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Interviews and conversations with the most prolific and talented audio drama creators.
Craig Hart [00:00:00]:
Jonathan chose this moment to be professional, and it's like Right.
Jonathan [00:00:04]:
Yeah.
Craig Hart [00:00:07]:
Speaking of which, and talented creators in the industry. And now here are your hosts, Craig Hart and Trisha Rose. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Audio Drama Insiders. I know it's been a while. Save your hate mail. I don't read my email anyway. So, I mean, if you wanna write it for just cathartic therapeutic purposes, that's fine. But, anyway, hi, my name is Craig.
Craig Hart [00:00:47]:
I am here with my trusty co host, Trisha, how are you today?
Trisha [00:00:52]:
In this particular moment, I'm doing really well. It's always a great day to talk about audio
Craig Hart [00:00:58]:
drama. Is. And I'll I you you say that each episode, again, this moment, and I I love when you do that because it's there's something very grounding about it, so thank you for that for that outlook. To atone for our long absence, I decided I would ask Trisha to sing the aria from one of our most famous opera. I'm just kidding. Oh, did didn't I not give you a heads up? I'm sorry. No. And in fact, instead of of doing that, we thought about that.
Craig Hart [00:01:32]:
But instead of that, I thought we would bring, you know, on 2 of the, what I consider to be 2 of the most certainly productive but proficient members of the audio drama community, none other than Alicia Hanson and Jonathan Cook of Eternal Future Productions, so thank you so much both of you
Jonathan [00:01:46]:
for being on the show.
Craig Hart [00:01:48]:
Well, thank
Jonathan [00:01:48]:
you for having us. This is exciting.
Craig Hart [00:01:51]:
Absolutely. So this is something I have wondered about. So can you share a bit about, I guess the story behind the formation of Eternal Future Productions, like, how did you 2 meet, decide to work together, all that good stuff.
Jonathan [00:02:03]:
It was a dark and stormy
Craig Hart [00:02:05]:
night. I was hoping for it.
Jonathan [00:02:07]:
Well, he said story, so I had to present it in such a fashion.
Alicia [00:02:12]:
Well, I had started, with writing just fan projects to begin with, and I realized I wanted to hear those come to life and just simply for listeners enjoyment. And so I met Jonathan through that because he was a voice actor And, he still
Jonathan [00:02:32]:
is. He's retired.
Craig Hart [00:02:35]:
At least it's like I forced him into retirement.
Alicia [00:02:40]:
I thought that was an important detail to mention that he still is presently a voice actor. But Back back then, that's, solely, like, what he was focusing on. And so I had asked him to be 1 a part of one of my projects, and he just, You know, happily agreed and was so dedicated from the very beginning with his time and talent. And I was very, very appreciative Of that. So that's kind of where we we began. He was working on my projects as a voice actor. And then down the road, I would say, I think it was a few maybe a a few years. We wanted to work on something that had purpose to it.
Alicia [00:03:15]:
We both love the Lord, and we wanted to do projects that would glorify him and that would have a purpose in what we were doing. And so we had come up with this idea about doing this company, eternal future, because it was hard to find projects that had a lot of purpose to it. We figured we could just create the projects and just make it happen. And so together, we formed the company. It started with Pirateeers, And now it's kinda grown to several projects and we have more in mind.
Craig Hart [00:03:42]:
Speaking of Pirate Eaters, can you share some of the inspiration behind that? Where did you get the idea? How did it evolve from the concept to the show as it is today, multiple
Alicia [00:03:52]:
seasons. That's actually, kind of a comical, beginning because I think it started, like, during the pandemic. And if you guys recall, everybody was hoarding toilet paper and one
Craig Hart [00:04:07]:
of the, everybody
Jonathan [00:04:12]:
Greg was selling it out of the back of a truck.
Craig Hart [00:04:16]:
Hey. I got got the toilet paper in the back of my truck. Sometimes at a Walmart.
Jonathan [00:04:21]:
Right? You're like, to play. I got to play.
