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Licensed psychologist Dr. Jen McWaters, and wellness coach Kaitlin Reed, join forces to help women create an abundant life through holistic wellness practices, mindset shifts, and fostering a healthy relationship with food and their bodies. Join us as we take a deep dive and uncover the raw truth about mental health, nutrition, fitness, and beyond, offering insights and strategies for transformative growth.
Dr. Jen McWaters is a licensed psychologist and a holistic wellness coach for women. She is a Certified Integrative Mental Health Professional and is passionate about helping high-achieving women overcome their mental blocks, find freedom from anxiety, and create an abundant life inside and out. Find out more about her work at: awakeningholistichealth.com
Kaitlin Reed is a fitness, nutrition, and mental wellness coach on a mission to help women build the body and life they deserve and desire. She has BAs in Health Promotion and Wellness & Fitness Management, MA in Performance Psychology, currently pursuing her Ph.D. in Health Psychology. Her goal is to help women finally understand the science and strategy of nutrition and exercise so they can achieve their goals and live an empowered life. Head over to kaitlinreedwellness.com to learn more.
DISCLAIMER: This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your personal physician if you have any personal medical questions.
Welcome to the Counter Culture Health podcast. I'm doctor Jen McWaters. And I'm coach Caitlin Reed. We're here to help high achieving women overcome mental blocks, find freedom from anxiety, create an abundant life, and build the body and life that they deserve and desire.
Kaitlin:In this weekly podcast, we'll uncover the raw truth about mental health, nutrition, fitness, and beyond. Let's get to it.
Jen:Alright, guys. Welcome back to Counter Culture Health. We are so thrilled and excited to have back on our show, Katie Matthews. Katie Matthews is a coach, an author, a speaker. She just completed her book, which is now available on Amazon called Unparalyzed, so please go check that out.
Jen:Her story's amazing. She was here before us on episode 7. So if you haven't heard her full story and testimony, please go check that out. And today's gonna be a part 2 continuation, talking more about her medical journey, kind of some of the things she went through, but then also weaving in how she worked through forgiveness, how she has a victor mindset, how do you create a victor mindset, and just giving us inspiration and encouragement for our own journeys as well. So, Katie, welcome.
Katie Matthews:Yay. Well, thank you for having me here. It's a blessing to be with you both.
Jen:Of course. We're so thrilled. So let's just jump in, and this is more of a continuation of what you share with us in the previous episode. But you, you know, went through a horrific car accident and ended up as a quadriplegic. And, you know, you had shared with me at a different time how not just with the physical limitations, but you also sustained some pretty big brain injuries.
Jen:And it's a really cool story about how God healed you from that and how you have really beaten all odds, I think, in all ways and additionally in in your brain injury because we know TBIs can be so traumatic and really impact our functioning quality of life. So walk us through that, again, that part of your story and how you had that doctor visit and what was said and all those good things.
Katie Matthews:Yes. So after my my car crash, I did. I sustained 3 different types of of which my brain was injured, and I have was classified to have a traumatic brain injury. I was blessed because the, the main, effects for my brain injury weren't terribly severe, but they did impact my life quite a bit. Short term memory loss, severe short term memory loss, and chronic fatigue is what I was having.
Katie Matthews:And I was taking medications to help my memory, to help my my, my chronic fatigue. And even the medications didn't help. Either I would feel great one day or the the side effects would just kick in sometimes, and it was never reliable. So there was one time where I was sitting there and I started feeling the fatigue, and it it'd be about 3 o'clock. I just wanna go to bed.
Katie Matthews:I felt like a zombie, couldn't do anything throughout my day because of the fatigue. So my mom and I had talked about maybe meditating. And I never I didn't really know what meditation was. I didn't know how to do it. I, but I wanted to feel better.
Katie Matthews:I didn't want to give up on my day. So I went into my room, shut the shut the door and just started breathing in deeply and breathing in through my nose, out through my mouth. And it was amazing to me, to see how much peace came when I took time to intentionally pause. And I kept this going for for a very, very long time, and it was incredible because I was able it it sometimes it would take maybe 20 minutes. Sometimes it would take 5 minutes.
Katie Matthews:Sometimes it would take longer, but it was okay because I I allowed myself to have that time. And as I was sitting in silence, it gave me peace. It gave me understanding that I am a limited being and that I can connect with the limitless God to help me heal. And I I I did that for quite some time. And pretty, maybe about a year or so of doing it.
