Jo (00:00)
Hello, how are you?
Liam Jones (00:01)
I'm good, right, so we've got more data. This is part three of three on our data from ENPS, which is employee and promoter score. basically we've been inside the Korero database, we've pulled out loads of data on people who've been asked the question about whether they would recommend their place of work, basically. We've done two pieces of data already in the last two weeks, so if you've missed that.
I'll put links in the show notes, go and check them out first. This is the last one and this is all about how long somebody's been with the business. So I'll put this in the show notes so you can visualise it, but I'll quickly just intro it for us and then we'll hand over to you Jo. So basically we've got four categories. We've grouped everyone into four categories and it's all about when they were asked this question and their length of service at the time. So the first category is
basically saying that somebody's been in the business for less than 30 days. We've then got 30 to 90 days. We've then got 90 days to a year. And then lastly, we've got people who've been in the business for over a year. And the trend is people, it's hard to get out of all this, people who have been in the business longer are less likely to recommend.
Jo (01:16)
Drum roll.
Liam Jones (01:25)
place of work. Okay. And it's a consistent trend. Yeah. Yeah.
Jo (01:27)
You'd think it'd be the other way around, wouldn't you? Yeah. Like,
that's really surprising. Because you think, well, if somebody's staying, then why would they not be recommending? So yeah, this was a big one for me. It was pretty surprising, actually.
Liam Jones (01:43)
So I'll put the numbers out there and then you can carry on. So basically I'll kind of go backwards. So people over a year of service is plus 47. People sort of like three months to one year is plus 63. People less than three months is plus 79. And then people who've been around less than a month is plus 83, which is actually the highest.
Jo (01:46)
Yeah.
highest.
Liam Jones (02:12)
score we've taken of any data point.
Jo (02:14)
Yeah,
yeah, exactly. And I think for anyone who hasn't listened to the other two, it's worth reminding people that.
The employee net promoter score goes from a scale of minus 100 to plus 100. So it's not a percentage as most things are worked out as and yeah, it's all about employee advocacy. So how likely somebody is to recommend you as a place to work. And yeah, I totally assumed when we said we were going to pull out this data that it would be the other way around. That people that had been in the business longer would be much more likely to recommend. And I think if you listen to last week,
when
we were talking about generation, we were having a chat about how I wonder if it's because most businesses...
are so focused on the younger generations that they're sort of forgetting about the other ones. And, you we were putting all our energy into the Gen Zs who were the highest of the generations in terms of ENPS And I think that's probably the case. You know, the first 30 days, the first 90 days, I say it, you know, that's where people are measuring labour turnover. It's where people are sort of, it's the honeymoon period, right? You know, it's the
point at which you're being shown the very best of things, hopefully. And certainly again, remember contextually, these are people whose businesses have invested in Korero. They're people that genuinely care about their people. They're people that take the time to have this kind of conversation in the first three months for us to be able to pick up this data. So they genuinely do care. These are good organisations and you know, anything above 30 is good in terms of ENPS. Anything above 50 is brilliant.
and
above 70 is really good so the fact that in the first 30 days our clients that are asking this question are coming back with a plus 83 I mean it's brilliant you know they're doing the right things in that time you know but wouldn't it be great if it stayed at 83 throughout someone's employment and by the end of the first year it hadn't dropped to 47 which is still really good in comparison to the wider world
But it does tell us that maybe there's something to be done when people are hitting that year mark. Some of our clients now are doing the conversations from using the point of hire.
as sort of the kickoff date and then having conversations every three months. So they would be having a conversation at around the year mark. And looking at this, I would say, yeah, that might be the way to go as long as you have a compliant business and they actually get done. that is, I think that's the biggest.
That's the biggest gap between the top data point and the bottom data point out of the three sets that we've got. And you know, we haven't picked it up, but what happens after five years? Where are people then? Are they any less? I don't know. We'll dig into that a little bit more. So yeah, again, it goes back to make sure you're concentrating on everybody, not just what people like me.
consultants and other companies and everybody else is saying yeah you know the first hundred days are your most critical people will decide whether they stay or not yeah you'll they will and that is a super important time but don't let all the work that you've done in that 30 days then dissipate and you know not it's the same as
It's the same when you're a customer somewhere, isn't it? When you're a customer, you you get, you get absolutely weird at the beginning and then, you know, you get all the, all the great deals in the first couple of months and then you get forgotten about and until you say you're going to leave. then suddenly they bombarding you with offers to stay and you know, don't let workplaces be like that. Make it, make there be a reason to stay throughout the employee life cycle. And you know, that just means you've got to have a really good people's
strategy in place and you've got to understand what your people need from you and what's important to them and how you know the conversations that you're having are they the right conversations with the right people at the right time to make sure that people are doing what they want to do you know this isn't about people even once you've been somewhere a year
This isn't about people staying or leaving, this is about people saying, even if I'm only here a year, I'm still going to tell somebody else that this was a really, really good place to work. If you take retention out of the equation, what we want is advocacy. And if somebody leaves, then you still want them to say, yeah, I left for X, Y, Z reason, but my God, it was the best place I ever worked. That's what you need people to be saying to continue to recommend you.
