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THE podcast for navigating all things midlife with honesty, humor, and heart
Heidi (00:01)
Okay, awesome. We'll dive in. Yeah, this is ⁓ Welcome to Evolving Together, the podcast for all things midlife. This is where we navigate the minutia and the really hard stuff that we didn't even see coming with heart and humor and honesty and great conversations about what's really going on and how we're feeling. And I have with me Susan, who is my
Susan (00:03)
Yeah.
Heidi (00:30)
very, very dear friend, best friend for over 35 years, former college roommate. We go way back and ⁓ we talk about all sorts of things. And one of the topics that comes up, and I know that you think about this, everybody listening has thought about this at one time or another, no matter how old you are, is facing our own mortality. And there's something about midlife that really, I feel,
triggers that. ⁓ Other things do too, obviously losing losing somebody that you love. But when we hit midlife, we suddenly realize that there's potentially more years behind us than ahead of us. And it makes us question a lot of things. It really is, it can be a real shakeup. It can also be very grounding. So Susan is here and we're gonna have a little chat about ⁓ facing our own mortality.
and what that looks like and how it feels. Hi Susan.
Susan (01:32)
Yeah, hi, hello, thank you for having me back. Yeah, my gosh, so I've been thinking about this a lot recently ⁓ and it actually started several months ago and actually you and I coincidentally were both going through our whole will and trust thing, remember? Right, right? ⁓
Heidi (01:35)
Yes, always. You'll be back many times, I'm sure, but...
Oh, right. Yes. Yeah. And I haven't finished mine. I was the one that said we have to do this and we're going to finish this before before summer of last year because I had to do that stuff for my mom because my mom has dementia and she moved in with my husband and me. And I was like, OK, these are the things we have to have. I didn't do it. And I'm working on it. I'm working on it. I'm working on it.
Susan (02:13)
Yeah.
Yeah. All right. Well, you're...
You're working on it. You're working on it. So that whole process, right? ⁓ So getting that done. And then I went ahead and I did go ahead and buy that knock box, right? Your next of kin box. You're making your own. ⁓ But I highly recommend organizing your life and all your important documents, however you want to do it. But anyway, but the point is I'm starting to organize, you know, all my passwords and all of that stuff, right?
Heidi (02:37)
Ooh.
Susan (02:53)
So of course all of this is you're doing it to prepare for your imminent death, whenever that will be, which is, you know, there weighing in the back of your mind as you're trying to be practical and organizing, you know, your life to make it ideally right easier for your children, right?
Heidi (03:00)
Right.
Right, well it's gonna happen at some point, so why not? Right.
Susan (03:14)
That's right, right? So I want to make it easier for them. ⁓ But aside from the practicalities of my mortality, ⁓ I've been thinking more about spirituality.
You know, you just through stories and movies and whatever, literature, it's very common, right, to as you age to start thinking about your faith. For a lot of people, it draws them closer to their faith. If you're a person who has always questioned your faith or maybe did not even believe in God, maybe you start thinking about, is there a God?
happens when I die. know, like that whole internal dialogue that you have around what happens when I die, you know, and all of that. I was ruminating over that and thinking about that and I've always been a big science geek. ⁓
So, and I was raised Christian. ⁓ Actually, my husband comes from a very Christian upbringing. has ⁓ both of his sisters are married to pastors and his parents also work for the church, for one of the churches where his one sister and brother-in-law are pastors. Anyway, my point being is I have grown up around and have been surrounded by
people who have a lot of deep faith. And I also have had my own spiritual journey and would try to look for a place, a church where I could find fellowship and connection and ⁓ I'm still looking. But the point of this is,
The more I thought about my own mortality, I actually found myself.
I guess.
not getting closer to God, but actually kind of going the other way and more, not that it was opposite, but it was maybe kind of like adjacent, right? So I'm not saying I'm atheist and I'm not saying that there isn't a God and all of that. I'm saying your spirituality is your own personal spirituality and your own personal journey. ⁓ But I've actually kind of liked the idea, frankly, that we are
are children of the universe because we are like what is in us is are actually elements that are found in the universe. Like you go anywhere physically like our atoms carbon and all of the elements that make us up are universal and from the cosmos that I actually found it really
Heidi (06:11)
Yeah, like physically, Carbon and yeah.
