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The Moonshots Podcast goes behind the scenes of the world's greatest superstars, thinkers and entrepreneurs to discover the secrets to their success. We deconstruct their success from mindset to daily habits so that we can apply it to our lives. Join us as we 'learn out loud' from Elon Musk, Brene Brown to emerging talents like David Goggins.
[Music]
hello and welcome to the moonshots
podcast it's episode 158 I'm your
co-host M Parsons and as always I'm
joined by the defender of food himself
Mr Mark Pearson Freeland good morning
Mark hey good morning Mike I know that
you're one to abstain from food early in
the morning but I've got to tell you and
our listeners I've already had some
breakfast so I'm sorry to say sorry to
tempt you but I did I did want to get
into the swing of today's topic by
starting off with a good old breakfast
and what is your breakfast of choice
Mark well I I tend to stick to some
mostly light breakfasts I've got to
admit something not too heavy to get
started so today it was a bit of toast
bit of egg
um some pretty honest stuff you know
there you go and right now our listeners
are thinking did I tune into the wrong
podcast is this a food and breakfast
podcast well it kind of is today isn't
it Mark yeah it kind of is today we're
digging into Michael pollen's in defense
of food and eers Manifesto and Mike just
to set the scene for you and our
listeners we're in show number three in
our health series after after we've
covered Patrick Mac's the oxygen
advantage in episode number one so that
was show number
156 as well as last week Matthew
Walker's why we sleep the new science of
sleep and dreams so bearing in mind
we've got a bit of information about
breathing bit about sleeping today you
and our listeners and me we're all
diving into
food and one of my favorite authors I
have to say Michael Poland uh the author
of indefensive food and many many many
other books uh around food and healthy
diet um real breakthrough for me I
cannot um I cannot encourage our
listeners more than to just jump in grab
this book uh enjoy this show for for as
a like a taster of what's to come from
Michael Poland um I I really found this
for anybody who just wants to eat well
feel well and be at their best this this
book not only gives you like the road
map it sets the context mark and it is a
huge wakeup call so as we get to the end
of 2021 and you might be a little bit
tempted over the Christmas break to
overindulge um sure enjoy a moment with
friends and some real traits but as we
turn into the new year of 2022 to if
there was ever a time that we wanted to
focus on health it's now and I think
this book in defense of food is on one
hand like a fantastic road map of how to
think about your own diet what you eat
what you put into your body but some of
us need a little bit of a wakeup call
and Mark Michael serves it up in this
book doesn't he yeah Michael's going to
not only help us re-evaluate what it is
that we're purchasing as well as we're
putting into our bodies but don't worry
listeners he does have some proactive
tips for us and it's not all doom and
gloom nobody has to put down the knife
and fork and start starving yourself
this is not a diet podcast we are not a
diet show we're all about how to
transform ourselves into the best
version of ourselves and I think if we
look across the health series Mike we've
understood a lot more about the effects
of breathing and how we can take control
of that as as well as maximize our
ability to you know be unconscious when
we go to sleep and have a good night's
rest today it's about food we all love
it so let's make sure we understand it
and start to take proactive choices when
we're evaluating what it is that we're
going to start consuming well Mark I'm
hungry for his thinking let's dive into
the World of indefensive Food by Michael
Poland where do you want to start I want
to start with a mantra that our list
listeners May well already be aware of
it's something in fact Mike that we've
referenced a couple of times on the
moonshot show in the past so I want to
give the author a chance Michael pollen
a chance to help Define what it is that
he's pretty well known for on the back
of in defense of food and all of his
series on food and this Mantra is eat
food mostly plants not too much so let's
hear from Michael breaking down this
Manifesto Michael you use a simple frame
work for delivering a lot of your advice
on how to approach one's relationship
with food and what comes to mind is your
kind of Mantra eat food not too much
mostly plant well you know coming up
with those seven words which I'm afraid
will be on my gravestone unless I don't
unless I come up with something better
soon um is uh is the result of a very
long process of examining the science of
nutrition but as I got deeper and deeper
and deeper I realized well actually the
key issue is are you eating real food or
what I like to call edible food like
substances which is to say processed
foods and so the phrase eat food I
realized that's really what you need to
know to eat well eat food by which I
mean real food but then I realize that
isn't quite enough because we're also
eating too many calories so not too much
became part of the Mantra and then
lastly I was like well within the range
of foods is there a class that's better
than than another class and one of the
things we know is that people who eat
lots of plant Foods tend to have much
better health and better longevity than
people who eat a heavy meat diet so
mostly plants not all plants mostly is
I'm I'm trying to be very reasonable and
and um although it tends to offend both
vegetarians and carnivores when you say
mostly plants so eat food not too much
mostly plants is basically I think all
you need to know now eat food is
probably the hardest part of that to
understand because isn't all that stuff
in the supermarket food well I would
argue it's not and I would argue a lot
of it are relatively new highly
processed edible food- like substances
that really are what gets most people
into trouble around eating they tend to
have lots of refined sugars lots of
refined fats and very little fiber very
little of the antioxidants you find in
plants and basically they they were
designed for long shelf life these
