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Join host, Tuck Choate, and executive pastor, Bennett Holloway, as they discuss Temple Church's Sunday sermons in more detail, explore everyday application of biblical truths, and answer listener questions - all to help you strengthen you in your spiritual walk. Expect meaningful conversations that will encourage you in your faith journey.
Tuck Choate 0:08
Welcome temple family and friends, we're so glad to have you joining us for another episode of Temple talk. This podcast aims to engage our faith community through thoughtful biblical discussions centered on God's word. Our goal is to explore Scripture together to discover the wisdom that has for our lives. In this podcast, we'll be diving deep into God's truths and discussing how they impact our daily living. We're eager to unpack the riches of the Bible with you all our extended church family. And now here's welcome temple family and friends to another episode of Temple talk. This week, we are talking about understanding the true church. And as always, I have pastor Bennett Holloway with me, but how are you doing?
Bennett Holloway 0:47
I'm doing well tuck, I'm doing well. It's a good year, it's been a great month. And today, it is uniquely 75 degrees. With a warm weather, I am filled with joy. I love it. I love it
Tuck Choate 1:03
got a lot of the flowers in Antarctica. That's,
Bennett Holloway 1:05
that's true.
Tuck Choate 1:07
It's been a it's been a couple of weeks since we've been in here, just because of schedules and timing and all kinds of craziness going on in town
Bennett Holloway 1:15
being sick. And so yeah, I'm excited to get back into this. I'm excited to jump into our first sermon in this new.
Tuck Choate 1:22
So we've got a new series, kind of talk us through what Dr. yourt is walking us through for what he said may be his last series. Yeah. So our
Bennett Holloway 1:32
objective with this series is to really come in and button up some significant things that need to be taught from the pulpit in our church. And so when you're going through church revitalization, when you're going through addressing critical issues in the context of a church, we know and understand that all of these things won't be solved in a 12 month period. And a lot of these things don't just have to do with the church. A lot of these things don't have to do with the structure of the organization that doesn't have to do with the objective of the ministry is it some of these things have to do with the hearts of the people, right. And so as we start working on this, we understand that there's a process that must take place, as all of us grow in what it means to be Christ like, it's going to shift the way that we see different things about our church and different ways that we value the Word of God and living to be more like Christ. So this is, this is a sermon series that's attempting to address some of the largest, most pivotal issues that will provide a higher probability of breakthrough in these 14 critical issues at our church that we got from an assessment last year that was done. So big picture context is, as we've been going through, really understanding how to become a healthy thriving body of believers that are discipled, and also making disciples, we went through and we did a survey, with Dr. Ewart. And that survey pumped out significant number of issues that we can immediately address and some that need to be addressed over time. And so as we've been building, rebranding, shifting perspectives, even re staffing to address these things, and we've been prioritizing ones and triaging if if I can say that, some of these issues, and this sermon series really sits down and addresses some of the ones that have to do with the perspective of the congregation. And even, we would argue the perceived value of some very important topics. And so this one right here is the church. And it's understanding the true church, not the western view, or Bennett's personal perspective, but an actual Biblical understanding of what the church was in the New Testament, the value of the church, and how God views the Bride of Christ, how God views this church, how Jesus viewed the church. And so I'm excited to work through that today, and honestly compare and contrast it with ways that we see the church or ways we've even heard the what the churches that are inaccurate.
Tuck Choate 4:21
Absolutely. So Dr. York, took us through a few different questions kind of up front. Some of them were phrased a little bit odd, like what do you mean to so the first one is Why is a biblical church, but then that's the end and then there's a question mark. I saw that and I was like, why is it what but his his whole purpose in saying this is you know, why is there you know, what, what is it about it? Why, yeah, what's what's the why? And so he kind of mentions, you know, the ultimate mission of God himself is and there's a is it Latin Latin phrase To bring glory to himself,
Bennett Holloway 5:02
let's say yeah, missio dei is to bring glory unto himself. And so if we're taking, if we look at that as the mission of God, then we can better understand the mission of those that worship God as we take on that mission ourselves. So if we're doing a mission that's contradictory to the one that's called us, then then there's a disconnect there. And so we learned best about what to do by learning best about his heart, and an intentionality there that he has to be glorified, which is incredibly important. And so that's our ultimate mission in life, and and also for the church to bring great glory to God.
Tuck Choate 5:43
Right. So as you know, like you said, our job then is to fill in to that mission. So and you mentioned earlier as well, you know, a lot of the changes that need to take place in our church is in the hearts of the individual members. So what are some ways that we as individuals that are members here at Temple specifically, how can we contribute towards this glorification of God in our daily lives?
