Lessons From the Special Needs Community, with Paul Hathcoat
00:00
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Restorative Man podcast. My name is Jesse French, excited to be with you guys again and excited to be again joined by my colleague and good friend, Mr. Legendary Beard himself, Cody Burrough. Good to be here, Jesse. Good to be with you. You too, man. Yeah. I'm particularly excited today because we get to have my buddy Paul Hathcote back on the podcast. friend too.
00:28
He's my friend too. know he's okay. For everybody who doesn't know, if you haven't been listening to the podcast much, go back and find the episode where we first interviewed Paul. He talks about being a bounty hunter in a previous life. And that was a fascinating conversation. Paul is an awesome guy. Good friend of mine. We've shared some life together and it's been really helpful and good for me. He is a pastor at the church that I go to. so.
00:55
Paul, it's been really fun to get to know you and hang out with you. Welcome back to the podcast. Hey guys. Thanks for having me back. Glad to have you. Thanks for coming back after we gave all the recycled jokes about you being a bounty hunter and everything like that. Thanks for your- Yeah, that's right. Yeah. brought my bulletproof vest to this episode so that I could just pay homage to our last one.
01:22
To be clear, I'm both of your friends, fellas. So thank you. Did you hear that, Cody? Did you hear that? I'm just glad he's my friend. Yeah, I love Cody. This is fun that I get to do it, but even more fun than I get to do with him. So I'm excited. Sweet. Paul, I know we talked about having a conversation today around part of your job that you have had over the last several years, particularly at the church that you serve at now in the special needs community.
01:50
and I know that that is very near and dear to your heart. Would you like to kind of introduce yourself, reintroduce yourself to everybody and kind of give us a little bit of backstory on that part of your life? Sure, sure. Well, my name is Paul Hathcote. I'm currently the adult ministries and faith development pastor at White River Christian Church here in Noblesville, Indiana. I've been here for seven years now and my first five years here at White River, I was the special needs pastor, which
02:16
To be honest, not many people in the country get to say, I'm a full-time provide for my family, work at a church as a special needs pastor. But yeah, our church and this community, this area in general just gets it when it comes to supporting individuals and their families with disabilities. And so I spent my first five years here doing that. That's awesome. So the question that would be on my mind and I would assume is on everybody else's mind is how on earth did you get from bounty hunter?
02:45
to special needs pastor. Isn't that what everyone does? That's like the natural path. I'm not sure there's two more different positions, but maybe if we tried, we could come up with them, but they feel like the total opposite ends of the spectrum. Yes. estimate to who you are. Let's just say that it's got some serious range. Paul Halfcoat to be able to step into book worlds. That's right. You know, I've never thought of it like that, but that, fits me well. I like that. Thank you, Jesse. Yeah. So how did you make that jump?
03:14
Well, if anybody out there heard any of the last episode where I talked about my career in bail bonds and in bounty hunting, the Lord really developed my faith and met me in the trenches of that career as a bounty hunter. So I was also attending church and I was doing things on my own. But yeah, I really began to care for people and to see that people live differently and their experiences and backgrounds are so
03:42
different and diverse from my own and that it's hard for everyone, everyone, no matter what you're facing or what's going on in your life currently. Like we can all point towards things that are just difficult and the ways that the world is trying to, you know, beat us down. But God met me in that profession and I started caring about the people that I was tracking down and that I had in the backseat and my heart continued to soften. And the way that kind of transitioned is
04:12
I mean, the short story is that I started hearing the Lord calling me into ministry, just kept asking me for more and more of my heart, more and more of my efforts. And when I wasn't engaged specifically in something, I was thinking about Him and the words I had read and how I can help the people I'm around. And I talked about in that first episode about the hard heart that I had and found myself with as a young adult. But
04:41
There was a softness. There was a little soft part of that heart that I had. And a lot of it came from one of my good friends in school. So I had a friend named Ryan and we liked the same stuff. We liked girls, we liked baseball and we liked video games. So we spent a lot of time together as we were kind of growing up. And then when we hit middle school and high school,
05:06
things changed for Ryan and they changed because he was battling a few different disabilities and he was in a motorized wheelchair and had very limited mobility and just looking at him you could tell that there was a lot that was going on there. But he was just Ryan to me. Like I had been around him enough and just loved him enough that he was just Ryan but
05:29
for the other people around us when we hit that middle school, high school age and we start pointing at everyone else because we're so worried about ourselves inside. Like people started treating him really differently. And I mean, he had friends and he wasn't tortured by any means, but things changed and they changed for him. And they changed for me as Ryan's friend. And I felt like I needed to be there more for him. And there were spaces he wasn't invited in and
05:58
There were rooms that he wasn't welcomed in and there were the comments and the snickers and the intentionally awkward questions. And I was around for a lot of that because I even was in a lot of the same classes as him because I helped him. helped him with his pencils and his books. And we even had a few computers back in the 1990s, you know, and I helped him with those things and things just changed for him. The things that made him different from the majority of us.