processed foods and um the way you make
a food last longer is you take out what
is nutritionally valuable I'm talking
about omega-3 fatty acids I'm talking
about fiber all these things don't store
well so we've gone down a path of of
eating a lot of things that shouldn't be
dignified with that beautiful word
food wow that that really is Right
Between the Eyes or perhaps it's a big
bit of a a belly blow um a gutshot um
eat food mostly plants not too much and
Mark I know we have mentioned this many
times on the the many years of this show
but I want to stress to our listeners
that what Michael Poland offers in his
book in defense of food is these three
aha moments which is realize listeners
that often what we think is food is so
full of preservatives that in order to
preserve the food you must remove the
food so he's basically saying make sure
you're eating stuff that is actually
food and what I love about this next
part of the Mantra is he says Mercy
plants so he's not like hey fellas
everyone's got to go vegan no he's like
mostly plants and like you know make
sure it's green make sure that you're
eating things that have fiber in them
and lastly and this is huge for Western
culture not too much like our portions
are crazy absolutely crazy so uh I have
a funny story to tell you so I had just
moved to the US after living in uh in uh
London and uh I ordered a a SM smoothie
and they I think the the the the person
at the cter said do you want do you want
like a regular or a large and I was like
really wanted to have like a healthy
smoothie it was the day I just arrived
in in
SF and they handed me what was I think a
oz uh smoothie that was so big I
actually couldn't hold it with one hand
I needed two hands to hold it and
because I'd been in Europe where the
portion sizes are smaller than the US I
was just so shocked at the size of this
smoothie and it's really a call to Arms
from Michael Poland to create a moment
just like I described like make sure
what you're eating is actually a food
make sure it's most of the time it's
kind of plant and lastly hold on to
those portion sizes and just calm down
with the uh those massive buckets of
bever
or like platters of food like take it
easy and eat food mostly plants not too
much is a manure that I can encourage
you Mark and all of our listeners hold
on to it because yet its beauty is in
its Simplicity and its power pretty good
stuff right yeah I and I think you're
right it it is actually pretty simple I
think that's really the thing that
stands out to me in microp poons in
defense of food they're very actionable
they're very ownable by us when we make
conscious decisions about what we're
purchasing and what we're eating and
they it's a mantra it's only seven words
it's a mantra that you can bear in mind
when you're considering what it is that
you're going to to serve or what you're
going to order and for me I I certainly
fall down on on one of those of the
three mantras which we discuss later um
but I but I quite like the the mostly
plants element again on what you were
just saying it's not Michael saying we
will have to turn vegan he's not
encouraging us necessarily to step
entirely away from from uh you know
meat-based so we're not here listeners
to uh campaign against those who are
eating meat instead what I think stands
out to me with the mostly plants element
it's because you can identify it as real
food you can see that a piece of kale or
cauliflower is inde need a bit of kale
or cauliflower whereas sometimes
especially when you're grabbing
something you know convenience food fast
food it's tough to really identify what
it is so I think this idea of eating the
real food as opposed to how Michael
describes a kind of edible uh fake
version of food it's a lot easier to do
with plants I think and I think that's
what really stand out to me when I'm
considering Michael's work uh in the
rest of the show as well as specifically
in that Mantra it's being able to
identify it Identify the food that
you're
eating I think
uh what Michael Poland is encouraging us
to do is to just remember this simple
mant and when he says eat food just like
when in doubt if it's in a package right
that's like a huge cue uh if it's not
just sitting there as a fresh uh head of
broccoli like if it's in a package
question right that's what he's saying
if it's full of
preservatives um be careful here because
if your grandma is got this great thing
like if your grandma wouldn't recognize
the ingredient that's a huge trigger
moment like do you really need to be
eating this so very interesting
foundational idea here first principle
eat food now the next thing on the not
too much the reason that he's saying
don't uh overindulge watch those portion
sizes is the reality is as you put on
weight your risk of heart disease and
diabetes increases simple scientific
truth but hey in the end of the day we
all forget um you know the the the
tension and the pressure we feel around
body image
I would just go to think how good you
feel when you feel lean for whatever
your size and shape is when you're not
heavy you know I've had these times in
life where I've really felt heavy and
Beyond the fact that you feel like I'm a
you know I felt like I was a bit of an
oath um and too heavy and and and the
you know whatever unsightliness comes
with that in my mind more it's more than
that I would say when I feel lean I feel
good I feel mobile flexible agile like I
feel like a greater sense of flow I
don't know how to describe it mate how
do you feel when you're like feeling
nice and lean and not like all Heavy um
do you ever have this kind of experience
yeah my excuse me the the experience
that I will portray because it's this
time of year Mike we've got Christmas
trees up we're all getting ready to
maybe purchase all the food and start
serving it I will fall into the camp of
eating a
lot and that's not because I am uh uh
necessarily trying to be polite I'm not
trying to eat the food that somebody's
serving me I'm just a bit greedy so the
way that my body as well as my mindset
changes when I do eat a lot I get very
sleepy very very
tired and that's okay totally but what I
do notice is when I have have had that
big meal suddenly I don't want to
interact with lots of other people I
want to maybe even go to the extreme and
go and have a lie
