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The Space Between is the podcast where strength and vulnerability meet for families navigating life with cancer.
Hosted by Amri Kibbler, a cancer survivor and parent, each episode offers honest stories, expert insights, and heartfelt support for those balancing treatment, caregiving, and parenting - often all at once.
If you're walking this path, you’re not alone. This is your space to feel seen, find connection, and heal.
[00:00:00] Elissa Kalver: I know that a lot of people, sometimes it's like they don't wanna get things checked out 'cause they're afraid if it was something bad. The sooner that we figure it out, the better. If you have a gut feeling or something, act on it because it might not be as big of the the worst case scenario as you think.
[00:00:19] Amri Kibbler: Hi, I am Amri Kibbler, and this is The Space Between. I'm a cancer survivor and a mom, and while those roles don't define me, they have shaped who I am. I created this space to share honest stories, expert insights, and meaningful support for families navigating life with cancer. If you're balancing treatment, caregiving, parenting, or just trying to hold it all together, you are not alone.
[00:00:42] Amri Kibbler: This is your space to connect, to heal, and to feel seen, and I'm so glad that you're here. We are talking to Elissa Kalver. She is a metastatic breast cancer thriver. She was diagnosed when her daughter was less than a year old, and she is the founder of WeGotThis.org and her new book. We Got This: How I Learned to Thrive with Terminal Cancer is just out.
[00:01:08] Amri Kibbler: Let's get started. Elissa, thank you so much for being on The Space Between. I'm so excited to have you on today. I have really enjoyed getting to know you a little bit and. I just freaking love your energy on your Instagram all the time, like just showing up, like sharing what's going on, helping people, sharing your information.
[00:01:31] Amri Kibbler: And so I am just like so thrilled to have you here 'cause I know that we're gonna have some fun even though. We're talking about cancer because we are still living our best life, and that is why you are a total rockstar and an inspiration. So thanks for being here.
[00:01:50] Elissa Kalver: Oh, thank you. And the feeling's very mutual.
[00:01:52] Elissa Kalver: So I'm excited to be here and appreciate all you do. Thank you.
[00:01:57] Amri Kibbler: Our listeners didn't get to hear this, but we had a funny joke before we started recording. Um, and will you share your cancer reveal story with us?
[00:02:07] Elissa Kalver: Yes. And what I loved most that came outta this is we were saying like gender reveal or things like that.
[00:02:12] Elissa Kalver: And I was saying that if it was, you know, a confetti instead of blue or pink, it would be my husband's hands. You know, because luckily one morning when I was getting dressed, my husband just like jokingly copped a feel and felt a lump in my breast. And what's so interesting about that is it wasn't like I hadn't had anything that I had explored before I did, I, I was feeling off just nowhere near my breast.
[00:02:35] Elissa Kalver: It was like my feet were going numb or other kinds of symptoms. Then I'd already been seeing a lot of specialists and just doing all the workups. So I had had a. Breast exam just two months prior. And even now, like from experiencing recurrences, in times when I know that there's a lump in my breasts, like I've had multiple recurrences being metastatic and all of that, there are certain times of the month or times a day or different things where like I can't feel it.
[00:03:03] Elissa Kalver: And then there are other times where it feels huge, you know, I don't currently have it, but like I had a recurrence the end of last year. And I ended up having like a fist sized tumor grow back in my breast. And there were literally days where I couldn't really feel it and I'd be like, oh, I think it's actually shrinking.
[00:03:19] Elissa Kalver: Maybe it's not growing. And then the next day you'd feel like a golf ball. A lot of that can really change. And luckily, uh, my husband and I love each other and, and, uh, he was present. So, yeah, I think, have you told yours on this before? 'cause I think it, it deserves telling. I never,
[00:03:36] Amri Kibbler: I don't think I've ever told mine, so I will share it.
[00:03:39] Amri Kibbler: It is actually funny when you look at it in hindsight. So beginning of the pandemic, we moved upstate and like every cancer cliche moving upstate New York story, we got chickens and they were little baby chickens. And my then 3-year-old. Wanted to play with them all the time. So she apparently was playing with them on the dining room table when I didn't know, and they must have pooped on the dining room table.
[00:04:05] Amri Kibbler: And I ended up getting, salmonella was not pretty, but the salmonella irritated or triggered something in my cancer that it started bleeding. And so that started rectal bleeding, which is a sign that you can't ignore. And so that was what really prompted me. To seek medical attention and to continue to advocate for getting help because for months and months, doctors continued to tell me that there was nothing wrong with me, that it was probably hemorrhoids or IVS or something else, but it was really the chickens in the beginning that the chickens probably saved my life because I may not have ever had bleeding, and I may not have ever.
[00:04:47] Amri Kibbler: Had symptoms. 'cause colorectal cancer a lot of times has no symptoms. That's why it's like, could be a secret killer. So thank you chickens for your salvation. And my reveal would be little chicken confetti coming out. Thank you chickens.
[00:05:01] Elissa Kalver: I love it. I love it. I mean, I hate it. I hate that's the case, but if it's gonna be there, we've gotta.
[00:05:07] Elissa Kalver: Who better to identify it than chickens? Like really? I know
[00:05:11] Amri Kibbler: they're cute little baby fluffy chickens. Thank you.
[00:05:14] Elissa Kalver: Yeah, I was saying that's one of the best cancer, you know, discovery stories and it, it's wholesome in its own way. So thank you for sharing that. I'm glad we kicked off with those. Yeah.
[00:05:24] Amri Kibbler: And just in case anyone doesn't know what is metastatic breast cancer.
