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Join Wendy Coulter and marketing strategist Hanna Jernigan as they interview Colin McIntosh, founder and CEO of Sheets and Giggles. Discover how Colin has leveraged the Hummingbird Effect—small branding and marketing innovations leading to significant business successes.
Colin shares stories about giving back to the community during COVID-19, the importance of staying true to your brand archetype, and the value of being adaptable in your business strategies. Colin also offers insights on building a strong company culture, the impact of direct communication with customers, and practical branding advice for startups. Whether you're an entrepreneur or an established business leader, this episode is packed with actionable takeaways to help you unlock the hidden power of your brand.
Colin shares stories about giving back to the community during COVID-19, the importance of staying true to your brand archetype, and the value of being adaptable in your business strategies. Colin also offers insights on building a strong company culture, the impact of direct communication with customers, and practical branding advice for startups. Whether you're an entrepreneur or an established business leader, this episode is packed with actionable takeaways to help you unlock the hidden power of your brand.
00:00 Introduction to Brand Power
00:13 The Hummingbird Effect
01:08 Guest Introduction: Colin Macintosh
01:52 Fun Facts and Achievements
05:44 Personal Insights from Colin
07:45 The Hummingbird Effect in Action
09:35 Impact of COVID-19 on Business
11:42 The Good Morning America Breakthrough
15:49 The Ripple Effect of Giving Back
21:34 Team Dynamics and Culture Shift
24:52 Reinforcing Company Culture
25:51 Understanding Customer Preferences
27:51 The Birth of Sheets & Giggles
29:58 Embracing the Jester Archetype
31:26 Navigating Workplace Dynamics
39:32 Branding and Marketing Insights
44:18 Final Thoughts and Contact Information
Creators and Guests
Host
What is The Hummingbird Effect with Wendy Coulter?
Welcome to "The Hummingbird Effect," a podcast dedicated to uncovering the subtle yet powerful ways that small innovations can transform your business. Hosted by Wendy Coulter, CEO of Hummingbird Creative Group, this show delves into the stories and strategies behind successful brand building.
For over 25 years, Wendy has helped CEOs and business leaders redefine their brands through innovation and compelling narratives. In this podcast, she shares the insights and lessons learned from her extensive experience, exploring how a strong brand orientation can significantly increase the value of your business.
Each episode features engaging conversations with industry leaders, business advisors, and innovators who have harnessed the power of branding to make a substantial impact. Discover how focusing on core values, mission, and vision can drive your brand beyond mere marketing tactics, fostering a culture that resonates with your audience and enhances your business's reputation.
Inspired by the concept of the Hummingbird Effect—where small, adaptive changes lead to remarkable outcomes—this podcast aims to help you understand and implement the incremental innovations that can elevate your brand and business.
Join Wendy Coulter on "The Hummingbird Effect" and learn how to evolve your brand, attract more customers, and ultimately enhance the value of your business through strategic branding.
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Wendy: [00:00:00] Hello everybody. I'm Wendy Coulter, and I help CEOs unlock the hidden power of their brands. For years, business leaders have focused on marketing tactics, but what truly matters is building a strong brand.
Have you experienced a hummingbird effect? Like the co-evolution of the hummingbird and the flower. This is when small innovations in branding or marketing can lead to surprisingly big results in other unrelated areas, like an increased valuation, a stronger culture, a new product development, or an operational breakthrough. have hummingbirds marketing strategist Hannah Jernigan with me again today. Hey Hannah, how are you doing?
Hanna: I am good. How are you doing, Wendy?
Wendy: I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Um, so it's, um, it's a, it's a, um, interesting kind of morning. We've we've been talking about seances and, um, just, just interesting conversation today. [00:01:00] So this should be a, a great, um, episode.
Um, I am so excited about today's guest. Um. His name is Colin Macintosh from Sheets and Giggles. Um, and we have a common friend, um, and Hannah, you work with, with, um, a client who is connected to Colin. Um, and so this is just gonna be. Fun to get his perspective because I've heard a little bit about his company in the past and, um, it just sounds like a super dynamic, um, situation.
Um, so we're gonna dive deeper into the world brand building with Colin and see how seemingly small innovations have led to some big wins in his business. Um, but Hannah, first you're my researcher extraordinaire. So what do you know about. Colin, what are some fun facts? Um, Colin, we might, we might throw you off here at
Colin McIntosh: Yeah, I'm a little, I'm a little, I'm a little nervous how, how deep Hannah [00:02:00] might have gotten ahead of time looking into me. So yeah. What, what are the fun facts about me?
Hanna: I kept it pretty surface level just because they're really impressive things that I've seen and I've learned. Um, but I would like to start with you guys being the shittiest company that exists. Um,
Colin McIntosh: I've actually trademarked the World Hideous Sheets. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Hanna: So that's, that's, that's a start and it really sets the tone for, I think, for the rest of the podcast, but just some other things that were really impressive.
Um, you guys what was it, in May of 2018 for pre-orders, you raised close to 300,000 for your ki and I'm assuming that was your kickoff.
Colin McIntosh: That was our, that was our Indiegogo. Yep. And we, we raised $284,000 in pre-orders from Indiegogo, and then six months later we shipped our first box.