Alicia [00:04:26]:
So I if you guys, also, you know, recall, we had a scene in, season 1 of Pirateeers where they're going through where the captain is going through a treasure chest, and he pulls up whole paper. But ultimately, we knew what direction we wanted to go. And we wanted these 2 pirates to go on this treasure hunt and to ultimately find something that was Greater than they can imagine and to have this encounter with God and to repent of their sins. And then just inherently that would, you know, caused dissension among the crew, because there are peep there were pirates that they're not ready to repent. And so it there's natural drama that comes with that. But we just we always look back and kinda laugh about the fact that we were discussing that scene as, like, the first.
Jonathan [00:05:09]:
Now I was joking about toilet paper being treasure for some people and
Alicia [00:05:13]:
Right. Right.
Jonathan [00:05:15]:
It all started with that.
Craig Hart [00:05:16]:
As you're putting a show together, say, when you're doing Pirateeers, how do you go through the writing process, and how do you divvy up the duties aside who does what?
Jonathan [00:05:27]:
Me? Okay. The writing process is just, you know, especially for me, I hadn't ever really done writing before this. So it was kind of it's very much a learning process, was the process. But, yeah, we would just we would get on a call, and we would just kinda start, tossing ideas back and forth, and and we would each, you know, contribute. What about this line? What happens to this? And and what about this? Oh, that would be a great idea. It's just literally kinda going back and forth, until something there was a script and we were kinda like, okay, let's do that. Which is why, you know, the first few episodes were, only, what, 4 or 5 minutes long, because we were writing and we had a good idea. It was like, that seems like a good place to end the episode, so let's make it.
Jonathan [00:06:07]:
And so that was kind of, our writing process really was just, tossing ideas back and forth and kinda seeing what made us laugh and what stuck and what we liked and and what kind of felt like good conversation, natural conversation, and those kind of things.
Craig Hart [00:06:20]:
And speaking of ideas and concepts, you guys have, you know, couple different Siri or one series of the Pirateiers, you have a new one coming up with venture, and then a couple of some stand alone stuff you're working on. How do you know when an idea is a good idea? How do you know what's worth spending your time on?
Jonathan [00:06:37]:
I think I think for for both of us, it's just It it's something that kinda feels right. You know? It's something that, like with Pirateeers, we're both kind of into just the whole pirate lore and and, you know, pirates of the Caribbean and all that stuff, we would like pirates, and so we're like, it'd be fun to tell a pirate story, and and we started it off with, something kind of fun and lighthearted, and then, you know, Alicia stepped in and was saying that, you know, I want it to be, you know, very, touching and and be and have a a salvation moment and and be Have the more dramatic elements, and it just not be the silly goofy comedy, which is what I always wanted to be. Right. I'm all about, like, and so that's I think it ended up being a good balance and things, but, yeah, it's just something that kinda feels right. And the same thing with with Venture, you know, she is really into Star Trek and and is a big Star Trek fan. I'm really into parodies and and, like I said, funny, silly things, and so we said, well, let's kind of do a Star Trek parody and and, but we can still give it some weight to it, some truth to and things. So in each of those episodes, there's sort of a, you know, a moral of the story or a life lesson kinda thing. And, the the the captain who's not always, the sharpest tool in the shed learned something in each episode, you know, and, and that kind of thing.
Jonathan [00:07:53]:
So we we just find stuff that we're interested in and and kinda go from there.
Alicia [00:07:57]:
Also think that when a scene has a purpose to it and it's not just fluff and it's not just arbitrary or gratuitous, when there's purpose behind it and it maybe either connects to a future scene or just has a Purpose in something like even sharing the gospel, or even the scene where the captain recognizes the bible. He said he has he had A vision of it during his near death experience. And even that had a purpose to it in that it showed that God was Calling to him even before he got to the treasure. Sometimes lighthearted works, sometimes drama works. But what sticks with me as long as there's a purpose to it. And a lot of times those scenes are character driven, like care characters. And I've heard you mentioned this to you before, Craig is that developing characters and character driven scenes are so essential in writing just because we have to care about what happens to those characters. Otherwise, everything else, it doesn't it almost becomes pointless.