[00:05:28] Elissa Kalver: Sure. So I didn't know what the word metastatic meant before having it myself. And it, it's, it's basically interchangeable with stage four as we know it, and. What it really means is that when the cancer spreads far away from the origin site, so in my case where it's breast cancer, when I was diagnosed what's called de novo, so meaning that I was metastatic off the bat or stage four, it had already spread to my lymph nodes, but then far away to my liver and my lower spine.
[00:05:57] Elissa Kalver: And so that's what really pushes it over from maybe being stage two or three to being stage four. That can happen de novo, like it was right off the bat with me. I was diagnosed at 34 with no family history. And then it can also, unfortunately happen in recurrences. But a big thing that I like to talk about and bring awareness to is that even though it's so scary that like at such a young age you can get such progressed cancer, you know, a lot of people always say like, oh, well you've caught it early.
[00:06:26] Elissa Kalver: Right? And it's like, yeah, no, but, but luckily there are a lot of advancements in treatments and the ability to live with it is pretty amazing and it's different for all of us. We have different types, different points of treatment. There's chemos that have worked really great for me that. Haven't worked for other people I know.
[00:06:46] Elissa Kalver: And vice versa. You know, everyone is really unique and the idea of, of me stasis or metastatic cancer is really its own thing. Like, you know, just like there's not one type of breast cancer or one type of colorectal cancer, we're all a little unique and different. And so it's, it's, it's more than I ever thought I would know about it.
[00:07:07] Elissa Kalver: But it's, it's important and I appreciate you asking 'cause I think it's important for people to understand what it is. It's not like I have liver cancer. Or, you know, bone cancer, I have breast cancer that spread to those areas.
[00:07:20] Amri Kibbler: Thank you for that. And when I was first diagnosed, I was very confused about all of that as well.
[00:07:25] Amri Kibbler: It, it says a lot of information, a lot of things we never wanted to know that we, we become experts on. I wanted to ask you, you were a new mom when you were diagnosed, and I've heard from. Many new moms that when they're trying to get care, lots of things get blamed on postpartum and that experience. Can you share a little bit about your experience in getting diagnosed as a new mom and what that was like for you?
[00:07:54] Elissa Kalver: Absolutely. And. Yeah, unfortunately I did have a, a bit of that experience, uh, especially because my symptoms, like, I, like I was saying, they were very far away from where the problem actually ended up being. So after I had my daughter, you know, normal postpartum stuff, I had a a c-section and all of that recovering, I recovered really well and felt good.
[00:08:17] Elissa Kalver: And then it was, you know, a few months after that I was starting to play tennis again and some other things and I'd be like on the, the tennis court for like 20, 30 minutes when I like couldn't keep my shoes on anymore 'cause my feet were getting so numb and swollen. I thought it was plantar fasciitis. I was like doing physical therapy, I was doing massages and nothing was making it better.
[00:08:41] Elissa Kalver: And so that's when I started, you know, going to the doctors, getting specialists. I went to a rheumatologist. I, you know, even went to my ob, you know, and, and did all that. Not that I thought it was breast cancer or something gynecological. I just was like, wow, we're at it. Let's just make sure I'm all good.
[00:08:58] Elissa Kalver: Going through pregnancy and having a child is, is a lot, as you know, moms know, and I just wanted to make sure my body was. Was Okay. And when nothing popped up, you know, I still kind of had in the back of my mind that something was off, but I had kind of crossed off a lot of the things and I never would've thought it was cancer.
[00:09:17] Elissa Kalver: I mean, you know, it's not like what I would jump to from thinking I had plantar fasciitis.
[00:09:22] Amri Kibbler: Yeah.
[00:09:22] Elissa Kalver: And so. Well, I did get dismissed in that way a bit, you know, depending on the doctor, you know, saying things like, well, you had a baby, and like, it usually takes over a year for your body to snap back and for these things to, to feel better.
[00:09:37] Elissa Kalver: As soon as, as Eric, my husband did find my lump, I. It was taken very seriously and it, it, it moved very fast. So what normally as a 34 year olds would be hard to get approved for a mammogram or something like that without history or any reason, you know, immediately the next day I was able to get a mammogram and ultrasound, and that's when they did the biopsies and it turned out it was malignant and then it was the PET scan where I found out that it was metastatic.
[00:10:08] Amri Kibbler: You always know you need to worry when they're like, oh, um, you know, we can s squeeze you in tomorrow. That happened to me when I went to see the colorectal surgeon finally after like 10 months and was explaining my symptoms to him and he was like, you know, I think that I could move some things around and do you think you can come in tomorrow?
[00:10:27] Amri Kibbler: And I, I was like, okay, that should have been a red flag to me. But I was like, oh yeah, sure. Well, he's so.
[00:10:34] Elissa Kalver: In hindsight, I always say that like there are certain things where I now I'm like, oh, I should've known, you know, but how, how do you know? I've never been through it, and I'm so grateful that I was so naive.
[00:10:46] Elissa Kalver: I. Like I really just, oh, me too, right? Like I had the extra couple weeks of tests and waiting on results, you know, 'cause biopsies aren't fast. So even though like the mammogram and ultrasound is quick, but like you have to get the biopsies done. It takes time in the lab to figure that all out and you know, these things.
[00:11:04] Elissa Kalver: But I'm glad that I had the extra couple of weeks of not thinking I had cancer 'cause. Yeah. In hindsight, even though I do very much have cancer, it wouldn't have changed anything and it's easier said than done. It was easier for me to do because I, it was so authentically, I really did not think that was the issue, but it.
[00:11:25] Elissa Kalver: Uh, you know, at least I, I wasn't, uh, stressing out over it for this inevitable outcome that it was anyway. Uh, and then when it did happen, obviously it was a huge shock, but having all the information made it, at least that I could like, start finding out what's next. Whereas, had I had in my mind, oh my God, I think I have breast cancer for the weeks leading up to it, I mean.
