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The Real Estate Addicts (REA) podcast is a must-listen for anyone interested in real estate development, investment, construction and entrepreneurship. Each episode dives into a wide range of industry topics and features conversations with savvy, successful entrepreneurs who candidly share their career paths, challenges, breakthroughs, and the stories behind the remarkable companies they’ve built. Expect big personalities, thoughtful insights, and conversations that both educate and inspire.
Co-hosted by Ray Hurteau, Dan Rubin (Instagram: @rhinvestgroup), and Marc Savatsky (Instagram: @choose_boston)
Follow the Real Estate Addicts Podcast on YouTube: @RealEstateAddicts
00:00
Good work doing the Trustpilot thing prior to the purchase. don't need you not have that experience recently? Yeah. I just got scammed. I posted about this laundry folding machine. It's gotten like so much engagement. Yeah, I commented on it. Everyone's like, tell me more about this laundry folding thing. So there's like a million different sellers on Alibaba of this machine. uh Like the same machine? The same machine. There's like a bunch, but regardless, I like, get.
00:30
down the road and discussions with this guy is giving me dimensions, specs, all this different stuff seems really legit. And then he says that he can't take payment through Alibaba. And then he wants me to pay him through PayPal. ah you found there's a lot of sketchy? I've never bought anything off of Alibaba. I've bought two things so far. One, I got like, you know, the adjustable Bowflex weights where you like turn the handle. So I bought like a dope, like adjustable set of weights that are steel and they're branded like Choose Boston.
00:58
That's cool. Yeah. they, and that was legit. They showed up, they were half the price of like, you know, Bowflex or whatever. And then I also bought naturally like a giant water slide for the lake. And that showed up fine. Yeah. But now you're a laundry machine. happened? Yeah. So laundry machine. So we move it to PayPal. like, I'm still using my credit card and I'm using PayPal. So you can always do that. have some recourse here.
01:24
But he called me like while we're setting up and says that he needs $250 for insurance. Uh, but don't worry if the package successfully is delivered, you'll be refunded the $250. And I was like, explain that business model where you can buy insurance. then if they don't spend money on you, get your whole premium back and they just log into your computer to help you out there. And that's when he's like, it's already halfway across the world. Did you check the tracking document?
01:54
So then I just screen shot id the tracking website that he gave me for some foreign like UPS thing. And I put it in chat GPT and just wrote like, is this a scam? And it's like, most certainly yes. you're never going to, you don't think you're going to get your machine? I don't think I'm going to get the machine and I don't. You can dispute it, right? Okay. I can try. We'll see. It's 300 bucks. That's out there. certainly didn't pay the two-fifth. Did finished materials for your projects on Alibaba?
02:21
Yeah, so we're fitting out an office space right now. It's kind of a tangent, we're calling it the union. And the idea is I need to come up with a better thing to say than we work for real estate space because we work has such like a scammy connotation to it, but it's kind of what it It's not scammy. just, wasn't a great business model. You know, it kind of fell apart. Well, I think it also, it stemmed from, it stemmed from the guy who founded it. I mean, I think, didn't read into it. Maybe you guys.
02:49
did and I'm just talking out of my ass here, but I thought the idea was that he just over levered himself and he had these like ridiculously expensive leases and then he was trying to get higher, you know, sub leases. What is he like? He was like absolute ragers and stuff. I mean, yeah, was doing all those things, but like Bernie Madoff style fraud, was a talented people's investments, know, like all of these, the financial health of the company was not disclosed to everyone investing in it. And that's putting it very nicely. Okay. Um,
03:18
And then he wanted to, cause I thought he came back to the market and wanted to do multifamily. Yeah, he is. He's got a fund. Um, America loves second chances, right? And third and. Um, yeah. So you, so you said you're buying. So the union, the WeWork space, we have a really cool interior designer we're working with. Um, and she specked out light fixtures, um, all kinds of like wall coverings. Um, I'm thinking what else, even furniture.
03:46
And all of it, comes on like an Excel sheet with like links to West Elm, four of these, five of those from article or blue dot and the pricing. So like, I know that the, package for furniture, for example, wants to be like 30 ish thousand dollars. I mean, we're buying that for, if I told you half, it's like, so what are you doing? Just like a reverse image search of the stuff that she's bingo.