Bennett Holloway 6:15
Where I would begin to answer that question is starting with personal private prayer. Okay, so I would encourage people that want to actually be a part of that objective of bringing glory unto God, through the vehicle of the church that God has designed to use in this period. I think that it is important that we drive people into their prayer closet into a moment where they just sit and say, Lord, how can I bring glory to you. And I think there's some intentionality there with driving people into a deeper personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Because as time goes, the more of us that do this, that's whenever that synergy begins. That's when the momentum builds, that's when maturity is created. Because what happens is, the Holy Spirit is moving through people that are dependent on him, rather than organizational chart from some successful secular company, rather than taking business models of our marketing industry and applying it to the church. Instead of caring more about the product placement of our branding Temple Church, we care more about the person of Jesus Christ, and that starts at an individual level. And in reality, that's the only level that really matters for all of eternity. Right. And so if we're driven back to our personal relationship with God, I think that's the first place that we have to begin, whether it's accepting Him as our Lord and Savior, actually surrendering to Him, right? Or repenting, and coming back to him, and saying, nothing else matters. But to glorify Your name. And if we all start from that position, in a posture of prayer, I can see some significant shifts take place, in our context, here at Temple, but also in our families and in our marriages as well.
Tuck Choate 8:21
Yeah, absolutely. It's a it's a whole thing you can I mean, you can tell somebody what to do, and they will go and do it. What we're looking for is for you to know, in your heart, here's, here's where I'm called to do something, and then bringing it to the church and saying, How can I help? How can I use my gifts? How can I be part of this body of Christ that is working towards, you know, this goal, if we have a lot more people doing that, it's, it's incredible. I've often heard that, you know, 10% of the membership at any given church does 90% of the work. And it's so tough because you've you've got this wealth of people there that so often just kind of want to consume, and are just content to come in. And we need to get get that other 90% fully involved fully bought in to that idea of this is, this is my family. This is my body that I'm working with. So
Bennett Holloway 9:19
which is why I the way that he'd structured Why is a biblical church is actually the best place to start, is because if we better understand the why behind a biblical church that's created and put into motion by the Creator, who stepped down. And as Jesus did this, and he launched it, if we better understand the why, behind the establishment of it, we will better understand the priority of the church and the role that the church has in accomplishing the very mission. That wasn't compromised when Jesus Christ established the church. He chooses to use it to fulfill that mission. And so there's, there's a, there's a realignment that takes place, right? From our perspective that gives, that is really motivated by an eternal why the church is so valuable right now. And you may have these conversations with people in our I mean, our age, I mean, we're, we're in our 30s. And so we're navigating different things with different friends that we've grown up with and stuff like that. But I consistently have conversations with people a little older, a little younger than me that, you know, what's the point of going to church, they've been, they've been hurt before, or they've just been seeing people mess up, and they've been elevating people to a higher level than they should be. Or honestly, they just loved themselves more than how they perceive or value church. So they'd rather sleep, they'd rather do their own thing they'd rather go out and fish, which is an example he used, because fishing is very prevalent out here on the coast. And so the value, if we were honest, and we looked at the statistics across our country, the value of church has plummeted. I think that's because of multiple reasons. And this sermon series, as we work through what it means to be a kingdom seeker, as God transforms us into a kingdom servant. It's going to address these things. I mean, we're going to be working through what discipleship looks like, we're going to be working through spiritual discipline, we're going to be working through the value of church membership and, and what baptism is, we're going to be working through understanding the key roles that we have in the building up the body of Christ towards maturity in Christ, we're going to be working through all of these things, as a church. Not only that, but also the basic theology, or the hermeneutics of how to navigate establishing primary versus tertiary things that we need to stand on, and defend, as we go forward in this fixed focused mission, at Temple, to share the gospel with our local context and around the world. So all of this is going to be building as time goes on, but it's directly attacking some misconceptions about why the church is so significant, and why the church needs to be valued. And we need to be a part of it. And so how he opened it up was when intentionality with acknowledging guys, the church is not a building, the church is not a building, the church is not a building the church are the people that make up the body, the local body of believers. Now, for us today, we've got a lot of depending on where you live, you have a lot of churches that that believe some nuances of different things. So they create their own little pockets and, and on one road, you may have seven churches, and you have neighborhood churches, you have home churches, now all of a sudden, there's online churches, you can virtually attend stuff. So it's an oversaturated market, with a lot of churches, and some of them honestly are not healthy. Some of them honestly, are not biblical. And some of them really people should have nothing to do with. But the reality is that as we look at that, it we've we've really, it's impacted the way that we see things. And now that we have all of these options, suddenly we've shifted, to be more self focused on where we should go to church, rather than rather than focused on the mission of what God's wanted to do through that local congregation. And that's a different problem than they had, you know, back in back in the biblical times in the New Testament, the church of Ephesus, right, that that was the church in Ephesus,
Tuck Choate 13:57
right city,
Bennett Holloway 13:58
so that was it, right? The church in Rome. There was a church in Rome, right? There wasn't temple, Temple Baptist in Rome, Italy, it was they weren't like seven churches, right? It was it was the church in Rome, the church in Ephesus. So they didn't really get to sit around and pick and criticize and, and do whatever tickles their fancy. They were part of the church. And they're a part of the church because of Jesus Christ, and what he's done in their life. And so we are experiencing a little bit different thing than they were, but it's decreased our value of the church, unless we've intentionally looked at the why, from a biblical perspective, in the view of God, is church crucial to the Gospels expansion.
