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USDN Podcast is a cinematic indie comics interview series hosted by the USDN_Chairman and the Council of Nerds spotlighting the creators, storytellers, and worldbuilders shaping the future of independent comics.
Each episode dives beyond headlines into the real journeys behind the books from Kickstarter launches and creative struggles to the philosophies driving today’s indie storytelling movement.
This isn’t about rumors or recycled news.
It’s about the people creating the worlds.
Through in-depth conversations, creator spotlights, and crowdfunding discussions, USDN explores:
• The rise of indie comics
• The business of crowdfunding
• The art of worldbuilding
• The realities of independent storytelling
USDN is where indie comics come to life for the fans, by the creators, and powered by the community.
You are listening to the USDN on the
DFPN.
Bye.
What is up, everybody,
and welcome to the United States
Department of Nerds,
where we are for the people,
by the people, and of the people.
And tonight,
we welcome back a returning member of the
Council, writer, publisher,
Ben Lacey of Byton Comics.
Over the years,
Ben has brought readers everything from
over-the-top action at Shark of War to the
brutal alternate history world of Samson.
What began as a single story has grown
into a complete trilogy,
and now he's returning to kickstart it
with Samson number three,
Samson versus the new Reich.
This isn't your typical superhero story.
It's a tale of revenge, war, power,
and the cost of fighting monsters,
both human and otherwise,
in a world where history took a very
different path.
Tonight,
we'll discuss the origins of Samson,
completing the trilogy,
lessons learned from previous campaigns,
alternate history storytelling
crowdfunding and kind of what's next for
both samson and the growth happening at
byton comics universe ladies and gentlemen
the council of nerds is now in session
ben my friend welcome back thank you for
having me good to be here
always happy to have you on.
And I keep saying trilogy,
and I can't remember if it's actually a
trilogy or if it's longer.
It's more of an ongoing.
I mean,
it's going to be at least seven or
eight issues.
That's what I thought.
This issue does not wrap everything up.
It is a bigger issue than we've done
in the past and
It involves a lot of action,
but it's not the close of the story.
Not the close of the story,
but it is the third in the series.
So that makes it the trilogy.
And I think that's where my head was.
This is what I get from writing late
at night.
But let's catch up, Ben.
Oh, sure.
It's been a little while since your last
appearance.
Last time you were on,
I believe we talked about the Vicious
Vincents, and that was a success,
which I'm happy to say.
I got mine.
Beautiful books, as always.
But what else have you been working on?
I know you did Shark Award just previous
to that,
and now we're landing on Samson issue
number three.
Yeah,
so Vicious Vincents number four closed
out,
and I've
you know, given out all the rewards,
the books published.
So now we're moving on to Samson number
three and Samson number three is complete.
So as soon as the Kickstarter is over,
I should soon after send out all the
rewards and then shark award.
Ten is next up.
And I plan on having that book complete
also before the Kickstarter.
So if people aren't familiar with Samson,
And this is probably what I'm... Well,
I can't say that because I kind of
like all your stories, to be fair.
But Samson is a very special one.
But where...
How has this project evolved since we last
talked about issue number two?
Well, it's, you know...
If you saw the cliffhanger ending of issue
number two,
we're going to move into some resolution
on that.
We also saw there was a big court
trial involved in issue number two as
well.
And we're going to see the aftermath of
that.
And in the past,
since this story follows him both as a
youth in World War II,
And at the end of the Cold War
as an adult trying to track down these
Nazi war criminals,
we're going to see him as a youth
in World War II battling,
getting to battle in World War II for
the first time.
Because in issue two,
he and his brother escaped Auschwitz and
they're actually going to join the war
effort this time.
And we're going to see how that goes,
which is why this issue is actually
twenty-eight interior pages rather than
twenty-four,
because I wanted to have more time to
show more of the war.
and follow that as well.
So there's a lot of action in this
movie,
both World War II action and classic
superhero throwdown action in this book.
Which is featured in the thumbnail of
today's episode.
Oh, good.
But...
I've loved this series so far.
Issue one started us out with the
experimental phase and how the Nazis were
experimented on children.
Issue two,
Samson's basically grown up and is now
handing Nazis their butts.
And then moving to issue three now,
we're getting some flashback and some
modern day stuff going on.
And like I said,
I love all your books,
like Shark of War,
freaking just an amazing concept.
The Vicious Visions,
I love it because it reminds me of
that old school, nineteen seventies,
nineteen eighty B movie pulp.
you know grindhouse type of action and
that one drive it as charlie's angels
meets the a team if you classic angels
meets the a team where every one of
the angels this time has a unique skill
set instead of just dude that's a perfect
and then you have samson here who is
um
the hero of Jewish origin who started his
life, his superhero story in Auschwitz.
And it's just such a fun book so
far.
I love the fact that you actually touched
on real life history in this book.
And it's really just such a unique story.
Oh, thank you.
Biting Comets has really been associated
with all these really awesome and unique
projects over the years.
Has the mission of Byton Comics changed,
or are you still locked in with the
same mission you started with at Byton
Comics?
Pretty much.
I mean,
originally it just started out with Shark
of War,
and I was just doing it all myself.
you know, but then I realized I needed,
I wanted help on the art side.
So since then, you know, I,
I now have other artists do it doing
harsh, harsh,
great people who does shark of war,
Nico Turan and harsh does Samson and
vicious vixens, harsh stroke does, uh,
does shark of war.
I bring in some other cover artists
occasionally as well.
So it's pretty much the same vision.
