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No state has fallen further than Kansas in America’s Health Rankings. We used to be 8th in 1991.
Why did we slip so far down in the rankings? The answer might surprise you; it’s based on a leadership challenge.
At the Kansas Health Foundation, our bold vision is to make Kansas the healthiest state in the nation and to do so, this movement must be powered by Kansans in positions of authority and influence to shift Health outcomes.
Starting with the launch of the 2025 publication, Leading Health, written by President and CEO of the Kansas Health Foundation, Ed O’Malley, this podcast aims to break down key concepts of this leadership challenge and actionable ways that we can work together to make a real impact on Health in Kansas.
In each episode, Ed O’Malley, and Senior Advisor at Kansas Health Foundation, Susan Kang, will highlight a chapter in the book and discuss with Kansans who are actively engaged in expanding our definition of Health.
Leading Health is an invitation to move the needle on Health in Kansas, and we invite you to join us in leading the way.
Ep16
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Welcome and Series Recap
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[00:00:00]
Ed O'Malley: Welcome back to another episode of the Leading Health podcast. Susan, we are here again talking about this book, Leading Health: How You and 30,000 Kansans Help Communities Thrive. We are [00:01:00] well into this podcast series. It's following, the series is following the book. Part one of the book, the first third of the podcast, was all about America's health rankings, and how it's a good description of what's happening in Kansas, and how Kansas used to be one of the healthiest states, but no state fell further, and we've gotta turn that around. Part two of the book was all about how, hey, we think it's a health challenge. It's not a health challenge, it's a leadership challenge, and it's a specifically a leadership challenge where those in the 30,000, by that we mean Kansans in roles of civic authority across our state, they have a unique job to play And we need them to play it. And part three of the book is where we describe what that looks like. And today, we are digging into the wonkiest chapter in the book about valuing process and structure. We're gonna make this wonky [00:02:00] chapter a great conversation, Susan, aren't we?
Susan Kang: Yes, we are. And I'm especially a fan of this chapter because the whole notion of process and structure was always difficult for me.
And it was not until I started this job here that I understand the importance of it,
Ed O'Malley: I loved writing this chapter. I'm not even sure if it's a very good chapter. But I, I loved writing it because it was the first time I was trying to put on paper something that I've never heard spoken about, I've never seen written about- Mm-hmm
uh, but I know is alive and well in whether game-changing things happen or not. So it was a really kind of grand experiment, and we're gonna unpack it.
Susan Kang: Yeah.
Why the How Matters
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Susan Kang: And what, what, for me, what this does is this is a chapter about the how.
Ed O'Malley: Mm.
Susan Kang: Right? Mm. It's about the how, and the emphasis on the how, and why it's important to put the emphasis on the how, in addition to the what and the why, right?
Everyone talks about the what and the why. But [00:03:00] nobody talks about the how. Yeah. And, and I think it's really important.
Ed O'Malley: Yeah, you know, it's how are we gonna lead the nation in health? How are we gonna make progress on this particular health issue? And we can get into a lot of examples, and we are gonna be joined later in the episode again by Kenny Wilk. Yay. Uh, I'm, I'm very excited that Kenny's back with us again, , talking about, uh, this particular chapter. I think, , this is a topic that he'll have a lot of value and insight, , to share. Susan, as we, as we get in, what would be useful for us to land- Mm-hmm ... do we think, before we get Kenny up here?
Susan Kang: So when I say the how, right? And so the vision is the what, right? And the how is, you know, how to make that vision come to life. And so that's what this, chapter, uh, is about. Talk about why the process and structure, th- that is to say, the how, why that's important for the 30,000 to understand.
Ed O'Malley: Hey, you know, I, I, I need to give credit to a former colleague of mine, Mike Matson, who I mention in the book. Mike is the one that got me thinking about this. He and I worked together on the [00:04:00] staff of Governor Bill Graves a long, long time ago. Mm-hmm. He then, , joined the staff of the Kansas Leadership Center in the early years of, of KLC, and we had this pattern in our relationship where, you know, I would describe some nutty idea or some, some, some kind of grand vision for something we were gonna do in the governor's office or something we were gonna do at the Kansas Leadership Center, and Mike would kinda look at me, and he would say, "Well, like, w- but what kind of process and structure are we gonna need- Mm-hmm
for that idea to come, become a reality?" Mm-hmm. And I just would look at him kind of in a dumbfounded way, , for years. And then I finally began to, like, figure out what he was talking about, that, like, the, the greatest visions don't really matter if you don't think through, like, a logical, smart process to bring it to life, a, a structure to bring it to life.
