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The iGaming Leader Podcast with Leo Judkins uncovers the human side of the iGaming industry's most successful leaders. Join us as we explore the untold stories, challenges, and triumphs of the executives shaping one of the world's most dynamic sectors.
Each week, we dive deep into conversations with C-suite leaders, founders, and directors from global betting firms and innovative startups. Our guests share their authentic journey to the top, revealing pivotal career moments, leadership philosophies, and personal strategies for sustainable success in this high-pressure industry.
More than just another business podcast, we focus on the crucial intersection of wellbeing and high performance. Discover how industry leaders maintain peak performance while managing stress, work-life integration, and team dynamics in an industry that never sleeps.
Whether you're an aspiring leader, current executive, or passionate about the iGaming sector, each 30-minute episode delivers actionable insights to help you thrive in this fast-paced environment.
Subscribe now to join a community of high-achieving iGaming professionals committed to making this industry not just successful, but sustainable for its leaders.
Huw Thomas: [00:00:00] I saw an ad in the early two thousands in a local newspaper, in Surrey, for a casino and games manager. And I thought: wow, this sounds edgy. Yeah, you know, this will be fun. And I joined Gala Coral as a casino and games manager. And it was just a fantastic sort of learning ground and totally new to the industry.
In 2014, I got to work one morning, and the Chief exec at the time, and the chief HR officer pulled me in and said: You are in a lot of trouble.
But we're going to help you, because you need help. And you know that, human side of how I was looked after there. Something that I'll, never forget. The evening after that happened, I was in my first, alcoholics anonymous meeting, and that was the first day of my recovery, which was 11 years ago and not had a, a drug or a drink since.
When that moment of sort of surrender came and, and I was like, okay, this is it.
There is this level of peace and [00:01:00] serenity. That flows through your body because all of the shame and the lies and the worries and the fears, they're all out in the open now. Is where we all take a big, sigh of relief, right? And it's like, okay, now I'm at level zero, and I can rebuild and regrow here.
Leo Judkins: Welcome to the iGaming Leader Podcast, where we uncover the human side of some of the most inspirational leaders in our industry.
I'm your host, Leo Judkins and as an ex iGaming Director turned Performance Coach, I've worked with over 200 leaders from companies like Entain, bet365, Flutter and many more to help them build the habits to achieve sustainable high performance.
In these episodes, we share exactly what it takes for you to achieve the same.
So with that being said, let's dive in.
Leo Judkins: . Hey, and welcome to the iGaming Leader [00:02:00] Podcast. Today I'm joined by somebody who's been in the industry for 20 plus years. Been part of 1.1 billion pounds of successful exits. Huw was Chief Commercial Officer at Betson, chief Strategy Marketing Officer at MYX. During, their acquisition SVP and Chief Marketing and Strategy Officer at Open Bet and has recently founded a new business, around a topic that is really close to my heart and really important to us as an industry together actually with one of our Mastermind members, which we'll cover later on today as well.
But behind all of his success. A, is a very, very dark and troubled foundation that he's kept hidden for a very long time, which we'll talk about today as well. You, welcome to the podcast.
Huw Thomas: Pleasure to be here, Leo, and thanks for having me. Yeah, I'm super today. Thanks very much.
Leo Judkins: We've had the pleasure of, recently, talking and meeting each other and, yeah. Really inspired by your story, mate. I, I wanted to start off with, kind of the highs of your successes, and you've been in the industry for a [00:03:00]very, very long time. And I'd like people to understand the scale of, Yeah.
What you've achieved. You know, like I, like I said in the beginning, you've been. Been part of the part of major businesses, successful exits. And can you tell us a little bit more about your, your journey, you know, how you got into the industry and Yeah. Your, your progress throughout your career.
Huw Thomas: I saw an ad in the early two thousands in a, in a local newspaper, in Surrey where I was living at the time for a casino and games manager. And I thought, wow, you know, this sounds, this sounds edgy.
Y And, I'd been working on a, a couple of startups, failed startups with, a couple of friends. It was during that sort of, you know, early.com sort of, you know, boom. And, and we tried and failed a couple of little startups and I saw this, and I thought, yeah you know, this will be fun And for a, for a while.