It's expanding a little because
originally,
Samson and Shark of War and Vicious
Vixens,
I had them focused as two separate
universes.
But since then,
they're now one integrated universe.
And in issue three of Samson,
we're going to see a character
who's appeared in both Shark of War and
Vicious Vixens make a surprising
appearance that will start to show how the
universe ties together,
because Samson takes place between,
you know,
World War Two and the end of the
Cold War in the nineties.
So it'll start to move closer to where
Shark of War and Vicious Vixens are
roughly in the present.
So this is going to start to show
us how this forms one coherent universe
from from that time in World War Two.
to through the Cold War when Samson is
an adult fighting these Nazis who are
trying to make new super villains to the
present when Shark of War and Vicious
Vixens is happening.
So it should hopefully wind up being one
fairly seamless universe.
To help that,
there's bonus features in the back of
Samson
basically throws storylines, you know,
kind of just, you know,
giving you a write-up,
an expanded write-up of some of the,
filling in some of the background history
of the universe and stuff,
kind of a history of the biting comics
universe from, you know.
Yeah, that's really cool.
And that's...
Go ahead, Ben.
I'm sorry.
It's kind of masquerading as a New Yorker
article, you know,
doing a story on Samson's daughter,
the Omega girl,
who we first met in issue two.
And, you know,
the problems Samson is having with his
daughter,
who's something of a troubled young woman.
Mm-hmm.
I like it.
And I remember like I can't remember if
it was on your last visit or the
first visit where we talked about how the
universe is going to eventually start
being connected.
So it's cool that we're getting that issue
that's kind of going to bring them all
together now.
And for readers who were just now
discovering Samson today, what is Samson?
Samson is the story of a young boy
and his twin brother who were taken to
Auschwitz as children.
and experimented on by the Nazis.
This part actually happened.
The Nazis really took twins and they
really did experiment on them,
not just at Auschwitz,
but at other camps as well.
There were a variety of medical
experiments done on camp prisoners.
Of course, in real life,
those experiments were mostly junk science
who killed a lot of people and hurt
them.
This is a comic book story.
The purpose of these experiments is the
Nazis want to try and create a super
soldier,
and they're using these kids as guinea
pigs in their effort to do it.
Unfortunately for them,
they succeed beyond their expectation,
and Samson, whose real name is Sam,
and his brother Saul both gain powers,
and they are able to escape Auschwitz,
something we see in issue two.
And now in issue three,
we're actually going to get to see them
join the fight with their powers in World
War II.
At the same time, in the later,
the later,
After the Cold War it's discovered that
the Nazis are trying there's a new group
of Nazis who are trying to recreate this
this formula to make new super soldiers
and that some of the super soldiers the
Nazis did make during World War two may
have survived and escaped and he is trying
to hunt them down and of course he
actually succeeded in capturing one of
them and in the first issue they tried
him in the second issue and
And as we discover,
there's problems with who they found.
And this also follows some real life
history.
The trial of John Degemonic,
I'm probably pronouncing that wrong,
who was actually a Nazi who was found
in the United States.
He was deported to Israel for war crimes.
He was accused of being something,
someone called Ivan the
terrible concentration camp guard.
The trouble was he was a concentration
camp guard,
but he wasn't the one they accused him
of being.
So the whole legal problem became a
morass.
They eventually did convict him,
but by then he was like,
ninety years old and he died while he
was out on appeal.
So the case resolved pretty
unsatisfactorily.
But that's kind of the inspiration for
some of what you read in issue two
and now in issue three of the book.
So what makes this alternate history world
different from traditional World War II
stories that people may be familiar with?
Well, I mean,
it's kind of like the Marvel universe or
the DC universe.
The war follows a similar trajectory to
what happened in our world.
But now you've got superheroes involved.
And both sides have their own super beings
fighting in it.
And we'll see some of those going forward
as well, more of those going forward.
In fact, the cliffhanger to issue three,
you'll get to see some pretty cool
characters involved in that cliffhanger.
I don't want to give too much away.
But the general history still follows our
history.
The Nazis were there.
They fought and they lost.
But unlike in the real world,
the Nazis are making a comeback.
at the end of the Cold War, which,
you know,
happened similarly in that world as well.
There was a, you know,
there was a Cold War.
There was the Iron Curtain.
A lot of documents were hidden behind the
Iron Curtain only to be discovered after
the reunification of Germany, which,
you know,
consistent with what actually did happen.
They did find out new information about
what happened to people during the war
because they were able to access East
German records,
because East Germany wound up in
possession of Berlin.
Yeah.
So so in a similar sense here,
except it's much more dramatic because
some of those records contain secrets for
how to make superhuman beings and that
that information is now going to fall into
the wrong hands potentially.
So this campaign subtitle is Samson versus
the new Reich without giving away too
much, giving away spoilers or anything,
who or what is the new Reich in
your book?
Well,
you'll find out who the leader is in
issue three.
But basically,
they're someone who escaped World War II,
which happened, and fled to South America,
also based on real history,
except they are trying to recreate the
right by
finding superhumans and also finding the
way that they made Samson and creating a
brand new army of superhumans in an effort
to take over.
So it's very much again based on people
who existed and did escape during World
War II and got away.