Katie Matthews:I'm not putting a timeline for anybody who wants to heal this way, though, because there's no timeline. That that was just the timeline for me. But about a year afterwards, I was able to get off the medications that kept me, awake. I didn't need them anymore. I didn't need 5 cups of coffee during the day.
Katie Matthews:And I actually went to a and my my memory was so much better as well. Now people were asking me for to help them remember things. I'm like, yes. So I went to, a neurosurgeon up here just to get a I have a BP shot in my brain and to get things checked. So he did a a scan on my brain.
Katie Matthews:And we were talking, he said, I see in your file here, you had a a traumatic brain injury about 15 years ago. It's been 18 years now. But back then it was 15 years and I was like, yeah, I, I did have a traumatic brain injury. He said, well, looks it, I'm glad that it was just a minor one because you don't have any effects from the brain injury present in your brain anymore. And little did he know that brain injury completely shattered my life at that time.
Katie Matthews:I, I, because of my paralysis and the brain injury, we were told that I need 247 care for the rest of my life. I would never be able to amount to anything, at least from what what I thought with the what was the doctor's prognosis. And I'm so grateful that God's ways are so much higher than than what the doctors had had proclaimed, because now I'm, so much bigger than what, what the prognosis was.
Jen:Wow. It's such an amazing story. Right? And just I can't even imagine what that was like for you. And just to have that confirmation, it's always great when we have that, not just our personal experience or that external confirmation that things really have shifted and changed.
Jen:And the doctor was like, hey, like, you are totally okay. I'm not sure that was a shock to you too to not see any physical evidence of your injury.
Katie Matthews:Yes. It was so cool too seeing a a scan of my brain. I'm like, oh, that's what that looks like. Thank you.
Kaitlin:Have you always been like a fighter or a rebel or, like, is, is that how you are as a person? Or did you develop that skill? Because it's, it seems like you didn't really accept, you know, you were told all of this information. This is how your life is going to be, probably not going to get better, but you didn't accept that. Have you always been that way or is this something you developed because of this, experience that you went through?
Katie Matthews:That's a great question. I've always been a competitive person by nature, so I've always pushed myself. But in the aspect of health, I wasn't that way. Because I thought the doctors, they went to school for this. They they know a lot more than I do about the body and about the mind and about about what my limitations are.
Katie Matthews:And so for the first many, many, many years that I was injured, I just took medication upon medication upon medication because I thought the doctors well, I knew I thought, like, the doctors know more about about this body of mine than I do. So it was actually one day where, my my, my dad looked at all my medications, like, do you even know what you're taking these for? I'm like, no. I I don't know what that one is. I don't know what that one is.
Katie Matthews:And it was that question that really spurred me on to be like, k. Why am I taking this? And is there other options for my body that I can that can help me? And, so that spurred on the road to actually going to a naturopath. And it was really cool to discover.
Katie Matthews:I am, I'm on 4 meds now before I was on like 12. So I'm on 4 medications now. And there's, there's things that we do. Like I talked about the meditation with my brain injury. There's natural things that can help us.
Katie Matthews:Just a couple years ago, I was having blood pressure issues. And I'm not I'm not discounting the doctors because the doctors are wonderful, and they they know the medications that do help, but their their expertise is chemicals. And there are natural things that that can help just as much or even better as a chemical. So there was one time where I had a, well, I do have low blood pressure, very low blood pressure to the point where I start getting brain fog and can't think. So I went to my, my neurosurgeon my my naturopath not naturopath, one of my doctors, and they prescribed me a medication.
Katie Matthews:And I'm like, there's gotta be a better way. So I went to my naturopath, and I told her my symptoms, and it looked like I had low we took my blood, and it looked like I had low cortisol levels. So she she gave me some licorice root, which is, a nasty I'm not a nasty I'm not a black licorice person, but it's a nasty little, serum. And I just took some recently or just a couple of minutes before. And it helps naturally elevate my blood pressure so I don't have to be on medications.
Katie Matthews:So it's really cool to be able to, to have expertise in both aspects, the doctors, the naturopath, but you are your own expertise of your body. You you know what's going on. You know when things don't feel right. You know when when something just isn't right. And I encourage you to to to look into that, to research, to to get information from doctors, from naturopath, from all different things, and and look into what's the best option for yourself.
Jen:I love that. We we talk about that here all the time on our fact that, you know, doctors are amazing. We're so thankful
Katie Matthews:for them. We have expertise in certain areas, and everyone's limited. Right?
