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Welcome to What the Funk? with Jeremy Funk. A series that highlights the unique personalities within the Oil and Gas Industry and the stories they have to share.
0:00 All right, all right, we are back on the hundred and ninety first recording of the what the funk Podcast totally just made that up. I have no idea the exact number
0:13 It's a it's a lot. It's enough
0:18 As many of us feel in life, it's it's never enough sometimes and that's one of the things you do is help people get unstuck Justin Pines But we'll talk about that. We'll talk about a lot more. I am
0:29 kind of high Right now, not literally As we just discussed right before this and I've been pretty open about I haven't gotten high of any kind in Three years and five days celebrated milestone on
0:43 Sunday Pretty cool. Thank you. My friend three years and five days of sobriety Which I think is about fourteen hundred and one days. That's a real number. I'm not like a hundred and ninety one
0:56 episodes something I'm very Proud of take a great deal of pride in, but it's basically
1:04 1401 single days at a time, and that's the way that I approach it. And people ask me, so do you think you're going to be sober forever? I go, I don't know, but I'm going to be sober today. And
1:16 if I get through today, then I'll go for tomorrow. And I think there's a lesson in there for life as well, just in terms of how we approach our lives in general. But I am high off of my trip to
1:31 Calgary and Banff. I went up on Sunday, absolutely spectacular. My God, the weather was perfect. And shout out to Ashley Gilmore in tracks and the energy summit team who put the Banff energy
1:45 summit together, a little bit of golf, a little bit of poker, a lot of networking, some fantastic people, some majestic, magical, beautiful sights, highly recommend anybody that can get up to
1:57 Banff. So glad I got up there. go again. So with that, Justin Pines, my man, I'm going to hit you with the hardest and best question that I could ask. Who are you, man? Who is Justin Pines?
2:11 Who is Justin Pines? Well, aside from being a father, a son, a husband, you know, all the roles, right? A former athlete, management consultant, executive coach, all of that stuff.
2:30 I think I am somebody who I just, I love the idea of being alive. I think it's fleeting. And if you kind of zoom out over the bazillions of years of existence that we know about,
2:46 I feel like to be on this rock at this time, it's crazy, right? There's all kinds of stuff happening, good stuff, terrible stuff. You know, we're at a point where like, We know everything
2:60 about what we don't know everything, but we have access to so much more information at one time. And like, it's just a crazy time to be alive. So I would say, who am I? I am somebody with a zest
3:13 for life. I love making a difference and helping people. I have a pretty positive outlook on the future. I always think the best is yet to come And I just try and enjoy my day. I think the
3:30 universe wants people to be more joyful. And the more that we bring our joy and our energy and our unique skills to the world, the better off we are. So I try to embody that. I try to instill that
3:42 in my kids. I try to do that with my clients, you know, and kind of absorb. And
3:51 I use this really big crazy word without even knowing what it meant. And then I looked it up and it was the right word. Trying to transmogrify.
3:59 Um, well, why I like to make up words, but that's a big word to make that's a real word that's a real word. Um, I use
4:10 Yeah, so um to to kind of transmogrify, which is a crazy word that I used one time with a client just kind of flew out of my mouth and I didn't Know what it meant. And then I looked it up. Well,
4:23 after I said it and it was exactly the right word. I don't know how that happened, but it's one of those things and Yeah, like that's kind of my go like I want to
4:36 Yeah, basically what that means is to to transmute to take the energy and kind of manipulate it and convert it from like whatever it is which whether it's pain or sadness or grief or challenge or
4:50 frustration or guilt or anger or whatever and kind of maneuver it and add some chemicals and some sauce and some thinking, and this and that, and harness it into a really good thing, because
5:03 everything is all energy, right, and so
5:07 we're energy, the world is made of energy, I firmly believe that. And so, you know, our energy matters, and we've got to think about that. So, yeah, man, I hope I answered your question
5:20 suitably.
