have all experienced the solo tank tank techs, where like you can't do damage, especially in comparison to the other people in the lobby, you can't, you know, do as much because your job is literally just to survive. You're gonna win a game solo tanking, you're gonna get plus seventeen for it. So it's like the, you know, the system that's in place is just kind of is flawed and biased towards certain stats, which has been pretty clear.

P_tato (02:31:03.911)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (02:31:13.097)
Yeah.

Death and Gaming (02:31:33.528)
And it just kinda sucks to be on the receiving end of that where it's just like, you know, me as a once again, as a D P S player that would love to fucking play D PS, I don't mind filling, but when I fill, I also get punished for it twice as hard. It's like, well, this fucking sucks. Like, you know, I I

Coach Mills (02:31:45.015)
W what do you think, Mikey? You I know you played a lot of Dino. Like what do you how do you feel about like that? Like situations where you're like like as a solo tank you feel like you can't do as much and then you like you don't farm stats because you're like trying to just like, you know, play the objective and stay alive and

mike (02:31:49.743)
mike (02:31:58.765)
Yeah, yeah. I feel like Dino was a little bit like weird 'cause I'm pretty sure they the like the numbers were that was wrong, but like every time I I would I would get like forty kills, zero deaths, but since I didn't get VP I got like like plus eighteen or nineteen sometimes. Like it really wouldn't make sense. Yeah, i it it was really bad.

P_tato (02:32:12.467)
yeah, I swear Dana never get Mvp. It's like weird. was it bugged?

Donatello (02:32:15.777)
Yeah, he's bugged or something.

CaptainCoach (02:32:16.419)
No. My guess is that they were getting them all in the lower ranks from like, you know, the stats in the lower ranks are just like way better because people would just face tank them or whatever. That was my guess for it, but just, you know.

Coach Mills (02:32:16.52)
You could you couldn't get it, yeah. Yeah.

Death and Gaming (02:32:16.972)
Never did.

mike (02:32:25.177)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (02:32:26.976)
So, reading the room, so how many of y'all will actually like watch like Marvel like or comic book like Marvel shows and movies? Do y'all actually do that? Because I have a I have a final question and it kind of depends on whether or not you do or not a little bit. Okay, well I'm I'm gonna give you the you can answer this question too. This is gonna be the final question, kinda wrapping things up. So if you could if if you could bring a character from like any Marvel comic and like make him a D P S because I know you're D P S players, like well who would it be? and then alternative the you could answer both questions is if you could bring a

mike (02:32:34.519)
I wa I watch like the popular movies.

CaptainCoach (02:32:35.172)
Yeah.

Donatello (02:32:36.069)
A little bit.

Tidy bit.

Coach Mills (02:32:56.38)
Ultimate or ability from any other game and bring it into Marvel Rivals, what would that ability be? You can answer both, one or the other. Yeah, yeah, go for it, Mikey. Yeah, yeah, go

mike (02:33:04.879)
can I I think the I'm I'm I'm stuck between two characters. I I really want to see Quicksilver. I feel like that's like one everybody likes or like a super fast character. And I think number two would be Silver Surfer. I just think he's like a badass character. I've always thought Silver Surfer was cool. I don't know what he would do. And then for the ability, this was gonna be kind of crazy, but I forget the one guy from Valorant where his like his shot goes through the whole map or something, like like a

P_tato (02:33:33.213)
Silver?

Coach Mills (02:33:33.615)
you're talking about Silver, yeah, yeah. Silver old.

mike (02:33:34.359)
Like a Sova, Sova. Like I think a a Sova type of wool would be like I think would be pretty pretty cool. I don't know. That's just me. Yeah, like a railgun. I think it'd be like you if you could shoot like from your spawn and you get like a crazy like shot through the whole map or something like that, I feel like that'd be a crazy cool ability. Or like ultimate ability at least.

P_tato (02:33:40.955)
Like a rail gun piercing.