Hanna: Wow, you w Were on good housekeeping's list of best overall sheets. Um, and I [00:03:00] use that list, so I, I appreciate actually
Colin McIntosh: I just sent them in a new set for the new 2025 rankings. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's, that was really funny actually. My mom sent me a picture of her physical printed out good housekeeping with sheets and giggles circled on it, and we, we had won best overall sheets. And she goes, did you know that you won this?
I said, actually, no. I had no idea. They asked for a set and we sent them a set and they tested it and we won, which is really cool. You know, normally companies pay for that type of stuff. Um, but no good housekeeping's legit. They test in secret and they don't let you know the results till it's published.
Hanna: Wow. That's actually great to know.
Colin McIntosh: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of the, a lot of the stuff industry, you guys know, marketing, it's all pay for play. Not, not them. Not them. Yeah.
Hanna: I mean there's, I mean, there's a lot of other things. If anyone looks you guys up, they, I'm sure they'll see it. Best temperature control was one in [00:04:00] 2021 from the Sleep Foundation. You are one first place in Denver Startup Week. 2018, you were ranked 309 of the 2022 Inc. 5,000 list as a fastest growing private company.
So your wrap sheet's pretty impressive and I'm excited to get to know more about it and everything. And it's also, I mean, you remember these, so it's, it's cool to hear even that like you knew exactly the number
Colin McIntosh: Uh, yeah, no, I know. I, I have like a pretty encyclopedic memory on some of this, on a lot. Um, my wife would tell me that it's not just about bedsheets and my business, but I. You know, I could, I could, I could quote dates from like the, the Ian Empire and like the, um, you know, the, which, which, which year Genghis Khan destroyed Beijing and that sort of thing.
I'm like, I just, I don't know. I, I've always had that kind of like trap, like remember, but, um, that's so funny. What, okay. What's a non, did you find anything non-business [00:05:00] about me? I'm curious, or just all
Hanna: I really just kind of was more impressed when I started putting everything so I didn't get too much into your personal life. Do you want me to go dig real fast and
Colin McIntosh: No, no, I just, I
Wendy: I think, I think what I saw was something that just leads me to know that you've got a great sense of humor, um, you know, and just the way that you, um, the way that you ask people to, you know submit a pun. A betting pun in their instruction, um, in order for them to get a message back from you, like I, I love, um, I just love the personality that's coming out.
Um, so that all being said, now we get to get personal with you. Colin. Why don't you tell us about you and give us a couple of fun facts that no one knows about Colin personally.
Colin McIntosh: well, I'm a pretty open book, so I feel like somebody's gonna know it about me. At the very least, my wife, family are or close friends, but. [00:06:00] Um, so my, my background is, so I'm founder and CEO of sheets and giggles. You guys know that, um, I've said it so many times over the years that I mumble sheets and giggles.
Um, and we make sustainable eucalyptus Lyle cell mattresses, pillows, sheets everything we do is made out of trees. It's all renewable. Um, our pillow is stuffed with. Natural latex and kpac. Um, and I've been doing this for about seven, seven and a half years. I founded the company three weeks after I got laid off at 1:00 PM on a Monday from my last startup job.
Um, I have been fired or laid off three times in my career. I. Um, I'm a terrible employee. I start, I started cheats and giggles when I was 27. I graduated from Emory University, um, in 2012 with dual majors in economics and finance with a minor in business law. And I grew up in South Florida.
Where, um, [00:07:00] I, you know, um, had a wonderful childhood, loved my family, and now I actually just moved back to Miami two and a half months ago after 10 wonderful years in Colorado and Denver. And, um, I'll miss Colorado like crazy. So it's a little bit about me, my background.
Wendy: Awesome, Colin. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. We, we really appreciate it. And, um, you know, I think, I think the best fun fact out of all of that now is, um, how well you maintain historical things in numbers. I wanna transition into a hummingbird effect and just get that part of the show, um, kicked off. So can you share a specific instance, um, in your business where seemingly small change in your company's marketing or branding strategy? Led to a significant and positive outcome or results in a different area of the business.
Colin McIntosh: [00:08:00] Yeah, absolutely. There's a number of of stories that I could tell on a small sort of micro scale. Um, whenever we get a, a client or a customer who's, you know, really upset or livid about something, um. Part of the brand to me is that, you know, the brands are just people. Brands are made up, they're make believe, right?
And so I'm the person at the center of the Sheets and giggles brand. It's the best parts of my personality without all the neuroticism and anxiety and that sort of thing. Um, and so when I. You know, we have somebody who's really upset. I'll usually tell the customer care team, Hey, don't answer them. I will answer them, right?
Is my company, my brand? I wanna be responsible and answer them on a one-to-one basis. And normally I send them a nice, long, detailed, non cookie cutter email back about what the problem is and why. And I give them transparency into maybe our warehouse operations. Maybe something's going on with freight.
Maybe we've had an increase in [00:09:00] cost, maybe we've lost somebody on the team, whatever it might be. And I always offer them their money back, and I always offer them something extra. And I, I can't tell you the amount of times that that has led to cust new customers from that person who said, wow, this has been an incredible experience.
Like, I've never had, you know, the CEO of a company reach out to me personally like this. Um, and then you basically turn enemies into advocates. And I think that that's something that I've really focused on on a, on a micro level, on a, on a macro level. Um, something really crazy that happened is back in 2020, um, you guys might've seen this, I just decided all my friends had AI companies, software companies, they were all making like stuff for COVID-19, where it was like we're tracking the spread and we're visualizing the data.