5:23 There's just a million directions we could go with you One of the things that you didn't mention is you're also a guitarist, right? A bit of a musician, a bit of a Renaissance man. You know, I
5:36 was put onto you by Greg Grotke, who I believe had some connection to your parents at some point in his career, I think, in the oil and gas base. I'm not totally even sure. But you said, Hey,
5:50 Jeremy, this is a guy that you should meet And it didn't take very long on our first call. I said, you know, this, this is a. This is a special dude, it's a versatile dude. It's somebody who
5:60 kind of lives on the same energy wavelength, I think, that I do where you're trying, despite all of the challenges and pains and difficulties of life, to kind of rise above it and see the best and
6:16 take the best of everything that's around you, which is hard to do. And I highly commend you for that. And you've been kind of a, I don't know, you're like a spirit guide I think beyond all of
6:27 the, the great work that you do, you know, with your clients and the pivots that you've made in your business, I do think that you help people find something that's innate in them, that may be
6:38 dormant and want to talk about that a little bit too. But you said something earlier kind of in your, you know, answering who are you about kind of like access to, to everything. And, and I had
6:51 a conversation with a friend of mine recently, which, which was really fascinating and it was. I think you're a little bit younger than me, but the point is like you and I grew up in a world where
7:02 we had a lot of questions, but we couldn't always get the answers to them. Now, like my kids, I see it. They have questions and they can get the answers to everything. So by the time they're
7:11 like a teenager, they have these like massive IQs and they know all the answers. Whereas I just had these questions that went unanswered until the internet started to give me answers when I was like
7:20 30, you know? So I find that to be a shift where people have access to everything and can get answers to their questions, which fundamentally is kind of a shift, right? It's a big shift. But
7:36 there's one thing I think that's important in what you're saying and, you know, it depends on the kinds of questions you're asking, right? 'Cause there are questions that have answers and then
7:45 there are questions that only you can answer. And then there are questions that nobody can answer, right? And like, like what happens after we die? I mean,
7:56 My dad died last year, my mom died 13 years ago. My grandparents died within three days of each other, one passed and then the joke of the family is like, my grandmother found a nice piece of real
8:11 estate. It was like, come on, Joe, 'cause every vacation, she was always like, come on, Joe, keep up, come on, come on. I mean, they were married 67 years and couldn't live without each
8:20 other, right? And so like, she passed and he followed three days later He had severe dementia, he didn't even know what was going on. So like, somehow he knew that, right? So there are these
8:30 questions that we, it depends what questions you're asking. Like information-wise, obviously, you know, how do I, I just moved into a new house. I told you, we moved to Baltimore from Philly a
8:44 month ago, August 1st. And, you know, I've been googling, I changed all the lights, 72 lights in this house. So changed. No kidding That's a lot. I've done, you know.
8:55 a million projects, like I just watched YouTube with my daughter, we have a porch swing, and the chains were rusted, and you know, I googled, like my daughter took my phone, she said, and we
9:06 were sitting on the porch swing, noticing the rusty chains, and she talks into the Google thing. Like, how do you clean rusty chains, right? And like, up pops a YouTube video, and we watched
9:19 it, and like literally this morning, I just took the chains down, put them in a bucket of white vinegar, and they're soaking for a week, stirring around a couple of times, going to be brand new,
9:29 right? Like, yeah, that's amazing.
9:31 But you could even get answers like, you know, maybe there's Coca Cola option, or there's like, you know, baking soda and white vinegar, right? Like, there will be, well, there's a few
9:41 different ways to do it. Maybe there's some over the counter stuff you can buy, maybe there's stuff that's just sitting around in your house that you could use to clean those rusty chains. But the
9:49 point is like, that would be the type of thing where my dad would have had to ask like a neighbor or something. It's like, well, Kevin's handy. He should know the answer to this, right? And you
9:60 know, Kevin gives him the answer because he's a handy guy.
10:04 Or back in the day, trial and error, right? Yeah. You just start boring shit on the chain or scrubbing it or licking it, or I don't know. Right. And then all of a sudden you cut your finger and
10:15 you have to go to the hospital and thought maybe I should have like somebody else do this. There's this awesome oyster house. I mean, I know you've been the Baltimore handful of times There's a
10:23 place called Riley's, Riley's Oyster. And on the top of their menu, it says, it was a brave man who first ate noiscer.
10:36 Yeah, oh man. Trial and error. Life, man. So you've had a lot of change, obviously. First things first, I'm sorry to hear that you're effectively an orphan now. You lost your parents.
10:49 Obviously 13 years ago is a long time, I'm sure there are days where you still really miss your mom. And then it's more fresh. The wounds are more fresh with your, with your dad's passing about a
10:60 year ago. And that's around the time you and I started talking, you were, you know, certainly going through it, but I was still impressed with the positivity that you, that you took. You know,
11:10 and I don't want to, you know, make this a therapy session, although if that's where it goes, it's where it goes. But like, what are some of the learnings now that your parents aren't with you,
11:18 that you think you sort of carry with you day to day? And in some ways, like celebrate and honor them through things that they taught you. Yeah, well, the first thing, so I appreciate that, and
11:30 it's a really good question. There have been so many, and each parent individually and then kind of collectively is like, you know, I think about it, like, I couldn't get the thought out of my
11:42 mind after my mom passed, I was 28 when she died. Yeah
11:49 I just, this recurring thing. thought that has stuck with me was like she equipped me with everything she needed to equip me with, right? And she was, they had very different roles in my life.