Tuck Choate 14:46
And we see that a lot, you know, in the letters, especially from Paul when he's speaking to a church and says, Hey, I know there's a lot of dissension among your members, because that's all they had. I mean, they had you couldn't go somewhere. Tell us when you were upset, you either went to church where you were or you didn't. Whereas, you know, a lot of times now, if you have an issue with with one church, you go and find another one. And, you know, we have to fight against that church shopping mindset, because it's not about us. It's not about what we get out of the church. You know, Dr. Ewart is really trying to say, churches about God and bringing glory to Him and, and finding a place that you believe, and working with that group there. And, you know, when we think and we're about to about to talk of what is or who is a biblical church and talking about the body. But you know, one member of the body doesn't just get to leave without there being a lot of pain involved. So I've kind of alluded to it that our next question then is, who is a biblical church? And you kind of mentioned it as well, it's not the building, it is the people it is the believers that are the disciples of Jesus, that have decided to come together work together to be part of this local body. And so the question is, you know, if we are viewing this as a body of called out saved believers, how does that affect our sense of community and more importantly, the responsibility that we have? To, to the church to the people here to, to God through the church?
Bennett Holloway 16:24
Yeah. And I'm going to just read some scripture, just because I think I think it's important to be able to answer. Some people think that they're part of a church just because they attended. And I don't want to, I don't want to mix up definitions here. Okay. So if our terms, who is the church, they are the people that have committed to a local congregation, because of their salvation in Jesus Christ. So people that just attend a church, let's say, they say, maybe that's my church, that's where I go, that's our church. But they are not committed members of the church, or they have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, which is required for biblical churches membership, then, then they're trying to do step three, before they've even done step one. And I think it's important to recognize that, so on who is the church Ephesians 219, through 20 talks about consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens, with God's people, and also members of his household built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Himself as the chief cornerstone. Now, Paul in here is writing to the book to the church and Ephesus. And as he's writing to the Ephesians, what he's talking about here is this beautiful blend. whenever, whenever the church was established, there was a lot of conflict, because Jews were converting to Christianity, accepting Jesus as the Messiah, as divine as as the Son of God, and so crucified and resurrected, they put their faith in him, okay. And the other side is you have the Jews, which were waiting for this Messiah. And then you have the Gentiles, everyone else, a lot of them worship pagan gods. Now, a lot of them were raised in culture that was contradictory to the Jewish heritage. And so now all of a sudden, that Christ has come. A lot of Paul's ministry is actually sharing the gospel to these Gentiles, and churches are created, and these groups of Gentiles are, are coming to church alongside which hadn't happened yet with these newly converted Jews. And so you've got Jews and Gentiles that are all Christians coming to church together. And so he's he's, he's communicating the who is the church that it's no longer by ancestry or bloodline, but it's through faith. And so it's, it's really important understand that though, that you, this is the Gentiles, you no longer foreigners, and strangers. But what do you get the opportunity to do as a believer in Jesus Christ, your fellow citizens with God's people? This is Ephesians, two, verses 19 through 20. And so understanding that it doesn't matter where you've been, it doesn't matter where you've come from, it doesn't matter your level of baggage, or your history. It's faith in Jesus Christ that allows you now to be with God's people, in community, as the church. And then in First Corinthians 1218 to 21 It says that, in fact, God has placed the part in the body, every one of them just as He wanted them to be, we could spend a lot of time. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body, the I can't say to the hand, I don't need you. And the hand cannot say the foot that I don't need you. And the reality is, is that God is bringing people together, if we actually acknowledge that He's sovereign, if we believe that he rules and he reigns, then we also understand through that sovereignty, as he brings people together in a local context, that believe and are saved and empowered by him through the Holy Spirit, that we are called to this church. And so you can't passively just attend it. You can't just sit and consume it and use it. You can't treat the bride like a prostitute, that there's a purpose for you in this congregation of believers. And so, the church who is the church, who is a biblical church, these are people that have been born again, that have committed to a local congregation that recognize they have a unique purpose, a unique gifting that is necessary for the body to operate in health. And so when we sit and we try to define who it is, in the context of a biblical church, we allow God to do that. And he does it through multiple passages. But these are two that we're just going to speak to. Yeah.
