Earmark Podcast | Earn Free Accounting CPE | Integrating Wealth Management with Accounting Services

Join Blake Oliver as he interviews Kyle Walters, CPA firm partner and wealth manager at Atlas Wealth Advisors. Despite not being a CPA himself, Kyle brings a fresh perspective to the accounting world. We'll explore:

- The benefits of integrating wealth management and accounting services
- How non-traditional backgrounds can lead to innovative approaches
- Candid insights into client feedback that CPAs rarely hear
- Strategies for delivering the integrated advice clients truly want

(Originally recorded on August 1, 2024, on Earmark Webinars+)

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MakersHub - https://earmarkcpe.promo/makershub

Chapters

(01:05) - Kyle's Journey into Wealth Management and CPA Integration
(02:46) - Building a CPA Firm from Scratch
(05:05) - Client-Centric Approach and the Red Chair Concept
(06:28) - Differences Between Wealth Management and Traditional CPA Firms
(10:15) - Challenges and Benefits of Integrated Services
(15:11) - Improving Client Relationships and Communication
(30:16) - Scheduling Work to Improve Efficiency
(35:48) - Client Communication Challenges & Strategies
(38:21) - Logistical Issues and Solutions
(41:28) - The Role of CPAs and Financial Advisors
(47:40) - Integrated Financial Advice
(50:49) - Client Engagement and Meeting Schedules
(53:46) - The Future of Accounting and Financial Advice
(55:41) - Getting Started in Wealth Management
(01:00:33) - The Impact of AI on Tax Preparation
(01:01:45) - Conclusion and Upcoming Events

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Connect with Our Guest, Kyle Walters
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyledwalters

Connect with Blake Oliver, CPA

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blaketoliver
Twitter: https://twitter.com/blaketoliver/

Creators & Guests

Host

Blake Oliver, CPA

Founder and CEO of Earmark CPE

Guest

Kyle Walters

Kyle authored “The Personal CFO: The Secret to Getting More Out of Your Money and Your Life,” a book that offers a framework for better financial decision-making. Recognized for his contributions to the financial community, he regularly shares insights through various industry platforms, including Wealth Management and Accounting Today.

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Attention: This is a machine-generated transcript. As such, there may be spelling, grammar, and accuracy errors throughout. Thank you for your understanding!

Speaker1: [00:00:28] Hello everyone and welcome back to earmark. I'm your host Blake Oliver. Today I'm joined by Kyle Walters, managing director of Atlas Wealth Advisors and partner at Latch CPAs and advisors. Kyle helps successful families invest smarter, pay less in taxes, and retire with confidence. He's also a regular contributor to Accounting Today, which is how I first got to know Kyle. In our conversation today, we're going to explore the benefits of integrating wealth management with accounting services. Discuss how diverse professional backgrounds can lead to innovative approaches, and dive into candid client feedback that CPAs don't often hear. We'll also cover strategies for delivering the integrated advice that clients truly want. Kyle, thanks for joining me today.

Speaker2: [00:02:20] Yeah, great to be here.

Speaker1: [00:02:21] So Kyle, you are a partner at a CPA firm, but you are not a CPA yourself?

Speaker2: [00:02:28] No.

Speaker1: [00:02:28] How did that come about and what perspective does that give you?

Speaker2: [00:02:32] Yeah. So, you know, I grew up in the financial advisor space. 20 years ago. I've been doing financial planning and investments. And, you know, I think really since the beginning, um, I think a lot of financial advisors noticed the two ongoing relationships are typically some kind of like investment or financial advisor. And then there's the CPA. It's always engaged and involved and for quite some time clients were asking, they said, hey, we kind of want all this to be together, and we don't want to have to go to multiple places and all these things. And so just like with everything, my clients have kind of driven where our ship has gone. And in this scenario, it really became getting a more integrated experience for them and getting their taxes and accounting done, um, within arm's length of their essentially their financial advisor and their investment management. So all that could be more integrated. Um, just so they didn't have to do as much work. And so their team could, you know, be more natural. And so that was kind of what led me to eventually just saying, you know, I had close relationships with CPAs, but it's really not the same as being, you know, like connected in the office working together. And so, um, went through the, uh, exciting and relatively complicated process of kind of starting and building a CPA firm.

Speaker1: [00:03:44] So Atlas is the wealth management firm. That's what you were doing. That's right. And then did you acquire a CPA firm? Did you buy into one? Did you start it from scratch?

Speaker2: [00:03:56] Yeah. So my initial thought in this was, you know what. So I've got the advisory and wealth management and what I'll do is I'll put which I think a lot of financial advisors do and have is set up tax and accounting inside of the wealth management firm. Right. And so I started with that and then realized very quickly that while it was fine, it wasn't really what I wanted, which was, you know, a full service, well run CPA firm. And you know, as probably everybody on either side knows, it's completely different processes for wealth management than it is closing books or doing taxes or whatever it might be. And so I needed to have a standalone entity. And so I went through the process of saying, okay, if I'm going to set up this and build this independent CPA firm, I need partners because I'm not a CPA. I can't spell CPA, nor in Texas can I be a majority owner anyways. And so I went through and had a lot of lunches, had a lot of calls, meeting people in the area, meeting CPA firm owners that I knew and ended up meeting two at the same time, two firm owners at the same time that we all meshed and got along and and thought, you know, if we can sit together at a table with our different perspectives, then maybe we can make some better decisions and create a firm.

Speaker1: [00:05:05] So you did this because your clients were asking for it, or did you do it because you saw this gap between what you were offering and what they needed?

Speaker2: [00:05:14] You know, I saw the gap. But I think when you're kind of looking at it from a business standpoint, it's what what do I see as relevant. And then also what are the clients think is relevant. So what's kind of, you know, when we're having a meeting lots of times it's what's on my agenda, what's on your agenda. And in this situation it's one of the few things, which is why I was willing to put so much work into it, because it is a lot of work. Um, is what I thought was really important, which was tax drives. So much for successful families and businesses. Right. Um, but they're not connected. And so I thought it was really useful and helpful and valuable for the clients. And clients were telling me that as well, which usually doesn't happen because sometimes I'll think something's important that they don't, or they'll think something's important and I don't see it. But in this scenario, I think we were both kind of prioritizing, making their lives easier and bringing together those relationships. And so it was worth it was worth the effort.

Speaker1: [00:06:03] So how does your experience in financial advice wealth management impact how you run a CPA firm?

Speaker2: [00:06:12] Well, I mean, the good news is for me is, you know, I'm plenty busy on my advisory side. And so from a from a seat in the CPA world, you know, what's kind of my role there. A lot of that is I'm sort of on, on the board of directors type of thing, which is I don't have the same lens as most CPAs. We went we studied different things in school. We view things very differently. And so I kind of bring a fresh lens when we're looking at what kind of tools do we need to implement? How can we provide better services to our clients, how do we run pricing operations and all that? And so, um, you know, I think being a financial advisor is useful because even though I think clients see us both as, hey, we're both financial professionals, we're both trusted advisors, I think the lens that we look at a problem might be completely different. And so that was one of the biggest, I think, attractions as a group between me and our other partners is, you know, we don't have the same perspectives. We have diverse points of view. And so I've, I've come into meetings thinking that I had a point of view that was right, if that makes any sense. And then after hearing, you know, different ways to think about it, I walked out with a completely different perspective. And so I think in general, just having diverse points of view from that standpoint is really helpful.

