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Larry Sarbit is one of Canada's best-known investors with a long-standing reputation of being a patient value investor. Darren Coleman is a respected senior portfolio manager and veteran of the North American wealth management industry. Larry and Darren are also great friends who love to get together to discuss investing. The result is Simply Sarbit!
SimplySarbit_EP 2_Nov 27-24_M
Wed, Nov 27, 2024 4:21PM • 32:46
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Warren Buffett, wonderful business, management importance, barrier to entry, predictable future, equity bond, price leaders, Magnificent Seven, Alphabet analysis, Google dominance, YouTube statistics, antitrust risk, free cash flow, trust and credibility, future investment
SPEAKERS
Darren Coleman, Larry Sarbit, Intro 2, Intro 1
Intro 1 00:01
The opinions expressed on simply Sarbit are those of Larry sarbit and Darren Coleman, and are for general information purposes only. It does not constitute any legally binding engagement between the podcasters and anyone else. Always check with your advisors to obtain your own investment advice.
Intro 2 00:24
He was 22 when he met well known mutual fund manager Larry sarbit, a disciple of Warren Buffett, a true value manager. Larry shared some core investing principles, such as buying companies with wonderful businesses that have some ability to control their prices, like Larry says, investing isn't about being mostly right. It's about not being really wrong. Today, Darren Coleman and Larry are still close friends, occasionally getting together to discuss investing. Welcome to the simply Sarbit podcast. Hi
Darren Coleman 01:01
and welcome back to another edition of simply SARbit, the podcast. My name is Darren Coleman. I'm your host for today, and again, I am joined by my good friend and legendary American equity investor Larry Sarbit. Larry, good morning.
Larry Sarbit 01:12
Good morning. You should be glad you're not in Winnipeg. It's pouring rain and cold.
Darren Coleman 01:17
Oh, you just mean today, or is that a general statement that I'm glad I'm not in Winnipeg.
Larry Sarbit 01:21
Well, let's not get into the
Darren Coleman 01:25
general it's your hometown. I love to tease you. One day.
Larry Sarbit 01:28
Everybody loves to make fun of Winnipeg.
Darren Coleman 01:31
That's very true. That's very true. Well, we're gonna today. I'm really looking forward to this conversation, because we're going to talk about an idea that came originally from Warren Buffett, and you're a big disciple of how Mr. Buffett thinks. And it's this idea that I actually think is it's almost becoming somewhat old fashioned, but it's still timeless. And I think a lot of investors don't really look at their portfolios from this perspective. And it's this idea of what is a wonderful business and what are the criteria that makes a business wonderful and Warren Buffett has been talking about this for decades, but I think it provides a really good way for us to evaluate as investors, how we're looking at the companies that we're investing in, because if we're buying into we're not just buying a stock, we're buying a stream of earnings that goes on into the future that's generated by a business. So it makes sense to me that we want to find businesses that are not great, not good, but wonderful. So if you don't mind, if you can hit the highlights of what are some of the attributes or characteristics that wonderful businesses have in common.
Larry Sarbit 02:33
You're not Darren, you. I just thought of something as you were talking. We're emphasizing businesses. We're not talking about the market. We're not talking about movement in stock prices. We're talking about individual businesses. What are the characteristics that makes them great? And one of the characteristics that I had, I used to have at the bottom of the list, if you remember, was management? Well, management has moved right to the top. When Warren Buffett goes to buy a company, he wants to know who the people are. I'll give you a quick example. He He bought a company in the 1990s in Omaha, Nebraska, known as the Nebraska Furniture Mart, and he bought it from an 80 plus year old woman named Rose blumkin, who could barely speak English, even after being in the United States from, I think, the age of 10. But she knew numbers and she knew carpet, and she built this business from nothing to one of the largest businesses. And Warren walked in her store one day and walked up to her and said, It's my birthday. I want to buy your company for my birthday. He said, How much? How much do you want? And she said, I think it was $74 million he bought it without looking at any of the financials, without asking for an audit, no lawyers involved, nothing. I'll have a check for you this afternoon. That's trust. That's the kind of thing that you're looking for in in a manager. And as Buffett says, you know the three characteristics of people in general that he looks for? First of all, they're they're intelligent, they're smart. Secondly, they're ambitious. And thirdly, they have ethics, yes. And he says, if you haven't got the last one, the other two don't matter. If you have an unethical, ambitious, smart person, you're really in big trouble. You better watch you bet. You better hope they're stupid or lazy, but, but so management is key, right?