Tuck Choate 21:47
So then his next point is, is what is a biblical church. And so this is this is the question that we normally ask right? That I would think because we usually start there. That's right. Yeah, exactly. So the idea of what is a biblical church. And he went on to note which I had never really realized. He says, the Bible does not provide a specific verse with the exact specific definition of the church.
Bennett Holloway 22:12
Right. blew me away. So there's not there's not a clear prescription or a blueprint to just do this stuff. Yeah. Right. Man, thank God, honestly, because church here in North Carolina is drastically different than church in Zimbabwe, right. And church in the context of 1400, Germany, is drastically different than church in California today. And so there's, there's a, there was a differentiation, even in Corinthians compared to Ephesians. If you jump all the way to Revelation, and you see the seven churches, there's there's, there's a differentiation between these contexts, because each person is unique, and beautifully and wonderfully made. And each person that's a believer in Jesus Christ, having received a downpayment, a deposit of the Holy Spirit, that they were sealed with upon their salvation, they're empowered for unique things that God has predestined and put before them. And so knowing that each person is made uniquely, and the church body is made up of uniquely made empowered people, then each body is going to be different, like the churches are going to be different. Right? Right. And so there's one thing we didn't we didn't hit right before the what is that called out body, that there is a separation that has been avoided in our current context, western church, that, that if someone can go sit, US and consume, and leave, thinking that that is all that God wanted of them. And they can do that for years. Decades, never commit to the church. Never be held accountable by brothers or sisters in Christ, and the context of the church. Then there's a disconnect. And so what I loved about how he described it, is is this this called out body, this this, this, these, these called out people? And if you think through even the process of salvation, right, if He predestined before the creation of all things, these saints that were called out, our names are on the scroll right? And so these called out people that were drawn unto Him by His grace, that through faith have received salvation, empowered and equipped in every way for the work that God has for them. These called out people If we understand the heart of the person that's calling the why. And if we understand that there are people that are called, it's not passive, it's intentional. And the objective is to accomplish the mission, then we can better understand the what this is what we do, soapbox just for a second, this is what we do. Okay? We try to do the very thing with church that we do in our lives, that sometimes we do, as we're growing up and going through academics that we do in relationships that we do on social media that we do at work, we attempt, we find the very rubric that defines success. And we focus more on accomplishing that task to get that grade to get that promotion to be perceived in that way, as successful, as happy as a healthy relationship. And we, we avoid the actual internal discipleship oriented growth, because it's difficult. So if I can get the results of something, before having to be developed to be turned into something that generates those results, I'm going to do the pathway of least resistance. And I experienced this a lot in school, if all I had to do was memorize how to get the answer that gets me the grade, I don't actually learn the process of learning. So what I'm doing is I'm just regurgitating a thing, rather than comprehending how to come to a solution in a problem. We see it we see it in. I love I wanna love it, love it, love it. Love Awana love programs in our childhood education system where we really work towards memorizing Scripture, I think it's really, really important. I love I love getting to see my children be discipled in our ministries here, whether it be TCA, or weekday preschool, or Sunday morning preschool or temple kids. They're in like all of these things. And I love seeing all the different ways my children are not only being shown how to be a follower of Christ, but also having a lot of fun doing it. They're learning and growing. And they're contributing to conversations. And they're, they're having moments where they're teaching me, they're I'm getting to see beautiful glimpses of a child that sees God. And I just love that and love that. But there are also times when they're just missing it. And so one of my sons rattles off a Bible verse. I'm like, Oh, wow, that's amazing. That was so good. So what does it mean? How do you do that today? When's the last time you didn't do that? And some of these questions. haven't even thought about the actual application of the sermon on Monday, isn't even contemplated it the actual sermon, likely it wasn't even remembered. But it was good. And I want to keep going, because I feel good when I go. I know churches importance, I do the thing. But it's not just doing the thing. It's how you do it, and then how you apply it to the rest of our the areas of our life. So reading a bunch of books, yeah, that's great. You hit a goal, but how the reading has influenced your worldview, how the studying has influenced your processing, or behavior modification, that's the gold. So when it comes back to is what is a biblical church. We sometimes sit there and say, Okay, this is the biblical church, we have to just do these things. Well, then all of a sudden, we've got the same heart that the Pharisees had, that Jesus Christ's attacks is because we're trying to do the stuff, but not allow him to transform how we live. So therefore, we're whitewashed tombs, with brokenness inside, and we're, we're accomplishing the facade, but internally, we're not healthy. We're, we're still on milk. And we should be meat. And there's just this this shift that has to take place because if we start with why is a biblical church, and then we understand the who, then we can better apply and pursue through discipleship, the what is a biblical church. And while the scriptures don't speak to exactly the what is unclad because if it did, man, I bet your money I would be tempted to just do that one thing Over and over and over and over and over and over and not take into consideration the level of maturity and discipleship that has to take place in the individual believer towards maturity in Christ in a specific role as one that's called out to glorify God in the local congregation. I would miss it. Because I'd want to hit the pathway of least resistance. Yeah. Have a checklist. Yeah, just have the checklist, do the religion do the thing, without the heart, and without the tension, and without the growth, without the pain, without the rejection, without the sacrifice that does not align with the person of Christ. It's opposite. And I don't want that.