Speaker1: [00:07:27] Well, so let's talk about some of the details of this. Like what is different about how your CPA firm runs versus a traditional one. What has been uh, how has your experience changed the way you deliver services in that firm?

Speaker2: [00:07:45] Well, you know, I think one of the things that I've realized is, since I'm not necessarily the one delivering those tax and accounting services, right. You're the there's always the gap, right. The knowing doing gap I guess whatever you want to call it of saying, okay, you know, these are this is my vision of the way that this should be delivered. And then there's the reality of the timing and the deadlines and all these other things that come into it. Um, but I do think one of the, um, one of the things that, you know, I focused on in the firm is that I didn't feel like there was enough of an I don't feel like there was enough of this just in the general community. Um, is kind of a focus on the client, right? What does the client want? What are they saying they value. Right. And so I think one of the first articles I ever wrote for accounting today was The Power of the Red chair. Um, and I remember we, we set up our new office. They were, you know, both firms right together. And we had this one conference room in the middle and we had seven great chairs. And then I ordered one red chair and we called that the client chair, which was anytime we're in a meeting, um, we have to act like our best client is sitting in the chair, like, and they are going to weigh in, or at least they're going to hear the things that you had to say. Because one of the things I noticed was, you know, it seemed like a lot of the language was almost, um, combative from a client perspective.

Speaker2: [00:08:57] It was almost like, oh, they're getting in the way of us doing the work. Um, or, you know, look at all these things they're doing wrong. And, uh, you know, that was that was interesting for me because I had never really gotten that perspective on the financial advisory world. I think, um, you know, there's so much time spent on, like, you know, how can you deliver this service model and how can you create, you know, delightful experiences and all these things for the client with thinking through, how do you make the clients happy? And on the tax and accounting world, I think there's it's just a different perspective, right? There's numbers that need to be right. There's things that need to be delivered. And so it's much more you know, it's it's much more kind of one foot in front of the other type of deal. And I think sometimes the client gets missed in that, like what is the client really want. And so I think that's been an interesting perspective, because clients will tell me they'll go through the whole process or it'll be, you know, May and they'll have gone through it or November and they'll get their stuff. And, you know, I'll say, how'd it go? And it is different now that they know I'm a partner of the firm, that they're usually sugarcoating it a little bit. But if we're missing something or, you know, the the turnaround was a little slower or whatever, they'll tell me. So it's really interesting that I can bring back real time feedback to our team.

Speaker1: [00:10:06] You're thinking about it from the client's perspective. You're putting yourself in their shoes. I love that idea of the red chair always imagining that the client is present even when they aren't right. Because I can tell you from my own experience in public accounting, there is an awful lot of client bashing that goes on. It can be frustrating to try to get all this work done and you don't have what you need, and clients are what's holding you back or what you perceive is holding you back, right? And even though they're not, they're talking about clients in a negative way, colors, the whole firm. It kind of changes the culture in a negative way. Um, or or maybe not as positive as it could be. If you are putting yourself into those clients shoes and you're and you're really just approaching everything from a client first perspective, yeah, yeah, I that seems to be something that is like fundamentally different about wealth management versus accounting. And tax is the just the the culture, the perspective. Why do you think that is, Kyle? Is that is that because financial planners are trained differently? Is it because there's this different relationship with the client? Like what? Why is it so different?

Speaker2: [00:11:27] You know, I think maybe a part of it is I mean, really, I don't know. Um, but I think maybe a part of it is the thing about, you know, tax accounting. And I think this I think more advisory is coming into this. And so I think that's starting to change. Right. But I think when you look at tax or you look at accounting, the point is to have the correct numbers. You know what I mean? Like, so you know, which I view as the what. And you know, really I'm thinking about the what the so what and the now what right. You know what I mean? Because I think that as we move along down the line and technology becomes better and all these tools become more useful, having accurate numbers is just table stakes. Like, I think we should all agree that like that is a requirement, not something that makes your firm unique, right? It's having accurate numbers and being on time with delivery. Okay. Well so what um, and so I think maybe culturally it's so numbers focused and deadlines focused that people can and I think CPAs a lot of times are natural pleasers in the sense of they kind of let clients dictate, you know, hey, just turning your stuff and we'll try to get it, you know, so it's, it's can become, uh, vicious doom loop or a cycle in the wrong direction to where that then makes them resent the client for not knowing what to do and not knowing how to do it in the process and all these things.

Speaker2: [00:12:43] Um, and versus I think on the advisory side, I mean, most financial advisory work, there's not necessarily a deadline, and it's usually some version of advice about an uncertain future. Right. And so versus one is, you know, a lot of these numbers you can use. Right. And things that you have to be turned in so you can pay your taxes or whatever the other side of it is looking forward. And if you're looking forward with a client, you kind of have to know more than just the numbers. You have to understand their perspective and their goals, and what are they trying to do, and what are all these rational or irrational ways they think about the world to help them make better decisions? And so fundamentally, it's kind of a different day to day. Um, they're both really important. And so, um, but I think as advisory comes into, you know, the accounting and tax world, more and more hope, you know, I think everybody's going to really understand like you need to we need to know more about the clients. And the numbers are again, they're just table stakes. Um, but that was one of the things that I have to still and with because I have CPA friends all over the, you know, place and it's very much like, um, like you, you gave the example, like, they're not getting me my stuff. They're not getting the stuff, us, the stuff that we need.

Speaker2: [00:13:52] Right? Um, and the clients are lazy or they're disorganized, you know, and all this stuff. And it's interesting because I'm on the other end of the communication as a client, right? Because I have a business more than one business, right? I have the, you know, all the and I, I get the communication. And I said, you know, act as I'm one of these people And, you know, the good news is the tax and accounting, all this stuff is not incredibly simple to understand. Or else these clients wouldn't pay us to do the work. And so our role as I'm just using on the accounting and tax side, is to make it understandable for them and help be the catalyst to get this stuff done. If they knew everything to do and they knew how to do it and they were super organized, what do they need us for? Right. And so our role, you know, it's like Google says, the user is always right. And so, you know, when you're typing something in Google, you don't have to know exactly what you're looking for. You know what I mean? Like the whole point is for it to be able to suggest and try to understand what you're trying to do without you being able to necessarily say it word for word, right. And I think our role as professional service providers, whether it's financial advisory, CPA, whatever this is, is what is the roadblock this client is facing.

