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Demystifying The Indie Film Journey
That to me is why we make movies because we we made someone's life better for a couple hours and hopefully changed them for the better with these kind of movies that we're making. And that to me is, you know, dream come true level. So I'm constantly happy every day. Good. People are gonna respond to this like, I hate Derek.
Daren:He's too happy all the time. This is Truly Independent, a show that demystifies the indie film journey by documenting the process of releasing independent films in theaters. Each week, Garrett Batty and I, Darren Smith, will update you on our journey, bringing guests to share their insights into the process and answer your questions. Today on Truly Independent, we are going over the strategy that we employed for Faith of Angels. Did it work?
Daren:Did it work really well? Did it kinda work? You'll see all of that and more in today's episode of Truly Independent. This is episode 18. Alright.
Daren:Alright. Garrett. Hey, man. Long time no see.
Garrett:Good to see you. It feels oh, we chat every day. But when we get into this podcast mode, it does feel like a different mic. Hey. We're back.
Daren:No. I was definitely making fun of the fact that we literally hopped off of one call and got onto this call. And I I gotta say I love it, though. Like, we are, I would say, friends first and foremost, and we happen to make movies together second. And so the fact that we get to hang out every day is very cool even if it's on Zoom and on recordings.
Daren:So Yeah. Week week 2, man. We just went through our 2nd weekend. We're recording this on Tuesday, the was it 20 4th September? So we're still kind of in this real as as close to real time as we can can stomach release, mode.
Daren:We'll probably get ahead starting next week as well. But how are you feeling about all this stuff?
Garrett:Really good, man. It's, it yeah. I mean, it it I guess my mood's my mood changes by the hour. So so while recording a podcast, you've caught me in a good mood. No.
Garrett:I I do feel good, and it's easy to get, like, kind of lost in the details of things. Like, oh, this didn't go this didn't go right. But if we take a step back and go, hey. How are we doing this week? We're in a good spot, and it's fun to see the plan working.
Garrett:The the play is being run. And, yeah. Feeling good. How about you?
Daren:I feel really good, man. It's, there's this maxim that that I think it's Tony Robbins ism that's he says you what you focus on is what you feel. And so if you if you focus on the negative or what's going bad or what's out of your control, you're gonna feel bad. But if you focus on the good things, then you'll feel good. And so it's it's, you know, I've had a lot of practice at this the last couple of years that I've been trying to focus on good things and things that are in my control.
Daren:But, like, I keep going back to the fact that every day I have people texting me or I see posts online about people who've seen the movie and love it, and they weren't someone I invited to go see the movie. They did it on their own accord. Either they heard it from somebody or they saw a poster or a billboard or went to the movie and was like, oh, that one looks good. But people at my church and people in my neighborhood and my family and friends are all like, I saw it. It's amazing.
Daren:Great job. And, like, that to me is why we make movies because we we made someone's life better for a couple hours and hopefully change them for the better with these kind of movies that we're making. And that to me is, you know, dream come true level. So I'm constantly happy every
Garrett:day. Good.
Daren:People are gonna respond to this like, I hate Derek. He's too happy all the time.
Garrett:No. It's good. And there needs to be some yeah. And and that's I think that's a good place to be and a good way to look at things. We okay.
Garrett:So we're gonna talk a lot a little bit about kind of current status, where we are. We need to lean in. We need to, you know, have a section where we're talking about the carpenter and what we're learning from Faith of Angels and how we're applying as a carpenter. But first, we need to look at the box office.
Daren:We do. I just pulled it up. Where's our movie?
Garrett:Okay. We're okay. So yeah. Where There
Daren:it is.
Garrett:Put me on there. So, well, let's look at our top ten. So we've got, Beetlejuice had an amazing weekend. Any sort of indie movies, in the top ten that have run the play, there we are. Jungkook, I am still.
Garrett:I've heard good things about this. Trafalgar Trafalgar Releasing did this. It's on 769 screens, did 1800 per screen, and it broke the top 10.
Daren:Yeah.
Garrett:So Carpenter, that is the play that we set out to run. And I don't know what's it been about 90% of weekends that we've done this, there's been a movie that has done that.
Daren:Yeah. Yeah. It's a pretty strategic play. And, really, the stuff that's out of your control is what are the other movies doing. Right?
Daren:We know that the box office as a whole is pretty consistent from week to week. You know, it's in that kind of what did we look at last time? 75, 85, 140, 67, 87. So assuming, like, an $80,000,000 box office, that's gonna be split up mostly among the top 10 movies. And that's something where in one week it might be that number 10 is a $450,000 movie or gross, and other times, it's 1.425, like this, Young Kook.