Tuck Choate 30:44
That was awesome. Thank you. Because, uh, you know, I feel that way too. It's so easy to, you know, I love making lists, I think you just check off the list. And then when you're done with the, when the noon done with the list, you did you did, you're done, you're good to go get a treat. off me on that spoke to me, thank you. So then then he kind of transforms away from these, these W questions. And he goes into some images of the church. And we have used several of them already to kind of describe the church. And as we're talking through these, and he talks through the body of Christ, the bride of Christ, the people of God. And so I would love to kind of dive into these a little bit. Because, you know, anytime that we are talking about God, we have to use human language, we have to use our ideas of things to try and and get a glimpse and some little bit of an understanding of what he's trying to bring over to us. So walk us through the you know, let's start with the first one, the body of Christ, which on the surface seems like a crazy thing. But as we start diving down, I, you know, I love the way that it it gets into our our brains about how we can separate these things. And everyone's a different body part. Christ is the head kind of walk us through and you know, if you will share the verse with us.
Bennett Holloway 32:16
Yeah, so we'll jump in. We'll start in Colossians 118. And it says in he is the head of the body, he's speaking to Jesus Christ, he is the head of the body, the church, he is the beginning, the first born from the dead, that in everything, he might be preeminent. So this perspective that you have written down as the image of the body points us to the churches unity, and illustrates how the church may be one with its members, while its members are still diverse. So this idea behind we are the body, but he is the head, that he may be preeminent. And what makes
Tuck Choate 33:02
all the decisions right tells us where to look what to do, where to go.
Bennett Holloway 33:06
So what if we are not intentional about this? We are in a culture and we are wired in a way that wants to worship man. We see it all the way back in the people of God. Whenever they are delivered from Israel, or from Egypt, when they're delivered from Egypt before once they hit Israel. They're in the Promised Land. And their god did everything above and beyond giving grace given grace, given grace, through their ignorance through their disobedience, and inevitably, inevitably leading a generation into this promised land that was established with Abraham, right? So all of a sudden, they're there. And the people of God say, ah, we want a king. We want to King and they wanted to King for two reasons. They wanted a man to be their king, rather than God for two reasons. The first one is because they want to look like everyone else. Well, they all have kings, but we don't have a king while the King of Kings is sitting there saying I just delivered, right? And the second reason is because they wanted a warrior. They quickly forgot the one who not only desires but has been fighting the battles. That's God. He fights for us. And so these people begin to put into motion begging God, give us a king. And we continue to see this process of worshiping the leader rather than their God. And we see this in the context of the modern church to how we Can over glorify sheep that are leading a flock, when he is the perfect shepherd. And so when it says that he is the head of the body, the church, Scripture means that he is the one that should be leading. And if we ever find ourselves in a point of elevating the word of a man over the Word of God, or justifying the sin of man, because of his position, then we're in an unhealthy spot. Yeah. And we don't understand that the body is only functioning when the right person is at the head. And that's Christ. Anytime
Tuck Choate 35:47
a, a body part does something on its own, without the head controlling actively or passively controlling what is happening, you have a terrible medical condition going on.
Bennett Holloway 36:04
It's usually diagnosed and surgeries required.
