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The Moonshots Podcast goes behind the scenes of the world's greatest superstars, thinkers and entrepreneurs to discover the secrets to their success. We deconstruct their success from mindset to daily habits so that we can apply it to our lives. Join us as we 'learn out loud' from Elon Musk, Brene Brown to emerging talents like David Goggins.
Hello and welcome to the moonshots podcast. It's episode 158. I'm your co-host Mike Parsons. And as always, I'm joined by the defender of food himself. Mr. Mark Pearson Freeland. Good morning. Hey, good morning, Mike. I know that your one to abstain from food early in the morning, but I've got to tell you and our listeners I've already had some breakfast, so I'm sorry to say, sorry to tempt you.
But I did want to get into the swing of today's topic by starting off with a good old Brexit. And what is your breakfast of choice, man? I tend to stick to some mostly light breakfasts. I've got to admit something not too heavy to get started. So today it was a bit of toast, a bit of. Some pretty honest stuff and right now our listeners are thinking, did I tune into the wrong pocket?
Is [00:01:00] this a food and breakfast podcast? It is today. Isn't it more? Yeah, it is today. We're digging into Michael Pollan's in defense of food (Available on Amazon) and eaters as manifesto and Mike, just to set the scene for you and our listeners, where in show number three. In our health series after we've covered patch and McCowen's the oxygen advantage (Available on Amazon) in episode number one.
So that was show number 156 as well as last week. Matthew. Walker's why we sleep the new science of sleep and dreams. So bearing in mind, we've got a bit of information about breathing a bit about sleeping today, you and our listeners and me, we're all diving into food. And one of my favorite authors, I have to say Michael Polen the author of, in defense of food and many other books around food and healthy diets.
Real breakthrough for me, [00:02:00] I cannot I cannot encourage our listeners more than to just jump in. Grab this book enjoy this show for as like a taster of what's to come from Michael Pollan. I really found this for anybody who just wants to eat well, feel well and be at their best. This book not only gives you the roadmap, it sets the context, mark, and it is a huge wake up call.
So as we get to the end of 2021, and you might be a little bit tented over the Christmas break to overindulge, I'm sure. Enjoy a moment with friends and some real traits. But as we turn into the new year of 2022, if there was ever a time that we wanted to focus on health it's now, and I think this book in defense of food is.
On one [00:03:00] hand, like a fantastic roadmap of how to think about your own diet, what you eat, what you put into your body. But some of us need a little bit of a wake-up call and Mark Michael serves it up in this book. Yeah, Michael's going to not only help us reevaluate what it is that we're purchasing as well as we're putting into our bodies, but don't worry your listeners, that he does have some proactive tips for us.
And it's not all doom and gloom. Nobody has to put down the knife and fork and start starving yourself. This is not a. Podcast. We are not a diet show. We're all about how to transform ourselves into the best version of ourselves. And I think if we look across the health series, Mike, we've understood a lot more about the effects of breathing and how we can take control of that as well as maximize our ability to be Hong conscious.
When we go to sleep and have a good night's rest today, it's about food. We all love [00:04:00] it. So let's make sure we understand. And start to take proactive choices when we're evaluating what it is that we're going to stop. Mark, I'm a hungry for his thinking. Let's dive into the world of, in defense of food by Michael Pollan.
Where do you want? I want to start with a mantra that our listeners may well already be aware of. It's something. In fact, Mike, that we've referenced a couple of times on the moonshots show in the past. So I want to give the author a chance, Michael Pollan, a chance to help define. What it is that he's pretty well known for on the back of, in defense of food and all of his series on food.
And this mantra is eat food, mostly plants, not too much. So let's hear from Michael breaking down this manifest. Michael, you use a simple framework for delivering a lot of your advice on how to approach one's relationship with food. And what comes to mind is your kind of month rhe eat food, [00:05:00] not too much, mostly plants.
Coming up with those seven words, which I'm afraid will be on my gravestone, unless I don't, unless I come up with something better soon is is the result of a very long process of examining the science of nutrition. But as I got deeper into. Deeper. I realized actually the key issue is, are you eating real food or what I like to call edible food like substances, which is to say processed foods.
And so the phrase eat food. I realized that's really what you need to know to eat well, eat food by which I mean real food. But then I realized that isn't quite enough because we're also eating too many calories. So not too much became part of the mantra. And then lastly, I was like, Within the range of foods, is there a class that's better than another class?
And one of the things we know is that people eat lots of plant foods, tend to have much better health and better longevity than people read a heavy meat [00:06:00] diet. So mostly plants, not all plants, mostly is I'm trying to be very reasonable and although it tends to offend both vegetarians and carnivores, when you say mostly plants, so eat food, not too much, mostly plants is basically, I think all.
Now each food is probably the hardest part of that to understand, because this isn't all that stuff in the supermarket food. I would argue it's not. And I would argue a lot of it are relatively new, highly processed edible food, like substances that really are what gets most people into trouble around eating.