06:28
were highlighted and most of the time not in a good way. And I really started noticing and that really started to soften my heart. It's softened my heart, not just to Ryan, but to all people around me that were different in some way. already, I mean, even as a middle school high schooler, hear, Hey, there was a familiarity and a proximity to that and of deep value. If your friend Ryan, who had some special needs that for you as a young man, that formation probably started then.
06:56
Yeah, it definitely did. uh, man, I could see some of the isolation that that created and he was a smart, funny, talented guy, but I saw what a lot of people saw was just the exterior. And, uh, I saw how that hurt Ryan and, I know how it made me feel just being around him when he would receive that. And although this is nothing compared to what he or a lot of other people in our world are dealing with.
07:25
In that same timeframe, I also developed this severe stutter and speech impediment. got so bad in my senior year and then my freshman year of college that I was avoiding all conversations with people just because it was embarrassing and hard. I just would rather not say anything than to dive in and have to struggle through. was nearly every word was a struggle, a fight for it to come out. I even avoided conversations.
07:54
with my family because it was so hard to do. Again, people are living with much more than that in our world. But I experienced isolation. I experienced not being able to just communicate with people around me and what that did and how that shaped me inside and how my own voice, both figuratively and literally, started to fade in that time period.
08:20
So my heart was softened in my experience with rying and seeing how those years played out. And then my heart softened again when I was experiencing some of that myself and realized what it was doing to me. So then, yeah, keep track on the story. So at some point your career as a bounty hunter concludes and you talk about just this invitation from the Lord for more and more of your heart. How did that eventually then lead into the position of
08:49
special needs pastor. Yeah. Well, when I was a bounty hunter, I, uh, started a relationship with the Lord and it continued to grow and grow. And eventually I heard him call me into ministry. could feel that he had built me and the message I got was just, I've built you for more than this. And it took me a little bit to kind of unravel that in myself. And I eventually committed my life to serve in him. And, uh, I went to school to get my masters in Christian ministry and
09:19
was just trying to do everything I thought I should in order to just honor what I felt He had called me into. And I prayed every day. It took me three and a half years to get my Master's and I was praying every day like, Lord, show me what You want me to do with this, right? Like, I was already raising four boys. I had a job, a small business. I was a husband. And then I was taking time away to read and write and study. And I was like,
09:43
show me what you want me to do with this. Like I will go to the ends of the earth, but will you let me in on exactly what I'm gonna do with this degree and how I'm gonna serve you?" And he was silent for that entire time. So I was getting skeptical, but graduation day finally came. I think it was on a Thursday or a Friday. And I'm telling God like, hey, this is the last day. Like I need to know, like my wife is saying, we just spent all this money and time on this education and you're not sure what you're gonna do.
10:12
He hasn't revealed anything. And so I'm telling God, like, now's the day. Like, I'm picking up my diploma in a few hours. Why don't you let me in on like what you have next? So that day came and went. And the next day, the Saturday, I went to a wedding of a friend of mine and I got a tap on the shoulder. And it was a guy I used to go to church with. And he was like, Paul, I haven't seen you forever. Like, I've been trying to get ahold of you. I think I might have a job that you would be good for. And I was like, okay, well, I haven't seen you in forever.