Coach Mills (02:33:53.76)
Yeah, someone trying to run back to spawn and you just snipe their like snipe their shit. That would be actually cool. That would actually be cool. I mean they could they could kinda it's kinda like that Hawkeye team up with the ice arrow, but like an ultimate, you know?

mike (02:33:56.757)
Yeah, like I feel like the clips on that show would be crazy. Yeah.

mike (02:34:05.315)
Yeah, like an ultimate that's just like a it's like a slow beam. I I don't think like an insta shot would be good. I think like a slow one shot like bang across the map and then if it hits anybody it kills them, I think. Yeah.

Coach Mills (02:34:15.326)
It's actually like silver. Yeah, that would actually be kinda sick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyone else have have one they thought of?

P_tato (02:34:20.659)
What about you, Donny?

Donatello (02:34:22.938)
I mean I wanted to say Quicksilver as well. And I'm not gonna lie, the the ability is like, you know, the the the I think it's from the X-Men, like the scene where he goes like in slow mo, like he's running like too quick, but like it slows everything down. He has he's got like his glasses. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that would be like pretty cool. Yeah, I have no clue.

Coach Mills (02:34:25.044)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (02:34:34.166)
Mmm in a bottle. Yeah. How how I wonder how they would do slow-mo. Would it be like an aura around him that like slows people down if they're in it? Or would you like literally like fucking would you actually quick time the entire lobby like everyone's moving in fucking slow motion?

P_tato (02:34:34.195)
If I could save time and I

mike (02:34:38.223)
Yeah.

P_tato (02:34:47.227)
It'd be some some bullshit like that, bro.

P_tato (02:34:52.443)
No i bro like but you would just like imagine you're trying to play the game and then your quicksilver makes you go in two FPS. Like bro, no no no bro.

mike (02:34:52.705)
I feel like they would make him like Tracer, would they not make him like Tracer?

Donatello (02:34:53.282)
It may be

Coach Mills (02:34:59.898)
no, imagine if someone has like a rewind ability. Holy shit, the entire lobby gets rewind. Like they you they could do some wacky shit. Yeah, you do some really like my god. Yeah. That would actually be

Death and Gaming (02:35:01.547)
Yeah.

mike (02:35:06.634)
that would be crazy. That would be the most

Donatello (02:35:07.962)
That well, yeah, that would be fucked.

P_tato (02:35:08.541)
That would actually be insane. Imagine you get a six K and then this guy just like rewinds it.

mike (02:35:12.481)
Yeah.

Donatello (02:35:13.722)
That would be tough. That would actually be tough.

P_tato (02:35:16.003)
That would make me so mad. Yeah, exactly, that's what I'm saying.

mike (02:35:16.193)
I feel like I'd be pissed off if I got like a six K Iron Manual to rewind that shit. I'm not like

Donatello (02:35:18.497)
Yeah, yeah.

Coach Mills (02:35:19.19)
That's cra that is actually crazy. any thoughts, Tato? Any any any any ideas? You still need a couple seconds to think.

P_tato (02:35:25.031)
No I I I've had a like theory for a character. Do you do you know Taskmaster? He's like a street level character, he's my favorite he's my favorite Marvel character, and I always thought it'd be cool to have a character in the game that could see enemy cooldowns. So because I I don't think it would be too OP because this is something you can just do in your head.

Coach Mills (02:35:35.252)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

mike (02:35:36.28)
yeah.

CaptainCoach (02:35:43.653)
Mmm.

P_tato (02:35:48.198)
So like I don't think I don't think that would be too OP. So like imagine like you play you play Taskmaster and then like above the enemy team's health bar you can see like their cooldowns like little boxes and then you can just relay that info to your entire team like like cloak no bubble or Loki no lamps even if you haven't seen it. You know what I mean? So that would Yeah, that's that's a concept that's a concept that I've I've I've thought of for a long time. I think I think that would be dope. I think that would be dope.

Coach Mills (02:35:49.418)
Right.

Coach Mills (02:36:06.154)
That would actually be fucking insane. That we've never seen that. That would be a sick pass. That would be actually dope. That would be really cool.

