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Interviews with entrepreneurs and business leaders who’ve “made it” in Thailand. Real stories of ambition, setbacks, and strategic wins on the path to success. Built for founders and operators who want to win in Thailand.
Guests from the US, UK, Australia, and Thailand. Honest journeys and cross-cultural lessons. Inspiration for anyone building in the Thai market.
Apply to be a guest:
https://madeitinthailand.com/apply
Hosted by Scott Pressimone, a US expat based in Thailand for 13+ years and owner of Fractiond, a Thailand-based strategy consultancy.
#ThailandBusiness #ExpatSuccess #ThaiExpat
Why is it that jewelry stores in
the United States or elsewhere don't
sell a high karat gold product?
If you have 23 karat gold
in a jewelry store, everyone
would gravitate toward that.
And it would make all of the 14 karat
and 18 karat look pale in comparison.
All right, so today I am
here speaking with Tom Pryor.
He's the co-founder of Baht Gold, and that
can be found on the website 23kgold.com.
Is that right, Tom?
That's correct.
Perfect.
Well, thank you so much
for joining me today.
You're very welcome.
Thanks for asking.
Yeah, for sure.
So that brings up why I
asked Tom on the channel.
I decided to make a video on gold and
just to educate people like my friends and
family about how to buy gold in Thailand.
But I realized I'm a bit out of my league.
On this because as much as I've bought
some gold, I'm not a gold expert.
I'm not a Thai gold expert.
So I thought it would make sense
to have Tom on and we can kind of
hear it from the expert, right?
So, let's jump into this with learning
a little bit more about you, Tom.
So first, how long have you
actually been in Thailand?
I've been in Thailand 16 years.
I was married in 2020
with my wife, Thai woman.
And, we decided that we
would move here, actually.
We're going to move here
for a very short time.
Yeah.
And it turned into 16 years, so there must
be something good about Thailand, right?
One year, two years, six months,
always ends up turning into
over 10 at a minimum, right?
what about your exposure to
Thai gold or gold in general?
That does state back a long time.
First of all, I just wanted to mention
that I'm from, Glens Falls, New York,
which is a small town in upstate New York.
And, and I went into the
military, during the Vietnam era.
And I was stationed in Korea, though I
wasn't in Vietnam at the time, in 74.
And, I was in a signal unit.
I was in the signal core and we,
provided communications for several
different units, one being aviation.
And so, it was very
exciting, very interesting.
We would always be ahead of
everybody because we had to set
up our equipment and everything.
We had generator sets with us.
And, and it was pretty, plush.
I mean, once we got set up, we, we had,
you know, hot water, we had, you know,
electricity that we could plug into.
And these Cobra pilots got wind of that.
And they would land their, their cobras
or Hueys, some of them were, were warrant
officers that landed those aircraft.
And they would always immediately
come over to us so they could have
hot coffee or in the morning so they
could use their electric shavers.
So during the course of a few
days in 74, I noticed that
all of them had gold chains.
And, and so I asked them about that.
And really, it's a quite interest,
interesting story because the, military
would issue pilots, barter kits.
Mm-hmm.
Barter kits contained like 18 karat
gold coins or something of value.
So if they did get shot down, they
would have something that they could
negotiate with the Vietnamese to get
themselves out of that predicament.
but the government of course is a
little bit cheap when it comes to things
like, here's a 14 karat gold watch
band to use, but these guys are smart.
So they would buy local things that
are considered locally valuable.
Yes.
And the baht chain was what they
chose because it's high karat gold.
Yes.
So that's how I first learned about it.
And then many years went by and I
find myself in Thailand and here
these beautiful gold shops just
loaded down, brimming with gold.
And that's how I started
to learn about it.
Wow.
Mm-hmm.
Well, so the gold that you were
exposed to then, was it again
this 96.5%, 23 karat gold?
Or was it 25 years?
Yes.
Okay, got it.
Yes.
So it's that yellowish color gold, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
And then what about the chain?
the, aviator chain.
So was that the typical chains that
they were wearing, aviator chains?
Yes.
Back then, that was the
common, and even to this day.
The younger guys that are flying these,
very high technology aircraft are
wearing the bar link aviator style chain.
Yes.
It's amazing.
And when I've met them at
Elmendorf, air Force Base in Alaska.
They would tell me that, their
grandfathers handed it down to them.
Yes.
And one of them said to me, it's a
legend man, you know, it is pretty cool.
So very cool.
So that's your background.
Now fast forward a bit, you eventually
started Baht Gold, the company.
So can you explain a little bit
more about what you do and what
you provide through your company?
Well, I did gather some knowledge about
the gold business in the late 1990s when
I visited Thailand, and I always thought
that if Americans were more familiar with
high karat gold, that they would certainly
prefer that over the normal 14 karat.
Especially when you look at the price
difference, it's not all that significant.
And so I really thought there might be
some type of a, an arbitrage opportunity
in that or something that I could do.
And then I just put it on a back burner.
And my wife and I lived in, Arizona for
four years before returning to Thailand.
We were in country a couple of
years when we had a large flood.
It was called the Great Floods
of Thailand, 2013, I believe.
Yeah.
And, we live in a two story
building and we were we were
flooded, I think it was about one
meter of water in the first floor.
