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The Pool Envy Podcast is where real, licensed pool professionals speak up. In an industry overflowing with DIY chatter and surface-level advice, we dive deep into code, compliance, and craftsmanship that set licensed contractors apart. Our goal is to educate and elevate the industry — teaching safety, sharing knowledge, and helping those who build and service pools do it the right way.
From the job site to the code book, this is a Pool Envy Podcast where licensed pool professionals speak up. Code, compliance, craftsmanship, hosted by Jason Davies. License across Wisconsin, Florida, and Texas. Your deep end starts now.
Jason Davies:Welcome back to the Pool Envy Podcast. Today, I'd like to start in a field full of horses. You probably heard that expression once before. When you hear hoof beats, think horses, not zebras. The lesson is simple.
Jason Davies:Start with the most likely explanation. Follow the evidence. Don't manufacture complexity just because complexity sounds impressive. That's generally good advice. Because the Internet has changed something.
Jason Davies:Today, everybody wants to find the zebra. Every crack is structural. Every stain is catastrophic. Looking at the crack, it must be ASR. Every builder's dishonest.
Jason Davies:Every pool is failing. And the person with the loudest opinion is often treated as the expert. I don't begin by looking for horses. I don't begin by looking for zebras. I look for evidence because evidence has a funny way of ruining opinions.
Jason Davies:And sometimes, the first question we ask sends us looking an entirely wrong direction. Most of us are taught trust the process. That's probably good advice too. Processes exist because somebody before us made mistakes. Standards exist because somebody before us who made mistakes learned expensive lessons.
Jason Davies:Experience matters. But here's the part I think sometimes gets missed. Learning the process isn't the say all end all of thinking. It's the beginning of it. Every improvement, every advancement, every new standard started because somebody asked, why do we do it this way?
Jason Davies:Not because they rejected the process, because they wanted to understand the reasoning behind it. I've said before that part of my job is helping people realize that a sheet of paper has a third layer. Most people see the front, Some remember there's a back. My work begins when someone recognizes that there may be another layer they haven't considered. Swimming pools are no different.
Jason Davies:Most people see the tile. I wonder what the heck is holding it there. Many people see pool plaster, and I wonder who did the job and what happened. Most people see a crack. I wonder what sequence of decisions created that.
Jason Davies:There's a third layer. It's the difference between seeing the finished product and understanding the system behind it. And sometimes that third layer is where the real story begins. A few days ago, I was standing in the deep end of an empty swimming pool, grinder in my hands, p 100 respirator on because safety first. HEPA vacuum attached, safety glasses in place, face shields in place as well.
Jason Davies:Even with all the dust under control, every few seconds, another chunk of material broke loose and hit my face mask. Not powder, chunks. So of course, I stopped, not because I was frustrated, because something didn't make sense. I remember thinking, I wonder if this was the intended outcome ten years ago when the last guy put it together. Not who built this and not who can I blame?
Jason Davies:It was just what question wasn't asked because somebody built the pool, somebody worked hard, somebody probably drove home proud of what Ben accomplished. Yet here it was ten years later after this pool was built, standing in the same pool and removing material that should have never needed to be removed in the first place. That wasn't just a repair, it was evidence. Evidence that somewhere long before I arrived, a decision had been made or perhaps a question had never been asked. That's when something occurred to me.
Jason Davies:Every construction project eventually becomes somebody else's starting point. Maybe another contractor, maybe the homeowner, maybe an inspector, maybe an attorney, maybe someone like me standing there years later trying to reconcile what somebody else was thinking. Anybody can build a pool. Spend five minutes on Facebook, and you will find plenty of people willing to tell you how. In fact, spend five minutes on Instagram and someone will show up in your newsfeed offering to tell you how.
Jason Davies:Dig a hole, install some plumbing, place the concrete, set some tile, apply the finish, just add water. But completing that sequence is not the same as delivering a swimming pool that remains watertight, serviceable, and functional years after the final check clears the bank. Not everybody delivers a leak free product. Not everybody delivers a pool that continues to hold water, and not everybody delivers a pool that avoids becoming evidence in a lawsuit. The difference usually isn't whether somebody knew which step came next.
Jason Davies:It's whether they understood why that step came next. Earlier this week, I conducted safety and system evaluations at two different swimming pools. Different homeowners, different builders, totally different circumstances. At one property, tiles were falling off the pool wall. That's the visual problem.
Jason Davies:That's what the homeowner could see. But why are the tiles coming off is only the first question. The next questions are, what was behind them? How was the substrate prepared? What materials were used?
Jason Davies:What coverage was achieved? What conditions existed when those materials were installed? What installation requirements applied? Was the failure limited to a few tiles or was it evidence of a broader system problem? The detached tile wasn't the entire story.