Daren:I hope I'm saying his name wrong. I don't know. Right. I think he's from BTS, and I think it's a documentary film about this guy who went solo or something like that. But great.
Daren:You know? They used the existing audience that they had, and they got a lot of people out to the theaters, which is amazing. It looks like it's probably doing well overseas because we're looking always at the domestic box office. But we see 1.425 gross domestic, but total gross is 2.5. So it looks like it probably made another 1,000,000 overseas, which is great.
Garrett:Nice.
Daren:Yeah. Amazing. So, yeah, this, one of the big ones, though, that was, surprising was this Transformers 1 came out. I know we don't talk too much about studio side of things, but, Beetlejuice held out by, you know, $1,300,000, the top spot. Transformers 1 was supposed to unseat it and didn't hit 25,000,000, didn't hit 30,000,000, which was kind of the projected area.
Daren:So even the studios, even the biggest five studios still are competing for those top spots, and sometimes it doesn't work out the way they had expected.
Garrett:So what drew what is fascinating to me about that one yes. And and I think that that was a surprise. I think everybody expected Transforms 1. It's gotten great reviews, and it's, well liked. I think they expected that to be number 1.
Garrett:Look at the screen count on those, and you go Beetlejuice is at 4,100. Transformers is at, 39100. So there's about a 200 screen count difference. I think what made the difference there per screen average is, you know, $20 difference. Yeah.
Garrett:But the screen count on that, I think, is what what allowed that one to win. That's great. You go, okay. It's just like you're saying, there are, you know, innumerable, is that what word, variables, that you just don't know. One of the fascinating thing is in the top 15 movies of the weekend, 5 are new releases.
Garrett:Or, I mean, Whiplash is a rerelease. But you get 5, like, new movies that are just trying to cram their way into these megaplexes that maybe have 15 screens. And so if you're, yeah, I mean, if you're there's just a lot of competition, a lot of weird variables that it it's so hard to predict. We might go November 1st, we're opening Carpenter. Our goal is to open on 600 screens and our goal is to, be in the top 10.
Garrett:That's great. And we can run that play, but we have no idea what the other guys are doing. And who knows if Gladiator 1 is gonna be rereleased on November 1st to ramp up for Gladiator 2, and now we get 2 swords and sandals movies. You know, it's just like, what can you do?
Daren:I don't think I'd heard swords and sandals before, but that's a great genre definition right there. That's awesome. I I think there's some other ones that are doing our play, which was fun to see. You know, there's a bunch in the top 20, 25 that are releasing on 4, 98, 38, 81. So the top 20 is certainly possible for indie movies even on a small limited release.
Daren:I think we hit 24 in our opening weekend. Right?
Garrett:We hit 24. A top 20 yeah. We're the and and that's on 30 screens.
Daren:Yeah.
Garrett:So maybe pivot into that play. Like, what did we what was the goal for releasing 30 screens? We know, hey, we're never gonna get the top 10. We're not gonna get that earned media. Well, why would we put x amount of marketing dollars and x amount of note of sleepless nights into releasing on 30 screens.
Garrett:And did it work?
Daren:Yeah. Well, and before we dive in, because that's really our topic today, but I wanna point out where we are. So we're the number 28th movie. We made more this weekend than Harold and the Purple Crayon, more than Sing Sing. Not not to say those aren't good movies.
Daren:It's just fun to see that, like, oh, okay.
Garrett:Great to be on the the same list as those, like, high quality
Daren:Yeah. Movies. When that people are picking our movie. You know, they have all these choices. There's on this release list, there's 58 movies that are released in at least 1 theater across the country somewhere.
Daren:You know, the bottom 10 of those are a lot of, like, 1, 2, 3, and 4 theaters. So we're not necessarily competing with them, but you think about we've probably talked about this at length already, but if you're in if you're trying to get into a 12plex, it's gonna be really hard unless you're one of the top 12 movies of the country. But we're having a lot of success in 12 and 14 and 17 and 18 plexes, and that's really awesome that theaters are booking our movie even when there's this much competition. So we have crossed where did our movie go? We've crossed a 150,000 in box office.
Daren:We did 37 for our 2nd weekend, which is awesome, again, on 30 screens. And so, yes, our, per screen average went down a little bit, but it's still 1259 per screen average. That's higher than movies that are in the top 20. It's higher than Reagan. It's higher than The Forge.