Baseball Leagues as Structure
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Ed O'Malley: And, you know, we, we give kinda some, silly examples and some, and some not silly examples in the chapter, but, like, [00:05:00] one of the examples what we give is about baseball. I love baseball. You, you know, you get tired of me giving baseball metaphors all the time. But, you know, baseball was, like, sweeping our country in the 1800s.
Mm-hmm. People were loving playing baseball in the latter part of the 1800s. But it took somebody to have, like, an understanding that it might be helpful if we had leagues.
Susan Kang: Right.
Ed O'Malley: And- Right ... and, and, and those leagues would have a season, and the league would be made up of so many teams. Like, that, that idea had to be invented. Like, so baseball had to be invented, but then the idea of the process and structure of leagues had to be invented. Mm-hmm. And then someday somebody had the idea of, "Well, let's combine those leagues, and then we'll have, you know, the World Series as the champions." Like, that is all an example of a process and a structure to support a, a, a grand idea, like, like baseball being a, a national pastime. [00:06:00] So that's maybe a silly example, but I think it's a good one in that we need more people in the 30,000 to know part of your role is to make sure not just that there's bold vision, but that the people working on that vision have a solid process and structure to bring it about
Susan Kang: I think part of the struggle for me around process and structure is that it's invisible. You know, when you think about a vision, and you say it out loud or people have a, you know, vision statement, you know, on their walls or, you know, in their, on their website and those kinds of things, that's out there for people to look at. But how to actually make that, you know, come to life is invisible.
And then ideally, it's in the background or it's working really well and people don't necessarily know about it. So I think that's part of the thing for me to have to understand.
Ed O'Malley: Y- yeah, it's, it's invisible until it's not, you know? Yeah. And, and so- When
Susan Kang: things don't go right, I feel like
Ed O'Malley: at some point, yeah
right.
Network Kansas Case Study
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Ed O'Malley: So a- another example I think we have in the book, but if, if we don't, it's a good one to talk about today with Kenny joining us. [00:07:00] You know, Kenny, of course listeners will remember, used to be in the legislature.
Susan Kang: Right.
Ed O'Malley: When Kenny was chair of the Economic Development Committee, we passed, the state passed the Kansas Economic Growth Act.
Mm-hmm. One component of that act was the creation of a thing we now know as Network Kansas. Mm-hmm. It was actually a pretty small part of that overall legislation. I think we called it a center of entrepreneurship in the legislation, but it's now known as Network Kansas. But in essence, that legislation, the Kansas Economic Growth Act, had a component in it that cast a vision for a role for the state to play in promoting entrepreneurship across Kansas.
Susan Kang: Right.
Ed O'Malley: Right. Okay? It was a vision for the state to play a role in promoting entrepreneurship across Kansas. But it took until a guy named Steve Radley and another guy named Eric Peterson were hired to run Network Kansas- Right for [00:08:00] Network Kansas to figure out, well, what will that actually mean? Like, what would be the process and structure to bring that about?
And they created, they call them E Communities, local community groups. I think there are now 80 or 90 communities that have an E Community. Those communities receive resources that they then get to decide w- where they go to support entrepreneurship in that community. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So a whole process and structure is now very visible.
Susan Kang: Mm-hmm.
Ed O'Malley: You know, you can, you can see it, but it started in the minds of Steve and Eric-
Susan Kang: Right.
Ed O'Malley: Right ... you know, 20 years ago. Right. And they could have made a lot of choices about how to promote entrepreneurship. They settled on a process and structure that to this day is still thriving.
Susan Kang: I absolutely love that.
And, I think those are the only ones that I really wanted you to land, before we bring Kenny on board.