Jason Davies:It was the invitation to look for the third layer. At another property, concerns had been raised about part of the pool's construction. The homeowner had been reassured. We'll use our best guy. That sounds comforting.
Jason Davies:It sounds like the problem has been handled. But our best guy isn't a method. It isn't a specification. It isn't documentation, and it doesn't explain how the work will actually be performed. When I examined the installation, I found tiles with roughly three quarters of their surface bearing on the concrete.
Jason Davies:Not a 100%, not 95, three quarters or about 75%. The remaining portion was spanning open air. In plain language, part of each tile was supported. The rest was effectively floating in the air. Maybe the person installing it really was their best guy.
Jason Davies:That's not my point. The point is that skill cannot compensate for detail that leaves part of the installation unsupported. A reassuring phrase doesn't change the physical condition, and confidence doesn't create bearing where bearing doesn't exist. This is why I don't stop at who is doing the work. I want to know how is the work going to be done?
Jason Davies:What will support it? What conditions exist before it's installed? What changes if the site doesn't match the original plan? Those two evaluations looked different. One involved tile already coming off.
Jason Davies:The other involved tile partially supported and partially spanning a void, but both led to the same place. Walk me through the thinking that brought us here. Because construction isn't simply a series of completed steps. It's a series of decisions. One of the things I've learned over the years is this.
Jason Davies:The first question is probably the wrong one. Not because it's a bad question, because it's usually the easiest one. Spend a week in almost any swimming pool Facebook group, thousands of members, hundreds of conversations. Most of the questions sound something like this. What do you think of this tile?
Jason Davies:Blue plaster or gray? What coping should I choose? Salt or chlorine? Those aren't bad questions. Appearance matters.
Jason Davies:You'll look at that pool every day. But here's what's fascinating to me. We'll spend weeks selecting the perfect tile. We'll compare every shade of blue imaginable. We'll ask complete and total strangers which finish they prefer, and then we'll write one of the largest checks of our lives without asking, what's gonna keep that tile attached?
Jason Davies:Not what color mortar, but why that mortar? Why that product? Why this installation method? What is the condition of the surface receiving it? What could change the plan?
Jason Davies:Walk me through your thinking because that's what you're actually paying for. You're hiring somebody because you don't wanna build a pool yourself. That is totally, completely, obviously reasonable. You're not expected to understand every industry standard. You're also not expected to memorize every manufacturer's installation instructions.
Jason Davies:You're not expected to know whether the substrate is ready to receive the next material. That's why you hired a professional. But here's the part that gets overlooked. You hired a builder because you didn't wanna become one. You hired a professional because you expect professional judgment.
Jason Davies:Anybody on earth can tell you, tile's next, plaster's next, we'll fill it next week. That's a sequence. A professional should be able to explain why tile is next. Why today instead of tomorrow? What was evaluated before the work began?
Jason Davies:What conditions matter? What they're trying to prevent? And what could happen if those conditions aren't met. They don't need to bury you in technical language. They don't need to turn the conversation into a chemistry lesson, but they should be able to explain their reasoning because that's what you're paying for, not just labor, judgment.
Jason Davies:Judgment isn't demonstrated by confidence. It's demonstrated by reasoning. There are several kinds of answers that may sound reassuring without actually answering the question. One is the trust me answer. I've been building pools for twenty five years.
Jason Davies:We've always done it this way. We've never had a problem. Experience matters, but the number of years somebody has performed a task doesn't explain why the task is appropriate in your unique situation and pool. Twenty five years of experience may represent twenty five years of continued learning. It can also represent the same years of experience repeated 25 times.
Jason Davies:You can't tell me which one you're hearing until the person explains their reasoning. A thoughtful question shouldn't automatically be treated as a personal attack. If asking why immediately becomes a debate about trust, you still haven't received an explanation. Another answer is the jargon screen. You ask a straightforward question and receive a wall of acronyms, product names, and technical phrases.
Jason Davies:Technical language has a legitimate purpose. Precision 100% matters. But genuine understanding includes the ability to translate technical information into language the client can understand rather than something obscure and esoteric. If you ask a follow-up question and you hear the same jargon repeated louder, faster, or with a greater irritation, you may be hearing memorization rather than explanation. A knowledgeable professional should be able to say, here is the technical requirement.
Jason Davies:Here is what it means on your project, and here is the problem it is intended to prevent. That's explanation. Then there's the sequence shuffle. You ask, why are you plastering then? And the answer is because the tile will be finished.
Jason Davies:You ask, why is the tile happening now? And the answer is because that's what comes next. That isn't reasoning. That's reading the calendar out loud. A meaningful explanation might involve the condition of the substrate, required curing periods, temperature, moisture, weather, product limitations, and coordination with another system.