10:41
Why don't we meet up and we can catch up and then I'll hear what you have to say. So he invited me to his office that next week and you know, instead of showing up just to catch up with my friend Ben, I walked into an interview to be the director of this camp for adults with disabilities through the Lutheran church. And within a week I was the new director for this Christian camp for adults with disabilities in Anderson, Indiana.
11:11
And so God honored, I believe, my faithfulness in continuing, even though I didn't see the end of the tunnel. And he brought me, my first ministry and it was disability ministry. And as soon as that door opened, I was able to see the ways that he had grown me and loved me and brought me through certain experiences in my life to be somewhat prepared for that first ministry.
11:39
And I spent the next 10 years in ministry for people with disabilities. That's amazing. It's so fun to hear how that that tracks. have so many questions around some of the brass tacks of what that looks like in programatics, but I want to pause on that. And I just want to jump in like kind of the categories that are coming to mind for me as you're talking about your work there with this wonderful group of people is I'd love for you to unpack the difference between pity and dignity.
12:08
And dignity is a word that we talked about a little bit in our conversation last time. It's one that I think over and over in scriptures we see Jesus offering far more than pity, but actually dignity to people. And so I would love to just hear some of your thoughts, because I feel like both of those categories feel like they could be at play as we think about interactions with folks with special needs. so, yeah, take us into some of your thinking around that. Yeah. So, you know, spending a decade in disability ministry.
12:36
and the thousands of individuals that I've got to meet and the hundreds of homes I've set in living rooms with families who are caring for loved ones with disabilities and that being their life. First and foremost, I am a better person by being around those people. And if I say nothing more, if I say nothing more about what scripture says, what the Lord says, how my life has changed and
13:01
the things I've got to be a part of, it is that I am a better man by being around my friends with disabilities. And that's all the evidence I need. We can stop there and be done. There's so much more, but that's definitely where it starts. So can I interrupt you for just a second? I love that you went there and without being formulaic, what pieces of you are better because of that? What parts of your heart Paul have been grown by this community of people? Sure. Well, I think an easy way to explain it would be
13:30
I'm on this podcast right now. I know that people are going to listen to it eventually and I want to sound great. I want to come across intelligent, smart and put together, right? Like I want these things. I want to project these things. And to be honest, I thought that's how you did life until I met some of my friends with disabilities and the very first conversation I ever had with them, they wanted to know who I was, what I liked, what were my favorite things. And if I would be their best friend and start hanging out with them.
13:59
They had no masks. They had no agenda. They had no ulterior motives other than this guy who's new needs to be accepted and loved. And you know what? We might as well be best friends because there's nothing stopping us. Right. And that was my introduction to individuals with disabilities on the whole. There's no pretense. No. Like they could care less about, you know, your degrees or, you know, whatever accolades like, you know, played baseball. Like none of that. Right. It's completely irrelevant.
14:29
Yeah, and we don't want to overgeneralize because individuals with disabilities are just like the typical population. Like there's some people that I connect with naturally and others that I don't. And there's grumpy people and there's joyful people, right? Like I don't want to overgeneralize, but I found it over and over and over again. these individuals that I got to minister with, they just wanted to have relationships and to have them now and to be
14:57
welcoming and good and joyful and it was so refreshing. It was so refreshing and I won't ever get over how that felt initially. That's cool. Which and Cody jump in here too, cause I love that example that you gave Paul because I feel like, you know, just those questions of like, who are you? What do you like? Will you be my best friend? I think if we're honest, essentially we're asking those same questions to the relationships around us, right?
15:24
veiled in all of the dumb small talk and insecurity and masks and personas, right? But essentially like you boil it down. Those are the core desire of like, am I wanted and what makes you tick? Right? I feel like those are just like a common to us, right? And yet they're so willing and bold to just cut through the fluff and offer it. Yeah, that's good. Paul, I'm wondering as I think about my own experience a little bit, and as I consider others experience, what have you noticed?
15:52
in regards to how people, what are some ways that people engage or don't engage the special needs community? Yeah. Yeah. Great question. I tell people all the time, if it's not a part of your family and your family's story or your direct story, there's always this wall of awkwardness and everyone has it. It's okay. Right? If we just say it's there because it is there.