[00:11:49] Elissa Kalver: I still didn't know what the different things like hormone positive or HER two positive, these different types of breast cancer. I didn't know what any of that meant. Or other indications like, would I need chemo? Would it be surgery, would it be both? And having the shock at least during a time where I could get some of those answers where we already did a lot of the tests.
[00:12:10] Elissa Kalver: I think in the, the crevices of where you're grateful, like that was one of the areas that I was grateful for.
[00:12:18] Amri Kibbler: Yeah, definitely the waiting for the test to come back is always the worst, and it does, it seems like it just takes forever. So I'm glad that at least you, you weren't waiting for those tests in, in that time.
[00:12:30] Elissa Kalver: Well, it's funny 'cause I, I did have to wait a little bit longer for the PET scan 'cause of it being, it was worth a July weekend. And I was anxious be simply because I knew that the PET scan needed to be done before I could schedule chemo. So I wasn't anxious. 'cause like again, I didn't know that it could get much worse.
[00:12:48] Elissa Kalver: I guess theoretically I did. Right? I knew that cancers can spread and all that, but that again was not on my mind like, no, it was not on.
[00:12:54] Amri Kibbler: Yeah.
[00:12:55] Elissa Kalver: You know, we must have caught this early. How. You know, how could this, of course you're
[00:12:59] Amri Kibbler: young, you must have caught it early. Must have.
[00:13:01] Elissa Kalver: Yeah. You know, and that's where, uh, it was, it's, I didn't have skin anxiety at the time, like I didn't have the knowledge to be scared of the PET scan yet.
[00:13:14] Elissa Kalver: And so again, naive, Elissa, I'm grateful for, and uh, and I learned a lot from there. And. I do feel like, and, and I try to really advocate for this a lot, is I know that a lot of people sometimes it's like they don't wanna get things checked out 'cause they're afraid if it was something bad. And when you think about like, finding out that it is, it is kind of the most progressed, it could be.
[00:13:37] Elissa Kalver: It's, you know, I've had. Uh, growth in my brain a year later that is now full response and under control. Like, it can get bad and there are solutions, and the sooner that we figure it out, the better. You know, if you have a gut feeling or something, act on it because it might not be as big of the, the worst case scenario as you think.
[00:13:59] Elissa Kalver: Yeah,
[00:14:00] Amri Kibbler: definitely. And thankfully there are so many treatment options and innovations now, so you do wanna find out, you wanna know whatever your scenario is as soon as possible and get all the information so you can go right into action. I wanna talk to you about your daughter. You were a new mom when you were diagnosed.
[00:14:19] Amri Kibbler: And she was of course too little to understand at that point, but you had some really interesting thoughts on the way you communicate with her about your diagnosis and your life, and I'd love to have you share that. Oh,
[00:14:32] Elissa Kalver: thanks. Yeah, my daughter, Ellie, she was turning one when I was diagnosed and she's about to turn five.
[00:14:39] Elissa Kalver: So it's pretty wild and it's really changed a lot throughout the years of how we've handled that. Based on her age, like when she's one, you know, there's nothing to explain to her. But there's physical changes happening and you know, me needing to rest more and things like that. And at that age, we found that some of our biggest fears, like her being afraid of me if I'm bald and all these things in our case, didn't end up being an issue.
[00:15:04] Elissa Kalver: Like when I did end up shaving my head, I. I came home and she was like laughing and giggling and petting it and like, thought it was like funny, you know, and fun and, and I have a picture of her just like resting her head on mine. And then kind of after that initial day, it wasn't really a thing. And now that she's older to like understand things, you know, and she doesn't understand everything.
[00:15:26] Elissa Kalver: We're very open about cancer, but. We don't drill home that I'm like sick or you know, we don't talk about like necessarily that I could die. Like we kind of sprinkle it in through different things, you know, and, and talk about death and other stuff as it relates to all of us in life. But what was interesting is this was several months ago, we were just on our way home from school and I parked in front of the house and she said to me, she said, mommy.
[00:15:51] Elissa Kalver: I don't like when you didn't have hair. I really like your hair now. I like when it's long. It's, and it's beautiful like a princess. And I thought that was so interesting that she like even thought of that. I was like, what made you think of that? Like, did a picture pop up? Or you know, something and she's just like, I don't know.
[00:16:09] Elissa Kalver: I just thought of it and I really love your hair and how long it's getting. And, um, so I pulled up on my phone, the video of her laughing and petting my head and I was like, just so you know, like, you probably don't remember this, but like you had a lot of fun, you know, with, with my head when it was shaved and, you know, it made it a good conversation where it's like, yeah, you know, a lot of us do probably feel like we'd rather have hair, but embracing the, the moments that I don't know when I switch chemos if I'm gonna lose my hair or not, you know?
[00:16:39] Elissa Kalver: And I most recently switched in the new year and. Uh, this one doesn't commonly cause hair loss and I haven't experienced any luckily, but if it did, you know, I'd still need to be on it and we'd need to go through that. So I try to kind of preface as much as I can and give her as much knowledge as I can.
[00:16:56] Elissa Kalver: I. And there's no perfect recipe, and I follow as many things that I find helpful in, in that. Books have been really helpful in just talking to other moms and you know, not even just cancer moms, like just being a mom in general. You know, these scenarios, as I'm sure you know, it's like. It pops up about all sorts of things, not just cancer.
[00:17:18] Elissa Kalver: It can be much smaller scale or bigger if we lose people. Or the other night, uh, I was tucking her in and she started understanding the concept of death when she learned about presidents, which I thought was so interesting because she'd be like. She learned about George Washington and she's like, can we visit George Washington?