down and and I just feel very heavy and
lethargic you know it just slows me
right down and I can really when I eat
too much so to build on that what I've
done is removed breakfast from my diet
because I feel so lean and so um because
my body's not diverting all this energy
to my stomach to to process and digest I
can send that that blood that energy to
different places like my brain so that's
why I feel like I do my best work in the
morning that's why we record the show in
the morning because we're sharpen and
you know with it and the last part is
the mostly plants thing you know let me
just say this I love a good steak let
let's get this super clear I love meat
but particularly as I'm starting to get
a little bit of gray hair and getting in
my uh more senior years what I would
propose to you is I notice that when I
eat
vegetarian I'm putting less workload on
my body um so therefore I have more
energy and I feel good light clean
bouncy is a good way of describing it
and I will always each week I'll eat
meat don't worry about that but my point
is I've actually moderated my meat
intake just because I feel feel good
when I eat mostly plants as Michael
Poland would recommend and one of the
things I take great pride in is saying
to myself you know first meal of the day
it should be a green plant so I love
having spinach um you know at 11 or
12:00 um I love um just getting Fresh
Veggies into me and feeling good so eat
food not too much mostly plants I mean I
think we could almost do the whole show
on the Mantra I mean we could we could
throw all the clips away I mean there's
so much in it isn't there yeah yeah I I
think you're totally right we could
totally just revolve around those seven
key words because they are the real
fundamental of what Michael's really
calling out to us and giving us and our
listeners and his readers a chance to go
out and do and and I think again it just
comes down to the ownership being on us
we can totally control what it is that
we put into ourselves and just sticking
by those seven key wordss that little
Mantra is is a way to to not only
control your your weight but also more
importantly as you've just said that
level of efficiency Focus productivity
and the feeling that you're just in a
good place at the start of the day but
all the way through the rest of the day
as well yeah totally now I tell you who
likes being at their best Mark and
that's our members what do you reckon
yeah that's right it's time listeners
and members who are joining us for our
patreon roll call drum roll
please we are welcoming new listeners
and members as well Mike this week and I
want to give a special shout out to
Spaceman who has joined us and become
the patreon member thank you and welcome
Spaceman but also not to forget all of
our members who've been with us for many
many weeks I'm calling out Yasmine
Rodrigo and Connor majan and Yaniv
Helena Mark Byron Tom de Mar Ken Sandy
Nile briy Terry John Nels and Bob
welcome members we're so pleased to have
you with us every single week and every
single month and if uh if you think
about what special diet those members
are on by being members uh they get to
digest every month the
moonshots Master Series Mark and that is
a heavy duty membersonly podcast and if
you'd like to get your hands on to that
head over to moon shots. become a member
hit that big button know that by
becoming a member you help us pay all of
our hosting costs and when we get on the
other side of that we can actually build
a mobile application so you can on your
phone get all the the wisdom of
moonshots uh in the palm of your hand
but I tell you who's been busy typing
away on their iPhones and on their
computers there's some of our Members
Mark that deserve a special shout that's
right a special shout out to Mr Terry
Bean who once again is advocating on the
moonshot show over on LinkedIn thank you
Terry for always joining us in fact I
think we should give an extra extra call
out and a round of applause even Mike
for Terry because Terry's been a very
very busy man not only digesting and
listening and learning out loud with us
on the moonshot show but it sounds as
though he's also been giving himself
some pretty physical goals with doing
press ups every single day as well so
well done Terry yeah now you you have to
give a little bit more context him M
because Terry did a classic thing you
can do at Moon shots. he went into the
back catalog and he re listened to one
of our faves David gogins and he got a
little fired up right Mike I mean he's
been hitting push-ups every single day
and it nearly blew me away do why don't
you share with our listeners what's the
highest number of push-ups he's done
thanks to the moonshots podcast we've
just he's just leapt into action how
many push-ups did he do in one single
day it blows my mind but Terry as
somehow Mike Superman Terry maybe he's
Superman who's joined us he's managed
three
90 press UPS in a single
day I'm my my shoulders are hurting just
contemplating this thought it is
phenomenal so shout out to Terry and
also shout out to to Kushi who is based
um uh out there in uh the Exotic world
of India and she came up with this
really good uh idea which I kind of
agree with is that she says here I
prefer podcasts over YouTube videos
unless she's after technical uh really
technical content and she goes on to say
for me they are reliable sources of
staying updated escaping fomo and a
go-to choice while eating or traveling
long distances and then big big respect
to tushi she actually lists Us in the
company of the financial times uh the
economic Times and there she puts
learning Out Loud by moonshots podcast
is one of her favorite shows so cushi
respect
and love coming to you across the
Pacific Ocean to you right there in
India we really do appreciate the shout
out don't we M wow thank you kushy for
listening and thank you for listening Us
in such high esteemed podcasts as well I
do agree consuming uh podcasts while
you're out and about or or sitting down
and even eating I think today's show
particularly Kushi will rest in your uh
your catalog there as you're consuming
your next meal absolutely and I tell you
what now that we have kind of topped up
on all the the love and the sharing and
the conversations that our members are
doing I think it's appropriate to