Tuck Choate 36:06
Right, right. I mean, you know, just lately, I've had, you know, my knees been giving me difficulties, and it'll kind of give out when I'm going up the stairs or something like that. And I think actively of like, you know, this, it's going rogue like, I am telling it what to do, and it's doing something different. And it requires, like you said, intense medical, medical intervention for this. And we don't always see that with the body of Christ. As soon as one body part one member starts wanting to do something on their own, or to be something that they're not, or like you were saying, trying to trying to take over the head position. You know, we see that when, when a church splits and people follow, follow the preacher, wherever that person is going. It's unhealthy. That's right. So
Bennett Holloway 36:54
understanding that Jesus Christ is the head is pivotal. And it's something that's easily forgot, as we do the best that we can to worship Him in the context of the church. And then in First Corinthians chapter 12, verses 24 through 26, it says, which are more presentable parts do not require, but God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. If one member suffers, all suffer together, if one member is honored, rejoice together. And so this speaks to in Ephesians, chapter four, it also addresses this, but the unity, the same unity that Jesus prays for in his priestly prayer, near the end of his life, as he prays for the unity of all those that will believe in him, that all those that will believe the testimony of the dislike of the apostles, all a praise for us, the modern day church, that we would be one, just as He and the Father are one. And so he's praying for that unity, the preservation of that unity. And in here, it clearly states through the writings of Paul, the church in Corinth, that unity is required for health. Because you can't divide, you can't chop off, you can't. And that when what happens there is when one struggles that we bear that with each other. And in one is honored man, we celebrate and rejoice as a brother or sister in Christ is honored. And so it's very important to see that the body of Christ, that imagery that we see all throughout the New Testament, this body, it continues to link to overall health orientation, headship, but also uniqueness and beauty. Because each appendage, each function, each joint, each bone, each ligament, all these different organs or systems, all of them actually add to the health and are required for operation of the body itself. And it's a beautiful image that we get to see throughout Scripture. Yeah,
Tuck Choate 39:09
I got a very good image of this last week, I was running through my house and kicked my wall and broke my little toe. And my little, little tiny toe, when it when it felt that it wasn't just, you know, the other toes that were right next to it, that felt it was my little pain. My entire body became all about this little toe, from the top of my head. Everything stopped what it was doing, and focused on this toe. Because, you know, as ridiculous as that is to view it here, I think in a real way when one of our members has an issue. Everyone can be a part of that to help lift them up to help bring them along. And it speaks to, especially with small groups that you have that group of people that know you and love you, you can lean on and do life with. Because it's, it's almost impossible for, you know, 2000 people to know about each individual person, right? Yep. But in a small group you can. And so just another plug in, find your small group, find your people find, find your do life with them, if you understand the know and know,
Bennett Holloway 40:24
if you understand the why understand the who, and understand the what, then joining a small group, it's clear, especially in the context of our church at Temple, yeah, it doesn't make sense not to, you can't do the who you can't do the why. And you can't be a part of the what if you're not known.
Tuck Choate 40:49
So just as a quick plug, again, quick aside, before we dive into the next point here, we did just have small group Sunday at our church here, which is when we had every every small group had a little placard out in the lobby, you could go up and sign up and it is not too late. They are still listed on the website,
Bennett Holloway 41:09
you can go to temple dot church hit on small groups, and you can see all of the things that we have to offer. In terms of small group ministry. We have something around 40 different groups that meet on shirt on church property, but also in homes in communities. And a lot of them study different things topically, or are driven to agent stage. target demographic, so we got a lot of things available for people. And almost I mean, we've we've, we've got plenty of space. So it's good. Absolutely. All right.
Tuck Choate 41:44
The next metaphor that we have is that the church is the bride of Christ, and you kind of mentioned that is, you know, there's a relationship, there is a commitment to one another, the bride is committed to the husband, being Jesus, you know, kind of walk us through that idea. So,
Bennett Holloway 42:03
so there's a couple ways that the church being referenced as the bride parallels, the second coming of Christ. Right, the groom returning for his bride, but then also, it parallels the relationship between husband and wife in marriage, and the relationship of Jesus in the church. So we'll hit both of those. So Revelation 19 Seven, says, Let us rejoice and exalt and give Him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. And this is speaking to the coming of Christ, the second coming. And as we're working towards becoming prepared as the bride for the groom, the bride groom that's about to come and take his bride, that we're going to rejoice and exalt and exulting give Him the glory. So what's beautiful about this verse right here is it accomplish, it acknowledges the why Christ in the process of understanding, the what and the who. So this verse right here, Revelation 19, seven, it walks through all of this stuff, and so that it brings a clear relationship between the anticipation and the excitement of those that are called out that are glorifying the name of Jesus Christ, but also recognize that we're waiting for him to return our groom. And then, in Ephesians, 531, through 32, it says, Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh, this mystery is profound. And I'm saying that it refers to Christ and the church, this understanding that we are one body, that those that are saved, that have accepted the sacrifice that Christ has paid, and the lordship of him in our lives that have the opportunity to participate in the partaking of communion in the breaking of the bread and, and the shedding of His blood, the body and the blood to the bread, and the wine that we through that unity, understand that we are one. And there's a parallel between husband and wife, and church and bride and I love to zoom out a little bit more because then when I think about husband and wife, man looks at her, God looks at man and says, It's not good for him to be alone. And so there's this beautiful relationship and development that we see in the established covenant of marriage and then this beautiful relationship, and that we see in the establishment of the church. earch and the followers of Christ in that in that covenant of the New Testament, and the the consistent connections between the bride and the groom, between the church and Jesus Christ are prevalent throughout the New Testament, as well.