Ed O'Malley: Well, let's do it. Let's get Kenny up here and keep the conversation going.
Kenny Joins the Conversation
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Susan Kang: Kenny, it's so great to have you back for- And it's- ... yet another episode ...
Kenny Wilk: and it's good to be back, Suzy.
Susan Kang: Yay. Okay. All right. So I'm excited to talk [00:09:00] about process and structure, right? And I already told you that I have a hard time with this stuff, but, you know, I'm getting, getting around to learning it and understanding it better. And so because this chapter is about process and structure, I wanna take you a little bit on a journey around your set of experiences around, health, you know, to help answer some of the questions that, I have for you. So Thinking about a bold vision that you have had, okay? , First, tell us a little bit about how you communicated that vision.
Kenny Wilk: Well, uh, probably the best example, and I know Ed mentioned it earlier, is, Kansas Economic Growth Act, and it's certainly the most mature. I won't get into all the specifics of the act. That ended up being a major investment, and there, there's several positive outcomes from that. I had it in my mind, a- and at the time, uh, the, the thought of a process and structure didn't really occur to me. But what did occur to me, I knew, I knew I wanted to move the ball. I knew it was gonna take a lot of collaboration, a [00:10:00] lot of players. And then we identified, or I identified, I was actually on, at the time, a board, KTEC, Kansas Technology Enterprise Corporation.
Mm-hmm,
Susan Kang: mm-hmm.
Kenny Wilk: So I reached out to them, started talking about, and I heard you talk about it. This is hard to see. You can't really see it is. Mm-hmm. And I, and I agree with you. Yeah. It is, it is a challenge. And this is, I, uh, last time I was on, I mentioned that there's, uh, you know, two or three or four really kind of really key concepts in the book.
There's hundreds, but this is another one of those. It's really profound, but you really gotta keep working at it. But it was by reaching out to KTech, that talented staff, kind of painting for them. And I, I've always been one, you know, I heard you all talking a little bit about vision, too. So I always like to kind of ask myself and ask others when you're working on something, if you were king or queen for a day, and you got something major you wanna get done, 10 years from now or five years from now, however long you might, [00:11:00] what would that look like?
Mm. And, and really begin to articulate it. So for the Kansas Nec- Economic Growth Act, it was really about creating new jobs. It was about Kansas being in the bio sector field, not missing it like we did the computer technology back in the '60s and '70s. Really positioning Kansas, and really trying to put, put words and color commentary to that, and then inviting the right stakeholders- Mm-hmm
to the table that could share in that vision, and, and then go to work on making it happen. Yeah,
Susan Kang: so you created this process.
Kenny Wilk: Correct.
Susan Kang: Right.
Kenny Wilk: Y- yeah, KTech ended up, being very helpful in creating the process. And I think you mentioned Nick in the book, too. Nick, and I c- uh, collaborated and j- worked jointly, House Senate member. But we really got them involved. We, we kept pushing on the vision, but they really worked. They, they come in with the process and structure.
Susan Kang: Okay, so some of them are already in existence.
Ed O'Malley: And real- you just mentioned Nick, former senator, Nick Jordan, former state senator- Ah ... Nick Jordan, who- Right ... the two of you helped author, helped- [00:12:00] Mm-hmm
did author and, and pushed through the Kansas Economic Growth Act. It was a great example of process and structure.
Kenny Wilk: Right.
Susan Kang: Yeah. , So it sounds like some of the, some of the structures sort of maybe were already in place or, or, you know, or some that had to be created. Talk a little bit about that.
Kenny Wilk: , there's a lot of structure already in place. Now, you may have to adapt it a bit. You may have to get them- Yeah ... to think a little bit differently about the role. That was the case with KTech. That is not a role that they'd necessarily been defined, but it was one they were quite able.
They actually brought on, they hired a couple consultants. Remember, we're now, we're go- we're going way back now to the early 2000s. And, and bioscience really, what, life sciences was the term then. Right, right, right. You know, we had to, we had to start out even defining biosci- why biosciences versus life.
