Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
A conversation about cars, trucks, tugs and other machines of transport that flows like an ADHD fever dream, hosted by Hoonigan co-founder and 321 Action Action director Brian Scotto. Enjoy, it’s gonna be a bizarre ride.
S3 E24 Audio
===
[00:00:00] What's up and welcome back to another episode of Very Vehicular, brought to you by Vyper Industrial. And as always, I'm your host, Brian Scotto. Today we have TJ Hunt and he came to win. Yeah, that's right. We set the record for the longest Very Vehicular podcast ever. And he kinda turned the table on me and asked me a bunch of hard questions.
We get into the business of this thing that we do. We also get into a little bit of a therapy session together. And lastly, we talk about cars. Yeah, we actually, we, we did talk about cars as well. Anyway, like I said, this is gonna be a long one. I'd go grab a snack. Everybody knows wearing sunglasses at night is for douchebags.
Fortunately, Heat Wave Visual also makes apparel. They've got great designs on everything from hats, hoodies, T-shirts, and even socks. But what they really kill at is their collabs. For example, they have an ongoing series with Chevy that includes the Heartbeat of America shirt I'm wearing now, plus a rad series with Chevy trucks.
They've [00:01:00] also worked with my friends at Isenhouer Racing, and who knows, maybe one day there'll be a Scotto edition. And if you wanna see that happen, head on over to their Instagram @heatwavevisual and get to pestering them. Thanks. What's that old saying? Don't ever meet your heroes. Unfortunately, this applies to cars too, as my buddy Ken Block discovered when he bought his Ford RS200.
To say it politely, the suspension sucked, so we went to KW to fix it on their seven-post suspension rig. Some say it was misappropriated in the middle of the night from an F1 team, and it once knocked out the power grid of a small village. But what we do know for certain is that this machine allows KW to create any test conditions needed to best develop their suspension across the entire product line.
Go check out kwsuspension.com and get yourself a kit developed on this insane seven-post technological torture device. I, I mean, suspension rig.[00:02:00]
All right, TJ, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Oh, man. First off, uh, this wasn't gonna be the first thing, but, like, can you talk about what you drove here? Or are you, like, giving stuff away? No, no, no, no, no. Uh, it's a 2013 Vantage V8 4.7 manual. I love that car. I- It's, like, so slept on. So I'm like, I just released a video, like, probably, like, 36 hours ago- Okay
that is, like, this big breakdown of this is such a great car, and no one's paying attention to them- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... at all. And, like, I don't blame anybody because I was very much the same way. I would look at a Vantage- Mm-hmm ... and, like, I had this weird assumption, I feel everyone is, like, kind of on the same page, that they're just unreliable and, like, not cool.
They're, they're British. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're British. So, like, you just go, "Mm." Like, there's a [00:03:00] reason why they're, like, 100,000. I mean, I bought the car for 50 grand, which was a steal, but the original MSRP on my car was 140. Yeah. So I'm like, "Oh, there's gotta be something just, that's just shit." Can, can I say that?
Yeah, you can say whatever the fuck you want. Okay. That, it's just a, it's shit. Like, there has to be. It's not, like, a 911, you know what I'm saying? And I saw it on Facebook Marketplace, and I'm like, I'm, like, addicted to Marketplace. Like, it's v- Same here, buddy ... yeah. So, and I just saw it, and, like, I low-balled the guy after, like, three months.
I finally... He was asking 65, which was, like, pretty fair, and I got him down to 50. Yeah. And, uh, I've had it for, like, three weeks. It's so good. So I was a journalist when that car first came out, and I remember when I drove it, I think I made the argument that, like, this is, you should buy this instead of a 911.
I don't know if I still feel that way, but at the time, like, you know, the 911's the gold standard, and it sounds really good. It drives really great. Like, everything about it's great. And I spent, like, three weeks with it, um, in San Francisco, like, up to Mount Tam. Like, just [00:04:00] i- doing everything from, like, sitting in traffic on the Golden Gate to, like, driving amazing roads- Mm-hmm
to just doing city stuff. Like, it did all of it great. I don't think in the time that it came out I would buy it over a 997 because if you, like, compare it, like, that car was 130, 140- Yeah ... my specific one, when it came out. And that, that was more than a GT3? Yeah. So it's like I would absolutely much rather have a GT3 over- Yeah
that car, but in today's market value, that car being at like a 60 to 65, I'd rather own that than a C2S. Yeah. Might not be better than a C2S in certain ways, but it, it's, does a lot of things better than a 911 C2S, in my opinion. And I, I also just like it 'cause it, the 911 has kind of become like ubiquitous in like in like the like- It's-
performance car culture. It's like it's everywhere. Yeah. And you just don't see that car as much. It looks really good. It looks amazing. 'Cause I was kinda playing the game of like, oh, I wonder what you'll drive here today. Yeah. It's like, and like I, like I don't text guests 'cause I kind of wanna be surprised of like, [00:05:00] oh, what it'll be.
And like when I, when I, I kind of heard the car, but I didn't hear it from that far away, and I was like, oh, I figured I'd hear you from like half a block away. Uh-huh. Yeah. And then I was like, oh, you got that. Really nice. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, I always like play a game. I'm like, okay, where am I going? I play like the odds of like, okay, if I bring this car, am I gonna get hassled by CHP?
Yeah. Or it's like leaving... Like San Diego's like pretty good. Yeah. Of like if you're not being a shithead. Yeah. I always tell people, like if you're not, if you're not excessively speeding, if you're not just being an asshole generally, like- Or if you're not, car's not too loud. E- but even that, like- Yeah ... if you're trying to be respectable about it, like, y- you're, I've been pretty okay.
Yeah, we just had this conversation on the last pod with me, Vin, and Ron that as much as people talk about California being, like, the worst place to own a car, it's still the best car culture, and surprisingly, like, as long as you're, like, kind of respectful, like, you usually can kinda get away with it. [00:06:00] I mean, I've been pulled over more times than I can count, and have been- Yeah
let off, and it's been in, like, anything you could name. Yeah. Um, and they're usually like, "Really cool car, I just didn't know what it was," or, like, "The plate looked weird." Right. "So I wanted to check it." Like, despite anything that the car may or may not have on it, they're like, "Yeah, just- Yeah ... like, you're, you're good."
I'm like- Have you had cops pull you over and, like, be straight honest with you that they just pulled you over to look at the car? Yeah. That's pretty cool. Yeah. O- oh, it's sometimes that. Sometimes it's like, "Oh, I've, I've seen you on YouTube. I pulled you over, and I could say I pulled you over because of a tint or this or that, but, like, can I get a photo?"
Really? "And can I take a photo of the car?" Oh, I haven't had that. Yeah. That's sick. Yeah. I filmed it on a vlog one time. Um, I was in, like, my Mk5 Supra, like, right when it came out. Um, and it w- we did the Street Hunter wide body kit on it, and, like, some of my friends, like, pranked me, and, like, I went to get it in to get painted, and they painted it orange and put a Fast and Furious livery on it.
I was like- I remember that, yeah ... "That is so brutal, you guys." But when I [00:07:00] drove that, uh, an officer pulled me over just to see it and was like, "This is really cool. Can I get a photo?" And I was like, "Yeah, just don't... Just let me go, and you can do whatever you want." The greatest moment for me on that, it was, like, 2005.
Ford had just launched, uh, the Ford GT. Yeah. And I got a press loaner. They were letting all of the press drive it for one hour. Something happened, and the guy who was r- this dude, Octavio, who was running the press c- cars at the time said to me, he's like, "Hey, I, I can't get there, but, like, just have the car back by night."
So I'm, like, a 25-year-old kid with a Ford GT, the keys to the Ford GT, and, you know, 12 hours with it. I think I ran, like, four tanks of gas through it. That's sick. Yeah, 'cause the thing gets, like, four miles to the gallon. Yeah. But I was on the FDR Drive in New York City trying to get out of the city. Oof.
'Cause, like, the number one thing you have to do is, like, okay, I have to get out of New York to go drive this thing- Yeah ... and open it up. 100%, 100%. And, like, the FDR is bumper-to-bumper traffic, and the cars are rolling Cars are like, you know, rolling forward and I'm [00:08:00] letting traffic roll out so I can just do like first gear pulls- Mm-hmm
first gear pulls. I do it, I do it once, do it twice, and then all of a sudden I see the cherry's behind me. Yeah. And I'm like, "Ah." And the cop pulls up next to me and he's like, "Is that the Ford GT?" Yeah. He's like- And I was like, "Yeah." He's like, "How do you have that?" I was like, "Oh, it's a press car." He's like, "Hold on a second."
And he like threw it, in like New York they used to have these, uh, cop lights that would like lift up so that- Yeah ... you could like see even farther. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he like lifts up the lights and just shuts the road down. He's like, "All right, let him go a bit. All right, now you can do a f- now you can get in-" That's sick
now he's like, "Now you can get," he's like, "Now you can get in the second gear." See, if you had a, if you had a camera for YouTube, that- Oh, at this- Yeah ... it was 2005. Yeah. I actually did have a camera with us, but like I don't know, we didn't film that. 'Cause I was like so nervous when the cop first pulled up- Oh, for sure
that it was like... Yeah. For sure. It was just sort of a different thing. So fun fact, I was in, I was in one of the original Ford GT commercials. Wait, what? Yep. Yep. Okay, you gotta tell me this, 'cause you were like 10? I was seven or eight, nine, 10. Yeah, yeah. Around that. Oh, f- I was 10. Yeah, I was 10. Um. You're [00:09:00] what, early 30s now?
Yeah, I'm 30. Okay. 31. Okay. 31. Um, I, so I played hockey my whole entire life. Yep. Played for 19 years. Um, I traveled on the road like with a... So Southern California has a massive hockey culture. Yep. Believe it or not, people don't really realize that. They think San Diego or LA. Yeah, yeah. Even LA. Um, but I played my whole entire life and I- Well, I know like Mickey's f- like- Yeah
a huge hockey guy too. Yeah, but he came from Ohio- Right ... from the East. Yeah, true. But h- the hockey culture in San Diego or in LA is huge. Um- But- I mean, it was the Kings and- The, yeah, that- ... Wayne Gretzky and all that. That's more my era, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I was, uh, the team I was on in the area, they were doing, um, they were doing a...
Our coach was like, "They're shooting a Ford GT commercial in San Diego for Phil Mickelson." Mm-hmm. And the whole premise of the commercial was what will Phil do next? Oh, okay. And it was, and they got Wayne Gretzky involved. So it was Phil [00:10:00] Mickelson, Wayne Gretzky, and essentially it was Phil was going, was quitting golf and was going to do his next professional sport, and he wanted to- Right
play hockey. Yeah. So he dressed up as a goalie, and we went down to the Croc Center, um, ice rink, and did a full day of just, like, our whole team, there took like four or five of us to go and shoot on Phil Mickelson, and like have, like, the young kids just, like, dust on him- Yeah, yeah. ... and everything go in the net.
And Wayne was there, um- Oh, man, that's- ... Phil was there. Um, they had a Ford GT there, and then at the end of it he goes, "Well, I think I'll just keep, you know, ho- maybe I won't do hockey, but I'm gonna get the new Ford GT." And it was really a sick commercial. Oh, wow. I still have it somewhere in my archives, but- Yeah, you're gonna have to get that for us.
Yeah, it was, I was... Yeah, that, that was really cool. All right. So before we took a little bit of a detour on how rad the Vantage V8 is, the thing I wanted to actually kind of start on as a topic is... And I, I'm sure you think about this, but, like, you were kind of one of the pioneers for, like, [00:11:00] what is the modern, like, vlog build, right?
Like, you were doing it early on- Yeah ... when no one was doing it. Mm-hmm. And now it's, like, probably one of the most saturated markets in YouTube. Absolutely. Right? So, like, there's a lot of other people who've done other types of content. Um, when we were at Hoonigan, we kind of did a bit of everything, but we didn't even start with the build stuff.
But for you, that was like, that was the thing that you were doing early on. Yeah. And you did sort of that original model of, you know, I'm learning this as I go. Mm-hmm. Like, I don't know- Mm-hmm ... what I'm doing. Mm-hmm. I'm not a mechanic. Mm-hmm. I'm not a specialist. Mm-hmm. I'm, like, a young kid who's figuring this out.
Yeah. I'm gonna make mistakes along the way. And that was, like, a new, entirely new space. Like, no one else was really doing that. Right. I would say probably the closest was, like, Mighty Car Mods was doing it, but- They were a big inspiration, too. Yeah. So, like, I mean, one, like, how, what, like, why choose to get into, into that and kind of go do that?
But I, I think to bring it more [00:12:00] present day, like, what is sort of like... How do you see everyone else who's doing it now? 'Cause, like, I, I have people who have asked me all the time, like, "Oh, I wanna start a YouTube channel." I'm like, "I don't know if you should." Right? Like, like you were there early doing one particular model, and you have obviously done very well and perfected it, but- Yes.
I think there's a couple, like, ways to attack this situation, but to kind of tackle what you said last, I don't think you should do it. I think that a lot of people today do it for every single wrong reason. I was just talking to someone about this- Right ... and he's like, "I wanna... I'm starting this channel," blah blah blah, or, "I wanna do this," which, like, I always love, like, getting into, like, not, like, debates with people, but just, like, respectfully shitting on them as quickly as possible because they're like- I like that.
They're like, "I, you know, I'm trying to do this thing. I'm trying to do this YouTube thing," and like, I'll be like, "Cool. How many up- how many videos have you done?" You- 90% of the time the answer is zero, and I'm like, "Okay, then why are you even asking me this question? You haven't even started." But they'll- or they'll be like, "Well, I filmed three."
And I'm like, "Okay. [00:13:00] Over how long have you posted?" Mm-hmm. And he's like, "Mm..." Like, and I'm not speaking of anyone in particular, but this is just, like, the general consensus. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The- he'll be like, "Uh, I've uploaded three videos in the last three months." I'm like, "Cool. Still nowhere." Like, you need to upload at least 100 videos minimum that year before you could even, like, try to talk and ask a question.
Mm-hmm. Because, like, you have no... You can't answer anything I'll ask you. Right. Like, there's no data. You have nothing to go off of. And then secondly, um, I always ask people, I'm like, "Well, what's your goal?" And they're like, "Well, I really, like, you know, I loved how you've done this, and like, I wanna start this thing, and I wanna be able to buy this thing."
I'm like, "Cool. You're already starting with an expectation of a result, and, like, you've already lost the plot." Like, if you have a, if you have an expectation of a result, this is not the game for you. Right. And when I started, I never had a... Like, when I first started, there was no expectation of a result.
Right. I just did it because I truly wanted to do it, and that's usually my premise, and I'm like, if you could do YouTube- [00:14:00] Just because you gave a fuck about it, period- Mm-hmm ... then you'll be successful. But if you go into it like, "Oh, I'm, I wanna be like X, Y, and Z," then I'm like, you kind of already lost. Yeah.
Because everything that you do is not necessarily, like, ingenuine, but, like, you're doing it for a reason or purpose because you've, you're telling yourself there is a certain payoff or cutoff, and if you don't see yourself making that between whatever estimated timeline you've given yourself, you have already lost.
You know what I mean? Do you, or when you first started doing this, and, and I know you did paintball stuff before- Mm-hmm ... but when you first do, started doing the car content, um, why did you wanna make it? Because, so at the time, like, when I started YouTube, it was like YouTube was three years old, three or four years old.
Yeah. Like, I remember watching- At least in, like, the modern version of it. Yeah, yeah. Like, what YouTube was, I remember watching YouTube when I was, like, really addicted to YouTube. It was, like, 2007. I was in seventh grade and I was watching YouTube videos, and at that point it was like YouTube was very much, like, of its original motto, which was broadcast yourself.
[00:15:00] There were no brands. There were no, there were no, like, Hoonigans, which we'll get into, 'cause I used to, like, kinda fucking hate that. It's like Hoonigan existed, and I'm like, "This is not what YouTube is for." You, you guys are a show. YouTube is for individuals. But, like, we'll get into that. We can get into it.
Um. Um, and, you know, throughout high school I never really watched too much TV, but I was watching a lot of vlogging. Like, one of my original channels I used to watch was called BF vs, uh, GF. It was, uh, this guy Jesse and Gina. They're, like, the original OG couple YouTube. Mm-hmm. They're, like, a couple, and they vlogged every single day.
Yeah. About nothing. Yeah. Just, like, they lived in Philly. They would travel. They would do things. Then there was, like, the Casey Neistat era and all that stuff, but, like, b- before that, that's the content that I digested. Okay. Rather than watching TV, I was watching their daily uploads, and I was like, man, I fucking know these two individuals.
Right. So I very much became in love with that. And then when I started to get my, when I was getting closer to getting my license when I was 16, I've always loved cars since I was younger. Lived in San Diego, so La Jolla, [00:16:00] tons of exotic cars. Back in the day it was called Symbolic Motors. I'd go there all the time, take photos of exotic cars, and just, like, brochure shop.
And I remember when I got my license, I was like, I couldn't wait. Like, my, I took my driver's test the morning of my birthday, December 29th, 7:00 a.m. I study. I was like, "I'm not, like, I can't wait. I'm, I can't wait to get on the road." And, um, I just remember being, like, trying to watch YouTube content about cars, and it was Mighty Car Mods, and it was, like, That Dude in Blue- Right
or Chris Harris. I was gonna say Drive Network stuff, yeah. Yeah. And it was all reviews. Yep. Like, I'm driving this car, here's how it is. Not too much car installs. Yeah. There were some DIY forums and stuff like that that someone make a video and just blast it to a thread, but there was no one that was like, there was no one that was in the world that I was watching of, like, vlogging that did car stuff.
So I was like And I, and [00:17:00] because I g-, as I m- mentioned, I played hockey my whole entire life, even to when I still started the YouTube channel I was still playing hockey. And, like, there were some seasons where I did school on the road, where we had, like, a school teacher- Yeah ... like, we were traveling- Not homeschooling, but travel
all the time. Yeah. Yeah. And we were not allowed to... You know, I was playing AAA, and I was, like, flying to different states playing for different teams playing AAA. Like, that was... Like, I was supposed to be a hockey player. Like, that was w- where, that was how I was raised to be. And we weren't allowed to, like, really, like, have fun.
Like, once you got to the hotel, no hot tub, no pool. You could go to, like, the convention- No hot tub? No, because it would, it would get you too tired for the next day. Like, just all these, like, random rules that we had. But s- By the way, not to tangent, but the last, uh, we had LZ on the show, and the show ended with him being like, "Going to TJ's for the hot tub."
Yeah. He's like, "Do you know about the hot tub?" I'm like, "I don't know about the hot tub." "I guess I'll have to find out." So It's LZ's favorite thing is the hot tub, 'cause his hot tub's never working at his house. Oh. So every time he comes over he's like, "Can we use the hot tub?" I'm like, "Yeah, we can use the hot tub, LZ."
Um, [00:18:00] but w- so, like, more or less, because I watched YouTube, I would, like... I had this MacBook that I did all my schoolwork on, and I would, like, go on iMovie and go in, like, the f- uh, photo room, whatever the ph- photo booth. Yeah, yeah. And I would just, like, make stupid videos with my teammates. I forgot about Photo Booth, yeah.
Yeah. Like, I, that was what I... So I learned how to edit, and we would do just, like, stupid shit. Like, just dumb stuff. So I knew how to edit, um, but never, like, did anything. And how old are you at this point? Man, 9, 10, 11- Wow ... 12. Yeah. Like, just, like, making homemade videos. Mm-hmm. Um, like, my, I have a YouTube channel that no one even knows about that still exists today that's from that era, and it's, like, videos like how to make a smoke bomb out of ping pong balls and tinfoil.
Like, just like- And it's still, it's still there ... it's still there. It's still there. And, like, I used to play guitar a lot, so, like, there's, like, videos of me, like, teaching you how to play, like, the Crazy Train solo. Mm-hmm. Like, I had a channel before this channel. I had, like, a skateboarding channel. I had a bunch of stuff that I would just, like, throw it up.
So when I got my license I was like I want to film myself with my car because this type of [00:19:00] content d- doesn't exist. Yeah. And I just truly enjoyed it. Like, I, I just truly, like, no intention of anything ever happening, I just liked filming myself with my car, and I was like, "It'll be cool to look back on one day."
And then like, you know, fast-forward and, like, I started to do it more and more and more, and, like, didn't really have any success or traction, but I start... I sold my BMW that I had and got a BRZ, and, um, again, with no real intention of YouTube involved in that. But I started to, um, you know, I lived on the forums.
I was a forum junkie, like- Mm-hmm ... um, and I was trying to research how to do, like, the things I could afford, and there was write-ups and stuff. I was like, "I'll just film it so I could, like, throw it on the forum." Yep. Um, and at this time too, like, I didn't have any money. Um, I worked, like, as, like, a part-time salesman at a wrap shop trying to, like, commission cars out, and I got most of my funding by just going to the casino.
Mm-hmm. I love blackjack. Oh, really? I'm a big, big, big blackjack player. I didn't know that. Um, I have blackjack tattooed on my arm. Oh, wow. Like, I, I [00:20:00] fucking love the game. So my dad always played when I was younger- Do you count, like, do you count cards blackjack or do you... Is that, like- I can't admit anything on camera, Scotto.
Um, no, but I, I, I used... I use advantages to the game to, to play it. Right. But so b- I ask that 'cause, like, there are pe- people who like blackjack are a different type of person than someone who likes poker. It's, like, a very different game. Yeah. Like, so I, I, I went through a period of time where I dabbled in liking blackjack.
Mm-hmm. And then I lost a bunch of money one weekend, and I was like, "I don't really like blackjack anymore." It could definitely happen. You just have to have the bankroll to play out your systems. But long story short, my dad had a bunch of blackjack books. Mm. Like, a bunch. Um, and he played in tournaments and all the stuff.
So, like, when I was... There's a casino where I live called Barona. Yeah. It's no alcohol, 18 and up. So when I was 17, that's when we started to, like, in high school you could drive, sneak in there. And I read every book my dad had on how to count, how to understand the game- Mm-hmm ... knowing every hand, all the situations and stuff, which, like, you still have a very big probability to lose, but m- I was like, "I'm gonna sharpen my s- [00:21:00] I'm gonna-" Yeah
sharpen my skills as much as possible- Yeah ... and try to win. And I'd be like, "Okay, you know, next week I'm, I'm gonna try to save up for, like, an exhaust. All I have to do is win, like, 400 bucks." So I'd go in there with, like, 50 or 75 bucks, and at the time, when the only thing I could afford was, like, $5 minimum, six-deck, eight-deck- Yeah
continuous shuffle, which, like, can't really count too much on those. But I would just gamble my way to get enough money to film the video, and I did that for, like, a year almost before I s- the videos, like, started to make traction. And throughout this whole process, um, I was, you know, blasting all these videos on forums to try to get extra views, every Facebook group, and then I was just getting, like, chewed alive by everybody, like, all the, all the old men, which is probably dudes my age now-
that was just, like, you know, just hating on me- Right ... for doing stuff like this, and, like, whatever, I get it. How did you deal with that at the time? Uh, well, before they all just, like, ended up blocking me on all the pages and all that stuff- Yeah ... I mean, I was just like, I was a bit like, "I got an extra [00:22:00] thousand views- Right
on this for- But I know, like, you got a lot of critique early on because, again, you were one of the first people to be like, "I'm learning as I do this." And everybody wants to be like, "You're doing it wrong." Yeah, I mean, I think that I just didn't know any other way. Yeah. So I wasn't like, you know, I didn't come from, like, this, "I've, you know, been watching, like, such and such."