Speaker2: [00:15:03] Right. Because the more successful they are, the busier they are, the less likely they're going to care about your email. So what how do we remove roadblocks? How do we remove friction? How do we make their lives easier? Because ultimately the clients have plenty of complexity. We should be saying, how do we make their lives easier? And if we can do things to kind of clear the road for them, rather than just saying, you should just understand what needs to happen because they're not. I think as professional service firms, we think they know all the things that are happening and they don't. And so, you know, they just get an email and they're like, oh, this is one of many I don't know. Um, and we just think, well, we sent them the email. Our job is done. Right. But that's not the the job wasn't send the email right. The job was get the get these things by X time. And so, you know, I kind of see this this conflict that seems to take place. And it's interesting. Um, and I get to hear from both sides, I get to hear our accounting and tax side talk about, you know, something's not happening the right way. And then I get to hear the other side of it of like, I don't I don't know what anybody's talking about. Right. From a these really busy, successful clients. Um, and so it's interesting to try to connect the dots.

Speaker1: [00:16:09] You said something very insightful there that I wanted to highlight, which is, uh, something about how wealth management, financial planning is really about looking at the future with the client and understanding their goals, their objectives. And to do that, you have to get to know the client. You have to know them deeply to know somebody's goals for their life. Right. We don't find that out about a lot of people. And you have to know that about all your clients in order to successfully work with them. And maybe that's what creates the empathy that allows us then to look at it from their perspective. Whereas if you're just churning out tax returns, then it's hard to have that empathy, especially when you have a lot of clients and the only interaction you're having with them is, here's what I need from you. It's a transactional type of relationship. But but you know, being a financial planner is well, maybe not all financial planners are like that, but it seems like the best ones I talked to really get to know their clients really well.

Speaker2: [00:17:11] Yeah. I mean, I think maybe it might be a numbers game, right? I mean, there's if you're doing 600 returns, right, it would be incredibly difficult to build 600 meaningful relationships. Right. Um, and it probably not cost effective, etc.. Um, but I definitely think when you're talking about, you know, even for the tax and accounting world where you have these larger clients, where they have a business, it's a, you know, whether, you know, whatever it might be. Um, you know, how do you really have deeper conversations with those clients where they talk to you about other things because, you know, when you're talking about selling a business, lots of times we talk about why, you know, it's purely the numbers standpoint, but they're selling it for a reason. And, you know, there's families involved and, you know, there's a lot of dynamics that you're really not getting to in the numbers that when you're talking about delivering value for a client, because I hear a lot on, you know, I read a lot of the articles that are about, you know, value pricing, all this pricing component, you know, how should I raise my fees or whatever, but I don't see a lot of like, how do we raise the value that we're delivering, right.

Speaker2: [00:18:15] Like, I haven't seen anything that says how to deliver more value for your best clients, right? It's more like, how should I build them? It should it be hourly? Should it be value driven? Which means, you know, how much, how big are they and how much can I get away with charging type of thing versus, you know, what types of clients value, what delivery, and then how do we do it as effectively as possible so we can free ourselves up to have better conversations that they actually care about. And so, um, you know, I think it's an interesting dynamic. I think everything's moving in the right direction. Um, but I think understanding some of these more, you know, these deeper components from a client life is important. Realizing that you can only do that with so many people. Um, you can't do that if you have if you're having, you know, a thousand relationships. And so it's really just trying to figure out, you know, the kind of firm you want to build and the types of relationships that you want to have.

Speaker1: [00:19:08] So one of the benefits of integrating wealth management and accounting and tax is that your tax practice can have fewer clients. I imagine that allows you to have the better relationships. Um, what other benefits have you seen from creating this structure for your firm, either for your clients or for your firm or for both? Really? Like what? Why would somebody want to do this?

Speaker2: [00:19:37] Well, clients have said clients like it in the sense that, um, you know, I always like to say, since we're since we're handling everything, it makes the entire relationship stickier in the sense that I tell clients when we first have a new client come on board, I say, look, here's the good news that I can predict ahead of time if something's going to go wrong somewhere. I don't know if it's I missed an important email or I don't know if it's our tax team missed a document or something, something's going to go wrong. And what we really want to understand is I want you to communicate it. What goes wrong. And we will fix it. We will tell you what has changed so that it will not happen again. I will say I'm sorry and we'll take responsibility and we'll make it right. Is that fair? And they say, sure. And that gives them permission to tell you when something goes wrong, because else they won't. And if it goes wrong enough, they just leave. And so when you're doing enough of their work and when you're doing so much, the two ongoing relationships are in one place. There's so much kind of value just from an ease of doing business standpoint that you're forced to work it out. You know, it's like a marriage versus just dating. You're like, we're stuck together, right? Let's burn the boats and build this relationship and get it right. And so I think that's a real advantage for clients from an advantage from, you know, maybe both sides of the wealth management and the CPA firm.

Speaker2: [00:20:53] I mean, I think from an advantage from a, uh, for the wealth management firm, I think there's a lot of great clients that are monetizing businesses that are looking for a place to go. I think there's, you know, just generally a good relationship that can be connected to where there's a lot of clients that want financial advisors and a lot of wealth management clients that want CPAs. What I will say, though, and I think most financial advisors misunderstand, is, you know, they as when they're managing money or doing investments, they'll say, well, I'm sending, you know, these CPAs, my great clients, and they're not referring back. They're kind of looking at Transactionally and I'll say, great, tell me about those great clients. And it'll be somebody that's has, you know, sold their business five years ago and has a whole bunch of money in an account or a retired family that's, you know, has a bunch of investments which for them, whose job it is to manage monetized assets is great. But for the CPA, that's at best, um, a, you know, a time sensitive tax return that they probably don't even want. And so on one side of the fence, if you will, they're an a client is somebody else's decline, you know, C or D and then it's flipped. Right.

Speaker2: [00:22:01] Versus CPA might say I sent John my best client. Well tell me about John. Well, he has six entities and he's always reinvesting and starting other businesses and doing all these other things. And so there's not necessarily a match in terms of delivering value to kind of the top client essentially. And so what I think these integrated firms allows us to do is kind of bridge the barbell, if you will, right. And say, you know, there's going to be clients that we want to provide value for across the board and sometimes that other person. So I have some of those business owner clients that can just ping me, and I can just be a resource for them, help walk them through some things. Right. And the CPA trusts because I'm down the hall from them. Right. They know what that experience is going to be like. We're just here to be a resource. And so I think it helps just from delivering value across the client base. And I think for CPAs, it's valuable. Um, because, you know, with financial advisors, I think it's oil and water a little bit on this relationship because they don't understand each other's businesses and how it works. And we're not all that different. Um, I think there's there's a real benefit into because most CPAs just say, I just want to stay in my own lane here. Like, I can't really make any referrals because I don't want to make the wrong decision.

Speaker2: [00:23:11] And then if the market goes down, you know, they can't really make the, you know, sorry, my phone's going off here. Um, they can't really make that move. Right. And so I think it helps in the sense of both Professionals are able to say, this is who you should talk to, rather than just saying, let me give you these five referrals. Go meet them all. And you know, good luck. Right. I think in this day and age, people are looking for advice, not more options. And so this allows you to kind of get a little closer. But I think it's a real decision to make. I think most CPAs and financial advisors, I mean, I've heard CPAs say, well, yeah, I don't want to do that because I get referrals from financial advisors, and if I connect, I lose my referral source. Right. Valid point. Um, but at the same time, I when you dig a little bit and you say, great, how many of the target clients do you get are coming from these financial. It's not many. And so, um, and they should be referring you because you do great work, not because you're sending business back the other way. And so you got to have the right partners thinking about the business the right way, where the priority is providing great service to clients, having a deeper bench and being able to deliver, you know, integrated advice as it becomes more important. Mhm.