Well, life sciences was really about the human. Biosciences was about the human, the plant, the animal, uh, the, the whole thing. And, and we started at that level and really kind of boiled it down to the fifth-grade level, tried to get people to understand. And of course, Nick and I would go any and [00:13:00] everywhere talking about it. But, , we found existing structures that were there that bought off on the vision and helped us. So we didn't necessarily have to create the structure. But they, they adapted then processes- Mm ... to help us get it across the finish line.
Ed O'Malley: Well, and Kenny, though, I, I wanna push and play a little bit 'cause I think you did a little bit of both.
I think you did identify some existing structures that could be leveraged, things like, you know, what used to be known as KTech, Kansas Technology Enterprise Corporation. I think you also created some things. the creation of Network Kansas was a part of that. Correct. Yeah. Like, you, you, you recognized that we could be all in favor of propagating entrepreneurship across the state, but we needed some new stuff, some new process, some new structure, a new organization. That legislation created a tax credit. Okay, that's a wonky term, right? But a tax credit is, in essence, a financing mechanism. A very confusing one, but a financing mechanism. So it [00:14:00] created an organization that became known as Network Kansas, and it created a financing mechanism, a tax credit, that to this day still funds that organization in a very creative way. It also created, you know, another entity called the Bioscience Authority, which I know is no longer still present in its, in the form it, it once was. But that was an, an attempt, I think, at saying, "You know, we need that structure also to kind of keep this i- idea moving forward." And, and I think one thing I think is interesting is sometimes you might not get the process and structure exactly right.
Kenny Wilk: That-
Ed O'Malley: But you gotta try.
Kenny Wilk: You gotta try, and you gotta be willing to adapt and change as you move along. So Memories are flooding back. So the, uh, the Network Kansas component, uh, and that was really a pretty massive piece of legislation. It was lengthy. It was complex. Uh,, But we're, we're, we're working on the vision, selling the vision, selling the... Getting stakeholders involved. [00:15:00] And I, I wanna give Nick some credit here 'cause, uh, one day about midway through the process, we said, "Well, you know, we, we believe this is gonna work." Yeah, we believe it's gonna- Yeah,
Susan Kang: yeah. You believe
Kenny Wilk: in the mission. Well, we said, "Okay, well, it's gonna work, then, then we need- Yeah
to have some sort of support for the new entities that we're gonna gener- And that was really the birth of Network Kansas. it was the tail end. It was, "Okay, we're gonna do all these things. It's gonna take a few years, but we know it's gonna work, so we need to plan for it to work and have a support mechanism for the entrepreneurs and put it in the legislation."
So we did.
Ed O'Malley: Yeah.
Inventing Processes for Health
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Ed O'Malley: A- and just, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna try to nail this point home during this podcast, but, like, for the 30,000, it's not enough, to keep using this example, to just believe we need to grow our economy. Like, you have to use your power, your authority to help people imagine, well, what would be the process and structure to do that? Other examples. It's not enough to just [00:16:00] know we should have a robust Food Is Medicine initiative across Kansas. Okay, that's a, that's a hot topic right now. Mm-hmm. Hot topic. Right, right. Hot topic. Right now. Mm-hmm. So much evidence to show that an accountable Food Is Medicine initiative is game-changing for health Nobody disagrees with that. The challenge is in inventing the process and structure to deliver and scale a Food Is Medicine program across the state, and there's incredible work happening right now. I was just on a meeting yesterday with the Sunflower Foundation, and they are right in the middle of so much of this, doing a phenomenal job.
But the work is the messy work of imagining, of creating, , of visioning, not the big idea of Food Is Medicine, but how do we bring it to life- Mm-hmm ... in a process and a structure. So many examples like that around our state.
Kenny Wilk: I'm glad you used the word invent.
Ed O'Malley: Yeah.
Kenny Wilk: Uh, 'cause I, I think as we think about this, and, I wanna keep relating to Susan here, because I... [00:17:00] This, this is a challenging concept, and, it's another one of those concepts you just gotta keep coming back to and really digging into practicing and exercising. But, but creativity, creativity is something I don't think we talk enough about, but that drives imagination. Right. Yeah.