Darren Coleman 04:55
Okay, so management is the number one. As you say, used to be at the bottom of your list. What used to be at the top of your list that's still on your list?
Larry Sarbit 05:02
Well, it's still up there. Is looking for a company that has a huge barrier to entry, or moat around the business, that prevents competitors from coming in and taking a part of your business or taking any of your business away, and it's still, you know, looking for companies that have what Buffett says are they're toll bridges. You have to pay them in order to get from one side of the river to the other. And there's no escape. This is the only bridge, or there's very few of them around.
Darren Coleman 05:41
Well, it's interesting, this idea about a moat around their businesses for a moment. You know? It's funny, because I think many businesses, many investors, they look at businesses and they may not even be aware of where the new competitor might come from. And technology is changing this dramatically. Like the biggest hotel chain in the world has no hotel rooms because it's Airbnb. So did Marriott Hotel ever think a website was going to suddenly be its biggest competitor, or that Apple Watch would now become the biggest watch provider, if it's the biggest, but certainly it's a huge player in the Watch business. I don't think Rolex ever thought Apple may now be in their backyard. So this is where having a wide X or tie backs,
Larry Sarbit 06:20
yeah, a good business, a great business, is one where you can look down the road, if you can go past three years, you're really lucky. Yeah, you know. And I always get a kick out of listening to analysts talk about the next 10 years in this business. Are you kidding? No, you know,
Darren Coleman 06:40
you can't see what's coming that far out. I
Larry Sarbit 06:42
mean, if you, if you can see three years down the road, you're a lucky guy. You're in a special place. The other characteristic, there are many, but the ones that I love are a predictable future where you can look out, if you can look out five years in a business with some degree of certainty, and what we're looking for is, is a term that Buffett came up with back in 1977 about inflation, and he used the term equity, Bond, yeah. And I love that term, yeah, because that's what you're looking for in a business. You're looking for a company that behaves like a bond, behaves where you have a predictable rate of return, a predictable payout. If you own government bonds, government treasury bills, they're going to pay, right? They're not 100% but they're as close as you're going to get. And so what you're looking for companies that have that very high degree of predictability, equity, bond. We love those kinds of companies, and they generate a lot of cash, especially excess cash. And one other idea is that if their costs go up, they can pass those additional expenses that they have to incur. They can pass them on to their customers.
Darren Coleman 08:13
Yeah, this is one of the things that I talk about is, is companies that are price leaders, that they can set the price in their industry and pass costs along. And one of the examples, I know it's not what we're going to talk about today, but one example that I think is fun is Ferrari. Like, what is a Ferrari cost? It costs whatever Ferrari tells you it costs because if you want to buy one, you have to pay the price, which is not the same for Kia or Honda or Toyota or anybody else. But Ferrari occupies that unique capability. But the reason we're going to talk about what these characteristics are is that as investors, it really matters. If you're buying a business, if you're buying a share, you're betting on a future stream of income and cash flow from that business. So the more sustainable, the more likely it is that the future is going to pay out as you hoped, the better off you're going to be as an investor. And I want to direct us today to talking about The Magnificent Seven, because that's what's really getting investors attention. The Magnificent Seven are the seven largest companies in the S and p5 100. So just for listeners, the S and p5 100 are the largest 500 companies in the United States, and incredibly, over the last couple of years, where we are today, because it's weighted by the size of the company, so the biggest company is number one, second, biggest company number two, and so on. And what's remarkable is when I think, when people look at that list of 500 companies, they say, Well, that's a well diversified index, a well diversified basket of companies. But what they may not know is the degree to which the top companies drive the bulk of the performance and the number the seven largest companies account for over 1/3 of the performance of the S and p5 100 right now. So just to give everybody the list, the companies would be alphabet, which I think we more commonly know as Google, Amazon, Apple, meta or Facebook, Microsoft, Nvidia and Tesla. Those would be the seven. And I thought, what might be fun Larry is over the next several podcasts, if you and I kind of work through your perspective on each one of those businesses through the lens of a value investor of art like let's we'll go through each one today. We'll start at the top. We'll start alphabetically with alphabet, and look at that business through the lens of this kind of buffet, like, is it a wonderful business? Does it have some of those criteria and a few others? And we'll use it as a bit of a test case. Now for listeners, this is not investment advice. We're not talking about a recommendation. We're not going to talk about current market prices. It's just a bit of an exercise of how to look at companies through this particular lens of this particular discipline. Let's just start with alphabet. How do you begin looking at alphabet as a business? Well,