And, and so that was about sort of. 2003, 2004. And, and I joined Gala Coral [00:04:00] as a casino and games manager. And it was, you know, it was a just a fantastic, sort of learning ground and totally new to the industry. Right. And, you know, I can remember sort of back in the day, I got to meet Evolution, right?
And 2004, when they were first getting going. I can remember these conversations around, you know, yeah, we're going to stream live casino, and it's going to be, you know, it's going to be the next big thing. And, and, and really it was a kind of vision and a pipe dream that they had, you know, remembering in 2004, we had like.
Download speeds of, two to four megabytes at home if we were key. Right? And, and, and here were these like a couple of Swedish guys who, who, who thought that video streaming was like, you know, the next best thing. And, and, and now that that's. Absolutely. What inspired me it was, was, was these, these sorts of people that were charting new territories.
And remember back then as well, we had like very little regulation, and you know, the, the, the entities were quite small, [00:05:00] so there was like zero sort of market consolidation, very new, you know, just what a, what a fantastic sort of fast. Paced, edgy industry to be a part of. And, and it, and it, and it had me hooked from day one, you know, so, so that's where I started.
And, and then moved to Betson in Malta. And, you know, Betson, when I joined in, in Malta was probably a couple of hundred people no more. And, um. And obviously today a giant organization and, and, all the rest of it.
And I, and I sort of worked my way up at Betson and became Chief Commercial Officer in sort of 2014 or 2012, 2013. And from there, when. To NYX gaming group, right? Which was a gaming platform, led by Matt Davey. And, there I was Chief Strategy and Marketing Officer. So we kind of built that business, out for a couple of years.
Matt and the team had been on it for, for many, many years and had [00:06:00]done a, a wonderful job by the time I got there. And then we sold that business to Scientific Games for 631 million, which was, you know, a big number. But it was right at that point where. Some of the bigger opera, bigger, operators, like scientific games, were looking at how to get into this world of, of iGaming.
And then became part of the big scientific games. Now Light and Wonder became part of that crew and, and, looked after strategy and marketing there for the iGaming business. And then we carved out Open Bet, right? Which is the sports betting platform that, that we'd acquired along the way.
We carved out Open Bet, and then we sold that to Endeavour, Endeavour's. The, the company that owns UFC and IMG and WME and all the rest of that. So then I became an, an Endeavour employee, and, had a fantastic, you know, ride there and, and, and I think all the, all the way along I was just. I, I felt like I was kind of [00:07:00] lucky to be in the right place at the right time with the right people around me.
Leo Judkins: we hear it in every story, right? Where massive success is, is, yeah, being in the right place at the right time. But it's not just that, right? Like, that always undersells, undersells ourselves, which is quite, quite typical for high achievers. Underselling your own. And your own performance, but I, I'd like to kind of go back through that journey a little bit. What were some of the were some of the things that you were most proud of in, that journey that you've had in, in your career progress?
Huw Thomas: The human stories are the ones that I remember most. And, and I'm a very sort of human person and, and, you know, not so strong on, you know, analytical financial stuff, but, but very strong on human, very strong on creativity.
You know, I think one of the high points, I was working in India for a while with, with bets on and, and, [00:08:00] and we were looking at that market, and I was based in, in Calcutta and me, I had a member of my team, a female member of my team who, who came to join and, massive imposter syndrome because on a, on a cultural level, deep cultural level, you know, she had been told.
Throughout her childhood, that the place for a female was at home, was not in the workplace. And so when she became part of our team, you know, this was imposter syndrome, you know, not, not just an anxiety or a fear or, or, or, or, or a worry. This was. Deep, deep-rooted, fear and, really sort of counterculture, you know, going against everything that, that she had been brought up to, to, you know, to know and to, and to learn.
And, and, in my conversations with her, this came to light. Right? And, and so, you know, I did a [00:09:00] load of work with her on a, you know, very sort of personal level, you know. Tears, very teary conversations. You know, her throwing the towel in occasionally saying, I don't know whether I can handle this. And, and she was amazing right at, at, at what she did.