So we were fortunate because we
had a, a second floor, but we live
in an area that's rather poor.
And a lot of the people
have only like shanties.
Yeah.
And they lost everything, or they moved
out early and carried what they could.
And one thing that we noticed was that,
they would take as many belongings
as they could, but they would leave
their pets, their animals behind.
Yes.
The animals eventually found their
way to higher ground, which was on
rooftops of factories or other houses.
But we knew that their life expectancy
was going to be short because
they were without water or food.
So we put together a program,
mainly my wife was, it was her
idea to put together a program.
And, we used the row boat to go out
and feed and water these animals.
But we wanted to do what we
could for the animals because we
couldn't just watch them pass away.
Yeah.
While it was very effective, what we
did we were able to provide nutrition
and watering, and, and after about a
month, of course, there were some that
didn't make it, but we continued to
take care of the ones that did make it.
Because some of the animals were
really desperate, but we found in
a very short time that the right
nutrition for the animals really
brought them back to health.
With the right imported foods and
the, and the required treatments and
things for them was very expensive.
So I needed to really figure out
a way that I could bring in enough
money to be able to support this.
Because we, we really enjoyed
it and we really wanted to
see these animals survive.
And we wanted to do something
that was more permanent.
So I used my experience and more
importantly, my contacts that I
had made years ago in the business
to, to be able to get into selling
gold on a retail basis online.
And so I was the first website to
sell gold beginning in, actually in
2009 what was it, 2016 is we, when we
incorporated Thai Baht Gold Jewelry,
LTD. but in 20 13 is when we really
put the push in to try to come up
with, a business plan that would help
supplement, this, cat and dog shelter.
Got it.
So the mo I understand now the
motivation behind starting the business.
And so I understand you had the
knowledge in gold and it was
something that sounds like it was
on the back burner for a while.
And then now you had this inspiration
to say, this is the time to do
it, because this will allow us
to fund saving these animals.
That's right.
That's right.
So that's really important.
so when, so do people know if
they buy gold from you, it's not
going to, extravagant things.
it's, it's going to kind
of helping animals, right?
That's correct, yeah.
And I would never have been able to do
that unless I had some form of income
coming in other than what the money
that we had in the bank, you know?
Yeah.
Well, I really, I really like that because
I think, of course, people can donate
to animal shelters and things like this,
which I think is great, but the way I look
at it as you've structured this to where
it's a win-win, because if individuals
are interested in gold, wanna buy gold,
wanna buy Thai gold, which is really a
beautiful yellow color that I really enjoy
myself then they know at least that it's
going to a good cause as well, right?
So it's, it's a win-win there, in my book.
Now I wanna get a little bit more
into some of the questions that people
had about gold, including myself.
So we talked briefly on the fact
that Thai gold seems to have
this distinctive yellow color.
So can you explain a little bit more
about the purity of Thai gold and
maybe the options of purity that are
available here in Thailand for gold?
Sure.
Thai gold is, when you purchase it
in a gold shop, the purity is 96.5%.
The, alloys that are used are
usually silver and copper.
And, it's also available in 24 karat.
And of course Thailand is a
hub for jewelry production.
So, for wholesaling you can get 14
karat, 18 karat, whatever you want,
you know, made in a, in a factory.
But the Thai people generally
purchase 96.5% gold.
They consider 24 karat as
ceremonial type of jewelry.
So that's why there are only a couple
of shops that I know of that sell it.
Got it.
So the most common one, when
you're walking down the street in
Bangkok or around Thailand, you
see these gold shops on the corner.
Chances are they're gonna be
selling primarily the 96.5%.
Yes.
23 karat, right?
Yes.
Got it.
And then what about for people that
aren't familiar with this 23 karat?
Is it soft?
Is it safe to wear?
Is it gonna bend, I mean, or are there
any advantages to the 23 karat purity?
Well, if you talk to any Cobra
pilot, they will probably tell
you that it's very durable.
Because a lot of them still have it
after 40 years, 40 or 50 years, right?
They still have that chain.
But really technically there is a certain
eeling process that happens to the gold
when it's heated and pounded and cooled.
And this toughens it up.
And with the right goldsmith you can make
something that's very durable and very
hard, even though it's high karat and
the, and that's true with 24 karat too.
Yeah.
But if it's a very ornate
piece and the pieces are just
soldered on, then it's very soft.
And it, and it can just flatten out.
So you, you want to avoid that.
But with a regular bar link chain or
a Rolo link or any of the solid core
chains it will last, last many lifetimes.
It might take on scratches,
but it will create a patina.
And it will still be beautiful.
No, absolutely.
it's impervious to anything.
It's gold, it's impervious to salt water
or any chemicals or anything like that.
It's hypoallergenic.
You know, so.
Yeah.
And you also pointed out, I guess the
thickness there, the weight of it, I
guess, would relate to that as well.
So if you got a very
thin, 23 karat gold chain.
Like I, I suppose you'd wanna make sure
it's thick enough that That's right.
It can be strong, right?
That's right.
Because it, it either purities, if
it's a half baht chain or even a
one baht chain it isn't as durable
as something that is two baht.
Right.
And, for many years I never
sold a one baht chain.
I always started it at two, right?