Alicia [00:08:57]:
So I think a lot of scenes that are character driven are very meaningful. And As long as you develop those characters enough, the rest will stick and have an
Craig Hart [00:09:06]:
impact. No. Certainly, your 2 main shows, the one that you are currently have some seasons out that's pirate ears, but then also this the show that you're working on now called venture. There's some clear differences between the 2, like, it was setting in character, but what else sets these 2 shows apart?
Alicia [00:09:23]:
Pirateiers is a lot more straightforward and we shared the gospel, it's very clear, it's it's out there, Whereas venture is more of it it's not a faith based production. It's an outreach. Our goal with venture is To draw listeners into Pirate Tier so they can listen to the gospel. But, it is family friendly, so venture will be family friendly, not faith based, but it will have some, you know, some lessons, that the characters learn along the way. And our ultimate goal with venture Is just to reach, like, a huge fan base of Star Trek, of sci fi, and hopefully bring them in To the productions where we do share the gospel because we do that in Merry holiday as well. So it's different in terms of that.
Trisha [00:10:09]:
Yeah. So what's this thing I hear about? A partnership with LRT, Legacy Radio Theater. Tell us about that.
Craig Hart [00:10:20]:
Oh, boy. You know, I'm not sure we have, time for this.
Jonathan [00:10:24]:
Yeah. Craig, you wanna take this one?
Craig Hart [00:10:27]:
I already did.
Alicia [00:10:32]:
Well, we were just first and foremost honored when you asked, if we would be interested in in doing Robinhood with you. And I remember thinking, first of all, yes. We would love to do that. And then second of all was Robinhood is such a great topic. And I thought if we were gonna do this, we gotta have a twist it's gotta be different. And we were all on board with that. We all wanted to tell a new story, a fresh new story that, allowed A lot more character depth and things that had not been explained before in previous Robin Hood characters. So, when when we did all come up with the concept that we enjoyed, I thought, okay, this is gonna be quite Like an adventure, and it it really has felt like that since Yeah.
Alicia [00:11:16]:
We've been working with you. You've been just amazing to work with, Craig, And you keep it fun. You know, we're I I can't think of 1 session where we're not like laughing.
Jonathan [00:11:25]:
No. There was the one
Alicia [00:11:27]:
that we
Craig Hart [00:11:28]:
don't talk about.
Jonathan [00:11:28]:
I'm just kidding. That. No. It's it's definitely it's definitely been a blast. Every every meeting was something to look forward to. Every meeting was fun. Every meeting was creative. And, Yeah.
Jonathan [00:11:40]:
Just, you know, I just wanna add to that. Like, the you know, I had voice acted a couple on a couple of your other projects, doing Chaplin Squeak and and Titanic and stuff. So, yeah, when you when you came to us and and, approached us with the idea of doing a Robinhood thing, it was like, of course, that would be so much fun. And and, like, Alicia said, Robinhood is such a fun story to begin with. It would just be I just thought it would be a a really, really great time and and a really great chance to be creative with something. Well,
Craig Hart [00:12:05]:
that was way more embarrassing than I expected, so let's move
Jonathan [00:12:08]:
on to something else.
Trisha [00:12:12]:
So, Alicia, How did you educate yourself on directing audio drama? Because I believe I've heard you say that you Previously didn't have any experience. So how did you learn that?
Alicia [00:12:29]:
So that's that's a such a great question. You know, I haven't taken any official classes, for that. I have just, like, an associate degree in arts, and so I didn't like Taking school for it. But, ever since I was a kid, I have always enjoyed directing. And I say that because even in daycare, I would, direct talent shows is okay, guys, I see this. It was just one of the things that I so I've always, had a vision, whether it was, you know, for stories, directing, And just the natural love and passion for it. So, to answer your question, it's, I guess, self taught, based on These visions I have in my mind, that I wanna see, you know, happen and I guess, instinct in in a way. And so it's really nothing official, no classes, nothing like that.
Alicia [00:13:15]:
Just Self taught?
Trisha [00:13:16]:
Yeah. I have a few questions for Jonathan. I was wondering what other voice over genres do you work in, And how did you break into audio drama? Like, that industry.