They tend to have lots of refined sugars, lots of refined fats and very little fiber. Very little of the antioxidants you find in plants. And basically there, they were designed for long shelf life, these processed foods, and the way you make your food last longer is you take out what is [00:07:00] nutritionally valuable?
I'm talking about omega-3 fatty acids. I'm talking about five or all these things don't store. So we've gone down a path of eating a lot of things that shouldn't be dignified with that beautiful word food. Wow, that really is right between the eyes or perhaps it's a bit of a belly blow a gut shot eat food, mostly plants, not too much.
And mark, I know we have mentioned this many times on the many years of this show, but I want to stress to our listeners that what Michael Poland offers in his. In defense of food is these three aha moments, which is realize listeners that often, what we think is food is so full of preservatives that in order to preserve the food, you must remove the food.
So [00:08:00] he's basically saying, make sure you're eating. Stuff that is actually food. And what I love about this next part of the mantra is he says mostly finance. So he's not Hey fellows, everyone's going to go vegan. No, he's like mostly plants. And make sure it's green, make sure that you're eating things that have fiber in them.
And lastly, and this is huge for Western culture. Not too much. Like our portions are crazy, absolutely crazy. I have a funny story to tell you. So I had just moved to the U S after living in in London and I ordered a smoothie and they, I think the. The person that the canvas said do you want like a regular lodge?
And I was like, really wanted to have a healthy [00:09:00] smoothie. It was the day I just arrived in SF. And they had me, what was, I think, a 16 ounce smoothie that was so big. I actually couldn't hold it with one hand. I needed two hands to hold it. And because I'd been in Europe where the portion sizes are smaller than the U S I was just so shocked at the size of this smoothie.
And. Really a cold to arms from Michael Poland to create a moment just like I described, make sure what you're eating is actually a food like. Most of the time it's kind of plant. And lastly, hold on to those portion sizes and just calm down with the those massive buckets of beverage or like platters of food.
Take it easy and eat food. Mostly plants, not too much is a mantra that I can encourage you mark. And [00:10:00] all of our listeners hold onto it because yet its beauty is in its simplicity. And it's power. Pretty good stuff. Yeah. And I think you're right. It is actually pretty simple. I think that's really the thing that stands out to me in my columns, in defense of food, they're very actionable.
They're very ownable by us when we made conscious decisions about what we're purchasing and what we're eating, and they, it's a mantra. It's only seven words. It's a mantra that you can bear in mind when you're. Considering what it is that you're going to serve or you going to order. And for me, I certainly fall down on one of those of the three mantras, which were later.
But I quite like the mostly plants element again, building on what you were just saying. Michael is saying we will have to turn vegan. He's not encouraging us necessarily to step entirely away from [00:11:00] meat based. So we're not here listeners to campaign against those who are eating meat.
Instead, what I think is stands out to me with the mostly plants element it's because you can identify it as real. You can see that a piece of kale or cauliflower is indeed a bit of kale or cauliflower. Whereas sometimes especially when you're grabbing something convenience, food, fast food, it's tough to really identify what it is.
So I think this idea of eating the real food, as opposed to how Michael describes a kind of edible, a fake version of food, it's a lot easier to do with plants. I think. And I think that's what really stands out to me when I'm considering Michael's work in the rest of the show, as well as specifically in that mantra, it's being able to identify it, identify the food that you're eating.
I think What Michael [00:12:00] Polen is encouraging us to do is to just remember this simple mantra. And when he says eat food, just like when, in doubt, if it's in a package, that's like a huge cue. If it's not just sitting there as a fresh head of broccoli, If it's in a package question, right?
That's what he's saying. If it's full of preservatives be careful here because if your grandma is got this great thing, like if your grandma wouldn't recognize the ingredient, that's a huge trigger moment. Do you really need to be eating this? Very interesting foundational idea here. First principle, eat food.
Now the next thing on the, not too much, the reason that he's saying don't overindulge watch those portion sizes is re the reality is as you put on weight, [00:13:00] your risk of heart disease and diabetes increases simple scientific truth, but Hey, in the end of the day, We all forget the tension and the pressure we feel around body image.
I would just go to think how good you feel when you feel lean for whatever your size and shape is when you're not heavy. I've had these times in life where I've really felt. Heavy and beyond the fact that you feel like I'm I felt like I was a bit of an oath and too heavy and the whatever unsightliness comes with that in my mind, more than it's more than that, I would say when I feel lean.
I feel good. I feel mobile, flexible, agile. I feel like a [00:14:00] greater sense of flow. I don't know how to describe it, man. How do you feel when you're like feeling nice and lean and not heavy. Do you ever have this kind of experience? Yeah, my, excuse me the experience that I will portray because it's this time of year, my we've got Christmas trees up.
We're all getting ready to maybe purchase all the food and start serving it. I will fall into the camp of eating a lot and that's not because I am a. Necessarily trying to be polite. I'm not trying to eat the food that somebody said to me. I'm just a bit greedy. So the way the mind body, as well as my mindset changes, when I do eat a lot, I get very sleepy very tired, and that's okay.