[00:17:38] Elissa Kalver: And I was like, well, no, he is. You know, he's not alive anymore. He is. He'd be very, very old. And that concept didn't trigger her to think about my cancer. It was actually the other night I was cuddling with her at bedtime and she just started crying. And I was like, is everything okay? And she's like, well, daddy's hair is getting a little gray.
[00:17:58] Elissa Kalver: And he told me it's because he's getting older and I don't want daddy to die. And it was so interesting, like being a mom with cancer and being so worried all the time that you're gonna have to explain these things to your daughter. And then she's upset because of, you know, my husband's silver fox ness coming in in a totally different direction.
[00:18:19] Elissa Kalver: And so it really, it keeps you on your toes and they're just, they're so much smarter than I would ever imagine at the ages that they are.
[00:18:28] Amri Kibbler: They are so much smarter and they're very intuitive. It's also interesting that you're the one that has the cancer and she's bringing up your husband because that is a normal thing.
[00:18:39] Amri Kibbler: It's a question that every kid asks. Like, I remember, you know, my kids being at that age when they're like, mommy, are you gonna die? And I was like, someday, yeah, someday everybody's gonna die. Someday you're gonna die. Mm-hmm. And their reaction to that and the conversations, and it's just a natural conversation that you end up having to have.
[00:18:59] Amri Kibbler: But your, your conversation is a little bit different 'cause you're including in the cancer element to it too as well. And then you're continuing to just be open and honest with her about what's happening in your treatment and. I, I mean I made the opposite choice with my kids that I regret, you know? And you like look back and you're like, whoa, wish I could go back and do that different when I had an ostomy for four months and I decided that it was only gonna be four months and I.
[00:19:28] Amri Kibbler: I was just not gonna tell my kids because I just thought there was gonna be this whole bad reaction from the younger one and ended up like, you know, I was like trying to hide it in the bathroom and all these things, and like afterward I was like, what? Why wasn't I just more open with them about it now I feel like.
[00:19:46] Amri Kibbler: It's best just to like be as open in a way that their age group can understand. And like hiding things just makes it more difficult. 'cause it like brings in the fear factor and they, the kids can feel your fear. 'cause then you're afraid they're gonna find out and they're gonna see the truth. And honestly, the truth usually ends up being better than however we, we may put it.
[00:20:06] Amri Kibbler: So there's my, my blooper there.
[00:20:10] Elissa Kalver: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that's a lot of, just like in life, we, we meet ourselves where we're at and you know, at that point that's what felt right And I think that hopefully it's, it's not scenarios you, you have to do again. And it's like we, we can only put our best foot forward in anything, you know, as humans and parents and all these things.
[00:20:31] Elissa Kalver: And, uh, at the end of the day I think that we figure it out. Like what? And that's interesting what you said of 'cause it is true sometimes that the fear saying that we project could actually spiral them into thinking things are much worse than they are. Sometimes it just like, um, being afraid to get scanned or checked out 'cause you're worried about the result.
[00:20:50] Elissa Kalver: Like, a lot of times that buildup of anxiety and fear can be worse than the actual. Result, or I don't know, I'm trying to think of another word a hundred percent your,
[00:20:59] Amri Kibbler: it's your fear about your kids' reaction, your fear about what's gonna come back on the test. 'cause no matter what you get back, when you hear the truth or what the answer is, then you can deal with it and the fear kind of goes away, even if it's not the.
[00:21:12] Amri Kibbler: Result you want. You still like a weird way, sort of feel better 'cause you're a little bit relieved that you're not waiting. There. I teamed up with Stacy Igel and Elyse Ryan to create S.E.A. Waves of Support: healing selenite bracelet sets. You keep one and gift the other to someone facing cancer or life's challenges. A powerful reminder, they're not alone. Learn more at seawavesofsupport.com. I wanna talk a little bit more about parenting in cancer. Without a cancer diagnosis, being a mom is a lot. In my previous life, I founded a community of working moms called, Hey Mama. I've heard from so many moms in every different way.
[00:21:52] Amri Kibbler: It's just a lot to kind of get through life and motherhood and all those things, and then to throw a cancer diagnosis on top of it and ongoing treatment and all of that, it's like it's a superhuman lot. How do you manage on days when things are particularly tough, um, and you're not feeling like you have a lot of energy to, to still hold space for being a parent?
[00:22:15] Elissa Kalver: It's hard. And of course there's feelings of guilt and other things that come with that. And it has helped me to be as upfront as possible. You know, I talk more openly about, like, Ellie really wanted me to run around outside with her yesterday, and it was like 90 degrees here in la So like, even if I didn't have chemo last week, I still, it would've been hard for anyone.
[00:22:39] Elissa Kalver: And so, you know, being able to like, allow yourself to just say like, remember mommy had chemo last week, and like, if we can do an art project or, you know, watch thing together, but if you wanna play outside, can we grab daddy and, and he'll run around with you. And there's definitely those times where on her end it's like, well no, I don't want daddy to do it.
[00:22:58] Elissa Kalver: I want you to do it and, and these things. But I think that the more that I normalize it and make it not something that I'm. Like ashamed of then she, she feels that and knows that like, I'm okay. I just, it's hard for me to do certain things at certain times and, um, having those reminders is tough and I'm like still working on it for sure.
[00:23:22] Elissa Kalver: And it's like, each year, especially in this toddler phase is so different with what they understand and what they're doing. And, uh, it was about six months ago that someone in, in her class, her dad got diagnosed with leukemia. And so the teacher let us know, and they've been really great at like, the girls actually become close and they do extra artwork for us.