Jonathan [00:13:29]:
So I've done I've done just about everything. I've done animation projects. I've done video games. I've I I've done radio commercials, and, so kind of anything and everything. You know, when when you're Starting out, we're trying to be a voice actor. You'd look for any job you can get. Right. And, and that's very much what I was doing.
Jonathan [00:13:48]:
That's kind of what, you know, Alicia was talking about how company got started. I was doing a bunch of voice hacking for a bunch of different projects and just wanted to do something that had more purpose and was more fulfilling and hard to find those projects, so that's why we said let's create them. So that's pretty much how I got into audio drama as well. The fan projects that Alicia was putting together, she was doing, not it wasn't an audio drama. It was more like a an audio novel, an audiobook, but every character had an actor, there were sound effects, there were music, so it was it was an audio drama with a narrator. And that was pretty much my first Foray into that, was was through, Alicia's projects and then, you know, we jumped in and started making them and, and that's when I discovered this This whole world that was still very much, active and and, you know, you hear radio drama or audio drama, you always think of the old timey radio and those are kind of long gone, but, you know, they never really went away. They're still
Craig Hart [00:14:45]:
going. Yeah. Well, and speaking of that whole world, how do you think audio dramas stand out from say other forms of storytelling, and what are the unique opportunities that this medium offers?
Jonathan [00:14:58]:
I think it's a wonderful medium now that I've gotten, more into it and and discovered more about it. You know, Alicia refers to it many times as a movie for your mind, and I think that's exactly what it is. We're writing these stories and and making these characters, but it still allows the the listener to create those characters in their minds. You know? You have what they, look like, you know, you can describe them a little bit. It's kinda like a book. You can describe the character, what they look like, but it's gonna be different in each person's mind. And and the things that happen in that, even though we're giving them clues through sound effects and things, I think each person is gonna visualize that differently, and that and that's such a, an interesting aspect of it. You know, we we have movies where everything is told to us.
Jonathan [00:15:37]:
Everybody sees it the same way, you know, and and So I think audio drama allows, a really interesting opportunity to tell a story that's the same story, but I think everybody sees it or hears it just a little differently, and they picture it differently and and I think that's a really, really fascinating, very cool part about it, you know, if that made any
Alicia [00:15:55]:
sense. Did to me,
Craig Hart [00:15:57]:
but I'm also crazy,
Alicia [00:15:58]:
so okay. So we were on the same level then. Do you
Craig Hart [00:16:02]:
have anything to add to that, Alicia?
Alicia [00:16:03]:
I love Everything that Jonathan just said, I agree with it completely. And I love what he said about movies. Basically, you know, you see everything, so there's not you can't really Imagine, you know, there's creativity in itself there, but, with books and audio drama, it's the same way you you it's a lot more subjective. And I also think that audio drama is such a convenient way to to get through to people because you're not having to stare at a screen. You can, you know, you can go and you could drive, you could be cleaning the house, Loads of fun and be listening to an audio drama. And so, you you know, you're getting that message and it's sparking creativity. It's So I think audio dramas are not only convenient but impactful and really sensible because people like producers Such as ourselves, we could have this idea for like a movie but we know can't produce it because it's so expensive, but an audio drama is feasible, you can do that and you can still Get the same
Craig Hart [00:16:57]:
effect. Yeah, for sure. Moving on to the production side, could you walk us through your typical workflow from conceptualizing an episode to actually releasing said episode.
Jonathan [00:17:07]:
Workflow. I don't know if we have an established workflow actually. You make us unlike we're
Craig Hart [00:17:13]:
Well, I should say why I'm asking this question. Like, there has been some other questions by other members of the audio drama community asking, like, how do you guys get so much stuff done Oh, okay. Out? So I guess maybe that's an easier simpler way of asking the question. Right. How are you as productive as you are?
Jonathan [00:17:34]:
That that's just, I think, teamwork. I mean, we we like I said, we get on the calls, and we we write the scripts together, toss in ideas back and forth. And once that's done, we kind of say, okay. Now we have to figure out who's gonna be in it. And, again, that's why we started with with pirate ears. We just kept it really simple. Like, I played both characters. We had, didn't have to go looking for other actors.