Tuck Choate 45:20
Absolutely. So let's talk through. Another example that he gives us is we are called the people of God. And you know, in the Old Testament, the people of God meant something different than it does now. And in the New Testament, you know, it used to be the end, you kind of alluded to it before, it used to be a lineage, a bloodline. And now it is based off our beliefs, our commitments, our faith, our faith. Yeah. And it's, it's changed very much. I think, a lot of things if we were just to kind of give a broad categorization of the Old Testament versus New Testament is it used to be fleshly, the sacrifices were made fleshly we were based off of who we were and who we were born to. And in the New Testament is it is faith based it is who we believe what commitments we have made, and who we put our faith in. And so this people of God refers to that as well. So talk us through, you know, how that understanding of the church as the people of God in that new sense, impacts our sense of belonging and responsibility.
Bennett Holloway 46:38
Yes, so when we're called the people of God, a lot of the epistles are speaking to. Paul describes it as, as a great mystery that was fully revealed through the resurrection of Christ. And it's this. It's this understanding of, even if you start with Abraham, and the covenant that got the promise that God made to Abraham, your descendants will be as numerous as the stars in the sky, if anything's going through, and he's talking about the breakthrough that will take place, and that nations and peoples will be benefited by this relationship that he has with God and His obedience. And as you work through, we begin to understand that through the bloodline of Jewish ancestry, a lot of it we can see in the book, or in the Old Testament, but as you looked at that lineage, in Matthew, as you look at it in Luke, it all inevitably points to this Messiah that is born, that now through His sacrifice has made salvation, the benefits of being the people of God, now accessible to all those who put their faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. So in first Peter to nine through 10, it says, But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for His own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him, who called you out of the darkness and into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people, once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. And so, in this passage, it's talking through and acknowledging what we are as the chosen people of God. And it's difficult to even comprehend, that he would choose us. For a lot of us, that's the hurdle of accepting. Because I think it's a scheme of the enemy, as the accuser, to condemn, to challenge to speak against to remind you have to declare you as disqualified or not worthy. So accepting this is really tough for a lot of us, that He chose us and that we're a royal priesthood, a holy nation of people for His own possession. For what purpose that we may proclaim the excellence of him, that we may bring Him glory, which goes back to the why that we can do the why of a biblical church. So we are a people of God. The last one that we're going to hit is we're representatives of God's kingdom. And the reason why we're gonna land the plane on this one. And this is the reason why this one I think is the culmination to all things is because at our church if you don't know this, that, that we, we wholeheartedly believe in the mission that Jesus Christ began, through his teaching and in the movement that began to take place by him introducing the kingdom of God, in experiencing what God's dominion in the lives of our people and our own perspectives to God as our King and our Lord, that that we are also representatives of this, that we are ambassadors in that capacity. So Matthew 1619, says, I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatever you bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven. And whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. There is a specific level of authority that we've been commissioned with as representatives of God's kingdom, through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit, so that His will is done. This isn't something that's wielded, or name it or claim it. This isn't about being successful or getting money. It's about accomplishing the why this is what happens, right? We can read this. And then we can go straight to focusing on myself. But if we start with the why, will understand the holistic purpose of glorifying the Father. And we are nothing in comparison to that pursuit. And because we're called out because we desire to glorify Him, because we want people to know the very truth that we've been saved by. He has commissioned us as representatives for that. Not for us to be comfortable, not for us to be successful, not for us even to be healthy. That's for God to be glorified. That's all of it. And that is very contradictory to a lot of churches, religions, worldviews, theologies. But that's, that's biblical church.