And we're, you know, we're working with the city of Denver and Colorado to, you know, slow the [00:10:00] spread. And I was like, damn, I just have a bedsheets company. Like, what? You know, like, what, what can I do? Um, and two things. One is, well, we make money. A lot of startups don't make money. We make money, so let's donate some money to the problem.
So we donated 20% of our revenue for 30 days, and at that point we were making about $200,000 a month. Um, and so we ended up donating $40,000 to Colorado COVID, 19 recovery for small businesses, retailers, shops, restaurants that couldn't stay open during the pandemic. Um, and we also got a phone call from the city of Denver saying that we needed to isolate.
Homeless people and shelters that were coming in with symptoms so that way they didn't spread COVID-19 to others in the general population of the shelter. So they needed about 400 sheet sets to isolate these people in these respite motels. And so we donated every single twin Excel sheet set that we had on hand.
So those were two big [00:11:00] moments for us where we gave away tens of thousands of dollars. I think probably over $50,000 worth of cash and products. Yada, yada yada. A few months later, the governor's office calls me, he says, Hey, did you mean to donate this much money? The, the Broncos only donated 50 grand, or, you know, whatever it was, and you donated 40 grand.
And I said, yeah, I meant to. And then we got a call from Amazon and they said, Hey, our PR team works with the, the state of Colorado. We heard that sheets and giggles donated $40,000 to COVID-19 relief. Is that right? I said, yeah, that's right. They named us one of six small businesses helping during the pandemic, yada, yada, yada.
Another six months go by, I get a phone call. It's, it's from Good Morning America. And they say, Hey, and they say, Hey, we heard from Amazon that you donated $40,000 to COVID-19 relief in Colorado. I said That was. Eight months ago, I was like, yeah, yeah, I, we did, my goodness. I said, well, we'd like you to be our small business [00:12:00] spotlight for Black Friday, 2020.
And I said, yeah, sure, I would love that. So they sent a film crew out to my house. Um, we ended up doing a great little film segment. It aired on Black Friday 2020. Um, and then that ended up leading to a I think like a quarter million dollars sales day. Um, for the business, which ended up being, you know, a dramatic game changer for the company from a pr, a notoriety standpoint.
And on a personal note, um, because it was COVID-19, they couldn't send a, an interviewer out to Colorado to interview me. So they sent, they called me on the phone. They had a film crew out there that was a local Colorado film crew. And as the interviewer stand in with the phone, my focal point. Was a girl that I had just started dating about a month prior, named Madison, who I just celebrated one year married to.
So that was all. So a lot of ripple [00:13:00] effects from,
Hanna: Oh wow.
Colin McIntosh: things, you
know? So,
Hanna: hummingbird effect. Love story.
Colin McIntosh: yeah. Yeah. So it's a long, long-winded, long-winded story. But the hummingbird, you know, it's, it's not just the one thing, you know, it's, it's a lot of cascading effects.
Wendy: Yeah, that's, that's what it's all about. That's what it's all about. Um, and I love the Good morning. I didn't know the Good Morning America part. I did know the Amazon part, but I didn't know the Good Morning
Hanna: I knew that Good Morning America.
Colin McIntosh: They got the, they, they, I tell you what you do one thing, and it was funny, I remember I had to, I had to fight with some of my team and, you know, um, other people, my advisors and stuff, you know, they were like $40,000. You, you know, you're, you're a startup. Like, you know you're gonna donate that much money.
I said, look, I said 20%. I could have said 10%. I could have said, you know, I said 20 and we're gonna stand by our word. And, and that's that. And I made, and I, I gave me the donation. And, um, you know, the [00:14:00] way that it came back to us was just so incredibly fulfilling. And it is just one of those things that like, you know, they say no good deed goes unpunished, but that was definitely one of those moments where, you know, you, you feel like there is some karma in the world.
So that was, that was really cool 'cause I didn't know what it was gonna lead to, if anything, and did it with no expectation. And then you know, eight months later, my girlfriend's interviewing me for Good Morning America, and I'm, I'm doing a live belly flop on national tv, and I'm like, this is pretty cool.
Life's life's pretty. Life's pretty good.
Wendy: So talk to me about, um, the metrics of that. I mean, crazy that you had a quarter million day. Was that on Black Friday or was that just after the Black Friday?
Colin McIntosh: was aft so that was afterwards. So what, so when I say it led to like directly led to the Black Friday itself was a great, huge day for us, right? , I think we may have cracked that same number just organically, but I. [00:15:00] The, the sales from the show itself were like, I don't know, 10 or $20,000. It was the, it was actually two months later.
So because their team saw that segment, they have like a deals and steals team. They saw that segment. They liked the company, they liked my vibe. They reached out to me then and said, Hey, would you want to do like a proper like sales? In January. And so we did that in January for like new year, new you.
So it's a great question. It, it was one more step. So an even further butterfly effect. They, these things take time, you know? So it was almost a year after we made that donation, so it was like late January, 2021 and we had made the donation, I think in, um, late March or early April, 2020.
Wendy: Yeah.
Colin McIntosh: takes time.
Wendy: Um, so talk about the business metrics around that and what you, what were, what were you able to, um, measure, which obviously [00:16:00] sales, um, you could measure, but really talk about like, did that change everything for the company and how did it change metrics for you going forward?
Colin McIntosh: Um, did it change everything? It changed a lot. Um, I mean, I think the main thing is that we had just done for the very first time, you know what it was Wendy is we. We basically, we were raising some money, some venture capital, and the only reason we did that is because we did our first million dollar sales month in November, 2020.
