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Join RESOLVE’s leadership team for an in-depth look at what it takes to pass pro-family legislation, protect IVF, and what we’re up against.
HOSTS
President & CEO, Barb Collura
Chief Engagement Officer, Betsy Campbell
Chief External Affairs Officer, Rebecca Flick
ABOUT RESOLVE
RESOLVE: The National Infertility Association is the largest non-profit patient advocacy organization in the country focusing on increasing access to all family building options through insurance coverage and policy changes as well as protecting fertility care like IVF from legislation.
This is infertility Course, a podcast from Resolve, the National Infertility Association. I'm one of your hosts, Rebecca Flick.
Barb Collura:Hi there. This is Barb Collura
Betsy Campbell:Hi. It's Betsy Campbell.
Rebecca Flick:And we are here at another Friday morning, bright and early, 9 AM on the East Coast when we like to record these. I like to to force my colleagues to have early morning podcasts so we don't get distracted.
Barb Collura:I'm an I'm a morning person. I love it. Timing is great for me. This is Our
Rebecca Flick:brain is fresh. That's his
Barb Collura:that's his dream. I'm a morning person.
Rebecca Flick:Well, I I know we can't see this, but I am drinking coffee out of my at my Embryo, my Choice mug, given, to us by one of our amazing board members, Andrea Braverman.
Barb Collura:She had those mugs made and and she has a, host a conference every year for mental health professionals in our space. And she had those mugs made and actually sold them at her conference this year as a fundraiser for Resolve. Isn't that cool? And she said, I think they, like, sold out. And then she saved some set aside a few for those of us on on the staff.
Barb Collura:So it's very cool.
Rebecca Flick:Yes. It's a great mug too. Nice and Yeah.
Barb Collura:It is a good mug. It's hefty and good. Yeah.
Rebecca Flick:So we've had quite a week. It's been a busy week, like, always at Resolve, but, there was something interesting that happened, Barb. Were you not expecting to have to make a statement this week?
Barb Collura:Our PR firm does such a great job of, putting together content and statements and, you know, fielding media inquiries and all that, and they really keep their pulse on on what's happening, in the in the news cycle and and in the public sphere, and then they give us advice on, hey, weigh in on this or maybe you shouldn't. But this week, our statement talked about cat ladies. I never thought at Resolve we would be talking about cats or cat ladies. But sadly, we we are and we needed to put out a statement because one of our political candidates for elected office, before he was a political candidate for elected office this cycle, when he was a political candidate a few years back, he talked about people without children and disparaged them. And, it really made you feel like people who don't have children don't really have any kind of worth in our society.
Barb Collura:So, we ended up putting out a statement, and we already have several media hurtful. And, certainly, our community did not, appreciate it.
Rebecca Flick:You know, in the social media community, I think, it it was well received and and people who
Barb Collura:Our statement was well received, I think is what you mean. Right?
Rebecca Flick:Yes. Our statement was well received. And it was it you know, recognizing that there are many different reasons people are without children or live childfree or childless. And sometimes it's not a choice. It's a choice that they have to walk away from, and that's the choices they need to walk away from trying to grow their family.
Rebecca Flick:And we have a lot of advocates who identify that way, and I know it was very hurtful to them. And and, you know, it's definitely the reason we have to advocate in many different ways. It's not always just being political. It's advocating for people, just standing up for who they are and, and how they live their life. And that's just definitely a value at Resolve.
Barb Collura:Well, we're, you know, we're we're a patient advocacy organization. So our job is to advocate for our community and that means in all ways. So, you know, we're the we're the voice of the patient. We're the ones that are speaking for the millions of people. You know, when when Betsy talks to the media or, Rebecca, when you give a talk or when I give a talk or talk to the media, we're speaking for millions of people.
Barb Collura:It's not the world according to Barb or the world according to Betsy. It's the world according to what our patient community not only patient community, but our family billing community. And and many of us, you know, are not necessarily patients. So who's speaking for us? We are.
Barb Collura:We are. So that's really what patient advocacy is all about. And I don't know. The word advocacy, it can sometimes be a loaded word in our in in our world today.
Rebecca Flick:Mhmm.