Jen:Whether it's, you know, doctors are amazing. We're so thankful for them. We have expertise in certain areas, and everyone's limited. Right? Whether it's a Eastern or Western doctor or a therapist, we all are limited in how much we can learn and how much we can do.
Jen:So it's still important to be your best advocate and to do your research and ask questions. And if you have a stirring that something maybe isn't the right fit for you to keep looking for answers, because there oftentimes is an alternative out there that could support you maybe equally or even better than what is the the traditional route. So I love that you brought that up, especially, you know, navigating quadriplegia. It's it's so complex. So I would imagine that you can even feel more helpless and more like you're not the expert and, like, you have to depend on all the doctors.
Jen:So I'm wondering, you know, more open endedly, but what was that journey like of how you navigated your medical journey, how you dealt with just all this new way of living, having to deal with the limitations that doctors would put on you? And then how did you get from that to a more Victor mindset?
Katie Matthews:Yeah. And I I love what you said there too, ask questions. It's so important to ask questions, especially open ended questions. I was just at the dentist the other day and he wanted to do some kind of scan on on my on my teeth as opposed to x rays. And I said, you know, why why are we doing this scan instead of x rays?
Katie Matthews:He's like, oh, we really don't need to do this scan. Let's just do the x-ray. So it's really cool to to to ask questions and understand the health and what you're being given, so that you can be your own advocate as well. So I love that you said that, Jen. But, yes, in the journey of being a quadriplegic, I'm so blessed that, I have amazing my my my mom is absolutely incredible, and she's in the medical field as well.
Katie Matthews:And she has helped me to to really to really get into what do I need? What does my body need? And being a quadriplegic, there's there's a lot with the the mental aspect, the lungs, the the, even, even the, the nasal and everything that there's a whole bunch of different specialists with, within the doctors. And so I had to really sit down and say, what does my body need? A normal quadriplegic needs this, this, and this, but we are all individuals.
Katie Matthews:So I'm taking what the normal quadriplegic needs and saying, okay, I do need this, but I don't need this. I may need this. I'll look into this. So it's really cool to see what is, what others before you have the journeys to other others before you have traveled, and to to pair it to who you are and and what you need. I hope I answered that question.
Jen:Yes. And and tell us more about how you went from that more of a feeling helpless place and mindset to feeling victorious. Yes. Victor mindset.
Katie Matthews:That is my passion is mindset. I was more paralyzed by the thoughts that I let myself feel than I was by my actual body. Once I realized that I am not a lump of coal. I I'm not just a rock. I I'm not what everybody says that I am.
Katie Matthews:My my brain still works, even if it was a little slower to begin with. My brain still works, and I can, research. I can look at the right thing or the right things for me. I can. The word says to test and approve what God's will is, his good, pleasing, and perfect will.
Katie Matthews:And testing means, yeah, you're gonna fall down sometimes. Yeah. You're not gonna get it right all the time, but neither is the doctor. We're all human. We're all limited in that aspect.
Katie Matthews:So it's so important to be able to say, I'm gonna take charge of my life. I'm gonna choose to to be okay if if I don't get everything right. Be okay if if I fall because I love that it says that, average an average success, a big success takes some 7 failures. It's what you choose to do with those failures that will help you within your success. It's the learning process.
Katie Matthews:It's the, just who, what makes you, who you are, are mostly the failures. So it's, you know, being okay with not, not having it right all the time and, and learning within the process.
Jen:I love that.
Kaitlin:What advice would you give to someone who is kinda stuck in that victim mindset, and go from victim to victor?
Katie Matthews:You are holding yourself captive. It doesn't it's not the doctor's prognosis. It's not your situation. It's not and and I say that with the most love in my heart. Because I can only imagine what you're going through, whether it's loss or or or just the the things that really paralyze us, the emotions that we feel.
Katie Matthews:I'm I'm with you wholeheartedly in that. And with that being said, we have the choice to be grateful. As I said before, the word says over 77 times within the New Testament alone to be grateful. And I love, 1st Thessalonians 5 16 through 18 says, Rejoice always, pray continually, and give thanks in all circumstances, that this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. And there's a reason to give thanks.
Katie Matthews:Neurogenesis actually talks about your your brain, creating new neurons every day within your mind. And Lamentations says, God's mercies are new every morning. So you have the choice of what you're gonna do with those new baby nerve cells within your mind every day. You have the choice to be paralyzed by your thoughts. You have the choice to play the role of the victim because, yeah, the world is unfair.
