#17 - Fatherhood and Parenting

What is Age Differently?

This podcast is focused on challenges that are routinely encountered by men aged 50 - 70, but
not often discussed. Although targeted to them, this is also applicable to older / younger men
who are looking for ways to age differently, as well as the women that are involved in their lives.
Stress, relationships, male friendships, diet, mindfulness, aging with vitality and dying are just
some of the many topics that are covered. A rotating series of guest speakers join the podcast
to provide insights and wisdom relating to other relevant topics such as EMF radiation,
emotional intelligence, mindfulness and hair health.

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Unknown
Background music

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Darius
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Age Differently Meaningful Conversations for men. I'm your co-host, Darius Naigamwalla and I'm here with my friend and collaborator, Peter Callin. Peter. Good afternoon.

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Peter
Good afternoon. Darius, how are you doing today?

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Darius
I'm well. We have a really exciting podcast for the men in our audience and the women in their lives who care to introduce it for everyone. Please.

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Peter
I'd love to. Today's topic is on parenting as a father. Fatherhood would be another way of describing it. But being a father is not the same thing as parenting. So we're going to focus on what it is to parent as a father, your children, and especially in this modern era. And maybe you all there is there there haven't been any roadmap, so there aren't any manuals on how to be a father.

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Peter
And so hopefully we'll share our experiences with you and maybe within those experiences, there's a moment of a gem of learning that you can take away and apply to your own children in your own life.

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Darius
Yeah, that's the hope here. Definitely the hope.

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Peter
You know, I, I should share as a lead in that I was a father at 17. And there was no roadmap. And the roadmap would have been different. Anyways. It's very different from being a father at 17, as opposed to being a father in your 20s or your 30s. So we acknowledge that. I want to acknowledge that and and acknowledge that my experience will likely be very different than some, if not the majority of the audience.

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Peter
But I learned on the job, and while on the job of fathering, I still was able to, compete as an Iraqi intercollegiate athlete, finish both undergraduate and graduate school and go on to work for a fortune 50 company.

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Darius
So, Peter, you were a father at 17. But that's not all. You were a father again at.

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Peter
Ten years later.

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Darius
27. Yes. And then again at.

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Peter
Oh, you're testing my my history knowledge here.

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Peter
35 and then nine years later at,

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Darius
44, 44, 17, you have all four decades of life as a father. 17, 27, 35 and 44.

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Peter
No, not 44, I misstated it's 30, 38.

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Darius
30.

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Peter
Eight. Yeah. Three years later, my baby girl got it.

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Darius
So my experience is different. Two sons. I had them when I was 33 and 36.

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Peter
So slightly more mature in an age.

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Darius
Where ostensibly slightly more mature. Okay. I'll continue.

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Peter
So the question I think is for both of us, okay. In our individual situations, what were the realities of fatherhood? What were the realities of fatherhood for you and, and what have been your takeaways and what would you share with the audience who were successes? I guess I would say that you feel you were able to achieve, what did you what do you feel has served your children well?

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Peter
It's probably the best way.

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Darius
Yeah, I would answer it, differently than it was asked. I don't think I had the maturity or capability to have been a father. At 17. I had a good friend of mine. He had his, son when he was 19 or 20, some wonderful kid, 31 years old. But he always had that maturity. He always had that groundedness about him.

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Darius
And I didn't have that. So I made the decision not to have children until I had gotten much later. I had gotten myself established and really figured out who I was and what it was. I was trying to, to accomplish what I was able to give. I think, at least for me, it was a wise decision because I was able to selfishly focus on myself for my kids and my 20s, get the foundation set.

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Darius
And then once I had it launched from a career perspective and knew that I could effectively provide without a ton of stress, I was in a position to be able to move forward and have children. So it was very thoughtfully done.

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Peter
Yeah. So this is an excellent opportunity for our audience to hear, kind of opposite experiences on the spectrum, one that was, thoughtfully planned parenting, parenthood, fatherhood, one that was just right and all of a sudden found its way into my.