Susan (06:24)
profound to think that I'm actually a part of the cosmos and that in a way like the universe lives in me. The cosmos lives in me. And to me that kind of gave me peace and in that sort of thought process and I love the idea of it's not just the science behind it, but it's also the
Heidi (06:31)
Yeah.
That's interesting. Yeah.
Susan (06:52)
It's like so infinite, right? I mean the universe is infinite. And imagine that that infinity, or what is there another word like infinitum? No, I don't know. Infinity lives in us. And I just, love that. It's very real. It's very tangible. It is.
Heidi (07:10)
It could also be considered everlasting life. mean, there's a lot of ways to look at that. think, yeah.
Susan (07:17)
And then recently there's been this art that's, I read a lot of science articles. And there was this one that I read recently, our consciousness. And also interviews too, I like to watch other interviews of people talking about this kind of stuff. just, we are,
like our consciousness, like we are electrical signals, right? I mean, the whole idea of our nervous system, right? We are basically electricity. We are energy. We have consciousness. I think that ⁓ we don't know. We don't have all of the answers. And just because we don't know and we don't have all of the answers doesn't mean we necessarily need to give it up to a divine being who has all the answers. I think it's okay that we can rest and accept that
if we don't know something, that that's okay. Like who are we as humans to think that just because we don't, that things can only exist within our own ability to comprehend it. Do you know what I mean? That like just because we can't scientifically prove something, you know, our consciousness, what happens to us, our soul, like that kind of stuff. I, I.
I think that there's probably more than what we realize. And I don't necessarily ascribe to the fact that it has to belong to a divine being. I think it could also potentially have an answer somewhere in science. you know.
Heidi (08:49)
Yeah, mean, yeah, I what I think is typically it seems like there's an arc when it comes to spirituality. You know, when teenagers, they push back on what they were raised with and then, you know, they find some, know, they go back to their roots and then, know, midlife comes around. And I'm not sure because I don't I haven't really talked to a lot of people in midlife about their spirituality, but I know that people do
Susan (09:03)
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (09:19)
find their own way, God, universe, whatever you want to call it, they start, well we start to question a lot of things in midlife because things that worked in the past don't work anymore and I don't mean just spiritual beliefs and things like that. But then there's also the arc of the end of life where people who have been hardcore atheists all of a sudden are like, I'm dying and I'm afraid and then they become
Susan (09:23)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm. Right.
Heidi (09:48)
very religious or spiritually connected at the end. And then you also have the people that have been that way, very religious, and then they get to a point where they start to, within the confines of particular religions, it just doesn't feed their spirit anymore and they either change religions or they just become more spiritual versus religious. And I just think it's so interesting because
Susan (09:49)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (10:17)
I don't know who said it. Actually, this might have been a conversation that you and I had many, many years ago. I feel like it might have been, that there's all these different religions and all these different paths to spirituality, and they're necessary because we don't all speak the same language. But they all ultimately bring us back to the self.
Susan (10:23)
Ha ha ha ha.
Mm-hmm.
Right, yeah, yeah.
Heidi (10:46)
you know, the soul and the spirit. And I heard somebody describe the, let me think here. The soul is the, the soul is the individual embodiment of the energy and the spirit is the collective. can't remember what it was, but it was, it was really interesting. And I was like, that's an interesting way to look at it. I hadn't really thought about that, but there's just a lot of things that, you know, we ha I mean, my sister-in-law,
Susan (10:59)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Heidi (11:13)
last year, no, not last year, now it's already been two years ago when she was diagnosed and with a really rare and aggressive cancer that was in February. I was actually at your house when I got that, I got, well, they didn't know at that time what it was, but I knew in my heart, I knew that it was not good. just, I wasn't going to the darkest places out of doom. I just felt, I felt it. And I questioned everything.
Susan (11:29)
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (11:43)
you know, how does this vibrant person go from living and living her best life to just deteriorating so quickly and then and then transitioning and passing on within less than a year. ⁓ But you just start to question everything. And yeah, I think. I don't know, midlife, midlife, it's like. It brings up a lot of stuff and.
Susan (12:06)
Yeah, yeah. And I'm just speaking for myself, right? Because I, as I was thinking about all of this.
Part of me did kind of think that I would get closer to God, honestly. I thought that my spiritual path would be a little bit more traditional in that way because of the context that I was sharing, right? Because I grew up in it. ⁓ And yes, you're right, I did go through a period where I rejected it, but through that rejection, I was curious about all of the other religions, right? I mean, there's so many different belief systems out there, right? It's all so fascinating.