Betsy Campbell:And all it means is give voice to. And if our community isn't speaking, there's a phrase that says, if you're not at the table, you're on the menu. We're gonna be on the chopping block if we're not at the table speaking up.
Rebecca Flick:Absolutely. So let's dive into the to today's topic. We wanna talk about getting political and what that means. And, you know, I like to bring songs into the mix. So as you're listening to this, just have Olivia Newton John running in your mind, rent free.
Rebecca Flick:Let's get physical. Let's get political because we don't think it's a dirty word. And as Betsy said, whether it's advocacy or politics or getting political can turn people away. And I think we're at a moment in time where we need the government, whether it's state or federal, to help solve some of our problems. So that's my first question to you both since you had our federal and state advocacy work.
Rebecca Flick:What does what can our lawmakers what can our government do for our community?
Barb Collura:Okay. You said for our community, which means positively. What can, what can they solve? You know, I like to approach things as what, what are we solving for? What can they solve for?
Barb Collura:And, you know, I just I wanna just back up for a minute because political let's get I mean, wow. I have that Olivia Newton John. Wasn't wasn't there, like, a MTV video where she was in, like, a workout outfit or something and there was, like, a headband and some, like, boxing gloves or something.
Betsy Campbell:It's very, like, racy for the time.
Barb Collura:Oh my gosh.
Rebecca Flick:I did not I did not make a steam dress today for our our
Barb Collura:our listeners. Thank you. Because no one would wanna see that. But I will tell you that if you have no idea what I'm talking about, go go on, I don't know, YouTube or somewhere and find that TikTok, Barb. TikTok.
Barb Collura:No. Find the video. Find the music video. It's probably not on TikTok, honey. Probably is.
Rebecca Flick:We're we're definitely showing our our generation here.
Barb Collura:But let's get physical. Now. Let's get political. I just can't wait to talk about this because I have to tell you. I have to just tell you something that happened just recently.
Barb Collura:We are in the midst of a fundraising campaign, and, we, you know, talked to a lot of people and trying to, you know, persuade people to be joyful donors and give to resolve as their charitable giving. And, somebody said no. And this this this person, has definitely supported financially, this community, not resolved, but but this community so we knew there was was definitely an opportunity. And the reason this this person said no, and I'm certainly not gonna say anything about who this person is or what they do or, how they've benefited from resolve services, but, this person said, you know, I'm gonna leave the politics to others and I'm not gonna donate to resolve. So I'm I'm kind of a little raw right now about this topic because I got that that note back and I just it just oh my goodness.
Barb Collura:Betsy, it made me I don't know. I can't even describe it. I was I was frustrated. I was sad. So what do you I mean, what do we do at the state level?
Barb Collura:I'll let you go first. What do we do at the state level? And and and let's talk about what our governments at the state level actually do to support our community.
Betsy Campbell:Well well, first, I'd like to just address the word politics and political as being a bad word. If you if you look it up in the dictionary, political means relating to the government or the public affairs of a country or state. So if you Are involved in trying to change laws to help people, for example, get insurance for infertility, which I spend a lot of time doing in a lot of states, that's political. The important work, we do at the federal level to protect IVF, to provide tax credits for adoption, to help our military build their families. Guess what?
Betsy Campbell:That's all political. And it's a good word. It's necessary. So if we're not doing it, who will? If the patient voice isn't being heard, other voices that don't like IVF or don't wanna, you know, tamper with insurance so that they can, you know, make even more profits perhaps.
Betsy Campbell:Anyway, if those those people are being heard and we're not, it's gonna hurt our community, patients, providers, future grandparents, it's it hurts everybody.
Barb Collura:You know, I'm just getting so fired up, thinking about this because what this individual was saying is I'm I'm choosing to be on the sidelines. I'm choosing to not get involved and I'm gonna quote leave it to others. You know, it's this like finger pointing and you you I don't know if this I honestly don't know if this person hopes that there are others that'll get involved and make sure that all the good happens and all the bad doesn't happen. I don't know. But this this choice of sitting on the sidelines, I think is what upsets me the most.
Rebecca Flick:It's uncomfortable to
Barb Collura:stand up
Rebecca Flick:for what to stand up for what you really believe in.
Barb Collura:I thought you're gonna say it's uncomfortable being on the sidelines. I guess that's the easy part.