But what I do notice is. When I have had that big meal suddenly I don't want to [00:15:00] interact with lots of other people. I want to maybe even go to the extreme and go and have a lie down. And I just feel very heavy and lethargic it just slows me right down and I can really relate to that when I eat too.
So to build on that, what I've done is I've removed breakfast from my diet because I feel so lean. And because my body's not diverting all this energy to my stomach, to, to process and digest. I can send that blood, that energy to different places. Like my brain. So that's why I feel like I do my best work in the morning.
That's why we record the show in the morning because we're sharp and with it. And the last part is the mostly plants thing. Let me just say this. I love a good steak, but let's get this super clear. I love meat, but particularly as I'm starting to get a little bit of gray hair and getting in my [00:16:00] my senior years, what I would propose to you.
Is, I notice that when I eat vegetarian, I'm putting less workload on my body. So therefore I have more energy and I feel good. Light, clean bouncy is a good way of describing it. And I will always each week, Holly, don't worry about that. But my point is I've actually moderated my meat intake just cause.
I feel good when I eat mostly plants as Michael Poland would recommend. And one of the things I take great pride in is saying to myself first meal a day, it should be a green plant. So I love having spinach at 11 or 12 o'clock. I love just getting fresh verges into me and feeling good.
So eat food, not too much, mostly plants. I think we could almost do the whole show on the mantra. We can throw all the [00:17:00] clips away. There's so much in it, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. I think you're totally right. We could totally. Revolve around those seven key words, because they are the real fundamental of what Michael's really calling out to us and giving us and our listeners and that his readers, a chance to go out and do.
And I think, again, it just comes down to the ownership being on. We can totally control what it is that we put into ourselves and just sticking by those seven key words. That little mantra is a way to not only control your weight, but also more importantly, as you've just said, that level of efficiency, focus productivity, and the feeling that you're just in a good place at the start of the day, but all the way through the rest of the day as well.
Yeah, totally. Now I tell you who likes being at their best mark and that's our members. What are you? Yeah, that's right. It's time listeners and members who are joining us for our [00:18:00] Patrion or roll call drum roll, please. we are welcoming new listeners and members as well, Mike this week, and I want to give a special shout out to spaceman.
Who has joined us and become patrial member. Thank you. And welcome spaceman, but also not to forget all of our members. Who've been with us for many weeks. I'm calling out Yasmeen, Rodrigo and Connor Marjon and Yaniv Halena, mark, Byron, Tom, the eight mind can Sandy Nile Brighty, Terry John Neils, and Bob welcome members.
We're so pleased to have with us every single week and every single. And if if you think about what special diet those members are on by being members they get to digest every month, the moonshots master series mark, and that is a heavy duty members [00:19:00] only podcast. And if you'd like to get your hands on to that head over to moonshot study, oh, become a member, hit that big button, know that by becoming a member.
You help us pay all of our hosting costs. And when we get on the other side of that, we can actually build a mobile application. So you can on your phone, get all the wisdom of moonshots in the Palm of your hand. But I'll tell you who's been busy typing away on their iPhones and on their computers. As some of our members, mark that deserve a specialist.
That's right. A special shout out to Mr. Terry Bean, who wants again, is advocating on the moonshot show over on LinkedIn. Thank you, Terry, for always joining us. In fact, I think we should give an extra call-out and a round of applause, even Mike for Terry, because Terry has been a very busy man, not only digesting and listening and learning out loud with us from the moonshot show, but it sounds as though he's also being giving himself some pretty physical goals.
With [00:20:00] doing press-ups every single day as well. So well done, Tara. Yeah. Now you have to give a little bit more context here because Terry did a classic thing you can do at moonshot study. He went into the back catalog and he really listened to one of our faves David Goggins, and he got a little fired up mark.
He's been hitting pushups every single day. And it nearly blew me away. Do why don't you share with our listeners? What's the highest number of pushups he's done. Thanks to the moonshots podcast. We've just developed into action. How many pushups did he do in one single day? It blows my mind, but Terry has a, somehow Mike Superman, Terry, maybe he's Superman.
Who's joined us. He's managed 390 press-ups in a single day. I'm my shoulders are hurting just contemplating this thought it is [00:21:00] phenomenal. So shout out to Terry and also shout out to Kushi who is based out there in the exotic world of India. And she came up with this really good idea, which I agree with.
But she says here, I prefer podcasts over YouTube videos, unless she's after technical really technical content. She goes on to say for me, they are reliable sources of staying updated, escaping FOMO and a go-to choice while eating or traveling long distances. And then big respect to Kushi. She actually lists us in the company of the financial times the economic times.
Then she puts learning out loud by moonshots podcast is one of her favorite shows. So Kushi, respect, and love coming to you across the Pacific ocean to you right there in India. We really do appreciate the shout out. Don't remember. Wow. Thank you, Kashi for listening and thank you for [00:22:00] listing us in such high esteemed podcasts as well.