almost the longer you're away from it, you know, the more you can, the more that you're in people's heads almost for the rest of their life and that they're referring you. That's, you know, that's true advocacy. Do you have a place, I mean, I don't know, I don't know if we've ever spoken about, do you have a place in your head where you're like, yeah, that was the best place I worked?
Liam Jones (07:44)
Yeah, I do, yeah. Yeah, I was young, was early 20s actually,
Jo (07:51)
You know, so if somebody says, was the best place you worked? You know, and you would, if somebody said to you, I'm thinking about going and working there, and yeah, might have changed now, but you say, my God, back in the day, that was the best place ever. Not sure if it's still the same now, but yeah, go and work there. You you still want people to be saying that years after they've left, but if you can't keep it up there after a year, then that's probably not going to happen.
Liam Jones (08:17)
Yeah, and then obviously I was thinking before we before we started I was saying that this this sort of correlates perhaps with the one we did last week as well, which is how the younger the generation higher the ENPS because I guess people the more likely new uh sorry new hires are more likely to be younger I would say as a percentage and I am sticking my finger up in the air a little bit here, but I would say as a percentage people
people coming into the industry and turnover is going to be, volume of turnover is going to be in younger people most likely isn't it I guess.
Jo (08:56)
I would think so I don't think that's a ridiculous generalisation to make we could probably go and look at some actual proper data from you know should get the pineapple guys onto this actually and correlate our data with theirs but yeah I would I would definitely say that's the case that you know and again that comes down to if you've got people who've been with you less than 30 days that are super happy
Liam Jones (09:02)
Yeah.
Jo (09:20)
they're more likely to be a younger generation, but we also know that the younger generation vote with their feet. So as soon as they become not so happy, they will just go. So it would be interesting with the individual organisations to correlate this against labour turnover. When are people leaving? Is it really in that first three months or is it actually between nine and a year or just over a year? What does that look like? Because a lot of people report on
report on labour turnover annually and they also report on where they are after 30 days hire but I think it would interesting to look at a year, maybe people do. It's definitely something that I'll be asking my clients.
Liam Jones (10:05)
Yeah, so are there any things around conversations that people should be doing differently with people who are in the business longer? Like I'm just thinking, don't know if this is the case, I'll just throw it out there, but like should you be measuring ENPS more regularly with people who are in the business, for example?
Jo (10:26)
just think you need to make sure you do it. Like, I think that even the businesses that have got Korero, you know, there is a, it's a very easy thing to put off because we're busy. So, you know, it's a very easy thing just to say, well, you're probably fine, or, it didn't change last time. And I think, you know, if a manager says to you, do you mind if we don't have this conversation now, or I'm a stacked for time, you know, what message is that giving? And I think,
Liam Jones (10:28)
Mm-hmm.
Jo (10:56)
Often we get the employee doing some pre-work and we can see that people put in their data and they're keen to have a meeting, but then the meeting might not happen for a long time, or maybe the meeting doesn't happen, or the employee will be waiting. The biggest gap we get is people who have put in their data, if you like, into the system, but then don't follow up with it.
that is way more engaging than not even putting it out there in the first place. The business is saying you're going to have an opportunity to have a career conversation and the managers within that business are choosing to not do it potentially because they're too busy or something more important's come up. Now what message is that giving to your people? You're not important enough for me to sit down and talk to you about your career even though we probably know what we're both going to say. There'll always be something in a conversation about someone's career that you might not have known and even if you know all of it,
it's about just giving them a bit of time and space to have their opinion heard. So yeah, think make sure you do them is what I would say. know, sit down and check in with people, not just are they doing their job, but how happy are they and how can you help them move forward?
Liam Jones (12:10)
Perfect, what a fantastic way to leave it. So that is the first sort of set of data I guess that we've done. So we're gonna move on to another question next week. So next week we'll be explaining what question are we doing Jo?
Jo (12:21)
Yes.
have we done performance? performance definitely like how do you measure performance in your business
Liam Jones (12:35)
Now we've only done ENPS.
How do measure performance? Okay. So next week's episode will be how and why to use that question. And then we'll do three more episodes on the data around that. Jo, as always, thank you so much. Really, really interesting. Thank you. See you time.
Jo (12:53)
Yeah. Bye. Bye.