Speaker1: [00:24:24] So you've heard a lot of complaints from clients who have CPAs who are not as client focused as your firm is. I'm wondering if you could share some of those common complaints. What can CPAs do better to serve their clients from a client perspective? Give us. Give us the dirt. Right? You know yeah. We won't take offense. We want to hear it. Be honest.

Speaker2: [00:24:51] I'm sure you know, I always tell. I'm like, I'm sure they're getting it on the other side about me too. So it's, you know, it's kind of one of those. I mean, I, you know, my wife and I have been married for 20 years, so I'm sure it's kind of like the same thing. The kids are going back and forth here. Um, but I would say what I hear more than anything is just the from a contact, the, um, Kurt, when the contact is slow and it's usually relatively curt. And so it's just, uh, in the sense of like, um, you know, some very quick, brief, kind of annoyed one line responses, you know what I mean to what is going on here? Sorry, I don't know how to turn this thing off real quick. My trying to.

Speaker1: [00:25:32] You're getting pinged on your computer there. Yeah, I'm.

Speaker2: [00:25:33] Getting pinged on my. I have this, um, I don't know how to turn this off anyways. I mean, it's a client.

Speaker1: [00:25:39] We could invite them on, you know.

Speaker2: [00:25:41] That would be actually fantastic. Um, I have one of these voice over IP phones, and I'm trying to turn it off, but it won't let me turn it off. Um, so, anyways, uh. That's great.

Speaker1: [00:25:51] Yesterday it was me with my doorbell, which is hooked up to a smart speaker, and even though I had it muted, it just rang through. So yeah, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker2: [00:26:00] What we're doing here. So, um, if that happens again, I apologize. I'm trying to minimize as much as I can. Um, so.

Speaker1: [00:26:06] To give us the, the, the major. Yeah.

Speaker2: [00:26:08] The biggest dirt that I hear. And this is just like what you hear with every study that's ever been done. So this is nothing new. It's just like direct communication. Everybody says, I don't feel like I ever hear from him. And if I do, it's they're always in a rush. And, you know, it's just like, no, it's not like, you know, the I think the extra maybe three minute bedside manner follow up question like how so and so going would probably take care of 90% of it. Right. Um, but it's understandably so. It's very much like I'm trying to get the numbers in and I'm trying to, you know, there are so many things to do, um, that I think it becomes very black and white, which, you know, when they're used to our relationship in particular, which is, you know, I mean, our we track like the, the whole family tree, you know what I mean? So we know when like, their parents, brothers, sisters and kids and grandkids, like we have everybody's name everybody's birthday. Because what I found is if you know somebody's grandkids birthday and you're chatting on that day and you bring it up like the trust is there forever, and so it's a different, different relationship. And so but I mean, I think the biggest feedback that I get is always in a hurry, really slow response. Right. Um, or sometimes they don't respond at all. I've reached out a few times. I'm not hearing back. Um, and.

Speaker1: [00:27:29] That all comes from being too busy.

Speaker2: [00:27:31] It just comes from being too busy and and but but what it leads to is just like what every study has said is the reason people leave their CPA firm is because they feel unappreciated. Right? It you know, and so that's nothing new. You know, they're not they're not what I have never heard a complaint about from any CPA. And I've we've caught errors from other CPAs, you know, and say like hey this is these are long term gains. They're categorized as short term. Uh, this is a huge difference because it's large numbers. You know, we've caught mistakes. Clients didn't even care. They said, okay, it happens. We'll get it corrected. Those are, um, really big mistakes. But in the eyes of a client, in terms of the relationship, it's an honest mistake that can just get fixed. But that's if they feel appreciated by their most trusted advisor or their CPA. Right. And so I think what happens is when you get this very deadline driven, because the challenge with all these deadlines, which I think some of these are arbitrary and can be like moved out, we've talked I've talked a lot about kind of scheduled tax season throughout the course of a year. Um, you know, the challenge when you don't spread it out and you do have these deadlines is you do have to do a whole lot of work in a short period of time. And that's exactly when those people want to talk to you, because everybody's in a rush at the same time, and everybody needs clarification at the same time, which is exactly when you don't have time to talk to them. And so it's kind of like a recipe for disaster unless you change the recipe. Mhm. Right. And talk about.

Speaker1: [00:28:59] That.

Speaker2: [00:28:59] Yeah. It's built, it's built to and you know and every year people are like oh I can't believe this happened. You know, like, I can't believe the same thing happened. Like we sent out the email that said, get us your stuff by X date or else. And then they didn't do it. Yeah, amazing. They either didn't do it or everybody sent it in. I can't believe it. Now we have all this work to do, you know. And so it's like the same problem. You know what? Whoever said, uh, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result right over again. Yeah, it's the same thing. Um, and like, let's just fix it, right? It's not, you know, it's not impossible to fix. So I love that.

Speaker1: [00:29:36] Idea of scheduling the work. Right. So is that what you do at your CPA firm? How do you spread out the busy seasons so that you can be responsive?

Speaker2: [00:29:44] Yeah. So I saw this from, um, uh, initially it was Jason stats. Um, you know, he talked about this terminology of, um, scheduled work or scheduled tasks, something some term. Um, and I just started thinking about it. And one of the advantages of being too dumb to know that it won't work like me because I have no experience in the business. Right? Is I just go, why can't we do it that way? Like what could go wrong, right type of a thing? And sometimes I find out what could go wrong and okay, that makes sense. Let's move another direction. Right. But, you know, uh, if you kind of take a beginner's mind to all this stuff, you realize that the reason you've been doing it a certain way is because that's how you've always done it. Well, that's a very silly reason, unless you can kind of keep asking why, and it still makes sense. And, you know, the reality of it is when you talk about the current that your options are with a scheduled tax season versus nonscheduled. So it's really like schedule tax season. Okay, great. Well what's the what's a nonscheduled tax season okay. Nonscheduled reactive. Exactly what everybody has been complaining about for forever, right?

Speaker1: [00:30:46] Nonscheduled is the returns just pile up. That's right. You're just trying to work through them as fast as you can before the deadline.

Speaker2: [00:30:53] That's right. Nobody's happy. Right? You know, the best you can do is hopefully get it done before this deadline. Right. And then everybody else is unhappy. Your team is unhappy. Right. So no one likes it at all. Okay. Right. And so the clients don't like it. The team doesn't like it. Leadership doesn't like it. Right. Um, so people leave the business, the scheduling.

Speaker1: [00:31:14] Are we talking about, like, I'm going to do this return on this day or I'm going to do it like in this block of time? Or are people actually blocking out their calendar? What does it actually look like? Because I've heard of this, but I've never actually. Yeah.