I do agree consuming. Podcasts while you're out and about or sitting down and even eating. I think today's show particularly cushy will rest in your your catalog there as you're consuming your next meal. Absolutely. And I'll tell you what, now that we have topped up on all the love and the sharing and the conversations that our members are doing.
I think it's appropriate to consider the next part of Michael Polen and in defense of food. But mark, I think what we want to do is we want to hit our listeners with a question. And when you hear this question, We want you, not only to think about your answer, but to share it, go and share it on Twitter.
Just look up moonshots podcasts and you'll find us on Twitter, on YouTube, on Patriot, wherever you want. [00:23:00] We want to invite you to. To answer the following question, drum roll mark. What is the question that we're asking every single listener right now on this show? What is the one food and direct habit you want to change?
So it could be there are so many things maybe you want to eat mostly from. Maybe it's mostly plants. Maybe it's not too much. In fact, we've got a whole bunch of recommendations coming up that might. Get you into the idea of a positive habit that you might start something positive in your life.
So what's the one food or diet habit that you want to change. Let's think about this while we jump into Michael Polen and the next clip we have is some really powerful thinking that he has on this idea of the religion. Of nutrients, the way we were looking at [00:24:00] food, which is to say this pseudo scientific way, we all look at food that was really making our lives difficult and not helping our health.
And I call this way of looking nutritionism and I want to talk a little bit about nutritionism, which I think has is a good name for the ideology that organized. Are thinking about food now, an ideology is a kind of it's an interesting thing. It's the set of ideas and assumptions that organize your experience of something, your understanding of something usually without you being aware of it.
Okay. It's deep, it's deep seated set of premises that you don't even consider a question criticized because they just seem so obvious. So let me walk you through the four premises that I think define nutritionism and you can tell me if this doesn't characterize the typical American way of thinking about [00:25:00] food today and perhaps your own way of looking about food today.
And then I'll try to get you to expunge it from. And replace it with something that I think will be healthier and happier. Okay. The first premise of nutritionism is that the important thing about any food is the nutrients. It contains that food is essentially the sum of its nutrient parts, so that when you're thinking about eating a steak, it's really a matter of saturated, fat and protein.
And if you walk through the supermarket today, you will be. Amazed to see yeah. You can still find cereal on the label or yogurt, but look at all the other biochemistry that is bannered in the store. The vocabulary of food is about cholesterol and fiber and phytochemicals and antioxidants.
And we all have this new nutrient vocabulary knocking around in our [00:26:00] heads. This is very peculiar. Where else in your life, your everyday life, not your professional life. Do you have so many scientific terms in your head? So that's the first premise that nutrients are, what matters food is delivered.
Food is basically delivery systems for nutrients premise. If nutrients are what matters in food and nutrients are invisible to all except the nutrition scientist with his or her microscope. If you can't see a nutrient, if you can't taste a nutrient, if you can't smell a nutrient, then you need experts to tell you how to eat.
As soon as you in shrine, the nutrient is the important thing. And since. We don't have a sensory experience of nutrients. Suddenly you need experts. You need journalists, you need doctors, you need nutritionists. You need scientists to tell you how to eat. It's a little like a religion, right? If you have a religion where the important thing is invisible isn't is an abstract[00:27:00] To whom we no longer communicate directly.
We, our relationship to that deity must be mediated by a priesthood. And today we have a food priesthood that basically tells us how to eat. So that's premise number two, we need experts in order to eat very interesting. Mike, I think it's a fascinating little breakdown from Michael Pollan in his book in defense of food, because it's something that I think I've certainly been guilty of.
I certainly. Take a look at the bodies that control or at least direct how I interpret and what I purchase and what I put into my body. And I think this idea around nutrients and science being able to influence and control what it is that I'm putting into my body. It's a little bit scary with how much trust I put into those.
What Poland is beautifully doing here is they don't fall victim to oh is it organic? Is it a super food? [00:28:00] Because once you start going down these these lines, you're just in the hands of what's the fad today. It's almost like the diet movement. It's this diet this year, that diet the next year, what Michael is saving us from is.
All of this OBS, furcation and distraction. He's like everybody eat food, mostly plants, not too much. So he is saving us from all these technical scientific questions that can just be a big trap. And he's saying guys, just eat the real stuff. Yeah, try and get lots of good green stuff and veggies in there.
And do you know what take it easy on the portions? Ma that just feels good saying versus is it high cholesterol? Is it high fiber? Is it a super food? Is it organic? Like he's just getting us back to basics. Isn't it? [00:29:00] Yeah. This is what I really like about what Michael's breaking down for us, because it is pretty overwhelming in my experience.
Particularly in a world where we're very connected and we can Google or search or look up any new terms that you might find on your food, whether it's probiotic or adding calcium, whatever it might be. And you tend to fall into the camp of, okay it sounds impressive. So I should probably eat this one when the truth is I have no idea what it is exactly.
And Actually, this is the start of where he's saying, take back control, eat food, mostly plants, not too much. And he continues this story. This sort of second part to this idea when he talks about the good and the evil of helping. Third premise like a great many [00:30:00] other isms ideologies.