Right. Like, I, I didn't have any other information that I had absorbed other than just, like, magazines- Yeah ... and, and stuff. Like, I didn't, I wasn't in the world of cars. But, like, it didn't deter you. I mean, it definitely, like, sucked. Yeah. I'm just like, "I'm just trying to do this." Yeah. I just didn't really think I understood most of the critiquing, and which is why in the videos I'm like, "I don't know what I'm doing."
Yeah. I, if you're watching me, clearly you want to try to do this, so, like, I'll show you my trials and tribulations to, like, give you the encouragement to try it yourself. Yeah. Because w- I didn't have anything else. Mm-hmm. I didn't have, like, a cool car and, like, an, an obnoxious amount of money to just, like, have people care.
So I really tried to focus [00:23:00] on... The videos were always, I might get you interested to click the video because it's an install of something or a topic or something, but the video was always half of that, or maybe, like, 40% that and then 60% me vlogging me. Right. And whatever friends I was with. Like, that was my, like, angle, was like, "Well, all I have is me."
And then, you know, fast-forward a little bit and I was like, "Okay, there's, like, some traction here. I'm making, like, 200 bucks a month." I s- quickly started to fall more in love with the side of business and the side of where I thought the industry was going almost more than the content itself. Oh, interesting.
Yeah. I still loved the content, but I started... When people started, like, emailing me to, like, promote some, like, whatever, I started to realize that there was an angle- Mm-hmm ... to this game. Um, and I remember very early on reaching out, reaching out to e- like, websites like FT86speedfactory.com and, like- Yeah
these random BRZ [00:24:00] websites, and I was like, "Hey, I have this channel. I have this thing. I, if you give me..." I remember one of them was like, "If you gave me, like, $1,000 of retail pr-" I didn't even know what cost of price was on that. Yeah. I was like, "If you give me $1,000 a month on your website, I will promote you in every video saying I got your stuff."
And I was like, "Dude, if I do this, like, I could get, like, four more videos this month." And I started very q- when I started, like, getting feedback, and I'm, like, 18. Like- Mm-hmm ... wri- on, like, a notebook from Staples, like, writing out these, like- ... business plans and, like, trying to, like, strategically, like, pull random things out of my ass.
I started really falling in love with- The business side of it- Yeah ... and what it, and then, and then as I started to become a little bit more knowledgeable about that, I, like, was 100% convinced that YouTube and Instagram were gonna be the future of the automotive culture in the sense of TV commercials, TV shows, magazines.
I was like, "There's no way- Yeah ... [00:25:00] there's not gonna be more of me." And this is, like, 2014, '15- Yeah ... kinda? Yeah. Like, yeah, '14, '13- Yep ... '15, around there. Um, and I quickly became much more intrigued with the business than anything else. Like, I, obviously I loved the cars, and that was the passion- Yeah, yeah, yeah
behind it. But I was like, "I can use this in a way to create something much, much more," not really knowing how far it would go. But I just remember, like, every night, like, visualizing and dreaming. I'm like, I, there's no way I will not be one of the top creators and do... Like, I, like, everything I have today, I wrote out on my, like, vision board when I was, like, 17, 18.
Is that something that, like, you set as goals for yourself? Or was it, like, a- Not even goals, because a goal to me is something that you don't think can really happen. Right. It wasn't, I never, I never not thought this would happen. Yeah. Like, when I got started, I was like, there- [00:26:00] I, the, the thought never came through that like, "Oh, maybe it can't happen."
Yeah. It was like, "No, it's going to happen. I just gotta keep doing it." It, it's, it's a- So it wasn't even really a goal ... I, it's interesting 'cause, you know, I'm 15 years older than you, and I, it's always interesting when I speak to people who are your age or younger in the YouTube setting because, like, there's very little gatekeeping involved in YouTube.
Mm-hmm. In that- Mm-hmm ... if you build it, it can happen. Mm-hmm. Where, for me, when I first got into the space, like, I had to have a magazine hire me to- Mm-hmm ... do that because I couldn't really, there wasn't a platform to do it on your own at the end of the '90s- Mm-hmm ... early 2000s. So it's like you needed that person to take a chance on you.
Yeah. You couldn't, like, just kinda go build it. So I think it changes that mentality of, like, for you, you're like, "Yeah, I just, as hard as I can work, I could probably get this done because, like, the pieces are here to go do it. I just gotta go do it." Where for me, like, at least the first couple of years, [00:27:00] like, I felt that way once I started Hoonigan, but I remember, like, when I was in the magazine business, you're just like, "Okay, what's next?"
And like, "What, what's the next business?" Or like, you know, like, 'cause I wasn't running my own thing. It's like I was working for someone else because you couldn't really build your own thing unless you had millions of dollars- Mm-hmm ... to, like, to go- Mm-hmm ... to go do it. So I, I find that very interesting 'cause I remember for me it was like my 911 was my first goal.
It was like, well, when I was young, 'cause I, I, I climbed magazines quickly, so I was like, "I wanna be an editor-in-chief by, like, before 30." I hit it by 25, and then I was an editor-in-chief of three magazines before 27. And then I was like, "Oh, I wanna own a 911 before 30." And then I did that. And then it was like, then it was like, "Oh, I wanna," you know, like, and I started to, like, set these, like, weird, like, like, goals, but then I ended up, like, achieving so much other stuff that, like, I had never planned on that, like- Mm-hmm
I kinda threw the goals out. Yeah. 'Cause, like, the goals weren't that important. Yeah, yeah. You know? It's like the 911's cool, but, like, you see it sitting outside dusty right now. It's like, it's like what was cooler was the thing that I didn't realize I was gonna build, you know? What, what I almost find is usually [00:28:00] the goal, right?
Let's use that as a- Mm-hmm ... terminology. That's usually- The worst part about it Mm-hmm ... in the sense of once you get that thing, it then turns into the dusty 911 you have outside Mm-hmm ... and when you look back on it, you're like, what was almost more fun about the process was dreaming about it, and working hard, and like f- being the self-fulfilling prophecy for yourself that, like, you can get it- Yeah
and you do, and then you're like, "Oh, I'm over it now." Yeah. I, I'll be honest, I think my favorite part about project cars is, like, the dreaming up the project. Yeah. Like, al- almost like when it's getting close to done, it's like it almost feels over. Yeah. And I get for, like, other people, like, who really enjoy the driving part, and I enjoy driving my cars, but it's like, it's not the same thing as, like, the process of building it.
Yeah. Like, I like building companies, I like building content. Like, all of that is more important sometimes than the finish for me. For sure. You know? It's like the journey's more important than the destination kind of thing. Yeah, very like, you know, cliche, but I think, like, I always get a lot of like s- like [00:29:00] I always get a lot of flack because I'll, like, sell cars when I'm done with them.
Mm-hmm. And I'm like, well, yeah, I sold it because, like, it was way more fun to... It's way more fun to be like, oh, I can't... Like, I'm talking specifically about, like, the GT3 conversions we do- Yeah ... and stuff like that, um, or, like, the wild stuff, and it's beautiful. Once you build it, it's, like, borderline kinda like not as good as you want it to be.
There's that. Or it's like you're- There's that ... you know, the slippery slope of overbuilding, and then it's a nightmare. But it's just way more fun to, like, the chase and the thrill to try to get that part or that one thing and, like, try to scrounge it together- Yeah ... and, like, the first time you mount it, mount something, m- like, cool on the car, you're like, "Oh."
Like, it's those moments that are more enjoyable. And then- Yeah ... and then it's just a sitting block of money, and then you wanna build again, but all the money was tied up in that one. Do you keep track of how many cars you've built? Yeah. Like, what are you at? 50 or 60 that we've done on the channel. Wow.
Yeah. Yeah, that's a lot. Something like that. Yeah. And, like, and you've built some, like, crazy stuff. It's not just like, oh, I strapped this together. No, no. Like- They're all like- Yeah, like proper builds ... like there's nothing left you could do type- [00:30:00] Yeah ... type kind of energy. Does that stay exciting for you? No, which is why I do the GT3 shit.
And why people are like, "You just keep doing the same thing over and over," and I'm like, "Because you can't do it." Like, half the fun is, like, the high of, like, can I- Find someone to do what they're not supposed to do and sell me this old race car body that- Right ... is supposed to be for the racing teams that I'm gonna, like, destroy to put on a street car.
I- People don't understand how hard it is to actually pull that shit off I, I, I wanna get back to the, I wanna get back to some of the business conversation and some of the early stuff, but, uh- Mm-hmm ... but let's take a moment on this, 'cause, um, I actually think that there's this really weird thing that's happening with a bunch of, like, creators right now, and I, I, not whether it's good or bad, but, like, everybody is sort of moving into the GT3 space, right?
Meaning, like, I think everyone built crazy cars, they did all this stuff, they've been successful, they've made some money, and they sort of realize [00:31:00] that, like, better cars from the factory are just better cars. Mm-hmm. Right? And it's like, like, you know, Vinny doesn't wanna build another, you know, 1J Mm. 14.
Mm-hmm. Like, that's just not where his interest is anymore. He'd rather just buy another GT3 or do that. Mm-hmm. But it sort of, like, gets away from, like, what a lot of us originally built our audiences around, which was like, "I'm gonna take this thing and make it into something super special that, like, wasn't already there."
Um, h- how do you balance that for yourself? 'Cause, like, uh... And you've always had nicer cars. Like, you didn't really start with shitboxes. Yeah. Like, even your first car was, like, a E30 or whatever, like. Yeah. I, I just try not to care. Yeah. I feel like if you're building for the audience, you're screwed. Yeah.
And, like, we all are subject to it. I'm subject to it sometimes where, like, I'm doing it because I think that's what people wanna see. Yeah. Um, but, like, once you've been doing it for 15 years, you're gonna run out of cars. Yep. You're going to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, or at least [00:32:00] ones that you're, like, even just slightly interested in.
Yeah. Like, no offense, like, y- but I'd never touch a Volkswagen. No, I get it. I'll never build one. I get it. I'll never bu- I just don't see it. I don't get it. Like, maybe, like, a newer GTI, like, maybe. Yeah. But, like, I've done every JDM hero car you could think of. Yep. I've owned every exotic you can think of. I don't really care too much for hypercars.
You can't mod them. Yep. It'd be sick to spend 30, $40,000 a month on a lease for a little bit, but then you'd be like, "All right, this is..." You know, you get a cool write-off. Yeah. Like, but other than that, it's like, okay, what's left? Yeah. Right? Which is, like, me and Adam spend a lot of time talking about this, where it's like for Adam, he just, you know, just, it's like what, what weird drift combination- Yeah
of a car can I throw together? And then you get into, like, my standpoint, it's like, okay, well, I don't, like... I, I, I just buy what I like. Right. Like, what I'm feeling in that moment, I'm like, "I want one of these. I'm gonna try and buy it." But eventually you kinda run dry, and that's when I fell into the GT3.
Like, it, I first did it with a [00:33:00] 458. Mm-hmm. And at the time there was only two in the world that were converted. And to give a little bit of backstory, because a lot of people don't really understand it, but the GT3, I don't mean, like, Porsche GT3 or, like, anything, it's IMSA racing- Yeah, yeah ... GT3 class. GT2 level.
Exactly. Where those cars from factory, well, from factory, but from, like, Ferrari racing or, like, Prodrive or something, they're creating a OEM, let's say- Mm-hmm ... carbon Kevlar wide body, and nothing in the chassis is originally the same. It's just the body for homologation- Mm ... blah, blah, blah. And you can technically, like...
You can't buy them, but you can if you bribe someone- Mm-hmm ... enough and never reveal your sources. And a lot of these cars, you know, they're, like, currently what's in GT3 is just the current lineup, so, like, 296, M4, Vantage, uh, new NSX, but that's more so, like, Japanese, not necessarily here. But there's, like, a, you know, a, a slew of cars that currently there's these rare part...
Not rare, but there's parts being made for [00:34:00] it that you can only purchase if you own a GT3 race team. Yeah. And then I s- fell into that, like, found a team that had a... 'Cause the 488 had just came out, so they had a crashed 458 with spares. And I was like, "Would you sell that to me?" Mm-hmm. And a little bit of negotiating, and then got it, converted it, and I was like, this is the coolest thing in the world.
Like, it's ... Everybody wants all these, like, aero parts and all these things. Yeah. But this is, like, the coolest of cool. I mean, the one thing is, I, I always say this, like, once you're in and around real race cars, you kinda start to realize how dumb tuner stuff is. Very much. Because you're like, oh, this is on the level, right?
Mm-hmm. Like, I remember, like, you know, when I was working in the WRC, it's like you're sitting here, like, at, you know, you talk about Prodrive or M-Sport and these companies, and you just look at, like, what goes into something. And I remember, like, explaining this, and I think nowadays people understand a little more, but they're like, "Well, I don't understand, like, why that rally car's [00:35:00] so expensive.
It only makes 300 horsepower. You know, my Evo makes 700 horsepower." And it's like, yeah, but your Evo can't run at the limit with a big, fat power band for three days straight. Mm-hmm. And this thing can. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. And it's like, it's like the amount, like, what it's being asked to do- Yeah ... is so much more extreme- Yeah, without failure
than, than what you're doing. Yeah, without, like, live on redline. Right. It's not like you spun it once on the dyno and it's good. Yeah. It's like, no, this is, thing's gonna keep doing. Yeah. And that's what it's built to do. And, like, I think you build a different respect for that when you actually get close to that and you see it.
For sure. Or you see how much work someone puts into a piece that you never even see in the car. That, or if you've ever, like, if you ever dive into wheel-to-wheel in any class. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like, whether it's Miata spec, which is gangster and doesn't get the credit it deserves, but, like, look at those cars, and a spec Miata car is, like, 50 grand.
Yeah. It's a Miata, but, like, they're designed to just not stop. Mm-hmm. And it's so freaking cool. Yeah. Real racing is such a [00:36:00] different level- Yeah, yeah ... above, like, tuners, and even a big, uh, just above, like, track day stuff. Like a little- Yeah, not even the same ... what goes into it. Yeah. And- It's a whole different world
and everything, you know, on new cars today is just, like, four or five years late old technology- Yeah ... from IMSA or F1. Yeah. So, like, when I, like, really wrap my head around that I get obsessed. Do, do you like this because it's a lot more of a challenge? Is, is that part of it? I like it, it's like a drug.
'Cause, like, when you talk about this and you're like, "Oh, it's these things and it's really hard to get this and get that," like, that's no different than someone who's, like, searching for, like, a really rare JDM piece. Yeah. It, it just, it's just on a different level. Yeah, well- Do you know what I'm saying?
Like- ... there's a couple things I like about it, is one- Like, you can't find it on Marketplace, but, like No. Yeah, 1,000%. Like, one thing that I, that, like, I, I don't know, like, once you've been doing this for so long, it's like, what's, like, your new drug? Right. For me, it's like I'm the only person who's been able to get a G82 M4 GT3 on the street.
Mm-hmm. Good lu- I'm the only person- Which is YLTC, by the way ... who has the 488 GT3 Evo [00:37:00] who's ever put it on the street. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty fucking cool. Yeah. And go, go do it. Yeah. If, one, you think you have the contacts to be able to pull it off, try your hand. Right. Then they're not supposed to sell them, so good luck getting it to be sold, and then it's usually more than the price of the car.
Yeah. And then they don't fit The chassis are different lengths, so, like, nothing about it will work. Mm. You have to either change the geometry of suspension or get crafty with body work, and then dump another 40 or 50 grand. Do you feel like you got bored of regular cars and this is, like, your new thing?
Yeah, 100%. 100%. And, like, I, I just, I just ... It's just cool, and I'm like, "Okay, how many times can I go buy a car, do every bolt-on possible?" And that's why I started building friends' cars. [00:38:00] Yeah. I'm like, " Enough of me." Yeah. Like, I, I really have all that I want. I don't really wanna keep... Like, LZ's a different... Like, he has, like, 40- I didn't reali- I didn't realize he kept all his cars Yeah, he kept, he keeps it, and I'm- I figured he just slowly...
'Cause, like, I know a few people who bought cars from him, but, like, the cars that matter to him, he keeps them all. Yeah, for sure, and we always go back and forth. I'm like, "Dude, LZ, like, get a grip. Like, sell some of your stuff." Yeah. "Like, reinvest it. Do something." He's like, "No. I don't know. I like it." And I'm like, "All right, that's cool."
Like, I keep, I, I currently have, like, 25 cars, and I have a lot, and there's the, you know, a select few, a handful that, like, I'll never sell that I've had forever. But everything else, I kind of use as trading cards. At a certain point, once you dump half a mil into a car, you can just flip it over for the next thing.
Yeah. And a lot of the times because, not that everything is sponsored, but, like, like, specifically the GT3 stuff. When I did my first 458, I bought that 458 crashed in half. Mm-hmm. Rebuilt it for pennies on the dollar, and then got the kit on it, and then sold that [00:39:00] for a really handsome profit. Yeah. So I got to, like, make content out of it and then flip it, and that bought me my Aventador.
I bought the Aventador the next day. Yeah. Like, I just was able... So it's like, it's, it's just, I like to be able to treat them as trading cards, get my experience out of them, and then if you wanna l- really wanna get into the content side of things, once something's being done being built, no one wants to watch anymore, despite everyone being like, "Oh, you don't drive it."
It's like, I'll post a video of me driving it, and you don't wanna see it. No, we, we dealt with this at Hoonigan. We would build stuff, and then that would do a certain number of views. Right. And then you'd finally go do something with it, and you'd spend more money on going and do something with it- Yeah
'cause you're, like, renting out a track, bringing in a team. Like, you're doing this whole thing, and it would do half the views. Yeah, and- And you start going like, "Is it worth the expenditure to go actually get all that sorted, or is it better to just move on to the next project car?" And, like, unfortunately, the business side of it and the content side of it is like, no, just people want new.
They want the next thing. Yeah, and, and which is valid, and, like, every creator's probably talked about before, um, which is why the ones [00:40:00] that, like, end up working out, like, there, you know there's some builds you build, and you finish it, and you're like, "Oh, like, it's kinda ass." Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there's some where you're like, "It, it's great.
Like, it do- it doesn't ... I, I can take it anywhere." Mm. "It just works. It doesn't do anything weird." And those ones I keep, but the ones that I'm kinda like, "Mm." Yeah. The, the thought, and the theory, and the journey of it was much more fun than owning it. If someone's willing to pay X amount for it, and it can help fund the next thing- Yep the show going- Mm-hmm
I'm happily gonna take that and take whatever criticism. But also I try to not factor in what anybody else thinks as well. Yeah. Because no one... On surface level, I feel like a YouTube channel just looks like, oh, it's he's just building shit. But it's like, no, no, you don't understand how m- how much, how much a month it keeps just for the operation of...
I mean, you come from the Hoonigan side, you get it. I mean, and more like a very minute scale, but like it's very expensive, especially if you're trying to like build beyond what you currently have. Yeah. I mean, YouTube is just a difficult space, and like we can get into the whole business of this, but it's [00:41:00] like I, I don't think people understand the amount of work it takes to make money on YouTube.
Mm. Like, I think people are like, "Oh, I upload a video and then I make tons of money." And it's like, no, the actual YouTube platform itself like isn't really- Mm. I mean, I remember like people, like we would forget to like get our payments from YouTube because like the amount of money on YouTube was not what was like keeping the lights on.
Yeah, no. You know what I'm saying? I mean- Like, you'd be like... I mean, it w- it wasn't nothing, but when you look at the amount of money that was invested into an episode, we weren't making anywhere near that back. Yeah. So- I mean, YouTube's my lowest revenue stream. Yeah. By far. As it is, as it for everybody. By far.
Yeah. Um- I actually saw something, I wanted to bring this up 'cause I, I saw this la- I guess Donut launched, um, something on Tubi the other day. So they did a hi- their new HiLow series, so it launched on Tubi instead of YouTube. Mm. Right? And I was like, "Oh, that's interesting." Um, and not that, like... I, I don't really, I, I, I've never watched the show before, so I don't really know anything about the show.
'Cause as all e- anyone who works in content, we [00:42:00] don't have time to watch other people's stuff. Not really. You're like, you're barely making your own stuff. Yeah. But I jumped into the comments 'cause I was like, "I wanna see what people want." So it was like huge negativity around like, "Oh, why are you there?"
Like, this sh- this is there. And we could get into the debate of like, you probably shouldn't bring a show that was already on YouTube off YouTube. Like, people don't like that. But I will argue that like I understand the model of like, yeah, you gotta make content, like you gotta make money from it somewhere.
Well, what- So it's like, it's like YouTube is not the best home for every piece of content. There are some things that work really well on YouTube, and there are other things that just don't. Yeah. Well, I think it's also depending on like what the original like poster or the channel, like what's their goal?
Yeah. Like, if, if, if your goal is to build a show and do all these things, and if someone outside hands you a $2 million contract for two years You're gonna take the deal Yeah, 'cause it makes sense Um, yeah, and like financial security- Yeah ... and like all these [00:43:00] things. Well, I think, and one of the things I like, I, I, you know, like sometimes like you read like other people who are outside the business' perspective on something, you're like, "Oh, I never thought about it that way."
And like I don't know, not that it makes sense, but people are like, "I don't understand why my YouTube, why, why this YouTube channel or this YouTube company or YouTube brand is, is not on YouTube." And it's like I think that that is such a weird perspective 'cause like I never thought of Hoonigan as a YouTube company 'cause like it was, it was just a piece of our business.
It wasn't like the whole business, right? And I think the same thing for Donut. Like, they eventually ended up mostly there, and there was a lot of business there, but that like wasn't it. But I think maybe that's because we came from an earlier traditional media era where like if, yeah, if you're most of your business is on YouTube, like that's just like people are like, "You're h- you do YouTube.
You don't do elsewhere." I would agree with that. That's how you feel about it. Well, my perspective is I was in like the early stages of YouTube- Yeah ... like as a [00:44:00] consumer and like a creator. Yeah. And YouTube was, their motto was broadcast yourself. It was a platform that was designed for individuals to get a camera and make homemade videos.
Yeah, yeah. And that's what it was. This was before Jimmy Fallon and all these, you know- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... big networks started getting involved. Yeah. So like that was like that's the platform that I, I fell in love with. Right. And like it's free to change, and that's fine, but I remember when like Hoonigan came around and Donut, it was like there's a, y- there's a small side of you that's like, "Man, like fuck that."