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Darius
I don't I don't have to tell you how it happened.

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Peter
You don't know. You don't know. You don't. So what.

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Darius
Are the.

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Peter
What are the things that you do different? You believe that as a father makes you a better father or a father that serves in the personal development and growth of your children, your boys? Why don't you share a little bit about how old your boys are?

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Darius
And so I got, two sons. Cyrus is 18, going off to college next year is going to be attending BYU, going to business school. I'm really proud of him. And Kai is 15, a sophomore in high school and just equally proud of him as well. You asked about what makes me a better father, and honestly, I don't think I am a better father because better invite, a comparison.

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Darius
And I don't know who I'm comparing to. So when I think of parenting and how I've chosen to approach fatherhood, it's from a very engaged present point of view, recognizing that those two are my priority, understanding that they're watching and learning even when I'm not aware they're watching and learning.

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Peter
Yeah.

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Darius
And recognizing that things I say and actions I take are going to stick with them far longer. So being conscious about the choices that I make to create, what I, what I try to do is create a harmonious space for them to grow and reach their maximum potential. I mean, if I take a big step back, my job as a father is to make them independent, launch self-sufficient.

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Darius
Eventually we're designed or I'm trying to make myself obsolete because if I have made myself obsolete, then they have all of the capable that to be able to stand on their own two feet and live a fulfilling, contented life.

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Peter
Is it Alaska? A loaded question? Is it only according to your model of what and how they should be as men?

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Darius
I don't even understand that question because I don't think I have a model.

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Peter
Okay, so there's no predictive condition view of what success should look like for them.

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Darius
No, I didn't use the word success. I use the word happy and content. Okay? Because my definition of success is going to be very different. Different than their definition of success.

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Darius
So again, my job I tell this to Kyle all the time. My job is to create optionality for you, to show you possibilities, to show you potential. Your job is to make the choice.

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Darius
Once you've made the choice, my job is again to support you and create optionality around that choice. But I don't think it's at least not for me in my wheelhouse to prescribe success for someone else. They have to figure that out themselves.

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Peter
It's their lives that they're living.

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Darius
It's their lives.

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Peter
Yeah, well, I'm not sure all parents acknowledge that. And so I wanted to make a point of it for a second. I'll share with you in the audience that, my children have evolved, as in, in varying ways, and hopefully they are happy and living joyful lives.

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Darius
Success.

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Peter
That would be success. But doing what they chose to do. And that was always how I approached parenting and fatherhood, just trying to maximize their particular gifts as spirit to souls, as humans. And, encouraging it, encouraging it with the recognition, like you just pointed out. And I wanted to emphasize that before I move on, they from cradle to your grave are watching you.

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Peter
Learning from you.

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Darius
Yep.

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Peter
Looking to you. And so I, I would venture to say that that's something that any parent that's out there is just to keep in mind. And then you choose how the behavior. You've selected, consciously or unconsciously, is in the best interest, not only of yourself but of your children.

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Darius
Yeah.

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Peter
And, something I've kind of kept in mind throughout throughout my lifetime. I have four children. Is you had me have to figure out mathematically,

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Darius
This you could ask me the same thing, and I would struggle to, but I actually wrote it down before, which is why I was able to ask you how old I was when they were born. Because I figured I would do this, and I just.

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Peter
You, this is what my co-host does to me sometimes, but that's that's part of the territory. I started to say my oldest is, is a, a, physical therapist, and, he's the father of two. And, my youngest son is a marine raider, and he's deployed often, protecting and serving our country. And I have a daughter because all of mine are adults at this point in time.

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Peter
And so I have a daughter who's, nurse, and this is. And I have another daughter who's leading, a program that is trying to bring more teachers to the profession, where there's a shortage of teachers. And they each found what serves them best and makes them happy. It wasn't like I, as a parent, directed them, but there there are complexities that I point out, and that is making sure that they get a proper education.