Rebecca Flick:We should make it uncomfortable for people who sit on the sidelines, honestly. You know, but I think some people feel like I I can't really show what I I truly believe in because it's uncomfortable. And, I learned something last night, in my, like, personal life, you know, that it is uncomfortable to stand up for what you believe in, and you're gonna get your hands dirty, and you're gonna get your butt kicked by others, and you have to be brave enough to stand up.
Barb Collura:And I think
Rebecca Flick:we do that every day at Resolve, that, you know, it is we have come a long way, politically, in the past few years because we used to just have to make sure that we weren't upsetting anyone
Barb Collura:Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Rebecca Flick:With any belief system, and we realized that's not getting us anywhere. And it is uncomfortable to have to stand up and be like, we are sorry if you believe this way. But if you continue to believe this way, this medical treatment will not be available anymore if we don't stand up and fight for it. And something else, when I was listening to both of you talk, the word patient, you know, I think we wanna make clear to our community, we understand that not everybody who struggles to build a family becomes a patient necessarily in an IVF clinic, and we wanna recognize that. But you're facing for the large, large majority of the community that needs us, you're facing something medical.
Rebecca Flick:And so we have to fall into a category within the nonprofit sector of being a patient advocacy group because we are advocating for medical services. But we also do a lot, you know, making sure adoption is available and making sure that procedures for the LGBTQ community are available. So we know not everybody is a patient putting on that gown and walking to a doctor's office. Know that what we're doing is for everybody who struggles to build a family, now and tomorrow.
Barb Collura:Yeah. Yeah. No. Excellent, excellent point. I I think the there there's a term, in the nonprofit space called patient advocacy and that sort of like that sort of like is the category we fall in, but our community is so much broader than that.
Barb Collura:But, Betsy, I know Rebecca asked us a question, and we should probably answer it.
Betsy Campbell:We dodged it.
Barb Collura:Well, it's just I just had that that communication fresh in my mind and this whole conversation about politics and being political. And, and I I I I think, you know, we're we are, we have a certain tax code that we have to follow. It's called, it's a nonprofit 501c3, and it's a charitable organization and most, you know, most nonprofits that people donate who are listening in are 501c threes. Right? So it's pretty common.
Barb Collura:And we can do a lot. We can do a lot in the advocacy arena. We can hire lobbyists. We can we can advocate, but there's things we can't do. And, and and that are just out not just not that we wouldn't wanna do them, but we literally cannot do them because the IRS says we can't do them.
Barb Collura:But, Betsy, tell us what we can do at the state level. Tell us what we do do at the state level and how we use the state government to help our community.
Betsy Campbell:Happy to. And just I want to mention that adoption laws are typically at the federal level. So when, we're in states, adoption usually is not a topic unless, states are trying to pass laws that are discriminatory, for example, to the LGBTQ plus community. So we would be involved there. But for the most part at the state level, we're trying to change insurance laws because right now there are only 14 states that cover IVF, which is the standard of care for many patients.
Betsy Campbell:And that's not right. So, we are. Trying to add more states every year. And, we've been active in about 5 or 6 states this past year. We had some success in passing fertility preservation laws recently, but, we've been in a number of states for quite a few years trying to pass pass, infertility insurance, you know, insurance that covers treatments, ranging even the diagnosis for infertility or in some states, the diagnosis is covered, but the treatment is not.
Betsy Campbell:I can't think of any other disease where you get your diagnosis and then your insurance stops. The treatment is not covered.
Barb Collura:Why can't we just do this all at the federal level, Betsy? Why do we have to go to state capital to state capital to state capital? Why can't it why can't we just go to congress and have them do all this?
Betsy Campbell:Well, we do have a bill in congress, but as everyone knows, it takes a really long time to pass federal laws. And so, we have found that even though it takes time at the state level, that is a more direct route, and states have their own insurance codes. So we, you know, work with state lawmakers and state insurance, departments. And, you know, as we've always said, elected officials work for their constituents. And so we're really good at mobilizing our community, both patients and providers and people who care about or know people struggling to build their families.