consider the next part of Michael Poland
and inde defense of food but Mark I
think what we want to do is we want to
hit our listeners with a question and
when you hear this question we want you
not only to think about your answer but
to share it Go and share it on Twitter
so you know just look up mot's uh
podcast and you'll find us on Twitter on
YouTube on patreon wherever you want we
want to invite you to answer the
following question drum roll Mark what
is the question that we're asking every
single listener right now on this show
what is the one food and direct habit
you want to
change so it could be I mean there are
so many things maybe you want
to eat mostly food maybe it's mostly
plants maybe it's not too much in fact
we've got a whole bunch of
recommendations coming up that might get
you into the idea of a positive habit
that you might start something positive
in your life so what's the one food or
or you know diet habit that you want to
change let's think about this while we
jump into Michael pollen and the next
clip we have is some really powerful
thinking that he has on this idea of the
religion of nutrients the way we were
looking at food which is to say the
pseudoscientific way we all look at food
that was really making our lives
difficult and not helping our health and
I call this way of looking
nutritionism and I want to talk a little
bit about nutritionism which I think has
is is is a good name for the ideology
that organizes our thinking about food
now an
ideology is a is a kind of uh it's an
interesting thing um it's the set of
ideas and assumptions that organize your
experience of something your
understanding of something usually
without you being aware of it at all
okay it's kind of deep it's deep-seated
set of premises that you don't even um
you know consider question criticize
because they just seems so obvious so
let me let me walk you through the four
premises that I think Define
nutritionism and you can tell me if this
doesn't characterize the typical
American way of thinking about food
today and perhaps your own way of
looking about food today and then I'll
try to get you to expunge it from your
brains and replace it with something
that I think will be healthier and
happier okay the first premise of
nutritionism is that the important thing
about any
food is the nutrients it contains
that food is essentially the sum of its
nutrient parts so that when you're
thinking about eating a steak it's
really a matter of saturated fat and
protein and um if you walk through the
supermarket today you will be kind of
amazed to see you know yeah you can
still find cereal on the label or yogurt
but look at all the other biochemistry
that is bannered in the store uh you
know it the the vocabulary of food is
about cholesterol and fiber and
phytochemicals and
antioxidants um and we all have this
this n nutrient vocabulary knocking
around on our heads this is very
peculiar where else in your life your
everyday life not your professional life
do you have so many scientific terms in
your head so that's the first premise
that nutrients are what matter is food
is deliv food is basically Delivery
Systems for nutrients premise number two
if nutrients are what matters in food
and nutrients are invisible to all
except the uh the nutrition scientists
with his or her
microscope if you can't see a nutrient
if you can't taste a nutrient if you
can't smell a nutrient then you need
experts to tell you how to eat right as
soon as you enshrine the nutrient is the
important thing and since we don't we
don't have a a sensory experience of
nutrients suddenly you need experts you
need journalists you need Doctor doors
you need nutritionists you need uh
scientists uh to tell you how to eat
it's a little like a religion right if
you have a religion where the important
thing is invisible is a is an abstract
uh you know deity to whom we no longer
communicate directly we our relationship
to that deity must be mediated by a
priesthood and today we have a food
priesthood that basically tells us how
to eat so that's premise number two we
need experts in order to eat very
interesting Mike I think it's a
fascinating little breakdown from
Michael pollen in his book in defense of
food because it's something that I think
I've certainly been guilty of I
certainly take a look at the bodies that
um control or at least direct how I
interpret and what I purchase and what I
put into my body and I think this idea
around nutrients and uh science being
able to influence and control what it is
that I'm putting into my body it's a
little bit scary with how much I put
into those bodies well you know what
what Poland is beautifully doing here is
like don't fall victim to like oh is it
is it organic is it a superfood because
once you start going down these uh these
lines you're just in the hands of what's
The Fad today it's almost like the the
the diet movement it's this diet this
year that diet uh the next year what
Michael is saving us from is all of this
OB fication and distraction he's like
everybody eat food mostly plants not too
much so he is saving us from all these
technical scientific questions that can
just be a big trap and he's saying guys
just eat the real stuff yeah try and get
you know lots of good green stuff and
veggies in there and you know what take
it easy on the portions I mean MK that
just feels good saying versus like is it
high cholesterol is it high fiber is it
a superfood is it organic like he's just
getting us back to basics isn't he yeah
and this is what I really like about
what Michael's breaking down for us
because it is pretty overwhelming in my
experience particularly in a world where
we're very very connected and we can
Google or search or look up any new
terms that you might find on your food
whether it's probiotic or added calcium
whatever it might be and you tend to
fall into the camp of okay well it
sounds impressive so I should probably
eat this one when the truth is I have no
idea what it is exactly and and um
actually this is the start uh of where
he's saying Take Back Control eat food
mostly plants not too much and he
continues this story um this s of second
part to this idea when he talks about um
the good and the evil of healing e third
premise like a great many other isms
ideologies nutritionism divides the