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Peter
That was keen with me from the very beginning. I understood that making sure that financially they provided for sometimes at times could be lean, and I would just say and share to the audience, you know, you do the best you can, but recognize that there's an ebb and flow to everything, and there's an ebb and flow to your finances.

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Peter
So I have the perspective of looking back and recognizing how there were times I stressed as a father, and I was frustrated by some of the decisions I chose that may not have been in the interest of my family. I mentioned, one of the earlier episodes, a situation where I grew exponentially and it brought has brought me to where I'm at now that, it caused some financial hardship for my family.

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Peter
But those are decisions. Choices that I would like to share with the audience will come your way and how you handle them. And we talked about this in that same episode with resilience make all the difference in the world. So moving on.

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Peter
What would be a key takeaway for you? When you look back at your parenting and fatherhood of your boys.

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Darius
What do you mean? The key takeaway? Help me understand, what.

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Peter
Would you share with the audience would be something that you've learned is, and you may have already mentioned it to rise, but restating it might be important you've learned is important in being a parent and and and being a father and fatherhood.

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Darius
Yeah, there's there's just so many. I'll try and give you a couple. One is find joy in the little moments. Right. The little moments are they come and they go so fast. I give you an example. We, Kai and I put up Christmas decorations, and we have been called Clark Griswold from National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation multiple times as recently as last evening.

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Darius
I'm giving this the stink eye to our producer, who actually said we win the Clark Griswold Award. They go up on November 2nd, and Kai and I put them up every year. And every year he and I spend 4 or 5 hours out together putting up lights, inflatables, candy canes, you name it. And we have a blast doing it.

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Darius
It's just joyful to be with him. Or, my older son and I play in a band together and he's an incredible guitarist. Joy. Just being in that moment. So one is find joy in those moments where you're spending time. Number two, make the time for them. Yes, make the time for them. That means going to their sporting event, going to their recitals, going to their plays.

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Darius
Because what you are saying without saying a word is you matter. And along those same lines, listen, listen to what they're saying. Listen to what's not being said. Nonjudgmental kids get enough judgment in high school or middle school or even college. You don't need that nonsense.

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Peter
Social media.

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Darius
Yeah you don't need that. All you need to hear is they need someone to hear what they have to say. If you've got advice and they're willing to listen, then you can give it. Other times I've tried to counsel my children and they're not in the mood to hear it. And I will either say, okay, talk, come back to me and talk to me when you were ready.

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Darius
Or if they're about to make a colossally stupid decision, I say, okay, go ahead. I want to be the guy sitting right here, ready to say I told you so. When you come back in a day which usually cuts through the clutter and we can engage in a really heartfelt dialog. So find the joy and make sure they know they matter and listen and listen.

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Peter
I'll, I'll share an insight to kind of repudiate what you're suggesting just now. These children, believe me when I tell you they're there, they hear you even though they.

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Darius
Oh, I believe it because I can. I watch their behaviors afterwards, and I watch what they are saying to other people. I'm like, that's me. Yeah, that one's really drilled in there.

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Peter
Yeah. And I have the benefit of adult children coming back to me and saying, you know, when you told me that.

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Darius
I had that experience too, you were right.

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Peter
Yeah.

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Darius
Yeah. But I got to on that topic, I am now at the point with my children where if there is a a tete a tete like a productive discussion of opposing viewpoints, I now have to be very cognizant that there is an extremely good probability that my viewpoint is inaccurate, and I have to approach it with an open mind and repeatedly now I find myself telling my children, hey, you were right.

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Darius
Thank you ma'am, I appreciate that. Yeah, that was really good catch you made or I didn't see that. Well done.

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Peter
And, you know, and that's a difference. I think that, is generational. I notice in conversations with you and just observing you with your children, the level of interaction and communication is little higher. And I've said to you a number of times that sometimes we're on the opposite spectrum of things. And, you know, here we are, me 17, being a father and you 37.