Because two baht or 30.4 grams, it
highlights the, workmanship in the piece.
It's more durable.
It, is just all around
better investment really.
The one baht chains, the, I never really
would see many in the gold shops that
I liked that much because it, they just
were quite small and, so I just sold two.
But then as the price
of gold went up higher.
I looked harder for those chains that
were one baht so I could make a sale.
Right, right, right, right.
You know, so I would, I would only
choose st chains that were solid core.
Mm.
Even now, I, I would say 90% of the chains
that I do sell are solid core chains.
Because those are the most durable.
Got it.
Yeah.
So solid core chains, enough weight that
they're not going to run into any issues.
And to your point, I get that de how
much you can actually afford it changes
as the price continues to go up.
But I had a similar experience to
where I think maybe the first thing I
bought might have been one baht when I
just didn't understand much about it.
But then of course, we traded up
and I think just about everything
we have now is, is too bad or above.
So if you can afford it, it's not just
an upsell, it's that it actually is
probably better off if you can afford it.
Right.
Going with two baht or above.
Now if you're in Bangkok and you,
you look at the cost of these
chains now you know, you're really,
everyone is limited with a budget.
Yeah.
But I also sell in half baht increments.
So even a half baht is, is an improvement.
And, but most people when they
purchase a two baht chain and they
go back home and, they'll say, oh, I
wish I had just gotten a three baht.
A three baht would've been just perfect.
Everyone wants to upgrade
to a slightly heavier chain.
Yeah.
And I think I see a lot of Thai
people doing those upgrades as well.
Right.
As you get wealthier, as you save more
whatever, you might just be incrementally
increasing and trading in your gold,
which is common enough here too.
Well see,
with the Thai people, it's very important
that the chain looks substantial
because, you know, this, this is
part of the prestige of owning gold.
And now there's a, it's kind of
like a double edged sword on that
because for example, now, because
the price of gold is so high.
When you go into a gold shop, 80%
of the gold is what's called puff.
Puff is hollow.
It's a electro forming technique.
You can make gold jewelry
that's just paper thin.
Ah.
And the first thing you'll notice
with puff gold or hollow core
gold is that it's very light.
It feels like a feather.
I thought gold was supposed
to be heavy, you know?
Right.
And, and it's not durable.
It will dent.
It'll, it will break.
But the, on the positive
side, it looks big.
It looks like it's a five
baht, but it's only a two baht.
Right, right.
You see?
Yeah.
Yeah, that makes sense.
It's kind of, I guess you can imagine
a, a real Rolex versus a fake Rolex.
It's that it might look good,
but it's not the same thing.
That's right.
Yeah.
Now another question I got a lot was
some people had fear of purchasing
gold in Thailand and they would say,
oh no, it's only fake gold there.
You have to be careful get
gold from a trusted place like
Switzerland or this or that.
Right.
And I think that brings to the question of
where does Thai gold actually come from?
Most of the Thai gold that's used
in jewelry comes from Thailand,
and it's not from a mine.
It's from people turning in their gold.
So there's this constant change of
people selling gold and buying gold.
And if it wasn't for that more
jewelry, more gold would have to
come from Switzerland, which is where
a lot of the gold does come from.
There is actually a gold mine in
Thailand, but it doesn't produce
enough gold to provide the necessary
amount for the gold jewelry industry.
So really most of the
gold, is just recycled.
So it's melted down occasionally, I guess.
Yeah.
Okay.
Got it.
But that's still, the origin is very
interesting 'cause I wasn't aware
that it was initially imported.
And then to your point, it's
kind of a circular economy of
the gold is very liquid here.
And so if people are buying and
selling, you don't necessarily need
to import a huge amount frequently.
But originally it was
likely imported, correct?
Yes.
Originally, more would've been imported.
But, you know, keep in mind
that this originated from China.
So there are other countries
that have huge gold deposits.
and so we don't really know where
it originated from, but the, the
shops, owners are from China.
And they're just basically sourcing
the necessary amount of gold
that they need to do business.
Got it.
Well, I think it's worth touching
on the baht weight system as well
here because you mentioned, and
we were discussing maybe going
with two baht and above in weight.
Can you maybe expand on that and
say how that weight system works?
so people can better understand it if
they were to walk into a gold shop today?
as far as the weight system,
everything is in baht.
One baht in the gold shops usually, they
don't have it broken down to half bahts.
But if you have a commissioned
goldsmith, you can do whatever you want.
Which I do, and that's how I'm able
to get the one and a half baht, or the
two and a half baht but in a gold shop.
I, I'd like to give an example of what
the procedure would be when you walk in.
Yes, please.
You know to, for the optimum experience.
Yeah.
When you go in keep in mind that
the staff at the Gold Shop would
prefer that you not to see you.
Okay.
Because they don't really sell to
foreigners, and they look at you
and you're a tourist in their eyes.
That means they're gonna have
to speak some English or they're
gonna have to call in one of their
children to speak English with you.
And the whole process is inconvenient
for them when they can be just
selling it to a Thai person.
And a Thai person knows
exactly what they want.
They're not picky, right?
So the foreigner comes in and he has
to try to figure out what he wants
if he only knows the number system.
Neung, song, sam, see, haa.
And he can point at the design he wants.