[00:23:44] Elissa Kalver: So like I get this like special card every day from Ellie and it's not like she's doing it with this understanding like, oh, I could lose my mom. Like, it was just kind of, they related it like. Of adding something special for what we're going through. But when I heard about the girl's dad going through leukemia and chemo, that really opened my eyes to the fact that like, I can't control when Ellie learns about someone's grandparent or parent or someone dying of cancer, or if someone else shows up bald.
[00:24:16] Elissa Kalver: And then she may recognize that like, wait, my mom used to be bald. Why are they bald? So I don't want her to. Put these pieces together blindly. Like I don't want her to know the know cancer, know these things just around being sick and dying. And so I think the more that I let her know that I'm living with it and her seeing these things that we do.
[00:24:36] Elissa Kalver: We were on a cruise a couple weeks ago and you know that, yeah, I can't go run around outside every day with you, but I still do go and run outside with you. Those are the pieces that are most important for me, that she also knows cancer by living. Yeah.
[00:24:50] Amri Kibbler: And she also sees you being so full of life, so passionate, heading off to Las Vegas, like you have a book that's out or coming out.
[00:25:01] Amri Kibbler: Coming out. You're speaking so many things, so she sees you like living your life to the fullest.
[00:25:09] Elissa Kalver: Thank you. I really appreciate that. And. It's so adorable, like with the book. So the dedication, uh, is, is to a couple people and the first one is to her. And whenever someone's over, I've given someone the book and she's there.
[00:25:23] Elissa Kalver: She always runs over and she's like, mommy, mommy, did you show them my name in the book? You know? And so she feels ownership of it. And when she sees the, We Got This logo or the W or anything that says We Got This, she now knows what that looks like and she'll look at it and go. Cancer sucks. We Got This.
[00:25:41] Elissa Kalver: And I love that she feels empowered by it and like ownership of it. And that's a big piece. And that's what I said in the dedication to the book, is that I want her to always know, even if I lived to be a hundred, like I just want her to always know that I lived fully and more because of her. And I think, you know, having people in our lives that we feel that way about it is, is really special.
[00:26:03] Elissa Kalver: And I'm grateful that I, that I have that.
[00:26:06] Amri Kibbler: That is so special. And is the book out now?
[00:26:09] Elissa Kalver: It's coming out, uh, June 3rd. It's, uh, pre-orders right now on Amazon, but I mean soon enough, just a few days here. Really excited for it to launch and more people to get to read it. Uh, it'll be followed up with an audio book a a couple weeks after.
[00:26:24] Elissa Kalver: Um, we're just in the, the editing phase of that, but putting together kind of a compilation of, it's not just a cancer book. Right. I mean, it's, it's how I learned to thrive with terminal cancer and it's really utilizing some of these. Revelations that I've had based on that, but it's also pulling from other experiences of my life that I didn't realize would prepare me for something like this.
[00:26:48] Elissa Kalver: Like I played field hockey in college and I was a financial advisor. I. And these other life experiences have run marathons for charity and owned a gym. And there's different things throughout our lives that I think cancer shouldn't be the prerequisite for living fully. And I think a lot of times we say that and, and we hear it.
[00:27:09] Elissa Kalver: You know, have heard that before, like before I had cancer, people being like, you know, don't wait for something terrible to happen. And I lived a good life before, but I definitely live with a different kind of intention now. You know, I feel like I've become an amplified version of who I always was in a very unapologetic way.
[00:27:26] Elissa Kalver: And so yeah, that's all kind of wrapped in there.
[00:27:29] Amri Kibbler: Yeah. And it just makes you shout your story louder. Like it, it pushed you to put all of that. All the things that you've learned together into this book. And I think it's gonna inspire a lot of people, whether they have cancer or not, to know like, Hey, I can live my life to the fullest.
[00:27:46] Amri Kibbler: I know that I have today. We don't know about tomorrow, but I know that I have today and I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna do something that's meaningful to me. Make an impact.
[00:27:56] Elissa Kalver: Yeah. Well, and yeah, and and it's so true. And I agree with everything you said, and I'm curious from your perspective if you hear this sometimes too.
[00:28:02] Elissa Kalver: 'cause you know, sometimes people say like, well. You know, regardless of cancer, like we could get hit by a car, like any of, you know, any of us can die. And it's true. We're, we're all terminal. And I think there's like a, a balance there for sure, in the sense that I kind of always thought of it like, it's like, yes, that's true.
[00:28:17] Elissa Kalver: It's kinda like we might all be in the car and we all could get in a car accident. But you know, we might be the ones that don't have the seat belts and are in the more dangerous seat and, you know, are at the higher risk. And it's, it's that knowledge and you know, maybe that fear that if you were in the car not as secured, that you'd feel a little bit more uncomfortable, a little bit more anxious.
[00:28:38] Elissa Kalver: And I think that's, I don't know, that's kind of the best analogy I could think of, of like living with cancer even in remission or a cure like these are. And it's not just cancer, right? You could fill in the blank for other things. It's just, these are the kinds of things that gives you a different kind of perspective on what can happen.
[00:28:58] Elissa Kalver: And I felt that way. Experiencing grief, you know? And other things too. I feel like I experienced new levels of empathy. I didn't quite understand, you know, or know how to like reach out what people would want and you still don't know 'cause we're all different, but putting our best foot forward and kinda having those experiences.
[00:29:16] Elissa Kalver: As a silver lining. I feel like it's something that helps us identify more with peers in the cancer community, but also just peers in life. Like we're all going through something that can make things really tough.
