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The Harvester Podcast is brought to you by the Florida School of Preaching. Listen weekly to take a dive into biblical topics and thoughtful studies on things that matter to our eternal souls.
life a number on calvary on mount calvary cruel calvary away by blood that we
with a bright shine.
Welcome to the Florida School of Preaching podcast, Harvester podcast.
I'm Brian Kenyon, your host, along with my other host.
Forest Antemesaris.
and Stephen Ford.
and in this season one episode nine we're talking about unity and says season one and
episode nine we're taking example of unity here promotion of unity in we'll look at
abraham's traits of unity in his dealings with a lot and uh...
we appreciate your joining us and there's a lot of things we can learn from these bible
examples even applying to our own age uh...
concerning unity and how we can have
unity among us even in areas where we might disagree not to compromise doctrine but in
other areas and matters that we come across
This account with Abraham and Lot is one that's always been of great interest to me for
various reasons.
Of course, Abraham is one of the great Bible figures for various reasons.
His faithfulness to God, he's called the friend of God.
But in as much as he is faithful to God, a friend of God, he trusts God, he also
demonstrates...
just a great love for maintaining, cultivating unity.
And I think this account with Lot is probably one of the greatest examples that you can
find in the Old or New Testament of individuals putting forth an effort to make sure unity
abounds.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And I think we see that, you know, Abram and Lot, obviously Lot was his nephew, right?
And Abram didn't have a whole lot of, you know, his dad passed away, obviously, he didn't
have a son at this point.
So you can see him trying to preserve that relationship.
And I always think about Lot leaving with Abram on this journey, like that just signifies
how close they are, you know.
like my uncle was like alright I'm going and I'm I don't know where I'm going but I'm
going and I'm leaving everything behind I feel like have fun you know send me a postcard
you know but Lot obviously goes with him so you see Abrams desire to keep that going and
we're what Genesis 13 here
Yeah, Genesis 13.
So I guess we'll just look at some of these traits of unity.
I guess, I don't know if it'd be necessary to read this.
Maybe just for some context, maybe we'll just read these verses.
In King James, it reads, and Abram went up out of Egypt, he and his wife and all that he
had and lot with him into the south.
And Abram was very rich in cattle and silver and in gold.
And he went on his journeys from the south even to Bethel, unto the place where his tent
had been at the beginning, between Bethel and Haia, unto the place of the altar which he
had made there at the first.
And there Abram called in the name of the Lord.
And Lot also, which went with Abram, had flocks and herds and tents, and the land was not
able to bear them that they might dwell together, for their substance was great, so that
they could not dwell together.
And there was strife between the herdsmen of Abram's cattle and the herdsmen of Lot's
cattle, and the Canaanite and the Parasite dwelled in the land.
So in this first kind of backdrop, I guess, you find that they're both wealthy in that.
But then you get, I guess, this hint that there is something that could damage their unity
and kind of put the...
put the brakes on them in their relationship, guess you might say.
Yeah, and I would make the observation as you were reading that, I was thinking about the
blessings that each of them had with the cattle.
And Abraham was very wealthy, the herds and the cattle and the gold and silver and Lot had
cattle and such.
And a lot of times when, you know, it's the mishandling of blessings that often creates
the disunity.
that we often find ourselves in.
But just the fact that we have all these blessings that there's unity to begin with, and
then things can threaten that.
Something we often take for granted is the blessings that we have from God.
But those blessings can sometimes be the object or maybe the challenge of maintaining
unity.
Yes, a great point.
I would, know, that word strife there in verse seven, least in the New King James, I think
is key to all this where it's one thing to have unity with somebody when there's no
conflict, you know, and that's very easy to do.
But when unity is tested, that's when you really find out, you know, how committed to the
unity are you?
It's kind of like a marriage, you know, that honeymoon period, it's called a honeymoon for
a reason, you know, that's different from.
10 years and three kids and there's a debate over whatever you know I mean like once you
actually okay we're actually coming up on a test of our unity how we can handle this
that's where I think you really see who really desires unity and what are they willing to
do to get it etc.
and I think that's part of what you were saying Stephen that makes it such a great example
it's not just well me my nephew of course we're close no there's an actual conflict here
that needs to be resolved in the way that that's going to be resolved is going to show
Abrams dedication.
Yeah, one of the things that also jumped out to me is usually when we think of things that
kind of put stress on relationships, it's the lack of resources.
Where there's three of us here, only two pieces of bread, now there's gonna be an issue.
Poverty is a stressor on unity, but so is plenty.
And so they had an overwhelming amount of stuff, and that was a stressor.