That, believe it or not, I know that
sounds very simple, but it's effective.
Instead of trying to learn a lot of the
language, as far as what it, what to say,
of course, always be polite and smile
a lot, and then they'll help you more.
But it's an inconvenience for them.
This is not an export item.
This is something that is
made for local consumption.
I've tried to turn it into an export
item because there are different levels
of gold quality, and when I first looked
at gold, it was not an export item.
There were too many little
imperfections and things.
And the westerners are very they're very
picky about, they want it to be pristine,
but they also want it to be handmade
and they want it to be, lower in price.
So these things are, are kind
of hard to really accomplish.
But when the person goes in, if they
were to have an idea of what their
budget is and how much they can afford,
then they can say, say song baht.
And point, and then
you'll get through that.
Got it.
No, that's a great tip.
I mean, I, I think it's really
good to have that perspective.
It's very easy for us to have the
perspective of I'm the customer.
And especially in the Western
world, we're very used to that.
It's like, Hey, like I'm the
one here ready to buy something.
But I like always putting it back
in their perspective of the Gold
Shop owner or the people that
are just working there, they're
usually dealing in very high volume.
They have people coming in and
out, and they probably don't
want a lot of tire kickers.
That are just, maybe this, maybe that.
I don't know what this is.
I don't know what that is.
Well, worse than that,
what, what will happen is.
The, and this is firsthand experience.
Yeah.
Bringing some people to the gold shops.
They think that the mirrors that
are on the walls are for them to put
the chain on and look at themselves.
And those are security mirrors.
You know, so everything is so different
than what their experiences in the
United States or in Europe, that
it's hard for them to adapt to that.
And yeah, they, the sales staff is paid
by the weight of the gold that they sell.
Yeah.
And that's it.
So if you're the un, if you're the
salesperson and you're up next and
in comes the guy from New York, it's
just really probably not gonna be
very profitable for her for the entire
time that she's speaking with him.
Yeah.
That's why they might have that
look of a little bit of frustration.
Oh yeah.
Like, right, because it's not,
it's not a jewelry shop in the
way that we might think of it.
And let's say the US for example.
And I might add that.
In the beginning what was really confusing
for me was I would get waived off at
a lot of shops that I would go to.
Like, no.
And sometimes it, it was
quite rude, you know, like, on
your way, that kind of thing.
And I could never figure it out.
And it was because they
were wholesale shops.
Ah, and the minimum
order was 1 million baht.
Ah, okay.
Okay.
And I'm just a tourist, right?
Yeah.
But no, I'm not, i've just spent
10 million baht across the street,
because I have a wholesale business.
They don't know.
But they don't know.
And they only look at it like we
don't wanna deal with it having to
speak English and they just wave you
off and you, you just can't go in.
Got it.
So that building those relationships
with the Goldsmiths and the wholesalers
and stuff here is very important.
And you've probably, I know I
don't go off the street and try
to find those type of deals.
I mean, I bought gold here, but
it's been at a shop and I of course
go with my wife or my family or my
friends, individuals that can help me
a little bit with the Thai language.
'cause my language ability is not fluent.
And so it's helpful because
then they don't leave me away.
Right.
Yeah.
They, they, they might
trust me a little bit more.
See if they hear a little bit of Thai.
Yeah.
They appreciate that.
And they think that
you've been here a while.
That you didn't just arrive.
Yeah.
You know, and that's
what they're looking for.
Which is good advice to anyone.
definitely learn some words in Thai.
Definitely be polite, over polite.
End with the krap, like at the end
of everything, like go overboard
because the default is gonna be
to not necessarily know who you
are and assume you're a tourist.
Right.
Right.
So, totally fair.
Now, If you are to go into a
reputable shop here in Thailand, are
you fearful that you will get a bad
price and that you will get scammed?
No.
Why not?
because it comes down to a, it's
a generational business for the
family, and they would never take
a chance of losing face or for the
trust to be diminished in any way.
Because it means everything to It's what
their great, great grandfather built.
So to cheat someone.
And be labeled as not to be
trusted would end their business.
Yes.
And then it's also pretty
highly regulated here as well.
Right.
So the pricing structure here and
the prices you see on the windows
there are consistent across shops.
Is that correct?
Yeah.
the Thai Goldsmiths Association,
regulates the price.
Thailand does not have
its own gold market.
But for example, yesterday, I think the
price of gold on my app changed 24 times.
As far as the, going into a
shop and being taken advantage
of or overpaying for something.
The overpayment part might happen, but
let's face it, it would only be like to
you and I, it would be like the most three
or $4 that you might overpay, that you
could have saved maybe someplace else.
So it's really not, not a big deal.
Okay.
So let's use a simple example of let's
say that we wanted a two baht gold chain.
Okay?
And let's pretend that the price today
was 50,000 baht per one baht weight.
So let's assume that I'm gonna
pay about a hundred thousand baht
for this two baht gold weight.
You bring up the point of this
additional fee that you'd be charged.
The labor, or some people
call it the maker's fee.
Okay, so the maker's fee is that the
charge that someone might be charged
a little bit extra for at the shop?
So I'm not gonna pay a hundred
thousand bought on the dot when
I purchase that gold chain.
That's right.
I pay the maker's fee on top.
That's right.