04:12
And then it just like pops up on some random sketchy website. Yeah. So like the mid-century modern couch that was like 3,700 bucks, it's like 1,200 shipped. Assuming I'm not getting scammed. I haven't seen it yet. It's probably coming from the same factory. Like if you're not getting scammed. Bingo. Right? Like... had one person say to me, and like whether they're lying or not, who knows? But like, yeah, we make that product for that company. Interesting.
04:41
So, so if this pans out, you'll start like buying finished materials, potentially. Like here's where you get screwed. Uh, you L listed light fixtures or, or, or anything electrical. Like, you know, if you have a Newton electrical inspector, careful. Well, also plumbing fit, like you're not buying like non mass approved. Yeah. Massachusetts, should back up. Massachusetts has an actual approved plumbing fixture.
05:10
database, right? You need to make sure, at least for the projects where the inspector is probably plumbing fixtures or you can't do it for, but like, I mean, are you like how many on when you're buying light fixtures on Wayfair? It's like, yeah, the, may approve plumbing fixture thing is such a scam too. It's just like everybody needs their pound of flesh. I think that
05:30
the state probably gets some money for this. I was gonna say, is it like a pay to play kind of thing or just another? I don't even think it's, and it's very few states that have, it's like Massachusetts, California, and like maybe New York. There's no other state that- I like the states that are over-regulated and have out-migration problems. know, it's a scam is those labels on literally everything that you buy that says, this may cause cancer.
05:59
That's a California regulation. yeah, that's a classic one. They don't know where the products are going. So they ship whatever. Like what can't you buy? Like where's the cancer free products? Yeah, so I mean, that's the point of that. The plumbing fixture thing, just to close the loop, is technically about having no lead. So it's certified that within the valve. And they'll flow some tubes too. Oh yeah, Like you can't buy...
06:24
Like you, like even if you're on, it's interesting. Like some of those websites are pretty smart about it. Like if you're on Ferguson's website and you're buying plumbing fixtures, if it's over a certain gallons per minute, it will say, cannot ship to a Massachusetts address. It will actually come up when you try to add it to your cart, which is actually smart on Ferguson's part. like, yeah, so like I think between being mass approved and you need to like, you know, you can't,
06:53
Wastewater. Yes, that's where your business partner lives in New Hampshire and sometimes have his business addressing. Yes, the low flow stuff's important for sub metering purposes and all that good stuff. Well, no, not some if they're not if they're paying. Why do care about if it's low flow or not? It has to be low flow in order to be for you to be allowed to sub meter. You have to have certain lighting. It just has to be a certain gas permitted or less just to buy it in Massachusetts. You know, there's that but if you
07:23
put something in that has too high of a gallons per minute, they view it as almost as if the tenant doesn't know better. So they should automatically get low flow. This is another regulation. And then they complain that your water is just trickling out of your shower. Yeah. How many of those did we have? Shower heads came on to like, isn't this can go any stronger? I'm like, I'm Everyone complained about them. Yeah. This is what we have. I know I had a similar situation with some expensive units and I was like, here's Maury Healy's email address.
07:52
I don't know what to tell you. Um, but there is a way to sort of Jerry rig those things. mean, I'm not really a big Trump guy. Ray's getting excited. We're getting into politics. I'm not a Trump guy and I don't like any of immigration stuff, particularly just putting it out there, but I use his low flow plumbing fixture thing. I can get on board with that. That's the, you're making me out to be like the David Sachs of this podcast, like the right wing Trump.
08:19
You know, arm of this podcast. I mean, relative to Dan, relative to us, you probably are sure. probably skew more right than you guys. Yeah. But you never know. Sometimes I'm like a, I'm I'm pretty conservative. I'm fiscally conservative. You know what I like to do? like to code switch. There's a term you guys love. I don't even know what that is. Is that when you, is that when you wear your wife's high heels? uh Code switching is basically just like.
08:48
personality mirroring in some ways. A lot of people get criticized for putting on an accent around somebody that is not uh a US born citizen and trying to blend in. Okay. Got it. Okay. All right. This is really... So, Alibaba. Where does the line... We never did the intro music. Yeah, it's okay. I was waiting for the right time. You guys think you're... I have so many questions now. So, you mirror the person you're talking to.