Daren:It's, almost the same as I'm am I racist? So if you're looking at our comps, really, I think Reagan and The Forge and, I think God's Not Dead was a Fathom type release, so it just kinda came and went in one weekend. But it's still performing. Like, if you look at per screen average, that means how many people are going to the theaters that it's actually screening at, and we've got a really high one. That's that's encouraging.
Daren:So hey, indie filmmakers and movie lovers. This show is sponsored by Purdy Distribution. Since 2011, they've been bringing incredible independent films to theaters, like Garrett Batty's The Saratov Approach, T. C. Christensen's Love Kennedy, and McClain Nelson's Once I Was A Beehive.
Daren:They've worked with top notch directors like Mitch Davis and Mark Goodman specializing in family, faith based, and funny films. This year alone, they've released hits with JK Studios like Go West and Villains Inc, and have even branched out internationally with films shot in South Africa and Japan. Purdy Distribution works closely with indie filmmakers, designing personalized distribution plans, whether it's a theatrical release or straight to streaming on platforms like Amazon, Itunes, Google, and more. If you have a PG or PG 13 film ready for the world, think about reaching out to Purdy distribution. They're approachable and knowledgeable, ready to help you visualize your film's distribution.
Daren:Even if your film isn't fully polished, they can offer valuable guidance. Plus, if you need that crucial distribution piece for investor packages, Purdy Distribution can provide a letter of intent to distribute, helping you secure funding without locking you into a contract. Mark your calendars for Purdy Distribution's upcoming releases, Tokyo Cowboy on August 30th, the digital release of Thabo and the Rhino Case on September 1st, Faith of Angels in theaters on September 12th, Villains Inc on Amazon and Itunes on October 1st, and The Carpenter on November 1st. To stay updated on these releases and more, sign up for their newsletter at purdiedistribution.com. That's purdiedistribution.com.
Daren:Now, back to the show. With that, why don't we talk about our main topic for the day, which is our strategy? We've been talking about this for months now, but now we're at a point where we can say, is it working? Did it work? And we we probably will wanna touch on this a little bit next week as well once we can report on the wider opening weekend.
Daren:But maybe remind us or go back to where did the strategy come from and what is the strategy? If you were to try to describe it to someone who'd never heard of theatrical releasing before, what's the plan here?
Garrett:So I'm sure that there's a term for it, for what we're doing, whether it's a platform release or something. But our thought was for Faith of Angels, we knew we had a very, very small, bargaining budget and a and a small independent cell. We also have a very targeted market in Utah because it's about a a story that took place in Utah. So there's already awareness of it there. So the strategy was release on a few screens in Utah in a in a in its designated market where we feel like we could get a high per screen average.
Garrett:And then that would be evidence to other theaters across the country that this movie has an interest, has an audience. And so you take that per screen average, pitch it to every cinema that you could, and, and book as many theaters as you can from that. And the thought was 30 screens in Utah, you know, 20 to 30 in Utah, and then 200 across the country 2 weeks later on an expanded release. And I and I think we've we've stuck to that plan. We've tried to stick to that plan from the beginning, managing our expectations, saying, okay.
Garrett:Well, you know, I mean, it was a fight it was a fight to get the 30 screens in Utah, honestly, just battling out different chains and, you know, competitive marketplace. Everything that any film is fighting for, that's just gonna be magnified on anything. So even on a small 30 screen release, that was about, still is about.
Daren:Yeah.
Garrett:Is that is that did I describe what you were did I answer your question?
Daren:You did. I think it's clear because the the people who are listening to this podcast, they come to me and they go, this is so informative because I've never thought about these things ever. And so it I really wanna go back to this idea of being oversubscribed. Because if you can match properly match your supply of product to a marketplace to meet the demand, but still have the demand outsized, have more demand than there is supply, then that's the place you wanna be. Because what happens is you're not oversaturating the market.
Daren:And if you look at our strategy, if we had done a 100 theaters opening, we may have had a lower per screen average, and then the strategy would maybe fall apart. We don't know. Every movie is different, and it's hard to to point to a different movie and say, well, it worked for them. It wouldn't have worked for us or anything like that. But I think it's just a principle in business that makes sense, across industries, and so why wouldn't it make sense here?
Daren:It's very much a supply and demand business with putting product into theaters where they're where the distribution happens. And so now we're at the point where we can say, okay. The goal was limited release of 30, and then we were trying to get to, what was it, 200 for our wider release. Now the thing that shocked me, and maybe this is a reason to not replicate this strategy in the future, is that by the time we had our opening, limited release on 13th, we had already booked 200 theaters for the wider release on 27th. So the the distributors had done a really good job booking a lot of theaters ahead of time, and maybe we didn't need that strategy because now we're sitting here the weekend or, you know, the Tuesday before our Friday opening.