world into good and evil so at any given
time in our dietary history there is a
satanic nutrient we are trying to drive
from the food supply today it's the
trans fat for a long time it was
saturated fat
um uh and then and but if you go back
further in history it's very interesting
to see that that the role assigned to
the evil nutrient is constantly changing
if you go back a hundred years to that
the this moment of food fism
characterized by John Harvey Kellogg and
Horus Fletcher these were the great food
Experts of the turn of the last century
they had the sanitarium at Battle Creek
Michigan where all the elites of their
times uh you know Henry Ford William
James Henry James they would go there to
be treated for their food issues and um
and very bizarre Horus Fletcher believed
you had to um you had to chew every bite
a hundred times and that that was the
key to health and they wrote these
special rousing chewing songs to to
inspire people cuz try chewing something
a hundred times it takes a really long
time you will lose weight
uh because you're not doing anything
else um and they had these uh hourly
yogurt enemas for people uh they had I
mean it was just just bizarre food
practices and it was considered like
state-of-the-art science at the time the
great nutritional evil was protein they
felt protein which now of course is a
nutritional good um that uh it was the
worst thing for you it would ruin your
life so in fact that's why we have
breakfast cereal Kellogg became Kellogg
of Kellogg cereal and cereal was
invented to push protein off of the out
of the morning meal and enshrine the
carbohydrate Okay so so the identity of
the evil changes and then on the other
side if you have an evil nutrient you
need a good nutrient okay it's kind of
like the cold war so there's a there's a
good nutrient and the identity of that
is always changing what's the good
nutrient today well it's the omega-3
fatty acid right I mean that is the
Blessed nutrient you get enough of that
you're going to be happy you're going to
not have heart disease you're going to
live forever um and there other good
nutrients well protein is kind of coming
back um uh carbohydrates are going out
they're kind of evil again um and fiber
of course has had a nice long run as a
as a blessed nutrient so um we've had uh
you know so this is how we divide the
world and if we get enough the key to
health is getting enough of the good
nutrients and avoiding enough of the bad
nutrients and then everything will be
fine and it's kind of the Zero Sum
game fourth premise of nutritionism now
that may not seem controversial to you
fourth premise of nutritionism and and
perhaps this is the weirdest um but we
take this for granted that the whole
point of eating is Health that it's what
it's about it's what's at stake when we
eat it's all about health now this is a
very American idea it's not held by a
lot of people elsewhere in the world
historically it hasn't been held by a
lot of people people have eaten for a
great many other reasons besides an
obsession with their health they eat for
pleasure they eat for Community for
family what happens around the table
very very important reason to to eat
they eat for um uh ritual purposes
there's always been a you know religious
reasons we eat this and it's part of our
religious practice they eat for um uh to
express their identity every food
culture has a set of tabos um we're the
people who don't eat this we don't eat
pork or we don't eat meat um so identity
is a very important reason to eat all
these other reasons for eating are
equally legitimate to this single-minded
obsession with Health um and our
obsession with health our reduction of
eating this incredibly Rich interesting
experience that engages us with the
natural world that engages us with other
people to narrow it down to the you know
this this this this aperture of this
obsession with health it hasn't made us
any
healthier what a fascinating little
breakdown
like oh do you know where he really got
me was like protein
and I'm like because protein's the big
thing I've been guilty of being like
very protein positive and he's like well
back in the day protein was the enemy it
was all about the carb and then you
realize that's the whole catch with this
nutritionism and this religion of of
nutrients he's proposing like sit
together eat food mostly plants not too
much it's that simple and God he made a
good for it then didn't he yeah it's
it's really really funny when you've got
an individual who spent so many years
analyzing the food industry the science
of food and you're able to take a step
back and look at the patterns that have
existed over the course of the last even
the last century and seeing this almost
marketing effort from not only the
brands but also the scientists behind
the brands creating these narra
in order to control what it is that
we're purchasing for us and as well as
our families it's a fascinating little
moment of aha or realization isn't it
because suddenly you realize I don't
really have much control over what I'm
purchasing because I'm being influenced
by all of these scientists and all of
these brands in order to purchase the
food that they themselves are putting
out so my level of control until now has
kind of been completely uh influenced
for me and you know in this last clip
Mike when we hear about the point of
food be and the point of eating being
healthy I've certainly fallen into that
camp before well where I'll in
instinctively choose things that don't
really sound that appealing but it
sounds healthy and it sounds as though
that's the sort of thing I should have
whereas what he's really calling out to
us is yeah it's all good just eat good
food eat honest food most of those
plants not too much just keep it simp
rather than over complicating it like
we've experienced with Brands and
marketing so hopefully now for you
myself and all of our listeners we've
made the case um for you know eat food
mostly plants not too much what we're
going to do in a moment is look into how
we can actually make that a habit how we
can actually do that at the grocery
store at the restaurant at home in the
kitchen and together with friends but I
tell you what it is just the moment
before we do that is to celebrate the
expanding Mega Empire of the moonshots