[00:29:29] Amri Kibbler: Yeah, empathy I think is definitely something that we became really amplified for me. Every time I would get on a call with someone and they seemed a little off, I'd be like, Hmm, I bet something's going on for them.
[00:29:41] Amri Kibbler: And I always was asking myself then, because I know that I didn't lose my hair and I always looked healthy. 'cause you the colorectal cancer, usually the chemo, that's not one of the side effects. And so it, it made me really think about who, whoever I was interacting with, like what might really be going on with them.
[00:30:00] Amri Kibbler: Why did they not show up today? Why were they late? Why, why was this happening? And I just. Immediately think that there's probably something big going on in their life, maybe not cancer, maybe like with someone that they, something's happening with someone they love or they're struggling with something and pretty much everybody has something that they're going through and it's all different levels and health-wise and things like that.
[00:30:23] Amri Kibbler: But just as humans being able to be. Compassionate for each other and for ourselves, but, and empathetic for others, I think is one of the huge silver linings. One of the things that I am really grateful to have learned through cancer.
[00:30:40] Elissa Kalver: Yeah. Well, I couldn't agree more. Well said. I.
[00:30:43] Amri Kibbler: I wanna ask you about something that is also a big question that I get from some of the other thrivers that I talked to.
[00:30:51] Amri Kibbler: One of the big topics is how to get the support that you need when you're going through treatment, um, when you have cancer. And it can just be so overwhelming when people are coming to you and asking you, they, they all just wanna help. And have the best of intentions and you're just so tired and you don't even know what you need really.
[00:31:10] Amri Kibbler: And I know that you created, WeGotThis.org. Can you explain to us how that can help to alleviate some of this stress and help people to really be able to support their friends and loved ones?
[00:31:21] Elissa Kalver: Of course. So that was the piece when I was diagnosed. That was the piece that I come coming back to. That was really this like unintentional burden of kindness.
[00:31:32] Elissa Kalver: And it felt so wrong that like, all these people wanna help. It's not that you don't want their help, you don't know what you need. You don't really wanna ask for help. And it just felt like, why don't we have more solutions around this? And it wasn't that long before that I had been using a baby registry, you know, and back when getting married using a wedding registry, and it's like, why don't we do these things in the hard times?
[00:31:54] Elissa Kalver: Also. Um, and make them feel normalized, not just charity. And so that's where this idea for a nonprofit gift registry for cancer patients came in. And I, I started a GoFundMe for that and we raised over a hundred thousand to really get this going. And what that really told me was that, yeah, there's a certain amount of family and friends who like, 'cause I didn't do a GoFundMe for myself, they would've like donated some amount Right.
[00:32:20] Elissa Kalver: To, to help. With what I was going through and where this was my ask, like, this is what I wanna do. Certain amount are contributing just because it's you and they wanna support whatever it is that you say, but not a hundred thousand worth, you know? Yeah. It started becoming where people I didn't know were donating and people were regularly donating as they were seeing us grow and me starting to implement these funds and you know, now it's, it's fully functional.
[00:32:43] Elissa Kalver: If you go to, WeGotThis.org, not only has the registry been functional, we have nearly 10,000 users now. But we also just revamped the site and added two pieces that I'm really passionate and excited about. One is a resource directory, so that was another piece that I found. Really difficult when being diagnosed is like an overflow of resources.
[00:33:04] Elissa Kalver: So just as many people who wanna help you with buying you things and that there's a lot of people who wanna help by sending you a lot of resources as well, and they can be great resources. But imagine like, well, you can, right? You're going through treatment and you have all these articles to read or all these websites to go to, and you know, it's.
[00:33:22] Elissa Kalver: Like finding the right help can be really hard. So we built out a pretty robust resource directory where you can search for other nonprofits and free resources. With different filters. So whether you're a caregiver or a patient survivor, thriver, if you need financial help or wellness or going on a retreat, there's so many different things.
[00:33:44] Elissa Kalver: So we tried to really add in, there's a lot of filters without trying to make it too overwhelming, but you can also search for things. So that's saying we're continually growing and that I, I think is great. And there's just so many wonderful nonprofits. I wholeheartedly believe that we're all better working together.
[00:34:00] Elissa Kalver: We all either do different things or if there's overlap, then there's, you know, hopefully need for that overlap, you know, and, and that people can just know more about what exists. And then the other piece is a recommendation shop. So in our registry you can register for anything you want, so like it could be off of Amazon or Target, or you know, Etsy or direct store website.
[00:34:22] Elissa Kalver: You can also request donations like GoFundMe, so you kind have all the options there for what you'd need. But a lot of people were really asking for more direct recommendations, and so that's something we've been working on, figuring out the best way to implement it. So we've implemented in a couple ways.
[00:34:37] Elissa Kalver: One is through thriver lists. So in the community section of our website, you can see like the top five recommendations from different thrivers. Like myself and tons of other friends and it lists what type of cancer they had or have. And that way you can kind of like see if, if you feel more connected to a male or female experience or like whatever that might look like.
[00:34:59] Elissa Kalver: We're continually growing that if anyone listening and if you have have any that you'd wanna do, I'd love for you to create a thriver list. Uh, the more the merrier. 'cause it just gives people so many more examples of what was helpful. And then the other way that we're doing recommendations is through our shop.
[00:35:14] Elissa Kalver: So we're actually able now to do a dropship model with some of our partners. Um, like Oxford Pendants is one these cool pendants behind me, like this little one. You probably can't read it, but it just says, this sucks. And the, the founder of Oxford Pennant, his mom was getting cancer treatment and he just made this, she was in the hospital like for a stay and he made a giant penant and put it on the wall, and it just said, this sucks.