⁓ And I guess I was a little surprised that I didn't actually and that I kind of, that I developed more strongly this alignment, this, I don't want to call it a belief, but just a stance that is much more rooted in science and that that even in itself is very, ⁓
know, calming for me. Like it doesn't, just because I lean more into the science of my existence doesn't mean that I, ⁓ that I'm just sort of analytical, right? That I don't have any feeling or emotion about it. I do, in fact. I feel a real connection ⁓ about that. And, ⁓
Heidi (13:30)
Mm-hmm.
Susan (13:40)
And that's just me, you know, like, and if other people, you know, kind of think that's weird, I don't, you know, that's fine. You know, but the more I learn about and read about, you know, quantum mechanics and string theory and just the fact that there's so many things that we just don't know and that what's so great about science is science is constantly questioning itself to try to find the answer, right?
and that there's some level of acceptance or comfort or respect in science to not know. Like that's okay if we don't know and if you can discover what's not known, I just like that whole scientific sort of questioning and process. ⁓
Heidi (14:28)
Yeah. Well, I grew up, I grew up in a very scientific questioning environment. So it was, you know, I was always analyzing and trying to figure things out. I think one thing that's been interesting for me is that as I've gotten older, I have much more compassion and acceptance of all beliefs. Whereas before I was
Susan (14:33)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yes.
Heidi (14:56)
I hated to admit it, but I think I was a little judgy about certain religions and non-religions. If I met somebody and I found out they were atheists, I'd think, well, they don't have a soul. How do you not believe in anything? I would be so judgy. But I'm also realizing that it's a journey for every individual. And while someone might be born into,
Susan (14:59)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (15:26)
a Catholic family, they might go through all these twists and turns and end up deciding that Buddhism is right for them or vice versa. And I think having that grace for holding that space for people to explore and to be who they are and they're seeking has been really.
Susan (15:41)
Yes.
Heidi (15:53)
a gift for me because I know I was judging people. I didn't want to admit it. You know, if they would share something with me that they were a particular religion or they a particular sect of a particular religion. And it's hard because you think of all you have to you mention Jehovah's Witness or you mention ⁓ certain sects, you're like people instantly people pull back unless they are of that. You know, what is it? The ones that knock on the doors, the ⁓
Susan (15:56)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Heidi (16:22)
Is that Jehovah's Witness? Yeah, they knock on the, and I know, yeah. And you're just kind of, but they have their journey. That doesn't mean I got to open the door and listen to them, but that's their journey. And who's to say in 20 years from now, that same person isn't going to completely reject that or maybe embrace it even more, or they're just humans, just humans figuring it out and...
Susan (16:24)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Right. Right.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Heidi (16:51)
I feel like at this age, I don't care. I don't care. It's like, you do you, you believe and we can have a conversation about it. We can grow within it and have that respect and that love and just be, it has nothing to do with me. And that's liberation.
Susan (17:06)
Mm-hmm.
Right, right, and you know, yes, yes, and that's actually, believe it or not, this thought process that I've been going through, right, ⁓ has actually helped me become more accepting, just like what you were saying, ⁓ accepting of all the other beliefs because,
Just like you said, ⁓ what you want to believe as an individual, whatever religion, spirituality, whatever it is, ⁓ that's a belief, right? And beliefs are personal, right? Science is...
if you're a person that believes in science, science is fact. but science, you know, based on facts, right? Science explains so much of our world and leave it open ⁓ in the universe, right? ⁓ And so I guess my one caveat would be like, as long as you aren't taking your beliefs to try to explain the physical world in which science has already proved
Heidi (18:01)
I don't know how you can, but yeah.
Susan (18:28)
like let's try to keep a little separation there you know it's like your beliefs are your beliefs don't put it into my science you know and and I was so but I so I can respect that right if that helps you live a fuller life ⁓ and be a kinder person then believe in what you need to believe
Heidi (18:40)
Yeah, well, and beliefs are not, yeah, they're not tangible and,
Susan (18:58)
⁓ And then something you said that I kept wanting to go back to is recognizing that you have more years behind us, right, behind you than ahead of you. ⁓ I actually counted, right? So I'm like, all right, so let's say I live to the average age, you know, female, 80, right, 80. Let's just use that, right? So that's.