And, and when we think of inventing things, we think of, uh, you know, some s- a chair. Somebody invented the chair or the wheel, whatever it might be. Well, what we're talking about here is in- inventing processes. They're not as easy to see and put your hands on. You're not gonna necessarily patent it. Doesn't mean it isn't just as important, though.
Ed O'Malley: You know, Susan, there's a, there's a part of the book where we, wrote, "For most game-changing efforts..." I know you like this part of the book.
Susan Kang: I do. "
Ed O'Malley: For most game-changing efforts, we need to be able to imagine..." And I'm gonna reread this with the word invent instead of imagine. "For most game-changing efforts, we need to be able to invent [00:18:00] two distinct things." A vision and the process and structure to bring that vision to life. The former, in- inventing a vision, is hard. The latter, creating a process and structure, is harder. And, and I think that's what we're getting at. You need-- It is invention. It is invention. And what I think we need people to understand is on deep, daunting challenges like health, we don't have the infrastructure right now we need to solve all that we need to solve. And so a vision to improve health, well, we need a process and structure to bring that about. And I mean, uh, uh, Susan and I could go to great lengths to describe, like, what are we doing inside the Kansas Health Foundation to create a process and an, and a structure to tackle the metrics that make up America's health rankings.
That could be a, a fun bonus episode sometime- Yep to kinda get [00:19:00] into the- Yeah ... nuance of just our own internal process and structure, and the process and structure with our partners we've created. But that invention is just as important, and a lot harder, as a vision to lead the nation in health, for example.
Yeah.
Susan Kang: And I, I'm just gonna add that, you know, again, , because this is not something that is seen, this is, I think it's harder to imagine and, you know, for, for the invention that had to happen. I see it now having been part of that process, right? And, and I really have come to appreciate how important process and structure is, and I cannot emphasize this enough, that the vision is only as good as the process and structure around that vision to come, to make it come alive.
Rural Health Transformation Spotlight
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Kenny Wilk: You know, we've got a giant, uh, set of experiments, , going on, um, not only in Kansas, but the other 49 states. And, uh, Ed and Susan, I wanna invite you, I think probably at some point this is certainly gonna be worthy of digging much deeper into, but the Rural Health Transformation program- Yeah
the [00:20:00] RHTP, Rural Health Transformation Program, is critical. Mm-hmm. And it's $50 billion dollars, unprecedented amount of money, that is targeted to rural health. Rural health, not urban, rural. And there's some incredible experimentation and programs, in the works right now, and I, I'm, I'm biased, but I think Kansas is leading the way there, Ed, and I think as time continues to pass, , we will distinguish ourselves.
Now, I'll also say, I, I'm not familiar with all the programs, but I'm familiar with a good number of them. I'm familiar with a lot of the good people that are really working, and they're working on these things right now. Yeah. They're, they're creating visions- Yeah that, that are transformative, and those are hard.
Ed O'Malley: Yeah.
Kenny Wilk: Yeah. Those are hard. You know, I, I think of the Anchor Hospital a- and kind of one of, one of the driving visions of the Anchor Hospital concept program is that every Kansan, no matter [00:21:00] where you live, should have some yet-to-be-defined level of primary care and specialty care no more than 60 or 90 minutes from where you live Now that, that's, that's pretty simple, and that sounds pretty simple, but that, that's a major lift.
Mm-hmm. Nobody argues with that vision, but what's the structure and the process- to make that happen? And, and that's what they're wrestling with. And there's some things, there's some structure coming together now. There's, there's been 10 anchor hospitals defined by KDHE. Mm. There's some great leadership that...
And it's really fun to watch that group work. Now, that's just one example. There are other examples with the rural health, but that, that's something I think we all wanna pay attention to. For the 30,000, um, that we need to get mobilized across the state, there's a lot of initiatives happening everywhere, and I invite us all to find some areas where we can all contribute there.
Susan Kang: I wanna hark back to our last episode around collaboration, and that was a really, really great discussion, I'm [00:22:00] curious to know, , if in the process of this process and structure uh, discussion, you know, the, the, and the experiences that you've had in that context, like did collaboration come into play at all, and did that change anything
Kenny Wilk: In my opinion- Yeah ... to effectively, make the progress on the daunting challenges that we have, and when we accept that we can't do it on our own- Mm-hmm ... and we accept the fact- Yeah ... that, that we're going to need lots of stakeholders, have to exercise all those things we talked about with collaboration in order to get the process and structure i- in place.