09:18
but like walk me through it. Like it's one thing if the person you're talking to just has a Southern drawl, but like what if the person you're talking to is like. It's just a way to make people feel more comfortable around them. Like you kind of act similar to them. You can be your own person, but I mean, I don't know. It comes with some controversy. I'm not saying I do it all the time. I'm just saying like I'll gel with people to not be combative or to, you I kind of like you read the, I think I understand it now. You read the person and you kind of.
09:47
figure out what their personality is like, and then you like kind of cater to that. I'll cater to it. just try to not do anything that they might think is offensive, which I know is a little too left for my persona for you. But what if they're like, try to be sensitive to people. What if they're espousing like anti-Semitic racist views? Well, then that's no good. Then I just can't yeah them and then I don't talk to them again.
10:12
You kind of have to, I don't want to like come across and be like, Hey, that's not cool. And then I'm getting shipped. know, don't want that. I'm going to give you a couple more. If anybody's still listening to this podcast, we're going way out. All 25 of our subscribers just unsubscribed. uh I think another scam that's real is uh so like, need a key box. You know, a lot of people know Knox boxes on the outside of the building. So you similarly in an elevator machine room, you need a
10:41
equivalent of a Knox box, which is a fire rated lock box that the municipality has a key to open. I've been searching around. to me. I've never lived this because we didn't do that. For the elevator machine room? Yeah. Yeah. need to, well, I guess if you have a Knox box on the outside of your building, Right. I say things so funny. You can put your elevator, your firefighter operation key.
11:09
Maybe you're talking about an actual machine room. Ours is an MRL machine room lists. still, in my sense that you still need a machine. I mean, that's another very strange thing. just put a master key in the Knox box. Yeah. And it opens every door in the building. Yeah. Yeah. But you also need like a, Kone two key or an elevator operation key. Like you've, know that like when the fire alarm goes off, it's tied to your elevator and there's a key that the firefight fire department has that lets them run it.
11:39
in that circumstance. In the elevator room? Yeah. Oh, I see. I think it's actually in the machine room, but to get to that machine room, you have to... I don't think we have a specific box We definitely don't. We have an elevator room key, which is, you know, that's what we take care of. yeah. Basically, it's 400 bucks and there's one company. So I reach out to Boston Fire Department. I'm like waiting for a response, but I'm like, who else manufactures this thing that like only you have a key to? And I know what the answers are. It's the same thing for...
12:07
like Post Office boxes solves their industries. It's the only company, cause they're like, by the USPS. It's the only company that makes the boxes. And they're so serious about it. they don't even give you the locks. Now you're waiting on the Post Office once you've installed it and they've inspected it. But like they have to be like specific height. They're like very, very anal about it. USPS approved Post Box, I know. Wild. Yeah. So.
12:36
Well, let's kick this off, guys. Yeah, do it.
12:51
People love the intro. How many comments have we gotten on this? I've not seen any comments. No, just in general. Yeah, dude. Makes them feel at home. What do you think of our new studio? It's very cozy. For those of you watching, it smells like burnt sugar currently. It's our candle flavor of the day. We'll make sure we mix that up. That's so romantic that you guys lit a candle. Dan does it. Dan knows how to me to ambiance. Ambiance. to mask Ray's farts. It's basically right.
13:21
I get it. gosh. So, so what are we talking about? We're talking about like scams. So I think in terms of real estate, really here's where the meat and potatoes of this is. It's like, you can't go for, we said, we could say good, better, best. You can't just go best, best, best, best, best. Like occasionally you've got to roll the dice and look at something and say like, is, where's how much Advil can I buy for how much savings and is it worth it?
13:49
And like, how do you evaluate those decisions? Like for me, it's never going to be like my electrician or HVAC guy. Like I'm not going to take the low cost provider there. You know, is it, is it finishes? Is it a certain trade that you're like, fuck it. I mean, over the years, like on some of our earlier projects, we said, why don't we bundle the plumber and the HVAC uh contractor and only work with somebody that does both. Because at the moment, before first starting out, know, plumbing would blame HVAC, HVAC would blame plumbing.