Jonathan [00:17:53]:
And then the season 2 went out, we found other actors, and we recorded those. And then once we had those recorded, Alicia had more experience with the editing and the sound design and all that stuff. So she was putting things together, and she would even find music samples and put those together. And then I was kind of learning that as we went so I could try and catch up and help more. And that's kind of where we're at now is, we we have episodes and we kinda say, okay. I can sound design this one. You can sound design that one. And while you're just doing this one, I'll be working on this.
Jonathan [00:18:22]:
And so we we just it's kind of a back and forth and and everybody working on a different aspect of it at the same time to kinda keep it going. You know?
Alicia [00:18:30]:
Yeah. And what, when he mentioned, like, the music, the licensed music That I would put together. He's referring to Mary holiday. And so we would write. We wrote that together. And then I did the sound design on that one. And then I also found some really, really incredible license music that fit the story perfectly. And I was able to edit and had to do a lot of editing to get that to sound somewhat seamless, hopefully.
Alicia [00:18:53]:
But, once we did get Pirate Tears, though, we actually did have quite a bit of help with Drew. So, Drew, Well, I did do the sound design for episode 1 and also episode 2. He jumped on sound design for episode 3 through 7. So everything from 3 to 7 is all drew sound design.
Craig Hart [00:19:15]:
And Drew Forbes.
Alicia [00:19:16]:
Right? Yes. Drew a Forbes, who is our composer. Mhmm. But he really blew us away just with the sound design he he did for those episodes. And then he also did the music for episodes 12. I had originally produced episode 1 with licensed music, and he heard it. And he's like he was just so eager to get on. He had produced what is the theme song for Pirateeers, and this was unsolicited.
Alicia [00:19:45]:
He just sent it to us, and he's like, Hey. What do you guys think? He goes, you know, he he was just excited to get on him, and we loved it. We're like, yes, please. And it was that is such an amazing testimony because he just felt like God was leading him To help
Jonathan [00:19:57]:
us. Yeah.
Alicia [00:19:59]:
And he's just been such an incredible human being in general, but, just such an incredible help to us. And so between the 3 of us now with pirate ears, you know, Jonathan and I are writing it. We're doing a lot of sound design. Jonathan's doing a lot of sound design this season. Probably most of it, I think, for this one.
Craig Hart [00:20:16]:
He's like, that's all.
Jonathan [00:20:18]:
So we don't have an established workflow, so I have no idea.
Alicia [00:20:22]:
Yeah. I mean, we've all we've done we've each done some, but he's done most of it for sure. And then Drew is focused on the music, and he also mixes it to make it sound good after We do the sound design. So he, you know, he'll do the leveling and everything like that. So now and with venture, we'll both be, working on sound design with that. And I think Mark McClaykey. He's interested in helping us, do some sound design as well. So
Craig Hart [00:20:44]:
Awesome. Yeah. I like Mark.
Alicia [00:20:45]:
Okay.
Jonathan [00:20:45]:
I hope so you worked with him. I mean,
Alicia [00:20:47]:
just He's He's such a nice guy.
Craig Hart [00:20:51]:
Yes. Very, very talented.
Trisha [00:20:53]:
Do you record your projects, like Venture, Pirateiers, etcetera, With all the other actors together, or does each actor pretty much record separately?
Alicia [00:21:07]:
For venture, we're recording, everybody we're giving everybody the flexibility to record on their own. But we have done, A few projects where we've actually done, them live as well. Mhmm. So and there's really no method to that because, you know, we don't say, okay, we're going to record a specific project this way. We just we come to that project. We're ready to work on it. We kinda feel it. I'm like, yeah, I think we we should do this life.
Alicia [00:21:34]:
So we don't have any rule or reason for it. We just I guess it depends really on the content of the story. Like, if like a a really emotional story. That's when I like to do life, to get that true authentic performance. And while there's emotional scenes we have People record by themselves. It's usually not on, like, a grand scale. It's usually maybe a few lines like that. A lot of times, you know, we'll hear the audition, we're just already, wow, they've got it.
Alicia [00:21:59]:
And even if they have it in the audition, sometimes we have them do it live anyways just because You get that more authentic performance.