Daren:And how many theaters are we at now? I mean, it feels like it's going up every 10 minutes that we check on this spreadsheet here. But what's our we should we should give an accurate current count because it it bumped up even from this morning at 8 AM to this morning at 9 AM. So what's our current count for the 27th?
Garrett:Let me look it up. I, but I think that well, there there is one thing I wanna talk about Yeah. About that strategy because you you've brought up 30 screens, and you said, hey. If we open up on a 100, would our per screen average, you know, possibly be lower? And I and I think, yes.
Garrett:That's a guarantee. And in fact, there were screens in Utah that we were fighting for for that 30 screen release that didn't perform, that essentially brought the box office average down. You know? And so there's that internal internal dilemma or I don't know if it's an emotional dilemma or just a logistical one of saying, look. That we want that 30th screen.
Garrett:We want all these screens, and yet if they don't want us, then is there value in, like, pushing that? Or do we just accept that and say, oh, okay. Great. We'll do 22 screens. Our gross box office might be a little bit lower.
Garrett:I think, you know, we did, what, 65,000 or something that opened a weekend. The GBO might be lower, but the per screen average would be much higher. You know? If we took 6 screens, 6 You took your 6 lowest performing screens off of that 30 screen and just had a 24 screen release. You know, does that still make the amount of impact?
Garrett:And maybe it's a moot point considering that you're saying that we already booked 200 screens prior to the opening release.
Daren:Yeah. That's what was crazy is, like, the strategy was so that we could basically leverage the per screen average of our limited release in order to get to 200 screens on the 27th. But we had already booked 27 by 13th or booked 200 theaters by 13th, our limited release.
Garrett:Had we booked that many? I didn't I didn't.
Daren:Yeah. Around that weekend. It was either the right before opening weekend or the Monday after, that we had crossed 200. And then that o because that opening weekend, we were doing these screen special screenings, and we had our distributors up here in Utah, at these screenings with us. And I went to dinner with 1 and sat down, and and I was like, so what what are you thinking?
Daren:How are we looking for the 27th? And it was like, you know, I think 300 is easily in our sights. And I was like, oh my gosh. So the strategy worked. Right?
Daren:And it worked earlier than we expected. I think what the plan was was let's get 30. Let's do a hyperscreen average. And then on Monday, 13, 14, 16th September, we tell everybody we had a hyperscreen average, and then that's how we get our 200 screens. But we already had 200.
Daren:So now it's like gravy of, oh, there's more demand coming in, and we're just meeting it. And so as I see it on a spreadsheet, we're at 375 theaters booked.
Garrett:Well, I'm gonna talk about the smile at that. That's so that's so fun.
Daren:To smile. Is that your widest release, Garrett?
Garrett:That's my widest smile. That's for sure. Yes. Yeah. We've I've never so, I mean, I think at the end of the round because you're still booking screens, you know, as the screens are holding or chains are moving the DCP around at different theaters.
Garrett:But, yeah, I mean, I think I've never broken 200 theaters, at by the by the time a film has wrapped up its run.
Daren:Yeah.
Garrett:Or we will we will double that. We'll double my widest release, essentially. And on this opening weekend, we're we're at 375 screens as of today. As of today By the end of the day, we might make up that that remaining 25.
Daren:Yeah. This morning at 8:45, it was 362. So that's another 13 in 2 hours. Like, they're they're continually meeting the demand that came in yesterday.
Garrett:Darren, you wanna explain, like, how that's working? I mean, are we are are is there a number that's just like I mean, a theater goes book? Or how how do we go from 3:62 to 375 in an hour?
Daren:Yeah. That's the job of the distributor. Right? So before we're talking 2, 3 months out. They sent emails to all of the circuits that they have contact info to.
Daren:They sent it out to, if I maybe it's still on this sheet, how many they requested the movie at, 900 at least 951 theaters that were that were sent an email saying, Faith of Angels is coming out September 27th. If you want it, let us know. And that's where we got those initial, like, 30 for our opening weekend, but the initial 200 around that opening weekend. And so every week on Monday, they're able to go back to the theaters that haven't booked it. Well, they're doing both.
Daren:1st, they're going to the theaters that have it in theaters, and they're fighting to keep it in. They're saying it's got a high per screen average. It's higher than the Forge, higher than Reagan as far as per screen average goes. You need to keep the movie in your theater and drop those instead. Like, it's kind of
Garrett:We're not encouraging them to drop Ford's and Reagan, just to be cluttered.