14:19
People's equipment would be in the way, ducks would be in the way, things get cut. So we're like, let's just consolidate it and no one, they're not gonna yell at themselves. And that went okay. Yeah, I think to your point, Mark, I agree with you. I think that there's gotta be a balance between what you're spending real dollars on and what you can kind of find in certain areas. mean, now that like the internet is so powerful now and-
14:49
you can find things like you don't have to go like remember when you had to like go to a lighting store and like look at all of the lights or look at the catalogs like it's just you don't have to do that anymore like there's so many places where you can source materials I think finished materials is like the biggest thing like between tile and light fixtures and floor coverings like there's just
15:13
tens of thousands of options. There's too many of them. It's only, you can get overwhelmed. Like how many times have you just been like spent like scrolling on Wayfair looking for light fixtures. Or Alibaba. Yeah. Or Alibaba. I know, but I love the reverse image search. I think that's a great hack. And like- Especially on the expensive sites like the Crate and Barrels and the, know, restoration hardwares and stuff.
15:39
I think we did that in Lynn with that chandelier type light. No, we did that in Vilrica. I found a, there was like a restoration hardware uh chandelier that I wanted and it was like five grand. And I found it on some sketchy website for like 1500 or something like that. And it came and it worked and it was fine. Yeah, and I'm sure if you're like a lighting geek, you're gonna be like, the LED driver is inferior.
16:07
And, uh, you know, the finish on it is this instead. And like, you're probably right, but it's 15 feet in the air and, you know, in 10 years, it's going to be out of style anyway. Yeah. Relax. Um, so, you know. So what's the best deal that you've gotten? Like, yeah. Have you, have you found something and gotten like 70 % off and it was basically identical or.
16:32
Light fixtures is a great one. I think light fixtures are all Careful on UL ratings. Yeah. And, you know, if you get a, if your, you know, electrical inspector sees a box with a bunch of Chinese writing on it, it's not going to be great for you, probably. And maybe, you know, I don't know how much it would matter or how much it plays out, but like the color temperatures, you got to make sure that those are also pretty consistent. A lot of light fixtures now though have the selector now built in where you can like change
17:02
the color temperature right on the fixture. It ranges from like 2,700 to like 5,000 or something like that. And you just select which ones you want. Yeah, I mean, Windows, I think you get a great bang for your buck right now. Yeah. For like European tilt and turn windows. Like I'll plug, know, Drew Techs. like Peter and I like those guys and that product. But it's an amazing quality window for that price. And it's not that different from just buying something on.
17:28
whatever Alibaba for like, was having this conversation with my lumber rep yesterday because we're pricing out your decks for a project we're doing. And, and he was like talking to me he was like, there's these, this is like older guy like that only use like Anderson 400 series. Like that's all he used. And I was Todd. Yeah. Oh, really? You know him? Yeah. And so like he had like a, think he said he had like a 50 something unit building and he priced out.
17:57
Anderson 400s Anderson 100s. Oh, they were 100s? hung and it's still. Yeah, so he's priced out Anderson 100s and then he priced out the Drutax. And I think it came in like 50 grand less. For a much better window than an Anderson 100. It's like a vinyl, the Anderson 100s is like a vinyl replacement. It's like a vinyl window. We used to do what, the Arvin Essentials series or whatever we were doing. We would do the Integrities, but I think they changed the name.
18:26
The name, that name stuff drives me crazy. It's funny too. Cause like, look on windows of jeldwin. It's like, ever used a jeldwin window? I know, but I haven't seen them used a lot anymore. They kind of like fizzled. know they, they, everyone used to use them. But like, I guess where I'm going with this is like the criticism and it's legitimate of buying a window from Poland or wherever is that when you need like a crank or like the thing gets scratched and you need just one little cover.
18:56
It's impossible to get. It's gonna take weeks. You gotta do this. know, GelDwein's an American company, believe. Not that much better. No. Like, it's still a huge pain in the ass when you need that new handle. Like, if anybody... And they're stocking a lot of this stuff now. Like, I know like Nebs or like lumber suppliers, if they're doing enough business, they'll have like, you know, a couple dozen boxes of extra handles laying around if you need one, right? I have a finished building right now.
19:24
And I think one of the only real outstanding issues is the French sliding doors where the handles came white instead of black. And I'm still waiting for the handles. It's like, guys, you're going to go into my buyer's homes pretty soon. Right. And I alerted you to this problem when they were delivered during framing. That's an American window company. And I'm a pretty good customer. That's brutal. Yeah, it's brutal. That is brutal. Yeah, it's just, I think.