16:19
That's okay. You don't always know like, what should I say? What should I not say? Should I touch them? Should I not? Should I keep my distance? Can they hear me? Can they understand me? Like that's natural. And when I finally figured out it's okay just to say if you've never been around individuals with disabilities, especially at the camp, we have a lot of different disabilities here. Some people that you can see outwardly what they're dealing with. Others you can't. It's okay to feel awkward.
16:48
but it's not okay to stay there. It's not okay to stay in that awkward space. It's not okay to push in. It's not okay to be okay with staying in that space. You need to, like we do with everyone, you need to push in. You need to ask questions. You need to be bold and just treat those individuals like you would anyone else. And I always open with that. Like if we have some new volunteers in our ministry or individuals that join the church and they ask about that.
17:15
the ministry here. I always start with that because it just breaks down that wall of like, maybe I'm the only one that feels that way, but you're not. Most of us do. But if you can move past that, if you can see individuals for just God's children, if you can see them as they may be different than me, but there's beautiful things that I haven't uncovered yet that live within them, then they can all be our friends. getting into the
17:43
theological side of my role. It's apparent what God thinks, and it's apparent with how Jesus spent his time that individuals with disabilities are important in the kingdom. mean, 1 Corinthians 12 22 goes so far as saying those that seem the weakest are actually indispensable. And if you think about the word indispensable, it means
18:12
cannot function without, Like should not waste, should not push aside, need to be included at the highest levels. And if we think about why God put that into his word for us to receive, then we think about what disability ministry should be in a church. And that's what we have here at White River, or at least that's what we work towards on a daily basis, is inclusion on every single level.
18:39
Some of what comes to mind too, I love your articulation of what you would say, just to name the elephant of like, Hey, there can be this felt sense of awkwardness. And I would say that a huge piece of that, I mean, for sure there's like a practical level that you described well, right? Of like, Hey, what does communication look like? Right? You know, there's some practical pieces that matter. But I would say some of that awkwardness, right? Is I would say it's far more felt internally from people outside the special needs community because of the way of relating in which
19:09
I am adept at where there is this production performance persona mentality suddenly is not the language that is spoken. And so the awkwardness feels like, oh, that way, at least for me, that way that is second nature that I can just be fluent in suddenly is not there. And so it's far more about my own, like kind of, would say wrestling with, And then if that is gone, what does relationship and engagement and connection actually.
19:37
look like, right? And so it's, yeah. And it's such a gift, but it is absolutely disorienting and awkward at the beginning. Yeah. I couldn't have said that better, Jesse. The currency in relationships with my friends with disabilities is not the same currency in my relationships with my typical friends. Like we can be friends and whether we want to or not on some level we're measuring and we're puffing up.
20:03
And we are projecting and I can be in those environments because I'm somewhat successful in my life, right? But when it comes to some of my friends with disabilities, they don't care what I do. They don't care what I own. They don't care about my degrees. They don't care about anything. I have to be Paul because that's all they care about. And if I don't bring my authentic self, then they're going to call me on it even, right? Like that's happened multiple times and the currency is authenticity and you are
20:32
100 % correct when you say that can be a large part of that awkwardness as well is I'm not used to being just me. I'm not used to not bringing all these other things that boost me up with me into this relationship. This is new. This is different. This is hard. But that's why I say that individuals with disabilities are a part of God's plan because that is what I have learned over time really matters is that true authentic connection with people around me.
21:01
And I find that in the disability community. Wow. Yeah. That feels really significant to name what both of you guys just said. Just the difference between engaging with people outside of the special needs community and engaging with people inside of it and the pretenses and then the dropping of those pretenses that is actually required. The way that interacting and engaging with special needs folks like almost requires you to go back to who you truly are.
21:31
taking off your mask. That explains why I feel awkward all the time. I'm being honest, like, totally. You know, that's wild. Paul, I'm curious. Do you have any stories from that portion of your ministry that were really meaningful to you and significant for you that you'd want to so.