Daren:Not specifically those movies, but we are saying if you've got movies coming in and there's some that need to be dropped, we don't want to be one that's dropped. And every distributor is doing that. They're the Ford and Reagan are fighting just as hard. We're not we're definitely not telling theaters which movies to drop. We're not targeting other other movies.
Daren:But we are fighting for, hey. We can look at the data and see. We were the number 2 per screen average in your theater. Are you holding us for the next week? Are you keeping us in?
Daren:And they go, yeah. And we go, great. And then we update our sheet that says they said they're keeping us in. And then they are also going out to all the people who they requested initially, and every week, they're following up and saying, hey. Do you want it now?
Daren:Hey. Do you want the movie now? Hey. Are you ready? And we had this specifically happen with my hometown theater in Elk Grove, California because we were trying to set up a screening for weeks, and they were like, we don't know.
Daren:We don't know. They wouldn't book the movie ahead of time. But it finally came through yesterday, Monday morning, and the tickets finally went on sale this morning. So now I can tell all my family and friends I'm gonna be in town. Come see the movie with me on Friday night, which is awesome.
Daren:But even the ones where we have leverage of, like, this is the producer's hometown. We're gonna bring 200 people to the theater opening weekend, and that's a pretty high per screen average. There that's still not enough leverage sometimes. They have to wait and see. And so that's what they're doing every Monday morning.
Daren:When we talked with Susan in in that episode, she was like, it's it's a mad dash to get all of these emails and phone calls done on Monday because you have to line the movie up for that weekend.
Garrett:Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot. It's a lot. And I think that, so Purdy is now harvesting what they've sown, reaping what they've sown as far as those 900 emails.
Garrett:They're trying to maintain those relationships with the I guess not 900 emails, but it's 900 theaters through various circuits. I think there's a 100 let me look at our document here. We've got a 124 circuits listed. Wow. So, you know, you say on if there are 900 theaters, that's a lot that's still a lot of relationships you're managing or the distributor managing.
Garrett:And they're and they're doing a good job of it, so now they're getting emails. And I will also point out that we pitched, you know, different groups of theaters. You know? That we I went to those 88 cinema buyers. Yeah.
Garrett:The
Daren:ICA Independent Cinema Alliance, ICA.
Garrett:Right. Right. Right. And I think so all of these efforts now, they we're now reaping. You know?
Garrett:Like, we're in the middle of the play, and and it's happening. And it is exciting. There's now this whole other side of it of of marketing. So we're saying, we did it. You know?
Garrett:Hey. We we got on wow. 375 screens. It's great. This and could it could shoot us in the foot.
Garrett:Like, it could turn it could spin it could break bad, if we don't get an audience to these theaters because suddenly now here's this, you know, 14 Megaplex that's allowing us to put the movie or, you know, bring the movie into their theaters. If we don't sell a ticket opening weekend, we're out, and there's no, like, going back. There's no, like, oh, well, what about let's try it this way. Like, no. We have to you have to get an audience to go.
Garrett:Yeah. So that's the that's the marketing side of it. And, our the way that we're doing this and, hopefully, this this this will be the play, and we'll be able to see if this works or not. We have a very limited budget, and so we've, you know, we're doing a social media campaign that's targeted toward these areas. So our marketing team has this list of theaters, and as it continues to grow, they expand the the region that, we're targeting ads Mhmm.
Garrett:Social media or Google. And then we also have in theater relationships. And so for these 136 circuits, you know, you get like an AMC or a Regal or Cinemark or a smaller one like a red carpet booking or a walker and, or CSC. And each will each conversation that Peri is having with them says, you book the film. We have a certain amount of money that we're dedicating to you all, to your circuit, for you to do marketing with, but you have to match that.
Daren:Yeah. Yeah. And that's them putting a not just the poster in their lobby, but letting the trailer run-in their lobby. And that's sending an email out to their local people saying, Faith of Angels in theaters this week. What to watch this weekend?
Daren:Check out Faith of Angels. Right? And so it's incentivizing them to do some marketing on our behalf because it benefits both of us. If they want 200 people to go see the movie just as badly as we do that weekend. So that's that's how you do that.
Daren:You you put some money into the hands of the theaters so they can do some marketing on your behalf. And like we've maybe touched on in the past, that's really great marketing because you're talking to people who you know already have come to movies at your theater. You're talking to people who are moviegoers, who like coming to theaters to buy a movie. We're not interrupting someone's scroll hoping that they see a post of ours or an ad of ours and click on something, then click on something else and then buy a ticket. That's a that's a harder ask, or harder journey for the customer than, hey.