Larry Sarbit 10:49
let's look at what alphabet is and what it's made up of. So I'm going, I'm going to list the big holdings that they have, right? And I'll bet your listeners know every single name. Okay, they may have heard of Google. Google Cloud is huge in this company. They may have heard of YouTube, another piece that alphabet owns. They may have heard of Android, yeah, okay, for sure, they, if they're, if they're using a computer, they've, they've heard of Chrome, yeah, Google Play to search and download games and through these other apps, Waze, which is a Little less known, but is a fantastic tool to find your way around and avoid traffic. That's my
Darren Coleman 11:45
favorite navigation app because it uses a unlike the other ones, it uses a community of other drivers to tell you, if there's something on the road, there's a car pulled over, maybe it's a police car up ahead, or a fire truck. It just has it's amazing, man,
Larry Sarbit 11:58
the end now that they probably haven't heard of. Yeah, cyber security. How important is that? Yeah, it's growing problem. And double click ad management and ad servicing solutions. Well, they're in the advertising business, aren't they? Right? So here they are. They've got a company that takes the people that are using Google to present their ideas, and then they come to double click to help them promote their ideas. You know, it's a lot of business. Just to sum up, there's so many franchises here that are so dominant in our world, will they be there five years from now? Well, as we know, the US government at this point in time, the Department of Justice is moving ahead. They're suing them for antitrust activity, and there are other divisions that want to break this company up into different pieces. That's how powerful it's become. It's,
Darren Coleman 13:04
yeah, it's an interesting risk, right? They're so big, they're so dominant, their revenue is so predictable because of that dominance. The risk them now is actually the government might think they're too big and powerful. That's an interesting wrinkle. We'll come back to that when you so let's go back through that list of attributes. So can you comment, or do you want to comment a bit on how you might look at management at Apple or not? Apple? See alphabet, sorry,
Larry Sarbit 13:27
well, the originators the Larry Page and Serge, I can't remember Sergey Brin, but they were the brains behind this thing. It doesn't run on its own, but you have an incredibly bright fellow running the company today. They are still on the board, but they're not involved in the day to day management of of all of these divisions. But
Darren Coleman 13:56
the nice thing is, the founders are still connected to it, right? If this hasn't become with some private equity thing.
Larry Sarbit 14:01
Absolutely, they're still young guys and and they're worth well over $100 billion each, but they are still there, and if problems arise, these are the guys that they will go to. When you think about let's take Google, because we started with Google, right? Google has become, it's become our source of knowledge. It's where we go. So this
Darren Coleman 14:27
is when we talk about emote around the business, right? Or barrier century. Google's lead is unbelievable in terms of search engine and knowledge, isn't it?
Larry Sarbit 14:36
It. They own over 90% of all search in the world. Isn't
Darren Coleman 14:43
that incredible. And I remember over the years, we had other competitors that we'd use, like, Ask Jeeves, Bing, Yahoo, there were a bunch of other ones, but they've all still there. But you wouldn't know it, though. I guess if you're hanging on, they're tiny,
Larry Sarbit 14:56
yeah. So when you're 90. Or 91% of all the users you're a franchise. Yeah, you you have a moat. And they started off by having a page. So when Google comes up, it's a plain page, there's no advertisements on it. Yes, it raises your level of trust that you're not filling it up with advertisements and trying to sell stuff and distracting you from what you came there for, which is to find out some information or find a company or find who knows. One in six questions that are asked of Google have never been asked before, that's amazing, the Library of Congress. It's the, you know, the Library of Alexandria, you know, over 2000 years ago, well, and
Darren Coleman 15:50
you said a couple things there that are really important when we think about other elements of creating a moat around the business, right? Or barriers to entry. So one of them is just the size and capacity, but also it, are it our thing? So it includes things like trust and credibility of the consumer. And one of the things that you'd mentioned in this idea that one in six queries are brand new, and you pointed this out to me, one of the really unique capabilities and characteristics of Google in particular is the fact that, unlike most products that deteriorate with use. The way that the search engines work is they improve with use. The more queries that go into, the more the people use it, the smarter the queries
Larry Sarbit 16:31
get, the smarter, the smarter the engine becomes, right?