Katie Matthews:The situations that we go through are unfair. But you have the choice to be the victor within your own story with God, and you can step out of the impossibles that everybody says or or the things that they don't believe are possible. Because with God, all things are possible. You just have to you or you get to to still align your will with God and see him help you soar.
Kaitlin:Yeah. You just said something, very powerful that, you know, life is unfair, and unfair things happen. And in order to overcome that, forgiveness is a a big piece. And so can you talk to us about your journey of forgiveness in your situation? Whether it be forgiveness of yourself, your friend that you're with with God.
Kaitlin:Tell us about that.
Katie Matthews:Yeah. That was that was a battle for me that I didn't even know I was facing. I was okay with my friend, who I was in the wreck with, because we were both we were both both of us contributed to the accident that we were in. So I I never really had a ill will towards her harbored any unforgiveness. The one that I wasn't extending forgiveness to was God.
Katie Matthews:I was very angry with him. I didn't understand why good and gracious God would want me broken like I was. In the eyes of the world that I was worthless. In my own mind, I was worthless. My life didn't couldn't amount to anything.
Katie Matthews:And that was the paralyzing mindsets that I had. And when I started rekindling my relationship with the Lord and seeing his goodness all around me, even while I was still mad, my heart started to soften a little bit. I started to say, okay, maybe my life isn't that bad. Maybe my life isn't isn't isn't isn't as bad as as I my mind had thought it to be. And when I started opening that doorway and with the gratitude when I started choosing to find 3 things to be grateful for each day, my mind was taken off of the devastation that I felt, taken off of the paralyzing things that that were hindering me more than anything and brought into the present moment.
Katie Matthews:And forgiveness, unforgiveness paralyzes us more than anything else. Unforgiveness is is hurting us more than if somebody had done you wrong. It's it's it's hurting us more than it's hurting them. And when my unforgiveness towards God, it was hurting my relationship. It was hurting my his what he wanted to do in me and through me and the blessings that he wanted to to bestow within my life.
Katie Matthews:I wasn't letting him do that because I was angry at him. I I didn't wanna forgive him. I wanted him to know how angry I was that that this life isn't fair. And then when I finally let go of the the, the right that I thought that I had, I realized that it was no right at all. And it's it's beautiful to surrender.
Katie Matthews:It's beautiful to say, okay, I'm not gonna let this hinder my life anymore. And it's beautiful to break free from the the chains of unforgiveness.
Jen:Katie, I
Kaitlin:was going to ask the freedom you felt from that and the doors that opened up in your life after that.
Katie Matthews:Yeah. Can I just tell you doors are still opening? It's it's incredible because we are limited. We are limited beings, as we just said, and I love that we are limitless because of God. When I, when I laid down my anger that my life wasn't going to be the way that I thought it was after my paralysis, when I started to forgive God, when I started to say, okay, this life is good in in this day.
Katie Matthews:I took it one day at a time. This life is good in this day. This this is a nice thing that is happening to me that, it's it's not as bad as I thought it was. Then I was able to soar. Then God was able to open up doors.
Katie Matthews:And I'm not saying it's easy. If God opens up some doors, you you gotta walk through them. And you gotta go through the challenges. As as we talked before, the failures. You you gotta be open to those failures that are gonna come your way because they are making you stronger.
Katie Matthews:They're helping you learn lessons that will feed you within the in the road ahead, and they will strengthen you within the road ahead. And I'm so grateful for this brokenness. I'm so grateful for the thing that I never wanted in my life in the first place. Because it's made me who I am today. And because I know that there'll be many more stumbles in the road and and and blocks in the road ahead.
Katie Matthews:But for right now and today, I'm grateful for every lesson that I've learned from the past stumbles and and walls. So I'm gonna keep going. I'm gonna keep walking forward. I'm gonna keep, daring to to go through the doors that the Lord is opening even though they scare me so much. I'm gonna remember His faithfulness, that He is right with me wherever I go, and know that He will never let me fall to the ground and not help me up again.
Jen:Wow. That's such a sign of growth that you can be grateful for your hardship. Think that's something most of us struggle with most of our lives, right, to be able to to find that edge in that pain and that hardship where something beautiful came from it, and to have gratitude for overcoming something like that, it's not easy to get to. And with that, I wanted to ask you, you know, you mentioned that you grew closer to god or you opened up in your relationship to him while still being angry. And I work with a lot of people where they have a really hard time with that concept that you could hold space for both, that you could be angry and still move towards god.