Heidi (19:21)
hope it's older than that, well, yeah, average. yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Susan (19:24)
Average, Average. And also, yeah, just average and still vital. I'd like to think in my 80s I'd still be pretty vital, right? But that's only, not to give away my age, not that it's a secret, but 22 years or something like that, 20-some years. And that's actually not a lot, right? 20, like you have to, that's,
Heidi (19:33)
Right, same.
Yes.
Susan (19:50)
That's 22 Christmases, 22 birthdays, know, this or that, 22 things. 22 is not a lot, like, you know.
Heidi (20:02)
And how do you, I think what comes up too is how do you want to live those years? And that hit me, mean, once I got through the deep, deep, deep, deep grief of losing my sister-in-law.
When something came over me that I, I mean, I, you know, I get so emotional. I can't help but get emotional. Something came over me and I remember thinking, well, shit, I got these years left. You know, she didn't get those years. So, so I need to honor whatever I have. Like, how can I make the most of those years? Because I certainly didn't look at life that way when I was younger. You know, you think you have forever and then you get, you know, you get to where we are and we're like,
Susan (20:23)
Yeah.
Mm-mm. Mm-hmm.
Heidi (20:49)
damn, we might have 20 years, maybe 30, you know, if we eat really well and to exercise, you know, it's like, that is the age of our children. So we have potentially another, not transition, another segment of our lives to live, another full life. ⁓ You know, I think of like our, you know, we are young 20s and teens, we're figuring things out. And then we have the,
Susan (21:09)
Yes. Yeah.
Heidi (21:18)
the 20s and 30s where we may have families or careers or whatever. And then we have midlife, but then we have this other that comes after midlife, this whole potentially rich time to do any number of things, as long as we have our health. That's the big thing. We have to have our mind and our body strong. How do we want to live those years? Like intentionally live and not just kind of skate through and be like, you know, this.
Susan (21:35)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (21:47)
this is happening and I didn't really choose it, but I mean, that's obviously where the health issues come up. You know, we want to, we don't, we lose choice when we lose our health, but assuming that we can maintain good health, you know, how do I intentionally want to live those lives? How do I want to serve? How do I want to show up? And that to me was so big and it was so much less about what other people are doing and what other people think about me. I love.
Susan (21:52)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (22:16)
getting older, I do not give a damn about what other people's opinions are of me. It is the most liberating feeling, but I do give a damn about how I want to show up and how I want to serve and how can I make the most impact with the years that I have left. And it's all mixed in there because I do believe in all the different religions and things that I've gone through in my life. I've always believed that we are here.
Susan (22:23)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Heidi (22:47)
to serve each other, getting emotional. Now that we're here to serve each other and to walk each other home, help each other through the tough stuff in whatever ways that we are given those gifts to do that, it's different for everybody. I mean, that's, you know.
Susan (23:01)
my gosh, yeah. mean, I was actually just watching a show this morning and that was their theme. Like, what is our purpose here on earth? I mean, it's to serve each other. It's to be of service to one another, ⁓ which is what you're doing with this podcast.
Heidi (23:11)
Yeah. Yeah. I really, yeah. I believe that. I think that's, yes. And that was like the, that was the culmination of all these things that I'd been working towards. thought that's to me so important because, you know, you can have money, you can have good health, you can have opportunities, but when you, when you look at, step back and look at the big picture,
What are the most rewarding things in your life and have been consistently throughout? It's not, well, I did love my new car when I first got it. I'd never had a brand new car when I got it and it's four years old now and I'm still appreciative of that car. I love my car and I appreciate it. But it's not those, you know, it's the relationships and it's the one-on-one time that we get from each other and helping each other to laugh or to figure things out.
Susan (23:46)
It's okay. Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (24:06)
To me, it's those relationships and are we helping to raise the vibration of people around us in some way, whether it's doing something physical for them or something just holding space for them. we got a little off track with, but it's not really off track, I don't think, because I think it's all connected. How much stuff comes up at this time of our lives is complex and there's a lot of layers.
Susan (24:14)
Mm-hmm.