I guess you could say it's poverty in the sense that they ran out of land.
I guess it did sustain them, but the fact that they both had a lot.
still was able to be kind of a cause to strain their relationship, guess, or the
relationship of their herdsmen, which could have put them in a situation, which I guess
adds another layer to it because it wasn't directly them, but they could have allowed
others to impact their relationship.
Well, you know, I'm gonna take my herdsman word for it.
I'm gonna take your herdsman's word for it or that sort of thing.
But I want to note that that next verso, so we got the kind of backdrop, but then Abram
said to Locke,
Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy
herdmen, for we be brethren." So it's like the first thing that comes out is Abram
demonstrates a desire to make sure the relationship stays intact.
Yeah, please like he's asking or almost like begging please let there be no strife, know,
so Because it's unnecessary strife back to our point.
Sometimes strife comes about, know, we know From first Corinthians 11, you know for a
reason but here it's hey, how do we get rid of this?
Division where there used to be unity.
He's got the desire to solve the problem
yes sometimes that's that that's the challenges easier sometimes just to say well let's
just be divided right but it takes a lot of work to have a desire to wanna work it
together and you know that old expression where there's a will there's a way there's a
desire to stay unified then we're gonna find a way to do it and of course will add without
compromising God's word
Right, of course.
And you know, it requires maturity too, because there's like, I don't if you guys had that
kid in your neighborhood that when things weren't going his way, he'd just get his ball
and go home, you know?
And it's like, hey, if we're either going to do this a way that's best for me, we're not
going to do it at all.
And that's kind of like a very immature, childish way to approach things.
And Abram's more worried about the solution.
than he is about him getting whatever he wants, which leads us to some of our future
points, but the desire's there.
The one another thing that kind of jumps out is you see his desire to pursue unity and not
to pursue Greater strife because he did not address the herdmen.
Mm-hmm.
The herdmen were the ones arguing
And so they're kind of like the subordinates in it.
And he's like, well, look, I want actual unity.
I want actual resolution.
I'm desiring the better thing.
I'm going straight to And so he could have gone to the herd and said, man, who are you
talking to?
God spoke to me.
He called me.
He didn't call Lot or whatever.
He could have said any number of things, but he went straight to the source.
to make sure that there was no mix up in communication.
He didn't say, hey, I'm gonna tell my herdsman to tell his herdsman something.
They can tell a lot.
It was like, I'm going right to the guy.
So his desire was so great, at least it seems that he pursued the shortest possible avenue
to make sure that unity could have bound.
Yeah, his desire really was a solution.
know, that'd be like give me my wife we're having problems and I was talking to my kid
about it Hey, tell your mom that you know, it'd be like wait a second Why don't you talk
to my mom if you really want things to get better?
You know because it now if I'm going to a secondary Avenue things are just gonna get worse
at this point and I think we see that in congregations sometimes where people will Talk to
everybody about the elders when there's a problem when it's like hey you could go
right to the elders, you know them, they're your brothers in Christ, talk to them, right?
They're the ones who are tasked with this task.
So you see that the solution or the desire for solution, that's a great point, made him go
to lot rather than talking to the herdsmen, because he could have told them, he could have
bossed them around.
Yeah, and if it gets settled between the two of them, then needs to go no further.
Same also with lot of conflict and local congregations.
If just the two people would get together, it wouldn't have to go any further.
But as Forrest said, when they talk to other people instead of the person, then it just
makes matters worse, worse, and worse.
If only Jesus gave us a protocol somewhere in the Bible for what the...
I thought about that because when you said if we could go to the elders we should and in
many cases that is the solution but if you and I have strife Exactly we talk to each other
instead of me saying eldership that force did ABCD, you know, that way you don't you and I
It's never it may not get resolved because now you're like, well, why wouldn't you talk to
me?
So you may feel betrayed and all these other things
and was the desire really there in the first place or did I want to prove myself right?
Where Abram could have called the uncle card, he could have pulled the more wealthy card
or whatever, the one that received direct revelation from God card.
I mean, that's a pretty heavy card, but he didn't.
But his desire was there, but not only did he have the desire to...
you know, pursue unity.
But there's also a really, really big thing in that verse where he says to him, we be
brethren, which to me is it speaks volumes because he put himself on equal footing with
lot.
And so there's a air, this humility from him because he really could have pulled out a lot
of cards there to say, hey, look, you're coming along with me on this trip.
Jehovah God called me out, not you, but he did.
And he said, we, you and I, on equal footing are the same.
So let's pursue this great relationship.