You know, really hardworking, really thoughtful, really energetic, really bright. And so over the course of, of a couple of years, you know, we worked together. You know, very, very closely to, to share each other's vulnerabilities and, and, and, to try and sort of carve out this fear and create some sort of path that she could go down where she felt comfortable and valued and that she was, she was doing the right thing.
And, you know, to cut a long, long story short, she is now a C-Suite executive. Absolutely smashing it. And, and, it's funny because, [00:10:00] you know, when I talk to her, she feels indebted to me. But really, as is often the case, I'm sure you find it too. You know, when you are helping people and supporting people, the amount that you learn about yourself and, and.
And the, you know, the fears, the, the, the surface. As you are having these sorts of discussions within yourself, they become, extremely important lessons as we go along. And, a lot of that comes from helping others and, and, and, and that's the story, really.
Leo Judkins: , two big things that I pick up from that. The first one is that through all the successes of big businesses, exits, progress,
You know, executive roles. The thing that stands out for you the most is not the titles, and it's not the money, and it's not the things that the money were. You know, able to buy you. It was the human side of it, right? It's one specific individual [00:11:00] in one specific journey that, still, is important to you today. And I think, and the other thing that I, I really love about it is that we can. The things that we could do can really leave a mark on people.
Right. It can change their trajectory as well. And, This is true in, in anybody that we interact with, in any shape or form in, in our businesses. And let's dive into that a little bit more. Huw, when was the first time that you noticed that the human element to leadership was so important to you?
Huw Thomas: you know, my dad, is still alive and, and he's a he's a decorated military officer. And. He, at one point in his career, he was commander of what they call the rapid reaction force, right?
Which is a NATO, military unit that can be deployed anywhere in the world within 24 hours. And so, you know, high profile, high risk, all the, all the rest of that. And I can remember [00:12:00] asking my dad one day, you know, bearing in mind that I think this unit was. A thousand or more people of various different, military sort of units including, you know, special forces and, and all the rest of that.
So, and I remember asking him, I was like, you know, dad, you know what, what's the most important thing about your job right now? And, and I can remember specifically asking him this. And, and he said to me, well, I'll tell you what he didn't say to me. He didn't say to me. It's to win every battle. It's to, you know, plant a British flag.
It's to, you know, get home and get medals and, and all the rest of it. The answer he gave me when I asked him, you know, what the most important part of his job was? It was to look after the wellbeing of men and women under his command at all times. All right, so very military sort of, you know, look after the wellbeing.
But this kind of stuck with me and, and, and the way that he sort of describes [00:13:00] it was, you know, if you come back from winning a battle or, or whatever it is, and you've got, you know, 17 people in hospital, and you know, 50 suffering from PTSD, is that a victory? You know, is that a victory? For people watching this who, who are not, not familiar with, with, with the military, they pay just. Enormous amounts of, of, of attention to the wellness of their people. You know, whether that's the food that they serve them, the activities that they do, you know, the, the, the mental, you know, side of, of, of being in that world.
And that's really, you know, where I sort of picked up, and, and I saw firsthand, you know, the camaraderie and the humanness of, you know, these men and women who are going out to do probably the most dangerous work in the world. Coming back and, and, [00:14:00] and, and it wasn't the technicalities and the, you know, the finance side of it and all the rest of it.
That, that, that was the glue that, that held them together. It was the human connections that they had with each other. You know, the trust, the empathy, the honesty, the courage, you know, that, that they had collectively was what got them, you know. Out there and back safely. And, so yeah, so, so that's where it comes from, I think.
And, and, I try to reflect on that throughout my career and, it's been super helpful.
Leo Judkins: And Huw, you, you thought out that whole success and, and your fast progress. There is also an underlying dark side that kind of mentioned that in the beginning, you know, a really difficult period that you've gone through, something that you've battled along for a very long time. And then suddenly you got called into, into the office 2014, expecting nobody to be aware of your challenges. [00:15:00] to take me back to that moment and, and what actually
Huw Thomas: Yeah. So in 2012, I'd, I'd been at Betson for a while and, and sort of worked my way up to chief commercial officer. Big team, big responsibility. And to be honest, you know, what happened was, the pressure I could feel building. All right, so, you know, lots of direct reports. Lots of, you know, big targets, high pressure and, and all the rest of it.