It's not. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Well, and it's it's we're not off track, right? Because this is supposed to be about, you know, talking about our mortality. When we talk about our mortality, we talk about the years ahead of us, as we were saying, which are fewer than what was behind us. And it actually connects very, very nicely, I think, to one of the other topics we talked about in one of your other podcasts around, you know, having adult children at home, you know, because when you're thinking about how do you want to live your life moving, you know, with what you have
Heidi (24:47)
Yeah.
Susan (25:03)
left and you have adult children at home, ⁓ know, where's, I think the questions to ask yourself, right, is, you know, why if you want them to launch, you know, yes, that's good, but if they're not launching and things are taking a little bit longer or your children are struggling or the environment isn't as supportive as it was when we were growing up, ⁓
I think it's okay to just sort of sit in it and that's just part of the life that you're, you know what I mean, like you're living. I mean, if you have 22 years left and you have five of those, happen to have young adults at home, that's okay. Do you know what I mean? It's not like you're losing anything, right? They do, yeah.
Heidi (25:50)
Yeah, yeah. No, and those five years go fast. go, yeah, I'll be doing an episode on adult, ⁓ on parents moving in with you. I mean, where that I think is it called the sandwich generation or something ⁓ where a parent will come and live with you and your family. And that happened with me last year. And that has been.
Susan (26:05)
Yes!
yeah.
Heidi (26:20)
talk about a window into mortality of aging, holy shit, that has rocked my world in not all bad ways, but definitely some real tough areas because I see my mom who is 81 and she's obviously got potentially less years than I do and.
Susan (26:24)
Mmm, yeah, yeah.
Heidi (26:46)
She's not going to live. She's not thinking like, I might have another 22 years. She's not going to be 100. She's not going to live. You know, the longevity on her side of the family isn't, you know, into the late 90s or anything like that. But I look at how she's aging and I think I don't want to age like that. I want to. She has dementia. She has early onset dementia. I don't know how early it is, but I want to have my mind intact.
I want to be able to drive. want to, and if I can't drive, I want to know how to use an Uber. I want to have my wits about me and knowledge to use technology to keep my autonomy and my freedom. And I want to be physically strong. I don't want someone to have to open a jar for me or I want to be able to go upstairs. And so I'm seeing this whole, like how are the rest of her years going to look like? You can't help but.
Susan (27:18)
Right.
Heidi (27:41)
look at things differently when you're around people of different stages. that has that's also been one of the reasons I wanted to start the podcast because I'm like, well, I got to be at home. I can't just I can't be out and about. I can't work a full time job outside. Even a part time job would be difficult outside the house. And I thought this is something I can do from home. I can be productive. I can do something good while still caring for her because I don't want to just ditch her and be like, bye.
Susan (27:45)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Right.
Heidi (28:11)
You know, we do our classes and we do our things, but it's a reminder every day, all through the day, that this is what aging looks like. And how our lives are going to wrap up, we don't know. You know, nobody knows. Nobody, it could be tomorrow. That's why I have my, if I die or if I go missing folder.
Susan (28:21)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, ⁓
Yeah? Okay. The Go Missing folder. That's a good one. That is really smart.
Heidi (28:37)
It's a good idea. It's a good idea. It's another reason to use like tracking devices or like 360 because you never know. but it's something that you, we're all going to need it at some, at one point or another, either, either I'm going to need it for someone else or they're going to need it for me. So.
Susan (28:41)
Okay, okay. You never know.
my gosh, I haven't even thought of that. And that actually makes me think about that, along with what you said about the sandwich generation or whatever. ⁓ I thought about that too briefly about my aging as I get like your mother's age, right? Where are my children in this scene? Right? Where are they? Like.
Heidi (29:02)
me.
Mm, I know.
Susan (29:18)
And I mean, not that I have any expectation. I haven't really spent a lot of time thinking about it really. Maybe that's a whole nother podcast is what are our expectations of our older children in our aging. ⁓
part of me doesn't want to be a burden, ⁓ Like what you're doing and what my friend, know, Nikki, what she's doing and, you know, so many people ⁓ who are bringing their parents into their home, right, to care for them as they age.
Is that a generational thing? is that our, is that a universal mindset of our generation where that's kind of like a thing? But then our kids, what's their thing? Like am I gonna go to a home? Are they gonna want me in? I would like to be, like you said, as independent as long as I can, aging in place. I've heard of that expression, right, aging in place. But are my kids gonna be even nearby? Are they gonna be in another state?
Heidi (29:58)
It's a thing. It's a thing.
Right.