12:00 And, you know, you think more of like the dad as the disciplinarian and kind of the, like, and the mom is more kind of motherly and warm. And they were kind of not the opposite, but my mom was
12:12 like, she was
12:16 a pistol. I don't know how to describe it, but she was just, and she was that way. She was a badass consultant. She coached executives. How Greg Grock you got to know my parents was at the
12:28 consulting company they worked for, which I then worked for years later. But
12:35 my mom coached the CEO of Noble Energy and the CEO of Bigger Hughes and the CEO, like she was, you know, she coached them. She was their spirit guide, quote unquote I mean, not, not, not way,
12:48 but, you know, from a management consultant. business standpoint. And this was back in the early 2000s, as a lot of these breakthroughs were happening around discovery. And this was, they were
13:02 doing exploration. Fracking was kind of a new technology. There was a lot going on. The Marcelle Shale was just kind of discovered and opening up the noble discovered this huge deposit off the
13:17 coast of Israel. And that was a whole world They were navigating with nothing. It was like a big deal, right? She was a big deal. And she had this kind of double edged sword of incredible
13:23 sweetness and authenticity and heartfulness with the sharpest tongue you've ever heard. Like her words just pierced through. She could see through all bullshit, like immediately, right? So that's
13:23 just how it was.
13:51 And it was kind of incredible, right? And so one of the lessons that I took from her,
13:60 one, she equipped me with everything I needed to know, but it also was like, she wasn't gone, she was gone physically, but I could still access like what she would say to me and how she would
14:12 think about something and kind of the integrity that she instilled in me, like I could continue to live that way, right? So that was a major thing from her, as well as like taking yourself
14:23 seriously, she took herself super seriously and I think that was how she accomplished so much. Like she didn't let people mess with her and she didn't mess with herself.
14:35 On the my dad's side, my dad was like a fun lover, lover of life. Like that dude, he was a hippie-dippy. He, you know, it was a musician. He was a teacher, he was a carpenter He lived in so
14:50 many places. places. He worked all over the world. He started internet cafes in Latin America in partnership with the World Bank. He ran a foundation for youth. He worked on Native American
15:06 reservations to help end alcoholism and domestic abuse among the young men, right? And I have a story related to that that we can talk about later. But
15:21 yeah, I mean, he was he was a true Renaissance man, right? And like, he grew up in Baltimore, and he kind of revolted from, I don't know if you know, like the Baltimore culture, but it's very
15:32 kind of insular and like, yeah, I would agree. And insular and like kind of
15:39 keeping up with the Jones isn't the right way to say it, but it's, it can be materialistic. And my dad was the opposite of that, right? He was spiritualistic and I'm just. cared about people.
15:51 He started an outdoor learning center. He was a teacher at Baltimore Friends. That's how he and my mom met. And he started an outdoor learning center because he realized that these kids sit in a
16:02 classroom all day, but like they need to experience the like nature and life and like leadership skills and and try but doing stuff right and trying things and trusting each other and building
16:13 relationships. And so
16:17 here we are. I actually joined the board of that at the 43 year 44 years later that organization is still going a million students have gone through it. It's like 20 miles north up in Parkton,
16:28 Maryland and it's called Genesee Valley Outdoor Learning Center and it's incredible. We're like fundraising for it now on the vice chair of the board and you know it's just it's incredible right and
16:39 so like he left this legacy of don't waste your one here like enjoy yourself and and follow your heart. wherever that leads, 'cause it's usually the right place and trust your instincts. And so
16:54 I've been doing that more and more, whether it's like a person who I haven't talked to floats into my mind, and rather than just kind of let the thought pass, I take my phone out and call them
17:03 immediately, right? And like, usually that person picks up and is like, hey, I was thinking about you and I was like, that's crazy, 'cause you just popped into my mind, right? And,
17:14 or just trusting an instinct to have about something So those are some deep question as a long, long convoluted answer, but yeah, there have been so many things I've learned over the last 12, 13
17:30 years. And obviously the only thing that I wish is that my mom got to meet my kids. That's really only thing I wish that never happened. But
17:44 that's it Yeah, so is life and death, sadly. Um, you know, earlier this summer, uh, my, well, first of all, I don't want to just shift the conversation to me. I'm going to bring it back to
17:56 you. But, you know, earlier this summer, um, my dad had emergency open heart surgery. He had a torn aorta, um, which is how his mom passed 79 years old. He had internal bleeding. They had to
18:09 get him on a helicopter and take him to Manchester, New Hampshire for, uh, get him on the table right now, or he might not make it And the thoughts that he's fine. He's actually doing awesome.
18:22 The doctor took care of him. Um, he's doing cardiac rehab. And in a lot of ways, it was a needed wake up call for him. He almost didn't make it to the wake up call, right? Um, but, but he did.