CaptainCoach (02:36:07.396)
That's a new one.

mike (02:36:08.227)
Perma band Perma Band Permaban Permaban. Yep. seven, bro.

Death and Gaming (02:36:10.296)
Yeah.

CaptainCoach (02:36:11.833)
That's a new one.

Death and Gaming (02:36:14.774)
That's that's actually an interesting mechanic 'cause like I they gave Daredevil wall hack, so I don't see why we can't go crazy.

P_tato (02:36:19.079)
Yeah, exactly. I exactly. And I don't think it would be too OP because it's just it's something you can do by yourself. You can like utility track by yourself. But it's not that broken. Yeah, yeah, like that would be his passive. You just see their cooldowns above their head. And then like, you know, maybe you can get a a buff if they have less cooldowns or more cooldowns or something like that. Like leaning to that whole that whole information. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that would be that was the next thing I thought of is like, you could influence their cooldowns somehow maybe.

Donatello (02:36:19.558)
Yeah, why not?

Coach Mills (02:36:19.69)
Yeah, like passives like that. Yeah.

Donatello (02:36:27.109)
Yeah, it's not that it's not that broken. It's like a nice passive to have.

CaptainCoach (02:36:27.877)
Yeah.

CaptainCoach (02:36:40.174)
maybe he's like glowing, you could see him.

Donatello (02:36:40.679)
You could like slow slow their slow their cooldowns would be tough.

mike (02:36:45.519)
Well that that sounds like crazy.

CaptainCoach (02:36:46.191)
That's That's so sick.

Donatello (02:36:48.529)
That would be sick actually.

P_tato (02:36:50.641)
And it like it goes into his law, 'cause like that's his whole thing, is that he's like he copies and sees everyone's stuff. Well you know what I Like he studies everyone's powers.

CaptainCoach (02:36:51.555)
Coach Mills (02:36:56.685)
well that would be s that would be sick. Taking that a step further, what would his like ultimate be for that character, that kind of character? What would you think?

CaptainCoach (02:36:57.359)
So would you?

P_tato (02:37:01.831)
Yeah, so his ult would be like he gets like a a healing not like a you know, like a support ult circle around him, and then if you step inside that, it like screws with your abilities somehow. Not that you can't use them, like maybe it lengthens the cooldown, or maybe it like scrambles the cooldowns, like you know, this game is goofy, this game this game is stupid. Like maybe it like randomly RNG like Loki Lamp is on like on a thirty second cooldown, but instead it's like your teleport that's now on a thirty second cooldown. You know what I mean? Something like that.

Coach Mills (02:37:18.826)
No, that would hit that would be that would be actually dope. That would be actually dope.

CaptainCoach (02:37:30.085)
Mmm.

mike (02:37:30.201)
I should be a kid. I actually like that I actually like that idea. I think it's actually a really good idea.

P_tato (02:37:33.223)
Yeah, that could be interesting. So yeah, that's my that's my pitch to Netz bro. That's my pitch. Put Talskmaster in the game. And do that. I've been saying this for seasons.

CaptainCoach (02:37:35.525)
That would be sick.

Coach Mills (02:37:35.626)
Right, nettties, get him in the studio. Yeah, g get him. That's that's actually pretty sick. That's actually sick.

CaptainCoach (02:37:38.565)
I've saying to Mills for a while, we need more blue type spells like that, that are just kind of like weird and not necessarily all mechanics, but more about just like how you strategize. I really liked that.

Death and Gaming (02:37:40.344)
Pretty good mechanic, not gonna lie.

Coach Mills (02:37:48.478)
Right, not just sustain but like yeah, yeah, some type of stress strategy thing, yeah.

mike (02:37:51.225)
We I I I think we should add more screen color clutter. What do you guys think about that? Like more? You guys want more? Yeah. Like your whole PC turns off and then just like Yeah.

Coach Mills (02:37:54.664)
don't worry, it will go and like you can't you fucking see. Yeah we didn't even talk about the fucking sc the clutter thing, bro.

P_tato (02:37:54.945)
yeah?