Susan (30:20)
Are they even gonna care? Like to the degree of like the way you're caring for your mother and planning and thinking, anticipating, organizing. It's so weird. Yeah.
Heidi (30:28)
Mm-hmm.
It's a lot. It's a lot. mean, I think
It's almost like you just get finished with child raising and then all of a sudden your parents are there. So it's like you don't get that mid life where you're like, woo, I'm free. I had about a few months of it.
Susan (30:42)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, like I'm the other podcast I was telling you, I said, I think I had like three or four months of real empty nester and then that was it. Yeah, like that was it.
Heidi (30:58)
Yeah. Yeah. And then they come back. it's yeah. And I don't know. mean, I'm grateful, though, that she's here. It doesn't mean it's easy. And there will be a time potentially where she's not here anymore. And I will still be young enough to be like, OK, I'm going to have another reinvention, another transition that I can choose something different. But I think that. It's it's not something I don't.
Susan (31:06)
Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Heidi (31:26)
I think people want to plan for it. I do genuinely think there's something, there's nothing wrong with planning for getting older. And this is, this is probably, like you said, another whole topic and maybe I'll end up, we'll discuss this again later. Maybe I'll just condense this into one, but it's, ⁓ I've often heard that it's the child you did, you least expected that ends up taking care of you.
Susan (31:29)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I've heard that. Were we together when we talked about that or something? yes, yeah, so I, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I of course immediately went and thought about, you know, my children. Who did you think of?
Heidi (31:53)
Probably, probably we have these conversations. Yeah.
Well, it's funny because my youngest is the most. He's the least fuzzy, you know, my older son will come up and ask for a hug and is very affectionate. And we talk almost every day, even since he's been in Tenerife for the past nine months. We talk almost every day on the phone. We text and we talk. And sometimes that's the first thing in my morning because he's six or seven hours ahead of me.
Susan (32:12)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
Heidi (32:32)
Now my younger son will call and talk too, but he's not, he will never come up to me and say, mom, can I have a hug? He won't, but he is, he is really good with gross things like bandages and blood and bruises, like, like he should have been a medic in the army. Seriously, he can handle all that stuff. So I don't know. And then my daughter, I mean, she's amazing and attentive and loving and would literally do anything for me.
Susan (32:46)
hahahaha ⁓
Heidi (33:01)
Would she end up taking care? I don't know. I mean, she could end up being impatient with me like I get with my mom. I mean, I don't even know. It's hard to say. I think any of them would have the capability of doing it, but who would be close enough who would have the financial means and the time? Because it's so time consuming. Like I said, I cannot get a job outside the house unless I have someone to take her to her appointments, take her to exercise and do those things because
Susan (33:08)
Yeah, know, isn't it crazy?
Heidi (33:30)
Otherwise she would just end up sitting at home in her chair on her phone or watching TV and then she would decline very quickly. She's better off now than she was a year ago when she first moved in. And that is from that constant care. So for me to work outside the home right now would be so stressful on everybody and it would shorten her life. yeah, I don't know. But both my brothers would be fully capable of taking care of her and would.
Susan (33:32)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (34:00)
It just worked out that we all decided that this was the best situation, you know, with all the things considered, we agreed and my husband was actually was his idea. ⁓ So I don't know who would take care of me. I mean, I know people get insurance and things for stuff like that. My dad had insurance that he could, he could live at home. could, he could get the care should he become too disabled or too sick. He could stay at home and basically die at home.
Susan (34:06)
Mm-hmm.
I know, I...
Yeah.
Heidi (34:29)
And then I find out that, you know, his wife didn't use that insurance and let him die in the hospital than the nursing home. But that's another whole story. ⁓ Yeah, real bitch
Susan (34:39)
That's terrible. That is just terrible. ⁓ Yeah, I don't know. When I think about, back to that question, I don't know. I don't have the answer either for any of my kids. I got...
Heidi (34:48)
I mean, I never thought about that stuff. To me, I always figured I would just skate right along till the end and, you know.
Susan (34:56)
That's the kind of what I thought too, right? thought, I mean, that's why I married a younger man. I told him, I kept telling him when we got married, I said, first, do you realize you are my retirement plan? And B, do you realize you're also going to be taking care of me when I die at age? Because I will die before you because you are much younger. And then, then,
Heidi (35:01)
There you go.