"Fuck that." Well, let's get into it. Let's get into it. What- How do ... Well, it's like how do you compete with someone that has ... You know, I'm gonna throw round numbers out there. Yeah, whatever. I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you like how it felt. How am I gonna compete with someone that has $10 million a year to spend on an episode- Right
that can hire X amount of people, that can have Mr. Ken Block come in and just show his car collection- ... and do all these [00:45:00] things, and then buy all this stuff, and then do all this stuff? And I remember, you know, a, you know, I'll speak for myself, it's like, man, like how- I, I have, I have 10 grand ma- I have 10 grand in my bank account and that's- Yeah
crazy for me. How the fuck am I supposed to, how am I supposed to compete with that? Yeah. And it was frustrating a lot of times. Yeah. I, I, I get it from your point. And, and fu- and the funny thing is, is in the end, the model that you had is actually I think the only model that works on YouTube. Because you're right, that is what YouTube was built for.
And by the way, you, if you talk about automotive, it's like, yeah, it's us that's done it. But if you talk about the greater world of things, it's BuzzFeed, it's Vox, it's Awesomer. It's all these other brands- Mm-hmm ... it's Vice- Mm-hmm ... that saw YouTube as this opportunity- Mm-hmm ... and they've all pretty much failed.
Mm-hmm. Or at least failed in what people thought they were going to be. Mm-hmm. Right? So it's like the platform has definitely become this thing that's like it's not meant to build a big business on. It's meant to take one thing, lift it up, and then [00:46:00] you can use that to catapult other things, right? Like, it's a good, like, trampoline for your other businesses.
This is what y- For sure ... which is what you've done. Which is the whole reason why Casey Neistat started his, his old vlog. Right, right. Was to help with Beme or whatever it was. Right. And for us, like, Hoonigan was around since 2011. We, for us in the early days, YouTube was a place for some videos and, like, the Gymkhana videos.
Yeah, but for a while it was just Gymkhana. It was just Gymkhana early on. Exactly. Yeah. And then it turned into, like- But here's the question. Do you think Gymkhana is the type of content YouTube was built for? 'Cause I, 'cause I think like, 'cause I think it's very much a POV thing Where else would that content live?
That's the problem. Like, in the early days- But even today. Yeah, it ju- it doesn't really- I, I think so. I f- I feel like that was built for YouTube. Right. Like, but that was, I think there was this weird time, 'cause when we were looking at YouTube, [00:47:00] um, we weren't really looking at the single creator space. Like, we were sitting there looking at, at, you know, um- Ad space
well, no, we were looking at, at like MotorTrend. So we were looking at MotorTrend and their success there, and we were looking at like Roadkill and like the shows they're doing, 'cause they were massive. I mean, Roadkill was really big. And- Uh, the, the, the TV show? The Ro- the Roadkill show on YouTube. Oh, I didn't even know they had one.
Okay, so, and again, I think this is like a POV thing, right? Yeah. So like we're looking at MotorTrend and what they're doing in that space, and they were doing car reviews, they were doing the Roadkill show, um, and all of that was crushing. Like, Roadkill was doing two million views, like an episode. Mm-hmm.
Right? And, and it was this like weird in between. Like, it wasn't, it wasn't television level, but like, it was like a step up from vlogging. Like, there was like this middle zone. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like, it wouldn't have ... I don't think it would've worked on like a Discovery Channel. Mm. I see. It was- I know what you're saying.
And it felt more real, it felt more raw. Like, there was just an element to it of like [00:48:00] these feel like two guys, you know, it's like Finnegan and Freiberger going out and making this content together. So like we were looking at that stuff going, "Wow, that's like a really cool use for, for YouTube." Now realize- To rewind back, like, you know, I was at Zero to 60 Magazine.
Most of the guys from Zero to 60, or a bunch of the guys from Zero to 60 went to go do Drive. So they went to go do, like, you know, a Farish show- Mm-hmm ... um, Chris Harris on Cars. Chris Harris, yeah. Like, they were that early version of m- like, basically the YouTube, I forget what they, what they called it, where YouTube was giving people money to go make content, right?
Yeah. So, like, they got into it, and then Turk was, had, like, the network day deal. Turk. Mm-hmm. And, like, we helped them with, with a bunch of that stuff. And, like, that was sort of this weird early transition, I think, where YouTube went from the like, "Yes, upload your own home videos," to like, "Let's start making shows on YouTube."
Mm-hmm. So, like, that is always, like, how we sort of looked at the space- Well, I re- ... was like, "Hey, this is an opportunity to, like, remove the gatekeeping of television." I [00:49:00] remember when there was a time where YouTube picked, like, 10 creators and gave them a show. Do you remember that? Yeah. I remember, like, I remember, like- There-
PewDiePie had one. Yeah. I don't remember it- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah ... very well, but it was, like- Was this, was this YouTube Red? It was, like, right, maybe it was right when YouTube Red dropped. Yeah. And it was, like, Red episodes- It was, yeah ... that released like a TV show. Yeah, I remember that. And they, like, tried their hand at it, and didn't- Yeah, it didn't really work.
Yeah. So a- and I think it's funny, 'cause, like, when we came, when we were like, "Hey, we're gonna go do this," and I, and I get it from your point of view as, like, we felt like this big company. The reality to us, and the reason we started doing content, was because we were make- at this point, we had Gymkhana and Gymkhana-like content that was a piece of the business.
Yeah. Right? It wasn't really the goal, but it was a piece of the business. And we were making so much of that stuff, but we were, like, investing in equipment, investing in, in editors. So- So we're sitting there in a building that has all this stuff in it to make content with. Just to sell the Hoonigan [00:50:00] brand to more people.
Yeah. Right? Like, that was the business model. Yeah. Like, the business model was... And you know, I'll, I'll... We talked about this before the cameras turned on, but we did a Zumiez deal, right? Yeah. We're the first automotive brand in Zumiez. They don't think it's going to work. They give us a 20 door, um, test. We end up going all stores, which was 600 plus doors, in a month.
Which meant like we went from moving a little bit of product to like we had to go get a loan to, to be able to print all of the stuff, right? And, and it's like Do they give you a net 60 or they lower it for you? I think we were on net 60 on it, yeah. But like, and it was like, it was this like nightmare situation of like, okay, go, you know?
And I was like, "Okay, let's, let's go figure this out." And then they're like, "Okay, what are you gonna do to market this and to support this?" Oh, hey, please pardon this little story time interruption brought to you by my good friends at FCP Euro. A few weeks back, we kicked off a whole new show called Firing Order, [00:51:00] and now I'm searching for BMW's Late Night on Marketplace, 'cause I made a big argument that the BMW Z4 M Coupe should have been one of the top five driver's cars after 2000.
While it didn't get into the top ranking, it definitely got into my head, and now I got a little bit of an itch to scratch. First thing, of course, you do at this point is you start looking up all the problems. Sure enough, there's a bunch of garden variety issues: TPS failures, rear trailing arm bushings, engine mount failures, sticky idle control valves, problematic clutch delay valves, but the main event, rod bearing replacement and VANOS system rebuilds.
I'm pretty sure VANOS is German for VTEC. I gotta double-check. The good news is, though, I went over to FCP Euro, and not only do they sell all of the parts I listed above, they even make a full refresh kit for the VANOS. So those of you who are listening, what am I getting into with this whole VANOS issue?
Decide whether or not I really wanna get myself into a summer fling with a Z4 M Coupe, or am I just, uh, on a road to [00:52:00] heartbreak? So if you too are thinking about adding a little European flare to your Midsummer Night Fever dream, head on over to FCP Euro because they're the best at helping keep European cars on the road by supplying you with all of the parts you need for those somewhat unreliable but beautiful vehicles.
Check 'em out, FCPeuro.com. And then they're like, "Okay, what are you gonna do to market this and to support this?" And it's like- They asked you to do the marketing? Oh, we were, like, 'cause I think part of the deal was, like, they didn't know our audience. Like, there was... They, we walked in and it was like skate, surf, like- Yeah
that was their business. Yeah. They straight up said to us, "We don't understand why we should have you in the store." Like, I, I'll, I'll tell you this meeting r- we went to, we went, we had the meeting. They t- uh, Jim Bob, who was, I don't know if he's still at Zumiez, but he was, like, the head dude or the head buyer at Zumiez at the time, and he straight said to me, "The only reason I'm taking this meeting is 'cause we made a lot of money with Ken Block and DC Shoe Company."
He's like- [00:53:00] Mm ... "That's the only reason we're taking the meeting." He's like, "I don't understand why an automotive brand should be at Zumiez." And I said, "Okay, let me make the argument for you real quick." And I was like, as I was telling him, you know, like, there's a major crossover. I'm like, "If you look at our audience, our audience is wearing stuff that you buy in your store.
Like, you're, you're not seeing that there's this, like, younger group that, like, skates, snowboards, rides BMX, like, does this, but also is into cars." Mm-hmm. And this was sort of the, the sell for him. Um, long story short, he's, like, not buying it. Like, I can see he's kinda looking away, and then I mention something about people getting Hoonigan tattoos, and he just looked at me, he goes, "Bullshit."
And like, at this point, Instagram was like maybe a year or two old. Mm-hmm. And I was like, "Go on Instagram and just type in #hoonigantattoos," and he does, and a ton of tattoos show up. He just stood up. It was like a 20-person meeting. He stands up, walks out, and then like, like three other people walk out with him.
I'm just standing there like, "Okay." One of the buyers comes back in and is [00:54:00] like, "All right, we're gonna do a 20-day test or like a tw- a 20 store test." We did the test. We sold through on almost every store. Did you guys push anywhere for that, or did it just happen? Yeah, we pushed, we pushed for the 20-day test.
On what? On YouTube or Instagram? On Instagram. We were only on Instagram at that point. Like, there wa- we didn't have a basis really on YouTube. I think some stuff went up on YouTube, but like we weren't making content on YouTube. It was like, okay, like that went out. The, we, then they went all doors. So we were, at the time, the fastest brand to go all doors.
Yeah. And it was like, at first it seemed this is awesome, but it was like a blessing and a curse situation, and now it's like, okay, we have to go, we have to go support this. And like I had come out of the magazine business, and I knew that like ad sales and all this stuff was all bullshit. Like, I wasn't gonna go pay somebody to advertise, and there really was like th...
it was this weird in-between. Like, the blogs were like not really working. Like, YouTube wasn't where it is now. The magazines were dead, so it's like, okay, we're gonna make our own content. Like, we're gonna go and, and like really [00:55:00] ramp that up because we had already had the success- And that's what Gymkhana-
of, of Gymkhana. Well, Gymkhana had already existed. How many ep- how many? So, so at this point we're on Gymkhana seven, so it's the Hoonicorn 1 is like what's hitting market. But we realized like that's a one-time-a-year event. Like, we have to ramp everything else up, and that begins sort of like this bigger push.
And at first, we do it all with athletes. So it's like Ryan Tuerck, Chris Forsberg, like... But the problem is, is like their schedules are their, are like, that's their business. Like- Did you guys have funding to pay those people? No, we do... Ev- during that period, everything was like barter trade. So it was like, "You're making this video.
Like, we'll pick up the costs of making that. We'll do this. We'll trade things out. We'll pay for things." And like, it was like we have marketing budget that we can go do things together, and that was like very much like how that operated then. And then from there, we started building more and more, more and more content to the point that...
And then we were doing a bunch of white label stuff. So like, I was like directing Volkswagen [00:56:00] commercials. I was directing like Kia stuff. Like, we were like kinda just doing a bunch of other stuff because at that point, there wasn't a company in the world that wasn't asking for a Gymkhana look in their videos, like in their commercials.
Oh. Like that, like in advertising, everybody- Did that, did that pay well though? Yeah, that did well, but like it was- How much time did that take? enough, enough that we, enough that we stopped doing it. Like, it was enough that it was pulling me away at a certain point. And we had, we had had this discussion of like, do we start a whole separate business to just go chase that?
And like, at this point, it was never, being a media company was not ever what we thought Hoonigan was gonna be, right? Like, that wasn't really the goal. 'Cause w- at the beginning, the goal was the Ken Block model, which was like, a built- I, I have a question. Yeah, yeah. Go ahead. So Ken at this point had already done his rally stuff?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're well- Do you think that Hoonigan would have worked without Ken's pillar- Yeah ... of being a [00:57:00] professional driver? Yeah, 'cause the first year we never talked about Ken. So the first year we only did, we only did drifting. And we were, 'cause D- And what was sales like? 'Cause D- 'cause DC was still, DC was still, um, uh, Ken's sponsor.
So Ken was, had an apparel partner, so we couldn't be Ken's apparel partner. So DC was still there. But from first year without Ken to year two with Ken? Like, Ken was there, but, like, there was this one moment where at the end of the first year, someone po- uh, we, Ken had won something, and we posted on Facebook, 'cause, like, Instagram's not there yet.
So we post on, we post on Facebook, "Congratulations to Ken." And the comment was, was, "I don't know why you're talking about that no-talent ass clown. He has nothing to do with a brand like Hoonigan." Mm. And I screen grabbed it, and I sent it to Ken, and I said, "I think we win." Because the original thing was Ken was like, "This brand can't be- Tied to him
an extension of a licensing for me." He's like, "I could just go do my own licensing deal and just call it Ken Block." He's like, "It won't grow if it operates out of that." [00:58:00] So year one, we just invested in all of these other... Like, we were like, "We're gonna go heavy in drifting." We had, like, seven or eight people who were, who were, like, sponsored on the brand, and then we went into off-road.
So we're doing stuff like BJ Baldwin, and, like, the Recoil video, I mean, is w- is, the Recoil video- But do- ... is bigger than a lot of the Gymkhana videos ... but do you think that Ken's involvement was a major catalyst for everything Hoonigan? I mean, you can't, you can't separate it, but I don't think... There was a huge piece of Hoonigan that was, like, completely separate from it, from Ken.
Do you know what I'm saying? Like, it was two, it was two- You think it was different audiences? I think it was different audiences for sure. Yeah. We- we n- I mean, we, we built out our, like, in the business side of it, we built, like, a, like, a breakdown of, like, what our audience was. Mm-hmm. And, like, a quarter of it was, like, the Ken loyalists.
Like, they are here for Ken and Ken only. And then there's, like, the crossover Venn diagram, which is like, "I [00:59:00] like Ken, but, like, I'm actually more here for Hurt." Because, like, as that, as that audience started to grow and we started to get into that. It's- But, like, in the early days, like, we had very broken up, we had, like, the drifting audience, we had the Ken audience.
And, like, you gotta remember in the early days, drifting kids in a certain era didn't like Ken, 'cause Ken was seen as, like, they were calling him the Drift King, but he wasn't actually into drifting. He was more a rally guy. Yeah. And it was like, there was this weird, like, like, Ken was, like, not cool to, like, a lot of people in drifting.
Wait, yeah. So it's like we- we had to, like, kind of develop these separate pieces here. Okay, so I have a question. It might- Yeah, yeah. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go ... and it, it mi- it might be too personal. No, no. Go, go, go, go. Do you think if Ken was alive today, Hoonigan would still be successful? Um- In, in the terms of- I guess everything that Hoonigan is today I think that the- Apparel brand
yeah, uh, we were- E- ... already on a downward, w- there was already a downward moment before Ken [01:00:00] passed. So I- So you think that if he was here today, he still would've stepped away? I think that- Or if he's like, "I wanna revive this, I wanna keep this going, I'm gonna make sure," and he would've used his influence and his- Yeah
his power with you to- Yeah, I mean- ... create another- Like- ... big wave ... for, for me, like, and I, and I've mentioned this before, like, I was already leaving. Sure. So I was leaving before he passed. Sure. So it was like, how, how that would've continued, I think that it would've been a different version of Hoonigan.
Because Ken's focus was always the stuff Ken did. So, like, Ken was not interested in the daily transmissions of the world. Okay, I have another question. Like, that wasn't the business. I think what you would've seen was a Hoonigan that maybe focused a lot more around, like, him, his daughters, like, his son, like, as they came up.
Mm-hmm. Because if it was up to Ken, he really just wanted to do [01:01:00] rally stuff. Like, that was the focus. Like, Gymkhana was the dance he had to do so that somebody would pay him to go rally race. Okay, that was my question, was how much involvement And like straight up, like- Yeah ... what was his role responsibility with Hoonigan as far as the direction and where it was going?
He gave me the most amount of autonomy. So like for me- So he put his trust, like- Yeah, so like the, it was two- A lot of his trust was in you to steer the ship. Yeah. Yeah, so it was two businesses. So in the early days, like there was two separate businesses. Mm-hmm. Ken's team was one business, and Hoonigan was another business.
Ken's team being his race team? The race team. Which had a budget from Hoonigan Pool. That had its own budget. From where? So from his sponsorship dollars. Separate of Hoonigan entirely? Separate business. Okay. So in the early days, you have 43 Racing, which was like his- Yeah ... which was his business. Yeah. That, he ran that, and I worked on 43 [01:02:00] Racing.
Mm. And then I worked on Hoonigan. Mm-hmm. And he consulted on Hoonigan. Mm-hmm. That was early days. Because, like for him- What would he consult about? Like, I mean, he was, one, like the guy was like a marketing genius. Yeah. So it's like you'd go to him and be like, "What do you think about this as an idea?" And like he's an amazing soundboard, because he would, like we used to refer to it as bulletproofing.
It's like you just shoot holes through the idea. Like you just, you know- Yeah ... and he's really good at that. So he's sitting there with all of the experience he had from doing everything he did at DC Shoes behind, you know, 'cause he was the guy behind the guy for DC, right? Yeah. So it's like everything for Danny Way, Rob Dyrdek, all these people.
Yeah. He was the guy who was then sitting... I, I sat in that position as he then became the Rob Dyrdek, you know, kind of moment. So he was this amazing person to have for that. Mm-hmm. Right? Um, which was great. He had a really, really good eye for apparel stuff. So in the early days, he was a lot more involved in the apparel business.
As the [01:03:00] business grew and he got busier and busier, he had less and less time for that. And then eventually I had less and less time for that. Like by the end, I was very disconnected from the apparel business. Like- Mm-hmm ... and I say the end, I mean like the last couple of years. Yeah. Because the media business, like you're always just chasing what the business is and what's making the most money.
Yeah. I mean, there were times where, because Burnyard was doing well, like that's where my focus was. So like I was always like whatever the big focus is, like that's where I would go. Mm-hmm. That's what I would work on. Um, the media business was not something that Ken actually, like he, that wasn't like something he saw as a business model.
I was a media guy. I had come from magazine. So like for me, I was like, "I see this opportunity in YouTube. I see this growing." And from his point of view, it was like, "Okay, cool. If we can use that to help sell-" Other stuff, let's test it. Like, there's this joke about what happened with the media business, and it's kind of true, is there was a guy who was working, um, who was working for Hoonigan.
He [01:04:00] was, he was, uh, the interim CEO 'cause he was part of the other investor in Hoonigan, so, which was WMG, and he was there who's... He's, like, basically, like, my babysitter. Mm-hmm. Like, he was the guy who was there to make sure that, like, I didn't buy dumb shit, right? Or, like, like, forget to pay people, right?
Yeah. Um, he was never in the building. He'd show up, like, once every two weeks to come down and have a meeting, and, uh, he was supposed to become full-time CEO. Like, I was kind of excited to finally have, like, some... Like, as the business was becoming more professionalized, I was excited to have, like, somebody else come in.
Long story shorter, he's like, "Hey, I got a job. I'm gonna go work at Billabong. I'm out And I was like, "Okay, well, we're about to, like, launch this whole media thing." I'm like, "What do you think I should do?" And he's like, "I think you should just do it and not tell anyone." He's like, "And six months from now, if it's making money," he's like, "good."
He's like, "If it's not making money, this whole thing's probably over anyway." [01:05:00] He's like, "So just go." He's like, "No- it's gonna take everyone six months to figure out what the hell you're doing." Because it was literally like Ken was super busy running the race team, and, like, that was doing well, and, like, the, that piece was a good business.
And Hoonigan was sort of in this like, "Okay, we're selling apparel, but, like, it's a lot of work to sell the apparel. Is it worth the effort that's going in? There needs to be another side of this." Mm-hmm. Like, this has to grow. And, like, we hired an editor. We hired this guy Teague, who's actually still there now, and we went and we launched Daily Transmission, and, like, that changed the direction for Hoonigan.
Yeah. Like- Yeah ... and that was, like, a skunkworks project. Right. And now what I was getting at initially before we took this massive tangent, which I enjoy. I enjoy the, uh, the mic being turned on me, but, um, the, was this moment where we were sitting here going, we have a bunch of equipment that we invested in to go make...
We, like, we, when Can-Am launched the X3, we did, like, the entire program. We operated as their agency. We made all of their videos for the launch of it. We even did their [01:06:00] influencer, they didn't call it that back then, but we did, like, their influencer marketing, connected them with different people, like gave vehicles- Sick
to different people. Sick. So we were, like, living in this weird- Thanks for hitting me up, by the way. We didn't know each other back then. I'm just- We didn't know each other back then. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. You were probably s- Um- Yeah, but like- I, I, I- And it was this cool moment where, but what was realized, what, what, what happened was this moment we realized this shit was taking a lot of time, and yes, there was a good business on it, but, you know, the business of production and agency work, it's like a 20% margin space, so like- Yeah
and all of a sudden, like, we're all getting sucked into this, but trying to sell apparel, and, like, the business was not really looking good. Ken's business was working, but Ken's business was entirely related on Ken. Like, and it was like, and we were, we, we were at the point now where, 'cause, and this is to rewind a little bit, but like- Our relationship with a lot of people, like for example, BJ Baldwin, um, never was paid directly by Hoonigan.
But [01:07:00] like we designed some of his liveries, we did Recoil Two and Recoil Three for him. So like there was this trade out of like ... And like if he did- You were gonna give him promotion and- We were basically operating as his marketing arm and his like, you know, and his content arm- Yeah ... f- as a tra- as a trade of services in, in a relationship, right?
And that was the model early on, but eventually as we kept growing, we couldn't scale to do that anymore. Because now it's like, oh, we got 12 different people. We got, you know, we got Leah Pruett, and we've got like, you know- Yeah, you kinda left your sweet spot ... like, and, and now all of a sudden you're like, okay, we're drowning trying to take care of these guys, and we're not actually making direct money off of this.
Oh, and we're also doing white label work for manufacturers and other partners. And then it was like, okay, we have ... But then like we had these cameras and it was like this, it was like a literally like just like a down month and we said we're gonna make 20 episodes of this show concept that we had that was [01:08:00] originally an Instagram concept.
And we were like, "Oh, let's do it on YouTube." And I think like originally we were like each one's gonna be less than five minutes, and then it just, it just exploded into something else. So like for us, it was not like a complete plan. It was like YouTube was interesting. We knew we wanted to do something there.