And what started out as, as drinking to sort of decompress, you know, became drinking to numb. Alright. And, that's really where I would say my. My alcoholism and, and I'm happy to call it that today, is that that's exactly where it started with the using alcohol to, to, to numb the pain and to take the pressure away.
And what happens when I know now what happens when I, when I [00:16:00]numb pain or when people try to numb pain, you also numb joy at the same time because you can't selectively. You know, numb, one or the other. So, so, you become numb. And that means that you know, emotions of happiness and joy and connection and, and fall away along with, you know, momentarily feelings of anxiety and fear and pressure.
You know, they get numbed and, in the end, my drinking was, was so heavy that, that I was. You know, drinking to black out most nights. I would wake up the next morning.
You know, shaking, having to go to work, put on a brave face, try and freshen up. And, I started using Valium in the morning, to sort of calm myself down a little bit, but you can imagine what is happening now. So I'm sort of into blackout. [00:17:00] Out the other side into Valium trying to control my drinking during the day.
There was a huge urge for me to sort of have a drink to try and top up and, you know, it's, it's a classic sort of, addiction, feelings of addiction and, despite my best efforts to try and not drink during the day. You know, I would try and push out my drinking to the following evening when I was behind closed doors, you know, eventually that drinking sort of crept up.
So, you know, I would have to have a drink at lunchtime, you know, and then I was like, okay, I'm never going earlier than lunchtime. And three weeks later it was mid-morning, and then it was breakfast time. So, so at that point I'm feeling. I'm feeling like I'm, I'm really in a black hole. Unaware really that, that anyone else kind of knew about it, thought I was keeping, you know, fairly tight control on it.
And, you know, this industry as well is, is [00:18:00] say, sort of oblivious is the wrong word, but, you know, forgiving maybe. Right? Forgiving of, of, you know, work hard, play hard. And then in 2014, you know, I got to work one morning and the, and the. Chief exec at the time, and the chief HR officer pulled me in and said, you are in a lot of trouble.
And I thought, sh you know, shit, I'm about to get written, warning, fucking verbal, whatever it is. And they said, but we're going to help you, because you need help. And you know that, that human side of how I was looked after there. And something that, that, that I'll, I'll, I'll never forget. And, you know, the, the evening after that happened, I was in my first, alcoholics Anonymous meeting.
And that was the first day of, of, of my recovery, which was 11 years ago and not had a, a drug or a drink since. So I actually emailed [00:19:00] the chief exec and the chief HR officer at the time. I, I, I messaged them actually on LinkedIn, last week. And I said, you know, just kicked off this recovery in gaming, but I want you to know that.
You know, you were really the, the, the catalyst for everything that has happened, you know, since I got sober, and I wanted to thank you for that. So, um.
Leo Judkins: well done. Great. Great journey and, really? Amazing work. And, and again, it goes to show that an intervention like that, right, where just one single moment can make a huge difference in somebody's trajectory.
I wanna dive into some of, some of the things that you've said there. Huw for a, for a second. Because I can find myself in that story. How I was, I was, I think you were 35 right when you were promoted. I, I was 33 when I was promoted as the youngest director. I felt. A lot of pressure, and I was also drinking at night just to relieve [00:20:00] that pressure.
Feel like numbing my mind. Right. It felt completely brain fried every day. So, a lot of people do that, right? A lot of people have a, have a point after work or have a just need to decompress bet before coming home.
The real difficulty for people is to understand when it's an issue and when it's not, and when it's okay and when it's not. Okay. And, and, I think there's a real fear as well, almost to admit that it's a problem. Maybe you are, you are kind of wandering in your own head whether or not it's an issue.
But you also don't wanna be stigmatized, or you don't want to, you're fearful of the identity change that might create when you have to stop drinking or when you need to stop drinking. So I wanna, I wanna talk a little bit about the beginning part of that. The early, you know, just, just having a pint after work or just feeling completely stressed after work and, and having a few drinks like. Do you know when it's something that [00:21:00] you should probably talk about?