19:50
I mean, I think people are super loyal and I think you're like, that's what people are kind of holding on to. But I just, don't think that you, I think the days of being loyal to a single company or manufacturer or brand are over. Like I just stuff. Why, like what brand? I don't agree with that necessarily. I think it depends on the service after the sale. If you have issues, that's a huge factor. But prices is very sensitive too. I mean,
20:19
You can't have a product that is even 50 % open But in today's society where you can price shop, like, Well, like tile. I think tile's a really good example. I think tile is like- You I'm sure that if your entire world is tile, you can tell me all the difference. Even flooring. Yeah, countertops, I don't know, to some extent quartz is quartz. So like, do I go to Cosmo Marble and Granite and bring with me like- Right. Yeah.
20:48
Like if you're going with like a white pure white quartz, like, yeah. So this is a factory factory. This is a warehouse nearby. Um, come on plug it's it's Cosmo marble and granite and my countertop provider, my installer, um, they've got a beautiful showroom, all these different, you know, you name the, the, the, product. Um, they have it on display and my rep understands our business model. And she's like, listen, I'm going to make an appointment for you. Go to this warehouse. It's 10 minutes down the road.
21:17
and like you need to kind of shower after you leave. it's not, it is not the same as the showroom I came from. The retail consumers of the showroom. They have just, I think they pull in palette after palette of lookalikes for, you know, name the expensive quartz product that you're used to seeing. You know, Crera Gold, Bianca, whatever it is. And this stuff is gorgeous. Porcelains and quartz's and it's, I don't know, I would say,
21:45
you're gonna buy that for 30 to 40 % less. And they're still making more. It's just like an OEM name. It's not the brand name. like, all comes from the same factory. Is it like olive oil from Italy where, you know, it has to come from a certain region or like even the tomatoes, marine, I'm gonna butcher the tomatoes. San Marzano. San Marzano. I think you're talking more marble. Is that where the stone- I think you're talking- I think that's really From a certain region.
22:15
that makes the price go up or the input. I mean, certain actual stones, like certain marbles and stuff will only come from specific quarries in specific parts of the world, right? So like Carrera, think, well, I think Carrera is pretty common, but like...
22:39
Other types of marbles, like I forget the, like dolomites and like that type of stuff. It's like that will only come from specific quarries, but like quartz is made in a factory. Like it doesn't matter. Right. Yeah. I'm sure if that's your world and that's what you do all day every day, you're going to like respond ain't with the tank with an old, the that's put on this and the coffee stain is going to wipe off on the good one, not you. don't believe you.
23:08
Um, it's like flooring is kind of the same way. There's so many flooring options. are lot of flooring options. So many flooring options. Yeah. You know, I mean, I believe strongly that like so much of what you're paying for is, the brand and, uh, behind the beautiful showroom and the espresso, the Nespresso coffee they give you is the same product that you get in the place that you need to shower when you left from. It's like, you know, this elevated experience with that wood floor.
23:38
but like, you don't think they're bringing that in from wherever? Like, I also think what you're paying for is how many times a product is handled. So if you're buying direct from the manufacturer, how many people do you cut out? You're cutting out, in certain instances, you're cutting out the distributor, and then you're cutting out the fabricator or the person that's reselling it at the end. it's like, you're cutting out, and they all wanna cut. They're all getting to cut. So it's like,
24:06
Well, light textures is the worst out there. And tile. Yeah. And tile. For sure. And some companies, that's how they compete, right? Yeah. I think flooring, it all depends. If you're going to go with real hardwood, I would care more about the actual manufacturing process and what clarity you're looking for on the wood and what the moisture content is going to be when it arrives. If they're cutting wood and not drying it completely, and then you're getting all screwed up after the installation. Look, I'm more talking about like VCT,
24:35
But you're about engineered, densified hardwoods. Right. know what we in Lin was we actually ended up taking a bunch of floor samples. Actually, I think our architect did this and did like a water test and we did a drop test. We wanted to see what would happen if you drop shit on it. And we found the product now, was it Floret? Floret. And that one has been nearly indestructible for us. there's no like...
25:02
hardboard kind of middle area so it doesn't swell if there is a water incident. was very stable. We liked it. I think utility, I'm a utilitarian. like, I just care about functionality. I know you guys, it's gotta look nice and I agree, but I also- Again, it's a fine balance. And again, it depends on the price point. can look beautiful, but if it's gonna break and I gotta fix it 12 times a year, that sucks. Yeah. I'll give you another good one. Door hardware.