We weren't really sure what it was. And then it was like, okay, and this was probably the part that you hated, was we were like, and if we're gonna do it, like let's hammer it. Let's do fucking 14 episodes a week. Which is what we got to at one point, was like there was a ... Like by like the end of year one, like I think we'd like, or like in year two, I think we like were uploading 14 episodes a week across all the channels.
Which was- That's fucked ... absolute burnout and totally fucked- It's fucked ... and it was a, was a bad idea. But in the beginning, we launched on four episodes a week. Yeah. Which meant that like we went from ... I remember the first video go- thinking, "If this hits 100,000 views, it's gonna be success-" Like, it'll be cool, and it took like a week to get, uh, to 100K [01:09:00] or two weeks to get to 100K.
And it was like, wow, that's really cool. And then it's like, okay, you're doing 200K in the first 12 hours. Yeah. Right? And it's like, it was just like sort of exploding. And, and then obviously that like changed the whole business. It changed the people that we were hiring. It changed what we could do. 100%. It, it real- Yeah
and it like, it actually created a bit of like a power shift in the business because before that, it was like the athletes had all the power. And now all of a sudden people like Hurt have the power. You know what I'm saying? Like it really flipped things upside down. Yeah. But it was fun. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was great.
Did that answer your question? Yeah. I- I mean, to, and to rewind back on like the Ken thing, it's like- Ken was the super big projects, right? Yeah, I- Like, that was the stuff that he was really interested in. He was never watching, like, the upload of Daily Transmission- For, no, for sure ... before it goes out. No.
Like, that, like, wasn't- No, no, no, no ... that wasn't the world for him. I, I don't ex- I, I didn't think that. I mean, I, I think I ask those questions because Ken is someone who very early on I identified as someone, uh, that had a model that was very successful. Yeah. [01:10:00] And I always, like, think of it internally to myself, like, there's pillars.
There's a bunch of pillars that I want to achieve, and then you look across a few different people globally who have all these pillars that have reached, let's say, I don't wanna call it some level of, of success because that's a very subjective term, but he's accomplished a lot of things that I want to accomplish.
And, uh, Ken was one of them. Uh, Mad Mike- Mm-hmm ... was one of them. Um, and, and Vaughn. And they all do their, do their things differently- Mm-hmm ... but one thing that I've identified with all three of those individuals that opened up the door to a few things that, like, I've been chasing personally, um, is some sort of...
Usually you're not taken seriously enough unless you're, like, a professional driver in something. Mm-hmm. You, you can't just be, like, an online creative- Right ... that races in a bunch of different pro am or amateur things. There is some sort of level of you're only [01:11:00] taken... It's almost like a fake... It's like when, when someone's sponsoring a channel and they're like, "Oh, this person has five million subscribers," but gets a, gets 50,000 views an episode versus someone that has, like, 200,000 subscribers- Yeah, of course
that does 200,000. It's like they, like, a lot of, like, bigger brands or opportunities- have to go through a pay wall of a professional driver of some degree. Um, and that also, you can't get an OE deal- Mm-hmm ... unless you have a professional credibility. Because that's where, that's where the current bucket was, yeah.
Y- yeah, but I think it still is today. Yeah. Um, so I just remember, like, identifying, like, where do I wanna go? Where do I see my life? What are the things I want to achieve? And the three individ- individuals that really did it well, um, was Ken, obviously, and Ken was a, a far superior of the two as far as, like, the content side of things- Yeah
and the brand of Hoonigan and what he's been able to accomplish. Yeah, I, I think the difference between... A- and I, I worked with Vaughn, I've worked with Mike. Both of those guys are amazing, and have built these- Yeah ... amazing [01:12:00] things around them. And, and I also think both of them very much looked to Ken, too, right?
Mm-hmm. Like, I mean, I, the first time I ever met Mike was with Ken, and Mike was sponsored by, you know, DC in the early days- Yeah ... you know, through New Zealand. Yeah. So, like, there was a relationship there, obviously big relationship with Ken, and Vaughn under Monster in the early days. Um, was that Ken was...
You realize, like, you were still younger than Ken was when he started racing rally. So, like- Yeah, because he started, he started- ... Ken started racing at 35. Yeah. 36. Yeah. So it's like he had spent 35 years, you know, of his life already, and he had spent, you know, 15, 20 of those building some of the most successful brands in skateboarding.
So, like, he was a really accomplished, super smart, genius level marketing guy- Yeah ... who then got into the driver's seat, and was looking at it. He looked at his driving not as a, from a driver's point of view. He looked at it from a sponsorship point of view. Like, he looked at it the way that he looked at Rob Dyrdek or- Mm-hmm
these other guys and said, like, "Why [01:13:00] aren't you doing this better?" Yeah. So it's like, I think that that was, like, a huge difference between him, where everyone else is like, "I wanna be a race car driver." Yeah. "How do I make this other thing work?" Yeah. You know? Well, I, I find myself in a very similar situation to Ken, and, like, I, I've studied a lot about his life and what he did when he started, what he...
Like, very much. Yeah. I remember very early on, he was a very big, um, role model for me. Have you read Agents of Change? I haven't. That's a good book. Okay. Yeah. That's the DC story book. Oh. It, it, it tells, like, sort of how Ken took this sort of, like, perception is reality concept and, like, shifted the whole skate market.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, but I remember, yeah, I just, I just am very fascinated of his story. Yeah. Um, and those other, uh, Mi- Mike and, and Vaughn themselves have done very impressive things in a slightly different way. Yeah. Vaughn, rather than creating the Hoonigan, created RTR- Yep ... which, you know- The current modern day [01:14:00] Shelby is Vaughn Yeah And if people don't pick that up- I mean, financially a super successful thing Yeah, I mean, and just if you look at the R2R program in Formula Drift alone, like I've said this before on a podcast, like it's incredibly wild.
Yeah. It's so cool. Yeah. Um, but I, I just, I- I'm just super intrigued, um, of the whole Hoonigan story and- Yeah ... and the rise, and how it was built, and where it was going, what your guys' intentions were. Yeah. Where were sponsor dollars acquired and, and that's where there's certain things in my life I've been like, "Okay, well if I wanna get certain sponsor things, I have to go and drive in something professionally."
Right. You have to make a decision. Not that you- Do you feel like that's where you go from here? Kind of. Yeah. Um, which in the last two years I've explored a bunch of different- Do, do you have that, do you have that want, though? Yeah. 'Cause like you're saying it as if it's like- No ... the, the route for business.
But like I think, like you have to have the passion to be like, "This is what I wanna go do." Well, I think everyone that's into cars wants to drive professionally for a living. Yeah, there's a piece of that. Like, like there, there's an absolute major, major side [01:15:00] in, um, you know, going into Formula Drift has been like a very big like on the cuff decision- Mm-hmm
that we've been dealing with internally, or I've been dealing with internally. But, um, I, you know, last year I did 30 wheel-to-wheel races- Yeah ... with a, with a partner and, um, you know, with, with the intention of like, "We wanna train you here to- Right ... get you to GT4 or NASCAR." This is before Cleetus got involved.
Yeah. But to do that, like they're like, "We don't see the money in Formula Drift." Right. Like, pick your poison. Yeah. Like, if you wanna go race somewhere professionally, um, where do you wanna go? Would you wanna go do NASCAR? 100%. Oh, really? 100%. Hmm. 100% because at a certain point, like I love doing YouTube, at a certain point, like, I, I- I, I'm just saying NASCAR as a discipline versus other stuff out there
I, let me put it this way. If you, someone gives you an option to say, "Hey, we're gonna fund you and train you to go drive in NASCAR, do you wanna take it or not?" And I would- Yeah ... a thousand, [01:16:00] because at the end of the day, like my YouTube, yeah, I build cars, but like it's really about my life. I feel if I wanted to pivot and do something different today, I could.
Mm-hmm. Whether or not half would stay or not, like I, it's not, I don't need to keep doing this. Mm-hmm. So I do it for fun, and I always promise myself the m- the day I'll stop is the day I'm like, "I'm not having fun anymore." That's why I left Hoonigan. Yeah. S- I woke up one day and I was like, "I'm, this is not fun anymore."
Yeah. And I- So, and currently I'm trying to decide, like I guess in the world of drifting and the competitive drifting and entering Formula D- Formula D is like, is it going to still be fun when- That's not a job, but like I still like when I, you know, we do every drift series and drift comp we can do west of Texas.
Yeah. And we're highly competitive, and when we lose, it's usually to a, a Pro 1 FD driver in, you know, in the comp that we're in, so, like, we know that we're there. Yeah. And I really want to go and do it, but it's, [01:17:00] it's, half the side is funding, and it's, I do look at it at a business side. It's like, okay, if I wanna go- It's also really saturated with a similar space.
Exactly, which- Like, like a similar, like, I do this, and I talk about it on these channels, and yeah. Ex- exactly, so it's just, it's a much com- it's a much more complex question, in my opinion, of do, well, do you want to do it? It's like, well, of course I wanna do it. Everyone wants to do it. Mm-hmm. But the financial backing to make it happen, and I'd be much more willing to do something if I knew it would open a door down the line, which is why I entered the, the discussion of, like, okay, well, if you wanted to get to GT4 racing- Yep
with the potential of GT3 or go into NASCAR, I was like, "I'm 100% here to entertain this conversation," which is why last year I did, yeah, 30 wheel-to-wheel races, um, and didn't film half of them. Yeah. Just went. Was it nice to not film something? Oh, it was awesome. I know. It's awesome. You, you mentioned before, I'm gonna rewind a little bit, but you were like, "I'd never..."
You're like, "Oh, I would never build a, like a Volkswagen." I bought that Volkswagen probably, like, how you probably feel about paint balling now. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Where, like, I bought it [01:18:00] when I was at Hoonigan 'cause I actually thought, like, this is a car that no one, like, the Hoonigan audience doesn't care about.
Yeah. Like, they don't care about some old, slow Volkswagen. I was wrong. There was actually a bunch of audience that did care about it, but I kinda didn't really talk about it at all at first, 'cause for me, it was more this nostalgia, was like, that was cars for me before cars were a b- were a job. Yeah. Right?
Like, it was before I worked in the magazines. Like, that was just, that was what I did when I was 17. Yeah. Was, like, wrenching on that. It was simple. It was this thing that, like, going back to the nostalgia. And even now, I try to draw a line between, like, how much of the stuff I do with my, like, Volkswagens, uh, feels like business, you know?
Like, I was telling you before, like, I do this, I do this, like, small sort of invite-only car event with Volkswagen stuff, but, like, I actually really enjoy going. Like, it's one of the few things where, like, I'm operating a business, but while I'm there, I'm like, "This is fucking great." Like, I'm not stressed.
Like, it's super cool. And as I'm on this, [01:19:00] the other side of, like, building this thing that I built, and, like, it's, like, now it's all about, like, I, I just wanna do the stuff I enjoy doing, keep it being fun, and, like, keep that balance there. Yeah. 'Cause, like, man, I super lost control of, of, of balance. Yeah. Yeah, so.
100%. You know? Uh, yeah, I mean, it's... And that's, that's, like, the million-dollar question is, like, I always tell people, I'm like, "Just find whatever it is you love in life- Yeah ... and find a way to monetize it without expectation of result." Yeah. "And you'll be the happiest man alive." But that's so much easier said done, done than find something you love.
Do you al- do you always think that's true, though? 'Cause, like- 100%. 'Cause- I'll die on that hill. Uh, uh, uh, let, let, let's, let's go- Die on that hill ... let- let's go to that hill, because my, my dad said to me when I was younger, you know, the line of, like, you know, "If you do what you love, you'll never work a day in your life," right?
Mm-hmm. That cliche. And my father was a scientist, and he really, you know, he really enjoyed and still enjoys science, right? Yeah. So it's like he enjoyed doing what he did. And then, like, I made my hobby into my life. And the [01:20:00] best, like, some of the most ex- like I, I had really great times. I don't wanna say I didn't, but I, I kind of question if sometimes if you turn your, if you do what you love, you actually work every day of your life, right?
And that might be okay, because you enjoy the work. Okay. But, like, it, it definitely makes your balance, it makes it really hard to have balance in life. I think there's a couple things to identify and back up on. You can't, you, you gotta work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You, you, you gotta do something. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Unless you wanna just chill on the side of the street. No, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever floats your boat. But you gotta work. Totally fine. You gotta work. But here's, here's how I look at it If you were to go back, if you were to go back 20 years- Yeah ... was your dream job to be working alongside whoever you would've told yourself Ken would- Yeah
have been, and created a brand and tried to grow it? And, like, was that, like, "This is the dream. All bets are... No caveat, no anything. [01:21:00] This is exactly what I wanna do"? I did exactly what I wanted to do, and I lived the dream. So- But would you say that to your... Would you- But, but back then, I'll be honest, I had a very different dream for myself back then.
What was it? Because I w- at that time, no one knew that the print industry was gonna fall apart. True. Like, I, like, I went to college- Yeah, yeah ... and, like, was like, "This is this thing I'm gonna do." So, and we didn't know that things like YouTube were gonna come out. But, like, if you just say, like, "Hey, you're gonna be a storyteller, and you wanna go tell these great stories, and you're gonna do that," I, I think I far exceeded what I ever thought I would do in my life.
So, like, how could I have any complaints? Well- Do you know what I'm saying? Like- Yeah, but, yeah, but what was your dream? Like, what was your no dream- My dream was to run my own car magazine, and I did it by 25. So, like I guess I didn't dream far enough down the line. You know what I'm saying? Like- Yeah, I guess I would- But- I would've challenged you to dream bigger than that
but, like, but back then, that, I, I think, like, it... And I go back to the gatekeeping element of it. It was like, to become the editor-in-chief of a [01:22:00] magazine in that era, it would take people 25 years to get there. Because there was always that guy above you. There was always that guy above you. Like, you look at, like, Jason Cammisa.
Are you, do you know Jason? He, he does a lot, he does really great content on Hagerty. But he's, like, a journalist. I don't actually think he ever became an EIC. Like, I don't think he ever got to the top, because, like, going through that in the traditional magazines, Motor Trend, Automobile, you know- But if you're a big fan of magazines, wouldn't your dream be, like, "I wanna create my own.
I don't wanna work for somebody else's"? Which is what, which is what I ended up doing, 'cause I built my own mag inside of another publishing company. 'Cause at that point, if you'd made a magazine on your own, you couldn't get it into newsstands. 'Cause it was like, they called it the print mafia for a reason.
'Cause, like, you had to have the ins to publishing companies to get to the newsstand and so on. So, like, I, you know, so I did do an el- element of that. But anyway, I, to get back to, like, kind of your point, it's like, yeah, I n- I dream way bigger now at f- 46 than I did at 26. What's your, what's your, what's your dream now?
[01:23:00] Um, my big dream now is to direct films, like moot real movies. Like, I got a chance to play in that world with, you know, with Sung Kang when I did the second unit work on Drifter. But, like, my real want would be to go do full-blown movies, right? And like, you know, I mean, I think the ultimate dream would be, like, what's the next, what's the next iteration of a, of a Fast and Furious or a- Mm-hmm
Bourne Identity, you know, like Bourne series or something like that. Mm-hmm. Like, I would love to make that. Like, that's like... 'Cause I really enjoy storytelling, and that mixes all the things I enjoy. Like, I really enjoy cars, but I also just enjoy storytelling. Right. Like, that's the writer part of me, right?
Right. And, and the weird thing for me, and I'm not sure, like, you know, this is the most you and I've ever spoken other than that one dinner we sat next to each other at- Mm ... Magnaflow, whatever. Um, like, I never wanted to be on content. Like, that wasn't my goal. So, like, I was very happy being the guy behind the guy.
There was an element at, at Hoonigan where it just made sense for me to step up and sort of speak as the brand guy, which is sort of that [01:24:00] era of like, you know, like know your brand and, like, live your brand kind of thing. But, like, that wasn't what I wa- I, I really enjoy directing other people, watching it all come together.
Like, my... I- i- if you look at everything I did through e- you know, through all of my career, it's like s- some of the peak moments for me are, like, directing Gymkhana films and also directing dumb shit in the parking lot for DT. Like, I just... It didn't matter if it was on a big scale or a large scale, I enjoyed that.
Yeah. I, I like- I don't mind being in front of camera. I got used to it, but it wasn't, it was never my goal was for myself to be that person. So- Yeah ... so for me to actually be able to slip back out of that, not be that anymore- So what, what are you doing today to To take a step towards that Now it's like, I mean, doing things like, I mean, the, the Hollywood business is again a new gatekeeper 'cause it's like trying to do that.
Mm-hmm. But I'm also... I, I'm going both directions. So on one side I'm trying to take all the [01:25:00] meetings, right? So it's like they... You take a general, you take a lunch, like that's the Hollywood way in. But I also realize that like my more sort of, you know, nimble, like the way that, you know, you look at things as YouTube is like, well then you just build it on your own.
Well, that's what I was gonna say. Why- So it's like at the same- You got it on YouTube ... at the same time, like I'm in the process right now of like writing a script. Like I've got like this whole thing built out that's like very much a series that could, could spin out from there. Um, and that's like, so I've got this like, I need to get more second unit directing work so that more people will be like, "Yeah, I'm gonna give you $25 million to go make this."
But then I'm also building this other thing that's like ready to go when it's there, but taking separate meetings on that. Because the interesting thing is, and not to move too much into the, the Hollywood side of it, but like there's a bunch of new filmmakers who have built stuff because like they had an audience or they had connection to an audience and they were able to sort of circumvent the traditional like model.
Well- So like that's really interesting to me ... [01:26:00] uh, then you'll probably know way more about this than I do. The guy who just made the movie Obsession- Yeah. Curry. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't he like start as like- Yeah. He, he's a good example of that. There's the mo- It was Iron, um, it was Iron Lung. Um, there, there's been a couple horror films that have come out.
There's another one called Backroom. Like the- Oh ... this is like a whole lit- Yeah ... and like horror has a... The one thing about horror that's really interesting is like it kind of has a built-in audience. Like if you're gonna make an independent film, making something in horror does really well 'cause there's just, one, like there's still a want to see theatrical horror, like the shared experience of like- Yeah
like getting like scared in a room- Yeah ... with other people still works. Um, it has more film festivals. Like there's a reason a lot of people go more into the horror space. Um, but no that, this is the new breaking of the model. Like what's happening right now with all of those films, Anora last year, which like, you know, swept in the Oscars and things like that, like these are the new films that everyone's looking at and saying, "Oh, this is the [01:27:00] different model."
Yeah. 'Cause the model before that was the $200 million film. Yeah. Which like is not sustainable, is like doesn't really work. And, and in a weird way I think that the movie industry could be right now where YouTube was in like 2012, 2013. Mm-hmm. Where like the independent creator can go meet, find an audience, connect with that audience, doesn't have to go through like the traditional model.
But my God is the traditional model holding on as tight as they can and trying not to let that happen. I think the difference was, was no one expected YouTube to do what YouTube did, so in a lot of ways they kind of just let it run. I mean, you remember back in the day when you didn't even have copyright music?
You could just put whatever you want on your channel. Pretty epic. A- and that's actually one of the things that changed, it's funny 'cause I forget about that, but like it's one of the things that changed the content style of what we did at Hoonigan, because Hurt used to just make like banger videos. So it was just like drift videos cut to like trap music.
Yeah. And it's like we couldn't do that anymore. Yeah. Because [01:28:00] the copyright stuff shifted, so it's like that move to like a vlog format was really the only way you could kind of go, because like making these like music video type drift videos, which like was really big- Yeah ... in the beginning of drifting.
Yeah. Like it w- you think about how many, it was almost like skateboarding, like every single drifter had this person. Did, did you ever watch the original Blood Masters video? Yeah, of course. Yeah. I mean, but realize in that era, Hoonigan was, was like, was friends with all the Blood Master guys. Yeah. And a lot of those guy, a lot of the cars had Hoonigan stickers on them.
Yeah. So like that was early Hoonigan era, and like we were tight with, you know- Oh, geez ... all Andy and, you know, and Matt and all those guys. Yeah. Super sick. Yeah, I go back and watch that all the time. It's just so fun. Yeah, we were just down in- It's just really, really fun ... E-town like a couple weeks ago practicing, and we were in the hotel.
We're like, "We'll throw on the old Blood Masters video." Yeah. It's so sick to watch. Yeah. But to, to go back to my original statement- I think that if you love what you're doing more than anything else in the world- [01:29:00] Mm-hmm ... you can't fail. I- Impossible to fail, because you will outwork every single person I agree.
There's, I mean, that's, I, I- It doesn't sound like you agree. Um, 'cause I think there's other pieces that come with it. Like what? Um, I think there's a lot of people who really, really love something, but they just don't have the skill set to do it. Like, I've watched other people j- or they don't have, like, they may love it, but they don't have the ambition, the drive.
Like, you are, you appear to be a very driven person. Like, you, before you said you had a vision board when you were 17. Yeah. You do realize that's not normal. What? Is it not? I don't know. I, I guess I'll, I'll backtrack a little bit. I grew up with a very traumatic childhood. I, my mom was really sick growing up, um, and I had to, my dad would take night shifts while I, so while I was at, at school he could stay home with her, and then we would swap, and she has to be fully taken care of.
Yeah. [01:30:00] Um, and she wasn't always like that. When I was, like, 12 or, I was, like, 12 or 11, um, she had a cardiac arrest. I found her in the bedroom- Got it ... and just, like, life changed from that point forward. Sorry, man. Um, but because of that, um, my mom was the breadwinner in the family, and because of that, everything changed.
So I grew up throughout very, like, pivotal years of my childhood just- being very fearful of money. Right. That we're not gonna be able to afford X, Y, and Z, this- Yeah ... this and that. So, like, I, I had the, I acknowledge that I had certain traumatic experiences that very much changed who I was as a child. It makes you grow up.
And it makes you grow up very quickly, which has its own negatives and cons, but it's also v- very strange to a lot of s- entrepreneurs or people that have a lot of traumatic experiences- Mm-hmm ... as a child, but that's a whole different discussion. Um, so I, to an unhealthy degree, worked way too much. Mm-hmm.
And outworked, and my thought process was if it was me and you on a treadmill, [01:31:00] and you and I were both running to our thing, the only reason I am stopping is because I am going to die of exhaustion. Yeah. I will beat you there. Yeah. Like, that was my mentality from 16 to 23 or 24, which is, like, in my era of daily vlogging for, like, three years- Yeah
in a row, and I was like, "I don't care, I'm going to outwork, I'm..." You know. But I only think that that was possible because there was nothing else I'd physi- there was nothing else I would rather be doing any other day, Monday to Sunday, all hours of the day. There was nothing else I would rather have done.
Yeah. Uh, you know, similar for me, so I, um, I i- i- in that feeling that, like, I just have to work harder, like, I had, like, a really, like, like, I was one of those kids that was, like, really smart but never did the work. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. And then I went to college, and I just had, like, a really fucking difficult time with it.