CaptainCoach (02:37:55.299)
hahahaha

Donatello (02:37:55.43)
Ha ha ha.

P_tato (02:37:59.741)
Yeah, so

Donatello (02:38:01.191)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

CaptainCoach (02:38:01.893)
I think I'm gonna be playing this game with 3D goggles, bro.

P_tato (02:38:05.543)
But two Jubilees and then you get Deadpool altered.

CaptainCoach (02:38:08.826)
Jesus. I'll probably have a stroke.

mike (02:38:10.113)
Imagine like like like a torch flames, penny mines, jubileo, and then just like a Ultron drone. Like what do you do, bro? Like Yeah.

Death and Gaming (02:38:10.435)
Yeah.

P_tato (02:38:13.683)
And Didi Alt, so you're blind as well?

Coach Mills (02:38:17.386)
How do they even fix that shit? Do they make it like things are transparent slightly? I like I don't even know.

Donatello (02:38:17.637)
Yeah, yeah.

CaptainCoach (02:38:21.445)
I think Mike is probably the number one Rivals fan. I think it's confirmed here. Every bad thing people say about the game, he's like, nah, more of it, it's better, it's best.

mike (02:38:26.575)
Yeah. Yeah, more more, gimme more. Gimme more. Yeah.

Coach Mills (02:38:29.206)
No, they need to put you on the cover of the fucking game, bro. Holy shit. Let's go.

Death and Gaming (02:38:31.0)
Just keep adding. Add more to it.

CaptainCoach (02:38:34.213)
Get those torch sunglasses with the skin. my god, that's funny.

Donatello (02:38:35.981)
P_tato (02:38:36.125)
Mm.

mike (02:38:39.339)
Yeah.

P_tato (02:38:41.489)
No, they need to put some setting in the game to get rid of Clutter bro. It's actually bad. I was a

mike (02:38:45.261)
I think they should like like should you there's a way should be like turn it down, but like not all the way up, but just like a turn it down a little bit, bro. Cause it's too much sometimes, bro.

Donatello (02:38:45.648)
Yeah.

P_tato (02:38:49.779)
Hmm. I think it's the colours. I I swear it's just the colours. Because Is it? Bro, but I swear like even

Donatello (02:38:51.025)
Hundred percent.

Right, I swear it's just Deadpool. This character has so much shit. When he throws the boomerang on you, bro, can't see anything.

Coach Mills (02:38:55.839)
CaptainCoach (02:38:56.33)
Yeah. Yeah.

Death and Gaming (02:38:57.048)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (02:39:00.37)
I I s I'll keep saying this every pod. I want to be able to set all skins to default skins. Like on both sides. Like I wanna be able to just s me seeing it, I can see the opponents. So I like so they don't look like all the fucking same character or whatever. Like I get lost sometimes. Yeah, I know. You get them on the you get them on the right combination of skins and you can't tell anything. Like you just can't.

mike (02:39:01.443)
Yeah, boo yeah.

P_tato (02:39:09.235)
Your client side. Yeah client side, yeah.

mike (02:39:09.611)
I like that. Yeah.

Donatello (02:39:12.015)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, especially like Cloak and Luna and like Invis, bro, fuck that.

P_tato (02:39:13.49)
Yeah, sure.

mike (02:39:17.398)
Invis too, bro. Invis

P_tato (02:39:17.981)
Bro, I swear they all look the same. I swear they all look the same, bro.

Donatello (02:39:22.521)
Yes. It it's ridiculous.

CaptainCoach (02:39:22.893)
Yeah, I wanted that in league.

P_tato (02:39:23.475)
Facts.

Death and Gaming (02:39:23.51)
I I would equip the I would equip the rogue wedding skin because of how often people would think I was a support and attack me as a tank. Like

P_tato (02:39:30.085)
No facts. You look like Sue. Bro, when Bro, genuinely, when the Emma s swimsuit come when the Emma swimsuit came out I I I thought she was like Sue or Luna. When the first time I saw her, I was like And then I dove it I get grabbed by Emma. Who what the f

Coach Mills (02:39:30.614)
Pay to win. I'm putting it in the title. Marvels is pay to win.