25:30
So, Oh yeah. know, shout out Josh Brandt, but Josh has a theory and I've sort of adopted it that like the things you need to pay attention to, the most attention to are things that you interact with daily and that you reach your touch. know, if it's this fixture in your commercial building that's 20 feet in the air, but like door hardware every time you come in our room. So it has to feel rich, heavy, all those things, but like I'm paying 120 bucks a handle set for M-Tech or Baldwin. No.
25:58
Like I just can't do it, not in a project in Dorchester. Like it doesn't make any sense. So I went on like a mission to find. There's a good middle ground. Yeah. very good middle ground. Mega handles. I mean, I use it in my own house. The CEO and a head of sales drove to Boston. They brought a bunch of samples with them. We had lunch. Based out of New York? Based out of New York. They're in Brooklyn. And I was like, you know, you can feel the heft to it. And it's a great product. And like, we're in Dorchester too.
26:27
Yeah. That's, I would keep wanting to say half price. It's probably less than- Oh, it's way less. It's probably a quarter. I brought that, I literally got a, I brought, I got a sample of a Baldwin lock. And then I got the equivalent sample from you of mega handles and they look almost identical. And I brought it to my interior designer and I showed her both. And I was like, tell me which one is Baldwin. I told me which one is mega handles and she couldn't tell the difference.
26:56
It's like a wine tasting, right? $2,000 bottle. I totally... Yeah, they all believe that they can. And you know, for every horror story that you'll get about like some quartz product that like took... I'll give you like four really expensive brands where I actually like was convinced I spent the money. And then I'm like, holy fuck, like this thing sucks. I had a buddy who like, yeah. And they didn't back it up at all. Like... I've seen like restoration hardware light fixtures that you put in a bathroom and then six months later it's peeling off or rusting.
27:26
because of the humidity in the bathroom. It's to be made, it's a vanity light fixture. And then they'll replace it, which is great customer service, but why did it have to get replaced in the place? With the door handles, it's almost like the Dyson model where you can't just go based on the weight. You gotta go, how many times did they open and close it? And did that handle set hold up or did the knob fall off or did thing get gummed up on the inside with no oil or grease?
27:54
Josh's thing where like saying where it's like you want to spend the money on things that people are going to interact with daily. know, cabinets, cabinetry, like that type of stuff. that's like anything someone's touching on a day-to-day basis or using on a day-to-day basis, you want to make sure that, but like you said, you know, stuff that's- Speaking of cabinetry, absolutely you can never ever, God be a Cardinal, send no, no, what is it? uh
28:25
Not the corrugated cardboard, MDF. Not MDF. Well, even MDF, would argue. Anything but plywood. It has to be plywood. Plywood box. Plywood box. That's pretty standard these Do have any reservations about using like non-plywood boxes? I prefer plywood box. I know that's- I think cabinetry is also another one. Yeah, you can bring in. The problem that we face is that we don't do enough volume. Yeah. If you're really in a place where you reliably could do 120 units a uh year.
28:54
Um, it'd be worth it to just bring containers in of kitchens. But you've even seen it like, like the commercial line of certain cabinets is insanely less expensive. Like I don't understand what, there's like, you can't really see the difference in the quality between, you know what I mean? Like when you get above like 14 or 15 units, the price like plummets on a, on cabinetry. Um, and it's just,
29:23
It's another thing where I think there's so many cabinet manufacturers and they come flat packed now from like overseas. I'll give you actually a good one. Um, mirrors and bathroom specialties, towel bars, all that stuff. Like you can spend, if you want to go with like a Breezo matching towel bar. Oh God. You know, like I guess if you use some sort of like gunmetal black, probably had to do that in my house because I use, there's like, otherwise don't be an idiot. Uh, and it is funny how like design a lot of times I feel like
29:52
design professionals or like sophisticated general contractors that I've worked with on the owner's side will like roll their eyes at you. Like, oh, that's what you're going to put in. you're buying that on Amazon. I'm always just like, no, you can do well with those fixtures. I'll tell you what you can me your credit card. Let's see what we're going to buy now. And if you're still going to the one deal, speaking of that daily interaction, mean, nothing drives me more crazy than when the towel bar or the TP holder starts rotating, moving, coming out of the wall.