I, you know, sometimes, and Ed, I know you've experienced this, pe- people that are invited to the table will think the authority figure, they think they have all the answers to the process and structure when they get there. A- and that's just not the case. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. But you, you, you need to be prepared when you come to the table to participate in that [00:23:00] hard work. It's, it's very hard. I don't think we can understate that. It's not easy work.
Ed O'Malley: Yeah. One thing that's going through my mind in this conversation, and again, I think it's the wonkiest chapter, , I think the risk is this could be a very wonky conversation, you know, What we're getting at is we're talking about the how, Susan, you set that up, so somebody knows what they wanna do- Mm-hmm what their organization wants to do. We're talking about how to do it, and maybe one thing we're saying is to not take the how for granted. Yeah. Or to not just default to a how that is the way you think something is supposed to be implemented or created.
Susan Kang: Or the way it's been implemented-
Ed O'Malley: Or the way it's been implemented ... before. And especially on deep, daunting challenges A role for those in authority is to create the space for people to explore of all the ways we could bring this vision to fruition- [00:24:00] how should we? How does our existing process and structure help us bring this vision to fruition? How does it constrain us to bringing this vision to fruition? Like, creating the space for those conversations. What might need to be created to help us have a better answer for how we bring this vision to, fruition? But I think that, that's what we're ... Like, we're getting at here, it's about the how, the process and structure about the how, and we're asking the 30,000 to spend a heck of a lot more time there than they might normally.
Adaptive How and Youth Sports
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Susan Kang: So we're talking about the how around the process and structure, but my question now is, is the how always set or could it be iterative?
Kenny Wilk: I absolutely believe in almost every s- situation, it, it, it's adaptive. I'll, I'd... Instead of iterative, I'll say adaptive. Mm-hmm. The, the how's adaptive because you're taking on an adaptive [00:25:00] challenge, uh, by its very nature. I can't think of one time we come together and we nailed it right out of the chute. You, you gotta be willing to adapt, learn as you go- Mm-hmm and make the changes. That's where having your vision, uh, I think is really important a- and then being able to somehow kinda measure that, but always being willing,
You know, you don't wanna give on your principles and, and, and, and quit when it gets hard, but you do have to be willing, to make changes that are adaptive in nature.
Ed O'Malley: I agree. The, I think the how is adaptive. The process and structure has to be able to evolve. I wanna give one more maybe simple example, and then I wanna put an issue on the table that I think needs more process and structure in, in Kansas, and I'd love for us to work that- Hmm
for just a minute. But another little silly example is I did a lot of coaching of youth sports, and you can have a passion for youth sports. You can have a vision that [00:26:00] kids should have a great experience in youth sports But if you really want kids to have a great experience in youth sports, like as a coach- Mm-hmm you need to invent some process and structure for what are you gonna do with those kids at that practice. Right. Right? Like, just getting kids together- Yeah ... at practice and having no process and structure is kind of a nightmare scenario, right? And my wife would tell you that I geeked out quite a bit on developing process and structure for our youth sports teams that we, that, that I coached. But it, but it made all the difference, right?
Kenny Wilk: But, and I would guess those, those youth responded well to that. Well- Because it was a structure.
Ed O'Malley: Yes.
Kenny Wilk: A- a- and then week one, m- maybe not so good, but, I bet you made some changes maybe to week two.
Ed O'Malley: Oh, I'll show you my old coaching notebooks, Kenny. Oh, gosh, I still have them. But yes, and- That's a great
Kenny Wilk: example
Ed O'Malley: though, yeah ... and it is, it's kind of a fun example, it's maybe a silly example, but I, I'm quite confident there were teams that we ended up beating, that, that, that kids ended up [00:27:00] beating who were a lot more talented. But you know what? We had a good process and structure, and, and so, like, the kids, they, they knew what they were doing. They were able to be successful and have a lot of fun doing so. That's the silly example.