Huw Thomas: a very good question, isn't it? A and it's a very, very big question because I think also, you know, we're all on some sort of spectrum with our, with our thinking and, and, for me personally, you know, the, the moment of powerlessness was the moment when I realized I was no longer in control.
And, if I think back to that time, you know, those moments when I physically could not stop myself. Going to the fridge on my own first thing in the morning, you know, to have a drink. There is a line that I've crossed there and. You know, you could say, well, it's the time of day that you are drinking, which is the line that you've crossed.
But I would say that, that it's, you know, if you feel, and, and I, you know, I would be shaking at the time and, and literally being [00:22:00] drawn, feeling like I'm some sort of magnet towards the drink. And, and, and, and that intensity, you know, of, of, of that pull and that draw to the drink, you know, you can feel it sort of inside you.
And then the, the utter relief that comes as soon as the alcohol hits your bloodstream. And, um. if you feel this, this deep seat. Urge that that life will not be the same, or the afternoon or the evening would not be the same until I get a drink. Now that's something which I think should sparks spark off something in people's minds is, is
I think as soon as you had a thought, one thought around, am I drinking too much? The prob, the answer is probably yes. Right? Because otherwise,
You know what I mean? Otherwise, what, what, where, where does that come from?
Leo Judkins: does that mean that you, like, need to change everything or does that just mean have a chat with someone to see [00:23:00] if it's actually an issue? Check in with yourself.
In many people, the problem is that when they have a thought of, am I actually drinking too much? They feel that, well, I wouldn't classify myself as an alcoholic because an alcoholic is X, Y, Z and they, you know,
Whatever the is that they have on it, Also, I think people are very fearful to have that conversation because it might mean that maybe they're the person that is always the first one to go out.
Maybe that's how they're known by their friends or their family, maybe, maybe they don't even see how they can have fun any more if they wouldn't go out for a drink. So they're very fearful of, of giving up. The alcohol. And that might be the that conversation might be the first point of that.
So, what is the next step after that?
What does that look like, and what are your options? And, and yeah. What, paint, picture a little bit
Huw Thomas: everyone has got to kind of reach their own point, right? In, in, in, in recovery. And I see lots of people, who, struggle with their [00:24:00] drinking. But until it becomes a, a problem.
Of a certain size. Yeah. There is no point there. There is no point anyone else trying to sort of get them to stop drinking or to slow down their drinking or whatever. 'Cause you know, if, if someone is addicted to something, you know, outside pressure often actually adds fuel to the fire. But, you know, if I was struggling again and, and, and this is, this is what we, this is how, how I help.
People in the program right now are, you know, those first conversations really, really matter, don't they? And, and I think that, that if, if people are harbouring these anxieties around drinking, or drug taking, the first thing to do is to, is to chat to someone who you love and you trust. And, and, and to have that open, open conversation.
And I, and, and I think that's the. It's the first step to solving nearly all of life's problems is to, [00:25:00] you know,
In some respects, ad admit, surrender to the problem in some, some shape. Put your hand up and say, I'm not entirely sure where I am right now, but I know that it's causing me pain here, and it's causing me pain in my head.
I'm thinking about it way too much.
Leo Judkins: It's such a big step. Right? It's, people are so fearful of that. The, the other thing I, that you mentioned there earlier in your story, Huw, I think is also really important. It's this moving of boundaries, right?
I think it's something we're all guilty of. I'm not, you know, I'm not necessarily talking about alcohol, but in, in general, we all kind of go, yeah, well I've done this thing now, but oh gee, it won't happen again. We'll move our own boundaries, right? We're very, we might be harsh on ourselves in many cases, but we also say, but this is okay for now.
As long as I don't do. X, y, Z later. And I think in alcoholism, that is certainly something that's, that happens a lot because it, it, it's not something that happens overnight, right? It's something that progressively gets [00:26:00]worse, and you don't see it as an issue because you'll keep moving those boundaries.