Daren:We know you're gonna go to the theater this weekend because you go every Friday at 6 o'clock. You should check out Faith of Angels. So it's really, really good marketing. Very cool. And at some point, you know, the the marketing budget runs out or it becomes less effective to keep spending.
Daren:At some point, you wanna get into profitability. Right? Like, if you keep spending your marketing budget, that's more money you need to recoup. And so at some point, you turn off the marketing and you hope that you've done enough to where word-of-mouth, can help continue the run. Because in week 12, we're probably not going to continually be marketing the movie other than social media posts to the existing fan base, and emails from us, right, which is free.
Daren:So at some point, you get you reach a point where word-of-mouth takes off, and that's how your movie continues to grow and make more. And, I mean, we've seen other movies. We were looking at Escape from Germany, and then in their 8th or 10th week, they added a 100 theaters. It's like, how'd that happen? But they're able to do those things when the demand is there.
Daren:And they can go, oh, well, maybe maybe a circuit came in and was like, you know what? We we saw that this performed well. We really like it. So can we add a 100 theaters? Okay.
Daren:Yeah. You're not gonna say no to that. So you never know what'll happen, but at some point, it's really the the word-of-mouth from the audience that has to take off and carry the movie the rest of the way.
Garrett:What is our role then? You know, if an independent filmmaker is listening to this podcast or whatever it is, you go, okay. My movie's in theaters now. What do I do? What how how can I help, or what's my job?
Daren:Yeah. And we're we're specifically talking about a theatrical release. Right? There's certainly the independent distribution route of finding an aggregator and putting it on all the streaming platforms and the the TVOD and the SVOD and the AVOD and the fast channels and all that stuff. Like, that's all the digital strategy.
Daren:That comes later, and I'm sure we'll talk about that when we get to that point. We're not doing any sort of day and date release. We don't have any digital transactional, any of that available right now. It's only available in theaters. So speaking specifically to this, I think our job as the filmmakers is make a good movie.
Daren:That's really like if you want to sum it up, you make a good film. And how do you measure that? You look at reviews, you look at ratings, you look at sharing. Are people willing to talk about and and share the movie? Are they willing to leave a review?
Daren:Are they willing to, on their own accord, create a post and put it online and tell their friends, go see this movie? If so, that's your job, to make a, an objectively good movie.
Garrett:Sounds sounds easy.
Daren:Yeah. Support it.
Garrett:No. It it's hard. It it is, yeah, it's hard to accept that. I mean, I guess I I agree with that. That is the job of the filmmakers to deliver a good movie.
Garrett:So opening weekend, I guess, you how do we know if we've done our job? And, through yes. Through word-of-mouth, through things like that. So the opening weekend, I think it's the distributor's job to get the audience there. Distributor marketing.
Garrett:They have to get the audience there. And now, 2nd and third and fourth weeks, you know if the filmmaker has done their job because people have seen the movie, and they're continuing to talk about and share it. If the filmmaker has failed, you know, the the distributor is always at risk because the filmmaker is always gonna blame somebody else, if if if the release didn't go according to how the filmmaker wanted. And if I'm a distributor, I say, look, I'll take ownership of the first weekend. I mean, I've got if I can't get an audience there, that's on me as the distributor.
Garrett:But after that, I think it's the filmmaker's job to be like, hey, man. I if I deliver a good movie, then the audience will continue to talk about it.
Daren:Yeah. Well, you can almost look at the distributor's job is to supply, like create the supply or make put the supply out into the marketplace. The marketer the marketing team's job is to create the demand. And so, hopefully, you're not having to manufacture demand from from nothing, but it's awareness and desire and all of those things. That's the marketing job, is to get people to desire to see that movie and part with their time and money to go to a theater and watch it.
Daren:But beyond that, I do think that we, as the filmmakers, I see it as an obligation. I don't know that everybody does, but we can do marketing, and we can do some, not necessarily distribution, but you and I have definitely helped set up these special screenings, which is kind of a distribution type task. Hey, let's get the movie in this theater specifically because we have contacts there, because we can do a Q and A there, because we know we can get more people to that screening if we do it in this theater than if we just release the movie and put it in that theater without any of those extra things. And so we're definitely doing some distribution type work, and we're also doing a lot of marketing. Like, every day, you and I are posting about the movie.
Daren:We're sharing it. We're commenting on people's posts. We're doing outreach. We're asking people to talk about the movie. Come to our premiere.