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Peter
So we're kind of at opposite spectrums. And, you know, I didn't have a roadmap, I didn't have a model. And so I just adapted what I thought was, again, best serving my children's growth and development. I did, to the chagrin of my mother. Have dialogs rather than monologues with my children, much like you said about communicating with them.

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Peter
And so think back to the, the, the 70s and an adult talking to, a child almost as if they were adult. And I remember sharing with my mother and sharing with others afterwards. I always viewed my children as, I could have said, young souls or little adults and that that kind of helped me keep a perspective throughout their development and growth.

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Darius
Yeah, I always view them in my teachers.

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Peter
They are as well.

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Darius
I mean, the amount that I have learned from those two is staggering. Yeah. And watching their their gifts start to grow and blossom. Yeah, I learned more from those two than probably anybody else. Yeah. And I continue to learn and I'm delighted that I'm able to. But I think part of that is I'm open. Like Socrates said, the only true knowledge lies in knowing that you know nothing, right?

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Darius
Continuous learning, continuous growth.

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Peter
That's so true.

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Darius
You've got two and you've got four powerful catalysts to make that happen.

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Peter
Yeah. One other thing. I'll introduce and you mentioned kind of mentioned that they model you.

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Peter
And it's not just them. And for me my youngest son brought a lot of his friends into the household. They did not have good examples of fathers. Some fathers weren't present. Some fathers were in jail. So it, it behooves I think each of us, if we choose to, to be aware of the impact we have not only in our children but other children as well.

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Darius
Absolutely. And there's a lot of different opportunities to provide that or to generate that impact. You could coach a sport. Now as a parent, you and I coached a lot of sports as well.

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Peter
So yeah.

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Darius
And you get to see your child as they encounter adversity, encounter challenges and give them the framework or tools to help overcome them. You get to know their friends and have an impact in their lives, and you get to spend quality time with your child doing something that either he or she loves. And you might not love.

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Darius
I coached baseball. I've never played baseball. I have no baseball skills. I can't coach fundamentals, but I can manage kids. And I also coach soccer. I've got a lot of experience playing so I can able to advise on the technical aspects of the sport as well. But get out there, be engaged with your child, meet them where they're at, whatever they're interested in, become interested in, learn about it so that you can engage in a conversation with them and have that common shared interest.

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Peter
I'd like to share with the audience a couple of important points that fatherhood is not perfect. There's an imperfection, the same kind of imperfection that we all experience as humans in the human condition. But here in a particular role, as a human, they're also going to be imperfections. And that's okay.

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Peter
It's okay to not think that you have to be perfect. You'll make mistakes and if you can be self-aware and resilient and purposeful for your children, then perhaps you have the capacity to, have the awareness to mitigate some of the adverse effects, the adverse inference that come, that find their way to your children's path as a father.

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Peter
Because as a father, one of the roles that I always viewed myself is, feeling was as a protector as well. So until they're able to protect themselves, shield themselves, I feel that that's something a father or a parent needs to be very aware of. I think it comes natural for most, but I highlighted here and mentioned it and be mindful of your interactions.

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Peter
You mentioned this before, so I'll highlight that again. Every one of your interactions with your child, every moment, just like every moment has significance. And so be aware, discerning, and basically mindful.

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Darius
Yeah. I comment two things to comment on that one, you are going to make a mistake as a father. Probably gonna make lots of them. I know I have. I would posit that you have as well. If you make a mistake, you recognize it, own it. Number of times I've went to my children and said, hey, I'm sorry I did x.

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Darius
I thought this was going to happen, I was wrong. This is what I'm doing to fix it. Oh thank you. Makes a lot of sense. And the second thing, and this is definitely more in my persona. We do silly things around the house. So, as an example, about 20 years ago, I bought this reindeer as my first Christmas ornament was the start of the journey.

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Darius
And it's this light up reindeer and it's head used to move up and down, but that doesn't work anymore. And it used to have lights, but I had installed new lights on it this year when Cyrus was nine and Kai was seven. I'm a Steelers fan. Kai's with me. He's got good taste in teams. Cyrus is all Boston.