18:36 And, you know, he looks healthier. He, he sounds healthier. He's moving around more. I think he's taking things a little bit less for granted And it has, you know, a kind of an outlook on make
18:47 the most of you know, what's going to be his his 80s, you know, which is kind of cool to see. But I was having a lot of thoughts around, you know, what I would miss the most with my dad. I
18:59 think for one, he, he's, he wasn't ready to go. Like he's not ready to go yet. He's still very, very sharp, you know, former professor of psychology for over 40 years and very intelligent,
19:12 one of the smartest people that I've ever met Booksmart. But really, like, what it started to come down to is like, actually, like, what would be the saddest thing for me is that he would miss
19:23 out on the grandkids growing up, not just my kids, but my sister's kids. And, and, and that's sort of what stuck with me is like, more than your kids need you, because we're grown, we're all
19:34 in our 40s, your, your grandkids need you, right? And, and that's sort of what it came down to So that really hit the nail on the head for me and resonated and I can completely
19:46 understand I haven't lived it, but I can only imagine how that does stand out as what's sad.
19:55 But beyond that,
19:57 it almost sounds like you're kind of a combination of both, right? Because I think that you can lean into that lighter, you know, airier, hippie-ish side. But then again, when you need to be
20:08 firm, I've seen you be firm. And I think that that works well with you when you do work with some of these high-powered executives at small and big companies that do feel some level of stuck.
20:20 Sometimes they need to hear things in a very direct manner. And I think that that's one of the things that you do extremely well. Talk a little bit about
20:31 your upbringing, like where did you grow up, where did you go to school? Like kind of lead me to the path of what took you, I guess, now to the Baltimore area after a move from the Philly area
20:44 Yeah, so I grew up in DC
20:47 my right on Capitol Hill and my parents decided to move from Capitol Hill to Silver Spring after I walked out to school one day on the street and we had a tiny little front, I don't know, it was on
21:06 Fifth Street and Ice Street or something. There was a bunch of row houses and they had these little front yard gates with steps up and their brown stones And so I was like, I walked out the front
21:18 door and I was like, sitting on the steps, waiting for my parents to take me to school and this guy was running down the street with blood dripping down the back and this other guy was running and
21:28 chasing him with a knife. And so my parents like, okay, I think we're gonna move, so. Suburbs, suburbs have pretty good right about now. So we moved to Silver Spring, which is like the first
21:39 suburb right off 16th street outside of DC Um, we, um, I really grew up, you know, it was like lovely suburban life, frankly, I was on a cul-de-sac, it wasn't a cul-de-sac, it was more like a
21:55 circle, but it was a block in the middle and a street that went all around it and there were houses on both sides. So it was this big circle that was just kind of nestled at the top of this hill.
22:05 And we all rode bikes and played soccer together and all that good stuff. I went to a Montessori school through first grade and I switched to a school called Green Acres, which was in Rockville,
22:18 Maryland. And they emphasized experiential education, right? So it wasn't as much like
22:28 yet, of course, we studied subjects and we had, you know, curriculums and all that math and science and Spanish and language and everything. But there was a lot also about, you know, nature and
22:42 athletics and camaraderie leadership in the physical education.
22:47 So I went there through eighth grade, I really enjoyed it. I have fond memories of that place. Actually, my cousin's wife actually is a teacher there now, which is hilarious. And the same Jim,
22:60 Jim teacher. His name is Derek, but is there. The same Jim teacher. Yeah, 30 years later. Just slightly different attire. I can only imagine the sweatsuits that he used to show up with in like
23:14 1992. I mean, he's great. I love that guy He was so funny. Anyway, yeah. So, and then we moved from, so then I had one year, that school ended in eighth grade. I went to Georgetown day
23:26 school for one year and made all new friends in that grade, you know, all that joint soccer team that my parents moved to Philly.
23:34 And it was so interesting because I, the soccer was kind of taking off in my life. And I had decided I didn't want to go to private school wanted to go to public school. Um, because at that point,
23:49 you know, I was 14 and I was like big into soccer. Um, and I wanted to live near my friends. Like I didn't care as much academically about the school. I cared socially, and that was my
24:05 orientation. And so they were like, great. We're not going to pay private school. Awesome Tuition, you know, cool, also like, you know, it was five minutes from our house. So I went to a
24:21 school called Strathaven High School. It happened to be an excellent school in Pennsylvania, in the Philadelphia suburbs. Play soccer
24:30 there, everyone states. You're at join an incredible club soccer team with one nationals. And then we lost, we almost won back to back national championships
24:43 Yeah, it was like a great high school experience, fell in love with me. So the Eagles, through Boston,
24:50 you got the crown right now, it used to be the big joke in the NFC East, like here's the meme, the Eagles trophy case, right? And it was empty. Well, things have changed now. Got a couple of
25:04 those and looking poised to potentially get another one. You never know. We'll see what happens. I was surprised we did it without Jason Kelsey, but hey
25:16 So all that to say, I think I mentioned earlier, my parents met teaching at Baltimore Friends. What led, I went to college at Northwestern, I played soccer, I was a goalkeeper, I walked on as a
25:28 teacher for the football team,
25:31 which was wild. And then I
25:35 moved back to Philadelphia and had been there for, you know, I met my wife She was living in Baltimore at the time, her family's from here, as I mentioned in mine. dad is from Baltimore, his
25:48 extended family's here. But my wife moved up to Philly
25:53 and we created a light together. You know, got engaged, bought a house, started our family there. She worked at Children's Hospital for 12 years as a nurse in the NICU and then got her nurse
26:07 practitioner's degree. And then it was an NP, a pediatric infectious disease, that chopped, which was very interesting during the pandemic.