And that isn't a negotiable amount.
Okay.
Okay.
It's not worth negotiating it because
the most that they're going to
reduce it is like a hundred baht.
Okay.
And in your comments on one of the
videos that you did on Thai Gold,
a person mentioned that there is
no vat on gold jewelry in Thailand.
Mm-hmm.
Well, there's VA on all gold
jewelry in Thailand when purchased.
It's just that in some shops they include
it in the price of the maker's charge.
Ah.
And in others it's separate, but
it's technically the, the vat on
it is a very complicated formula
for them to figure out because it
changes when the gold price changes.
So it's hard for them to keep up with it.
So they'll come up with a fixed amount
and they just add it to the labor.
Okay.
But you wouldn't know, I know I pay
that on everything that I purchase.
Good point.
Good point.
So you have to account for VAT
whether it's built in, whether it's
a separate line item, whatever.
It's very little though,
but it's gonna be small.
Now, if you were to purchase this chain
at a, at like, a mall, a shopping mall,
it's very possible that they would
charge you the regular vat, which is 7%.
And I would want to tell your viewers
that you would not want to be purchasing
gold in a shopping center or in a mall
or anything, any place where tourists
generally go because that's when you're
going to be paying that 2000 baht per
baht, maker's fee and a higher vat.
And you're gonna be paying much more than
what you need to pay for the same item.
Got it.
Okay.
Well you've also broken something down
for me, and hopefully we can go through
this now of the different quality
levels and how they're different.
And maybe we'll take one that's not
on this list, which is the buying
from someone on a soi or on a street.
We're gonna not do that.
Right?
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so let's put that off.
Don't do that.
For example, I'll give you
a very special deal on this.
This is a beautiful 23 karat.
Wow.
same color as mine.
Cuban length matches
it perfectly, I think.
Here we go.
And it even fits you.
Okay.
Wow.
So what, what do you think?
Would you, you know, I really
need the money and I'm thinking
about selling that to you.
For the lowest that I could go
on, it would be 5,000, baht five.
It's worth 50.
Yeah.
Easily worth 50 at this weight.
Right?
Yeah.
I mean, and that, yeah.
This is, as you told me ahead
of time, this is not real.
And well, sorry, you can describe it
a little bit more of exactly what it
is, but I will be honest, I am not an
expert in this and I might not know
Well, who is an expert.
Right.
Even I'm not an expert really.
I've just had a lot of
experience in Thailand.
This, everything evolves.
There's something that's going on
today that I'll learn about in a week
and this kind of thing, but this the
true retail of something like this.
As beautiful as it is, is about $35.
Wow.
so if this was made of actual,
solid core, 96.5, this is going to
be a, you know, a $6,000 purchase.
Mm. Wow.
So what I get out of it is there
is a slight lack of density in it.
Mm. It's not as smooth as, real gold.
And, and, but the only way that you
would really know for sure is to have
it tested, like at, the Gemological
Institute of Thailand or something like
that, for you to have definitive you
know, result on whether it's gold or not.
But, but since I deal with gold every
day and I know that this is plated.
Yeah.
You're not gonna find somebody in
Chinatown in an alley selling a lot of
plated gold jewelry for high price because
they would be driven out so quickly.
Right.
Great point.
Right.
Yeah.
Well, so let's then dive into
the different tiers of gold
shops that are available.
Okay.
Putting aside, all the fake
gold or the plated gold So let's
talk about those different tiers
How would you classify them?
Yeah.
Well the Gold Shop is one.
Now Het hang sang would have better
quality than, than maybe another
shop or, or something like that.
Hua Seng Heng is a great, a
great, a gold shop to go to.
They have more variety than most.
The workmanship is excellent.
Their maker's fee is high, very high.
Okay.
Okay.
So if you graduate from that.
Mm-hmm.
Then you're going into something that
would be considered an export item.
Ah.
You know, so that's what I've tried to do
is create, create that intermediary level.
Mm. But the next step would be then
going to 24 karat gold, because there
are different goldsmiths that make 24
karat gold than what, who makes the 96.5.
Mm.
So they have more of an artistic flare in
the 24 karat than you would in the 96.5.
Hmm.
That's why much of the 24 karat
is not based on 15.2 grams.
It can be a random number because
the Goldsmith said it's going
to take more gold to finish it.
Ah, okay.
Okay.
Because that artistic part comes
in, the wor, the really high end
master goldsmith is the one that does
that, and that's why the labor is
so much more expensive on 24 karat.
Interesting.
In the 96.5, you might have an
apprentice that's knocking out 50
to a hundred of these at a time
because he's paid by the weight.
Got it.
There's a totally different,
different quality level there.
And the the ones, the, the
goldsmiths that make 96.5 aren't,
they don't make the 24 karat.
Okay.
And vice versa.
Interesting.
So we need to make that distinction.
And so just to summarize this, the Hoang
hang and some of these other shops that
I see commonly around Thailand right?
Right.
Are a more commoditized market, which
are targeted at typical Thai individuals
that are buying gold regularly.
Yes.
Buying and selling gold regularly.
And that's one sort of category.
It's this commoditized gold.
I think you've told me this before too,
that the craftsmanship of that, it's more
about maybe it's supposed to be durable,
maybe it's supposed to be scalable.