[00:35:39] Elissa Kalver: And he's like, that's what she needed. You know, like that was what she identified with. And so sometimes it's things like, uh, Nam Pons, we do like nose tampons. The company pons is great. I get a ton of nosebleeds from chemo and it might be medical things, wigs, bras for posts, mastectomies, all these kinds of things.
[00:35:58] Elissa Kalver: But also like a really encourage people to register for concert tickets and nights out and like things that just make them happy and their environment feel good. So by creating this shop, it allows us to curate the recommendations on our website. There's a button to click to add it to your registry directly, and then there's also an option to purchase, which, you know, a lot of times it's not that necessarily the patient's purchasing.
[00:36:20] Elissa Kalver: Obviously you can, but that way supporters know 'cause I'll still, you know, I get messages all the time. You know, my friend was just diagnosed. Can you kind of, you know, let me know what I should get him or her. And I mean, the first thing is I really encourage people to start a registry. I think that the gift of specificity is so important and we deserve that.
[00:36:40] Elissa Kalver: Even if we don't know it yet. Like, utilize the thriver list. You know, check us out on Instagram, see some of our recommendations and stuff. Because when you think about, like, I use baby registries as an example. People aren't just. Picking out random bottles for you or what diapers you're gonna use, like you're selecting that and then letting them know which ones you want.
[00:37:01] Elissa Kalver: And I think that's the same way with how many options there are for port accessible things, or like the accessories you would've needed are totally different from what I would need. I wouldn't even. Know the first thing you know, I'd have to learn from you. I would go see your thriver list if it was, you know, or call you up.
[00:37:19] Elissa Kalver: Those are all elements that I think are so important to, to not be afraid to ask for help in this way. I think that this facilitates that process where it's simple. If people are texting you, it can be like, 'cause my thing was always like, appreciated so much, I don't need anything, you know? Yeah. But thank you for reaching out and so now you can just be like, you know.
[00:37:40] Elissa Kalver: Uh, you could still say that. I don't need anything. Thanks for reaching out. If you do really want to get me something, here's a link to my registry because I learned that people are gonna get stuff for you regardless. Yeah, and that's, you know, everyone has their item. That's, I don't know if you had the item, you got too much of.
[00:37:57] Amri Kibbler: I have like 25 blankets.
[00:38:00] Elissa Kalver: That's mine too. Mine was blankets. Um, which, you know, I kind of don't you love,
[00:38:06] Amri Kibbler: but yeah. I'm like, I blanket.
[00:38:09] Elissa Kalver: And it's like, I even got like the same words of affirmation, ones from Amazon in different colors and stuff. Some I'm in the same color and yeah. You know, other ones I've heard a lot of are coloring books, candles, other things.
[00:38:22] Elissa Kalver: And I always thought of like when I was initially going through chemo and I still, I think now value this a lot is like. If I was gonna have blankets, like I wasn't any more into having a bunch of something like I wanted to have like the one I loved. Yeah. You know, like that really good quality, like one that makes me feel so co feel best.
[00:38:43] Elissa Kalver: Yeah. And so yeah, all those things. But yeah, so we're blanket buddies.
[00:38:49] Amri Kibbler: That's blanket buddies. That's amazing. So really you're just making it easy because we're, you're working on that overwhelm, which is really one of the biggest. Things that you have beyond like your actual medical challenges. It's like the overwhelm of navigating all of the different resources, all of the things that you're looking for, and then managing, you know, the outpouring of love from your friends.
[00:39:13] Amri Kibbler: And I just. Well, I'm so excited that you have created this and that people are able to go on there and register and do that. And especially that you even said fun things because you know, when you have cancer, you, you, if you're gonna ask for something, you're gonna ask for something probably that's related to your cancer without someone prompting you, like you saying, Hey.
[00:39:33] Amri Kibbler: You know what actually might be better for you is to do something that you enjoy because boosting your mood mm-hmm. Is one of the best things that you can do for your health. Like having a good time, being surrounded by loved ones, getting out of the house, going to listen to some music, engaging in the like.
[00:39:51] Amri Kibbler: Quote unquote, like normal things that you would do. I think that that's some of the best medicine that you can have outside of actual medicine. Um, and I always encourage people to do that. So like, experiences or taking your friend out or loved one out to do something that they have, um, so that they wanna do.
[00:40:09] Amri Kibbler: That's so special.
[00:40:11] Elissa Kalver: I, I couldn't agree more. I think it's so important and I think. That's really the nice thing about the registry too, is what I've heard from people is that they just get a little self-conscious to like ask for things that aren't related to it. And first off, most of the stuff you need for cancer, like how unfair is it?
[00:40:27] Elissa Kalver: You know? It's stuff you wouldn't be buying otherwise you wouldn't need to spend money on, you know? And it's just, that's a bummer that you have to spend on that. And it's great that people wanna help out. But then the other side too, like. You can let your supporters decide how they wanna help. Yes. And some people might, you know, wanna get you those things.
[00:40:45] Elissa Kalver: And I know if I'm looking at someone's registry and they want something like, you know, more in the category of joy and fun, like that's the thing I wanna be a part of helping with. And I just think that we. Every chemo's different, right? I've been on five different lines of, of treatment over the past four years, and it was like my initial most stereotypical chemo where it would be kind of those couple weeks of like no taste and feeling sick and all that stuff.
[00:41:13] Elissa Kalver: But then I was getting infusions every three weeks. So there'd be that week where all you're like, I feel normal, mostly like, you know, like, what should we do? And that's when, um, my husband and I started like. Planning those days. So wanting like the best blanket or something that means the most, we'd be like, okay, we were making salads a lot.