30:20
So everything got blocked when we started doing stuff, you got to block it all and keep it locked in there. Cause the little dainty screws and the, you know, part where they give you that one tenant and they rip it out. It's tough on a high rise because all that blocking needs to be fire rated. Oh yeah. Um, just one of many challenges, the high rise. Um, but you know, I guess let's go flip to trades quickly and then I'll wrap this up. But yeah, you know, we've talked a lot about finishes and like where you can.
30:49
fine savings and where it's okay to go after them and, know, where frankly I wouldn't, it just isn't worth the risk. But, um, the longer I do this, the more I realized like, I don't know that there is a trade that I'm really willing to just like, ah, fuck it. It's just painting. Like I've now worked with good painters and bad paint. It's like, actually that really does matter. Flooring really matters. um drywall plaster, maybe board hangers.
31:16
is a bit of a commodity. I've seen board hangers kind of sketchy too. You get the grooves that go through things. Or they're adding, or like even at my house, like they were like, they were lazy. The hangers at my house, they were lazy. And they came to a point where the boards butted up, they didn't hit a piece of strapping. So they added like a two by four. They didn't put a piece of strapping. So there was a big bump in my ceiling. So like, because they were lazy and they didn't want to cut.
31:46
board back to the piece of strapping and then use another piece to continue. like, so it's like, think like board hangers, think there's, mean, there's definitely good and bad, like, even not even going to framing. mean, that's, that's hugely important. If things, everything to follow straight flat, you know, whatever you're from foundations, like would not take the low cost provider. Yeah. Um, your whole building. There's definitely, agree with you. Like,
32:15
tradesmen or tradespeople, are good and there are bad. So I think what it comes down to is you need to get specialists. There's nothing that scares me away from working with somebody that says, I can do everything. You can do everything, but you can do nothing well, in my opinion, unless you started in the same field. Or they're going to sub it out. So it's like the framers. And then you have no control. Yeah.
32:39
It's like the framer who's like, oh, I'll do your siding and your roofing and like, you know what I mean? So it's like, uh, but are you doing it or who else is, who is doing it? We put clauses in our contracts now that said, if you're going to sub any workout, we have to approve of it first. All right. It's a great, it's a great move. There's some gray area where, if you buy HVAC and your sub is buying all the air handlers.
33:08
And he pumps from, you know, another company and then the thermostats and control wiring from like, is that subbing it out? No, no. mean, like doing the actual labor, you know, not materials they can buy wherever the hell they want. I really give a shit. I mean, it's, really just comes down to is the contractor sort of builder friendly versus do they want to work with a retail client and give them that.
33:35
kind of white glove experience. So we haven't named a single trade that you can just reliably follow the price to the bottom and take the lowest one. I don't think so. used to landscaping to something. Maybe. If it's not like overly complicated. Yeah. What about insulation? Yeah, I you were going say insulation. I know. And insulation. Even that can get screwed up. Insulation is such a race to the bottom. And there are really low prices out there. I'm going to say that like the best I can offer for
34:03
some of these trades, maybe painting, maybe installation is like, you don't need the most expensive guy. Like don't ever let someone tell you that like it's Rolls Royce or you're going to be screwed. like with the level five finish. mean, level five is yeah, board and plow is blueboard plaster. I like, uh, anyway, what I was saying is don't, um, don't need the most expensive in certain trades, but you also, there's not one trade that I can come up with.
34:31
where like the absolute low cost provider is going to do an adequate job and you should feel like, it. Let's just go with that. Don't take the lows. Don't take the highs. It's not framing. It's not roofing. It's not siding. It's not site. It's not concrete. Like what is it? What is it? Is it all of it? It's not all of it. Yeah. uh, yeah. the multiple bits is the whole point. yeah. And the best thing you're going to do is don't, don't get convinced that like,
35:01
You know, the paint guy who's, you know, instead of 350 a room is a 1200 a room and he's really, really worked like, yeah. That's, that's also scary. Yeah. I agree with you there. So cool. Oh, this is a good episode. I you know, I think we, uh, hit a bunch of, of good topics and hopefully this was valuable. Uh, thank you for reading, listening, viewing, subscribing.
35:31
than we do just for fun for the listeners, for content. And so if you can jump on Apple podcasts and, you know, give us, write a short review, have chat, can do it. It helps the podcast grow. See you on the next one. Cheers. Later.