Betsy Campbell:And we bring them together and provide an opportunity for them often to talk directly in that lawmakers office through our state advocacy days, where we provide them the tools to help them set up meetings with their lawmakers. We make it very easy for them to send emails and letters to their lawmakers, knowing that they're one of the 1 in 6 and that we're in your district struggling with this problem. And we need your help to, You know, fix this law that doesn't provide coverage for the one thing I need. I pay health insurance for a number of things that I don't need it for, but the one thing I do isn't covered.
Barb Collura:Well, and so you're what you're saying is there are there are certain levers that state governments have over certain types of insurance plans. In other words, they control, certain types of insurance plans in a particular state, and only a state government can influence that. Federal government doesn't have any say over some of those in in many ways. I shouldn't say it doesn't have a say, but but it's it's hard. It's very, very hard.
Barb Collura:It's easier for a state. So, so there are, individual plans, small group plans, large group plans in the fully insured market. There are, state Medicaid, state employees. Right? Yeah.
Barb Collura:Right. And so state governments covered by legislation. So state governments have control over those insurance plans in in their particular state. State governments can't do much for really big companies, companies that typically have over, like, 500 employees because they're under a a labor law. And their, state governments can't do anything about the military that live in their state or even like the federal employees that live in their state.
Betsy Campbell:So the large employers, they're considered self insured employers. They can voluntarily add these benefits. So that's why resolve has this parallel program. You know, we we've we try to change laws at the state level and federal level, but we also encourage people to go
Barb Collura:to HR and ask their employers to voluntarily add the coverage. And we've had a lot of success there. So The other cool thing is what what you and I have seen, Betsy, is that when a state legislature passes an insurance mandate, which is what they're called a mandate, It's a requirement. That's why it's called a mandate. It's not a dirty word.
Barb Collura:A lot of, of these companies that are self insured that don't have to follow the law at all. They voluntarily do it because now the labor market has changed a little bit in their state and employees are are wanting that. They might switch jobs. Right? They
Betsy Campbell:wanna stay competitive.
Barb Collura:Yeah. They wanna stay competitive. So, Rebecca, you were gonna say something.
Rebecca Flick:Well, I know our coverage at work program is has gained a lot of momentum, has become very successful, but I do remember a day when patients would hear from their HR departments about IVF coverage is, That's too political. Like, we don't wanna get involved in that.
Barb Collura:Or Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Rebecca Flick:Or when we would approach a company do you remember, Barb, when we put together the HOPE Award for access, acknowledging a company with great benefits, a lot of companies are like, we don't wanna publicize that.
Barb Collura:Do you remember, I won't name it, it was a major financial institution. We had, 2 employees within the company who promote who came to us and said, we want our employer to win this award. We have amazing benefits. They put us in touch with HR. They even put us in touch with their corporate communications people.
Barb Collura:And I remember we you and I were so excited. We're like, oh my god. We have these inside people. They're gonna grease the skids for us. And the the the financial institution came back and said, yeah.
Barb Collura:This is this is too political. We don't wanna, we don't want our we don't want the world knowing we have this benefit. We were like, what? It was weird.
Betsy Campbell:That's changed a lot recently.
Barb Collura:Oh, it has.
Rebecca Flick:Yeah. It
Barb Collura:has for sure. For sure. Now at the federal level, to answer your question, we go to congress and there's there's the federal level is a little bit different in that there are things the administration can do, and then there are things that only can be done through an act of congress or creating a law. But where we feel like there's opportunity for the administration to make a change, we we we push for that. It's not always easy or easier, but but just to make sure that people understand that.
Barb Collura:For example, like the Department of Defense. The Department of Defense, could potentially say, hey, we wanna we IVF is gonna be a regular part of our of our TRICARE benefits. To our under defenses said, actually, we think Congress needs to weigh in on that. So sometimes that happens. And then when you think about federal employees, their HR department, if you will, is called the Office of Personnel Management or OPM, and we've really, really tried working with, the administration and leadership in OPM to voluntarily make that change.
Barb Collura:And they've done quite a bit, on their on their own in terms of adding coverage. We're not quite there yet. But when we feel like there's an opportunity for Congress to weigh in, we work to get legislation introduced, and then we advocate for that. We we motivate people to talk to their, US senators and their representative. We organize a federal advocacy day.