media landscape and Mark if you're
loving the moonshots podcast and you're
listening to this and all the far
reaches of the world it was so great to
see that um where we got a lot of love
over the course of this year on Spotify
was
Kenya
Nigeria Zambia Nepal and Ghana Mark how
cool is that to know that we have
listeners tuning in from all four
corners of the planet it's an amazing
year as we reflect on it Mike isn't it
having listeners coming at us from all
four corners of the globe as
particularly these brand new countries
for us it's really exciting and we're so
pleased to Welcome All of You listeners
into the moonshot family but Mike you're
right we now have this opportunity to
offer our listeners the chance to sign
up and subscribe right directly in the
Apple podcast app to the Master
Series and we're about to record a new
one next week aren't we that's right
next week we're digging into the art of
communication which follows already five
big monthly episodes Mike that we
released just for our subscribers and
our members on areas and topics such as
motivation teamwork the idea of Circle
of influences and ways of thinking and
Frameworks to be more efficient and
productive and these are really deep
Dives comprehensive breakdowns of these
pretty enormous topics Mike that we
touch upon in our weekly shows on the
moonshots podcast but having the ability
to release to our members as well as our
subscribers and apple podcast 90 minute
deep dives into each of these topics is
a real opportunity for us to bring
something brand new into the space it
takes learning out loud to a new level
so if you're listening right now on your
Apple podcast app want you to open it up
and just go into the search and type
moonshots Master Series and you can take
a trial uh so you don't have to pay any
money you can just check it all out you
can listen to all the episodes and if
you like it we would really appreciate
your support so whether you want to
support us in your Apple podcast app or
whether you want to support us by
becoming a member on patreon WE deeply
appreciate it we're really grateful for
that support it helps us build the show
and produce it and send it out to over
45,000 people a month which is
absolutely crazy but you know where else
gets crazy Mark uh that is this concept
of the supermarket and when we think
Michael Poland and in defensive food
there's not a lot that gets crazier than
trying to navigate a supermarket is
there yeah that's right whether you go
in and you get confused and lost like I
do from a layout perspective or in fact
you get lost when you're looking at the
back of the food packets when you're
putting it into your cart what Michael
pollen as well as Michael Moss are going
to break down and discuss for us in this
next clip Mike is how to navigate home
cooking as well as when you're in the
supermarket purchasing food so let's
hear from Michael pollen once again with
the failure in fact of the western diet
Americans spend about half as much time
cooking as they did in the 1960s relying
more than ever on highly processed foods
the New York Times brought to together
noted food journalists Michael moss and
Michael pollen oh my God we got to get
some of these to talk about home cooking
the food industry and navigating a
typical Supermarket you know this seems
like such a tranquil atmosphere here
quiet there's peaceful music smells okay
but Behind These shells is the most
fiercely competitive industry there is
they are all jocking for position on the
Shelf they're fighting each other for
stomach share that they call both
authors have recently published books
Michael Moss investigates the
development and marketing of food
products in salt sugar fat and Michael
pollen rediscovers his own kitchen and
cooked you know a lot of people when
they hear this term processed food
assume it's all the same and it's all
equally bad and and it's actually not
true there are processed foods that are
one or two or maybe three ingredient
processed foods and then there are these
things we call ultr processed or hyper
processed foods uh lunch we have to
something about great product you should
talk about this Oscar Meyer first came
up with this idea because back in the
80s they were having trouble selling red
meat they put their Geniuses together
and they were actually marketing people
look a way of repackaging their
essential ingredients so they started
with the red meat um and then added
cheese when they merged with craft they
used crackers cuz they couldn't uh use
bread and then they came up with this
great kind of school bus yellow Motif
for the package
peach by Craft's own acknowledgement
it's not about the food as much as it is
about the empowerment all day you got to
do what they
say but lunchtime is all yours and look
at the number of ingredients this is a
hyper processed food how do you feel
about frozen vegetables and Frozen well
that's this again goes to that
distinction between processed food uh
and ultr processed food I think frozen
vegetables are a are terrific and I
always have um frozen spinach
and this is a really simple product it's
basically spinach here's a case where I
would buy uh organic but I don't see it
and and that's an important point it's
more important that you eat vegetables
even if they're conventional I'm talking
about for your health than it is that
you wait till you can afford organic or
you can find organic this is a real
convenience food that I think genuinely
is a is a boon to mankind so we'll get
one of those
okay Stony field low fat fruit on the
bottom this has 21 g of sugar per 6 oz
so there is this CH and this is organic
by the way this is illustrates the point
you were making earlier and this is
probiotic got probiotics that's another
magic word yeah but it has 26 g of sugar
this has more sugar in it than Coca-Cola
so I once asked a uh yogurt manufacturer
14 by the way uh why you don't have the
equivalent of Honest Tea for yogurt like
for adults who don't want to be swamped
with sugar or don't want to give their
kids sugar right um and he and he
explained to me how the pressure the
arms raised to get more and more sugar
in is irresistible if your competitor
has more sugar they're going to sell
more yogurt so you have to match them
there was a company I ran into that put