Hahaha
Susan (35:19)
So I actually would hate the fact that he died before me because I'm not ready for that in my head. He needs to outlive me.
Heidi (35:23)
Yeah, yeah. The thing is that we just don't Right. We hope for the best plan for the worst. And I think that's the thing with insurance and things like that. But I think it's good to talk about it as early and as often because not like we don't want to live there in that world. But if we don't have those conversations now when we're young and we can talk about it, it's much harder when it actually comes up. Had my husband and I not talked about my mom moving in with us.
Susan (35:30)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
No, right.
Heidi (35:51)
Almost it was actually a couple of years ago when she first told me that she was having some memory issues. I don't think I thought, oh, that's crazy. I don't know where she would go. It never occurred to me that she would be here. And so, yeah. And so because we were able to talk about it, it wasn't it wasn't that last minute panic. What are we going to do? I guess I in the back of my mind, I started getting more comfortable with the idea so that it wasn't like a big
Susan (36:01)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm, interesting, interesting.
Right.
Yeah, right, right. ⁓ my gosh, and you just, and you just made me think of something too, is like, ⁓ as we're talking and I said that last thing about my husband, ⁓ like who's gonna take care of him? Okay, so I die first. Now he's old, older, right, old. I mean he's aging, right? So.
Heidi (36:21)
you know, hit upside the head as much as, less of a hit upside the head.
Hmm.
Susan (36:46)
Like, I was thinking about like, then his kids, like, would one of his kids, like, who would take care of him? Would one of my kids? I mean, so, yeah, I mean, I'm, that would be freaking irony, yeah.
Heidi (36:53)
Never know.
The irony would be if your youngest took care of them. You never know. You never know though. mean, people grow up and they mature and they have skills that they don't even know they have until they have to put them into action.
Susan (37:10)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's, yeah, this mortality thing is, you know.
Heidi (37:16)
It's... That's it.
Susan (37:17)
Yeah, but I like I kind of like it though. It does actually give me a sense of security. Like, all right, I'm going to be cremated. I'm going to be like that. You're like, you know what I mean? I kind of like the planner, right? We're planners. There's something kind of soothing about having at least some sort of outline, right? Something that you kind of have a little certainty for the uncertain, right?
Heidi (37:27)
Yeah.
you
Right, yeah, something.
⁓ I just had a thought. It's not unlike a birth plan. I just thought of that. Yes. And it's kind of like we can have a whole topic on, you know, the end of life plan or the birth plan. I mean, because they say, you know, when you come into this world and when you leave, you're very similar. You know, the infant and the. The rebirth plan. ⁓ I think we might have to have a topic on the rebirth plan. I like that.
Susan (37:45)
yes! ⁓ that's perfect! Yeah, yeah.
Yeah!
Yeah, what if you call it like the rebirth, the rebirth plan.
Yes, yes, yes, yeah. I will say though, ⁓ ever since I was, I mean, 20s probably, thinking about death, not that I did, I did not ruminate about death, but I would have these thoughts like, ⁓ well, when I die, right, like those, when I die, so.
Heidi (38:29)
Yeah.
Susan (38:31)
When I die, I really, really, really was hoping that by the time I died that I could, that there would be some funeral service that would put your ashes in a rocket and shoot you up into space to the sun so that you could burn up in the sun, right? Like this was even before my whole thing about, you know, closer to science and finding peace with that being part of the universe. Like that's just recent. Like before that, I really did want to go up there. I wanted to be part of the universe.
Heidi (38:45)
Yeah.
Right.
Susan (39:01)
when I died. So I'm waiting for Jeff Bezos to come up with some sort of commercial, know, commercial, consumer, you know, friendly way to shoot your ashes up into space as a funeral thing. Yeah. Do they really? I know they can turn you into a tree. I know you can be tree food.
Heidi (39:03)
That's amazing!
Because they have that now, but it's, I think it's expensive. Yes.
No, there there is that there no there really is it's yeah, you can be shot into outer space for real. Well, and that's yeah, you're gonna you'd be space junk. There's no
Susan (39:32)
Stop, don't wanna be space junk. That's the thing. Okay, all right, all right. I don't wanna be space junk. need to, my destination does need to go towards the sun. I wanna be the ultimate cremation in the sun.
Heidi (39:45)
Okay, Hmm, we'll have to, okay, Jeff Bezos, get on it.