Think of it as a factory that's
kind of running through and we're
always making sure that we can limit
the cost that's going to take to
manufacture, but also ideally keep
it somewhat durable so that it's not
gonna break or something like this.
Yes.
The third level would be in the
shopping malls, but they're the
they're not gold shops that you
find, like in the food court area.
It's behind glass showcases.
And it would be from the
Pranda Group, Goldsmith.
I mean, these are huge
companies and Gold Masters.
Now, when you look at this, it's, it's
a, it's several steps up in quality.
Very elaborate designs, floral designs.
And it's obvious that it's,
A much higher quality.
And of course the maker's
fee for that is very high.
So you're looking at, at something
that might normally be 800
baht per baht to something that
might be 2,400 baht per baht.
Got it.
And that's again, just to clarify, that is
on top of what the baht weight would be.
yes.
It's on top of the weight of the gold.
Okay.
They're a separate thing.
Yeah, right, exactly.
You're gonna always pay the
same price for the gold.
But you're gonna be paying different
prices for the quality of workmanship.
A cheaper, less expensive piece
that's more commoditized is going
to have a maker's fee on top of it,
let's say $10 for ballpark figure.
Right.
But what you're saying is that if you're
going to one of these fancier jewelers
with more intricate details put into it,
you're paying a much higher fee than $10.
You might be paying a hundred dollars.
Okay.
Got it.
So that's the difference there.
And then the last level, the most
expensive would be the Sukhothai jewelry
where the making of one necklace could
take a month and a half because of
the craftsmanship that goes into that.
These are Thailand's best master goldsmith
that make jewelry that is, originally
was made only for the royal family.
And it's very expensive because
of the labor that goes into it.
And you'll see a lot of enameling on it.
And, you know, people worry that the
enameling on the sickle Thai would
come off because it looks like a paint.
Yeah.
But it's not a paint.
It is a, it is an enameling that
is, that is put on permanently, but
in order for it to be permanent,
it has to be on 99.99% gold.
Okay.
If it was put on something lesser
than that, then it might flake off.
Okay.
So Tom, what makes the gold product
that you sell differ than what
someone can buy from a gold shop?
Well, I've tried to, create a product
that bridges the gap between the
mass produced items in a gold shop.
And the more expensive items that you
would find at like Gold Master or the
Pranda Group, which is very high end.
So it's, it's something where I'm
able to commission Goldsmiths and
work with them directly on creating
and even experimenting with different
styles of links and things that
aren't available in gold shops.
Most of the products that I
sell are not in gold shops.
Interesting.
So like it when you say it's, they're
not available, is it different
designs, is it different weights?
I mean, what actually makes it different?
Different link designs.
let's take an example.
If you have an eight inch wrist and you
want to buy a Tiger Link bracelet, you
cannot go into a gold shop and purchase
this because it would be too long.
It would have to be, it
would have to be ordered.
And the gold shop does not order for you.
So, and in, in this case, like
even the terminals on this are sold
separately and made separately.
So something like this is not
going to be, found in a gold shop.
The, one of the re things that I looked
at when I first purchased gold in a gold
shop is I wanted to make sure that the
hallmarks were in place, like the purity
stamp, the maker's mark the factory.
Because when you go into a gold
shop to exchange that for cash, the
first thing that they're going to
do is they're gonna take a loop.
And they're not going
to look for the purity.
They already know the purity.
They're looking for who made it.
Because once they know the maker,
they know that it's legitimate.
Mm-hmm.
That, that it's completely good and then
they'll give you the cash right away.
So that is the way it works in Thailand.
That's why Thai people don't
complain if there isn't a purity
stamp because they know that it
really doesn't mean that much.
What does mean something is the
maker's mark and the factory mark.
I can only imagine how much that
would cost in a jewelry store
Well, you, would never find it
probably in a jewelry store in the us.
And there's some really interesting
reasons for that, I think.
But anyway, I think that my
goal in the beginning was to
create an exportable item.
That people would, would,
think was amazing and would
surpass their expectation.
And the other thing is, is that,
The finishing on a chain, I need
it to be completely finished.
I don't want parts of the bracelet
to be unfinished because it already
maxed out at the weight of 15.16.
Mm-hmm.
Because that, that will happen there.
They don't want to keep, keep polishing
it and losing gold in their, in
their buffing pads and things like
this because it's too expensive.
That's why you cannot find diamond
cut 24K gold chains because nobody
wants to lose that much gold.
So there's a lot of custom
work that can be done for the
discriminating American purchaser.
Right.
You can, you can do all kinds of things.
so for them to go into a gold shop
and purchase something that doesn't
have a hallmark is kind of like nicely
done, but not completely perfect for
them not to have your size because you
have a seven and three quarter inch
wrist and all of them are seven inch.
Or for you to get a barling chain that
is that is like 17 and a quarter inches.
You know, like you can just order
something from you know, somebody
like me or others that do this.
I mean, there's more than me that do it.
I mean, that can actually order something
And then, yeah, you're gonna pay a little
more, but, you're getting what you want,
but you're gonna be having, you're going
to own this for the rest of your life.
why not just, get something
that you really want.
Yes.
No, that's a great point.