Mm-hmm. And, like, you know, I had two parents who were academics, so, like, failing out of college was pretty [01:32:00] rough. And, like, it was definitely one of those things where, like, my parents were like, "Well, you should, like, you know, go get your union test and, like, go become a plumber because, like, that's where, you know, like- Mm-hmm
you're obviously not gonna enter anything 'cause you didn't, you know, in the world of academia or whatever." Mm-hmm. And by, like, random chances, I got an opportunity in the magazine business, and it was like, it was something I wanted to do. I actually went to school for engineering, but, like, I had developed this like, like, "Man, I fucked up so bad," and, like, all my other friends, like, have their jobs, like, out of school.
And, like, I'm literally living, I had to move out of the city 'Cause I couldn't afford it. I'm, like, living in Long Island in, uh, in a cottage. Like, we call it the cottage. It was this, like, one-room house. It was like a casita. Uh, and like I have no power 'cause I can't pay my electric bill. Like, I'm just super broke.
And I'm like, "Yo, what the fuck? Like, how did I... Like, how did this end up here?" And at the ti- now that I'm older and, uh, like I realize, like, a lot of it was, was like I was... had, like, undiagnosed ADHD, [01:33:00] and I didn't really, like, understand how to deal with my shit. And but whatever. Once I got that opportunity at the magazines, like I, I, I had this massive imposter syndrome.
So I was like, "Yo, I can't, I can't... Like, I'm not as good as these other people." Mm-hmm. Like, I didn't graduate college. Like, I don't have this backing. I don't have this thing. So the only thing I have is more hours in the day than you do. Mm-hmm. So, like, I would work a 16-hour day every day. And unfortunately- You said earlier you didn't have ambition, but it doesn't sound like that's true.
Oh, no, no, I didn't say I didn't have ambition. I said other- You said a lot of other people didn't have ambition. I said, yeah, yeah, I said I think for other people, like I've seen people who didn't have ambition. I think it's kind of two in the same though. So for me, once though, like, once it got ignited and I was like, "I can go do this thing I wanna go do," and, like, I started working in culture mags.
I didn't start in cars. But, like, I- it became everything. Yeah. And it became, like, hyper-focus, and it was like, it was all I could do. It was all I would talk about, and I [01:34:00] wasn't afraid to work Way more than anyone else was Yeah And I wasn't afraid to put myself into, like, health risk- Yeah ... to work that level.
And I, I wanna be clear that's not like this David- No, it's, I, I- ... like Goggins, like- No ... you need to work motherfucker. I was- It's like you just love it But I will tell you that that actually, it's still something to this day that I struggle with because, like, and where this is gonna get, this is where it gets really deep, but, like, I built so much of my own identity- Mm
in my work ethic- Mm ... and in the thing I built, that when I slowed down, I fucking didn't like myself. Don't, don't, don't- So it's like- ... get me started on some therapy shit. But, but like- I'll go down a rabbit hole here ... but, like, but do you know what I'm saying? Like, and that- 100% ... is something that because the on- the first time ever, like, in my life, like, I was always the kid who was like the teachers didn't like me because I didn't do my homework, but I would still do well enough to, to, like, do, like get a B+ or a A- in the class.
So it was like my dad was always annoyed with me 'cause, like, I wouldn't do my chores. Like, I was [01:35:00] always a problem, right? And then all of a sudden I start doing this one thing really well, and people are like, "You're really good at this." And it's the first time that anyone ever said, like, "You're good at this."
And I was like, "Oh, I need that. I need that dopamine release." And then I just fucking did it, and I did it, and I did it. And what I didn't realize until years later is, like, not everybody else wanted to work a 16-hour workday. Mm-hmm. So I burned out so many people around me. Mm. Like, I burned out re- friendships, relationships.
I burned out people who I worked with, and I also, I never celebrated success. Mm. Like, it was just like, no, this is my... I mean, to your point before, and I think that this is a little bit of the dangerous side of that, is that, like, my expectation was that we were going to win. Mm-hmm. So when we won, why celebrate?
Mm-hmm. This is what we were supposed to do. Mm-hmm. It's like you don't celebrate when you wake up in the morning. Maybe you do if you're sick, but like you don't normally celebrate when you wake up. So for me it was like, "No, this is what we do. This is what we do. Like, that's what we do." And I like, [01:36:00] I, I, and I, like I have spent the past two years in therapy trying to rewind that because it built like a really toxic situation at Hoonigan because everyone else was like, "Oh, we fucking killed it."
And I'm like, "Cool. All right. Next." Like I never took the time to be like, "Oh, hey. That's great." Right? Like, I never like was like, "Oh, that's like cool. We did this." And I think that that can be this dangerous thing of like yeah, you, you set that expectation, but then like all you can do is fail. Like you can't win.
You can only fail, and then you are completely living in like a fear economy where like that's what drives you, and you're smiling 'cause I'm assuming that that's where you live right now. No. No. I- Have you separated from that? I went, um, um... So I've been in therapy for like seven or eight years now. Mm-hmm.
Um, and three years ago, um, I'd just gotten to a point, um, that, shout out Sabrina, Sabrina was like, "You gotta go here. [01:37:00] You gotta, you gotta figure your shit out." Um, uh, and it was a retreat camp, um, and it was based on, uh, you know, individuals with extreme life childhood trauma and shit. Mm-hmm. And so I went there for, went there for a week and, uh, no work, no phone, you don't know anybody, and it's men's group therapy.
Um, and everyone like was pretty fucked up. Like all very successful individuals. Yeah. And I think there is a thing there- Um, but everyone from something like, you know, just- Just really fucked up shit- Yeah ... that makes me be like, "Damn, like, d- m- maybe I shouldn't really belong here." Um, and long story short is I, I went through this whole thing and, um, did, like, 50 hours of crash course therapy.
Mm-hmm. And I've already been in therapy, but just revisiting and doing, um, not, like, psychotics, but, like, doing these exercises that help relive certain moments and take you back and aroma- th- just... [01:38:00] To people who don't really understand or aren't into this stuff- Yeah ... it probably sounds like some kooky stuff.
But, um, really learned a lot about myself, more than what I had thought, and just learned a whole set of tools and really understood that I- my value, my identity, and myself is in my success and who TJ is- Mm-hmm ... not who TJ is. Right. Um, and really allowed me to help... really allowed me to see work/life balance and what's healthy, what's unhealthy, because f- all of my beginning of my career was wildly unhealthy, but I had no one there to tell me anything different.
I- Right ... there was nothing to check me. And what would I care? Did you al- did you also feel in some ways like that was your only opportunity? Like, did you feel like, "If I don't do this, I don't know what else I'm gonna do," or- It's very interesting. My only viewpoint was I have this opportunity now- Right
and if I don't take it, I'll never know what is. Yeah. So why would I not take it? So, I, 'cause that- So I, so I dropped out of school. I just went for it. That was me, too. Yeah. But I, I also went through, like, a lot of different shit that, like, checked me super hard- Yeah ... and allowed me to, like, [01:39:00] reevaluate what's important, and also just the value of relationships with those around you- Yeah
has been a big one for me. Um, uh- Sabrina, my fiancée By the way, congratulations. Thank you. You guys got engaged December, right? Yeah, yeah. Um, she got diagnosed, uh, with brain cancer five years ago. Yeah. Um, and that was obviously an extremely difficult, um- I can't even... Yeah ... time. But it's also been the greatest thing that's ever happened to us- Mm
um, in a very weird way. W- we're both, um, followers of Christ and, and y- you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of life lessons that have come from the situation. Um, and it changed her, and was really tough, and I was smiling about the identity because, um, as a female, and she's a very beautiful woman, a lot of her identity [01:40:00] was how she looked, what she had, her perception of that.
Um, and I remember in the r- more beginning years when she got diagnosed, um, it was a hard thing because she felt like she lost, was going to lose her identity. Right. And she's very fortunate that, you know, she, she doesn't have any sort of chemo or radiation that involves hair loss or anything. There's also a lot of hormonal changes, a lot of body changes, a lot of shit that can go- Yeah
can just change, but that really fucked her up. Yeah. Um, and us going through that and her going through therapy, and then me being involved in therapy, you know, I, I, I was then positioned with the question of, well, what's my identity? What if, you know, God decides to pull YouTube from me or pull anything from me- Yeah
or someone s- or, like, what, you know, what am I left with? Do I still love who I am today? And for a long time, I didn't know how to conceptualize that at all. And I remember my therapist was [01:41:00] giving me a question, um, um, that, like, kinda, like, rocked my world, but I didn't, like, fully understand it when she first asked, asked me.
But she was like, "Scotto, like, describe yourself. Who is Scotto?" Nowadays, it's a lot different story, but it's like nowadays it's like I'm a dad who used to have a really dope life of, like, doing cool stuff, but I actually really enjoy being a dad now, you know? Like I- and it's taken me the past year or two to f- kind of find a peace with that, of like, of like, you know, like that- I find more importance in that.
Yeah. And like that, that's been the shift for me. Yeah. But I, I think initially I, I, like in a lot of ways, like my kid, I think, sort of saved me- Mm ... from like having a heart attack. Mm-hmm. Because like I was just on go, go, go, go, go. Mm-hmm. And like I was, like, really not taking care of myself. Mm-hmm. And, and then, like, you know, Ar- Ashley and I get married, we have a [01:42:00] kid, COVID hits, and like I was forced to be home and to be present.
Mm. And look, it was scary as hell- Yeah ... 'cause I had a company with all these people. I'm trying to make sure it doesn't go under, and we're just like... And it actually all worked out fine, but it was scary to go through it, right? And it was also scary to have a kid when there's this, like- Yeah ... unknown thing- Yeah
that's happening, right? Yeah. And um, and realize both my parents are scientists. Um, I've grown up around horror because of that. Mm-hmm. Like, because, you know, they, my, my, you know, my mom works in cancer. My, my dad works in, in or worked in, in blood and stuff like that, and it's like you hear all of the worst case scenarios- Yeah.
Oh, yeah ... right? Oh, yeah. And like, you know, so even when this was happening, like it was like everything was kind of like really tense, but I did get this moment to like stop- Mm-hmm ... and like have this like this is so much, this, this moment with like my son and my family just was like so much more important for work.
And, and 'cause like people, and I, I've [01:43:00] never really talked a lot about this, but like when people ask me, you know, why I left Hoonigan, it's like I think everybody wants like a single word answer, and it's like, yeah, I wasn't having fun anymore. But it's like it was also like that, like becoming a dad, like was like, "Okay, I can't do this the way I can, I used to be able to do it, and I don't wanna do it if I can't do it the way I used to be able to do it"- Yeah
was like a big shift for me. Yeah. So I, I don't know if that answers the question. It's like I guess if I was to be like, "Oh, who, what am I?" It's like I'm a creative, I'm a dad. Like I'm, you know, it's like I'm like the, like a husband obviously, but like- And I, I'm starting to, I think for the first time in my life, and it's weird to have that at 46, that I'm starting to feel really comfortable with like what I am versus- Mm-hmm
like what I feel like I need to project. Yeah. But like that has all come in the past two years, and it took me leaving this thing that was f- even though I don't have it tattooed on me, like felt like it was tattooed on me. Yeah. You know? And like for you, you [01:44:00] built you. Yeah. Right? Like it is you. It's TJ Hunt.
Mm-hmm. Like yes, it's Hunt & CO- Mm-hmm ... but it's TJ Hunt. Mm-hmm. I built a thing- Yeah ... that was like, then like I s- gave up. Yeah. Like that was like, and I was like, "Oh, that's not me anymore." Yeah. You know? Even when you were coming here today and the door was open, I was just like, I was looking at the 911 and I'm thinking like, "Am I ever gonna take the Hoonigan stickers off that car?"
You know, 'cause like in some ways, like that's what that car is. Yeah. Like the car is literally called RWB Hoonigan. Yeah. But it's like, it's like it, it's still, like even in my, even in times when I was very annoyed with the company, like it's still a part of me. Yeah. So it's like, the, it, I see it differently than, than that, you know?
Yeah, well 90% of people, you technically didn't, 90% of people usually answer the question describing themselves as like, uh, labels that they've given themselves. Like I'm a, like if you were to ask me at the time, I think I was probably like, "I'm a YouTuber." Yeah. Uh, I'm, I'm a, a, a drift. They like, you'll, you'll describe [01:45:00] yourself not with accolades, but n- usually in an indirect a- Right
accolade to some said thing. When the healthy way to answer that question is, um, I'm funny, I'm loving, um- Right ... I, I love to critically think. Yeah. Uh, you'll describe your ways in things that like you just as an individual, uh, you know, like mentally will have- Yeah ... rather than I have a YouTube, I'm a YouTuber.
Right. I, I race cars, I build cars. And that was like, and that was the one moment r- my therapist kinda stopped me and she's like, "Okay." Yeah. Like we're, you know, more or less what she was saying is you're identifying yourself, your, your, your, your self-identity is in the things that you've done, not in who you are.
Yeah. And I was like, "What the fuck? What do you mean? That is- ... that is who the fuck I am. What do you mean?" Um, and that was like, when I was able to digest that, I was like, "Hmm, maybe I am kinda fucked up. Maybe I do need to-" Yeah ... kinda figure," and- [01:46:00] Yeah, just carrying work home. That's, you know, off-camera, like I love separating, I love being able to drive to work- Yeah
to get myself ready. When the moment I come home, work, like every- YouTube, everything's left at, left at the door. I don't... There's no- Yeah ... car shit anywhere. There's no... And I love that. Yeah. So I can just be me, not TJ, in a weird way, if that makes sense. No, I, I totally get it, and I think that that is something, um, that like I, I, I don't...
Like we live in this like really interesting moment in content and media where there is this like, you know, whatever you wanna call it, parasocial relationship that like people have with people. Um, and like I think that that's like a huge weight that a lot of people don't realize when they get into it, right?
And it's like, and, and it's one of the reasons why like I want more to be less in front of camera- Mm-hmm ... [01:47:00] and, and just more making stuff. Mm-hmm. Because when I dissect what actually makes me happy, and that's like what I've had to do in like the past couple years, is like I, I like making stuff. Like I like making stuff.
I, I enjoy the process of making stuff. I like making stuff with people I like. Um, that's a big one for me. Um, I like it going out there, and I like, I like it being a success. Um, but you know, I, I, I'm trying to like kind of get back and focus more on that, where I know that for a lot of other people and a lot of conversations I've had with like other YouTubers or just like known people, it's like you get so into this like you yourself becomes what you're selling, right?
So it's like- Mm-hmm ... my views didn't do well. It's me. Mm. Especially when it's like your face on the thumbnail, and it's like it c- it starts to become sort of personal for you. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. And, and I think that there's a real dangerous- Mm ... like piece of that- Mm-hmm ... that like people don't talk about, you know?
Fuck yeah. Absolutely. And you know, and like you were [01:48:00] one of the long, you're one of the longest lasting people in the space, right? Like you're still doing this. Mm-hmm. There's a lot of people who flashed, were really big for a year or two, gone. There's some people who were there early on, and they didn't make it past sort of the next step.
Mm-hmm. And there will be new people who come out tomorrow that will We'll go and do whatever. Um, as I get older, it's like, I also, like, there's just, like, less of a want to, to do some of that stuff. But then, I don't know, I also, I also do enjoy some of it. So, like, I, I live in this weird, like, it's a hard balance.
But I, I got to... I, there was definitely a moment where, like, I s- didn't wanna make my own... I didn't wanna make content with me in it anymore at Hoonigan. And, like, a lot of people were like, "Oh," like, "Scotto doesn't finish any of his cars." And it's like, I, I just, it was, like, too stressful for me to, like, do a lot of that stuff.
Yeah. Like, I, I didn't want the camera on anymore. Yeah. Like, I, I, I, I wanted to focus on the other stuff that I was doing. I wanted to make the content for other people, you know? Yeah. So. Well, I think also, too, a, what a, what a lot of that drives people to come and [01:49:00] go is if they f- truly have a business structure that works.
Yeah, yeah. That I don't think people give credit, as much as it's due, um, to the channels that have been there and have lasted, and how their ecosystem actually functions. Yeah. And at a certain point, you have to decide how big you wanna get, and there's a sweet spot- Mm-hmm ... which is a very hard thing to learn and to figure out and to truly understand.
Um, and also, too, with just working with different brands, also of- What, what do you think your sweet spot is? Um, I don't think I'm there yet. Um, what as far as like revenue or as far as like- I, I think like sort of the balance between it all. 'Cause like- I think before it gets too corporate ... for, for, for me looking from the outside, right, here's what I, here's what I see.
Yeah, show it... Tell me what you see. T- here- here's what I see. Let's, let's see it. Like you built, you built a brand of yourself on YouTube, right? You built a viewership there. That's still important. Very important. But my guess is is that [01:50:00] that's no longer the major revenue driver. So you've got other companies, you obviously have the merch, and now obviously that drives all of that.
And you basically have created sort of like a, it's like the human centipede of businesses where they all fucking feed off each other. So it's like you have to do the YouTube part so it can shit in the mouth of the other business to shit in the mouth of the next business. And I think that like, 'cause, 'cause this w- this I think is what works really well.
And realize like this is the... You gonna spit your water out? No, down, down. I just visualized it like exactly. I just saw the movie in my mind. We're, we're, we're like, we're like all of those pieces- That's a really good way to put it. Wow ... need each other to work. No one of them sort of operates on its own.
You couldn't go back to just doing YouTube, and you could probably just go do one of the others, but it wouldn't be as successful without the others. So you've created this like network, and at a certain point that network can't get too big because it, it, they don't all [01:51:00] scale at the same speed, right? And I, and I say this 'cause like Hoonigan was a very different business than what you, Adam, Clete- Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh
like, like it's, it was just different. Like we also like we had a real merchandise company that was like operating as a, as that business- Mm-hmm ... and was, was keeping the lights on to begin with. Content then became a bonus to it. Ken and the racing program was like a whole other thing that was like completely different numbers.
Mm-hmm. Like the numbers on that side were like astronomical compared to what we were seeing in- Mm-hmm ... like traditional YouTube space. Um, and then there was just all these other pieces, and then it was like there was a bit of like we could just do whatever we want, make RC cars. Mm-hmm. Like it, it just kept kind of like, do video games.
Mm-hmm. Like you know, that we just kinda kept building off of that brand. YouTube definitely was the feeder for that though. Mm-hmm. But not until seven years in. Mm-hmm. Like we'd already built a business- Mm-hmm ... for seven years. Yeah, it's kind of backwards. We did it- Well, as opposed to traditional now. Yeah, well, like, like now it's like you build on YouTube, you grow that, and you go- Yeah
you go the other way. Yeah. [01:52:00] And, and I'm not... And like I, I, I wanna rewind a little bit to your, to the like if Ken was still here- Do you think the business, do you think Hoonigan would still be there? I wonder if, I, I think it's more if you rewind a little bit back more and it's like had we had not have sold the company, because at a certain point- Yes
so at a certain point, once you sell a company, you no longer have control. Yeah. And I, and I, I don't wanna get too into some of this stuff, but like it had definitely gotten to a point where both Ken and I felt like we couldn't change certain things. Yeah. Right? And I think the difference, well, I think if Ken, Ken definitely had way more power and leverage than I did inside the building.
So like, yes, there was a s- I think it would've extended the execution, but I don't think it would have, like, we were already... I mean, to, to give you an idea, like Hurt left. Hurt had already decided to leave before [01:53:00] Ken passed away. Yeah. So like it was already fracturing. But you guys, but the whole, uh, uh- It was already fracturing.
But you guys, you guys built Hoonigan to sell it. We built Hoonigan to sell it. It was, it was, it was, it was- Which is one thing that I really fucking hated seeing ... it was the, it was the plan from day one. Exactly. Yeah. And that was the, uh, when everyone When it sold- Mm-hmm ... I, I, uh, I just remember the internet- What did you hate seeing?
The- People being like, "Ken, you know, doesn't want, doesn't want... This isn't what Hoonigan is," and all. Right, right, right. There was always- Yeah ... just people making videos that were getting crazy traction. I'm like, "Do you guys not realize, like, that was- Yeah, it was always the plan ... probably most definitely the plan- I mean, not, not o-
way before, with or without Ken's involvement." Not only was it the plan, but it took six years longer than we thought- Yeah ... it was gonna take. Yeah, so- Because YouTube gave us a different trajectory. Yeah, which that completely changes it, changes, you know, the ecosystem of the whole entire brand, um, if you're building something to sell it.
Yeah. Um, [01:54:00] but that's a different discussion. But- So I, like, I, I look at it as, like, there was, like, these three different chapters. Chapter one was, like, was, like, Hoonigan the skateboard brand for car guys. Yeah. Right? And that was, like, 2010 to about '17. And Takeover Cars. So, but there was no s- You, you, you g- you guys are big on Takeover Cars
but we, there was no such thing when we started this. No, I know. I'm just talking shit. I fucking hate Takeovers. I'm just, I'm just talking shit. But I know what you're saying. Um, but in the early days, that wasn't true. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Actually, what was really weird was we were mostly big on trucks. Yeah.
You guys were- Which was weird, 'cause it wasn't really what we were doing. Dude, you still see Hoonigan- I still, I still- ... on the back of every fucking car today. I'm like- I, T- Tacomas, ri- like, every- Crazy ... crazy. Crazy. Crazy. It's a movement. So, so, um, that was this thing. That was the first version of it, and it was, like, more underground.
You kinda had to know what it was. Mm-hmm. Like, you may have seen the Gymkhana films. Like, that was the only kind of the big moment, but otherwise, it was like a if-you-know-you-know brand, right? And that was the intention. Mm. The [01:55:00] intention was like, how do you build a DC Shoes, you know, a World Industries? Like, how, how do you create something like that for, for that?
The next chapter was YouTube Which was like, not com- we didn't really know that it was gonna go that way. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Like, I think we all knew, hey, to your point, we knew that if we worked at it, it would be successful. Right. Right? And we did that. Right. We were like, we went in, and the minute we went in we're like, "We're running," right?
But then there was this third chapter that was never really figured out, and the third chapter was honestly leaving YouTube in a, in a world where, like, Ken and I had aspirations to, like, do more stuff with streaming and, like, 'cause we had done the TV show with Amazon File, you know, the Amazon, um- Yeah
Gymkhana Files. We wanted to do stuff in theatrical. Uh, yeah. Like, this was already stuff where it was like, "Oh, it'd be really cool to do that." Yeah. We also wanted to get, like, way bigger into the event space. Um, and Gymkhana was a sport that we wanted to elevate, like FD. Mm-hmm. So, like, it, for us it was always like, what's the next [01:56:00] chapter, what's the next chapter, what's the next chapter?
So what wa- I think when you look at Hoonigan from the outside, there's, like, there was this peak moment from, from YouTube, and then YouTube started to track out, and it was like, okay, what's the next thing? Because I always looked at Hoonigan as, like, the automotive Jackass. Like, it's not here for a long time.