a ticker tape of the showing their stock
price in the lobby so their employees
could see it every morning when they
came to work so they would know what was
most important right but they're playing
of course with these very deep desires
we have that we we don't have that much
control over and those are the the
levers that they're manipulating
[Music]
constantly I
mean when you realize they're looking at
organic yogurt and it has more sugar
than
Coke I this really hit me to just the
just the you have to be careful of this
nutritionism and you know he gives us
some some great rules that we're going
to talk about in a second but this is
why we have to like take control of our
diet isn't it Mark I mean a huge amount
of sugar and you know I'm I'm guilty of
sugar for sure Mike it's totally
irresistible for me as well and it's
isn't it funny hearing these two
navigating the supermarket calling out
what they're seeing on the back
the the products and you think yeah
probiotic yogurt that sounds good it's a
buzz word I've heard before must be good
for my gut I'm going to be really
healthy but without having that moment
of pause and checking what's on the side
you know we're all going to fall into
the camp of of consuming more sugar than
cocacola I mean that's
enormous ah I mean that is just shocking
so I think it's now time Mark that we go
what level deeper into this Mantra and
uh Poland has you know some some great
wisdom for us that he builds um and I
want you and I to kind of go back to
back here right um and look at these
rules that I think are very helpful for
us and for our listeners if we want to
eat food mostly plants not too much
here's Michael Poland's golden rules
that are in his book in defense of food
okay Mark you ready I'm ready
okay first one so he's this is just
we're just going to break down like some
simple things some simple rules and
habits you can have eat only foods that
will
eventually
rot now do you remember uh in the super
siis me film when uh Morgan Spurlock
left the fries for a month and they
didn't decompose yes and this is what
this one's talking about yeah people
have have even preserved hamburgers in
their cupboards or whatever for years
and they barely degrade okay don't eat
that stuff okay your turn eat only foods
that have been cooked by
humans once once again you like you
start to
realize particularly on that takeout
stuff or maybe some of those quick
microwave meals that we take we have to
question that I love this one this one's
going to make life hard avoid food you
see advertised on
television that one's that one's really
hard isn't it well you know where I
think he's going with that one is like
um all the package processed foods have
to advertise on television like you
don't see an ad for for broccoli or I
I've never seen an ad for broccoli or
caulif brussels sprouts what about
brussels sprouts you ever seen an ad for
that no and I love Brussel
sprats all right come on let's keep the
good habits going what do we got we the
next one we've got treat meat as a
flavoring or special occasion food so
only once every so often or maybe just
use it to add that little bit of flavor
into your cooking that's a good one yeah
and just on that there's a little side
note in the book which is kind of cool
um where he says prefer no legs over one
right I.E go for some
fish if you can't do that prefer two
legs over four so once again you see
what he's doing he's like you know beef
has to be a really special occasion um
chicken a bit more fish even better so
you see that little scale there that he
gives us to help
us all right my go it's your go okay
here we go if it came from a plant eat
it if it was made by a plant don't I
have no idea what he's talking about
well I I think I think Mike what's that
saying is if it came from a plant you
know vegetables broccoli cauliflower
then that's okay but if it was made in a
plant like a factory then don't it's
processed it's a nice little play on
words that one so I'm still thinking
does he mean eat the leaves not the
fruit but that doesn't make sense glad
you helped me glad you helped me all
right next eat your colors that is eat
as many different kinds of plants as
possible a nice variety that's good yeah
that makes sense use smaller plates and
glasses oh my gosh that's something that
I have to do
that's a hard one that's a hard one the
next one which I really like serve the
vegetables first first on your plate
first in the in the process of dinner
having your vegetables first because I
guess Mike you end up kind of getting
Fuller quicker so maybe you eat less
meat yeah so we used this trick uh with
our son when he was younger where we
we'd give him like uh you know cucumbers
and carrots before
dinner and that's a little trick for
getting your kids to eat healthy because
once they see um you know some fries
potatoes yeah and and some chicken on
the on the thing they'll go for that and
then they'll be like I'm too full yes
yes um okay uh next one uh make water
your beverage of choice huge believer in
this one I'm totally sold on that um
what's next yep I'm totally sold on that
one too I'm glad I got to read this one
out because this is my going back to our
question listeners of what diet habit
you'd want to change this next one from
mop poen is stop eating before you're
full Mike I am so guilty of this one I
will eat until I'm
bursting yeah and uh one of the the
things that came up so far in the show
was actually just eat slower and it and
it becomes uh you actually start to
realize you're full because I believe
technically it's a 15minute delay
between eating and feeling uh the
apprpriate level of satiation so if you
can just take your time you'll actually
not feel like eating the food yeah that
makes sense um eat more like the French
do uh which is they just take a lot more
time to eat than the average American
almost twice as much time spent eating
and it's not the volume but it's the
time together letting you actually
letting yourself feel full rather than
hofing it all down that's a good one
isn't it yeah and this next one as well
the food rules try to spend as much time
enjoying the meal as it took to prepare
it again Mike I'm pretty guilty of this
we'll we'll spend maybe an hour or so
making a nice dinner on the weekends and
you finish it within five or 10 minutes