Huw Thomas: there's always some sort of justification for it in my experience. Right. And it's like, you know, and, and, and, and this is, this is how. The disease of, of addiction, and I believe it is a disease by the way, is, is, you know, we, we say that it's sort of cunning and powerful and, and, and baffling.
Because it is, you know, it is a trick of the mind, you know, all of the time, which is, oh, I've had a, I've had an even more stressful day than I did yesterday. Oh, if everyone else was going through the swim sort of pressure that I was having, they would be drinking the same too.
Or, you know, I am, I drink less than so-and-so, you know, the mind can find all sorts of different ways to sort of justify, and it takes a, a level of sort of. Self-awareness that is normally with me when I was in, in the depths of my alcoholism. Zero self-awareness, [00:27:00] you know, and, and.
The mind is, is gone. But it takes a, a little moment, of clarity and, and only one moment of clarity to really sort of bridge that gap between being able to draw a halt to the addiction, or continuing for some time until something catastrophic happens. You lose your job, you lose your house, you lose your wife, you lose your, you know, whatever.
And, and it's unfortunately with addiction, it is. More often than not a catastrophic issue that actually prompts someone then to reach out and say, you know, okay, give up my, you know, I'm busted. I'm in a lot of trouble. I've had quite a few, friends of friends who've reached out, who've got children who've, who've had.
You know, addiction issues. And obviously they've been very, very upset. And they're talking to me about like, what can we do, and how can we help them, and how can we do this? And my advice is always the same is, is unfortunately there's very little that [00:28:00] you can do to sort of push someone into recovery.
It's just not going to happen. And unfortunately, sometimes the best thing is something catastrophic. You just wanna make sure, obviously, that it's not a, a life and death thing. But, people have gotta find their own rock bottom in, in some situations to prompt them to have what we call the, you know, the gift of desperation, right?
Leo Judkins: But don't you think that's almost everywhere Huw, if we take this beyond alcohol, talk about weight loss, about Dunno,
Because we're creatures of comfort because we are creatures of habits.
We have these behaviours, and although we don't like the behaviours we like, the easiest thing to do is to keep the habits. It's very difficult to break habits.
And so sometimes it takes, in most cases, I believe it takes catastrophic events, or it takes, real deep, know, deep, dark moments to. [00:29:00] To provide the fuel that we need and that gives the motivation to actually the behaviours that we have that we no longer, that no longer serve us.
Right.
Huw Thomas: I do think that's true in entirely. I mean, not, not, not only think that that's true. I, I actually know that to be true, you know, because I. I run recovery meetings. I see people at the various stages, of recovery. I see husbands who've been forced into recovery and all, and, and those that have come because they've, you know, surrendered and accepted and all, and, when that moment finally came for me and, and bearing in mind I've been drinking blackout for many months and Valium and, and all the rest of it, When that moment of sort of surrender came and, and I was like, okay, this is it.
There is this level of peace and serenity. That, that flows through your body because all of the, you know, the shame and the lies and the worries and the fears, they're all out in the open now. Right. And there's, and there's nowhere to go. And [00:30:00] so this level of peace found me very, very quickly. And, and, and I think that's true.
I mean, you, you will know because you work with, you know, lots of exceptional leaders and, and sort of transformation journeys that, that. That, that moment of acceptance and, and, and out into the open of, of, of problems, you know, is where we all take a big, you know, sigh of relief, right? And it's like, okay, now I'm at level zero, and I can rebuild and, and, and, and regrow here.
So I think if anyone is. Is worried about, you know, their drinking or, or worried that they might be addicted to, to drugs or alcohol. You know, the message is, is that there is a there is a window of peace and serenity, which is literally one step away. And, and, and it is there for, for, for, for everyone. And I know that to be true, not for myself, but for lots and lots and lots of people that [00:31:00]I've helped over the years is, I didn't realize that, that this feeling.
Of, of, of no shame and acceptance. I didn't realize that was going to be available, available to me. And it was like, you know, it's right there. It's, it's just literally one step away.
Leo Judkins: Yeah, it's just your mouth the way, right? It's just talking about it, actually.