21:55
the first individual I ever spent significant time with. So week one, as the new director of this camp for adults with disabilities, it was a requirement for me to be just a one-on-one with an individual through a week of camp. So I needed to experience it all. I needed to be his buddy, his helper, and he was nonverbal. And so day one, I'm like, hey, we get a whole week together and he doesn't respond, right? And I'm like, what do we want to do? And
22:24
After I asked him three or four questions, I'm like, what am I doing? Like I can't, he's not going to respond. Like I have to immediately change all of my methods, all of what I've always relied on. And so me and Jason began to color and we began to write and he knew a few words. He also had an intellectual disability that restricted some of his function. And we began to communicate on paper. And so we drew pictures.
22:54
some words, funny faces. And as the days went on, I enjoyed the silence, but felt the closeness. And unless you do that, I couldn't estimate that what that was like. But he would tell me when he was done with lunch and if he wanted a snack and if he wanted to go play Uno or go listen to music, like we would do that written. were communicating with each other in this really intimate way, which sounds strange, but it became
23:24
a relationship really quickly by thinking outside of the box and not relying on any of the normal ways of connecting. And I'll never know if I had any impact in his life because he never attended again that camp. But man, I remember how simple again what his wants were. He wanted to have fun. He wanted to eat snacks. He wanted to sing and dance, but he wanted to do all those things with me. And he would write it down. He would say, come.
23:54
or he would say more and he would write it down. And I couldn't wait for each letter to be written because he just wanted to be with me. And at the end of that week, I felt equipped in some strange way to like whoever I'm standing in front of, in whatever way they communicate, whatever their language of communication or love or whatever is, I felt more equipped to understand and to rise to that occasion.
24:24
Yeah. And I was just forever changed by that very first interaction I had. love that way that phrase that you use of there is a silence, but there was a closeness. Like I think that's so wisely put. There was an unfamiliarity. There was a difference to that. And yet it was good. That's so good. That's humbling. So I want to, and you're Pastor Paul, so I'll ask for some permission here to just put on our theological wondering. This is definitely not like my
24:53
Balaan supported hermeneutics, but we'll just put on our wondering caps here. I did this very humbly, but I was reading, this is not my thought. So I'm also disclaiming that, but was reading a book recently and there was Scottish priest and I can't remember his name, but he was talking and wondering around the relationship between Jesus and Lazarus. And so he began kind of like looking at that story and just trying to like imagine and ask what if, and just pull off some of the barriers of assumption.
25:23
that are typically that we or he brings to the text. And he started looking at it and he began to wonder, first of all, what was it about Lazarus that Jesus brought him back from the dead? Other individuals that Jesus could have done that too, right? And yet in scripture, like we only see Jesus do that to Lazarus. And so that kind of like got his wheels turning, thinking some more. And then he sat with it more and just said, like, you know, we see this vivid articulation of Jesus's grief over his death, right? Like that Jesus left.
25:51
And then he continues to follow the story and wonder when Lazarus comes back from the dead, there are these interactions that Jesus has with his sisters and this verbal interaction with Mary and Martha. And they're talking about that, but we hear no recording of any conversation between Jesus and Lazarus. And so what this guy was wondering was speculating, right? Was I wonder if Lazarus was nonverbal. Like I wonder if.
26:18
He didn't have the ability to speak. And yet because of that, there was this closeness and this intimacy that Jesus felt with him that caused him to weep over his death, that actually caused him to bring him back from the dead to say, no, there's something about this person here that I love, that our community needs in such a way, kind of this honoring because of his life. And so we don't know, right? There's speculation there. But I remember reading that as you're talking about your interaction.
26:47
There's part of me that just like, feel the like hopefulness around like, could that be true? Maybe of Lazarus and also the resonance of yes, these people in this community actually are our teachers. Like they are our friends, they are our peers, but even more than that, like they are our teachers to invite us into deeper connection with them, with God. Like, so I'd to just like throw that idea out again. It's sort of just this hypothetical what if, but it's one minute.