Tuck Choate 52:24
When it takes a lot of pressure off of us, I don't have to be perfect. I just have to glorify God, I can do that. Well,
Bennett Holloway 52:30
there's, there's, there's a, there's a shift out place, right. And it's in the process of glorifying God, that actually sanctification takes place, that we look less like ourselves, and more like him, as time goes on. So what's the natural fruit of this? It's righteousness. It's Christ's likeness, it's, it's doing the will of God. What is contradictory to these things? Sin. It's a, it's, you're getting to the same place by not looking at the what first, your understand the why you're getting the who, you understand the what. But you're accepting the reality that he has commissioned us. If you start in different order, you're gonna get wackadoodle, theologies and applications here. And you're going to miss that verse and Miss apply it, honestly. So it's a beautiful thing. But what's tough about this as as representative of God's kingdom, we also, man, there's something that is so healthy, that is so necessary, that is oftentimes avoided in the context of local Community Church. And that's accountability. And I'm not talking about I'm talking about ecclesiology. At this point, I'm talking about the church structure. There's differing views of that. But what I am talking about are butts in seats, being willing to look to our brothers and sisters to our right and left and say, and give them the authority to call you out. To know you, to see you. Personally, I think that's best found in the context of a tightly knit small group that builds that trust and relationship with one another. I don't think that needs to happen. With our 1000 people in the Worship Center on Sunday. I don't think that's the right play. You may come off a little, little too aggressive, a little weird, right? But accountability is actually necessary. And so I'm gonna read a passage. It's a little bit longer but If it's the one that he taught through, and it's important that we all understand. So, here we go, Matthew 1815, through 20. If your brother sins against you, if your brother sins against you go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen, even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector context is important. Okay, truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. And whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again, I say it to you if to earth or if two of you agree on earth, about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven, For where two or three are gathered in my name. There I am, among them. A couple of these verses are misused and misapplied that make weird church practices and incorrect theologies. So what we see here is an opportunity of brothers in Christ holding brothers incorrect brothers or sisters, right? fellow brothers or sisters in Christ having the opportunity to hold each other accountable. What does that require? That requires a difficult conversation with someone that could misunderstand you that could get defensive, but requires us acknowledging that there was something that happened that was wrong. If people sit there and say, we're not supposed to judge anyone, they're missing the reality of personal relationships and edification that takes place in the context of the local body, as those that are called out that desire to glorify God, it matters much less about the opinions of man, when we recognize the mission of God, and we're part of it. And it's for His glory that we bring to our brother or sister, the offense that we experienced personally, is for His glory. And, and we see a prescription here of do it one on one first, and if there's repentance and restoration and reconciliation, then you've won a brother the praise God, and if and if he doesn't listen, to bring a couple more with you, so that you for his soul for for his character, for us, Christ's likeness, can bring up these things and, and if he doesn't, then inevitably, what you're going to have to do is you're gonna have to reject Him. Because He shouldn't reap the benefits of being a part of this fellowship. If he's choosing to live in a way that's contradictory to the very nature and the mission of God. You're choosing self over glorification of God. But when this is done in the right way, God blesses this. And when, in the context of this moment, when two or three are gathered in my name in the midst of church discipline, or accountability in the context of the local body, there I am, among them. Even accountability in and of itself glorifies the father accomplishes the mission. And in that process, it prepares the bride for the coming of the group, As iron sharpens iron. So there is a place for this, specifically understanding that each of us represent Him. And if in our representation of him, we give a skewed, distorted, messed up version of our incredibly sovereign and awesome God, then we need to be able to be comfortable having those conversations with one another in the process. Not expecting everyone to just never sent but appropriately seeing sin and allowing our hearts to break and have conversations to call it out with people that we are one with to accomplish the mission of glorifying God.
Tuck Choate 59:35
Well, to to close this out, I wanted to quote Dr. Ewart because I thought it was a nice phrase to kind of wrap things up. He said, join him and then join her. Join Jesus first and foremost, that's that's where it has to be and then join the church join. And if that's here, that's awesome. If you believe in what we're doing here, if you need those next steps if you need help meaning Jesus joining him. That's that first step, reach out to us, if you would like to, if you've joined him, and now you want to join the local body here, reach out to us. We can help you with that. Ultimately, though, we just want to close out we want to thank you for joining us today as we explore the the aspects of this true church. And we hope to have you again next week as we continue our journey through God's word, and we continue this sermon series that Dr. You're just walking us through. We haven't been able to record for the last couple of weeks, but all of the sermons have been profound. They've been excellent. So take a chance to to listen to those those are on the website if you missed those. And hopefully next week, we will continue our weekly analysis and diving deeper as we go into these. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Temple talk. We hope that Digging into God's Word together has enriched your perspective and broad encouragement. If you have any questions or topics you'd like to hear discussed on the podcast, feel free to email them at Temple talk at Temple dot church. You can also visit our website at Temple Baptist Church for more resources. We pray God will continue to bless you and your loved ones as you seek Him in Scripture. We'll see you next time on Temple Talk.