Yeah, it's like we're too close our relationship is too close to have unnecessary Conflict
like if we can get to the bottom of this we need to and that's certainly true for brethren
in Christ
is too important, too valuable, too close.
And yeah, that's very true because we are brethren.
There's only one family and we're all equals in that family.
Jesus Christ is our brother.
Yeah.
I think it also, I won't say I think it also, it reminds me of what you read in like
Ephesians 4, like 31, 32 in there, where there's this appeal to the greater, you you
forgive each other because God forgave you through Christ.
And so I just thought about that because I'm thinking with Abraham, he's like, well, we
have this relationship.
Well, obviously they aren't related just because they chose to be.
They have a parentage.
that draws them together.
So he's calling on their parentage that brought us together.
And so as believers, we're like, hey, we're looking at our Father in heaven who forgave us
through Jesus Christ, so we should appeal to the higher to make sure our unity stays
intact.
It's not just you're great guy and I'm a great guy.
It's like, no, there's somebody higher and something greater that should compel me to.
pursue this unity.
therein, again, is like the humility, because it's not about me anymore.
What unites us is bigger and stronger than what divides us.
And we need to focus on that.
And that does take some humility, because you're more worried about keeping the
relationship than getting what you want.
And that's what we see Abraham doing.
He's more worried about keeping the relationship than just him getting what he wants.
Oh absolutely, I've always kind of enjoyed like army movies for that reason.
You you see the guy that'll jump on the grenade or the person will go back for his buddy
and you know no man left behind because it's like you know all individuals are important
but the mission is the greater thing.
The brotherhood.
Yeah and it just kind of pulls you in together.
so that is just something I thought was kind of neat that Abraham would almost lower
himself so that he and Lot could
He could see himself as equal.
So imagine what that must have said to Lot though.
Man, here's my uncle who's wealthy, who was called by God, going to this place, trusting
the Lord, later would be called the friend of God, you know, and he looks to me and says,
I'm his equal.
So that probably brought Lot up and maybe made a desire well up in him to want to do that
thing as well.
And the approach is important because that might have settled any doubts Lot may have had
about Abraham's intentions at this point, right?
If he came in, like you said, ablaze and, hey, I'm the man, who are you?
Why are you taking my stuff?
You know, whatever.
It would have been a very different situation, but he had that humility.
It was, it's a great reminder as we go through our Bible in the New Testament, we study
some of the traits that a Christian should possess when we're reading in Philippians 2 to
have a mind of humility like Christ had.
And it's like, he's not just saying, hey, Christ told you to be humble.
I was like, no, you follow this great example of humility and so if Christ could do it,
then I could do it.
And perhaps a lot thinking is, if Abraham could do it, then I could do it.
You know, that pursuit of the more humble, greater goal, I guess.
Yeah.
and look what Jesus was able to accomplish with his humility.
And then just think about what we can accomplish with humility, with that attitude.
Jesus became obedient even unto the death of the cross, and Abraham is going to work it
out with Lot here to make sure unity is preserved because of humility.
And that kind of, when you mention Christ, that kind of brings us a good segue into the
next thought about how he prioritized unity because if you just follow the narrative, what
are the herban arguing about?
They want the cattle to be able to be fed so they can continue to prosper in that.
But then he says to,
Lot in verses nine and following says, look, isn't the whole land before you?
Separate yourself, I pray thee, from me.
If you go to the left hand, I'll go to the right.
If you go to the right, I'll go to the left.
And Lot lifted up his eyes and he beheld all the plain of Jordan that was well watered
everywhere before the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the Lord,
like the land of Egypt, as outcome is unto Zor.
And so he prioritized the relationship over the health of his cattle, perhaps.
over whatever his herdmen were thinking, he seemed to really put unity in its proper
place.
Yeah, for sure.
mean, in that description, I mean, we're talking about this land is like the Garden of
Eden and Abram's going to give Lot first pick.
You know, I mean, that says right there.
Yeah, that says everything about where Abram's priorities are and I think to a trust in
God, you know, I think Abram says God will take care of me.
You can pick the best land.
know God will take care of me wherever I'm at.
So you got the first pick.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
Of course, this later on in Genesis 22 where he says, you know, the Lord will provide
after the situation with offering Isaac upon an altar.
But it looks like he had that same attitude here.
You know, go ahead and take whatever you want.
I'm not going to worry about it.
The Lord will provide.
My cattle will be fine.
Cattle will be fine.
Yeah, God gave me this cattle and if he wants me to keep my wheel.
Oh, absolutely.
I'm reminded that, you know, perhaps Abram, and course these words had not yet been
penned, but perhaps he had the idea of the beauty of unity.