Darren Coleman 16:34
So the lead that they have over all the other search engines, it's like this momentum effect. It just keeps getting better and gives the user even more trust and credibility, because I know when I go to search, I'm more likely to get the right answer I want with Google than anybody else, so I'll just keep using them, and that creates this positive reinforcing behavior among the consumer. And it's also interesting, as you mentioned, they haven't changed the white page of Google, so I know when I go on there, I'm not going to get advertisements and I will when my search results, because that's how they get paid, but I know when I go on it, I have this appearance of this is just me and that search engine. There's nothing else interfering with it may not actually be true, but that's the experience I get as a user.
Larry Sarbit 17:13
It's a clean page. They're not trying to stuff anything down your throat, but I think the key word with Google is trust. People trust the answers, and it's become a utility. It's not a business anymore. It's like your electricity in your house. You rely on it, right? Somebody asks you something and you don't know the answer. What do you say? Well, why don't you Google it, right? So it's become a verb, which is good, and I guess has some disadvantages too. They want to maintain that corporate identity, but Google has become a trusted verb,
Darren Coleman 17:55
and that'll well, that aligns to the other businesses within alphabet, right? So YouTube, for example, if I want to get the if I want to search for something, my belief as a consumer is Google's going to give me the best answer first, so that's the one I'll use. And because of that, it keeps getting smarter. If I want to launch something on YouTube and I want people to see it, there are other platforms where I can put my video, but I know if I put it on YouTube, more people are going to see it there than anywhere else. So that, again, creates a positive reinforcing so back to predictability and visibility of the business. These are leads that are like leadership that those businesses within alphabet have, that I don't see anybody else even on the horizon that's going to be able to take that leadership away. It's not impossible.
Larry Sarbit 18:42
Nobody even close. When you when you think about where we were 20 years ago, even, which is not that long ago, people were still mainly watching television to get their information. They're going to YouTube. Yeah. I mean, the stats on YouTube are absolutely staggering. So yeah, go over some
Darren Coleman 19:01
of these, because it really is shocking when you actually look at some of the data. And this number, by the way, the numbers we're going to share as of now, in six months, there'll be more. Well,
Larry Sarbit 19:09
this is as of 2023 they had over 2.5 billion. That's with a B, monthly active users, and between 2006 with 20 million users, there now a two and a half billion. That for sure, is has increased since these numbers were produced the ad revenue. Remember, they're in this to make money. The ad revenues continues to grow, a double digit clip, 2024 revenue of $8.6 billion and that's up 13% second quarter over second quarter. And we'll see what they are for the end of the year or for the end of the quarter. Order. They're in over 100 countries, in 80 different languages, 12,000 hours of video content is uploaded daily. 12,000 hours. I mean, who can watch all that? 500 hours of video content uploaded to YouTube every single minute, unbelievable. So it's such an incredibly dominant force, and it's, it's the go to, it's where I go to get entertainments or or I pay for Netflix if I want to watch
Darren Coleman 20:35
right? But I think increasingly people watch as much or more YouTube than they do television or anything else now, oh,
Larry Sarbit 20:41
way more than broadcast television, not even close anymore. And in
Darren Coleman 20:46
terms of the numbers for the business, one of the other things is interesting is there's obviously a cost to provide this level of, you know, data, storage and functionality to users, but the profit margin for alphabet is still very strong. If you think about like a grocery store or something like a traditional bricks and mortar business, they're trying to eke out profit margins that are in the single digits, if they're lucky, like, you know, Loblaws, or whatever, they're trying to fight it out to try and get, you know, three to 8% profit margin. What does the profit margin look like with all this revenue coming in the door, all this cash coming in the door? The profit margin of alphabet is what it's almost 30% isn't it? Well,
Larry Sarbit 21:23
first of all, the revenues are 2023 so we don't have 2024 they'll be up or about $307 billion in 2023 income was up 23% in 2023 EPS was earnings per share were up 27% and the free cash flow, it was 69 almost $70 billion so your yield, Your free cash flow, yield on the revenue was 22.7% that's astronomically high, and you're right. Like grocery store. I grew up in a grocery store. My dad was making a, you know, a penny here and a nickel layer, and his margins were, were not exciting, but the margins here are absolutely extraordinary, and businesses keep will continue to come to YouTube as the place to present their product right now, there are others. Sure, there's X, which was Twitter, there's
Darren Coleman 22:36
well there that's true, there's Snapchat and other things, right?