But obviously in this universe,
they're going to be more successful as
villains than they were in ours.
yeah so when readers we'll go back to
issue one in on this question here when
readers first meet samson who is he as
a person and how is he evolving from
this into the series well some of that's
gonna you're gonna find out as we walk
through through time but when we first
meet him he's kind of retired from
superhero work and some of that is is
due to issues with his daughter
and his fan he's got a lot of
family issues some of which we we read
about in issue two and we'll see a
little more of in issue three um so
so he's semi-retired from hero work but
then he gets told you know there's this
this nazi who we think has superpowers
living in chicago um can you help go
get him for us so we don't have
to have half the city destroyed in a
battle with a superhuman in the army
So, you know, he reluctantly first,
he doesn't believe it's real,
but he reluctantly agrees to go do it.
And he he finds out, wow,
this is this actually is is happening.
It's somebody has escaped and he is going
to apprehend him.
So that's how we meet him as an
adult.
As a child,
we meet him first as he's been brought
into Auschwitz after he's been separated
from his parents,
who unfortunately do not survive.
Only he and his brother have survived.
So, yeah,
so if you go to the Kickstarter site,
you can actually read all of issue one
for free at the very top of the
page.
There is a link,
and it will open up a Google Doc
for you.
You don't have to sign up for my
newsletter or any of that other stuff.
Just click on the link.
The Google Doc opens.
You can download the book.
You can read it on the computer.
You can email it to your friends if
you want.
It's the full issue plus bonus features
telling you about the real life history
behind the story.
I highly recommend people read issue one.
If not for anything else,
it's the real history of the people.
Some of these characters are based off of.
And just some of the cruel stuff that
they did in their lifetime is very
eye-opening.
So I cannot recommend it enough for
people.
It's free.
Not going to cost you a buck.
It's about a twelve, fifteen minute read.
go read this book, if not for anything,
then the bonus content of this book
because it's very eye-opening for you.
But with this,
what challenges come with writing a
character who possesses
incredible power while also kind of just
keeping him as a relatable person i mean
he's semi-retired because he he is a you
know a father who has a troubled daughter
like what was that like as you you
know developed this character well you
know the the this the you the biting
comics universe you know that it's quite
not not quite as power the heroes aren't
quite as they're very powerful but they're
not quite as powerful as like superman or
something like that you know
He isn't flying at the speed of light.
He isn't going into space.
Uh,
it's more like some of the Marvel heroes,
like I'd say like the thing or something
like that, you know,
that kind of level of power.
Um, so, so while he's very powerful,
you know, he's not invincible.
Um,
he also has a lot of personal problems.
Um, we, in a second issue,
we meet his wife and we find out
about what happened with his marriage.
um which is you know something of a
tragedy we find out what's happening with
his children um both something of a
tragedy uh for him um so he's he's
had you know a lot of you know
issues personal issues in his life you
know that you know they're more superhero
related some of them than what we have
to deal with but you know having having
troubled children you know having uh
you know, marital problems.
Those are things that all of us have
to, you know.
It's definitely related.
Related to.
So that's kind of how we keep him,
you know, more grounded.
And also, you know,
he lives in a world where there are,
you know,
The villains are very powerful.
They're very powerful villains too.
So he's not able to just win necessarily
easily all the time.
There's large conspiracies going up
against him that he has to deal with.
He has to earn the wins is what
we're saying here.
So at the end of the day,
do you see Samson as a hero,
anti-hero or somewhere kind of lingering
in between those?
I think he's a hero,
but I think he's more of a, uh,
you know, a re more realistic hero.
Um, you know, I mean, you know, that.
a lot of the World War II vets
like Audie Murphy and stuff like that.
They were heroes,
but then if you read their biography,
some of them had some real problems too.
Audie Murphy's a good example of that.
Um, so yeah, I,
I view him as a hero.
You know,
his brother might be viewed more as a,
as a little bit of an anti-hero.
He, he operates more, you know,
who you'll,
you'll get to meet more of in issue
two and three.
He's operating more in a,
in a gray space, you know,
and you know, that, you know,
in terms of,
of things with Israel that some people,
you know, will probably not like,
you know, depending on your view of that,
but,
but he operates much more in a gray
space and that's partly because of the
nature of his powers.
um you know he has a different power
set and that kind of puts him in
a different different place so were there
any moments while writing the samson
series that kind of surprised you or you
took the story someplace that you didn't
expect to take it to
A little bit.
This story has been in my mind for
long before Shards of War.
This is probably the one I've had in
my mind for more than twenty years.
So some things have popped in,
details and stuff that I haven't expected
and things like that.
But on the whole,
a lot of it has followed my vision
for it from the beginning.
So but, you know,
some of the stuff in World War Two,
especially like the cliffhanger and at the
end of issue three that I think will
be a lot of a lot of fun
for people as well will be something that
I just kind of came up with more
recently.
Okay.
So you're still evolving the story as
you're going to.
You already had this beginning, middle,
and end planned out.
You're actually evolving this as you're
writing it.
No,
and I intend to make it somewhat open.
If the story, Kickstarter,
obviously hard to fund sometimes.
But if it keeps funding,
I'm probably going to keep writing it for
a fair while.
And then I want to
I want to tie it into a teen
book eventually involving some of these
characters and then stuff like that.
So as we get into the present day,
because Samson is currently taking place
in the nineties and it'll start to move
closer.
The adult Samson will start to move closer
to the present day.
So looking back now,
what lessons have you learned from
creating issue one that's kind of helped
shape issue two and now issue three and
maybe even like issue seven or eight if
we make it there?
Uh, in terms of the books, um,
one thing I've started to do is I've
gotten,
I've decided I was going to have all
my books done ahead before,
before the Kickstarter.
So they're completely finished now.
Um, Samson one, I didn't do that.