26:18 And, you know, I was working remotely the last five years as a girl at the time, the management consultant, and, you know, burned out hard and wanted to spend more time with my family and less
26:31 travel and all that stuff. So,
26:34 yeah, long story short, I think, with the situation around my dad, how my family stepped up, the support we felt, the connection I saw between to your point, my kids. and Rachel's parents,
26:49 they're bubby and pop up. Like it was just being close to each other and my niece and nephew and Rachel's sister and her husband are here five minutes away. It's like, what could be better? So we
27:01 moved to your August 1st. The kids went to two weeks of camp with their cousins. Like, you know, I came home yesterday from some errands and like my daughter, you know, we've been here three
27:13 weeks And like, earlier in the week, they went down the street to a neighbor who's a friend of her sisters and has three kids. And like, their girl who's eight came over and like, they were just
27:25 playing in the front yard in the driveway. Like, we had the screen porch open. It was just like suburbia. Like, what our upbringing was, right? Where you could run around and enjoy life and
27:36 like, not worry about it. And you can't do that in the streets of Philadelphia. We lived in Fishtown, which was lovely, but sorry, we're not letting our five and seven-year-old out of the house
27:45 to go roam the streets.
27:49 Sounds like a little bit similar to your path, right? Like, you know, obviously growing up in the city, basically on Capitol Hill, and then boom, out to the burbs, and you kind of did the same
27:60 thing, you know? And it makes sense, it makes sense. I mean, this is why the suburbs exist, I love it. Like, I grew up in the country. So, you know, we had a plot of land that was maybe an
28:11 acre, which was considered like not even that big of a plot of land where I lived in Northern New Hampshire. An acre here would be worth, God even knows how much money, but a lot, we don't have
28:24 an acre. But yeah, I love the burbs too. I mean, it's similar for our kids with neighbors everywhere. You know, my oldest gets a ride to school with another high school kid that's in the
28:36 neighborhood. My son just sort of takes his basketball to one of the various different, hoops that send other people's driveways and just goes out and shoot hoops until, you know, we have to yell
28:47 at them to come back in and come on, it's time to go to bed or it's time to eat dinner or take a bath or whatever, but, but it is, it's special. Um, sort of that like forced insular nature of
28:58 suburbia. People can crap on it all they want. I love it. Um, and I think for kids, it's, it's an amazing way to grow up.
29:06 You, you glossed over your college experience. I didn't realize that you, um, for one, went to Northwestern, but two played multiple sports. How, how were you able to balance like a very
29:18 challenging education? I'm assuming with playing multiple division one sports. I don't know. Like anything else, you just do it. Cause it's just figured, you just figure it out. Yeah. I mean,
29:30 there were some professors who like could give two shits that I was, you know, missing class because I was traveling and I had a game on Friday and a game on Sunday. And, you You know, like,
29:41 they're just. didn't care or they didn't understand or whatever. But most professors got it and, you know, I wasn't like,
29:53 I was a late bloomer academically. Let's just say that. Now, I was always one of those people who hate me for saying this, but like, I could do really well on tests without, you know, like a
30:05 cram and kind of absorb stuff. I mean, retention is another thing. But I wasn't like, you know, get the textbook and plot out my week and read on Tuesdays and Thursdays and then I was like, okay,
30:18 I look at the syllabus. When are the tests? What do I need to do to do well? Like, that was my strategy. And it worked, right? And so like, there were times where I really had to buckle down
30:28 and block everyone out and study for like a week, do well and all that and like, you know, but as I mentioned to you, my orientation was social and athletics. That was my orientation
30:43 around my senior year, maybe it was after my junior season. No, my junior season. So I tore my knee in
30:56 pre-season my junior year, and I was out for the season immediately. And like, that was my second surgery in three years. I tore my shoulder before that. But that was, I had surgery in the
31:08 off-season. And so I was fine for the regular season But my junior year, when I tore my shoulder, I was like, man, two surgeries in three years. Like, I was considering a professional career.