Larry Sarbit 22:40
But will they overcome Google? Remains to be seen. I think for the next three to five years, they will continue to be the place to go, to view entertainment, to view information, to find how to put a screw in a door, which I don't know how to do it, you know,
Darren Coleman 23:03
but you're right. You want to do anything now, I don't know, but you but I, right away go to YouTube to figure out, how do I do that? And not only was there, like if you want to put a pipe and a drain or there's not just one video, probably 19 of them that someone shot to show you how to do it. So it has become, as you say, our store of knowledge and the trust and credibility we have in that and things like Waze, I use that one over even Google Maps. I don't use it as much as Waze to get around. I just know Waze is going to probably find me the best way to get there, because it's not going to give me the live traffic is to tell me what other drivers are doing, so as long as they continue on that trend. And that's back to management, as we talked about all of the different companies we've looked at, they've all got that, I would say that commonality of trust and credibility and having the user involved so the user doesn't feel a need to go to any competitor, because this one is still the best of the bunch, right?
Larry Sarbit 23:54
Let's just talk briefly about about Google. Yeah, the stats for Google, again, they're they're mind boggling on Googlers, 22 billion searches per day. I mean, can you even conceive that 22 billion a day, which is 255,000 every second, its market shares, as we were talking about, is about 91, and a half percent of all search search engines. And as you said, there are others like ask, geez, Bing, there's Overture, which I've, I've never heard of, Yahoo, I think has about one, maybe one and a half percent of the market. The rest of it is all Google. So just the sheer volume and that allows Google to learn and gather more information about you as a consumer. Well,
Darren Coleman 24:52
you made the point that Google knows more about you than you said to me that you said we can find in Google at a level and frequency that would scare off. A friend, no matter how understanding that they were, the questions we asked Google, I don't think you'd ask your friends these questions exactly,
Larry Sarbit 25:06
but in the quiet and piece of of you and your mobile phone or your computer, you can ask some pretty embarrassing questions, I suppose, of the 22 billion God well, but
Darren Coleman 25:22
actually, but on that, you actually made another point, which was interesting about again, back to creating trust. Google can actually banish people from their search site if they believe that it's incorrect or it's not appropriate. There were those things like they're trying, yeah, the rip off sites, usury, white supremacy, like that kind of stuff. Google at least provides some, not a lot, but at least some protection, as it were, or some fences that if you fall outside of this, we're not going to
Larry Sarbit 25:51
let you play their dominance is, is a little frightening, actually, for a private company, they know all about you. They know your thoughts. They know your intentions.
Darren Coleman 26:04
So if we go back to that criteria of a wonderful business, so we can kind of check a lot of boxes here, the founders are still there. Management looks to still be doing excellent work. There's a very clear moat around each one of the businesses. The barriers to entry to compete with Google are I can't even imagine how someone can come out. There will be somebody, probably, but it's almost impossible with this. When we look at the volume and the numbers, technology,
Larry Sarbit 26:29
technology is unpredictable. Android, so they own Android, yeah, 70, about almost 72% of the entire global market in mobile phones. Wow, 3.3 billion users worldwide use Android. And when you
Darren Coleman 26:49
and I get to talk about Apple, be interested to compare the Android experience as an investor to the Apple experience with intelligence. We'll get to that another call. But I think from our perspective, the when we look at alphabet and all the component businesses of alphabet, it really does fit the criteria of it being a wonderful business. Would you agree with that?
Larry Sarbit 27:11
I think so you can go down the list of the companies that they own and manage, and with each one, it's like they hand picked the best of the best to be in where there's growth and where there can be more revenue, more advertising, more revenue, more sale of product. And they're complimentary. They don't compete with each other. They interact. That's right, you're on Android, and what are you? What are you using as your search engine,
Intro 1 27:42
Google? What
Larry Sarbit 27:43
is that? And
Darren Coleman 27:45
again, back to the math. The volume of capital they they have and the earnings that they have just also creates even more capability for them to protect themselves, to acquire competitors, and just to keep this party going. That's
Larry Sarbit 27:57
right, when you're generating whether they say free cash flow of, you know, $70 billion Wow. You can go out and buy what's up and coming. You can maintain that, that lead in the whole game. And that's why the government is worried. Yep, that's what scares the hell out of out of the government. They're a little late to the game, but they are a bit late.