Um, and then, you know,
it took a while to get it all
done and get it, get it, um,
colored and finished and everything else.
And to be fair to you,
that was the longest I ever waited for
one of your books.
Everything else,
the campaign ended and I swear I had
it within the next week.
Yeah,
so I decided from now on all my
books are going to be done beforehand.
I like doing, I didn't do that with,
I did that when I was the artist
and I stopped doing it when I wasn't
the artist.
But now I just said,
I'm going to take the risk and I'll
fund it.
you know, ahead of,
ahead of the Kickstarter being finished
to,
to get it done and then hope the
Kickstarter funds.
So I spent back on it, but, uh,
but I really liked for, for instance,
the last issue of Vix, Vicious Vixens,
you know, we had to wait like a,
you know,
a week for credit cards to clear and
for Nico to draw in the, uh, the,
a few people who wanted to be backers
who wanted to be in the book.
And then I had the digital edition out,
you know,
week you know a few days later and
then it was printers and i the printing
the printed books were probably in
people's hands within a month and a half
of the kickstarter ending um if that i
if i swear it doesn't feel like it
was a month and a half because it
might have been less depending on how
quickly the shipping was and stuff like
that because that printer did a pretty
good job turning it around because you
know it took them maybe two weeks
to get the books back to me.
And the books were gorgeous.
Thank you.
And then, you know, I, I kind of,
and he did stuff different on that,
that issue.
And hopefully, you know,
that did really well for you on that
vicious last business, vicious Vincent's,
issue because that book turned out oh
thank you amazing i was really pleased
with it it it did about the same
you know i i did try and do
a couple of different things like uh you
know a not safe for work cover um
which obviously i'm not doing on samson
That would be really awkward for Samson.
Yeah, it's not that kind of book.
For the person who did the same cover,
I also got a fairly popular artist.
I can't say those things paid off, really.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Unfortunately,
I think it brought in a lot of
people.
and they backed but then a lot of
them dropped I had more drop backers that
and on that campaign than any other so
I think that I think people come in
for a cover are not going to be
the hardest core backers yeah so you you
it had a high percentage of drops um
like I said I think the best thing
about it was I had the book done
and ready to go and and you know
and then I you know
as I sent it out,
I was sending people, you know,
notices about Samson being ready to get,
you know, being in prelaunch.
So I was hoping that some of those
people would come over, you know,
even though they're, you know,
even though it's a very different kind of
book and would at least look at Samson
as well.
So I could kind of leverage that and
we'll see how that works out in the
end.
Yeah.
I mean, I mean, it is very,
what's the word I'm looking for?
in today's modern age with everything
going on in the world,
it may not be looked at the same
as it was like maybe five years ago
or ten years ago from that perspective.
And it's kind of crazy because, I mean,
it's a comic book.
Yeah.
It's nothing based on the real world here.
You know,
there's nothing referenced from the real
world here.
So for the historical value of the story.
Right.
And it's kind of wild to me that,
you know,
It's not backlash per se,
but it's perceived without giving it a
chance.
Yeah,
I haven't had a lot of direct backlash,
but occasionally I get a few things that
make me think that could be an issue
with the book.
But there's nothing to be done about it.
The story's the story,
and I'm going to tell it and help
people give it a chance.
Like I said,
that's why I give away issue one for
free.
Yeah, I mean,
I encourage everybody to at least give it
a read because it is fun.
It's a good read.
If anything, the history lesson from it,
you know.
Thank you.
So is there a scene or a moment
in this upcoming issue that you are
especially excited for readers to
experience?
Well, I, like I said,
I think the issue three cliffhanger will,
will have, you know, a lot of people,
you know, pretty excited that, you know,
I don't want, like I said,
I don't want to spoil it.
Yeah.
Don't spoil it.
Um,
I think there's some cool scenes of world
war two combat.
Um,
there's a, you know,
and then the action within the present,
closer to the present with the new Reich,
and that what happens in that fight with
them,
and the reveal of who the leader of
the new Reich is, should also be,
you know, work real well.
And there's some more quiet, you know,
dramatic moments,
I'm kind of pleased with too, you know,
because the with the trial of the Uber
Fuhrer, you know, going badly,
There's some dramatic moments where
Samson's feeling great guilt about what's
happening,
and his brother is really PO'd about
what's happened,
which kind of shows the difference in
their characters and how one is...
much more willing to be a little gray
and what he does and where Sam Samson
feels like he has to uphold brightness,
even though it may be a bad person
who benefits from that.
Yeah.
Let's talk about the Kickstarter.
Ben,
why can backers is spent this campaign?
Well, as always,
you can expect three covers.
Amazing covers, too.
Oh, thank you.
As always,
our covers are inspired by other things.
They're not knockoffs,
but they also have inspiration that comic
readers should find fun.
From the golden age of comics.
Yeah, so there's the cover with, you know,
there's a cover that's a homage to John
Buscema style artwork.
That's the base cover.
He did for people who he's,
he fortunately passed not long ago,
but people who are familiar with his work
and you'll see samples of it on the
Kickstarter page.
He does this very dynamic punching actions
scenes.
So we tried to create something very
dynamic in the action with that cover.
that kind of gives you the same kind
of feel of dramatic action.
I thought that would be a really good
base cover for people.
So if it's the cover I'm thinking of,
it's the cover that I used because I
took one of your panels that you sent
me, and I took one of the covers,
and that's what I combined them to make
the thumbnail for this episode, actually.
Oh, okay.