Daren:We're inviting our friends and family and our contacts and our networks. Like, we're doing a lot of marketing, and I think that's important for the filmmakers listening this to realize is that from from what I gather, not a lot of filmmakers do that. The distributors I've talked to are shocked when they see us going to theaters and checking to see that our poster is up and that our standee is in the lobby. Like, the fact that we're doing that is kind of unheard of, which to me, it was shocking. It's like a no brainer.
Daren:Like, I'm I'm boots on the ground. I can go 10 minutes to check on a theater or an hour, and that's fine. It's fun. It's awesome. It's what I wanna be doing.
Daren:But I think the mentality of, oh, I've got a distributor, and I've got a marketing team, so I don't have to do any of that stuff is kind of a limiting belief and probably is going to make the movie not perform as well.
Garrett:Yeah. Well yeah. And I would love to get to that point, I think, where there is you know, I don't know if you if if it takes a studio movie or what, but I've got friends that are directors that they are hired to direct. They their contract is they get their 6 weeks of prep, whatever, their 4 weeks of shoot, and their 9 weeks of post. And then they're done.
Garrett:And, you know, you say, hey. When's your movie coming out? It's with the studio. And you're like, okay. Alright.
Garrett:Well, that and and they just have their paycheck and are probably just fine with that. And I love that, and there's part of it that's very that that seeks that. I think that that would be, you know, especially in these moments where I'm, you know, at the local, sticky floor theater setting up my own standee to try to beg audiences to come see the movie. I think that that'd be a good alternative. So, yeah, I guess there's no it'd be neat to get to that point where there is a team that is doing that.
Garrett:But I think on a on a podcast, we're called Truly Independent. That is the nature of being independent.
Daren:Yeah. But that is something else to know is you've done a lot of media. You've done TV. You've done podcast and radio. You've made yourself available, and you were talking, you know, 30 minutes to 2 hours every time you do one of those, and that's time and money that's being spent on the marketing of the film.
Daren:I haven't had to do any of those. So
Garrett:It's a different I mean, it's a different thing.
Daren:You won't care about what the producer thinks about the
Garrett:movie. We we released, one of my earlier movies, and it was you know, I was the director and one of the producers, and then I have 3 other producers. And they were just like, they all they kinda this was our first experience releasing a movie, and they're like, when are when are people gonna talk to the producer? Like, when are we gonna ask about the producer? And later, you know, 10 years down the road, one of my producing partners on that point was in.
Garrett:He goes, I was I remember being so, like, I don't wanna say jealous, but just, like, so, like, frustrated that people didn't care about the producer. And now, know, he's producing this movie at Sundance, and, he's sitting back and going, it's so nice that people don't care about the producer. Like, I can just, I mean, just kinda do what I wanna do. Yeah. I mean, if
Daren:you look at the exactly. If you look at the landscape of podcasts out there, like, you can find a lot of screenwriting podcasts. You can find a lot of film related podcasts, but there's maybe 1% or less that's that's about the producer. And so manage your expectations. Right?
Daren:Like but I have had 2 podcast requests come through in the last few weeks because I'm posting about this every day on social media. And when you create that awareness, then you're creating a story that's interesting for people who go, oh, I wanna talk about that on my podcast or I wanna talk about that on my blog. And so you can definitely do that, but, yeah, you're not gonna get as much media attention as the writer, director, producer, and the actors. So let let them do the stuff. And they're the pretty people anyway, so let them be on camera.
Garrett:Yeah. No. I'm I guess I could have that exact same conversation with the actors and be like, oh, I'm gonna show up to this q and a. And they're like, well, are you bringing any actors? Like, what's the actor?
Garrett:You know? When are we gonna talk to them? And I'm like, okay. Know your place.
Daren:Yeah. Now we were even debating, you know, this screening in Sacramento, my hometown. Are we doing a q and a? I was like, people don't wanna ask me questions, but they wanna talk to me 1 on 1, not from the back of the room. So let's have it be a meet and greet.
Daren:We don't need to do anything special. I'll just stand in the lobby and take pictures with people and and hug my friends, and that's it. That's fine.
Garrett:Any hand that goes up is gonna be, yeah. Question. Yeah. What does a producer do? It's not gonna be at all about the film.
Daren:Exactly. Very cool. So I think I think that covers it, though. Like, our job is to make a good movie. And then if you wanna go above and beyond, dip your toe into marketing.
Daren:Like, build your own audience. Build your email list. Have a podcast. Like, the this podcast exists to help promote these 2 movies. This is our version of marketing, and it gives us content to post every day on social media.