Speaker2: [00:31:24] So I did a few articles on this because the JSON stats piece I was like, this is really let's unpack this. And I started talking to some CPAs that are doing a version of this. I started talking to clients about it. So essentially, you know, you've got April 15th is this first deadline that the IRS says your return has to be in by then, but it actually just says or you extend. Right, right. And so the reality of it is your real deadline is in the fourth quarter of when you have to have the tax return filed.

Speaker1: [00:31:52] Right. September. October. Right.

Speaker2: [00:31:53] Yeah. So you have plenty of time. Right. And so rather than saying, okay, we're going to just, you know, we're going to pull the trigger and shoot the gun and everybody turns in their stuff. And then we're going to file as much as we can through April 15th. And then we're just going to like go underground and, you know, try to recover and, you know, patch up our wounds for the next few months and then rush again right before the season cutoff. How about you just smooth that out over the course of the year? Right. So you have so so some. So I talked to a CPA, um, did an article on this maybe a month or two ago. And what she does, she does it by month, so she'll schedule right. Things getting done in March, April, May, June. So every month is a segment.

Speaker1: [00:32:34] Like a cohort a group of clients.

Speaker2: [00:32:36] Clients get assigned by month. In that case my preference is quarter right? Um, because it gives us more flexibility, right. Where you've really got kind of that first quarter, which is up until April 15th. Right. And then you've got, let's call it, you know, there mid your summer and then you've got kind of that last deadline and then what that allows you have a Q4, which is, you know, after your October cutoff to do planning all the way through January. And so you have these three quarters of work, one quarter of planning, but it allows, you know, all that work to be spread out. And what was interesting was in talking to my talking to my team, I talked about this. And they were like, that can't be that can't be done. You know, I said, great, why tell me? And then the same few answers, the same few issues come up, which guess what you got to solve. There's going to be a problem to solve one way or the other. The question is which problem? And in the case of the CPA they interviewed, she was losing people just like everybody. And she's like, okay, I know this is a problem. I'd rather solve the problem of what are the issues I'm going to run into spreading out the work. Which one of the issues when you're spreading out the work, right, is, well, what about all my clients? Want it to be filed on time, right? That's what that was. The initial thing is mean.

Speaker1: [00:33:46] The usual objection is my clients don't want to be extended.

Speaker2: [00:33:49] Clients don't want to be extended. I said, that's great. How many clients have told you they don't want to be extended? Because I talk to them all the time. Like I don't mind being extended. I every client I talk to, they don't care what they care about is I don't want to owe a bunch in taxes and penalties and interest and all these arbitrary costs. I don't care when you file my return. Most don't even know their return is filed. I have clients call me all the time. They're like, is my return filed? They don't even know what that means, right? In the context of getting a refund or owing some money. Right? They don't know. They don't care. They just want to know they're not going to be in trouble with the IRS. They're not going to get hit with special interest rates are with massive fees and penalties. Other than that, they care zero. And so one of the issues becomes, oh, my client's. So then, you know, everybody thinks their clients are special. Oh well my clients won't put up with that. They they want to be filed on time. I don't run into that. Like, if you actually talk to them and you explain to them the value of a schedule tax season and you say, look, um, this is what was before, which was just a race to the finish. And then hopefully you get it in and then, you know, nobody's happy. Right. Versus we're scheduling you know, we've in the past we filed your return in X month. And so you know this is what we're going to be filing. Clients know what's going to be happening when it's going to be happening.

Speaker1: [00:35:08] Yeah I'd prefer that too. Yeah. I feel like, um, the reason we hear this objection is that if you're not talking to your clients, you're only going to hear from the ones who are unhappy. That's right. So you hear about 100% of the people who are unhappy, and 0% of the vast majority who are fine being extended. You haven't asked them. Yeah.

Speaker2: [00:35:27] It's like it's like with any bell curve. Right. So this this would be a challenge I would say to, to any firm okay, send out an email and we have a template I can I can, you know, send it to you like here's the, you know, here's the benefits, all this stuff. Here's what's here's what to expect. People want to know what are the benefits, why are we doing it? What happens next? And am I going to owe any more money? Is this going to cost me anything different? Right. If you cover those bases, most people don't even respond. They just go, great, right? So it's like a bell curve, like 5%, no matter what, no matter what change you make, they're not going to like it. They're the ones that will complain about you lowering your fees. Right? They just find something to be upset about. 5% of your clients, they they're ecstatic. They're your advocates, right? They're your gladiators. They refer everybody. They're like, this is the best idea. They love you. Okay, great. The 90 in the middle. You just need to have an effective delivery. They don't care. People don't love taxes. This is like a fascinating thing that I have to explain to a lot of my CPA brethren. People hate it. They don't want to talk about it.

Speaker2: [00:36:26] They don't know what any of this stuff is. They just want numbers they can use to make better decisions and keep the IRS off their back. That's it. So when you file the return, great. If that means for us to have a more a better conversation, you need to file my return in June. And it gets to mean that I can actually talk to you when I want to talk to you. Uh, why would I not want that? And so what happens is you make this announcement and there will be, you know, you have a large, you know, a pretty good sized firm. You might have a few that are upset. I really want my return done by X date. Great. Are you going to have your. And then so you get to choose when people get filed. If they're a good client right. They are paying you and they're paying you what you're worth. Maybe they deserve to go in the first slot. There's a whole slot designed for that people, for those people. And what you might find is the people that actually complain are not your target clients anyways. They're the ones that will complain about everything, and you've been looking for a reason to graduate them to a firm that's going to be more suited for them.

Speaker2: [00:37:26] Right. And so, you know, but that's that's just an example of something that's structurally why don't we just ask why it's being done this way. And then we say, oh, it can't be done. Great. Let's talk about it. Well, the clients think we should ask them and then what are the real problems that are coming up? So you have real logistical issues of, okay, what if somebody owes right. If you owe money because you can extend the return, but if you owe money, you should have to pay it by April 15th. You still got to be trued up with the IRS, right? Great. That is something that's a logistical problem that we figure out. Right. That's. But it's doable. Right? Now what else? And then you just keep unpacking until you. Okay. So on one section we have this, you know, this kind of antiquated system that has been blowing up the industry for like 20 years or more forever, basically. And then over on the other side, we have this what is clearly if we can make it work, a better solution, but we just have to deliver the message more clearly to clients and figure out how much they owe in April. Well, it's kind of.

Speaker1: [00:38:23] You brought up the second objection, which is that we can't, um, we can't extend clients without making sure they're paid up because the payment can't be extended. But if you're offering wealth management or financial advice throughout the year and you're being proactive, you can make sure that they are true up with the IRS that they have paid their estimated payments.

Speaker2: [00:38:45] This is another great reason to say because when you spread this out now, you have more time throughout the year. Okay, to have better conversations with clients, you can have a block in your Q2 where you're doing a tax, a major tax planning meeting with your best clients. Your Q4 can be tax projection. Like all. There's so many areas to put in this solution of, well, how are we going to figure out which? Oh, and then some people say, well, I won't extend because if I have to go through the process of figuring out what they oh, might as well just file the return. Right. There's so many and you can't fix it for every single person. Right. But it's if we were going to design a system that's going to solve 90% of the problem, let's solve that. And then if we had the outliers, let's deal with the outliers when they come. Because there's outliers no matter what.