And I –
I'm learning as I go here,
but I was able to pick apart and
get the color scheme and certain things
off the cover and bring it over to
the panel where you see Samson hitting the
dude in the jaw on his head.
It's like kind of fly in like he
has the stretchy neck or whatever.
Yeah.
And, um,
yeah i always thought i love that panel
you know i i do too the moment
i seen that panel the punching in the
guy's neck going at it the moment i
seen that panel i was like i have
to use that some way to make this
thumbnail and so i took that as the
the panel for the background of the
thumbnail and then i pulled the uh the
title right colors and the the lettering
off of it and stuck it
for that panel and did it that way
and i was just like i'm getting actually
i'm kind of getting good at this and
uh but yeah they were like made for
each other so it was like this perfect
fit for each other and i was like
i should do a split where i actually
include the image from that cover on this
as well like kind of like do a
split of it but then i was like
i don't know how the time to
to try to make that work for myself
this time around.
But it's definitely something I'm going to
look at later in the future as I
do more experimentation with things from a
thumbnail perspective,
because I thought that would have been
kind of cool to kind of have it
like where you see him over here punching
the guy's head.
And then you see him over here where
they're kind of like entangled into that
big fight on the cover.
Right.
But I'm excited for all three of these
covers because they're all three
absolutely phenomenal.
Well, thank you.
Yeah,
the second cover also is inspired by World
War II comics,
where the kids are fighting World War II
and a tank is coming at them.
And then the third cover,
we always do a Superman homage.
And this is a little more of an
indirect homage where past covers,
like the Alex Ross one, inspired one,
are very much direct homages.
This is more to an attitude of Superman
covers.
If you read Silver Age Superman,
you've seen covers where it looks like
he's done something horrible.
and everybody's turned against him and
it's like he's he's acting outrageously
and of course when you read the book
at all you know it's not it all
makes sense yeah it's not nothing like
that so we decided to do something like
that for the final cover and and then
that involves that trial scene too so he's
being accused of being it's all books
though you sell something on the front to
bring people in but then when you read
the book you're like oh those people
they'll be ready to hate him
you know and then when they actually read
the story i'm like you can't yeah superman
come on so one of the things we
discussed before is how crowdfunding
changes the relationship between creators
and readers how has your approach to
kickstarter kind of evolved over the years
um well a lot of it is trying
to get more people to uh to to
uh to uh
you know,
sign up for notification on the
Kickstarter before the campaign launches.
You know,
Kickstarter now provides you with
statistics on your percent of backers who
signed up for notification versus those
who signed up later.
And if you get people to sign up
for notification before the campaign
starts, you know, about half of them,
maybe even more, will wind up backing.
Whereas people who come along later,
the percentages drop a lot.
So a lot of it is trying to
get my past backers to sign up for
notification that they're going to back
again and come back.
So obviously, I use the, you know,
the Kickstarter updates from the previous
backers.
I have an email list, of course,
that I, you know,
I keep trying to keep built up to
send to bat people to, you know,
get them asked them to sign up.
So a lot of it's trying to drive
that initial initial turnout.
I still try to do trade updates with
other creators because that kind of
exposes you to a broader audience.
I come on shows like yours more to
try and be exposed to different people who
might back.
I'm trying this time.
I'm actually using a third-party marketing
outfit that has...
Which one did you go with?
Backer Info.
They seem to have a pretty good
reputation.
I've used them before and they did a
pretty good job.
I'm guessing they kind of do the same
thing as Backer Kit does.
Well,
they have their own email lists and stuff
like that.
Gotcha.
And stuff of backers that they keep and
market to.
So that's kind of what that is.
Okay.
That's interesting.
I'm doing a lot less trying to post
on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram than
I used to because I've just not seen
hardly any juice off the squeeze,
especially Twitter and Instagram.
Occasionally I'll...
I'll get something through Facebook.
Instagram's wild because how it's been
working for me lately is I'm capitalizing
off of the people who come on the
podcast.
I do collaborations with them on the
shorts and invite them to the show.
That's really been helping me a lot.
But, yeah,
it's really establishing relationships
with podcasts like mine,
the Long Bots Punk,
and those types of people where they see
your stuff like I do,
and then we immediately just repost it to
our stories.
We share it on Instagram,
and I think that works from that
perspective because that's what really has
been working for me lately.
And it's really just a lot of time.
And I know you just moved in.
I just went to Instagram after you
mentioned that,
and I saw you invited me to collaborate
on a post.
Yeah, I always invite to collaborate.
I hadn't even looked at it.
Yeah, and that's what works.
Oh, of course.
Because like I said, I'm just so...
so not not seeing a lot with instagram
that i you know i barely yeah no
and and by doing the collaborations and
invites to that like that i i think
that works for the most part as at
a better rate than just
when it's a team effort, you know,
and it's,
I know it sounds really weird saying, Oh,
it's a team effort,
but it really is at the end of
the day,
us indie creators sharing each other's
stuff and putting each other's stuff out
there for maybe new eyes to see.
And I think that works a lot better
than us kind of going at it alone.
And that's why I, you know,
we were discussing before we went live,
you know, how I'm doing the, um,
I just got, you know, I was like,
I just need to come across.
I was like, oh, it's food.
But, uh, and I'm like, wait,
I'm talking to you.
But, um, I,
I really do think that works a lot
better than us going at it.
Solo is the invites to collaborate and
accepting those invites.
And then it kind of puts each other
out there.
And it becomes this bigger ecosystem of us
putting each other out there for new eyes
to see and hopefully draw more people.