and there's that value exchange is sort
of out the window so I really like that
one spend as much time enjoying it as it
took to prepare it I know that's a good
one equally good second last one don't
eat anything your great-grandmother
wouldn't Rec recognizes
food that's that's a bit of a game
changer right there isn't it yeah a nice
honest one there and to finally close us
off break the rules once in a while I
think that's a really nice one to end on
isn't it Mike because at the end of the
day we all need that moment occasionally
for a special occasion food uh just to
treat
ourselves so just a reminder before we
play you the last clip from Michael
Poland the big question for today's show
is what is one food and diet habit you
want to change and I hope that those F
food rules gave a lot of inspiration it
sounds like you and I need to take our
time and stop before we're full that
that that could be that could be one for
us right yeah and I'm really really
interested to hear from you our
listeners on what diet habit you you're
looking to change so again get in touch
with us on Twitter Instagram YouTube
leave us a comment because we'd love to
hear from you as well that's right just
head to Moon shots. and you can find all
the gazillion and million different ways
of connecting to the show but to round
this show out I think it is only
appropriate that we hear from Michael
making his final case for the title of
his book why we need to defend food had
a series of events over the last several
decades that I think have uh alerted
people to the fact that maybe they
should pay a little more attention to
where the food comes from we had cow
disease that was a that was a an amazing
moment a teachable moment in a way um it
was limited to Europe for the most part
there were a couple cases here um but
suddenly we learned that wait a minute
we're feeding cows to cows they don't
they eat grass and Grain and um and so
we learned something and then the demand
for organic meat soared we had um
various food safety scandals involving
fast food which also increased interest
in Alternatives a big one here theer
that's right the steria case and we had
um the allar case with apples in America
in the 9s which suddenly people were
like Panic for organic was the headline
in Newsweek magazine um so every time
the industrial food system has a scandal
like that interest in Alternatives and
curiosity about the source of food grows
but it never lasts it takes almost it it
takes just a little bit of advertising
to get us to go back to square one it it
feels like anyway yeah well you know the
stories go away but look at the the
growth in the alternative markets since
1990 when organic really gets started uh
that that segment has grown 20% a year
uh even through this recession organic
food growth rates went down but it
continued to grow at about 10% a year um
local food is the fastest growing
segment in the food system um I'm
talking about you know local farms to
institutions and also farmers markets
and csas so the continuing expansion of
altern of the alternative food economy
suggests that this is not completely
forgotten that people have had their
Consciousness raised about food and it's
convinced many people not everybody and
still only just a segment that it's
worth paying more for food you know more
about defend it and protect it really
consider what it is that you're
purchasing and where you're purchasing
because at the end of the day as we've
heard from Michael throughout this show
Mike as well as in his book in defense
of food there are times when our
decision making has kind of been made
for us so rather than fall into that
camp of being convinced that you need to
go out and buy that probiotic yogurt the
truth is it has almost as much cocacola
as much sugar as there is in cocacola I
think this is a great wakeup call for
me it really is it's it's it's about the
intentionality um it's it's a it's a
story of taking control and putting
inside of yourself good stuff so you can
feel good and don't
underestimate the tricks that we can
fall for I mean oh my gosh organic
yogurt that has more sugar than cke back
in the day protein was evil now it's the
Savior like just take a step back enjoy
this perspective of Michael Poland and I
think it's really transformational isn't
it it's really really transformation and
I think the important connection that I
can see as we reflect on our health
series again it's just down to ownership
we can control what we're purchasing and
cooking absolutely true so Mark I got to
hit you with the big
question what is the One Singular food
and diet habit that you want to change
now that we've dug into Michael Poland's
work it's really again coming back to
Michael's Mantra you know not too much I
tend to eat pretty good quite healthy
food most of the time but I definitely
Gorge until I'm getting into that
lethargic lazy sleepy space food
coma exactly that's the thing the diet
change and habit that I'd look to to
amend going forward yeah yeah I'm I'm
I'm similar I think my thing was always
like like oh I should eat a ton to fuel
me
um and it's a misconception um it's very
powerful stuff isn't it m it's very very
powerful stuff and I'm pleased that we
got to dig into in defense of food today
with you our listeners it's been great
yeah it has really been a treat so thank
you to you Mark and thank you to you our
listeners thank you for all your
feedback your shoutouts your membership
your support we truly do appreciate it
and we are very grateful as we are
grateful for the work of Michael Poland
here on show 158 the book indefensive
food and Michael came out hard and
strong with his Mantra eat food mostly
plants not too much because we live in
this age of nutritional ISM where others
are telling us how to eat where they're
hooking us with the new fad leading us
astray his call to us is take control
because eating is a key part of your
health and feeling good so you must
understand that the modern Western diet
has failed where we fall for organic
yogurt that has more sugar than Coke
where this and that fad are controlling
us we need to defend food we need to be
intentional we need to take control good
food that makes us feel good that is the
celebration that we've had here together
in the moonshots podcast that's a wrap