Nutritionism divides the world into good and evil. So at any given time in our dietary history, there is a satanic nutrient. We are trying to drive from the food supply. Today is the trans fat for a long time. It was saturated fats. And then, but if you go back further in history, it's very interesting to see that the role assigned to the evil nutrient is constantly changing.
If you go back a hundred years to this moment of food, fat ism characterized by John Harvey, Kellogg and Horace Fletcher, these were the great. Parts of the turn of the last century. They had the Sanitarium at battle Creek, Michigan, where all the elites of their times Henry Ford, William James, Henry, James, they would go there to be treated for their food issues.
And and very bizarre horse Fletcher believed you had to chew every bite a hundred times, and that, that was the key to health. And [00:31:00] they wrote these special rousing chewing songs to, to inspire people because try chewing something a hundred. It takes a really long time. You will lose weight because you're not doing anything else.
And they had these hourly yogurt enemas for people. They had it was just bizarre food practices and it was considered. State of the art science at the time, the great nutritional evil was protein. They felt protein, which now of course is a nutritional good. That it was the worst thing for you and ruin your life.
In fact, that's why we have breakfast. Cereal. Kellogg became Kellogg of Kellogg cereal and cereal was invented to push protein off of the, out of the morning meal and enshrine the carbohydrate. Okay. The identity of the evil changes. And then on the other side, if you have an evil nutrient, you need a good nutrient.
Okay. It's like the cold war. So there's a good nutrient and the identity of that is always [00:32:00] changing. What's the good nutrient today? It's the omega-3 fatty acid, right? That is the blessing nutrient. You get enough of that. You're going to be happy. You're going to not have heart disease.
You're going to live forever. And there are other good nutrients. Protein is coming back. Carbohydrates are going out. They're evil again. And fiber of course has had a nice long run as a blessing nutrient. We've had so this is how we divide the world.
And if we get enough, the key to health is getting enough of the good nutrients and avoiding enough of the bad nutrients and then everything. And it's the zero sum game fourth premise of nutritionism. Now that may not seem controversial to you. Fourth premise of nutritionism and perhaps this is the weirdest.
But we take this for granted that the whole point of eating is health. That it's what it's about. It's what's at stake when we eat. Now, this is a very American idea. It's not held by a lot of [00:33:00] people elsewhere in the world. Historically, it hasn't been held by a lot of people. People have eaten for a great many other reasons, besides an obsession with their health, they eat for pleasure.
They eat for community, for family. What happens around the table? Very important reason to eat. They eat for. Ritual purposes. There's always been a religious reasons. We eat this and it's part of our religious practice they eat for to express their identity. Every food culture has a set of taboos.
Where are the people who don't eat this? We don't eat pork or we don't. So identity is a very important reason to eat. All these other reasons for eating are equally legitimate to this single-minded obsession with health and our obsession with. Our reduction of eating this incredibly rich interesting experience that engages us with the [00:34:00] natural world that engages us with other people to narrow it down to the, this aperture of this obsession with health, it hasn't made us any healthier.
What? Wow, fascinating than breakdown. Oh where he really got me was like, And I'm like, cause protein's a big thing. I've been guilty of being like very PO protein positive. And he's back in the day, protein was the enemy. It was all about the carb. And then you realize that's the whole catch with this nutritionism and there's a religion of nutrients he's proposing.
Sit together, eat food, mostly plants, not too much. It's that simple. And God, he made a good case for it then didn't he? Yeah it's really funny when you've got an individual who's spent so many years analyzing the food industry, the science of food, [00:35:00] and you're able to take a step back and look at the patterns that have existed over the course of the last, even the last century.
And. Seeing this almost marketing effort from not only the brands, but also the scientists behind the brands creating these narratives. In order to control what it is that we're purchasing for us. And as well as our families, it's a fascinating little moment of aha or realization. Isn't it? Because suddenly you realize I don't really have much control over what I'm purchasing because I'm being influenced by all of these scientists and all of these brands in order to purchase the food that they themselves.
I'm putting out. So my level of control until now has been completely influenced for me. And in this last clip mic, when we hear about the point of view, B and the point of eating, being healthy, I've certainly fallen into that camp before. Where I'll [00:36:00] instinctively choose things that don't really sound that appealing, but it sounds healthy.
And it sounds as though that's the sort of thing I should have. Whereas what he's really calling out to us is, yeah, it's all good. Just eat good food, eat honest food. Most of these, those plants, not too much. Just keep it simple rather than over-complicating it like we've experienced with brands and mark.
So hopefully now for you, myself and all of our listeners, we've made the case for eat food, mostly plants, not too much. What we're going to do in a moment is looking to how we can actually make that a habit, how we can actually do that at the grocery store, at the restaurant, at home, in the kitchen and together with friends.