Similar to the list that floats around of
podcasters who support indie comics and
have indie creators on the show.
Similar to that, only...
on the electronic side of the house the
social media side of the house and uh
i've gotten a lot of growth out of
that and i'm hoping as this continues to
evolve you know everybody grows more and
we all get more eyes on the products
and what we're trying to do so but
did i already ask you what advice you
would give creators preparing for their
first crowdfunding campaign
I think you need to build up an
email list and build up a group of
supporters.
You need to have a free sample.
ready to go uh it's a significant chunk
of of your your work you know i
for my first book i had like a
for shark of war one i had like
a ten page uh um midi comic basically
or the first uh you know basically first
ten pages of the book um ready for
for people to get to give out as
a pdf
And then from then on,
I started giving out the first issue of
all my books whenever I go to a
Kickstarter.
So everybody can read that.
So I think those are the two.
It helps to also be into some,
you know,
I'm in a couple of Facebook groups with,
you know, people who share your stuff,
who are, you know, your fellow,
fellow creating people.
Yeah, I'm in so many groups on there.
That also gives you some context for like
who to go to for printing,
who to go to for how to find
artists if you're not doing,
or letters if you're not doing it all
yourself.
So yeah,
so I think those are the kind of
advice I'd give.
And I really like the Facebook
know people bag on facebook but from an
indie comic creator perspective the groups
on facebook are full for the most part
good people who are willing to help each
other out and give good advice and share
each other stuff right so
yeah yeah that's probably the only reason
that's the reason i'm you know i'm on
facebook more than instagram or twitter
because there is that and you got blue
sky too so connection oh well blue sky
yeah i i look on i look on
blue sky and i i see even less
engagement than on twitter so yeah so blue
skies it's hit and miss at times but
if the like
like i tagged you in like yesterday's post
announcing your appearance again look at
that but that's just how i do business
because it's not about me i mean it
is but it's about the creator coming on
the show to talk about what they have
going on and that's why i try to
do it that way but in you know
at the end of the day it's what
it's all about is you know
sharing each other's stuff and helping
each other get exposure for what we do.
So,
but with issue number three already
complete,
how does that impact fulfillment in your
confidence headed into the campaign now?
well i mean it i'm sure i'm you
know i'm not positive i'm gonna fund but
i think the odds are pretty good at
this point um that we'll make it so
you know i'm fairly confident you know
obviously i'd like to have you know to
be on you know be honest the economics
of a comic book
Merely funding really doesn't cover the
full cost.
You're taking a loss.
If I just come in right at funded
level, I'm taking a loss.
You probably need another five hundred to
a thousand dollars to really
to really feel like you're breaking even.
And that's, you know,
not even accounting your own time or
anything like that, paying yourself,
which I never tried to do, but,
but so yeah, so I'm,
I'm pretty sure we'll fund,
I'll get the book out, you know,
whether we overfund, that would be nice.
I always like to have, you know,
I'd like to have a lot more backers
at a lot smaller dollar amount if
possible,
because I know if I can get that
kind of audience,
maybe they'll buy my other books and
become longer term fans.
That's one of the reasons you'll notice we
didn't talk about it,
but a couple of the tiers I have
are from all my digital or all my
physical where I really offer a good price
on them.
you do i recently i think i bought
most of your library of when i backed
uh shark award number nine and i got
the the hardback of uh shark award like
the two volumes that you have or three
whatever it is and then um but yeah
i think i i have just about your
entire you know thank you
library of books yeah so if you get
my all my books i you know that
the the other books i basically sell at
the same price you you i'd sell them
at a comic-con to you for
But I throw in shipping,
and for US customers, I throw in shipping,
and you get the digital copies,
which the Comic-Con people don't get,
which gives you all the digital books.
So it's a fairly large package of books.
So the price, I think, to that number,
the price is competitive, I think,
with what you get from the big two.
Obviously,
for a single book on Kickstarter,
I can't do that simply.
Yeah, you got your shipping, you know,
I paid, you know,
four times the printing costs they at
least probably.
Yeah, they own their own printing.
Yeah, I mean, they're paying, you know,
fifty cents an issue,
maybe less to print a book, you know,
where it takes me three or four dollars
to print a book.
And that's not counting shipping it and
bagging and boarding and stuff like that,
which adds a minimum of four or five
dollars, even if I use a medium mail.
yeah it shipping is ridiculous i i had
to recently stop um supporting
kickstarters from the uk in other places
because this shipping was costing me
double the book and i'm like this yeah
i mean i i have to add you
know fifteen twenty bucks for for shipping
to to foreign countries too um for my
book you know so you know i try
you know
There's some ways that we can ship a
little cheaper,
so I've tried to keep my price down
for foreign people,
but there's just no way around it.
They've got a fair amount more.
So with Samson number three about to be
in the bullets here in a couple of
weeks,
what's going to be next after Samson issue
three?
Shark of War number ten.
So this will be what I'm calling the
final battle.
um and there'll be a there'll be a
surprising cool surprisingly cool reveal
for for this battle as as the shark
of war gets a big upgrade in his
his capabilities nice and he's gotten some
fantastic upgrades over you know nine
issues to begin with so what are some
of your loan term goes though for biting
comments
Well,
I'd like to have the books be more
profitable.
I don't expect to get wealthy on this.
Fortunately,
my real life job has allowed me to
be able to afford to do this,
because obviously I'm not making a living
on it.
But I'd like to be at least somewhat
profitable, somewhat self-sustaining.
you know, and I'd like to see,
you know, the stories, you know,
people want to, more and more people,
I'd like to see growth.