31:20 The MLS had just kind of started a little bit. Like it was like eight years in. There were some scouts out there with the New York New Jersey Metro Stars and DC United. And Chicago Fire was in our
31:31 backyard. And we knew the coach, a guy named Jesse Marsh, who's awesome. And
31:39 I had some friends who had graduated and we're playing in. in the MLS and like,
31:46 I am pretty self-aware. I was a very good goalkeeper, but I was not an extraordinary goalkeeper. My strength, I was athletic and I was very good, but my main strength was in how I kind of
32:04 commanded and oriented the defense. Like I talked a lot, I was basically a coach on the field, right? And like maneuvering people around and that was like, and then yes, when I had to try and I
32:17 did, but like I'm six, six one on a good day. You know, I'm not like six, six. So I had a lot of weak points and I would have been a second string goalie in the MLS. And the second string
32:31 goalie only gets a shot when the first string goalie gets hurt.
32:37 And
32:40 the average salary, somebody who was on the bench was19, 000 a year. So I had a friend who was literally on food stamps and had to work a second job, who was in the MLS, right? And I was like,
32:56 this is bananas. Like, I have my Northwestern degree costs like two and a half times that a year. More than that. Like, what? I mean, and so, you know, I just kind of realized like, okay,
33:09 it's not a feasible career. Now, I walked on as a kicker. And part of one of the only regrets I have in life is that I didn't kick field goals earlier in my athletic tenure because I wanted to,
33:26 but I was too scared to do it. And so I finally got over my fear like late in my senior year of college and it took me a 30, I emailed the football coach and he asked me to come out and I kicked two
33:40 balls too. two balls and he was like, you're on the team. That was it. That was it. Like walking onto a big 10 college soccer team, college football team with two kicks of a ball. I was like,
33:51 you idiot, why didn't you do this? Like six years ago, eight years ago. I could have like, 'cause that felt so easy. I don't know anyway. That's the only regret I have. But yeah, it was crazy.
34:05 It was crazy. So, well, I didn't even know that part of your life, but I love hearing about that You know, that's fun. And, you know, certainly I think there's a lot to be taken in, you know,
34:17 you've got a management consulting background, but there's also been a lot of sales that you've had to do. And I think entrepreneurship requires sales in a lot of different facets. And I think that
34:28 a lot of the discipline and, you know, skills and process that you obtain from being a college athlete transfer very well to sales and business that's something that I look for. in my team too,
34:41 just 'cause I know, you know, sometimes as an athlete, you have to push through uncomfortable situations and you need to just figure it out. And it's similar, I think, to sales and business.
34:52 And a lot of those qualities, you know, transcend sports and transition nicely to the business world. I wanna transition to your career. So you mentioned kind of five years, hustling management,
35:04 consulting on the road, a little bit of burnout, relatable. You know, I understand that. But talk to me a little bit about kind of your, your professional avenues and I guess what's, you know,
35:16 what's ahead of you right now as well? But walk me through a little bit of the career stuff. Sure. So I spent a decade and a half as a management consultant. I joined the company that my parents
35:30 were working for was called Gap Internationals based out of Philly. We did transformational consulting with CEOs, executive teams, large organizations. programs and services for smaller businesses.
35:42 And one of the things I loved was leading this program called the executive challenge course for business owners and their kind of leadership teams or people who had like important execution oriented
35:53 jobs. Like maybe not they themselves were doing the execution, but they were in charge of leading like an initiative or a project or something, right? And like it was a nine to 12 month program
36:05 and I coached them through the envisioning of it to the execution and delivery of it. Like our goal at the end of the program is that they have produced whatever result they envisioned at the
36:15 beginning, right? And so that was always a rewarding, fulfilling process. But our management consulting was that too. So I did that for 15 years, but you know, when the pandemic hit, it just
36:27 like you were mentioning, the burnout, priorities changed, my parents were no longer there, my dad had retired, my mom had passed It just wasn't. It didn't
36:38 feel the same. but I was leading sales for the company and I was rewarding, right? And I enjoyed that process and getting to know clients and kind of understanding their issues and all of that.
36:50 And so left that in 2022 became a VP of sales and customer success and new market entry for a marketing company where we put B2B events together. And like at the time four different industries and by
37:08 the time I was done like six or seven industries. That's a lot. Events in general, especially when you're dealing with having hitting professionals is challenging. But yeah, not to cut you off.
37:21 You and I have talked about this part a little bit too, but talk to me about what that was like because you're talking about people that are looking for some sort of result. They want access to
37:31 executives. They normally wouldn't get access to. You have to manage both sides of that It's probably not an inexpensive proposition. or whoever is paying for the access. And then you have to also
37:42 make sure that everything goes smoothly and that it's done professionally and in a way that's up to your brand. I could see that also creating some level of stress and burnout too. So I burned out.