That's I think that's the biggest challenge for most, most of us is that we all keep it inside the lies, we tell ourselves, the stories we tell ourselves, the justification, the moving of boundaries like we spoke about. You know, the industry's so full of pressure. It's so fast-paced. There's a real drinking culture in the drinking and drug culture, actually. I mean, go to any conference, and you see it at left, right, and centre. How would you advise people to deal with that pressure? That is perhaps in a healthier way than just drinking it away. Or numbing Your, numbing your brains.
Huw Thomas: one of the [00:32:00] tools that I have found most helpful in, in recovery, and it's a tool that, that anyone who's been in recovery will, will know about.
It's called a sort of personal inventory. Alright, so it's, it's very short exercise every day, takes three minutes maximum. If it's taking any longer than three minutes, then it's probably too deep, but it's to think about, how your day has been, what has troubled you. You know, and, and this is a writing, very short writing exercise.
You know, what is troubling you, you know where you've done well, where you haven't done so well. And importantly, like if there are any sorts of, you know, apologies or any amends that you need to make or, or whatever it is now. And, and, and it takes a couple of minutes. All right. And, and it's, I have a, a book here which is full of my daily inventories and, you know, bad behaviours, good behaviours, people I need to say sorry to and all the rest of it.
But, but the whole process of that is to pick out patterns, right? And I think, you know, we talk about, you know, the pressures of, of, [00:33:00] of everyday life in the gambling industry and, and events. And, and all the rest of it. I just wish that I had had little tools like this along the way to help me stop, you know, behaviours, and, actions that were not serving me, you know, and that level of, you know, introspection.
And, and by the way, some of my daily reflect, some of my daily introspection are just like scrappy notes, you know, so it's not very detailed, but, but just a little bit of daily reflection over a course of, you know, a month or two. Really helps to kind of you to see the, the black and white of your life, you know, in a, in a way that it doesn't happen if you think about it.
Leo Judkins: . When your brain is fried at the end of the day, right, and you're numbing it because that's the only way out. I think there are three things happening.
One is, we think we're, we are at the mercy of that. We think that it's just a consequence of the day. You know, our
Completely fried, and I think there are many things. I think the first step is you've gotta take more control, and you've [00:34:00] gotta look at, okay, how can I actually make sure that I don't feel completely brain fried at the end of the day?
Right? Then the second bit is the numbing. That's okay. So if my brain fried, I think for most people it's just that they don't have a tool belt of tools to help with relieving that pressure. And I think the third thing is also about giving it words. You know, the feelings that you go through, the stresses that you have. Being able to actually describe that and being able to, and I think, I imagine writing is a, is a big piece of that, right? And, and I think very often
We almost feel like we're on a train and yeah, it's inevitable. Of course, I'm drinking because I'm, I'm brain fried. Of course, I'm brain fried because it's been a stressful day and, and it's like we're a passenger.
And think all of this, all of the stuff that we are talking about here, is actually taking control and ownership and responsibility.
Huw Thomas: you know, I really like that Leah, and, and I, you know, I think there is, there is, the accountability [00:35:00] piece I totally align with. I think on the control piece, you know, it's really interesting. Control as a, as a, as a topic is really interesting. Like what we can control and what we can't control, and.
And, and, and I, and I think in my own life there are only, and, and in my business life at all, there, there are only a very small amount of things that I can control. Can't control people think of me, can't control, you know, whether I get, you know, you know, this or that and, and, and, and all the rest of it.
And I think that that's partly where my, my issues in, in the pressure side of things came from was because thinking that I had to control everything.
Gotta control, you know, the numbers, I've gotta control my team, I've gotta control the strategy. I've gotta control the, you know, have been having to control everything when, when in actual fact there were probably, you know, four or five things per day maximum that I can do to, to, to affect change.
And, and, you know, the biggest drivers of change and knowing what those are means that you don't have to worry about [00:36:00] the 4,000 other things which are rattling around in my head where I think I've got control of them.
Leo Judkins: love that you, because that's true, right? Isn't it? It's, there are so many things that are outside our of control, and because we are always focused on the short term results, the short term pressures we like, you can't. The fact that, you know, profits are down yesterday because of some bad results, you know, it's like not going to do anything about it today, really, are you?