I'd like to see more and more backers
each issue,
more and more readers each issue,
you know,
so we can continue to expand the
storylines.
But yeah, that's kind of it.
You know, I'm not, don't have, you know,
if
I never got lucky.
And, you know,
if somebody wanted to make a movie out
of one of these stories,
that'd be true or series.
That'd be tremendous.
Yeah.
That's, that's not, you know, required.
That's just, that's just, yeah, let's go.
Let's get a shark or animated series out
there.
Like, you know,
I seriously think shark of war is a
movie would make a, you know, if,
considering how some of these shark movies
have done that's true i think shark of
war you know you know what a modestly
modest but we budgeted movie yeah would do
tremendous it would have to be at one
of those old school grindhouse b movie
styles you know what i'm saying can make
a lot of money and the meg can
make a lot of money yeah exactly i
think a shark of war would would would
would knock them out of the water.
Cause I think, Oh, a hundred percent.
I think it's a better story to be
unhumble here for a moment.
Um, and I, you know,
that's a good humble brag right there.
And I think people would, would,
would go for that.
So if it were, you know,
if it were some kind of, you know,
you know,
movie or you know series on Netflix I
think it would be tremendously come on
Netflix let's do it well but but yeah
that that's that's kind of the dream but
that's you know that doesn't have to
happen but for me to keep going but
yeah that would definitely make it
profitable it would also make it
self-sustaining more self-sustaining but
oh a hundred percent and maybe even retire
from the day job right
Well, I'm already retired,
but from my main job,
I've got some side .
I'm in my close to senior citizen status
now.
Almost time for the discount, right?
But the Indie Comics landscape has changed
significantly over the last few years.
Why opportunities or some of the newer
opportunities that are starting to pop up
within the indie creator world,
like kind of have you decided to be
a part of the community?
I wish I could say I think there's
more opportunities popping up.
I'm not sure that there are.
I think there's more challenges popping
up, but I'm hopeful that...
I think there was a big,
big opportunities during COVID.
A lot of people were interested in comics,
and the big two,
their books weren't as good.
We can debate the reasons why.
off off the show probably yeah yeah but
there were there were their books weren't
as popular going as popular but you know
i think they've gotten you know with the
absolute universe and some stuff like that
i think they're doing better so you know
there's more competition from them there's
some big name creators getting into the
kickstarter space and even some
celebrities like keanu reeves getting the
kickstarter space which
You know, it's good and bad.
It brings more attention, but it also,
you know,
it's a it's a it's a dollar vacuum
vacuuming up the stuff.
So I think, yeah, I think the opportunity,
you know,
is that I think still long term good
comics will will will win out.
So just being able to keep going and
stuff like that,
I think there'll be some fallout, perhaps,
where there's going to be some winnowing
of people.
But if you can keep going and doing
it.
The bubble hasn't burst in a while.
And you'll pop through.
It's one of those where you say that,
and I'm like, you know what?
The bubble really hasn't popped in a
while.
Yeah.
And as always with comic books,
the bubble bursts at some point,
and it recovers within a year or two.
So it's definitely sitting here like,
damn,
there's going to be a bubble soon that
pops,
and it's going to suck for all of
us.
Right.
But until that time,
we're going to continue doing what we
yeah and and i still have no idea
how ai is going to impart all that
because i know people are trying to use
ai to make comic books and i think
there's a lot of rejection of that but
oh yeah and i think they'll continue to
be rejection of that but people are going
to keep trying and yeah like yeah we
were talking beforehand i have gone away
from using ai to create any type of
thumbnail now i'm doing it all myself so
if any of my thumbnails look cool
Let me know because I made it myself.
But what do you think creators kind of
still misunderstand about crowdfunding?
And not just creators,
but the average person out there.
And what are some of those misconceptions
about crowdfunding?
I think some people, first off,
think that it's overpriced.
And I think it's
Like I said,
if you're backing a single issue,
it can't seem expensive because you're
paying notably more than you're paying for
a Marvel book.
But there's options to get a lot more
for your money and to improve your bang,
which is like I said,
why my digital bundles and all my books
are really attractively priced.
They are.
And I think also a lot of people
know discounted as charity or you know
that the quality isn't going to be as
good which is why the hardback of sharka
war is extremely exceptionally freaking
quality like it is amazing quality so i
think so i think they think it's you
know it's it's kind of like the second
third fourth string
And so that's why I give my books
away, my first issues away even,
because I want people to see it.
And I think a lot of people,
if they give it a chance,
will want to read more.
So that's kind of where I come on
that.
If you could go back now and give
yourself any type of advice before
launching your very first comic book
again, what would that piece of advice be?
I might have, you know,
pushed harder to have somebody else do the
art from the beginning.
You know,
I think my art looked for the first
five issues looks pretty good.
It was good, actually.
And but you can also tell where your
art started or stopped.
And we're hard strokes picked up as well.
Yeah, I think having a you know,
a more traditional comic book artists,
you know,
it from the very beginning would help push
the book to a higher initial level.
because I think that hurt it to some
degree.
It's still really good.
Honestly,
the story is what sells it anyway on
that one, the first five issues,
because it really lets you dig into what
Shark Award actually is and the
significance of what he is.
Right.
But I personally enjoyed it.
might have been one thing you know and
then i'm not sure what else um i
had some better advice about you know
where to where to do marketing and stuff
like that maybe yeah but uh you know
there's that would be about it that works
right there's still solid advice what's
something you've learned though as a
creator that you wish more readers
understood about making comics um
more readers understood.