[00:41:35] Elissa Kalver: We got one of those vertical gardens. The lettuce grows. So we were like, let's um, go get new olive oils and vinegars for the salads that we make. And we live in LA so we drove an hour to Santa Barbara and we got like our favorite olive oil and vinegars from the place where you get it, you know, not, we didn't just go to supermarket and get one.
[00:41:54] Elissa Kalver: And it's like those moments that I remember most and adding in that prioritizing. Yourself, like just as a person amidst what you're going through. That's hard. I think has helped me with prioritizing lots of things since then, like my quality of life and being realistic with a lot of these things that are never ending in so many ways.
[00:42:17] Amri Kibbler: Yes, and it goes along with what you're saying about living life to the fullest. It's finding those things. It's moments, it's like little moments are what create your connection and relationship to your kids. They're what create your sense of self, like your joy, all of those things. They aren't like huge things.
[00:42:37] Amri Kibbler: Usually it's like what you remember in your mind is some special five minutes that you spend a day at the beach, a concert, a special experience. Those are all the things that stick in your mind and that really kind of like wrap you in up in joy and help you to feel like you're really living and thriving.
[00:42:57] Elissa Kalver: Totally. Yeah. You know, the thriving piece, 'cause I use that a lot. That was a term I learned early on being metastatic. 'cause a lot of, you know, stage four and metastatic patients and survivors, survivors, whatever they wanna call themselves, most people use thriver that I, that I met because, you know, we really technically haven't survived.
[00:43:16] Elissa Kalver: That's not necessarily the, the reason why I mainly use it though, 'cause depending on your definition, I mean, a lot of people consider themselves a survivor from day one. You know, these things are all kind of personal and, and how we view it. Like when your cancer anniversary is, like, I base mine off of when I got the phone call that I had cancer.
[00:43:33] Elissa Kalver: Mm-hmm. But some people base it off when they finish chemo or when they got the mammogram or the, the ta, you know. It's so individual, but with thriving, to me it's not like meaning that you have to be active and like doing a million things all the time. It's that the goal isn't simply surviving or being alive.
[00:43:52] Elissa Kalver: And that's how I felt. Like when I look now to before cancer, if someone would ask me how my day was going and it wasn't like, you know, I'd be like, I'm surviving. And so I felt like by you, you know. Outside of it, I always viewed Survivor as such a badass label, you know, and that's like empowering and it's kind of like our battle cry, right?
[00:44:11] Elissa Kalver: As, uh, in the cancer community. And then once I was in it, I just didn't feel as connected to it because I was kind of like, well wait, when I used this term before, it was based on like the bare minimum, like literally ending the day alive and. I don't think that's fair for that to be anyone's goal, let alone someone going through what we're going through.
[00:44:32] Elissa Kalver: And so that's my reasoning on it. And like I don't find any terms offensive or not, it's just, I, I like to clarify that because I think it's so important people understand that I. Thriving doesn't have to mean that you're like, good, you know, and Oh no, you know, and, and that's, I say that because that's like the most common thing people will ask me.
[00:44:51] Elissa Kalver: Like, 'cause I have hair and all that. And if it comes up that like, I have cancer, it's like, but you're good, right? Like, you're good now. You know? And
[00:44:59] Amri Kibbler: well, I mean,
[00:45:01] Elissa Kalver: you know, and you pick and choose who, who you wanna explain it to or, or not. But yeah, I just think it's important for us to like be able to, uh, not minimize.
[00:45:12] Elissa Kalver: Who we are in our experience just because of the circumstance. Again, cancer or anything else, like we all deserve to thrive.
[00:45:19] Amri Kibbler: Absolutely. All of us. Um, do you have any last advice that you wanna share or thoughts that you wanna share for other parents that are navigating a cancer journey?
[00:45:30] Elissa Kalver: I think the biggest thing, um, I said earlier, meet yourself where you're at, and I've always felt this way, cancer or not, is there's no better parent for your child or children than you.
[00:45:41] Elissa Kalver: And you know what's best at that time and your instinct, you know, you have to feel that that's what's best because we're never gonna be perfect. So like we have to just live life knowing that we're putting our best foot forward. And uh, if you are out there parenting with cancer, like you're a badass and we see you, and I think it's amazing and none of us should have to do it.
[00:46:05] Elissa Kalver: But a lot of us do, and you're not alone together. We Got This for sure. Um, if there's anything we can do from a resource perspective, if you need help setting up a registry, it's pretty easy. When you go to, WeGotThis.org it is pretty intuitive, but we also, if you email info@wegotthis.org, it is just a couple of us who check it and we have direct, you know, support.
[00:46:27] Elissa Kalver: We do our best to help. But just know you're not alone and, and you're doing a great job.
[00:46:32] Amri Kibbler: Amazing. Thank you. Okay, so we can go to, WeGotThis.org. Any other places we can find you or links that you wanna share with us?
[00:46:41] Elissa Kalver: Sure. Um, I have been doing some more public speaking and with the launch of the book, so I do have an elissakalver.com website now as well that speaks more about that.
[00:46:51] Elissa Kalver: And, uh, Instagram is where I'm the most active at ElissaKalver. And then We Got This is at WeGotThis.org. Also on, uh, TikTok a little bit and, and Facebook and stuff too. LinkedIn, all, all the things. But yeah, please follow along and would love to hear about about other people's stories as well.
[00:47:11] Amri Kibbler: Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of The Space Between if this show brought you comfort or a sense of community.
[00:47:17] Amri Kibbler: I'd love for you to subscribe and share it with anyone who might need it too. You can join the conversation on Instagram at thespacebetween_cancer.family and head to amrikibbler.com for more resources designed to support parents navigating cancer. Just remember, you're never alone. This podcast is here as a companion on your journey towards healing, growth, and connection.