37:55 So I, 15 years of management consulting and about 18 months of that. You're like, ooh. I mean, it was a little bit longer, but you know, I was there for just under a year before my dad was
38:08 diagnosed with brain cancer. And around that time, like shortly before it, I was really starting to struggle. Like, there were some ethical things I wasn't thrilled with, some things I was kind
38:20 of forced to do. But, you know, it was just, it was exciting. It was fun. I loved the model. And to your point, like kind of the access of bringing both parties together. And there was a lot
38:33 of good, but it wasn't right for me. and knew that but the money was really good and I felt kind of these handcuffs right and so that was part of the struggle and then when my dad was diagnosed with
38:47 cancer like that concern about the money like it just the perspective completely changed right and it was like okay well what actually matters like time with my dad who was like basically given a
39:00 death sentence or like trying to make money you know and
39:05 it was a pretty easy answer and so
39:11 yeah that kind of then led me down a path towards starting my own executive coaching company which was interesting because I started it
39:24 about the summer of
39:28 2024 last summer and you know quickly got a couple of clients
39:36 but something in me was like, this is not it. Like, this is not it. And that was hard because I didn't know what else to do, but I knew that it wasn't it. But I also, it was a skill set that I
39:48 didn't need to try for, 'cause I'd been doing it for a long time, and it was easy. But it just didn't feel right, like doing that for the rest of my career. And so
40:01 about six months ago, my wife and I, you know, obviously the calendar had changed. It was like winter, and my wife and I got clear, we wanted to move the ball to me. And so as part of that, I
40:16 trusted this instinct, you know, that I talked about earlier, trusting my instincts. And I trusted this instinct to take a step back and actually just press pause on
40:27 work in that way And my job became actually moving my family from. Philadelphia to Baltimore. And then I was like, I'm going to take care of everything. So we were going to rent our house. We
40:44 needed to fix our house up, including renovating the backyard, repainting the whole house, fixing everything, getting my kids into schools. So that whole admissions process and understanding it
40:56 and the interviews and liaising with the schools, blah, blah, blah,
41:01 the finding a house in that whole world, organizing our finances, looking at houses and driving out of the Baltimore, fixing my dad's house up that I inherited because we want to Airbnb that. It
41:14 was just like all of a sudden this world that I - to me, that became work. And I found tons of joy and satisfaction in that. And so it's crazy because I had that kind of vision in January. And
41:30 then in February, March, I gave my health permission do it and to a T, all of it has happened. exactly as envisioned. And so the end of that vision was getting to Baltimore and meeting really
41:43 cool people, right? And that was kind of the end of it. And so about three, four weeks ago,
41:53 I was having lunch with my great uncle. This is going somewhere related to your question. I was having lunch with my great uncle, who's 95. And he goes to work every day. He runs a law firm here
42:02 at Baltimore called Levin Gann Yep. And he is an incredible human being. He was asking me what I wanted to do when I got here. And I was like Stanford, I really don't know. I really don't.
42:19 And we were talking through my skill set and all that. And he was like,
42:25 why don't you be a business broker? Why don't you
42:30 love working with business owners? You love coaching. You have that kind of, you know, you can deal with executives. talk to anybody, you know, sales, like your good relationships person, why
42:41 don't you do that? I was like, oh, I left that and I kind of left the idea of marinade for a couple of weeks. And I was like, you know what? Let me learn about business. I don't know. I don't
42:52 know. So I started listening to a podcast and the CEO of this company called Transworld Business Advisors was on. Andy, yeah. He was on and I liked what he had to say. And so I looked him up on
43:08 LinkedIn and his phone number was on there. So I just called him and he answered.
43:15 Andy and I had this little conversation. I was like, I heard you on a podcast. I looked you up. Your number was right there. I called you. And he was like, I'm glad you did. So we chatted for
43:24 a little bit. He was like, let me refer you to to armor. He's my guy in the Baltimore, you know, kind of Maryland region. And yeah, so that was like a month ago. I had one conversation send me
43:36 an offer. We worked out some, you know, some details. And in two weeks, I fly to West Palm Beach to, you know, do a full training week. But, you know, I've got a client who I was coaching,
43:49 who's looking to value and potentially sell their business. You know, that was why I reached out a couple of weeks ago. I was like, I'm curious how you like,
43:57 you know, your process. But, um, yeah. Anyway, so I'm like incredibly excited. I feel like it's leveraging all of the skills I've built throughout my career, from management consulting, sales,
44:09 relationship, working with business owners, helping them, representing, yeah, I just, it feels good, right? And so it's very different from anything I've done. And I kind of like that. But
44:23 yeah, man. So that's, uh, that's what's on the horizon. Well, congratulations. And I didn't know that. That's fantastic. And I
44:34 It's an offline conversation you and I can have knowing that I've worked with trans world advisors before. Arthur Byzner, my business broker here is just incredible. Super hard worker, I think as
44:46 an entrepreneur, you want somebody that can match your level of hustle, meet you where you're at, and also understand that this is business, but it's extremely personal for me because this is my
44:59 business. And not devalue that Don't be an investment banker. Brokering the sale of a small business is no small feat. I think 80 because of the emotional side of it, 20 maybe because of the
45:15 financial and the business impact of it. And those numbers could be different, but that was my experience. I got a question for you. We only have a few minutes left here. I know we could go on
45:25 forever, but dude, how are you so zen? I mean, seriously, let's take this a step back your dad passed away. right, which was obviously heavy. You loved your dad, right? You speak highly of
45:37 it. It's obvious that he was a special person to you. And, you know, maybe you're the executive of the estate. I don't know. You inherited the house. Clearly, that's something you you moved.