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Darius
It's a Patriots fan. So we made a rule that when the Patriots played the Steelers, Bobby, which is the name of our reindeer, would get that shirt put on him for the season. And if they weren't playing well, then the team with the best record would get the shirt put on it. What shirt Bobby wears is a major topic of discussion.

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Darius
When he comes down to the point that I tried to pull a fast one this year, I tried to put the Steelers jersey on five days early. Cyrus saw it, looked at me and said, you're trying to pull a fast one. Why? Outside ripped Steelers shirt off, put the Patriots jersey back on and said you know the rules.

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Darius
December 1st. Find those moments. Find those red tools. Find those things where you can engage and have that dialog. And going back to apologizing, I had to go, Cyrus. I did try and pull a fast one to see if you were paying attention. Yeah.

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Peter
Yeah. So yes, those moments, one of the things we haven't really brought up and I haven't mentioned, that's critical. Important men have a tendency not to be, emotionally intelligent and expressive of their feelings. And expressing your feelings to your children as a father is critically important. I would suggest to the audience not to be resistance to it, especially.

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Peter
And I remember doing this young with my boys expressing love.

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Peter
You know, in my generations you didn't tell a man another man that you loved him. But you know, it's more common now. But I've done that with my boys from the very beginning. You know, a couple of the things that I want to highlight in terms of my.

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Darius
Move on from that, you know, critical, essential, like telling them, showing them physically with a good solid hug backs, whatever it is being in their presence, doing things that they need done without them even asking. Yeah. Just so they know. Yeah, whatever I do, this guy is going to love me. This guy is going to accept me. I've got a safe spot that I can come back to because the world's going to knock you around, knocks everyone around.

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Darius
They need to know that they can come back, they can recharge, they can get set and they can take off. And so it all comes down to love. Tell your kid and called actions coming early. Tell your kids you love them. Yes, it's simple, it's easy.

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Peter
And let them see your emotions. Yeah, let them know that you also experienced fear anger.

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Darius
Because they're human, because.

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Peter
You're human. But you know to be aware of it and maybe even communicate the reason for it, and then just be present with how it's no longer relevant. It's not your choice. We didn't talk about a couple of experiences I've had, and I'd like to share them real quick. And one of them is co-parenting. Because, as I mentioned in one of the earlier episodes, I was divorced from my first wife, the mother of my two boys, and we've been co-parenting, throughout.

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Peter
And again, I'm mentioning this because there may be some family structures out there where that's the case. And so the takeaway, I hope to share is that we often focused, no matter around animosity towards one another, the challenges and complexities that we faced in trying to do our best in the best interest of the children. And so hopefully that's the takeaway I can share with the audience.

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Peter
And it just makes things a little bit less complex.

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Darius
Completely agreed.

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Peter
So, Darius, do you have a call to action for our audience?

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Darius
Yeah, call to action that I just iterated a minute ago, which is tell your child that you love them, let them know that you care deeply about them. And, echoing what you just said. It's okay to have emotions. It's okay to share that you're having those emotions with your child because you're human. And they need to know that they're probably having emotions and it's okay to feel them.

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Darius
And there's healthy ways to express them.

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Peter
So I'll leave with this. We'll end this this, episode with this quote.

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Peter
Parenting isn't about being perfect. It's about showing up. Learning. Loving. Every step of the way.

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Darius
You have an eloquence about your way, which I respect and admire. I'll add on my own quote. Please. Slightly less eloquent. Any idiot can be a father. It takes effort to be a parent.

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Peter
It's. That's why we co-host both eloquent in our own ways.

00;29;06;08 - 00;29;24;05
Darius
Any questions comments feedback go to age differently.com. Appreciate if you guys would subscribe forward this to other people that you think may benefit from it. And thank you guys so much for that time. I hope you found something of value in this. And Peter, thank you as well.

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Peter
Thank you, Darius, for having this discussion, this meaningful conversations. Everyone out there have a great day. Take care. Bye bye.