27:17
Yeah, I mean, think it's fascinating as well. I think if we go through scriptures with the lens of disability, I think we find just a treasure trove of stories of how those disabilities and those individuals were able to serve and to serve themselves, but then to serve as examples of just the glory of God, right? mean, there are many scholars that believe that Matthew himself
27:47
had some autistic tendencies, whether or not we label him as autistic or not, who knows? But through the scriptures, we see some behaviors that are consistent with some of those markers of ASD. And we're all familiar with many of the stories of Jesus healing individuals with disabilities and how those specific moments in healings served as the evidence that the people watching needed to believe and to join the faith.
28:16
and to continue it. Yeah, I would not doubt that that was a part of that story or a part of a lot of stories from scripture because again, we hear what God thinks about individuals with disabilities. Indispensable is a word that resonates with me so much. Let's take James 1.27. It says, that God sees as pure and faultless is this. And whatever comes next, I'm gonna do, right? It says,
28:43
If you want your religion to be pure and faultless, do this, to look after the orphans and widows in their distress first, and then to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. So if God is primarily concerned with us looking after those in need, and in Jesus's time it was orphans and widows because they were in the street, they didn't have anything, they didn't own property, they needed assistance just to survive, let alone hear and believe.
29:10
and in our world who's in the margins, right? And for a large part, large amount of people who are in the margins in our culture and society are people with disabilities. And so I do want my religion to be perfect in God's eyes. I do want it to be pure. And so I just follow suit. So I look for the people who have disabilities and I believe Jesus did the same thing. Because it's so much more than just charity, right? There's so much more
29:39
Jesus knows that when we are in those relationships, there's the mutual goodness of God that is exchanged, right? And it isn't just, I'm doing this to do good deeds. It's actually, no, not only is there, do I have something to offer them in some way, they have something to offer me too, right? And so it is not, it is not a like hierarchical piece, but it is understanding. No, when proximity becomes closer, connection and transformation happens. Yeah. I think you're spot on again. It is this dual.
30:09
opposite nature reality where we have a lot of the things. And when I say we, I just mean the typical individuals in our culture. We have a lot of the things that individuals with disabilities need, and then they have the opposite things that we need. That's why it's so important here at White River that we invest time, treasure talents into our special needs ministry because from our elders to our members,
30:36
We understand individuals with disabilities are a huge part of the kingdom and they can teach us and bring to the congregation, bring to the table the things that we can't, right? I say it like this, we all have a kingdom responsibility. No one is exempt from serving the Lord and His kingdom in the way that God has built them. And me just being Paul Halfcoat, I bring to the table certain things, the things I like.
31:05
my personality, my history experiences, like I connect with a certain amount of people by just being me. That's my responsibility. I need to fill that hole in the kingdom. But just by being me, I don't connect with this other population of people at all for whatever reason. And it's not a good or bad. I just don't. And we need our friends with disabilities to just be themselves, to fill those gaps and to
31:32
fulfill their own kingdom responsibility because simply we cannot do it no matter what we try. Yeah. So good. Paul, you are a restorative man through and through, and it's really fun to hear your stories, to hear the ways that God has moved in your life personally and moved in other people's lives through you. We're grateful to have able to have this time with you. Thanks for sharing your life with us. Yeah.
31:58
Well, it has been a pleasure with you guys. It has been a pleasure on this journey. And before we go, I'll just say if there's anybody out there that hears this episode and you are a member of a church or of a community and you see those individuals with disabilities around you and maybe your church hasn't evolved a ministry for them or you don't know where to start or you just want some advice on how to build or expand like White River and myself offer our services, our experience.
32:27
and all that we have to anybody out there if they want to get something started in their area and specifically at their church. God has equipped us to be an equipping church. And so that's what we offer. It's cool. And just so everybody knows who's listening, Paul is in the Grove Collective, the online community that we have. So you can definitely find him there and instant message him or whatever and reach out. Yeah. So
32:52
You're available. You're making yourself available to all of us. You've opened up your life and your story to us. And it's so generous of you. And it's really fun for me. Jesse. Yeah. Well, thanks. Thanks. Grateful for your friendship and your presence. Thank you, Yeah. Well, thanks for having me guys. I appreciate you. Yeah, you bet. Take care. Thanks.