I'm thinking of Psalm 133, where David says, behold, how good and how pleasant it is for
brethren to dwell together in unity, and then to describe how beautiful it is.
He says, it is like the precious ointment upon the hair that ran down upon the beard, even
Aaron's beard that went down to the skirts of his garment, the dew of Herman.
And as a dude that descended upon the mountains of Zion, the Lord commanded the blessing,
for there the Lord commanded the blessing, even life forevermore.
And it's just, you see, the psalmist as does Abraham, perhaps looking behind the curtain,
seeing the true beauty.
know, yeah, I can have green grass, and I can have this or that and the other, but what's
the real treasure here?
I found the real value, I guess.
That's what it takes, not just humility and desire, but also looking toward the long-term
goal.
What am I really seeking?
What's actually beautiful?
And I might desire unity, but it might not be a priority, right?
It could be down on the list where that'd be nice to have, but I'm not going to make any
sacrifices to get it.
And Abram doesn't say that.
He says, no, I desire it.
And it's a priority of mine.
You get to pick the land.
know, God, there's enough grass in the world to feed all of our cattle, but only got one
nephew.
So he definitely prioritizes that relationship.
Yeah, the desire, I like how you kind of parse that, because the desire is there, because
he could have just said, hey, hush up with the arguing, this is my nephew, we're family.
Now here's how it's going to go.
I'm going over here to the good land, you go over there and.
And you can say every right to do that.
Exactly.
Kind of our past episode, just because it's lawful doesn't mean it's expedient.
Exactly.
Exactly, and I wonder, I always think about Lot, just how this impacted him.
You there's not a lot that reveals what his kind of after situation was, at least mentally
reflecting on that, but I just always think about what would Lot have walked away thinking
about his uncle after this kind of a situation.
sure you had respect for him.
Yeah, to say the least.
Yeah.
Great respect and that sort of thing.
The other thing is that Abram not only was desirous of it and he not only wanted to
demonstrate humility and he prioritized it, but then you might say, Abram, is that gonna
be long lasting?
You know, is this kind of one of those deals where it's like, okay, you know, right now in
the here and now, I'm gonna do it.
But then,
you know, after this, you know, no more, you know, that sort of a thing.
But in the next section of scripture, you see this world war break out and then Lottis
swept up in it.
And now he and his family are captured.
Go ahead.
And while I'm just gonna say Abram, you know, when Abram goes to rescue Lot, I'm pretty
sure it's Abram, and obviously he's got an army with him, right?
But he's got his men, so he's putting his life and the life of his men on the line to
rescue not just Lot, but all of Lot's property, essentially.
And I think that that's interesting that Abram was willing to risk essentially what he
had.
that so that he could rescue him or save him.
And that word, I don't I'm not familiar with Hebrew, but it's interesting, the New King
James in Genesis 14, 14, it says, when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive.
So it wasn't just some guy, wasn't just, I thought I was done with Lot.
It's like, no, we still have that bond.
We still have that familial relationship.
And Lot being captured, Lot's stuff being captured, I have a responsibility to go and
help.
There's also
Now that you just mentioned that there's a word that's not mentioned in the text, but I
think is just interwoven through the text, and I think it's love.
So, you know, we think about what is gonna be the thing that brings unity together.
I just thought about this as you were talking about that one of the demonstrations or the
traits has to be love.
Love for God, love for your brothers, love for souls, love for unity, love for the church,
you know.
All of those things and lot demonstrates that when you that just made me kind of think of
that when you said that yeah He was he definitely loved his his Nephew his brother his
family, know more than he loved the possessions.
I just want to look at that text here in First excuse me Genesis 14
verse 14 and when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive he armed his trained
servants born in his house
318 and pursued them unto Dan, and divided himself against them, he and his servants by
night, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobo, which is on the left hand of Damascus,
and brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot and his goods, and
the women also, and the people." And so he put it all on the line.
Makes me think about...
First John 3, 16, we ought to be willing to lay down our lives for the brethren if we
truly love one another as God loved us.
And not just pursue unity, but to prolong unity.
To make sure it continues to last, make sure it continues to flourish in all situations, I
guess you might say.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because it'd be easy to say, you hey, we're united.
Okay, if we're united, help me with XYZ.
Well, I don't think we're that united.
You know, I mean, it's very easy to say, to try to keep the appearance of unity or the
veneer of unity.
But when it's actually time to act like a brother, I'm nowhere to be found.
And that's what...
That's the problem, obviously, and that's what we don't see Abram doing.
Abram's like, yeah, we're united.
Because sometimes you might just give somebody something to placate them to get, hey,
yeah, pick whatever land, whatever.