But I'll tell you what. It is just the moment before we do that is to celebrate the expanding mega empire of the moonshots media landscape. And if you're loving the moonshots podcast and you're listening to [00:37:00] this and all the far reaches of the world, it was so great to see that where we got a lot of love over the course of this year on Spotify was can.
Nigeria, Zambia, Nepal and Ghana. Mark. How cool is that? To know that we have listeners tuning in from all four corners of the planet. It's an amazing year. As we reflect on a Mike, isn't it having a listeners coming at us from all four corners of the globe. As particularly these brand new countries for us, it's really exciting.
And we're so pleased to welcome all of you listeners into the moonshots family, but Mike you're right. We now have this opportunity to offer our listeners the chance to sign up and subscribe right directly in the apple podcast app to the master series. And we're about to record a new one next week on.
That's right next week. We're deep into the art of communication, which follows [00:38:00] already five big monthly episodes, Mike, that we released just for our subscribers and our members on areas and topics such as motivation. Teamwork, the idea of circle of influences and ways of thinking and frameworks to be more efficient and productive.
And these are really deep dives, comprehensive breakdowns of these pretty enormous topics. Mike, that we touch upon in our weekly shows on the moonshots podcast, but having the ability to release to our members as well as our subscribers and apple podcast, 90. Deep dives into each of these topics is a real opportunity for us to bring something brand new into the space.
It takes learning out loud to a new level. So if you're listening right now on your apple podcast app, I want you to open it. And just go into the search and type moonshots master series, and you can take a child so you don't have to pay any money. You can just check it all out. You can [00:39:00] listen to all the episodes and if you like it, we would really appreciate your support.
So whether you want to support us in your apple podcast app, or whether you want to support us by becoming a member on Patriot. We deeply appreciate it. We're really grateful for that support. It helps us build the show and produce it and send it out to over 45,000 people a month, which is absolutely crazy.
But you know where else it gets crazy mark. That is this concept of the supermarket. And when we think Michael Poland and in defense of food, there's not a lot that kids crazier than trying to navigate a supermarket. Yeah, that's right. Whether you go in and you get confused and lost, like I do from a layout perspective, or in fact, you get lost.
When you're looking at the back of the food packets, when you're putting it into your cars, what Michael Pollan, as well as Michael Masa, going to break down and discuss for us in this next clip, Mike is how to navigate [00:40:00] home cooking as well as when you're in the supermarket purchasing food. So let's hear from Michael Pollan once again, with the failure.
Of the Western diet. American spend about half as much time cooking as they did in the 1960s. Relying more than ever on highly processed foods. The New York times brought together noted food journalists, Michael Moss and Michael Paulin. Oh my God. We gotta get some of these up to talk about home cooking the food industry and navigating a typical super.
This seems like such a tranquil atmosphere here. Quiet, peaceful music smells. Okay. But behind these shelves is the most fiercely competitive industry. There is, they're all jockeying for position on the shelf. They're fighting each other for stomach share that they. Both authors have recently published books.
Michael Moss investigates the development and marketing of food products and salt, sugar, fat, and Michael Pollan. Rediscovers his own kitchen and cooked a lot of people when they hear this term process [00:41:00] food assume it's all the same and it's all equally bad. And it's actually not true. There are processed foods.
That are one or two or maybe three ingredient process foods. And then there are these things we call ultra processed or hyper processed foods. Lunchables. We have great products to talk about this. Oscar Meyer first came up with this idea because back in the eighties, they were having trouble selling red meat.
They put their geniuses together and they were actually marketing people book away of repackaging, their essential ingredients. So they started with the red meat and then added cheese when they. Kraft. They used crackers because they couldn't use bread. And then they came up with this great kind of school bus, yellow motif for the package by Kraft's own acknowledgement.
It's not about the food as much as it is about the empowerment
at lunchtime. And look at the [00:42:00] number of ingredients. This is a hyper processed food. How do you feel about frozen vegetables as well? That's this, again goes to that distinction between processed food and ultra processed food. I think frozen vegetables are a are terrific. And I always have frozen spinach, and this is a really simple product.
It's basically spinach. Here's a case where I would buy organic, but I don't know. And that's an important point. It's more important than you eat vegetables. Even if they're conventional, I'm talking about for your health than it is that you wait until you can afford organic, or you can find organic. This is a real convenience food that I think genuinely is a boon to mankind.
So we'll get one of those. Okay. Stony field, low fat fruit on the bottom. This has 21 grams of sugar per six ounces. So there is this trend. This is organic, by the way, this is what. Illustrates the point you [00:43:00] were making earlier, and this is probiotic, gut probiotics. That's another magic word, but it has 26 grams of sugar.
This has more sugar in it than Coca-Cola. So I once asked a yogurt manufacturer why you don't have the equivalent of honesty for yogurt, like for adults who don't want to be swamped with sugar, or don't want to give their kids sugar. And he explained to me how the pressure, the arms raised to get more and more sugar in his ear resistance.