It's here for a good time. Like, th- like, that group was going to exist for a certain period of time. The minute people start having kids, buying houses, life changes, and it's like they're not as interested in building a $500 shit car, and, like, that's what our audience was built around, you know? So, like, that was going to happen.
Like, people mature, that shifts, that changes. So for us, it was all about what was next. But, but- It was all about, like, what, where we were gonna go and where the next thing was, and we were actually excited about the relationship that we initially thought we would have in that deal because w- it was gonna give us access to, like, bigger things, and go do bigger...
Like, w- we were in the idea of, like, you [01:57:00] know, bigger festivals and, like, it was always like, what's next, what's next? Like, I was never- Just doesn't- ... satiated with the current- ... seem sustainable- ... kind of thing ... on how fast- It's not ... you guys were going. It's, it's not, and that's the problem is, like, when you get off of it, you're like, "Yeah, this was, like, out of control."
Like, we were just, like, brick on the fucking pedal, just fucking go. And at a certain point it was, I, I think, like, at a certain point, like, no matter what it was gonna implode. Yeah. Like, I wouldn't... Ugh I would do it the exact same way again 'cause it was f- like, there was parts of it that were really fun, and I'm the kind of person who always wants a new experience.
Like, I always wanna go do something new. So it's like, it was like, like if you look at, like, not the, a business, but you look at my CV of what I got to do at Hoonigan, it was a masterclass in everything. Like, I got to be involved in so much different stuff. Like, I, I, I understand apparel business in a way that, like, I never thought I would.
Mm-hmm. I understand retail. I [01:58:00] understand, like, obviously content stuff, but, like, on all different spectrums. Like, I understand how to run a race program. I understand how to sell sponsorship. Like, I understand live events. I understand, like, I understand how to get insurance for a motorsports event. Mm-hmm.
Which is, like, not easy. Mm-hmm. Like, like, you learn all these things, and I, I'm, I'm sure that it's the same for you. Mm-hmm. That opportunity was what was exciting for me. God, I'd be so curious to know how much you guys got in sponsor dollars for one Gymkhana video. I'll tell you later. On, uh, that I- It varied.
It varied, but they were, they would be pretty big, yeah. I know. So, well, especially towards the end. Yeah, I know. Yeah, especially, like, when the Audi deal came on and stuff like that. Sick. Yeah. Yeah. It was sick. But, and, like, that was amazing. Yeah. And, like, being able to, like, close down, like, a city and just- Mm-hmm
I remember standing in the middle of fucking the Vegas Strip and being like, "We shut this down." I, weird random side story, uh, I met you, um uh, Gymkhana [01:59:00] Seven right down by Art District. I remember that, yeah. Um, Josh Kalis brought me down. Yep, yep, I remember that. And I remember standing there. I was filming something, and I think you're in the background of one of my clips, and I was like, "That's Brian Scotto over there."
And, and then I just ran... Then I met Ken there and spoke, like, two words to him, and I was like, "Holy shit." Um, and then years later, I did a SEMA meet and greet with him, uh, with Toyo, and I was standing with Ken doing the thing, and I was like, "This is fucking cool." That's a cool moment, right? Like, you go- Yeah, we talked.
He's like, "So what do you, what do you do?" And I'm like, "Uh," I, I was like, "I, yeah, I don't know." The, the thing everyone has to understand about Ken is he was a driver- Yeah, yeah ... first. Yeah. Like, he became a car guy- Yeah ... because it was adjacent to being a driver. Yeah. Like, the first, the first thing I ever did with him was Gumball, um, was Gumball 3000, and uh, we were, like, driving, and like, we had never met each other before, and we're like, you know, we're just in a car for fucking hours at like- Mm-hmm
130 miles an hour, [02:00:00] and Lucy had fallen asleep in the back seat, and it's, like, just me and him sitting there, and he's like, "Can I ask you a question?" I was like, "Sure." He's like, "How does, like, a turbo work?" At this point, he was, like, already on his way to be rookie of the year. He races- Wow ... a Subaru rally car.
Yeah. Like, he is about to get, like, a Subaru deal for next year. Yeah. And he, and I, but I thought he was joking. Like, I thought he was testing me. Mm-hmm. So I was like, "What?" Because, like, as a kid who grew up working on cars, like, this felt... But it's like he didn't go the same path as we did. Yeah. Like, he was always interested in cars, but he was building and, like, completely changing the world of action sports.
He didn't have time to do that, and then he had this opport- he, he knew rally cars were cool. He wanted to go be a driver, but like, he didn't fully understand how it worked. He had, like, a basic com- co- you know, idea of it. Yeah. And I remember I went home, and realize at this point, like, no one knows who Ken is.
Like, the, the, I, like, at that point, like, he hasn't done Gymkhana [02:01:00] yet. He hasn't done Stunt Junkies. Like, he's not a guy yet, right? He's just kind of doing well in Rally America. small series. And I went home, and then there was just this thing where like, you know, you meet somebody and you're like, "This guy."
Yeah. And by the way, I went on that trip to do a story on Rob Dyrdek, not on Ken. Oh. And I come home, and I fucking opened up my, my, 'cause, you know, as a writer, I open up and I was like, "Chapter one: the Ken Block story." And I wrote the story of, like, me explaining to him how to use a turbo. And I was like, I want this written because I think this dude's gonna do something.
Yeah. And I wanna be able to go back to this moment 15 years later and remember, like, kind of like where this started, you know? And then he ended up becoming, like, a bonafide car guy, but, like, he was always a driver first. Yeah. Like, he ... If, if it wasn't fun to drive, he wasn't interested in it. Like, he didn't- That's pretty, pretty sick
he, he didn't care. Like, that was where his focus was. His focus was, his number one focus was being a, was being that. And then [02:02:00] his number two focus was, like, being creative. Like, he really enjoyed being better at that than other people. Yeah. Like, he really cared about that. Like, he wanted to have a different look, a style.
Like, that was just, like, the super important thing, you know? And, and that I, you know- You go back to like, uh, uh, 'cause honestly like we could spend an entire podcast talking about like what would have happened if Ken was still here. Mm-hmm. And I, and I think that there was an element of ... I think there's people who wanna believe like, you know, if, if Ken didn't pass, like Hoon- everything would still be fine.
Like I, I unfortunately I don't think that would be the truth. Mm-hmm. Like there was already massive fractures. Like Hert was leaving and I was leaving. Like that was going to happen, right? So that probably meant everyone else would have left as well. I think that there would have been a Hoonigan that would have carried on as the Ken Block version of Hoonigan, but I think the YouTube version of Hoonigan- Well, Hoonigan still exists today
that, that you, that, that you knew. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's, and, and not saying that like it's dead, but I'm saying like that era, right? And yeah, no, for years. [02:03:00] Like, like, and actually a bunch of the guys are doing stuff with like, so like Suppy's doing a project with them right now. Zac's doing a project with them right now.
Like Gary and Micah are still there. Yeah. Um, you know, they've asked, they've asked me to do something with them this summer, which I was like, "Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm down." Like there's, there's no lo- there's not like, it's not like it was really even bad blood. Like I, I'm mature enough to be like businesses are businesses.
Yeah. And sometimes businesses make bad decisions, and unfortunately we were attached to that. And like that happened, right? And the, at the end of the day, it's like it is what it is. I made the decision to sell the company. Well, I mean me with partners. Um, you know, if it was my own company, I probably wouldn't have ever sold it because I, I enjoyed working at it, but like- I have no doubt
but when you build something to sell it, that's the expect- like everyone works for cheap or free- Yeah. Well, yeah ... to a certain point. Like I was, I was w- I was like one of the lowest paid people at the company for a long time because like I was investing in it, you know? If you're anything like me, whether or not you have a real shop space [02:04:00] or a lift at your disposal, you still end up working on the floor.
So when I saw Vyper's new Mini Creeper, I knew it best suited my idiotic and often anti-ergonomic way of working on cars. It can be configured both low or slammed. And while Vyper likely designed this for detailers, it's great for those of us who will assemble a brake caliper on a cold, hard floor instead of at the convenient height of a workbench.
Check out this great Mini Creeper and many more shop items at vyperindustrial.com. That's Vyper with a Y. The adjustable wrench is a shameful little tool, right? While super convenient, it's definitely a jack of all sizes and a master of none. You wouldn't catch me dead using an adjustable on camera for fear of comment section scorn.
Thankfully, Wera Tools created the Joker self-setting adjustable wrench, which as you apply pressure tightens down the German engineered jaws to prevent rounding off. Finally, thanks to the Joker, we can use adjustable wrenches free of shame in the light of day without the [02:05:00] stigma of that oh so convenient but not so precise multi-tool.
Come out of the shadows and proudly buy a Joker adjustable wrench at weratools.com. Because like I was investing in it, you know? What were your thoughts on Wheel Pros changing their name to Hoonigan? Um I thought it was such a weird move. Yeah. I thought it was suicide. I, I, I can't get into all of the details as to why it happened, 'cause I think I still have an n- a, a- Uh-huh
an NDA- Uh-huh ... somewhere. But- Well, I'll go on the record But- That was a whack move. Um. I'm holding back questions- ... I know you can't answer, so I'm not even throwing them your way. Um, this is like I'm on your podcast. I- That's why I like it ... I just- No, no, I like the back and forth. This is, this to me is what I want this show to be, which is like...
I mean, granted, we didn't really talk much about cars, but I enjoy, I enjoy the back and forth, 'cause, like, that's a conversation. I find it weird when you just ask people questions. Yeah. I mean, I just, I just have, there's just so much interesting stuff to, to talk about. Mm-hmm. And you were such a, like, key player in so much of [02:06:00] automotive culture when it comes to the internet.
Like, there's just so much- Yeah, you hate, yeah, you hated us 'cause we came to YouTube. Well, I didn't like hate you guys- ... but I was like, 'cause I, I, like, I, I didn't hate you guy- I was just like, "Fuck," like, uh, how, like... It just sucks to see you guys get this much traction. Yeah. And it's so easy to be on our side and be like, "Well, they have all the money in the world, so of course they can."
So, so can I tell you something that's really funny there? You'd be like, "We didn't have any money." We definitely probably had a lot less money than you thought. I mean, you came to, I mean, c- comparatively to the number of employees we had. Okay, but you guys had a building. This, like- I know ... 30,000 square foot, and you had your own little like- It was 18, but yeah.
You had your own little like- The next building was 42, but yeah ... you had your spot. I mean- I know ... yeah, like- But that was all, that was all very intentional ... and you had all the help. You had 40- Of course ... 40 dudes- But- ... to help build this thing ... but in some, but it was a double-edged sword because we could, it was hard for us to scale once we were that, that big.
For, I, I mean, for sure. For s- [02:07:00] Nimble, nimble is definitely better. I've said it before, 15 people is the sweet spot. Yeah, I mean, my, my perspective has changed much more now than what it was then, but I remember just being like me and talking to a couple other guys- Yeah ... that were like me. I'm like, "Well, now what the fuck do we do?"
Yeah. Like, how do we compete with that? And then, you know- But I don't think we ever saw ourselves as competing with you guys. Like, 'cause w- I'll tell you this, like- No, it's just being salty and whiny on our perspective, being like, "Damn," like, "I wanna be able to do that, but I, I, there's no way and there's no way in hell I'm doing that."
Yeah. "There's no way I'm gonna ever get there." B- and now granted back, I'd go back to him and just be like, "Trust me, you don't wanna be there. Keep doing you." Yeah. Like, a lot of my perspective and, and viewpoint has changed- Yeah ... in this current day. But I just remember at the time being like, Donut Media and- Mm-hmm
Hoonigan, like, these guys got- Yeah ... like TV show production stuff. Like, this isn't even YouTube anymore. This is just like- No, I get it ... making a TV show and putting it on the internet. I get it. I'll tell you from our perspective, 'cause I think it, I think it'd be interesting to hear. One, we had tried to go do a TV show.
Like, that was actually the [02:08:00] direction we went. We went, we met with Netflix in the early days of Netflix. Oh. Like, we, I mean, I walked into Netflix with Chris Harris and was like, "I wanna do a show with this guy," and they were like, "Yeah, that's not gonna work." And then he went and did a show with Top Gear.
Like, because they, just none of the streamers, like, understood it. We went, we pitched Discovery. Like, we went to all of them, and either- Hmm ... they said no, or they were like, "That's great, but here's the show we wanna do." Yeah. Like, so here's the concept. Like, I did a show at Discovery Channel that actually we filmed it right before DT came out, and then it launched during DT and failed.
Right? So we did a show, and at some point the showrunner said to me, "Okay, so here's the concept. You and ACP..." I don't know if you know ACP. He's a rally car driver. Um, he's like, "You and ACP, you run a business where, like, you have to, like, restore these old cars to, like, do cool stunts." And I'm like, "Yeah, but that's not the business I run."
And they're like, "Yeah, but no one knows that." I'm like, "We have, like, [02:09:00] two million followers on Instagram. Like, somebody, you know, like, knows," and that was... We were a bit smaller. I'm like, "People are kind of aware of what we do. Like, my business partner is Ken Block. Like, this is, like, I... That's my business partner, not ACP."
Um, they're like, "Yeah, no, but for the sh- for the show, like, that's just what it's gonna be." And I was like, "No, no, it cannot be that." Yeah. "Like, you don't understand." And we were struggling so much with that, that every time we'd go in, 'cause people wanted to talk to us. They're like, "Oh, you guys are the Gymkhana guys.
Oh, like, Hoonigan's a pretty big brand. Like, I see it all, I see it on every truck in San Diego." Yeah. Like, you know, like, people wanted to do something with it, but then the minute we got in the room we didn't have control. So I saw YouTube as a place that gave us control. Yeah. 'Cause we had already had success with it with Gymkhana, so we knew what we could do there.
I mean, the first Gymkhana went up in 2008, but we even had success with it before that because we had done Stunt Junkies with Discovery Channel, but then we cut the footage and uploaded it to, like, a fake account on YouTube, and it did more views there than it probably ever did on Discovery, right? Um, but so for [02:10:00] us, we were looking at MotorTrend as, like, the...
They were, like, the big guy on the block, and they were so much bigger than us, dude. Like, they did have those budgets, and they had those cameras, and they had the big building, and they had this crazy studio that was air-conditioned. Hoonigan never had air-conditioning through all of its days. And it's like th- you know, they seemed like the guys we were going after, and they were already there and established.
Like, for us, like, they were there, and, like, we saw them as the people to go take down- Mm ... right, to go, to go to them. And, you know, that was... And I think we saw Donut as a peer, but they didn't make content like us. Now they, now it's similar. Yeah. But at the time, they were doing explainer. Yeah. So it was like, it was just a different space for us.
Yeah. And for me, I just loved the, like, I just wanted to go make a bunch of different stuff, and we called... Like, I refer to Daily Transmission still to this day as, like, it was Jay Leno's cars or Jay Leno, you know, but for s- like, for dirt bags. Yeah. Like, we'd have you on. We'd have, like, like- Yeah ... it was like we wanted to build the [02:11:00] hub for everybody else.
Yeah. Like, that was the way we saw it, was like, "I want everybody to come on our show and do stuff with us." And, and, and honestly, if I was s- if there was any one style or, like, thing that we were stealing, like, I wasn't looking at other automotive. I was looking at the Barracks. Mm-hmm. Like, the Barracks was the model for us.
Mm. Interesting. And remember, old Hoonigan, the original Hoonigan in downtown LA was next to the Barracks. Oh. And I was f- and I was friends with those guys. So, like, I would, like, that was a world where, like, I was looking what they were doing and going, "How do we do this in automotive?" Like, that was a huge inspiration for me, was, was everything there.
Yeah, that was like a, a big part of, uh... Yeah, and Steve Berra was like a buddy of mine at that point, 'cause like I got to work with- He was obviously friends with Ken. Me and him worked on a project, and we kind of clicked. So it was like, I- That's super cool ... they're doing this crazy thing at Barrack. So for me, my thing was like, how do we get a space?
Right. The difference was, was I didn't think my own employees were gonna be the things doing something in the [02:12:00] space. I thought it was gonna be the Chris Forsbergs, the Ryan Turks, the Vaughn Gittins. I was trying to build a skate park for cars, and instead it ended up becoming- Yeah ... you know, our, our cast of- You got your own characters-
misfits. Yeah ... that really drove the show. That, that was, I think, the part that was the surprise. Damn. Yeah. That's interesting. So I, I tell you that because we wanted to go do this for... We wanted to go do it in the real world of Hollywood or whatever. Yeah. I'm happy we didn't in the end- Yeah ... 'cause it would've gone for one season and been canceled.
But YouTube was like, was like no one else would have us. So it was like YouTube was like this perfect home for us. Does that make sense? Yeah, no. You- Does that change your perspective on it all? I mean, I mean, yeah, I- I... And I get it. Yeah. Like I get it, 'cause you're sitting there going, "These guys have so much," 'cause everyone always feels that way when you see the next person- For sure
do something who's bigger, and you're like, "Oh, this is coming, and they're doing this." Yeah. Yeah, no, it definitely changes my perspective. I mean, it's really cool to learn about your angle and approach and what was like your inspiration, how you took that and molded that. I like find that like super interesting.[02:13:00]
And also like understanding like what was the ultimate motive behind it. Like what was the goal for Hoonigan? Where were you trying to get it to go? What, you know- Yeah ... and then what got picked up along the way, what side projects like Burn Yard- Yeah ... and different things that, you know, have been casted throughout the motion of trying to just sell.
Yeah. Well, a- I just find that so interesting ... look, and, and at a certain point, like I think there was this like dangerous mix of- I don't, not until the very end, I was never motivated to sell. Wasn't, I never thought about the selling. Like it w- I, I was happy to have a job that let me do this cool shit.
Mm-hmm. Um, and that's probably one of the reasons why it took so long to sell, 'cause like I wasn't focusing on it. And eventually they brought in people to make us focus. Yeah. But it was this dangerous mix of something that wanted to have multiple verticals, 'cause that's the right business, and a kid who has ADHD that's like, "Ooh, new, shiny, let's do this, let's do this."
Yeah. So like I was jumping from thing to thing, and where normally, like somebody would try to stop [02:14:00] me from doing that, they were like, "Nah, yeah, let's, let's, let, let him cook." Like, like on all these different things. That's cool. So that was the huge opportunity for me. It burned me out in the end- Yeah ... but like, and not everything, not everything worked, but we had a lot of things that were like were, were really successful and a lot of fun, you know?
Um, and that's also why like we were always constantly doing new shows. It was always like, oh, we did DT, ah, okay, now we're doing this, now we're doing this- Yeah ... now we're doing this, now we're doing this. And that's because like my brain was still like a magazine guy who was like trying to create new sections, new features.
It wasn't the, it wasn't always that things weren't working. Sometimes I was just bored. Yeah. And it was like, okay, I wanna do something different. Yeah. Which I think was sh- I think it was stressful for my team some ways, 'cause like you could see, like when shows worked, they were happy to let them go. Like, I would have done This vs That, like for like three seasons and wanted to go do something else.
But it was so successful and it was so easy to make- Yeah ... that like it just kept going, right? Yeah. Where for me it was like I always wanted that [02:15:00] next thing. Um, and that's I think back to you, like what you were saying when I asked you before, like do you like making this content that the audience doesn't?
I don't know if I was always concerned about the audience. I was like very concerned about like I wanna try this and like it'd be cool to try it, right? Like, that was the part for me. Like I'm ... For me, formats is like how LZ looks at engines. Mm-hmm. Where it's like he's completely motivated by like- Yeah
like what engine can go- Yeah ... do whatever. Yeah. And that's like his weird thing that he gets so into. For me it was like, ooh, can we do a different format? Like, we did this show called Scumbag Labs which was like MythBusters for cars, you know? Yeah. And like, but you know, we did, I don't know, 24 episodes and then we were onto the next thing, you know?
In hindsight it built a really fractured audience. Like, it probably wasn't the best thing to do from a business side, but it also made the company feel bigger in a way. 'Cause like we took the Venn diagram model- Mm-hmm ... right? Where it's like- Mm-hmm ... I want a little bit of every audience. Yeah. Which we had.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, like the brand's known well because what it means to [02:16:00] you it means something completely different to someone else. Valid. Right? 100%. Yeah. Like, that was... And like to the point you made and I said before, to the kid who was like, "I don't understand why Ken Block's a part of this"- Mm-hmm
when Ken Block was an owner- Everyone kind of has their own- ... and a driver. Everyone had the... It was like the, what's the, uh- Their own perception ... four, the four blind men and the elephant. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Every- Like, it was like that model of Hoonigan, is like we lived it, we lived small in a lot of places. So we were still doing grassroots stuff in different places even though you're like, they seem really big.
But we were like, we tried to be like at a certain level, and that was when it was best. It wasn't always that way, but that was, that was fun, so. Anyway, thanks for, thanks for, uh, bring- having me on the show and bringing me down the memory lane of- ... of these things. Hope we covered all the topics today. Yeah, yeah.
And really got, answered all the questions. Well, I, I, I, we- we're- we're- we're like two and a half hours in, but I, I, I do have a couple questions I have a couple questions for you. Go, go back to the beginning on that. Mm-hmm. Um, one, like, I, a, a couple things we bounced off of pretty quickly is, like, [02:17:00] your next...
Like, if your next thing is as a race car driver- Mm ... do you think you can maintain the rest of this? 'Cause, like, having worked for race car drivers or worked with race car drivers, like, especially, a- a- and I don't, and I... This isn't to take anything out of drifting- Mm-hmm ... but, like, drifting is a lot less rounds, a l- like- Yeah, so- A, a lot less time involved in terms of, like- For sure
for, compared to, especially compared to NASCAR. I mean, NASCAR is like the- Yeah ... like, I'm curious to see, like, I keep s- I... It's a question I have is, like, will Cleetus continue to do all things Cleetus, or was this a, was this the stepping stone to get Cleetus to where he needs to be? I, I, I, I don't know. I, I mean, I, I know Garrett, but, like, I haven't asked him that question.
Mm-hmm. But it's an interesting one. Yeah. You know? I mean, I bet he'll be very successful in it. I think he's gonna be super successful. I- The question is, is will he still be able to do all the th- things that make Cleetus Cleetus to his fans and to his audience today? I mean, I think it's, [02:18:00] like, making a decision, like, do you want to forget about everything and dive in and be the best person who ever did it?
Like, that's a completely different- Yeah ... that's a completely different, like, mindset. Um, I love drifting, and we're drifting now more than we ever have. And in the last, like, two years we've built a whole new car, did a whole new race program around it. Yeah. Um, and I've w- dumped, I mean, hundreds of thousands of dollars every year just in doing it.
Um, and the, the point that we're left on right now is, like, there's nowhere else to go oth- other than FD. And I don't really know if I want to, for a few different reasons, but, um, I know that I love competing more than anything else, and I, th- that level of, I don't really enjoy grassroots driving that much.