Susan (39:53)
Okay, or I mean does ⁓ the other guy, my god, names Tesla, the Tesla guy, what's it? Yeah, Elon Musk, I can't believe I totally, his name, Elon. Is Elon into space? Elon's in space, is he in space? He has the satellites. Space like duh, I see again. Yeah, but did he have a rocket?
Heidi (39:59)
Elon Musk.
Yeah, he's this he's the SpaceX guy. Isn't SpaceX? Yeah, I'm like, is Elon in this? I don't know. I don't know. He should he could maybe make a killing. No pun intended.
Susan (40:20)
I just remember Jeff Bezos because of his big penis shaped space rocket, but I don't remember Elon Musk. Yeah, don't you remember seeing it? It was like the giant dildo.
Heidi (40:27)
Is that for real?
What? Where have I been? Well, don't, I'm not tapped into news, media. I like this little rock. Actually, it's a big rock that I live under. I like it.
Susan (40:40)
Hahaha!
Yeah, that's right. Again, okay. Brain fart, right? Right. Elon Musk, SpaceX, all of the things. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So then Jeff, Elon, I'm counting on you to make it commercially available and at least somewhat affordable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll sell some of my stock for that, you know. All right.
Heidi (40:48)
Yeah. that's so interesting. OK.
Yes. Let's go.
Let's go boys. Come on. Come on.
My dad used to say I want to be thrown on a compost pile and He was only half joking because he's like I want to go back into the earth the way, you know, I he was Yeah, yeah, he would he was he was like really wanted to be well he donated his body for science study of anatomy and stuff and that was really cool I would like to do that actually because the the benefits that they get from having an actual
Susan (41:15)
See, that pod, that tree pod thing would have been perfect for him.
Yeah, that's good.
Body. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Heidi (41:34)
cadaver. Yeah, they really do honor the body and they really the medical students are so grateful. I listened to their the they had a whole ceremony for all the people who donated their bodies and it was so emotional. It was so beautiful. Yes. Upstate New York. was amazing.
Susan (41:47)
Really, really. I hope so, really. I would hope so because I've also heard stories like they're just kind of like stupid.
Heidi (41:55)
Well, it probably depends on the facility and what institution who's getting the body. But this was upstate New York, the SUNY Medical Center. It was one of the medical centers in upstate New York. it was, my God, I was bawling my eyes out. The students that were talking about how grateful they were to the, my God. It was so emotional and I did not expect that.
Susan (42:05)
You've are.
maybe it was the University of Rochester. Wow.
⁓ wow.
Wow.
Heidi (42:23)
And then the professors were sharing and it was just, wow. I was like, I want to do that. I want to do that. Yep. Because they said that for being able to put their hands on a physical, like to say, okay, this is a 65 year old woman who died from this and to see physically what happens in the body versus learning about it in a video or a textbook. They said there was nothing to compare to that.
Susan (42:30)
Wow. All right, well, you know what?
Heidi (42:51)
And that's that gift of being able to, you know, the gift to give after you, you know, keep on giving, I guess, you know, it's like, you know, be of use to my dad always wanted to be of use well past his life. And, you know, he did. So I just thought and he wanted to be cremated anyway. So it was and then when they were finished with all the different studies and things, they cremated and then sent him to us. So, yeah. I know.
Susan (42:54)
Huh.
Right, right.
Wow.
my goodness, all right, well I will now do that in lieu, well if I can't be shot up into the cosmos towards the sun, right, I don't want to be space junk, then I will donate my body to science.
Heidi (43:27)
There you go. Just find it. Well, you're in Georgia. You probably have some really good options around Georgia. I would think, yeah. Start looking now. wait, you can do both. You can do both. can donate your body because you get your ashes back. Yes. So, yeah. Yeah. All right. On that note, I think this has been a great conversation.
Susan (43:33)
I so. I would think so maybe.
That's a really good idea.
That's right! Okay, I'm gonna do both. I'm gonna do both.
Heidi (43:55)
This will most likely be for our patrons on the top tier level, because I'm thinking a lot of people are going to be like, I don't know if I really want to hear all this stuff. But anyway, thank you so much. This has been really good, good conversation. yeah, we'll talk again about any number of topics that come up in our wonderful mid-lives. I love you. Bye.
Susan (44:09)
Thank you for having me back. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. I love you. Bye-bye. Bye.