And that was two years after I shipped my first box in October, 2018. So we had a two year very meteoric rise from zero first box to a million dollars a month. And then, you know, the question is, can you repeat that, right? Like, is that like a flash in the pan? And because of the Good Morning America sale in January, we did repeat that and we, in fact, we had a bigger month in January than we did in November.
And so [00:17:00] the being able to then tell that story of like, Hey, here's what we're doing. We just did our biggest month after holiday, right In the, in the new year. Telling that story, I think was really crucial. To raising our financing and, you know, I could talk a lot about, you know, my philosophy on, on venture capital and startups and, and that sort of thing.
But, um, that I think really enabled us at that point to go out and raise that capital, um, and tell that story of like, you know, being able to repeat that type of month.
Wendy: So I wanna dissect that a little bit because, um, it ties into a lot of things that I talked to with Hummingbird clients about. Um, you did something amazing for your community. Um, you didn't necessarily have any idea that it would impact sales. You more than likely we're hearing. It sounds like you were hearing from advisors that maybe that was not how you should be, [00:18:00] um, coming to the table.
You shouldn't be coming that big. Um, you are a startup, you don't have a lot of funding. Why are you making that decision? But in the end, you were able to raise more money, which means that you giving back to your community and the culture that ties to that impacted the valuation of your business impacted.
Things in a way that you are able to raise more. Do you agree that you were able to raise more than you would've been able to raise if you had not given back to the
Colin McIntosh: Abs. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I mean like, you know, I have two thoughts on, on this stuff. Like one is that this is like a lucky break in a sense, but like two is, this is like a lot of founders will tell you their story about their big break and stuff and like. It's sometimes just funny. Like sometimes they'll tell you a story and you're like, okay, I can't learn anything from that.
Like, that's not replicable. Like you just, you sat [00:19:00] next to the person who like randomly, you know, at a, a music festival or whatever, who like was the lead buyer at Target and you became best friends and they put you in all this, you know what I mean? Like, there's so many times where founders tell a story like that, and I'm like, great, thank you.
But like for, for me, what I liked about this is that. It was like a tangible decision all around brand, and it was all around like, this is what sheets and giggles does. We help, we, we give without expectation of return and, and that's that Techstars ethos in Colorado. I. Is we give first. And I think that the giving first with confidence that it comes back to you creates a very like high trust society.
And that's the type of society that I wanna live in. So then like creating that, being a part of that society that I wanna live in and giving first. Um, without any expectation of return. That's what we do with Techstars, with mentorship. I give my time to so many companies and I don't ask [00:20:00] for equity. I don't ask for stock options.
I don't ask for hourly rates. I just mentor them on their marketing, their pitching, their go to market strategy, their business development, and I love it. And it's so much fun to give back to the community. 'cause I wouldn't be anywhere that I am without mentorship. That made that impact on me. And so I, I see it all as, as related, right?
That ethos then gets put into my brain, and then one day I'm like, Hey, I want to help. Here's what we're gonna do. Colorado calls me, Hey, can you help further? I said, absolutely. We'll give you every Twin XL unit that we have, yada, yada, yada. You know, year and a half later closed three, $3 million, $3.25 million, and.
Um, you know, had a really really successful seed round. So, you know, there it's, it, it is all, it's all related to in, and there's a lot of yada yada in there. And I guess the second thought about luck is, yeah, some of it's like just luck. But then I think in, in [00:21:00] that case, in another cases, um, luck is like area under the curve when you think about time and hard work.
So I think the longer time goes on and the harder you work, the greater your area under the curve. For the calculus nerds among us. Um, but yeah, so that'll, that's my other thought on it. And it's not, it's not always true. I mean, people work really hard for a really long time and may never get that, that moment.
Um, so I know it's not like it, it's just you've gotta just keep at it and, you know, hopefully something like that happens.
Wendy: So do you feel like, um, did you have any pushback from your team at the time that you were deciding to do this? Did they have any input into it? And what kind of evolution? Um, I. Happened with your culture and your internal team.
Colin McIntosh: Yeah,
Wendy: in that area from this?
Colin McIntosh: I, I didn't have any pushback from my team. My team in particular. No. My [00:22:00] advisors, yes. Um, maybe, you know, my team might have raised an eyebrow. Um, but they, they trust me. And, um, you know, one of the first things I did actually during the pandemic is people were doing layoffs is, um, I made a video where I pledged that no one would lose their job, um, because of the pandemic.
At the very least, I told them that I would, you know take my own salary away before I took theirs away and, and had to let them go. So. Um, that was, I think, really galvanizing and really mentally calming for the team. And then that, you know, as the CEO, as as the leader gives you a lot of leeway and a lot of trust in terms of doing what you think is best and then having people line up behind you because they know that you've got their back and so they're gonna get, get yours.
So, um, yeah, not a, not a ton of pushback from the team. Um, yeah, not a
ton that time. [00:23:00]
Wendy: about though,
where the.
Colin McIntosh: them on a lot of other stuff, but not that.
Wendy: What about where the team is today? Like is, was there a culture shift, um, as a result of, um, the give back that you did? And tell me a little bit about that.
Colin McIntosh: Well, there's been a huge, I don't know if there's been a culture shift as a result of that decision in particular. Um, I think there's been a huge culture shift from Covid. Um, you know, we were in person in Denver and now we're fully remote. Um, and we have been for the last five, four, or five years, which is crazy.