Donatello (02:39:30.939)
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

mike (02:39:31.267)
Bro, I've d I've done I've dove a a road, bro. Like it's yeah.

Coach Mills (02:39:41.011)
Yeah.

mike (02:39:41.146)
Bro, same, same same, same, same, bro. That was bad.

Death and Gaming (02:39:41.346)
Yeah.

CaptainCoach (02:39:46.319)
Bro, imagine how bad it was in League with now like 170 characters and now there's 20 skins for each hero.

Donatello (02:39:47.238)
No.

Donatello (02:39:51.675)
Yeah.

Coach Mills (02:39:52.311)
we're getting we're getting there. We'll get there. We'll we'll have a reunion pod of this in a year and it will be What Death, what about your character and mechanic from a different game?

P_tato (02:39:54.027)
we'll get there in like a year, no? We'll get there.

mike (02:39:55.116)
I can't wait.

Death and Gaming (02:39:57.698)
We'll get there in four more months. Like

P_tato (02:39:59.025)
No legit, we're gonna get this like really quickly.

mike (02:39:59.222)
Ha ha ha.

Donatello (02:39:59.751)
Yeah, the league was confusing actually.

CaptainCoach (02:40:02.639)
was bad.

Death and Gaming (02:40:06.222)
man, I'm I think I it would either be cool to have like Nightcrawler X twenty three, 'cause I want to have like a melee hero, like a melee DPS, but I also want to have one that's a little bit more like quick and nimble, not one that's like a tank buster or something. but I also just love Nightcrawler. I think like his his ability to like teleport and move around would be really fun because like I played when I was playing Overwatch, it was a Tracer main. So mobility and blinking. No, no, that was Tracer main for

Coach Mills (02:40:13.376)
Fuck yeah.

P_tato (02:40:23.08)
Mm.

Coach Mills (02:40:29.942)
I thought you were gonna say Life Weaver. Okay, yeah. No, it's kidding. I think you get to grab people. Yeah.

Death and Gaming (02:40:35.32)
For mo for most of my time and you know, being able to blink around and just like that ability, her ability to blink and reposition so quickly was so much fun. Right. So it's like not an ultimate ability, but literally just the blinking part would be really cool for Nightcrawler. 'cause

Coach Mills (02:40:45.125)
that could be cool for a nightcrawler actually. Just like stutter stepping places.

CaptainCoach (02:40:54.905)
That would be sick.

Coach Mills (02:40:55.626)
You could dodge a lot of things. Yeah, yeah. Well he can just teleport. So hey, you need to wa watch X-Men two. If you never seen X Men two, just watch the first three minutes of X Men two. That shit is fire. It's just a Nightcrawler scene. It's like one of the best mar like Marvel scenes ever or superhero scenes, yeah. Yeah, the White House one, yeah. It's fucking insane. Like if anyone hasn't seen that movie, it's so insane.

P_tato (02:40:55.687)
That'll be tough.

Donatello (02:40:56.06)
What does he do in the movies? He just goes behind people, right?

Death and Gaming (02:40:59.48)
Yeah. Yeah.

CaptainCoach (02:41:00.769)
Instant transmission.

Donatello (02:41:01.137)
Yeah.

P_tato (02:41:11.059)
Yeah, it's file.

CaptainCoach (02:41:12.313)
The White House one, is that? Yeah.

Death and Gaming (02:41:13.142)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

CaptainCoach (02:41:18.117)
I'm gonna go watch that.

Coach Mills (02:41:19.762)
Yeah. I'm actually gonna show my daughter X Men for the first time today actually. So it's gonna be sick. We'll see if she likes it.

Death and Gaming (02:41:25.062)
that's exciting.

CaptainCoach (02:41:25.573)
Nice, nice.

mike (02:41:25.603)
Wait, is is is X-Men the one where that where that blue lady turns to other people or is that like a different thing? Mystique? okay, okay. Yeah, I don't know her name, bro.