Regional Collaboration Challenge
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Ed O'Malley: Here's the issue, I think, in Kansas that I've been hearing about for 30 years that I've been involved in Kansas civic life. I have heard for 30 years that we need more regional collaboration.
Susan Kang: Mm-hmm.
Ed O'Malley: That the way things are evolving, that we- regions have to work together better. They have to create more regional efficiencies, more regional strategies. You know, the 105 counties is a perfect example, right? We have 105 counties. The reason we have 105 counties is because when the counties were mapped out, they wanted you to be within a day's horse ride of your county seat, okay? That was why we have 105 counties. , But everybody has been preaching, not everybody, regional collaboration for [00:28:00] 30 years.
Kenny Wilk: Encouraging.
Ed O'Malley: Encouraging. Oh, nice.
Going back to, nice, our last episode- been encouraging- what would be the process and structure that would be needed to actually get to regional collaboration being a thing? Like, what would be- Whew process and structure that could be injected into the civic fabric of Kansas that would result in regional collaboration?
'Cause a vision for regional collaboration isn't sufficient. What's the process and structure, do you think?
Kenny Wilk: that is a great question, and, uh, and I've been noodling on, on some of that. And, uh, I actually, uh, me and a state senator 30-plus years ago did some modeling and tried to come up with a, a, a set of maps for Kansas, and let's just say that did not work out very well for us, and rolled that out with, without collaborating, without actually- Hmm
uh, a shared vision, and, and got slaughtered. , so here's some things I think [00:29:00] That we have to unlearn. May- maybe I'd start there.- We need to eliminate the city boundaries. We need to eliminate the county line boundaries. I think we gotta think about if you're gonna have true regional, whatever, whatever you might wanna call it, then the governance structure. So, you know, I was thinking about, so you used a, the, your, your sports analogy. Uh, at a very high level, m- macro level, a process and structure examples are democracy.
Ed O'Malley: Of course.
Kenny Wilk: Right? Right. Now, it's far from perfect.
Susan Kang: Mm-hmm.
Kenny Wilk: Uh, but, and we're working every day to make it more perfect. That's what our declaration said. We're working on it. All the time. Yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying. Mm-hmm. But, but you know, we got, we, we got, you know, federal, state, local, school boards. But I, you know, when we get down, if we're gonna talk about regional ideas, then we gotta start having some hard conversation about where, where are those boundaries, [00:30:00] what's real and what's not. and that means you probably, you gotta think about the resources a- and maybe change some lines, change the way that people are elected. I mean, those are big, bold idea- and people will get really scared of them, but, I think you're really hitting on something profound here, in that if we're gonna truly have regionalism, then the process and structure's gonna have to change.
Ed O'Malley: yeah, so if you wanted, if you, if you had a vision for more regional collaboration, you, you've gotta then figure out what's the process and structure, and then you have to start thinking about, well, politically, what's possible.
What's possible. Like, like frankly, like eliminating county lines is probably gonna be a hard sell. Mm-hmm. Right?
Kenny Wilk: Right.
Ed O'Malley: But maybe, I'm just making this up, spur of the moment, just making this up. A, A, version of process and structure might be we're not gonna eliminate any county lines or any city lines, but we are going to, the state is going to establish, , regional seats, right?
So like you have a [00:31:00] county seat, you have a regional seat. We're gonna now provide some resources to a regional seat that has a new regionally elected board. This could be the dumbest idea ever. I hope listeners know this is not a real proposal. But to me, it's an example of If you want to have a vision, you've got to match it with inventing a process and structure.
Mm-hmm. Y- y-
World Cup and Bi-State Examples
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Kenny Wilk: yeah ... of process and structure You know, so we got another example living here in Kansas, The World Cup just wrapped up. Yeah. Yep. And, um, I, I know many of our listeners maybe didn't have the experience to, to visit, but, , we, we were, University of Kansas Health System, intimately involved with that, and oh my, was there a lot of process and structure invention there. Which started years ago. Yeah. Years ago. And in fact, I think you're gonna continue, uh, to hear more and more about this. Kan- Kansas City, the metropolitan area- Which that state line, man, that is a hard line. Ed, you know. Yep. You grew up there. That's a hard line. But I, I have to [00:32:00] say, for The World Cup, people really set that aside.