Darren Coleman 28:22
But when we get to meta, that's something Zuckerberg has done, is he's bought businesses just to shelve them and kill them off. That's right, because that is perceived as anti competitive to everybody else. So this is actually a really important point too, that as investors, we have to look at all the positives. And when you get a juggernaut like Google, the risks now are likely not going to come from another corporation now they're going to come from government. So there's no free lunch at investing, right? So even though we find a wonderful business, we still, as investors have to say, well, the momentum is fantastic, but that may, in itself create its own level of risk that I'd have to figure out. What do I do with? Right?
Larry Sarbit 28:57
We'll see how long it takes the government to go through this alphabet will fight this tooth and nail? Well, Microsoft
Darren Coleman 29:06
already went through this years ago with antitrust, right? So this isn't the first time we've had a large company go through this risk and come out of it actually stronger, paradoxically, unbelievable.
Larry Sarbit 29:16
We could talk hours about Microsoft. That's
Darren Coleman 29:20
we are actually, that's gonna be another podcast for everybody.
Larry Sarbit 29:22
Does that? Does everybody use Word? Does everybody like it or not? Their operating system is the Microsoft System? Do you use Microsoft Cloud? I mean, it's just, it's a monster. Well,
Darren Coleman 29:36
it's just that we're gonna Microsoft's a really when we and I talk about that, one, that's a really interesting one, because very different user experience, I would argue, to Apple and Google, yet also dominant. So just to set the table, we're going to go through for the listeners. We're going to take the same idea, the same analysis, the same perspective, and we're going to go through each one of the Magnificent Seven together. And just because those are where investors are playing. Those are far and away the most dominant stocks that investors are trading individually. They're the biggest movers and drivers of the S and p5 100. They're called The Magnificent Seven, for a reason. And then we'll kind of go through those seven, just to get the listeners a path where we're headed. We're going to go through those Magnificent Seven, and then once we're done with those, I think it would be fun to go back and say, well, this dominance of these companies. We've seen this movie before. So what happened in like 2000 what happened in other eras where a certain category of businesses were dominant? How sustainable did that turn out to be? So we'll look at other booms and other busts and see what else we can take away as investors. Because you can't just set this and forget it. You can't just buy and go away. You do have to keep paying attention to these things. No
Larry Sarbit 30:46
one example is IBM, which used to be in the 1950s and 60s, and I think even in the 70s, was the computer company to own. Right. The old saying was, you bought IBM and you put it away, you just forget about it, right? And you give it to your grandchild, right? That ain't, that's not what happened, no? And we'll also, at
Darren Coleman 31:08
some point, we'll talk about like we have The Magnificent Seven. Now, at some point, we'll compare that to the Nifty 50. These are very cute marketing terms of people coming up with, but we'll kind of take people on a little bit of journey from history, because, as we know, the one thing we learn from history is that people don't learn from history. From history. So I think what we'll do is we'll take some time and apply these Timeless Lessons to help investors make better decisions today.
Larry Sarbit 31:30
That's that's our goal, hopefully, hopefully we'll get, we'll get through to a few people and
Darren Coleman 31:35
with you as our guide. So Larry, thank you very much for today. So I think we've agreed Google or alphabet does meet the criteria for wonderful business, whether investors should buy it or not, is a whole other conversation, but at least we know it's one that might be, or ought to be on their radar. And certainly it is, because it's big part of the S, p5, 100. So there you go. So Larry, thank you for today. I think our next one we're going to dig in is Amazon. A lot of parallels, actually, so that'll be a fun conversation for the next edition of simply sarbit
Larry Sarbit 32:04
absolutely there. We can pick any one of them.
Darren Coleman 32:07
I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna go alphabetically, and we're gonna go alphabet, Amazon, Apple, meta, Microsoft, Nvidia, and we'll finish with Tesla sounds great. Thanks everyone for listening. It was fun, and we'll see you on the next one. Thanks. Larry, take care.
Larry Sarbit 32:20
Thank you, Darren.
32:23
This has been simply Sarbit with Larry sarbit and Darren Coleman, thanks for listening. If you have any questions or comments or ideas for new episodes, send us an email at simplysarbit@gmail.com and you can find the simply Sarbit podcast on Facebook X and LinkedIn. This series is a production of the Acme podcasting company.