P_tato (02:41:25.895)
That is fire.

P_tato (02:41:30.449)
Yeah, I of course that's what this guy is thinking of, bro.

Coach Mills (02:41:30.708)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's Mystique. Yeah, that's Mystique, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Bro, you gotta you gotta watch No, n not not originally, no. Not not in the beginning movies. There was a different actress. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

CaptainCoach (02:41:30.991)
That's.

Donatello (02:41:31.43)
That's mystic.

Death and Gaming (02:41:32.162)
Yeah. Did you the blue lady? my god.

CaptainCoach (02:41:33.847)
Yeah. That's Jennifer Lawrence, bro.

mike (02:41:38.167)
I just know like like

Death and Gaming (02:41:38.382)
Jennifer Lawrence

Yeah.

CaptainCoach (02:41:45.593)
I'm just hoping they add Mildoc or Modoc so I can shitpost Coast Mills' Twitch chat when he does the unranked, celestial, eternity, one above all, Mildoc. That's my answer.

Coach Mills (02:41:47.888)
my fucking god No my my ch that's a my fucking god, bro. No it's that Yeah.

mike (02:41:48.675)
Modoc, Modoc? Yes, yes, yes, yes.

P_tato (02:41:49.677)
Modoc, my god, bro.

P_tato (02:41:58.831)
Or who who who made that who made that character, bro? Like

CaptainCoach (02:42:03.117)
Hahaha!

P_tato (02:42:05.063)
We lost our minds with that guy. From the Ant Man movie. No he does. He does look like that. He does.

mike (02:42:05.069)
He looks like that one guy from from Lava Girl and Shark Shark Boy and Lava Girl girl. You know that big guy? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Coach Mills (02:42:09.846)
That's all I Jesus Christ. well so what was yours, Captain Coach? What was your character? Like or ca or or like mechanic?

Death and Gaming (02:42:14.586)
U

CaptainCoach (02:42:21.951)
I always say the same one. I melee anchor tank Thanos with the sword. So I just pick a new one every week. I'd love that. I just do the supports every time. Just no supports on either team.

Coach Mills (02:42:26.858)
Dennis.

mike (02:42:28.377)
The snap.

P_tato (02:42:28.667)
He just snaps away half the team.

Donatello (02:42:28.668)
shit.

mike (02:42:32.438)
Ha ha ha.

P_tato (02:42:33.723)
H

Donatello (02:42:33.914)
Death and Gaming (02:42:34.604)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Coach Mills (02:42:39.498)
Yeah. I I still think like my number one mechanic is I still think Octane's jump pad from Apex, I just love the idea of just being able to like yeet an entire team, like where they shouldn't belong. Like a whole team just

CaptainCoach (02:42:39.866)
Yeah.

Donatello (02:42:49.709)
that would be sick, yeah.

P_tato (02:42:50.643)
Yeah, that'd be tough.

mike (02:42:51.959)
Is it is that like junk rat? Junkrat shift like the mind thing that

P_tato (02:42:54.353)
Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Mills (02:42:55.952)
Yeah, 'cause like i y y you they throw it on the ground and it launches everyone forward and they get a second jump. So like if it and anyone can use it, enemies and you. So like you could throw it down and you like imagine like your your Emma jumps on it and like fucking bounces into their back line. But like everybody like a whole team of six could just be flying at you, like Yeah, yeah. I my I'm my bad. It's like a

Donatello (02:42:56.077)
sh

mike (02:43:09.327)
yeah, that'd be tough actually. That'd be tough.

P_tato (02:43:14.035)
It's like a launch pad from Fortnite.

mike (02:43:16.239)
okay, I know that I know that I know that okay.

Donatello (02:43:16.336)
Yeah, literally. Literally.

P_tato (02:43:18.589)
See I had to put I had to put it in his language. I had to put it in his language.

Donatello (02:43:20.952)
CaptainCoach (02:43:21.221)
Hahaha

Death and Gaming (02:43:21.976)
Yeah.

P_tato (02:43:24.54)
I got you, Mike. I got you.