Jason Davies:The specific answer will depend upon the project. That's the point. The schedule should reflect the work. The work shouldn't be forced to comply with a marketing promise simply because somebody advertised a pool getting finished in thirty days. Professionals should be able to explain why, not simply promise when.
Jason Davies:Another common answer transfers all responsibility to the product. We use the best mortar. We use the premium finish. This system never fails. Good products matter.
Jason Davies:But products don't select themselves. They don't prepare the substrate. They don't measure the water. They don't control the weather. They don't mix themselves, and they don't install themselves.
Jason Davies:A premium product installed incorrectly is still installed incorrectly. The name printed on the bag doesn't eliminate the human decisions that determine whether the system performs. A thoughtful professional should be able to explain not only what product was selected, but why it fits the condition and how its installation requirements will be followed. That's where the third layer lives. Not in the brand name, in the judgment behind its use.
Jason Davies:There is one follow-up question that can reveal a great deal without turning the conversation into an interrogation. What site or environmental condition could cause you to change that plan? That isn't a trap. It's an invitation to demonstrate judgment. Maybe the answer involves groundwater, perhaps unexpected soil conditions, maybe temperature, possibly rain, maybe the concrete isn't ready, maybe the existing substrate behaves differently than anticipated, maybe demolition reveals something that couldn't have been seen beforehand.
Jason Davies:A thoughtful professional recognizes that a written sequence is only the starting point. The site still gets a vote. The weather still gets a vote. The materials get a vote. And sometimes the wildfire smoke will just come on in because it wants to as well.
Jason Davies:And the conditions uncovered during construction may require the plan to change. Consistency is valuable, but judgment means knowing when consistency no longer serves the project. The professional who says nothing could ever change our plan may be describing a routine. The professional who can identify the variables and explain how they would respond is demonstrating judgment. People don't usually end up with disappointing pools because they wanted one.
Jason Davies:Most simply entered unfamiliar territory. One day, I'd love a swimming pool. A few days later, here's the deposit. Between those two moments, there should have been a pause. Not to become a contractor, not to become an engineer, just long enough to ask one more question.
Jason Davies:What tile do you recommend? Maybe the first question. What will keep it attached? Is the next one. How soon can you start?
Jason Davies:Maybe the first question. What controls your schedule? Is the next one. Who will perform the work? Maybe the first question.
Jason Davies:How will the work be performed? Is the next one. We'll send our best guy. May sound reassuring, but the next question is still, walk me through his plan. People sometimes tell me, Jason, you make people uncomfortable, and that's probably right.
Jason Davies:Not because discomfort is the goal. The goal is curiosity. Curiosity asks why, compared with what, according to which requirement, according to which standard, what happens next, what happens if conditions change. Those questions can make people uncomfortable. They can also make projects better.
Jason Davies:Pool Envy isn't trying to teach homeowners how to build swimming pools. Pool Envy exists to help homeowners recognize when they're speaking with someone who understands the third layer, not just the sequence. The reasoning behind the sequence, not just the products. The thinking behind the products, not just the person assigned to perform the work. The plan that the person is expected to execute.
Jason Davies:Because the difference between an average project and an exceptional one usually isn't found in the next step, it's found in the thinking behind it. So the next time you meet with a builder, don't just exchange checks. Exchange understanding. Ask them to walk you through their thinking, not because you distrust them, because confidence and judgment are not the same thing. Confidence says, we'll use our best guy.
Jason Davies:Judgment explains what that person will do, why it matters, what conditions must exist, and what could require the plan to change. Anybody can memorize a sequence. A professional should understand the sequence. Anybody can name a premium product. A professional though should understand how it must be used.
Jason Davies:Anybody can promise a completion date. A professional should understand what has to happen before the pool is truly ready, and anybody can build something that looks like a swimming pool on the day it's filled. Not everybody can deliver one that remains watertight, serviceable, and performs as intended years later. That's why you didn't hire only labor. You hired judgment.
Jason Davies:Because ten years from now, I'd rather remember the color of your tile than spend another day standing in your empty pool. Grinder in my hands, p 100 respirator on, HEPA vacuum attached, wondering which question nobody asked. I'm Jason Davies, and this is the Pool Envy Podcast, standards, not suggestions.
Spyder:This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not legal advice, and it is not site specific engineering, code, or safety determination. All field conditions should be evaluated in context. Thanks for listening to the Pool Envy Podcast where licensed pool professionals speak up. Hosted by Jason Davies, licensed across Wisconsin, Florida, and Texas.
Spyder:For more insights, subscribe and join us next time.