Barb Collura:We are constantly talking to lawmakers. I had something brought to my attention actually through LinkedIn early yesterday morning. By the afternoon, I had already emailed a staffer with a US senator asking for their help. That person already emailed me back and said we're already working on it, and here's what we're doing. And we have a call set up next week with that staffer to find out what they're doing.
Barb Collura:So, that's that's kind of some things that don't even have legislation, Rebecca, where it's just, you know, we're just using our, position as resolve, if you will, to to make that change. But with Congress, we have identified areas where we think they can make a huge difference, and that's with coverage for our military, coverage for veterans. We want members of congress pressuring OPM to make coverage for federal employees more robust. And then just recently, we got a really critical bill introduced that we've never had before at this level. It's really focused on those self insured plans, and it, would have a huge impact on employees across the country, and it's a bipartisan bill and it's an insurance requirement bill.
Barb Collura:So, it got introduced in the House of Representatives. So that bill is super important, and that can only be done through Congress. Like, amending what's what it's doing is amending a particular provision that requires these, self insured employers to, to do certain things. And in this case, cover IVF. I know that we have a lot of grievances and there are certain things that Congress can do.
Barb Collura:There are things that maybe not necessarily, they they can do. And and I hope that we at Resolve are directing people in the right way so that we're focused, their time. Look. Everyone's time is valuable. If I'm gonna ask you to advocate, I want it to be for something that's really actually meaningful and something that can make a difference and something that is a a sound piece of legislation.
Barb Collura:So, just it's really important for us as a community to show up and to be effective, but we wanna be sure we're using our time on things that, make sense and that can make a difference.
Rebecca Flick:Yeah. I think, that's where our advocates and our community should hopefully breathe a little sigh of relief that we are making sure that policies and laws are going to make a difference, that are sound, that are inclusive. You know, when you talked about the DOD, it brought me back to when George, my husband, and I were going through treatment, and we had insurance coverage through the Department of Defense, and that insurance covered coverage would not cover our IVF until either I had experienced 3 miscarriages. 3 miscarriages before it kicked in. I could not even get pregnant or, 3 years of unsuccessful
Barb Collura:And did you have some ginormous deductible too? Yes. I feel like you had, like, a $6,000 deductible or something like that.
Rebecca Flick:Before it would kick in, and it wouldn't cover medication. So what is the first thing you do? You pay for your medication. So there were so many hurdles. It wasn't even helpful.
Rebecca Flick:But I do remember my doctor helping me with documentation and information to give the insurance company to say she can't get pregnant in order to go through the torture of 3 pregnancy losses. 3 of these cases.
Barb Collura:Yeah.
Rebecca Flick:I mean, so we are looking out for that, is my point, is that we wouldn't allow a state law or a federal law to not really have the patient in mind.
Barb Collura:Well, let me let's go back to where we started this conversation about politics and political. So, Betsy, you're you're advocating to state governments. I'm advocating to the federal government. We're getting people involved and engaged. Is that political?
Barb Collura:Are we are we involved in politics? That is political. We are, imploring our government to, fix a grievance.
Betsy Campbell:So yes, that is political, but there's a difference between political and partisan and we actually have to be. Political in order to enlist our lawmakers to pass laws, we need to educate them. And so yes, that's political, but are we part of. Absolutely not. I, we are non partisan.
Betsy Campbell:Our legislation should be bipartisan. So, I think we just need to sort of reframe, what political means. And, you know, unfortunately in today's climate, you know, you can become sort of a, a political football, but, that does not mean that our work is partisan. I mean, everything now is political, the environment, education, healthcare. So if you care about any of those issues, you need to be involved and that's means being political.
Barb Collura:Yeah. And I know I know we could talk about this for hours and I just wanna make sure I recognize that there's also ways that the government, both at the federal or state level, can hurt our community. And I know we we probably should, Rebecca, leave that to another episode just to really get into that because that's definitely another thing that we do at Resolve is we work very, very hard to ensure that our political environment doesn't hurt our community, and so we have to get involved. Right? So can we just can we go back to this point about this individual who said, I'm gonna leave that to others, this being on the sidelines and just kind of I don't know.
Barb Collura:Rebecca kinda wrap us up in that about how do we feel about that? How do what is what is our message at Resolve to people who are saying, I I think somebody else should do this.