Do you have any kind of go-to
recommendations for someone that
doesn't quite know what they want?
They just want a tip
from someone like you?
Well, I, I can only tell
them what I personally like.
What is that?
and you know, and then they
can make their decision.
Men and women both like the same styles.
There's just no it's not like I'm going
to say that a woman should look at these
very delicate looking, small chains
because most women don't buy those.
Mm-hmm.
I, my wife, loves the baring choker.
You know, it's like a four and a half
inch, a four and a half millimeter choker.
And it looks great.
It's very cool looking.
So you spoke about export, right?
So let's imagine that someone does
wanna have some gold exported.
Are there additional fees that people
need to be aware of when they're
purchasing gold or trying to go
outside of Thailand with Thai gold?
A lot's changed since
I started selling gold.
I have always paid for US customs duty.
And, merchandise processing fees.
I've even supplemented the shipping
because I don't like the idea of the
shipping being over a hundred dollars.
It seems like it's a lot to me.
Mm-hmm.
So I always try to keep it below,
but it actually costs me about one
30 just for the shipping via FedEx.
But having said that, times have changed.
And so if we are actually looking
at higher US customs charges
because of enhanced tariffs, well
that's, that's gonna change a lot.
And what's already happening is businesses
that are selling online, and many of
them are not registered type companies,
by the way, you'll notice there's a per
proliferation of online shopping when the
price of gold gets to a certain point.
Mm.
Right.
But what's happening in my opinion, is
there's all of these shortcuts being
taken to keep the price suppressed.
Mm.
And the biggest one is the shipping
and insurance and the duty.
Because there have been companies
that would never pay the duty anyway.
They're not going to agree to pay
the duty now when it might be 15%.
but unless you declare the value of
the item, you will not get insurance.
Now, do you want to purchase a 10 baht
chain or a eight baht chain or something
and just ship it without any insurance?
But the minute that I charge
insurance, I'm gonna be taxed on that.
The full price of the duty.
So what companies are doing is they're
saying, oh, we take care of everything.
We take care of everything.
And then they don't insure it.
They don't have to pay.
In fact, do you realize that FedEx,
DHL, they don't allow gold shipments.
They don't insure gold shipments.
You have to get a third
party insurer to ensure that.
So if you really do have to do some
homework and due diligence into
knowing where are these companies
cutting corners to keep the price low.
I wanna change gears a little
bit back to, again, a common
question that I've been asked.
Let's say that I purchased
gold in the gold shop.
Is it easy for me to sell
that gold back to a gold shop?
Is there a difference between
me selling it to one gold shop
versus selling it to another?
Do they fear that I might
be selling them fake gold?
What other considerations do I
have to keep in mind when selling
gold to back to a gold shop?
you can go to any gold shop and
sell gold that was purchased
from any other gold shop.
They're only gonna look
for the maker's mark.
They all know every maker,
every factory that it was made.
They have no problem with that.
When the Chinese people
come in with gold bars.
It makes 'em really nervous.
Because they don't know exactly
how to test for this fake gold
that is ubiquitous in China now.
gold coins, they're unfamiliar with they
don't want deal take, they don't want
to take the time, they don't want to
take the chance of accepting something,
giving you the cash, and then they
find out later that it was, of a lower
purity or, or some kind of a scam.
See, they're always looking
for scams themselves.
Right.
But no, you, you any gold chain can be
brought to any gold shop and traded.
Now let's assume that someone has
high gold and they're in the states,
they're in the US and they now decided
maybe the price went up and they want
to cash out maybe some of that profit.
How would they go about selling
the Thai gold in the us?
The, the best way would be to try to
sell thet baht chain retail yourself,
like on Reddit or on some other
social media site because there's
a great demand for baht chains.
a lot of people know about them now.
And so you would not have to be
giving up a lot of money or anything
and selling it to an individual.
The second thing would be to,
simply contact a refinery.
I refer people to Manhattan
Refinery in New York.
Mm-hmm.
They're honest.
They, you can speak with Andrew there, and
they will set you up and how to ship the
to them, and they can send a check to you.
I think it's within 24 hours at
spot spot minus something, but
then you're only getting spot.
But if you sell it as a chain.
You could probably get more than, than
spot because it's about gold chain.
Right.
That's what I, but you would not probably
be able to send this back to Thailand, to
the seller, even though people offer these
very grand return policies and you know,
if you're, if you send it back anytime.
The problem is, is that the way
that the Thai government's gonna
look at it is that it's doable.
And the import duty on
gold and Thailand is 7%.
So if you, in, if you wanna ensure
that from the United States and send
it to Thailand, the person on the
other side is going to be billed 7%.
So they're gonna charge you for that.
Okay.
Got it.
so given the fact that we have high
purity gold, that there is demand for
option number one is sell it based
off the value that comes from the nice
details that you're getting, right?
If you showed me some, some bracelets,
a bracelet here that just beautiful.
I can imagine that someone that wants,
that would pay a premium for it.
But it's almost like the worst
case scenario you're gonna get
a little bit less than spot.
Maybe if you just said, use
a couple of the options.
So you have options available to you.
Yes, you do.
Okay, so I'm just curious, I know we've
talked a lot about gold today, but
some people had questions about silver.
And I was curious, is silver something
that you can purchase in Thailand?
yes.