Jonathan [00:22:07]:
Yeah. Yeah. And and one thing we haven't done, but would be really fun to do is, like, an ensemble recording, you know, getting the whole cast together, see that. We've always recorded everybody individually and just kinda pieced all the rule all the parts together from that. But and it's, you know, it's hard to do Our, you know, the audio drama production as it is because everybody's located in a different place, so it's hard to get everybody together to record all at once, but that would be something really fun to do. But, yeah, for most of our productions, we record every actor individually and then, piece it altogether. So
Craig Hart [00:22:35]:
So I guess 1 more final question, what have been some of the biggest challenges that you faced in this whole audio drama production process? And then how have you worked to overcome those problems.
Jonathan [00:22:48]:
I think one of the biggest challenges for me was just kinda jumping in and having to learn everything. Like I said, you know, Alicia was I had experience with sound design and directing and and writing. And for me, it was I was just a voice actor. All of it was new to me. So, for me, it was it's definitely been a learning thing, been wonderful. I I love doing sound design and and then putting those things together, and so it's been really, exciting to do all that. But, yeah, it's been definitely been a challenge in some aspects too because I have to look for how to do this and how do I get it to sound like this and how do I get it to do this and before I had no idea what equalizing was and compression and and and noise gates and all these things. So so it's definitely been, learning.
Jonathan [00:23:32]:
Definitely a lot of learning. And then, of course, just trying to get things done in a in a reasonable amount of time, you know, because we each have families, we each have lives and we each have other things going on. And so it's like, we wanna get this released by then, but, oh, I also have martial arts practice and band practice and cross country practice and, you know, take this here. And my father in law's in the hospital, that kind of thing is, you know, all these things come up. And so it's just, life is a
Alicia [00:23:56]:
challenge. Right? I find, advertisement and self promotion challenging. I I see myself as a producer, as a director, as a writer. These are things I I so enjoy doing and just all that. But self promotion just feels like it's like here. Look at me. Look what we're doing. And it just doesn't if I don't like to draw attention to myself.
Alicia [00:24:18]:
So But I feel like somebody's got to promote us. And so and I know that we're living in a culture now that it's acceptable, but it still doesn't feel Right to say, hey, that's I don't know. I find that more substantial. I've I've I've talked to Jonathan about it before, and I wish we could afford, like, a social media Person, to help us with that. But, yeah, I I don't know. I find that a little bit more. I don't know if I explained that very well. We might
Jonathan [00:24:44]:
have to No. I think I
Craig Hart [00:24:46]:
think it's about every creative listening is probably nodding along with you right now. Okay. Most of them because I think that's, you know, that's why they do what they do. They wanna create stuff. They're not necessarily business minded promotion minded.
Alicia [00:25:02]:
Mhmm.
Craig Hart [00:25:02]:
Mhmm. You know, just like the that's a different part of the brain.
Jonathan [00:25:05]:
Oh, absolutely, it does.
Craig Hart [00:25:07]:
Yeah. It's but then, again, it's tough when you want people to listen to it. You wanna gain an audience. They're, you know, typically not just showing up out of nowhere. They're obtained, found, woo, if
Jonathan [00:25:19]:
you will. Yeah.
Craig Hart [00:25:20]:
Absolutely. Yeah. And I you know, in in your case, when you have such an important message to share, I can see that being doubly frustrating because you want to get it out there, but there's this, you know it feels like a barrier in the way of reaching the people that you would like to reach. So yeah.
Jonathan [00:25:36]:
And it feels it's it feels like such a weird thing to advertise to, like Right. Come listen to this. It'll change your life. It was to turn off, you know?
Craig Hart [00:25:46]:
Alright. Well, this has been great. Thank you so much to both of you, for joining on ADI after it's lengthy, absence. And I was gonna say hiatus, but that suggests that the length between episodes is over, and I can't promise that. Anyway but thank you. I hope everybody has enjoyed listening to this. I'm sure they will, and, thank you so much for your time.
Trisha [00:26:08]:
Yeah. It Alicia, Jonathan, I'm so excited about the new projects that you have in the works. New things coming out. I really like the adventures that are coming from your brains, and keep keep up the good work.