Jen:So do you have any tips for folks who are kinda stuck there? Like, I want that. Like, I know I need that, but I'm so angry. I'm having such a hard time connecting or being open or trusting or being vulnerable. What would you say to them?
Katie Matthews:For my experience, a lot of the time anger and and emotions that come with that are either focused on the past or the present. When you're in space with God, you are in the present moment or the future, the past or the future. I'm sorry. When when you are in the space with God, you are in the present moment. And when you allow yourself to be in the present moment, you're able to see, okay, I have breath in my lungs.
Katie Matthews:Okay, I have food on my table to eat. Okay, I have, clean water to drink. I have so much good within my life right now that is helping me to grow. I want to focus on this instead of the anger that was behind me or could be in front of me. So I wanna encourage you to live in the present moment and to focus on the blessings that are right before you and the good things that are in your life right before you because anger, fear, doubt, these are are like blinders that the enemy uses over our eyes.
Katie Matthews:They don't allow us to live in the beauty of the now, and they are robbing us from the joy that the light that life has for you. So I encourage you to to take some time to just really when you feel those angry emotions coming up to say, okay. I'm I'm not gonna deal with that right now. I'm gonna live in this present moment. I'm gonna find something to be grateful for even though it's hard.
Katie Matthews:Gonna find something to be grateful for and choose to live right here in the
Kaitlin:now. Yes.
Jen:And I just said too that it's okay to be angry and still connect with God. He can handle our anger. He welcomes that in. Right? There's lots of scripture where there are, really, you know, important people in the bible who expressed their anger and hopelessness while still in amidst the prayer and connecting to God.
Jen:So a lot of people, I think, believe you can't be like that. Like, you can't be angry at God or, connect with him or show up or pray if you have these other difficult feelings, but we can't. Right?
Katie Matthews:We can
Jen:definitely do all of that to him.
Katie Matthews:And he already knows that we're feeling that way. So it it's it's it's night. I remember some nights rolling myself in a bed and just yelling it out with God. Like, why did you let this happen to me? What wait.
Katie Matthews:What's going on here? And it feels it feels really good to be able to get that out because God already knows you're mad at him. God already knows you're mad at other people. It's nice to be able to to unleash that with with God who is able to take that, able to to be a safe place for you within that as well.
Kaitlin:I'm very curious in your journey. Was there a part where you had to go through a forgiveness of of self? You know, thoughts of blaming yourself for circumstances, or if, if only I wouldn't have done this or lied or, you know, and, and had to go through that journey of forgiveness with self, because I have found that, you know, sometimes people have a hard time moving forward or self sabotage or, aren't able to heal and live a fulfilling life because they just can't forgive themselves for some decisions that they have made. So was that part of your journey at all too?
Katie Matthews:Still a part of my journey. I I'm a person who loves progress. I'm a person who loves to to keep keep going forward. And I hold high standards for myself. And I've recently learned a a couple years ago, I've learned that the standards that I've set for myself and the the punishment that I put on myself when I didn't, when I didn't meet those standards were hurting me more than anything.
Katie Matthews:I've learned that to give myself grace and grace is unmerited favor. It's favor that we don't deserve. We can give ourselves grace while still moving forward and learning from from the the hardships that we've experienced or the the failures that we've had. And it's what you choose to do with how you move forward and how you speak to yourself and and the condemning thoughts is what you choose to do with them. That will either keep you paralyzed like we were talking about before.
Katie Matthews:It help you keep moving forward. And that is something that I deal with on a daily base or not daily basis anymore, but very, very, very common. I have to be, I get to be kind to myself. I get to to know that as long as I have breath in my lungs, I'm still learning. I'm still growing.
Katie Matthews:And within that comes the failures and the learning. I love that. Katie,
Jen:this is a little bit off topic with with that, but what for you is most difficult about living with quadriplegia right now? What is the biggest challenge that you face? That's a good question.
Katie Matthews:It's gonna sound a little silly, but, as I said before, I, I love to, to keep going forward, and it's it actually is accepting my limitations, accepting my weakness. Because it's within accepting my weakness and and knowing, okay, this might be a little hard for me. Lord, I need you in this. It's within our weaknesses that we are able to see God come in and help us in ways that we could never have asked, thought, or imagined because it's his power that's working in us and through us. And right now, I'm I'm I'm in a place where my life that I never could have imagined the things that I get to do right now.