You can actually purchase, silver bars
from a company by the name of Bowen.
You can purchase in a variety of
different weights, but I think that
the best deal is purchasing in the.
A kilogram bars.
This company charges a 7% VA upfront.
So you have to get, your investment
has to get beyond 7% and then,
then you're into the making
money on the, on the investment.
But they will deliver the
bars to you at your door.
And they'll they'll pick
them up when you wanna sell.
It's very convenient.
But I think some people are not
used to paying a tax on silver.
And it is 7%, but considering
the potential of, of where silver
could go to I think that could
you know, work out quite well.
I think you mentioned offline
with me as well, the Sukhothai.
They are known for silver
or producing silver here.
Yes.
Thailand is, is.
Very well known for silver.
This is an example of Sukhothai.
Highly detailed and, made in
only one place in Thailand.
It's in Sukhothai, which used to be a
ca the capital of Thailand long ago.
So this is very famous.
It's purchased by Bob just like gold.
And, and similarly to Sukhothai Gold,
it takes a long time to make each piece.
That's beautiful.
But they're really really quite gorgeous
and it's all, it's all, pure silver.
That's why the enameling does not, will
not come off of this because it's applied.
The enameling is applied to
pure silver in this case.
Wow.
Oh,
that
is beautiful.
People were asking about
selling, silver coins.
Let's imagine you have a, a gold,
or sorry, a silver eagle or you have
some Canadian coins or whatever,
so, so international gold or silver.
Do you think that's something that's
a good idea to sell in Thailand?
Can you go into a gold shop
and say, I've got my gold
eagle, or my silver Eagle coin?
Is that reasonable?
It might be.
If it was gold, it might be doable.
Because there are some gold shops
that actually collect gold coins.
'cause it's not that common in Thailand.
Everybody wants something
they can't readily get.
when it comes to silver I don't
think that there's any value.
It's almost like if you had a, if 18
karat gold ring that you wanted to trade
in, it's just not really worth there.
Their time to refine that.
Okay.
No worries.
Well, you've been incredibly
generous with your time.
Tom, I'm just curious, is there anything
that I didn't ask you that you wish I had?
There is one thing I thought
perhaps you would ask.
Why is it that jewelry stores in
the United States or elsewhere don't
sell a high karat gold product.
That would be a question
that, that I would ask.
And I think that the answer to that
is that there's such value in high
carrot gold today that it would compete
directly with the product that they're
selling in their shops, and they would
never be able to price the two where
they could make profit from both.
If you have 23 karat gold
in a jewelry store, everyone
would gravitate toward that.
And it would make all of the 14
karat and 18 karat look pale in
comparison to both price workmanship.
You know, this is something
that the jewelry market in
the US does not want to see.
And the same is true with gemstones.
Because when you go into a jewelry
store in gemstones, most all of the
jewelry is accented with diamonds.
And this is considered to be valuable.
But in Thailand, we know that the
price of diamonds is very low.
Now it's very low.
So the value of 14 karat gold and 18 karat
gold does is just not adequate enough
to compete with the high karat gold.
What a great point.
I think it does speak to the fact that you
can have something very special when you
purchase these higher purity golds because
to your point, the jeweler, the jewelers
and the jewelry shops in the US might
not have that incentive to provide it.
But if you're aware of it, by watching
videos like this right then you can have
something really special that really
should be very highly sought after.
I spoke with a, jeweler in
california, I was interested in
getting the product into, their shop.
and keep in mind that I've been selling
my product to AAFES, which is used to be
called the px, AAFES Air Force, exchanges
in the United States, for six years.
So my product is being sold there.
But I talked to this jeweler who said
that if he were to buy the, high karat
gold product from Thailand, he'd have
to reprice everything in his shop.
Either that or he'd have to convert
completely to high karat gold because
there wouldn't be an, it would
be things being com it would be
competing against yourself basically.
But in AAFES, the, thing that they did
not consider, Scott, was selling gold
as an investment, because when you
sell gold as an investment, you can't
mark it up three times and sell it
like it's fashion jewelry, people are
purchasing it at the lowest possible
margin, so it will appreciate in time.
And what did AAFES do at all 27 locations?
They marked it up three times.
So they're, they're trying to sell a
one baht chain right, that I'm selling
for say $1,850 for over $3,400 per baht.
Wow.
It's almost like the get the best kept
secret, those who know know, right?
That's right.
that's right.
I mean, you have all of these service
numbers looking at gold in the AAFES
that they can easily find cheaper
online on their phone within a minute.
And so the sales that the, the
sales are, are maybe great as an
impulse item in the beginning, but
then they just slowly fade off to,
well, that wasn't such a good idea.
But in reality it's a great idea.
Look what, what Costco has done.
They're selling the bars and, and
yeah, they're not selling, they're
selling them at Costco prices.
Right.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Now again, you've been so
generous with your time.
I'd like to make sure that the viewers
know the best way to either learn more
about the products that you sell, learn
more about your business, and learn
more where they can, about your channel.
'Cause I understand you also
have a YouTube channel, so go
ahead and, share with them.
Yes.
I hope to continue with my
YouTube channel at 23KGold.
And my website is 23kgold.com.
Nice.
It was very nice meeting you today.