I don't enjoy jam events. I don't enjoy any of that. I really just enjoy, like, being there with a purpose to try to, like, practice with a certain reason. Um, like, I, I rent out, um, Orange Show Speedway two or three times a month- Mm ... and invite out Odi or Dylan Hughes- Yep ... or any other pro [02:19:00] driver, and it's just me and them, and all we do is run laps.
And I'm like, "Hey, I'll pay for it. Just show up and run doors with me." And that's been my focus the last, like, two years, is to get to the point of where when I go to FD I don't make a fool of myself, but also just to, like, it's fun. I'm chasing a goal- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... of trying to get better. So getting into FD, like, I don't necessarily think it's gonna, like, do anything for my career, let's say.
Yeah. But it gives me a reason and a why, and that's, like, something my business coach has really, like, really been working with me on the last however long, is they're like, "We need a goal." Right. "Right now you're drifting and you're doing all the pro-ams, you're, you're winning all these things, and you're accelerating and all that stuff, but, like, what's the goal?"
Yeah. And I'm like, "Well, I have friends that really hate FD but do it." Like, a lot. Yeah. So I'm like, "Well, maybe it's not for me." Yeah. And then I go, "Well, I don't know if people will wanna watch if I go and do that," because, you know, drifting videos aren't, like, the most popular thing ever, and [02:20:00] eventually they helped boil it down, and they're like, "Well, what does TJ want?"
And I'm like, "Well, fuck yeah, I wanna drive FD." Yeah. "But it's gonna cost me, like..." You know, just the budget to do, like, if you were to even go into pro spec, this budge- like, you could nickel and dime your way and go as cheap as possible- Yeah ... on four rounds of pro spec. But if you went into pro spec with a full, like, our budget set for pro spec's a quarter million dollars, which there's a lot of guys doing it for way less than that, but that's, like, spare s- you know, spare long block.
Mm-hmm. S- I mean, spare everything, so you were, you are 100% all in, that there's no issue. Like, you will have... Unless you write the car off, you're not done for the weekend. The only thing that's gonna lose you is your skill. Yeah. So you get into this weird, like, okay, well, that's how... And you ask, like, "You wanna do it?"
I'm like, "Well, I do and I don't." It's hard to make it work financially, and at a certain point you just go, "Finances can go out the window." Yeah. "I'm doing it because I wanna do it." Let me ask you a question. Next year, cameras are turned off, you're on a sabbatical. Mm-hmm. And you're gonna get to race. You're either gonna get to go do a [02:21:00] season of FD- Mm-hmm
or a season of GT4. Mm-hmm. What are you gonna do?
And like you don't have to worry about the content side of it, you don't have to worry about the bills. Like you, you don't, you don't have to worry about whether or not you're- So, so- You're, you're, it's like a sabbatical year. Yeah. I, I, I think there's two different answers to that, and I don't know what the answer is.
One, I feel that if I wanted, I would, I would never become the best Wheel-to-wheel driver Right, 'cause you didn't start at seven in a kart. Yeah, I didn't start when I was six. No. You're never gonna ... You can do it and have way more seat time- Mm-hmm ... and way more fun, and arguably, like, when I do it at wheel racing, you leave the day being like, "Fuck, I just drove all day.
This was awesome." Mm-hmm. Win or lose. Mm-hmm. But in drifting, it's like 30 seconds, you're out. Y- you know, Ken used to refer to drifting as the most expensive sport by corner. Yeah. He's like, "If you count the number of corners you drive and what- 100% ... you're paying to go there, it's, like, the most expensive sport."
100%, but- Other than, obviously, drag racing ... but getting a podium finish in a [02:22:00] comp is way more fulfilling than finishing- Mid-pack ... mid-pack, or even on the box, in my opinion, on a wheel-to-wheel race, because there could be some, at the end of the weekend, it's like, yeah, like, I was the fastest pole. I started in the front.
I maybe had a little bit of action here or there, or you finished three through, three, five, six, and you're like, "I was kinda just by myself." Mm. Where in drifting, it's like, if you g- if you finish on the box in pro, you fought and- Yeah, you beat out all these battles ... you took punches to the face. Yeah. It's just a completely different- Yeah
adrenaline Well, the bracket system of it gives it a different- Yeah, and I feel like It, it'd be on a more reasonable scale, like on a more like surface level, it'd be way easier to become the best drifter in the world than it would be to become the best grip to grip, you know, like F1 driver in the world.
Mm-hmm. From this current standpoint. Yeah. I think that's a pretty fair argument. No one would really argue that. Um, so like if my goal was to like I'm gonna go drive pro in something next year, if my, if my goal was like, okay, I wanna go there and like [02:23:00] actually try to finish like top five, FD would be the answer.
Mm-hmm. Not saying I think I could go into pro right now with no pro spec experience and do all eight rounds and not, have no data other than what other friends willing to share in driving any of those layouts. I would go and we would do that, but like 100% I would bet on that versus going and doing GT4, which guys haven't raced for for 25 years.
Mm-hmm. That are just gonna mop. Yeah. But it is way more fun. Like I did a bunch of WRL last year- But if it's more fun, then why wouldn't you wanna do that then? 'Cause I think you keep getting back to the bus- Because I wanna win. Right. Okay, that's fair. At the end of the day- That's fair ... I spend the amount of money that I do just for my program- Right
to win. Here's, here's a question for you. Is there anything that you don't want to win at? No. Yeah. So I'm just a very, like, competitive person, which ev- a lot of people are. Yeah, yeah. Which is fine. But like I- if I'm- So will you not do things that you're not good at? Are you one of those people? Yeah. I think a lot of people are that way, but like that is something that like I've had to get over.[02:24:00]
Yeah. But like I'm not good at bowling. I was gonna say bowling. I was gonna be like I fucking hate bowling. I won't do it. I went... I'm not good at bowling. The last ti- and I was like my wife and I did like a date night. This is something that happens when you have kids, you have to like schedule a date night.
And we went bowling. My wife's better at me in bowling. And then at the end I threw like four strikes in a row. And I was like, "You know what? I kinda like bowling." I'm- And she was mad 'cause she's like, "You normally suck at this." And I was like, "Man, I realize how motivated I am to do something when I'm good at it."
Yeah, I, I, I hyper fixate on things I find something that I love, I become really good at it- Yeah ... and then move on to the next thing. Yeah, same. That's, like, very much my personality. So you say that, but then at the same time, like, you have been doing the same thing on YouTube- True, but I've been able to some- I know you've evolved it and I know you've changed it, but you've had this world that you have continued to sort of nurture for a long time.
Yeah. Like, there's a s- you have a staying power there. Like, is that because you've ... That has kept [02:25:00] you interested enough that you've hyper fixated on that for that long? Well, I think that, I think that the deeper you go, the deeper you th- the deeper you realize you can go. Right. Like, when when I first started, like, I knew I'd get to the top, but I didn't know, like, really what that meant.
Like, I remember when I got... I remember when I was the first person to get the first corporate deal. Yeah. I got m- I signed with Meguiars in 20, I don't know, eight or nine years ago. Yeah, yeah. Whatever the math is. And at the time- Did, did RJ bring you that deal? Yeah. 'Cause he, 'cause he had the vision to understand that.
Yeah. 'Cause he r- in a,
in some way RJ is like the OJ- He, he, he j- He's like the OJ influencer- He is ... in the car mar- space. That, he absolutely is. Yeah. Yeah. Before YouTube, RJ was an influencer. That's a whole different discussion. But I remember when I, when I signed that, I mean, you know, keep in mind, rewind the cl- clock. Like, the 10 people that are, like, big and are doing this and everybody knows, we're all friends.
We're all talking. We're all, like, texting or visiting each other, and ex- sharing- Mm-hmm ... each other's information. And I remember I went to everyone, I'm [02:26:00] like, "I just signed a corporate deal." Mm-hmm. Like, a year long. Not like a... And everyone was like, "What the fuck?" Yeah. And I'm like, "Yeah." I'm like, "It's possible."
I'm like, "We're making progress." Like, I knew eventually the day would come, and I would go to SEMA every single year, like, sneak in without any credentials and make fake shit and try to, like, get sponsors. And I was like, "One day, th- it will turn. One day-" Yeah ... "people will realize that this is the move." So, like, throughout my career there's been, like, I'm like, "Oh, shit, this is possible."
Yeah. Like, "Oh, it can go here." And especially with Hunting Co. Like, one of my goals is to make Hunting Co. the largest automotive brand in the world. And now that Hoonigan has respectively stepped aside- ... it just really, like, opens up to me, Cletus, LZ, and a few others. Yeah. And it's really, really fun. Like, it's really...
Like, I'm more in love with Hunting Co. now in this last, like, 12 to 24-month period than I was you know, fi- like I'm loving more of it now, which then Street Hunter- Yeah ... I found a reason to create Street Hunter, and now [02:27:00] Street Hunter, like you were mentioning The Human Centipede thing, which I loved, but, uh, Street Hunter's its own thing.
Yeah. Like, I don't... I use it and promote it, but like I'm not... It orig- o- originally relied on me to pump everything. Yeah, yeah. But now it's its own subculture. Yeah. L- a lot of people follow it who don't even know who I am, which is, like, fucking sick. That's great. That's, that's the success moment. It's super cool.
That's the- Yeah, and- Why, why do you guys do something like this kind of thing? Yeah, and I wanted to... And then throughout the thing I'm like, "Why am I promoting everyone else's thing if I can make my own?" So that was a whole nother, like, pick and choose your battle on that. Yeah. There's a certain amount of balance you should have.
Uh, that's why I created the Wrap Shop, because I'm like, "Dude, I'm just outsourcing all this for everyone else, and everyone's just telling me how great-" Yeah ... "a promotion this is. I'm just gonna do it myself." Couple, couple things on there that I find interesting. One, um, you know, looking at... First of all, on the Hunt Co.
thing, I, this is a little side question, but I saw recently, like, you had this tattoo artist, um, do some designs for you. Neeks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Neeks, and, uh, what's that? @ifoundneeks, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's his Instagram. Um, I saw something that he [02:28:00] posted about it. Mm-hmm. And I was, like, just reading through some of the stuff, and I thought that was cool.
Um, you know, I, I actually think that tattoo artists are, like, an untapped source for graphics. We had a tattoo artist do, uh, like a graphic for a helmet for Ken once. Mm-hmm. Um, and it was just like, it was a completely differing- Mm-hmm ... like, perspective. Mm-hmm. I've had obviously graffiti artists do graphics for us.
Like, I've always worked in the, in the artist world instead of just, like, the traditional graphic artists. We've always had those, but I love doing that, 'cause like I come from graffiti. Yeah. Like, that was my, my space when I was younger. So I, I was... I saw that and I was like, "Oh, that's cool," and I liked a bunch of his designs.
Mm-hmm. And I was like, it was, and it was cool, he did this poster, it was like the before and afters. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I, and I liked, like, seeing, like, his, his vamp on it. Um, but he commented something, and I thought... I was like, I was like, "Oh, I wanna ask you this." So he said something about, like, he wanted to do this because, like, he, we need to get the culture vultures out of motor sports.
So I, I bring this up because did... Are you familiar with this? So I, I'm curious about your take on this because [02:29:00] as I told the story earlier in this podcast, which feels like seven hours ago, was me saying we were the first at Zumiez. Mm-hmm. Right? I'm really stoked to see you at Zumiez. I'm really stoked to see Adam at Zumiez.
I'm really stoked to see... I'm even stoked to see Donut at Zumiez- Mm-hmm ... even though they were, like, kind of our competitor. Yeah. I'm stoked to see them all there- Mm-hmm ... because, like, we had to, like, bushwhack in- Mm-hmm ... to get there, right? What I'm not stoked to see- Mm-hmm ... is all these brands that were already there now doing car stuff.
Mm-hmm. Right? Like, that's a weird one for me. DGK, crazy one. DGK has a closer acceptance to it because they have Kayla's, and they have do- and they have- True, but- They have, they have dabbled in it in the past. Okay. I'll, I'll let that one go. But Huf and all of these other brands. Huf is a crazy one. And by the way, I, like, I know these guys, I like their brands, but- I can't help but feel like it was so hard for us to get our foot in that door.
And then we finally do get our foot in that door, and, you know- So- ... the, and the model starts to [02:30:00] work, and it works for everyone. And like, you know, it's like we were there, and then right after us, like, Illest came in. And I remember Mark called me and said, "Hey, do you think we should go to Zumiez?" And I was like, "I want you to be at Zumiez 'cause the more of us that are there, the better it is."
Like, right now, like, we don't belong in the store, so, like, we're in our own space. Mm-hmm. Like, it'd be cool to see more and more and more and more and more, and then other brands grew up. But now it's like you look at what's coming out of... It's like now there's all these brands that were not a part of motor sports, were in a different space, and now are making that.
And I am old man on the bleachers. I've retired my brand. I'm no longer selling a, a brand. I don't really have, like, you know- Mm-hmm ... I don't have, like- Mm-hmm ... something in the fight. Mm-hmm. As someone who was there when I was told, like, "Your brand doesn't belong here"- Mm-hmm ... to now see all these other brands- Mm-hmm
doing that thing, and, like, motorsports to be one of the number one selling items at Zumiez, like, how do you feel about that? I feel- Like, do you share the same thing as Neeks, where he- I, I, I, I do, but I also can't [02:31:00] fault. So for one, let's back up. This all started, the culture vulture in my opinion started when Drive to Survive took off.
If you rewind the clock, it lines up very, very identically with Drive to Survive. Yeah, for sure. The popularity of motorsport- Yeah ... the Hollister, is it Hollister? One of, like, the weird- Whatever, yeah ... whatever made, like, a collab with, like, McLaren, and it's like, what the fuck? This- Yeah ... which is great all around for automotive culture.
And then, yeah, and then you start seeing the skateboard brands just, like, start making car stuff, which is, like, very odd. And yeah, originally, like, me and Neeks had a conversation. We were like, "Dude, these, like, they're... You go to Complex, you know, Con, and everyone's there, like, stealing what we really do- Mm-hmm
at racetracks, building cars- Yeah ... like, blood, sweat, and t- tears. Like, what we really love. Yeah, our culture is your costume. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. And we're, you know, there's one side where it's like, okay, like, we're gonna, we're gonna blow them out the water. Mm-hmm. We're gonna get in the door. We're gonna show, we're gonna show the, we're gonna [02:32:00] show Zumiez or whomever and show their audience that, like, we're the real shit.
Mm-hmm. And we'll show it through our designs, and if they ever get to our Instagram, they'll see the actual culture- Yeah ... and you'll win them over game over. But at the same time too, they're just trying to adapt to what's selling. Of course. So I can't blame them for that. And how much of my childhood was based off of looking at all of them- Mm-hmm
taking hard inspiration and then recreating my own version of that? Because art is just imitation over and over again. Yep. Like, we can all acknowledge that. So, like, I don't, like, have this, like, vengeance, but I am like, damn, they're culture vulturing us? What an awesome opportunity to- Yeah ... go in and sweep.
And then eventually it will be oversaturated and burn out, and we'll still live there. We'll coexist, and that's fine. But yeah, when you go into, like, not even Zumiez, but, like, Tilly's and PacSun, there's, like, some brands I've never heard before that just have, like, random skyline graphics that are, like- terrible and, [02:33:00] like, incorrect, and I'm just like, "What is going on?"
Yeah. Like, why would they not- I think- ... take an actual brand that actually is real- Yeah ... in the space to that regard of culture? I think, one, you're always gonna have that whenever anything trends. I think the part that bothers me is when I see these collabs happening between, like, companies in our space with companies outside of our space instead of it being in.
Can you give an example? Like, the TRD Huff one is a good one for me. It's a wild one. Like, it's a wild one, and like, I, I mean, I think you... I think, like, I, I loved what Keith Hufnagel did. Like, I, I, I think the brand was super cool. I mean, they built an entire brand. It was a skate brand that made a, a sock with a weed leaf on it that really exploded them.
But like, like, so whatever. It is what it is. But, like, it's weird to me that that wasn't a relationship done with you or done with someone else. S- And it's like, it, it's like you're... It just seems like a really odd collab space [02:34:00] when there are other brands in automotive that could have done that collab. I agree, and I look at it like this I would probably bet with certainty that our social engagement just j- not even on my just Hunt & Co.
Mm-hmm. Is outperforming and is more active and better than Huf. I'd probably- Yeah, I mean, it's- Yeah, right? Yeah. Pretty, pretty safe bet. I don't know- Skate brands- Yeah ... skate brands aren't really crushing anymore. I'm just- Yeah ... assuming and validating that you agree with me. Yeah. But I would argue that there's more sales throughout Huf daily- For sure
from door to door and online- 'Cause that's their hun- ... than Hunt & Co. just because- That's their primary business ... it's fucking everywhere. So, like, when I, like, look at it, like, there's a certain degree that's like, dude, like, Toyota, like, wake up. Yeah. Like, you wanna do this. You- you're sponsoring these people, but, like, there's a completely different demographic that you're missing that they could work with.
Um, but I just think that they just go towards the person who's in charge doesn't really understand the culture. They're looking at someone with a brand- Yeah ... that's in skate shop that hits this age demographic and preference, and then they just blindly do [02:35:00] it. Yeah. And I don't think it's necessarily about, like, it being culturally, like, accurate.
I think it's just them being like, "Well, the numbers line up. They're g- they have enough of a spread globally to where it makes sense." Yeah. "Screw it." But yeah, it makes me bang my head on the table. Yeah. And it's like, do you have people, I'm not gonna pick Honor myself here, but you have people like LZ, you got people like Cletus, which Cletus is now, like, in- now it's NASCAR's opening a lot more doors- Mm-hmm
for more, like, larger corporate. But it's like, who's not, who's not doing their job? Or the person who is in that seat is seeing people like myself and others- Yeah ... like a liability l- because there's no one to reel them in if something... Or, like, what if you fully induce somebody, and then tomorrow I go get a DUI and kill a cat- Of course.
Of course ... in the making, and they're like, "It's all out the window." It's all... Yeah. So I try to view it- There, there's pieces of that ... heavily on the other side. But yeah, 100% of the time I'm like, you know, this is a whole nother different side discussion is, like, why would an OE not sponsor any individual YouTuber that's crushing it?
[02:36:00] Because every single YouTuber that's crushing it would love an OE partner deal. It's- May- you could argue both ways, 'cause then, you know, maybe you'd have to commit to just doing that brand and that build, which, like, is a fully different other question. But, like- There's just so much opportunity out there that I don't feel the OEs are the last one to cave When was the last time you had an OE meeting?
Never. Oh. Um- Ever ... if you sit in one of them, you'll understand why. It, it- Very old people, I'm assuming, trying to call the shots It, it's, and it's not just on the age side of it, it's just, like, th- there's a good chance they don't even know who you are- Oh, tha- 1,000% ... because, like- 1,000% ... they're not enthusiasts.
1,000%. Like, like, there's some guys who are. Shout out to guys like Tim Kuniskis and Jim Farley, but you're not meeting with those guys. Mm-hmm. You're not meeting with the heads. Mm-hmm. You're meeting with a mid-level, lower level person who, like, they- Mm-hmm ... they're in the business, and they may go work at Colgate next.
Mm-hmm. Right? Like, they're- Yeah ... not, like, automotive people always. And, and- And sometimes there are, and you can see [02:37:00] those brands are doing cool things. And you see this within the other, like, you know, I have a large array of quarter- Yeah ... brands that I work with, whom have all, you know, it's been five years and growing- Yeah
with every single one. I don't really hop around too much. And the people- Which is good long-term ... which is great ... is, long-term is the relationship that works. 100%. Um, and there's- shocked at how, and you know this, that there's, like, maybe one car guy in each brand. Mm-hmm. So I can imagine on the OE side, it's, you know, obviously a much larger net worth of a company than- Right
you know, the oils and the fuels and- Yep ... the tires and X, Y, and Z. Um, but yeah, it, it, it just blows my mind on there's just such smarter ways, and I always am wondering why. And I'm always like, "They probably just don't know." Or the people that they, that they do pick, they're just like, "Oh yeah, that, that works," but there's just so much more.
If I was in that seat, I'd be just choosing a, a much different selection of people. [02:38:00] Yeah, I think, one- And I think we're getting there, but just not yet. I, I think there's two things. I think one is we're getting there. Um, I was there with the fight with Ken Block, and I mean, there were moments where we would be having conversations where they're like, "Well, we sponsor...
Like, like our drivers need to be champions or winners." Mm-hmm. And you're like, "Yeah, the guy who won the race last week, like no one knows who he is." Mm-hmm. Right? And it's like, so we were in the early conversations of that shift, right? Mm-hmm. Of like, there's certain protocols that are written for them where it's like the only thing is winning.
Winning championships is everything. 100%. That's not actually true when it comes to the purpose of advertising. Advertising is eyeballs. People don't always buy what wins. Sometimes people just buy what they know, right? So it's like that was a big shift, and I think you're start- I mean, you're seeing that fight with Cletus in NASCAR.
Like, people don't think he deserves to be there, and then there's other people who are like, "Well, even if he doesn't deserve to be here, for whatever reason, he's, he's good for the sport." [02:39:00] Mm-hmm. Right? And then there's the people who are like, "Yeah, he damn well doesn't deserve to be there," and like you have the, the, that group.
Um, you know, a lot of it is like there's just a traditional model that's still there, and they don't know how to move that out of the way. I, I think that, I think in five years from now, um, I think it'll be really hard for race car drivers to find sponsorships. I think that that's gonna flip. I think it already is.
I think right now if you're a race car driver and you can't also be a content creator, like you're really struggling. Like the days of I'm just really, really good at what I do- I agree ... if you don't have a con- 'cause I think at the same time I could have someone sitting across from me who is one of the fastest race car drivers in the world but never, ever wants to talk to camera, doesn't even wanna do this podcast, and they're sitting there being like, "I don't understand where my world is anymore.
So I think that we're in this in-between shift, and right now the middle is the race car driver who can also make content. Mm. Levan Gines, right? Yeah. Like, like [02:40:00] that works well for people. We may continue to shift, and this could be a really bad day for motorsports, where actually they realize, "You know what?
We don't actually even need to sponsor racing. We just need to sponsor people who are gonna go do cool stuff with our cars." Because at the end of the day, Gymkhana was w- the reason people gave Ken money. It wasn't to go race in the woods. It was, it was Gymkhana. No one was watching us race in the woods, especially not here in America, right?
Like WRC may be a little bit different, but I mean, the, my joke, I've said it a thousand times, apologize to everyone on the pod, but I'll say it to you, is that we ran an extremely profitable company at Hoonigan. Ken decided to spend that all on rally racing, though. And it's like there's a reality to that.
Like if we didn't go racing rally, we would've made a lot of money. We, we made these things that made people sponsor him, but he had that same thing where it's like they, they wanted to sponsor us because of Gymkhana, but the funding was coming from motorsport. Mm-hmm. You gotta choose where to [02:41:00] spend it.