Katie Matthews:And and the journeys and and the the blessings and the and the everything that I'm encountering right now, I want to just go go full full force with like a bull in a China shop. But he's asking me to restrain, to, to, to sit with him and ask him questions and to, and to see my weaknesses and invite him in. So right now, that that's that's the biggest hindrance for me is to slow down and to to say yes to my weaknesses and invite God within them because it's then when things can actually get done the right way.
Jen:I've had a lot of folks talk about that they have a hard time receiving, and that came up for me while you were talking. Like, I would imagine that's part of the learning edge for you is how do you receive help from God and from others? Right? Because like you said, you do have some physical limitations, but also maybe there's something to be learned there for all of us. And how do you receive rather than often it's more easy to give?
Katie Matthews:Yeah. That's really good. I'm gonna sit with the Lord with that question. Thank you.
Kaitlin:Yeah. And asking for help, you know, because some sometimes we see that as a weakness or having to be vulnerable and that's very challenging for, people to do is to ask for that help.
Katie Matthews:Very much so. And that, that is, something that I've, I've learned, I continue to get to learn. And I'm so grateful that it it was I wanna share a little story. My caregiver, she's incredible. She's been with me for about 6 years now, and she's deaf.
Katie Matthews:So so we kind of we we help each other. Wow. So when we first were together, they said, okay. There's gonna be somebody come in to help you, but she's deaf, and I'm looking at my hands like my hands don't work. I can't sign, how is this gonna work?
Katie Matthews:But it's incredible because she's she lip she reads my lip. She has a cochlear implant as well. And when we we've been able to to bond on a on a incredible level. And we were driving home from work one day, and she came to pick me up from work. And, she said, thank you, Katie, that I get to be your kite flyer.
Katie Matthews:I'm like, what do you mean by that? And she says, I get to be the one who in the morning, we run to to to get you up and to get you ready. And then and it it it's it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a struggle sometimes, but we we get you out and get you ready. And then I get to let go of you and just watch you soar and just watch you just dance in the wind. And she says, it's such a joy for me to be your kite flyer.
Katie Matthews:And that just touched my heart so much because I I feel guilty a lot when I have to ask for help, when I have to to really rely on others. And her her what she said about being my kite flyer and her joy that she has with helping me soar. It it it helps me re to rethink the blessing that I have with asking for help.
Kaitlin:Mhmm. That is so powerful. So I think a lot of times people feel like they're a burden to other people, when really they feel the joy from being able to help. Like, they never see you as a burden. That's so cool.
Jen:If that's not in your book, that should be in your second book. That story. Uh-huh. So beautiful.
Katie Matthews:But yes. Yeah.
Jen:And, yeah. I mean, you guys, this is, like, this is Katie's real. She's the real deal. Like, I know her outside of this, and I know people who know her. And everyone's like, yeah.
Jen:It seems like she's not real, but she's real. Like, this is who she is. This is her mindset. This is who she is consistently. Not that, of course, you're perfect.
Jen:No one is. But, like, consistently, this is how you show up in the world and how you show up in your relationships, and it is so inspiring. I just love hearing you share your story.
Katie Matthews:Thank you, Jen. And thank you both for giving me the opportunity to share it share it with with Laura, And I appreciate that so much. Yeah.
Kaitlin:Thanks for coming back to talk about asking questions in the medical field, always asking why trying to get those answers, and developing the Victor mindset and your journey of forgiveness, through this. So thank you for that. I know it will touch and speak to so many other people. Remind us again where we can find you, how we can connect with you, and how people can work with
Katie Matthews:you. Yes. So, limitlessjourney.org is, the website on there. You'll find my, my email address. So feel free to connect with me on there.
Katie Matthews:And, the social media links is our limitless journeys, for both for Facebook and Instagram. If you want my personal one, it's the letter k, the letter t looks up. So Katie looks up.
Kaitlin:Amazing. Thanks again.
Katie Matthews:Thank you.
Jen:Thanks for joining us on the Counter Culture Health podcast. To support this show, please rate, review, and share with your friends and family. If you wanna be reminded of new episodes, click the subscribe button on your preferred podcast player. You can find me, Jen, at awaken.holistic.health and at awakening holistic health dot com.
Kaitlin:And me, Caitlin at Caitlin Reed wellness and Caitlin Reed wellness dotcom. The content of the show is for educational and informational purposes only. As always talk to your doctor and health team. See you next time.