The competitor has more sugar, they're going to sell more yogurt. So you have to match them. There's a company I ran into that put a ticker tape of those showing their stock price in the lobby. So their employees could see it every morning when they came to work. So they would know what was most important, but they're playing of course, with these very deep desires we have that we don't have that much control over, and those are the levers that they're manipulating constantly.
Ooh. [00:44:00] When you realize they're looking at organic yogurt and it has more sugar than Coke, I, this really hit me. So just the, just that, how you have to be careful of this nutritionism and. He gives us some great rules that we're going to talk about in a second, but this is why we have to take control of our diet.
Isn't it. A huge amount of sugar and I'm guilty of sugar for sure. Mike, it's totally irresistible for me as well. And it's, isn't it funny hearing these two navigating the supermarket, calling out what they're seeing on the back of the products and you think, yeah. Probiotic, yogurt.
That sounds good. It's a buzzword I've heard before. It must be good for my gut. I'm going to be really healthy, but without having that moment of pause and checking. What's on the side we're all gonna [00:45:00] fall into the camp of consuming more sugar than Coca-Cola. That's an enormous that is just shocking.
So I think it's now time mark, that we go one level deeper into this mantra and Poland has some great wisdom for us that he builds. And. I want you and I to go back to back here. And look at these rules that I think are very helpful for us and for our listeners. If we want to eat food, mostly plants, not too much.
Here's Michael Poland's golden rules that are in his book in defense of food. Okay, mark. You're ready. I'm ready. Okay. First one. So he's, this is just, we're just going to break down like some simple things, some simple rules and habits you can have. Eat only foods that will eventually rot. Now, do you remember [00:46:00] in the supersize me film when Morgan SBIRT left the fries for a month and they did yes.
Yes. And this is what this one's talking about. Yeah. People have even preserved hamburgers in their cupboards or whatever for years and they barely degrade. Okay. Eat that stuff. Okay. You're to eat only foods that have been cooked by humans. So once again, you start to realize particularly on that takeout stuff, or maybe some of those quick microwave meals that we take.
We have to question that I love this one. This one's going to make life hard. Avoid foods advertised on television. That one's really hard. Isn't it? Where I think he's going with that one is all the packaged processed foods have to advertise on television. You don't see an ad for broccoli [00:47:00] or I've never seen an ad for broccoli or cauliflower.
Brussel sprouts. What about brussel sprouts? You ever seen an ad for that? No. And I love brussel sprouts. Come on. Let's keep the good habits going. What do we go? The next one, we've got treat meat as a flavoring or special occasion food. So only once every so often, or maybe just use it to add that little bit of flavor into your cooking.
That's a good one. Yeah. And just to, on that, there's a little side note in the book, which is cool where he says prefer no legs over one, right? I E go for some fish. If you can't do that, prefer two legs over four. So once again, you see what he's doing. He's beef has to be a really special occasion chicken, a bit more fish, even better.
So you see that little scale there that he gives us to help us. All right. That's it. It's you'll go. Okay. Here we go. If it [00:48:00] came from a plant. If it was made by a plant don't I have no idea what he's talking about. I think Mike what's that saying is if it came from a plant vegetables, broccoli, cauliflower, then that's okay.
But if it was made in a plant, like a factory then processed, it's a nice little play on words, that one. So I'm still thinking, does he mean eat the leaves? Not the fruit, but that doesn't make sense. Glad you helped me. You glad you helped me. All right. Next. Eat your colors that is eat as many different kinds of plants as possible.
A nice total variety. Yeah, that makes sense. You smaller plates and glasses are my gosh. That's something that I have to do. I had a hard one. That's a hard one. The next one, which I really serve the vegetables first on your plate, first in the process of dinner, having your vegetables first, because I guess Mike, you end up [00:49:00] getting fuller quicker.
So maybe you eat less meat. So we use this trick with our son when he was younger, where we'd give him like cucumbers and carrots before dinner. And that's a little trick for getting your kids to eat healthy because once they see some fries, potatoes, and some chicken on the thing, they'll go for that.
And then they'll be like, I'm tearful. Yes. Yes. Okay. Next one make water your beverage of choice, huge believer in this one. I'm totally sold on that. What's next. Yeah, I'm totally sold on that one too. I'm glad I got to read this one out because this is my going back to our question list of what diet habit you'd want to change.
This next one from Michael Pollan is stop eating before you're full Mike. I am so guilty. Oh, this one I will, I am till I'm bursting. [00:50:00] Yeah. And one of the things that came up so far on the show was actually just eat slower and it becomes you actually start to realize your full, because I believe technically it's a 15 minute delay between eating and feeling the appropriate level of satiation.
So if you can. Take your time. You will actually not feel like eating the food. Yeah. That makes sense. Eat more like the French do which is they just take a lot more time to eat than the average American, almost twice as much time spent eating and it's not the volume, but it's the time together letting you actually letting yourself feel full rather than hoping it all down.
That's a good one. Yeah. And this next one as well, the food rules try to spend as much time enjoying the meal as it took to prepare it again, Mike, I'm pretty guilty of this. We'll spend maybe an hour or so making a nice dinner on the weekends and you finish it within five or 10 minutes. And there's that value [00:51:00] exchange is out the window.