I remember the last day that we had everyone in the office. It was the day that Tom Hanks got Covid. Um, and so maybe it was the day before and it was funny. Yeah, it was the day before and I remember it was like Wednesday of that week. I remember it was about the weekend before St. Patty's Day, and I just remember seeing everyone in the office.
Everyone was a little on edge. I had just [00:24:00] gotten back from a wedding a couple weeks ago, and even then in like late February, everybody was on edge. And I just remember sending an email out to my team and to my investor group and I just said, Hey, you know, it's probably too early. We may be jumping the gun a little bit, but we're gonna go fully remote.
For the time being, I'll see you guys back in office hopefully next week or the week after. But for now, through the rest of the week, let's just stay remote and see how this shakes out. Sure enough, the next day Tom Hanks got Covid. And all hell broke loose and it was just like the NBA shut down, like all, like every, and it was.
And then the crazy thing is that people still went out for St. Patty's Day weekend. That was the crazy thing, is I was like, I was like 29 years old and I'm like texting my friends. I'm like, don't go out. I'm like, I know, I know. It's fun. No, like we need to, we need to stay. Like, this is bad. This is bad. Bad.
Um, and you know, yeah, nobody listens. Um, and so no, there wasn't like a culture shift as a result of [00:25:00] that, but I think that. It was just a chance to reinforce the culture that I already had at the company, which is like, we look after each other, we, we take each other's health and, and happiness and, you know, family life.
Seriously. I'm not gonna jeopardize your health over some bedsheets. Um, you know, like, don't, don't come into the office, stay home and, you know, I trust you to work from home. And I think that that proactive nature of it where like it wasn't just reacting to the news and like reacting to what everyone else was doing.
Um, is again part of the tone that I like to set, um, in the company to make sure that I'm being a leader that, you know, treats people the way that I want my leaders to treat me. So it's a simple rule. Everybody talks about it. Jesus Confucius, it's not that hard.
Hanna: Hannah, any thoughts here?
was it the customers.
Hanna: You knew that that's why you wanted to create sheets and then you did something nice and then they wanted to [00:26:00] stay around? Or did you get customer like, I don't want to say you just started a sheet business to start a sheet business, but like people want to be a part of good where inherently good. We want to be a part of Good.
You did good things and then people were attracted to it. So did you learn about your customers before you started this business or. you learned about them along the way?
Colin McIntosh: Um, that's a really good question. I guess there's like two answers to it. One is that I have a really strong intuition for a lot of this, and a, and a brand often is that intuition, that founder's intuition about like. What do people want? Why? That being said, I also have done a lot of surveys with people, you know?
What are your favorite colors for bedsheets? Favorite patterns? Like do you like deep pockets, shallow pockets, like elastic on the corners only all the way around. I like got really granular with people about like what they like about bedsheets and what they don't like about bedsheets. And that led to us doing, you know, the bottom left [00:27:00] corner tag.
It led to us, um, you know, what our, our first five colors were when we launched. Um, it's done a lot of our product development for us is taking those surveys and having people contribute to it. So I, you know, I think that there's both intuition. I have a really good barometer for like, what people want. Um, and I think that's just empathy.
Being able to put myself in other people's shoes and say, okay, how are they perceiving my website? How are they perceiving my images? How are they perceiving my ads? How are they perceiving, you know, my value propositions and my products and the unboxing and my customer care? And I, some of that is just a natural thing that, you know, you build up over time.
Um, so, but yeah, in terms of like, why bedsheets, why I saw the niche or like, did I, did I think it was an opportunity, um. That's like a longer dumber story. Um, but basically I I started sheets and giggles three weeks after I got laid off in my last company, which was also a consumer brand. I. [00:28:00] We were making a wearable device that would send out an emergency alert and live location data.
So it was actually to prevent sexual assault, um, from young women. And we all got laid off at 1:00 PM on a Monday, unfortunately. Um, after raising a few million dollars and after launching products at Physical Retail and Brookstone and Target and, um, best Buy and that sort of thing we got laid off because unfortunately we had a supply chain breakdown.
Um, and just couldn't fulfill some of these orders, which was really tough. So as head of biz dev for that company, I felt really upset and, you know, somewhat blindsided because I had just closed, you know, a multi-thousand store deal. I think the day before we all got laid off. Um, and so I decided that I wanted to start my own company.
It was gonna be a consumer brand and take advantage of what I had learned. And I wrote down my criteria for my company, what I was the best in the world at. I wanted a massive market, highly fragmented, no market leader, so I didn't have to chip away as [00:29:00] somebody's lead. Um, I wanted something that was no brand loyalty, no brand differentiation visually or otherwise, and something where I could really zig where everybody else was zagging.
And I looked at all the domains that I owned and this is a true story and I owned sheets giggles.com. 'cause I thought it'd be a funny name for a bedsheets business one day. And I thought, does this like fit my criteria? And yeah, $15 billion market growing 10% year over year. Massively fragmented, mostly traditionally physical retail, not really direct to consumer at that point in 2017.
Um, and no brand differentiation. I mean, everybody's ads and photos board me to tears in this industry. And so for us to be able to be like the most visually and copy differentiated brand is a brand voice, um, was I think a really powerful differentiator. And we had some lightning rod ads in the early beginning and, and those were all intuitive.