Speaker1: [00:39:30] Well, and even if you had to lose, just accept I'm going to lose 10% of my clients. Who are the outliers? Generally, most CPA firms could afford to do that. Yeah. They probably.

Speaker2: [00:39:40] Why would they? Why yeah. Why would you why are you going to lose them. Because they're so rigid. They don't want to go in your system. Which means because you either have you have you either have a process where that the firm follows or you have whatever however many clients you have that many processes. So if you have 1000 clients and not one defined process, you have 1000 processes. So you can they can never be improved, right? They're always going to be broken. And so, you know, I think there's a little bit of hesitation to just have the confidence to tell the client this is how we're going to do it. Here's why it's beneficial for you. And here's what happens next Because taxes can be just reactive a little bit. Like I need the documents and it, you know, versus just saying this is when we're going to do it. And I think there's an underestimation of the client's willingness to go along because most of the time they like their CPA, they like their firm, they want to be helpful. You know what I mean?

Speaker1: [00:40:37] Like, and they want more guidance. They actually want more guidance. They want to be told what to do.

Speaker2: [00:40:41] They, they that's where I think it really is. They. Absolutely. And they want to be told what to do from their CPA. I'm a financial advisor. So you know, it really it hurts me to say this, but the CPA in most in most situations is the most trusted advisor. They're going to talk to their CPA, even if it's exactly in my wheelhouse. It's exactly what I do, right? We're going to have a conversation and they're going to say, that's great, let me go. I need to run this by Paul or Tina or whoever their the CPA is. Even though I know that they don't. That's. They don't. That's not their thing at all. It's still this great relationship with a high degree of trust, right? That is just ripe to have this advisory relationship with clients. But in the current structure where it's just this hair on fire, you know, sort of, uh, unplanned environment, it's incredibly difficult to do that. So but we know a solution. It's just a matter of then you're saying, well, we have these other problems. Well, there is no solution where there's absolutely no issue to solve. So let's just upgrade our problems. Clients win, we win. Right. Um, and so I think there's when you're kind of bringing a lens of, uh, I don't know, stupidity, I'll call it where, I just don't know why it won't work. It can be a challenge, I think, for the other partners to to explain why it won't work. Because I don't know anything about the process. And so you have to explain it to me, um, without assumptions, because they say, well, the clients are going to say this and I'm like, hmm, I don't, I don't know. That's the case.

Speaker1: [00:42:08] Oftentimes. And this is true of my experience as well. If you go into a business or start a business and you've never been in that line of work, you can make a lot of mistakes, but you can also do things in a different way. You can you can think outside the box. You can color outside the lines however you want to say it. Um, I had that experience when I started my own firm. I started an accounting firm, but I'd never worked in one before. I went backwards, you know, from the usual career path, and it allowed me to start using fixed fees before that was, like, really popular, right? And it gave us a huge advantage because it just never occurred to me that I would bill hourly for this work. It made no sense to me. It wasn't what the clients wanted. So I said, I'm not going to do that. Yeah.

Speaker2: [00:42:58] I mean, it's somebody that I see a lot of the billing conversation, right? I mean, you know, I mean, I in the advisory world, it's just different. It's a different, um, you know, there are some advisors, ironically, we're kind of we're kind of going in reverse. I feel like the advisory world is like, is, uh, regressing where you see these younger advisors are showing up as their value proposition. Is that their hourly really, instead of yes, instead of a percentage because they view, oh, that's a that's a model that doesn't have any conflicts and all this stuff, every model where you are billing has a conflict. So just be clear. Right. Um, and so it's kind of interesting to see that. But, you know, listening, talking to CPAs and firms, the hourly model for me was like, it's fascinating in the sense that every client I talked to is like, I hate it because, you know, they can't call the person they want to call without catching a bill. Yeah. And, you know, what do they say? I think it was, uh, Blair Innis who wrote win Without Pitching. Um, like, that's one of my favorite books.

Speaker2: [00:43:54] And he wrote something to the effect of, you don't get fired for the $40,000 invoice. You get fired for the $40 invoice, which is these nuisance nitpicky, um, you know, just, uh, annoyance line items versus if you're dealing with successful people, charge them. Right. What you need to charge them to be able to be their trusted advisor and then create a compelling proposition to where they understand what you're going to be doing for them, and then let them decide versus, you know, anytime you call me, I'm going to it's a bill for $126 because it was, you know, 13 minutes or whatever it is. It doesn't help to create a relationship, which means you're never going to hear from them no matter what, because it's you're not you're incentives are not aligned. And so it's really interesting and just the whole and it's, you know, the accounts receivable thing, I'm like, you have people that owe you money. You know what I mean? Like, but you did the work already. That was for me was like kind of my eye because we never I never I didn't grow up in that environment.

Speaker1: [00:44:57] Um, and what's crazy is that a lot of times these firms are paying the bills for the clients. Right, right. And I said, if I'm going to pay the bills for the clients, I'm you. You're going to make sure I'm going to pay you.

Speaker2: [00:45:08] We're moving to the top of the list.

Speaker1: [00:45:10] Yeah, yeah. And advance.

Speaker2: [00:45:11] Yeah. And I think there's just, um, you know, so they're just so I think a lot of those, whether it's billing or whether it's your service model or whether it's, you know, a portal or whatever, tax return delivery. Um, you know, one of the interesting things about our group is and just because I don't underst, I don't know why it wouldn't be another way, you know what I mean is, we can just keep saying why until we get to the core of. Okay, that's a really great reason we need to do it this way. Great. Or sounds like, you know, because if you do things because that was the way it was done 20 years ago, but the everything is different than it was 20 years ago. Expectations are different. Communication is different. Like there's not one thing that's the same. Um, you know, it doesn't make any sense to do it the same way. But I think the good news is if if you can get your firm comfortable and saying the future is going to be change growth by definition of change, if if you're not changing by definition, you did not grow as a person or as a firm.

Speaker2: [00:46:11] Right? And so like that's just the definition of change. And as you can get comfortable with that and it's a great place to be. Right. There's a shortage of professionals. Not many people are getting into the space. Clients literally have to have it right. That's that's one difference about the wealth management industry. You don't have to have a financial advisor, right? I mean, I would I would recommend it because I see some I see some stuff. And the worst part is when people think that they know and that's usually more dangerous to anything. Yeah. But in the tax world you literally have to do this every year. And many things are you have to, you know, there's deadlines. There's and there's penalties and issues. And so it's a required service. And there's a lot of people that don't want to deal with it. And so there's this huge void to be able to fill for professional, competent advisors that want to help their clients. Mhm.

Speaker1: [00:47:00] So it seems clear to me anyway that the maybe it's clear to our listeners too, it should. I feel like it should be by now that the future of accounting at least one very bright future, is integrating accounting and financial advice. Uh, integrated financial advice, I think is what you is that is that the term you use integrated. Yeah. Financial advice. Um, so walk me through a typical client like on say a calendar basis. Like what? What are the big, uh, milestones or meetings that you have with clients when you're doing it all for them?