Okay. I wanna talk a little bit about, connection, mentorship tell me a little bit more about what you do today and how we spoke about this before, right? How your mess has become your message, what does recovery and gaming look like? Why did you start it and, what does the future look like for you? What, what are some of the things that you want to be doing with this?
Huw Thomas: you know the story of recovery, you know about me now. So, and I think over the years I've, I've helped quite a few people in the gambling industry sort of get onto a path of recovery, which has been amazing. And, you know, something which is really. [00:37:00] meaningful, right?
So aside from business and all the rest of it, this is a, a real meaningful part of my life. And I was sat here, in this office, at home a couple of weeks ago, really. And, I stumbled across an article which was all about, doctors in recovery and, how these doctors all around the world, because they're all in the same industry.
They were getting together and sharing their experiences of. In recovery, but also being doctors. And I suddenly thought, you know. Yeah, there is nothing out there for the gambling industry. And why is that? And, and also that I'd never heard anyone really mention recovery. I, I'd and I, I looked through sort of agendas from previous events and speaker, speaker agendas, and I could see nothing.
I could see lots of responsible gambling, of course, which, you know, the industry does a wonderful job on now. But, nothing that really talked about recovery. So I thought about it for a couple of days. I wrote down some notes. I wrote a little bit of a plan, and [00:38:00] and then I started reaching out to a couple of other people that I know are in recovery.
And I said, you know, should we do this? And I tested it with. Three or four different people, and they were like, God, this is just, you know, this is and it's really needed. Secondly, there's nothing, there's nothing like it. And so yeah, so we put together a little plan and, got some people on board. And, and really the purpose is to, is, is, is sort of twofold really.
One is to lift the topic of, of, of addiction in the industry, from, from alcohol and, and drugs. And then the second one is to provide, you know, a. A safe space, if you like, an anonymous but safe space for people like we've just spoken about, who might be on the edge, who might have gone over the edge.
At least they know now, through this podcast. And, and through some of the stuff that we're doing that there are people there who they can get in contact with and, and, and reach out. And, you know, this really is [00:39:00] a life and death scenario. And I have had the. Unfortunate experience of, you know, having to attend funerals and having to watch families at funerals who are, you know, bearing or cremating loved ones.
And I tell you, it is a horror, that no one should have to go through. So the aim of, of this group really is to help a few souls along the way. And so that's what we're doing.
Leo Judkins: Really love it. You, and it's so important. I mean, I had Mark Smid on the podcast who I know you spoke to Lee as well, and, he, he spoke about, his own suicidal thoughts as a result of, his
And, Lee similarly spoke about how he's, you know, his battles with alcohol and who you're doing this together with whom, you're seeing very many friends as well going, going through similar, similar, challenging journeys. It's, it's all about just being able to talk with others, right? Just being able to, to no longer having to [00:40:00] keep this dark secret inside yourself. So if people feel that they're, may be, like you said, on the edge or maybe before the edge, or maybe over the no matter where they
Spectrum that you described before, what can they, what should I do?
What's, how do they get in touch with you and with the recovery in gaming?
Huw Thomas: Perfect. So I mean, I think number one is just go to the website, recovering gaming.com and, and there you will find all sorts of different stuff. But you will find our contact details. And I think Lee and I have both got our mobile numbers there. There's an anonymous WhatsApp chat that you can join, or you can message on LinkedIn or whatever it is.
And, I think, it's. Comes back to that first step, isn't it? It's reaching out and making some point of contact and, and in my experience, you know, alcoholics, working with alcoholics and addicts, working with addicts, that's exactly how we all get well, and, and, that's the best thing to do.
Leo Judkins: Thank you very much for your time today. You great, great mission.
Huw Thomas: thanks, Leo.
Leo Judkins: Thank you for joining me on The iGaming Leader Podcast. If you [00:41:00]enjoyed today's episode, head over to iGamingLeader.com for more conversations and insights. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast.
I'm your host, Leo Judkins, and I hope to see you next week.