Ed O'Malley: Hm.
Kenny Wilk: And the world come here, and the world had a great time. Now, that got driven down into healthcare, to our security- Right ... the police, the fire. The collaboration that we had across the entire metropolitan area was just absolutely incredible.
Ed O'Malley: Dane, that makes me think of another example of, of process and structure.
For years, for decades, there was a vision for more collaboration across the Kansas City Metro, and it took somebody inventing the idea of what was called the bi-state tax. W- it was a sales tax- Union Station ... that helped re- that, not helped, that was the reason- That was, yeah ... Union Station was renovated, which is a crown jewel in the Kansas City Metro, Union Station. B- so the process and structure was a sales tax on a particular ballot. The vision was collaboration [00:33:00] to, to return Union Station to its glory. , But you don't get the result without the hard work of thinking about the, the process and structure.
Susan Kang: So I love this discussion in so many ways, , , and you know, quick answer to your question about regionalization, it makes me think of, like, you have to first define the regions and have everyone be on the same page about what counties are in what region.
I mean-
Ed O'Malley: That's an example of process and structure.
Susan Kang: That's, exactly. That, that ex- And it's great to- Yeah, so there are
Ed O'Malley: all kinds of examples of, like, d- on the regional thing. You could create literally a new, a new unit of, of government, of quasi government, right? You could just get agreement on what we call the regions, right?
Okay. Which is, which is hard to do, by the way, you know?
Key Takeaways and Wrap-Up
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Susan Kang: Well, you know, so here's the deal now. , We're toward the end of our episode. I know we could talk about, we could do, like, a whole nother episode on this, and I think it'd be really interesting and ideating around all of these issues, but, um, I'm gonna have us get to, you know, our takeaways now.
So I'm gonna start with my takeaway, which is that [00:34:00] a vision is only as good as the process and structure that's put around to make the vision come to life. And for the members of the 30,000 who are listening, I really encourage you to think about a time when your vision didn't come true or come through because you gave short shrift to the process and structure aspect.
Kenny Wilk: Could- couldn't agree more, Susan, and, uh, I wouldn't wanna disappoint Ed or Susan here or, or listeners since, uh, , I think this is my third or fourth time, and I've really enjoyed participating in it.
But as you know, I like to put the simple definition to the words that we're talking about, which I think fits perfectly. Uh, so when we talk about process and structure, so process, a series of steps or actions that lead to a result Structure, the way the parts are arranged or organized.
Susan Kang: I love it.
Kenny Wilk: So I, I, I, again, just trying to help people think about process and structure. I think we've [00:35:00] had a really productive conversation here, but y- we all gotta keep working on it. Mm-hmm. And, and the more we can visualize it and understand it in our minds, the easier it becomes to practice and exercise it.
Ed O'Malley: I agree completely. I think my big takeaway from this conversation, which, you know, this is, again, a complicated, wonky subject.
But my big takeaway is if the 30,000 will just use their position to get people talking more about the how, about how are we going to organize things, how are we going to position things, what are, how are we gonna, order the steps that need to be done? If they just use their power, their influence, their authority, their position to do what Mike Matson did to me so many times early in my career, what, what do you mean by that, Ed?
Like, how are you gonna do that? What's the process and structure to bring that to life? If they center the [00:36:00] conversation, we'll get better process and structure. Kenny, it's been great having you with us for this episode. Thank you for joining us several times throughout this podcast series. Thank you. I think this is our final time with you-
Kenny Wilk: I think it is, too, and I- ...
Ed O'Malley: in the series ... and I've,
Kenny Wilk: I've enjoyed it, and thank you for, uh, allowing me to participate.
Ed O'Malley: Well, you betcha. I'm, I'm sure we'll find other ways to be co-conspirators and collaborators in the future. To our listeners, thank you for joining us for this episode. Next time we'll be talking about the next chapter in the book, the next mindset, which is the need to value policy over politics.
Take care.
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