Like my photo shoots,
Hanna: Mm-hmm.
Colin McIntosh: that's all intuitive. Building the brand like of [00:30:00] like a adjuster archetype. Okay, what is the jester archetype? What is sheets and giggles? What are we gonna do? So like, you know, I, this mental image of me in bed with two of my best friends with avocado face masks. Drinking red wine. I just had that.
I just, you know, I was like, this is, this is funny. Like, you know, who sees three bearded guides, guys in bed just talking, just chatting? You know, like, and I, so my whole philosophy is like, if it hasn't been, if it has been done before by another company, I don't want to do it. Um, and so I really try to make my photo shoots, at least for my lifestyle photos, um, be very, very different than, than every other company.
Hanna: Well, that there's a, there was a lot of things you said that I wanted to touch on, but I know we're.
Colin McIntosh: Sorry,
Hanna: But no, no, no. There is. It was, um, first of all, you mentioned your archetype, which is awesome, and I think that it's important and I can see it in what you do, that you took the time to. Set your criteria, but also like your brand.
You knew what [00:31:00] you wanted to do and you stayed true to it, rather than just writing this stuff down and like, yeah, like we will try to be funny if we can. You really dove into it. Did you have any instances where you've had to change along the way from what you've learned? And were you nimble enough to just say, okay, this is my original plan, it's not working.
We're throwing that in the trash and going in a different direction. And how did you feel doing that?
Colin McIntosh: Well, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to think of a specific story about this because I do this all the time. Um, and, and part part of that is because I have a DHD and I don't. Um, I don't medicate. So I, you know, for me, like I start and stop all the time when I have a better idea or, or a more compelling idea.
Um, one, but also I have this mentality that was kind of, um, implanted into my brain from my first job, which I got fired from. Um, but my first, my first job was at the world's largest hedge [00:32:00] fund in Connecticut. It was a place called Bridgewater Associates, and you may have seen their CEO on TV recently, Ray Dalio.
Being like, the sky is falling and we need to stop it. He's like very worried right now about the general macro situation. Um, but one of the things they taught me that I thought was a really, a really good way to think about the world is um, oh my gosh goal versus task orientation. So basically like a lot of people, a lot of workers.
Um, get task blindness where they start work on something and they will fi finish it. If it kills them, they will never change course. And it's like built on sunk cost fallacy. Right? It's like I'm special, I've been doing this work, my work is special. I. And even if this work no longer serves the goal of the business, I'm going to continue it and I'm going to fight my boss when they tell me to stop working on that because damn, I've already spent so much time on this.
People get really attached to tasks [00:33:00] because it's like right in front of them. It's like that time. Whereas goals are like higher level thinking, like, where are we going? Why? What are we doing? And what, what makes sense? So I really try to emphasize with my team and with myself, goal versus task alienation and always stay focused on the goal.
And that means that you can change the task like that on a dime if you need to, and you need to be very dispassionate about changing the task if a better one comes around. Now, 80% of the time, 90% of the time, we complete the tasks that we set out to do 10 or 20% of the time. Halfway through, we'll say, Hmm.
Actually that's not the best way to achieve the goal. We're we're missing something here. We're doing it wrong. We see a new opening, we see a new opportunity. Sometimes you, you drop it entirely and you never
Hanna: Right.
Colin McIntosh: again. Um, and so yeah, you have to be comfortable with that.
Hanna: So do you talk about that when you're bringing new people on? Like is that an important aspect of someone to have [00:34:00] or is it trainable someone that's very type A or
Colin McIntosh: Well, I am type B, but I'm, but it's, it is, I think that it's trainable. I think that it makes sense to you or it doesn't, and I think that people are like emotional and they're, you know, they're kind of rigid in the way that they're gonna think about it, or they're open to, you know what, like it. It is. It is tied in with a lot. It's tied into fear of failure. It is tied into making mistakes. It's tied into self-worth and self-esteem. It's tied into job security, right? If I work on a lot of things and then I stop doing them and I do something else, does that mean I'm working on the wrong stuff and I'm selecting the wrong projects and my work is worthless?
Doesn't mean I did a bad job. Is that what he's telling me? People are like really scarred by. They're ex employers. People carry like workplace trauma with them into their next employer. And so I could tell somebody like, Hey, trust me, I don't think your work is bad. I just want you to work on something else because we have [00:35:00] limited resources and you're one of our best resources and I don't want you to spend any more time on that.
And they may hear, Colin hates my work and he's gonna fire me. Right. And so I, I really screen more for like, what will this person hear when we have a conversation about this? And I wanna make sure that like, I'm hiring rational, you know, thoughtful people that are not too beat up or too scarred from their past work experiences.
Um, although, you know, I, I think some people also could use a chance at recovery sometimes, so to, so to speak. Um, but I, I've had somebody before. You know quit within three weeks and I was gonna fire them if if not, um, because they made like multiple mistakes on like, really easy mistakes on like email marketing, where like typos and stuff.
And I was like, what, what are you doing? Like, you know, send me a test email, like this is early on. And they, like, they pulled [00:36:00] me aside one day, like they had a meeting with me and they were like, Hey, I just want you to know, like whatever you think, like you're never gonna make me cry. As my boss, so like, don't even try it.
And I was like, what are you talking about? I was like, make what? I was like, make no, you, you made, you made a typo. And like, I just don't want you to do that again. Like, and just send me a, all I'm asking for is a test email. And I remember when, I remember when they told me, you never gonna make, I was like, why would I ever want to do that?