Daren:We're creating our own posts about, you know, I'm doing a picture a day from set or a post a day from with pictures from set of actors and crew people and behind the scenes. And that's my contribution to the marketing because that's free stuff that the the Faith of Angels channels can post. It goes to my existing audiences, which I have a few thousand people that follow me online. And so that's just awareness, and it grows over time. It's not a 1,000,000 impressions, but it's something.
Daren:I mean, it probably I could probably attribute a few $1,000 worth of ticket sales to my marketing efforts, which is great. I'd love that to be $1,000,000 at some point or be Ryan Reynolds where you can, you know, put a post out and your marketing agency is also a production company on the movie, and it benefits everybody and you can sell 10,000,000 tickets. Great. Good job. But I also don't want Ryan Reynolds' lifestyle.
Daren:So I don't wanna be public eye. I don't want everybody following me around, taking pictures of me and my family. So trade offs. It's all trade offs.
Garrett:I think you're I think you're safe.
Daren:Mhmm. Nice and safe in Provo, Utah. Alright, man. Very cool. It's been a fun ride.
Daren:I am just anxiously excited for this weekend. We're doing what we need to do. You're doing a a an Atlanta premiere with Cameron Arnett on Thursday, and I've got 2 screenings. You've got another one that we're setting up. So we're doing the same thing that we did opening weekend here in Utah.
Daren:We're setting up screenings. We're inviting people that we know to the movies to drum up that awareness and sharing and people talking about the movie, and that's the plan. We'll see how it goes. I'm really, really excited with here's the thing. This is from the numbers guy.
Daren:Right? If if we get had 3 if we have 375, 400 screens, we do a 2,000 per screen average. We're actually in contention on some of these weeks to be in a top ten spot. Like, if you look at the weeks where the number 10 was a 475 or a 560,000 box office, a 2,000 per screen average puts us in that 5 to $700,000 range. So not that I'm expecting it, not that I'm gonna be let down if it doesn't happen, but this is to kind of recap the entire conversation around the strategy.
Daren:We've actually put ourselves in a position to be a top 10 contender because the strategy worked. Because we did a limited release, we got a high per screen average, which created a lot more demand from the marketplace. So we supplied that demand, and now we see how it goes.
Garrett:So I'll I'll put it on the record that I don't I don't anticipate that happening. Certainly don't wanna limit this movie or or any movie, but I I think definitely top 20 Yeah. Within top 20, for sure. But, man, if it turns around not not turns around. I mean, we're going in the right direction.
Garrett:If it continues the way it's going, I think I think, yeah, we're looking at a $300,000 weekend.
Daren:Yeah. Which is amazing. And that that to me is a huge win that we put ourselves in contention. It's to me, it's the the number's out of our control. But what we did do was put ourselves in a position to actual to to where it's possible.
Daren:Because if we said, hey. We opened on 200 screens. Well, in order to have a $1,000,000 weekend, we'd have to have a $5,000 per screen average, which is unheard of for our type of movie. But 2,000 we've already we've already shown that 2,000 is possible. Yes.
Daren:It would take a lot of marketing. We're talking about 200 people at every single screen going and seeing it that weekend. That's a big ask. You know? That's 60,000 people that would need to go see the movie.
Daren:75,000 people who know need to go see the movie this weekend. I hope that happens. I don't know that we've done enough marketing or have the budget to get 75,000 people out to the theater in one weekend. But we've put ourselves in a position to where it's possible, and that to me means we did our job.
Garrett:Love it. Thanks, man. Yeah. Fun chat. Good to go over the numbers with you.
Garrett:I think next week, we will be able to recap how this weekend went and then, figure out where we go from there.
Daren:Yeah. Yeah. At that point, we start focusing on the Carpenter every week.
Garrett:Yeah. Yes.
Daren:Yeah. We'll give little updates, but, I think at that point, we've kind of done the full gamut of releasing that movie. Faith of Angels. How cool, man. Went by too fast.
Daren:I'll say that again. It went by way too fast. Next time we want 6 buds to release our movie, not 3.
Garrett:K. Thanks, Derek. Take care.
Daren:Thank you for listening to this episode of Truly Independent. To join us on the journey, be notified of new episodes and screenings, and ask us questions about today's episode. Head over to 3 coinpro.com/podcast, and put in your name and an email address. If you're a fan of the show, please leave us a review on your favorite podcast app and be sure to share this episode with a friend. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week.
Daren:Our intro and outro music is Election Time by Kjartan Abele.