Speaker3: [00:47:38] Yeah.

Speaker2: [00:47:39] So the big you know, a lot of our it depends on the type of client, right? I mean what I find is the, the primary. So let's say there's two ongoing advisors I would say in most, well, any complexity with a client. There's two ongoing advisors, there's a CPA and usually there's a financial advisor. And let's say that's synonymous with wealth manager, investment advisor, etc. there's a CPA tax person and then there's a wealth management financial advisor, whatever you want to call it. And those are just ongoing relationships with that client they need to engage with every single year. So there's attorneys that are great and useful, but they're kind of coming in Transactionally right. There's all these other relationships that show up when something needs to be done, and then they go away until something else needs to be done. But ongoing. There's those two relationships. So over the course of the year, it really does depend on the client. If it's a business style client.

Speaker1: [00:48:27] Yeah. Let's say, uh, let's let's use me as an example. Right. Uh, has a couple of businesses, uh, starting to accumulate some assets that need some management. You know, there's, there's enough money now to, to need to he can't just put it all in index funds and hope for the best. Right, right. And, uh, yeah.

Speaker2: [00:48:45] So for business owners that are actively running and building their business, I would say the CPA is is almost kind of who's the it's kind of like who's the point advisor, who's the primary. You know what I mean? Because to say there's oh, we're both primary and we both interact with the client equally, I don't I just don't think that's accurate. Right. There's just like with work life balance, you're always swinging. You know what I mean? Like there's always if you're on vacation, you know what I mean. You're that's that's not balanced. And if you're working hard, that's not balanced. You know, there's the middle is I don't think really exists. But so for a client like you that has several businesses, you're operating, you're growing, you're young. I think your CPA team is going to be kind of primary. And your wealth management financial advisory, it's not necessarily secondary, but you're going to be engaging more and have more questions and more complexity around your tax, around your accounting, right. Numbers you can use to grow your business right now if you. Yeah. Now if you said, hey, I've loved all this, but you know what? I'm going to monetize, right? I'm going to have an exit, I'm going to sell my business. And then, you know, maybe take a hiatus for ten years and go hang out with my son. Right then primary moves over to the financial advisory side because that's where most of the complexity lies. Even from a tax standpoint. Your investment source is generating your tax issues that things get reported back to the tax team. Gotcha. And so from a wealth management, um, like service calendar standpoint, if you will, what most clients find they want. And and here's the key. You know, I've been doing this for over 20 years.

Speaker2: [00:50:11] And when I first started in the business, a client would come in and they would say, you know, they'd say, great, I want to work with you. I'd say, well, I want to work with you, too. And I'd say something to the effect of, well, Blake, like, when do you want to meet? You know, tell me what's best for you. Well, here's the thing. You don't. You're like, well, one, this is like going to the dentist. I never want to talk about this, so. But I can't say that because you seem nice, so I don't know what to say. And I'm like, uh, what about. And so the key is how often does somebody need to actually get with you where it's valuable for them, right. Where you can deliver value. You're able to, you know, whatever. So what that normally shakes out to be and what I tell clients is, rather than just letting them choose the how often they want to meet. Because most people just want to say, what do other people choose? And what do you recommend? I said, well, most people want is an abbreviated version, an abbreviated planning meeting in the middle of the year, and they want a larger meeting at the end of the year. Right. Usually that mid you know, that mid-year meeting is we're basically doing a pulse. What's an update. And from a tax standpoint that could be how are we pacing. Right. Where do we think we're going to end up. Because you don't know where the end of the year lands. But mid-year is a good kind of course correction timeline. And if you're, you know, if the client gets on and they have their financial advisor and their CPA on the same zoom call, right, you get it all.

Speaker1: [00:51:25] Done, then.

Speaker2: [00:51:26] You've already differentiated and and there's no longer like multiple points of contact trying to communicate everything to everybody. Everybody was on the call, you know, because what if it's not that and you think, okay, well, man, I don't want to do that. Okay, great. What do we want to do? The client has to schedule a call with their CPA. Then they got to schedule a call with their wealth manager. Then they have to somehow interpret what those people were saying.

Speaker1: [00:51:50] Yeah. The lost in translation.

Speaker2: [00:51:54] Which they understand neither of these languages. Right. Because it's hieroglyphics and Mandarin, right. They don't know either of them. And so they're like, okay, now I got to take this back and put it together because I know they're not going to talk, you know what I mean?

Speaker1: [00:52:05] Because I don't want them talking because my tax guy is going to bill me hourly for it.

Speaker2: [00:52:10] Yeah. That's right. It's just more time. Right. And so it's a mess. It's an absolute mess. So you've already differentiated yourself. And the good news is this used to be like, oh we got to get in a room and all this. Most people want a zoom call now. Oh yeah. Right.

Speaker1: [00:52:22] Like yeah.

Speaker2: [00:52:23] Absolutely. Like I have clients that live three miles from my office, and I can't drag them in there for any, for any amount of money because they go, I can sit in my living room. And frankly, I think it can be just as intimate. You know, when their grandkids run around, sometimes my nine year old will pop in here going to and from cheer. I think it's great. Um, so but when you can have your two ongoing professionals showing up at the same time, delivering the same message, and if it's not the same message, you can see them work out the plan real time, which usually takes five minutes or less, right? Versus huge mistakes that cost the client a ton of money, which everybody's in trouble then. So it's just a better solution to the current model, which is just piecemeal. And I think the future is really, you know, from an integrated advice standpoint, when I think when I say that's the future, what I mean is not because I think, you know, financial advising and tax is great together. I mean, I think it is. But why is it great together? Because it makes the client's life easier. Yes. And everything in the future is about allowing people to be lazy. Everything. Doordash. Oh, hit the button Uber. I don't want to just I just show up, you know, the nice car, the you know, people are so busy. They have complications in their life. So much is hard. They're paying for easy.

Speaker1: [00:53:38] And and I'll toss the earmark app in there. We make it easy for lazy CPAs. That's right there, CPA. Anytime, anywhere. Yeah, I can just sit here.

Speaker2: [00:53:47] I can learn something. And that's why video has become I do a lot of video. I send out a video every week. Right. For clients with a commonly asked question, why is video becoming more prevalent than reading? Because you can be lazy. I can sit back, have my cereal or whatever on a Sunday morning. You know, you don't have to actively engage and use that precious brain energy. Your brain does not want to use the energy it wants you to conserve. And so you have to let it. And in particular, when you deal with the complexity with tax and accounting and the complexity with investments and estate planning and insurance, all these things, having the client in the middle of this, trying to be the quarterback is an absolute disaster. Not because they can't. There are plenty of smart people, but because they don't want to commit the time and the energy to do this when.

Speaker1: [00:54:34] They're like, I don't the energy to run this.

Speaker2: [00:54:36] Yeah, like.

Speaker1: [00:54:37] Y'all run my business.

Speaker2: [00:54:38] Yeah, yeah, I have something to do that's worth way more than me trying to understand this whole new business, by the way, you guys handle it like, why are we still on the call? And so I think it's a huge time saver. I think everybody wins. It's way better outcomes. Um, and so it's really then it's really just a matter of logistics.