45:47 You changed and pivoted your business, right? You put your kids into a new school, you moved cities. Like these are all like literally some of the biggest life events that anybody can have. And
45:60 it seems like you've just taken it and strived. I feel like I would have, if I were you, I would have canceled this podcast because I'd just be in this world of like stress and anxiety and I don't
46:12 even know what to do, right? I probably wouldn't be meeting people to talk about my next career as a business broker two weeks into living in Baltimore. But dude, how do you, how are you so zen?
46:22 And maybe that's some of what you help coach people on, but
46:26 I don't get it. How are you this level headed and this smooth because these to me are any one of these things. a move, career change, the passing of a loved one, getting your kids into a new
46:38 school in a new city, moving. Like, how? How do you do it?
46:46 Um,
46:49 it's like asking a fish, you know, how do
46:54 you swim? I don't know. I mean, in one regard, right? But in another regard, I do work very hard. On my self, and on my mindset, and I have, I've spent a lot of time understanding myself.
47:13 And I think, you know, I'm at a point in my life where, and I really did realize this with my dad's passing in particular, is
47:31 the emotion of. anxiety and stress is a and fear and all of that it's a it's a it's a bodily mechanism right it's it's a chemical reaction and it is a response that's designed to make you more alert
47:49 it's designed to raise your awareness it's designed to to to you know and so i i think i've found a way part mostly through intentionality but also maybe just through practice and now it's a little
48:06 more natural to move into that state of what i call flow like i've studied that and you know we've all experienced that to some degree and and kind of i think when i told you that last fall when you
48:25 and i met i was actually while i was zen and kind of a coaching situation, like in my life, I felt very discombobulated and kind of, 'cause I wasn't sure what to do. I felt in transition, you
48:41 know, my dad had passed and all this stuff. But I think what I'm trying to say is I'm one of the ways I maintain Zen is that I've learned to accept things as they are very fast, right? 'Cause I've
48:55 found acceptance is the fastest route to peace. And if you can have peace and peace of mind, you can think and you can create and you can bring yourself to what it is that's in front of you. And if
49:08 you don't, if you have stress and you have anxiety and you have burdens and these layers of stuff, you have to go through all of that to just get through it, right? Like it's hard to think. And
49:21 so all of the experiences I had and kind of that burnout I talked about that, you know, while it took 15 years as a management team, It took 18 months, I think because I've gotten so much quicker
49:31 at knowing what's right for me and what's not right for me and like love the money aspect, but that wasn't worth sacrificing my spirituality and my relationships and my dadhood and myself, right?
49:46 And so I think it's important to have these experiences and know what you don't want as much as what you do And I've just kind of made a pact with myself, like actually at the beginning of this year,
49:56 I just made this commitment to myself. I'm not going to complain this year about anything.
50:04 Because why would I? I'm alive, I'm breathing, I'm relatively healthy, I have a beautiful family. I have
50:15 things that people would envy, like, you know, so I'm not going to complain about what I have And if I have something I don't like, then I'm just gonna deal with it or fix it or whatever. Or just
50:27 be with it. And so I don't know. I think that
50:35 that's something that I try and bring to other people and share with other people and help them kind of figure that out for themselves. 'Cause they're not gonna be me and I can't be them, but I can
50:46 kind of understand who you are and help you kind of be that more. So that's kind of what I'm trying to do in everything I do, whether it's as a friend or as a colleague or as a coach or if I'm
51:04 representing you to sell your business, right? Like, I wanna understand what do you want, right? And like, how do I hope you get that, so? I love it, man. Really, this has been awesome and
51:15 you and I probably need to schedule a little more time, whether it's for other people to hear or just for you and I to dive into. But it's like, every time I have a conversation with you, every
51:25 time I listen to you speak. It's obvious that you've done the work, right? You've done the hard stuff to learn yourself, which I think a lot of us just sort of bypass. And there's a lot of
51:38 lessons in here. I'm looking forward to listening to this one because clearly acceptance has been a big part of your evolution and you talked about flow state, which I love. Anyways, it's a long
51:51 weekend. I'm going up to the mountains. I'm gonna run Justin Pines You are the man and thank you so much for being you and coming out with the funk. Thank you, man.