So I really liked that one spend as much time enjoying it as it took to prepare it. I know it's a good one equally. Good. Second last one. Don't eat anything. Your great grandmother wouldn't recognize as food. That's it? That's a bit of a game changer, right? There is. Yeah. A nice honest one there. And to finally close us off, break the rules once in a while, I think that's a really nice one to end on.
Isn't it like? Because at the end of the day, we all need that moment occasionally for a special occasion food just to treat ourselves. So just a reminder before we play you the last clip from Michael Poland, the big question for today's show is what is one food and diet habit you want to change?
And I hope that those food rules gave a lot of inspiration. It sounds like you and I need to take out time and stop before we're full. That could be one for us. Yeah. [00:52:00] And I'm really interested to hear from you, our listeners on what diet habits you're looking to change. So again, get in touch with us on Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, leave us a comment because we'd love to hear from you.
That's all right. Just head to moonshots.io, and you can find all the gazillion and million different ways of connecting to the show, but to round this show out, I think it is only appropriate that we hear from Michael making his final case for the title of his book, why we need to defend food, a series of events over the last several decades that I think ha.
Alerted people to the fact that maybe they should pay a little more attention to where the food comes from. We had mad cow disease. That was it. That was an amazing moment. A teachable moment in a way. It was limited to Europe for the most part. There were a couple of cases here. But suddenly we learned that, wait a minute, we're feeding cows to cows.
They don't, they eat grass and grain. [00:53:00] And and so we learned something and then the demand for organic. Sword. We had various food safety scandals involving fast food, which also increased interest in alternatives. Big one here, the steering wheel, the steering case. And we had the Al our case with apples and America in the nineties, which suddenly people were like, I panic for organic was the headline in Newsweek magazine.
So every time the industrial food system has a scandal like. Interest in alternatives and curiosity about the source of food growth, but it never lasts. It takes almost, it takes just a little bit of advertising to get us to go back to square one. It feels anyway. Yeah the stories go away, but look at the growth in the alternative markets since 1990, when organic really gets started that segment has grown 20% a year.
Even through this recession organic [00:54:00] food growth rates went down, but it continued to grow at about 10% a year. Local food is the fastest growing segment in the food system. I'm talking about local farms to institutions and also farmers. And CSS. So the continuing expansion of alternative the alternative food economy suggests that this is not completely forgotten that people have had their consciousness raised about food.
And it's convinced many people, not everybody. And still is only just a segment that it's worth paying more for food. More about. Defend it and protect it really consider what it is that you're purchasing and where you're purchasing. Because at the end of the day, as we've heard from Michael throughout this show, Mike, as well as in his book in defense of food, there are times when our decision-making has been made for us.
So rather than fall into that camp of being convinced that you need to go out and buy that probiotic, yogurt, the truth is it has [00:55:00] almost as much Coca-Cola. As much sugar as there is in Coca-Cola. I think this is a great wake up call for me. It really is that it's about the intentionality.
It's a story of taking control and putting inside of yourself. Good stuff. So you can feel good and don't underestimate the tricks that we can fall for. Oh my gosh, organic yogurt that has more sugar back in the day. Protein was evil. Now it's the savior, like just take a step back, enjoy this perspective of Michael Bolin.
And I think it's really transformational, isn't it's really transformational. And I think the important connection that I can see as we reflect on our health series, again, it's just down to ownership. We can control what we're purchasing and cooking. Absolutely true. Mark, I gotta hit you with the big question.
What is the one? [00:56:00] Singular food and died habit that you want to change. Now that we've dug into Michael Poland. It's really, again, coming back to Michael's mantra not too much. I tend to eat pretty good, quite healthy food most of the time, but I definitely Gorge until I'm getting into that lethargic, lazy CP space, food coma.
Exactly. That's the thing that diet change and habit that I've looked to amend going from. Yeah. Yeah. I'm similar. I think my thing was always like, all I should eat a ton to feel me. And it's a misconception. It's very powerful stuff. Isn't it? It's very powerful stuff. And I'm pleased that we got to dig into in defense of food today with you all listening to.
It's been great. It has really been [00:57:00] a treat. So thank you to you, mark, and thank you to you, our listeners, thank you for all your feedback, your shout-outs, your membership, your support. We truly do appreciate it. And we are very grateful as we are grateful for the work of Michael Poland here on show 158.
In defense of food and Michael came out hardened strong with his mantra, eat food, mostly plants, not too much because we live in this age of nutritionism where others are telling us how to eat, where they're hooking us with the new fad leading us astray, he's called to us is take control because. Eating is a key part of your health and feeling good, sir, you must understand that the modern Western diet has failed where we fall for organic yogurt that has more sugar than code where this and that fad are controlling us.
We need to defend food. We need to be intentional. We need to take control, good [00:58:00] food. That makes us feel good. That is the celebration that we've had here together in the moonshot. That's a wrap.