Eventually, the funding, there will be fun- more and more funding for just big, cool ideas because I do think people realize, like that's valuable and that has worth. So I think that that's, that's like one side of it. I think the other part of it is you've got like, um... I, I don't think either of us realize how big the space is.
Like I, I, like I think that we are so over... Like today I was like, "Oh, do you know Jason Camisa?" And you're like, "No." That is someone who is like ever present in my feed, but they're not in your feed. Mm. Right? Mm-hmm. He does big view videos on YouTube. Like he's a com- What does he, what does he do? He does like more explainer stuff and car reviews.
He's like a traditional car journalist that like made the jump over. He was- Mm. You know, I, I, I think he worked at MotorTrend for a while. I forget where, I think he was at Automobile for a while. I mean, I know him from like when... I mean, he's a bit older than me. Um, but he now has like the most successful show on Hagerty- Mm
right? And does really well. The other day someone said, um, "Hey, [02:42:00] uh, you should have Tom Refurb on the show. Do you know who he is?" I never heard of him. Never heard his name before, and I'm like, "Oh, okay." And then I go look him up, and then the kid's got a million plus subscribers. He's crushing content. Like, you said it before, when this started, we all knew each other.
Mm-hmm. You, well- Yeah ... well, while maybe you and I didn't talk a lot, I talked with LZ. Uh-huh. You talked to Hert. Uh-huh. Like, we were all interconnected. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was, like, 20 of us who were- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah ... doing it, right? And even if I, and if I, and it wasn't like if I did see you, we sat down and we're like, we knew exactly who each other were.
Yeah, yeah. The space is so big now- It is ... that people hide. Yeah. Like, people come out of nowhere. I mean, remember, like, when, um, uh, like, Westen Champlin came out? I was gonna say when Whistlin came out or came out and just shot. Like, like, or Whistlin, like, like, it was like all of a sudden you're like, "Whoa."
Yeah. "How does this guy have two million followers?" Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, you think he's an overnight success, but the reality is it's like- He's been doing it for a long time ... it's like, it is just so saturated. Yeah. And, and, and I'm happy 'cause I'm... This is the first question I asked that we never you [02:43:00] never answered.
Which is as somebody who i- is one of the pioneers- Uh-huh ... in the build side of YouTube. Mm. There's a lot of different pieces of YouTube. Mm. Sure. But the build side of YouTube, like, h- how do you feel about the current saturation? Like, do you see it? Like, are you even aware of, like, just that there's literally, like, thousands and thousands of people uploading build content today, right?
And it's super- Yep. It, like, if you just like one type of car, there's a guy who just make- Mm-hmm ... makes that thing for you. Does that feel like it's made the space harder for you? Does it change? Like, you're obviously doing well, but, like, do you think about that at all? Like- Yeah, I mean, it's definitely made the space harder.
Mm-hmm. Um, I mean, there's one, like, thing we recently started doing is, like, building a whole entire car in one episode, and it's, like, a clear, like, I don't wanna say, like, indication of power, but it's like- Mm-hmm ... if you're starting out it's, like, good luck. Mm-hmm. [02:44:00] Um- I mean, but that's also the TV model. Yeah.
Uh, a- 'Cause, like, TV shows need a car to be built in one episode. 1,000%. Yeah. Um, except we're probably doing more. I mean- Of course ... I don't know. We're, we're doing, like- Yeah ... you know, we'll do some of our, some of our, I mean, we think we've made, like, 10 or 12 of them. Um, and we have, like, seven right now in the, in the queue to still shoot- Yeah
and film. We're waiting for parts, but they're, like, 30 to $40,000 in parts a car. Mm. And we'll give ourselves five days to shoot it. And they all- Is it wor- is it worth it for you? Yeah, they ex- They'll, they'll, they crush. Oh, yeah. So it makes, it's... 'Cause it's, it used to be like, "Oh, I could string this out over three weeks- So I still-
or a month." I still do do that. I mean, like, my model isn't necessarily... I mean, and, like, I think everyone's like, "Oh, I want my videos to do as well as possible." Yes. But, like- I don't... It's always great to get more views. Mm-hmm. But that's not my largest revenue stream anymore. I think I've [02:45:00] done a really good job of diversifying where and how it comes in.
Mm-hmm. Which is important. And YouTube i- helps pull levers, but it doesn't rely. Like, obviously it's the backbone, let's say. Yeah. Um- It's also the top of the funnel for your businesses. It, yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, but I, y- you know, like Hunt & Co. is really my, is like my big, big, big focus. Mm-hmm. I see a much more larger future with Hunt & Co.,
um, than anything else. Maybe Street Hunter, I mean, that's a different discussion, but I see a much larger future with that- Okay ... for what we're building, um, and where we're trying to go. But, you know, it's, on the term of YouTube, there are some things that I'll string out that just fit in my schedule, and then sometimes I'm like, "This doesn't fit in the schedule.
We're just gonna throw in all in one episode, and it's gonna be a banger." Mm-hmm. And it will do 10 times the views, and it will be great. [02:46:00] Um, and all the partners are happy because they just get more viewership and their things, and it's this awesome cohesive system. But, like, right now my main focus is creating time to race.
Mm-hmm. And that's where it goes down to, it's like, well, are you gonna do it? I'm like, well, I n- I'm still, like, really figuring out the financials, 'cause it's, like, just figuring out, okay, how much are you... You're not getting anything back on it. Mm. We're not really getting too much other funding. Uh, but at the same time too, like, I'm getting bored to a certain degree.
Mm-hmm. And, like, I wanna look forward to doing that, and it gives me something to chase. Without something to chase, it's like what am I doing? Mm-hmm. And so that's why I have, like, the GT3 projects I h- I keep my eyes on that I really wanna do. You know, have a couple, like, background goals of cars that, you know, we're gonna do and I've wanted to do.
But I wanna have something to go after. Yeah. And fail at, then to try again. And drifting is something that, like, I'm most passionate about, and we have all the resources and tools and the program. We just have to commit the time to doing it. And then going there and winning or losing isn't necessarily [02:47:00] the No, doing it- Just doing it is-
is part, is, should be the win for you ... is like, is the win. Yeah. Is just a start. And also too, like, there's a lot to be said at in-person activations that you could probably, like, really validate through stuff with Hoonigan. So like that's also like a really big selling point- Mm ... for Hunt & Co. Like, there's a lot of like, you know, domino actions- Mm-hmm
that can have with, like, taking more on the road and... I will, I will tell you that, uh, when I was losing steam in wanting to do the company, and, like, things just felt really exhausting, doing a Burnyard brought it all back. Mm-hmm. 'Cause you're like, yo, there's 6,000 people- Mm-hmm ... here in a small-ass area. It feels like a punk rock show.
Yeah. And people are alive. Yeah. And you're like, "This is why we do this." Like, I think that we did, like, six of them before, six or seven of them every month, we doing them at Irwindale right before the pandemic hit, and, like, it breathed, like, a new life into Hoonigan. 100%. Like, I always think, like, like if- back to the, like, we sell the company, [02:48:00] Ken Pass, I think the biggest thing that shifted Hoonigan was COVID because, like, we were r- the momentum was insane.
Yeah. The momentum was insane, and then all of a sudden we're, like, in our house doing a live stream. Yeah. Like, it just- Yeah ... changed so much. Yeah. Um, and I think because we were a bigger company, like, we had to pay more attention to it 'cause there was 40 of us. It wasn't like, oh, three of us can go to the shop and just film this.
It was like, it was, it was a lot more different. Like, that was... It was the first momentum stopper that we had ever had. At that point it was just like boom, boom- Yeah ... boom, boom, boom. It just kept coming, and then all of a sudden it was like, whoa. Yeah. Like, that really felt like things slowed down, and I don't think we ever really picked up again.
And not that it was COVID, but it was just like we were on fire, and then it all just stopped. I also think, too, for a creator standpoint, like, it really also depends on what you're trying to do. Yeah. Like, if I think the best everlasting plan and model is to, like, sell yourself, not sell the things that you're doing.
Mm-hmm. Like, everyone that always asks, "I should do this, I should do this. I, I... How do you think I should do this?" I'm like, "Listen, the only thing that you have that I don't or any other channel already [02:49:00] doesn't have is you." You. Yeah. Exactly, and if you can't, like, build it off of you, and you're building it off of, like, buying things and th- Mm-hmm
you know, using financials, like, you're gonna have a harder time later down the line- Mm-hmm ... when you're trying to convert because everyone's gonna start a merch brand, everyone's gonna start- Yeah ... doing all those things, and you're gonna be able to actually convert much better if it's based off of your personality and your relationship with the audience rather than- Yeah
what you're doing. So it really depends. It's 40 times harder today. I think there's no doubting that, but there's also different avenues. Like, In- there's just Instagram content creators and TikTok and all these things. But, like, my mindset isn't even really so much around- Content making anymore as it's more like just focusing on racing- Mm-hmm
and driving. I mean, that's like all- So that's the big move for you now. Like, that's the- I don't know if it's the big move. It, it's, it's just- When I say move, I say it's the next chapter ... may- maybe. May- Yeah ... uh, right now, I mean, we're practicing. I'm not even filming. Mm-hmm. Like, the [02:50:00] whole entire operation and, and team- That sounds, sounds amazing.
We're not filming. Yeah. Like, yeah, we're... YouTube film stuff by day, but I'm kinda... I g- It's funny when you reference Ken's just taking all the profits and dumping it into racing. I mean, the last I checked, I mean, it was a lot. A lot, a lot, a lot, a lot- Yeah ... a lot of money that, like, beyond just buying and building the car- Yeah
in spares, and track rentals- Yep ... and flights, and hotels, and food, and paying, and, you know. Um, so like, I don't know if it's the next thing. I'm just like, man, I grew up competing- Yeah ... in sports. That was my life. And now, for the first time, after 15 years of building this ecosystem that, like, allows me to wake up every day and be like, "Hmm, what do I wanna do today?"
That's awesome. Do I wanna not go in and just golf 36 holes, 18, 18, and fly to wherever next weekend, and go and hang out, and then come back and do this? And then I got a grid life, and then I got an event, then I got a signing, then we [02:51:00] gotta do the Zoomies launch, we gotta... I can just be like, "I'm gonna do what the fuck I wanna do."
Yeah. Right now, I'm just like- I wanna go to-- I wanna just mop the fucking floor in drifting because I have this, like, weird mindset where, like, you can almost buy skill in motorsport, which, like, really ir- irritates a lot of people when I say that. But, like, to a degree, you can buy... There's a certain level where you can buy skill.
Mm-hmm. And then there's a certain point where it's like, okay, everyone has the same amount of money to get you that skill, then it's more hats off. That's why I've won so hard. Exactly. But, like, in drifting, I believe there's a level of skill you can buy. Mm-hmm. If you can afford the car, like, if you have the same person that's been drifting for 30 days, and 30 days they've been in the same exact car, then you give one guy a pro car, give him 10 minutes to get used to it, and then give him a stock, and then give the other guy the s- the stock Z they've been practicing in.
Mm-hmm. You know, so that's where, like, my, my mindset comes from on that. And it's like right now we're buying a lot of skill. I've bought the last, like, two and a half, three years, really five years, like, I've been buying track time. Mm-hmm. Buying, "Hey, Odie-" Yeah "... you wanna come meet me down at the [02:52:00] track and just run doors with me?"
Yeah. And it's buying our skill points a lot. It's like a video game. Yeah. It's like when Grant Thaw was like, "Don't put all my money in skill." Yeah. I'm having a lot of fun doing it and progressing, and now I'm like, all right, like, it's time to kinda go and show it. Right. I'm like, can, can we... We've played pretend race team.
We've won all these things that we can do here before just going to pro, and, you know, FD's been knocking on our door like, "Are you coming or not?" Mm-hmm. And I'm like, "I don't know. It's gonna cost a lot of money, and no one's gonna help pay for it. We just gonna have to fund it." So I'm, like, just deciding if I'm ready just to, like, write off that amount of money.
See it, do that. So I don't know. I don't know if it's my next big move, but it's something that I'm like, "Mm, this is really exciting," and gives me a goal, which is really fun. But it looks like you're still having fun. I love what I do. Was there ever a point where you didn't? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So that's good that you're back to where you love doing it.
Yeah. I mean, that, and that's been a lot of therapy. Yeah. That's what I figured as much. Yeah. And I was just like, man, like, this just isn't [02:53:00] fun. I'm taking work home, like, mentally rather than, like, you know, whether it's just- Not feeling present in your regular life ... not feeling present. I'm gone all the time.
Right. You're sitting in a room with your, your other friends- Other- ... and all you're thinking about is, like, that upload or this meeting or whatever. That or, like, this video didn't do well, or I'm trying to plan- A 10 out of 10 on YouTube. Yeah. I wanna see how the Hunco drop did and, um, there was a certain level where I had to get myself that it's like, um- I'm still loved by my close circle with or without anything.
Yeah. And that was, like, a really hard thing for me to grab my, get my head around. Yeah. If I didn't have people, if I didn't, if I'm not, you know, coming up here to film- Yeah ... this podcast and, like, five people didn't honk when they saw the Aston and waved, like- Right ... I'm still just as valuable with or without that.
Yeah. And that was a hard thing for me to get my head around. But you've, you've also built a, you've built a transferable audience, right? Like, you built an audience that likes you for [02:54:00] what you do. I'd hope so, yeah. And even when you change things, they may not all come- Yeah ... because there's some that may be there for a particular thing that you do.
Yeah. And they're like, "Oh, I'm only here for builds. You're not doing builds anymore. That's it. I'm only here for the GT3 thing." Yeah. But, like, you'll always keep a certain piece that, that moves with you. Yeah. You know? Yeah, for sure. And that's, you know, and I just love to help people. I love, like, my biggest, like, mantra that I was trying to, like, do throughout this whole entire journey was, like, I'm gonna get as far as I can to the top, and I'm gonna show you guys every single chess move.
Yeah. I would do agree I've almost, like, shared too much transparency within personal life and things of that nature. Yep. But I've, like, I love when I do ... When I go and do meet and greets, I'm standing in line for eight hours, and every single person comes to me with, like, their big inst- existential life question.
Right, right. And I love it. Yeah. And I'm so quickly able to, like, strip down all their reasons and be like, "Here's the a- h- here's the question. You're not, you're not, you're not, you're not asking correctly." Yep. "Here's the answer. If you don't have the answer, that's when you figure out, then come back to me."
Like, I'm so easy to, like, to [02:55:00] strip out all the bullshit, be like, "Here's what you need to hear." It's- I love being able to help everybody. Yeah. It's cool. I, I think that there's, like, you know, a, a certain valuable piece there, and I sort of stayed away from that initially. Like, I wanted to just be like, "Oh, this is what I do.
I'll stay in this lane. This is my lane." Um, it's one of the reasons why I don't really mind that we barely talked about cars today. There's an audience that'll enjoy this. Um, but because my own, like, mental health and everything, you know, after Hoonigan, after Ken's death and everything became a thing I had to deal with.
Like, it wasn't- Mm-hmm ... it wasn't something I couldn't not deal with anymore, right? Mm-hmm. I've been more open talking about that, and it's interesting because we can have, like, a great episode and have all these great comments and whatever. And, like, I always will get feedback, and there will always be people who DM me who will be like, you know, "This, you shouldn't have picked this car because of this," or, "Oh, I totally agree with you here," on, like, just superficial stuff.
Mm-hmm. Any time that I mention something [02:56:00] around, um, you know, struggling with ADHD and how difficult it's been and how being undiagnosed for 40-some odd years and, and how it's, like, a lot different than, like, what people think it is- Mm-hmm ... and, like, or even what the internet says it is and, and the ups and downs of it, that's when I get, like, the long paragraph text in DMs.
Like, "Dude, this meant so much." And it's like I realize that there's a part of the audience that doesn't suffer from that, doesn't deal with it- Yeah ... and probably doesn't wanna hear it. Yeah. But, like, man, that, the few that do, that perk up, you're like, "All right, it's worth it." It's like it's valuable for them to, like, hear that stuff.
So I think sometimes y- while you may feel like you overshare and there's, like, this weird world of, like, parasocial relationships with people when, and how they feel like they know you through that, like, I don't know, man. The few times that, like, it, it matters to somebody, like, I think it has, like, a pretty positive- No, it- It has a pr- it has a pretty positive effect.
It definitely outweighs whatever negative. And n- not that there's... The only negative is just, like, you know, kind of feeling you don't have any privacy. Yeah. You know? It's like a, a big r- like me and Sabrina, like, aren't doing this big [02:57:00] wedding. We're not doing... We're just, like, me and her, courthouse- Yeah
knocking it out. I just don't want the world... I, like, I've shared, I, I, like, I... There, there's a certain aspect to them, like I've shared enough- Yeah ... with the world. I don't... I just want something- And you need that ... for me. You need, like, that safe place- Yeah, so like, I- ... but like you don't, you don't have that ... but I, I love, you know, sharing, you know, all of, like, my, like, issues and things that I've gotten around or how have I improved it to help others.
Like, that's like, I lo- if someone asks me for help, I'll sit there and talk for an hour. They have to stop me- Yeah ... 'cause I'll just like, "What else? Like, what else you got? Like, come on. Like, let, let me help you, like, break this down. Like, I, I can help you tackle this." But, um, yeah, and, and I think that's the key to creating a successful channel today is, like, sell yourself, not what you can buy.
Yeah. Otherwise, you know, the next rich guy's gonna come in- And just out-buy you ... the Hamilton collection's coming back- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... or Ron's Supercar- Yeah ... or DDE or, uh, Manny Khoshbin's [02:58:00] gonna buy a more expensive Bugatti than you, and it, it, and you, you end up just, like, getting in this rat- it's just- Yeah
focus on you, and when those things come in- Yeah ... cool, but- Or focus on the things that are your skill. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Like, for me, it's like I like telling stories. Just a better story told is, is what's valuable for me, right? Like, that's, that's your skill set- Mm-hmm ... versus the things you own. Mm-hmm. Right?
All right, so I think we have now hit probably what is the longest pod. Yeah, we got the thumbs up, so you just set the record. Record-setting, nice work. Congratulations. I won. You won, which I know- ... you came here to win, so you now can go home triumphantly in traffic- Thank you ... that you've won. Um- My phone is blowing...
I've probably got like 80 texts. Yeah. I don't even... I'm scared to look at it. Okay. Um, I, I want, well, I'm gonna hit you with one last question, but, but, but since you turned it around on me and you brought a lot of questions to me today, do you have any final questions that you need answered that I can answer in, like, under a few minutes?
Have you got anything? Otherwise, I'll go into my last question. Yeah, I do. How much money are you guys getting for [02:59:00] each Gymkhana? Just bleep- That's what I want ... just bleep this. That's what, that's what I wanna know. I'll tell you that off-camera. Okay. I'll tell you that off-camera. That's, that's what I really wanna know, but okay, no, I'm ready for your question.
Okay. All right. So, um, obviously the racing thing's what you wanna do next, right? Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. That's something it, right? Um, I always kinda like to do this one when I, when I, whenever somebody's on who we have more of a business conversation, I always like to flip the, the end one of like, okay, so cool, so, so if we were to, if you and I were to go do a project together- Mm
what would you wanna do? Like, project meaning what? Whatever. Like- I wanna make my own Gymkhana with you directing it. There you go. I've wanted to do that for a long time. I've thought about pitching it, not with you, but, like, I've, I've- Well, I would, I would be insulted if you didn't ask me. No, no, no. I... No, well, this is, like, y- years ago, but there's been so many times where I'm like I've watched Gymkhana, and I've watched other people, like, try to do it- Mm-hmm
and I'm like I've, like, looked, I've, like, literally looked at shutting down certain streets. I've looked at sh- buying out, like, a parking [03:00:00] garage for a night Can I tell you that I have an entire scout of San Diego that I did, but San Diego didn't give us the rights to u- They, they, they said no, and we went to Australia instead.
So w- I've, I've already got a bunch of really good stuff figured out, so yeah. Like locations and stuff? Yeah, yeah, like really cool, unique lo- 'cause, like, you need a good i- a good base of, like, unique locations that you just can't find that elsewhere. How much- And then you need good driving. All right, all right
how much do you need for budget? We'll, we'll get to that after. Well, but- We're gonna get to that after we wrap ... I could g- I, I, I- Let's talk ... I, like, literally went down, like, I got people that are willing to spend some chad. Yeah, I, and I, I also have people who will fund something like that, so we can figure it out.
Let's talk. I don't know if you're being serious, but- I'm, I'm not ... I wanna, I wanna tell my team. I wanna do one of these vide- I might not be as good as, as Ken did, but it's just so- And that may be, that may be your road into an automaker. All right, well thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Thank you for coming on.
Thanks for, uh, thanks for the questions. Thanks for the answers. This was really enjoyable. [03:01:00] We should definitely try to spend more time hanging out considering that we now realize we were only about 30 minutes apart from each other at my other home, so yeah. Big flex. Big flex. My, my other home. Farm flex.
My other home. Farm flex. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Thanks, dude. Thank you.
Mailbox is full, full, full, full. The mailbox is f- f- f- f- full. The mailbox is f- f- f- f- f- f- full and cannot accept any messages at this time. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye Of all the sunglass companies out there, you might ask, why Heat Wave? Aside from them being friends of mine, they just make great shades.
Awesome styles, cool collabs, smart tech. They even have extra large sizes for big heads like me. And for those of you wearing this on the job, they make ANSI Z87 spec safety glasses, too. But what really attracts me to Heat Wave is that they are physically a part of our culture. You will find them everywhere from King of the Hammers [03:02:00] to Formula Drift.
You'll see everyone wearing Heat Waves at your local track day event. Damn, you might even turn laps with the co-founder, Justin, because they're one of us. So one more reason to choose Heat Wave Visual, to fix your face. I'm a tool dork. My obsession might even dwarf my addiction to cars. I love collecting unique and specialty tools, which is how I initially fell in love with Wera.
First off, they just make aesthetically pleasing tools. They feel good in your hand, they have a great finish, their sizes are universally color-coded, and they are super strong. In two decades, I've never broken a tool from Wera. I wish I could say the same about my other tools. But the thing I like the most about Wera is that they create clever solutions for your wrenching woes, because you need overengineered tools to work on today's overengineered cars.
So if you're ready to step up your tool game, whether it's the Zyklop ratchet or the Joker wrenches, find them at weratools.com. All anyone wants to talk about nowadays is how great '90s car culture was, but what [03:03:00] everyone forgets is how bad our slammed cars rode on crappy lowering springs. At the time, that's all my wallet could muster.
But when I finally did step up and get some proper coilovers, I went for KWs and never looked back. I've been running their stuff for over two decades now, in everything from my 911 to my RS2. I even have a custom set in my Land Rover Discovery. And yes, that bloody thing does finally run. Anyway, because of my long history with them, I am very excited to announce KW as the newest partner in this whole podcast syndicate thing I'm building.
Anyway, check them out, kwsuspensions.com.