I think, you know,
I don't want to say that they understand
how hard it is,
because that sounds like bitching.
And I, you know, I don't, you know,
when I hear a model or an actor
complain about how hard their job is,
I'm like, yeah, too bad.
i i think that i'd like that you
know people to understand that this is for
most of us this is this is not
about making money it's you know it's
something we want it's the love of the
game it's a passion project yeah um
nobody's getting rich off this um you know
it's it's you know that that i think
is what what people you know i'd like
people to understand you know we're not
when i send
you know, I,
I feel bad sometimes when I send,
you know, multiple emails saying, Hey,
back, back, back, please back now,
you know, and, you know, and I,
I hate having to really don't like to
do that too much, but you know, yeah,
but at the same time, but you know,
you gotta get funded and I, you know,
I wanna, you know,
I want people to understand that I'm not
trying to spam them.
We're not, we're not, um, you know,
snake oil salesmen or, you know,
multi-level marketing here.
Um, so it's, it's,
it's not men in that, that,
that tone.
Yeah.
But then let's bring this home.
Why backstampson?
I think the reason to back it is
this is a really good superhero comic
book.
And it's, you know, it's, it's original,
it's more adult than I think,
and more involved than I think, you know,
a lot of other comics have been in
a while,
if you've ever liked anything from Alan
Moore, Mark Miller, you know,
people who write more adult books,
I think you'll really like this one.
because I think it takes you you know
it has real underlying stuff but it also
still has the superhero action and the
interesting you know the thing that makes
a comic book a comic book and not
a you know not a
a drama or a, you know, a,
you know, a, you know, something,
something, you know, not, not,
it still has that comic book quality to
essence to it.
And what I really enjoy about it.
I mean, don't get me wrong.
I love a good superhero action book.
I really appreciate the fact that you went
out and you pulled real world,
real life history into the comic book to
give it that really heavy, uh,
real world feel to it.
And that's my favorite part of the book.
And my favorite part of the story is
that you didn't just make up the,
some of the stuff in this book.
It it's real.
It happened.
You can Google it.
It,
and you're going to read all these
articles about how horrible the,
it was and that's one of my favorite
parts about it is you did the research
and then brought that real world history
into a really cool superhero story and
that's my two dollar pitch for this and
to give my two cents to it is
i love that fact and that's my favorite
thing about it but ben let people know
where they can follow your work support
the campaign and can stay connected with
you at byton comics
Okay, so my website is bitingcomics.com.
If you go there, enter your email,
you'll get links to read like four free
comic books, both Samson one,
Vicious Vixens one,
Shark of War one and two.
And then I think I've also got a
couple other little freebies like the
Shark of War guide to how to avoid
a shark attack.
And you got the folded shark in there
as well.
Oh, yeah, the paper toy shark, too.
Yeah, which is really cool to make,
by the way.
Oh, you made it?
Oh, yeah.
I actually had my wife make it for
me.
Well, I have my daughter now.
I'm not good at crafts,
so she made it for me.
It was really a cool little chalk shark.
Unfortunately, I think it got destroyed.
Mine did, too.
I got cats,
so they took care of it.
but yeah so yeah so you'll get some
some bonuses um the Kickstarter is that uh
you know I'm it's got a long link
here so yeah it's down in the description
Ben okay yeah so so anybody who uh
who uh you know hopefully
go down to your description,
click on the link,
go to the Kickstarter page.
There's still twenty days left.
We're more than we're well over halfway
funded.
So I think with, you know,
with your viewers support,
we'll we'll easily make it funded.
We'll get you there, Ben.
Oh, thank you.
And one thing I noticed and I think
this might I don't know if it was
on Vicious Vincents or if it was on
Samson number two,
where I think you've got it either like
the day prior to the closeout or the
day of the closeout.
It was one of the two.
I have closed on the last hour of
the last day.
It might have been the last hour of
the last day.
That is something that happens.
That was one of those where I was
on the edge of my seat that day
because I kept checking on it.
I was like, come on.
Usually funds early.
I bet it was Samson issue too that
I was probably on the edge of my
seat for because I'm like, come on.
It might have been the last issue of
Shark of War.
Shark of War has been a little less,
you know,
it's had a little less traction lately.
Maybe it's just run too many issues for
people.
Yeah.
I mean,
nine issues is a lot for Indie Comet,
but I've seen Indie Comets go longer.
Oh, yeah.
So it's, I think, you know, it's,
the back of town is not as high
as it was,
even though I think the story is more
action-packed.
Yeah.
Those last three issues of Shark of War
are freaking phenomenal, action-packed,
a ton of fun,
and I'm ready for issue ten personally.
I think issue ten is going to be
the coolest of them all.
Yeah.
But Ben, once again,
thank you for joining us here at the
USDN Podcast.
All the links he mentioned,
including all his social media and his
website,
are linked down into the description below
this video.
It's always great to catch up with
creators who continue building worlds,
growing their audience,
and pushing forward in independent
comments.
We're excited to see how Samson...
Issue number three,
Samson versus the new right performs and
can't wait to see what comes next from
Biden comments, which, as we learned,
will be Shark of War issue number ten.
Council members,
if you've enjoyed tonight's discussion,
make sure you check out the Kickstarter
campaign.
Follow Ben across his social media and
support independent comments whenever
possible.
Until next time.
Ladies and gentlemen,
this has been the USDN Podcast where Indie
Comets come to life.
The council is adjourned.
Y'all be safe and happy weekend.