Speaker1: [00:54:56] Kyle, thank you so much for joining me. I want to end with a listener question, Patrick, in our live stream asked, how do we get started in wealth management as a CPA? What are the educational and licensing requirements? Now? I know we can go look that up. Sure. So I think I'm for this answer. I'm more interested in the time we have left and just understanding, like how a CPA could get into wealth management if that's what they want to pursue.

Speaker3: [00:55:23] Sure.

Speaker2: [00:55:24] Um, so for Patrick, what I would say are we what's the timeline here?

Speaker1: [00:55:27] We have five minutes.

Speaker3: [00:55:29] Okay. Okay, good.

Speaker2: [00:55:30] I think I could go on this one for a long time. So so I'm like, so there's this all here's all your decisions. But really so if you're a CPA and you say, you know, this is great, how about a real centralized point of contact and I'll just do it right. Um, so the licensing requirements are, you know, I want to say it depends on if there's all kinds of broker dealers that you can affiliate with and where, you know, you get your license. I think there's a serious series seven and 66. It's not that hard relative to the the accounting and CPA exams you've passed. Right? I remember accounting in college and it took me the entire time in college to pass the required accounting course. So if you've done that, you would be fine with whatever licensing requirements are required for you to deliver wealth management advice. If you want to deliver wealth management advice as a registered investment advisor, which means you don't accept commissions, you are a required fiduciary. That's typically where the industry is going. Um, that's ironically less licensing. I think it's a 66, uh, Um, if you want to deliberate through a broker dealer where somebody's handling all your stuff in the back, there's I think there's a 37 and 66. But yeah, it's it's pretty easy to look up the educational requirements. There's very little, um, much less than to be a CPA.

Speaker2: [00:56:39] Um, the question that I would ask for, Patrick, is, do you want to deliver this yourself? Right? Or do you want it to be delivered in an integrated fashion. And that's different in terms of. So that's kind of like if I said, well, maybe I'll just start doing tax return for clients myself. I'm not saying it's impossible. I could figure it out. But is it does it best serve the client? Because I do know CPAs that offer financial advice as themselves. They get their FS certificate certification. I think it's the personal financial specialist or something, which is the designation specifically to learn about this. But both industries are pretty complicated. And as you're dealing with clients that move higher up on the complexity chain, they kind of say, I'd love, I want, I'd like experts to be connected and solving this problem for me. Um, so it really depends on the type of client that you're servicing. It can be pretty complicated to do both really well because there are different processes and, you know, whatever. Um, but if you did want to do it, you absolutely can. Um, the primary designation I see with CPAs is the FS, and then there's some either the seven or the 66. But yeah, that I would, uh, go on ChatGPT or cloud AI and look that up. They can tell you all the right answers. Um, yeah.

Speaker1: [00:57:51] My favorite for research these days is perplexity.

Speaker2: [00:57:54] Perplexity is is really good. Um, you know, it's perplexity. And I think, you know, that's just going to be one of those things where, you know, you hear about AI and it's, oh, the professional versus AI. It's not. It's the professional using AI versus the professional not using AI. And it is completely unfair for if you're not using it to go against somebody that is, you know, the stuff that used to take me, a team of people working on is now me probably five minutes in a chat window. Um, so it's the future is super interesting. But yeah, from a wealth management standpoint, the big decision that I think all firms need to make is do we want to do it, you know, do we want it to be more integrated? Do we want to do it ourselves literally, or do we want another professional where it's integrated? Yeah.

Speaker1: [00:58:37] I feel like combining or making a partnership with a wealth manager is such a great way to go. It's something I toyed with, you know, with my own wealth manager. We talked about this should because because he has the same frustrations that you did. Kyle, where he can't get accurate information timely from the tax pro. Right. Because they're not connected. Right. And so and they're just busy.

Speaker2: [00:58:59] It's not like they don't want to talk to you. You could be great friends. They're just like I'm knee deep in it right now. It's not part of the process. And so it's just what it's inherently broken just like the tax season. And so like okay. But it does take work for cautionary tale. Um it's a lot of work. You got to go into this and say, we're going to burn the boats, and this is what we're doing, because, you know, if you if you think you're going to back out as soon as a hiccup shows up, there's lots of hiccups, just like any major change. You just got to say, we're putting our shoulders into this. This is going to be valuable for our clients and we're going to make it work.

Speaker1: [00:59:30] I just pasted a link, a perplexity link for Patrick's question into the chat. Feel free to follow that, of course, as with any AI tool, uh, do your due diligence, click into those references and read. Read the original source because they can still make mistakes.

Speaker2: [00:59:50] It gets creative. We'll say that sometimes they get creative.

Speaker1: [00:59:53] Even, uh, in the last few moments. Asked, is there any time to ask about AI preparing tax returns? I have heard of a few, but have not actually seen it. Yeah, um, I have also heard of, uh, some companies trying this tax. I think tax GPT is one of them. I have not.

Speaker2: [01:00:09] Getting answers, you know, so like black or is going to be I mean I think with anything when you're dealing with, you know, how involved is I going to be in tax returns or how how involved is I going to be in accounting? I mean, look, here's the deal. This is basically just OCR, right? Like this is basically like these are numbers moving into boxes. This is prime time for artificial intelligence, which is just another way of saying much smarter technology, right? Yeah. Um, yeah. This is really there. You know, I there's plenty of talk on is it really artificial intelligence or AGI or whatever. But the reality of it is as technology gets better numbers going into boxes is going to be taken over by somebody that does something that does it better with less mistakes, that doesn't sleep, that's cheaper. And so our role is to say, how do we look at this? Not as it's not a threat. This is a tool to use to do the stuff we don't want to do. So we can focus on the stuff that we do want to do, which is helping clients make better financial decisions.

Speaker1: [01:01:02] And I think that is a great way to end this. Kyle, thank you so much for joining me today, and thanks to everyone who joined us live. If you want to join us for future live interviews, download the earmark app or go to Earmark App in your web browser and check out the events tab. I've got an interview with the CFO of the Savannah Bananas coming up, the baseball team you may have seen if you're on TikTok or Instagram Reels. Uh, hard to describe. So if you haven't seen it, just search Savannah bananas and you will see what I mean. And the CFO is just as crazy and innovative as that baseball team is, so I'm looking forward to that. All right. I'm going to play a brief video explaining how to earn CPE for attending today. Kyle, I'll see you on the other side. Okay.

Speaker2: [01:01:51] Great. Blake. Thanks.

Speaker1: [01:01:52] Today's event has ended. To earn CPE, go to earmarked app or scan the QR code on the screen. Then log in or create your free account. Search for the course by tapping on the magnifying glass icon on the home screen, and then entering the name of this event. It takes a few days to make the course, so if you're attending this event live, keep an eye out for an email letting you know when the course is available. Pass the quiz to earn your CPE. Then tap the button to email yourself a certificate. Stay tuned for more events from your mark. Thanks for joining us and we hope to see you again soon.