Coach Mills (02:43:25.738)
But yeah, yeah, no, that would be sick, yeah. for heroes, you know, it could like it put that on any character, but I really wanna see I really wanna see like Doc Ock though in this game. That'd be sick. Like a lot of Spider Man villains would be sick, but Doc Ock would be dope.

mike (02:43:35.95)
Yeah.

P_tato (02:43:36.349)
Hmm. Facts. Just put more villains in the game, bro. I swear. Just put more villains in the game.

mike (02:43:40.78)
I swear there's no villains, yeah, that does.

Death and Gaming (02:43:41.25)
More villains would be nice, yeah.

Coach Mills (02:43:42.3)
We need villains. Make a whole sea like season of just villains. I guess it's just two, but yeah. More yeah.

Donatello (02:43:43.259)
Yeah, true.

P_tato (02:43:46.481)
Facts. Get double a season is like double double villain release, you know what I mean?

mike (02:43:50.519)
Yeah, 'cause th weren't they gonna I feel like yeah, in the trailer didn't they show like the doomsday guy or whatever? I no, I don't know what his name is. You remember the Apocalypse? They showed Apocalypse, I was like, shit, we got a villain and then he dies from Red Hood. I was like

P_tato (02:43:56.435)
Apocalypse.

CaptainCoach (02:43:57.413)
Yeah.

Donatello (02:43:58.299)
Apocalypse, yeah.

Coach Mills (02:44:00.695)
He got killed, yeah. And and Kingsm or yeah yeah King

P_tato (02:44:01.576)
Bro, there's so many, like every Spider Man villain. It could be like like Mysterio King Kingsb yeah, well I was about to say Kingsbig Kingpin is in the game.

Coach Mills (02:44:08.01)
King kink pit kink king king Yeah, he you can actually play as him and he's not in he's not in the game. So what the fuck? but anyways, wrapping things up, I want to go first to you, Donatello. Where can people find you? Where can people support you? If they like you, they wanna they wanna see what you're all about. What what's all your socials?

Death and Gaming (02:44:08.814)
Thank you Ben.

P_tato (02:44:14.567)
Yeah.

mike (02:44:15.063)
I'm saying

Donatello (02:44:25.576)
it's just it's just a lol Donatello everywhere basically. Yeah. Twitch mainly, YouTube, then TikTok, Instagram for the the clips and the short form content.

Coach Mills (02:44:29.502)
Nice. Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

Coach Mills (02:44:38.196)
Nice. Hell yeah. Potato, where can people come support you, hang out with you?

CaptainCoach (02:44:39.141)
Hell yeah.

P_tato (02:44:42.951)
yeah, Peter T V on all platforms. I try to stream every day. It's a little bit later for NA people 'cause I'm from Australia. yeah, twitch.tv slash Peter T V and then I don't know, my link tree is there, so that's all you got that's all you need.

Coach Mills (02:44:56.924)
yeah? Nope. And Mikey, where could people find you? Where could people support you? Get you that bread?

mike (02:45:02.383)
mic's above you on every single platform, live every single day, you know, YouTube video every day, locked in. So yeah, if you wanna see some

Coach Mills (02:45:13.152)
Let's go, let's go. Death? Wh where can people come if they want to support you?

Death and Gaming (02:45:15.962)
I'm Death and Gaming on YouTube. and on Twitch, it's Death underscore and underscore gaming. I stream whenever I find time, but otherwise for the most part, I focus on making guides to help people rank up. So if people are interested in trying to, you know, easily you know, improve your game, figure out what you're missing. A lot of times all you're missing is just information. It's not even your mechanics. So if you're interested in that stuff, go ahead and check out my YouTube channel.

Coach Mills (02:45:43.126)
All right. Well thank you so much for coming by. I hope you enjoyed the video. Make sure to check out all these guys' links. It'll be in the description down below. Smash that like, subscribe, and we'll see you next time. Peace. Anyway.

CaptainCoach (02:45:44.421)
Hell yeah.

Donatello (02:45:52.744)
Peace.