I don't care.
I don't care if I ever see you again.
But that wasn't just to get them out of there.
was, oh, and if anything comes up while you're over there, I'm there to help you.
Because not only this, remember, in Genesis 18, Abram mediates essentially for a lot.
Hey, what if there's 50 righteous people inside?
What if there's 30?
What if there's 20?
What if there's 10?
I'm sure he was thinking about his nephew.
absolutely.
So he's throughout his whole time, post-strife and cleaning it up, he's still worried
about his well-being and wants to help him.
So then just kind of a closing question.
this one was that we didn't kind of think about this in advance.
I just kind of want to throw us on the spot here altogether.
So looking at Abraham, looking at some of these traits, know, humility, love, desire,
priorities, prioritization, the proof, what would we say are some ways that
this, like some application for this, okay, right now in 2025 in the church, what are some
ways that we can take Abraham's, or Abram's, me, Abram's life and these lessons and make
them real today?
well account was thinking like what james says you know faith without works is dead and so
unity without and kind of piggybacks off of what force was saying there that unity without
the action backing it up to promote it to keep it is is useless and so we have to put it
into action desired of course desire it and have the humility and love but it's like
unless unless we
make a sacrifice first john three sixteen to sacrifice to make it happen to keep it there
it can really be unity and people see it as unity
And you get it.
mean there's you could have closed-door unity But that's not really real unity.
You know what mean?
We might we're hanging out right now.
You're in my office We're best friends But then you get in some trouble or maybe somebody
talks bad about you behind your back or whatever and I'm the first person to say yeah
You're right.
Yeah, that's Steven guy.
Yeah, you know what mean where it's like unity and word only isn't really unity right?
Unity is more than that.
You know and it's kind of like that's in the denominational world.
You've got
Quote-unquote unity and they teach different things about everything, you know, but in
their minds they're united not really And for us sometimes we might say, you know, yeah,
I'm in fellowship with so-and-so I'm a fellowship with so-and-so but when it's actually
time to be in fellowship with so-and-so Mmm, know where to be found.
It's like well, I guess you're not you know I mean that's really what that comes down to
in my opinion is You you know, I don't want to
be crass, put up and shut up is something my dad always used to say, know what I mean?
Put up or shut up, where the proof is in the pudding.
And unity is certainly one of those things.
I was just also thinking about when you mentioned that the unity that we're seeking, the
unity that we're pursuing needs to be real, needs to be genuine, has to be put into
practice, and it has to be something that we are willing to do at whatever cost.
But going back to our last episode, if we look at the traits,
of unity as seen in this context with Abram.
They all spring forth from the nature and the word of God.
And so what is he demonstrating but humility, desire for unity?
God desired unity with man and we know he did with that because he sent Jesus Christ.
Ephesians chapter two makes that abundantly clear.
So when we find humility, Jesus was humble.
We see all these traits.
we find them exemplified and taught in the word of God.
And so if we're gonna have unity kind of going back to how this all ties together, it has
to be hinged on the revelation from God.
can't be Abram is just saying, well, you know, I'm gonna make sure that there's no stripe
between us because ultimately I want to absorb all of his sheep.
you know, I want this.
Yeah, it wasn't ulterior motive.
It wasn't selfish.
It was just like, hey,
this is the right thing to do.
And though it's not explicitly stated, it's implied that Abraham wanted to do the right
thing and so he pursued the unity.
And so I guess just like a closing thought, I would just think that no matter what we're
doing pursuing unity, it has to be based on God's word for application today.
So I can't say, hey, we want unity with the ABC denomination down the road.
So let's just tell them everything's alright, let's bring in our organ, their pastor, and
we're all okay.
That's not unity.
So we have to make sure whatever we do, word and deed, that it's all by the authority of
God.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, and how we started, I think episode one we talked about that, Ephesians 4, 4 through
6, the basis of unity, Jesus' prayer for unity in John 7, 20 and 21, really through 26,
and then also the plea, or the plea in 1 Corinthians 1 verse 10, that it has to be on
God's Word, there's just no way around it.
However, as we apply God's Word to it, and that's where truth, tradition, all that stuff
comes in,
but you know we work it out and the way Abram worked it out with Lot, he desired it again
which implied maturity.
He was humble with it.
He loved Lot.
He loved the concept of unity according to God.
He prioritized it and he proved it by rescuing Lot.
And so we see all that throughout this incident between Abram and Lot.
And we thank you for joining us in this episode nine of season one of our podcast, and we
hope to have you join us again on the next episode when we discuss matters of Christian
unity.