Like, what? Like goodness. Like that broke my heart. I was like, dude, you, you. You carry that with you, like from like a past employer, like somebody who wanted to make, like, that's crazy and not crazy on there, but crazy on whoever the past employer was that, you know, broke this person. Um, but, you know, and then, and then after, I think like the fourth mistake where the button didn't work and the email, I was like writing my email to them and they were like, probably sensing it and they like, just sent me an email and they were like, Hey, I, I, I resign.
I'm like, okay. All right. [00:37:00] Great. Cool. Sounds good. So
Wendy: we've never had this discussion. Have we, Hannah? But it, it is a more universal problem than you
Colin McIntosh: it's super universal. I, I was, I was like 28 at the time, right? Like, I didn't really like, and I had had bad bosses. I mean, I had a boss fire me, on a Sunday, because on Friday he had said something really vulgar about, You know, I used to be a recruiter, so I was recruiting for, for them, and I sent them, it's actually a terrible story.
I, I've never told this story on, on Air to anyone before, but it's 10 years later, so I feel like I can, I can maybe share it. But, um, he called my candidate a really disgusting, like, sexist name and, um, I basically told him, go, can I say go fuck yourself on, on your show? I don't know, but yeah. But that's, I, well, I
was, I was, I was I was 24 years old and I marched into his office and I was like, Hey man, I don't know if you think I'm gonna keep recruiting for you. This is the way you treat my candidates, but if you think [00:38:00] that you can go fuck yourself. And that was Friday. I left the office, I went home and I got fired that Sunday.
I never heard another word from him, from him again. And, you know that's what I've always done with, with bad bosses is like, I don't, I don't know. I don't know if it's just 'cause I, I'm lucky and I'm privileged and I feel the ability to do something like that, but. Um, you know, I, I'm really grateful to have been able to stand up for my values in my career multiple times and, um, even at the cost of my own job.
But a lot of people, you know, they, America is like what? Your healthcare is tied to your job, your two year old's. Healthcare is tied to your job. Like I. That shit will create some really bad power dynamics in office buildings. And I think that that's like really poisonous for everybody's work relationship to have that power dynamic.
So imbalanced is like, somebody is the key to my child's healthcare and I need to impress that person. Like, that's bad. That's a bad way to do the work relationship. And it's, and it's poisoned from the [00:39:00] start.
Wendy: Colleen, you told us at the beginning that you had so many, um, stories to tell. Um, and so I, I absolutely love, um, interviewing a self-proclaimed a DHD person because we learned so much and we get to hear so many great stories in one episode. Um,
so.
Colin McIntosh: relate to each other.
Wendy: And that's, and that's great 'cause um, people learn from those different experiences.
Um, so you've talked about so many things. You've [00:40:00] talked about turning enemies into advocates through writing, direct emails from the founder to customers that are not happy. Um, you talked about giving $40,000 actually over $50,000 during covid to. The community, um, that you live and work in and care so much about and how that helped like really grow the brand and people understand the culture of the brand.
Um, you've talked about archetypes, the jester archetype and how you have come into that and been true to that. Um,
you've talked to
Colin McIntosh: Sorry, sorry. Not to interrupt you, but a lot, a lot of founders, they ask me, what archetypes should my brand be? And then there's 12 of them, right? You guys know this? And I, and I tell my, well, there's, there's infinite of them, but there's, you know, there's 12 core ones. And I, and I tell, I. My friends or my founder friends or people I'm mentoring or students. I just went to Emory University and, and lectured at the entrepreneurship [00:41:00] class on Thursday last week. Um, at the business school. I, you know, I tell the kids the founder's voice is the brand voice, like, period. Like you have to, I cannot be a, I could be a, I could be a lot of things, but like I probably would struggle with being like a sage, maybe. I feel like it's too lofty for me. I'd probably struggle with like a caregiver. It's too serious. For me. Right. Um, but I'd be a good outlaw and I'd be, you know, I'd be a good, a good, I'd be a good every man.
Um, and and, but mostly I'm a adjuster and, and that's been, you know, very fun for me over the course of my career to the last seven years to just embrace that part of me. Whereas in my prior jobs, you know, my first five years of my career, I had to kinda like do that thing that people do where they put on the mask of work and like you become somebody slightly different.
For eight hours a day. And that like, um, I realized that early on as I was like, I [00:42:00] hate being somebody different for half my day. Um, and so that's been the greatest gift and I've been able to give to myself is I'm just maximum calling every day. Um, and my, my wife may not love it sometimes 'cause I maximum calling's a lot.
Um, but, but you know, I, the, the jester archetype has been so fun for me to lean into and I, I hope more people do jester brands.
Hanna: Yeah,
Colin McIntosh: It's, a, it's a blast. It's so fun
Hanna: it's, they're fun to, as a consumer, to be a part of it. It's hard to do. I will say you have to be as
Colin McIntosh: it
Hanna: as Colin is
Colin McIntosh: is.
Hanna: what you're doing. 'cause you can't just be funny
Colin McIntosh: How many funny standup comedians are there? Like 12, like comedy. Comedy is. Hard, like really hard comedy's, like one of the hardest 'cause comedy requires it. So I have a theory actually that like human beings are really good at rhythmic things like things that have to do with the inner ear. Um, so like, like, you know, you have this like evolution [00:43:00] where we develop this really incredible rhythm.