Rebecca Flick:This is where, for people that aren't watching, I look up to the side and filter myself, to give a PG version. We're not going to be successful if we don't have this community and people who care about these issues stand up and get political.
Barb Collura:But it's everybody. It's not just Yep. It's not just the it's everybody.
Rebecca Flick:It's people that care about our issues. And there are gonna be people that don't care. And if they don't care and they're benefiting from this community, that is even worse.
Barb Collura:Here's here's a here's a thought. Here's a thought. If you were choosing to be on the sidelines, at least donate. Right? At least donate.
Barb Collura:Because you know what? That's actually not being on the sidelines. But if you are somebody who has benefited from medical treatment, who's benefited from building your family through adoption, who's benefit from support. Having insurance coverage. Anybody who's benefited from having insurance coverage, you need to get involved.
Barb Collura:I love to say we had 670 people at advocacy day, but why didn't we have, like, 60,000 people at advocacy day? Why didn't we have, you know, that kind of turnout? Because that's how many people, could could be. Millions of people could be engaged in our advocacy work and, god, what a difference that would make. So many people are choosing to be on the sidelines, and I like what you said earlier.
Barb Collura:Maybe we need to make it a little uncomfortable for people to be on the sidelines, and that's a little bit provocative for me to say. But I'm fired up today, and I just feel as if I don't know that we have the luxury of choosing to be on the sidelines.
Rebecca Flick:Not anymore. Definitely not.
Betsy Campbell:All right. Barb, I'm not sure of the person you're talking about, but I bet they don't live in Michigan where for decades there was a law banning surrogacy and lo and behold, someone who had to go out of state to build a family through surrogacy, decided that she would try to change that law. And so she formed a grassroots movement that we supported and that, law archaic law was overturned just last month. So, you know, if you stay on the sidelines and you're, and the, and the, and you're okay with the status quo, then in Michigan, you didn't have surrogacy as a family building option. And now you do.
Rebecca Flick:Well, that's a great place to wrap up this episode. Anyone have anything they wanna share about getting smarter? We reserve the right to get smarter at resolve. I know Betsy went last time, but Barb?
Barb Collura:Oh, gosh. Now you're gonna put me on the spot. You know, I, I have to think about that for this week. I I know you you've you've made us you've you've given us the freedom to make it not just work related, but, you know, I think that I think that I I'll just say this. I think that I sometimes get a little bit complacent in in how I approach my job and work, and I forget that there are a lot of opportunities for me to learn new things.
Barb Collura:And I have to kinda put myself out there. I used to, like oh, my god. I used to love, like, professional development
Betsy Campbell:and
Barb Collura:going to training and doing all that, and maybe it's my age. And it's I don't feel like I'm sitting here saying, oh, I know it all. Not at all. But I just I don't prioritize it. And so I think I need to get a little bit smarter about that, and I feel like I I need to make some progress there.
Rebecca Flick:That's a good one. I know I need to, get smarter about AI and its impact on communications, and it really scares me because I just want people to make sure that they understand how to write informed sentences without the use of technology. So I will promise to get smarter in that area and not be so scared. That's my goal.
Barb Collura:There you go. There you
Betsy Campbell:go. There's a webinar in our inbox that we're supposed to be taking. I know. I know.
Rebecca Flick:That's why I will I will between podcast, board meeting, professional development feels like a good goal. Alright. Well, thank you both. I, I did wanna end with a a lyric from the song that this episode is about, but I looked up those lyrics, and, there's nothing I should, repurpose.
Barb Collura:From Olivia Newton John, let's be physical.
Rebecca Flick:Let's yeah. So please, if you're not familiar with this song, have, fun. And I think we're gonna start, we'll start a playlist.
Barb Collura:Oh my gosh. On Spotify. And then they're gonna be like, what does this tell us about these people at Resolve? This is the group of songs that they've chosen for their playlist. But, yeah, that would be fun.
Barb Collura:That would be super fun. Well, you know how I like to end this. Go to resolve.org. Please look up in the top right hand corner. There's a little button called donate.
Barb Collura:We would love to have your support, and I want you to know that it doesn't need to be, 1,000,000 of dollars. Although, if you're listening and you know somebody who has 1,000,000 of dollars, my email is on our website. But people forget how important, even $10 a month is to our organization. So thank you for considering that and, and listening.