Um, I think actually in the water before, before we get out of the water. And all a lot of creatures have it. And then. Then we have like a million years where it's just us at the campfire. Right. And like you're just basically like singing, dancing, telling stories, orating, comedy, um, you know, moving your body, cooking healing I think is very rhythmic.
Um, and so like there's these things that are rhythmic that have this cadence to them. And I think that comedy is one that we don't realize how melodic it is, but there's a certain type of tone and incantation and. You are gonna hit this note and then you is timing. Um, and then there's also like an empathy piece to it is like, how are people hearing what I'm saying?
And you have to understand your head in live time, what they're reacting to, so that way you can then deliver the next word exactly the way it needs to be delivered. So, um, yeah, I, I think that it's really hard because it's one of the, like the, the major [00:44:00] rhythmic evolutionary things of the human brain.
And like some people have that comedic. Rhythm. Just like some people can dance and some people can sing. Um, but like I have no rhythm musically, but all my rhythm is in oration and in comedy, so that's, that's what I'm best at.
Wendy: So Colin, um, we're, we're gonna wrap up here, but I want to hear from you kind of at the end, um, how your approach to branding and marketing and these things that have happened along the way have impacted you and what you've learned and what advice you would give to another business who wants to leverage similar opportunities.
Colin McIntosh: So definitely the, the brand along your own personality. I think that, you know, if you're, if you're a romantic, be a romantic. If you're an every man, be an every man. If you're a hero, be a hero, magician, so and so forth, like. Be yourself and your brand. And then I think one of the best tips that I realized, and this is maybe more of [00:45:00] a tactical marketing tip, and you guys actually could probably use this for your clients.
Is because your brand is yourself. Other people who are like yourself are going to resonate with your brand. So go ask, go write down, sit down and say, what are my favorite things that I listen to every day, every week? And write down your favorite YouTube channels, your favorite Spotify podcasts, or your radio stations.
Write down your favorite TV shows. Write down your favorite, um, you know, TikTok channels or your YouTube shorts creators, or whatever. Yeah. And then go reach out to all those people and say, Hey, I'm a huge fan of what you put out there. I listen to you every day. I watch you every day. I, I sponsor journalists that I read whose work I find very important.
And then I create their own landing page. Right. And it's called Soft Heading Journalism. Right. 'cause it's, you know, bedsheets soft hitting journalism and Yeah. And like, you know, I do that because I know that people who like the things that [00:46:00] I like. Will like my brand and so you, your community is out there.
It looks just like you. And go find that community where you are already spending your time, and those communities will resonate very strongly with your brand and you can create landing pages and content for them that nobody else can because you understand that creator better than any other brand, understands that creator that you love.
Wendy: Love it. Love it. Um, and, and I also think that your openness to, um, innovation and experimentation within the brand, the ability to change has to, um, really. Really speak to your culture and your people. Um, we so appreciate you coming on the show today, Colin. We learned so much. Um, it's been a great episode and so many takeaways in so many different areas.
We don't always, we don't always get that many stories, so thank you so [00:47:00] much for giving us your time this morning. It means so much. Um, we've enjoyed exploring the Hummingbird Effect in action with you. Can you share your contact information with our listeners here please?
Colin McIntosh: Yeah, absolutely. And, and you know, I appreciate you you know, you having me on the show. And so one other thing that we didn't even talk about is I actually have this passion project that I do. I. Um, called sheets resume.com. It's not affiliated with sheets and giggles, but, um, you know, I'm the sheets and giggles guy.
That's what they call me, the MyPillow guy, the sheets and giggles guy, right. So, you know, on the internet, I've written in my spare time as a passion project, I. Some of the best, most popular resume advice in the world. My resume's been downloaded 4 million times. Um, I know this is kind of a hard pivot to your question, but I want people out there who are listening, who maybe are thinking about getting a new job or they're unemployed.
Um, this is just the last thing I wanna leave them with. If you go to sheets resume.com, I've got a ton of free resources. My resume's been [00:48:00] downloaded millions of times. Free resume guide template. Free cover letter writer, um, you know, and an AI resume builder as well, if you want an easy button. Um, but I love doing that in my spare time again on medicated A DHD.
It's what I spend my nights on and, um, I adore helping people with the job search. Back when I was a recruiter, I couldn't help everybody. So if you want to contact me, you can contact me through sheets and giggles. I'm on LinkedIn. Super easy to find. Colin Macintosh. I'm not on Twitter anymore or really anywhere, socially, publicly.
I think that it's mind poison and I'm really trying to do my best to untangle myself from that dopamine addiction. Um, and then with the resume, business sheets, resume.com, if you need help on a job search, contact me. Um, I would love to help you out. I, this is what gets me outta bed in the morning, um, which is hard on account of the sheets, so.
Wendy: So I think lots of people would love to get [00:49:00] in bed with you to, to take their resume to the next level, Colin, so thank you for that. And I had to throw one in just to
make sure.
Colin McIntosh: Yeah, well, no, that's what I always say. We, we'll
put,
Wendy: I reach out, you respond, right?
Colin McIntosh: Yeah. Put, put your resume to bed. You know, that's what we always say, so, yeah. Yeah.
Wendy: resume to bed with Colin, thank you so much and thank you to each of our listeners. Take what you learned today from Colin and go find your own hummingbird effect.